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I'm the Matrix, I'm Jonathan, and I'm left of center.

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And I'm Rich, and I tend to lean a little bit more

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to the right, but the bottom line is,

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is together we try to look for the balance

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of what it means to be human in today's world.

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All right, let's get started everyone.

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Welcome to Living in the Matrix, I'm Jonathan,

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and this is my cohost Rich, say hello Rich.

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Hey everybody, great to be back.

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It seems like it's been a couple of weeks

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and a lot has taken place since then,

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but happy to have our guest back today.

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Yeah, we've had some interesting moments.

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We should have a topics episode pretty soon here

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because things are brewing, a lot of stuff,

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interesting stuff is happening,

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but we have an absolutely fantastic guest today.

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Her name is Ariel Lanning, and Ariel is a deconstruction

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coach, helping people deconstruct from their

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Christian faith to find their intuition,

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overcoming their fear, and taking their lives back.

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I love that idea, welcome Ariel.

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Thank you, and thank you for having me.

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I'm excited to be here and talking with you guys.

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Yeah, so I found you on Instagram,

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and you immediately caught my attention

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because you took, in the three first videos

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that I ever saw, you took a very hard approach

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to this is spiritual trauma and it's abusive

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for people who have lived sort of the traditional

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evangelical faith, that's a hard line,

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but I wanna listen to that because I think one,

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I think having known a little bit about your story

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comes from personal experience,

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and I wanna open up the space here for you

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to sort of help us unpack your big idea

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that you talk a lot about on Instagram.

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Sure, thank you for that introduction.

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Honestly, it was a very long time coming

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and opening a very devout Christian faith of myself,

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and then learning more and more about the human body

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and what could not work, the two concepts

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that would contradict each other.

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So my goal now is to help people understand

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that they can have spirituality without the rules

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and without the constructs and without the foundations

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that are toxic and go against human nature

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and adopt what does work with them and move forward

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and also have psychology, neuroscience, physiology,

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and quantum physics support certain realms of spirituality.

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So you can have the science and the heart,

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you can have the semantics and the analytical,

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you just have to find where they can come together

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and they don't contradict each other.

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And coming from an upbringing that was Mormon LDS,

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Latter-day Saints, which is Christian,

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people often like to try to say that it isn't,

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but the church is called the Church of Jesus Christ

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of Latter-day Saints.

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So we believe in the Bible, but also not we,

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past we believed in the Bible

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and then also the addition of the Book of Mormon.

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And so we did follow Jesus Christ.

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But as I started studying my journey

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and the concepts that really helped near and dear to me,

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the contradiction started rewriting my beliefs

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and then I would try to find healing modalities

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that helped me heal the subconscious part

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because I could know on a cognitive level

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what I no longer agreed with,

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but I could not help my subconscious and tissues

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follow along until I did certain work.

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So what I hear you saying,

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because I know a lot about what you're talking about

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especially the quantum physics

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and the neuroscience around it,

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you essentially realized you couldn't change

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until you did something in your body.

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It wasn't just here, it was also here.

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And I completely agree with that.

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I think that's the awakening that is happening now.

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A lot of people are realizing theology lives

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primarily up here in the way of most religions

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is focus on the theology and the right way of thinking

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and your body will automatically follow along.

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And that's not true.

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Your body is based on scripts

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and you have to change your body.

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And you found that out.

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Tell me a little bit about how,

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well, first I wanna go back and ask,

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you have a unique story.

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You were a devout Christian in the Latter-day Saints.

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What were the contradictions

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that kind of began the journey for you to go,

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because why would you even deconstruct?

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Well, the contradictions didn't become blatant

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until I began a yoga teacher training

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because I started yoga after I had my daughter.

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But some of the things that happened up until then

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started unraveling, because when you start yoga

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and you start somatic work,

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you start healing things from your past

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that you didn't know were still tagging along

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for the journey.

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So a couple of the things that I went through

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that were probably the most-

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Interruption.

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Was there a particular type of yoga that helped you with that?

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Because I mean, there's this idea of yoga

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where a lot of people are,

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I'm doing it for stretching and exercise and limberness.

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But then if you look at the Bhagavad Gita

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and you look at other kinds of yoga,

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there's actually deep spiritual paths in the yoga.

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Was there a particular element that your instructor

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was helping you with for our audience?

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Because we've had both kinds.

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Yeah.

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Well, honestly, my yoga instructor

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is trained in the Eastern philosophies.

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And she also has a biology background.

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So her majors in college were biology.

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And she lives in a conservative town.

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We live in North Texas.

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So she approached it from a very scientific aspect

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to make sure that it was obtainable

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and touchable for our community.

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And only once you've known her for a very long time,

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will you start getting any more of the-

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I don't know, I like the word magic sometimes,

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but the woo woo, you know, people like to, from her.

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It's crucial.

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You don't really get, yeah.

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She ties it all in so naturally

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and she grounds it into our humanity

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with such a foundation in science and her Eastern premise.

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So everything she does makes yoga,

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like we're all about modifications and breath work

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and conscious breathing.

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And it's very far from the Western yoga

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that if I go to a Western yoga class, I'm really thrown.

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Cause I've only been studying primarily from her for years

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and I stay with her because of it.

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So I wouldn't say it's a type of yoga.

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I would say it was a, well, I guess yes Eastern,

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but we still did all kinds like Hatha, Yin.

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It doesn't really, they all helped me in that aspect.

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Just depends on the teacher.

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Were you going to her as a coach or a somatic practitioner?

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So I've seen her as both,

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but she owns the yoga studio in my town

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and I also did all my yoga teacher trainings under her.

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So I've been studying under her since 2018 or 19.

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So that's the kind of yoga background that's,

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before that I started with yoga with Adrian on YouTube.

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So back to my question about what were those sense of

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things that didn't make sense?

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Help us understand what those were.

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When I was 19, I had a high school sweetheart of four years

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and he was not religious,

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but we had fallen off the path of my Christianity

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because we fell into poverty.

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And so my parents' mental health fell

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and mine did as well along with my siblings,

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but I was the oldest.

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So I got out of the house the quickest

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and was on my own and had three jobs.

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I was in community college and working as a model and singer

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and doing all the things I could do

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to be a young successful adult.

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And then I had a crush on a female that I met

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and I could not deny it.

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And I finally realized that I had language for it.

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Even though I had crushes when I was younger,

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there was no vocabulary.

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It was just this untouchable thing

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that I learned to fragment.

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I learned to like shut the doors and compartmentalize

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these aspects of myself into a way

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that like they didn't exist.

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And then when I realized that I had this thing

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I could not deny, when I left him for her,

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I left every healthy thing that I had in place

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because since I had this subconscious belief

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that I was this unworthy sinner,

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when I stepped into that role, I embodied it entirely

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and stepped into a lifestyle of complete chaotic,

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unhealthy dynamics in every, any aspect.

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I dropped my college, I lost my jobs.

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I moved in with my girlfriend,

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drank ridiculous amounts for about two and a half years.

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I really lost myself in a depression as well.

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And then that boyfriend committed suicide

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and then the guilt toppled and I became like definitely ill.

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I would say I lost 50 pounds in a couple of months

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and developed allergies to all the basic ingredients

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like wheat, corn, dairy, scallops.

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There was a couple others, but I couldn't eat anything.

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And I got pregnant with my daughter

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and the pregnancy saved my life.

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And so then once I had her, I was like, okay, well,

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I gotta figure out how to be a healthy person

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for this little person.

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And so I started yoga and that's where mindsets started

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to really reset themselves and reorganize them.

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And I could feel the pain without becoming them

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and understand that his choices were not my fault.

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And he didn't pass away because I chose to date a female

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and explore who I was as a human being.

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So that's one of the aspects that really had me

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turning around in circles when I was debating

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whether self-love was this concept that I could approach

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and actually embody or if self-love was kind of

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this selfish thing that at least the Christianity

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around me was preaching was not of God.

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You know, we were, he's first, I am second,

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that kind of thing.

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And in order to heal the self, it had to be a rewiring

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of the internal narrator to be the parent

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that was the most loving parent you can ever imagine

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and really set your boundaries and honor the self.

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And I had to learn that that was okay to do.

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Yeah, wow.

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That is some powerful stuff there, Ariel.

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I mean, I'm just so much going on.

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In one of your reels, you talked about the dangers

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of purity culture and we've seen in the evangelical side

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of things, a guy named Josh Harris who wrote a book

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called Kiss Dating Goodbye.

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You might've heard of that book,

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but he actually basically looked back and he,

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I think he not only divorced his wife,

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but he basically said, I lied, this is a terrible thing.

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It was for the books.

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It was a joke.

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It was not true.

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Tell us what you, help the audience understand what

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the damages that you saw from purity culture

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and what we can probably do to help change that.

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It seems like it's lost the favor that it had,

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let's say 10, 15 years ago,

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because everybody had the purity rings

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and there was such pressure, right?

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And you could just see the people breaking.

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So what in your mind is the trajectory?

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What are the underlying pain and suffering

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that come from it?

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And then what do we do to get out of that kind of mindset

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to get to a healthier place in your mind?

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With purity culture, I think it's unhealthy

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for both males and females.

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And to start off with the idea that so many young men,

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especially in the LDS church are really preached to

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that their fulfillment is based off of finding this person

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who will make their home everything they've ever dreamed of

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and fulfill the wishes of God

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and that it's God's wish to have as many children

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as possible and that is how you make heaven on earth.

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And it puts such an unreachable goal of happiness

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on this responsibility of another individual

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and actually removes their power

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00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,600
of actually finding their sole purpose

264
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,040
and passion that could fulfill them

265
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,160
in so many more ways than a relationship

266
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,520
because relationships don't make us whole.

267
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,480
I also think that that puts a lot of,

268
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,760
it projects into a lot of resentment

269
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:46,760
because once you do find, if you do find your soul,

270
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:51,760
find if you do, if that's your goal is the ideal subservient

271
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,800
pure in quotations woman

272
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,140
and you think you've accomplished that

273
00:14:02,140 --> 00:14:03,760
and then you're still not happy

274
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,480
because there's so many other aspects of life

275
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,480
that need to be managed in order for a gradual,

276
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,960
even state of balance in life.

277
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,960
And once they realize they can't have it through her,

278
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,440
there's a resentment and they don't understand always that,

279
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,160
and I hate saying like they, like everyone,

280
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,240
but it's a large group of what I'm observing

281
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,900
that it's not her responsibility

282
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:35,800
and that there's nothing wrong with their relationship,

283
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,240
but maybe there's something else unfulfilled within them

284
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:39,400
that they could go find.

285
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,320
And a lot of times in Christian counseling,

286
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,800
it's turn to God more, pray to God more,

287
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,040
a lot of advice that doesn't actually help

288
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,240
with reestablishing the missing pieces

289
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,040
that usually come from the upbringing.

290
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:55,840
And then on the other side of it,

291
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,760
you have women with so much repressed sexual shame

292
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,920
from being told specifically in LDS as well

293
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,000
is that we're responsible for men's reactions to our skin

294
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,180
and that they can't control their thoughts

295
00:15:09,180 --> 00:15:11,960
once you reveal like some skin,

296
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,040
it's your responsibility to monitor there.

297
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,040
So then you have for one, a resentment of you're carrying,

298
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,760
you're carrying all of their reactions that's on you, right?

299
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,160
The kind of the, we talk about that one all the time,

300
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:34,160
but not only that, but there's so much shame associated

301
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,480
with holding this thing that could potentially

302
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,720
be the downfall of another thing

303
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,440
that then the sexual chakra, the second chakra

304
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,880
is actually suppressed energetically.

305
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,440
And we can't even be the embodied sexual human beings

306
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,720
we would want to be at our best with our,

307
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:51,920
even our one partner,

308
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,640
if we were in a monogamous Christian relationship,

309
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,440
because there is so much shame associated

310
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,800
with the women and the female anatomy

311
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,880
that there is no embodiment, especially in the bedroom.

312
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,140
So you have two aspects looking for,

313
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,000
well, somebody, they just have these expectations

314
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,840
that are unobtainable with the preliminary

315
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,080
or the building up of the mindset.

316
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,920
If I rounded that about the way I wanted to.

317
00:16:25,860 --> 00:16:28,720
You go back to, you've mentioned several times

318
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,440
this idea of loving yourself.

319
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,880
And what I heard is, because I experienced this as well,

320
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,680
is within the Christian culture,

321
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,800
it's never the idea of love yourself,

322
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,820
it's the idea of deny yourself.

323
00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:49,120
And I think denying yourself is the fullest embodiment

324
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,840
of loving yourself, but loving yourself has to come first

325
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,160
in order to understand why to deny yourself.

326
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,080
So if you, how hard was it for you to look,

327
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,140
because I've struggled with this.

328
00:16:58,140 --> 00:17:00,240
I think this is one of the central questions

329
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,000
of all human beings is,

330
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,480
it's hard to learn to love yourself.

331
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,160
It's easier to just ignore it.

332
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,520
What was that journey like for you

333
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:13,140
to really begin to say, oh, loving myself,

334
00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:16,760
not denying myself, but loving myself, what was that like?

335
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:17,600
What'd you feel?

336
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:24,760
That was a very gradual process and unraveling.

337
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:30,760
And it didn't come full circle, full opening

338
00:17:30,780 --> 00:17:34,640
until I opened a very huge trauma from childhood.

339
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,640
So if I wanna preface this with a little trigger warning,

340
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,280
about, I've been working on self-love

341
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,240
and fixing the inner narrator

342
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,760
because there's a big shame spiral if I mess up.

343
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:49,760
Oh, of course you did.

344
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,040
Of course this is your luck.

345
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,600
This is how things happen for you.

346
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,480
This like kind of a shame.

347
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,120
It's the unworthy script.

348
00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:01,520
Yeah, yeah, and an unworthy script.

349
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,160
And so I've been working on reparenting that inner voice,

350
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,520
like it's okay, it's not a big deal.

351
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:07,360
We'll pick it up.

352
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:08,200
It's not a big mess.

353
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:09,620
We're only two minutes late.

354
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,720
And last year in EMDR therapy,

355
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,320
I was working on what I thought was religious trauma.

356
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,680
And we were in, we started at my baptism

357
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,520
because that's what was coming up.

358
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,840
And so in the memory, I'm walking into the tub

359
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,500
and I can remember where everybody is,

360
00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:34,320
the white, the man that's going to baptize me.

361
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,320
And I'm feeling at age eight,

362
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,080
cause that's when you got baptized in LDS,

363
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,320
that the tub is gonna like turn red

364
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,200
or that Jesus or God is gonna just announce from the skies

365
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,760
that I should not be getting baptized.

366
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,640
Like this thunderous voice is gonna like boom in.

367
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:56,680
And so many of my therapists are like,

368
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,120
well, that's a very big fear for an eight-year-old.

369
00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,060
Like what could you have possibly done?

370
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,420
So we had to go further into the body and ask.

371
00:19:06,420 --> 00:19:09,020
And then I was in my childhood playhouse

372
00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:13,020
that I hadn't visualized or even seen in 20 years,

373
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,220
25 years and with a foreign hand on my thighs.

374
00:19:19,220 --> 00:19:24,220
So we opened an essay, a childhood essay from age four

375
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,760
that I had repressed and it was a reoccurring incidence.

376
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,520
So it happened more than once.

377
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,360
And because of the repressed memory,

378
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:38,360
I did not feel like I should have even been baptized.

379
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,920
And I had to, and I had all this shame

380
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,000
thinking like I was gonna be found out

381
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,400
since I guess age four.

382
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,620
So once that happened last year,

383
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:58,080
my mom actually denied it and said that I was a liar

384
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,080
to my siblings.

385
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,080
And I had to learn to be my own support team.

386
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,560
I had my therapist and I had a couple of best friends,

387
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,240
but therapists are expensive.

388
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,240
And it's a very heavy process to remember that bit by bit

389
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,000
and accept it and hold it.

390
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,000
And so in having to learn how to hold fractioned

391
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,600
four-year-old me who had went into hiding

392
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,600
when that happened, I really regained the ability

393
00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:38,940
to talk to myself as I would wanna speak to a child now.

394
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,520
What happened to you by learning with that?

395
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,480
That's an amazing tool to be able to speak to yourself

396
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:48,640
as a child.

397
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:49,800
How did that help you?

398
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:54,800
Instead of speaking to myself like I was

399
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,840
this shameful, angry teenager,

400
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,520
which I guess is the voice that was kind of internalized

401
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:07,520
all this time and full of suppressed anger and rage

402
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,160
for these things that I hadn't been able to hold

403
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,820
spaciously with love,

404
00:21:13,820 --> 00:21:18,820
finally being able to, I couldn't even ever see myself

405
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:22,220
as a child until I found her.

406
00:21:22,220 --> 00:21:25,500
And then being able to see that child

407
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:29,580
and know that she was worth the same grace as my own child.

408
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,980
Wow, that's some deep stuff.

409
00:21:34,980 --> 00:21:37,380
You're literally not able to experience

410
00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:41,300
what it actually should be like for every young child

411
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:44,240
because of that trauma was pushed back there.

412
00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:50,100
One of the people I've been studying a little bit lately

413
00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:52,340
is Carl Jung, he's a very famous psychoanalyst.

414
00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:55,360
He was out there during Freud and I like him better

415
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:57,900
because he didn't make everything sexual

416
00:21:57,900 --> 00:21:59,940
even though sexuality was a big part of it.

417
00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:02,580
Freud was definitely, sexuality is the root of all

418
00:22:03,860 --> 00:22:08,860
malbehaviors, but can you give us some examples

419
00:22:08,860 --> 00:22:11,980
of some particular things that you did

420
00:22:11,980 --> 00:22:13,020
to help pull that back?

421
00:22:13,020 --> 00:22:14,340
Because what Jung would do,

422
00:22:14,340 --> 00:22:15,740
he would go through dreams, right?

423
00:22:15,740 --> 00:22:17,020
He would do dream analysis, right?

424
00:22:17,020 --> 00:22:19,620
And they would tell these stories and go,

425
00:22:19,620 --> 00:22:21,500
and some of them didn't make any sense at all

426
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:22,980
until he dug a little bit deeper

427
00:22:22,980 --> 00:22:25,100
and then he found some extended circumstances.

428
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:28,860
So what in those particular practices were you doing?

429
00:22:28,860 --> 00:22:33,360
Behaviors, actions, thoughts, meditations

430
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:37,020
that helped find that childhood

431
00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:40,020
and what did you actually do?

432
00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:43,820
Can you explain that or is it hard to describe?

433
00:22:43,820 --> 00:22:44,660
So are you talking,

434
00:22:44,660 --> 00:22:46,860
this would be the EMDR practice specifically then?

435
00:22:46,860 --> 00:22:48,420
Yes, I'm sorry, I'm sorry Ashley

436
00:22:48,420 --> 00:22:50,220
because I'm not familiar with that term.

437
00:22:50,220 --> 00:22:51,060
Oh, that's okay.

438
00:22:52,260 --> 00:22:53,260
We could flush that out there,

439
00:22:53,260 --> 00:22:54,900
help us understand what that was.

440
00:22:56,300 --> 00:23:01,300
So much like a lot of work with either somatic exploration

441
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,660
which you would kind of follow in your own experience

442
00:23:05,660 --> 00:23:08,540
or even what I've studied in clairvoyant healing

443
00:23:08,540 --> 00:23:11,780
is you follow these sensations that have symbolisms

444
00:23:11,780 --> 00:23:13,760
and open up for different meanings.

445
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,660
But in EMDR, you're very in the somatic experience.

446
00:23:17,660 --> 00:23:19,580
So especially with a childhood essay,

447
00:23:19,580 --> 00:23:21,620
there's a big chance that your eyes were closed.

448
00:23:21,620 --> 00:23:25,660
So there isn't always a visual that starts off there.

449
00:23:25,660 --> 00:23:28,860
But so we followed the discomfort

450
00:23:28,860 --> 00:23:31,340
and a lot of people struggle sitting with discomfort.

451
00:23:31,340 --> 00:23:35,580
That's why it is sometimes very difficult

452
00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:37,100
to begin these processes.

453
00:23:38,060 --> 00:23:41,340
And so with the images that I did have,

454
00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:44,340
that's where it was our access point is what she would call it.

455
00:23:44,340 --> 00:23:48,420
So I had the memories and the visuals from the baptism,

456
00:23:48,420 --> 00:23:51,700
but I mean, we didn't know we were opening the child essay

457
00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:53,580
until we were there.

458
00:23:53,580 --> 00:23:58,040
And so you kind of go into what you remember

459
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:05,800
and follow along and it's very much like a sentience.

460
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:07,700
I kind of have forgotten all the dynamics,

461
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:08,980
but once you're in it, you're like,

462
00:24:08,980 --> 00:24:10,780
oh, I'm in the tub facing this way

463
00:24:10,780 --> 00:24:12,620
and the audience is to the right.

464
00:24:12,620 --> 00:24:15,060
Everybody's ground level, they can kind of see me.

465
00:24:15,060 --> 00:24:16,040
There is a man here.

466
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,580
I can feel an arm and an arm here and an arm here.

467
00:24:19,580 --> 00:24:20,860
Oh, that's where his hands were.

468
00:24:20,860 --> 00:24:22,040
I can see the visual now.

469
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:23,580
I forgot they did it that way.

470
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:27,080
I can feel the slippery tub.

471
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,620
I feel fear like my heart's pounding out of my chest.

472
00:24:31,620 --> 00:24:35,820
And then she would say, okay, can we go into that?

473
00:24:35,820 --> 00:24:39,620
So I would take a deep breath and prepare to do so

474
00:24:39,620 --> 00:24:42,140
and I would follow the fear in my chest.

475
00:24:42,140 --> 00:24:45,180
And she would say if it doesn't have a color, a texture,

476
00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:48,820
and we might explain it that way.

477
00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:51,820
And then instead of explaining it as an emotion,

478
00:24:51,820 --> 00:24:54,060
we'd explain it as tightening,

479
00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:57,060
as if someone's pushing on my chest.

480
00:24:57,060 --> 00:25:00,860
And then we would dive it in and breathe into it.

481
00:25:00,860 --> 00:25:04,100
And I like to explain it like it's a helix ball.

482
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:08,100
You know, they kind of like the toys that open and close

483
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:11,220
as I kind of feel it that way and it opens.

484
00:25:11,220 --> 00:25:13,460
And when you breathe into it and you stay with it

485
00:25:13,460 --> 00:25:17,020
and you bring the awareness, it continues to open.

486
00:25:17,020 --> 00:25:20,660
And every emotion only lasts chemically for 90 seconds.

487
00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:23,260
So if you can stay with the trapped emotions,

488
00:25:23,260 --> 00:25:25,140
trapped emotion for 90 seconds

489
00:25:25,140 --> 00:25:28,180
without adding on new emotions with thought process,

490
00:25:28,180 --> 00:25:29,900
you can process through that emotion

491
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:31,780
and release it from the tissues.

492
00:25:31,780 --> 00:25:34,380
So we'll stay with that emotion.

493
00:25:34,380 --> 00:25:38,100
And then as it, and then it kind of might dissipate

494
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:39,380
and something new might come up.

495
00:25:39,380 --> 00:25:41,700
And then she's like, what are you feeling now?

496
00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:43,980
Now I feel this sensation.

497
00:25:43,980 --> 00:25:46,140
And so we would follow it bit by bit,

498
00:25:46,140 --> 00:25:49,380
deeper and deeper into the essay

499
00:25:49,380 --> 00:25:51,820
and then the details of all the things that happened.

500
00:25:51,820 --> 00:25:54,980
And of to four-year-old me.

501
00:25:56,180 --> 00:25:57,020
Yeah.

502
00:25:57,020 --> 00:25:59,940
I mean, this is where I think, Jonathan,

503
00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:01,980
this is where the unified field

504
00:26:01,980 --> 00:26:05,140
and this is where we're seeing the melding of things, right?

505
00:26:05,140 --> 00:26:07,980
Of physiology and time, right?

506
00:26:07,980 --> 00:26:12,220
This is the kind of stuff that is really fascinating for us

507
00:26:12,220 --> 00:26:14,700
because the more we tap into this,

508
00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:15,860
I mean, what you just described

509
00:26:15,860 --> 00:26:17,820
is a nonlinear time experience, right?

510
00:26:17,820 --> 00:26:20,780
That you literally are, it happened, you forgot it,

511
00:26:20,780 --> 00:26:23,420
but yet it's still here brought to the front.

512
00:26:23,420 --> 00:26:24,940
So it's almost like you're right there.

513
00:26:24,940 --> 00:26:28,340
And we've got a guy we like named Dr. Joe Dispenza.

514
00:26:28,340 --> 00:26:31,140
He got to go back to his eight-year-old, right?

515
00:26:31,140 --> 00:26:33,140
And he's like looking over him, right?

516
00:26:33,140 --> 00:26:35,420
And he had these fever dreams that he relished, right?

517
00:26:35,420 --> 00:26:37,180
And it's like, this is the kind of stuff

518
00:26:37,180 --> 00:26:38,340
that is fascinating.

519
00:26:38,340 --> 00:26:40,780
And this is amazing.

520
00:26:40,780 --> 00:26:43,100
It's terrible what you had to go through,

521
00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:46,260
but what you're describing is so powerful for future,

522
00:26:46,260 --> 00:26:47,820
you know, for people who are suffering.

523
00:26:47,820 --> 00:26:50,100
I mean, talk about a good demographic to have,

524
00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:51,380
people who have gone through trauma,

525
00:26:51,380 --> 00:26:52,860
who've deconstructed from Christianity,

526
00:26:52,860 --> 00:26:55,140
you've got a very big open audience.

527
00:26:55,140 --> 00:26:56,180
I can tell you that right now.

528
00:26:56,180 --> 00:26:58,020
There's a lot of people that are hurting right now

529
00:26:58,020 --> 00:26:59,540
that could definitely take advantage

530
00:26:59,540 --> 00:27:01,860
of listening to this podcast.

531
00:27:01,860 --> 00:27:04,180
Well, I think we've been taught our entire lives,

532
00:27:04,180 --> 00:27:06,260
especially in the Christian tradition,

533
00:27:06,260 --> 00:27:09,100
that we're really supposed to look to the pastor,

534
00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:11,300
you know, be our guide and our teacher.

535
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:13,460
And, you know, if those bounds are ever crossed,

536
00:27:13,460 --> 00:27:17,100
but it's, for the most part, we live a passive experience.

537
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:21,380
And what I love about Ariel's story and your process,

538
00:27:21,380 --> 00:27:23,740
because it sounds like a lot of somatic practices

539
00:27:23,740 --> 00:27:26,700
that I've experienced in the past,

540
00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:31,140
is we're learning that human beings can heal themselves.

541
00:27:32,340 --> 00:27:34,340
Because I had a very similar experience

542
00:27:34,340 --> 00:27:36,820
in February, Ariel, or in March.

543
00:27:36,820 --> 00:27:40,460
I went to Hawaii and I sat with myself at a location

544
00:27:41,420 --> 00:27:45,300
that my 11-year-old self was basically lost

545
00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:47,020
because his parents just got divorced.

546
00:27:47,020 --> 00:27:49,380
And I was there for the first time in 25 years,

547
00:27:49,380 --> 00:27:52,700
and I go, oh my God, I've got undone work.

548
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:55,020
And I sat with myself and I just sat there

549
00:27:55,020 --> 00:27:56,140
and cried with myself.

550
00:27:56,140 --> 00:27:59,280
And it was one of the most healing experiences.

551
00:28:00,220 --> 00:28:03,500
I just, and it was very helpful that I was there.

552
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:06,180
I always suggest people go back to the scene of the crime,

553
00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:07,220
because it's the easiest way

554
00:28:07,220 --> 00:28:10,340
to release a lot of the energy again.

555
00:28:10,340 --> 00:28:13,820
And I did that, and I realized,

556
00:28:13,820 --> 00:28:17,660
I have a big hand in healing myself.

557
00:28:17,660 --> 00:28:19,020
I have that capacity.

558
00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:20,660
And that's what I love about your story, Ariel,

559
00:28:20,660 --> 00:28:24,100
is that you're taking responsibility for yourself

560
00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:27,200
and saying, wait, something isn't working.

561
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:28,260
I am this person.

562
00:28:28,260 --> 00:28:29,540
I wanna figure it out,

563
00:28:29,540 --> 00:28:32,180
but I wanna learn how to love myself.

564
00:28:32,180 --> 00:28:34,740
And so getting through that journey

565
00:28:34,740 --> 00:28:36,540
of really going back and taking care

566
00:28:36,540 --> 00:28:38,780
a lot of that negative energy,

567
00:28:38,780 --> 00:28:39,900
what was the fruit of that?

568
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:41,380
What happened after that?

569
00:28:41,380 --> 00:28:43,780
Because a lot of people are afraid to really do work

570
00:28:43,780 --> 00:28:46,380
because they're afraid of what will happen after that.

571
00:28:51,380 --> 00:28:54,380
Of which thing specifically?

572
00:28:54,380 --> 00:28:58,380
Well, you have this EMDR experience.

573
00:28:58,380 --> 00:29:01,100
Did you feel a sense of release from that?

574
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:01,940
Oh, absolutely.

575
00:29:01,940 --> 00:29:03,260
Or was it a continual, yeah.

576
00:29:03,260 --> 00:29:05,300
Because I've had those where there are deep sense

577
00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:07,860
of release, sounds like it was for you too.

578
00:29:07,860 --> 00:29:12,860
Yeah, I feel like it was probably a six month process

579
00:29:13,140 --> 00:29:16,780
of sitting in it because I went to therapy every other week

580
00:29:16,780 --> 00:29:18,820
and every other week we'd open up a little bit more details

581
00:29:18,820 --> 00:29:19,900
and then I knew who it was.

582
00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:21,340
And then I knew the words that were said.

583
00:29:21,340 --> 00:29:23,380
And then I knew the next time it happened

584
00:29:23,380 --> 00:29:24,700
and I knew why I did this.

585
00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:26,980
And each bit of it processing

586
00:29:26,980 --> 00:29:31,980
while being called a liar

587
00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:33,820
from somebody who had been my best friend my whole life

588
00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:35,220
was really heavy.

589
00:29:35,220 --> 00:29:36,980
And I was like, I'm gonna go back

590
00:29:36,980 --> 00:29:37,820
to the first time I heard that.

591
00:29:37,820 --> 00:29:39,660
And I was like, oh, it's really heavy.

592
00:29:39,660 --> 00:29:42,860
And I was very much in the cocoon for a while.

593
00:29:42,860 --> 00:29:44,780
But I've heard some people say,

594
00:29:44,780 --> 00:29:45,980
oh, I'll just leave it there.

595
00:29:45,980 --> 00:29:47,180
I want nothing to do with it.

596
00:29:47,180 --> 00:29:49,740
And I'm like, oh no, no, no.

597
00:29:49,740 --> 00:29:52,540
I mean, I understand everything now

598
00:29:52,540 --> 00:29:57,540
and I can feel things on such another next level,

599
00:29:58,340 --> 00:30:00,820
especially in different aspects of my life.

600
00:30:00,820 --> 00:30:04,500
And I found a piece of me that was lost.

601
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:06,060
And then finding this piece of me,

602
00:30:06,060 --> 00:30:08,340
that was lost and fragmented.

603
00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:11,980
And it explains so many things.

604
00:30:11,980 --> 00:30:14,300
It's just like click, click, click, click, click.

605
00:30:15,740 --> 00:30:16,940
I wouldn't change it for the world.

606
00:30:16,940 --> 00:30:19,340
I'm so grateful that it came out.

607
00:30:19,340 --> 00:30:21,780
And actually I thought it was the perfect timing

608
00:30:21,780 --> 00:30:23,660
because I was on this mission to learn,

609
00:30:23,660 --> 00:30:27,620
to teach my body that it could trust itself last year.

610
00:30:27,620 --> 00:30:29,380
And I finally let it,

611
00:30:29,380 --> 00:30:33,500
it finally trusted me enough to open that for me.

612
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:38,500
So, and allow me to see it and hold it with compassion.

613
00:30:38,540 --> 00:30:41,500
So I felt like I had really accomplished something

614
00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:45,100
that I'd finally deserved to know about this information

615
00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:47,100
and to hold it in a compassionate way.

616
00:30:48,740 --> 00:30:49,940
Yeah.

617
00:30:49,940 --> 00:30:53,100
Ariel, do you think that there's healthy examples

618
00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:54,460
of Christianity out there?

619
00:30:54,460 --> 00:30:56,100
I mean, I love Jesus.

620
00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:57,580
You know, that's my deal.

621
00:30:57,580 --> 00:30:58,700
I think he's amazing.

622
00:30:58,700 --> 00:31:02,380
I think that the church has caused lots of pain

623
00:31:02,380 --> 00:31:05,020
and hierarchical power.

624
00:31:05,020 --> 00:31:07,380
If Jonathan and I are actually leaning strongly

625
00:31:07,380 --> 00:31:09,700
towards universalism where everybody will be reconciled

626
00:31:09,700 --> 00:31:12,340
to God at the end, that might not be attractive to you,

627
00:31:12,340 --> 00:31:16,660
but the idea of having a hell and people to die

628
00:31:16,660 --> 00:31:18,900
and last there forever is a really powerful

629
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:22,300
kind of compelling event to actually join the fold.

630
00:31:22,300 --> 00:31:23,860
And if you take that away, for instance,

631
00:31:23,860 --> 00:31:26,780
which some of the early church believers, you know,

632
00:31:26,780 --> 00:31:29,380
believe that, hey, God's gonna take care of everybody

633
00:31:29,380 --> 00:31:31,500
at the end because man's stupidity isn't greater

634
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:33,180
than God's love, right?

635
00:31:33,180 --> 00:31:34,460
I guess what I'm trying to get at is,

636
00:31:34,460 --> 00:31:37,420
do you believe that the early, the apostles

637
00:31:37,420 --> 00:31:39,300
and Jesus had a good message?

638
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:41,660
And do you believe that there's healthy church communities

639
00:31:41,660 --> 00:31:45,380
out there today, or do you think it's all just a big lie?

640
00:31:46,660 --> 00:31:48,460
I believe that Jesus had a good message,

641
00:31:48,460 --> 00:31:50,340
and I believe that there was more to Jesus

642
00:31:50,340 --> 00:31:51,940
than what is allowed in the Bible.

643
00:31:51,940 --> 00:31:54,140
I do, I have heard of books removed

644
00:31:54,140 --> 00:31:55,780
where he does speak on the type of love

645
00:31:55,780 --> 00:31:58,100
that I believe in now.

646
00:31:58,100 --> 00:32:03,100
I have seen Jesus in meditation, and he said,

647
00:32:03,420 --> 00:32:06,360
forgive me for what they've done in my name.

648
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,340
I don't link Jesus with Christianity.

649
00:32:09,340 --> 00:32:13,140
I believe Christianity is what was made of his love

650
00:32:13,140 --> 00:32:16,040
when mankind tried to conceptualize something

651
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,500
that could not be conceptualized.

652
00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:20,460
And since it was done so long ago,

653
00:32:20,460 --> 00:32:24,460
I believe that their intellectual levels infiltrated that

654
00:32:24,460 --> 00:32:28,580
and also therefore kind of stunted spirituality

655
00:32:28,580 --> 00:32:31,900
and its ability to flourish because of the rules

656
00:32:31,900 --> 00:32:34,220
and concepts in the box that they put on something

657
00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:35,900
that was ungraspable.

658
00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:40,900
So to say, can we have a healthy Christianity?

659
00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:44,580
Well, the foundation of Christianity believes

660
00:32:44,580 --> 00:32:47,000
that in the concept of sinners

661
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,660
and that Jesus died for your sins.

662
00:32:48,660 --> 00:32:52,100
And so in that aspect, I do not agree and I do not believe

663
00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:54,500
because in that aspect, you have to believe

664
00:32:54,500 --> 00:32:57,700
that we were born inherently bad and I don't agree with that.

665
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:00,260
And the concept of that actually impairs

666
00:33:00,260 --> 00:33:01,580
our cognitive thinking mind

667
00:33:01,580 --> 00:33:03,000
and the what we think about ourselves.

668
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,880
And that has to be something we heal and fix later in life

669
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,880
in order to touch all the aspects that make us total now.

670
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,180
But if you separate Jesus and Christianity

671
00:33:15,180 --> 00:33:19,140
and if Jesus was just Jesus in his own spiritual name,

672
00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:22,300
then yes, I can love Jesus.

673
00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:23,140
I do love Jesus.

674
00:33:24,580 --> 00:33:25,420
Of course.

675
00:33:25,420 --> 00:33:28,140
So because you have such a Christian background,

676
00:33:28,140 --> 00:33:30,460
does the cross mean anything to you?

677
00:33:30,460 --> 00:33:31,740
Doesn't have to be religious,

678
00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:33,780
but does it have any meaning now for you?

679
00:33:36,940 --> 00:33:39,060
Mormons don't actually wear crosses,

680
00:33:39,060 --> 00:33:43,020
but it actually somatically hurts my heart

681
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:44,900
when I hear it or visualize it.

682
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:49,900
And I think it's because of how much healing work I've done,

683
00:33:52,340 --> 00:33:57,340
there is this, I just feel the pain of the incident

684
00:33:58,340 --> 00:34:02,660
and the betrayal and the actual pain.

685
00:34:02,660 --> 00:34:05,180
It's just a horrific thing.

686
00:34:05,180 --> 00:34:07,820
And so I see it as like,

687
00:34:07,820 --> 00:34:09,660
as if you were watching a horror movie.

688
00:34:09,660 --> 00:34:15,340
It's almost like it just makes my heart ache.

689
00:34:15,340 --> 00:34:16,500
Just so you know, Ariel,

690
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:18,540
I actually wrote a book in 2010 called

691
00:34:18,540 --> 00:34:20,220
Discovering the God Imagination

692
00:34:20,220 --> 00:34:23,540
that did say exactly what you said,

693
00:34:23,540 --> 00:34:26,220
which is we got it wrong in the garden.

694
00:34:26,220 --> 00:34:29,020
God never lost touch with good, ever.

695
00:34:29,020 --> 00:34:30,260
It's human beings that did.

696
00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:31,940
And so what the cross is,

697
00:34:31,940 --> 00:34:33,320
the reason why I ask about the cross is,

698
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,380
the cross is Jesus saying, okay, I'm God.

699
00:34:36,380 --> 00:34:40,100
This is how far I will go to let you realize

700
00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:41,780
I still love you no matter what.

701
00:34:41,780 --> 00:34:43,620
There is no disconnection.

702
00:34:43,620 --> 00:34:45,220
It's all somatic.

703
00:34:45,220 --> 00:34:46,900
It happens in the brain, in the amygdala

704
00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:48,940
that cuts you off from the default mode network

705
00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:51,140
and you're disconnected from your God self.

706
00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:55,780
And I wrote a whole book on it because we got it wrong.

707
00:34:55,780 --> 00:34:57,140
We did, we got it wrong.

708
00:34:57,140 --> 00:34:59,620
Evangelical Christianity got it wrong.

709
00:34:59,620 --> 00:35:04,140
And if you begin with the idea that God's declaration

710
00:35:04,140 --> 00:35:07,260
in Genesis one, seven times, it is good, it is good,

711
00:35:07,260 --> 00:35:09,020
it is good, it's not about the creation,

712
00:35:09,020 --> 00:35:10,320
it's about the judgment.

713
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,180
So God, and then we get to a point

714
00:35:13,180 --> 00:35:16,200
where there's this tree that asks one question of duality,

715
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:17,480
are you good or evil?

716
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,020
Well, God's already given you seven times you're good

717
00:35:20,020 --> 00:35:21,200
and then they get it wrong.

718
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,960
That's the story.

719
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,320
So it's human beings recovering from ourselves.

720
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,740
So I want you to know, I think you're spot on.

721
00:35:29,740 --> 00:35:33,740
And I think that's your heart listening to somatically going,

722
00:35:33,740 --> 00:35:36,620
yeah, the cross was a screwed up situation,

723
00:35:36,620 --> 00:35:39,580
but it did reveal the nature of grace.

724
00:35:39,580 --> 00:35:43,020
That's the one value of it that I think is undeniable

725
00:35:43,020 --> 00:35:47,020
is that it's basically proving the reality

726
00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:50,920
that grace is how the system operates.

727
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:51,760
Yeah.

728
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,820
And I think he did it because nothing else was working.

729
00:35:54,820 --> 00:35:56,820
I mean, you've gone through cycles and cycles

730
00:35:56,820 --> 00:35:59,660
and cycles of violence and recapitulation.

731
00:35:59,660 --> 00:36:01,180
And no matter what happened,

732
00:36:01,180 --> 00:36:02,500
no matter how many miracles happened,

733
00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:03,860
it was just the same old thing.

734
00:36:03,860 --> 00:36:07,440
And it's all about politics and it's all about power.

735
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,620
And he's like, I'm doing this for you,

736
00:36:09,620 --> 00:36:11,020
not you for me, right?

737
00:36:11,020 --> 00:36:13,500
I'm trying to show a way here.

738
00:36:13,500 --> 00:36:15,940
So, yeah.

739
00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:19,820
My theory is the first 6,000 or the last 6,000 years

740
00:36:19,820 --> 00:36:21,740
in essence around that amount of time.

741
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,020
We've lived in a masculine age and the polls have flipped

742
00:36:27,020 --> 00:36:29,200
and we are beginning a feminine age

743
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,060
because what the feminine does is it connects

744
00:36:33,060 --> 00:36:35,020
to the body somatically.

745
00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:38,820
The masculine is all up here and the feminine is saying,

746
00:36:38,820 --> 00:36:42,420
okay, we need balance because things are way out of whack

747
00:36:42,420 --> 00:36:45,420
and it's been so far out of whack forever.

748
00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:46,900
And we're shifting.

749
00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:50,740
And that's why I think people like you are standing up

750
00:36:50,740 --> 00:36:52,520
because the polls are shifting.

751
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:58,180
We need a feminine balance to this ridiculous sense

752
00:36:58,180 --> 00:37:01,860
of masculinity that has dominated capitalism, history,

753
00:37:02,940 --> 00:37:05,580
religions, all religions are started by men.

754
00:37:06,460 --> 00:37:09,000
So it's a shift.

755
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,780
That's why I wanted to bring you on Ariel

756
00:37:10,780 --> 00:37:12,980
is because I think you have a great story.

757
00:37:12,980 --> 00:37:15,740
But one of the things that I love about your videos

758
00:37:15,740 --> 00:37:19,280
is that you have this almost mama heart

759
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:20,580
that comes out in them.

760
00:37:20,580 --> 00:37:23,660
Like I always said, if there's anybody in hell,

761
00:37:23,660 --> 00:37:25,500
the first people that are going there after we die

762
00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:27,060
are mothers.

763
00:37:27,060 --> 00:37:30,820
And I sense that in you because you have this strong sense

764
00:37:30,820 --> 00:37:35,220
of fuck you, we're worth more than that.

765
00:37:37,620 --> 00:37:39,180
So thank you for your videos.

766
00:37:40,060 --> 00:37:41,300
Thanks.

767
00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:42,140
I like that.

768
00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:44,300
And it's a dark feminine embodiment.

769
00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:48,700
Yeah, that's the one there.

770
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:51,660
Mama bear is saying, I'm gonna do whatever it takes.

771
00:37:51,660 --> 00:37:53,460
Yeah, but you know, Jonathan,

772
00:37:53,460 --> 00:37:54,940
you just brought up something also interesting

773
00:37:54,940 --> 00:37:57,100
is that women are trying so hard to be men

774
00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:58,660
in the leadership role, right?

775
00:37:58,660 --> 00:38:01,940
Women are trying to be the patriarchal roles

776
00:38:01,940 --> 00:38:03,980
and they're not tapping into the power that they have

777
00:38:03,980 --> 00:38:04,800
with their own.

778
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,260
And we need to appreciate what the divine feminine,

779
00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:09,700
what that true strength of the feminine is

780
00:38:09,700 --> 00:38:11,100
and let that be a leader.

781
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:14,140
And that's why it was always in priestesses, right?

782
00:38:14,140 --> 00:38:18,140
That's why, I mean, it could be that men founded

783
00:38:18,140 --> 00:38:21,480
all religions, but there's a lot of strong female leaders

784
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,700
across a lot of indigenous places where they are the bad-ass

785
00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:25,900
in the neighborhood.

786
00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:26,740
They know-

787
00:38:26,740 --> 00:38:27,560
Always better leaders.

788
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:28,820
Yeah, they're fast in.

789
00:38:28,820 --> 00:38:31,300
They keep the peace, they have the structure,

790
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:32,500
they're better organized.

791
00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:34,140
There's a lot more going on right there.

792
00:38:34,140 --> 00:38:37,260
And I think what we have today, like in the United States

793
00:38:37,260 --> 00:38:40,140
is we've got people who are being inauthentically female.

794
00:38:40,140 --> 00:38:43,020
They're trying to say, I can swear and be all the,

795
00:38:43,020 --> 00:38:45,140
and I can say all the things and do all the things

796
00:38:45,140 --> 00:38:47,300
and I can make it look like I'm the man

797
00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:48,900
that's supposed to be there.

798
00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:52,020
I wanna shift gears a little bit and ask,

799
00:38:52,020 --> 00:38:54,940
Ariel, does the Church of Latter-day Saints

800
00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:58,820
have a strong concept of hell

801
00:38:58,820 --> 00:39:00,620
or is it sort of in the background?

802
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,540
Actually, it's much different than

803
00:39:05,540 --> 00:39:06,940
the mainstream concept of hell.

804
00:39:06,940 --> 00:39:08,820
They have three different kingdoms.

805
00:39:08,820 --> 00:39:13,820
So there's not so much a fiery pit of hell with Satan,

806
00:39:14,460 --> 00:39:17,060
but this like waiting place where you can go,

807
00:39:17,060 --> 00:39:19,140
but you don't get to be with your,

808
00:39:19,140 --> 00:39:24,140
the baptized top level Mormons.

809
00:39:26,740 --> 00:39:28,740
Yeah, you get the celestial, terrestrial,

810
00:39:28,740 --> 00:39:30,620
and telestial or something, I think.

811
00:39:30,620 --> 00:39:31,460
Yeah, yeah.

812
00:39:31,460 --> 00:39:32,300
And there's the fun of them.

813
00:39:32,300 --> 00:39:33,120
Yeah.

814
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:34,660
I haven't heard the term since I was like 18,

815
00:39:34,660 --> 00:39:37,980
so I don't remember them, but yeah,

816
00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:39,940
there's different levels and it's a little different

817
00:39:39,940 --> 00:39:41,900
than the typical, yeah.

818
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,620
And you can baptize your loved ones on behalf.

819
00:39:46,620 --> 00:39:49,540
So if you're worried about somebody, Jonathan,

820
00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:51,620
you can bring them into the fold, I believe, right?

821
00:39:51,620 --> 00:39:53,180
Is that correct?

822
00:39:53,180 --> 00:39:55,060
It's called Baptisms for the Dead and it's,

823
00:39:55,060 --> 00:39:56,460
yeah, it's kind of creepy.

824
00:39:56,460 --> 00:39:58,580
Yeah, well, of course, I agree with that, but.

825
00:39:58,580 --> 00:40:00,700
We have a lot of, yeah,

826
00:40:00,700 --> 00:40:03,380
the Christian church has a lot of creepy ideas.

827
00:40:03,380 --> 00:40:04,220
Yeah.

828
00:40:04,220 --> 00:40:05,700
That's definitely true.

829
00:40:05,700 --> 00:40:06,540
Yeah.

830
00:40:06,540 --> 00:40:11,540
So Ariel, help me understand how you help people heal from,

831
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:12,940
someone comes to you and says,

832
00:40:12,940 --> 00:40:16,740
hey, I would love your help, how do you help them deconstruct

833
00:40:16,740 --> 00:40:17,580
and heal?

834
00:40:18,460 --> 00:40:22,340
So initially we would do a meditation where we explore

835
00:40:22,340 --> 00:40:24,460
where they have the biggest fears still residing

836
00:40:24,460 --> 00:40:27,300
within their subconscious and in their bodies

837
00:40:27,300 --> 00:40:30,740
and highlight the most important ones,

838
00:40:30,740 --> 00:40:32,540
what they wanna work on the most.

839
00:40:32,540 --> 00:40:36,180
And then we would meet weekly and I teach them

840
00:40:36,180 --> 00:40:40,820
how to track emotions and process them,

841
00:40:40,820 --> 00:40:42,540
run them through an example,

842
00:40:42,540 --> 00:40:44,100
and then we will continue to do so

843
00:40:44,100 --> 00:40:45,780
as they come up in our sessions.

844
00:40:45,780 --> 00:40:47,780
But also they can follow a worksheet

845
00:40:47,780 --> 00:40:50,020
that if they come up with one,

846
00:40:50,020 --> 00:40:53,820
or if something rises in their body while we aren't meeting,

847
00:40:53,820 --> 00:40:56,220
they can kind of jot it down and process through

848
00:40:56,220 --> 00:40:59,300
and see if they can get any insight on their own.

849
00:40:59,300 --> 00:41:02,740
And then when we meet, I also have lessons planned

850
00:41:02,740 --> 00:41:06,060
for the analytical reasons of why,

851
00:41:07,540 --> 00:41:11,740
of the actual concepts within Christianity

852
00:41:11,740 --> 00:41:16,740
that manifest as physical or mental disease in the body.

853
00:41:18,580 --> 00:41:21,380
And so we follow a little bit of neuroscience,

854
00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:25,500
psychology, anatomy, and really get down

855
00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:28,220
to the technical terms so that you can learn

856
00:41:28,220 --> 00:41:30,700
with your analytical mind why this makes sense

857
00:41:30,700 --> 00:41:33,540
and then also be following along somatically

858
00:41:33,540 --> 00:41:36,060
so that we can actually release the programs

859
00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:37,860
that are still there.

860
00:41:37,860 --> 00:41:40,580
So help our listeners understand the differences

861
00:41:40,580 --> 00:41:42,900
between those two.

862
00:41:42,900 --> 00:41:45,380
So analytically, we can know something all day long

863
00:41:45,380 --> 00:41:48,340
in our cognitive, our prefrontal cortex, in our mind.

864
00:41:48,340 --> 00:41:51,380
And we could study a book and we can know something's true,

865
00:41:51,380 --> 00:41:54,980
but until we've actually made our subconscious agree

866
00:41:54,980 --> 00:41:57,580
with that, our body's going to have a chemical reaction

867
00:41:57,580 --> 00:41:59,780
when we hear anything that opposes it.

868
00:41:59,780 --> 00:42:04,100
So if you continue to be triggered by something

869
00:42:04,100 --> 00:42:06,380
when you hear it, it means that some part of you

870
00:42:06,380 --> 00:42:10,500
still on some level might agree with it

871
00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:14,540
or have some unresolved trauma around the concept.

872
00:42:14,540 --> 00:42:17,700
And I was trying to think if I had an example

873
00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:18,940
of the top of my head of something

874
00:42:18,940 --> 00:42:20,180
that I had processed recently,

875
00:42:20,180 --> 00:42:25,180
but nothing is coming up to share.

876
00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:29,020
So you can know something cognitively,

877
00:42:29,020 --> 00:42:30,980
but on a tissue level, you have to teach

878
00:42:30,980 --> 00:42:32,700
the subconscious first and then release

879
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:36,380
whatever stored emotions are stored in the tissues,

880
00:42:36,380 --> 00:42:41,140
the fascia and actually release it from the body as well.

881
00:42:41,140 --> 00:42:45,900
And so how does that come out in the body?

882
00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:49,540
How does someone know they've released

883
00:42:49,540 --> 00:42:51,500
those types of elements in the body?

884
00:42:51,500 --> 00:42:52,660
The fascia, yeah.

885
00:42:52,660 --> 00:42:53,500
Yeah.

886
00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:54,340
Well, specific-

887
00:42:54,340 --> 00:42:57,100
I love the detail of what you're presenting.

888
00:42:57,100 --> 00:43:01,300
Yeah, so sometimes like, if you know what the fascia is,

889
00:43:01,300 --> 00:43:03,620
it's a bioelectric conduit, the connective tissue

890
00:43:03,620 --> 00:43:05,900
in the body, it's that spider webby stuff.

891
00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:08,340
Whatever is in the body has a layer of it.

892
00:43:08,340 --> 00:43:09,740
It connects everything.

893
00:43:09,740 --> 00:43:11,740
And energy in the body is emotion.

894
00:43:11,740 --> 00:43:13,340
So it travels through the fascia.

895
00:43:13,340 --> 00:43:14,860
And when something is too overwhelming

896
00:43:14,860 --> 00:43:17,420
for normal function to keep going as it should,

897
00:43:17,420 --> 00:43:20,940
then proteins surround that and trap it in the fascia.

898
00:43:20,940 --> 00:43:22,820
And then the fascia gets tighter and tighter

899
00:43:22,820 --> 00:43:25,020
as we get older and we don't work through these things.

900
00:43:25,020 --> 00:43:27,060
And that's kind of one of the reasons for stiffness

901
00:43:27,060 --> 00:43:28,940
and uptightness and certain beliefs.

902
00:43:28,940 --> 00:43:31,780
And so that's why in yoga, sometimes you'll be deep

903
00:43:31,780 --> 00:43:33,380
in a stretch and there'll just be tears.

904
00:43:33,380 --> 00:43:35,100
And we're like, why am I crying?

905
00:43:35,100 --> 00:43:36,260
We're like, it doesn't matter.

906
00:43:36,260 --> 00:43:37,980
It's okay, just let it go.

907
00:43:37,980 --> 00:43:38,820
Let it flow.

908
00:43:40,340 --> 00:43:43,700
But if we were even walking through something,

909
00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:44,740
we don't have to be stretching.

910
00:43:44,740 --> 00:43:46,100
We could be walking through an emotion,

911
00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:48,100
walking through a memory and touching it.

912
00:43:48,100 --> 00:43:50,420
If we can hold it for the allotted amount of time

913
00:43:50,420 --> 00:43:53,660
to release it, you could feel tingly like a release,

914
00:43:54,740 --> 00:43:57,540
like a internal somatic shift of,

915
00:43:59,980 --> 00:44:01,900
I just say lightness.

916
00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:04,420
And you'll kind of feel it moving through the body,

917
00:44:04,420 --> 00:44:06,100
oftentimes tears will come

918
00:44:06,100 --> 00:44:08,980
if you have a new perspective on something like,

919
00:44:08,980 --> 00:44:11,700
oh my God, I've been thinking this way this whole time

920
00:44:11,700 --> 00:44:15,620
because of this one incident when I was five years old.

921
00:44:15,620 --> 00:44:17,580
And it's just mind blowing.

922
00:44:17,580 --> 00:44:19,340
Sometimes you'd cry tears of joy,

923
00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:22,980
sometimes tears of sorrow for that part of you

924
00:44:22,980 --> 00:44:24,820
that went through that.

925
00:44:24,820 --> 00:44:27,900
But mostly a somatic shift, sometimes emotions flow,

926
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:31,700
sometimes, I mean, all kinds of emotions can come with it.

927
00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:32,540
Chills.

928
00:44:32,540 --> 00:44:33,380
Yeah.

929
00:44:33,380 --> 00:44:34,620
Now, was this also done

930
00:44:34,620 --> 00:44:37,020
through a certified myofascial therapist?

931
00:44:37,020 --> 00:44:38,900
Cause I've actually had that done

932
00:44:38,900 --> 00:44:40,700
where they're stretching and it's not a fun,

933
00:44:40,700 --> 00:44:43,060
like a little sweetest massage, right?

934
00:44:43,060 --> 00:44:44,460
There's like stretching and then

935
00:44:44,460 --> 00:44:46,220
there's this like level of emotion.

936
00:44:46,220 --> 00:44:49,620
I actually did, like I was like teary.

937
00:44:49,620 --> 00:44:51,300
I didn't even know what the hell was going on,

938
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:53,300
but she said, that's good, right?

939
00:44:53,300 --> 00:44:55,900
And it's like, but is that what you were doing?

940
00:44:55,900 --> 00:44:58,300
Or was this, this is not necessarily

941
00:44:58,300 --> 00:45:00,020
a certified myofascial therapist.

942
00:45:00,020 --> 00:45:02,620
This is like doing, walking through a process,

943
00:45:02,620 --> 00:45:04,580
you're holding that sense, that area,

944
00:45:04,580 --> 00:45:05,820
or you're doing the yoga

945
00:45:05,820 --> 00:45:08,260
and it's just going through those normal processes.

946
00:45:08,260 --> 00:45:10,060
Or do you have to be intentional about it?

947
00:45:10,060 --> 00:45:11,820
And do you work with somebody when you're doing it?

948
00:45:11,820 --> 00:45:14,220
Or is it happening on your own recognizance?

949
00:45:15,460 --> 00:45:17,420
So it can happen under your own cognizance.

950
00:45:17,420 --> 00:45:19,100
And then you can do it through,

951
00:45:19,100 --> 00:45:21,460
there's so many different modalities that do this.

952
00:45:21,460 --> 00:45:25,540
Like that's why my release, fascial release happens.

953
00:45:25,540 --> 00:45:27,820
I was trying, I was blending it with another thing.

954
00:45:27,820 --> 00:45:29,140
What's another thing I've done?

955
00:45:29,140 --> 00:45:31,740
Musc, bio, I don't know, I've done so many things now.

956
00:45:31,740 --> 00:45:33,620
I'm trying to blend in the names together,

957
00:45:33,620 --> 00:45:35,980
but yeah, you can do them through the physical therapies

958
00:45:35,980 --> 00:45:38,060
with somebody who's certified in those things.

959
00:45:38,060 --> 00:45:39,340
You can do it through stretching.

960
00:45:39,340 --> 00:45:40,780
You should, you can do it through meditation.

961
00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:43,060
You can do it through, a clairvoyant healer

962
00:45:43,060 --> 00:45:44,340
can host something for you,

963
00:45:44,340 --> 00:45:46,620
or you can talk your way through things

964
00:45:46,620 --> 00:45:49,180
with a step-by-step process.

965
00:45:49,180 --> 00:45:52,620
There's also EFT tapping to help rewrite the belief.

966
00:45:52,620 --> 00:45:55,860
But yeah, that you could, there's so many ways to do it.

967
00:45:55,860 --> 00:45:57,460
It's actually so fascinating.

968
00:45:57,460 --> 00:45:58,300
It's fascinating.

969
00:46:01,060 --> 00:46:05,580
Ariel, do they know yet biologically or chemically

970
00:46:06,860 --> 00:46:09,540
what causes the proteins to stay in rapid?

971
00:46:12,060 --> 00:46:12,900
On a chemical-

972
00:46:13,940 --> 00:46:17,580
Is that like the biological response to fight or flight,

973
00:46:17,580 --> 00:46:20,220
saying, okay, protected at all costs, or is it,

974
00:46:20,220 --> 00:46:22,660
do they know what causes the proteins to do that?

975
00:46:24,660 --> 00:46:25,500
If you don't, it's okay.

976
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:29,620
No, I just, all I know is that on that aspect,

977
00:46:29,620 --> 00:46:31,820
no, not any more chemically than what I said,

978
00:46:31,820 --> 00:46:35,940
it just to make sure that normal function can continue.

979
00:46:35,940 --> 00:46:39,420
But before, but more than that, no, I don't know.

980
00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:40,260
Okay.

981
00:46:40,260 --> 00:46:42,380
Because I would imagine that's where a lot of our

982
00:46:42,380 --> 00:46:45,860
inflammation comes from, are those protein buildups.

983
00:46:45,860 --> 00:46:49,420
Because it's, I think what most people suffer from

984
00:46:49,420 --> 00:46:52,140
is reaching a point in their life,

985
00:46:52,140 --> 00:46:54,900
especially mid-life and later, is where you're just like,

986
00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:57,980
okay, I'm good now at ignoring the shit.

987
00:46:59,500 --> 00:47:01,340
And you can get to where, and all of a sudden

988
00:47:01,340 --> 00:47:04,820
you've gained 30 pounds going, I wonder why?

989
00:47:04,820 --> 00:47:08,220
It's easy to transition into that mindset of just

990
00:47:08,220 --> 00:47:10,860
ignorance is sometimes bliss, it's not,

991
00:47:10,860 --> 00:47:13,300
but it feels like it, because you don't have to feel

992
00:47:13,300 --> 00:47:16,100
the negative effects as much by ignoring them.

993
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:20,100
It builds up and then manifests as a physical impairment.

994
00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:23,300
And your body's like, fuck you,

995
00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:25,100
we're gonna deal with this, yeah.

996
00:47:25,100 --> 00:47:27,860
There's a lot of pain in the body with this.

997
00:47:27,860 --> 00:47:31,140
Yeah, it's like, and sometimes I think the body shouts

998
00:47:31,140 --> 00:47:33,700
through what is almost feels like self-sabotage,

999
00:47:33,700 --> 00:47:35,820
where it's like, why the hell did I do that?

1000
00:47:35,820 --> 00:47:37,980
Because that's my body telling me that I've got to,

1001
00:47:37,980 --> 00:47:39,300
I've got to deal with this.

1002
00:47:39,300 --> 00:47:41,620
Your body won't let you keep it forever.

1003
00:47:41,620 --> 00:47:45,780
And if you're not listening, if you're ignoring it,

1004
00:47:45,780 --> 00:47:47,580
your body is gonna do something

1005
00:47:47,580 --> 00:47:49,220
that's gonna get your attention.

1006
00:47:50,140 --> 00:47:52,460
So part of your-

1007
00:47:52,460 --> 00:47:54,420
Can we stop and save?

1008
00:47:54,420 --> 00:47:56,100
I'm down to a sliver and I wanna make sure-

1009
00:47:56,100 --> 00:47:59,020
So if we lose you, we'll just deal with it

1010
00:47:59,020 --> 00:48:00,460
in the recording, okay?

1011
00:48:00,460 --> 00:48:01,500
Awesome.

1012
00:48:01,500 --> 00:48:05,820
Ariel, I wanted to ask, because it's a central part

1013
00:48:05,820 --> 00:48:08,940
of what I believe is, have you ever heard

1014
00:48:08,940 --> 00:48:10,900
of Dr. Hawkins' consciousness scale?

1015
00:48:14,020 --> 00:48:15,500
I don't think so.

1016
00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:18,580
Okay, so in it, it's a scale of zero to 1000

1017
00:48:18,580 --> 00:48:22,380
that measures the frequency of your body at any point.

1018
00:48:22,380 --> 00:48:26,900
And zero to 200 are all negative experiences

1019
00:48:26,900 --> 00:48:28,780
and 200 is courage.

1020
00:48:30,940 --> 00:48:34,740
What do you think looking back gave you the courage

1021
00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:39,340
to take that risk with your coach?

1022
00:48:40,420 --> 00:48:44,620
Because his theory is that once you get over it, courage,

1023
00:48:44,620 --> 00:48:46,900
the rest is all positive.

1024
00:48:46,900 --> 00:48:50,020
And it seems like that was really a pivotal point

1025
00:48:50,020 --> 00:48:54,780
where you stopped and dealt with the stored negative energy

1026
00:48:54,780 --> 00:48:56,660
and it really had a profound effect.

1027
00:48:56,660 --> 00:48:59,540
But what is it that made you finally say,

1028
00:49:00,580 --> 00:49:02,180
I've gotta deal with this?

1029
00:49:02,180 --> 00:49:03,700
Because I think that's what a lot of people

1030
00:49:03,700 --> 00:49:05,780
are really struggling with in life is,

1031
00:49:05,780 --> 00:49:09,420
how do I develop the courage to finally deal with this?

1032
00:49:10,460 --> 00:49:13,060
It began when my daughter was born

1033
00:49:13,060 --> 00:49:18,060
and I refused to give her the mindsets that I had developed

1034
00:49:18,060 --> 00:49:20,460
and how I had grown up with.

1035
00:49:20,460 --> 00:49:22,740
And from then on, it was,

1036
00:49:23,620 --> 00:49:25,700
we're going to do it what it takes,

1037
00:49:25,700 --> 00:49:27,260
no matter how hard it is.

1038
00:49:29,100 --> 00:49:31,300
But it was definitely not linear

1039
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:33,780
and all positive experiences from there.

1040
00:49:33,780 --> 00:49:35,420
There was a very- It never is, yeah.

1041
00:49:35,420 --> 00:49:39,820
Yeah, a lot of ups and downs, but always worth it.

1042
00:49:41,660 --> 00:49:42,500
I think it's great.

1043
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:46,540
I mean, Jonathan, this is the chicken with the egg, right?

1044
00:49:46,540 --> 00:49:49,260
We get to a place where we basically say

1045
00:49:49,260 --> 00:49:51,060
we fake it till we make it, right?

1046
00:49:51,060 --> 00:49:53,340
And we're like, okay, because I dug down inside,

1047
00:49:53,340 --> 00:49:55,940
I'm saying the words, I'm a millionaire,

1048
00:49:55,940 --> 00:49:59,100
or I've overcome this hurdle and you're projecting that,

1049
00:49:59,100 --> 00:50:01,500
even though you don't really believe it necessarily.

1050
00:50:01,500 --> 00:50:02,820
We think there's even magic in that,

1051
00:50:02,820 --> 00:50:04,180
but to have an external catalyst,

1052
00:50:04,180 --> 00:50:05,460
I think that that's also true.

1053
00:50:05,460 --> 00:50:07,420
That's the thing we talk about.

1054
00:50:07,420 --> 00:50:12,420
Do we create our own existence, our own experience?

1055
00:50:12,660 --> 00:50:15,300
And to me, when we look at Neo in the Matrix,

1056
00:50:15,300 --> 00:50:17,940
I believe that he was always looking for something,

1057
00:50:17,940 --> 00:50:20,220
but Morpheus came in and helped him.

1058
00:50:20,220 --> 00:50:21,380
I thought Morpheus was the first one-

1059
00:50:21,380 --> 00:50:23,100
And Trinity revealed it too.

1060
00:50:23,100 --> 00:50:24,020
Well, that's true.

1061
00:50:24,020 --> 00:50:25,580
But Morpheus was looking for him,

1062
00:50:25,580 --> 00:50:27,180
and Trinity with the love connection

1063
00:50:27,180 --> 00:50:28,820
made him know what was going on.

1064
00:50:28,820 --> 00:50:30,860
It was still external to him.

1065
00:50:30,860 --> 00:50:32,540
And that's why I like your story,

1066
00:50:32,540 --> 00:50:35,180
because maybe you'll go back in time

1067
00:50:35,180 --> 00:50:38,980
and you'll see something happen in your own mind

1068
00:50:38,980 --> 00:50:41,820
that made that, and you can cause your own self

1069
00:50:41,820 --> 00:50:44,420
to be the person that did that instead of your daughter.

1070
00:50:44,420 --> 00:50:46,380
But I still like believing that.

1071
00:50:46,380 --> 00:50:50,020
I still believe that there's guardian angels,

1072
00:50:50,020 --> 00:50:51,860
there's the divine that wants to help us,

1073
00:50:51,860 --> 00:50:53,980
whatever it is in the cosmos,

1074
00:50:53,980 --> 00:50:56,940
that I think it's helping us to become more awake right now.

1075
00:50:56,940 --> 00:50:58,220
I don't know if you've talked to people

1076
00:50:58,220 --> 00:50:59,980
who feel like they're waking up a little bit,

1077
00:50:59,980 --> 00:51:01,500
they're looking around and they're saying,

1078
00:51:01,500 --> 00:51:04,260
okay, this is a little bit of a shell here.

1079
00:51:04,260 --> 00:51:06,660
And friends in the church,

1080
00:51:06,660 --> 00:51:08,500
or things you've been told by the government,

1081
00:51:08,500 --> 00:51:10,780
people are starting to wake up and see this.

1082
00:51:10,780 --> 00:51:12,820
And I don't know if that's something cosmic

1083
00:51:12,820 --> 00:51:15,180
that's doing it or it's just something internal.

1084
00:51:15,180 --> 00:51:17,660
And Jonathan, I think you're still always under the belief,

1085
00:51:17,660 --> 00:51:21,460
we create our own destiny, if you would, right?

1086
00:51:21,460 --> 00:51:22,540
Is that, are you still,

1087
00:51:22,540 --> 00:51:25,180
do you believe in externalities to kind of come in

1088
00:51:25,180 --> 00:51:27,980
and help out or do you believe that we cause our own,

1089
00:51:27,980 --> 00:51:30,940
you know, deity, if you would?

1090
00:51:30,940 --> 00:51:32,540
Let me answer it a different way.

1091
00:51:32,540 --> 00:51:34,420
Victor Frankl wrote in his book, Night,

1092
00:51:34,420 --> 00:51:37,380
one of the most amazing books I've ever read, he says,

1093
00:51:38,340 --> 00:51:40,060
the people who survived Auschwitz

1094
00:51:40,060 --> 00:51:42,420
were those who created a catalyst outside themselves,

1095
00:51:42,420 --> 00:51:45,500
because I think in the moment of death and suffering,

1096
00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:49,540
or death and chaos, we don't often know

1097
00:51:49,540 --> 00:51:50,780
how to fight for ourselves,

1098
00:51:50,780 --> 00:51:52,060
but it's easier to fight for someone

1099
00:51:52,060 --> 00:51:53,420
we believe is worth loving.

1100
00:51:54,420 --> 00:51:56,100
And so we project it outward

1101
00:51:56,100 --> 00:51:58,140
because we don't know how to do it inward.

1102
00:51:58,140 --> 00:51:59,500
And by projecting it outward,

1103
00:51:59,500 --> 00:52:01,740
we develop enough courage to do it

1104
00:52:01,740 --> 00:52:04,820
and then eventually turn it back on ourselves.

1105
00:52:04,820 --> 00:52:06,380
And I think that's what you did, Ariel,

1106
00:52:06,380 --> 00:52:09,700
is you saw it in your daughter and said, well,

1107
00:52:09,700 --> 00:52:11,460
because I asked the same questions.

1108
00:52:11,460 --> 00:52:14,420
I learned to love my kids before I learned to love myself.

1109
00:52:15,340 --> 00:52:16,180
Yeah.

1110
00:52:16,180 --> 00:52:17,100
But by loving my kids,

1111
00:52:17,100 --> 00:52:20,740
I realized maybe I could love myself.

1112
00:52:20,740 --> 00:52:22,180
Yeah. That was my trajectory.

1113
00:52:22,180 --> 00:52:24,620
And I think yours seems similar,

1114
00:52:24,620 --> 00:52:28,660
is you found the love for your daughter was real.

1115
00:52:28,660 --> 00:52:31,140
I don't know if you then turned it back, but I'm sure,

1116
00:52:31,140 --> 00:52:34,460
I mean, when did it sort of click in for you?

1117
00:52:35,420 --> 00:52:38,220
I just, I think within the few months of her being alive

1118
00:52:38,220 --> 00:52:40,900
and always staring at her and watching this innocent thing

1119
00:52:40,900 --> 00:52:45,020
and how pure she was and that the only way,

1120
00:52:45,020 --> 00:52:47,100
the ways of the world were going to sneak in

1121
00:52:47,100 --> 00:52:49,140
and hurt her was through me.

1122
00:52:49,140 --> 00:52:51,300
And knowing that in those moments,

1123
00:52:51,300 --> 00:52:55,460
I knew that everything needed to be questioned.

1124
00:52:58,100 --> 00:52:58,940
Love it.

1125
00:52:59,820 --> 00:53:01,020
That's awesome.

1126
00:53:01,020 --> 00:53:03,980
So we're gonna close the show,

1127
00:53:03,980 --> 00:53:05,740
but, and Rich, I'll give you a chance

1128
00:53:05,740 --> 00:53:07,100
to ask a final question.

1129
00:53:07,100 --> 00:53:12,100
Errol, if you were to meet someone and they,

1130
00:53:13,020 --> 00:53:15,660
they just wanted sort of a meaningful reason

1131
00:53:15,660 --> 00:53:17,660
to begin the deconstruction process,

1132
00:53:17,660 --> 00:53:18,940
what would you tell them?

1133
00:53:29,980 --> 00:53:31,540
I think that they would know,

1134
00:53:31,540 --> 00:53:34,620
and only they could decide if that was the process

1135
00:53:34,620 --> 00:53:35,740
they were ready for.

1136
00:53:35,740 --> 00:53:40,740
So I could never convince someone if to take that step.

1137
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:47,700
It's just a knowing somatic that something's not okay

1138
00:53:49,300 --> 00:53:51,100
and I want it to be okay.

1139
00:53:52,100 --> 00:53:53,700
And I'm allowed to be okay.

1140
00:53:53,700 --> 00:53:55,100
I'm allowed to be well.

1141
00:53:56,940 --> 00:53:57,780
Yeah.

1142
00:53:58,660 --> 00:54:00,460
I guess my question would be,

1143
00:54:00,460 --> 00:54:05,260
do you think there's hope for Christianity

1144
00:54:05,260 --> 00:54:06,700
and organized religions,

1145
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:09,060
or does it have to be totally deconstructed

1146
00:54:09,060 --> 00:54:11,820
and some kind of new process needs to take place?

1147
00:54:11,820 --> 00:54:13,540
And what's your opinion in terms of

1148
00:54:14,940 --> 00:54:16,940
knowing what you know and what we've talked about today,

1149
00:54:16,940 --> 00:54:19,300
what's the best path forward, I guess?

1150
00:54:22,780 --> 00:54:26,780
Eliminating the rules of spirituality.

1151
00:54:26,780 --> 00:54:28,740
I mean, that they've applied it through religion.

1152
00:54:28,740 --> 00:54:33,740
The only way you get to your own path of free exploration

1153
00:54:33,740 --> 00:54:35,820
is through the freedom of choice

1154
00:54:35,820 --> 00:54:39,540
and the ability to follow the intuitive drive.

1155
00:54:39,540 --> 00:54:41,340
And we can't do that if we're following

1156
00:54:41,340 --> 00:54:46,340
any mainstream head guru or priest.

1157
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:50,820
Ariel, here's how I would say it.

1158
00:54:50,820 --> 00:54:52,660
Because I'm thinking, I want to say it exactly

1159
00:54:52,660 --> 00:54:54,060
what you said in a different way,

1160
00:54:54,060 --> 00:54:56,900
which is all the church has to do

1161
00:54:56,900 --> 00:54:58,220
if it wants to get serious,

1162
00:54:58,220 --> 00:55:01,660
is embrace the reality of how far grace goes.

1163
00:55:01,660 --> 00:55:04,380
Because what grace does is it completely obliterates it.

1164
00:55:04,380 --> 00:55:05,980
It says there's only one law,

1165
00:55:05,980 --> 00:55:09,460
and that's the laws love you and everybody else.

1166
00:55:09,460 --> 00:55:10,300
That's it.

1167
00:55:10,300 --> 00:55:13,340
You follow that, you get all the freedom,

1168
00:55:13,340 --> 00:55:15,300
but all the responsibility.

1169
00:55:16,220 --> 00:55:17,900
And so Ariel, I love that.

1170
00:55:17,900 --> 00:55:20,340
I think that was a fantastic way to end.

1171
00:55:20,340 --> 00:55:22,020
You have been a fantastic guest.

1172
00:55:22,020 --> 00:55:23,820
Thank you for coming on.

1173
00:55:23,820 --> 00:55:26,340
I wish you the absolute best in what you're doing

1174
00:55:26,340 --> 00:55:29,980
to influence people to begin the deconstruction process.

1175
00:55:29,980 --> 00:55:32,180
Because we're not asking people to give up,

1176
00:55:34,460 --> 00:55:36,380
we're asking people to give up the worst

1177
00:55:36,380 --> 00:55:39,300
of what has kept humanity down.

1178
00:55:39,300 --> 00:55:41,260
And I think you're way ahead of a lot of people,

1179
00:55:41,260 --> 00:55:43,500
so I wish you the very best.

1180
00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:44,740
Rich, any final words?

1181
00:55:44,740 --> 00:55:47,340
No, I have a little pleasure wishing you the best

1182
00:55:47,340 --> 00:55:50,620
in your journey, and let's hope for healing going forward.

1183
00:55:50,620 --> 00:55:52,860
This country needs it a lot, the world does,

1184
00:55:52,860 --> 00:55:54,780
and we need better voices.

1185
00:55:54,780 --> 00:55:56,020
So thank you so much.

1186
00:55:56,020 --> 00:55:57,180
Absolutely, thank you.

1187
00:55:57,180 --> 00:56:00,180
Thank you for having me on.

1188
00:56:00,180 --> 00:56:02,380
All right, this has been another fantastic episode

1189
00:56:02,380 --> 00:56:03,580
of Living in the Matrix.

1190
00:56:03,580 --> 00:56:05,260
I wanna thank Ariel for joining us.

1191
00:56:05,260 --> 00:56:07,140
Rich, thank you.

1192
00:56:07,140 --> 00:56:08,940
Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend.

1193
00:56:08,940 --> 00:56:10,220
It's hot out there.

1194
00:56:10,220 --> 00:56:12,740
No matter where you're at, it seems like heat's everywhere.

1195
00:56:12,740 --> 00:56:15,580
So have a wonderful weekend.

1196
00:56:15,580 --> 00:56:16,420
Much love, everybody.

1197
00:56:16,420 --> 00:56:31,420
So let's get started.