I'm Jonathan and I'm left of center.
And I'm Rich and I tend to lean a little bit more to the right.
But the bottom line is, is together we try to look for the balance
of what it means to be human in today's world.
All right. Welcome to Living in the Matrix, everyone.
I'm Jonathan. This is my co-host Rich. Say hello, Rich.
Hey, everybody. Happy Friday and happy pre-Fathers Day weekend
for all you fathers or people who have been here because of a father,
which I think makes 99.9% of us.
Happy Father's Day. Great to be here.
Yeah. Father's Day is this weekend. My kids...
Can you bring it?
It's an awesome thing to be a father.
So today we have a guest. His name is Chris King.
Chris has a unique story of this constant process of overcoming
significant adversity and really kind of...
He chose to abandon a lucrative career and instead pursue something
that he felt was transforming his life and ended up in a space
where he's the witch doctor to guide people in unlocking their potential
and achieving the extraordinary.
I think this is going to be a fabulous conversation.
Chris, welcome.
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.
Absolutely. So yours is a story of overcoming adversity.
Why don't you give us the setup so people understand where you're coming from
and kind of like where did you start and how did you get to here?
Well, most of the adversity was self-imposed.
I have a unique propensity for shooting myself in the foot.
I can't say that I'm a victim of anything.
I will say this much. I grew up in a very privileged neighborhood
in a very scary house and my eldest sister died when she was 11
and so I was raised in the wake of that.
And so it was a house of grief and rage and abuse and addiction
and I built my life on those pillars.
As you can imagine, it doesn't work so well.
So I had to decode and recode my entire operating system
and learn how to recalibrate myself to a completely different life.
Wow. So let's start with the obvious question.
How do you decode and recode?
Because that's a great concept. We talked about it a lot.
Break it down how you did it.
Yeah, there's, I mean, the first thing you got to under see, there's awareness, right?
You got to become aware.
Now, the awareness starts with just take a look at your outer reality, right?
Because your outer reality is going to reflect to you your inner experience
and everything that you believe, that you really believe, consciously or otherwise.
So when I looked at my outer reality and I was like, oh, let's see, okay,
I've got addiction issues, I've been divorced a couple of times,
I, you know, launch careers, do pretty well and then completely trash them.
I do the same with relationships.
Like taking an honest look without judgment, without shame,
without telling myself I'm a piece of shit or whatever, being very, just an analytical,
here's the reality and the end result of my physical world reality,
that's going to give me a pretty good indicator of what I think and believe.
Yeah. I mean, what you're talking about, we've had, you know, neuroscientists on,
there's this idea where people could be really successful.
We talk about golfers a lot who get to that pinnacle and they just implode, right?
They're on the edge of a precipice of breaking through and they don't.
There's something that draws them back and obviously it's themselves
because they can be crushing it and they can be 10 strokes ahead of everybody,
like a Jordan Spieth, for instance, right?
And then you watch Full 10 Cup happen at Masters, right?
So when you're observing this in yourself and you're looking at others
and you see people that are always up at that higher level
but they never really fully break through,
what do you think are some of the root causes and how would you suggest,
you've overcome them?
If you can, I mean, are you actually noticing this coming again?
You're seeing it, you're about ready to get there and all of a sudden
something triggers in you.
Tell us how that experience happens when you've actually fallen
and maybe how you're able to overcome falling the next time around.
That's a great question I'd like to ask.
Okay. So getting to that point on the precipice of success
and then tanking the whole thing.
I'm going to sound like a lawyer here.
It depends.
So because we're talking about a personal individual reality
that was created by a personal individual belief system
and so it's going to be personal and individual to anybody.
There may be some consistent patterns or maybe some similarities,
but it could be any number of things.
It could be a self-sabotage thing because there's an unconscious belief
that I don't deserve it.
It could be a self-concept issue where I just can't see myself
at that level of success.
I don't understand who that person is in that reality.
So I mean, there's so many answers to that question.
I don't know that I could say that this is the thing,
which in my work, very rare can we say this is the thing.
It's going to be wildly different, human team to team, business to business.
So I mean, when you think about somebody who did overcome,
let's say the Roger Bannister mile, the four mile run, right?
So huge, everybody talks about this, right?
So happened to this time prior, nobody had broken four minutes in a mile.
And he came together, he actually had a team, he had a pacer,
he had multiple people.
And you hear the story about how once he overcame that,
then all of a sudden you saw more and more and more.
56 people did it the next year.
Yeah.
So I don't know if that's called the collective unconscious
or like what Carl Jung might talk about.
But in that particular example, it did appear that there were some patterns
that people were able to overcome.
So I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if you're a coach,
it would be really good to see the patterns that people go through
and be able to identify their own unique situations.
Like, okay, this guy's definitely suffering from don't deserve it syndrome.
This guy's suffering from, or this gal's suffering from,
haven't ever visualized it, right?
And I think a lot of women, this is what a lot of women struggle for,
because sometimes when you're working for them to break the glass ceiling,
for instance, and get into upper levels of, let's say, leadership or et cetera,
they always have to become inauthentic.
They can't even be their own selves.
They've got to feel like they belong with the boys.
So have you seen circumstances, situations, if you would, where...
Yeah.
I think if I boil it down to one thing, and I'll say 80% of our,
the tenures of this organization, 80% of our clientele have been women.
That's good.
So ultimately, if there's a thread, and while men and women are wildly different,
including in this work, I would say that if there is a common theme
through all of these things, it's going to be that you create
the reality of your understanding.
Like, if you believe it to be this way, you will see it that way,
you will drive it that way.
People say, seeing is believing.
Wrong.
Believing is seeing, hence the banister thing, right?
That's, you know, collective consciousness changed, so everything changed.
Now, if I want to get really kind of, somewhere straddle the line
between Wu and science, when you start to believe something,
something happens, A, in your psychology, B, in your neurochemistry,
and C, in your energy field.
You start, and this is where I'm going to say Wu,
vibrating at a different frequency, right?
And so you start to move into the frequency of the person who did it
simply by starting to believe it can be done, right?
You're already making a shift in your field.
So I would say if there's any one thing to all of the things that you mentioned,
like, you know, where I say it's wildly different person to person,
if there is a common theme, it's going to be,
they are going to create the reality of their understanding
and belief to that point.
Yeah, and I think that's part of the awareness process is you've got to first discover
that you can even change the pattern.
Most people...
You don't have to discover it.
You just got to be dumb enough to think you can.
I've done things in my life that just can't be done, you know?
And it's because I was smart enough to do it,
I was driven enough to do it, and dumb enough to think that I actually could.
So when you're in that position of thinking you're...
Well, let's take an example of being homeless or destitute, right?
We have a returning guest on our podcast who was raped between the ages of 9 and 14,
incarcerated, and he ends up telling us that he created those instances for himself
through nonlinear time, right?
He, in his own mind, was able to create those things.
He's not blaming anybody.
He's not the victim in that case.
He's actually the creator of those experiences so that he can actually draw from them.
It's mind-blowing, right, in that regard.
But let me ask you on a specific example.
You're homeless, Venice Beach, Jim Morrison's nowhere to be found because he's dead.
But you're there.
How do you say, okay, how the hell did I get here and how the hell am I getting out?
Well, again, my not having a place to live was chosen, right?
Because I just didn't want to do the soul-sucking life kind of thing.
And so it wasn't like, you know, I wasn't a military vet or there's not a mental illness thing,
although, you know, my ex-girlfriends might disagree.
So it's going to depend on what that individual, how they got there.
But what you are saying and what he, your previous guest is saying is that he understands that he is,
in fact, the sole creator of his reality.
And this does have to do with our thoughts, our feelings, our actions and all those things.
It has to do with our energy field.
And it does have to do with what we believe.
And so if I found myself in a very uncomfortable situation,
the point where I thought, oh, dear God, this is really how it ends.
And I was in a dark parking lot underground with a very scary individual.
And I thought, this is it.
And it took me a good 20, 25 minutes to talk this guy off the ledge and keep him from killing me.
And I was it was such an energetic violation.
And I spent a good couple of weeks, like really, I mean, pissed off, angry, you know, just that that sense of being violated in a way.
And, you know, thank God nothing happened.
But I had to look through the lens of how did I bring this into my reality?
How did how did this physical world reality manifest?
But you don't have to get into a scary situation to do this for yourself.
OK, if you're driving around town and three or four people cut you off in a span of 15 minutes, ask yourself, why is this in my field?
Like anything that happens to you that you don't like, why is this in my field?
As soon as you ask that question, as soon as you as soon as you think that question, you will hear the answer.
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah, a lot of people don't. I think the concept of attraction and understanding like we're huge fans of Dr.
Hawkins with a consciousness scale.
I've been following him for about 15 years and that concept of I can change my vibration.
Most people don't even know it exists.
They live in a very Newtonian world. This is everything is fixed.
You're caused by your genes, you know, and the world is really shifting in terms of its awareness that no, no, no, no.
There's actually something called neuroplasticity.
Let's do and how do I raise my vibration?
I think the world is waking up to that.
How did you discover that for yourself?
How did you become aware?
I think I've always kind of had a sense of it.
I don't I don't know that I don't know the answer to that question.
So you didn't have a moment where you became aware of what you didn't know before?
Well, I'm a systems guy.
Like at the end of the day, everything is a system.
And, you know, my old man, he's an electromagnetic compatibility engineer.
He never went to college. He barely graduated high school.
And that's the career he built.
And so talk about a systems guy. I mean, he's like an uber propeller head. Right.
But everything is is energy and physics.
And so it's so the idea that things are really fixed.
It just doesn't really make a lot of sense when you see people that have miraculous recoveries when Western medicine is like, you're going to be dead in a week or something.
And so so there is a sort of an obviousness to the bending of reality.
Do you think most people go ahead, gentlemen?
Sorry, Chris, do you think most people are actually aware of that, though?
The way you are.
I don't know. I would say some people probably resist the idea, because when we when we start having these conversations, there's there's a cost to all of this.
And, you know, the cost to getting what you really want or making significant changes in your life, it all boils down to personal responsibility.
You just can't offload responsibility for anything if you're going to create the more responsibility that you accept, the more empowered you are to affect everything.
And personal responsibility is in short supply.
And that's apparent to you. You just kind of always thought that way.
Well, my father was big on that. You know, even as a kid, he would say, you know, I'd say something like, you know, my friend, Matthew, pissed me off or something.
And he'd be like, Matthew doesn't make you mad. That's that's that's a function of control.
Like, nobody controls you. You know, that makes sense.
You know, Dan was was aware. That's cool. Dan was pretty aware. Yeah.
I mean, he went through his his his journey was difficult.
So but, you know, through the difficult journey, you learn a lot.
And so while even when I was too young to really understand what he was talking about, you know, we didn't talk baseball growing up, he was him being the engineer that he was.
He wanted to talk quantum mechanics and string theory and subatomic physics.
And so we didn't talk baseball, you know, and he would he would bring a lot of concepts that, you know, at the time, I couldn't really grasp.
But I think it planted enough seeds to where I was able to figure things out or hook into it later.
That's great that you got this. I mean, what's funny about it is because it's an intellectual understanding based on what he was telling you.
And yet it goes into the space. Right.
When we start talking about quantum entanglement, we start talking about the unified field.
That's where it's called theoretical physics for a reason. Right.
And a lot of pure scientists, you know, materialists might not even go that far. Right.
But I guess what I'm getting at is, I mean, I think, you know, Stephen King even brought this up in a book, The Stand.
And he kind of talked about the idea that we're all basically psychic.
We have this ability. It's just that it's been taken from us. Right.
So I think each one has this. He says, like, if you miss it, like the people that didn't get on that airplane, for instance, I don't know if that was fate or not.
Let's say, you know, the day the music died and they didn't go crashing.
There's something about not being on an empty plane.
There's things about that we can, I think, start to realize when we look around and go, my God, this has been happening more than I can imagine.
There's got to be something going on here. How do you lean into that?
And I think this is what The Awakened we're seeing. We're seeing people saying, hey, UAPs, you know, potentially interdimensional people. Right.
We're talking about is, you know, God the same thing as the unified field.
If there is this source of unity that is a divine creation, then let's not cause let's not have enemies with Richard Dawkins and, you know, the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Let's all get together and say, hey, I think we're actually talking about the same thing here.
And I think that's hopefully going where we're starting to realize, hey, guys, Gaza, you know, Israel and, you know, Rome, we're all worshiping the same God.
Right. And he's the father of Abraham, you know, all these things.
So I think the biggest changes that we need to start feeling that more.
And some of us need to lean into it. I'm a head guy.
Jonathan's the hard guy in this conversation, but I've been trying so hard with the last not trying, but trying to meditate and get into that heart.
And I've been finding it's been very helpful and a powerful source of intuition and just even attractiveness that I never even had before.
Right. So anyway, I mean, you know, arose by any other name.
Right. Call it consciousness, call it God, call it physics, call it what I like.
You know, we could very likely be talking about the same thing through different lenses and a different understanding.
But the thing itself is, you know, very likely the same.
Yes. The one in the seven. Yeah.
What it is and how it works. Exactly. We have different differing opinions. Right.
But it's like we're probably talking about the same thing. Yeah.
What do you do? Let me, Rich, let me ask question.
What do you do for a living? Part of what we were looking at is what do you mean by empowering success in real estate?
So, well, I mean, the real estate is just kind of one place that we because we're we're basically industry agnostic. You know, we work in tech.
We work in I mean, there's only a couple of industries that we sort of steer clear. We don't do a lot of work with legal.
What do you do? The way the industry is set up like the law is set up as an industry.
But like I said, I'm basically a systems hacker. Everything is a system, a company, a team, a person is a system.
And any system can be hacked and recalibrated, recoded if you understand how that system works.
And when you recode a human system or a team, you can produce a different outcome.
But I'll tell you, the more poetic way that it's been phrased and this is why, you know, one of my clients, you know, I've been called the executive witch doctor.
I've been called the human tuning fork. I was once called the spiritual corkscrew, which I thought was really funny.
But the way that I look at it now is every human life or team or organization, there's a purpose for its existence.
And that purpose is like this incredible piece of sheet music that has never been played before.
And that team or company or person is the perfect instrument to play that music.
My job is to get that instrument in tune and keep it there.
Yeah. Jonathan, wasn't there a Rob Bell, Numa video that talked about that with a symphony and just getting the music right?
Getting in tune.
Yeah, getting in tune, right?
I think that it is something that is innate, right?
You've got this person who's got the gifts and you're able to like it's yeah, reverse engineer, biohack, whatever it's called.
You know, there's a variety of ways you could get there and you make it happen.
Can you give us an example of someone where you found somebody who was destitute or just broken and sad and you were able to tap into something you saw that they had really good.
Potential of it. You know, use the example sheet music.
But can you give me an example of a client you worked with that you actually yeah, OK.
Yeah, we own right now.
Still working with her.
She's got a marketing company in Dallas and she hired us for standard business performance, that kind of thing.
Grow the business, what have you.
But she had a lot of other stuff going on.
So if I run down the checkboxes here, she was she was married for I think it was 26 years. It was a 28 year relationship, but she was married for 26 years to a clinical narcissist.
And I know we throw that word around a lot today, but I feel like the real deal clinical narcissist.
We got the divorce done, signed, sealed and delivered.
We got her the house in the divorce.
We got the house refinanced.
We got her off of her anti anxiety, anti depression medication.
She dropped 45 pounds.
She gained one dog.
She moved 13 times in the span of the engagement.
And while all this was going on, we more than doubled her business.
This took 13 months.
Well, what with so there's a lot of externals in her particular situation, right?
These are all externalities to herself.
Although being overweight a little bit is probably not.
The meds were internalized, but she was probably told by somebody externally, get on these SSRIs if you would.
So what? What did you see that that you know, the diamond in the rough about her and how what was about her?
What was that one or two things that came through that resilience, you know, gumption, you know, just I mean, what was about her that you were able to tap into?
I mean, you pulled a lot of strings, right?
You moved a lot of things around and you got this perfect environment.
But what in her particularly were you able to glean from that was so powerful?
Well, it's the power itself.
There's a it's like it's something that I can sense.
I can sense that there's like I can sense what's there and I can sense where it is in sort of like a physical map.
I can like in somebody's body.
Mike, I can feel this here.
You know, I've said this to clients, you know, where I've just been like, OK, here's what you're feeling right now.
And they're like, yeah, that's exactly what I'm feeling.
And it's very specific.
I said, OK, it feels like it feels like a metal punch just right high in your stomach right here between here and here.
And they're like, OK, that's creepy.
Weird. How do you do that?
So it's a feeling thing.
I could feel the power that that was jammed up.
And and it was like for her, it felt like like a lead blanket that was just kind of over her shoulders and the back of her neck and just like pressing down.
I have another client. She's she's in quite a situation and still in it, but has a has a child on the planet that she hasn't seen in a couple of years because of courts and things.
The kid's pretty young and she's still dealing with divorce and all the things in her life has been in the shambles.
And she's on the verge of really catastrophic success, like a cat of catapult into success because I can feel the energy there.
It's like there's a density to it.
And there's an incredible power. If you see the movie, if you saw the movie, Joy with Jennifer Lawrence, she's that kind of person.
I mean, I can I can see it. I can feel it.
I'm like, I want to watch this happen. That's gonna be cool.
Chris, what is mind fuckery?
What is it? Why is it so important to what you do?
That was my CMO's idea.
So he you know, we talk about having your mind blown or something like that.
But sometimes and more often than not, you don't need your mind blown. You need it fucked because it's it's about penetrating through the barriers that you don't know are there to unlock the thing that you don't know you have.
And it really is kind of giving birth to something.
So if you can, if you can, if I can, if anybody can go in there, it's a very invasive thing to go in there and get all the things out of the way so that this can come forward into the world.
I mean, that's that's essentially what it is, because everything you need is in there.
I don't I don't give clients advice. I don't tell them what to do.
That's not my job. You know, my my job is not to seek the answers because they already have them.
And when they say they don't know something, what they're really saying is I don't have access to it.
So my job isn't to figure it out. My job is to provide the access.
And that's a different thing.
Yeah. Have you ever heard of a show called The Midnight Gospel on Netflix, Chris?
I think I've heard of it, but I don't know anything about it.
You John, we've talked about Midnight Gospel, haven't we?
Oh, it's a psychedelic trip. And literally this guy, it explores different kind of religious constructs, but he literally is out in outer space.
But he goes to this big vagina, if you would.
And he takes some random drugs and then he opens up his mind to this kind of different reality.
And so the idea of birth and getting mindfucked, if you just look up Midnight Gospel, that theme, I'm thinking your CMO might have thought of that because it does feel like that.
And you think about a lot of these things we go through in terms of rituals and getting reborn and having a new awareness and having almost a new look on life and a catalystic, cathartic moment where you're able to do that.
And I think we're starting to see little microcosms of that happening day by day.
I think a lot of us want to see something that Paul on the road to Damascus, right?
The light and then he changed around from persecuting Christians to becoming one of the greatest apostles.
We want those massive kinds of transcendent experiences.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with, I don't know if you talked about the use of psychedelics at all, but one of the things we've been talking about a lot on the show are how people are starting to wake up with microdosing
and having heavy doses of psilocybin or MDMA to overcome PTSD and anxiety and depression.
And what we're finding is, I don't know if you know about Johns Hopkins, but they did this amazing study out there where you had these stage four cancer patients who had a lot of fear of death and they were given kind of hero's dosages.
And they saw the one, they saw the source and they didn't necessarily, these people mostly agnostic.
So you can imagine why they might be really scared, but they came away with this feeling of cosmic oneness of unity and they lost their fear of death, which is pretty cool.
So, you know, I don't know if you've seen more gradual people, gradual stages of people getting it and refining or, you know, you've got that one thing where you work with them for a year and then the transformation is significant and they don't even look back.
You know, are you seeing a kind of a combination of those scenarios? Yeah, it runs the gamut. Yeah.
There's, you know, sometimes it's that one thing that creates that core flip that changes everything and other times it's more of a slow burn.
But yeah, the psychedelics, I mean, you know, that's, it's really the rule, not the exception in nature.
You know, animals seek out psychedelics as a rule. And it's because, you know, when nature needs to make like an evolutionary jump, it drives animals to seek these substances out because it changes physiologically the way the brain works and divergent thinking and pattern recognition.
And this is how the creative problem solving happens. And so it's, you know, people demonize psychedelics sometimes.
But I think we're starting to get the reality of it is that number one, it's natural and number two, it's actually really effective.
Yeah. I mean, that's a fascinating construct. I mean, obviously we saw, we've seen, I don't know if you've seen this video about lemurs who they rub, they chew on millipedes and they rub it all over their bodies and they go absolutely high.
I guess one of the biological questions, because I'm no biologist, is how does that experience that happens in the brain when they procreate then foster that kind of same oneness throughout other species?
Like maybe you think that happened when our brains evolved and we became, you know, homo erectus or homo sapiens.
Do you feel like that's one of the things that happened along our journey where we experienced, you know, psychedelics?
I mean, that's a good question. I mean, there's, and there's like, it's very interesting when we see unlikely pairings in animals, you know, there's a story about a dog and an elephant.
And then there's the story that they just call BLT, the bear, the lion and the tiger. You know, there's, you know, we see, I just saw a thing today actually about a guy who raised this baby gorilla to the point where they then sent it out into the wild.
And I was like, okay, you know, time to go take care of yourself. And five years later, he went seeking out this gorilla that apparently had been pretty violent and even attacked humans and met him, like found him, met and they reconnected just like this incredible family.
And so there's, it's very interesting, you know, when we see some very unlikely relationships in the animal kingdom. And, you know, I think that's got to, that's got to at least make you raise an eyebrow in terms of what's happening in that animal, not just neuro, neurochemically, neurobiologically, but in its own energy field, right?
Because again, everything is energy. I mean, everything, you know, that if like I'm standing at a desk right now and it feels like solid matter, but that's like 95 something percent empty space, right? It's just compressed energy.
Yeah.
No, and I think with, with respect to like dogs, for instance, they can sense when you're afraid that you giving off a vibration and they actually encourages them more. I've almost never had a really bad experience with a dog. I oftentimes am called like the dog whisperer because when I first visited my wife's parents, you know, they had a chow.
Chows are not very friendly in general towards strangers and they certainly are less friendly towards males, but this dog loved me immediately. They go, okay, you're in.
So, I mean, it's like, I think I love dogs. I see them. I naturally want to touch them and nuzzle them. But we also had a neighbor whose kids were extremely afraid of dogs and the dogs naturally felt that and it just increased the negative vibration, you know, in that regard.
So,
Well, and you do, I mean, there, there is, you know, biologic, you know, biology at work here. You have, you have your, your critter brain, which, you know, needs to immediately assess everything as a threat. You know, you have a gazelle and a lion. The gazelle wants to know, you know, as soon as it sees, are you a gazelle like me? Because then I feel safe or are you a lion? And then I don't. Right. So there's all that processing is still going on.
Yeah.
Chris, what do you mean by redefining reality? Help our listeners understand like that process of, ooh, I can change my reality.
Yeah, you, I mean, it starts with challenging what you think is real and true, because you can, you know, you can say yes, this is true, because and validated across data points throughout your history. And it's like, well, but that doesn't mean it always has to be true. That's, you know, because again, we produce the reality of our understanding. And again, back to the banister principle. It's like, you know, after decades of chasing that record, it lasted like four years.
It lasted like 46 days, you know, so because collective consciousness changed, like I go into an organization and, you know, they're going to want to bring into that first meeting sales trends, KPIs, market trends, whatever.
Like, don't bring that shit to me. It is only going to screw up what I think is possible. Right. So because if you can change what an organization, a team or a person thinks is possible, you can produce way more effective, like much bigger results in a shorter amount of time.
But you need to deal with this at the right end of the spectrum.
Reality is the end result of the system and the physical world reality. Like I mentioned, you know, the solid, you know, compressed energy. This is the last thing that happens.
So physical world reality being the last thing that happens, like, well, where does this start? This starts in our psychology. It starts in our consciousness and our subconsciousness. And it really starts in our energy field.
Right. So, so if let's take somebody that wants to get in shape, lose weight, that kind of thing.
Most people are going to say, okay, I have this physical world reality problem. I'm going to address it at the physical end of the spectrum.
Well, great. Here's the problem with that is that you're starting at the end result and swimming upstream against the flow of how reality unfolds.
And that takes a lot of willpower and it's exhausting. Willpower is an exhaustible resource. Right. But if you start in the energetic, right, and bring this into, into the body, into the brain, into the mind, and through the psychology, blah, blah, blah, through the things, right, then this flows downstream.
Like what I tell people, like whatever you want isn't the goal. You want to lose weight, that's not the goal. You want to grow your business, that's not the goal. You want to find the relationship of your dreams. That's not the goal.
That's the result. Of what is it the result? Now you're starting to look at what the goal really is. Problems are the same way. You know, you got issues in your relationship. You got employee retention problems. That's not the problem. That's the result.
Of what is it the result? That's your problem.
Yeah, no, I can see a lot of power in that. I mean, obviously, clearly you can physiologically show that if you decrease your alcohol consumption, if you do intermittent fasting and you reduce your caloric intake, pure physiological and physical things, you will lose weight.
I think there's nothing denying that. The problem that gets in the way of that is you end up having a cheat meal or a cheat day or a cheat week, and it's tough to do that. I know Jonathan lost over 30 pounds last year on a great, you know, little bit of discipline.
So maybe my question for you is knowing that diets fail, exercise regimens fail, you know, what kind of strategies and ideas are you presenting to help people in their mental ascent, right? To have those energy flows outside of getting to the root cause of why they're getting it done as opposed to just the scale, right?
Because that's obviously not the point. So tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, I mean, starting with your self-concept, you know, I mean, if you identify as a fat guy, you're going to have a real hard time getting in shape.
James Clear actually talks a lot about this in Atomic Habits, you know, I mean, that's a great book for this kind of thing. You know, start, I tell anybody, you know, start like before you spend money, a ton of money on personal training and coaches and whatever.
Like, there's a couple of books out there that address this in the correct way, right? Like any asshole can tell you eat right portion control, like the diet fitness books, like that's not the book you're looking for.
What you're looking for are the books that are addressing what got you to this point, right? Because eating incorrectly was not really the thing. There's something underneath the eating incorrectly, right?
There's a, there's a, there's a mechanism driving that behavior. So you could change the behavior, but if you don't change that mechanism, this ain't gonna work, right? Not sustainably.
Sure. Yeah. Do your clients have a hard time seeing that it's a mechanism as opposed to just something that's intrinsic? Is there a barrier to that or what's your experience there?
My clients are pretty sophisticated and they're coming to me for a reason. There's, there's, there's such a, there's such an amount of trust. You know, it actually astounds me quite a bit that the level of trust that their clients, that our clients are putting, putting us with, you know, it's, it's quite remarkable because they really are, they're telling us everything, they're sharing with us everything and they are trusting us to do for them.
And we're really not doing it. They are, but you know, they're trusting us to make something happen that they themselves aren't even sure, you know, but, but I, we have the tools and the techniques.
Like I can flip that in somebody's mind to get them to where it's just, just maybe, right? Just maybe if I can get them for, there's no way I've tried a thousand times to, oh my God, maybe, just maybe that's all I need. Just as 1% of possibility and I can get it.
The thing I thought of immediately was your client in Dallas who ran a marketing agency and you literally talked about, we did this, we did this, we got the divorce and I'm like, wait a minute. Okay. Rewind. Okay. Did you really, um,
was she already thinking about it? And did you help her get over the edge in that regard? Did you, did you say, Hey, this guy is a absolute narcissist. He cares nothing about you. He's proven this X, Y, Z times. How did you
tell us about that, that particular instance? No, I never tell people what is and what they need to do. Um, I say, look, I'm, I'm going to present them some things as if they're fact. I said, they're not fact.
Just, but run it through your filter. Like if it, if it hits you, uh, like truth, I seem to be able to connect with the truth of a human or a team that is different than their truth. And the truth. Yeah.
My truth, we see it. We hear like a lot of the West side hippies here in LA, you know, it's like, it's my truth. I just, I don't really care about your truth because your truth, my truth, these are all about preferences, opinions, right? Um, the truth is a frequency.
And it just lands in your body, you know, and it's, it's, it's like the, the, the note of the key of a piano. It's either in tune or it's not, you know, it's, and there's no debating that. And so when, you know, even when my last relationship ended a couple of years ago, my truth at the time was, you know, I want to stay in this and fix it and figure it out.
But the truth was that it was in both of our highest service to split up because that's where the alchemical process was. This is what's going to actually get us to the next level. Um, and that's the great thing about the truth is it doesn't give a shit about your opinions.
Well, you're right. And the ego, right? So again, if both of you look back on the separation as being beneficial mutually, and you can look at each other and respect and almost give a high five.
Yeah, we really do. I mean, we're incredible friends now. I can, I can, I can see that. Um, so yeah, so that's, but with her, with other clients as well, I'm just saying, here's what you're telling me. And, and, you know, if I, I can pick up on somebody's frequency pretty quickly.
I mean, give them about five minutes and save space. They're going to give me everything I need. And so once I, once I have calibrated myself to their magnetic north.
Well, now I'm cooking with gas.
Nice.
I've got, you know, something a little more practical, right? So a lot of our people on our podcast have written books, right? We've had people who have been what we call Christian universalists, which believe, you know, that Christ is going to reconcile everybody.
There's hell for a lot of people, but guess what? God's going to bring everybody together. So we've got a few people who wrote books on that, other types of, you know, kind of psychology and stuff like that.
And we've actually even encouraged people to buy books. So, um, in your mind, you know, as people are walking through this, in addition to potentially thinking of you as a potential, you know, um, coach life coach, you know, solution, a lot of the problems, anything that comes to mind for you, like maybe top three books.
Listen, this helped me on my journey. We already mentioned atomic habits. We already talked a little bit about, you know, a construct like the banister mile, um, anything that you'd suggest in terms of books or reading material or things that they should really embrace to help them on their journey.
Yeah. I mean, it depends on what they're, what they're working with and where, where are they on the map right now? Um, you know, there are, there are, I guess there are a handful of books that I would say this is like required reading to be a human. Um, so the alchemist, I think, you know, this, this, this, this, this question kind of generates those softball answers like, um, so this is going to be Michael Singer with, um, uh, uh, untethered soul, right?
That's on there. Um, you know, I've done a ton of men's work and so I think it's advantageous to read something like iron john or king warrior, magician lover. Um, and I do, I recommend, you know, following the stoics, right? Marcus Aurelius or, you know, read the obstacle is the way or, you know, things like that.
Um, so it's just sort of depends on where you want to apply it. Yeah, it sounds, but those, those I've seen a lot of, there's a lot more trajectory in those regards. You see on Twitter and a lot of places, the stoicism coming through a lot of, um, carnivore guys on there, people trying to bring back masculinity, strong masculinity that, that also isn't just toxic. Right. So, I mean, obviously even though majority of your clientele are women, I mean, what are your thoughts in terms of, um, are we seeing the pendulum swing back to the right direction?
I mean, I think the pendulum swing back from the average, um, dad being, um, Homer Simpson or Al Bundy, you know, and married with children, which is, I mean, if you watched Hollywood over the last 20, 30 years, I mean, to watch, you know, a show that has a loving male female relationship, happy kids is it's like ancient history.
Right. I mean, like American beauty, the only two normal people in that movie were the gay guys next door and everybody else was just an absolute shit show of a mess. Right. And so that was like, all right. That's, is that a reality? So what do you think about? Did you feel like there's, there's a movement back? Well, hey, listen, it's good to be masculine. It's good to have these kinds of positive energies without going on opposite side. And what are your thoughts on that?
There, there are a couple of things happening. Yes. Is the short answer there. There is a movement back to that. The, you know, the women in my world are like, yes, bring back, bring back the men. Um, the other thing is that there, there's also a backlash, which is not helping men in that we're pretty pissed off with this bullshit. And so there's, there's, there's kind of a, um, there's definitely a, um, a backlash that's, that's happening, which is not supporting us.
Um, but, but if we look at what's happened for, there's no such thing as toxic masculinity. Okay. There are plenty of fucked up men, but nothing about masculinity in and of itself is toxic. Absolutely nothing. Um, so the, but what we have seen is, and that was a term that they came up with, I think in the nineties ish. Um, and to your point, you know, in the, in the fifties, sixties, seventies, dad was a good dude, good job, loved his wife, that kind of thing. I mean, he certainly, and yeah, there was, there was some,
there was kind of the, like a little bit too much control. It was like too much on one side. You get into the eighties, you get even the sitcoms at the time, like family ties growing pains, Michael J.
Fowler, right? Dad was still a good dude, softer guy, but good dude. And then the nineties hit and you get, everybody loves Raymond, this, this wussified, uh, man who's afraid of his wife and she can't stand him. He's acting like I love Lucy, you know, doing stupid shit.
He can't be solid, grounded, have his shit together. And she hates him for it. You get Homer Simpson to your point, the bumbling buffoon of a father, right? And then we get, you know, these terms, toxic masculinity and all this.
And when you started watching even the commercials, when there was a man and a woman in a drive through or at a camping trip and whatever, and there was some kind of, no, this is what happened. No, that's what happened.
The man was wrong 100% of the time and that continues to this day. So what's the, and then they come up with the term toxic masculinity and people say, well, you know, this, what is the backlash that's happened now?
It's like there's been such a, um, a response to the attack on masculinity. When did mass shootings start? In the late nineties, right? Because when all this started coming to a head, we'd had high capacity magazines since the forties, never a problem until the nineties when the attack on masculinity happened.
And if I just run this through the lens of science, if you take an orca and you stuff it, you know, that's supposed to be roaming free in the oceans of the world and you stuff it in a fish tank in San Diego, you're going to create a psychopathic murder dolphin.
You know, and if you take, if you take a big cat that's supposed to be roaming the plains of Africa and you put it in a cage, you create a psychopathic man eater.
You take masculinity that's supposed to be out and available and you lock it down and stuff it down and call it toxic. You create a psychopath.
Yeah. What is, what's your idea?
It's a great conversation. What is your idea of a good response to that?
Of a good response to the attack on masculinity? I think there are a lot of things that need to happen because a lot of this happened through the feminine, right? Because our sons were raised primarily by our moms and our teachers and they were taught to seek the approval of women.
And there's going to be a natural resistance to that because that's not really the way it's supposed to be. Like conscious men need to be raised by conscious men. And that's why tribal cultures understand this.
The boy is removed from mom. Today you will come on the hunt. You will go out and kill something or whatever, right? But it's like it's time to take your place among the men and among your community and to be a part of something greater than yourself.
And we don't really have that in Western civilization. So we have Peter Pan syndrome. We have these guys that never quite grew up or whatever and taught to seek the approval of women. And the masculine just naturally resents that.
And there's no shortage of this stuff. But it can be. We all need to do our part, right? I have a client right now that's crazy in love with a guy that is just a douche. He's got another girl and he's cheating on her left and right and everything.
And this woman is super in love with him. It's like, look, stop dating douchebags. Okay, that's the first step. Just a hard no to that. Stop teaching our men that they can, that this behavior gets rewarded in any way, shape or form.
Don't fall in love with a married guy. Just don't, right? Just be hard no on some of these things.
And we as men need to step forward and recognize that we have a responsibility here. We got to start doing better. We got to create the brotherhood. We got to recreate the community.
So where, I mean, I'll be the first one that tells any one of my friends if he's being a jackass. And they will light me up as well. I'll be like, Chris, you're being an asshole here.
And they'll just tell you when you're wrong. It seems to be the lens of judgment. That's the problem is we cannot judge people into course correction. We have to move into compassion and empathy because that's the conduit.
Yeah. I mean, it always comes down to balance because you don't want to have the over toxic on the one side who just resented or looking for the ego only.
On the other side, I saw this crazy post on X where I guess a pretty famous soccer player was getting divorced because the woman said he was too perfect.
I mean, at the same time, you don't want to be Mr. Cabana Boy all the time. You don't want to be the person who's always doing this. I mean, you got to have your own boundaries.
The reason why I think the reason why you have relationships, I mean, nobody would agree that somebody who's been married for 20 years to be able to marry that had an argument is that healthy sickness. Is that a healthy relationship?
That is not a healthy relationship if you haven't had an argument in 20 years. Right.
Because what the hell is that? Right. So I think what we need to find is and Jonathan, I've been exploring this is like, how do you embrace the divine feminine? Not in terms of being a feminine, but how do you do that yin yang?
How do you be mindful? How do you appreciate the things that are important? And how do you balance that out? Right. Because that's I mean, that's obviously how we're meant to be.
It's a compliment. It's not an overbearing on one another. And it's not an capitulation either. Right. It's not like overbearing. And it's not, hey, you know, walk all over me.
This is perfect place where I think we understand where our strengths are. But we tap into that. I think I don't know if communication and trying to be open is the key to that or just doing meditative work or having great support groups that also wake people up to these kinds of things.
Right. And I think, you know, whatever, whatever works needs to work, you know, more soon than later. You know, yeah, absolutely.
Chris, how do people find you?
They want to work or first I would say this.
Give us a one minute summary of how you can help people. And then how can people find you?
You can make it two minutes.
Dr. Robert Holden has a great quote. He says, If there's something missing from your life, it's probably you.
I can fix that.
You know, if it seems like your business or your life is running you instead of the other way around.
I can fix that.
You know, if you're getting leftovers of your own life.
Nobody you didn't come here to work hard, pay taxes, be exhausted and die.
So if it seems like there's something more, there is.
We can fix that.
And our website is chrismking.com.
That's the easiest way to find us.
And, you know, we've I think we actually set up a let's see.
This is how good I am. I have no business running my own business.
I'm the classic entrepreneur.
I do believe we set up a link specifically for your audience, actually.
So we'll have to we'll put that in the show notes.
But, yeah, I'll make sure that we have that.
Absolutely. It's been it's been a fascinating interview, Chris.
I appreciate you coming on here.
I think I wish you well in your help with people, because I think we are at a pivotal point in history where people want to wake up
and they want to become aware of their own capacity to take responsibility.
I loved your message. I think I completely resonate with it because and I wait.
I long to see time in our world where that comes to full fruition.
It's it's going to be an interesting time. So, Rich, any final questions?
No, I just I think that this is a prescient, prescient call.
I think that we're always looking for folks who are tapping into the power of the universe that are trying to help others,
that are trying to break free of the status quo, that are trying to make a difference and realize that, you know,
I think what's crazy is that no matter you can go through the millennia, everybody probably thought doomsday was around the corner.
Everybody thought, you know, you know, the end of the world was was nigh.
It does appear that, you know, every single day, every every week that goes by, it seems like we're on a precipice of something.
And I think it's up. I mean, we're having people talking about aliens are going to come to save us.
Right. And we're going to ascend and we're going to be all right. Tap into that.
Right. And I don't know where, you know, there's a situation where just being open to it, I think,
and having just expressed the beginning, just the idea that you acknowledge it and you're speaking it right.
It has power. Right. And I think the more and more conversations we have like this, the more, you know, we can spread the word.
I think we're going to be in a better place. Right. So I really appreciate having you on. Thank you so much. My pleasure.
Thank you for having me. All right. Thank you for listening to all of our listeners.
This has been a wonderful episode. Check out Chris. I encourage you to click on the link in the in the bio or in the summary.
Check him out because I think the work he's doing is pretty fascinating.
So please comment, review, send us your ideas for podcasts. We'd love to hear.
We've been in another amazing episode. Have a great Father's Day weekend, everyone and much love.