Welcome to Dating Log, the podcast that records the ups and downs of dating in your 30s.
I'm your host, Wyndon Juneau, and this is episode 8, the Tinder Ambassador.
I met Tua during my travels last winter in Southeast Asia.
She took me around to try local cuisine, drinks, and desserts, and I took her to her first
drag show.
At that time, we talked a lot about food, history, and traveling, but this time, we
talked all about dating.
She's well-spoken, funny, and in true Dating Log style, offers new perspectives and ideas.
Super fun fact, she's married to herself.
Listen to learn more.
Hello, Wyndon and everyone.
My name is Tua.
I'm 36 years old, and I live in Hanoi, the capital city of Vietnam.
I am a straight female until this time, and usually, I would use either Tinder or Bumble
to meet my dates.
And kickoff question, how is dating going for you?
Right now, I'm having a partner.
I would like to call him my boyfriend, but for his perspective, I might be just a lover
to him.
So, okay, I'm going to call him my boyfriend.
So I have one boyfriend, and I am looking for another kind of long-term partner as well.
When you say you have one boyfriend and you're looking for another partner, why is it that
these things are separate?
Could the boyfriend become a partner?
Can you explain a bit more?
Okay.
So usually in Vietnam, people will only stay very loyal, like a one-and-one monogamous
relationship.
And I have been living like that for such a long time until my last boyfriend cheated
me and I was so badly hurt.
And then it came to this guy who is an American, and he said that he's not into monogamous
relationships usually.
He will have two people at the same time.
It's an open relationship.
And I was very shocked at this because I had kind of very good feelings for him.
And then I thought that, okay, so this open relationship guy may be a jerk, but then he's
still less of a jerk than my ex-boyfriend because the ex-boyfriend cheated me.
So I was like, oh yeah, okay, let's do it.
After that, when I stayed and I learned to adapt to this open relationship, I began to
think that, oh, well, actually this is a cool lifestyle.
And that's what you're doing right now?
Yeah.
Well, I have no choice, do I?
Do you have a choice?
What do you think?
So at this phase of life, I am learning to live differently.
I think it's the right time for me to just experience it.
And who knows?
I mean, I don't know in the future, I might just turn back to a monogamous person or a
polygamous, I don't know.
What do you mean with this phase of life?
Well, I've been through things in the past.
For example, I have been through a divorce with my 10-year ex-husband.
And then I had another relationship which I felt like I could love him unconditionally.
But then he still cheated, right?
So I think that in dating specifically, in particular, in dating people would have different
lives or different phases of one life.
I know a lady, for example, she used to be a straight woman and then she turned into
a biosexual and now she's like really into lesbians.
Yeah, so that's and she's not coming back to like a straight woman anymore.
So it's like phases.
And right now I'm exploring with this American boyfriend of mine.
And I think it's great because I am very deeply connected to him.
But also I could have my own freedom to explore other guys as well.
Can you define dating for me?
Dating for me would be two people meeting and they have some in-depth or not very, but
like they have some chemistry.
Usually I could go out with guys for a cafe, for example, but I wouldn't call that dates
if I don't have any feeling for them.
Okay, let's say you meet someone either on the app or on the street.
How do you decide when to go out to a cafe and it's a date or when to go out into a cafe
and it's just something casual or friends?
I haven't taken any time to think about it.
Usually it's just like a conversation going.
Well, before I got this interview with you, I was like just a few minutes earlier, I was
on Tinder and chatting with some guys and some of them really get in my nerve.
Like the way they text, they use so wrong emoticons.
They really get in my nerve and say, bye-bye.
But well, I would like people to start with not very cliche questions because my profile,
for example, I made it, I put so much effort in my profile about what I want to do and
what I don't want to talk about.
And sometimes people, they just don't read profiles at all.
And for those people, I say, bye.
Or people who really read or dig my profile, for example, they would know how to start
like a question that makes me interested.
And then the flow of the conversation just goes very naturally.
I don't like people to ask like, where do you live?
Like which district are you in?
What is your job?
How old are you?
Or like, what is your size?
How high are you?
Like those questions are so boring.
And I could just say bye immediately for those people.
Sorry, guys.
I'm really very strict.
Do you have, could you share some examples of some like good conversation starting questions
that people ask you?
Okay.
Let me go through my Tinder now.
Okay, so on my profile, I want to invite someone to go to gold digging with me, for example.
I'm so interested in gold digging these times or gemstone digging.
So if someone ever had any experience of gemstone digging or archery, they would say it right
away and they say, hey, let's go for it.
And I'm like, yeah, let's go.
So I don't have to ask them like, what are your interests?
They do have experience about that.
So I like live actions, I guess, over texting or well, I'm really digging these guys who
have artistic souls or they have some experience with yoga, meditation and cure time singing
and dancing.
So by looking at their photos and by them looking at my photos, we could have really
good flow together about what we like.
And usually I wouldn't spend like more than a couple of hours talking to them.
But if the flow is really exciting, then we just go meet.
Or at least if he's not in the city, then we have like a video call.
Well, that's this is something new no one has talked about.
How do you decide when to have a video call with someone?
Oh, when when we just say we just think that texting doesn't well, we really like each
other.
Right.
And we think that texting may not be can may not expose too much of our feelings or how
do you put this?
Like, we really want them.
I really want him to see my facial expressions as well, like just like what we're doing now.
You see me on Zoom and you see my smile.
I see his smile.
He sees mine and we kind of, you know, kind of fall in love for those moments.
Also not texting.
Texting is like we can't imagine.
And also beautiful.
He has to look handsome because well, I'm sorry, guys, but I just don't have any.
I don't have physical chemistries with guys who are not like my type of look.
When you are talking to people and planning a date, what kinds of things are you doing?
So Vietnamese guys are kind of boring.
They always invite me to cafes and I'm OK for cafes, actually.
But I think that's just like a little cliche and just a little traditional.
OK, Vietnamese guys are I think the worst dates that I'm sorry, Vietnamese guys.
Maybe I don't meet like interesting Vietnamese guys, but usually they on Tinder or Bumble,
what Vietnamese guys are going for is sex.
So the ones who expose their goals when chatting, then when they say so much about sex, I just
unmatch them right away.
But some people at the cafe, they start navigating the conversation into sex.
And I am very irritated with that.
But for some other guys, like Westerners, we well, usually we meet them as I well, like
for other activities as well.
For example, we go for a walk.
I go to their place just to see what their life is, how they're living.
I can't say that this is a date.
Well, maybe it's a date.
OK, so I met this very cool guy who did drag queen thing, and he was also a DJ.
And I came to his house and I just saw I just watched what he was doing, putting makeup
on his face, things like that.
So I'm really interested in people who have exciting stories or exciting activities, and
I want to see how they're doing.
And also, I sometimes invite people to my house because I have this beautiful house
that I just want to show people.
And I think that they might be interested in my life as well.
So yeah, I go to their place, they go to my place.
We go walking.
What else?
I think so.
Yeah.
That's it.
Can you tell me about a really great date that you've been on?
Well, I think the greatest dates would well, the people I'm going to talk about people
first, the greatest people that I find on Bumble and Tinder are usually people who I
get to know them like the authentic and genuine person for some time, even months or even
half a year until we become something.
So my current boyfriend is also a great date.
We met two years ago when I was having my ex boyfriend.
But then I was because I was so angry that my boyfriend at that time was on Tinder and
chatting and meeting people.
We were still monogamous.
I was still monogomous at that time.
But then I saw him doing that and I was like, oh, I have to make a revenge.
And then I went on Tinder and met my current boyfriend.
But then we were just friends and we went to exhibition and we went to, he was into
art.
We went to galleries and stuff like that.
And that was really good dates if that were those were dates because we we kind of get
to know each other in a very deep level, but not thinking about like we have to be something
like lovers or something.
It was just so naive and innocent kind of dating.
And then my the guy, he went back to United States for two years and we lost contact until
he came back to Vietnam.
I saw him again on Bumble and it was like, hey, do you remember me?
And then we went out and then at one point he said, I feel that there's something here
between us.
I don't know what it is, but I really want to to find out with you.
And then we started a relationship like that.
And this is the guy that you're still in an open relationship with.
Yeah, yeah.
And well, that that was really strange for me.
But then I am very thankful to this boyfriend that I'm having because although that he's
having lovers, but he's very mindful to talk to me in a very careful, caring way, a loving
way.
And I could also tell him all about my concerns and my fears and my negative feelings for
this this this new path that I went into.
And he would be there with me.
And together, we kind of overcame these emotions of mine.
So in one way, I think it's really great that there's someone who could also share my feelings
and be mindful of that for everything that happens around us.
What?
And let me think of how to phrase this.
Because you're so you're in an open relationship with him and you're still dating and he's
having lovers and dates and you're also having lovers and dates.
How do you discuss this with each other?
Is it there?
Yeah.
How do you manage this, I guess?
At first, I couldn't manage that in a good way.
I was jealous.
I had these I was texting him kind of I guess there were some times that I was angry or
I was revengeful or I just I don't well I was in really I was confused about what was
happening and he didn't like it.
And then we had to sit down and talk.
I said I was behaving that way because I've never feeling I've never felt or in I was
never in such a similar relationship.
And he was saying that I had a double standard because I also went out dating people but
then I'm just still jealous and I don't want him to have his lovers.
And I said you know that's that yes that's important for you.
It's a double standard thing.
But for me it's because I'm just in between these worlds.
I was a monogamous person.
And then I had this sense of ownership.
Like any other Vietnamese people person would have for their partner they have ownership.
They have jealousy.
So I still have that.
And I'm also walking into your world of you know polygamous thing.
So so I'm both exploring that new world but not you know not not yet overcome or you know
pass through that boundary that I had.
So I'm still in between the lines.
That's why I'm having double standards.
And you have to understand that for me.
But but I'm working with you.
I'm trying to process it with you.
And the more we talk the more we sat down and talk.
Now I'm at the phase of I could be able to talk with him about his lovers like oh how
was that blow job that you were having.
And your crush how is she now?
Is she accepting this open relationship that you're having or is she not.
And how are you feeling with it.
So right now I'm able to ask those questions without the feeling of jealousy.
But he's also concerned about what I'm feeling.
So so he would tell me some stories and then he would always stop and then ask me how are
you feeling.
Are you all right with these.
Yeah.
So I think that's that is a very new experience for me.
What is preventing you two from having this sort of long term closed relationship if that's
what you're looking for.
I'm not sure.
Well I do want some kind of commitment like hey I'm your boyfriend you're my girlfriend.
I think he did have a kind of commitment but I don't really understand what's in his mind
right now.
I think relationships are really very vulnerable.
I've been through a marriage of 10 years.
We were so committed.
That's why we went into marriage.
But then it broke.
And then I had another love and I was so committed to him.
It was I was supporting him with everything I've got and then it broke.
And now I'm getting to this relationship when he says no I'm not going to commit to you
but I'm mindful and I'm present with you.
And that's what the that's what important.
So I don't know if I'm looking for like a long term relationship with him but I'm feeling
that you know this is the most mindful relationship that we end also the most authentic or genuine
relationship that I can I can talk with him all about my hopes and my fears and also he
could talk about those.
So I'm not sure long term relationship is needed for this one.
And for him he he has some kind of fear about commitment because I think he was born into
a family who well his parents separated when he was very young and then his his life is
it was brought up differently than I am.
So he's very afraid of getting committed to one person.
So he's trying to avoid that by you know having multiple lovers.
So that's some mental problems that he's having.
And I don't want to deal with that right now.
So okay let's let's slide over to this like age thing because you're mid late 30s and
when you say you're looking for a long term partner what are you hoping to find with that.
Does that entail you know family careers friendship going out.
Do you want just the emotional thing.
Do you want a sexual.
Do you want a relationship.
Do you want to have a relationship with your ex.
So that's what I'm looking for.
So at my age I am looking for the deepest or a deeper connection with myself.
I have experienced some very bad time in the past 12 years in all kinds of situations in
love or in money in business in reputation everything.
And last year I decided to go on this spiritual journey to heal myself and then eventually
I got married to myself in December.
And after that I went on a self honeymoon in Bali for two weeks.
And I am very dedicated in spending the next this phase this phase of my life to get connected
to me in the deeper way.
And all the relationships that I'm having even like either boyfriends or lovers I want
them not to interfere with my spiritual journey but they will.
I like guys who have their own journey and I have my own journey and we could support
compliment each other's so that we if we stay together we don't stay together we become
better people after that.
What a cool journey you're on and to hear that you're yeah like you're dating and it's
great so long as you compliment each other and you help each other move forward and you
build each other up that is such a unique way of dating and looking for people.
And the people that you're dating what is the age range of the people you're looking
for?
I'm looking for people around my age so I'm 35 I'm looking for like 32 to 56 I think.
It jumps up a bit higher than it goes lower.
Yeah I really like older guys because they usually they have more knowledge and they
have wisdom and they've been through stuff so I could learn a lot from them.
Do you notice a difference in dating let's say a 32 year old versus a 56 year old besides
knowledge and wisdom?
Well I think guys in their 40s and in their 40s for Westerners they are really skillful
at sex and they still have strength.
That's an excellent observation.
Sex is part of dating that's true.
They are skillful they know how to please a woman and they are not that weak when I
think they get to 50 something many guys they like went down.
So something changes with age.
Yeah that's what I think about guys and when they're at their 30s I think they're strong
they have some skills but then I am a sapiosexual.
If they do not have this wisdom that I'm looking for then sex is still something that I say
oh yeah.
Can you for people who might not know define sapiosexual what does that mean?
Oh sapiosexual is you feel you're interested in a guy who has wisdom I think or who is
who has knowledge or who is smart.
So smart conversations smart information if you're into that then you're a sapiosexual.
Can you tell me we talked about the kinds of dates you're having and what kinds of things
you're doing and about great dates can you tell me about maybe like the worst date you've
ever been on?
Yeah I had one.
Well he well when okay so that was the point after my my marriage I got divorced I got
separated from my ex-husband and I began using Tinder because okay some information about
my past I was I was in love with him for two years and then in the marriage with him for
10 years he was my first boyfriend ever and he was you know Vietnamese guys sometimes
especially guys in the north they're alpha male so I never had any any other experience
than him and then after HA first one that was the first time I went on Tinder and then
I explored the this dating world that was about that was let's say three years ago yeah
that was three years ago and then I started dating all kinds of people I started having
sex with all kinds of people because that was the first time I knew what sex was my
ex-husband we kind of had sex like twice per year something like that and and he wasn't
really it was very vanilla sex and he didn't care about me at all anyway it's like exploring
this world of Tinder and it was like oh that's what dating is that's what sex is you know
that that ex-husband is like a son of a bitch and okay so that's and then I met this guy
and I went to a cafe with him and I was usually I would be so upfront to tell a guy everything
about me I don't hide things right and then he looked at me as if I was a very slutty
and a bitch he was like why are you spucking a lot of people like that that's a bad thing
you shouldn't do that that is that karma and so yeah I think that was the really worst
thing because people kind of judge me before they really know my story and my personality
and everything that what I've been through and they and they begin giving advices that
they think are good but it's so not relevant to me so yeah I those kinds of dates what
which people kind of are really close-minded and they judge people other people like except
especially me and I they hate those the most.
Yeah shit that's so unfair like it yeah give you a chance I mean who is someone random
to be like you're doing this wrong and a guy at that like telling a woman okay.
You know they take karma out to do to scare you that's the worst.
To follow up on what you just said about you know having this phase of dating and having
sex and getting to know other people and exploring basically how was that for you being you were
so you were 32 when that started.
Yeah I started at 32 and now I'm 35.
How has that driven you in what have you learned?
So at the first phase of tinder I had a really bad sex crisis and I couldn't concentrate
on any other thing in life other than just sex because that was when I had some explorations
about sex and I was I felt really bad of myself I because I just couldn't control myself and
then I met my second boyfriend also on tinder he was the first person to tell me that he's
not interested in sex he just wanted to have someone to hang out with in in artistic events
like museums and also galleries and at that time I he was like a savior of my life at
that time because he snapped me out of sex and got me into other interests.
So you know there are guys like that on tinder they are just so into something else and I
was grateful with to that and after that after breaking up with him I became more careful
in choosing who I date with.
It seems like I do have other lovers than my boyfriend but I choose them really carefully
and I usually take time to to to be friends with them first and I like guys who have who
have contents who have live stories and everything who are open-minded and also there's another
platform that I use I don't think it's like dating but all but it's like getting to know
people I'd like to include in this conversation with you that is Cowsurfing.
So Cowsurfing is a platform for it's like a hospitality network and from there I do
meet all kinds of people guys and girls and some of them eventually became my lover but
it's not intended at the first place because I don't use Cowsurfing for dating and keeping
them so separate but we um but because we don't think of of of that as a as a dating
site so we hang out and we talk just like friends and then after some time we we kind
of we get really interested in each other and then we date so I've got amazing people
on Cowsurfing to date with me thanks to that thanks to us not thinking about dating at
the first place.
Can you tell me what do you find the most enjoyable about dating?
By dating from dating I learned a lot well it could well I could say that we have a very
short life we cannot live like 10 lives of 10 different people but in meeting people
on any kind any platform there is meeting you guys and they're open to share their stories
and I learned so much and it feels sometimes like I'm living their life as well I could
live another life thanks to them and from that I think that I'm more open-minded I
I am more open to to the universe to my universe and I feel the universe is really abundant
to give me those lessons and those people those wonderful amazing people that I've met
and it opens my eyes and my heart as well.
That's a really beautiful answer just kind of on acceptance and appreciation for what
is to take a hard gear shift here what do you find the most frustrating about dating?
Oh frustrating about dating guys inviting me to have sex with them before they know
who I am that is really frustrating and some people in Vietnam also in dating sites they
met there are many guys who who want to find sugar babies and by sugar babies I think it's
a different way of understanding about this term in the western and the and in the eastern
world so sugar babies in Vietnam in Vietnamese literally it just means like they're looking
for prostitutes and it's really frustrates me that I don't really want to swipe on Vietnamese
guys anymore immediately when we say hi to each other and then they start these boring
conversations like what are you what do you do how old are you like what height what weight
your size body and then they ask like okay I'll meet you and I give you two million dollar
or two million Vietnam Dong per meeting you have to go to a hotel with me so I don't know
in other countries like in your country but in Vietnam people ask for the price and then
they give a surprise just as if girls are like some kind of commodity so that really
frustrates me.
Yeah I haven't experienced that here like at least in Europe and the US I know there
are specific apps and websites for sugar babies and it's girls who are on these apps and men
who are on these apps with the intention of a cash exchange but as far as just being approached
via Tinder or Bumble that hasn't happened I've been sent some pics that I did not ask
for I think that's can be expected across all apps but I've never been offered like
cash right up front.
I want to ask about some factors that come into play while you're dating so the first
one being your friend in social groups are the people that you're hanging out with and
spending time with are they dating are they single are they married are their parents
like what does that look like and how do you fit into that?
So I have a group of college friends that we kind of share these stories so I am a single
mom and I have the freedom to date.
I have another there's a friend of mine who's also a single mom and I and at her most desperate
time I told her you should go on Tinder so I'm well for my friends they think of me as
a Tinder ambassador or something I'm just like hooking everyone up to Tinder but then
my friend who is a single mom she eventually went on Tinder and she had her friends with
benefits and that really helped her a lot.
I think having a friend with benefit is really a great thing sometimes especially for ladies
in Vietnam who got divorced but they still have to spend a lot of time for a child or
the children then that would be needed.
So yeah I lured him at her to Tinder.
I have another friend so also I lured her into Tinder as well but she this lady she's
married and she had a very hard life with her husband and I told her maybe you should
just cheat a little and go on Tinder date someone and she did it and she had this fling
with a Malaysian guy and then her husband found out but that was the time but this really
this is a cool story as well so by finding out that she is using she was using Tinder
her husband had a really hard time thinking about all the things that he had done wrong
in this marriage that lead to this incident and then they sat down together and they said
okay so that's what happened right I am sorry he said I'm sorry for everything and now let's
just you know rebuild it and then they they did rebuild it and they're having a and then
they had a second son so yeah I think that for that particular case Tinder and the fling
really helped the marriage she was thankful to me that I lured her into Tinder.
Yeah I guess that it could be a relationship saver maybe they can use that as like a side
tagline like.
Well yeah who knows that's for some people that is the end of relationship but I think
in the end sometimes it's mean it also means a new beginning and for this particular couple
it wasn't the end but it was also a new beginning already so it's okay.
In Vietnam and Vietnamese culture is cheating something that happens or how yeah like okay
so in the US for example a lot of people cheat and a lot of people get divorced whereas like
in Europe there are apps now and you even seek see it on Tinder and Bumble there are
a lot of couples on these apps as profiles how is that in Vietnam?
Usually in Vietnam cheating is pretty popular I think I'm sorry about this I feel so bad
when I say this usually I don't I hate cheating myself I don't want to just lie to someone
I'd rather be honest with them about what's going on but in Vietnam there's this social
perspective on being a couple is you have to be monogamous and you have to stay loyal
and that's I think that's basically also happening everywhere in eastern especially in eastern
countries but many people deep down inside they feel that this is a very close relationship
that they want to just explode because when people are together for so long time they
crave for something new but then they have to stay loyal because of social norms so that's
why they cheat they go on Tinder they say I am married but I am looking for a sugar
baby and I'm willing to pay money and I think there are a lot of guys nowadays in Vietnam
who will understand deeply that they don't want to get a divorce but they are so they
feel the need they crave for something new and they want to they're willing to pay for
that new thing just to so they don't have to be any risk they don't have to pay any
other kind of responsibility to the girl and then they could just say goodbye to that girl
they they're tired of them or they want something newer but they never talk to their women or
to their wives about what's going on and I met one guy two days ago he's like that but
I'm into him just as a person because what he's doing his business that I'm interested
but he's very open to me about that topic as well so he he he cares about his wife and
his children and he wants to come home feeling new and feeling refreshed and feeling not
pressured because he had this very stressful business already and he has to find an outlet
just to to express all those things out so he wanted someone to talk to he want he really
wanted to have someone like a healer to talk to and he went online both finding sugar babies
to have sex with and both finding people to talk to so I think he well for most of the
Tinder guys the Vietnamese Tinder guys that I met he is he all he cheats but he's like
cheating in a responsible way anyway but I still prefer open relationships to those cheating
relationships yeah yeah when you're open at least you're being honest about it and upfront
about it you're not hiding the fact that you're also interested in and developing relationships
with other people swinging over to like some of this growth while dating let's say emotional
growth mental growth what are some things that you've learned about yourself what well
through dating these last few years oh I think dating life turned me into a wonderful lady
as I am now before dating I only dated one first boyfriend and I became his wife and
I never knew that I was that beautiful he never gave me any compliments about my physical
like my body or or how smart I was and everything like that but then like the more I date people
the more I know that they these people really appreciate something in me and and it reflects
on to me and and I also think eventually I knew of my weak points and also my strengths
I work to to improve myself because usually I really I am very I am an ambitious person
in life development so I'm thankful to this open relationship I'm having because even
though I have a boyfriend but I still meet other people and I could improve myself from
each date so one after another even for for lovers for example before this I tried to
find um expats because I don't want to you know have um loving relationship with people
to travel into the country but then I didn't have a lot of standards but the more I date
the more standards and the more careful I am in choosing them yeah I think I would agree
with you there the more I date the more I say okay well I know I like this I know I
don't like that and in some way the field gets narrower but in some way it also feels
good to know I am worth this time I'm worth this attention I know these are the people
that work for me and these ones maybe don't and that's okay that's also okay um when is
your next date tomorrow tomorrow afternoon I'm pretty active I think oh what are you
gonna do on this date and who is it with okay so um well I went on a date with him once
last October he's an Australian guy and he has something that I'm really interested in
so he's into music and he hosts different musical events and I went out with him once
that was the time that I was looking for like a boyfriend and eventually I got my current
boyfriend but recently we talked again and I tomorrow I'll take him to my family museum
because he's really interested in culture and history of Vietnam so I'm just going to
tell that and we will go to his place because he has this called the social club that he
hosts a lot of things and and he has different food and and drinks that he newly created
he's just recently got this menu that he really wants me to try well he he's really an interesting
guy I'm really interested really curious he lived in a place where he could look out the
window and see a lot of guys men um playing badminton and swimming naked so it's like
a sausage dance that I want to visit yeah I'm really interested to go to to his house
next time that sounds exciting and something new and different
yeah like a lot of guys and 10 guys being naked isn't that cool
hey um do you have any advice or words of wisdom that you could offer people on dating
I encourage everyone to to date and the more you date the wiser you get but also be mindful
and protect yourself well I think this is really an old saying but just be genuine be
authentic and and care for the other person as well and that's the um the most interest
the most important thing to get uh to achieve cool relationships whatever kind of relationship
that is
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