1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,200 Welcome to Dating Log, the podcast that records the ups and downs of dating in your 30s and beyond. 2 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,520 I'm your host Harry Darke. I'm the producer for Dating Log and today I'm coming out from 3 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:29,520 behind the screens to turn the tables on your regular host Wyndham. This is the first of some 4 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:36,400 bonus content we're releasing while we work away on season two of Dating Log. 12 brand new episodes 5 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:44,720 coming at you from spring this year. Who really is Wyndham? What's going on in her dating life? 6 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:51,040 Is she single? Is she even dating? Has hosting this podcast altered her outlook in any way? 7 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:58,640 All will be revealed in this frank, open and honest conversation between two friends 8 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,520 about this side of her life. Let's learn more from the show's regular host. 9 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:15,440 My name is Wyndham. I am 34 years old. I live in Amsterdam and I'm actually currently on an 10 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:22,960 dating hiatus because I think winter dating is the off season for dating and I'm not interested in 11 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:28,720 hibernating with someone for the winter. So is the approach that you've stopped dating completely 12 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:40,800 through the winter? That is my approach. Yes. But why? Yeah, so a few things. I was active on the apps 13 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:49,520 for, let's say, I needed to find active. Let's say I had the apps open and I was updating my 14 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:58,560 profiles and trying different things for a solid year and a half. And I tried different apps. 15 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:05,520 I went on lots of first dates, a few second dates, fewer third dates, made some nice connections. 16 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:13,920 I think I'm still in touch with one person who I met on the apps originally. And what I've noticed, 17 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:17,440 because this is not my first round on dating apps, I also was on the dating apps 18 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:26,560 years ago before my last relationship and also in my mid-20s. And what I noticed is that when you 19 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:32,080 reach this period between fall and winter, when it starts getting dark and cold, people get a little 20 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:39,040 bit desperate. They really want to meet you now and they want to see you again immediately. And 21 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:46,560 that is like a winter buddy, which is just something I'm not interested in doing. Yeah, 22 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:53,760 so already, I mean, let's say the end of last summer, I was kind of getting a bit tired and 23 00:02:53,760 --> 00:03:00,400 worn out. I tried to get on hinge because a lot of our guests have been on hinge. Hinge, is it hinge? 24 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,920 I think it was hinge. And I tried to get on that because people were like, oh, this is a bit more 25 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:13,680 involved or serious. And they just started feeling like work. And on top of that, it was summer and 26 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:18,880 I was out and about and I was having flirts and meeting people and having fun. And I thought, 27 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:25,120 fuck it, I am done for now. Like, I'm taking a break. Fall is coming, which means winter is coming. 28 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:32,320 I'm probably going to leave anyways and travel. And I'm just not interested. Yeah, on top of that, 29 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:38,240 I think I came to realize by doing the podcast that I wasn't actually interested in getting into 30 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:43,600 a relationship. I was interested in dating. And a lot of the people on the apps are interested 31 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:49,440 in getting into relationships. So that's the whole story. Is it fair to say that you had 32 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:57,120 app fatigue? I think app fatigue is a great way to put it. And I already had a timer on my phone, 33 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:04,080 a limit of 15 minutes per day. And that was more than enough some days, you know, you get on, 34 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:09,840 you swipe a few times and you're like, yeah, fuck this, I'm tired. It's funny because it's the opposite 35 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:16,400 of what a lot of people come into the fall period thinking is that being lonely through 36 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,640 Christmas and New Year sucks. And so a lot of people want to go out and meet them, 37 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:27,360 but you're taking the opposite end of that. That's correct. I would rather be having fun 38 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:35,600 by myself than getting into a relationship or of any kind or just going on multiple dates with 39 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:42,000 someone because yeah, because of their needs or I'm putting myself first, that's what I'm doing. 40 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:47,440 I'm not interested in getting into something for the sake of getting into something. I would rather 41 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:55,680 sit alone on New Year's than be out on a shitty date. Okay, so then let's say, let's go back to 42 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:02,240 summer wind then, like dating wind. Wind in the wild. Wind in the wild, you know, maybe a bit more 43 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:12,320 active from a dating perspective. What apps were you using at the time and why? Yeah, so the majority 44 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:20,160 of my success and I would consider that getting off the app and dating in real life has come from 45 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:29,040 field and breeze. And these are two very different apps. So fields is an app that has made the mainstream 46 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:37,360 at this point. But let's say when did it start seven years ago or so? It was more or less an app for 47 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:43,840 people who wanted to explore different kinds of relationships. So non-monogamous relationships, 48 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:51,040 open relationships, swingers, threesomes. And there's also a pretty big queer community out there. 49 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:56,160 So men and women, it's not exclusively one or the other. Men, women, ex, all of all inclusive 50 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:03,600 everything. And what I liked about that app is because it was targeting a different audience. 51 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:10,960 I found the people to be more interesting and more unique and also more willing to meet up or get off 52 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:17,120 the app a bit quicker. So I did have a number of dates through fields. I mean, there were dates 53 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:25,200 that the intention was just to kind of meet up and see if there was a vibe and hook up. And then 54 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,680 there were a couple people who I met and, you know, we did have a nice vibe and didn't sleep 55 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:34,560 together at first, but then, you know, went on the second and third dates. And that was 56 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:42,480 pretty nice. I've also dated couples through fields, which is fun now and then. It's a different flavor. 57 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:49,280 But last, like, I think the beginning of last summer, it did make kind of mainstream media here. 58 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,720 And then it, you know, suddenly it's Google hits were way up and there were so many people on the 59 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,440 app and it almost became flooded with people wanting to try out new things and explore. And I 60 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:06,080 was like, fuck this, like, I'm, it's too much. It's overflowing. Yeah, it just became flooded with 61 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,800 not the kind of people who I wanted to meet. So that one I kind of put on pause. And that's a 62 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:15,040 great thing you can do there is deactivate your profile so you can keep it, but like deactivate 63 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:25,280 it and just hide yourself. Breeze, however, I think is a genius dating app created by Dutchies. 64 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:30,160 And if you're a Dutch, you will understand why when I explained to you how it works. So 65 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:36,960 Breeze is an app that more or less promises to get people on first dates. And what happens with 66 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:42,800 Breeze is you make your profile, you set your preferences, and then there are two times a day 67 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,680 where it gives you at 7am and 7pm, you get seven profiles to swipe through and you can swipe back 68 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:54,240 and forth, you can look at them. And at the bottom, there are some variables that basically say, 69 00:07:54,240 --> 00:08:01,920 if you go on a date or if you both say yes, the date will take place in city, you will either, 70 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:07,840 it's the options are, you know, go for drinks or go for a walk. And then you both speak and then 71 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:13,440 the languages that you have in common, which I think is pretty cool and is not something that 72 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:19,920 the other dating apps have. So first of all, your choices are limited. And there were many days where 73 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:26,720 I was not interested in anyone on the app. And then when you do say yes, and the other person says yes, 74 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:32,960 the app is like, Hey, you've got a match, please fill out your availability for the next two weeks. 75 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:40,000 And then you pick the days and times you're available. Once there's something in common 76 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,880 with the other person, the app says, Great, you're both available on this day at this time. 77 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:52,320 Please put down your deposits. And then you put down a deposit for the app, which for a while was 78 00:08:52,320 --> 00:09:01,280 about seven, seven euros, 50 cents, something like that. It's gone up. And then the app says, Thank you. 79 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:08,480 We'll let you know where your date is 24 hours before it happens. So 24 hours before your date, 80 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:15,840 the app says you're going to this location. And only two hours before the date, a chat box opens up. 81 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:22,080 And it's meant for any last minute changes, cancellations, I'm running late, could we do this, 82 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:27,680 blah, blah, blah. And then when you get to the date, so it's kind of like a blind date in a way, 83 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:32,400 because you've only seen a profile with a few things about this person, you haven't chatted, 84 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,960 you show up and you have to check in at the bar, because the bar is also reporting to the app, 85 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:43,120 whether you showed up or not. And if you're like a no show, or you cancel or something, 86 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:49,040 the app will kick you off. And the type of people on breeze were with different sort of profiles 87 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:57,680 from that on field? Definitely. I, from breeze, it felt like people were really interested in 88 00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:03,280 going on dates. They didn't want to talk endlessly. They didn't want to send unsolicited picks. 89 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:10,480 It wasn't necessarily just for hookups. It was people who wanted to go on dates and meet people, 90 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:18,560 which, yeah, I would say type A personalities, people who are more outgoing, who have the 91 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:26,560 confidence and the courage to go on essentially a blind date. And I really liked, with the exception 92 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:32,400 of one, all of those states were really good. The energy was high, the people were interesting, 93 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:40,320 they were confident, they had things to say. And yeah, I think in terms of going on dates, 94 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:46,560 that was my most successful app. So you've used both those apps, but you're suffering app fatigue 95 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:55,840 right now. What was the last date you went on that was not app based? Not app based. 96 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,360 Yeah. So when was the last time you met someone in the wild? 97 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,600 I don't know, off the record for a second here. I am not dating. 98 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:12,400 We are hanging out, but we did meet in the wild. I don't know how to talk about that without, 99 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,280 because we're not dating, that's the thing, but we are hanging out. 100 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,560 What's the difference? Between dating and hanging out. 101 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:30,320 Yeah. Yeah. Well, like Chelsea said in episode whatever, that dating is a performance. When 102 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:36,480 you show up on a date, you want to make a good impression. You want to put your best foot forward. 103 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:41,760 You are hoping the person will like you and maybe you're showing off a little bit or you come sort 104 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:48,400 of prepared to be like, look at me, check me out. What do you think? Is this going, 105 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:56,720 is it most first dates? I think the intention is to get a second date or, you know, you're, 106 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:02,320 at least I don't know, I'm very picky with who I've gone on first dates with. So already, 107 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,480 you know, I've knocked out 99% of people and then if I'm growing on a first day, 108 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,600 I'm kind of hoping the person's going to be cool and we're going to go on a second date. 109 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:18,160 But hanging out is just doing your sort of day to day things in natural environments where 110 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:25,760 there's way less of a performance involved. It's, you know, these are my everyday clothes and I just, 111 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:31,440 it sounds like you don't want to put a label on it. Yeah, I don't like labels. 112 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:36,400 You know, almost like, are you afraid to call it dating? Because that's too formal. 113 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,360 Dating is definitely too formal. I'm okay. There's multiple things happening here. 114 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:49,360 Also, I think it's important to mention that my perspective on dating has totally changed 115 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:56,160 from a year ago. I do not feel the same way about dating. I do not think the same way about dating. 116 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:04,240 Now I am happy to, like I said, like it's a sport to go on dates, to go on dates. I have also taken 117 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:10,480 my friends on dates and that has been super fun for some people. They're like, that's weird. 118 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:15,120 And I'm like, no, it's actually really fun because like another guest said, 119 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:21,920 how they define dating was spending intentional time with someone and an effort to get to know them 120 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:29,680 on a deeper level. And I really loved that definition of dating and it's also doing something nice, 121 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:34,960 doing something exciting, doing something out of the normal, which again is different than hanging out. 122 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,680 Yeah. I mean, you speak, you're very passionate about it and very excited about it. But at the 123 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:43,840 same time, you're like, I've completely had enough of that. So like, how does this, how do these two 124 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:53,760 things sit together? Yeah, because I've had enough of strangers and wasted time and kind of disappointing 125 00:13:53,760 --> 00:14:01,520 outcomes. And I think also something that changed with me besides my perspective on dating was 126 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:08,960 recognizing that I'm not really looking for a relationship. And I'm quite content and happy. 127 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:16,240 Okay. Doing my own thing, being on my own wavelength and meeting people is fun. I did, 128 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:24,480 and you asked me when I last met someone in the wild, I have had multiple like hookups from the 129 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:30,640 wild where I'm at an event and I start chatting up someone and it's super nice and we have a nice 130 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:36,880 vibe and we go home together. That being said, most of these have happened during travels. So 131 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:42,960 there really isn't a potential for a second date anyways. Although in some cases, I think 132 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:48,160 there definitely could have been more hookups. That being said, there are a couple where I was 133 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:53,840 like, damn, I would totally enjoy a second date with this person, but I'm out of the country. 134 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:01,280 It's just not a thing that's going to actually happen. And that's, I mean, that is a bit of a 135 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:08,480 bummer in a way because it does feel, it feels different meeting someone in real life and 136 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:16,320 through a more natural process. Yeah. I hear that. But you also, before you mentioned that, 137 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:23,760 you said how happy you are and sort of loving the single life and not looking for anyone. And 138 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:29,680 that is a theme that we've heard from quite a few of the guests on the podcast for which 139 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:37,360 sometimes we listen to it and we are quite skeptical around the happiness because at the 140 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:43,760 same time, what are people then looking for if they're content? So how does that, how does that 141 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:50,880 say? Are you completely content with your single life or are you searching for something? 142 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:57,040 I am not actively searching for something. I do. Okay. Let me tell you, let me tell you, 143 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,680 let me tell you as someone who's, you've been in a relationship for a decade or something, 144 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:10,960 as someone who has been single multiple times over a decade, I will tell you, I very much enjoy 145 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:17,600 being on my own schedule, doing things how I want, eating when I want, sleeping when I want, 146 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:26,000 traveling when I want, doing God knows whatever. It's me, me, me. And in the past, and this is, 147 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,440 I guess, also, maybe this is a transformative phase of my life. And this is also why I'm having 148 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:38,720 these different ideas and thoughts and ways of doing things. In the past, I have gotten into 149 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:48,400 relationships and yeah, I have changed for them where I wanted to be in that relationship so bad. 150 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:54,880 I liked that person so much. I was having these love feelings and that I was just giving up 151 00:16:55,520 --> 00:17:01,360 pieces of who I am for the sake of the relationship. And I learned after this last one to never do 152 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:08,560 that again, like period, I will never do that again. I have grown, I have spent years in therapy, 153 00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:14,000 I have friends who are also growing and changing and absorbing information and reading self-help 154 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,920 books and trying things and we're sharing with each other when things also aren't working, 155 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,160 as well as when they're working so we can hype each other up and we can tell each other like, 156 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:30,640 cut the shit, cut that one off, whatever. And so at this phase in my life, I do feel really happy, 157 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:35,520 just doing my thing and not like in a lone wolf kind of thing. I'm not shutting people out. When I 158 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:42,800 meet someone on the street or at a festival or via via and an opportunity comes up and there's a 159 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:49,120 nice connection, I am open to that. I think, I mean, that's yeah, what life is about. I 160 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:56,480 please yes, you know, if our paths line up and they're going well together and we're 161 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,960 vibing and we're having fun, let's do that. But I'm not going to do it in the way like, oh, I like 162 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,440 you, you like me, let's go on dates. Like now we're dating, now we have to fit into these societal 163 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:10,240 expectations. Like now, does this mean we're going into a relationship? Ah, like it's the whole 164 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,920 perspective and idea for me has changed and is changing. 165 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:20,400 Do you think this is to do with age in a way like the older we get, like the less 166 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:26,720 the less accommodating you are for other people into your life or, you know, your own, you know, 167 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,360 the better the bar for to allow somebody into your life, you know, gets a little bit higher 168 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:37,360 than it was maybe when you were younger. I definitely think that's a part of it. I think age 169 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:43,520 comes into play. I think experience comes into play. You know, the more first dates you go on, 170 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:50,640 the quicker you are to kind of know or gauge like, oh, this isn't fucking worth it. The more 171 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:56,960 times you break up with people, the better you get at it. Maybe just more comfortable with it, 172 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:02,800 being like, yeah, thanks, but no thanks. And I do think, you know, more about, in my case, 173 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:08,400 I know more about myself and what I like and what I don't like. And that for sure narrows 174 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:16,000 the playing field. The last bit just on apps and app related things. Ghosting never done it or 175 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:25,920 necessary evil. I have never ghosted, but I have been ghosted many times. And I've even given people 176 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:35,920 an opportunity to say, hey, I feel like you don't want to meet up again. That's totally okay. Can 177 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:43,200 you just let me know? And people still don't, they still don't. I mean, having, you know, I've heard 178 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:51,200 it's a bad thing that people do, but it sounds like everybody does it. And you can solemnly say 179 00:19:51,200 --> 00:20:01,840 you've never ghosted anybody. Okay, let me define ghosting. Go on then. Okay, for me, ghosting is 180 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:08,240 when you've made plans or a promise like, Hey, this has been a really great date. Would you like to 181 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,880 go on a second date? And the person says, yeah. And then you hit them up for a second date and they 182 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:19,280 never answer. I think if you have a nice time and you say thanks and you both leave the date and 183 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,680 nobody follows up, that's not ghosting. You didn't have intentions to see each other again. Yeah, 184 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,480 I agree with that. You just enjoyed your time and went your separate ways. There were no plans made. 185 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:34,560 No one's feelings are hurt. There's no questions lingering in the digital space for days, weeks, 186 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:40,160 months to come. It's just done. So I have never ghosted in that sense. Okay, that's good. That's 187 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:48,000 very, you know, that's a good moral position to be in. I think, okay, let's talk about some actual 188 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:53,840 dates. I would be interested to hear from you. What is your idea of the perfect date? 189 00:20:53,840 --> 00:21:03,040 I think a good date involves first and foremost, a nice click. Secondly, food. And that food can come 190 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:07,520 multiple times throughout the day, depending on how long the date is. But there has to be good food. 191 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:13,600 For me, if someone is not under food, I'm not wasting my time. Okay. So there's no physical 192 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:19,920 location type thing. There's no activity type thing. It's more just what would categorize a 193 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,080 really good date for you. The click with the person, the click and the food and it can be an 194 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:29,840 adventure. I mean, we can start somewhere. And if the date is going well, I like that the date can 195 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:36,080 keep going. I mean, it's fun to do, you know, visit exhibits or go to a museum or hop on your bikes. 196 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:42,080 And let me show you this thing. I like it when people have, you know, fun, interesting, 197 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,480 quirky things to do. Okay, something that's a bit unconventional. Yeah, a bit unconventional. 198 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,680 An unconventional date is a really good date. Let's do something different. 199 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,720 So the flip side of that is then, you know, you tell me what a bad date for you looks like. 200 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:07,280 Oh, boring. The people just suck at conversation. It's like pulling teeth trying to talk to someone. 201 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:13,920 This one date. Okay, so. So I'll be about it. I so Esther Perrell has this really great storytelling 202 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:19,680 game with all these cards and prompts and it's a super fun game to play with close friends or 203 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,400 social circles. I don't think it's a game you can play with everyone, but I really enjoyed the cards. 204 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,400 And so I was keeping a stack in my backpack just to have with friends so we could have 205 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:34,080 share fun stories, cool conversations, get to know each other better. It's great for the summer when 206 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:40,640 there's plenty of outdoor time and picnics and beers on terraces and whatnot. And I got on this one 207 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:47,840 date. This guy, he came from another city and we, it was through breeze. So, you know, he made the 208 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,960 vetting process. I went and met him. I was excited about it. And we met in the afternoon. It was 209 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:59,120 one of the earlier time slots they had for some reason. And I just got a coffee and he had a tea 210 00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:07,440 and whatever. And it was so hard to talk to him. I felt like I was interviewing him. And when I 211 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:13,520 asked questions, I also, you know, asked any ways, kind of interesting or funny or bizarre questions, 212 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,880 like, who's your best friend and what'd you eat for breakfast? Just kind of to get the 213 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:23,120 conversation started to have fun and do something different. And he was not giving me anything. 214 00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:29,600 So I literally resorted to pulling these cards out of the bag. And I was like, Hey, so I've got 215 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:37,360 this game with me. And I had him pick a card and see read it. And again, it was just like one line 216 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:43,520 boring. And I think this was maybe 35 minutes into the date. It wasn't even that long. And I just 217 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:50,560 felt like, and then I think I probably made up a reason I had to leave or something. I don't know. 218 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,640 And he was like, Oh, I have to walk back to the station. And I was like, Oh, why don't you just 219 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,240 ride my bike and I'll hop on the back and then you can go to the station and I'll go my way. 220 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:05,120 So we did that. And I already knew I had no interest in seeing this guy again. And as soon as we stopped, 221 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:12,320 got my bike back and I said, Hey, thanks for coming to the city. I didn't feel a click. And I don't 222 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:18,640 want to go on a second date. And I was nervous about saying that. But I thought, No, like I know 223 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,320 my boundaries. No, I'm not interested. This is not worth my time. I will not do it again. 224 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:29,280 And I said this to him. And I think he was taken a bit by surprise. And he immediately started in 225 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:35,280 trying to almost justify himself that he's bad at first dates. And he was feeling a bit nervous. 226 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:41,840 And he was a bit stressed getting here. And I was like, regardless, I don't feel a connection. And 227 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,920 I'm not interested in going on a second date with you. And he was like, Well, we exchange numbers. 228 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:57,840 And I was like, I don't think that's a good idea. I really had to say no. Oh, no. And I mean, I 229 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,240 got I've practiced saying no many times over the last year and a half. It's been a great learning 230 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:11,440 curve. But yeah, just you know, when you when I felt that there's nothing more or there was this 231 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:17,280 other guy who I went on, Oh, three or four or five dates with even it was really nice. We had a 232 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:24,480 nice vibe. We had a nice click. He was attractive. It was working really well. And then at some point, 233 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:32,640 I felt that he wanted more. And he wanted to see me a bit more frequently. And I said, Hey, you know, 234 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:41,840 I'm busy. I have a lot of friends and I have work and I'm doing it summer. I have festivals and 235 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:47,440 parties and camping and all this shit. And I said, I'm happy to hang out with you, you know, 236 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,280 every other week or something, but I'm not going to see you every week or multiple times a week. 237 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,040 And he said, Okay, I understand. And then we hung out again. And we had a really nice hangout. 238 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:04,080 And then immediately he was on it again. And I really had to tell him, Hey, I don't think I'm 239 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:11,040 what you're looking for. I like you, the ABCD all great, but I cannot be this person you want me to 240 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:17,600 be. And I'm not going to. And I was very, very clear with him. And he did take a day to think 241 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:22,960 about it. And he responded, Okay, yeah, thank you. I really appreciate that. It's good to know. I 242 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:29,280 really liked you. I was like, Yeah, that's just life sometimes. I don't know. It's some of the 243 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,560 things you've said, make me think that you are just not looking for a relationship. I think I'm 244 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:42,000 not anymore. I was this is the thing I was. And I was going on the dating apps to find a relationship. 245 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:48,400 And then I thought, maybe I should just date to date to kind of to meet people to learn more about 246 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:56,560 other people learn more about myself, to go on dates to have fun to try places and sex things 247 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:05,120 and different ages and genders and just everything. And I think that transition probably happens. 248 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:12,640 I want to say, not this December, like a month ago, but December a whole year ago. 249 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,000 Think that's when my approach changed. And I thought, fuck it, I'm going to date to date. 250 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,760 And I ended up having way more fun actually, once I made that change. 251 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,200 Yeah, just makes you think that, you know, like these the apps themselves, probably there is 252 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,520 there's one or two apps. I mean, you mentioned them already, but a bit more geared to that 253 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,560 rather than I would imagine the majority of people are on apps because they want to try and 254 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,960 meet someone and have a relationship. They're people who are looking for a relationship. You 255 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,000 are somebody who at the moment is not looking for a relationship. 256 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:50,400 Which again, I realized in thought, maybe I also shouldn't be on the apps unless they're 257 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,880 explicitly like hook up, have fun. That's where I'm kind of getting at a little bit, you know, 258 00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:00,400 well, from what I'm understanding is like, maybe you, you know, you, you, you bring a bit of stress 259 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:06,080 into your own life by being on the apps and having people want to communicate, reach out to you and 260 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:11,600 connect with you. And you're like, I don't want to connect with you. But then at the same time, 261 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,640 you're on the app, your names and lights, your profiles there. And like, who can begrudge a 262 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,480 person for wanting to try and match? I don't know. You're absolutely right. I guess that's 263 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,840 part of it. The app fatigue and the changing perspective and then deciding, I just shouldn't 264 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:32,560 be here right now. I mean, do you want to explore the sort of like, how you fit into the sort of 265 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:38,960 friend and social groups around you? You know, have you found that a lot of your friends are now 266 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:47,760 partnered up, family up? And are you left in the wake of, you know, having lost all these 267 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,360 three young singletons in your life now? And I don't know, is that influencing your thought 268 00:28:53,360 --> 00:29:00,000 process a bit on, you know, not, not wanting to look for that? Yeah, fun story. This is how the 269 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:07,920 podcast started. I was at a moment in my life where everybody was in relationships around me. 270 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,960 And I thought, fuck, I'm the only single person. I was literally texting people like, who wants to 271 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,200 go to the show tonight? Who wants to go dancing? Who, you know, and I was just getting nose. 272 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:22,800 And I wasn't really up for doing it with strangers. So instead, I made a Twitter called 273 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:28,880 dating log, because no one had taken that handle since Twitter's existence in what, 2005, 2008, 274 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:34,720 something like that. And I just started tweeting about the people I was meeting, the dates I was 275 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:44,640 going on, the messages I was receiving, and it was silly and fun. And yeah, it just made me feel 276 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:52,720 better about being single when people had already had kids and houses and long relationships. And 277 00:29:52,720 --> 00:30:03,040 I was like, fuck it, I'm just going to be kind of ha ha about this. And now, yeah, I do have friends 278 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:08,080 who have since become single friends who have gone through breakups and are in relationships again. 279 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:17,520 And what I found, which I also kind of liked is that people have come to me for dating advice 280 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:23,920 while they've been single. Like, all right, so what do you think about this app? How do I respond 281 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:30,240 to this message? What's a good date idea? And I kind of like being that person that people are 282 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:37,120 coming to for the advice and for the ideas. And do you think this is a transition for you to become 283 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:45,520 a dating coach? Oh, God, I don't know. I thought about that a little bit. I would like to get paid 284 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:53,360 for it. That would be nice. Pay me for my advice. Okay, so maybe maybe you become a dating coach, 285 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:59,440 and that will be the end result from, you know, you've got the experience building out 286 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:06,720 as the host of a podcast, which is how it all started. Just exploring the podcast for a little bit 287 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:13,120 is quite an interesting area. So, but firstly, are there any from season one that we have put 288 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,640 together? Are there any conversations for you that really stand out as being, I don't know, 289 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,680 like those with the most that you've learned from it, or those you felt the most sort of 290 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:32,560 emotionally connected to? Yeah, Sam's advice to send a voice memo, I think is excellent advice. 291 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:39,040 The day after I had that conversation with him, I put it into a practice and I was on a date 292 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:45,840 that evening or the next evening. And I continued to do it. I would send people voice memos immediately. 293 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:53,280 Hey, this is me. Are you free to meet up? And actually, most people don't send voice memos back, 294 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:59,600 which I also found interesting. But some people just didn't respond. And I thought, okay, if this 295 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:05,840 person can't respond to my actual voice, then never mind anyway, it's not the kind of person I'm 296 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,880 gonna, yeah, want to go. I don't know, for some, there's no match there, right? There's something 297 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,840 if people can't my friends know this, I send voice memos. A lot of them have also become voice 298 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:23,040 memo senders. You're welcome. Thank you. It's great. But that was one piece of advice that really, 299 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,880 I think, like he said, it can save you a lot of time. You can tell a lot about a person by 300 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,080 how they speak and what they say and, you know, do they take the time to respond to what you've 301 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:39,200 said? Have they listened to what you said? And that, yeah, that is one that really sticks out. 302 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,320 I think Sam, Sam was also one of the first conversations we had of somebody who opened up 303 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:51,120 about how much the dating world can suck. Definitely. I found that quite an interesting 304 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:57,280 angle and I could hear a different tone in your own in in your own questioning when speaking to him, 305 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:03,600 because of his own situation was a bit sad. Yeah, that was the first conversation. And I think, 306 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,280 arguably, the the rawest conversation because of the context in which it was had, 307 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:16,560 it just gotten off the phone. And I thought, oh, this is this is special. You know, this is unique. 308 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,200 I mean, we've had this conversation planned to be recorded for a week or two ahead of time. 309 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,760 And this is something that has just happened. Let's explore this here and now. And I think it 310 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:34,240 really captured this. Yeah, this sadness and disappointment and frustration with the dating 311 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:41,520 world as someone in your 30s, when, let's say, stereotypically, in many parts of the world, 312 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,440 your friends are partnered up, they do have kids, they do have out they have all these things that 313 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:50,480 you don't have. And I mean, I went through this myself, but I think it was different. It was in 314 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:56,720 my late 20s. I thought, like, fuck, I've got like, I think four or five of our guests said this, 315 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:04,480 like, I've I've failed. Like, why can't I keep a relationship? And it's also very, you know, 316 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,640 egotistical to be like, oh, I mean, relationships take more than one person. If 317 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,560 if you're in a relationship with one person, there's two of you. If there's more people, 318 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:18,560 there's more people. It's just changing tack. Why do you think you're single? 319 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:27,760 I want to be. It's out of choice. Really? Yeah, it's it's a choice. I did. Okay, so 320 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:35,360 when I have a breakup, I my whole life, I have never been a serial monogamous. I do not understand 321 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:46,240 people who are. I think it's very important to take time after a relationship, one, to grieve 322 00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:52,000 that relationship, two, to make sure it's really over, three, to think about it. Like, what? 323 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:58,080 Why did that not work? What did I like about that? What did I not like about that? If you were just 324 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:03,120 throwing yourself back into the game, you're just you're lying to yourself, you're distracting, 325 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,680 you're not grieving, there's something, you know, there's like, whatever the fuck it is. I mean, 326 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:14,960 I I don't get it. It's some people serial monogamy works fine. People hop from relationship to 327 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:23,680 relationship. I actually I realize I've totally got this pattern of meeting people when they're not 328 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:29,200 out of relationships yet, but like their relationship is kind of ending. And I meet them and we start 329 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:34,800 hanging out. And then, you know, it's me being like, yo, like, yeah, I like you and this is fun, 330 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:40,880 but you're dating someone. And then the needing to break up with that person before they start 331 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:49,040 dating me. So I do have a type it's serial monogamous. And only children that as well has been a 332 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:54,000 weird pattern that I've had, which neither of those things work for me. And I know that now. 333 00:35:54,560 --> 00:36:00,320 Okay, so you the reason why you're single is because you choose to be single. 334 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:06,480 I'm choosing to be single right now. I have chosen to really take this. I mean, okay, so at the end 335 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,280 of every relationship, I say at least six months. And I've always stuck to that at least six months 336 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:19,120 of being single, recovering, recuperating, taking care of me, signing up for a new course, 337 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:26,720 moving to a new city, whatever I'm doing. But this time around, I think I, not I think this 338 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:34,400 time around, I have chosen to be single because I'm enjoying it in a different way. I am more 339 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:41,200 sure of myself. I feel really happy and saturated with the people in my life, like all my friends. 340 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:48,320 I have such good friends and people here. And I mean, I'm not spending the holidays alone. People 341 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:54,960 invite me. I go to them for Christmas in New Year's and I join their summer vacations. I'm 342 00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:01,280 like the single friend who like one of your kids gonna call me auntie, you know, I hear you. 343 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:10,080 And I believe you. But what's the but? Well, I think, you know, at the same time, you know, 344 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:18,720 I know you and like give me a two plus phrase of this way, why don't you give me a percentage as 345 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:24,160 to how open you are to meeting someone. Now you choose to be single because you know, the answer 346 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:29,040 to why you're single is because you choose to be and you're on decided also now you're not actively 347 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:37,600 dating. Yeah. But you know, if the right person walks in to your work, or you sit on the train or 348 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:45,840 whatever, you know, are you then hey, I'm not dating not interested. No. No, exactly. 50, 50% 349 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:52,560 50% Okay, that's so much higher than I thought you're gonna say. Well, I thought about saying like 350 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:57,760 10 or 25. And then I thought no, because it is 50 50, it's going to be a yes or a no. I'm not 351 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:05,680 shut down. Yeah, people do come into my work and I have been asked on dates at my work. I have 352 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:13,280 regulars who are definitely flirting. I got a guy who Oh God, there's been a few of them. 353 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:21,840 One guy he he still comes in regularly. He's a retired chef. He's a bit older. He clearly has 354 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:28,080 loads of money and time. And he left his number and already got months ago at the beginning of 355 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:33,040 the summer and said, call me when you're ready to go on a date. Our first date will not be in 356 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:39,680 Amsterdam. Wow. Do you know I feel like you want to just, you know, cash that cash that ticket in 357 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,800 just to see what it is. You know, there's there's something in me that's holding me back because 358 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:50,160 this guy comes in once a month easily, you know, we chat he hangs out for half an hour we have a 359 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:55,680 nice conversation. I do like him as a person. The dating there's something stopping me and I've 360 00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:02,240 also learned to listen to your gut. That's the thing. Yeah. So have other guys have other guys 361 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:06,880 given you their number? I'm interested because you know, how do they give you their number? 362 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:12,080 Like, do they write it down and then just slide it across the desk? Yeah, just like leave it on a 363 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:18,320 piece of paper kind of thing, which is a totally different game than with woman, by the way, because 364 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:24,720 guys will do that. They've got the balls to just kind of ask and say and leave their number like 365 00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:30,000 this is for you. Whereas there's this sort of, you know, running joke in the lesbian community 366 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:35,120 that lesbians are useless. People will flirt forever and nobody will ever ask each other out. 367 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,800 People will really like each other and all their friends will know they like each other, but they'll 368 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:45,360 never go on a first date. And it's just so the opposite of even though they both know that 369 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:51,360 there's been so, yeah, is there like, is there like, oh, am I about to cross the Rubicon here with 370 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:57,040 someone who I don't know is actually that way inclined or I do find that difficult. I find it 371 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:02,800 so hard, especially women in the wild. Like there are some women I'm like, yeah, definitely gay. 372 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,880 And then there are some where I'm like, I'm not quite sure. I have definitely been on dates with 373 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,880 women who I thought were gay only for them to tell me like, oh, this is my first day with the woman 374 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:21,600 and I'm like, fuck, like, what's been duped again? So is it a tough question to ask you 375 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:28,400 when your next date is? Because it sounds like the answer to that might be, I don't have one. 376 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:34,640 But as someone who's not dating, when is your next date? Yeah, I don't, I don't have the next date. 377 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:45,360 Wow. I don't know. I really don't know. But you are also, I mean, this has come at a time when 378 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:53,200 you're also planning to be away for a while. So that's true. I am going to take someone out at 379 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:59,680 the end of the month. It's not a date, but I will take them out for an adventure. Okay, why is it 380 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:06,800 not a date? Because dating comes with pressures and expectations. Oh, you are so you are so afraid 381 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:12,560 of putting a label on it. It's not a date. I'm not going to show up in anything other than myself. 382 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:19,440 Yeah, you're too, I think you're too rigid and you're thinking about what date is and what it's 383 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,120 not. And I, you know, you're worried about putting the label on it. I think it's a date. 384 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,640 I don't know that's what it sounds like. Am I am I being unfair? 385 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:33,280 No, but it's, we don't define it as dating. Okay. This is someone who you've seen, 386 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,240 you've just someone who you've seen a few times already. Yeah, yeah, definitely. 387 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,280 But we're not defining it as dating. We are hanging out and we are enjoying each other's 388 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:49,040 company and having fun. And there was a time that, yeah, she took me out and I will take her out. 389 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:59,760 Okay, maybe I'm too linear, but that sounds like dates to me. But then again, what do I know? 390 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,960 If I take my girlfriend out, I would call that a date. 391 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,480 Are you taking her out on a date? You're not taking her out? 392 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:13,280 Well, we would go on a date if we got up for dinner or something like that. I don't know. 393 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:19,840 It's just like, you know, we're going to do something out of the ordinary from our day to day, 394 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:24,160 get back, cook some food, sit on the sofa. But you've got a relationship. 395 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,880 Yeah, but they see, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, but I'm not afraid to call it what it is. 396 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,240 Whereas you, you know, it's this person who's seen several times, I would say, 397 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:40,960 potentially the green shoots of a relationship and you are afraid of slapping, 398 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,240 you're afraid of slapping the date tag on it. 399 00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:46,480 Doing it differently, I'm not afraid. 400 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:51,840 Okay, what about from, from this other person's perspective? How would she view 401 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,240 whatever it is that you got planned in a week or so? 402 00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:56,320 Yeah, as the day that I'm taking her out. 403 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:03,840 And it's a surprise. It's a surprise as well. She doesn't know what's going to happen. I know 404 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,760 what's going to happen. I've got a theme. It's going to be fun. It's going to be an adventure. 405 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:13,760 The day that I'm taking her out. It sounds very close to the definition of what a date might look like. 406 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:20,880 To some people, maybe. But again, I think maybe with dating, maybe this is another difference, 407 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:27,200 that there is, if you're consistently dating someone, there is sort of this intention or 408 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:34,560 expectation that it becomes a relationship. And that is not something that we are doing 409 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:40,880 in, let's say, society's perspective. There is no intention for it to become any sort of 410 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:48,640 like monogamous, couple-y, we're building a life together relationship. That is not where either 411 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:54,160 one of us is at. And so there's no need for that or no expectation for that. And I think 412 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:58,160 that makes it different than the dating that I was doing before, the dating that a lot of our 413 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,400 guests are doing. They're looking for that. They're looking for someone to build a life with, 414 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,960 to build a home with. She has a life. I have a life. She has a home. I'm going to find a home. 415 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,840 You know, these are... Okay, but I see. So if I was to 416 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:25,040 sum up with your thinking there, is it's like dating is what people do on the path to a relationship. 417 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:31,760 Yes, to build something together kind of thing. Yeah, okay. Whereas when you're just... 418 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:38,160 But the process of getting to know someone not on the path to... With a mutual acceptance that 419 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:43,600 this is not on the path to a relationship. Yeah. That you just call it hanging out. 420 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:49,840 It's enjoying each other's company and having fun and trying new things. And I think there is a 421 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:56,320 difference there. And I'm curious also, you know, for season two and the guests I talked to, 422 00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:03,120 certainly we're going to get some new perspectives in this next season. And maybe this again is age 423 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:13,040 related. Maybe it's experience related. I'm so curious. So what advice would you like to leave 424 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:21,040 our listeners with? Okay, my first... The first thing that comes up is go for it. Just go for it. 425 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:27,040 If you see someone in the wild, go for it. If you see someone on an app you like, go for it right away. 426 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:33,760 If there's a friend who says, hey, my friend, da, da, da, ask for their number, go for it. I mean, 427 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:40,720 yeah, take the opportunity. I mean, if you don't do anything, you're not going to get anywhere. 428 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:46,720 And if you ask and get a no, you're at the same place you were when you started. And get used to 429 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:51,760 rejection, get comfortable with rejection. The bottom line is not everyone's going to like you. 430 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:56,880 And that's okay because there will be people who really do like you. And it's going to be so nice 431 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,120 when those moments happen. And just like with jobs, you're probably going to get 10 no's for 432 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:16,640 everyone. Yes. So just accept that. Accept failure. But try anyways. 433 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:23,840 This episode of Dating Log was recorded, hosted and produced by me, Harry Dark. Your regular host 434 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:30,800 is Wyndham Juno. Our artwork is in collaboration with Esme Heming from the studio. You can follow 435 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:39,120 us on Instagram at datinglogpodcast. Our website is datinglogpodcast.com. If you'd like to send us 436 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:47,920 a message, slide into our DMs or email us datinglogpodcast.com. Please like and subscribe 437 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:53,120 wherever you listen and look out for more bonus content getting released in the run up to season 438 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:59,440 two. If you enjoy what we do, please leave a review or tell a friend. But above all, please 439 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:05,440 don't ghost us.