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I'm the owner of The Matrix, I'm Jonathan,

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and I'm left of center.

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And I'm Rich, and I tend to lean a little bit more

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to the right, but the bottom line is, is together,

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we try to look for the balance of what it means

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to be human in today's world.

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All right, let's get started.

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Welcome to Living in the Matrix, I'm Jonathan.

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This is my co-host Rich, say hello, Rich.

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Hey everybody, so great to be back with you guys

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and it's Friday and I'm in a special place,

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you know, for all of our YouTube listeners out there.

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Studio, if you would, it's, I'm in Breckenridge, Colorado.

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I'm wishing that everybody out there is cool

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because it's almost 85 degrees out here right now.

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So if it's 85 in Breckenridge, Colorado,

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it's gotta be hot every place else.

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So hope everybody's staying cool out there.

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Yeah, but if you're in Colorado,

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it's really beautiful wherever you go.

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I love going there.

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It's gorgeous.

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Yes. All right, today, folks,

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we have a really interesting guest.

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I have been looking forward to this all week.

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We have a guest or someone who's interacted

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on listening to our podcast

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has sent in recommendations for guests.

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And it has been such an interesting take

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interacting with our guests.

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We would love more.

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So if you have information or have ideas,

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send them our way.

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But today I invited Joel Frederick,

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who is a longtime listener of our show,

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to come on to the show

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and we're just gonna have a great conversation.

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Welcome, Joel.

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Hey, thanks for having me on, guys.

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Really love the podcast.

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Thank you.

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So let's start with the obvious question,

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which is what made you say,

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I want to listen to that?

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Well, it was interesting earlier this year,

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you know, I was in that mode of looking for information,

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looking and just seeking alternative sources

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because of where I was at my journey.

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And so I said, well, you know,

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I need to tune into some podcasts.

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I need to see what's out there.

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And, you know, so sure enough,

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I got to mow my grass one day and I pull up Spotify

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and I'm looking at the titles

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and I come across Living in the Matrix.

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And I'm like, wow, what an interesting title.

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What an interesting description of what we're living in right now.

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And it just resonated.

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And so, you know, I listened to the first episode

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and I was hooked because I felt like the dialogue

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you guys are having are a lot of the things

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that people are wanting to learn more about.

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They're already having those conversations

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in their small groups, in their heads.

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And honestly, the guests and the conversations

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have been fantastic.

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So I've listened to pretty much all of them

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and I really, you know, I learned a ton of information,

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obviously, but also just to enjoy the journey

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of doing my own research based on some of the topics

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that were discussed.

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Yeah, that's amazing.

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Thank you for that.

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What's the one episode that sticks out in your mind?

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I mean, there's so many.

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You know, I think one of the first ones was Sean Clayton.

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And just, you know, I think it was episode maybe three

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or something and just mind blowing,

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I think with Sean and his journey,

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just how he learned to refocus on everything

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that's happened to him and frame it in a way

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that this was what I created in order to love myself more.

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And I, you know, I'd never heard anything like that,

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just reframing everything that,

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because, you know, I don't know about you guys,

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but when I started off as a young man,

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I didn't want to have any regrets in life.

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You know, I had goals, I don't want to have any regrets.

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And of course, you know, as life goes on,

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you realize that was pretty immature

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to think that I wouldn't have.

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And, but I think when you look at the way Sean framed things,

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it's like, okay, well, everything that happens in life

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is for a reason.

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Absolutely.

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And not just that, you create it in some way

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to love yourself more.

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And just what a beautiful way to frame that

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and to be able to process that.

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So, you know, that's definitely one,

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I mean, I could name a few others.

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Lindsay Karakardi was a more recent one.

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And I loved how she kind of went from a literal study

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of the Bible to a metaphysical

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and just looked at it in a completely different way.

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You know, was it Dr. David Dell?

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Oh yeah, I've seen him.

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Yeah, he-

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Oh, that's Warby actually.

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Was that Warby?

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Yeah, Warby's out of El Paso.

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Dell was out of Illinois.

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That's right.

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Oh yeah, he had the beard.

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Yeah, amazing.

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Yeah, I loved him saying people come to me

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come to counseling because they want to feel good.

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And I helped them to be good at feeling,

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which I thought was great.

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And, you know, I could mention two more.

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Brittany Hartley.

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Yes.

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I loved that conversation.

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That's one of my favorite ones of how rich it was.

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And I thought that she did a great job of just

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displaying how we can love other people,

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even when they have different spiritual beliefs.

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Like you don't have to just, you know, rain on their parade.

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They're on the journey.

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They see things the way they see it.

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I think you can really be gracious

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in sharing experiences, even if you don't align

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with how they're describing it.

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And I also loved what she said about people.

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People ultimately have to make the choice.

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You can tell them some information.

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You can show them the door,

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but they have to walk through it, you know,

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which I thought was great.

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And I think for many of us who have been on this journey,

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we know that you have to do the work

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to actually process and be ready to walk through that door.

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You can't just walk through the door.

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You have to be, you're ready when you're ready.

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And you can't force people through that.

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So that's just a couple.

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I could name a few more, but yeah, great stuff, guys.

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Great conversations.

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Yeah, well, believe it or not, we're up to 32 episodes now

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that we've produced.

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I was going to say that what struck me so much

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was that when we did Sean Clayton,

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that first time episode three, I was actually here.

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It's the only time I've done a podcast that it was here.

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So maybe there's something magic about Breckenridge,

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but one of the things that,

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one of the things we've seen as this common viewpoint,

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we have tried to lead with love.

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We have noticed that no matter what the study,

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whether it's meditation or cold plunges, biohacking,

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whether it's something like coming out

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of a terrible religious experience

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and creating a new paradigm, it's all love.

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Love is there.

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It kind of runs through it.

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We've had a couple that really don't have that necessarily

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at their heart, and it's always impossible to do.

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But one of the things we noticed was it became less

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and less talking about a simulation,

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like the way we've got the matrix and the real world,

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even though everybody's got their own definition of that.

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But it's about how do we help people break through, right?

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How do you break through the status quo?

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So we try to make it a little bit more grounded in that

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because it is really ephemeral to talk about the matrix.

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So those are the kinds of things we're trying to track.

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Well, I think Sean kind of caught in a metaphorical way

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with that idea.

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He's the first person that ever boldly claimed

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anything bad that happened to me, I caused.

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And that was a turning point for me because what he did

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is he basically said the old way of thinking,

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the matrix way of thinking is it's somebody else's fault.

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And it might be the impetus of the fault,

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but it's still my responsibility.

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And I think that is what awakening is out of the matrix,

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is this realization that I am worth it enough to get out

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and to not be part of it, to awaken to my responsibility

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for myself because here's the reality.

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Over the last year and a half that we've been doing this,

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my life has radically changed.

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Rich and I were talking about it that when you repeatedly

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tell your body the same thing positively over and over

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and over, you are rewriting the scripts over a 90 day period

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into your parasympathetic nervous system.

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And you can actively change yourself.

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And I think that's the whole journey of this podcast

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has been to chart that it is possible to change.

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It is possible to grow as a human being.

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So I love your insights.

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Joel, what you saw, which is we wanted this to really be

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a human podcast about what it means to be a human being.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And as you mentioned that, I'm actually,

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one of the things I'm contemplating is removing

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the limiting beliefs about money.

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So, I mean, like most Americans, I put paycheck to paycheck

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for most of my life.

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I've had some moments where I've manifested

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and actually increased my income.

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And I could share more about that.

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But the bottom line is I'm trying to learn more

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about my subconscious and how, if we keep feeding ourselves

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with the beliefs we want, the beliefs, where we want to go,

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we can over time remove those subconscious,

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unlimited beliefs. And so, yeah, that's one of the areas

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I'm really focused on right now.

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Have you, Rich, you were talking about what's your mantra

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that you're talking about right now?

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Well, believe it or not.

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That's how you go after those limiting beliefs

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is you rewrite the script, it's opposite them.

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Yeah, so I was on Instagram one day and I was,

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you see these reels, there's Anthony Hopkins

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and Anthony Hopkins, who is a great actor.

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He actually plays diabolical characters in Hannibal Lecter,

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but he also plays C.S. Lewis, which is amazing dichotomy, right?

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So here's what he says, say this three times a day,

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at least twice a day if you can, morning and evening.

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It says, universe, I am open and ready for you

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to start conspiring in my favor to make my dreams come true.

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And I request a clear sign of my reality today to come to me.

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I'm open, I'm ready, thank you.

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So he's got a little alchemist vibes in there, right?

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With the universe will conspire with you, et cetera, et cetera.

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But the funny thing about it is,

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is that it started to really work

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and I actually had my son do it and he said,

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I just had some amazing news today and we laugh at it.

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We get to the place as humans where we're like,

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wait a minute, I'm so in the dumps

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that how am I supposed to manifest anything

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when I can't even get out of bed in the morning?

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And there's something, this is where I believe,

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I still believe it, Jonathan and I are disagreeing

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on a lot of kind of ontological, theological constructs

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of like deity and being God or having God help out

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and avatars and stuff.

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But there's this idea where I still believe

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that even though Neo figured out he was the one,

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he had to do it, right?

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If he didn't, the world would end.

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But he had a little help along the way.

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He had some people looking for him and trying to help out.

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And I think sometimes that thing where we start,

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maybe it's grace, right?

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Grace is that prompt.

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Grace is that prompt that says you can get out of bed.

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00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,160
You read something by Mark Loserilius who says,

260
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:49,440
dude, you gotta get out of bed, right?

261
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,960
You hear about, I don't know, maybe St. Paul.

262
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,280
Maybe you think about saying, if I just say it, right?

263
00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,880
If I just say it once or twice or three times,

264
00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,000
let's see what happens.

265
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,520
And I think that's the grace, that's the divine,

266
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,120
that's the cosmos trying to help lift you up, I think.

267
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,800
So I'm still willing to have that interaction, right?

268
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,120
I'm doing stuff, but at the same time on the same coin,

269
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,160
two sides of the same coin, I believe there's help

270
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,520
coming from the outside.

271
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:16,400
I don't know, what do you think?

272
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,640
How long have you been doing the mantra?

273
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,000
I've only been doing it for,

274
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,360
I literally finally wrote it down

275
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:22,960
because I just literally wanted to go back.

276
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,560
I heard about it months ago.

277
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:26,880
And then I've been doing it recently more often,

278
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,400
just for the last week or so.

279
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:29,760
And I'm about to close,

280
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,000
I'm probably number one in the quarter, this quarter.

281
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,840
And I'm about to close a company that is one of the most

282
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,640
biggest darling AI companies in the world.

283
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:39,840
I'm not gonna tell you the name of it,

284
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,080
even though there's no NDA, but imagine being able

285
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,240
to work with like one of the second largest,

286
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,640
most valuable client companies in the world, right?

287
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,840
So, and being able to just walk through that process

288
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,680
with desire to do good for them, right?

289
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:55,680
It's been almost effortless in many ways

290
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:57,360
and about the time and stuff like that.

291
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,520
So those are the things that I really appreciate.

292
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:00,360
You know?

293
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,520
Yeah, I'll share, you know, one of the things

294
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,400
that I'm listening to, but it's by Bob Proctor.

295
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,000
You can find it on YouTube.

296
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,120
But the mantra is, and I've got it right here.

297
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,280
It says, I'm so happy and grateful.

298
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,080
Now that money comes to me in increasing quantities

299
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,640
through multiple sources on a continuous basis.

300
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,120
And it says that over and over.

301
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,280
But I think, you know, that's just one example.

302
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,720
And the example you gave, Rich, these are all tools.

303
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:31,920
And that's the way I look at it.

304
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:32,640
These are tools.

305
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,560
There are so many different tools and mediums

306
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,640
in which we can manifest.

307
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:43,040
But I think the thing that I've come to understand now

308
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,560
is it's all about faith.

309
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:46,160
It's all about believing.

310
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,400
And that's what Neo had to do.

311
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:49,280
He had to believe.

312
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,040
And I think some people say the word manifest.

313
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,040
Some people use the word faith.

314
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,120
And I'm from a Christian background like you guys.

315
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,320
I come from an evangelical Christian church.

316
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,160
And so faith has always been very important to me.

317
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:09,120
But yeah, I think that I have two really good examples

318
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,680
of where I believe something was gonna happen.

319
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:12,720
And it happened.

320
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,320
And for me at that time in my life, it was focused on prayer.

321
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,840
But the bottom line is the faith was absolutely there.

322
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,720
I can share when we moved to Jacksonville,

323
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,560
my wife has some autoimmune conditions.

324
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,840
And we were looking to get to a warmer climate.

325
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,920
So I dragged my feet for six months.

326
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,000
And finally I go, okay, let me approach my manager at the time.

327
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,600
And if he's cool with me working from home full time,

328
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,680
that'll open up the door for us to move anywhere.

329
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:50,480
So I did.

330
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,680
And he was very receptive to that.

331
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,400
And he was very supportive.

332
00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,480
And so he goes, look, ultimately it's a HR process,

333
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,720
but you're gonna have my support.

334
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,600
That gave me the green light.

335
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,240
And so from there on, I just believed

336
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,480
that the road would be paved,

337
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,720
that there would be no obstacles.

338
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,080
And when I say that, it was 100%.

339
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:17,760
There was no doubt in my mind

340
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,760
that God already knew the house, that it was already there.

341
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,840
And it was just a matter of us waiting.

342
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,040
And so the interesting part,

343
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,200
as months and weeks went by, that was back in January,

344
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,520
come July, we're renting our house back in North Carolina.

345
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,720
And we have maybe three or four more weeks left

346
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,320
before we got to move out.

347
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,680
We don't have a house yet.

348
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,800
And it's 2021 and the Jacksonville market's crazy.

349
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,600
Everybody's paying 50,000 more than asking price

350
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:50,960
just to get the house.

351
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,280
And so we get this one house, we make a bid,

352
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,600
we lose it to a cash bidder,

353
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,960
so we kind of move along and keep looking.

354
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,560
Well, I think it was like a Wednesday morning,

355
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:06,560
my wife and I are talking

356
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,680
and she's just like, kind of at her wits end.

357
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,320
She's like, we gotta find a house.

358
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,800
We gotta stop being so picky.

359
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,720
We may have to raise our budget.

360
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,440
And I wasn't budgeting on any of that.

361
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,200
So I just stepped on my back porch and I said,

362
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,400
God, don't make us wait any longer.

363
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:25,920
Please reveal our needs.

364
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,200
Please reveal to us the house you already have

365
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:31,200
picked out for us.

366
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,320
And that night at six o'clock,

367
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,120
we got the call that the buyer backed out

368
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,760
and the house that I'm in now was ours.

369
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,040
But when I look at that, I go,

370
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,760
I didn't waver in my faith

371
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,480
because I didn't see any other way for that to happen.

372
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,480
It had to happen that way.

373
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,520
There was one other example, back in 2019,

374
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:58,720
I had some financial goals and I needed a huge increase.

375
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,240
And I started to manifest, started to pray about that.

376
00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:08,320
And I went for a number that I thought

377
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:10,640
they wouldn't go for.

378
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:12,160
I got interviewed.

379
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,680
It was long story short, a job came to me.

380
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,840
I was aggressive with the recruiter.

381
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:19,120
I gave him a number.

382
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:21,280
It was probably 40% more than I was making.

383
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,560
There was no haggling.

384
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:23,360
Boom, done.

385
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,760
I knew that was a one.

386
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:31,760
So again, faith to me, no matter what your tool is,

387
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:32,800
you've got to believe.

388
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:34,320
Amen.

389
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,560
Now we definitely believe that.

390
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,200
I think that the thing that I'm trying to understand

391
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,920
is are we talking about the same thing?

392
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,120
So, you know, atheists and Christians or theists

393
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,520
are constantly fighting against each other.

394
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,320
But if you go to the physics, the world of physics,

395
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,040
the world of physics and the levels of quantum mechanics

396
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,360
all the way down to what we now know as the unified field

397
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,200
that we've been understanding for the last 30 years,

398
00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,520
you've got just pure consciousness.

399
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,360
And that is the voice in the mind of God.

400
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:03,600
And that's what the Buddhists or the Hindus talk about

401
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,840
as the Atman, the self, all being tied to.

402
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:11,520
And at its core, it looks like the yin-yang symbol.

403
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:12,160
Yes, it does.

404
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,000
The vibration of it.

405
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,760
So I think that I used to be a Calvinist.

406
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,760
You know, Joel, I'm a five-point Calvinist.

407
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,880
I used to love Mark Driscoll, going to John Piper,

408
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,520
you know, and I still love Jesus.

409
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,120
You know, I believe the resurrected.

410
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:28,800
You know, I'm still all that, right?

411
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:29,760
So I love that.

412
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,320
But at the same time, I think that he has been trying

413
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,040
to tell us some things that I think we've tried to put in a box.

414
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,440
And I think his love and grace is so great.

415
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,400
As you've heard, obviously, from several Universalists

416
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,880
we've had or complete restoration folks,

417
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,160
that, you know, that's a great hopeful future

418
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,920
that we've got to look forward to.

419
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:48,480
Anyway.

420
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,120
I think that's the value of grace.

421
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:57,120
Like, first, Joel, to your point, the value of manifesting

422
00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:01,120
is to discover who we are, that we are children of God.

423
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:03,920
I think that's the best metaphor that our current bodies

424
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:04,720
can understand.

425
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,720
But at a quantum level, we're all part of one source.

426
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,680
And the conversation we've had is,

427
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,280
in evangelical Christianity, there's

428
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,320
a very clear separation between the two.

429
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,240
And I chose to believe that grace was big enough

430
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,640
for me to explore the idea if it's one.

431
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,040
So about two years now, I have been exploring

432
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,000
that conscious idea of, I am.

433
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,880
Jesus said it, and I'm saying, I am.

434
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,680
And it's the presence of the fullness of what God created in me

435
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,120
without any limitations.

436
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:38,400
I'm not white.

437
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,680
I'm not Jonathan.

438
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,080
I'm not 57 years old.

439
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:43,520
I am.

440
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:51,200
Because Elon Musk said how he was talking about how we program

441
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,000
our brain to think we are the age we are, because that's

442
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,720
what they tell us to do, to count our birthday every year.

443
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:00,640
But I feel like I'm like 25 inside.

444
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,120
So what if my body could catch up to that?

445
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:07,520
So it's this idea of, if we are one, is the manifestation

446
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,440
process simply a reality that this is, as Alan said,

447
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,000
is, as Alan Watts called it, a game?

448
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,440
Because if you're me and I'm you and Rich,

449
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:23,200
we're all the same person, it fundamentally does transform

450
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,400
how we treat each other.

451
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:25,680
Absolutely.

452
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,720
And that is, I think, the idea of the kingdom that we grew up.

453
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,400
Did you grow up an evangelical, Joel?

454
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,200
Yeah, I grew up in North Alabama in the Church of Christ, actually.

455
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:37,760
The Bible?

456
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,200
Okay, a capella.

457
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,840
The Bible Bell, absolutely.

458
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,040
No music, yeah.

459
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,760
Near Nashville, the Christian music capital.

460
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,400
So you guys had music.

461
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:49,040
No, they didn't.

462
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:50,560
Not at Church of Christ.

463
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,080
Well, no, we didn't have any instruments in the building.

464
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,880
And I could go down a whole list of the divisions between

465
00:20:58,880 --> 00:20:59,840
the churches of Christ.

466
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,360
Can you have a kitchen in the building?

467
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:01,920
Can you not?

468
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,560
Women's roles and all those things, you know.

469
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,520
But yeah, no, totally a capella.

470
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,600
Yeah, I can appreciate the four-part harmony.

471
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,320
I grew up singing and really singing and you could actually hear yourself.

472
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:23,440
So that, but no, I go to a church now that has full piece band and all that.

473
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,840
So I've definitely come around on some of that.

474
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:31,520
But yeah, that was life growing up and there was a lot of legalism.

475
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:35,520
And just a lot of dogma.

476
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,920
You know, I think the Church of Christ, it was like we have the right doctrine sort of thing.

477
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:49,600
And yeah, so I went through a lot of that and I felt like I kind of got out away from that in

478
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:56,560
2014 when I moved to North Carolina and I deconstructed my faith down to what my

479
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:02,880
foundational beliefs were, which is basically Jesus and that's pretty much it.

480
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,120
I mean, not that all the other things weren't important.

481
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:08,480
I don't think you need more.

482
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,680
That's the bullshit of theology is you don't need more than Jesus.

483
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,840
You know, it's like when you've gone through all of the religious trauma,

484
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,760
you realize the only thing that you keep when you let it all go is Jesus.

485
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:27,760
Because Jesus is the shining example of what it looks like to love all the time,

486
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,280
to live into grace, to live into the kingdom.

487
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,920
Like that's the kind of life I want.

488
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,160
And I thought about the cost of that.

489
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,400
Like, does it lead to the cross all the time?

490
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:44,000
I don't know, but it's the willingness to see God in the midst of everything.

491
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,960
And I think that's a provocative way to live.

492
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:52,320
So at this point in your life, Joel, what's different between now and say when you were,

493
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,120
you know, in your 20s or 30s with Christianity?

494
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:57,360
Has anything changed?

495
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,440
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

496
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:06,800
I think with that deconstruction that I just mentioned, I really started to get away from

497
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,240
the judgments.

498
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:13,520
You know, I mean, there was a lot of flippant judgment placed and, you know,

499
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:14,640
a lot of harsh judgment.

500
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,480
And I realized, you know, I think at that point, I said, you know what?

501
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,680
I'm not God and I'm not going to put myself in the judge's seat.

502
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,960
There were many people that I knew that they would make open statements that that person's

503
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,000
going to hell because they believe this or they don't believe that.

504
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,480
I said, I'm never going to do that.

505
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,000
That's not my role.

506
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,160
My role is to love and to share the message.

507
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:40,800
And that's it.

508
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,680
What happens to that person?

509
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,720
I don't know, but I'm not the judge.

510
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:53,200
And I think that that started me towards the journey of love, being more loving.

511
00:23:53,200 --> 00:24:03,120
And I really I think the biggest thing that happened to me in my faith is in 2021.

512
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:16,320
I basically I had a situation with alcohol where I started drinking probably in my 30s.

513
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,200
I was kind of a late starter, if you will.

514
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,200
And I did it in New England.

515
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,920
So I lived in the Boston area for 15 years.

516
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,480
And, you know, those crusty New Englanders.

517
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:30,560
The Irishman.

518
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:31,360
Yes, of course.

519
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:41,520
But yeah, the crusty New Englanders, you have to, you know, break the ice over a brew, you know,

520
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,800
and just kind of break down those barriers.

521
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:48,800
So I learned to acquire the taste over time.

522
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,600
I would just, you know, chug it down and then I started to like it.

523
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,720
And all of a sudden, I'm enjoying all the seasonal brews for Sam Adams.

524
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,400
And that led to, you know, hard liquor.

525
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:07,760
And, you know, eventually I was drinking more days than I wasn't.

526
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:13,200
And I had that little hidden mini bar.

527
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,600
And what, Joel, what did you like about it?

528
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,120
Just the buzz.

529
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:22,000
It's urban.

530
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:22,880
It's urban.

531
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:23,920
It's delicious.

532
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:24,720
That's it, man.

533
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:26,080
I did.

534
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,280
Bourbon was my go-to.

535
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,080
I'd have, you know, bourbon and Coke or just straight up bourbon.

536
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,920
But yeah, it was for me, it was just a drink or two.

537
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,120
And, you know, being a New Englander, I was like, oh, I'm going to drink that.

538
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:47,440
And beyond that, you know, that buzz only lasts so long with alcohol.

539
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:48,400
It hits you.

540
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:49,680
You get that feeling.

541
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,240
And then you can keep drinking, but you're not really going to get that feeling again.

542
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,040
You're just going to get drunker and drunker.

543
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:06,080
But so that was basically an ineffective coping skill that I had acquired.

544
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,520
And I was going through a lot of trauma at that time in my life.

545
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:20,160
So in 2005, I had twin girls that were born three months early and they had a lot of complications.

546
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:27,200
So, you know, one of my daughters, she's had 16 brain surgeries.

547
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:28,960
Oh my goodness.

548
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,120
Yeah, she was born with hydrocephalus.

549
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:38,000
And so she's got two BP shots and now she has an LP shot in her spine.

550
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,080
And fortunately, since 2014, she hasn't had to have any more surgeries related to that.

551
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,640
But, you know, for the first couple of years of their life, it was like a surgery every couple months

552
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,720
because something would go wrong with the shot, infection, you name it.

553
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,280
I was, you know, I look at my life growing up, it was like leave it to beaver.

554
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,120
And, you know, there was no trauma.

555
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,720
And so that was my first real bout with trauma.

556
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:05,280
And I didn't know how to handle it very well.

557
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,920
And, you know, my wife and I handle it very differently.

558
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:14,240
I was more the plastic smile and I got to keep positive because that's kind of who I am.

559
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:23,360
And, you know, but it wasn't great how we were clashing in those times.

560
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:28,640
And I think alcohol for me was an escape and became an escape.

561
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,400
And so fast forward to 2021, I had a trauma.

562
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:39,520
I had an afternoon where I was drinking early.

563
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,920
It was NFL Sunday and I was spray painting outside.

564
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,360
All right, that's not a good combination.

565
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,720
Spray painting, inhaling those fumes and drinking.

566
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,440
And by the afternoon, I was blacking out.

567
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,200
And that had never happened to me before.

568
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,320
And I didn't know what was going on.

569
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:04,000
And basically I had I only have bits and pieces of that.

570
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:10,640
I woke up in the middle of the night and I realized, you know, I didn't know what all had happened.

571
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,640
And that scared me.

572
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:19,040
It was just a moment for me that I decided I was done.

573
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,400
You know, drinking wasn't going to be part of my life anymore.

574
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,400
I called some buddies.

575
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,960
I have a really good friend in Plainville, Mass, Michael Pettit.

576
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,520
He directed me to AA, which was virtual at that time post pandemic.

577
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:40,960
And I basically did that for a couple months and I got clear of alcohol.

578
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:46,160
And the reason I share that story is because that started a journey for me of healing.

579
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,520
Because I was again, ineffective coping skill.

580
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,520
I was masking all the pain.

581
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:57,040
I was just doing what I needed to do to get through the day, take care of my family.

582
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,080
But I was hurting.

583
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:06,480
And I think through the journey, you know, I've been sober almost three years now.

584
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,480
I've learned to give permission to love myself.

585
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,600
I was taking care of everybody else.

586
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:14,640
Nice.

587
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:15,840
Yeah.

588
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,320
And, you know, it's funny.

589
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:23,600
Like when you grow up in the church and you know, you read the greatest commands.

590
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:28,080
Yeah, we know that scripture and the second one is of equal importance.

591
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,080
Love your neighbor as yourself.

592
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,080
As yourself.

593
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,080
But people don't focus on the as yourself part.

594
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,080
Nope.

595
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,080
But what's the assumption there?

596
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,560
The assumption is you're loving yourself and you're loving yourself the way God loves you.

597
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,560
Right.

598
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,800
And but no, in the church, we focused on deny yourself.

599
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,800
Think of others better than yourself.

600
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,680
And so that it's almost conflicting in our minds.

601
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,760
But that's I really dissected that scripture and I said, you know what?

602
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,440
I can't just the way that hurt people hurt people.

603
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,840
Loved people love people.

604
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,280
And you have to love yourself before you can love other people.

605
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,800
And so it's been a great journey of learning how to love myself to give myself.

606
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,520
I think the different outlets that I need.

607
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:32,720
I, you know, I could go on a little bit more, but I think, you know, one of the beautiful things about it, too, for me was I worked on forgiveness.

608
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:39,760
You know, I think there was some hurt where, you know, a best friend was no longer a best friend.

609
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,960
But in my mind, he still had the label of best friend.

610
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,960
And I was holding on to some hurt.

611
00:30:44,960 --> 00:31:00,080
So, you know, a thought came to me, hey, just write a letter, just write a letter to that person, not to send it to him, but to process what you're feeling and to kind of close the chapter.

612
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,800
And I did. And by the time I was done with the letter, I had tears streaming down my cheeks.

613
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,720
And I was able to close the door on that.

614
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,560
And now if I see that person again, I don't have to cringe.

615
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,800
I don't have to look the other way and walk the other way.

616
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:22,880
You know, I can treat them as, you know, another another person that that I knew as a friend years ago.

617
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,640
But yeah, there's a lot of a lot of healing.

618
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:37,360
And I'm really appreciative of the journey, just going back to what you're saying, Jonathan, loving myself has been has been very freeing.

619
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,760
And it's actually I've healed.

620
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,840
I feel so much better, so much more healthy.

621
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:44,160
And it's been great.

622
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:55,760
Do you think that I believe this is the case now, but do you think think that alcohol itself and the glory we give it is its own matrix and an element of the healing that you're experiencing?

623
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,840
It's its own matrix and it's just a complete lie.

624
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,200
And how would you suggest we help more people understand how to break through?

625
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,680
Yeah, I think it is it is glorified on TV.

626
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:18,480
Absolutely. I mean, you look at all the movies, soap operas, everywhere you look, there's a drink and the advertising to make it look great.

627
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,440
And, you know, what was essential during the pandemic?

628
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,640
It was it was grocery stores and the liquor stores.

629
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,040
Right. They were considered essential.

630
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,360
And it is interesting.

631
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,640
I think that's one of the things I'm contemplating.

632
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:35,840
I don't know the answer.

633
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:44,960
But when I think about what's behind all the lies and the deceptions, I wonder, you know, that who is that?

634
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:51,280
You know, is that a group of people that are the puppet masters for even our government?

635
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:56,880
And the red and blue are made to look different, but they're really a uniparty working together.

636
00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,680
And they're all their strength.

637
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,240
Absolutely. No, you've nailed it.

638
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:03,280
This is the yeah.

639
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:08,240
If you follow the money, it's Black Rock State Street.

640
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:15,760
Because that's a fact is they control in the American system most of the capital.

641
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:17,520
And it's all our money.

642
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:18,400
That's the joke of it.

643
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:19,520
Yeah.

644
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,960
Yeah, you know, and they control the media companies and the food companies.

645
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,600
The food companies make us sick and the media companies make us fat by sitting on the couch

646
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:28,640
and being anesthetized.

647
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,800
There's value in food and value in entertainment.

648
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,560
Like, I love alcohol.

649
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:42,400
But what I've tried to spend the last couple of years of my life is in a mature response to it,

650
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,880
because I was never an alcoholic.

651
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,000
Mine was always drugs.

652
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,240
That was my coping mechanism.

653
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,320
Once I understood it, alcohol could be what it was, which is an enjoyable thing.

654
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:58,320
But when I'm getting hammered all the time, it's usually an indicator of a deeper issue.

655
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:06,160
Yeah. And the really cool thing for me is I go to corporate dinners there at the bar for an hour.

656
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,640
It would be harder for me to take a drink than it is for me not to take a drink.

657
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,200
And I don't look down on anybody for drinking.

658
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:16,960
Just for me, it's been a great choice.

659
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,240
And I'm going to stick with what works.

660
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:24,640
And that's the beauty is that's what everybody should support each other's mental choice.

661
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:26,640
And it has grown, right?

662
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,360
Dry January has become more of a thing.

663
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,760
I think alcohol is the number one coping mechanism.

664
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:34,080
It is.

665
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,760
There's nothing cheaper and more affordable.

666
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:38,720
And more dangerous, though.

667
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,120
Do you listen to Huberman at all, Joel?

668
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,440
Yeah, I have listened to him a few times.

669
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,440
He's got a two and a half hours just dedicated to alcohol and there's just nothing positive about it.

670
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:55,120
And so for me, I'm just similar with Jonathan has I've been trying to do five days off and like a

671
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,560
couple on here and there.

672
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,920
And at first it was seemingly like an insurmountable task.

673
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:02,800
But when you actually tell yourself, wow, I feel better.

674
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:03,520
I'm sleeping better.

675
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:04,960
My shoulder doesn't hurt anymore.

676
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,640
You know, it's all inflammation.

677
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:12,800
You know that the metastasis, it goes from ethyl alcohol to acetyl aldehyde to acetate.

678
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,000
And what's your poor liver is going through and talk about longevity.

679
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:21,040
So we should have this conversation again, because it's really the first time in 62 episodes that

680
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,440
we've really brought up kind of the nature of alcohol and how pervasive it could be.

681
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,680
And I think we should dedicate some time to it because it is truly breaking free.

682
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:30,480
There is a freedom.

683
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,240
You realize the lie.

684
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,360
You say, why did I do this to myself?

685
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,320
I know what it was like.

686
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:36,640
Right.

687
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,400
And so Tucker talks about this.

688
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,000
He's got this in a conversation with the guy who used to be a seal.

689
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,000
And I think we need to have conversations about it.

690
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,320
I'm thankful for your angle.

691
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,840
It's a really good perspective.

692
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,040
Yeah, I saw that one.

693
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:54,560
And also Dr. Robert Morris, I've been diving into his YouTube channel and loved your.

694
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,720
Yeah, but he basically describes inflammation as systemic acidosis.

695
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,520
You know, just like, you know, when I looked at one of his videos, I was just blown away about,

696
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:11,360
you know, cells need nourishment from the blood and then they release waste in the form of acid.

697
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,880
And the lymphatic system, it's its job to remove that.

698
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,600
When your lymphatic system backed up, that affects, of course, your kidneys and your adrenals,

699
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:24,480
you get systemic acidosis, which is acid in the body.

700
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,560
And that's what we call inflammation.

701
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,400
And if untreated, if you don't change that state and it gets worse and worse,

702
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,840
that leads to intracellular acidosis, which we know is cancer.

703
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:41,120
And so it's amazing to to kind of learn some of the things that you don't learn in mainstream

704
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:46,560
about the basics of body chemistry and how things work.

705
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,240
I've been doing based on him.

706
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:52,880
I've been doing a lot of great fasts where I take a bowl of grace with some lemon juice.

707
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,040
I've eaten that for just three days and I felt great afterwards.

708
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,240
I'm going to try to do it longer.

709
00:36:58,880 --> 00:36:59,920
Do you do that every meal?

710
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:02,320
No, but I do.

711
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,560
I have been eating grapes just as I'm sorry, fast.

712
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,760
Is it are you doing the grape one time a day or are you just doing that over?

713
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,880
If I do a fast, it's I can eat as many grapes as I want throughout the day.

714
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,400
Love it. Yeah.

715
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:24,400
Yeah. I think there's something also that Dr. Morris brought up that I've really started to

716
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,520
appreciate, and it's the nature of the fruit.

717
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,760
Actual life and what it does to us.

718
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,200
It does make us more spiritual.

719
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,800
There is something that connects us to that fasting, of course.

720
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,960
I mean, Jesus talks about prayer and fasting, but I'm going to actually do an ayahuasca

721
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,200
journey, Joel, in a couple of weeks.

722
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,680
And one of the things they want you to not do is eat fried food, alcohol, cannabis,

723
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:46,160
anything.

724
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,640
Don't expose yourself to social media and violence.

725
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:53,040
Don't even ejaculate, but eat plenty of fresh fruit because that'll get you ready for a

726
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,120
mind that is ready for that.

727
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,640
And the more we do that, that first thing Dr. Morris does, he gets up and has those

728
00:37:58,640 --> 00:37:59,440
berries in the morning.

729
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:04,080
And I'm thankful that keto and these paleo diets have berries as part of it because that's

730
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,640
what we lived on for hundreds and thousands of years.

731
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,520
And we've got to lean into that, right?

732
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,440
And I think you're onto something.

733
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:11,920
Yeah.

734
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,440
Yeah, absolutely.

735
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:19,520
I think there's so many alternative forms of information in regards to health that I've

736
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,760
tuned into as a part of this journey.

737
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,200
There's a guy named Nathan Crane.

738
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,320
He's right here in Jacksonville, too.

739
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,880
He survived stage four cancer naturally.

740
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,880
He's written a book on it.

741
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,680
You guys are probably familiar with Dr. Jack Cruz.

742
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,680
Yeah, we had him on.

743
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:40,480
Yeah, you guys did.

744
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:41,280
That's right.

745
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,080
That's right.

746
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,480
Yeah, because I listened to him on Huberman.

747
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,920
Just amazing.

748
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,560
And I continue to listen to other podcasts.

749
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,360
Amazing what he's discovering about light and how the body harnesses light.

750
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:58,880
And even to the point where there's pathways into the brain where light is all the way

751
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:04,880
up in the brain, which I don't even think medically is documented anywhere other than

752
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,080
his research.

753
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:07,680
So I'm jealous for you, though.

754
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,640
You've got that dawn in the sun right there.

755
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:15,360
You've got that melanin getting fired up by the ATPs there, the sunlight.

756
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,720
And if you get up early enough, you're right there.

757
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,720
And you can actually stare right at the sun in the first 35, 45 minutes because there's

758
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:28,720
no UAV and UVA, UVB radiation.

759
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:31,360
And so Laird Hamilton, I just literally saw him on Instagram.

760
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,320
He does it all the time.

761
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,680
And then once you get past that time, you want to be in the peripheral.

762
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,840
But it can actually literally when you're grounding and you're getting it done, tell

763
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,280
me that you can't feel just working through it.

764
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:49,280
Yeah, you're really pushing me to go to the beach more and sit at those sunrises.

765
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:50,320
I got to do that more.

766
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:51,920
How far away are you from the beach?

767
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:52,960
I'm 20 minutes.

768
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,960
OK.

769
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,080
Yeah.

770
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,040
Well, I'm in the West.

771
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:02,800
So when I get to see a sunset at the beach, but in the morning, because I've got some

772
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,520
buildings and stuff around me, it's already up a little bit.

773
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,200
So I've got to be careful on how I do that.

774
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:08,560
But give it a try.

775
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:09,520
Make it make.

776
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,560
Give yourself a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little

777
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:13,600
bit of a challenge.

778
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,360
Give yourself a little challenge to get out there three times a week and see if it doesn't

779
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:18,560
make a difference for you.

780
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:19,600
OK.

781
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:20,560
Yeah.

782
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,360
Hey, guys, I have a screaming child downstairs.

783
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:24,400
She's doing well.

784
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,440
She's actually starting her second year in college.

785
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:28,480
Amazing.

786
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,040
Yeah.

787
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,760
They stand relatively close to home in Florida.

788
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,280
Yeah.

789
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:39,520
My daughter Stephanie, she's going to college at Southeast University in Lakeland, so three

790
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:40,080
hours away.

791
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:40,720
Perfect.

792
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:42,000
And she's loving it.

793
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,760
Her daughter has autism.

794
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:48,880
She was diagnosed basically right before her second birthday.

795
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:55,760
And so, yeah, she's at home with us and we'll take care of her as long as we're alive.

796
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,240
And I've got to make sure I have a nice trust set up for her so she can be taken care of

797
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:01,680
when we're gone.

798
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,000
But she's amazing.

799
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,280
She makes us laugh every single day.

800
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:14,480
Joel, you talked about sort of that first early periods.

801
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,880
Looking back at yourself, how did you make it through?

802
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:29,120
Man, I think I just held on to hope that one day it would change.

803
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:34,400
And I knew I had to be strong for my family, especially for my kids.

804
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:35,440
I love being a dad.

805
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,080
I love just pouring into my kids.

806
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,840
I'm a big kid at art, so I mean, most of us are.

807
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:48,560
So we had, I think, one house, we had a trampoline in the basement and it was one of those shorter

808
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,920
ones and just getting in there with the kids and we had a rope swing that they could swing

809
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:54,400
around.

810
00:41:54,400 --> 00:42:01,360
So I think life always revolved around the kids and doing different things.

811
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:10,880
Just, I tell you what, it was very hard the early years and just getting to go home to

812
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:17,440
Alabama to see my family and spending time with them, like that was just such a recharge

813
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:17,840
for me.

814
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:25,120
In many ways, we were on an island when the kids were early on and going through all the

815
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:26,240
surgeries and whatnot.

816
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,280
So that was difficult.

817
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:35,120
I think you just, like with special needs, it's its own community.

818
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:42,240
And I think you just connect with the people who are in the similar situations and you

819
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:43,200
learn from each other.

820
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,480
You just kind of share.

821
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,480
Like we made friends with a family.

822
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,920
We would do every trick or treat.

823
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,720
We would do pizza at their house and go trick or treating.

824
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:59,200
There's a funny story there because my daughter with autism, she was born in the

825
00:42:59,200 --> 00:42:59,600
country.

826
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,840
She just decides it's time to trick or treat, grabs her bucket and heads out the door.

827
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,360
We're just eating our pizza.

828
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,520
We look around, where's she at?

829
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:12,240
She was two doors down and luckily a neighbor had her sitting with.

830
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:18,160
So it's just, I think, I don't know how I made it through.

831
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,360
I think faith had something to do with it, although I struggled in my faith.

832
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:23,440
I'm like, God, where are you?

833
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:24,960
Things like that.

834
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,400
But I just held on.

835
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,160
Did you make peace?

836
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:34,320
Because it sounded like you were getting to the idea that you had sort of made peace

837
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,800
with that trauma and kind of going through all that.

838
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:38,880
Did you make peace with it?

839
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,760
Yeah, I think I have made peace with it.

840
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:51,600
I think that I see the beauty in that journey and what it did for me to catapult me into

841
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:57,600
growing as a man, as just being stronger.

842
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:06,880
I don't think I was, I think based on my childhood, I was a happy-go-lucky kid and young man.

843
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,400
I didn't have much of a backbone.

844
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,640
I really cut my teeth in project management at one of my first jobs, which was Harvard

845
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:15,280
Business School.

846
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,640
And I ended up managing all of the vendors, AB vendors on the campus.

847
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:29,200
And that taught me to be a little bit gritty that, hey, it's okay to be firm and hold vendors

848
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:30,720
accountable to deadlines.

849
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:33,360
And you don't have to be Mr. Nice Guy all the time.

850
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:40,960
There were a lot of things that I appreciate about the journey that make me who I am today.

851
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,480
And looking back, I can go, all those things happen for a reason.

852
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,880
They all helped me.

853
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:53,440
And I also see the beauty in all of what we went through because now we can look back at it.

854
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:59,600
My daughter can actually look at all the surgeries she went through and she can smile.

855
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,800
And she can look at it and go, hey, I never thought I'd use my right arm because of the

856
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,320
cerebral palsy, but here I am strengthening it in PT.

857
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:13,680
And now I can do 10 push-ups or I can lift this dumbbell.

858
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,200
I can turn my wrists.

859
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:22,240
There's just, I guess all that to say there's so much appreciation for, you can't see it

860
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:23,280
when you're going through it.

861
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,400
But when you look back, wow, that really helped me grow.

862
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:35,040
That's funny because in the Hindu way, they talk about you focus on your Dharma, which

863
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:35,760
is the here and the now.

864
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,920
You don't actually have to put expectations out there.

865
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,840
If you do, what are you doing now?

866
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:42,400
There's no attacks.

867
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,000
Exactly.

868
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,440
But this is what Jesus says, seek first the kingdom and his righteousness that all these

869
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:48,640
things will come to you.

870
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,400
So in that way, it's the same.

871
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,080
But one of the things I've been noticing about this conversation, Joel, is that you've done

872
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:59,680
some deep work, meaning like the way you're reacting and responding and where you've put

873
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:05,600
your foot forward, you've had some great experiences and or have you done some additional

874
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,760
practices besides the prayer and staying close with your church community and hunkering down

875
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,720
through your journey?

876
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:15,920
I mean, it seems like you've got some other things because you've come across as a very

877
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,880
kind of wise in the world and been through ups and downs and you're speaking a lot of

878
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:21,280
volume.

879
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:26,080
So is there anything else you're doing to kind of keep you to where you are now?

880
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,720
Like I call it a spiritual discipline, if you would.

881
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:36,800
Well, I think I'm contemplating meditation, but I haven't done a lot of meditation.

882
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:42,080
I've gone in spurts, but I haven't figured out a routine or meditation.

883
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,880
Not doing the cold plunge just like you read, although I have a buddy who's doing them and

884
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,440
I'm considering adding that in at some point.

885
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:58,400
I think what I do best is in terms of a routine and a ritual is I journal.

886
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:06,080
If there's a thought in my head, something that comes to me, if I can write it down on paper

887
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,800
or like I actually, I do everything on keyboard.

888
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,720
I'm an Evernote guy.

889
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:13,200
My whole life is an Evernote.

890
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:21,520
But if I can write it down, I'll end up with a page once I start and I can get it all out.

891
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,600
And so it's not bouncing around in here.

892
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,880
I think that's one of the things that is always helpful for me.

893
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:33,760
And I might go days on end where I don't do it, but when I do, it really is, it's just a great

894
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,880
way to get it out, process it.

895
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:44,560
Other than that, prayer has been something that has helped me.

896
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,560
I threw away the ritual prayers.

897
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,560
And when I talk to God, it's just a running conversation.

898
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:58,160
It's not a Holy Father, blessed thee and all that.

899
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,000
It's not that that's bad, but I just said, you know what?

900
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,400
Whatever's on my mind, on my heart, I'm just going to, if I'm happy, I'm going to talk about

901
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:07,280
what I'm happy about.

902
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,160
If I'm pissed off, I'm going to talk about that.

903
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:17,040
And that was actually very freeing and helped me since I started that type of prayer.

904
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:21,360
That's awesome.

905
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,440
Is that on your side?

906
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:26,080
No, it's not.

907
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:28,000
No, I think it's on mine.

908
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:28,500
Okay.

909
00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:33,780
We were trying to figure that was still the grandchild there.

910
00:48:33,780 --> 00:48:36,500
Could you hear my grandson?

911
00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:37,220
I didn't actually.

912
00:48:37,220 --> 00:48:38,580
No, we did not.

913
00:48:39,620 --> 00:48:44,740
Apple has good noise canceling, but yeah, he was screaming for like three minutes.

914
00:48:45,780 --> 00:48:49,380
I had it on, I'll erase all this.

915
00:48:51,300 --> 00:48:54,740
So, hey, real quick on that note, Rich, that was a great question.

916
00:48:54,740 --> 00:48:59,700
I mean, you guys, because of your background, do you guys still pray?

917
00:49:00,580 --> 00:49:05,060
I mean, what do you guys do in terms of your rituals, I guess?

918
00:49:05,860 --> 00:49:14,340
Yeah, in terms of me, I've memorized Psalm 138 in the Message Bible, which is, gosh, his name.

919
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:15,700
It begins with an E.

920
00:49:15,700 --> 00:49:16,820
He wrote the message.

921
00:49:16,820 --> 00:49:17,460
He was a bit real.

922
00:49:17,460 --> 00:49:18,260
I love the message.

923
00:49:18,260 --> 00:49:18,760
Yeah.

924
00:49:19,460 --> 00:49:23,940
So, I memorized that and I love it so much because it's about gratitude.

925
00:49:23,940 --> 00:49:27,780
It's about thanking him for everything and about the angels sing his praise and how the

926
00:49:27,780 --> 00:49:30,660
kings sing his praise and how he gets you out of trouble.

927
00:49:34,340 --> 00:49:37,620
When I get in the bad stuff, keep me alive in the angry turmoil.

928
00:49:37,620 --> 00:49:40,020
With one hand, slay my enemies, with the other, rescue me.

929
00:49:41,540 --> 00:49:43,940
Keep running for me because your love is eternal, right?

930
00:49:43,940 --> 00:49:45,620
Don't give up on me now, those kinds of things.

931
00:49:47,940 --> 00:49:51,460
It's definitely one of those kind of intercessional or Psalms, like I'm in a bad place.

932
00:49:51,460 --> 00:49:51,940
Please help me.

933
00:49:51,940 --> 00:49:55,700
So, I've been through ups and downs through sales, tech sales in the last four or five years.

934
00:49:55,700 --> 00:49:56,820
It's been a bloody mess.

935
00:49:57,380 --> 00:49:58,660
So, I say that.

936
00:49:58,660 --> 00:50:02,180
I say a little bit of prayer or J-bez every now and then and then I just free flow it.

937
00:50:02,180 --> 00:50:02,900
I love Jesus.

938
00:50:02,900 --> 00:50:03,780
I pray to him.

939
00:50:03,780 --> 00:50:05,380
But at the same time, I meditate, right?

940
00:50:05,380 --> 00:50:09,860
I try to meditate twice a day with transcendental meditation and it is a guy who's a Hindu.

941
00:50:09,860 --> 00:50:11,460
It's a Vedic tradition.

942
00:50:11,460 --> 00:50:15,780
But I found that it's actually changed my heart and my wife and daughters notice like,

943
00:50:15,780 --> 00:50:16,660
Rich, you've changed.

944
00:50:16,660 --> 00:50:17,700
You know, what's going on there?

945
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:19,620
And that's where I've been having to work.

946
00:50:19,620 --> 00:50:21,700
Jonathan is such a great empath.

947
00:50:21,700 --> 00:50:26,180
He's got a great heart and I've lived up here in this world and after two messages from

948
00:50:26,180 --> 00:50:30,660
people called a word of knowledge from a gal going to Bethel up in Reading and one other

949
00:50:30,660 --> 00:50:34,500
gal who was in our post construction put, you know, deconstruction group said,

950
00:50:35,300 --> 00:50:37,860
if you change your heart, you'll change the world, Guli.

951
00:50:37,860 --> 00:50:42,420
So, those are things that I'm really trying to get into and how can I tap into that more

952
00:50:42,420 --> 00:50:42,920
and more, right?

953
00:50:44,820 --> 00:50:45,060
Yeah.

954
00:50:45,060 --> 00:50:52,740
And I've my concept of prayer has changed because I'm changing my reference point that

955
00:50:52,740 --> 00:50:56,180
the person I'm speaking to is part of who I'm connected to.

956
00:50:56,740 --> 00:51:06,580
They're distinctly separate still as constructs, but I'm trying to get my body used to that

957
00:51:06,580 --> 00:51:12,500
sense of permanent connection that's never been gone because my operating procedure always

958
00:51:12,500 --> 00:51:16,500
started from I was separated. That's why I think this matters.

959
00:51:17,380 --> 00:51:21,220
And this is what Jesus was doing. Jesus was, I am.

960
00:51:21,220 --> 00:51:24,180
And so, I'm changing the construct of that of when I say,

961
00:51:26,340 --> 00:51:36,580
what that the new part of prayer is me getting out of my head because I was just like rich for the

962
00:51:36,580 --> 00:51:42,740
most of my life, although I think I had a nurturing mom who helped me become an empath.

963
00:51:42,740 --> 00:51:48,980
But what I'm realizing now is instead of thinking about it all the time, I'm learning to feel it

964
00:51:50,740 --> 00:51:53,540
instead of thinking because your body can only do one at a time.

965
00:51:54,900 --> 00:52:05,460
And when I drop into my body, I have the most insanely beautiful thoughts about the kingdom.

966
00:52:05,460 --> 00:52:10,820
And I think that's resonance or coherence when you connect the two because I think that's what

967
00:52:11,460 --> 00:52:15,300
the head and the heart connected is what Jesus was talking about a Christ consciousness

968
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:19,700
because you can hear God, you can feel God.

969
00:52:21,300 --> 00:52:25,940
Practice love, it becomes a felt experience of God because God is love.

970
00:52:25,940 --> 00:52:30,980
That's the dialogue I'm having because I'm always trying to construct it, but I'm now realizing

971
00:52:30,980 --> 00:52:34,580
feeling is the knowledge part because when you feel like when you get a baseball game and your

972
00:52:34,580 --> 00:52:40,100
team wins, you feel it and you remember forever. That's instant knowledge. That's what I'm learning.

973
00:52:40,100 --> 00:52:46,180
I'm reading the I'm reading going through a course in miracles and they're talking about the knowledge

974
00:52:46,180 --> 00:52:54,580
of God is felt. And so, I'm running on my walks to in prayer to feel the experience and it's pretty

975
00:52:54,580 --> 00:53:00,900
dynamic. So, it has to be felt because it's a part of the experience.

976
00:53:00,900 --> 00:53:05,060
Seeing is not believing, right? It's like they've seen miracles, but they didn't believe because

977
00:53:05,060 --> 00:53:08,980
their heart didn't feel it, right? And that's when you've experienced that you can't get it

978
00:53:08,980 --> 00:53:14,260
taken away from you. And that's also why we've talked about the nature of psychedelics, Joel,

979
00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:19,060
you know, and in Johns Hopkins for 25 years. And you've got people who have been one in touch with

980
00:53:19,060 --> 00:53:23,860
the cosmos. Now, here's the thing. I think that God has given us a mind that once we get to that

981
00:53:23,860 --> 00:53:27,620
level and that oneness with him, we don't need all these other things, right? We don't need pop,

982
00:53:27,620 --> 00:53:32,820
we don't need alcohol, we don't need psychedelics because that opening is there. And if you've

983
00:53:32,820 --> 00:53:37,620
tapped in enough, I mean, look at all the ancient mystics, you know, these guys didn't have, well,

984
00:53:37,620 --> 00:53:42,580
John might've had some ergot in his wheat in his rye when he wrote the book of Revelation.

985
00:53:42,580 --> 00:53:46,340
Let me give you a different thought because one of the things that I've been thinking about is

986
00:53:47,380 --> 00:53:54,500
the concept of the Trinity is father, son, Holy Spirit. I think the father is the prefrontal

987
00:53:54,500 --> 00:54:01,300
cortex. The son is the amygdala and because that's the experience we're having here on earth. And

988
00:54:01,300 --> 00:54:06,260
your emotions are the spirit because those are the animating factors of life. When you feel

989
00:54:06,260 --> 00:54:12,820
something deeply, you're empowered because if there's no disconnection between me and God,

990
00:54:15,220 --> 00:54:22,180
how do we put the Trinity in relationship to that in the human experience? And that's my initial

991
00:54:22,180 --> 00:54:29,300
idea that I'm coming up with is that if we are part of source, what changes and it's, okay,

992
00:54:29,300 --> 00:54:34,340
I have this executive function, this really good thinking part, and then I have this human part,

993
00:54:34,340 --> 00:54:39,220
and then I have this animating part, it just seemed to fit a little bit. So I'm changing

994
00:54:39,220 --> 00:54:47,620
my dialogue on prayer because I'm realizing I can do anything in grace and I am empowered to do

995
00:54:47,620 --> 00:54:55,460
anything in love. And the more that I practice love in grace, the more I experience God as a felt

996
00:54:55,460 --> 00:55:00,980
sense, not just an intellectual sense. Because I think theology is this logic of God, but love is

997
00:55:00,980 --> 00:55:07,940
the experience of God. That's why it's always more powerful. Yeah. Yeah. And grace is something I

998
00:55:07,940 --> 00:55:16,020
didn't understand early on. Of course, growing up legalistic, now what I love about where I'm at now

999
00:55:16,020 --> 00:55:22,180
is I always feel like I'm in God's grace. Like I never beat myself up anymore. And I used to beat

1000
00:55:22,180 --> 00:55:29,700
myself up all the time. And it felt like I had to earn my way into God's good graces. But I love

1001
00:55:29,700 --> 00:55:37,700
that. And Rich, when you mentioned the Psalm, it reminded me, I do say the prayer of serenity very

1002
00:55:37,700 --> 00:55:44,740
often. And I have a coin that I found that has the prayer on there. You can order it on Amazon.

1003
00:55:44,740 --> 00:55:50,900
But I love just that prayer. It says, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

1004
00:55:51,780 --> 00:55:57,700
the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. And of course,

1005
00:55:57,700 --> 00:56:03,460
it goes on to say a lot more than that. But just starting my prayers with that, which is what I

1006
00:56:03,460 --> 00:56:11,460
normally would do, it's just very free. John, can I just say I've met some of the coolest people

1007
00:56:11,460 --> 00:56:16,500
I've ever met in my life at an AA meeting. My brother's got 10 years on him and my sister just

1008
00:56:16,500 --> 00:56:20,980
got five. And when I just heard these people, we were allowed to be there because it was a

1009
00:56:20,980 --> 00:56:24,660
celebratory thing. Normally, it's kind of, you know, confidential, but I'm just hearing these

1010
00:56:24,660 --> 00:56:29,940
conversations going on. It's like, these people are wise. They are a community. This is love. This

1011
00:56:29,940 --> 00:56:35,620
is it. And again, AA doesn't necessarily require belief in Jesus, just a higher power, which again,

1012
00:56:35,620 --> 00:56:41,860
I think if it's doing these things, it's powerful. One of the things that we talked about with some

1013
00:56:41,860 --> 00:56:46,180
other friends at AA though, that I'm still trying to get my head around is if you've been clean and

1014
00:56:46,180 --> 00:56:50,500
sober for 35 years, you shouldn't be able to say, you shouldn't have to say, I'm an alcoholic

1015
00:56:50,500 --> 00:56:55,300
anymore. I think John, we might've talked about that. It's like, I haven't had a drink for 35

1016
00:56:55,300 --> 00:57:00,100
years. I don't think I'm an alcoholic anymore. Right. And yet it's there. Right. And it's,

1017
00:57:00,100 --> 00:57:06,260
well, here's the why is we don't want to define our identity and something we're not. Because

1018
00:57:06,260 --> 00:57:12,420
once you do, you're attracted to it. Right. That's the hard part of that. I don't consider myself an

1019
00:57:12,420 --> 00:57:16,820
alcoholic. I went to rehab, but I don't consider myself an alcoholic or a drug addict because

1020
00:57:16,820 --> 00:57:24,740
that's not who I am. I'm not a not, I am something. And I think it's powerful the way you shifted it

1021
00:57:24,740 --> 00:57:32,420
to how do we find the best out of something which puts us in right relationship to it? Because the

1022
00:57:32,420 --> 00:57:38,980
reality at Ben Affleck, who's a famous alcoholic said, suffering, which is the usual outcome of

1023
00:57:38,980 --> 00:57:47,060
alcoholism, always is the best medicine. Always. Because it forces us to have to deal with it.

1024
00:57:47,860 --> 00:57:54,260
You know, we have to, you get to a point where it's like, okay, I can't let this trajectory

1025
00:57:54,260 --> 00:57:58,260
keep going. I have to deal with it. Cause at some point it feels like death. It really does.

1026
00:57:59,220 --> 00:58:05,540
You know? Oh, yeah. That's the yet to face reality. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the,

1027
00:58:06,980 --> 00:58:12,580
the suffering part is the part where that's the alchemy. That's what Sean has always talked about

1028
00:58:12,580 --> 00:58:21,460
is by transforming the alchemy of it, we change our relationship to it. I'm no longer suffering

1029
00:58:21,460 --> 00:58:26,820
from it. It's part of my story. And that's what happened to you, Joel, is that you took something

1030
00:58:26,820 --> 00:58:35,460
that hurt and made it real. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So Joel, I have a question for you. You've,

1031
00:58:35,460 --> 00:58:38,820
you've, you've done a lot of research. You've listened to a lot of podcasts. You're pretty

1032
00:58:40,260 --> 00:58:45,780
a lot of depth out there. What are some of the topics or concepts or ideas out there that you've

1033
00:58:45,780 --> 00:58:51,940
seen that you think would be another great idea for us to dig into on a future podcast?

1034
00:58:51,940 --> 00:58:55,620
Anything that comes to mind like, man, these guys would be great with this.

1035
00:58:56,420 --> 00:59:05,460
Give us an idea if you could. I mean, I think like mirror work is something I'm contemplating.

1036
00:59:05,460 --> 00:59:12,260
I know that that was talked about by what was it? Cleaver? I think so.

1037
00:59:12,260 --> 00:59:14,740
No, he's talking about shadow work. Yes.

1038
00:59:14,740 --> 00:59:16,260
Yeah, he's talking about shadow work.

1039
00:59:16,260 --> 00:59:17,620
Young stuff. Yeah.

1040
00:59:17,620 --> 00:59:21,780
Yeah, but mirror work, I don't know if you guys have heard of that.

1041
00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:22,420
I've never heard of that. It's interesting.

1042
00:59:22,420 --> 00:59:29,380
No. Yeah. And I'm still learning about it, but it's the idea that, you know,

1043
00:59:30,180 --> 00:59:37,700
whenever you're the whatever's in your environment is like a mirror. And you're reflecting. And I

1044
00:59:37,700 --> 00:59:44,260
think someone I read an article recently said, if you want to change the reflection in the mirror,

1045
00:59:45,140 --> 00:59:51,860
you don't reach out to the mirror and try to change that frown to a smile. You have to change

1046
00:59:52,820 --> 00:59:58,900
you. You have to change from inside of you. And then that smile will be reflected back to you.

1047
01:00:00,100 --> 01:00:07,220
You have to do the work, basically. And basically, the whole idea of whatever you see in front of you

1048
01:00:07,220 --> 01:00:13,540
is a mirror of what's going on inside of you. And so I think just really, it's just really an

1049
01:00:13,540 --> 01:00:19,220
interesting topic that I would love to hear more about and how people are approaching that.

1050
01:00:19,860 --> 01:00:25,140
The idea seems obvious. I'm surprised nobody's ever invented it. But I think people are in a

1051
01:00:25,140 --> 01:00:28,740
very creative mode right now, especially around healing. And I think it's powerful because

1052
01:00:28,740 --> 01:00:40,260
I don't think most men were open to doing work. I think there is an emergence of men who are willing.

1053
01:00:40,260 --> 01:00:46,260
Women have always been able to do mental health or spiritual work. Men are really beginning to sort

1054
01:00:46,260 --> 01:00:51,860
of open up to those possibilities a lot more. And I think and I'm surprised nobody's ever done

1055
01:00:51,860 --> 01:00:59,140
mirror work because it's a great reflector. Like you said, it's whatever we project is what is our

1056
01:00:59,140 --> 01:01:05,460
life is trying to communicate to us. And that has been one of my greatest lessons is whatever I see

1057
01:01:05,460 --> 01:01:13,460
is what I'm supposed to deal with. It's dealing with that stuff that is in my life rather than

1058
01:01:13,460 --> 01:01:19,140
trying to find that's the value. Like you talked about the judgmental background. I think that's

1059
01:01:19,140 --> 01:01:25,140
what shifted for me as well is there wasn't a lot of value in judging everything. There was tremendous

1060
01:01:25,140 --> 01:01:32,660
value in bringing grace to everything. And that's the flip for me on this whole journey of

1061
01:01:33,620 --> 01:01:39,620
embracing grace at a whole nother level of it works. It's better. Grace is just better.

1062
01:01:40,740 --> 01:01:46,820
And the same thing, I think, and just pivot out from mirror, how about the company you keep?

1063
01:01:46,820 --> 01:01:53,460
Nobody golfed better with a terrible group of foursome. You golf better when you've got people

1064
01:01:53,460 --> 01:01:59,540
on your foursome that are really good. My son spent a lot of time with kids that were three or four

1065
01:01:59,540 --> 01:02:05,380
years younger. And it just didn't do him any good. There was different modalities, different dreams,

1066
01:02:05,380 --> 01:02:13,140
different ambitions, and just living off the teats of the parents. And I think that it applies to

1067
01:02:13,140 --> 01:02:16,820
that too. I think we can definitely dedicate an entire episode to that. I think it's brilliant.

1068
01:02:17,540 --> 01:02:25,300
Yeah. One of the other things too, Dr. Robert Morris, of course, touched on this and the spiritual.

1069
01:02:25,300 --> 01:02:30,020
There's another guy that's a fruitarian that I found on YouTube. I can't remember his name.

1070
01:02:30,020 --> 01:02:36,420
I can send it to you. But he basically was presenting the idea that in order to connect

1071
01:02:36,420 --> 01:02:43,220
to the spiritual planes, the astral, you really have to clean your body out. So it starts with,

1072
01:02:44,340 --> 01:02:49,540
and you touched on that, Rich, earlier, just the whole idea of I've got to get the junk out.

1073
01:02:50,340 --> 01:02:56,820
I've got to purify the body so that I can purify in order to connect to the spiritual. And it

1074
01:02:56,820 --> 01:03:03,540
may kind of make sense to me, but it's very interesting that one thing leads to the other.

1075
01:03:03,540 --> 01:03:10,900
Well, I found his argument incredibly credible, because it's very simple. And the idea, one,

1076
01:03:11,860 --> 01:03:20,340
the body, what is it when it converts the fruit sugars very differently than manmade sugars,

1077
01:03:20,340 --> 01:03:26,100
and it is a lot better for your body. But he talked about it as if you're just eating fruit,

1078
01:03:26,100 --> 01:03:32,660
you're really out, you're creating an alkaline state in your body that it can come out of your

1079
01:03:32,660 --> 01:03:39,620
body, come back to neutral, it can breathe, you're not inflamed. Most people live in a permanent

1080
01:03:39,620 --> 01:03:47,060
inflamed state because our food sources are so shitty. And, you know, look, you just learning

1081
01:03:47,060 --> 01:03:52,020
that and realizing that I could affect that is very powerful. I think that's the value of this

1082
01:03:52,020 --> 01:03:59,060
whole podcast journey, as we've talked to so many different people that are living outside of the

1083
01:03:59,060 --> 01:04:02,980
world. And I can't tell you how many times Rich and I have said, Oh, my God, that was the best

1084
01:04:02,980 --> 01:04:09,140
podcast ever, because we learned something. Yeah, the whole journey of this podcast has been to

1085
01:04:09,140 --> 01:04:13,940
learn something. And it has been incredibly valuable learning these things, because they

1086
01:04:13,940 --> 01:04:23,940
changed our lives. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah, Joel, it has been fantastic having you on.

1087
01:04:23,940 --> 01:04:29,220
And I loved all of this. This has been great hearing from our audience. And if you are a

1088
01:04:29,220 --> 01:04:35,380
listener, please contact us, find us on our podcast channel on our website, living in the

1089
01:04:35,380 --> 01:04:42,580
matrix.ai. Contact me on Twitter, or on contact Rich on Twitter and me on Instagram. And we would

1090
01:04:42,580 --> 01:04:46,420
love to hear from you. Maybe we should, I would love to have more guests. It would be fun to do

1091
01:04:46,420 --> 01:04:53,220
this. Rich, any final words? No, just it's been an absolute pleasure, Joel. I'm glad we gel in the

1092
01:04:53,220 --> 01:04:58,980
same places. And I think having these conversations every single time resonates with somebody else.

1093
01:04:58,980 --> 01:05:05,300
And that's how it grows and expands. And I think that there's so many practical ways where we can

1094
01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:08,420
get through this, because it's not getting easier out there right now. The world is really

1095
01:05:08,420 --> 01:05:12,660
challenging. There's a lot of crazy stuff, and we need each other in order to make this thing work.

1096
01:05:12,660 --> 01:05:16,500
And the stronger we are together, the stronger we'll be as a planet. So thank you so much for

1097
01:05:16,500 --> 01:05:24,740
your time. And everybody just hug a friend, a loved one this weekend. Enjoy, get outdoors. And

1098
01:05:25,780 --> 01:05:28,900
Joel, any final thoughts from your end? Anything final on your end?

1099
01:05:28,900 --> 01:05:33,860
No, I just I just want to say, you know, Virginia Drake is someone that I presented to JB

1100
01:05:34,420 --> 01:05:41,540
as a guest. I ended up having two phone conversations with her. So Jenny, she mentioned

1101
01:05:41,540 --> 01:05:46,020
you, Rich, and she said, Hey, she's still waiting for you to follow up with her on that one.

1102
01:05:46,020 --> 01:05:50,660
I'm scared. I'm scared what's gonna happen, because it's gonna be kind of too revelatory. She told me,

1103
01:05:50,660 --> 01:05:54,580
she literally says, Wow, you've done some deep work. And then when I told her what I did, she's

1104
01:05:54,580 --> 01:06:00,660
like, Oh, bad, Richie bad juju. Right. So it was, it was like, Wow, that's, that's a castigation

1105
01:06:00,660 --> 01:06:06,980
online. But I think, um, you know, she's saying, you don't need somebody else. Just it's just you.

1106
01:06:06,980 --> 01:06:10,980
It's the breath. And it's the groundwork. It's just you. And she's seen some crazy stuff. And

1107
01:06:10,980 --> 01:06:16,180
we've she's got some crazy ideas out there. But believe it or not, I understand. And I kind of

1108
01:06:16,180 --> 01:06:20,820
joll up with what she says, but I will have to do that. It's gonna be a promise. Yeah.

1109
01:06:21,700 --> 01:06:25,860
That's great. Well, thanks for coming on, bro. And to all of our listeners, please comment,

1110
01:06:25,860 --> 01:06:32,340
review. We'd love to hear from you. And have an absolutely fantastic weekend. Tell yourself

1111
01:06:32,340 --> 01:06:36,820
you're worth it every single day. Start a new mantra. Start something that is improving your

1112
01:06:36,820 --> 01:06:41,940
lives. That's why we're here. We're here to encourage people to believe in themselves,

1113
01:06:41,940 --> 01:06:46,580
to have faith in themselves and to grow because this life is pretty incredible when you let it be.

1114
01:06:48,100 --> 01:06:49,700
Much love, everybody. Have a great week.

1115
01:06:49,700 --> 01:07:05,700
So let's get started.