Welcome to Living in the Matrix. I'm Jonathan and I'm left of center.
And I'm Rich and I tend to lean a little bit more to the right. But the bottom line is,
is together we try to look for the balance of what it means to be human in today's world.
All right, let's get started everyone. Welcome to Living in the Matrix. I'm Jonathan. This is my
host Rich. Say hello, Rich. Good to be back. Gentleman. Good to see you. Good to be here.
Absolutely. Yeah. We have a very unique guest, someone I reached out to on Instagram.
So this is Dr. David Wardy. He runs Wardy Wellness. And what attracted me to Dr. Wardy was
his understanding of energy, especially around kinesiology and how the body is an energetic
movement. And so I want to dig into with him on this, because I think this is going to be a
fascinating episode on really learning how the body works energetically. And so Dr. welcome.
Thank you for coming on. Jonathan, Rich, thank you for having me.
Been listening to your podcast. Love it. I listened to one of them with your buddy,
the chiropractor. And yeah, so me and my buddy have our podcast. I know how it goes. So
love your all's podcast. Love what you're doing. Excited to be on the podcast today and tell my
story. And good to meet you guys. Yeah. So let me start by saying, um,
emotions are priority. Okay. We'll conscious of some stuff. Let's see what comes up, man.
So this is a place for your guide, Brian, a place emotional guide is a place, buddy.
Feelings of deep seated grief feels like giving up laughing on the outside, but crying on the
inside, breaking the laws of love, breaking the laws of peace and joy, resentment, hatred,
or anger built up inside. So is it resentment, hatred, anger built up inside. So we've got some,
we're holding onto some anger, but anger built up inside. Okay. So think about that for me.
Yeah. Very good. So you got awareness, brother. Let's just make our way into do some integration
here. Go ahead and scan those colors top to bottom. Brown, which one's sticking out at you, bud?
Green. So stare at the green for me, brother. Green. I love, say I love brown.
I love green corresponds to heart circulatory systems, arms, hands, green balances, openness,
compassion, unconditional love, forgiveness, acceptance, contentment, nurturing, generous,
harmonious, assertive, and heals loss. All the things you need to hear, right?
Does that one smell like fabuloso?
Help us understand what the hell you're doing because most people won't have an idea of what
you're doing. So the unique part about what I do in my practice is I blend a number of techniques
together based off what the individual needs on the table in front of me. And this journey
and has started from me as a structural based chiropractor, just coming straight out of school
and I'm completely out of the box. Oh man, you talk about, yeah, that's what we're talking about.
But that's how most people got their experience of it. You know, it's like they were ragged,
because it's a wild experience when someone goes pop, you know, it's not wild. It's terrible.
No, it's awesome.
Yes. No, it's horrifying. That feeling that you have that anticipation you get when the neck,
the side is fine, right? And you're on your back. It's fine when you're inside. It's fine.
And then when that comes in, it's like, oh, I'm going to be able to do this.
I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do this.
And then when that comes up, there's that level of anticipation, call it maybe about three degrees
lower than a firing range, right? Where you know something's going to happen to your neck and you
just got to relax as much as you can. I've never been able to lean into that situation. So let me
help me understand why I need to do that more. You know, it's interesting because I'm the same way,
guys, like I have trouble relaxing for a cervical manual adjustment, you know? And it's funny, like
you look at chiropractic as a profession and you guys just said it. It's immediately people run to
the rack and crack them. I'm going to get cracked when I go into these guys. And, you know, as a
profession, I feel like we're not doing a good job representing what we do because there's a large
spectrum of different types of techniques across chiropractic. And it's kind of like that one thing
you guys just talked about gets spread across the spectrum of every doctor that practices this type
of medicine. And again, it's just because we can't make up our minds as a profession what we do.
We don't want to just plant our flag in the sand and say, this is what we are, this is what we do.
And we keep trying to blend in with medicine and do all these other things, right? So to get back
to what we were talking about with this video is, you know, I started that way. I was in this box
and, you know, like talking about living in a matrix, you know, I grew up in a household where
I still use conventional medicine. I was on a lot of antibiotics growing up and, you know,
we didn't eat the best in my household. My mom, right around my teenage years, started getting
into more wellness type things and started taking better care of herself. She started working with
an herbalist and, you know, she started going to a chiropractor. I mean, all these things started
changing in early adolescence. So I started getting a little bit of the whole wellness, taking care
of yourself, self-care, you know, eating right, supplementing a little bit of this. My first
experience with chiropractic was the raccoon crack them. You know, that's all I knew. So, I mean,
that was my story. I had a wonderful chiropractor, raccoon crack them. He did an amazing job. I was
an athlete for most of my life. I played college football all the way through college. Chiropractic
was a huge part of my life, but that was my picture. I was very much in a box. Okay. So,
so what do I do in my videos? Well, I've been in practice 17 years and I'm in a place now
where I've almost completely let go of all of what I've learned in school.
And I am approaching the person on the table from a completely different place than what I was taught
and given my license. Is it a feel? How would you describe that transition? It sounds to me like
you're literally feeling what's going on as opposed to looking at the textbook sitting on your shelf.
Okay. Tell us a little bit about that experience. So, let's do this. We're going to have to go in
reverse, guys. I'll tell you what it is I'm doing and then I'll be able to tell my story afterwards.
So, where am I at now? There you go. So, one of the things I always explain to our practice
members is at no point, at no point during your visits am I intervening as a doctor.
There's no intervention of me saying, I think that this is what needs to be done here.
It doesn't happen in my clinic. Never happens. So, from the moment a person gets on the table,
I'm being guided by the body as far as what priority is in order of each step
of what needs to be done. And what I do is I run through different subsystems that I run checks on.
So, I run checks on the field. So, I check the actual magnetic field of the body.
Then I run checks on and I'll just tell you what they are. So, I have active, passive,
neuro-lymphatic, extremity, field, emotions, and fascia. And so, I always-
Do you feel like that's a full representation of the body?
To where I'm at with the type of medicine I'm allowed to do in my scope, absolutely. Because
when we're on table time and I'm running through those particular subsystems,
I'm just going in priority. So, for example, if somebody's on the table and field comes up,
that's where I start. And then after I'm done working on the field and I'm done with that layer,
then I ask the body again, okay, now where's priority? And then I go to the next layer.
And I don't choose what that layer is going to be. Sometimes fascia is first,
sometimes field's first, sometimes- So, it's not linear. Okay.
Oh, the body- Yeah.
Well, let's talk about that. The body is non-linear.
Truly.
So, we have a medicine. We look at conventional medicine,
everything is linear in conventional medicine. So, that's immediately understand that conventional
medicine can't be a holistic type of care because it's linear in nature. And the human body is
non-linear. A plus B, right, does not equal C. And I always have to explain this to people.
So, for example, let me give that example. So, let's say priority is field on the patient.
Okay. If I go and just assess and I see, oh, the fascia's wound up here. Oh, man, this extremity
needs some work. And oh, man, the neuroemphatics are all clogged over here. And I assess and get
a picture of what needs to be worked on just as the patient is. The moment I go in and do one
thing on the body, just one thing, everything changes and has to be reassessed again. So,
it's like cogs. The moment you move one cog, you're going to get all the same things.
The moment you move one cog, you're going to get all these other cogs moving and changing.
So, you're going to get a different result after you make one change. So, everything will change.
And what I teach a lot of my CAs and the people that work with me is I teach them how to read
the body and map the body that way so that they're letting the body guide them. But your assessment,
taking the time to assess and allowing the body to guide you, really cleans the body up a lot
faster and then gives the body what it's asking for. So, again, I don't intervene. And then by
the time I'm done, I run through all these subsystems. And then the last thing I do,
is there anything else? And if they test, they're done, they're done. And I run through all those
subsystems until they're clear.
But so, let's compare and contrast because in the rack and crack world, you're functionally
moving something that produces a sound that has a feeling and it feels like something is relieved.
Okay, that's the rack and crack thought that most people probably have an experience of.
It's not wrong. It's just, it's the world most chiropractors have been in. And then there's
your world, which says, no, this is a full body system that is energy, that is matter.
We balance those in terms of all these signals. How did you get from there to there?
So, just to follow up on what you said about the hearing the crack, right? And thinking that that's
the healing. A lot of people think that that crack means that the medicine is taking place.
And what's interesting is the cavitation has nothing to do with the outcome. So, I always
tell people it's not about the crack. And that's a big misconception as it is, right? So, as again,
I came out of school as a structural-based chiropractor. So, that was all I knew, right?
It was you go in, you give them a good manual adjustment. There's different techniques we
learned in school. We learned about 10 different techniques. And we did get exposed to applied
kinesiology and some other things that were more tonal techniques, which is a lot of what I'm doing
now. But the basis of what we're taught in school is like you guys are saying, manual adjusting.
So, coming out of school, that's what I did. I did a little bit of supplementation.
I started up doing some cold laser therapy right out of school, using a little bit of
ion foot baths, wellness type things, but still very structural-based. And it was interesting.
I didn't get the results that I thought I was going to get coming out of school.
You start seeing these people rolling through their doors and you start adjusting them,
and then you don't see really improvements. They're still subluxated, that you're not
really seeing the subluxation pattern changing much. And then you start looking at the body as
a whole and you say, okay, well, what else is going on here? Because we're taught in school
to focus on addressing the interferences, right? So, we have three stressors the nervous system
has to deal with. You have biochemical stress, mental, emotional, and you have physical stress.
And the body's constantly, the nervous system's constantly having to deal with all this stress.
It can't tell the difference what the stress is, but it has to adapt. And when we're not adapting
well, we get dysregulated. And so, we're taught to just move bones to regulate the nervous system.
And this can be effective. It can, and there are ways and there are good chiropractors that
do these types of clinics where they're high volume, racconcracoma, and they're very successful,
and people still get well. But when people are really sick, it's not enough. So, here's
my story. So, I was a doctor at 25, and about two years after I graduated, I got married,
met my wife. And a year into our marriage, my wife got sick one day, seemed like she had like
an infection, her lymph nodes got real swollen around her neck and different parts of her body.
And so, we took her to the doctor. They put her on antibiotics. And I mean, I'm still conventional
medicine mind back then, okay? Ran, you know, got antibiotics and she just started getting worse,
got to the point where she could barely breathe. She'd walk from like the living room to the
bedroom and like, was it be out of breath? Like she was going to pass out. So, we're like,
what's going on? And within a two week period, having to take her to the hospital, her hemoglobin
level was at a 3.5. She pretty much was almost like not carrying any oxygen anymore on her blood to
her body. So, that's why she couldn't walk. So, she got deathly ill. We have no clue what's going on
with her. And young, right? Your wife is the same age as you are at this stage, right? Yeah,
I'm 20. Like late 20s. She's four years younger than me. So, she's much younger than me at this
point. Oh, geez. Wow. Because I'm only 27. So, I get hit like a year into marriage with my wife just
like deathly ill and like we're in the hospital. And I think, I have no idea if she's going to die.
I mean, no joke. Like I'm holding her hand at the side of the bed like from within a two week period
of like she was fine. And then now she's like deathly ill. So, I remember being in the hospital
and asking the doctors over and over and trying to interpret her blood work. And you're in survival
mode at this point. And I remember being in that state and saying, there's got to be, what is causing
this issue? There's got to be something going on. And it was really sad the responses I would get
from the people that were taking care of my wife. It was just kind of like, wow, we don't know.
Could be this, could be that, could be viral, could be this, but we don't know. So, that journey
took us to multiple doctors in town. She had like multiple blood transfusions to stabilizers. They
threw tons of prednisone at her just to suppress her immune system. But again, they don't know.
But they're just throwing stuff out to suppress her. And I'm not bad mouthing conventional medicine.
They saved my wife's life. And thank God that we have acute care for things like that. But what
ended up, we ended up figuring out and what they started to shed light on, which I kind of
already figured out before they told us was, well, it seems like she has some form of autoimmune
disorder. It's called hemolytic anemia. Her body's attacking her red blood cells. So, I would ask
them, well, what's causing this? Like what in the body could be causing this? They didn't have a
clue. So, we ended up going to two Mayo clinics. We went to the one in Phoenix. We went to the one
in Florida. And the only answer we got from them was, well, let's take her spleen out. And they
said, okay, well, do you know that the spleen's causing the problem? They're like, well, no,
but the chances are it could be. So, I was like, so you just want to start cutting up my wife and
guessing, huh? And that wasn't enough for me. So, I told the doctor, no, we're not going to do that.
I said, this is ridiculous. You guys have no clue and you're just guessing. It's almost like
you're just throwing something on the wall to see what sticks. And I'm not going to do that with her.
So, I remember after we had already gone, this was the second Mayo clinic. We had already talked.
We'd done multiple phone consults with doctors at Cleveland Clinic. And like just, I mean,
we're trying to figure out. Cleveland Clinic's amazing. Very, very well, yeah. But no answers.
Mayo, right? Yeah. This is where people think you go to get answers, right? And we didn't
get anything. We got no answers. So, my wife's really down at this point after the second Mayo
clinic. We're at the clinic still. We're like in their little foyer outside by the fountains
after our appointments and we're getting ready to leave. And she's really down and upset. And
I remember telling her, I looked at her and I said, babe, I was like, there is a cause.
And I was like, I know there's something causing this and we're going to figure it out. We just
don't know what it is right now, but we'll figure it out. And I was like, so you're going to have
to hang in there. I was like, but don't, you can't give up hope. I was like, we'll get there.
And so, this began our journey. So again, structural-based chiropractor, okay. I'm seeing
like as high volume as I can on two years in practice, right? Just trying to build my practice
at this point. I haven't really gotten my practice real built up yet. And I immediately start looking
for answers in natural medicine. So I said, you know what? I went to the conventional box. They
didn't have anything for me. I'm going to go look at everything and I'm not going to take anything
out of, you know, this may not work. This could, I mean, anything could work. Let's just go see
what's out there. So I immediately start going. I go and learn from a guy that I really wanted to
learn from school. His name was Dr. John Brimhall. So he's a big, huge mentor of mine. Wonderful
doctor. He's the first guy that I ran to and started learning from him. Implemented all of
his stuff. If you see Dr. John Brimhall's work, he does a little bit of kinesiology work. He does
some emotional central integration. He does, so that was like when I really started to get exposed
more outside of just what I was trained in school. Because in school we had a little bit of applied
kinesiology. I took some basic modules, but I hadn't really dove into anything yet. So Dr.
Brimhall was really my first exposure to doing more energy work. Really starting to muscle test,
really starting to dive into doing, you know, muscle response testing for supplementation
and running people through his total health scan. When was this? At what time was that?
So it was like two and a half years out of practice. So this was probably back in around
2009-ish. That's exactly the same time. I think something was going on at that time because
like that's when, so to our audience, there's a connection point here of that's when Dr. Hawkins
really kind of started to really blossom and get a lot of attention. And I think we're now seeing
the fruit of a lot of that because I think the world is waking up to mental health and how much
it affects physical health. And you have this journey of discovering it's not just all matter,
it's also energy. How was it again to shift from this harder construct to a more ethereal idea?
You know, when you're in survival mode, it's interesting what you're willing to do
just to try to get out of that state. You know? That's a great point.
You know, we talked to patients. Yeah, I mean, it opens your box. You know, when you have your
health, you never think about it, right? But the moment you don't have it, it's all you think about.
And even though I was fine health-wise, that's all I thought about because my wife was like
literally chronically ill. And by the way, guys, she just kept getting worse. You know,
we'll keep telling the story, but it's like she didn't stabilize. She just continued to unravel
and continue to degrade in front of me while this is going on. But yeah, I mean,
when I started doing Brimhall stuff, the beautiful part was when we started doing the work on Clarissa
and giving the supplements, I saw her start to feel a little bit better. So that was something
for me, right? It was like, okay, she wasn't feeling better with anything we were doing before.
Now we're doing this, she's feeling a little bit better. So she's getting a little bit more energy.
And at that point, did the doctors have any diagnosis or any kind of idea?
It was just autoimmune hemolytic anemia. We don't know, could be viral, could keep going the rest
of her life. It may stop in a year. Like that was the answer we got. Just, I don't know.
And it's like a technical term.
Buddy, I don't get hung up with labels and diagnoses because I don't see the body that way.
You know, I understand there are people in this world that look at the body that way and they,
in medicine, we have to label things for insurance purposes and all that. But like,
to me, it's just like, yes, my wife's immune system is whacking out. There's a reason it's
doing that. Let's try to figure this out. That's the way I saw it. You know, and at that point,
different frame of mind, okay? I mean, the way I see things now is a completely different
look now compared to where I was then and the way I was seeing things, you know?
But you know, to answer that question, guys, when you're in survival mode, I mean, the box just opens.
It's just like, yeah, it's almost like you're asking the universe, like, please guide me.
Amen. Yeah.
You're just saying, please guide me and show me, just show me something so I know where to go.
Well, what you're bringing up is something interesting that happens a lot on missions
trips. When people are in foreign countries, they don't know the culture, they don't know
the language. They're very out of their comfort zone. There tends to be a lot more miracles and
a lot more things that happen with that minimalism. Liminalism.
Liminal. Yeah, the liminal space, right? Yeah. So the encouragement, the ability to
release all of your own suppositions and being at the almost the mercy of the universe or the divine
or whatever the Holy Spirit, if you would. Show me.
Yes. Yeah. Show me the way here because
we've been down this path so many times where the physical, I mean, Neo is battling Morpheus and he
goes, do you think that's area breathing right now? Right. They're doing the construct, right?
And like, he seems tired and he's like trying to figure out why he's not able to be Morpheus,
right? He goes, do you think that's what's going on? Right. And he has to, you have to quell
that pre-defined vision, whether it's textbooks of knowledge or whether it's your
knowledge of your environment. It has to be a canon. Yes.
Yeah. It has to be a canon, an idea. And the chiropractic world had a lot of elements in
Eastern ideas, but it had a hard science to it. Well, a big thing a lot of people forget about
chiropractic is Didi Palmer was a magnetic healer before he invented chiropractic. He was an energy
healer. Yes. And nobody wants to talk about that in our profession. Sean told us that.
Yeah. And it's funny how nobody talks about that, right? Like we're just stuck on this physical
move bone stuff, but yeah, I mean, he was an energy healer before he started doing that stuff.
Rich, you beautifully put that, man. Yeah. You beautifully frame that, buddy. Like
it's the power of the nervous system, man. And the state it puts you in, fight, flight or freeze.
Okay. Some people will freeze in those moments and they don't do anything in life. They freeze.
Some people will flight, right? They just rolling a ball and that's it. And then there's the fighters
and I'm in the, I'm in the fight mode, man. It was just like, I'm going to fight for my wife's life
here. I'm not going to let this be a reality. And so, yeah, I mean, the box is completely open.
There is like, just show me, show me. And you said it awesomely because I think the canon was
honestly the way you put it is it, that has to happen. And it's sad because this happens
with a lot of people with healing when it comes to healing. They have to hit rock bottom. Something
really bad has to happen to create that shift of consciousness. But in my story, which you guys
will see, it's created something beautiful in our lives. Like where I'm at now, the beauty and what
I have now because of this story, which we'll talk about as we get down that road though,
that was the beginning right there. I mean, we're talking about the very beginning.
Yeah. I only want to interject one more thing because one of the stigmas against the
chiropractic or the pharma or cognitive behavioral, cognitive therapy is when you keep going back and
it's 12, 15, 20 years down the road and you're still got this support system and you haven't
broken free of it, that's not healthy either. Right. So the stigma, like you hear, I knew a guy
when I waited tables, you know, this guy would go in every week and it was like three years later.
It's like, dude, what are you doing? I mean, isn't there supposed to be a path out of this process
where you're not in pain anymore? He's basically like a pusher for you. And, you know, religion
has the same problem, right? You can be free or you can hold onto this idea of walls and boundaries
and not breaking free. So let's talk, let's continue the journey and help us understand how
your model is different and where we need to get to a level where those kinds of stigmas don't take
place anymore. So, you know, from Brimhall's stuff, was doing more energy work. Okay. And then I kind
of mastered his stuff after about four years and I needed, I was just ready for the next thing.
And one of his crew introduced me to Dr. Dan Pompa. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Dr. Dan
Pompa's work. So Dr. Dan Pompa's claim to fame is he does a lot of cellular detox. So Clarissa had
only gotten so far in her healing with Brimhall and we did, I knew there was something else, right? So
I knew that detox was a big key for my wife. I knew there was something going on where we needed to
look into that. And I learned a ton from Dr. Dan Pompa. He didn't just teach me about how to
effectively get the body detoxed. I mean, I had been using all different kinds of detoxes in my
practice for years that just didn't have really any effect on anybody. I didn't see any big changes
in people's health. I wasn't seeing what I wanted to see with these types of programs. At that time
in the industry, there was all kinds of stuff being thrown around detox, detox, detox, but with
honestly just really crappy results that would come out of it when you would sell these people
on these programs, you just didn't really see the results. They were short-lived. So when I met Dan,
Dan's claim to fame is he got sick himself. He had mercury toxicity from getting dental
malgums taken out. And he got horrible anxiety, like suicidal, like just whacked out. And so
he tried all these things and nothing worked. And then finally he figured it out with the way that
he went around this process. So he developed something called TruCer, their detox. So I went
to learn that from Dan. Me and my wife both got certified and learned how to do that in our
practice and we did it ourselves. And that was another layer for Clarissa. But the big piece of
that process was one of the hidden pieces with my wife was her gut, believe it or not. So just to
kind of shine some light there, she was completely asymptomatic of gut issues. She didn't get bloating
after she aged, didn't have constipation or diarrhea, like normal bowel movements, like
not like completely asymptomatic, but she was suffering from a massive leaky gut. And it wasn't
until it got more severe during her autoimmune problems that we started to see this. So then
these food intolerances started setting in with gluten and she wasn't digesting well and she would
bloat and swell after she ate and she wasn't handling food anymore. And so right along this
time we met Dan and we started learning how to work on leaky gut and repair the gut and the
microbiome. And we got into block fasting. He taught us, I mean, when I was with Dan's group,
we were probably ahead of the US by at least three or four years of doing block fasts and the water
fasts. We were doing five day water fasts like six years ago, not longer. No bone broth, just pure
water for five days. Pure water. I've taken my practice members through five day block fasts
with water. It's beautiful. You get amazing amount of gluten. You get stem cell growth. You get
autophagy. It's a very powerful detox. And here's the thing, when you effectively want to fast the
body properly, there's a process there. We ramp you in over a seven week process. But man, a five
day water fast, if you have not experienced that, it's life changing. It will reset the body in so
many ways. So we did that. And so again, Clarissa just getting better and better little by little,
little by little. Right? We're finding- What's the time frame up until this point? How long has it been?
Let's see. We were about, with Brimhall, it was like two and a half years and four years passed by.
Right? And so that then, I don't know, six years that she's sick and then we're with Dan. And so
we're still getting better. Like she's not as bad. A little bit better. Yeah. Not like she can't breathe across the living room.
Yeah. It wasn't a switch, but like she's healing. Like she's not, you know, cause let me tell you
where she was. So I told you guys she was getting worse, right? Making progress. So when she was bad
coming out of the hospital, guys, they stabilized her, but then this is what rolled out. She couldn't
get out of bed in the morning because she wasn't getting good sleep. So like literally exhausted,
like no energy, like hard to get out of the bed in the morning and just get about her day. She started
getting these like welts all under her skin, all over her body and her lymph nodes would swell up on
and off and her tongue would swell. And then she started getting like Candida issues here. And I mean,
like you can think of everything that the immune system could whack out on. You know, she'd get
inflamed. Her joints would swell up like balls. I mean, it was horrible, like brain fog, you know,
digestive problems, like horrible fatigue. I can't sleep. I mean, just then depression sets in,
right? Because you feel horrible. So I just watched my wife over this period. She was getting worse.
Brimhall kind of pulled her out of that a little bit. Okay. And we, she had better energy. We
started getting her sleeping a little bit better. Her gut was still kind of not great, but like she
was somewhat functional when we were with Brimhall stuff. She just still wasn't getting better. She
would flare. You see flares without an immune. And then we went to Pampa stuff. And again, we were
Pampa with about, for about three years. So like now we're about what? Nine years, like seven, eight,
nine years down the road when I'm while I'm with Pampa, she's still healing. We're not having any
issues with like the energy anymore. Her flares are very, very, very, very set apart now versus
being like every like six to eight weeks. She can sleep better. I mean, she's somewhat getting a
normal life. So what happened on the backend of Clarissa's autoimmune journey is all of the stuff
that she had at the beginning, we pretty much wiped out by year 10. It took her 10 years to help her
to fix this. But by year 10, all this stuff that we pretty much started with and that she had had
on and off was pretty much gone. So like energy wasn't an issue. Sleep really wasn't an issue.
She didn't flame anymore. But man, her skin, right around year six in the 10 year journey,
her skin started doing some funny stuff. So then we started seeing eczema and psoriasis and like
just mass. Her ears would get all fluid, would start leaking out of her ears. I mean, like folds
of her skin were just like lesions. I mean, scalp would like horrible flakes of a rake, you know,
stuff on the face. I mean, really bad skin conditions, but it wasn't the autoimmune.
So apparently after we saw a lot of immunologists and we looked at this thing, the prednisone that
they had put her on for the first like six, seven years of her autoimmune massively destroyed her
immune system. Prednisone long term will make things a hundred times worse. And we didn't know,
okay. It was just one of those things we didn't know. You know, and she had been on a high dose.
We immediately had got her to a very, very low, low, low dose of prednisone to where she was almost
just taking like five milligrams a day. And then she, for like three or four years, she would only
take it if she had flares to try to calm things down. But unfortunately that journey to stabilize
her caused a long-term skin problem and immune just whacked her skin out, all kinds of allergies.
So now we're just dealing with allergies. And so, you know, at the backend of her journey, a lot
of this stuff's gone that she was having to deal with on a daily basis, but it was just the skin
stuff. So we, and again, thank God for conventional medicine. We finally were able to help her with
her skin because her skin got so bad guys about two, three years ago that her whole body looked
like an open lesion and she lost like probably about two thirds of her hair. And so-
You're talking about Job, Job, right, Jonathan? Oh man, he's bad.
This is crazy. This is left field, but you know, there's this passage in the Bible that talks about
an affliction, right? I mean, it feels like what your wife went through is like a fucking
demonic or spiritual affliction. I mean, certainly the body's part of it, but it seemed like there
was just an assault, like nonstop of a different matter. Absolutely. Yeah.
So I gotta ask, what were you feeling at the time?
Yeah. I wasn't, yeah. Man, you know, as a guy, just as a guy, it's okay.
That's a brutal journey, bro. Oh, absolutely. You know, I had my highs and lows.
You watch your wife suffer like that. And when she was at some of her lowest times, like,
it takes the life out of you guys. I was still having to get up, go to work, try to
like support my family, like be there for my child, be there for my wife, like put on the happy,
smiley face when I know my wife's in bed and can't get out of bed and is suffering. I mean,
it's hard, you know, but you're able to do. But you know, one of the things I would always share
with my wife, I said, look, I said, I know I'm not physically going through what you're going through,
but every piece of me as a human being, every piece of energy and my soul
feels the pain and the suffering that you're feeling. Like I am going through that with you.
And I tell her, understand that, like, I'm with you on this journey with that and that I'm not
immune to that stuff. And, you know, we had our ups and downs and, you know, it's interesting to
look back at it and we'll talk a little bit about her journey with healing and then we'll wrap it
all up with even the medicine we had to use. But Clarissa had a big healing journey. You know,
it's funny how these types of things in your life sometimes will shift you to have to raise
that consciousness and have to figure out what needs to shift in me for me to get well. And we
both had these journeys because of her pain, her suffering. I have grown and evolved as a human
being immensely because of my wife and her journey. And we look back on it now. That sensitivity is
probably affecting your work. That empathy and sensitivity and just that experience,
it can only imagine how helpful that's been for you, your journey.
Well, let's just, we can talk about that. So, you know, when Clarissa, like four years in our
journey when she was sick and because we figured like we didn't get any answers, right? We started
noticing that there was a lot of other people that were in the same boat as her. Like they
weren't getting answers either. So as I'm learning stuff to help my wife, I'm implementing it into
my practice over this 10 year period. And my practice is evolving and changing like every
year because I was probably hitting up at least four, four to six seminars a year and conferences
to go learn from doctors and naturopaths. Just whoever was out there talking about different
things in my industry that I knew could help heal my wife, I was going out and I was learning it.
And this, as this was happening, it was slowly evolving and morphing my practice.
You know, it got to the point where all my practice numbers were like, oh, we can't wait
till you come back to see what you implement and change in the clinic. Like they like that I'm
evolving and growing these things. They don't like it. Like they're always waiting for the next thing
every year because everything that we do always evolves, right? So as we're evolving and healing
and Clarissa is getting better, the practice is evolving and I'm able to help, I'm helping more
people. You know, as a doctor of things, I never thought I'd be ever able to help people with.
I started being able to help people with, I had people coming into me with things that thought,
oh my God, I can't believe they're coming to me for this, but then I'm able to help them for this.
You know, and then as a doctor, things that I like, again, I'm in this box of what I'm going to see
as a chiropractor for my life. And then that box just starts doing this. Once I start, you know,
broadening that lens a little bit to help my wife and changing my practice, her practice changed.
So we started getting more patients like my wife. We started having people that had autoimmune
disorders come in. We had people coming in that were suffering, they can't sleep or they have
digestive problems or brain fog or, you know, anxiety, depression, or I have immune issues or
have, you know, that's the type of stuff that started rolling in. And I stopped just getting
all my back hurts. And, you know, now, you know, full circle, I really, I mean, I don't get a lot
of the structural stuff anymore. We still get it, but we don't ever talk about pain or focus on pain
in my clinic because that's not what healing is. So we're in a place now where I went from a pain
based chiropractor. Dr. Hold on a second. Unpack that because I think that's a very big statement
you just made. Yeah, I'm going to unpack it. So I don't chase pain in my clinic. And that's one of
the first things I tell everybody. If you're in, if you are coming into me because you want to have
a change in your symptoms from how you, before you came into me, before you left, like all symptom
base, that's the way you're thinking, then this is not the practice for you. It's in my, I have an
agreement that people sign before they come into my clinic. The understanding of my patient agreement
is that we are upgrading your human operating system. And there is growth and evolution and
more bandwidth as we do this and your ability to regulate yourself better. And this will bring
more opportunities and changes in conscious human performance and your actions and your, absolutely,
it's human performance, but it's beyond that guys. Like it's changing consciousness in people.
You're raising bandwidth in their nervous system and in their energy system so that they can
actually tackle more of life and not have to be in survival mode. Because most of the people that
come into me, they're in survival mode when they come into me. And my job is to take them back.
Well, let's talk about 2009. Yeah. 2009, when things started getting really bad,
what was going on in the economy, right? We were in the pit of the great resistance.
With the most crisis. Oh yeah.
Absolutely. There was a lot of stress, a lot of freaking out. When after 9-11 happened,
there was so much sickness in the New York City area, not just because of the initial physiological
and the affront of the destruction, but waves of people were sick.
Emotional distress.
They were on a fight or flight. Their cortisol levels are through the roof. The adrenal system
was overdrive. They couldn't heal. They couldn't sleep. And they couldn't do that. And so that,
I think you're nailing it. I mean, when you've got a broken computer, there could be so many things.
It could be a virus. It could be the storage. It could be memory. It could be a couple other
things. And you have to look at it holistically, like you're saying, in order to get to the root
cause of it. Yep. So yeah, I mean, and we explained that. So when people come in, like, it's very,
it's very important that I explain to them right off the bat, like, look, I'm hearing what you're
telling me and what's wrong with you. But the reality is we're going to go and ask your body
right now what's going on. And your body is going to tell me and you what's going on. Because you
and me don't know what's going on. And honestly, you only have so much awareness. And the awareness
of people and their bodies is on a very, very wide spectrum. You have some people that are very
aware of their body. They're very perceptive based. They can, they have a very innate sense of what's
going on with their systems. And then you have people that are completely clueless. So if I'm a
doctor and I'm just listening to somebody talking about all their symptoms and what they think is
going on, they could lead me all the way out here in my field and this has nothing to do with what's
going on. So I understood a long time ago with the tools that I was learning to assess the body
and to get answers from the body that the body can guide you if you know how to talk to it,
if you know how to ask the right questions, if you know how to challenge it, if you know how to tap
into it. And so that's what I've developed over my career. You know, over like 17 years of doing
this type of work, you start to build more intuitiveness. You start to, because you're
putting your hands on people all day. And when you're tapping into people's energy systems,
whether it's the nervous system, the electric body, you're in the field and you're in the magnetic
body, you're going to start to feel things over time because you do it every day. And so you're
into it. It's your intention. Absolutely. As a doctor, your intention is to heal. And when you're
feeling that healing going on in people, it's going to affect you. And so you build more
intuitiveness and you build more of this, you know, the way me and my wife talk about it now,
because my wife's a yogi and she's a level two reiki practitioner and she works with me in the
clinic and she's our TCD specialist. She has all the lifestyle medicine counseling. So talk about
someone who's healed and now she's helping people that used to suffer like her. But we talk about it
like this. She says, you know, it's interesting watching you work now. She says, it's almost like
you're picking up the frequency of where the imbalances in the body as you're mapping things.
She's like, I'm watching you. She's like, cause I always tell her why I feel it. Cause she sees it
and she's always telling me why I can see it. And I was like, well, I don't see it. I feel it. And
then sometimes it's like somebody's just talking in my ear throughout the whole visit and just
tells me where to go. But it's like, you're just tuning in. You're, you're picking up on the, the
patterns, energetic patterns on these different layers of the body. And when you're doing this
all day and you're working on these layers, you start to notice what things feel like.
And so again, just back to, no, go ahead, go ahead guys. I was going to say, if you look at like,
an acupuncturist, they've got a chart of all the pressure points and they can tell you where this
foot thing helps like here or X, Y, Z. Those are all things that are supposed to be structured.
And also, I mean, even though it's Eastern medicine, you're looking at pressure points
and certain things, certain herbs to do certain things. It's very fixed. It's exactly what I'm
saying is it seems to me you're going beyond that. You're actually doing something that
there might be something out because guess what? Everybody who goes to the chiropractor, not
everybody's going to get healed. And everybody's probably gone and hoping they've been fully
healed. And it's not that. So where do you, where do you actually tap into what is kind of a consensus?
And then where do you draw some more intuition? This is the beautiful thing about the brain and
how your, how a holistic process works for you. Relying on good best practices, like how to drain
the lymphatic system. There's certain herbs you can take, which are naturally good for that
versus, well, you know what? We've been through this path. We've got the symptoms that technically
have this, but we've got something else going on here. Help us understand how you work through
those kind of that dichotomy, that duality. Well, you know, guys, it's interesting when you don't
know how to use these tools and you don't use them as a doctor, it's interesting what you think is
the problem. You know, I look back entirely like, yeah, so when I wasn't doing this type of work
and the way that we're taught in school to assess the body and go through like range of motion
checks and like, you know, these types of orthopedic tests, very mechanical, structural matter-based
tests. Okay. And then we're taught imaging, which is great. Imaging can tell you some stuff.
We're taught a little bit about blood, but in all honesty, when you're using those, only those types
of tools, think about this. All you're doing is looking at the effect. This is very important.
Okay. You're just looking at the effect and the effect could be like a million things.
I mean, really think about this. The effect could be a million things.
So when I- What are the effects of like depression? Like you could have 14 different things that can,
that your body, your emotions, your range could be as a result of depression, but you're still
getting out, you're missing the root cause. Yeah. I mean, think about it. We're a system of systems,
right? Every system has to be in rhythm. The hole's in a rhythm, but what's throwing off the rhythm?
It could be mental, emotional stress, and that could be throwing everything into a whirlwind.
But if I'm just focusing and throwing supplements at this person and putting them on a diet and
telling them to exercise and the whole time their brain and their mind is just stuck in mental stress
and doesn't have the capacity, I may start moving the needle and that person's healing, but it's
going to be very, very, very slow and they're probably not going to be successful and feeling
much better because I'm not where I need to be. And then you have some people that maybe that is
the case. Maybe it is biochemical stress. The mind's fine, but they just trash their body and they
don't take care of themselves. They eat like crap. They drink too much. They do recreational drugs.
Maybe I do need to focus and clean this up, right? Or maybe it's just physical. Maybe they have
trauma from physical accidents that need healing, right? But then we have a breakdown of all these
systems that need to be supported to allow that healing. But here's the thing. If you're not taught
to ask the body and the body to show you where a priority is and where you really need to focus
your energy, then you're just spinning your wheels and you're not doing much for that patient. They're
not going to heal very quickly and you're really not going to see the results you want to see.
So what I saw over my journey when my medicine changed and when I start tapping in the way I do
now is I get to the priority of the root of the system in their body or systems that are struggling
that need help. And I already know where I need to focus my energy with the tools and the medicine
I have to help them heal. And it's interesting. I have a body ecosystem hierarchy in my clinic
on a poster. I got this from Dr. Perry Nicholson, if you guys have ever heard of the lymph mojo guy,
amazing guy. You guys got to check him out. Stop chasing pain. Learned a lot from him about the
lymphatic system. He taught me a ton of stuff. I like that idea of not chasing pain. Stop chasing
pain. That's his website. It's a mindset shift. Well, pain doesn't come from the body guys. It
comes from the brain. That's just brain neuroscience. That's neuroscience. We understand
now that the brain tells the body where to experience the pain. It's not coming from the
body, right? So if you're chasing pain patterns all day, you're going to get nowhere. Yeah.
So where was I? So we were talking about... So I mean, this is all stuff to help my wife, guys,
because I had to figure out what was root cause for her, right? So as I'm learning these tools,
at this point, doctor, at this point, you had not come to a significant conclusion other than it's
an autoimmune disease. That search is kind of gone. Is that where you're at? Pretty much. We know it's
just an immune problem, but we're finding little by little, like, oh, digestion is an issue. We need
to address this. Like this is a root cause. And for our listeners that don't understand immune
disease, help them understand that it's not like a broken arm where you have a fixed problem. An
autoimmune can have multiple symptoms, right? So, you know, my journey with autoimmune went from
seeing it in a box and then now really understanding what it is. And you see it very
different. But so autoimmune, the way I explain it to people is it's not a disease. It is a,
basically, a dysregulated immune system. So what it is, the immune system cannot balance itself.
It can't come back in homeostasis. And you have two types of autoimmune type patients. And then
there's a large spectrum of problems that can develop from these two types. And some of these
people, they show autoimmune from birth. They have allergies from the time they're little kids,
asthma and constant mucus. And they struggle all the way in their early adolescence, early 20s,
20s, constantly showing an immune picture from the time they're born. And then you have others
that don't show any of that picture. And then it springs up later in life, like maybe in their
20s or 30s and slowly starts to show and kind of show its head later. And the funny thing about
autoimmune, when the immune system starts whacking out, is it will pick different parts of the body
and different systems and tissues to start affecting and create its dis-ease in the body.
So in my wife's picture, for example, it was autoimmune hemolytic anemia was the label they
want to put it because it was affecting her blood. Other people like in Hashimoto's, it's their
thyroid. And you have people that have like Addison's and Cushing. I mean, the list goes
on and on guys. There's like hundreds of autoimmune problems because there's tons of labels. But at
the end of the day, its immune system is not functioning properly. So yeah, I mean, you look
and we're looking for these root causes and these tools are helping me figure out, okay, root cause,
we know this is an issue. Her body is telling me this is an issue. Let's focus here. So we focused
on her gut. And then we started to notice, like I said, her immune system. So we started doing
immune type based therapies with her to try to get her immune system balanced out. And then the
brain, we started working with her nervous system more. And I'll get into like some of these things
in a second of how that was a huge game changer for her. If you ask Clarissa, what was probably
the biggest thing that helped her just feel better and helped her regulate? It was NIS. It was
neurological integration system, which is one of the systems that I use. But all these tools
and knowing where to go to use them are not, I mean, a tool is only good as a person using them
and know how to use them, right? There's a ton of tools out there. I teach my CAs all the time,
guys, this is a tool, but it's only so good as the person holding it. And so that's a doctor,
right? We have all these tools, but if you don't know where you need to use them and where is
priority and route, then your patient is not going to really see that healing like they need to.
So I'm in a place now in my medicine that I have the tools to find that root cause. And when I'm
able to tap into somebody, we're able to assess two things. We're working on the magnetic body
first in the field, which really tells me a lot of things. It tells me a lot of things that are
going on in the electric body. So neuroscience type stuff. If you look at modern neuroscience,
I can map all that for you in the body based off what is going on in the field, the electromagnetic
field of the body. And so we work on the field. And the interesting thing when you're working in
the field is it's purely the thought field. So this is where all of our thoughts, emotions,
the mental aspect of who we are, but this is what's influencing the way that the energy
is moving through the physical body. So think of them like streams. You guys were talking about
ancient Chinese medicine, right? So all those streams, you see those meridians, they get like
water flowing energy flowing through these streams, right? And it can't be stagnated. It can't be
stopped that Qi, right? A prana has to move, but that is all influenced by the field.
So there are answers in the field. I'm talking about your energy field. I'm talking about your
electromagnetic field and energy field. Yeah, your electromagnetic field. So what I tell people all
the time is there are a lot of answers for your health in the field. And this is in the thought
field because a lot of people, you're scrambled. Here's the question, doctor. Here's the question.
And I'm going to, I'm going to playing devil's advocate. Actually, it's more of most people
don't even know that part exists. No, I know. And I think we're coming into a place in culture and
time where we're beginning to recognize, no, we are an energetic system. We're not just an
ecosystem. You have an aura too, right? People are starting to understand the idea of an aura,
not necessarily chakras, but they have, you get good vibrations, you get good energy, right?
Those are just all kinds of semantics for kind of the same thing, but it's still very superficial.
I think we need a healthy language around it. Yeah, but guys, physics has proved all this stuff.
You know, it's funny, depending on who you talk to, the world is catching up to physics though.
Yeah. Yeah. But it's funny. The physics is there, the science is there, and we know this,
the body's electromagnetic. We've known this for a very long time. The body's an electromagnet.
It's just the way we function. And we're finally have tools now that are verifying presence of
our electromagnetic field. This actually has been tested. You know, at the conference I went to this
past year for NIS, Dr. Alan Phillips actually showed there's these neuroscientists and these,
what are these guys called? They're like some kind of neurobiologists, and they basically built a
machine and they hold it about five inches up off the head like this, and it measures the
electromagnetics coming off the brain. And so we actually are mapping and finding and able to
measure presence of this field. And that's what I work with all day. I work with the electromagnetics
around the brain and the body to bring balance back to the field and then also to the electric
body. But this, I mean, like you guys are saying, yeah, when a lot of people see this, like on my
Instagram, right? They watch my videos and they're like, whatever, man. But I love that.
Because it's kind of like, oh, I love it. I love when they-
From a skeptic, from an absolute-
I love skeptics.
Outside of this field. No, of course, Jonathan. Yeah. If you're not coming at this from any kind
of lens-
I'm too progressive, I guess. I don't know. I'm just-
Well, you've got to be open-minded. You come to it with a blank slate a lot of times.
No, I come with an awareness of Dr. Hawkins.
That's true. Yeah. And dispense that. Dr. Joe, this is Dr. Joe's category too about using the
mind to heal the body.
Absolutely. All stuff I work with all day.
People are beginning to become conscious of their own consciousness. And I think, like you said,
the energetic system, the field is what people are like, I think people would rather ignore it.
And it's easier to ignore it in the short term.
I don't know why. There's got to be a point where you get to a level where you can't
ignore it anymore.
I agree. And I think we're in that transition right now. I think people are getting to where
they can't ignore it anymore because they're understanding what we're doing isn't working.
And so they're willing, like we were saying earlier today, to look outside the box because
they're like, you know what, this is a- Yes.
Why not? Everyone's talking about this other stuff. Let's see what's here, right?
And you know, I was the same way, guys. You have to understand that. You're looking at a guy that
was like this coming out of school in a box. Yeah.
Yeah. And I had something that pushed me out of that box. Not everybody does.
I love that box. Not everybody has that. But I found nothing but opportunity, growth, and evolution
as a human being for myself, for my wife, for my family, for my practice, for my community,
for my town. And there's thousands of people benefiting it now because I learned something
and I had a pain-to-purpose type journey. So my life has led me from this journey to learning
tools that I've been able- There's things, guys, that I've been able to help people with now that
never in a million years would be able to help them with if I hadn't been on this journey.
Give us one example that kind of blows your mind and like, this is what I get to do.
Oh, buddy, every case that walks through my clinic almost is an example. So I see things,
I get people that come into me, for example, they have like 20% energy. They can't, there's this
excessively fatigued, they can't sleep, horrible digestion. I mean, for decades. I mean, just the
severity of the cases that walk into me and the fact that I can sit in front of that and not be
afraid and say, I can help this person. I'm going to get them better. That is the example. You know,
I have people, I have, I'll give you the, let's just go in the last couple of weeks. I had a guy
come in, he had a stroke two years ago, completely went numb in his left hand. Okay. He can't feel his
hand. The first NIS visit during the middle of the visit, his feeling came back in his hand.
Two years, no feeling in his hand. Had another guy's had pain down his leg, couldn't feel his
foot. He has almost dropped foot. After his first NIS, his foot came, the numbness stopped in his
foot, feeling came back in his foot. Stuff that he, I have patients that have been the doctors for
decades, haven't gotten well, they come into me, I'm able to help them get well because of the way
that I'm doing things now. And that's not to say I can't, guys, I can't fix everything. And there
are people that I turn away because I tell them, I can't help you because things, just some things
are out of my control to help. But just the severity of the case and the things that I'm able
to help guide people with and they're healing now, that is, that is, that is the beauty of what it is
now because- Puts you up every day. To be a doctor and being confident that you can help those types
of people is awesome because that wasn't me a long time ago. And there are doctors now that like,
they get scared of those types of patients. They'll push them out the door because they know they
can't help them. Are those the, so in a traditional racking crack since, are those the chronic
patients that never heal? So these are the ones-
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it, Jonathan. I'm the guy that everybody goes to after they've
tried everybody else and nothing worked. I'm the last guy.
Isn't that your journey? That's almost ironic. It is ironic, but yeah, I mean, literally I hear
that all the time. They look at me like, doc, I've gone everywhere. You're the last guy. I'm
hoping you can help me. I get that all the time. And you're like, I know exactly how you feel.
Yeah. I was like, that's my process. Oh yeah.
I have a question for you. What would you say to yourself coming out of college?
Like you get to sit with yourself for a beer for a half an hour. What would you tell yourself?
Cause that's, cause here's the thing. My best friend lived your journey. I'm, I like,
I'm watching your case and he didn't have the same wife case, but his journey of discovering
chiropractic work changed. And it's interesting to watch him. What would you say to yourself? What
would you, you know, I would tell myself to not be afraid of the unknown. That's awesome.
That's a good one. Yeah. Because I think when you're in school like that, right. And you're
being taught and being told, this is what it is. You want to, you want to do good, right? You want
to make your grades. You want to become a good doctor, but it's almost like you get forced in
this box of, I'm going to stay in the known of what they're telling me. This is what we know.
Right. The reality is we don't know. We don't, we know a little bit, but like I said, that piece,
I learned in the school, it's like this big and I don't use any of it. I use very little,
I use the foundation of my anatomy and my physiology, my biochemistry, my radiology,
all the basics that I got licensed to be a doctor. Yes, I use those things. But as far as like the
tools I use to assess and treat and like help people with now, I don't really use much of those
anymore. Aside from if I have to give a manual adjustment, I know how to do that. But like
not much of what I learned in school is used on a daily basis anymore, aside from like the understanding
of like neuroscience and some physiology. The rest is all energy. It's all energy.
What do you tell people when they come in wanting pain management?
So I don't really get a lot of those, but when I do, I just tell them, I say, like, we don't
chase pain in this clinic. And I tell them, I said, pain, pain, pain, pain.
How do you help them understand the distinction there? Cause I think you're, you can draw them in,
but I'm sure a lot of walk away because it's a scary journey to go beyond.
Yeah. Well, yeah, let's talk about that. So one of the things I explained right away is I talk
about the body has vital function demands. So I always educate their education is a big piece in
our practice. So I say, look, you have four vital function demands. The very first one is communication.
Then we have resources, response and reactivity. Those things have to happen effortless in your
body all the time. And your master system, your brain and spinal cord is that communication.
It's your broadcasting system. It's that streaming service that has to signal to over 70 trillion
cells all day long. And that can't be interrupted. There can't be any interference to that
communication. Otherwise we can't utilize resources. Your body can't have a proper response and you
can't have reactivity. And then I teach them the different layers of their nervous and their energy
systems. And I explain what each one does and how they all work together to give them regulation
on what I call coherence, basically a regulated nervous system. And then I tell them, these are
the things we're going to look at on you. We're going to look at adverse mechanical cord tension
and explain what cord tension is in the spinal column and how that's what creates the subluxation
pattern in the passive system, which is the vertebra. Which is why I don't like rack and
crack on chiropractic because you're not addressing cord tension. And that's why chiropractic gets a
bad name is because chiropractors are going to adjust people without unwinding the spinal cord.
And that's when an adjustment hurts and hurts somebody. The other thing we talk about is the
fascia. My understanding of the fascia is very different than what science wants to say it is,
because when you're in the US, science wants to tell you it's one thing, but you go on the world
level and they think of the fascia very differently. So I believe the fascia is another communication
network and it processes data and moves light energy through the body. That's where the fourth
phase of water takes place in our body is through our basically extracellular matrix. So I talk about
and explain the fascia in a very different way. It's 40% of our force control and our tensegrity
aspect of our bodies, but it is another communication system that moves faster than our
nervous system and it processes information. This is a very important system because it touches
every other system in the body. And my belief in the fascia network is that chronic disease starts
there. Because the moment that- It's not fun though to work in the CMT. I mean, I've had a CMT work on
me and that's not as much fun as getting a deep tissue massage. It's a lot more and it takes a
lot. It's not passive. You've got to be actually involved, right? Right. So we do a ton of fascia
work. I'm a big fan of John's Barnes work. So we do those long five to seven minute releases.
We do very drawn out fascia release in my clinic. That's another big piece of how we unwind the
spinal cord after I do the NIS and some of the other stuff that I do. And then we move in,
we talk about the active system, which is our muscles and tendons. They tether to bones. That's
60% of our force control, right? Muscles talk to glands, glands talk to muscles. So I explain to
the patient, look, your internal health is not separate from this structural stuff you're telling
me that hurts that you already have pain. When you lose structural integrity and you can't handle
force in different parts of your body, your brain tells you to experience pain. So that tells you,
hey, go and fix this, right? So we talk about the gland and the muscle picture. And I don't say a
gland, you know, we'll give a silent scream through a muscle and we'll see that where we have a loss
of integrity and signaling to your muscles where we have a loss of tone. And then I really spend a
lot of times on emotional mental health guys. I tell them, you know, there's a saying in chiropractic,
the spine is the back of the mind. If you're not in alignment in life with your mental emotional
health, you will not be in alignment, you know, in your spine or your nervous system. And that in
cases, all the subsystems that will affect every layer of your nervous system. And then guys,
the passive system is the last thing I talk about, which is the vertebra on the discs and the joints.
So I say, guys, the passive system is at the mercy of everything else I just discussed.
So if those other parts of your nervous system aren't in balance and healthy and well,
then you don't have structural integrity. Bones are just floating all day, joints are just floating.
So back to like my whole journey with chiropractic, I believe, and this isn't, I'm not knocking out
of the chiropractors because there are beautiful techniques where you can do manual adjusting and
make big changes in the spine. But I believe to get more healing of the individual on the table,
that pushing a bone into place manually is a very, very, very weak way of doing that.
Well, it's a symptom reliever. And I think that's what a lot of people come to doctors looking for
is they come for symptom relievers. And because I've actually had that great value out of
racking crack when it first came about. Oh, so have I. That was my chiropractor growing up.
Yeah. Yeah. I was an athlete. That was my journey. Yeah. I loved chiropractic. That's why I became a
chiropractor. But I had a rack and crack him guy, but he kept me going as an athlete. I was functional.
So again, it's great. But when people are really, really sick, it's not enough.
And I'm okay with saying that. But it's the questions that go deeper. Yeah. And those are
the emotional issues. Yeah. That are really embedded. Because where does body store emotion,
it stores it in the body. It stores it in the body. It's got trauma. Yep. Yep. And that's probably
what you see all day long. And that's going back to the video, your muscle testing. And help our
listeners understand muscle testing. Because I think I've known about it for about 15 years now.
And I think it's probably one of the most unique things you can ever learn on how to read your own
body. So muscle response testing, you know, it's been around for a while. And the basis of what
we're doing is, and I explain this all the time, is we're looking for vulnerability in your nervous
system. So what does that mean? Well, when we find a muscle that has integrity, you have strength
there. There's good tone in that muscle. If we give a small amount of pressure to that muscle,
there's resistance there. But it almost feels like a bungee when you're pushing. I'm not trying to
overpower the patient on the table. It's not a strength weakness contest. Okay. What we're actually
looking- Because you really only need about two fingers to push down in terms of your doing arm.
You really only need two fingers. And there's a difference there. Some muscles will lose a
little bit of tone. Some will lose a lot. So when you get really sensitive to muscle testing,
you can actually feel the tone difference depending on the circuitry that's blown in the body.
That's one thing. So it's not always a two-finger thing. Sometimes depending on the individual,
if he's a little more muscular, you're going to have to give a little bit more. And it really
depends on the individual on the table. I use surrogates and self-testing a lot in my clinic
because I have found that when you're using the patient a lot, it will distract from the answers.
Sometimes it slows things down because some patients are better at muscle testing than others.
And I don't have time to train everybody on the table. And a lot of my patients just like to kick
back when they come in. They don't want to sit there and be muscle testing me the whole time.
We do verify everything on the table with them as far as when something comes up and shows a
signal loss, I'll use verification and test the muscle on the table with the patient. But to scan,
I don't really sit there and sit and muscle test the patient over and over and over and over and
over. You know what I mean? And that's the old school way. Yeah, it is the old school way. I
get a lot of comments on my page where they're like, hey, what are you doing? What's the purpose
of the third person? And they're a surrogate. So I've trained all of my CAs are trained to do
pretty much everything that I do except for a chiropractic adjustment where they legally can't
do that. But the reality is like I've trained them all how to do muscle response testing. I test them
all how energy works. I take them through like a really like a three month deal when I hire them
so that they can become very good muscle testers. And what we're testing guys is really just what's
called an action potential. So when the body doesn't have a threshold of energy moving through
the system, there's going to be a loss of action potential in that muscle. And so you can feel that
change of tone. And so we're kind of working in this space between. So what I tell people is like,
look, it's not a strength weakness thing. I'm just trying to see like, do you have integrity
when I push a little bit and there's their tone in that muscle and if there's not, it's like the
ultimate lie detector test, honestly, because I've had it happen to me. And it's with the first time
you ever go through it, it's a freaky experience because you realize you can't lie to yourself.
Once you know this trick, you realize there's always a test a lot that you can prove you're
lying to yourself because it's your body has this very wild response to truth versus falsehood.
It really does. It wants integrity. And it's interesting because there's some people that
just they can't wrap their head around it. You know, I don't get as many of those through the
doors anymore, but in the past, I would get people they'd come in and like they would just look at me
during the assessment, like you're just pushing harder. And I'm like, no, I'm not. Like, and it's
just too much. And so I don't focus on those people because I'm here for the people that get it and
understand what I do. And if you don't, then I'm not here to like convince you. Right. It's just,
it's going to, you know, I'm going to, it's going to make sense to only so many people. Right. And
that's just with anything. So, I mean, we're really, it has to be comprehensive. Yeah. It has to be,
it has to be a give and take. You could treat the symptoms passively, right? You take the aspirin,
you have the minor adjustment. That's a passive kind of process, but it will even in a true hack,
you know, crack and what is it called? Rack and crack. That still takes a little bit of
work as you relax to that whole process. But yeah, if you really want to get to that,
you got to do the deep work on both sides, you know, and it has to become an ongoing process.
It's not a one point in time. Right. So absolutely. Well, and I wanted to just talk about,
you know, back to the muscle testing and I'll give a little bit about this, because I love the way
that this is explained was taught to me by Dr. Phillips. So he says, a muscle test is a sensory
motor response. Okay. The brain is sensing and responding and simultaneously with motor control.
So interruption to your nervous system will disrupt the action potential signal,
causing the strength and control the muscle to be depleted. So this is the beauty of this.
A sensory motor response will remain strong when the brain is congruent or recognizing associated
factors causing the stimulus. This is the difference between a strong and a weak test.
Now here's the thing. A blood test will determine a leukemia, but it doesn't explain why. An ultrasound
will show evidence of a fibroid, but it doesn't show why. Depression symptoms become obvious.
Biochemistry results don't explain why. An x-ray will demonstrate a congenital scoliosis,
but it doesn't explain why. Does a muscle test explain why? No, but it does suggest that for
some reason the brain is confused by virtue of a sensory motor indicator response. And this neat,
this promotes need to determine why such an acknowledgement has arisen and what evidence
has caused the aberration. So when we're doing muscle testing, we're not saying that the test
is giving the why. The test is showing us the fault, which is showing us the system and the
area of the systems and the parts of the body that aren't functioning properly together,
and why we're having this, this basically dis-ease in the body, this imbalance in the body,
this rhythm in the body. So that's the beauty of what we do when we're mapping the body and
using this type of work is, again, we're not finding the why. I'm not saying it's the why,
but it helps us determine acknowledgement that there is an issue here and it correlates with this.
And you can't get that with those other things like I just said. A blood test won't tell you that.
And guys, I look at blood all the time. I do functional medicine. Okay. So I run hormone
panels. I run Dutch panels. I run wellness, full blood functional panels. I mean, we do organic
acid tests. I mean, I do imaging. I do all those things, but this stuff has to line up with what
I'm seeing in those things so that I know where to go and where to address somebody's health.
So it's really just, you know, it's a blend of using the stuff I've learned with modern medicine,
right? And then I'm using ancient wisdom and ancient healing tools and we're blending them
together because I've learned a lot from both, but they both offer healing for the body. And like you
guys said, people don't understand that there's another energetic body. You're not just matter.
And you have to look into this part of the body to find more answers for your healing.
Hmm. Dr. I'm going to ask you a question and we can always edit this out if you don't feel
it's appropriate. What is your take on psychedelics in terms of their capacity to affect healing?
So, you know, I'm a big advocate for plant medicine. So whether, so, you know, I did a
podcast with my buddy. We have our podcast, the Dr. Dad's podcast, and we did a really neat episode
called Plant Medicines with a guy that basically helps organize. And he's kind of like the in-between
guy that'll send you to retreats all over the world, depending on like what experience or
answers you're looking for. And he'll tell you, well, maybe looking at this type of plant medicine
or you can do this over here on this retreat. And this is a good retreat for that. But he pushes a
lot of corporate people to different retreats all over the world. And we got a lot into different
types of plant medicines. We talked about psilocybin. I mean, we talked about ayahuasca.
We got into all these different conversations and I've met a lot of individuals that have
been on those journeys. My good buddy that I do my podcast with, he's a naturopath. He's done
ayahuasca, I think, at a retreat. And I've met people that have done psilocybin and they've
told me their experiences. And I'm a huge fan because I know I understand the neuroscience
of what some of those things are doing. For example, psilocybin and what it does with our brain
and lights our brain up and it makes more connections. And I've heard how people have
completely got that were had a horrible addiction problems completely came off of an addiction of
over a decade, two days from doing these types of things. I've heard of people, same thing,
massive depressive for multiple decades and one experience just not being depressed anymore.
So guys, with what I do, you look at those types of medicines? Absolutely. Because wherever
healing is available, there is a process involved with plant medicines. And that's the biggest
thing I always tell people is like, they're not for recreation. There is an intention and a process
that must be a manifestation of what you want to get out of that medicine. Right? And so there's
a journey with each of these things. And if you choose to actually go down those roads, then
you're choosing to take a journey, but there needs to be a massive amount of tension of why you're
using that tool in nature because of what it provides for you. Right? And then even after the
process, there's an integration that's going to take place. And then there's a still process there
of processing and integrating that experience so that you can make a positive change or whatever
that growth and involvement you want in your life. Right? And, you know, people, you know, I went to
a 3-H-O men's camp years back and we did Kundalini Yoga to achieve this. I didn't have to do plant
medicines. Me and my buddy did. We pretty much fasted all day long every day. We were doing like
five kriyas a day, about four and a half to five hours of Kundalini Yoga. We'd only eat once a day
and we did this for like five days straight. But by the end of the week, we had so much energy
moving through us that we were having like out of body experiences with Kundalini Yoga. It was
incredible. And the big reason I'm bringing that up is you don't always need these medicines to
achieve these types of things. There are other tools. There's breath work. There's yoga. There's
other things that'll get you there. Right? But the beauty, again, is there's a process.
There is an intention and a willingness to go on a journey with those things to get something out of it.
I like that approach because I have a friend we had on our podcast and he's been doing
Ayurvedic meditation for eight years. And I do Transcendental Meditation. Right? So there's that
place where you get to when you drop in for like that 15th minute and you just feel something
amazing. And it's physiological. You can feel a place. And we call it the unified field. But
he'd been doing this for so long that when he took psilocybin for the first time, he took a five
gram dosage, which is a hero's dose. Right? If you take five grams your first time, that's like,
oh shit, you're going all in. And it was iterative for him. He said, not mind blowing, but just really
kind of cool. And that's what happens when you're in that space. And even Alan Watts, he took acid
one time at LSD 25. And he saw consciousness. He saw oneness with creation. But his analogy was,
if you've got the message, if you get a phone call from the divine and you get understanding
of what that's like, you can hang up the phone. Right? You don't need to keep calling. You got
that. And that's what's so beautiful, I think, for a lot of people who maybe don't put the time or
energy into, because it does take time and energy to develop these kinds of mental breathwork,
practices, meditation, and to get into that. And it takes a lot of repetition. And sometimes I think
this world needs to wake up faster, not to the level that Timothy Leary where he says everybody
should just, we should. What happens when the Viet Cong put acid in the water supply, right? He
talks about this in the politics of ecstasy. And it's like, fucking just relax, dude. Enjoy the
ride. It's like, that's great. But that's not really totally helpful. Right. And so I think that
we have to, this is as a doctor, as somebody, you look at all of the environment, you look at
the patient themselves, you look at the symptoms and all that's going on. And then you kind of
move in and you realize what could be the best kind of symbiotic way to make this thing better.
You know, but I'm glad you're open to that. Yeah. Dr. I want to, we got time for two more questions,
Rich, so prep one. I want to ask you a question, Dr. how has it changed you as a person,
being a person of healing? You know, I think I have a lot of patients and, you know, I have young
patients that are, you know, teenagers and they're starting to figure out what, what do I want to do?
You know, you're early twenties, some people still haven't figured that out. I fortunately knew like
in middle school that this is what I wanted to do. But it's interesting the view of what I thought
that was going to look like and the role I was going to play as a chiropractor, like how I was
going to help those people. I knew I wanted to help people, but I chose chiropractic. But again,
I just thought I was going to be like my chiropractor. I was going to just be high volume,
just, you know, turning them out, man, cracking spines, helping people, getting people well.
And my journey with my wife and the way my practice has evolved and grown to the day,
to like right now, present day, I wake up feeling so grateful and blessed that I have people that
trust in us enough to walk through our doors and trust us in that space that we hold for them
to help them. And I feel very honored that I get to even be in that space with them.
Because it's a very, very, very, very important role to play for somebody to help guide them
when they're suffering. And I have witnessed an immense amount of suffering, not just with my
wife. I mean, I watched my wife, my mom suffer growing up with back problems and stuff, which is
probably why I chose to be a chiropractor. But I've watched a lot of suffering in my life. And so
to be in that space to have people come in that are suffering, and they're sitting in front of
you and they're looking for help, I'm very grateful and blessed and honored to be able to
be that person for them.
It's awesome.
That's awesome.
So Jonathan's probably going to ask how people can get in touch with you after we're done here.
But in your mind, is there a book or a site, and you had a lot of different, you've alluded to Dr.
Phillips, Dr. Brimhall and a couple others. Is there a place where if somebody in our audience is
starting to get peaked or they're trying to get interested and get themselves into a better place,
is there something, a resource that you'd, other than your site, which we'll talk about after this,
is there a place that you'd recommend people go to where they could kind of dig in and kind of
get a path to getting better, some good starting point to help them on this journey?
You know, interestingly enough, my default for that is Dr. Joe Dispenza's work. I usually tell
people to go watch, I tell people go watch Rewired. So have you guys seen his Rewired series?
So it's easy, right? Like not everybody wants to read a book, not everyone's going to listen to
podcasts, but most people will watch the TV if I tell them to go watch the TV. And that series
with the first episode will unlock a lot of things in your mind and you will create understanding
that will just start to cause a ripple effect of curiosity. And it's funny because I'll give that
to a lot of people and it just opens the box. And then people just start to roll forward. It's
beautiful to watch. Oh, it's beautiful to watch. And he's, I mean, he's helping so many people
globally, but to have that tool as a doctor to say, Hey, go check out this guy's work right now.
You know, while you're coming into me, but just start diving into this stuff while we're working
with you. And it just, it's, that's very powerful, very powerful.
It's kind of like going to the steam, we go into the sauna or the steam room before they come in
and get a massage, right? Kind of get yourself assimilated and open up, open up that consciousness
a little bit to absorb it, right? I love it.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Should our audience, like there's a couple of people that I can imagine. One is,
I want to go directly to you and please help us understand how people can find you. And then
what if they, do you do coaching? Cause I know coaching is a, is a modality now that is very
acceptable. Do you do that for people? We do do virtual. It just kind of depends on
the client and the situation, but people have reached out to us and we do do virtual stuff.
As far as people wanting to see me in the clinic coming from out of town, we do do virtual stuff.
We do do that as well. I have, we do have the availability sometimes to schedule maybe three
days in a row. One of the big things I'll share with people is I do a consult with you before
healing is a process. It is not an event. So a lot of times with some of these cases,
we're just trying to jumpstart some things. Maybe you go back home and have a practitioner
there that can keep you going. Cause I helped you find the root cause of where you need to focus.
And then I'm sorry, what was your other question, Jonathan?
Oh, where would they go if, what would you recommend if they don't have the capacity to
work directly with you? So reach out to me on my Instagram. It's wardy underscore wellness. I get
a lot of people every day from all over really the world that say, Hey, like can I find a
practitioner that does what you do near me? I usually will get them hooked up with a directory.
Sometimes I know a doctor in that area and I'll point them to a doctor that's similar to what I
do in that area. So I'm, I'm pretty, I'm on there probably at least once a day checking.
Cause I do all my social media stuff for the clinic. So I'll answer questions. If anybody
reaches out to me, has any questions, uh, just, yeah, just give me a message.
Awesome. Dr. It's been an absolute fantastic episode. I, I, and I know a lot about this stuff
and you've enlightened me in a wonderful way. I really appreciate it. And to all of our listeners,
this has been, it says, I always love these ones when we're talking about the body because it's,
there's so much rich detail to the body and how we operate, uh, to all of our listeners,
please comment, subscribe, and let us know if you have another guest. We've gotten a lot of
really good recommendations and we will see you next week. And if you're going into the weekend,
have a great week everybody.