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Welcome to Dating Log, the podcast that records the ups and downs of dating in your 30s.

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I'm your host, Wyndon Juneau, and this is episode 8, the Tinder Ambassador.

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I met Tua during my travels last winter in Southeast Asia.

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She took me around to try local cuisine, drinks, and desserts, and I took her to her first

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drag show.

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At that time, we talked a lot about food, history, and traveling, but this time, we

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talked all about dating.

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She's well-spoken, funny, and in true Dating Log style, offers new perspectives and ideas.

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Super fun fact, she's married to herself.

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Listen to learn more.

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Hello, Wyndon and everyone.

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My name is Tua.

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I'm 36 years old, and I live in Hanoi, the capital city of Vietnam.

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I am a straight female until this time, and usually, I would use either Tinder or Bumble

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to meet my dates.

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And kickoff question, how is dating going for you?

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Right now, I'm having a partner.

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I would like to call him my boyfriend, but for his perspective, I might be just a lover

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to him.

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So, okay, I'm going to call him my boyfriend.

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So I have one boyfriend, and I am looking for another kind of long-term partner as well.

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When you say you have one boyfriend and you're looking for another partner, why is it that

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these things are separate?

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Could the boyfriend become a partner?

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Can you explain a bit more?

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Okay.

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So usually in Vietnam, people will only stay very loyal, like a one-and-one monogamous

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relationship.

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And I have been living like that for such a long time until my last boyfriend cheated

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me and I was so badly hurt.

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And then it came to this guy who is an American, and he said that he's not into monogamous

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relationships usually.

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He will have two people at the same time.

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It's an open relationship.

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And I was very shocked at this because I had kind of very good feelings for him.

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And then I thought that, okay, so this open relationship guy may be a jerk, but then he's

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still less of a jerk than my ex-boyfriend because the ex-boyfriend cheated me.

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So I was like, oh yeah, okay, let's do it.

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After that, when I stayed and I learned to adapt to this open relationship, I began to

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think that, oh, well, actually this is a cool lifestyle.

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And that's what you're doing right now?

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Yeah.

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Well, I have no choice, do I?

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Do you have a choice?

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What do you think?

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So at this phase of life, I am learning to live differently.

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I think it's the right time for me to just experience it.

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And who knows?

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I mean, I don't know in the future, I might just turn back to a monogamous person or a

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polygamous, I don't know.

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What do you mean with this phase of life?

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Well, I've been through things in the past.

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For example, I have been through a divorce with my 10-year ex-husband.

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And then I had another relationship which I felt like I could love him unconditionally.

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But then he still cheated, right?

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So I think that in dating specifically, in particular, in dating people would have different

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lives or different phases of one life.

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I know a lady, for example, she used to be a straight woman and then she turned into

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a biosexual and now she's like really into lesbians.

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Yeah, so that's and she's not coming back to like a straight woman anymore.

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So it's like phases.

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And right now I'm exploring with this American boyfriend of mine.

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And I think it's great because I am very deeply connected to him.

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But also I could have my own freedom to explore other guys as well.

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Can you define dating for me?

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Dating for me would be two people meeting and they have some in-depth or not very, but

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like they have some chemistry.

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Usually I could go out with guys for a cafe, for example, but I wouldn't call that dates

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if I don't have any feeling for them.

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Okay, let's say you meet someone either on the app or on the street.

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How do you decide when to go out to a cafe and it's a date or when to go out into a cafe

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and it's just something casual or friends?

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I haven't taken any time to think about it.

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Usually it's just like a conversation going.

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Well, before I got this interview with you, I was like just a few minutes earlier, I was

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on Tinder and chatting with some guys and some of them really get in my nerve.

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Like the way they text, they use so wrong emoticons.

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They really get in my nerve and say, bye-bye.

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But well, I would like people to start with not very cliche questions because my profile,

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for example, I made it, I put so much effort in my profile about what I want to do and

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what I don't want to talk about.

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And sometimes people, they just don't read profiles at all.

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And for those people, I say, bye.

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Or people who really read or dig my profile, for example, they would know how to start

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like a question that makes me interested.

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And then the flow of the conversation just goes very naturally.

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I don't like people to ask like, where do you live?

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Like which district are you in?

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What is your job?

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How old are you?

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Or like, what is your size?

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How high are you?

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Like those questions are so boring.

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And I could just say bye immediately for those people.

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Sorry, guys.

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I'm really very strict.

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Do you have, could you share some examples of some like good conversation starting questions

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that people ask you?

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Okay.

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Let me go through my Tinder now.

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Okay, so on my profile, I want to invite someone to go to gold digging with me, for example.

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I'm so interested in gold digging these times or gemstone digging.

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So if someone ever had any experience of gemstone digging or archery, they would say it right

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away and they say, hey, let's go for it.

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And I'm like, yeah, let's go.

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So I don't have to ask them like, what are your interests?

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They do have experience about that.

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So I like live actions, I guess, over texting or well, I'm really digging these guys who

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have artistic souls or they have some experience with yoga, meditation and cure time singing

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and dancing.

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So by looking at their photos and by them looking at my photos, we could have really

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good flow together about what we like.

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And usually I wouldn't spend like more than a couple of hours talking to them.

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But if the flow is really exciting, then we just go meet.

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Or at least if he's not in the city, then we have like a video call.

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Well, that's this is something new no one has talked about.

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How do you decide when to have a video call with someone?

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Oh, when when we just say we just think that texting doesn't well, we really like each

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other.

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Right.

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And we think that texting may not be can may not expose too much of our feelings or how

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do you put this?

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Like, we really want them.

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I really want him to see my facial expressions as well, like just like what we're doing now.

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You see me on Zoom and you see my smile.

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I see his smile.

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He sees mine and we kind of, you know, kind of fall in love for those moments.

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Also not texting.

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Texting is like we can't imagine.

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And also beautiful.

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He has to look handsome because well, I'm sorry, guys, but I just don't have any.

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I don't have physical chemistries with guys who are not like my type of look.

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When you are talking to people and planning a date, what kinds of things are you doing?

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So Vietnamese guys are kind of boring.

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They always invite me to cafes and I'm OK for cafes, actually.

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But I think that's just like a little cliche and just a little traditional.

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OK, Vietnamese guys are I think the worst dates that I'm sorry, Vietnamese guys.

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Maybe I don't meet like interesting Vietnamese guys, but usually they on Tinder or Bumble,

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what Vietnamese guys are going for is sex.

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So the ones who expose their goals when chatting, then when they say so much about sex, I just

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unmatch them right away.

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But some people at the cafe, they start navigating the conversation into sex.

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And I am very irritated with that.

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But for some other guys, like Westerners, we well, usually we meet them as I well, like

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for other activities as well.

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For example, we go for a walk.

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I go to their place just to see what their life is, how they're living.

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I can't say that this is a date.

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Well, maybe it's a date.

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OK, so I met this very cool guy who did drag queen thing, and he was also a DJ.

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And I came to his house and I just saw I just watched what he was doing, putting makeup

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on his face, things like that.

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So I'm really interested in people who have exciting stories or exciting activities, and

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I want to see how they're doing.

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And also, I sometimes invite people to my house because I have this beautiful house

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that I just want to show people.

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And I think that they might be interested in my life as well.

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So yeah, I go to their place, they go to my place.

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We go walking.

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What else?

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I think so.

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Yeah.

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That's it.

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Can you tell me about a really great date that you've been on?

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Well, I think the greatest dates would well, the people I'm going to talk about people

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first, the greatest people that I find on Bumble and Tinder are usually people who I

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get to know them like the authentic and genuine person for some time, even months or even

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half a year until we become something.

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So my current boyfriend is also a great date.

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We met two years ago when I was having my ex boyfriend.

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But then I was because I was so angry that my boyfriend at that time was on Tinder and

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chatting and meeting people.

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We were still monogamous.

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I was still monogomous at that time.

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But then I saw him doing that and I was like, oh, I have to make a revenge.

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And then I went on Tinder and met my current boyfriend.

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But then we were just friends and we went to exhibition and we went to, he was into

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art.

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We went to galleries and stuff like that.

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And that was really good dates if that were those were dates because we we kind of get

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to know each other in a very deep level, but not thinking about like we have to be something

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like lovers or something.

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It was just so naive and innocent kind of dating.

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And then my the guy, he went back to United States for two years and we lost contact until

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he came back to Vietnam.

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I saw him again on Bumble and it was like, hey, do you remember me?

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And then we went out and then at one point he said, I feel that there's something here

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between us.

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I don't know what it is, but I really want to to find out with you.

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And then we started a relationship like that.

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And this is the guy that you're still in an open relationship with.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And well, that that was really strange for me.

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But then I am very thankful to this boyfriend that I'm having because although that he's

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having lovers, but he's very mindful to talk to me in a very careful, caring way, a loving

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way.

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And I could also tell him all about my concerns and my fears and my negative feelings for

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this this this new path that I went into.

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And he would be there with me.

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And together, we kind of overcame these emotions of mine.

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So in one way, I think it's really great that there's someone who could also share my feelings

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and be mindful of that for everything that happens around us.

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What?

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And let me think of how to phrase this.

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Because you're so you're in an open relationship with him and you're still dating and he's

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having lovers and dates and you're also having lovers and dates.

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How do you discuss this with each other?

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Is it there?

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Yeah.

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How do you manage this, I guess?

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At first, I couldn't manage that in a good way.

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I was jealous.

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I had these I was texting him kind of I guess there were some times that I was angry or

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I was revengeful or I just I don't well I was in really I was confused about what was

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happening and he didn't like it.

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And then we had to sit down and talk.

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I said I was behaving that way because I've never feeling I've never felt or in I was

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never in such a similar relationship.

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And he was saying that I had a double standard because I also went out dating people but

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then I'm just still jealous and I don't want him to have his lovers.

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And I said you know that's that yes that's important for you.

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It's a double standard thing.

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But for me it's because I'm just in between these worlds.

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I was a monogamous person.

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And then I had this sense of ownership.

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Like any other Vietnamese people person would have for their partner they have ownership.

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They have jealousy.

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So I still have that.

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And I'm also walking into your world of you know polygamous thing.

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So so I'm both exploring that new world but not you know not not yet overcome or you know

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pass through that boundary that I had.

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So I'm still in between the lines.

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That's why I'm having double standards.

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And you have to understand that for me.

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But but I'm working with you.

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I'm trying to process it with you.

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And the more we talk the more we sat down and talk.

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Now I'm at the phase of I could be able to talk with him about his lovers like oh how

239
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was that blow job that you were having.

240
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,880
And your crush how is she now?

241
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:56,280
Is she accepting this open relationship that you're having or is she not.

242
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,040
And how are you feeling with it.

243
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:03,760
So right now I'm able to ask those questions without the feeling of jealousy.

244
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,880
But he's also concerned about what I'm feeling.

245
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:12,720
So so he would tell me some stories and then he would always stop and then ask me how are

246
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you feeling.

247
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Are you all right with these.

248
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:16,200
Yeah.

249
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,560
So I think that's that is a very new experience for me.

250
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:26,640
What is preventing you two from having this sort of long term closed relationship if that's

251
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,920
what you're looking for.

252
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:29,920
I'm not sure.

253
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:38,120
Well I do want some kind of commitment like hey I'm your boyfriend you're my girlfriend.

254
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:44,760
I think he did have a kind of commitment but I don't really understand what's in his mind

255
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,240
right now.

256
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:51,840
I think relationships are really very vulnerable.

257
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,840
I've been through a marriage of 10 years.

258
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We were so committed.

259
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,880
That's why we went into marriage.

260
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But then it broke.

261
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,400
And then I had another love and I was so committed to him.

262
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,880
It was I was supporting him with everything I've got and then it broke.

263
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:14,000
And now I'm getting to this relationship when he says no I'm not going to commit to you

264
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,240
but I'm mindful and I'm present with you.

265
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And that's what the that's what important.

266
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:26,840
So I don't know if I'm looking for like a long term relationship with him but I'm feeling

267
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:34,640
that you know this is the most mindful relationship that we end also the most authentic or genuine

268
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,520
relationship that I can I can talk with him all about my hopes and my fears and also he

269
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could talk about those.

270
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,400
So I'm not sure long term relationship is needed for this one.

271
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:53,960
And for him he he has some kind of fear about commitment because I think he was born into

272
00:19:53,960 --> 00:20:00,640
a family who well his parents separated when he was very young and then his his life is

273
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,240
it was brought up differently than I am.

274
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,380
So he's very afraid of getting committed to one person.

275
00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:10,960
So he's trying to avoid that by you know having multiple lovers.

276
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:16,080
So that's some mental problems that he's having.

277
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,820
And I don't want to deal with that right now.

278
00:20:18,820 --> 00:20:26,960
So okay let's let's slide over to this like age thing because you're mid late 30s and

279
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:33,400
when you say you're looking for a long term partner what are you hoping to find with that.

280
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,800
Does that entail you know family careers friendship going out.

281
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,240
Do you want just the emotional thing.

282
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:40,240
Do you want a sexual.

283
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:41,240
Do you want a relationship.

284
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:42,240
Do you want to have a relationship with your ex.

285
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,240
Do you want to have a relationship with your ex.

286
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:44,240
So that's what I'm looking for.

287
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:50,900
So at my age I am looking for the deepest or a deeper connection with myself.

288
00:20:50,900 --> 00:21:00,340
I have experienced some very bad time in the past 12 years in all kinds of situations in

289
00:21:00,340 --> 00:21:07,840
love or in money in business in reputation everything.

290
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:15,860
And last year I decided to go on this spiritual journey to heal myself and then eventually

291
00:21:15,860 --> 00:21:19,040
I got married to myself in December.

292
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:25,220
And after that I went on a self honeymoon in Bali for two weeks.

293
00:21:25,220 --> 00:21:33,140
And I am very dedicated in spending the next this phase this phase of my life to get connected

294
00:21:33,140 --> 00:21:35,920
to me in the deeper way.

295
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:43,000
And all the relationships that I'm having even like either boyfriends or lovers I want

296
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:48,320
them not to interfere with my spiritual journey but they will.

297
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:54,560
I like guys who have their own journey and I have my own journey and we could support

298
00:21:54,560 --> 00:22:02,420
compliment each other's so that we if we stay together we don't stay together we become

299
00:22:02,420 --> 00:22:04,640
better people after that.

300
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:12,600
What a cool journey you're on and to hear that you're yeah like you're dating and it's

301
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,400
great so long as you compliment each other and you help each other move forward and you

302
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:24,640
build each other up that is such a unique way of dating and looking for people.

303
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:30,260
And the people that you're dating what is the age range of the people you're looking

304
00:22:30,260 --> 00:22:31,260
for?

305
00:22:31,260 --> 00:22:40,680
I'm looking for people around my age so I'm 35 I'm looking for like 32 to 56 I think.

306
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:46,000
It jumps up a bit higher than it goes lower.

307
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:51,440
Yeah I really like older guys because they usually they have more knowledge and they

308
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,800
have wisdom and they've been through stuff so I could learn a lot from them.

309
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:03,360
Do you notice a difference in dating let's say a 32 year old versus a 56 year old besides

310
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:06,600
knowledge and wisdom?

311
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:16,360
Well I think guys in their 40s and in their 40s for Westerners they are really skillful

312
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:21,280
at sex and they still have strength.

313
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,940
That's an excellent observation.

314
00:23:24,940 --> 00:23:27,760
Sex is part of dating that's true.

315
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:33,800
They are skillful they know how to please a woman and they are not that weak when I

316
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:39,660
think they get to 50 something many guys they like went down.

317
00:23:39,660 --> 00:23:42,560
So something changes with age.

318
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:51,040
Yeah that's what I think about guys and when they're at their 30s I think they're strong

319
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:56,560
they have some skills but then I am a sapiosexual.

320
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:02,880
If they do not have this wisdom that I'm looking for then sex is still something that I say

321
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,320
oh yeah.

322
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:10,760
Can you for people who might not know define sapiosexual what does that mean?

323
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:20,040
Oh sapiosexual is you feel you're interested in a guy who has wisdom I think or who is

324
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,120
who has knowledge or who is smart.

325
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:31,320
So smart conversations smart information if you're into that then you're a sapiosexual.

326
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,560
Can you tell me we talked about the kinds of dates you're having and what kinds of things

327
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:41,160
you're doing and about great dates can you tell me about maybe like the worst date you've

328
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,560
ever been on?

329
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:48,360
Yeah I had one.

330
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:57,400
Well he well when okay so that was the point after my my marriage I got divorced I got

331
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:05,360
separated from my ex-husband and I began using Tinder because okay some information about

332
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:11,960
my past I was I was in love with him for two years and then in the marriage with him for

333
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:17,520
10 years he was my first boyfriend ever and he was you know Vietnamese guys sometimes

334
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,000
especially guys in the north they're alpha male so I never had any any other experience

335
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:30,640
than him and then after HA first one that was the first time I went on Tinder and then

336
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:39,960
I explored the this dating world that was about that was let's say three years ago yeah

337
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:46,580
that was three years ago and then I started dating all kinds of people I started having

338
00:25:46,580 --> 00:25:50,880
sex with all kinds of people because that was the first time I knew what sex was my

339
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:57,840
ex-husband we kind of had sex like twice per year something like that and and he wasn't

340
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:04,560
really it was very vanilla sex and he didn't care about me at all anyway it's like exploring

341
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:10,000
this world of Tinder and it was like oh that's what dating is that's what sex is you know

342
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:22,320
that that ex-husband is like a son of a bitch and okay so that's and then I met this guy

343
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:29,440
and I went to a cafe with him and I was usually I would be so upfront to tell a guy everything

344
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,920
about me I don't hide things right and then he looked at me as if I was a very slutty

345
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:42,600
and a bitch he was like why are you spucking a lot of people like that that's a bad thing

346
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:52,280
you shouldn't do that that is that karma and so yeah I think that was the really worst

347
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:59,240
thing because people kind of judge me before they really know my story and my personality

348
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:06,360
and everything that what I've been through and they and they begin giving advices that

349
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:14,880
they think are good but it's so not relevant to me so yeah I those kinds of dates what

350
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:21,680
which people kind of are really close-minded and they judge people other people like except

351
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,920
especially me and I they hate those the most.

352
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:31,520
Yeah shit that's so unfair like it yeah give you a chance I mean who is someone random

353
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:36,560
to be like you're doing this wrong and a guy at that like telling a woman okay.

354
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:42,480
You know they take karma out to do to scare you that's the worst.

355
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:50,280
To follow up on what you just said about you know having this phase of dating and having

356
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:58,520
sex and getting to know other people and exploring basically how was that for you being you were

357
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,280
so you were 32 when that started.

358
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,080
Yeah I started at 32 and now I'm 35.

359
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,800
How has that driven you in what have you learned?

360
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:18,320
So at the first phase of tinder I had a really bad sex crisis and I couldn't concentrate

361
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:24,240
on any other thing in life other than just sex because that was when I had some explorations

362
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:33,480
about sex and I was I felt really bad of myself I because I just couldn't control myself and

363
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:40,040
then I met my second boyfriend also on tinder he was the first person to tell me that he's

364
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:48,120
not interested in sex he just wanted to have someone to hang out with in in artistic events

365
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:57,320
like museums and also galleries and at that time I he was like a savior of my life at

366
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:04,160
that time because he snapped me out of sex and got me into other interests.

367
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:11,840
So you know there are guys like that on tinder they are just so into something else and I

368
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:21,080
was grateful with to that and after that after breaking up with him I became more careful

369
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,400
in choosing who I date with.

370
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:30,400
It seems like I do have other lovers than my boyfriend but I choose them really carefully

371
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:38,640
and I usually take time to to to be friends with them first and I like guys who have who

372
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:47,760
have contents who have live stories and everything who are open-minded and also there's another

373
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:54,000
platform that I use I don't think it's like dating but all but it's like getting to know

374
00:29:54,000 --> 00:30:00,760
people I'd like to include in this conversation with you that is Cowsurfing.

375
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:08,000
So Cowsurfing is a platform for it's like a hospitality network and from there I do

376
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:15,920
meet all kinds of people guys and girls and some of them eventually became my lover but

377
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:21,400
it's not intended at the first place because I don't use Cowsurfing for dating and keeping

378
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:29,040
them so separate but we um but because we don't think of of of that as a as a dating

379
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:34,960
site so we hang out and we talk just like friends and then after some time we we kind

380
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:41,720
of we get really interested in each other and then we date so I've got amazing people

381
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:49,880
on Cowsurfing to date with me thanks to that thanks to us not thinking about dating at

382
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:50,880
the first place.

383
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:56,640
Can you tell me what do you find the most enjoyable about dating?

384
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:05,480
By dating from dating I learned a lot well it could well I could say that we have a very

385
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:13,040
short life we cannot live like 10 lives of 10 different people but in meeting people

386
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:20,440
on any kind any platform there is meeting you guys and they're open to share their stories

387
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:26,240
and I learned so much and it feels sometimes like I'm living their life as well I could

388
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:36,760
live another life thanks to them and from that I think that I'm more open-minded I

389
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:45,600
I am more open to to the universe to my universe and I feel the universe is really abundant

390
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:52,440
to give me those lessons and those people those wonderful amazing people that I've met

391
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,800
and it opens my eyes and my heart as well.

392
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:02,360
That's a really beautiful answer just kind of on acceptance and appreciation for what

393
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:09,240
is to take a hard gear shift here what do you find the most frustrating about dating?

394
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:17,560
Oh frustrating about dating guys inviting me to have sex with them before they know

395
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:25,640
who I am that is really frustrating and some people in Vietnam also in dating sites they

396
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:34,040
met there are many guys who who want to find sugar babies and by sugar babies I think it's

397
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:42,320
a different way of understanding about this term in the western and the and in the eastern

398
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:48,400
world so sugar babies in Vietnam in Vietnamese literally it just means like they're looking

399
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:55,640
for prostitutes and it's really frustrates me that I don't really want to swipe on Vietnamese

400
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:02,040
guys anymore immediately when we say hi to each other and then they start these boring

401
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:07,600
conversations like what are you what do you do how old are you like what height what weight

402
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:14,600
your size body and then they ask like okay I'll meet you and I give you two million dollar

403
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:21,200
or two million Vietnam Dong per meeting you have to go to a hotel with me so I don't know

404
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:28,120
in other countries like in your country but in Vietnam people ask for the price and then

405
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:33,540
they give a surprise just as if girls are like some kind of commodity so that really

406
00:33:33,540 --> 00:33:35,320
frustrates me.

407
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:42,320
Yeah I haven't experienced that here like at least in Europe and the US I know there

408
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:48,680
are specific apps and websites for sugar babies and it's girls who are on these apps and men

409
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:56,360
who are on these apps with the intention of a cash exchange but as far as just being approached

410
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,720
via Tinder or Bumble that hasn't happened I've been sent some pics that I did not ask

411
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:06,320
for I think that's can be expected across all apps but I've never been offered like

412
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,160
cash right up front.

413
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:16,080
I want to ask about some factors that come into play while you're dating so the first

414
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:22,400
one being your friend in social groups are the people that you're hanging out with and

415
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,960
spending time with are they dating are they single are they married are their parents

416
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,900
like what does that look like and how do you fit into that?

417
00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:36,920
So I have a group of college friends that we kind of share these stories so I am a single

418
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,760
mom and I have the freedom to date.

419
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:49,640
I have another there's a friend of mine who's also a single mom and I and at her most desperate

420
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:56,040
time I told her you should go on Tinder so I'm well for my friends they think of me as

421
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:01,600
a Tinder ambassador or something I'm just like hooking everyone up to Tinder but then

422
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:06,880
my friend who is a single mom she eventually went on Tinder and she had her friends with

423
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,280
benefits and that really helped her a lot.

424
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:17,720
I think having a friend with benefit is really a great thing sometimes especially for ladies

425
00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:23,440
in Vietnam who got divorced but they still have to spend a lot of time for a child or

426
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,040
the children then that would be needed.

427
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:33,160
So yeah I lured him at her to Tinder.

428
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:42,200
I have another friend so also I lured her into Tinder as well but she this lady she's

429
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:51,240
married and she had a very hard life with her husband and I told her maybe you should

430
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:58,760
just cheat a little and go on Tinder date someone and she did it and she had this fling

431
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:07,680
with a Malaysian guy and then her husband found out but that was the time but this really

432
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:15,440
this is a cool story as well so by finding out that she is using she was using Tinder

433
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:22,400
her husband had a really hard time thinking about all the things that he had done wrong

434
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:28,640
in this marriage that lead to this incident and then they sat down together and they said

435
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:34,000
okay so that's what happened right I am sorry he said I'm sorry for everything and now let's

436
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,920
just you know rebuild it and then they they did rebuild it and they're having a and then

437
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:45,760
they had a second son so yeah I think that for that particular case Tinder and the fling

438
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:51,600
really helped the marriage she was thankful to me that I lured her into Tinder.

439
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,220
Yeah I guess that it could be a relationship saver maybe they can use that as like a side

440
00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:57,220
tagline like.

441
00:36:57,220 --> 00:37:03,040
Well yeah who knows that's for some people that is the end of relationship but I think

442
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:10,040
in the end sometimes it's mean it also means a new beginning and for this particular couple

443
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,880
it wasn't the end but it was also a new beginning already so it's okay.

444
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:22,280
In Vietnam and Vietnamese culture is cheating something that happens or how yeah like okay

445
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,280
so in the US for example a lot of people cheat and a lot of people get divorced whereas like

446
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:34,080
in Europe there are apps now and you even seek see it on Tinder and Bumble there are

447
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:39,840
a lot of couples on these apps as profiles how is that in Vietnam?

448
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:49,040
Usually in Vietnam cheating is pretty popular I think I'm sorry about this I feel so bad

449
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:56,640
when I say this usually I don't I hate cheating myself I don't want to just lie to someone

450
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:04,200
I'd rather be honest with them about what's going on but in Vietnam there's this social

451
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:09,960
perspective on being a couple is you have to be monogamous and you have to stay loyal

452
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:16,160
and that's I think that's basically also happening everywhere in eastern especially in eastern

453
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:24,720
countries but many people deep down inside they feel that this is a very close relationship

454
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:30,440
that they want to just explode because when people are together for so long time they

455
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:38,040
crave for something new but then they have to stay loyal because of social norms so that's

456
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:43,760
why they cheat they go on Tinder they say I am married but I am looking for a sugar

457
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:51,040
baby and I'm willing to pay money and I think there are a lot of guys nowadays in Vietnam

458
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:58,960
who will understand deeply that they don't want to get a divorce but they are so they

459
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:04,600
feel the need they crave for something new and they want to they're willing to pay for

460
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:10,360
that new thing just to so they don't have to be any risk they don't have to pay any

461
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:15,960
other kind of responsibility to the girl and then they could just say goodbye to that girl

462
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:22,600
they they're tired of them or they want something newer but they never talk to their women or

463
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:31,800
to their wives about what's going on and I met one guy two days ago he's like that but

464
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:37,960
I'm into him just as a person because what he's doing his business that I'm interested

465
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:46,520
but he's very open to me about that topic as well so he he he cares about his wife and

466
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:54,200
his children and he wants to come home feeling new and feeling refreshed and feeling not

467
00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:02,400
pressured because he had this very stressful business already and he has to find an outlet

468
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:09,840
just to to express all those things out so he wanted someone to talk to he want he really

469
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:16,720
wanted to have someone like a healer to talk to and he went online both finding sugar babies

470
00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:26,400
to have sex with and both finding people to talk to so I think he well for most of the

471
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:32,800
Tinder guys the Vietnamese Tinder guys that I met he is he all he cheats but he's like

472
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:40,480
cheating in a responsible way anyway but I still prefer open relationships to those cheating

473
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:45,440
relationships yeah yeah when you're open at least you're being honest about it and upfront

474
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:51,240
about it you're not hiding the fact that you're also interested in and developing relationships

475
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:59,560
with other people swinging over to like some of this growth while dating let's say emotional

476
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:05,320
growth mental growth what are some things that you've learned about yourself what well

477
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:12,880
through dating these last few years oh I think dating life turned me into a wonderful lady

478
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:20,440
as I am now before dating I only dated one first boyfriend and I became his wife and

479
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:26,880
I never knew that I was that beautiful he never gave me any compliments about my physical

480
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:33,000
like my body or or how smart I was and everything like that but then like the more I date people

481
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:40,080
the more I know that they these people really appreciate something in me and and it reflects

482
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:50,040
on to me and and I also think eventually I knew of my weak points and also my strengths

483
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:59,600
I work to to improve myself because usually I really I am very I am an ambitious person

484
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:07,200
in life development so I'm thankful to this open relationship I'm having because even

485
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:13,880
though I have a boyfriend but I still meet other people and I could improve myself from

486
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:23,680
each date so one after another even for for lovers for example before this I tried to

487
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:32,520
find um expats because I don't want to you know have um loving relationship with people

488
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:38,680
to travel into the country but then I didn't have a lot of standards but the more I date

489
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:44,920
the more standards and the more careful I am in choosing them yeah I think I would agree

490
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:51,000
with you there the more I date the more I say okay well I know I like this I know I

491
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:58,480
don't like that and in some way the field gets narrower but in some way it also feels

492
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:04,880
good to know I am worth this time I'm worth this attention I know these are the people

493
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:10,960
that work for me and these ones maybe don't and that's okay that's also okay um when is

494
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:19,760
your next date tomorrow tomorrow afternoon I'm pretty active I think oh what are you

495
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:27,760
gonna do on this date and who is it with okay so um well I went on a date with him once

496
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:35,720
last October he's an Australian guy and he has something that I'm really interested in

497
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:42,640
so he's into music and he hosts different musical events and I went out with him once

498
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:49,640
that was the time that I was looking for like a boyfriend and eventually I got my current

499
00:43:49,640 --> 00:44:00,120
boyfriend but recently we talked again and I tomorrow I'll take him to my family museum

500
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,640
because he's really interested in culture and history of Vietnam so I'm just going to

501
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:10,840
tell that and we will go to his place because he has this called the social club that he

502
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:18,240
hosts a lot of things and and he has different food and and drinks that he newly created

503
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:25,760
he's just recently got this menu that he really wants me to try well he he's really an interesting

504
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:31,280
guy I'm really interested really curious he lived in a place where he could look out the

505
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:37,800
window and see a lot of guys men um playing badminton and swimming naked so it's like

506
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:43,160
a sausage dance that I want to visit yeah I'm really interested to go to to his house

507
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,480
next time that sounds exciting and something new and different

508
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:52,040
yeah like a lot of guys and 10 guys being naked isn't that cool

509
00:44:52,040 --> 00:45:01,480
hey um do you have any advice or words of wisdom that you could offer people on dating

510
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:10,240
I encourage everyone to to date and the more you date the wiser you get but also be mindful

511
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:18,320
and protect yourself well I think this is really an old saying but just be genuine be

512
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:26,400
authentic and and care for the other person as well and that's the um the most interest

513
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:36,120
the most important thing to get uh to achieve cool relationships whatever kind of relationship

514
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:37,120
that is

515
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:49,880
dating log is recorded and hosted by me windon juno it is produced by harry dark our artwork

516
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:55,080
is in collaboration with esme hemming studio you can follow us on instagram at dating

517
00:45:55,080 --> 00:46:03,440
log podcast our website is dating log podcast.com check it out we've just updated it if you'd

518
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:08,840
like to send us a message you can slide into our instagram dms or send us an email at dating

519
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:15,520
log podcast at gmail.com please like and subscribe wherever you listen and if you're enjoying

520
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:21,080
the episode so far leave a review and tell a friend we'll see you in a fortnight please

521
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:34,760
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