Welcome to Dating Log, the podcast that records the ups and downs of dating in your 30s and beyond.
I'm your host Harry Darke. I'm the producer for Dating Log and today I'm coming out from
behind the screens to turn the tables on your regular host Wyndham. This is the first of some
bonus content we're releasing while we work away on season two of Dating Log. 12 brand new episodes
coming at you from spring this year. Who really is Wyndham? What's going on in her dating life?
Is she single? Is she even dating? Has hosting this podcast altered her outlook in any way?
All will be revealed in this frank, open and honest conversation between two friends
about this side of her life. Let's learn more from the show's regular host.
My name is Wyndham. I am 34 years old. I live in Amsterdam and I'm actually currently on an
dating hiatus because I think winter dating is the off season for dating and I'm not interested in
hibernating with someone for the winter. So is the approach that you've stopped dating completely
through the winter? That is my approach. Yes. But why? Yeah, so a few things. I was active on the apps
for, let's say, I needed to find active. Let's say I had the apps open and I was updating my
profiles and trying different things for a solid year and a half. And I tried different apps.
I went on lots of first dates, a few second dates, fewer third dates, made some nice connections.
I think I'm still in touch with one person who I met on the apps originally. And what I've noticed,
because this is not my first round on dating apps, I also was on the dating apps
years ago before my last relationship and also in my mid-20s. And what I noticed is that when you
reach this period between fall and winter, when it starts getting dark and cold, people get a little
bit desperate. They really want to meet you now and they want to see you again immediately. And
that is like a winter buddy, which is just something I'm not interested in doing. Yeah,
so already, I mean, let's say the end of last summer, I was kind of getting a bit tired and
worn out. I tried to get on hinge because a lot of our guests have been on hinge. Hinge, is it hinge?
I think it was hinge. And I tried to get on that because people were like, oh, this is a bit more
involved or serious. And they just started feeling like work. And on top of that, it was summer and
I was out and about and I was having flirts and meeting people and having fun. And I thought,
fuck it, I am done for now. Like, I'm taking a break. Fall is coming, which means winter is coming.
I'm probably going to leave anyways and travel. And I'm just not interested. Yeah, on top of that,
I think I came to realize by doing the podcast that I wasn't actually interested in getting into
a relationship. I was interested in dating. And a lot of the people on the apps are interested
in getting into relationships. So that's the whole story. Is it fair to say that you had
app fatigue? I think app fatigue is a great way to put it. And I already had a timer on my phone,
a limit of 15 minutes per day. And that was more than enough some days, you know, you get on,
you swipe a few times and you're like, yeah, fuck this, I'm tired. It's funny because it's the opposite
of what a lot of people come into the fall period thinking is that being lonely through
Christmas and New Year sucks. And so a lot of people want to go out and meet them,
but you're taking the opposite end of that. That's correct. I would rather be having fun
by myself than getting into a relationship or of any kind or just going on multiple dates with
someone because yeah, because of their needs or I'm putting myself first, that's what I'm doing.
I'm not interested in getting into something for the sake of getting into something. I would rather
sit alone on New Year's than be out on a shitty date. Okay, so then let's say, let's go back to
summer wind then, like dating wind. Wind in the wild. Wind in the wild, you know, maybe a bit more
active from a dating perspective. What apps were you using at the time and why? Yeah, so the majority
of my success and I would consider that getting off the app and dating in real life has come from
field and breeze. And these are two very different apps. So fields is an app that has made the mainstream
at this point. But let's say when did it start seven years ago or so? It was more or less an app for
people who wanted to explore different kinds of relationships. So non-monogamous relationships,
open relationships, swingers, threesomes. And there's also a pretty big queer community out there.
So men and women, it's not exclusively one or the other. Men, women, ex, all of all inclusive
everything. And what I liked about that app is because it was targeting a different audience.
I found the people to be more interesting and more unique and also more willing to meet up or get off
the app a bit quicker. So I did have a number of dates through fields. I mean, there were dates
that the intention was just to kind of meet up and see if there was a vibe and hook up. And then
there were a couple people who I met and, you know, we did have a nice vibe and didn't sleep
together at first, but then, you know, went on the second and third dates. And that was
pretty nice. I've also dated couples through fields, which is fun now and then. It's a different flavor.
But last, like, I think the beginning of last summer, it did make kind of mainstream media here.
And then it, you know, suddenly it's Google hits were way up and there were so many people on the
app and it almost became flooded with people wanting to try out new things and explore. And I
was like, fuck this, like, I'm, it's too much. It's overflowing. Yeah, it just became flooded with
not the kind of people who I wanted to meet. So that one I kind of put on pause. And that's a
great thing you can do there is deactivate your profile so you can keep it, but like deactivate
it and just hide yourself. Breeze, however, I think is a genius dating app created by Dutchies.
And if you're a Dutch, you will understand why when I explained to you how it works. So
Breeze is an app that more or less promises to get people on first dates. And what happens with
Breeze is you make your profile, you set your preferences, and then there are two times a day
where it gives you at 7am and 7pm, you get seven profiles to swipe through and you can swipe back
and forth, you can look at them. And at the bottom, there are some variables that basically say,
if you go on a date or if you both say yes, the date will take place in city, you will either,
it's the options are, you know, go for drinks or go for a walk. And then you both speak and then
the languages that you have in common, which I think is pretty cool and is not something that
the other dating apps have. So first of all, your choices are limited. And there were many days where
I was not interested in anyone on the app. And then when you do say yes, and the other person says yes,
the app is like, Hey, you've got a match, please fill out your availability for the next two weeks.
And then you pick the days and times you're available. Once there's something in common
with the other person, the app says, Great, you're both available on this day at this time.
Please put down your deposits. And then you put down a deposit for the app, which for a while was
about seven, seven euros, 50 cents, something like that. It's gone up. And then the app says, Thank you.
We'll let you know where your date is 24 hours before it happens. So 24 hours before your date,
the app says you're going to this location. And only two hours before the date, a chat box opens up.
And it's meant for any last minute changes, cancellations, I'm running late, could we do this,
blah, blah, blah. And then when you get to the date, so it's kind of like a blind date in a way,
because you've only seen a profile with a few things about this person, you haven't chatted,
you show up and you have to check in at the bar, because the bar is also reporting to the app,
whether you showed up or not. And if you're like a no show, or you cancel or something,
the app will kick you off. And the type of people on breeze were with different sort of profiles
from that on field? Definitely. I, from breeze, it felt like people were really interested in
going on dates. They didn't want to talk endlessly. They didn't want to send unsolicited picks.
It wasn't necessarily just for hookups. It was people who wanted to go on dates and meet people,
which, yeah, I would say type A personalities, people who are more outgoing, who have the
confidence and the courage to go on essentially a blind date. And I really liked, with the exception
of one, all of those states were really good. The energy was high, the people were interesting,
they were confident, they had things to say. And yeah, I think in terms of going on dates,
that was my most successful app. So you've used both those apps, but you're suffering app fatigue
right now. What was the last date you went on that was not app based? Not app based.
Yeah. So when was the last time you met someone in the wild?
I don't know, off the record for a second here. I am not dating.
We are hanging out, but we did meet in the wild. I don't know how to talk about that without,
because we're not dating, that's the thing, but we are hanging out.
What's the difference? Between dating and hanging out.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, like Chelsea said in episode whatever, that dating is a performance. When
you show up on a date, you want to make a good impression. You want to put your best foot forward.
You are hoping the person will like you and maybe you're showing off a little bit or you come sort
of prepared to be like, look at me, check me out. What do you think? Is this going,
is it most first dates? I think the intention is to get a second date or, you know, you're,
at least I don't know, I'm very picky with who I've gone on first dates with. So already,
you know, I've knocked out 99% of people and then if I'm growing on a first day,
I'm kind of hoping the person's going to be cool and we're going to go on a second date.
But hanging out is just doing your sort of day to day things in natural environments where
there's way less of a performance involved. It's, you know, these are my everyday clothes and I just,
it sounds like you don't want to put a label on it. Yeah, I don't like labels.
You know, almost like, are you afraid to call it dating? Because that's too formal.
Dating is definitely too formal. I'm okay. There's multiple things happening here.
Also, I think it's important to mention that my perspective on dating has totally changed
from a year ago. I do not feel the same way about dating. I do not think the same way about dating.
Now I am happy to, like I said, like it's a sport to go on dates, to go on dates. I have also taken
my friends on dates and that has been super fun for some people. They're like, that's weird.
And I'm like, no, it's actually really fun because like another guest said,
how they define dating was spending intentional time with someone and an effort to get to know them
on a deeper level. And I really loved that definition of dating and it's also doing something nice,
doing something exciting, doing something out of the normal, which again is different than hanging out.
Yeah. I mean, you speak, you're very passionate about it and very excited about it. But at the
same time, you're like, I've completely had enough of that. So like, how does this, how do these two
things sit together? Yeah, because I've had enough of strangers and wasted time and kind of disappointing
outcomes. And I think also something that changed with me besides my perspective on dating was
recognizing that I'm not really looking for a relationship. And I'm quite content and happy.
Okay. Doing my own thing, being on my own wavelength and meeting people is fun. I did,
and you asked me when I last met someone in the wild, I have had multiple like hookups from the
wild where I'm at an event and I start chatting up someone and it's super nice and we have a nice
vibe and we go home together. That being said, most of these have happened during travels. So
there really isn't a potential for a second date anyways. Although in some cases, I think
there definitely could have been more hookups. That being said, there are a couple where I was
like, damn, I would totally enjoy a second date with this person, but I'm out of the country.
It's just not a thing that's going to actually happen. And that's, I mean, that is a bit of a
bummer in a way because it does feel, it feels different meeting someone in real life and
through a more natural process. Yeah. I hear that. But you also, before you mentioned that,
you said how happy you are and sort of loving the single life and not looking for anyone. And
that is a theme that we've heard from quite a few of the guests on the podcast for which
sometimes we listen to it and we are quite skeptical around the happiness because at the
same time, what are people then looking for if they're content? So how does that, how does that
say? Are you completely content with your single life or are you searching for something?
I am not actively searching for something. I do. Okay. Let me tell you, let me tell you,
let me tell you as someone who's, you've been in a relationship for a decade or something,
as someone who has been single multiple times over a decade, I will tell you, I very much enjoy
being on my own schedule, doing things how I want, eating when I want, sleeping when I want,
traveling when I want, doing God knows whatever. It's me, me, me. And in the past, and this is,
I guess, also, maybe this is a transformative phase of my life. And this is also why I'm having
these different ideas and thoughts and ways of doing things. In the past, I have gotten into
relationships and yeah, I have changed for them where I wanted to be in that relationship so bad.
I liked that person so much. I was having these love feelings and that I was just giving up
pieces of who I am for the sake of the relationship. And I learned after this last one to never do
that again, like period, I will never do that again. I have grown, I have spent years in therapy,
I have friends who are also growing and changing and absorbing information and reading self-help
books and trying things and we're sharing with each other when things also aren't working,
as well as when they're working so we can hype each other up and we can tell each other like,
cut the shit, cut that one off, whatever. And so at this phase in my life, I do feel really happy,
just doing my thing and not like in a lone wolf kind of thing. I'm not shutting people out. When I
meet someone on the street or at a festival or via via and an opportunity comes up and there's a
nice connection, I am open to that. I think, I mean, that's yeah, what life is about. I
please yes, you know, if our paths line up and they're going well together and we're
vibing and we're having fun, let's do that. But I'm not going to do it in the way like, oh, I like
you, you like me, let's go on dates. Like now we're dating, now we have to fit into these societal
expectations. Like now, does this mean we're going into a relationship? Ah, like it's the whole
perspective and idea for me has changed and is changing.
Do you think this is to do with age in a way like the older we get, like the less
the less accommodating you are for other people into your life or, you know, your own, you know,
the better the bar for to allow somebody into your life, you know, gets a little bit higher
than it was maybe when you were younger. I definitely think that's a part of it. I think age
comes into play. I think experience comes into play. You know, the more first dates you go on,
the quicker you are to kind of know or gauge like, oh, this isn't fucking worth it. The more
times you break up with people, the better you get at it. Maybe just more comfortable with it,
being like, yeah, thanks, but no thanks. And I do think, you know, more about, in my case,
I know more about myself and what I like and what I don't like. And that for sure narrows
the playing field. The last bit just on apps and app related things. Ghosting never done it or
necessary evil. I have never ghosted, but I have been ghosted many times. And I've even given people
an opportunity to say, hey, I feel like you don't want to meet up again. That's totally okay. Can
you just let me know? And people still don't, they still don't. I mean, having, you know, I've heard
it's a bad thing that people do, but it sounds like everybody does it. And you can solemnly say
you've never ghosted anybody. Okay, let me define ghosting. Go on then. Okay, for me, ghosting is
when you've made plans or a promise like, Hey, this has been a really great date. Would you like to
go on a second date? And the person says, yeah. And then you hit them up for a second date and they
never answer. I think if you have a nice time and you say thanks and you both leave the date and
nobody follows up, that's not ghosting. You didn't have intentions to see each other again. Yeah,
I agree with that. You just enjoyed your time and went your separate ways. There were no plans made.
No one's feelings are hurt. There's no questions lingering in the digital space for days, weeks,
months to come. It's just done. So I have never ghosted in that sense. Okay, that's good. That's
very, you know, that's a good moral position to be in. I think, okay, let's talk about some actual
dates. I would be interested to hear from you. What is your idea of the perfect date?
I think a good date involves first and foremost, a nice click. Secondly, food. And that food can come
multiple times throughout the day, depending on how long the date is. But there has to be good food.
For me, if someone is not under food, I'm not wasting my time. Okay. So there's no physical
location type thing. There's no activity type thing. It's more just what would categorize a
really good date for you. The click with the person, the click and the food and it can be an
adventure. I mean, we can start somewhere. And if the date is going well, I like that the date can
keep going. I mean, it's fun to do, you know, visit exhibits or go to a museum or hop on your bikes.
And let me show you this thing. I like it when people have, you know, fun, interesting,
quirky things to do. Okay, something that's a bit unconventional. Yeah, a bit unconventional.
An unconventional date is a really good date. Let's do something different.
So the flip side of that is then, you know, you tell me what a bad date for you looks like.
Oh, boring. The people just suck at conversation. It's like pulling teeth trying to talk to someone.
This one date. Okay, so. So I'll be about it. I so Esther Perrell has this really great storytelling
game with all these cards and prompts and it's a super fun game to play with close friends or
social circles. I don't think it's a game you can play with everyone, but I really enjoyed the cards.
And so I was keeping a stack in my backpack just to have with friends so we could have
share fun stories, cool conversations, get to know each other better. It's great for the summer when
there's plenty of outdoor time and picnics and beers on terraces and whatnot. And I got on this one
date. This guy, he came from another city and we, it was through breeze. So, you know, he made the
vetting process. I went and met him. I was excited about it. And we met in the afternoon. It was
one of the earlier time slots they had for some reason. And I just got a coffee and he had a tea
and whatever. And it was so hard to talk to him. I felt like I was interviewing him. And when I
asked questions, I also, you know, asked any ways, kind of interesting or funny or bizarre questions,
like, who's your best friend and what'd you eat for breakfast? Just kind of to get the
conversation started to have fun and do something different. And he was not giving me anything.
So I literally resorted to pulling these cards out of the bag. And I was like, Hey, so I've got
this game with me. And I had him pick a card and see read it. And again, it was just like one line
boring. And I think this was maybe 35 minutes into the date. It wasn't even that long. And I just
felt like, and then I think I probably made up a reason I had to leave or something. I don't know.
And he was like, Oh, I have to walk back to the station. And I was like, Oh, why don't you just
ride my bike and I'll hop on the back and then you can go to the station and I'll go my way.
So we did that. And I already knew I had no interest in seeing this guy again. And as soon as we stopped,
got my bike back and I said, Hey, thanks for coming to the city. I didn't feel a click. And I don't
want to go on a second date. And I was nervous about saying that. But I thought, No, like I know
my boundaries. No, I'm not interested. This is not worth my time. I will not do it again.
And I said this to him. And I think he was taken a bit by surprise. And he immediately started in
trying to almost justify himself that he's bad at first dates. And he was feeling a bit nervous.
And he was a bit stressed getting here. And I was like, regardless, I don't feel a connection. And
I'm not interested in going on a second date with you. And he was like, Well, we exchange numbers.
And I was like, I don't think that's a good idea. I really had to say no. Oh, no. And I mean, I
got I've practiced saying no many times over the last year and a half. It's been a great learning
curve. But yeah, just you know, when you when I felt that there's nothing more or there was this
other guy who I went on, Oh, three or four or five dates with even it was really nice. We had a
nice vibe. We had a nice click. He was attractive. It was working really well. And then at some point,
I felt that he wanted more. And he wanted to see me a bit more frequently. And I said, Hey, you know,
I'm busy. I have a lot of friends and I have work and I'm doing it summer. I have festivals and
parties and camping and all this shit. And I said, I'm happy to hang out with you, you know,
every other week or something, but I'm not going to see you every week or multiple times a week.
And he said, Okay, I understand. And then we hung out again. And we had a really nice hangout.
And then immediately he was on it again. And I really had to tell him, Hey, I don't think I'm
what you're looking for. I like you, the ABCD all great, but I cannot be this person you want me to
be. And I'm not going to. And I was very, very clear with him. And he did take a day to think
about it. And he responded, Okay, yeah, thank you. I really appreciate that. It's good to know. I
really liked you. I was like, Yeah, that's just life sometimes. I don't know. It's some of the
things you've said, make me think that you are just not looking for a relationship. I think I'm
not anymore. I was this is the thing I was. And I was going on the dating apps to find a relationship.
And then I thought, maybe I should just date to date to kind of to meet people to learn more about
other people learn more about myself, to go on dates to have fun to try places and sex things
and different ages and genders and just everything. And I think that transition probably happens.
I want to say, not this December, like a month ago, but December a whole year ago.
Think that's when my approach changed. And I thought, fuck it, I'm going to date to date.
And I ended up having way more fun actually, once I made that change.
Yeah, just makes you think that, you know, like these the apps themselves, probably there is
there's one or two apps. I mean, you mentioned them already, but a bit more geared to that
rather than I would imagine the majority of people are on apps because they want to try and
meet someone and have a relationship. They're people who are looking for a relationship. You
are somebody who at the moment is not looking for a relationship.
Which again, I realized in thought, maybe I also shouldn't be on the apps unless they're
explicitly like hook up, have fun. That's where I'm kind of getting at a little bit, you know,
well, from what I'm understanding is like, maybe you, you know, you, you, you bring a bit of stress
into your own life by being on the apps and having people want to communicate, reach out to you and
connect with you. And you're like, I don't want to connect with you. But then at the same time,
you're on the app, your names and lights, your profiles there. And like, who can begrudge a
person for wanting to try and match? I don't know. You're absolutely right. I guess that's
part of it. The app fatigue and the changing perspective and then deciding, I just shouldn't
be here right now. I mean, do you want to explore the sort of like, how you fit into the sort of
friend and social groups around you? You know, have you found that a lot of your friends are now
partnered up, family up? And are you left in the wake of, you know, having lost all these
three young singletons in your life now? And I don't know, is that influencing your thought
process a bit on, you know, not, not wanting to look for that? Yeah, fun story. This is how the
podcast started. I was at a moment in my life where everybody was in relationships around me.
And I thought, fuck, I'm the only single person. I was literally texting people like, who wants to
go to the show tonight? Who wants to go dancing? Who, you know, and I was just getting nose.
And I wasn't really up for doing it with strangers. So instead, I made a Twitter called
dating log, because no one had taken that handle since Twitter's existence in what, 2005, 2008,
something like that. And I just started tweeting about the people I was meeting, the dates I was
going on, the messages I was receiving, and it was silly and fun. And yeah, it just made me feel
better about being single when people had already had kids and houses and long relationships. And
I was like, fuck it, I'm just going to be kind of ha ha about this. And now, yeah, I do have friends
who have since become single friends who have gone through breakups and are in relationships again.
And what I found, which I also kind of liked is that people have come to me for dating advice
while they've been single. Like, all right, so what do you think about this app? How do I respond
to this message? What's a good date idea? And I kind of like being that person that people are
coming to for the advice and for the ideas. And do you think this is a transition for you to become
a dating coach? Oh, God, I don't know. I thought about that a little bit. I would like to get paid
for it. That would be nice. Pay me for my advice. Okay, so maybe maybe you become a dating coach,
and that will be the end result from, you know, you've got the experience building out
as the host of a podcast, which is how it all started. Just exploring the podcast for a little bit
is quite an interesting area. So, but firstly, are there any from season one that we have put
together? Are there any conversations for you that really stand out as being, I don't know,
like those with the most that you've learned from it, or those you felt the most sort of
emotionally connected to? Yeah, Sam's advice to send a voice memo, I think is excellent advice.
The day after I had that conversation with him, I put it into a practice and I was on a date
that evening or the next evening. And I continued to do it. I would send people voice memos immediately.
Hey, this is me. Are you free to meet up? And actually, most people don't send voice memos back,
which I also found interesting. But some people just didn't respond. And I thought, okay, if this
person can't respond to my actual voice, then never mind anyway, it's not the kind of person I'm
gonna, yeah, want to go. I don't know, for some, there's no match there, right? There's something
if people can't my friends know this, I send voice memos. A lot of them have also become voice
memo senders. You're welcome. Thank you. It's great. But that was one piece of advice that really,
I think, like he said, it can save you a lot of time. You can tell a lot about a person by
how they speak and what they say and, you know, do they take the time to respond to what you've
said? Have they listened to what you said? And that, yeah, that is one that really sticks out.
I think Sam, Sam was also one of the first conversations we had of somebody who opened up
about how much the dating world can suck. Definitely. I found that quite an interesting
angle and I could hear a different tone in your own in in your own questioning when speaking to him,
because of his own situation was a bit sad. Yeah, that was the first conversation. And I think,
arguably, the the rawest conversation because of the context in which it was had,
it just gotten off the phone. And I thought, oh, this is this is special. You know, this is unique.
I mean, we've had this conversation planned to be recorded for a week or two ahead of time.
And this is something that has just happened. Let's explore this here and now. And I think it
really captured this. Yeah, this sadness and disappointment and frustration with the dating
world as someone in your 30s, when, let's say, stereotypically, in many parts of the world,
your friends are partnered up, they do have kids, they do have out they have all these things that
you don't have. And I mean, I went through this myself, but I think it was different. It was in
my late 20s. I thought, like, fuck, I've got like, I think four or five of our guests said this,
like, I've I've failed. Like, why can't I keep a relationship? And it's also very, you know,
egotistical to be like, oh, I mean, relationships take more than one person. If
if you're in a relationship with one person, there's two of you. If there's more people,
there's more people. It's just changing tack. Why do you think you're single?
I want to be. It's out of choice. Really? Yeah, it's it's a choice. I did. Okay, so
when I have a breakup, I my whole life, I have never been a serial monogamous. I do not understand
people who are. I think it's very important to take time after a relationship, one, to grieve
that relationship, two, to make sure it's really over, three, to think about it. Like, what?
Why did that not work? What did I like about that? What did I not like about that? If you were just
throwing yourself back into the game, you're just you're lying to yourself, you're distracting,
you're not grieving, there's something, you know, there's like, whatever the fuck it is. I mean,
I I don't get it. It's some people serial monogamy works fine. People hop from relationship to
relationship. I actually I realize I've totally got this pattern of meeting people when they're not
out of relationships yet, but like their relationship is kind of ending. And I meet them and we start
hanging out. And then, you know, it's me being like, yo, like, yeah, I like you and this is fun,
but you're dating someone. And then the needing to break up with that person before they start
dating me. So I do have a type it's serial monogamous. And only children that as well has been a
weird pattern that I've had, which neither of those things work for me. And I know that now.
Okay, so you the reason why you're single is because you choose to be single.
I'm choosing to be single right now. I have chosen to really take this. I mean, okay, so at the end
of every relationship, I say at least six months. And I've always stuck to that at least six months
of being single, recovering, recuperating, taking care of me, signing up for a new course,
moving to a new city, whatever I'm doing. But this time around, I think I, not I think this
time around, I have chosen to be single because I'm enjoying it in a different way. I am more
sure of myself. I feel really happy and saturated with the people in my life, like all my friends.
I have such good friends and people here. And I mean, I'm not spending the holidays alone. People
invite me. I go to them for Christmas in New Year's and I join their summer vacations. I'm
like the single friend who like one of your kids gonna call me auntie, you know, I hear you.
And I believe you. But what's the but? Well, I think, you know, at the same time, you know,
I know you and like give me a two plus phrase of this way, why don't you give me a percentage as
to how open you are to meeting someone. Now you choose to be single because you know, the answer
to why you're single is because you choose to be and you're on decided also now you're not actively
dating. Yeah. But you know, if the right person walks in to your work, or you sit on the train or
whatever, you know, are you then hey, I'm not dating not interested. No. No, exactly. 50, 50%
50% Okay, that's so much higher than I thought you're gonna say. Well, I thought about saying like
10 or 25. And then I thought no, because it is 50 50, it's going to be a yes or a no. I'm not
shut down. Yeah, people do come into my work and I have been asked on dates at my work. I have
regulars who are definitely flirting. I got a guy who Oh God, there's been a few of them.
One guy he he still comes in regularly. He's a retired chef. He's a bit older. He clearly has
loads of money and time. And he left his number and already got months ago at the beginning of
the summer and said, call me when you're ready to go on a date. Our first date will not be in
Amsterdam. Wow. Do you know I feel like you want to just, you know, cash that cash that ticket in
just to see what it is. You know, there's there's something in me that's holding me back because
this guy comes in once a month easily, you know, we chat he hangs out for half an hour we have a
nice conversation. I do like him as a person. The dating there's something stopping me and I've
also learned to listen to your gut. That's the thing. Yeah. So have other guys have other guys
given you their number? I'm interested because you know, how do they give you their number?
Like, do they write it down and then just slide it across the desk? Yeah, just like leave it on a
piece of paper kind of thing, which is a totally different game than with woman, by the way, because
guys will do that. They've got the balls to just kind of ask and say and leave their number like
this is for you. Whereas there's this sort of, you know, running joke in the lesbian community
that lesbians are useless. People will flirt forever and nobody will ever ask each other out.
People will really like each other and all their friends will know they like each other, but they'll
never go on a first date. And it's just so the opposite of even though they both know that
there's been so, yeah, is there like, is there like, oh, am I about to cross the Rubicon here with
someone who I don't know is actually that way inclined or I do find that difficult. I find it
so hard, especially women in the wild. Like there are some women I'm like, yeah, definitely gay.
And then there are some where I'm like, I'm not quite sure. I have definitely been on dates with
women who I thought were gay only for them to tell me like, oh, this is my first day with the woman
and I'm like, fuck, like, what's been duped again? So is it a tough question to ask you
when your next date is? Because it sounds like the answer to that might be, I don't have one.
But as someone who's not dating, when is your next date? Yeah, I don't, I don't have the next date.
Wow. I don't know. I really don't know. But you are also, I mean, this has come at a time when
you're also planning to be away for a while. So that's true. I am going to take someone out at
the end of the month. It's not a date, but I will take them out for an adventure. Okay, why is it
not a date? Because dating comes with pressures and expectations. Oh, you are so you are so afraid
of putting a label on it. It's not a date. I'm not going to show up in anything other than myself.
Yeah, you're too, I think you're too rigid and you're thinking about what date is and what it's
not. And I, you know, you're worried about putting the label on it. I think it's a date.
I don't know that's what it sounds like. Am I am I being unfair?
No, but it's, we don't define it as dating. Okay. This is someone who you've seen,
you've just someone who you've seen a few times already. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
But we're not defining it as dating. We are hanging out and we are enjoying each other's
company and having fun. And there was a time that, yeah, she took me out and I will take her out.
Okay, maybe I'm too linear, but that sounds like dates to me. But then again, what do I know?
If I take my girlfriend out, I would call that a date.
Are you taking her out on a date? You're not taking her out?
Well, we would go on a date if we got up for dinner or something like that. I don't know.
It's just like, you know, we're going to do something out of the ordinary from our day to day,
get back, cook some food, sit on the sofa. But you've got a relationship.
Yeah, but they see, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, but I'm not afraid to call it what it is.
Whereas you, you know, it's this person who's seen several times, I would say,
potentially the green shoots of a relationship and you are afraid of slapping,
you're afraid of slapping the date tag on it.
Doing it differently, I'm not afraid.
Okay, what about from, from this other person's perspective? How would she view
whatever it is that you got planned in a week or so?
Yeah, as the day that I'm taking her out.
And it's a surprise. It's a surprise as well. She doesn't know what's going to happen. I know
what's going to happen. I've got a theme. It's going to be fun. It's going to be an adventure.
The day that I'm taking her out. It sounds very close to the definition of what a date might look like.
To some people, maybe. But again, I think maybe with dating, maybe this is another difference,
that there is, if you're consistently dating someone, there is sort of this intention or
expectation that it becomes a relationship. And that is not something that we are doing
in, let's say, society's perspective. There is no intention for it to become any sort of
like monogamous, couple-y, we're building a life together relationship. That is not where either
one of us is at. And so there's no need for that or no expectation for that. And I think
that makes it different than the dating that I was doing before, the dating that a lot of our
guests are doing. They're looking for that. They're looking for someone to build a life with,
to build a home with. She has a life. I have a life. She has a home. I'm going to find a home.
You know, these are... Okay, but I see. So if I was to
sum up with your thinking there, is it's like dating is what people do on the path to a relationship.
Yes, to build something together kind of thing. Yeah, okay. Whereas when you're just...
But the process of getting to know someone not on the path to... With a mutual acceptance that
this is not on the path to a relationship. Yeah. That you just call it hanging out.
It's enjoying each other's company and having fun and trying new things. And I think there is a
difference there. And I'm curious also, you know, for season two and the guests I talked to,
certainly we're going to get some new perspectives in this next season. And maybe this again is age
related. Maybe it's experience related. I'm so curious. So what advice would you like to leave
our listeners with? Okay, my first... The first thing that comes up is go for it. Just go for it.
If you see someone in the wild, go for it. If you see someone on an app you like, go for it right away.
If there's a friend who says, hey, my friend, da, da, da, ask for their number, go for it. I mean,
yeah, take the opportunity. I mean, if you don't do anything, you're not going to get anywhere.
And if you ask and get a no, you're at the same place you were when you started. And get used to
rejection, get comfortable with rejection. The bottom line is not everyone's going to like you.
And that's okay because there will be people who really do like you. And it's going to be so nice
when those moments happen. And just like with jobs, you're probably going to get 10 no's for
everyone. Yes. So just accept that. Accept failure. But try anyways.
This episode of Dating Log was recorded, hosted and produced by me, Harry Dark. Your regular host
is Wyndham Juno. Our artwork is in collaboration with Esme Heming from the studio. You can follow
us on Instagram at datinglogpodcast. Our website is datinglogpodcast.com. If you'd like to send us
a message, slide into our DMs or email us datinglogpodcast.com. Please like and subscribe
wherever you listen and look out for more bonus content getting released in the run up to season
two. If you enjoy what we do, please leave a review or tell a friend. But above all, please
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