1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,240 Welcome to Dating Log, the podcast that records the ups and downs of dating in your 30s. 2 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:24,360 I'm your host, Wyndham Juneau, and this is episode 12, the litmus test of dating. 3 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,660 How do you know when to call it dating? 4 00:00:26,660 --> 00:00:29,840 And how do you know when to call it a relationship? 5 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:35,480 According to my next guest, there are certain litmus tests we can do to determine that. 6 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:41,880 Jimmy gave me my first solid piece of dating advice 15 years ago when we met, which he 7 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,400 shares in this episode as well. 8 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,640 We're also going to talk about what it's like to be dating in a culture that is completely 9 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,360 different than the one you grew up in. 10 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:57,080 By the way, hang around after the episode for an end of season note from me. 11 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:58,080 Enjoy! 12 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,680 Okay, so my name is Jimmie. 13 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:02,680 I live in China. 14 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,920 I've been living here for seven and a half years. 15 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,480 It'll be eight years in April. 16 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:15,480 And I guess recently the way I use the app I use the most to meet people for dates is 17 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:16,520 Tinder. 18 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:21,360 I want to kick off the episode with the general question. 19 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,800 How is dating going for you? 20 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,620 It's not going very much at the moment. 21 00:01:26,620 --> 00:01:31,360 So recently I haven't been doing a lot of dating, but I think that's a little bit more 22 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,320 just about where I am in my life. 23 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:42,000 And also the fact that dating in my city, even like we're a small Chinese city, even 24 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:47,840 though our population is around four or four and a half million, a lot of the women I end 25 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:54,720 up connecting with on Tinder are either in cities like Nanjing or Suzhou or Shanghai, 26 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,360 which are nearby cities. 27 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,480 They're a little bit more internationally minded. 28 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:05,560 So like a lot of the women I come across on Tinder generally have lived abroad or studied 29 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,160 abroad at a university for some time. 30 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,280 So I think that's why they tend to be on Tinder. 31 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:16,480 But also sometimes it can be a little hard dating here because of cultural differences. 32 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,840 But yeah, recently not a lot of action. 33 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:25,380 This is a podcast about dating in your 30s and beyond, how your experience dating in 34 00:02:25,380 --> 00:02:30,300 China has been, let's say since you've been 30, because I do know that you have been dating 35 00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:33,420 and we're dating for quite a while and we'll get to why you're not dating. 36 00:02:33,420 --> 00:02:35,360 But first tell us about that. 37 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,280 So how would I characterize it? 38 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:42,360 I guess like dating life and sex life is pretty good, but having a love life is a little bit 39 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:43,360 harder. 40 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:44,360 How so? 41 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:50,200 Well, it's been more casual relationships than like serious ones and it's very hard 42 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:58,040 because either you date girls in other cities or if you date girls here, there's basically 43 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:03,440 two types of dating that I've experienced, which is girls who are from outside of the 44 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,020 city who live here. 45 00:03:05,020 --> 00:03:07,440 And generally that's a lot easier. 46 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:13,080 Whereas girls who live here, especially if they live with family, which is pretty common 47 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:18,160 for most people until they're married, unless they live in a different city or they have 48 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:25,040 a good amount of money, is harder because you'll be out at a bar or on a date and around 49 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:30,000 anywhere from like nine to 11 o'clock girls will start getting calls from their mothers 50 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,080 or from their fathers being like, where are you? 51 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:33,440 What are you doing? 52 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:34,440 Who are you with? 53 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,160 When are you coming home? 54 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:43,060 Because there's a bigger push to get married here at a younger age because getting married 55 00:03:43,060 --> 00:03:51,080 over here, not always, but in general is a lot more focused on two families becoming 56 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,120 one family rather than two people being in love. 57 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:02,960 So a lot of the compatibility of marriage comes with like, do the families approve? 58 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:08,600 And generally what type of financial situation? 59 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:15,520 And sometimes there's still like a wedding price where a man will pay a price to a family 60 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:23,480 or give like a kind of exorbitant gift or like have to put down a deposit on a house 61 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,200 or a home and the woman's parents have to approve of that. 62 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:34,520 How is that for you to be dating, let's say locals, people who live there, knowing that 63 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:39,560 there are these expectations or ideals around relationships and dating? 64 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:45,720 Well that's one of the difficulties of finding someone compatible is because I'm really not 65 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,720 interested in trying to live up to those expectations or those traditions. 66 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:56,520 Because like even in America, I want to consider myself a very traditional person, but especially 67 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,720 here it's a lot harder. 68 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:05,000 So sometimes you know that relationships have a bit of an expiration date on them. 69 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:11,800 And as well, like when you meet women who are more independently minded, they're not 70 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,620 as maybe interested in a long-term thing. 71 00:05:14,620 --> 00:05:21,060 Or if you meet women who are more traditional, it's a lot easier to have a very fleeting 72 00:05:21,060 --> 00:05:26,760 relationship that's mostly kind of, I would say romantic sexual. 73 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,800 Where like there is a bit of romance, but a lot of it's about sex because they know 74 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:37,520 that because you're not from inside their community, it's not going to get back to people 75 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:38,760 that they know. 76 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:45,760 No one's ever going to find out about this short dalliance that they had with some foreign 77 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:46,760 dude. 78 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:55,440 Yeah, I think the last two years, almost every girl I've dated has been in another city nearby. 79 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:00,320 They're just, it tends to be a little bit more easy. 80 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:05,440 It tends to like in some ways because you don't know these people, no one else knows 81 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:06,440 them. 82 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,040 So you kind of start off with a fresh blank slate. 83 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:11,720 How do you define dating? 84 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,920 You know, going out where you know that there's something more than friends, that there's 85 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:21,860 a romantic and a physical attraction and set of possibilities. 86 00:06:21,860 --> 00:06:28,920 And then I think the difference between like a few dates in dating is then like when you 87 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:36,120 and that person check in on a, you know, at least a two to three day basis and you clear 88 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,240 weekend plans before you make weekend plans with someone else. 89 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,840 Like I would kind of define that as like one of the litmus tests of dating of like, oh 90 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:46,280 well Friday I'm going to go out with friends, but what are you doing Saturday? 91 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:47,960 Oh well then how about Sunday? 92 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,480 We get together at this time and it's like kind of implied that you're going to try and 93 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:57,200 see each other at least once a weekend or once a week when you're both not at work. 94 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,600 Yeah, I like that definition. 95 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:05,120 Yeah I feel like that's a very like Seinfeld kind of definition where they sit around it's 96 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:06,800 like, oh can I do the phone break up? 97 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,480 And it's like how many dates is, do you have a tampon in your apartment? 98 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,440 Oh well then you've got a girlfriend. 99 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:18,840 And so I kind of feel like if it's like, oh do you check with someone else before you 100 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:24,800 make weekend plans and like figure out when's their free time before you solidify the other 101 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,600 weekend plans you might have with friends. 102 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,680 So I think, I mean it's, and it's also like, you know, a lot of people are kind of commitment 103 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,560 foes and they don't want to put labels on things. 104 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:38,520 So I kind of think it's very healthy to think of relationships in certain ways. 105 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,760 Like you know, I've been learning Chinese and I teach English so I think a lot about 106 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:47,200 language learning and there's a real debate of like, how do you define fluency? 107 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,160 And some people are like, oh if you can do this test or you've spent this much time, 108 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:56,120 but then there are, there's other ideas of like, can you go in the language you're learning 109 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,940 to one of their supermarkets and write out a handwritten list of groceries you need in 110 00:08:00,940 --> 00:08:03,720 that language and ask someone in the store. 111 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,520 So like it's, so I think there's like certain, what are your habit qualifications? 112 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:15,120 So I think dating and relationships are based a lot more on habit than just like what you 113 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,280 say is like your status. 114 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:24,720 Do you think there are other litmus tests of when a dating becomes a relationship? 115 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:25,720 That's a good question. 116 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,640 Where, when does dating go into relationship? 117 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:32,160 Cause I mean, dating itself is a form of a relationship, but I know what you mean. 118 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:38,480 I think maybe too, when you and your partner have a discussion about exclusivity and when 119 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:48,360 you guys decide that you have a very defined set of boundaries of what type of relationships 120 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:54,480 you have with other people that are beyond friendship are acceptable and unacceptable. 121 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:59,200 Like one for me is I've had girlfriends live with me in China. 122 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,480 So the last time that happened was probably about four years ago. 123 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:09,200 It's probably about 30, 31 and I invited my girlfriend at that time to live with me. 124 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:15,360 But one of the boundaries of the relationship was like, Hey, if you move in, I had an apartment 125 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:16,360 with four bedrooms. 126 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,520 I'm like, your bedroom is not my bedroom. 127 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,440 And it's not that we, we can't sleep together on a regular basis, but if you're going to 128 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,440 be here, then I want you to have your own space. 129 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,840 I'm going to pay for the apartment in full. 130 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,020 You don't have to pay rent because I'm paying for the space anyway. 131 00:09:33,020 --> 00:09:36,400 So you moving in isn't an extra expense. 132 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,240 But the thing for me was like, I want you to have a place where like you can close the 133 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,900 door or like if we also had different weekends. 134 00:09:44,900 --> 00:09:49,880 So at that time I used to work on Saturday and Sundays and my Mondays and Tuesdays or 135 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,160 Tuesdays and Wednesdays were my day off. 136 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:57,080 So like if I went out with friends, especially work friends, it was usually Sunday or Monday 137 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,080 nights. 138 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,680 She worked Monday through Friday. 139 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:02,120 So I was like, look, some of this is also really practical. 140 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,800 Do you really want me coming home at like 3 30 in the morning after being shit house 141 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,200 drunk with my buddies and like get into bed with you when you're going to wake up in four 142 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,440 hours and go to work. 143 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,680 And the other thing is like, look, I want you to have your space because I don't want 144 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:19,200 you to feel trapped or locked in. 145 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,840 If we're going to be together, then I want you to choose me and I want you to like have 146 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:30,480 the freedom to have your own space, have a door in the place where like I will give you 147 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,800 the respect of your privacy and knock on the door. 148 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,360 But I also want that too. 149 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,280 I like I want to be able to like curl up in my bedroom. 150 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,600 Like if you're living here, if you want to have friends over, like I want like my room 151 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:47,080 that I can go to and have my own space and like be my own person. 152 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,120 So I think when I get to that point, I know I'm in a relationship. 153 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,880 You said the word commitment folk. 154 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,140 What is your relationship with that word? 155 00:10:57,140 --> 00:10:58,240 My relationship with it. 156 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:06,200 I guess I could probably be described as a little bit commitment phobic, but I don't 157 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,080 personally think I am. 158 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:17,120 I think I'm just much more down to earth and realistic about things and about like that 159 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,160 life is kind of weird and life is long and like finding someone that you're in love with 160 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,720 and you're going to spend time with isn't necessarily just about the right person, but 161 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,120 also about like the right time in the right place in your life. 162 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,720 Because I've met people who like I've had insane chemistry and attraction to, but the 163 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:40,460 circumstances of our life just make it gruelingly difficult. 164 00:11:40,460 --> 00:11:45,420 And that's not something I at times have been okay for. 165 00:11:45,420 --> 00:11:48,680 And then the other times when I've been like, no, I'm down for that sacrifice. 166 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:52,040 They'd be like, I'm not. 167 00:11:52,040 --> 00:12:02,840 So I don't think I'm particularly commitment phobic, but I've only really had two relationships 168 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,360 that have gone past the 10 month mark. 169 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:11,280 Yeah, I don't think I'm very commitment phobic, but I think it's very, very hard to find people 170 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:18,520 where you can tolerate a lot of the more mundane and boring parts of relationship with. 171 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:23,400 There's a lot of people I've dated who like we can go out and have a lot of exciting fun 172 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:30,200 and be with friends and go to bars and go to nice restaurants and go to a fun location 173 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:35,220 or like a little weekend trip and getaway, but then spending Friday through Sunday just 174 00:12:35,220 --> 00:12:39,900 at home in the apartment doing nothing tends to drive. 175 00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:45,800 I found it tends to drive the people I'm with more nuts, which then drives me a little bit 176 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,440 more nuts. 177 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:53,720 I'm pretty okay with being in the same room with someone all day long and barely talking 178 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:54,720 to them. 179 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,200 I find a lot of comfort in that, but I find that for other people sometimes, and especially 180 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:04,800 in dating, that it can sometimes freak people out a little bit because they're like, why 181 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:05,800 are you saying? 182 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:06,800 You don't want me to be here? 183 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:07,800 You don't want this? 184 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:08,800 No, I do. 185 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,960 Just like, I don't know, I'm reading a book, playing my video game. 186 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,200 What are you doing? 187 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,800 What is it that you've been looking for while you're dating? 188 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,480 I guess the thing is, I don't... Okay, I guess there's two answers to that. 189 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,880 I guess the one is trying not to look too hard. 190 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:32,080 There's a show, I might ostracize myself from some people listening, but there's a great 191 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:37,000 Louis CK show that he did right before he got Me Too that if he hadn't of been Me Too, 192 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,720 it would have been a lot more famous, but it's like a piece of American theater. 193 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,040 It's amazing. 194 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,600 It's called Horse and Peets, but there's this one episode and it's in a bar. 195 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:52,080 This one character after this bad date, blah, blah, she's talking there how she can't just 196 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,440 find love and blah, blah, and the one character is like, you can't find love. 197 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,800 He's like, I was an actor for years, but I couldn't do pratfalls. 198 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,660 I couldn't fall and make it look real because falling is supposed to be an accident. 199 00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:07,060 You can't try to fall. 200 00:14:07,060 --> 00:14:08,280 It's just not the same. 201 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,480 He's like, and that's why they call it falling in love. 202 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,960 You can't try and find love. 203 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,760 It has to happen to you. 204 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:23,600 I think I'm very cautious of overly looking or setting myself up for a goal of having 205 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,480 a relationship. 206 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,760 Maybe I'm a little bit more that way because in China, it's a big thing of get a relationship, 207 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,680 get married, have a kid, and then all of a sudden you have free time. 208 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:38,080 I think that's also why a lot of people step out of their relationships after they're married 209 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,680 here because it's the first time in their life that no one's bothering them and they 210 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,040 have a certain amount of independence, but that's a bit of a different topic. 211 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:55,120 I guess what I look for in a relationship is someone who wants to share their life and 212 00:14:55,120 --> 00:15:03,560 have my life share with them, share our time, but that respects the idea and doesn't want 213 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:08,960 my time or their time to only be our time. 214 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:14,040 That there's a certain level of independence on both sides and that there's a certain amount 215 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:19,080 of self-preservation involved. 216 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:26,640 I think it's a little bit irresponsible maybe and a little bit wrong to love someone fully, 217 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:33,720 fully because imagine if you really love someone and they really love you and then some terrible 218 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,280 accident befalls them or befalls you. 219 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,640 What would you want for that person? 220 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:44,800 Would you want them to be so connected and so strongly bound to you that it would be 221 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,200 like a crippling injury and that they would no longer be able to function? 222 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:50,200 I don't think so. 223 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:55,160 I think you would really want them to be able to continue to be the person that you've always 224 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,960 loved and cared about and admired. 225 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,800 Of course, I think everyone wants everyone else to be a little bit sad for them when 226 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:08,880 we lose something and be sympathetic to us, but I also think it's a little bit selfish 227 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:18,440 to want someone to fully have to take on your feelings of loneliness or to be completely 228 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,200 dedicated to you. 229 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:27,360 The way that emperors in olden days would have slaves buried with them. 230 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,840 I wouldn't want to trap someone in. 231 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,120 I guess I look for partner. 232 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:34,120 I look for a woman. 233 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:41,120 I'm a heterosexual guy and I look for a woman who's pretty independent and who is interesting 234 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,120 and who I feel we have an equal partnership with. 235 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:52,440 I think having a feeling of equality and equity in the relationship is a really vital thing 236 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,760 for me because I feel like if there's nothing I can offer or there's something that someone 237 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:05,400 else can't offer where we fill a little open slot, kind of like a jigsaw puzzle, then the 238 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:10,920 relationship seems a little bit mismatched to continue to go with that jigsaw puzzle 239 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:11,920 thing. 240 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:17,920 Because if someone contributes and makes your life better, then I think of course you would... 241 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,280 It's like having a job where you're no good, but you can just get away with it. 242 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:26,000 Some people will go for that, but I think a lot of people, generally, they get tired 243 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:32,400 and they'll leave a job like that because there's no satisfaction of being able to contribute 244 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,640 to the company and the culture. 245 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,480 Camping out in someone's life, I don't think is a very nice feeling. 246 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,080 Camping out in someone's life. 247 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,840 I've met people who've done this for years or I meet people who just completely lose 248 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,680 any sense of their independence and spend all their time together. 249 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:51,680 There was a couple who... 250 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,760 I worked in an English training center for a long time and I'm still friends with a lot 251 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,920 of those people even though that school no longer exists. 252 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,560 We had this one married couple from America come. 253 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,800 One day we were talking to the guy, Matt, the names were Chris and Matt, and we were 254 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,960 like, Matt, do you ever spend any time by yourself? 255 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,680 He's like, well, sometimes when Chris and I go to the gym, I'm on the treadmill while 256 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,400 she's lifting weights. 257 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,400 We're like, oh, Jesus. 258 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,640 Wow, cool. 259 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:19,640 We were all very polite to him. 260 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,560 He was a coworker, he was a nice guy, but me and a couple of my friends were like, oh 261 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:24,800 my God. 262 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,760 That's something for you then. 263 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:27,760 No. 264 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,280 Actually, I guess one of my goals is... 265 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:36,640 This is going to sound really stupid, but I think a really good litmus test or a really 266 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:43,480 good proof for love and comfort and companionship with someone is when you're having a really 267 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,840 good time by yourself in many different situations, whether it's with other people, whether you're 268 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:53,600 on the couch watching TV, if you're traveling, and you think, wow, this is so nice. 269 00:18:53,600 --> 00:19:02,520 I'm so at peace right now, but if I had this other person with me, it wouldn't disturb. 270 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,240 It would only enhance this. 271 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,880 That's a nice way to think about it. 272 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:12,640 Why do you think you haven't found this yet, what you're looking for? 273 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:19,960 My thing is I guess in one way, like I was saying before, I'm not super looking for something. 274 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,840 I'd rather have something happen and be like, oh my gosh. 275 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:29,680 I am on Tinder and I've been flipping through recently, but sometimes I'll flip through 276 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:36,040 and I'll just be like, ugh, and I just close out a little bit and like, ugh, this is torture. 277 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,040 This is no fun. 278 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:42,240 Other times, I sit there and I'm like, ooh, maybe, ooh, maybe. 279 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:51,160 Sometimes I have a sliding scale of optimism and pessimism, but I think I've had some relationships 280 00:19:51,160 --> 00:20:00,240 in the past that in hindsight could have been, but I think they weren't because it wasn't 281 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,400 the right time and place. 282 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:10,120 I think maybe at my core, I'm the same person, but I think maybe I hadn't developed certain 283 00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:15,600 parts of me to be able to identify and hold on to those relationships. 284 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,280 But then it's a little bit like trying to get a genie back in a bottle thinking that 285 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,280 way. 286 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:25,960 Because also, who are they now and what priorities have shifted in their life? 287 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,480 And sometimes you think, oh, if I could only meet up back with this person again, but of 288 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,760 course you can never go in the same river twice. 289 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,840 I think also because I've been here seven and a half years, when I first came to China, 290 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,320 my plan was to be there at least a year, probably two. 291 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,320 And then after being here about four months, I was like, all right, I'm going to be here 292 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,800 three years. 293 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,360 And then it just kind of continually rolled on. 294 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,600 So now I'm thinking it's probably going to be, this will probably be my last year. 295 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,720 I think I'm going to be moving in July. 296 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:59,080 I don't have a lot keeping me here beyond the fact that I enjoy China and I enjoy learning 297 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,080 Chinese. 298 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,440 So I think also at certain times in my time here where I've met someone where I think 299 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:11,120 there maybe was real potential to have a longer relationship, I think part of the practicality 300 00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:12,840 in me held me back. 301 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,520 And also the honesty in me. 302 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,080 I really don't like leading people on. 303 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:26,000 That was a bad habit I was into more in college and maybe in the early 20s. 304 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:32,440 And I saw myself hurting some people and I felt a lot of guilt and I did a lot of reflection. 305 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,300 And it's hard not to. 306 00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:38,040 When you really like someone and you want them in your life, it's very hard to sometimes 307 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:46,600 be fully honest with them when you know that it might mean that it gives them a way out. 308 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:51,200 But I don't know, I guess the big thing in some ways is I'm just very quick to figure 309 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:58,600 out like, hey, this is fun, but I don't think it's going anywhere super long term. 310 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,300 So that's how I feel. 311 00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:01,300 How do you feel? 312 00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:06,220 If you're down for just spending a lot of time together and having fun, then let's do 313 00:22:06,220 --> 00:22:08,740 it and let's enjoy the time we have. 314 00:22:08,740 --> 00:22:10,760 But I don't know where I'm going to be next year. 315 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,720 I don't know what I'm going to do. 316 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,960 Because also living here, you have a year by year contract and residence permit and 317 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,000 ability to legally stay. 318 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,920 So sometimes planning longer. 319 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:29,520 And again, I think maybe in another country, I might have, like if I was in America, I 320 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,560 might be in a long term relationship. 321 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:37,400 But here, like women are a lot of women who are single, not all of them, but quite a few 322 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,560 are like, hey, I've got these long term plans. 323 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:41,560 I'm looking for marriage. 324 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:42,560 I'm looking for this. 325 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:48,560 Or like I dated one girl, one of the ones who maybe could have been, and we dated kind 326 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:53,840 of on and off, not completely monogamously, not completely committed. 327 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,240 And we were open about that. 328 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,880 But we were together about two years. 329 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,760 So that would have actually been the longest relationship. 330 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,960 And she was a girl I worked with. 331 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,560 She was my teacher assistant at work. 332 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,680 And so that was also a little bit of dangerous boundary. 333 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,920 But that, it worked out well for a couple not great reasons. 334 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:20,920 Well, I guess they're not bad reasons, but they're a little bit unusual reasons. 335 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,000 I was, let me think about it. 336 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,040 I was probably about six, seven years older than her. 337 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,040 Probably like after maybe about a year, a year and a half together, we were saying, 338 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,640 I love you on a regular basis. 339 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,480 We were really close. 340 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,680 At one point when we got really emotionally more committed, she was like, look, you got 341 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:43,080 to realize at some point I'm going to move back to my hometown and marry a Chinese guy. 342 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:48,840 This relationship is never going to go beyond another year because I would never, I would 343 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:54,480 never marry you because my family and my parents and being close to them and giving them a 344 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,960 home that they would understand and the type of thing that they expected me is really important. 345 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:04,240 And like, I get to pick my guy and I'm going to pick a guy who makes me happy, but you 346 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,120 don't meet one of the big requirements, which is being Chinese and from my hometown. 347 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:11,280 And you don't want to live and stay here forever. 348 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,120 She's like, I would never move to America. 349 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:16,680 I would never, if we were to have a kid, I wouldn't want him to go to school in America. 350 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,800 I would only want him to go to school in China. 351 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,640 So, and like, but I respected her because of that, because I was like, okay, that's, 352 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,640 that's cool. 353 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,240 I'm very okay with that. 354 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,440 I'm comfortable with that. 355 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:28,720 Let's enjoy the time we've had. 356 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:35,560 So I guess that's, that's a long winded bunch of reasons why I've been not in a long term 357 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,040 committed relationship since I've been here. 358 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,880 At the beginning of our conversation, you said you're not dating right now. 359 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:48,800 Can you tell me about that process and why are you not dating and what does that exactly 360 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:49,800 mean? 361 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:56,440 So it's not that I'm making a decision, I'm not like, I need to abstain from this or that, 362 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:03,440 but I've also, I think where it's like maybe a few years ago and in the past where I've 363 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:09,800 been more okay having casual fun, looking more for physical and sexual relationships 364 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,120 and short term short lived things. 365 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:13,920 I think I'm a little bit tired of that. 366 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,640 I feel like I'm a little bit burnt out here in China. 367 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,120 So that's one of the reasons why this is going to be one of my last years here. 368 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:26,000 So I have a little bit of burnout fatigue and for the most part, like when I've had 369 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:31,800 opportunities or meetups or like women to chase after, to try and make something happen, 370 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,280 I'm almost tired before I even began. 371 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,700 I'm like, ugh, what a, what trouble, ugh, who needs it? 372 00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:44,600 It feels like the opportunities I've had to date or on Tinder have felt a little bit like 373 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,440 playing a game or like trying to win an elect, like if I went after those girls, it'd be 374 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:55,480 more like trying to win an election instead of like doing the job because there's no better 375 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:56,480 candidate. 376 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:02,440 Like, I don't know if that makes sense, but I just, I just feel like unless it's very 377 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:07,560 upfront, like, hey, we might just hook up this one time and that might just be it, then 378 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,480 it's not cool to do. 379 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,040 And especially like on Tinder and stuff, like a lot of the girls were like, no one night 380 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,640 stands, not looking for a hookup, interested in a relationship, things like that. 381 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:24,080 And so I'm like, okay, well I'm not, so let me, you know, I'm not going to lie to someone. 382 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,240 What do you find the most frustrating about dating? 383 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,200 I guess the first smartest answer that comes to mind is texting. 384 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,840 I really fucking hate that at times. 385 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:32,840 Yeah. 386 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,920 I, I don't like playing the phone game a lot. 387 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,240 And then I think I know I can be a frustrating person. 388 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:44,240 But sometimes myself is one of the most frustrating parts because sometimes I can like hear voices 389 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,600 back in my head like, oh, just let it go. 390 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:46,600 It's not a big deal. 391 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,920 And like, I just fucking open my mouth anyway. 392 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,960 And I'm like, you idiot. 393 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,760 And even though I'm in my head being like, this is stupid. 394 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,000 None of this matters. 395 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,500 I just like can't help but scratch the mosquito bite. 396 00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:01,280 So I can be frustrating. 397 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,380 But I think, I think to just like having, like, I think I've had my heart broken quite 398 00:27:06,380 --> 00:27:11,600 a few times before and I've experienced quite a bit of loss in my life. 399 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,320 So like a lot of things I think that like come with like stupid arguments and problems 400 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,840 in relationships, I don't have a lot of patience for, I don't have a lot of patience for like 401 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,240 a lot of petty shit. 402 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:28,360 I don't know where you are on like the scale of how much it bothers you when someone chews 403 00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:29,760 with their mouth open. 404 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,600 In China, like it happens a lot more. 405 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,200 I don't mind it at restaurants and like in eating at tables, especially in big groups. 406 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,600 But I was dating this girl kind of on and off and we were at my house, we were watching 407 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,160 a movie and she was chewing gum. 408 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,160 It's just the two of us. 409 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:48,400 And we're watching a movie and she's just like, I was like, look, I'm not upset or blah, 410 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:49,400 blah, blah. 411 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,400 I was like very like, be cool. 412 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,000 Don't be, don't just fucking say the first thing in your head. 413 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,640 You're going to sound bad if you do. 414 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,520 I was like, look, babe, I, I adore you very much. 415 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,840 But like, you're just chewing your mouth open. 416 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:02,840 It's just killing me. 417 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,000 Can you, can you please, can you please not do that? 418 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,800 And anyway, it was fine and it wasn't a big deal. 419 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,520 And then like later on, like our relationship, the rough patch and she was like, I just don't 420 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,280 feel free when I'm with you. 421 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,200 And I'm like, what do you mean you don't feel free? 422 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:18,760 She's like, you're very controlling. 423 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,000 You're like, give me an example. 424 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,680 And she's like, well, like that time when I was chewing gum with my mouth open, like 425 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,000 who cares if I chew with my mouth open, I felt very controlled. 426 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,200 And I was just like, really? 427 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,200 That's your death. 428 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,280 So then I was like, that's your definition of control. 429 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:37,920 So that didn't go well. 430 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,680 Or like her other example was like, she was like, when I'm at your house and you cook 431 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,960 and I do the dishes, you insist that I use hot water to wash the dishes. 432 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,960 And I'm like, well, what, how is that a complaint that you have? 433 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,240 And so I find sometimes when people have like little like things like that, that can be 434 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,920 hard for me in a relationship of just like, and I guess that's like, when you know you're 435 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:07,240 like really in a relationship you love is like when you like the person more than your 436 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,600 threshold of like being annoyed by them and being annoyed and having stupid arguments 437 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,880 over silly shit is better. 438 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:15,880 Another litmus test. 439 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,560 Yeah, it really is. 440 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,880 And I think also like when you can kind of be a little bit of that unreasonable person 441 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,660 making a case about something and the person can like go with it and then give you shit 442 00:29:28,660 --> 00:29:31,440 about it later, but not make you feel bad about it. 443 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,240 So the thing is like, I don't feel bad about telling that girl like to like chew with her 444 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:41,800 mouth open, but I felt bad when she told me that later that she felt that way. 445 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:47,020 Because like when I when I've had people like friends or relationships where I get made 446 00:29:47,020 --> 00:29:52,600 fun of for being unreasonable at certain times, I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah, I was being reasonable. 447 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,440 And the fact that she felt really strongly about it makes me feel like, okay, then this 448 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,160 is something else in the gum chewing. 449 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,840 This is indicative of some other type of insecurity. 450 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:10,120 And I feel bad that like she couldn't be more open or in touch about that insecurity with 451 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,840 me because it's like, who the fuck cares if you chew with your mouth open or not? 452 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,080 And like if someone's like, do you mind? 453 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,080 You know what I mean? 454 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,480 Like, yeah, it bothers you for like 10 seconds. 455 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaking of insecurities, do you have any insecurities when it comes to dating? 456 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,000 Oh, absolutely. 457 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,000 You know, of all varieties. 458 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,840 But I think I generally do a pretty good job at hiding them. 459 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,560 And I think sometimes hiding like it's a little bit that fake it till you make it. 460 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,280 I think sometimes you can like fake your way of getting over insecurities. 461 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,560 And I think also to like, insecurities can come back up. 462 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,760 Like I'm I'm a pretty short guy. 463 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,600 I'm not very tall. 464 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,300 And I've definitely felt sometimes insecure about my height at times. 465 00:30:47,300 --> 00:30:51,020 And like I'll go through periods of like, I'll go through sometimes years where it never 466 00:30:51,020 --> 00:30:57,280 bothers me and then maybe like one night or one environment or a social situation. 467 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:02,200 It like it could come up in a way that is completely unreasonable. 468 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,000 I think sometimes with dating, like I think also the other thing is like whenever I've 469 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:12,520 had like a real anxiety or insecurity, especially about like fidelity or being able to trust 470 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,680 someone, usually that's when I get out of a relationship because I feel like if you 471 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:21,800 have an insecurity like that, when it's in a relationship that's not long term and very 472 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:27,640 committed and that like it doesn't feel like being worked through, it's a red flag. 473 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:32,960 And if it's a red flag, then you know, like red flags mean there's something up ahead 474 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,440 that's bad news. 475 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:43,600 And I also am kind of the mindset, you can't really fix someone. 476 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,840 And you can't help someone who doesn't invite you to help them. 477 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,360 You know what I mean? 478 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:56,120 Like I sometimes go through a bit of depression and I had a relationship where this girl was 479 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,880 like, what's wrong? 480 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:58,880 What's bothering you? 481 00:31:58,880 --> 00:31:59,880 Well, why? 482 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:00,880 Let's talk it out. 483 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:01,880 And I'm like, I don't want to. 484 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,840 I'm like, if it's raining outside, do you think there's something wrong with the outdoors? 485 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,280 Do you have to fix the weather? 486 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,660 Like sometimes I just kind of feel sad and I'd rather you just be like, yeah, that kind 487 00:32:12,660 --> 00:32:13,660 of sucks, man. 488 00:32:13,660 --> 00:32:17,840 Like, but like, well, why don't we go grab a drink? 489 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,640 Why don't we go do this thing instead of like you sitting here and harping me about it? 490 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,160 Or like, you know, I'm still an on and off against smoker. 491 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:32,040 And one of the worst things like to kind of tell smokers like, why don't you just quit? 492 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:38,320 It's like, oh, geez, I wish who would have thought of that? 493 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:39,940 You know? 494 00:32:39,940 --> 00:32:46,160 So I think sometimes I get, there's that sometimes I feel like insecure of like, and I think 495 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,400 usually it's another red flag of maybe it's not a good relationship to be in, of whether 496 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,760 or not you make someone happy. 497 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,240 Because I think if you really make someone happy, it's kind of self evident. 498 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,960 And so sometimes like if you have insecurities about it, unless you know that there's maybe 499 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:09,360 a deeper root, and this is where it's manifesting, then may maybe it's a different type of insecurity. 500 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,480 I've had like, you know, and you have jealousies. 501 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:19,040 And I think sometimes we all compare ourselves to like, you know, someone's previous partners 502 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,520 or lovers or like, I think men probably, I'm sure women have it, but I think it's in a 503 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:25,520 different way. 504 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,400 Like there's obviously sexual performance anxiety at times. 505 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,880 And like, then there are times where like, you know, you get if things go too well, you 506 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,560 get anxious and you're like, oh, no, am I going to screw it up? 507 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:43,520 So yeah, of course, I get insecure all the time, but I make up for it by just running 508 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:49,240 off at the mouth and talking and acting like I'm the most confident person in the world. 509 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,320 Do you have a next date planned? 510 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:52,320 And when is it? 511 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,640 I do not have a next date plan, but to not be boring. 512 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:05,280 So the last girl I was really dating, I broke up with after the breakup, we stayed very 513 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:11,000 good friends and we communicate a lot and she was like, oh, she's like, you know, after 514 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,280 the breakup, it felt really bad. 515 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:19,120 So like I quit my job and now I'm doing my own work online this last year since, so we 516 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,700 broke up right after Valentine's Day, actually. 517 00:34:21,700 --> 00:34:27,440 So since like late February, she spent the majority of the year traveling. 518 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,440 So she was like in Thailand for a few months because I got back from Thailand. 519 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:31,760 She was like, wow, that sounds amazing. 520 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,880 She went, she went to Chiang Mai and like where we went and stuff and she was like, 521 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:36,880 oh, I love it here. 522 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:37,880 Blah, blah, blah. 523 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:42,080 And then she went to Indonesia and Malaysia and Cambodia. 524 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,080 Then she came back. 525 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,740 Then she just spent two months in Japan and she just came back. 526 00:34:46,740 --> 00:34:48,480 And so her and I have been talking. 527 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:53,840 So I guess like that would be a bit of a date because even when every time like we've broken 528 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,440 up every time we've met up, it's like we're friends now, we're friends now, we're friends 529 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:04,680 now and then we spend three days together going out to romantic restaurants and having 530 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,680 a lot of sex. 531 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,240 And so I don't know, maybe that's in the cards. 532 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:09,800 So that's at least an answer. 533 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,040 That's not, oh, none. 534 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:19,160 And my last question is, do you have any advice or words of wisdom that you want to leave 535 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,160 other listeners with? 536 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,160 Okay. 537 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,160 So I've got one right off the top of my head and I might have a couple other ones, but 538 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,080 one of the best pieces of relationships advice is something my mom gave me. 539 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,040 She actually gave me a couple of good pieces of advice. 540 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:38,800 And one of them was about returning to relationships where something went bad. 541 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:46,080 And her advice was, if your milk has gone sour, why would you put it back in the refrigerator 542 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,160 hoping that it will be better a few days from now? 543 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,520 When things expire, when things go bad, they've gone bad. 544 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:59,920 But I think also the flip side to that wisdom is knowing when maybe things went bad and 545 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:04,960 then also when things just didn't line up. 546 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,560 Because I've been on Tinder dates or I've been on dates with people and then it's like 547 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,600 we've tried to schedule and tried to find a time to have a follow-up date or more dates 548 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:14,600 and it just doesn't work out. 549 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:15,600 It doesn't work out. 550 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:22,520 And then we've bumped into each other down the line and all of a sudden we have a window 551 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:29,840 of freedom, whether it's a weekend or a few months where we get to be together. 552 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,920 And in those situations, it's not like something went bad. 553 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,480 It's that things didn't line up and maybe this time around you just have that short 554 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,720 little window of opportunity. 555 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:47,200 So I think also sometimes it's not always bad to be in a relationship that has an expiration 556 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,200 date. 557 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:56,640 But some of the people who've continued to be lifelong friends and real sources of support 558 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:02,960 and emotional intimacy and good advice and who've been able to tell me things that I 559 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,680 haven't wanted to hear have been short-term relationships where we know by nature of our 560 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:13,520 own lives that we're going in different directions, but maybe like kind of two ships that then 561 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,200 go different channels. 562 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,920 There's a certain amount of time that we did get to have together and we decided to be 563 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,960 very honest about the fact that it wouldn't be forever and we had a really good time and 564 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,000 we've stayed correspondently close. 565 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,160 But also in those situations, there's been some mutual friends and things like that. 566 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:37,560 So sometimes life is weird and good relationships and love isn't always a traditional or a linear 567 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:38,800 process. 568 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:46,320 I guess the advice is don't be afraid to be irregular, to be non-atypical even in your 569 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,360 relationships. 570 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,440 I think that if you're comfortable accepting it and the other person is then go for it. 571 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:53,440 Life is short. 572 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,920 You should have those moments while you know you can. 573 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:02,120 And I guess my last piece of advice, and I'll leave it open-ended because I think it's one 574 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:12,720 for people to figure out their own, is sometimes loving someone means being sad. 575 00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:18,200 It means sometimes maybe not being in someone's life. 576 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,400 And I think that's okay. 577 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:26,040 I think a big part of love is the sadness that comes from things not working out. 578 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,840 And instead of trying to always escape it, it's like a rainy season. 579 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:39,520 Make the best of your time even if it's raining. 580 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:40,600 All right, y'all. 581 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,400 That is a wrap for season one. 582 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,400 Thank you for your positive feedback. 583 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,760 Thank you for your five-star reviews. 584 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,480 Thanks for liking, subscribing, for sharing the episodes. 585 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,360 Thanks to all my guests for being guinea pigs in this new adventure. 586 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,040 And thank you, Harry, for your producing skills. 587 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,840 It's been so much fun working together, which by the way, folks, Harry and I have had a 588 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,800 blast making this podcast these last six months. 589 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,240 And we are planning to come back with season two in the new year. 590 00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:15,340 If you'd like to share your experiences with dating or you know someone who'd be perfect 591 00:39:15,340 --> 00:39:18,400 for us to chat with, please get in touch. 592 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,440 You can slide into our DMs on Instagram at datinglogpodcast. 593 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,720 You can email us at datinglogpodcast at gmail.com. 594 00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:29,560 Also, there's a form on the website you can use. 595 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,600 Make sure to subscribe, like, share with your single friends, share with your dating friends, 596 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:40,300 share with your colleagues, and also keep an eye on your feed because we will be releasing 597 00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:42,680 some bonus content in the coming months. 598 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:57,920 And if you're lucky, you might even get to hear about my dating life.