Welcome to Dating Log, the podcast that records the ups and downs of dating in your 30s.
I'm your host, Wyndham Juneau, and this is episode 11, Not Sacrificing the Single Life.
Jamie is a guy who has been exclusively dating in his 30s and as an expat. In this episode,
we talk about how breakups and short relationships are all a part of the dating cycle. And we ask a
big question. Does getting into a relationship have to mean giving up all the great things
about being single? Listen to find out what he thinks.
Okay, I'm Jamie, I'm 37 years old. I live in Amsterdam. I'm heterosexual. And yeah,
I've been, I started dating mostly after my 30s, to be honest. I think in the first part of my life,
I was very focused on partying. And also there was more of the scene in the city where I grew
up in in Brazil. And yeah, it has been an interesting journey in this for me. And I
feel learned a lot the past couple of years. So an interesting journey.
No, I think first of all, about the not dating so much. I think in my earlier years, I was a
bit of a shy person and not so insecure, quite insecure. So I was mostly going out clubbing and
ending up in hookups. And that was more of what my romantic life was being about. I've always been
into sad music or things like that. And then I was a bit into going to friend zone, like a bit of
what in the 90s or 20s will be classified as an emo or whatever, or indie or whatever. But I think
in that sense, with the people that I really liked, I was always ending up a bit into the
friend zone. And then I would go out clubbing and end up into more short term relationships. So
that's, that's what things were for me like, up until my 25 ish 27, 25 ish. And that's when I had
a first long term relationship of about one year with a person from abroad, back in Sao Paulo,
which was much older. And I think up until that point of life, I was also the people that I would
meet would be mostly older, like 10 years older, or so. But anyway, I think after some time, I
concluded that I felt that that was not what that was not going to work. And that was about the time
that I was looking to move to the Netherlands. Yeah, that's how I ended up here and started
exploring dating in this different environment. Yeah, here, during my studies, I became good
friends with the girl that I was much into. And we ended up getting into a relationship for almost
three years. So also my first years in the Netherlands, I didn't get to know much about
how dating was like here. I think only after we had a very hard breakup, I think we were just very
different. And even though, I don't know, I think we had very similar values, but we started
realizing that we had very different interests about what we like to do. And at some point that
becomes became unbearable. We split and I started going to apps. Anyway, I think that's been a bit
of a long detour. But I think apps, apps experience was a bit painful for me in the beginning, at least
I think with this lack of experience with how dating works in first place, or what kind of
communication you're supposed to use, or like how long your sentences should be. I think now looking
back, I realized that I was being quite absurd sometimes of like, sending romantic compliments
or from the moment that you get a match with the person. And then I think through time, you realize
how creepy or unaware of things one can be. And yeah, actually, through time, I started valuing
the fact that I went through this experience and have been in this experience. Because I think I
think I've started learning more about people, not only on the romantic way, but I think more
about communication and about being more empathetic about other people's feelings.
Which apps are you using?
I'm using Bumble at the moment. And before that, I used Tinder for some time and happened for some
time. And yeah, I find funny how they seem to have very different publics. And I don't even
understand how that ends up happening, probably through the algorithms. But Bumble for some reason,
which I thought wasn't possible, seems to have people more like minded or more attractive to me.
And that's why I've been using it for the last six months.
Have you been exclusively dating since your relationship ended when you were about 30?
No, I've been in a few relationships. I'm sorry, I think that was a long term relationship that was
worth mentioning. But other than that, I went into a one year long relationship with someone in the
Netherlands that didn't, yeah, it just never really flew or just I think we never felt engaged
enough to take it some steps further or like feel really exclusive to each other. And yeah, other
than a couple of more shorter term relationships, I just had the breakup one month ago, after three
months together with someone and yeah, we actually didn't meet through apps we met analogically in
in in a festival and
Okay, and what happened there?
No, it was actually a neighborhood market or festival or something like that. And I went
randomly after work, they're looking to just see what was going on. And they had they're trying to
promote the local shops of this neighborhood, which was very nicely organized event. And then
and I went there on my own because I just like exploring the city a bit even though I've been
living here for a long time. It's always a bit of why not. And yeah, actually, I was very happy
that they had lots of free goodies. And then this lady and her group were standing next to me and
we did some eye contact and then they asked if there was space in my table, started chatting,
swapped numbers. And then yeah, some three days later, we met and then yeah, actually met quite
frequently in the first weeks. I think we've had a very good connection, especially it might sound
a bit generic. But I think that's also one thing that I the dating got me to learn more about
myself was this type of affection that you need, which is something that I had never really stopped
to think about. And I realized that I really like physical contact in terms of being hugged or like,
being, yeah, being close to each other, which is something that sometimes in other cultures is not
so common. I think in Latin, maybe it's a stereotypical thing, but in Brazil, maybe we're
more into that. And yeah, I felt that from the start, we were very close to each other walking,
hugged each other. And yeah, I just felt very comfortable from the start. But then on other
hands, I think gradually started realizing that our conversations weren't so fulfilling for me or
sometimes a bit annoying about or at least I would feel annoyed at how self centered they felt to me
like that it was a bit of a monologue. Some might be a bit monologuish now.
It's okay. This episode is about you and your dating experience.
Yeah, so I'll make excuses to talk about myself on this occasion. But if this was a date, yeah,
then I think that would become a bit tiring. And that's how I felt a bit after some time thinking,
okay, if this is going to be my life from now on, maybe that this is not for me.
Yeah, I'm curious how this is was this the first time you've broken up with someone like actively?
No, not in this case exactly. But I think in the past few years, I think I'm mostly Yeah, I think
most of the cases I have been the one after some time noticing, okay, this is, okay, this is not
what I'm looking for. And then go through a breakup. And usually I've been the first breaking up.
And yeah, I've always feel shit about it after, yeah, causing someone to cry.
How do you do the breakup?
Yeah, I've been trying to find out what is the right timing for that. Because it's this last time,
but for example, we went out for dinner and I thought, okay, if I break up now,
the dinner are going to be an asshole. We had agreed we're going to sleep at her house.
I thought if I break up when we arrive at her house, I'm going to be an asshole.
So I'm sorry about the language, but I just could, I kept thinking, okay, what is the nice or most
considerate way of doing this, but there's no right way at least. I concluded there was at the
while going to get our bikes. So as soon as we were getting to unlock, maybe many people used
this strategy, but I just interrupted her unlocking the bike saying, sorry, I'm not going to be able
to join you. But yeah, in other situations, I didn't, I don't know, I delayed too long and
I left it for next morning, for example, and I felt like very bad person for having pretended
that nothing was in my mind or yeah, or you schedule a date with someone and you say right away,
as soon as the person arrived that you're breaking up, I feel like I wasted the time of the person
making her come to just be dumb or to do it by phone. So I think a short question would be that
there's no nice way of doing it. Have you scheduled a date with someone just to break up with them?
Yes, I hope. No, but I mean, we had been going out for, I had five dates or something and
I had been thinking a lot about with myself, okay, is this really going to work? And yeah,
I don't know what I don't, I don't know if that's not a nice thing to do, but I just thought that
doing it online, of course that yeah, doing it online is also maybe equally considerate because
you're not taking one's time. I don't know, there's just no right or wrong with these things, I guess.
No, I don't think there is, but I think you bring up a good point that breaking up is also part of
dating, especially when you've invested some time in someone and then you reach a point like,
oh, maybe this isn't going to work or maybe this person isn't for me.
Yeah, I know it certainly isn't. I think on how to digest it, I think especially on the,
maybe not so much on being dumped, but getting rejected after a first date and getting a message.
I don't know, a couple of times I received a message saying, yeah, okay, after first date,
say this is, I don't see it romantic in any way or yeah, I just don't feel, just I think nowadays
I understand that it's a completely, yeah, actually very considerate. I find it more considerate,
at least I feel it's more considerate than ghosting on someone. It used to hurt me a lot
because I would, you might want more details about it and ask yourself what is not romantic or what
could you please elaborate on what, I wouldn't ask one to explain that, but I would be maybe out of
my insecurities, I would be trying to find out what did I do wrong or what could I have done
differently? Well, I think in practice, there's nothing, for many things, there's just nothing
that we can do differently, right? It's just, it is just a matter, it's nothing really personal,
often it's just a matter of whether you were the right fit for a person or not.
Yeah, I was going to ask how you deal with rejection.
Yeah, I dealt miserably and I'm not going to say that I deal well because you might see me crying,
hugging a street post. That's allowed.
No, I'm not, I don't mean now, but I mean in, I think we can try to shield ourselves and
I think I tried to believe that I learned a bit better nowadays through this, having gone through
the dating process in these past years, but I think it always hurts when you create, I wouldn't
say high expectations, but when you feel very connected with someone and or probably that's
expectations, connection is a generic word, but I think you, yeah, you think that you, that you
liked each other deeply and anyway, I think you don't need to describe rejection.
Anyone knows how it feels.
Have you been ghosted like unexpectedly before or let's say since you've been dating?
Yeah, I think there's different levels of ghosting, I think.
Oh, tell me.
I know, I've seen friends having a person who is taking them for a long period, literally
disappearing, which I can only imagine how hurting that can be, but getting ghosted in apps,
yeah, I think that happens very frequently. I've been through that many times.
And I asked friends, at least being quite revolted from my side, thinking, how can one
do that? But then asking people around me, they would say, well, I wouldn't go through
the effort of having a confrontation. Yeah, that made me stop and think about it and made
me, yeah, also respect their position about that. And I understand that confrontations
are not always easy. I mean, not everyone wants to go through that. Yeah, I think that's
it. I don't take it personal to get ghosted, but I don't do that to others. Or at least
I try not to.
What are you looking for in your life right now with regards to dating?
I feel very silly to at my age, 37, say, I don't know what I'm looking for. But maybe
I should be happy about that, because I think sometimes we have certainties in our life
that can be big mistakes. I don't know. I think sometimes it's better not to know what
you want. And yeah, I just, yeah, at the moment, I'm not really looking for someone. I'm just,
yeah, I feel that I have been in a bit of a stressful period at work and also reflecting
on whether I might want to move to another country or, yeah, or about whether my or about
whether I would like to be sometime closer to my family, because I have some family members
that are not doing very well health wise at the moment. But anyway, I think because of
this personal considerations, I've been questioning myself a lot whether it would make sense to
rope anyone into this mess or to commit to something while you don't really have the
proper mind space for a quality relationship or you might not be the best shape of yourself
mind wise. I don't know.
I'm going to ask the hard question. Why are you even dating right now if you have all
this stuff kind of hanging on your shoulder and you might be moving and you don't have
the headspace?
No, that's it's a it's a hard but fair question. And yeah, I just don't know what the alternative
would be like to sit on my hands. And I don't know. I just I think I find dating interesting
in any case, I think talking to new people and talking to strangers is regardless an
interesting experience. And yeah, maybe maybe there are better there are other ways to do
it in an adult life in other than through a romantic relationship. There's there's many
ways of hearing other stories and creating a connection. But yeah, of course, like any
anyone with sexual or romantic needs and and and yeah, I think I think it's I find it difficult
to I don't feel lonely if I'm on my without a partner for a long period. And I don't mind
doing things on my own. So I don't feel that I need company or I want I'm looking for company.
But yeah, I do have I do feel the need of affection and feeling yeah, appreciated by
someone, especially being an expat, I think, or I'm probably not an expat anymore. But
whatever you call it, but but being living abroad and having no family around us. And
I think especially when you're in your 30s, many of my many of your friends start moving
into a more serious life and moving to other cities and life, you can find yourself doing
nothing on a Friday or Saturday. And there's plenty of things that one could be doing.
But yeah, I just didn't I just didn't go through a process of just didn't put the effort into
finding what to do with my time other than going out to bars or going out clubbing and
socializing. Maybe the answer is just that I like socializing and then as a collateral
effect you end up dating. But why would I go into apps? I don't know. I don't probably
I shouldn't.
You mentioned, yeah, some friends like in their 30s and, you know, moving and settling
down and stuff out of your social circles and your friend groups. Are are you the only
single one or do you have friends who are also dating? Like, where do you fit into that?
Yeah, I think I'm one of my few. I'm one of the few in my circle who are actively dating
at the moment. Yeah, I think most of my friends, especially after covid accelerated the seriousness
of their relationships and either had a kid or moved to the countryside are both not necessarily
in disorder. And yeah, suddenly life became very different than what what it was before,
which is, yeah, I don't complain about it. That's of course that's how life should be
and things should change. And yeah, I think since then I felt a bigger problem, felt a
bigger urge of not finding someone but of going to dates if I'm not going out to a bar
with a group of friends or things like that. Maybe that maybe that actually means finding
company. But I didn't put a lot of thought on that before. But yeah, so most of my friends
nowadays are married and my friends who are single. Yeah, some of them either are too
busy to be or claim to be too busy to be dating or they are taking this posture, which maybe
I should be doing or suppose they should be doing of accepting that they don't have mind
space to be dating at the moment. So they simply don't do it at all. And yeah, and some
others they they are I think the others just don't speak about it. I think guys might be
a bit less outspoken about it. Or at least my friends are not very outspoken about that,
about how their dating life is going. What is it that you like about dating? Yeah, I
like the fact that you get what it of course that depends on who the person is. But you
get for a part of your life for some moment in your life, assuming that the relationship
is not going to last. Sorry, I put it to my disclaimers. Yeah, what I like about dating
is that for some period or a short period in your life, you get to see a lot about the
life of another person or one shares a lot or takes you into their reality for, yeah,
for a period. Yeah, I always value that one can, yeah, is willing to, yeah, to share a
piece of their life with you for even if it's briefly, you get to know about one siblings
and you get to exchange ideas. And you get to learn about what the path of this person
was up until then. Yeah, I think you just get to learn a lot about different perspectives
or how other people see the world or things that are important to you, or how they feel
about things that are important to you. You also get to learn a lot about yourself or
at least I learn about what you appreciate and what you like. And in some way you learn
about what you can learn about what your own habits, which of your own habits can be annoying
or appreciated to others. I don't know, but there's an infinite things that you can learn
through getting intimate with others, even if it's through a single meeting.
Yeah. Are there any things that have stuck out to you that you've learned about yourself
through dating? Maybe not being too negative or too shooting myself on the feet. I don't
know if that's the term in English, but... Yeah, shooting yourself in the foot.
On the foot. Okay. So yeah, I think I've often been very self-critical and I think in a date
that definitely quickly backfires at you. And I think when you're hanging out or when
you're dating with people who are open and I don't know, tell you that you're... Yeah,
I think some people would help in that process and tell you if something that you're doing
is not helpful for yourself or things like that. So I just feel that maybe I might be
sounding negative and self-critical in this call itself. But I think I've learned to be
more positive or to present myself or try to put my best face out there, which actually
turns out to not maybe not even be my best face, but just be my normal face. And it's
just that in some situations you might be inclined to be more negative than you should
be. I think that's one of the things that I've tried to take away out from dates. I
think also trying to generally be more emotionally responsible. I don't know if that would be
a term, but you can't guess how something will land on someone and how the breakup cases,
you can't really influence how one will receive that. And there's not much that you can do
about it. But I think having been on one's show and having to go through these situations
of like the example that I described about the parking lot, I think this becomes an important
life learning. At least for me, it made me a more, maybe more kind person or more mindful
of how my actions can impact someone on the other side for the date being an equalizing
situation that you've been through that and you're causing to others something that you've
been through as well. So I don't know. I think it, as I said before, I feel that it has made
me a better person than I was seven years ago. Probably maybe worse person in some aspects,
but let's not go into that. Why do you say that? You're already self-deprecating. Yeah,
exactly. No, I think- Where does this come from? No, I don't know. I'm not aware of what
negative data can bring in one person. I think generally I'm only familiar with the positive
aspects of it. Have you had any really bad dates? Yeah, I think one that I remember was
a girl that was extremely sarcastic and criticizing me a lot from the very first two minutes that
we met each other. We scheduled a date in a bar that doesn't exist here anymore. But
anyway, I arrived there and I think she didn't, at least she didn't, her pictures were very
different from her in person. And then she was also already quite, came across as a bit
grumpy and making some very acid comments about me asking if, are these, asking if my
sunglasses were fake. I don't know why I was wearing sunglasses, but they do. No, it was,
I had them. Anyway, so I thought it was going to last 30 seconds or one minute and we were
going to walk away. But it turned out that a bunch of friends of mine showed up at the
same bar because there was a World Cup match happening and they coincidentally asked to
join our table and they became friends with her and we ended up staying together the whole
evening. But it just, okay, it's not as bad as it can be. But after drinking a lot, we
actually started making out, we started kissing and we ended up sleeping together. But yeah,
the next, obviously next day I remember why we hadn't clicked or how we didn't click at
all in the beginning. But anyway, I think it could have been worse. But yeah, I don't
know, waking up on the, by the side of someone that you completely don't like and don't click
wasn't a very nice experience. Other than that, yeah, there's, I think this is one that
I always think about, but other than that, nothing too tragic or too horrible.
Anything else that was memorable?
Yeah, I think many were memorable. Actually, I just had a very nice date. Now I was traveling
in Georgia. I met someone randomly in a cafe and we exchanged numbers and we planned to
have dinner the next day. And it just felt like we, the next day when we met for dinner,
we noticed that we had a lot in common, even though we come from a complete different reality.
And we had, yeah, we had very similar concerns about politics or about things that were happening
in her country and about some things that are meaningful to me. She showed me a lot
about her city, like we hang out a lot. And we actually ended up talking, sitting in a
square until five in the morning and I had to work the next day. Yeah, we scheduled,
we had another date on the next day and then I had to leave the country. But I left, yeah,
of course, feeling quite, yeah, heartbroken to be leaving. But yeah, it also reminded
me of how wonderful it is that humans can be so, have so much in common, even having
a completely different story or coming from a complete other side of the world. And actually,
we also had quite some eight years of difference age-wise and worked in completely different
industries. And yeah, I just think that dates provide us the chance of, you know, of seeing
this, as I said earlier, of having a glimpse of what is the life like of another person.
And yeah, it would have been wonderful if it had worked out, but I think both of us
had it clear that it wasn't going to turn into a relationship.
And why is that?
I don't think, yeah, I don't think I would be keen on a long distance relationship nowadays.
And I think also from her side, I think, at least in that sense, I think we're comfortably
aligned in terms of expectations, which I think makes things much more relaxed in any
circumstance. I think that's sometimes one of my only fears or regrets that I feel when
I get into a relationship seriously, that maybe that puts a bit too much weight on expectations
is that I find a single life so beautiful that it confronts you with this randomness
of meeting people out of nothing. And for a relationship to be worth or for me to be
worth giving up on this adventure that life presents me, I expect it to be at least make
me not think about giving up on this because I'm sorry, I'm not a problem explaining it
very well.
No, no, I love it.
I just value so much the situations that I don't feel and I ask myself when I'm beginning
to be in a relationship and I'm in doubt, I ask myself, do I like this person? Of course,
that's what question that anyone would ask. But I ask, do I like it enough that I would
be not be thinking about the experiences that I'm giving up on or that I'm accepting that
I won't be living?
I am curious, why does getting into a relationship for you mean or have to mean giving up on
the randomness and the other things of your single life? Why do you think this?
Yeah, you're totally right. It doesn't have to, but I think maybe it's a bit of too...
Well, to be fair, I noticed that even when traveling with friends or doing things with
friends, I find myself more close to contacting others or I find myself, even if there's no
demand of exclusivity, we are too focused on each other to be engaging with others or
having conversations with strangers or to talk to the waiter. That's my impression,
even when I'm spending time with friends in a festival or things like that. And with a
relationship, it is often similar and it doesn't have necessarily to be like that. I fully
agree. I did see my previous experiences in most cases. It was a bit of a situation that
monopolizes your attention as opposed to the world around you, which is fine and is great,
but when you want to.
Do you think it's possible to do it differently?
Yeah, I'm sure. I think there's so many forms of relationships and to be frank, I haven't
tried open relationships. I've tried uncommitted relationships, but I wouldn't call that an
open relationship. I think engaging with others in the first place doesn't imply romantically
engaging with others at all. I just mean in terms of attention or where your attention
goes to. I think things can be different, but it just depends on what the other person's
behavior would be like. For example, this person that I was dating, she mentioned that
she wouldn't be interested in having new friends and she would find it strange if I would make
too many new friends, especially female. But that alone maybe wouldn't lead me to break
up. But that was one of the yellow or red flags to me to think that there were expectations
of a bit of an affectionate exclusivity or friendship exclusivity. Maybe it doesn't shock
me so much because I think in Brazil where I come from, relationships often seem to be
very much like that. Of course, I've been away for a long time, but couples do everything
together and really inform each other where they are. There's often not much traveling
with people from work. That's how it felt back when I lived there. Maybe it doesn't
feel so abnormal to me that one asks that. Maybe that created a good boogeyman in my
imagination. When is your next date? I'm going to a wine festival with this lady that I'm
seeing. We went on two dates since last week. We met last Sunday and then we met this past
Saturday and then we agreed to go to a wine. I don't think it's a festival tasting with
some friends of hers. It sounds very serious to me. But again, you see that suddenly we're
moving to milestones because why going out to a wine something with her friends means
a milestone at all. Maybe one could feel scared about, oh, we're going to meet your friends
after two dates. When it doesn't mean anything, maybe we're not going anywhere. I really enjoy
her company. I don't think it's going to work out romantically, but I'm loving the dates,
the two dates that we had together. I think I learned a lot in the chats with her. She
understands a lot about natural wines, which I don't understand anything about. In the
worst case, I learned a bit about that from her. I'm looking forward to seeing her again.
That sounds really nice. The last question, do you have any advice or words of wisdom
you want to leave our listeners with? I think for someone who would be getting into dating
apps or who had been away from this dating world for some time, I think one might feel
intimidated or feel hurt about the personality of some situations like ghosting or people
sending you very short messages or taking five days to reply. I think my advice would
be that, yeah, I think we all go through this. At least that's what I hear from those who
are also going into dates. Just don't take bad situations personal. I don't know, focus
on the positive and beautiful things that you can get out of dates and all the fun time
that you can have by knowing strangers, even if it's not going to be someone who you're
going to be romantically involved with. It's just beautiful to meet other people, especially
if it's people who are like-minded with you. Actually, not that. I would correct that because
I think meeting people who are different from you is equally interesting, maybe even more
interesting. I find it positive in any case. Maybe that's why I struggled to find an example
of a bad date because I think even this bad date example that I gave, I wouldn't do anything
differently and I can't think of a date that I would undo in my life. I think everything
was worth it. Dating Log is recorded and hosted by me, Wyndham Juno. It is produced by Harry
Dark. Our artwork is in collaboration with Esme Heming Studio. You can follow us on Instagram
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