Welcome to Living in the Matrix. I'm Jonathan and I'm left of center.
And I'm Rich and I tend to lean a little bit more to the right. But the bottom line is,
is together we try to look for the balance of what it means to be human in today's world.
All right. This is going to be a good one. Welcome everybody, Living in the Matrix. I'm Jonathan.
This is my co-host Rich. Say hello, Rich. Hey everybody. So great to be back. Hope
everybody's having a great Friday and my goodness, are we excited to have Whitney back?
We've had a lot to talk about. Yeah. It's going to be a fantastic show,
episode. So we have Whitney back. Last year we talked a lot about the Akasha records,
but that's sort of Whitney's passion project, but she's dove heavily into crypto. And so we're
going to dive in as well, because I've been in crypto for about five years, Rich, you've been
dabbling for a little while and kind of gotten into it. But Whitney has taken the deep dive and
I want to bring her on to really help us understand what it is to kind of understand how it's changing
the entire landscape, why it's valuable. So welcome to the show again, Whitney. It's wonderful to have
you. Thank you guys so much for having me. I'm so delighted to be here. Awesome. Awesome. So
let's start with you because last year you came on and you talked about the Akasha records. And I
think we talked a little bit about it crypto, but I want to take sort of a deep dive. So
where did you get started in crypto? Why don't we start there? Great. So just for, I find sometimes
when we're talking about crypto, there's so much like code and there's so many questions to things.
I just want to drop people into like the humanness of me. So first off, hey, I'm Whitney. I'm 30
years old. I currently right now live in Austin, Texas, born and raised originally in Massachusetts.
And I've lived all around the world since. Back, my crypto journey began actually when I was working
in the corporate world before I'd even heard all about crypto. But I like to say it's like the fuel
to like the curiosity in the beginning of like wanting to do something different always begins
with like that last, that previous life type of thing. So for me, January, 2020, I was living
and working in Washington, DC as a construction engineer. I had the salary, the career, the friends,
the family, like all the passions, the hobbies in between. And I was also in my spiritual awakening
process as well. And at that time I was like looking around, I was really deeply curious where
I was like, this engineering life, this stable, all these things, this is for someone else, but
is it for me? And so I kept it was back in the engineering field, I would walk around the office
and I would look into people's office, look into people's souls, really going around asking people
questions, like executives to be like, are any of these people, people who I would like to be in the
future? And time and time again, I kept saying, no, no, no, no, no. And all of this actually, for me,
it went back to as I was going around doing that discovery, I really wanted to know like, okay,
the money situation is fine in my world, the salary is fine. Like if I just keep on rinsing,
repeating like what else? So I wanted to know really-
Are you bored?
Oh, yeah.
Was it dissatisfaction? Because I think dissatisfaction is when something's
grating against you. Boredom is when it's not interesting. Like you can do it.
It wasn't bored. It was dissatisfaction. I deeply, deeply unfulfilled. I was like in the office.
And I would like be driving into the office every single morning saying like my affirmation or like
my future life of what I wanted. I was like, I want to be living in the island. I want to be
teaching women something of some sort. I want to be speaking. I want to be connecting with people.
Like I want impact. And I was like, this is not the life for me.
You had manifested this almost dissatisfaction because you wanted something and it wasn't that.
Is that fair to say?
Yes. And also like, I mean, the dissatisfaction was there because I was living honestly a life that
society wanted me to live. Like my dad was an engineer. My mom stayed at home. Like
it was very much like granted my mindset very much works in a way of an engineer, but
that lifestyle was not for me by any means. So anyways, when I was, I really wanted to know
like what does a dollar mean to me at that time? Cause I wanted to know like, well, if I can
understand what a dollar means to me, then I can also understand like where I want to put my energy,
where I'd feel most fulfilled and also like really what I want to create in this life.
And so that was a really, really subtle curiosity. But at that time, like I was teaching yoga,
meditation, manifestation, all while doing the corporate stuff. And I gave my notice and I left.
Is this going to go to Bali?
Yes. Yes, it's a yes. That's it. Okay. I remember that now.
So I gave my notice January, 2020 and I hopped on a plane over to Bali and was planning on
being there for four weeks as my like corporate detox. I get over into Bali and I was like amazed
where I was like, wait, there are all these different types of people. There was a huge
expat community and I was like, there's all these people doing different things in this world and
it's not the traditional corporate world, but there's like creatives and there's artists and
there's entrepreneurs and there's investors and all these people figuring out life and on their
own terms. And it was my first meal alone. I like walk into this vegan cafe and I like sit,
look down at this table and this guy's eating this beautiful food and I was like, what is this?
Like, tell me so I can order it. And then he's like, would you like to sit down? And so I was
like, yes, a friend on the first meal. Amazing. And sure enough, this guy sits, I sit down and
he started, we start swapping stories and he started talking to me about the financial world.
He's talked to me about the current system, how broken it is, the future of finance, where things
are shifting to the global things that are at play, how he's made money, like investing in finance
and having money work for him. And I was like, you are hitting me with all different forms of
curiosity. I need to know more. And so this man became, he kept talking to me about this stuff,
my curiosity, I kept on leaning in and wanting to know more. And he became my crypto mentor who then
also helped me pull my retirement fund out of Vanguard and put it into crypto and a few other
different assets so that I could personally manage my own money for my own self and really
understand like, what does a dollar mean to me? So 2020 for me was a time like this is also when
the world went upside down. So I'm in Bali and during this time, I'm like, ended up making over
to New Zealand, bought a friend with my bought a van with with my mentor at the time. So we all so
it was like, it was very much like, I went to like a deep, deep, deep spadical mode of like really
trying to understand this whole crypto world because I was like, I know it's part of the
future. I get it. Was the crypto journey started by that man?
Yes. Yeah. So he kind of catapulted you into this idea. Yes. Got it. Yes. I think the starting point
was that you were like, what am I going to do with my money? What is my dollar worth? I mean, that
was a fascinating question. That's a that's a big Genesis. It's a big switch. It's a big pivot.
And it's in that question is more of a relationship. It's not. It's yes, this money
game fits in, but it's it's a relationship to self. And I rental would be like, I'm going to
it's a relationship to self. And I rent a lot of this crypto stuff. It's actually a reflection
of self, like reflection of your emotions in the market, reflection of of where things are going,
what you trust, what you fear. It brings up all different things for so many reasons.
But anyways, it's super high level. That's more of a that's okay. That's what a lot of people are
really trying to understand is there's the everyday lives. And we need that's what I love about you is
you're not just asking the service questions, which is, oh, do I have a dollar today? You're asking
the question is, what is my life in relationship to this dollar? Because I've I've had money most of
my life. I came from a very well off family. And I have done very well in my career. But every person
has to sort of go through that relationship. Because when you don't have money, life gets weird,
you know? And so answer that question, I think is one of the more important high level questions.
That's why I caught my attention. Well, and on top of that, Jonathan, I think we're seeing this,
right? We not only are we seeing awakening, we talk about Aquarius, we talk about the divine feminine.
But one one one thing is absolutely you don't have to have any kind of sensitivity anything
this to see that the middle class is being annihilated, right? Every day, with big firms
buying up single family homes, with the dollar being squeezed with even commission, I guess,
I just saw this news that commission six percent commissions being eradicated for realtors. So I
think Whitney, you are at this perfect prescient time of of knowledge of sensitivity and not only
kind of a spiritual kinds of awakening that we talked about prior to the beginning of the
podcast. But there's actually you can't even it's not even a crapshoot to see that there's a lot of
pain and a lot of people suffering right now. I don't know how many times you guys might have
seen this, but I'm seeing, you know, young poor gals in who have graduated college have their degree,
you know, supposed to be doing their dream job, their dream life, because they've been told the
degree will get you there and they can't hardly make rent. And these people are working their
asses off with a freaking college degree and a full time job. Right. Anyway, I think your timing
is perfect. Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of timing, so I do want to even share my story around like
reward returns so people can start to understand some of the number side of things to regardless
of what background you have financially, because like the crypto asset class is there's a reason
that it brings a lot of fear because it brings a lot of euphoria and it brings a lot of like
too good to be true sensations coming up as well. So personally for myself, when I got into the
market, so when I when I took control of my money in March of 2020, I was playing with a few different
asset classes, basically trying to grow my bet my my money so that I could then have more crypto.
However, timing of the whole global world and how the markets played out with all the change,
my mentor and myself got it wrong. And so I ended up watching my 38k, which is what my starting
amount was go down to 25. How did that feel? Oh, that's a challenge to the quest. Like,
I thought I would. That was I was living in New Zealand. I was also living with my mentor
and my family was the entire time they were like, what are you doing? What did you need to get your
back over here? Go back to being your engineer self like get your salary, start working like,
you can't do these things. And I'm like, you don't understand like I'm learning so much every single
day so that I can, I'm learning for my future self. So that money works for me going forward.
And like, you guys don't get this, but I'm doing this for me for you for the future freedom for
more time that we can spend together. Like, I get this, it's like, just wait, like time will work
for me. So it tested a lot of things during that time. But ultimately, I stayed abroad and I stayed,
I kept my money in the market. And I find those moments, it's building the resiliency within the
human like within myself to be like, oh, I really am capable of so much more and I can, I can't,
I can't do these things. I can't do them. I can't. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do
that. I can't do those things. I can't judge people so much more and I can ask better questions and
I can figure out these answers. So I would wait for you to go forward. I want to call something
out to our listeners in Dr. Hawkins scale courage is the beginning of positive action. And that's
important in those kind of moments is the choice for it into the face of fear rather
than away from fear. That is what you did. So I kudos to that because that's a big move.
Thank, thank you. Thank you. Um, I, and I, I, the courage aspect feels like a muscle
that we just keep, like I personally just keep on the building and, and, and then, and
then every single day still like I'm, things keep getting bigger, things keep moving faster.
And I have to still remind myself, like I am choosing courage each time, but I'm just
choosing the timelines that I'm creating. So like if this alignment, if this timeline
is an alignment with the future that I want, then okay, some feelings are going to come
up. Let's move through them as I move into that future version of myself. I love it.
So, um, speaking of courage, okay, next up. Um, so, um, October, 2020, uh, when my portfolio
was sitting at 25 K, um, my mentor and I were looking at each other and we're like, we got
it wrong. We, we thought the market was going to take off, was going to dip at some point,
but instead, like when, when all the viruses and everything happened, when the world shut
down, but instead the markets went up, the printing machine went up and like money went
up, crypto went up, everything went up. And so we just looked back at each other and we
were like, we just have to admit, like we got things wrong. And it's like giving that
ego blow to yourself. I was like, I got it wrong and now I have to take a different action.
And so took my money out of, uh, I was in options contracts at the time and I put it
into crypto fully. And at that point, the 25 K at its lowest was sitting there. Um,
I was in particular for myself, I was in Cardano. We had researched so much out of that. We
knew that that was going to be a really good one at that time and at that cycle. Um, and
timing matters, which is why I bring it up. That might not be an investment for you now,
but it's just, that was at the time that was really great buy. Um, I got it at five cents
and um, I was between that one and hex and I ended up watching that 25 K rise up. We
January came along, hit a hundred K. And then that point, that was like a huge point where
I was like, I did it. I was like, mom, dad, see like, at that time it was just like, and
at that point I was also living back in Bali. So I was like, see, like life is life is good.
Life is good. Yeah. Here's the proof. Um, yeah. And then, uh, and then the market kept
on going. And so 200 K, 300 K, 400 K hit. I ended up hitting a high of five 50 K.
Wow. Out of 25 K. My gosh. That's a 20. Yeah. What is that? What is five times? Yeah. That's
awesome. Yeah. So I didn't, I say this and I didn't fully take profits on all that stuff
because of course when you're in your first, well, when you're in your first cycle, you
think that you're unstoppable in so many ways. Um, well, here's why this is important that
there in your journey, it's not like you're trying to figure it out. You hit it. And the
interesting part is, is that you're a, you're a 30 year old female who's, you know, it's
like you're young and it's possible. That's all I want to call it. I was, you took the
risk and it's possible and you're not speaking from, I'm trying to, you're speaking from,
I did it. And I want to give that credence to your journey because you did figure out
some things that really work. Thank you. I did. And, um, and then from that, I still
did take profits on a huge, huge, huge chunk. Didn't have to like, I never returned back
to the corporate world. Um, you got, see, in other words, remember that question, you're
trying to find the next thing and you found it and leaving the corporate world. What was
that like? Well, so quite honestly, it felt obvious that I was not going to be returning
back to the corporate world. When I gave my notice, I had a feeling and knowing, I was
like, this is, I'm not never ever coming back. I was trying to figure out a different way.
And, um, and I did, um, but, um, there's, there's something weird that happened. Like
the whole conversation itself talk about like exponential wealth. Maybe we can talk about
that later in the cycle, but when exponential wealth hits for, for everyone, for people,
for myself, there's something that happens where it just magnifies what still lives within.
Oh God. Yes. Yeah. And so still for myself, I was like sitting in my beautiful Villa in
Bali. It was like rainy season, just laying on the couch, like, like honestly learning
a lot still like learning more about quantum physics, more about how the universe works
and all these things. And I was like, okay, so if I created that, then like, how do I
create things in the world? And ultimately I'm like, it went back to, I was like, what
would actually bring me value and purpose and fulfillment with the impact that I would
give? Because now I have the freedom. I can do whatever I really want that my heart desires.
Um, but what would actually feel really good impact wise. And so that spark, my impact,
um, fulfillment, helping people. It was truly fulfillment. Yeah. Yeah. And ultimately, yeah.
And giving back perhaps, I have a tactical question because what you did, and this is
what would be in the minds of anybody who would engage with you is like, I can't wait
to take $200 to 20,000. Right. I mean, um, you know, um, uh, you know, Jonathan's son
thinks that one of the stocks that he granted to me, which is good Gensler is going to go
from worth a hundred dollars to, you know, a hundred thousand based on what that could
happen that the tax strategy, the technical question I have for you is a tax strategy.
Right. So you take 25 and you go to 500. Let's say you did write it and you sold at the right
time. Um, can we talk about that right now? Or we talk about that later? Are there implications
in the crypto world that are different than you would express, expect in a, in a, in a
capital gains kind of scenario in the stock market for those kinds of gains? Um, the tax
conversation is a whole loaded question. That's a whole nother conversation itself. I'm not
an expert in that stuff. Um, I've done, I can tell you guys, I've done like so much
research around this stuff because also like in 2022, when I was doing my taxes for 2021,
when everything was beautiful, I emotionally had like a lot of like, it's, it's, it can
feel hard and heavy at times because you still owe taxes like crypto to crypto. Technically
you still own, uh, you still owe a tax to it's a taxable event. So like if you sell
from Ethereum to Bitcoin, um, however, tax strategy kind of goes to more high level stuff.
So this is where like, you have to understand, like you have to ask yourself, what game am
I playing? What game do I want to play? And so, um, I feel like there would be a better
use of our time rather than some tax strategy. We'll do it. We'll do it on one off because
there's a lot of other people in this country that, I mean, the idea of crypto and web three
and the idea of avoiding the man, right? The idea is corporate world, corporate fan, and
that's, is they, they own my stuff. I would like to have autonomy. I want my NFTs. I want
my money. I'm, I want my creation. I'm doing creative work and all I'm trying to do is
get through life and help others. Right. I don't need to pay this and this and this and
this. Yeah. Yeah. Um, two things. First off in crypto, I think that a lot of, so, okay.
So if anyone, so either of you, cause I know you guys both own somewhat of crypto at different
points in time. Um, do you store your crypto on an exchange? Yes. Yes. Okay. So do you
own your crypto or does the exchange own your crypto? Is my question for you. Who do you
think? Uh, I would think the exchange is older. Technical record. I'm the owner, but I'm wondering
if you can tell me differently. I'm, and I, mine is an uneducated guess. Mine's not a
knowledge. So, so this is where, um, do you guys, did you remember hearing anything about
FTX Sam Bankman freed? Oh, of course. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Block by Celsius. These
are other examples of exchanges. And one thing I do want to share is anyone who does store
their crypto on an exchange, I personally do not. And I never will, um, is because like,
and if your money is on your exchange, the exchange owns your crypto. You don't. And
so if we're talking about sovereignty and owning your own money and having power to
them over you versus the man, um, a thing that I value deeply is being able to store
your crypto on a hardware wallet device. And that way money can actually be shifted into
the crypto is in your hand. So especially right now, if things change regulatory wise
and in the government policy wise around crypto and people are like, Oh, you're only able
to like move 5,000 out or play around with this or that. I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Like I don't play in those rules because I have taken my money out of first off out of
the traditional finance system. I've taken it into the crypto world and then I've taken
it off out of the centralized crypto world and I've taken it into my own hands. Physical,
physical. Yeah. And that was like gold. Yeah. It'd be almost like owning gold. Yeah. And
also when the I so I've been in crypto and I've been on a whole bunch of different ones
and I've created multiple wallets. The UX or the user experience on crypto is monstrous.
Terrible. It's, it's horrific. And it will not reach wide adoption until they solve that
problem. Yep. Yeah. Because the average person 40 and up is like, fuck that. Like it's so
hard. My son's like, Oh yeah, go get this a coasters wallet and all this. And it was
like, and it was like, wait a minute. Like you have to think in terms of old structures
and you guys are lucky because you, you started with crypto and it's part of your regulations.
So widespread adoption to my generation is going to require better UX. Yeah, I agree.
I'm excited for one that the UX does become better and smoother. I have a feeling a lot
of people have been saying 2030 feels like a year that that would be in. Um, and what
that would mean is collectively there would be less volatility in the market because more
people, the masses would be in. So as an investor, I like being in before that adoption gets
hit. So it's like, if, if, if, if you go out there and you hit the few extra buttons and
you learn the software to some degree, this is some of the stuff I teach. Cause I'm like,
it can be a lot more simplified to like pull your hand into the world of crypto and just
be like, it's this and that and that and that. And like, I mean, I started in the crypto
world and I didn't, my confidence was shot. Like I, I, this was a foreign language to
me. Like that guy talking to me when I was at the age of 26, when I was in Bali about
crypto was the second person that had ever spoken to me about crypto. One other, it was
one of the, my first one was just a friend who like owned Bitcoin, but like, I didn't
know what that stuff was. So, um, I share this because anyone who gets into crypto begins
with a zero base knowledge and a comfortability around this stuff. And time and time again,
the more action you take, the more you listen, the more, the more YouTube videos you watch,
the more questions you ask, the more that you learn little bit by little bit and you
build your confidence. So, um, personally, I had to really build my confidence cause
I did not feel that way, but yeah, I mean, anyone can do this.
Okay. Speaking of volatility and getting an early, what would you say to the skeptics
who think that a lot of these things, including the meme coins are nothing but a Ponzi scheme,
get enough people in, build it up enough, get the hell out before everybody else figures
it out and get out, get the hell out of dodge.
Yeah, I did it. I asked my software team, the average age is probably 35 and that's
the number one response they came up with is it's a Ponzi scheme. Yep. What do you say
to the people like that? But yeah, educate people.
I would zoom out first. I actually, I wanted to drop this conversation thread in first.
So the way I approach crypto is very much like an engineer. Um, as an engineer, I spot
problem solution, just like anything in the world. Um, there's problems in the world.
I want to be aligned to solutions. So the problem with crypto right now, like why do
you think crypto came to be? You guys tell me.
Uh, I've read this story of why Satoshi created Bitcoin. He's a CIA operative. That's, that's
what was the news that I sent to Travis today. You want me to read it for you right here?
What does it say? Bitcoin is a US CIA project. This is the conclusion reached by cryptographers
who provided the first evidence that Satoshi Nakamoto, Creative BTC is a former drug loaded
informant of US intelligence agencies, Paula Roo.
He's discovered that Nakamoto's first transaction to separate as this transaction was made by
Paul Lee Roo to health fitting on January 12th, 2009. These were amounts are now unknown
before our time.
I believe all that, that, that stuff feels more like propaganda, maybe propaganda than
anything. Um, but okay.
What's your question, Whitney? What is the answer to that question?
Um, so it was a big libertarian movement back in the, so it sounds about right. So Bitcoin
was formed in 2009. Yes, it was formed by Satoshi Nakamoto, an unknown person, um, still
unknown to this day. I actually think there's a lot of beauty in him being unknown him,
her, it being unknown. Um, because then there's no question, there's no like political stuff,
cancel culture around the leader. It's just the family guy. Yeah, it just, it just is.
So anyways, the whole movement was around these libertarians wanted the governments
to stop meddling with their business and their money stuff and for them to be able to transact
freely. And so the whole Bitcoin movement, the whole crypto movement has been funded
on decentralization of taking the power out from the corrupt, the few, shifting the power
into the people, into the hands of the many, having it governed on something instead of
like governed by humans making decisions of saying like, Hey, I want interest rates at
these. Hey, I want to turn the printing machine on at this time. Hey, I want these different
things that will benefit the few instead. Crypto is a place where it is governed by
the code. It's governed by like you come into the ecosystem, into the, into the blockchain,
into Bitcoin, into Ethereum, into whatever you're in. And the code is all transparent.
Of course. Yeah. It's all the rules. It's everyone can agree to it just because you
step into the space and the rules aren't going to change. So there was, so the reason I bring
this up is when we look at things, I invite you, it's like people say it's a scam. Okay.
It's not actually a scam, but ask yourself like, why is it a scam? But ultimately crypto's
here to be able to solve problem solution. And so we've been aligning. Hold on, before
you go forward, I think that's probably an important step at this point, because that's
a, that's the majority's opinion. Why do you believe it's not a scam? Like at what level
of conviction do you feel saying this, it is not a scam and give us at least a glimpse
into the reasoning behind that. First off, what is a scam? Scam is where someone's taking
your money. Purposeful deceit though. A scam is something where somebody's trying to, trying
to sell something that isn't real or using deceptive tactics to tell you something is
what it is and it's not behind the scenes. So it could be something that's selling as
a quality product and it's shabby or it's something that isn't even there. You know,
you're selling them, you know, I'm going to, yeah, it's deception. Who is deceiving you
when you're going into crypto? If it's made by rules that are neutral and there's code
that seems to be transparent and you have full visibility to what the rules are, then
I don't think there's actually any deception in that. If that's all a neutral code and
it's observable by everybody. I think the bigger concern is because of what happened
with Silk Road and Silk Road was essentially a drug place and they used Bitcoin as the
way they transacted. It gave it a sense of illegitimacy first and then second, there
were some pretty large hacks that took some of the crypto, which in theory, if crypto
works, you shouldn't be able to scam anybody. Okay. First off with some good, good, good
conversation points here. And anyone else who is thinking about what is a scam, what
is a scam here, I invite you to like pull out more use cases for yourself and dissect
it through this lens. So Silk Road, the example of what you're sharing, what I'm first seeing
is I'm like, well, yeah, of course it was an exchange of value. That's been the whole
job of it. Yes, it may have felt messy and ugly to some people or dirty because of what
people were exchanging values for, but ultimately it did its job and it allowed humans to transact
freely.
It didn't help, but it wasn't up into that. I mean, reasonably it doesn't fit in the scam
category.
Correct. And, and ultimately like when something is birthed, like, okay, when something is,
when anything new goes out into the world. So like even a TikTok, when that was put out
into the world, it initially started as a dancing app or like people dancing, whatever
it was musically. Yeah. Yep. And look how that's evolved. So it just takes the, the
first wave of adoption does not prove how the whole thing and the whole movement is
going to stand.
That is a good point. That is a good point because there is product change and shift
and versions and growth. That's how businesses thrive. I think you nailed the point is,
and if you really, at this point now you look backwards and see what is the value. It is
that exchange of relationship of what we call money. That is, I just want to know that if
I send Rich 50 bucks, he's going to get it.
Okay. That's, that's easy. But so everything we're talking about here is it's a free market.
Yeah.
There's a free market. There's a few points I want to bring up. One, it's a free market.
So the people ultimately, like it's, it's a, people choose what they want and explain
for our audience decentralized.
Yes. Let me get through some of these points.
That's like what you're talking about. Sorry.
Yes. But, but also like, okay. So free market is something where someone gets to choose,
they get to vote for the world that they want to see. So you get to use your money as a
vote as energy, exactly what it is. And so what the, when Bitcoin was birthed, the example
that we're using with Silk Road is saying that the first batch that went out, people
said, Hey, this is a use case. Like I can use this right now. This is a need for me.
And people made the agreement. It's the same thing back in the day with bartering. So we're
just simply seeing, like, I love studying crypto through the lens of like the evolution
of money, how we've gone through it.
Crypto is just a movement. It's a movement of people. It's a movement of money. It's
a movement of energy and it's a movement of change. So it's saying like, there are problems.
We want to align to solutions. And so this brings us beautifully into decentralization.
There's another thing I want to jump in first. Nope. We're going to go into decentralization.
So with decentralization, what we have is, okay, so we're going to go back to problem
solution. So we currently live in a world that is quite centralized. What are examples
that you guys know that are that's a form of central centralization in our financial
system?
Taxes.
FDIC. I've got a certain amount of money and it's insured. I'm seeing in the UK, they start,
somebody wants to pull out $5,000. There's like, what do you want this for? It's like,
whoa, that's my money. What do you what are you asking me what I want to do with this
money right now? Right? That's kind of scary.
Yep. Those are great. And if we want to zoom it even further back, so the government is
centralization. Another form, so banks, another form of centralization. Companies like anything
that has a C suite of employees, where humans make decisions. That's an example of centralization
because I like I really like this diagram where it's like, if you picture like, a network
of like people, so like circles, a central sense. Yeah, so a network of people who are
all together centralized one has like circle one circle in the middle and all the arrows
point back to the centralized.
Yes. Yes.
And then the other one for a network is the arrows just go side to side, like everyone's
connected on a web. And so centralization is when one centerpiece, the whole network
revolves around the centerpiece making decisions versus decentralization is that everyone is
a node. Everyone is connected. Everyone like
Everyone can see, can have visibility. Yeah. And I think that's to me, this is the best
argument for it, because it decentralizes the money structure of the world. And that
is the movement I see happening. Would you agree with that?
Yes. Oh my god. Oh my god currency to the crypto world.
Well, and the people determine the value, not some central arbiter. Isn't that also
correct? Is it collective? Yes. Yes. So the people do. And so this is also one other point
that I really wanted to bring up is each crypto. So there's there's 10 there's 20,000 and beyond
cryptocurrencies out there. Each crypto is not created the same. So even if we want to
get back into the scam conversation,
I think we're past it. Well, no, we're going back in because
it's important to because there are there really are some things to be aware of and
concerned. Yeah. So there are examples. There are 100% examples of scams in crypto. Oh,
yeah. Okay. However, the scams that happen in crypto, they go back to the founders or
they go back to the founding team or people that get involved who are called bad actors.
And those are the people that want to rug pull money from people.
And Benjamin Fried, perfect example, right? FTX, right?
Yeah. And even like we can see examples of other aspects of things. And that's where
people get fear where they're just like, Oh, well, what's happening? And it's like, well,
this is where personally for I when I'm looking at crypto projects and understanding if an
investment is for me and if I want to be a long term investor, I always go back to the
founder because frequently the founder, if I can trust the founder and I can understand
their intentions, their energy behind it, then odds are like if they feel like they're
a good actor and they're not going to scam me, they're not going to pull the money from
me. I think they're gonna be pretty good that it's not going to be a scam and it's not going
to check that box. So when people are doing the research around different cryptos, just
realize all cryptos are not created the same. All code is not created the same. All founders
not created the same. The energy that is infused into each network matters a lot. So I always
go back to the founder. Let's break down because at this point, I think the legitimacy of the
reason for crypto is there. And I want to establish that as a basis for our listeners
that I definitely believe in crypto because of the decentralized nature of the control
of money. I think that's its central purpose. And if you can iron out all of the issues
like Bitcoin, I can never see it being adopted because it's an energy nightmare. Okay. It's
got a, it has a fundamental-
Because the actual physical energy consumed in-
It is insurmountable. It is insurmountable. That's my only tension with Bitcoin. It's
going to make a lot of money and at some point it's going to reach a threshold that's going
to crash. But crypto and like why there are 20,000 of them is because each serves a potential
purpose in the chain. Can you help our listeners understand that? That there are a lot of good
actors who are trying to create utilities for them. Can you unpack that a little bit?
Yeah. Okay. The best way, I actually want to drop back in. So the best way that I like
to see this is problem solution. The existing financial system is broken in many ways. And-
Agreed.
We can see this in numerous ways. We've talked a lot about the money, the banking, people
controlling our stuff in these ways. And honestly, I think there's a lot of market manipulation
and things where the one person is trying to benefit themselves. It's very much trying
to see the mainstream narrative to be like, where are things shifting to? And so a big
part that I like to see is, okay, so the old system is fading. What we're doing with crypto
is we're building the future of finance. And to build the future of finance, it's not going
to be one thing. It's not going to just be like the US dollar being the global reserve.
We have to create a whole different economy for this to exist in flow and to also have
a good user experience so that more people can adopt it and not even realize that they're
using crypto. So that's ultimately the end goal. But what is happening right now, the
reason that there's so many different elements to it, it's very much like the dot com boom.
Very similar energies and similar timelines. The internet came online back in the 2000s,
where it not came online, but you got it. It boomed in many ways. And the same thing's
happening with crypto right now, where it's like, we have to create all these different
tools for you as the user, you as the investor. There's just so many different use cases that
to the person who is just getting in crypto wouldn't particularly get. But okay, let me
use some examples. So like in crypto, there's within each industry, you can find different
subsets of different projects, like projects are also the example of coins, networks or
blockchains. It's just each investment serves a different purpose. Different industries
include the gaming industry, there's a whole like game, game, fi industry. DeFi is decentralized
finance. That's the whole industry itself. But very big. Real estate has its own thing.
The product is it's not product distribution, but it's like sending like shipments around
the world's supply chain. Yeah. Basically, every single health care education, basically
anything that has information or values exchanged, like money exchanged, can have some use case
of working with crypto. Because ultimately, what they're doing is they're using blockchain
technology. And so fundamentally, like this is where okay, crypto is a sparkly thing.
You don't necessarily have to know how crypto works. But the reason that it's helpful to
understand how it works is so that you can understand like how you can trust it. So you
can understand like that your transactions go through to each other. But then you can
also start to see a few more of like the use cases, like how else can this form and sculpt
the future that I'm stepping into with this world? And so for you guys, what is the blockchain
that you guys know of? So my son instructed me is the it's essentially the ledger. It's
a shared ledger that everybody has access to. And you have individuals who mine that data
and approve it. They agree to it. So in other words, there's always a head check on it.
And that's essentially the idea. It's a decentralized structure that everybody can tap into that
is a ledger. Yes. Did I get that right? Yeah, yeah. Used more. I don't love using the word
ledger for beginners. But in like the way I like to balance sheet, what would you lock
it lock it a key? I mean, there's a transactional nature of it. There's actually in a secure
kind of a something that has to go through it. There's a process by which it's it's verified
or it's legitimized. Right? Yep, exactly. So the blockchain is the space where your
information becomes secure so that like the why why is it so important to have your information
secure and verified in so many ways is because let's say you like Jonathan sends rich five
five coins and you rich you log back into your account and you're like, oh, the coins
are there yet you go in a week later and you're like, where'd my five coins go? If someone
went in and changed the number for you, are you going to have trust that the system works
for you? So the trust ultimately, I love to see all the different ways that trust is built
and having code having the blockchain there verifies and secures that the information
is safe. It's secure. It cannot be tampered with. It cannot be changed, transferred, changed.
It's sent out across the network so that everyone in the network can look up the transactions,
look up the information. And that way we as humans can trust that the system works for
us that when we send it across the code, it's safe and secure. So it's a win win in so many
different ways. And it's also very important. And I don't have you guys ever watched the
show billions? No. Okay, Jonathan, there's a scene in billions where the guys who's taken
over for Axelrod, he's got his bald, he's like $10 billion of crypto in these boxes
that you have to have the code. If you don't get it after the ninth time, nobody gets that.
And some guy probably I heard about some guy who lost his password. Everything was sitting
waiting and he couldn't access it. It was just lost. So there is the downside of it.
But as long as you've got that you're good to go. Is that is that is that a reality?
Whitney in terms of, hey, man, if you lose that, then you could be screwed though. Oh
my God, absolutely. And this is for my own self. This is why I personally practice and
preach so much around security. So it's like, if so, I get, I understand why people want
to keep their money on the exchange. First off, some people don't understand that like
the exchange owns your money, but also taking crypto into your own hands means that you
have to build security mechanisms to work for you.
Right. And also like you, I tell everyone in my, in my world, I'm like, when you're
getting your, so what you're referring to with the seed phrase with the words is a phrase
that's usually 12 to 24 words. You can have more depending on how you custom, how you
create it. But those 12 to 24 words, if you plug it into a hardware wallet, a wallet online,
you can recover and restore your crypto and then send it to people as need. Very good.
Whoever knows those 12 words, like let's say you take a picture on your phone and it gets
uploaded to the cloud and then your information on the cloud gets leaked in five years. Well,
because those words were on the cloud, now hackers and scammers may own your money and
not you. So the 12 having those words and having them in systems that personally I tell
people, don't take pictures, don't put it into last pass or password keepers, don't
put into notepads, don't type it into your computer. I store it in metal. And I have
a few other systems of like encryption that I help people with, but like security matters
so much. And once you build those systems at the beginning, you can sleep and be like,
oh, my money's working for me. It's fine.
That's where the maturity of the economy is not there yet for crypto that can take care
of those end user problems because there are a lot of those. And I think when people don't
like change, so the idea of switching from hard cash or fiat money to crypto, that's
like, shit, don't make me do it. Most people are going to be late adopters. Like I'm an
early adopter, but I mean, living your entire life. So there are, there still needs to be
a lot of end user products that help people manage because the management of the crypto
is going to be a new economy. It is. Yeah. It will be going to be similar to like a cash
app where it's very simple. Someone manages it and protects it. And that centralized protection
is really where people are going to be. So yeah. Yeah. So earlier, Whitney, you're talking
about how these different cryptocurrencies, I don't know if you call them coins, are used
in different industries, right? You mentioned healthcare or supply chain. And that got me
thinking about something you said earlier is about one of the things as an engineer,
observing things like this, you start to see patterns, right? And this is where I think
things could get really exciting because if you have your mind on the pulse of things
that are in demand or that are requiring, definitely visibility or any kind of demand
and energy, I think you can start to see how you can get in those early stages. Can you
help the audience understand where you start to see these patterns and how your experience
can help navigate some of these things to help people more comfortable, feel more comfortable
about it? Yeah. Excellent question. This is one of my favorite topics. So personally,
when I was, so like last, so in my first cycle, when in 2021, I watched the 25K go over to
half a million, I was like, whoa, like my mentor, he was doing all this research before
I met him to be able to spot of all, at that point, it was like of 10,000 cryptos. How
do you spot the ones that are going to be home runs that are going to have like for
my own self? I find, I personally am someone who, well, at conservatively, when I say this
to people, like I'm an 11X investor, like I find at least cryptos that have 11X potential,
like realistically 11X. But quite honestly, it's usually more like 30, 40, 50X returns.
And I got it down. So I studied in the cycle where I was just like, okay, he helped me
out in that way. Now, how do I reverse engineer what he taught me and really try to create
a formula to be able to spot high growth cryptos? So that's what I teach today to people is
like, how do you start to train your mind? And a lot of this goes back to like, we're
in like, we're in the information era right now. There's so much information, especially
in the crypto world. So many people are throwing things at us. But I find to be able to spot
patterns and to be able to find those high growth cryptos, you have to start to come
in with like, oh, first off, a wanting and a goal of like, okay, I actually want to find
those ones that are like innovative, that are solving problems. I want to ask a series
of questions to understand like, hey, how is the founder? Is there something of value
here? Is the timing now? What are some of the other competitors out there like? And
so I teach like a whole bundle of different questions to ask because there's a lot of
different information out there, but it's around creating like it's yes, finding them.
But more than anything, it's once you find them, it's asking yourself the right questions
to be able to create like a list, I like to say, a thesis or a conviction. Like, this
is why I'm in it. This is the probability that these things could happen. And these
are also the risks. This is the potential that it could not be it might not be adopted
at this time. And so for an investor, I think one of the first things is like, you have
to come into the space, the crypto space, which is already filled with so much dopamine,
so much so many people wanting to get rich, so much like frenzy energy. And there's a
lot of traders in there who are just like trying to make make a cheap thing. My experience
is if you actually want to invest in something that that has growth in this cycle, you have
to be able to come in with the mindset that you want to do things differently than masses.
You want to come in with a grounding approach that you want to study patterns. You want
to study the market cycle timing pattern like a big one is like, if you don't see the timing
of the market being like how how it occurs every four years, how there's lows and there's
highs and you have to sell the highs and you have to buy the lows. Like if you don't hit
those, you're just you're going to miss the whole crypto game and you're going to find
your money going way, way, way, way up and then maybe way, way, way, way down. And then
you're going to be like, I missed it. So when I'm looking at cryptos, like I have a four
part formula and I like to say you have to get the what you buy correct. So like the
coins when you buy. So the entry when you sell the exit. So use the time to work for
you. And then lastly, it's the systems and security. So you can onboard off board, navigate
things and store your money so you can stay in the game. Super, super, super high level.
But if you keep it high level, you can save yourself a lot of the like frenzy energy in
the crypto world and be like, this is my plan. These are the parts I have to nail. I was
going to say these are the fundamentals. These are the things high level are fundamentals.
There are things you do repeatedly over and over and over and over and over and over and
over to their automatic. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to ask because I, I saw Doge a while
back go from five, six, seven cents to almost 69, 72 cents. And then it just came back to
earth. And I don't remember a lot of the other stocks back then, but was that a cycle? So
and did Ethereum and Bitcoin and any other crypto follow that? Or is that something that
Elon might have done to bump it with with Tesla? I do remember that that particular
spike in Dogecoin. Yeah, this is a fun study case study. Okay, cool. So first off, rich,
my question for you is why did you buy Dogecoin? Because it was cheap, because it seemed like
something fun. And I bought it. I could have bought it when it was five cents. I bought
it at 39. I watched it go to 70 something or 69 or 72. And I just held on to it. And
it was just pretty ugly. So anyway, that's why I bought it. It seemed like a it's it's
cheap, right? It seemed like it really reasonable. Why not? Like, let's see what happens. Did
you buy in before or after Elon started talking about it? Probably after unfortunately, if
it hit 39, it was probably way after. Yeah. Yeah, because it hit a high I'm looking at
the chart right now it hit a high of 57 cents and may 21. So okay. Dogecoin definitely hit
the same market cycle. Okay, so we're gonna break down. We're gonna break down a little
of what what went on with Dogecoin. Let me find you guys were on my screen. Okay, so
first off, Dogecoin is what you like to call a meme coin. meme coins are something that
like literally like a meme on the internet is like a frog. Yeah, it's a cute gif. It's
a cute image of something being like, oh, and so that was even the meme, the social
phenomenon was by cute Doge dog doggy coin. Doggy coin go to the moon. Like, the crazy
thing is the way humans have work is sometimes that does work. However, and sometimes things
go to the moon. And in particular, it like Dogecoin was around for so many years before
it even came on the radar with with Elon. But the benefit of meme coins is that people
are putting things out there and they're hoping that society humans pick it up in some way,
from Dogecoin was one of the meme coins that got lucky. I particularly don't love investing
in meme coins. I have a very small, very small amount of my portfolio that to do so. And
I like to call those lottery tickets there. Because you never know how things are going
to go. It's speculation at its finest. And you can there's there's a whole different
science to that one, because you're truly spotting how humans move and how humans adopt
things. But meet but Dogecoin got lucky that Elon blessed it. And Elon, of course, has
influence and people know that anything on touches like things that he's doing, he he
will make any part of the future he's like weaving things in. So this is where of course,
the time to invest would have been before Elon spoke about it. However, the time to
invest like if it was back then, you would have been thought is absolutely crazy to put
any money into this little dog coin. Because there was no value, there was no one else
really talking about a value besides people on the internet speculating about it. And
I think that did somewhat influence the whole scam concept is like because meme coins, like
I've wrestled with that one. Like I'm a believer in crypto. But I'm not a believer in memes.
I've never seen like I get the party aspect and the project aspect that it's but it doesn't
serve utility. And I think because what ultimately the bigger question people are asking here
is at what point is it going to switch from $1 to what crypto because there's 20,000,
there's probably another 20,000 next year. At what point are we going to have another
dollar that just transaction that transacts energy? So here's my energy because that's
really what money is. It's my promised value to perform over time. And the like how do
I take care of that, protect it and give it away when I want to. So and do it at the lowest
cost possible. And I think that's why the decentralized nature is if we can keep the
cost because basically fiat systems have so many middlemen in the process with taxes and
sales tax and tax again and then it's how do we get rid of the middleman? And that's
a loss of power that is happening in the shift. I know that's a real high level thing. But
it's that's where the world is is like what what is going to be the money of the future?
I want to go back because we're sort of nearing the end of our time. But I want to enrich.
I'll let you leave with one more question is answer your question so far. How what is
your relationship of money and how is it different now? Question that you went into this whole
journey with how has it changed? My relationship to money is not just about money. It is about
my energy of where I want to be in the world. My energy of because how I spend my energy
is my greatest currency. It's also a space right now like from from my own self, my own
business. I am very, very, very much in demand. And I've had no shortage of work. So it's
when people want my time, that's also worth something for my own self to be like, well,
my money, my energy literally in this moment does cost energy at a certain point. And so
for me, it's been my relationship to money has had me be a lot more discerning around
the spaces that I say yes to, in a way where I'm like, I say yes to things that are alignment
for me. And I know that now my yes is stronger because also my no is stronger. I know that
the places I go I'm meant to be at and therefore I'm unapologetically fully presently there.
So for me, I've gotten this richness of life by shifting my own relationship to money.
And it's a constant evolution or like the relationship relationships never have an end
point. But I now have a greater curiosity for myself around where I want to put myself
where I want to put myself when I'm shifting like an abundant mindset versus a scarce mindset.
I'm just like much more attuned with my energy and what I want to create in the world and
how I'm really creating my world. So it's been a really beautiful reflection of my own
relationship to my power.
Well, I think that's the big biggest part. We talk about the matrix here, all the tension
ality and the matrix is really that scarcity mindset. And that to me is the biggest shift
happening is the world is waking up to an abundance mindset. And that's what I love
about your story. If you watch Whitney on Instagram or any of your platforms, I love
your energy and passion of being free to be who you are. That's to me the most valuable
part of your what you're sharing is you've changed your relationship to money and it's
giving you a sense of freedom that has allowed you to enjoy your life. That's that's what
it seems like.
Yeah.
Well, I could tell some of the urgency in one of your recent reels. Whitney is like,
guys just listen to me. This is important. And I could just tell you've absorbed it,
you've channeled it and now you're trying to give back in a way. I think that we're
trying to democratize this. And this goes back to my conversation about this poor middle
class and these poor boomers. Everybody's talking about my dad made $72,000 a year,
bought a house, we had five kids, everybody thrived, we had a boat house, we had a second
house. And there's no way in heck I could even afford my rent today, right? Let alone
even dream about having a house. And one of the things that I would like to ask you is,
how do you have a conversation with a recent college graduate or even somebody who is,
you know, waiting tables and they're able to sock away 50, 100 bucks a week. And they're
just, this is, they're knowing that just they know they need to do it. They don't spend
on a lottery ticket. How can you help? Or how can you envision a world where somebody
with just 100, 200 bucks a month can actually possibly make a difference in their lives
and have a hope of something down the road? And this is what we're talking about. We're
talking about how are we allowing the proletariat, the poor, you know, kid or young person out
there who doesn't really have a chance to try to have some leverage in the world in
the future, because it's kind of depressing, quite frankly, right?
Yeah, yeah, it is. Great question. So my quick, my first thing, so going back to the very
beginning, we talked about action. Yeah, the courage that comes with the action. And so
this is a time right now, like I haven't, the urgency I was talking about was really
like, in short, in crypto, there's every four years, there's a cycle, there's a, there's
a bull market cycle, bull market, bull market means price goes up and it goes up very, very
fast. So that thing that I was able to ride where it went from 25 K to half a million
and some like I've said this before, like I got lucky because the timing was really
good and really right. And at the same time, like I genuinely did get really lucky when
I did meet my mentor and the callings and everything, like there are certain times to
go in this year, this year, year and a half is going to be huge. So it's a matter of if
you are here right now listening to this, just start off and go buy, go buy some crypto.
And like, this is not financial advice because I'm not a financial advisor. There's you cannot
be a financial advisor in crypto. But if I were to tell it to tell someone to begin,
here's an easier way to say it. If you had $10,000, what would you buy right now? Don't
give advice, but 10,000, a hundred, 500. Yeah.
Even if I had 20, if I had 50, the one thing I would go tell you to buy right now is Ethereum.
In particular, here's my reason why I love finding high growth cryptos between Bitcoin
and Ethereum. They both collectively have market adoption. Like it's true. People trust
it. It's not both of these. Neither of them are going anywhere. I have a stronger belief
around Ethereum and also Ethereum is younger. So it's been around, it came out in 2015 versus
Bitcoin, which is 2009. And just because it's younger, it has less market adoption. It's
not number one, it's number two. And what that means when it doesn't have as much market
adoption is it has more ability to grow. It's like the underdog or it's not even the underdog,
it's number two has more ability to grow to number one because it hasn't been seen by
as many people or doesn't have as much trust. So there's going to be a lot more meters
to come up. But if someone is just sitting on the sideline and wants some exposure and
doesn't want to necessarily get into gambling around or playing with Dogecoin and the different
things that come up with speculative meme coins and that type of stuff, and you don't
really want to go deep, deep, deep into things, I invite you to go do some research around
study the market cycle timings, understand how time works in the crypto world, and then
go deep into the Ethereum side of things. I'm not an Ethereum nut, but I will say for
beginners it's very easy to start to grasp some of this stuff and also to see growth
in a really big bold way.
Awesome. Winnie, so how can people find you? Because I want people to be able to find you
and I will put it in the show notes, but please let us know how people, what's the best way
to contact you?
Instagram is awesome. I'm so excited actually about my YouTube channel. So Whitney Magic
is my public name. My YouTube channel, I've been working with a guy and we're dropping
a lot more videos coming this week, some really revolutionary ways to be able to talk about
crypto and how to do crypto in a way that actually feels good in your body. The investing
way, spotting patterns, a lot of this conversation will be going into deeper topics in that aspect,
bring a lot of humanness to crypto.
Do you have any workshops coming up or any training?
I do. So on April, actually on, I don't know when this will be published, but Monday to
18th, my early bird special ends. And then for my five week program, this is a great
place for people to begin with crypto one-on-one. It's under $500 and it's in a group space
as well so that you get to grow together. And that course begins on April 2nd. So that's
in my link tree on my Instagram page on anything that is Whitney Magic related.
Awesome. Whitney, thank you so much. This has been as expected. It's always awesome
hanging out with you because I always learn so much from you. It's beautiful. Thank you
for joining us. And to all of our listeners, this has been another incredible episode of
Living in the Matrix. Please comment and review, subscribe if you can. We're also on Instagram
and YouTube. This has been a blast doing it. And Whitney, thank you so much for joining
us again.
Thank you so much for having me. Range of questions. Loved it.
Love it. Yeah. Always awesome. Thank you so much.
All right. Much love, everybody. Have an awesome time. Whatever you're doing. Take care.