1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,440 I'm Jonathan and I'm left of center. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,040 And I'm Rich and I tend to lean a little bit more 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:07,840 to the right, but the bottom line is, 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,680 is together we try to look for the balance 5 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,880 of what it means to be human in today's world. 6 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,360 All right, let's get started. 7 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,040 Welcome to the Living in the Matrix everyone. 8 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,320 I'm Jonathan, this is my co-host Rich, say hello Rich. 9 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,040 Hey everybody, happy Taco Tuesday. 10 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,400 Great to be back and wow, we've got a doozy this afternoon. 11 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:32,400 Yeah, today's gonna be an extremely interesting show. 12 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:37,480 For those who know me and Rich and to our friend Dave, 13 00:00:38,060 --> 00:00:41,000 this is a very personal episode for the three of us. 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,000 And I wanna set the table of, 15 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,720 we're gonna be exploring this journey 16 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:46,380 probably in several episodes, 17 00:00:46,380 --> 00:00:51,380 but we wanted to start with we as a group on the podcast, 18 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,940 I'm here with Rich and my friend, Dave Lloyd, 19 00:00:55,940 --> 00:01:00,040 who I've known for probably about 25 years. 20 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,960 We happened to reconnect and decide to go 21 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,600 on an Ayahuasca retreat together. 22 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:10,480 And it was this last weekend and we wanna share 23 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,840 the experience and we're gonna answer a series 24 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,040 of questions that kind of carries us 25 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:18,520 through the whole weekend. 26 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,720 And this is extremely personal for me. 27 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,440 And I realized this is for me to even share this 28 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,480 is sort of a growth step because it's who I am as a person. 29 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,240 And this was one of the most interesting experiences 30 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:33,080 that I've ever had. 31 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,720 So first I wanna welcome Dave. 32 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,200 Dave, thank you for joining us on today's episode. 33 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:40,040 Thank you. 34 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,160 It's so good to be here. 35 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:46,160 And my heart is still full from the experience we had 36 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,120 just a few days ago. 37 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,720 And I'm just thrilled to be reconnecting 38 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:51,720 with the two of you. 39 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:53,520 Awesome. 40 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,680 Yeah, so the first question I wanna start with is 41 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,960 what made you choose to do this ceremony? 42 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,720 So, Rhys, why don't I start with you? 43 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,680 What made you choose to do the ceremony? 44 00:02:07,580 --> 00:02:11,520 Well, believe it or not, I think timing 45 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,240 was the best aspect of it, right? 46 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,980 You had brought up this concept of going to Marin 47 00:02:15,980 --> 00:02:18,880 and doing something that you thought was gonna be similar 48 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:20,520 and turned out to be different. 49 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:21,720 And then your friend, Dave said, 50 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,560 hey, we've got an opportunity to do ayahuasca 51 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,080 down here in Joshua Tree, 52 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,280 which of course is only three hours away from me. 53 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,720 But to go back to the original point of the question 54 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,920 outside of timing, I've been told on two separate occasions 55 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:39,920 by a complete stranger and a somewhat personal friend 56 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,880 who was in a post-construction, 57 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,600 deconstruction post-Christian group that I was in, 58 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,160 if I worked on my heart, I could change things. 59 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,320 So I'm on this plane coming back from Colorado 60 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,240 and I'm with this gal on the plane. 61 00:02:58,240 --> 00:02:59,080 She's sitting next to me. 62 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:00,160 She's going to Bethel. 63 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,660 She's flying from Colorado into Sacramento. 64 00:03:03,660 --> 00:03:06,320 I'm going to Sacramento to go back home to Rockland. 65 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,280 And after we start talking about theology 66 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,080 and stuff like that and knowing what Bethel is, 67 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,800 which is a very charismatic kind of movement church, 68 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,240 she says, Rich, can I just give you a word of knowledge? 69 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,080 She goes, God has your head, but he wants your heart. 70 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,560 And it just kind of floored me 71 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,280 because I've been a head guy my whole life, right? 72 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,400 Theology, doctrine, John Piper, defending the faith, 73 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,420 but I never really got into the way that I should have. 74 00:03:32,420 --> 00:03:34,320 And then at this small group, 75 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,440 this post-Christian deconstruction group, 76 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,200 this gal literally said she had a dream about me. 77 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:40,360 Her name was Sherry and she says, 78 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,120 Rich, I had a dream about you the other night. 79 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,800 And if you were able to change your heart, 80 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:45,720 you would change the world. 81 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,240 So those two things were like, okay, I've got it. 82 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,160 I got to figure this out. 83 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,240 So how to best change the heart? 84 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,200 Mama Aya's got that possibility and capability. 85 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,140 So that's about to the heart and the body. 86 00:03:58,140 --> 00:04:01,120 And that's why I was really ready to embrace the journey. 87 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,640 David, Rich, that was awesome. 88 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:04,880 I love that. 89 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,120 Dave, how did you join this threesome? 90 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:09,960 What's your story getting in? 91 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,960 Well, I'm in a midlife, I won't call it a crisis, 92 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,440 midlife transformation, 93 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,240 going through this most significant life changes people do 94 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,440 relative to family life, work life, financial life. 95 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,600 And as a result of a lot of personal change, 96 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,020 I'm seeking answers and I'm seeking answers, 97 00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:39,040 as Rich said, inside of me, 98 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,480 but coming from outside of me. 99 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,680 And outside in this case is through an experience 100 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,560 with the Ayahuasca plant itself. 101 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,560 So what's bringing me to this is to look at fear, 102 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,440 to look at abandonment, 103 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:02,440 to look at how I'm not fully showing up as myself 104 00:05:04,500 --> 00:05:07,500 or the self that I want to be soon, 105 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:10,220 because I haven't gone into my heart, 106 00:05:10,220 --> 00:05:13,920 into my deep feelings of where that represents. 107 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,040 And so another way to put it is, 108 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,560 I really have taken the time to, I'd say, 109 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,440 enter that cave that I fear, 110 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,380 which holds the treasure I seek. 111 00:05:29,380 --> 00:05:32,480 And the cave for me is the unknown. 112 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,080 And a lot of the unknown is around childhood. 113 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:41,080 Those things from my past that showed up in my adult life. 114 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,360 And so the weekend for me really represented 115 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,160 a form of death and rebirth. 116 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,800 Dying to those parts of me that no longer serve me, 117 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,760 no longer serve the family life and marriage life 118 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,280 that I was in for three decades. 119 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:02,280 And stepping into growing up. 120 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:04,360 There's a, I'll end with this, 121 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,280 there's a version of a Maya Angelou quote that says, 122 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:12,280 people grow, but they don't necessarily grow up. 123 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:16,400 And to grow up costs the earth, literally the earth. 124 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,160 And you find out what it costs us to love, 125 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,440 to lose, to dare, to fail, and maybe to succeed. 126 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,000 And so for me, it cost me the earth. 127 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,440 It was an incredibly impactful and challenging weekend 128 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,880 that I'm really grateful the two of you were there 129 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,480 alongside me during things in the middle of the night. 130 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,480 Things in the middle of the night. 131 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,640 It was wild, it was truly wild. 132 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,800 It was interesting, I'm so glad I let the two of you 133 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,360 go first, because I got to reflect and kind of pick out 134 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,320 some of the great things you were experiencing. 135 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:55,320 I realized for me it was, I've always been interested 136 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,400 in the idea of ayahuasca, because it's always been 137 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,200 presented as medicine. 138 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:05,200 And it's a ceremonial healing event that tribes would do 139 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,240 when their people were hurting and sick. 140 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,120 And that is a profound idea. 141 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,600 And I have always considered myself a psychonaut. 142 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:22,600 I have been willing, I like the psychedelic experience 143 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,160 in the idea that it produces, which is it turns off 144 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,320 your default mode network and allows you to sit 145 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,400 with all of your garbage and deal with it. 146 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,480 And I've had that on psilocybin, I've had that on LSD, 147 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,120 I've had that on ecstasy, but I had never done ayahuasca. 148 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,360 I was truly interested in it as a medicine. 149 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:50,360 And I was blown away by the idea. 150 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,920 And so I wanna shift to the next question, which is, 151 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,040 and I'll start actually, because I was going in 152 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:02,040 with a lot of energy, is what were you expecting to happen? 153 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,520 And so I'll start this one, because Rich, you said, 154 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,840 I was talking to someone in Moran about going to a group 155 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,000 and originally it was ayahuasca and UFO, 156 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,000 which is five MEO, is it five MEO? 157 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,160 Five MEO DMT, five MEO DMT, yep. 158 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,520 And that ended up getting completely flipped. 159 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,440 And I'm like, it doesn't feel right. 160 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:34,400 And then Dave said, I'm going to the one in Palm Springs 161 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,000 or in the Joshua tree. 162 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,600 And then you're like, I'm gonna go too. 163 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,520 And I'm like, something feels like it's happening here. 164 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,520 Like the three of us are trying to get together 165 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,480 and I was being pulled. 166 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,720 And I came with a tremendous amount of, 167 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:53,840 it was like, when I woke up at your house, Rich, 168 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,400 because I arrived at your house on Thursday night 169 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,520 and woke up, I was such in the zone in terms of, 170 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,600 I'm expecting something really interesting here. 171 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,760 And so I went in with a tremendous amount of expectation 172 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,960 that this was gonna be fantastic. 173 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:14,540 And it was a lot more than that, 174 00:09:14,540 --> 00:09:16,760 but I'll share that in a little bit. 175 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:17,580 Dave, how about you? 176 00:09:17,580 --> 00:09:19,560 What were you expecting to happen? 177 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:21,920 You know, I purposely went in with 178 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,760 no preconceived knowledge. 179 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,120 I didn't look on the web on what IAWASCA would do 180 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,360 beyond like a five minute chat GPT, you know, review. 181 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:34,840 I didn't watch videos. 182 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:36,480 I didn't read much. 183 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,440 I wanted to go in a little bit blind 184 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,880 in terms of the biochemistry of it and the experience. 185 00:09:44,020 --> 00:09:46,200 As a result though, what happened 186 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,680 or what I was expecting to happen was insights. 187 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:55,920 And those insights came by having the right intentions, 188 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,120 which as you guys recall, that was part of the ceremony 189 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,680 is to come in with an intention. 190 00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:02,680 And so my expectation the first night 191 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:06,540 was to step into wound, wound that, 192 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:10,740 you know, we all carry wounds from family life. 193 00:10:10,740 --> 00:10:15,740 And so it was to look at how those showed up 194 00:10:16,620 --> 00:10:17,640 still in my life. 195 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,400 And in particular, how I could on the second night, 196 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,000 create a space inside of myself 197 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,000 filled with love and joy 198 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,240 that allowed me to step beyond grief, 199 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,320 step beyond the present day emotions 200 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,000 that are not fully serving me. 201 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:41,000 So really it came down to wanting to feel things very deeply 202 00:10:41,420 --> 00:10:45,520 so that I could feel other things very deeply. 203 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,080 There's this sense that you can't experience 204 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,600 the gold without the shadow, the good without the bad. 205 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,360 And so by going so deeply into the wound, 206 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,060 the emotion of that, those wounds, 207 00:10:58,980 --> 00:11:00,880 it's allowed me just a few days later 208 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,440 to be able to see things, not permanently more brightly, 209 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,520 but have more access to the kind of the extremes 210 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,060 of emotional life. 211 00:11:11,060 --> 00:11:14,840 So yeah, in a nutshell, it was just wanting some insights 212 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,400 and transformation, and I definitely got that. 213 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,200 Rich, how about you? 214 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:21,920 Yeah, for me, the irony of course, 215 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,720 for the ayahuasca experience is to go in with intention, 216 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,160 yet no expectation. 217 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,320 It's almost like a paradox if you would, 218 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,200 because it's like, I've got this idea, 219 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,200 but then I shouldn't expect it necessarily the way I might. 220 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,060 And so for me, my biggest expectation on night one 221 00:11:41,060 --> 00:11:44,320 was to have Aya drop into the heart. 222 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:45,240 I actually remember the song, 223 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:46,760 Open the Eyes of My Heart, Lord, right? 224 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,280 Open the eyes of my heart, Lord. 225 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,320 Everybody, we all know this song, right? 226 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:51,500 And yet at the same time, like, okay, 227 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:53,240 I don't wanna talk about Lord and God 228 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,600 and my maternal figure. 229 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,240 This is mama Aya here. 230 00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,880 So it was like, drop into my heart, 231 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,880 help awaken that part that I've been told 232 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,680 I need to tap into, and I've experienced 233 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:06,960 the need to as well. 234 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,680 And I think I've actually gotten there a little bit 235 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:09,760 over the course of the few years 236 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:10,960 with transcendental meditation, 237 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,000 does help you tap into that. 238 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,320 But the second night was, I wanted to lean into love, 239 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,920 love and spirit, and to show me what that looks like. 240 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,320 The irony, of course, with all this is, 241 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,480 we do wanna have this bright, 242 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,360 we wanna have these helpers come. 243 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,320 People hear about entities. 244 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,960 They think about this presence, and it's a bliss sometimes. 245 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,320 But at the same time, during some of the songs, 246 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,320 it talks about demons and angels, 247 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,160 and there's a darkness to it. 248 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,100 There's the darkness that comes, and this battle. 249 00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:44,280 And I think we should always be open to that, 250 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,080 because that's the stuff we don't like to, 251 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,200 but sometimes that's the best part of it. 252 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:53,120 Nietzsche said, hey, beware of the demons 253 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:54,560 that get exorcised from you, 254 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:56,400 because they might be the best parts. 255 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,040 Oh, that's an interesting thought. 256 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,720 Yeah, that's what Nietzsche says, imagine that. 257 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:04,720 Oh, interesting. 258 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,280 And so let's jump into the first question, 259 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:08,720 because I think this is gonna be the, 260 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,580 the next few questions are gonna be the bulk of the episode. 261 00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:13,760 What was the first night like for you? 262 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,320 And I don't wanna have us just go, let's just share. 263 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,340 What was the first night, and who wants to jump in? 264 00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:20,960 Yeah, great, I can start. 265 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,160 So, you know, the first time for anything always 266 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,280 is such a sweet experience. 267 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,920 And going in with no expectations, really. 268 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,680 You know, taking that medicine, 269 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:39,000 you do about four rounds of it over four hours. 270 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,800 And going progressively deeper into the experience. 271 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,800 The first thing I noticed was, 272 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,340 it's a very visceral, very physical experience. 273 00:13:48,340 --> 00:13:51,820 It's not like taking vitamins or some medication 274 00:13:51,820 --> 00:13:56,820 that sort of you might not feel it operating in your brain. 275 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,440 This, you feel it. 276 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,520 We felt it in our gut. 277 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,280 I felt it coursing through my abdomen. 278 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,280 I felt the churning. 279 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,640 So there was a physical sensation that was very foreign 280 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:15,440 and yet so tangible, like something is changing 281 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:18,040 in real time. 282 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,360 So that was one is it was very physical. 283 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,040 It then got really uncomfortable. 284 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:24,600 Physically uncomfortable. 285 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,160 And they talk about the purge, literally vomiting. 286 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,380 And that took me about three hours into the morning. 287 00:14:31,380 --> 00:14:33,560 So this was probably by about midnight or 1 a.m. 288 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,160 where I'm purging. 289 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,480 And that was a physical purge, 290 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,880 but it was really the concept is it's an emotional purge. 291 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,680 And for me, that emotion was 292 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,520 letting go of those parts in me that don't yet 293 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,320 love myself unconditionally fully. 294 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,100 And that was the purging. 295 00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:56,800 And back to the reference to theology, 296 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,160 having grown up in a church setting 297 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:01,740 and with Christian theology, 298 00:15:01,740 --> 00:15:05,200 I'd always conceptually and cognitively understood 299 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,240 God's love to be unconditional, 300 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:12,240 but it takes so many layers of human learning 301 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,040 to really internalize that. 302 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:19,040 So I felt that that purging for me was me allowing out 303 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,320 the parts of me that couldn't love myself fully 304 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,640 and letting in a deeper understanding 305 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,880 of loving my full self unconditionally. 306 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,360 So that was for me what the first night 307 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,840 sort of symbolically and tangibly represented. 308 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:36,880 How about for you, Jonathan? 309 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:37,720 Yeah. 310 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,440 Yeah, I will say I went in with a ridiculous amount 311 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,320 of expectation that it's gonna be great. 312 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:50,240 And I think I expected that to the point that I could, 313 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,240 that I think it deeply affected me 314 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,800 because I was stressed the entire two hours. 315 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:58,880 I was like, okay, what's gonna happen? 316 00:15:58,880 --> 00:15:59,720 What's going on? 317 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,600 And nothing happened for two hours. 318 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,960 And I went back for a second shot. 319 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,960 So you take about a half of a juice glass or less, 320 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,460 depending on the dose size. 321 00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:14,400 And mine was a large one. 322 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,880 It was half a juice glass and I drank it 323 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,640 and then nothing happened for two hours. 324 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,400 I didn't even get nauseous. 325 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:25,400 And people had already, one guy was in the zone in minutes. 326 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:26,240 15 minutes, yeah. 327 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:27,760 Yeah, it was kind of wild. 328 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,320 And he, but he, it affected him 329 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:31,920 and nothing's happening to me. 330 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,720 And I'm hearing people vomit and I'm here and like, okay, 331 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,840 am I placebo-ing myself or what? 332 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:38,680 What's going on? 333 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:39,500 Why won't this? 334 00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:42,400 And I realized I was so stressed out about it 335 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,680 that it was just like, I was getting in the way 336 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:45,520 and resisting. 337 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,400 And then right when I kind of became cognizant of that, 338 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,960 I just went into nausea hard 339 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,040 because that's, it's a, it's, 340 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,360 the process is an act of suffering. 341 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,200 It's really, it's really interesting. 342 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:04,080 I was nauseous for probably the next two and a half hours 343 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,880 and just dealing with this resistance in my body. 344 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,520 I think I went in too hard for the weekend, 345 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,480 expecting too much and was almost like countering 346 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,120 my own desire to control it, you know? 347 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:22,480 And I have, and I realized, okay, I need to chill. 348 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,840 I need to completely chill. 349 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:28,840 And once I threw up, I, then I had the dreams 350 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,960 and the dreams were wild because you go into this 351 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,720 like third eye space where you're just visually seeing. 352 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,400 And it's not like when you close your eyes 353 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,800 and you see a little bit of red 354 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,480 and there's sunlight, maybe it gets bright yellow. 355 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,560 These are visual patterns that are like a screen 356 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:44,740 in your mind. 357 00:17:44,740 --> 00:17:48,460 And all of a sudden I started seeing snakes 358 00:17:48,460 --> 00:17:50,300 like the sentinel from the matrix. 359 00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:53,920 It was just like all these snakes were coursing through 360 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,500 and I didn't feel attacked, but they were just there. 361 00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:58,560 Like this was part of the medicine. 362 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:03,560 And then I saw a ton of fluorescent patterns 363 00:18:03,740 --> 00:18:05,280 that are outlined in black. 364 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,520 So there was definitely a negativity, 365 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,800 but also a bright positivity mixed in. 366 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,760 And that sense of visual pattern was dominant 367 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,760 and I didn't have any real crystal clear, 368 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,680 like something Mama Aya brought to me that night. 369 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,280 It was much more me getting over my own sense of resistance. 370 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,400 Yeah, that's awesome. 371 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,960 And I know that Dave had a very, something similar 372 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,520 throughout the night until the very end, I believe. 373 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,440 I think part of that's ego as well, right? 374 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,800 We're trying to, we're looking around, 375 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,720 we're like, we're supposed to do this. 376 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,120 What's going on here? 377 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,120 No, I think we all went through the same battle. 378 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:48,040 Some people that are so sensitive 379 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,400 that after the first dose, it'll be enough for them. 380 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:51,840 And for all of us, we weren't there. 381 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,120 So I had my first dose just like you guys did. 382 00:18:55,120 --> 00:19:00,120 I went back for my second dose and I went back, laid down, 383 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:02,240 started to feel a little nauseous 384 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:03,760 and it wasn't really enjoying it too much. 385 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,560 But then I brought in the component 386 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,760 that everybody needs to know about. 387 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,360 And it's something called a Rappei or Hape. 388 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,360 And it's a tobacco that's created like a snuff. 389 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:16,960 Anybody's ever watched Michael Pollan on Netflix 390 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:17,960 in How to Change Your Mind, 391 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:19,840 at the very beginning of one of the episodes, he does it. 392 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,840 And you see his head blow back 393 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,240 as she blows tobacco into his nostril. 394 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,560 So I said, hey, we're in the medicine. 395 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:27,400 I heard this is a good thing. 396 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,040 Let's give it a go. 397 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,280 And so I did do that. 398 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,320 And my God, it felt like somebody took a bullet, 399 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,720 blew it through my nostril and out the back of my head. 400 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,040 And I love the smell of it though. 401 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:39,880 It smelled good. 402 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:40,880 I had been taking tobacco. 403 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,680 So one of the reasons I wasn't afraid of this 404 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,360 is when I was in Greece and was in Istanbul, 405 00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:46,920 I actually had a lot of cigarettes. 406 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,280 I never smoked cigarettes in my life. 407 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,080 I mean, I've bought my first pack of cigarettes. 408 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:51,440 I'm 54 years old. 409 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:52,480 I am a smoker. 410 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,360 I go back to my mat. 411 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:59,360 I lay down and all of a sudden I'm like, oh, 412 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,520 this is feeling kind of weird here. 413 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:04,600 I then believe it or not, 414 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,320 had very similar types of visions, Jonathan. 415 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,320 Reptilian, dragon-like kinds of snakes, 416 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,080 green iridescent scales that also writhed. 417 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:18,160 And I talked about this. 418 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,240 They writhe and they morphed into these really big, 419 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,000 thick, thorny things you'd see like in a 420 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,200 Sword and the Stone cartoon on Disney 421 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,760 or like Earthless Tentacles in Ariel 422 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,480 or something like you'd see in Snow White, right? 423 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,280 Where there was definitely this twisting and writhing, 424 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:35,760 this kind of pattern. 425 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,520 I then proceeded to vomit and hurl and inheave, 426 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,720 but it was a small amount. 427 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,960 Then I got up to what I thought was to be, 428 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:45,800 to go to the bathroom. 429 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:46,880 We're all supposed to be very hydrated 430 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:47,720 during this process. 431 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,000 Everybody, you'll learn. 432 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,440 If you do, I, talking to our audience, 433 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,520 you're gonna have a diet ahead of time 434 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,600 and you wanna stay hydrated. 435 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,240 So I go out, say hi to a couple of cool gals 436 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,320 and we kind of smiling. 437 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,680 And then instead of going to the bathroom, 438 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,600 I proceed to vomit more than I've ever remembered 439 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:05,720 in my life. 440 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,480 It was, I looked like a cylinder, 441 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,560 this big a volume of greenish bile. 442 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:12,880 That's what it feels like. 443 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,200 I left a mark. 444 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,080 I saw it the next day. 445 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:16,120 I watered some plants. 446 00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:19,040 There should be some growth there before too long. 447 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,000 So let's just say that that was really, really, 448 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,280 really powerful. 449 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,600 And what I think was happening was that some of that 450 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,720 trauma, guilt, pain, demons that I had on my stomach, 451 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,400 that's the medicine actually working. 452 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,640 That's the beauty of it is that that writhing 453 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,040 that striving and that wrestling, 454 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,200 it then comes out and that's when the fun began 455 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,800 because then I'm looking up at the night sky 456 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,400 and because my vision is so terrible 457 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:45,600 and didn't have my glasses on, 458 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,760 I saw the moon, which was a half moon, 459 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,640 it turned immediately into this lotus blossom 460 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,880 or chasanthemum of light. 461 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,240 And then the weirdest thing happened. 462 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,240 I'm literally looking at the stars, 463 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,720 but behind everything is the backdrop 464 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,000 of a pixelated touch screen. 465 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,280 So any touch screen you've seen from an angle, 466 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,960 like on your Tesla or like on an iPad, 467 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,360 if you look at it carefully in the sunlight, 468 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:11,560 you'll see all these dots that are perfectly there 469 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,320 so that it can recognize as your finger moves 470 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,120 across the screen and it touches, it's there. 471 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,240 And it felt very Matrix X. 472 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,080 Like this is just a bloody illusion, this whole thing. 473 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,360 And yet the universe was breathing and moaning and moving. 474 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:29,760 And it was fun then because I was done with my purge 475 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,280 and I got to enjoy some of the fun part about it, 476 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,480 which is this really body buzz, right? 477 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:36,840 This body high. 478 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,240 And my interaction with these girls, 479 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,560 a couple of them by name, Ximi and Nikki, 480 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,040 we were just having fun at that stage 481 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:43,860 and we were just laughing. 482 00:22:43,860 --> 00:22:47,000 And it was totally, it was just totally, 483 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,560 there was a communal kind of feeling 484 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:49,720 as we were going through this together. 485 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,840 So believe it or not, my first night was my best night. 486 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,360 So that was my experience. 487 00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:58,800 Yeah, I actually, the second half of the night, 488 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,880 because this is gonna go to my overall feelings is 489 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,880 I had a violent, imagine a blowtorch out your butt 490 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,600 poop experience four times. 491 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,920 It was like I had drunk liquid Drano, 492 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,880 but it had a motor attached to it. 493 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,280 It was like, what is happening to my body? 494 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,040 Snake going out the back end, right? 495 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:20,880 Oh my God. 496 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,400 A sentinel blowing at your ass. 497 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,240 That is no joke. 498 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:26,920 That's exactly what it was like. 499 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,240 And Dave, did you have, 500 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,960 what was your purges like? 501 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,000 Yeah, well, I wanted to just comment 502 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,520 on a couple of things related to your comments. 503 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,680 One is there's few experiences in life 504 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,640 where there are no limits, where anything goes, 505 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,920 where anything is allowed. 506 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,200 And this was that. 507 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,600 As a man, not speaking for the two of you, 508 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,440 but I believe it's true for many men, 509 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,720 we spend a lot of our life controlling our emotions, 510 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,720 feeling the right ones. 511 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,280 Can't feel too angry in a workplace setting. 512 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,680 Can't feel too sad in this setting. 513 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,400 Need to control our emotions to, 514 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,920 and then there's another school of thought that says, 515 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,120 feel it all, let it all out. 516 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,600 Don't repress, let it all out. 517 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,360 And there's certain societal structures 518 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:18,840 where you can't feel it all. 519 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,920 Maybe in a therapy room, maybe on a hike, 520 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,640 maybe in nature, maybe in tears, 521 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,680 but this was a feel it all experience. 522 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,760 Anything was welcome. 523 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,760 And so that was a real relief because 524 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,880 there was a certain sense of being out of control 525 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,560 with what was going on. 526 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,880 And that is a very freeing experience. 527 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,960 I mean, there is such surrender 528 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,800 in feeling out of control yet safe 529 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,400 because the container was so safe. 530 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,840 What we haven't necessarily shared 531 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,680 is there was a lot of context set up front. 532 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,840 The leaders were extremely experienced, 533 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,200 a couple hundred experiences of this hosting each. 534 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,440 There was music, there was dancing, 535 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,880 there was a dark experience, 536 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:08,720 given it was middle of the night. 537 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,000 So there was this sense of being almost in a, 538 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,400 not in a womb, but a very safe experience. 539 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,840 And so that gave a lot of permission to, again, to feel. 540 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,160 And so I say all that to say, 541 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,280 there's something I'm starting to believe into, 542 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:31,000 which is that becoming the most emotionally released version 543 00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,200 of myself is sort of a new aspiration. 544 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,840 How do I release those things that have trapped me, 545 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,400 kept me stuck and not buying into my own bullshit 546 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,920 around what emotion I felt 547 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,080 or what that life experience represented. 548 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,000 And this was that opportunity to let that go. 549 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,640 So that was powerful in a way 550 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,040 that I didn't think it would be, 551 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,320 that just the freedom to feel. 552 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,200 And so to answer your question very specifically, 553 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,520 the purge was disgusting. 554 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,840 I mean, honestly, I remembered back to, 555 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,240 being over the throne of a toilet when I had nausea 556 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,360 and it was that, but the disgusting part became, 557 00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,320 I guess I would call it sort of beautiful 558 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,600 in that it was symbolic. 559 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,360 It represented something. 560 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,960 I was choosing to do this, not out of sickness. 561 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,680 I was choosing to have this experience 562 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,280 and granted not everybody purges, 563 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,880 but I think all three of us did both nights. 564 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,960 And it was a purifying, it was a very purifying experience 565 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,960 where one of the things I had heard ahead of time 566 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,560 was the purging is an emotional experience, 567 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,960 even more than physical. 568 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,040 And so I knew on the other side of the purge 569 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,960 was some version of awareness, some version of enlightenment. 570 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,720 And that absolutely was true with both times that happened. 571 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,080 I felt like the whole womb aspect was reverberating. 572 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,000 It was very much people were there to be cared for. 573 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,520 That's the medicinal ceremony quality. 574 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,560 Like as a, Rich, you and I and Davey, May too, 575 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,440 is looking back of ooh, an ayahuasca ceremony 576 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,720 or like, are you getting into something way out of bounds 577 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:10,640 for a lot of people? 578 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,640 And I went in expecting, expecting none of that, 579 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,200 but it was such a safe space 580 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:24,200 that all three of us could actually go through what we did. 581 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,400 And there was no shame in the room, you know, 582 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,560 where people were releasing shame, 583 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,280 but the leaders were so good at creating a safe space. 584 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,440 Bailey is one of the softest human beings 585 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,160 I've ever met. 586 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,720 He was absolutely wonderful. 587 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,880 I love just chatting with them even before we got started. 588 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,320 I knew I was gonna like that guy 589 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,560 and it continued to be just amazing. 590 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,080 I'll talk about night for the second night. 591 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,560 You wanna do the second night real quick? 592 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,600 I wanna ask a question about sort of idea of integration 593 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,000 in between, cause it hit me really hard. 594 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,640 So I loved your idea about Purge, Dave, 595 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,880 of is it's a releasing of something. 596 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,000 And the entire first night I was trying to figure out 597 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,520 what that was, like what was the awareness, 598 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,920 but it was all physical for me. 599 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,520 There was very little awareness. 600 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,200 I had some cool moments. 601 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,280 And then I woke up and then I had that, 602 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,200 I lost six pounds when I came home. 603 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,160 And, but it all came out of my body. 604 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,080 The next day I woke up and we're sitting in the living room 605 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:39,080 and I, and the idea of integration back into normalcy, 606 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:44,080 I felt so light and at rest, it blew me away. 607 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,680 And I wanted to ask you guys, did you, 608 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,080 what was your feeling that first night after? 609 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,280 What was going through your mind in the morning 610 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,720 or in the afternoon too? 611 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,600 So it's about 6 a.m. on the morning of, 612 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,200 and of course we're all tired. 613 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,600 Our bodies are physically drained from having been up 614 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:10,440 all night. 615 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,680 I wasn't, as you guys recall, 616 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,920 I wasn't really able to get a lot of sleep. 617 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,400 I think I ended up sleeping by about 9 a.m. 618 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,000 which that in and of itself was still an altered state. 619 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,560 But the, that first, that next morning, there was a relief. 620 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,880 Mostly that was the feeling of relief, like, 621 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,440 oh, I just, it was, the listeners may know 622 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,920 of the hero's journey, Joseph Campbell, the myth, 623 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,440 going into the descent, into the abyss. 624 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:41,760 It was that experience. 625 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,440 And coming out of that descent into the abyss 626 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,040 and coming out of that first day, 627 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,040 there was such a relief to say, 628 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,840 hey, I went through something really hard, 629 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,000 physically, emotionally, spiritually, with other people. 630 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,000 I made it through. 631 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,000 And it wasn't some lightning bolt of epiphany. 632 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,200 It was, oh, that was hard. 633 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,480 I got something out of it. 634 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,280 I'll formulate what it is, you know, 635 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,120 over the next couple of days. 636 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,720 But mostly it was, that was good for me. 637 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,480 The things that, you know, the quote we all know, 638 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,840 that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger. 639 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,040 There was that sense of, that was really hard. 640 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,280 Like if you've ever done a physical event like a marathon, 641 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,360 hey, it's really hard. 642 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:28,920 And you come out of it with some awareness. 643 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,920 It was that feeling of, oh, I got through that. 644 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,480 And so there was a resilience to it. 645 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,880 Like, oh, I'm a tough person here. 646 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,880 And the other part of it was, 647 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,520 it was nice to kind of be done with the first one. 648 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,760 Because then I think we all, 649 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,240 all three of us collectively said that, 650 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,000 oh, okay, now we know what it's like. 651 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,400 And it wasn't that we were gonna go in 652 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,120 and be performative for the second one. 653 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,360 It was like, oh, now we can sort of customize 654 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,640 what we wanna get out of it, 655 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,520 knowing a little bit of the mechanics of how it works. 656 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,680 And so there was a sense of, oh, I get it now. 657 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:05,880 Yeah. 658 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,440 So that was kind of fun to play with. 659 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,880 Yeah, I came out of the process through idea. 660 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,520 I just, I focused on community and the other, 661 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:18,920 believe it or not, even though there's a lot 662 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,000 of individual stuff that takes place. 663 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,880 I felt like, you know, we did a lot of work together, Dave. 664 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,600 Jonathan and I were helping you through a tough place 665 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:29,800 on that second night. 666 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,360 And there was this desire for that. 667 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,280 When I was wrestling the second night, 668 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,240 I felt the presence of the ups and the downs 669 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,280 of the community, of the actual, 670 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,720 inside that geodesic dome. 671 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:44,560 I felt that. 672 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,480 And this gal named Adrienne, 673 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,200 she affirmed that the next morning. 674 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,560 And the idea that even though we're wrestling with our own, 675 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,400 it's still, it's a communal thing. 676 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,240 When you start to realize that the ayahuasca ceremony 677 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,720 isn't just about a psychedelic or an emotional 678 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,680 or a body high, but it's about the music. 679 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:06,840 It's about a ceremony. 680 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,320 It's about a ritual. 681 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:09,600 It's about a community. 682 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,960 It's about nature. 683 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,960 It's about medicine. 684 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,600 It really starts to impact you in a way 685 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,480 that that's why it's transformative. 686 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:19,440 Think about this, guys. 687 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,320 There are people that there that have dedicated 688 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:22,140 their lives to it. 689 00:32:22,140 --> 00:32:23,360 This is who they are now. 690 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:24,400 That's pretty powerful. 691 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,320 I mean, Timothy Leary, yeah, he did dedicate 692 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,120 his pretty much adult life to acid. 693 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,480 But Alan Watts, after he had his biggest hit of acid says, 694 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,880 once you get the message, you can hang up the phone. 695 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,360 So when you think about things like MDMA and shrooms, 696 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,080 these become like part of your life. 697 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,160 It's a part of it. 698 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,680 It's kind of one thing you do. 699 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,000 You enjoy it, but it's a compliment. 700 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,640 It's something that helps give you an edge 701 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,080 or helps you through some tough things, 702 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,720 or it helps you become more creative. 703 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,000 It's a helper. 704 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,120 In this case, this is for Lisa, for instance, 705 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,280 and obviously for Annie and for Bailey and for Jack 706 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,840 and for Hayden, this has become primal 707 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,320 because what they've started to realize, 708 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,000 this is something that could change the world. 709 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,320 This could literally transform. 710 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:13,920 If you do this in small communities 711 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,080 and the consciousness can shift and can heal, 712 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,000 this could be affirming for the planet. 713 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,240 So for me, that's the thing that I came away with 714 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,520 in the integration, Jonathan, 715 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,120 especially after that second night. 716 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:27,440 It was powerful. 717 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,840 You went in the second night really believing 718 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,960 that this is something much deeper than you had known? 719 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,440 Yeah, coming out of it especially, 720 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,920 because my purge the second night happened faster 721 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,840 because I literally, after I had a heroes dose 722 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,160 of the Rape the second time, 723 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:43,760 I literally just went right there. 724 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,240 I didn't even make it back to my mat, right? 725 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,200 And then what I did was because I had purged, 726 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,600 I said, well, let's go deeper, right? 727 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,080 You did yours a little bit later, but let's, 728 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,440 hey, it's our last night. 729 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,920 Let's go one more. 730 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,480 Bailey's like, rich, rich, rich, rich. 731 00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:58,640 I'm like, oh shit. 732 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,640 And then we both agreed mentally or spiritually, 733 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,040 if you would, what the dosage should be. 734 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,320 I said, hey, I'm gonna trust you. 735 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,400 Omokasa shimasu, right? 736 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,000 This is like a Japanese place. 737 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,720 You're my sushi chef. 738 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:09,560 You tell me what you got. 739 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:10,680 Well, how are you feeling? 740 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,920 I go, well, I'm feeling X, Y, Z. 741 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:13,760 Well, what do you think? 742 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,160 I said, medium. 743 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:16,920 And then he goes, that's what I was thinking too. 744 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,640 All right, so then I went back 745 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,040 and rather than purging again, 746 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,160 because I didn't really wanna purge. 747 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,640 I wanted just some medicine to give me some fun, right? 748 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,080 I already purged, right? 749 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,520 I just literally, my diaphragm, guys, 750 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,560 my diaphragm on the right side, 751 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,400 I was literally couldn't breathe very well 752 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,960 the second two days. 753 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,040 It's finally gotten better, 754 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,480 but I was hurting physically because, 755 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,040 and I looked it up, I said, 756 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,680 can you hurt your diaphragm after violently vomiting? 757 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,280 And it was right there. 758 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,160 So after I did that, I went back and laid down 759 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,400 after I got my third dosage. 760 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:49,720 And then I just said, you know what? 761 00:34:49,720 --> 00:34:51,360 I'm not gonna vomit this. 762 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,560 I'm not gonna ask for Rappé again, 763 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,480 because you can do Rappé multiple times. 764 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,600 I said, I wanna wrestle and strive 765 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,720 with this medicine this time. 766 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:00,880 And that's when I started to feel the ebb and the flow 767 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:01,720 and the heaving. 768 00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:04,920 And later on the next morning, I asked Bailey, he goes, 769 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,640 dude, there's no right or wrong way to do that. 770 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,120 You wanted to rise in medicine, 771 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,160 that's you striving with it. 772 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,640 It's you working and wrestling. 773 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,880 And this is the, if I could bring one thing 774 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,400 out of this entire experience, 775 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,120 it is this ebbing and flowing and working 776 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,600 and twisting and striving. 777 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,800 And then to have that second, 778 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,440 because it was about me the first night 779 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,680 and the second night I just felt up and down. 780 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,840 The music would come and then the people would laugh 781 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,960 at the same time and then they would puke at the same time. 782 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,760 And then at one point it was quiet, 783 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,320 but everybody's just in their sleeping bag 784 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,000 and they're just tossing and turning 785 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,880 and you could just feel it. 786 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,320 And it sounded like a cacophony of people 787 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,120 and that was the medicine working, 788 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,080 but I just felt like it was a torrent of water, 789 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,120 but it was actually just people twisting and thriving 790 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,680 in their sleeping bags. 791 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,080 They were striving with themselves. 792 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,440 They were striving with the medicine 793 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,280 and with their demons and whatever. 794 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:02,280 So in that regard, I didn't have the same kind of almost, 795 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:04,760 this is the vision, this is the pain, 796 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,160 this is vomiting, it's coming out, 797 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,160 this is the linear path. 798 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,760 It was just this feeling of communal striving together. 799 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:14,640 Yeah, that's a good way to put it. 800 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:15,480 Dave, what about you? 801 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,320 Go ahead. 802 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,200 You, the two of you really invested in the community 803 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,440 and I really respect that 804 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:26,040 because you had the wherewithal to be in that space 805 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:31,040 with a lot of the participants and the leaders. 806 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,680 You know, I was in a very unique for me emotional space 807 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,280 and that second night, it was so vulnerable. 808 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,040 My intention going into that second night was, 809 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,480 A, it was to truly love the inner child, 810 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,000 but B, it was to look at the abandonment 811 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,240 and how that abandonment showed up was in a way 812 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:55,320 I would never have predicted, 813 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,520 which was related to having to let go, 814 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,120 having to let go of these structures in my life 815 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,840 that have held me up for three decades. 816 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,640 And in particular, it was cutting the cord. 817 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,600 And some of us may have experienced 818 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,080 a dark night of the soul. 819 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,480 And that second night was that for me. 820 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,880 It was so dark. 821 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,240 My thoughts were totally out of my control. 822 00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:29,960 It was really difficult at about 3 a.m. in the morning 823 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,960 to be me and what I had to do was step into the community. 824 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,040 I remember pulling both of you aside and saying, 825 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,200 I need you physically right here with me right now. 826 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,240 And the two of you were there. 827 00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:48,000 And I sought out the leader named Annie 828 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,880 and I said, I need help. 829 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,320 And she was right there and she sat with me 830 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:58,320 and she could hear me verbally and see me thinking 831 00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:59,800 things that weren't serving me. 832 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,000 She said, you got to stay in your body. 833 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,920 Your thoughts are not your friend. 834 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:04,960 Yes. 835 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,760 Kept going back to the body. 836 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,280 She said, just stay in it. 837 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,680 She put her hand right on my solar plexus 838 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,600 with this shamanic energy and just held me there 839 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:16,600 as the two of you, 840 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,480 I still am emotional thinking about it, 841 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,600 as the two of you sat right behind me 842 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:22,680 with your hands on me. 843 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:27,240 And she said, just stay right here for about three minutes. 844 00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:28,560 No words were exchanged. 845 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,840 She just sat with her hand on my rib cage 846 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,920 and just said, be in the body, be in the body, 847 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,320 be in the body. 848 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,400 And it was a purifying experience to just sit with that. 849 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,480 And then she did say, hey, I'm gonna give you this Rappei, 850 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,600 which is a grounding experience 851 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,840 and moved me cognitively into a little bit more positive 852 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,000 frame of mind, which was such a relief. 853 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,280 But I still then needed physical contact. 854 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,320 And I asked for what I needed, 855 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,640 which was just honestly to feel hugged, to feel touched, 856 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,720 because I was going through this sense of letting go 857 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:10,320 and forgiving myself and forgiving others. 858 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,080 And so that second night was profound. 859 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,840 It was profound in how much I was able to hold space 860 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,680 for myself by allowing other people to come alongside me. 861 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,680 And that the insight was that I went through something, 862 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,520 like I said before, something really hard, 863 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:39,480 but also I got to kind of a core wound 864 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,280 that I'd never had been able to touch before, 865 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:46,040 which was this terror, this terror of abandonment. 866 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,760 And to do that meant that I needed to not do it by myself. 867 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,480 And that was the magic of that night is through the chemistry, 868 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,440 through the physical presence of others, 869 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,960 and through kind of my own working through the mental 870 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,360 and emotional difficulties, I was able to say, 871 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,280 hey, okay, this is step one of looking at the wound 872 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,040 and that it doesn't define me. 873 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,440 So it was profound. 874 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,360 Yeah, I could jump off on a million thoughts 875 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,320 and what you just shared, because there's so many, 876 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,320 because we are all having kind of, like you said, Rich, 877 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,200 a communal experience. 878 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,360 And I really, the first night for me was all masculine. 879 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,680 It was me, it was ego, it was resistance, 880 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,240 it was hard physically, it was like an endurance event. 881 00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:38,760 And then the second night was all feminine. 882 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,840 It was like this, and I'm sure a lot of people 883 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,880 felt other energies, but that's what I was feeling. 884 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,080 And the second night was pure compassion, 885 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,560 because there was a lot of people really needing, 886 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,880 but there was such an ebb and flow with the ceremony, 887 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,160 because we went from wailing, people were wailing, 888 00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:00,400 crying, vomiting, moaning. 889 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,440 Pleasurable size, we heard. 890 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,920 There was also an ebb and flow, where people were, 891 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,720 we all got up and danced, and kind of went in 892 00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:10,240 around the circle as they were banging the drums 893 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:12,840 and singing a song, and it was just, 894 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,640 it was such a positive energy the second night, 895 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,160 because people had the freedom to release their shit. 896 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,480 Because you realize, where can you go in the world, 897 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:28,160 other than a private counselor, to share your shit? 898 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,920 And everybody was literally vomiting 899 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,000 in front of each other. 900 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,000 It's like, the metaphor of it is so profound, 901 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,720 because we don't have these kind of spaces 902 00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:40,120 in our lives very often. 903 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:41,640 And that's one of the real big reasons 904 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,800 I was attracted to it, is I've been in really 905 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,160 core healing spaces, and this is one of the most 906 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,160 profound healing spaces I've ever experienced. 907 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:53,520 When I went into the second day, 908 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,760 I was in a completely different frame of mind. 909 00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,320 The first hour, I'm like, no matter what, 910 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,760 even if it's suffering, it's all gonna be good. 911 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,640 And I can get through it, and I had a perspective 912 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,000 of the first night, and I just relaxed. 913 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,960 And I just, I was in such a good mood, regardless, 914 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,960 and then the, I had a very, that's when I closed my eyes 915 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,400 for the first, I tried not to go to sleep. 916 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,400 I didn't wanna fall asleep, 917 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,520 because it makes you kind of a little bit drowsy, 918 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,360 but in a weird way. 919 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:28,960 It is. 920 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,480 I wanted to curl up in a ball and just pass out, 921 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:32,300 but I didn't want to. 922 00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:33,520 I wanted to stay in the experience, 923 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,560 because I didn't want, I left the night before 924 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,720 at two o'clock, when I was done. 925 00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:39,960 You went to bed. 926 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:41,240 Yeah, I went to bed. 927 00:42:41,240 --> 00:42:44,400 And I thought, this night, I needed to take 928 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,560 a strong approach to my own, 929 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,240 I wanted to take that extra dose if I needed it, 930 00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:51,040 to go into that space, 931 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,080 because the idea is you can keep doing it. 932 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:58,920 And so I said, I walked up to Annie, and I said, 933 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,560 what do I need? 934 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,120 And she called me, and she goes, 935 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:03,560 you need a hero's dose tonight. 936 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:04,720 And I said, okay. 937 00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:07,600 So it was double of what everybody took, 938 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,560 because the previous night, it didn't kick in. 939 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,120 She goes, let's just go there. 940 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,520 And then I laid down, and I closed my eyes, 941 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,640 and that's when the color started, 942 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,640 and then it hit me. 943 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,000 Rich, you described that movement. 944 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:29,000 I saw an orb that was in the frame of mind right here, 945 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,800 and it was just constant dance of movement. 946 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,200 It was elegant movement, saying, 947 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,680 I have more energy than I know what to do with, 948 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,840 and I'm just enjoying life. 949 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:41,960 Everything is free. 950 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,360 I'm in complete freedom. 951 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:45,520 And all of a sudden, 952 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,240 I'm completely connected to that feeling. 953 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,600 And it reminded me of the first time I did LSD. 954 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:55,640 The source. 955 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,000 Where I felt source at a level that, 956 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,520 it was so profound that all of a sudden, 957 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,640 I don't know if I got scared, but I opened my eyes, 958 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,800 and then I closed them again, going, will it come back? 959 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:08,640 I wouldn't back. 960 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,840 I didn't know, it's like, I missed the vibe. 961 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,440 I got off the rail. 962 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,680 So I went outside, and I'm looking at the moon, 963 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,720 because the moon was just ridiculous, 964 00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:21,360 and I leaned over the railing, 965 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,920 because the air felt really nice, and it came back. 966 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,320 And then it changed, but it was that sense. 967 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,480 And then I had a profound feeling of, 968 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,160 like imagine people in 2500 BC, 969 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,400 who have no real conception of God. 970 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,720 What did Abraham experience to feel that difference? 971 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:43,040 And they must've cowered in fear, 972 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:47,520 because I was realized the feeling was just pure good. 973 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:53,760 It was belonging, and it was a warm wrap of love. 974 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,840 And I remember not wanting to get disconnected, 975 00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,120 but then I had an awareness of, 976 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,280 I see how people can get scared of that in history, 977 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:03,640 to experience God. 978 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,040 I felt like I experienced God in that moment. 979 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,560 Profoundly. 980 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,280 One of the top three most profound experiences 981 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,880 of God I've ever had, because it was penetrating. 982 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,160 It wasn't long, it only lasted probably about two minutes. 983 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,400 And then outside was probably another minute. 984 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,880 And then the rest of the night, 985 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,440 I went back into a wrestling mode, 986 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,480 because I was like, I wanted to go deeper. 987 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,400 So the second time I went back to Annie, 988 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,400 she said, or she said, what do you want? 989 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:37,640 And I said, you choose. 990 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:38,800 And she laughed at me again. 991 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,840 She goes, playing good medicine woman. 992 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,360 She closed her eyes and then she said, okay, I know. 993 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:46,480 And she took the smoke. 994 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,480 What was the smoke called, Rich? 995 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:49,320 The cigarette? 996 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:50,160 The Pappacho. 997 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,240 She took the Pappacho, and the practice is you suck it in, 998 00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:57,600 then you blow it on the entity or the body, 999 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,640 and it creates a sense of protection and wellbeing. 1000 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,680 And she blew it on me. 1001 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,680 And instantly, no, Jack blew it on me for her. 1002 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:14,760 And she was sitting in front of me 1003 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,400 and she saw I'm gonna throw up. 1004 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,040 She throws a bucket in front of me. 1005 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,720 And I literally was like a crown 1006 00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:24,440 purging into the bucket in front of the entire room. 1007 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,440 And it's all candle lit from behind. 1008 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,480 And I'm like, oh my God. 1009 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,760 But it was kind of perfect because I realized 1010 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,760 it was a beautiful enough space that I didn't care. 1011 00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:39,360 Everybody was in it together. 1012 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,840 There were no witnesses. 1013 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,520 Everybody was a participant. 1014 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,600 So everybody knew how I felt. 1015 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,160 And they were all there to do that too. 1016 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,120 And it completely transformed the purge for me 1017 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,600 to this thing that it's also a bonding moment. 1018 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,440 And then for the rest of the night, I just kept saying, 1019 00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,520 I need to figure it out. 1020 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,680 So like, why did I really come there? 1021 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,280 Because I had no awareness of, 1022 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,200 and then I had moments with my dad, 1023 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:06,920 a lot of moments with my son. 1024 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,120 And they realized dealing with some primary relationships 1025 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,040 and really wrestling through what it means to love 1026 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,120 in those spaces. 1027 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,000 And so the whole night was me then, 1028 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:18,680 I went back three times. 1029 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,040 And the third time I went back to, 1030 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,520 or the last two times I went back to Bailey 1031 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,480 because I felt like I was much more attracted 1032 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,880 to the masculine approach for some reason. 1033 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:29,880 That's what was going through. 1034 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,360 I needed to choose Bailey for some reason. 1035 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:38,360 And then I had, I never really had much purges after that. 1036 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,320 I had two more episodes or two more doses. 1037 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,680 And then it was over. 1038 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:51,080 And I was like, oh, my goal was to stay the whole ceremony 1039 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,560 and go all the way with what my intention was. 1040 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,160 And I did that. Exactly. 1041 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,000 And that was a, it was a beautiful feeling. 1042 00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,160 It really was. 1043 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:05,680 So next day, wake up. 1044 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:07,680 What are you guys feeling? 1045 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,680 What was sort of that moment on the second day? 1046 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,840 The ceremonies are over. 1047 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,960 What showed up for you guys after that? 1048 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,400 For me, there was a lot of joy and a lot of gratitude. 1049 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,040 One, there was, even though there was one more night, 1050 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,120 so you could do either one, two or three nights. 1051 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,640 So some people were coming for, staying for a third night 1052 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,240 and others were very quickly leaving. 1053 00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:35,040 There was a joy and gratitude of what we had been 1054 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,640 through community together. 1055 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,160 There was some sadness that, I saw people leaving, 1056 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:42,680 driving in their cars, going away. 1057 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,760 There wasn't a formal closing ceremony. 1058 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,360 So there was a sense of, 1059 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,240 there wasn't a closure necessarily as a community. 1060 00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:54,680 And so there was some sadness about that, 1061 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,960 that this was sort of a one-time experience. 1062 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,120 That this group of people that experienced 1063 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:06,200 a spiritual community together for this dedicated moment 1064 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,040 in time wouldn't be together again. 1065 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:09,960 And so I remember as I see people driving away, 1066 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,400 a couple of whom who I'd had really in-depth conversations 1067 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,000 with and like, well, thank you. 1068 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,280 And then the third thing was to eat. 1069 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:24,280 Just the practical sense of, I was starving. 1070 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:29,360 And in that process, nurture, nurturing myself. 1071 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,480 And there was some sort of unpacking the experience 1072 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,040 with a couple of other people, the two of you 1073 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,400 and some others who had gone through it together. 1074 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:43,400 But mostly, yeah, joy, gratitude, 1075 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,400 and this sort of lifting. 1076 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,320 The heaviness was gone. 1077 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,120 There was this sense of light, a lightness. 1078 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:53,800 So that was a real relief. 1079 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:56,520 Rich, what about you? 1080 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:57,880 What showed up after we left? 1081 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:00,120 The next day. 1082 00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:05,120 The next day was kind of wild because at 3.30, I went to bed 1083 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,480 and then at 6.30 in the morning, 1084 00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,400 I heard a trumpet being blasted. 1085 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,160 And I thought Bailey was waking us all up 1086 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:13,920 on what I thought was the last day, 1087 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:15,160 bringing in the sun, 1088 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,000 and the masculine side of things. 1089 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,960 And then I realized that it's Adrienne's phone alarm 1090 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,520 that's going off and poor Hayden was dying. 1091 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,600 And so I got up, did my morning sun, 1092 00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,520 grounded, loved it, did some stretching. 1093 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,160 And I noticed that one of the gals, 1094 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,320 there was a gal that came with a Spanish gal was out there 1095 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,480 and she was also enjoying the sun, 1096 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:37,920 but she started doing stretching 1097 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,080 on the actual physical asphalt. 1098 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:41,600 And then I said, that doesn't look good. 1099 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,320 So I went inside and there's the communal asphalt. 1100 00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,160 There's the communal aspect was still resonating with me. 1101 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,920 Grab this mat, take it out to her. 1102 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,200 And she goes, oh my God, thank you. 1103 00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:51,360 And then all of a sudden I flipped it. 1104 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,520 It's too sad, it was black and it was green. 1105 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,200 I put the green side down and she goes, 1106 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:56,840 that's my favorite color. 1107 00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,280 It was just wild, right? 1108 00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,680 And so she got to do her stretching. 1109 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,680 I ended up doing mine as well. 1110 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,000 And then it just continued, right? 1111 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:09,000 With helping out, getting stuff together, right? 1112 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,680 Trying to help out in the kitchen, making this and that, 1113 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,320 and making a big strong pot of coffee. 1114 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:17,400 And for me, the communal aspect kind of continued, right? 1115 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,760 And as I was leaving, I was looking forward 1116 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,720 to getting back together with family 1117 00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:23,240 and sharing and processing. 1118 00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:26,760 And my son's gone through a terrible breakup. 1119 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,360 All these kids have gone through these breakups. 1120 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:32,160 So Hunter, my son has this close knit group of friends. 1121 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,080 They went it all here and we just shared 1122 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,320 till the wee hours of the night, like 11.30 late, 1123 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,560 it was a school night and we were like, let's just go. 1124 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:44,040 It's leaning and wrestling into moving in together 1125 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:48,040 and dealing with girls and relationships and processing. 1126 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,440 It was really cool because it felt like, 1127 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:53,720 it was almost like an extension, right? 1128 00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:55,320 But without being on psychedelics. 1129 00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,400 And that's what I was hoping to continue 1130 00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:58,840 to get out of it going forward. 1131 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:03,840 And I told Bailey that my second night wasn't as profound 1132 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,840 as my first night, but it was still so meaningful, 1133 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,440 so worthwhile and it was different, right? 1134 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:12,480 It was just different. 1135 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,560 And I told him, we need to do this again. 1136 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,120 And if you talk to a lot of these people, 1137 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,240 they've been, Whitney's done it 11 times. 1138 00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:21,840 This is something that requires multiple times 1139 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,880 to continue to dig in, find those hidden blind spots 1140 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:26,760 that you might not even be aware of 1141 00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,400 and to just wrestle and grow. 1142 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,920 And so that's how I kind of settled into that stuff, right? 1143 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,480 So yeah, I mean, that's kind of it for me on that day 1144 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:37,720 and my way back in. 1145 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,920 Yeah, I had a lot of, the second day, 1146 00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:43,800 I did not have enough sleep. 1147 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,040 I actually took a dose at 330. 1148 00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,080 And so I was nauseous in bed for two hours, 1149 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,760 just like, and the hard part about the nausea 1150 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,160 is it would bring on heat sweats. 1151 00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,760 So you're feeling like your body's 120 degrees 1152 00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,680 and didn't want any covers, but you don't feel comfortable. 1153 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,680 It was just, that whole last night was awful 1154 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,040 because I was wrestling through some personal issues 1155 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,800 and I couldn't get a sense of resolution about them. 1156 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,280 But I still felt like I fought for them. 1157 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,360 In reflection, it was the next day as we drove, 1158 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,040 Rich, you and I drove back to Ventura 1159 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:20,880 and then I drove home. 1160 00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,280 So I was in the car for eight hours and five. 1161 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:28,240 I got to have a conversation with my son, my daughter, 1162 00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:31,640 got to go home and have some really great 1163 00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,680 family conversations that were, 1164 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:41,920 I hadn't very, I had almost no feeling of anger 1165 00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:46,320 at facing my own problems. 1166 00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,200 And that was one of the things that led up to that. 1167 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:50,040 Yeah. 1168 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,680 So when I got home, I knew exactly what I needed to say 1169 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:58,800 and it felt like it was completely embedded in love. 1170 00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,160 Like it was that same energy in that room 1171 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,480 I was bringing home to my family and saying, 1172 00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:08,600 I need to translate that. 1173 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,000 I actually said to my wife, I said, I want you to try it. 1174 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,840 She was actually surprisingly intrigued by it. 1175 00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:17,240 Not mine. 1176 00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:20,520 Yeah, she didn't, well, maybe she could talk her into it. 1177 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,080 But it was really a sense of, 1178 00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:24,680 I could see my kids doing this. 1179 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,800 It's a value, we've all touched on it. 1180 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,560 The valuable experience isn't just the healing, 1181 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:32,480 it's the awareness that I can do. 1182 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,040 That was one of the most profound things 1183 00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,120 that I took away from the whole thing 1184 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:42,360 is I made it through the weekend and I sloughed off. 1185 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:43,920 I got in the way on the first night, 1186 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,480 but I fully went into it and I loved on the community 1187 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:52,480 and it was an amazing experience and it was like, yeah. 1188 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,360 So I would invite anybody to do this that I've ever met. 1189 00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:57,640 100%. 1190 00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,280 Yeah, I wanna add one thing. 1191 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,280 There's a lot about integration. 1192 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,600 There's a lot said about embodied, being embodied. 1193 00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,400 That to me was the big takeaway. 1194 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,240 I now understand what it feels like to be truly embodied. 1195 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:13,640 Like you can't have a medicinal experience 1196 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,760 more embodied, somatic than this. 1197 00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,840 And so the experience was so total 1198 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,600 in terms of not just brain, not just nervous system, 1199 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,920 not just somatic experience. 1200 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,480 It was this total integration of being embodied. 1201 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,120 So the rest of that day driving home, 1202 00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,000 there was this, not like a Superman kind of feeling, 1203 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:42,000 not manic, but this sense of, oh, I feel very embodied, 1204 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,400 very full, very full in what I was able to experience. 1205 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,800 And that's unusual. 1206 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,680 That's unusual to have experiences that leave, 1207 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,960 at least left me with this sense of that my full 1208 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,280 sort of human experience was integrated. 1209 00:55:58,280 --> 00:55:59,560 Awesome. 1210 00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,040 Rhys, what about you? 1211 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:02,640 What was your biggest takeaway? 1212 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,240 I'd say my biggest takeaway, 1213 00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,960 and I think this is the power of it, 1214 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:16,680 is that it is a communal, it's a communal, 1215 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,720 it's a communal experience. 1216 00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:21,520 It's individually healing, 1217 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,480 but the end result has to be transformation 1218 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,280 and transformation communally. 1219 00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:27,960 I don't know, Dave, if you knew this, 1220 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,680 but a lot of the warriors in the Amazon 1221 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,200 would go on hunts or they'd go into battle. 1222 00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,000 And one of the ways they'd assimilate back into the tribe 1223 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:37,320 is to do ayahuasca. 1224 00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:38,160 So think about that. 1225 00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,280 You've seen something violent, you've done violent acts, 1226 00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,000 you've eaten hearts or you've killed people. 1227 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,840 And you take the ayahuasca and ultimately, 1228 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,440 you're getting re-assembled back into the tribe. 1229 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:50,920 That's the whole point, right? 1230 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:54,240 How does Mama Ayahuasca create an experience so profound 1231 00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:59,240 that it not only is extant, you're showing it, right? 1232 00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:01,360 Somebody's gonna see you and they go, oh, you've changed, 1233 00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,320 or you've got some new ideas, or that's what's going on. 1234 00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:05,560 And I think that's part of it. 1235 00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:07,080 That's how it's going to spread, 1236 00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:08,880 just kind of like an Amazonian plant 1237 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,120 and the forest kind of can spread, right? 1238 00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,640 So the idea, I mean, you think about Jesus, right? 1239 00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,960 If we're truly transformed by the works 1240 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,040 and the Holy Spirit, we should have that kind of expression 1241 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:22,560 as we go out and not be antagonists to the church, right? 1242 00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,240 There are people that are legalistic and live in the head 1243 00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,440 and live in theology and dichotomies. 1244 00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,800 And I think this one is definitely, 1245 00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:31,880 I think the purpose of it is to heal yourself 1246 00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:33,800 so you can heal others ultimately. 1247 00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:34,640 That's my takeaway. 1248 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:39,640 You know, at the last day, Annie talked about 1249 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,160 wanting to start a church and it's probably 1250 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,600 the purest sense of church I've ever felt. 1251 00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:46,400 Oh yeah. 1252 00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,880 Like that sense of community is, 1253 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,000 that you're talking about, Rich, is, 1254 00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:52,280 like it's on another level. 1255 00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:57,280 And I think it's because it was really great set in setting. 1256 00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,960 Like Bailey and Annie and the team did an amazing job 1257 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,160 of setting it up and making it a great place 1258 00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:04,800 and a great place to be. 1259 00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,440 And I think that's the amazing job of setting it up. 1260 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:13,440 But people came with a really high level of intentionality 1261 00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,480 that I have rarely seen in normal churches. 1262 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:17,320 Like it was bad. 1263 00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:18,160 Serious. 1264 00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:19,000 Yeah. 1265 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:20,320 Yeah, they were really serious. 1266 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:21,160 Yeah. 1267 00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:25,200 I gave Timothy a hug the second morning. 1268 00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:29,000 It's like, Timothy was, as you guys know, Bailey's dad, 1269 00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,320 and he was just rustling, oh my God, both nights. 1270 00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:33,160 And he doesn't even know Young, 1271 00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,000 but he's reading archetypes about, 1272 00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,240 that Young brought up that some other talked about. 1273 00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,960 So I did really enjoy engaging with the community. 1274 00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,440 I remember talking to Nikki and to this gal named Simi. 1275 00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,200 I've got Simi's phone and I want to talk to her 1276 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,000 because Nikki left the second day 1277 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,480 without showing up that night. 1278 00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,000 And we're like, what's up with that? 1279 00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:54,920 We were gonna work through stuff together, right? 1280 00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,400 And so to me, that's the, yeah, this is it. 1281 00:58:58,400 --> 00:58:59,240 This is the way. 1282 00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,800 I have one additional thought two days later. 1283 00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:04,440 There's this Zen concept. 1284 00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,440 Before I was enlightened, I chopped wood and I carried water. 1285 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:13,600 After I was enlightened, I chopped wood and I carried water. 1286 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:14,440 Yeah. 1287 00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:18,440 And we don't leave our neuroses behind. 1288 00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:23,440 We just come from a maybe a wiser adult place. 1289 00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,600 And my big takeaway was this adaptive child 1290 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:29,800 Terry Real for those that know of Terry Real 1291 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,520 uses the adaptive child concept. 1292 00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,760 The adaptive child can stand down a little bit. 1293 00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,840 The wise adult knows a little bit better how to show up, 1294 00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,560 but I'm still chopping wood and carrying water. 1295 00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:47,080 Still each day, as all we all do as humans. 1296 00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,240 So this was a big forward step. 1297 00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,200 It gives me some more wise adult tools and yet life goes on. 1298 00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:59,200 And yet life goes on. 1299 00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:00,040 Awesome. 1300 01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:01,240 Rich, any final words? 1301 01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,720 No, I just recommend to the audience, if you're wrestling 1302 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,360 and you've tried a lot of different things like therapy 1303 01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:11,800 or other psychedelics, I'd highly recommend 1304 01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,560 looking into Ayahuasca and making sure 1305 01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,040 that you've got a great community like we did. 1306 01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,720 The preparation, these guys at the Yagi Assembly 1307 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:25,600 have sessions in Tucson, Ukiah, and of course Joshua Tree 1308 01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:30,600 and the level of structure and discipline and communication. 1309 01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:35,240 It was so, I mean, half the battle is the scaredness 1310 01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:36,880 that you'd have of doing something like this. 1311 01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:38,160 It's totally different. 1312 01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,560 And if anybody could have done a better job, 1313 01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,000 it's hard to imagine. 1314 01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,920 So kudos to the team, Bailey and Annie 1315 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,960 and everybody else who assisted, that's what I'd say. 1316 01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:49,080 Agree. 1317 01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,960 Dave, any final words? 1318 01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:55,080 I think we all would wholeheartedly recommend it. 1319 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,880 I think we would also recommend that you, 1320 01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,200 it's great if you can go with somebody 1321 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,160 because it creates a richer experience. 1322 01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:08,920 I think it's also wise, I mean, you don't have to have done 1323 01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,000 other sort of transformational experiences, you know, 1324 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:17,000 but it helps if you go in with something you're working on. 1325 01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,360 Many people there, there was a crisis, 1326 01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:21,800 there was a life change. 1327 01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:26,800 And so, you know, my recommendation is 1328 01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,800 don't be afraid of the unknown. 1329 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,200 This is about as big into the unknown as you can step into, 1330 01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,960 but it is a, I think we looked at one point, 1331 01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,560 it's a 2000, 3000 year old tradition. 1332 01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:43,800 And so this tradition has been around cultures for millennia 1333 01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:46,200 and it's proven. 1334 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:50,720 And so, yeah, my encouragement is to try it 1335 01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,640 and, you know, step into something 1336 01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:56,760 that maybe feels really uncomfortable 1337 01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,160 because there's a lot to be said for being uncomfortable 1338 01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,560 and finding that you can work your way through it. 1339 01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,800 Yeah, for me, it was one of the most profound things 1340 01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:08,960 I've ever experienced. 1341 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,640 I agree with you guys, wholeheartedly recommend, 1342 01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,640 especially Bailey and Annie, they were amazing. 1343 01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:18,880 The whole process was amazing 1344 01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:23,920 and I would absolutely do it again. 1345 01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:25,760 Rich, would you do it again? 1346 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,080 100%, I mentioned that. 1347 01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:28,720 Yeah, I've got to go back. 1348 01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:29,560 Yeah. 1349 01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,440 Dave, would you do it again? 1350 01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:32,640 Oh, without question. 1351 01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,400 Yeah, and I would do it, yeah, 1352 01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,320 I would do it three nights if possible, 1353 01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:38,680 though they, you know, a long weekend 1354 01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,320 because there is a compounding experience to it. 1355 01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,160 Each night builds on itself, so. 1356 01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:47,840 Yeah, so this has been one of my favorite, 1357 01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,400 I get to say at this time, one of my favorite episodes 1358 01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,080 because this one was really personal. 1359 01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:54,680 And Dave, thank you for being with us, Rich. 1360 01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:56,440 It was so good to hear your heart again. 1361 01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:57,920 I love sitting with you, brother. 1362 01:02:57,920 --> 01:02:58,880 That was both of you. 1363 01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,040 I love that process. 1364 01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,640 Thank you for doing the journey with me. 1365 01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:04,240 If you've never tried ayahuasca, 1366 01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:05,800 to me, it's the closest thing to medicine 1367 01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:10,800 I've ever experienced and it is a beautiful experience. 1368 01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,240 To all of our listeners, please, 1369 01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:13,800 we'd love to hear your thoughts on this one. 1370 01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:15,920 We'd love for you to step out of the shadows 1371 01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:17,840 and let us know what you think. 1372 01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:19,440 You can always connect on our website, 1373 01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,920 livinginthematrix.ai or on Instagram. 1374 01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:25,360 We'd love to hear from you. 1375 01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,200 Thank you for, have a great week, everyone. 1376 01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,200 It's Tuesday here when we're recording 1377 01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,680 and we just wish you the absolute best. 1378 01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:34,520 Peace and much love, everybody. 1379 01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:35,360 Thank you. 1380 01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:40,360 Thank you for joining us.