I'm Jonathan and I'm left of center.
And I'm Rich and I tend to lean a little bit more to the right.
But the bottom line is, is together we try to look for the balance of what it means to
be human in today's world.
All right, let's get started.
Welcome to Living in the Matrix everyone.
I'm Jonathan.
This is my co-host Rich.
Say hello, Rich.
Hey everybody.
Hope everybody's having a great Thursday near the end of the week and I believe this is
our third actual podcast guest this week, believe it or not.
And Brianna, we're absolutely thrilled to have you today.
Welcome.
Thank you, Rich.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So Brianna, I was scrolling through my Instagram and I get a lot of spiritual people in my
feed.
My feed is dialed for me and I come across a lot of people who think a lot like I do.
And I saw a video where you talked about a concept of tender revolution.
Like those are two dichotomous words.
Help me unpack what you, what's the big idea there?
Yeah.
Thanks, Jonathan.
So I'll rewind a little bit and then we'll get up to present day and then we'll probably
move forward together.
So we're just going to unpack it.
Yeah.
So my background, I was born and raised in Southern California.
I'm the oldest of four of a farming family and grew up resource poor and deep in the
evangelical born again, Christian Republican Zionist movement.
Just good old Anaheim Christian revival, Harvest Crusade, Gray Glory, the whole thing, the whole
thing.
Joel Austin, purity culture.
I was right up there with the Jesus freaks.
I'm jars of clay generation.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you're a creed, right?
Yeah, totally.
I was into like the Christian scar movement, got really into like the Jesus freak movement
and really got into some straight edge movement.
And from that actually found anarchy, which is a funny thing to kind of slide through
and not to overpass too many things.
But there was a big trauma that happened where our land was revoked in Southern California.
So in California, there's a lot of farm politics.
If your land lays fallow for four years, the state can legally revoke it at what they determined
to be market price.
That happened to my family.
So at 15 years old, I witnessed due to climate crisis, due to water shortages and also some
poor policies, including NAFTA, the North America Free Trade Agreement, which was passed
by Bill Clinton, a Democrat, which destroyed a lot of our small and medium sized farmers
all over the nation, including in Southern California.
I watched my dad spin into a depression, an incredible loss of this land and the understanding
of people to land started to land for me in a deeper way.
My dad, while Christian, would still speak to the plants, sing to the plants, connect
in his poetry to the cycles of life.
And my dad is a mystic in a lot of ways and really taught that the experience of God or
spirit is a physical experience.
It's not a mental experience.
It's not a concept.
It is felt in our bodies through our minds, which is never disconnected from our body.
It is a oneness experience and it's an overwhelming sense of love that cannot be explained.
I learned that from the Christian church, but then have relearned it again and again
and again in other ways that are not as exclusive and as dogmatic.
On my journey, I always held to this understanding that there are systems at play that control
us.
Then I got into spiritual work and yoga and personal development and went down the landmark
path and went down the ayahuasca path.
Grateful to all of my teachers and lineages, Shuar, Secopi, specifically in Ecuador, that
helped initiate my ayahuasca path when I was 23 years old and been walking this path for
16 years now.
And this journey of coming deep into my own healing, healing my body, disordered eating,
healing my sense of belonging, continually healing my sense of belonging.
And then in my late 20s, I returned to finish my master's degree in peace education with
the United Nations University for Peace.
And I've been straddling these worlds of the conversation of systems of oppression, collective
liberation, talking about imperialism, white supremacy, capitalism, and patriarchy as harmful,
systemic.
They're made into the systems and also the need for personal healing, how we each as
individuals are infinite love.
We are all inherently connected.
We are all one human family.
But the systems we've created on the planet puts white, rich, middle-aged men at the seat
of most decision tables, not all, but the most.
And the concentration of wealth on the planet at this time for 5% of the human population
to own 80% of our needed natural resources feels wildly out of balance with what I know
to be true from my personal healing path, which is all beings are one being.
Are integrated.
Yeah.
Your care, your health is linked to mine.
Your safety, your freedom, your ability to be in your erotic sensuality, your deep masculine
presence, all of that is connected to me too.
Our freedom is inherently connected.
So the systems of nations, the systems of solo economies, the systems of individualism
that have been established over the past 4,000 years with the rise of agricultural based
empire, we have siphoned off our connection to the most powerful force, which is mother
earth and love through colonization, through empire expansion, and taking that spiritual
connection to mother earth and channeling it into religions that are then controlled
by the government and the government also controlled by the religious institutions.
And when we break off that umbilical cord from mother earth and infinite love, we're
very easily controlled.
So it's that personal healing journey where I see people get stuck in the matrix is in
one of two things.
One, they don't want to go on the personal healing journey.
It's too scary.
I'm going to stay numb.
Oh, sure.
Right.
Very understandable.
It's allowed to feel.
He's got the steak.
He gets plugged back in.
He's got his wine.
He's got a cigar.
He's already, um, absolutely betrayed everybody.
And he's like, put me back in, make me somebody famous.
And he's just, he didn't get it.
Yeah.
So he got that his contribution to the tender revolution may or may not be felt by him in
this lifetime.
So what's the point?
Right.
So there's this journey of like not wanting to wake up or this journey of waking up and
then not fully waking up.
And then there's this journey that people have been calling waking up in the spiritual
sense of like all beings are one being, but the translating of that into our daily actions,
the way we spend our money, who we support online, how we spend our tax dollars, the
formation of our governments, the formation of education systems hasn't quite translated
over yet.
And so for me, the word tender revolution has come from this heroes, gamos or masculine,
feminine dance.
Like for me, the spiritual journey is that feminine, the external structural is the masculine
and we don't need to destroy one or the other, but there wants to be a joining of the two.
How does our personal journey affect collective liberation?
If we as, especially as white people are not standing for black lives matter, but we're
drinking ayahuasca in the jungle, that to me is a wild contradiction that when we have
that experience of all beings are one being, when we have that physical experience and
we see systems of oppression at hand and we see a system that has been in place for hundreds
of years that is systematically murdering people in our own backyard and we don't say
anything about it.
That is a disconnect and it is a process just like waking up spiritually as a process.
That spiritual waking doesn't happen overnight.
Doesn't happen from one Instagram post.
Doesn't happen from one podcast.
It takes going in again and again, it takes yoga.
It takes breath work.
It takes multiple times.
Oh, I'm here to take responsibility for myself.
The next level of awakening is I am also here to contribute my gifts to those who are being
most oppressed by the systems of oppression right now.
That is where the Bodhisattvas vow that all beings are one being.
I'm going to come back until all beings are freed from suffering.
There's that personal responsibility piece and then there's the waters that we swim in
of collective liberation and Tender Revolution isn't denying either side of that.
It's saying there is a personal responsibility we each get to take.
There's also systems at play that me as a singular person, you as singular people can't
shift.
But as a collective, as a collective, we've created them and as a collective, we can shift
them.
I intuitively feel, I don't know, but I feel that when it comes from that personal healing
place of like we do want a better world for everyone, we do.
We have experience.
We don't just believe we've experienced that we are all one family and we demand as a mass
collective we demand that our systems reflect that.
That's a tender revolution.
It's coming to the point in personal healing where we can't not feel the beauty of this
planet and we can't not feel the needless brutality that exists because human beings
are stuck in their trauma patterns and then playing that out in the world for them as
well.
Okay.
That was a great intro to the idea.
I want to unpack it a little bit and start out a little earlier in your journey.
Did you feel God's love?
When did you start going to church?
In utero.
My parents were in church.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You were a full lifelong person.
Lifelonger.
I started going when I was five.
I think my mom probably went before that.
I grew up in the church too.
I've listened to my own story and I have always felt a deep connection to what I believe
is source that I found through Jesus that was very real.
It was felt.
Did you have that?
Absolutely.
I've never felt, even when I broke up with Jesus, I never felt disconnected from that
love, right?
Whether I called it Jesus or sometimes I called it ayahuasca or sometimes I've called it
the goddess.
There is no name to name this name.
Once we name it, it is no longer the Yahweh, the ineffable.
I've always felt it and continue to feel it.
Yeah, ultimately there's a lot to unpack with Christianity and evangelical Christianity
that I find very problematic, but at its core, I'm so grateful for the seeds that were planted
by my parents and even by the church speaking in tongues as a young girl, opening up to
light language when I'm not even speaking English yet.
Okay, yeah, let's get our kids moving that energy.
There was a lot that I received from that that feels like ancient key codes that have
made it through the lineage even with as much politicization and control and domination
that Christianity and Catholicism by extension have exhibited to individuals and entire cultures.
Very problematic.
There is a core within every religion, I believe that is true.
There is a core prayer connection message and I definitely felt that in my Christian
upbringing.
Yeah.
I read the Bhagavad Gita recently and the guy who narrates it or translates it alludes
to Dionysus the Arapagite and a variety of the mystics.
And when you think about source and there's a lot of Hindu priests, a lot of Catholic
priests who have syncretized Hinduism and it's really at the end of the day, we're
starting to realize that whether it's atheism or religion, if you're an atheist but you
believe in the quantum field and eventually go down to the unified field, which is source,
which is consciousness, then we're all going to be starting to agree on the same thing.
You call it whatever you want to, it's the same thing.
That is the place where we would love to see a migration.
And I think you're talking about the end of the world recently.
You actually I don't think I've posted a while on Instagram, but one of your posts from a
while back dealt with like are we near the end of the world?
And I think one of the things that we're seeing a shift in is there's this groaning that you
see in the book of Romans is creation is groaning.
People are feeling like on a precipice and it is not just a mental thing.
It is a physical thing.
Tell our audience what you feel, what you've experienced and how perhaps we can learn through
this, this feeling that's happening right now.
Yeah, I think that's a great question, Rich.
And there's that kind of existential feeling.
Very physically, I am evacuated from my home right now.
I live near Big Bear, California.
We were evacuated on Sunday due to wildfires, wildfires.
Thirty seven thousand acres have been completely scorched.
There are over three hundred wildfires in California right now.
Eighty three percent of them were started by arson.
Five two thousand pound bombs that are dropped in Gaza, these are dropped about every ten
minutes, five two thousand bombs in Gaza cost more than the entire budget of California
firefighting for an entire week.
Wow.
So there is the issue of wildfires.
That's a natural thing that happens.
There's the issue of stewardship with the land.
If the indigenous, the Tongva, Gabrielino, the Yuhavietam, the indigenous of the land
where I'm from, if they were allowed to do wildfire, like controlled burns in the spring
or the firefighters controlled burns in the spring, as we used to steward the land before
empire, we stewarded the land.
We were stewards of the land and animals, as it even says in Genesis, right?
You're to be stewards, hub husbands of the land, husbands of these animals.
There was a time when we as human beings had a more synchronized relationship with cycles
in the land.
If we were doing burns, there wouldn't be as much brush to catch in this way combined
with the hottest week of the year that we've ever seen in human history consecutively,
combined with the change of winds due to climate shifting and other places in the world that
are experiencing floods, which off casts the entire system.
So we're seeing this both individual, the personal healing that would need to take place
for someone who thinks that arson is a good idea.
It's a personal healing journey.
We're seeing the need for collective addressing of what mental health actually is, an emotional
and spiritual cry of human beings, right?
Suicide, addiction, arson.
I consider all of these as like traumatic systems, traumatic responses of personal healing
that has not been tended to.
And then a system at play that doesn't address them, but then makes them criminals.
These are people who are responding to trauma, not to say that this is okay and not to say
that arson, whatever, but to understand that this is a system and an individual piece.
And this is one piece of Southern California.
This is happening around the world.
So this angst that we're feeling is literally, I'm a climate crisis refugee right now.
That's part of it, right?
We were watching live genocide for 11 months.
This is the most televised genocide on Palestine that we have ever seen in our lifetime.
Daily, I've seen children blown up.
Daily, I've seen mothers wailing over their children.
Daily, I'm reporting on 6,000.
Now 9,000, 12,000 Palestinian prisoners.
78% of them are under the age of 15.
Are you having access to this because of your United Nations experience?
I mean, most people don't see this.
Obviously, you know this.
I mean, it's all a bloody facade about everything that the mass media doesn't want you to see,
you won't see, right?
You've got to find it through other channels.
How are you actually getting more visibility?
Because we're not seeing this on our normal news feeds here and there.
Yeah.
And like Jonathan said so well, so many of our news feeds are very curated to what it
is that we're interested in, right?
So my work has led me into this conversation.
I've got healers in my space, but I've also got people who are deep activists who are
on the ground.
I have a friend who's in the West Bank.
I have two students who are in Jerusalem who are both Palestinian living in Jerusalem,
probably one of the more dangerous situations for them to be in other than in Gaza itself
and the personal connections that I've had.
And then from there, following accounts of people who are on the ground and following
media sources that for the past 15 years, 20 years now since I was 18, that I've trusted
with on the ground accurate reporting and knowing that all beings are one being and
standing in that place also of, and colonization is wrong.
We're not meant to take land from each other.
We're not meant to settle land in any way.
We're meant to learn how to belong to the earth.
And so it's a question, yes, of states and things like that, but even deeper into the
feeling it's like, we know as human beings, we're not supposed to be doing this.
And so whether someone is in direct fire of genocide, witnessing it in Congo, Ethiopia,
Sudan, Palestine, the war in Ukraine, we're talking about invasions in West Papua, New
Guinea, the calls in Puerto Rico to become their own country.
And Hawaii is asking for their country to be given back to them and the genocide of
the indigenous people that happened there to be acknowledged by America.
People are talking about it.
It's being put out into our energy field.
So we're going to feel it even if we're not seeing it on Instagram.
And it's very easy to look at one account, Queen of Palestine and her on the ground experience
of what it's meant to be a Palestinian there for the past 30 years of her life.
And not just these past 11 months, but 76 years of illegal settler occupation in this
land and a people who feel so confused and frustrated that they've been protecting the
Holy Land for thousands of years.
And these are Jews, these are Christians, these are Muslims who are considered Palestinian
who are being identified and annihilated.
And so I think the feeling, it can be overwhelming, I think, for people who haven't started to,
like the matrix is a personal programming within ourselves that has us believe that
we are not worthy.
The larger matrix of the world has us believe that we have to rely on the systems of military
industrial complex, specifically our dependency on fossil fuels.
This is all about that deeper conversation.
The Wachowski brothers got it at the beginning because you've got Morpheus who knows that
Neo has to be the answer.
One thing's got to give, right?
We're doing the same thing the same way, expecting a different outcome.
And the other guy wants all the ships to be ready.
So even in the microcosm of the movie, that's being played out exactly as you say, here's
our solution.
Let's keep doing it this way.
And you're absolutely right.
This is why we need source.
We need the divine.
We need, call it the divine feminine, if you would, to come in.
And finally, it's been pushed aside for so long to make this change.
We want it to come from within, but it also has to be extant too.
In my mind, Neo had, he figured it out ultimately, but he needed a catalyst.
He needed training.
He needed help.
I mean, he finally got it.
And yeah, it was him.
He was the one.
But I think we need something external to really light the fire to get things going.
And it's going to have to be a cosmic movement in my mind.
I don't, unless we all do ayahuasca and meditate together and find what breath work, I don't
know if that's going to happen.
Cause I know that could be a solution, right?
And in a, in a very grassroots way.
Well, I think there we're at a, at a, we've never experienced a world like we have today.
There's AI on top of a massive deconstruction movement.
That's like huge now.
People are waking up to this.
It's almost like the, um, the old masculine structures that are dominant masculine are
being torn down.
And I think we've talked a lot about this, you know, you know, revelations it's, I think
we're in the apocalypse right now, but that apocalypse is not going to look like the movies
at all.
It's going to be the loss of identity and the loss of this old way of doing things because
Rich and I talk about it.
Coherence is the balance of the masculine and the feminine.
That's the sweet spot.
And when that is true, it's there's peace.
And I think that's what people are really looking for is they're looking for something
that doesn't look like old time religion, but they have no experience of what that really
looks like in their lives.
And so they feel lost to take the next step forward, but it's getting so bad financially
that we can't keep up the facade anymore.
You know, so everything's crumbling right now.
Feels like it.
Yeah.
And people are trying to adjust and there's no old way of adjusting to this because we've
been a masculine age for 6,000 years and we're moving into a feminine age, but women don't
want to, but this is my take take is women don't want to reverse the tables and rule
everything like men did.
They're smart enough to learn from what the men did wrong and say, no, let's, we need
balance.
We need to work together.
It's like the truth is the coming together.
So that's what I love about the tender revolutionary part is it feels both masculine and feminine.
And I don't think any movement is going to really succeed without both.
Yeah, I fully agree.
I fully agree.
It's also a place for the rising feminine of like the teeth, like women we've been told
to be corseted for a long time.
We're pissed.
We're angry.
We're angry as, as a woman who stepped into her mother archetype.
Those are my children who are being starved intentionally in the name of cobalt for our
phones in Congo.
Those are my children who are being displaced.
The 6 million people in Sudan.
Those are my people.
That's my family.
And the people who are in power, be they men or women are playing into the toxic patriarchy,
right?
Which is the metrics of man or the metrics of patriarchy is the externalized show of
force.
Not that I have to dominate you, but I could in any moment.
Don't you forget it.
And that's that white God in the sky that we've all had to deconstruct in a lot of ways.
Like the, the thing that's always watching me and like the reward and punishment system
and the inevitable, like I'm a sinner and I already started off behind the start line.
Like all of that deprogramming to get to a point that says, Oh, we've created our governments
to mimic the spiritual structures of that white imperialist, supremacist, patriarchal
God in the sky.
We've mimicked the, the Judeo Abrahamic Christian structure so much so that the vengeful God,
the punishing God is played out in our politics.
And we're like, well, those people deserved it.
They were terrorists.
Oh, those people deserved it.
They were, you know, if they would have prayed more, maybe they wouldn't have had a famine
in Ethiopia or maybe if they were the chosen ones, they wouldn't be starving and go, or
maybe if they were Christian, they would be doing this.
Or maybe if they were that, and that, that idea that someone else's suffering is for
me to either ignore pity or even charity.
We're missing the point spiritually.
It's solidarity.
The point of suffering on this planet for those of us who aren't actively suffering
is to be in solidarity with those who are our privilege.
White skin, money, cars, credit cards are not bad things.
We don't have to be ashamed because we have this access.
We get to stand and say in a sustainable way, in a regenerative way, in a right relationship
way with mother earth, can we give this to everybody on the planet?
Not just me and mine, everybody, no exceptions, because I've seen truth.
I've tasted it.
I've felt it in my womb.
All beings are one being.
I want, I want my sister in Sri Lanka to be able to go out and get into university education.
I want my sister in Jerusalem to be able to go get her nails done.
I want my sister in Turkey to walk down the street and not fear that she's going to get
kidnapped, but I can't even guarantee for that for myself right now in Los Angeles,
California, that the idea that there is a connection between this rise of the feminine
and that what we're going to see and what I want to invite into this space is more permission
for those who've been oppressed to express their rage, grief, and anger because we can't
get to peace without justice.
Absolutely.
There's been a wild lack of justice for people who've been oppressed.
So I find that my role a lot of times is to invite people into their rage and grief as
a spiritual practice, not to avoid it.
Let's not meditate it away.
You don't need to drink the medicine away.
Those are tools to access what has been lying underneath all of us.
No matter how much privilege we've had, we've all been through trauma in this lifetime,
right?
We've all experienced domestic violence, sexual assault, or systems of oppression in one way
or another, either as the oppressor or the oppressed in all of those situations.
And to understand that it's not our fault this exists, but it is our responsibility
to shift it.
It's not our fault that this is our patterning.
It's not our fault that white supremacy has bled around the planet.
And here we are as white people speaking about spirituality.
But to name it and say, hmm, if I have white skin and there would be people who look like
me and I could say something like, free Palestine, or I could say something like, try this meditation,
or I could say something like, Black Lives Matter, or I could say something like, all
beings are one being and we get to stand for the most oppressed.
People will listen to you as a white man differently than they will listen to me as a woman.
And that's just part of patriarchy right now.
That doesn't mean you're the bad guy.
That's the piece where I'm like, and we've got to unite because I think white dudes are
getting a lot of the flack and then they run away from collective liberation.
They run away from activism because it's like, oh, it's the white dude just benefiting from
his privilege.
And for you to say, I mean, like, you know what, I do have privilege.
I can get pulled over by the cops and my first thought isn't if I'm going to get shot.
I call the police if I have a problem, right?
To stand in that and just say, I see, I see you, black brother.
I see you, black sister.
I believe you.
And I'm going to use my privilege for the work of all beings are one being.
It doesn't mean you deny your white privilege.
It means you say, what can I do with this blessing, this privilege, this weird curse
and blessing that I've been gifted in this lifetime?
What can I utilize this for as a key to bring other voices on stage who wouldn't be heard
to give access to people who otherwise wouldn't have access or just name the things that people
will listen to you differently than they listen to me or if I was a brown or black skinned
woman or if I was overtly queer, right?
I consider myself queer, but I present as heteronormative.
So the way people interact with me is different than they interact with someone who's very
obviously transgendered or very obviously more in their queer expression.
And so I just invite that in because I think the uniting of the masculine and feminine
is a few things for me.
One to not demonize men.
You are not the problem.
Patriarchy is the problem and men and women and non-binary people participate in that.
Patriarchy is a system that says might is right.
If you can take it, you should take it.
If you can dominate, you should.
If you can win, you should take as much as you can from that natural resource and keep
taking until it's completely dry.
It's like masculinity on steroids and anything that expresses masculinity, lots of money,
lots of power, lots of fame, that that is somehow more valuable than intuition, feeling,
deep connection, relationship.
Those things of the masculine are not bad.
Like making money, providing, protecting, being a structure.
We need that.
It's just there's been too much of it and that's been the only thing that's been celebrated.
Yeah.
In our systems at play.
But we also can't do away with protection and can't do away with a good financial system
or integrity or being true to your word, you know, like these beautiful things.
So part of the tender revolution, and you said it so beautifully, Jonathan, is acknowledging
the pieces of the masculine in myself and in you and in others that I'm like, yeah,
we need that.
And can we utilize the masculine to address the toxic patriarchy?
It's like the episode of X-Men when Professor X gets taken over by this like entity and
he becomes like this uber intense Professor X and is making them all train crazy and like
is starting to turn them into villains.
It's like Professor X is still in there.
We just need to extract the being from Professor X and be like, be our Professor X, be the
men you're meant to be, be the masculine even in me that we're meant to be.
Can we do it without the need to dominate?
Can we do it with an open heart and balance of the feminine of like I've been touched
by Mother Earth and the beauty of the feminine within myself, within my own emotions, and
I can empathize with those, I believe those who are saying that they're oppressed.
I'm here to utilize my gift of the masculine to build structures and systems to hear the
people who've been oppressed by my ancestors or oppressed by people who look like me or
oppressed by people who I used to have lunch with.
And not to say them and you, but to make that distinction of like, and I'm working on deconstructing
the systems of harm in me.
I'm working on it.
And I constantly have to say that I say things all the time that are flippant or from privilege
or from ignorance, like unknowing ignorance of just being on this path.
And so yeah, that's what I just want to invite in the space of like connection and collaboration
and how that personal healing journey can support both of you and anyone listening into
our, I believe our soul's purpose is to unite, be in unity, emotionally, spiritually, mentally,
nationally, globally, one human race, right?
Acknowledge our differences, celebrate our cultures, celebrate the food, celebrate the
hit, the celebration, like rather than this competition and war and genociding and extraction
of natural resources, no more, no more raping mother earth.
So let me give you a contrast of kind of the first 30 minutes, because I think that was
really a good balance.
You started with the common narrative of the white rich male, which I mean, I grew up in
that narrative and you ended with celebration.
How do you include the white rich male in that celebration?
I think that's a very funny question because, no, because it asks the question of the perpetrator.
Totally, totally.
And this conversation of like, well, white rich men are welcome everywhere, right?
Like they could literally walk into any hotel.
I'm just speaking from the side of- You've been put on a lot lately.
Yeah.
Right?
Historically, that is absolutely true.
Right.
And in this narrative that I choose to subscribe to of all beings or one being of like, you're
me too, right?
My dad is, my dad's a white male.
He's not rich, never been rich, but like, how do I personally include someone like you
is to be in this conversation and to come on this podcast, right?
Like you and I were chatting on Instagram and then you made a comment on a video that
I reposted that was, I'm too spiritual to care about the war was the song.
And the song was this kind of like satirical, like, I'm just too spiritual to care about
the war.
And my critique was, it's really frustrating for me.
My yoga teachers, people I've sat with in plant medicine ceremony, people who've called
me teacher, people who I've worked with for decades, people who I've helped build podcasts,
people who I've coached, I come to them and I've been in a dialogue with them, not just
like one Instagram comment.
I'll be super clear.
But in dialogue with them around, Hey, October 7th happened.
Palestinians are asking us to repost.
I believe it's our work if we're going to be in spiritual leadership to name genocide,
to name the poly crisis, as it's been called by my teacher, critical, which is the eco
sides around the planet, the multiple genocides, suicides, addictions and state sanctioned
homicide, prison systems to start talking about these things from a spiritual perspective.
So I entered into a dialogue, months of dialogue from like end of October, March is when I
started calling it out of like, look, Jay Shetty, I'm not taking your shit anymore.
And you've been off putting and not answering my calls.
And you and I used to be tight.
And now you're saying that you're going to lose money if you name that what is happening
as a genocide.
Right?
So I started calling friends forward and started naming things and then this video came up.
And Jonathan made a comment on the video somewhere around, I don't even remember exactly what
it was, but people came after him of like, Hey, what you're saying is exactly what this
song is saying is yes, we all need peace and yes, we all want love and yes, we want positivity.
But for people who are being actively bumped, they first need empathy and witnessing and
a naming of what is before we can jump to that conversation of oneness or light or joy
or celebration.
There needs to be an empathy of like, I see you, I feel you.
And so that would be my response here too.
It's like, if I could have gotten in dialogue with you, I've like, ah, I feel your heart,
Jonathan.
I don't think you're trying to say that the Gazans don't matter.
I don't think you're saying that genocide is the answer, but when the first step is
to say, but we're all one or we're all light for a child who's just lost their parent,
for a parent who's just lost their child, which is the reality that we're living in
to take a breath and say, how can I get your world?
So that's where I would start is if I want to include someone in the conversation, be
like, what's, what's alive in your world, what has brought you into this space?
What has your personal healing journey been?
What are you working on and how do we connect that?
If you're willing, can we connect that to the larger systems of oppression, domination
and ultimately liberation?
Because I believe every personal trauma that you've ever had is connected to systems of
oppression, domestic abuse, violence, racism, classism, sexism, ableism, and the assumptions
that are put on you as white presenting, able-bodied presenting, heteronormative presenting.
That doesn't mean that you are any of those things.
That's how you present the projections and the stereotypes that are put on you are also
traumatic, the metrics that you've had to live up to as a man in this culture of not
expressing your emotions, of not saying when you are sad, but expressing anger instead
of sadness, not being able to cultivate empathy in circles because men circles are not encouraged
for a long time, not being able to say, Hey, I need a day off work for mental health or
for emotional reasons.
That is also traumatic.
And so I would empathize, use the bridges that I know around systems of oppression and
personal healing, and then hear you.
I'd want to hear you.
The way to connect with anyone is to actually get them talking.
Yeah.
Well, that's everybody.
Everybody talks about having that dialogue and it to be free and open and honest.
And then you'll see a lot of people start to shut that down.
No, we're reserving this.
I mean, here's what the mainstream Republicans have been saying in the past, the Democrats
were the one that were open to everything.
And now they're the ones shutting everything down on campus.
Right?
Like, no, you can't show up here.
You're an asshole.
Goodbye.
And it could be true if that person is an asshole and they really are there as a polemicist
and not really try to engage in open ideas and come with a script.
Right?
And so one of the things I wanted to go back to though is how we do become unified, because
I have two examples I wanted to share with you and they're kind of lame, but they're
out there.
And so the perfect example is we just recently had National Indigenous Peoples Day, right?
It used to be called Columbus Day.
And you watch this cartoon where the armies of Cortez come in and it's happy Indigenous
Peoples Day as they watch the Aztecs ripping each other's hearts out and a thousand bodies
go down to Chichen Itza.
Right?
All bloodied for the sacrifices of that group.
And then somebody says, well, so you think we're bad.
Wait until you see what we took over.
Right?
So there's a silly kind of way of going back to that.
And if you go to another example, it's like Christianity has caused all the problems in
the world.
It's like, whoa, you think Christianity has caused the problems?
Why don't you go look at Mao?
Why don't you go look at Stalin?
Why don't you look at the 20, 40 million people that were killed as a result of this godless
kind of construct?
So how do we get ourselves in the position that those soldiers in Cortez's army are the
same people as the Aztecs that they killed?
How do you, I mean, what happened as they went from La Paz all the way up to California
and brought smallpox and disease and pain and suffering all along the way, how do we
get ourselves in a mindset of instead of this comparative dissing and making ourselves feel
better, we say we actually are that, we actually did it to ourselves.
You know what I mean?
Because making that gap, bringing that together to me seems to be half the problem.
And you started by saying, well, we have a dialogue at least, but how do we move past
these?
How do we get to the collective dialogue?
Yes.
And how do we get to a unified construct?
Because you have to, people don't believe, people don't believe that we're the same
people armed every day in Gaza, they think it's all propaganda.
Show me the rapes, show me the beheadings of the babies is what people are saying on
the Palestine side.
Wait a minute, you told us that we came in and the Palestinians came in and we cut the
hell out of all these babies, that we raped all these women, we did all these things.
Show me the videos.
You keep telling me how terrible it is, show it to me.
And sometimes I'm like, I'm kind of aiming on those guys.
I didn't see anything.
And so it's this, this is where I get confused, right?
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, I feel you.
So I think it's helpful when we actually have evidence, like facts can be really helpful
in these times.
And so we'll just kind of go step by step.
Like one, the Palestinian genocide has been really well documented and the Hannibal directive
would be really good to look up of what the IDF, also known as the IOF, the Israeli Occupational
Forces were demanded to do on October 7th.
So the reason why they don't have evidence on the Israeli side of the rapes or beheading
of the Israeli children is because that didn't happen.
And that doesn't mean that October 7th was a good thing or I would never wish upon anyone's
family to experience a hostage situation or murder.
Murder and hostages did happen.
The layers that were put on top of it around rape and beheading of babies and putting babies
in ovens was to create like a 9-11 frenzy to justify what had already been planned next.
So then when we look at pictures and the United Nations, which is a very trustworthy organization
when it comes to their research, not for everything, but for their research, they're very good
at academic research.
They're not very good at action in the world.
They're not very good at follow through.
Okay.
They're very good at academic research, researching what has already happened.
They're not very good at forward thinking.
They're very good at numbers and data.
159 countries in the world are saying this is genocide and are calling for the end of
the state of Israel.
159.
Yeah.
Three oppose Israel, the United States, and Ukraine.
Yeah.
So when we just look at the numbers, when we just look at like the facts in that, I
have Israeli Jewish friends who I love dearly.
I have friends who are Zionists who I've had to step away from.
I know their heart.
The conversation that I continually go back to with them, with other people that I'm not
in unification with is to understand their world and stand in my core values.
Understand their world and stand in my core values.
Open up more to what could be possible, be willing to learn even as I stand convicted
in my core values.
So there's that dance.
The fact check around like the Aztecs and the Spanish coming.
So the Spanish, yeah, they were responsible for about 40 million deaths.
The Aztecs had a ceremonial practice and the Aztec nation was actually only from Mexico
down a little bit into Costa Rica.
So they weren't the full- The Mayas, the total.
South America.
The Olmecs, you had a lot.
The Mayas are also in Mexico.
The Incas, which are from Panama all the way down to South America, were known for zero
human sacrifice.
Zero.
Zero human sacrifice.
So the Aztecs were known for human sacrifice.
They did it twice a year and the people who were sacrificed volunteered.
Volunteered.
So I'm not saying that human sacrifice is a good thing.
I'm not saying that that's a good idea.
I'm not advocating for that.
But when we start to equate a spiritual practice that was done twice a year, about 40 people
each time to the mass genocide of over 400 million Indigenous First Nations from Canada
all the way down to Patagonia and associate all of these people with one practice.
So it's not that what you're saying isn't true.
It's just the way that it's conflated and the story that's told about it is very important.
So I think the piece of building unity is to first come in with what we're responsible
for and what we can take responsibility for.
So when I'm in mixed race spaces, when I am one of the only white people in Indigenous
spaces, which happens a lot, when I am navigating conversations between my Black community,
my Latino community, Indigenous community, white community, because there is separation,
there is separation, and I'm wanting to bring unity, I ask a lot of questions.
And then when it's time for me to speak, I say, my name is Brianna.
I'm the daughter of Randy and Susie, granddaughter of Barbara, Brian, Lino, and Josephine.
My ancestors are from the Celtic nations, Ireland, Scotland, North Europe, and from
the Corte de la Sierra, the beautiful Alps, Etruscans and Sabines.
And I know from my personal history that some of my ancestors were settlers on this land.
They took land that wasn't theirs.
And I can't apologize for them.
It's not my fault that it happened, but I am here as a responsible human to do what
I can to make it better.
And I understand that my skin color can be triggering for certain people.
And I understand that I might say things that might offend you from my unconscious place
of not recognizing my own privilege.
And I'm here to do the best that I can, and I'm here to learn.
That diffuses a lot because it's like, I am already showing that I'm receptive.
I'm not here to defend myself.
I'm not like those white people.
I'm not like the colonizers.
Maybe I am.
Maybe there is something racist in me still.
Maybe there is something in me that's still playing into patriarchy.
I'm a pretty young woman.
I know how to move my thing.
That's patriarchy.
That's women who play the patriarchy.
We play into the maid and we get what we want.
That's patriarchy.
Or white supremacy.
I'm perfect.
I'm pure.
I'm of the light.
White supremacy.
So I can catch myself in certain things.
And there's still some things that I'm in unknowing ignorance about.
And when I acknowledge that in a space, it's like you could literally deflate.
There's a relaxation of like, oh, we don't need to.
And I also make it very clear.
I believe you.
I believe that a genocide to the indigenous happened.
I believe that the lands that I live on, these are Tongva-Gabralino lands.
This isn't Los Angeles, California.
This is 10,000 years.
This was Tongva-Gabralino lands.
And I can just name that.
And with no shame in my body either of like, oh, I'm the heavy white person who's done
horrible things.
Maybe I'll be a better white person by being a...
No.
No shame either.
They don't want collapse.
People who've meditated, people who've done their breath work, drank their ayahuasca and
said, all beings are one being.
I come in the light and I understand that I'm an ignorant motherfucker, but I'm here
to love with my heart and learn a little bit more.
I'm here to listen.
I've found that that instant, instant platform for people and then other people come forward.
Oh, I come from this.
Oh, I come from that.
Here's how I've been oppressed or here's how I've oppressed others.
It opens up for taking personal responsibility in a collective when you go first taking responsibility.
It doesn't solve everything, but it is like a solvent that just starts like, oh, there
are people who are willing to listen.
There are people, white people doing the spiritual work and learning how to listen to the indigenous
who've been saying stop killing mother earth for the past 4,000 years.
What is now being said by climate scientists has been said by your ayahuasquitos and their
lineage for thousands of years.
May we receive that transmission from these plants as much as the personal healing, as
much as that infinite n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-fractal lovingness.
May we receive the transmission of the trees and the people who've tended them as well.
Yeah, so again, this isn't an answer of like how to create unity, but when things are rough
and you're entering into spaces where you know people are going to be on the defensive,
like literally taking the swords off your back, placing them down, taking your shield,
placing it down, I'm not here to defend or dominate.
I'm here to learn.
Yeah.
Well, they can read your heart too.
You can say it, but you also feel it and then it's palpable, right?
And so I think that's a huge thing.
Yeah, and if you feel it, they'll feel it.
That's the power of the coherence that you were speaking of, Jonathan.
Coherence, that term actually means to be in resonance, to be in the same frequency.
Literally my heart is pounding.
The words that I'm saying are literally flowing through the filter of my heart.
You can feel it.
Even if you weren't hearing my words, just feeling the tenor of my voice, feeling the
urgency and the love in my heart because all beings are one being, even if it's through
a screen.
Our electromagnetic frequency is billions of times more powerful than this screen or
this light.
You know what I mean?
It's the tool for our connection.
And so yeah, I appreciate you speaking to that too.
It's like we've got to feel that truth.
These aren't words to create a spell over people or to manipulate them or to make something
happen.
This is a conjuring of portals to open up.
May we open and may we support others in opening by creating safety around us.
Brianna, you said earlier that you…I don't want to put words in your mouth, so remind
me if I get it wrong, is you broke up with Jesus.
What do you mean by that?
Yeah, I say that kind of tongue in cheek.
It's a great way of saying it.
No, it's a great way of saying it.
But what was that process like for you that led you…because I've never felt that urge
to…I appreciate Jesus as the example of love.
That's my deep connection, but what was your experience like?
Yeah.
Yeshua ben Joseph and I are chill.
Jesus is like a brand to me.
You know what I mean?
Like the Yeshua…
You can give it not so much, but Yeshua ben Joseph, yes, so.
Like walk on water, feed the poor, hang out with the harlots.
That would be my dude.
Barefoot in tunics, those are my people.
Sounds like whenever I hang out under the trees and eat some fish, I'm down.
I'm going to all day.
Talk about love and revolution and be like, give Caesar the money.
Let's go live in the desert.
I'm in.
Like I'm in with all of that.
Yeah.
Jesus is a brand.
So when I was…it was in the sixth grade, so I was 10, 11 years old, and we had to do
a report on a tribal people around the world.
We were studying tribes and like more earth-based traditions.
So some people did, you know, the Lakota tribe here in the United States or our local tribe
or some in South America.
And I was like, I'm doing the Zulu nation of South Africa.
And I'd like seen them on a documentary and the way they dance and the way they move,
their Chosa language, like the sound of the clicks and the hums and like their language.
I was just like, these people are alien, infinite, ancient beings.
Like I just, I could feel it in my bones.
I was like, Zulu nation, they know something we don't know.
They know something we don't know.
And so I did this report.
I got really excited and we did on the language and the food and the culture and where they
live and had a map.
And I came to church, came to my youth group.
And I was very excited to talk about Zulu nation.
I'll never forget Mr. Rodriguez, our youth group pastor, came over and said, you know,
Brianna, it sounds like you're really excited.
And this is paraphrasing, obviously.
It sounds like you're really excited about the Zulu nation.
But unfortunately, unless you included Jesus in that report, you know, these are people
who are going to be damned to hell.
Oh my God.
I was just like, okay, let me just get this straight.
Jesus is like 2000 years old.
These people are like 200,000 years old.
And you're telling me like a little 2000 year old blip on their timeline is somehow going
to interact with their infinite soul.
Like, and the God that I had experienced in my heart in that moment was like, nah, I was
just like, nah, that's not right.
That's not right.
The God you're talking to and the God that I talked to are two different things because
this one's telling me they're all right.
This one's telling me they actually got it more figured out than us.
This one's telling me they have a process of transformative justice where they put whoever
has committed a crime in the center of a circle and sing their name to them until they break
down and cry and apologize and make amends, even if that means exile.
They sing as a form of their justice system.
Like they know something we don't know.
They know something we don't know.
And I just remember that feeling in my bones seated at about sixth grade.
By the time I was 15 years old, I told my parents, if you keep making me go to church,
I will have sex.
I hadn't had sex at that point.
And you all know how precious a first born daughter of an Italian family's virginity.
And I had my, you know, my promise ring with the cross and the rose.
I got married to Jesus.
Like I had a purity ring circle.
My daddy handed on my right.
I got married to Jesus until my hymen was going to be broken by my husband.
Like that whole thing, the whole thing.
So when I say I broke up with Jesus, it was this concept that I had married this entity
that I had given my body, my vagina, my boobs, my barely pubescent body.
I hadn't even started bleeding yet and I'm marrying an entity.
I was like, fuck this.
Like by the time I was 15, I had been reading books on Lilith.
I'd been deconstructing the establishment of Judaism.
I got deep into Kabbalah.
I got deep into the Gnostics.
I read the book of Timothy.
I was like, there's a book of Mary Magdalene.
Who knew?
I had an AP US English teacher, AP English teacher when I was 15, who started asking
me some questions and he kind of like planted the seed and he just slid me the book on Lilith.
And I was like, Oh, what's Adam's first wife?
What's this?
And it was just like reading a mythology.
And he asked me after I read the book of Lilith, he's like, what'd you think?
I was like, well, that's an interesting mythology.
He's like, what if it's all a mythology?
And I was just like, what determines that Zeus is less real than Jesus?
What determines that Freya is less real than Kuan Yin?
What determines that Mary Magdalene existed, but Aphrodite didn't?
And I started that churning around 15, 16 years old on top of all of this.
So I told them, if you keep making me go to church, Hymen will be broken.
So they told me I didn't need to go.
And then by the time I went to university at 17, I was like, I need to explore things
outside of the Christian paradigm.
My biggest personal angst, anxiety and suicidality.
At night, the only thing that felt like I could be escaping from the suffering of this
world was going to heaven, was like, get me the fuck out of here.
I want the eject button.
From what was happening with my family, I grew up in the time of the Iraq war.
So the majority of my high school friends, I grew up in a socioeconomically poor area.
So more than 70% of my high school class went to the front lines of Iraq.
I watched my friends come back with CPTSD or missing limbs or not at all.
So awakening to that and being like, that's not God's will.
I knew it in my heart that had been purified by the love of the infinite, that what they
were telling me was God's will wasn't God's will.
And I don't say that with a K knowing, I say that with a G-N-O-S-I-S.
There was just a body knowing of like, this isn't the way.
And the irony, of course, is that Dick Cheney just supported Kamala.
So he's the freaking perpetrator of that entire debacle.
I don't think anybody, I've always voted Republican, Brianna, but I knew anybody should have known
that was an absolute joke.
And going back to the whole October 7th, I did hear something scary in that they moved
the venue like two days prior.
There was just a lot of funky shit that happened.
Netanyahu, who has the most to gain from that process?
And you start to, with an open mind, you start to realize stuff like that.
So when I was saying that I wasn't justifying things, I was just saying what is out there.
Totally.
But anybody who saw that.
That's the other saddest thing about this war.
World War II was considered a good war, a just war.
We knew who the bad guys were, but then everything after that, from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq,
where you've got civilians and shields and all kinds of stuff and we don't even know
what we're fighting for.
And you look where we are today.
I mean, it's like the prison system too, right?
It is literally just the cause of pain and suffering that's a no end.
And you look at it and you say, we don't learn.
It's like Stephen.
Stephen's in front of the, he's the first martyr, right?
So he's in front of all this group of people and they go, you start over here and God still
did this.
He did this.
He said, screw you.
Then you bring in Jesus and then you have killed him too, you guys don't get it.
You don't get it, right?
And that's what we need.
We need something stronger than just what we see with our eyes to get it.
We need something that we need to feel, and we need to be in the presence of others who
feel and can teach.
And we need something bigger than what we've got going on right now.
We just need something to come through.
And I think that it feels like we could be on a precipice of it.
You know, I don't know.
Brianna, let me ask you a question because you seem very informed about what's going
on over there.
Do you think there is and if there is how large a contingent between the two parties
that wants peace?
Between the Democrats and the Republicans?
No, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry.
Not politics over in Israel.
In Palestine.
Right.
The Palestinian people have been advocating for just liberation since 1948 when the illegal
occupation of European settlers came into their lands.
And briefly, it's just liberation.
What does that mean?
Just liberation would be I get to keep my house.
If you would like to build a house, you can go through the legal system that is already
in place.
Yeah, there was already a legal system in place.
There wasn't an official nation state of Palestine, but there weren't a lot of official nation
states in 1948 all over Africa.
Even Central America had broken up different nation states at that time.
So the fact that there wasn't a recognized nation state by the Western countries didn't
mean that there weren't systems at play for people who were is claiming to be Israeli
Jews returning to Palestine.
They want to come to Palestine.
That's fine.
We have a system.
You can get a passport.
We have our money.
It's as Palestine.
Instead of that, they established their own government, got money from Great Britain,
from the United States, from France and from Spain, created an army and then began to colonize
Palestine.
So the problems began even in the late 1800s when this movement called Zionism was created.
Zionism is very similar to what was considered the expansion of the U.S. empire, which was
justified by something called Manifest Destiny.
Good job.
So Manifest Destiny was a Christian doctrine that was created in the late 1600s, early
1700s that says, if you have a gun and God lives in your heart, anyone you shoot doesn't
count, especially if they're native on this land because they're backwards civilization
and they eat their own babies and they massacre themselves and their religion's totally off.
We have the right religion.
We are endowed by God to be the chosen people of this land.
Zionism is almost an exact copy of Manifest Destiny, which enabled the genocide of the
indigenous peoples of Turtle Island, over 400 million people, most of whom were not
killed by formal armies, most of whom were killed by citizens, settlers, people moving
out west, the cowboys.
Okay.
But you still haven't answered my question.
Is there a group?
Not done yet.
That's a long way around saying that the Palestinians say yes.
The Palestinians want the occupiers out.
They want the white Europeans out.
They do not belong there.
They came there illegally.
They brought guns.
They brought money from other nations and they hijacked the trauma, the very real trauma
of the Holocaust, of losing six million Jews across Europe.
That's very real trauma.
They hijacked that trauma and the United States and Great Britain and the Western countries
wanted an in to the Middle East to access fossil fuels, especially after World War II.
They knew that fossil fuels were going to be the next big thing.
They needed an in.
And most of the Muslim countries in the Middle East say, fuck you to the United States because
they don't agree with our culture.
They don't agree with the way that we've done imperialism and they have their own capitalist
thing.
I'm not saying that they're perfect by any means.
There's a lot of fucked up shit all imbued in that.
But they were like, we don't want the Americans in.
No, we don't want to come to the deal table with you.
We won't even negotiate.
You get zero fossil fuels.
The United States and the United States said, oh, really?
Well, then we're going to arm this group of people.
We're going to send the largest militia that has ever been seen in the Middle East and
call it the state of Israel.
Israel was made as a buffer for the United States and the Western world to extract fossil
fuels under the guise of protecting very traumatized Jewish people, refugees who did need a home.
And they put them in a place where they knew they would get targeted by Arab and Muslim
people who were upset at colonization already in the Middle East from the Ottoman Empire,
the British Empire, the United States, Spain, Portugal.
All of them had been all up in there for hundreds of years.
And they're like, please, white people go back to Europe, please.
Then you have a presence of white European Jews coming into the space and saying, this
is our chosen land.
And the Palestinians are like, we were here when Jesus was here, yo.
We've been here.
Jesus was like my seventh cousin.
Like literally, this is the you're talking about Moses.
That's my great uncle.
Like what do you do?
I get that religiously.
And maybe you have some Levitan blood way back when.
But this land has belonged to us.
And if you want to come into our land and you want to get a home, there are legal ways
to do that.
They chose to not do that.
They chose to settle.
They chose to colonize.
They chose to use imperialism in 1948 and then six consecutive deep massacres after that
time, one of which the seventh that has been going on since October 8th.
So again, you've done a really good job though of establishing that Israel is at fault.
And I understand that narrative.
But my question is, is there a group of people inside, you've established very well that
within Palestine, they want peace.
Is there a group within Israel that does want peace?
In Palestine, they want liberation, which includes justice and not just the end of fighting,
right?
And I think that wants a sense of peace because here's the thing, these countries have been
fighting for, it has nothing to do with what's happening right now.
It's happened for millenniums.
And they've been fighting a war that is so deeply ingrained in their body that they don't
know how to get out of it.
And how do we get them out of that?
Because that's what- I think the first piece is acknowledging that there is a settler state.
Because for people who've been attacked, if your attacker still has a gun, they're not
going to be asking for like, just stop shooting.
Because they've been asking for that for 76 years and it's not working.
So there needs to be a taking away of the gun.
Nobody's got guns.
Now we can sit down and talk peace.
Until Israel is disarmed, there can be no liberation or peace in Palestine, number one.
Number two, there are deep groups in Tel Aviv.
I'm connected to Jewish Voices for Peace, connected to many groups, not only connected
to the hostage families, but incredible groups of Jewish Israeli people who 700,000 came
out in Tel Aviv demanding that Netanyahu step down.
700,000, almost a million people in Tel Aviv.
Israelis, Jewish people saying, we want you out.
We're done.
That's not being broadcast, right?
So there are incredible factions that are like, we don't want our children bombed.
We understand this is a settler state.
We want to have a deeper conversation.
But because the question is economic, this is not a question of geopolitics.
This is not a question of religion.
This is not a question of even the war in people's bodies.
This is a question of money and fossil fuels.
We got to talk to Chevron.
We need to talk to Exxon.
We need to talk to Shell.
We need to talk to Konocho.
You need to check what you've invested your money in and where your portfolios are because
if they're in fossil fuel companies, we're supporting genocide.
That is the deeper conversation on this planet is going to be economic.
And are there spiritual roots to that?
Yes, because in capitalism, we've been sold the idea that if you are spiritually vapid,
making money will make you feel like more of a man.
That's the play of patriarchy and capitalism.
When you guys know none of that can fill your soul.
It's nice to have money.
I'm not anti-money.
I'm not anti-commerce.
I'm anti-capitalist.
That shouldn't be our religion.
Anything after an ism is what you focus on.
We shouldn't be focusing on capital.
It should be humanism.
It should be earthism.
It should be children first, the safety of our children before making money, obviously.
Obviously, the safety of our rivers before making money, the safety of our oceans before
making money, the protection of women's bodies before making money, always.
But that's not the case on the planet.
And with the war in most of the places in the world, and specifically the genocide in
Palestine, the root cause of it is because there's $500 billion worth of oil under Gaza
Strip.
That's why they're carpet bombing it.
That's why they're making the people leave, because the people would not give it to them.
They wouldn't give it to the Israeli corporations.
They wouldn't give it to the US corporations.
And beyond that, these are multilateral, multinational, not even based in any place that have no taxes
on them, corporations that are feeding our society so that we can get around and feel
like we are safe.
The people want peace.
It's the governments that are controlled by the corporations that are right now.
Yeah, and my only hope for that is that those two countries, they're both pawns.
I mean, that's the hardest part is they're both pawns to greater monetary purposes, which
I completely agree with is I'm at a point in this whole grand narrative that we participate
in.
Like we showed up at this time in history, and we get to see it happen and unfold is
this idea that there is some greater restoration that we're going to see.
It's not like, are we going to spend the next 40 years of our life using AI to find a way
to hurt each other?
Or can we use it in the smartest way possible to help each other?
And it's unlimited productivity.
And so are we reaching a point where we can actually find ways to bring people together?
And I think that has to be led by women because women, men protect what the women show them
what's worth fighting for.
And it's the women give the heart.
And I think I look forward to the day when the mothers in Israel and Palestine come together
and say, we've been fighting this war so fucking long.
It's time to stop.
And I think we always talk about the black swan.
What's the black swan that's going to turn the dial?
And I think that could be a possibility.
It's just I long for peace for those two countries.
And I think that's a narrative that I hope gets imbued into that conflict because peace
is the only thing that solves conflict.
So Brianna, you have been a fascinating guest and I would love to have you back again.
You have a deeply insightful history of church, which we both appreciate.
And we're in a fantastic time.
So thank you so much for joining us today.
It's been wonderful having you.
Thank you, Jonathan.
And thank you, Rich.
It's I appreciate these open conversations and I hope we get to connect more as well.
I would love to come back.
I would love to sit in a room with you and other folks of underrepresented people to
learn more, to understand more, to empathize, to feel and to share brokenness, but also
hope.
I think that would be an amazing experience.
So I love your background.
You've got so much going on from plant medicine to United Nations, archetypes and possible
solutions there too.
So I mean, what a unique opportunity to learn.
So I'm looking forward to it.
Thank you, Rich.
Thank you for your heart.
Yeah.
So this has been a fascinating conversation.
So Brianna, thank you so much for joining us.
We would love to hear your thoughts and connect with us on Instagram.
We're at Living in the Matrix.
And this has been one of my favorites.
So thank you to all of our listeners.
Have a wonderful, what is it, Thursday?
So have a wonderful three-day weekend if you have one, I do.
So much love everyone.
See you.