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Welcome to Living in the Matrix. I'm Jonathan and I'm left of center.

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And I'm Rich and I tend to lean a little bit more to the right. But the bottom line is,

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is together we try to look for the balance of what it means to be human in today's world.

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Welcome everybody, Living in the Matrix. I'm Jonathan. This is Rich. Say hello, Rich.

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Hey everybody. Excited to be back. And believe it or not, I think we've got three podcasts

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this week, but I'm most excited to chat with Nick, believe it or not. So great to be back.

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We've had a lot of topics, Nick, on Living in the Matrix and it has to deal with who are

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people that we can interact with that actually are living outside the status quo. We are,

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you know, even we started the premise, are we in a simulation, right? We're in a postmodern

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world who knows what is up, what's down. And we started with that kind of thing because

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sometimes it does feel like we're in a simulation, right? When you look at two people looking

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at the same exact idea and it's a completely different viewpoint. And a lot of the folks

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we've ended up noticing is that it's a lot of people who are really trying to help others

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out, right? People who have dealt with meditation and people who have done biohacking and fasting

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and stuff like that. Other folks who are Christian evangelicals, right? So universalists, right?

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So people who are outside of the traditional status quo. And I think you've come from a

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maybe somewhat Christian of a background. I think we talked about that a long time ago. But

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what I've noticed is that we were moving towards people who are also doing business. So we recently

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had a recruiter on. We had somebody who I've worked with at LinkedIn, who's developed a new

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business for longevity, right? An app and a program where you can get better. And I think

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one of the cool things that I noticed about your post recently is about how do we help with

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businesses and communities and things like this? And just to give a quick introduction for our

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listeners is Nick has just spent his whole life trying to take care of others vis-a-vis

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just the goodness of his heart or how it works with business. So I mean, in your teens, you started

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working with five and six year olds that were in underdeveloped neighborhoods. I think in your

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teens, you started helping with high schoolers and teenagers. In your 20s, you started doing

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additional stuff. You started working with the Milken Institute as one of 300 people. The way

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we met, of course, is you'd already developed your own app, which was called Here on Biz,

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which was totally cool. And for everybody who loves LinkedIn, this was an app where you'd actually

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fly into a new town and you'd open up the app and you'd see a group of people in your community

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that might have like-minded interests. And so that's what got me meeting Nick. And of course,

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I can't ignore the fact that you set me and one of my colleagues up with Gavin Newsom for a chat

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in San Francisco at the San Bernardino T-Lounge. So just wanted to make this introduction. And

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obviously, I'm going to let you talk about your new book that's coming out, The Innovation Collective,

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and why the kinds of conversations we're having today are so critical in terms of the landscape

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in the United States. We're in a tough situation. There's a lot of pain, suffering, loneliness,

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suicide. There's a lot of bleak stuff out there. And we're here to dig in, find out how we can

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heal ourselves, how we can heal our families and with the community, how can we make the nation

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a more prosperous place. So how's that sound for introduction?

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It's awesome. I super appreciate it. And it's fun to see you again and connect this way,

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kind of exploring our connection, but also with an audience and one of your friends. It's fun for me.

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So I do appreciate having me on. And the premise of the podcast of Living in the Matrix are kind

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of getting outside of it. I always love the movie. Most people who see it, I don't know. I can't

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think of a single person who's seen The Matrix that's like, it was a garbage movie. Yeah. And

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I think it's because it does speak to something in us that we might be right, we might be wrong,

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but that I think the one thing that we know is a big capital T truth, like a little T truth.

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A big capital T truth is that we all know that there's an optimal version of ourselves that we

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haven't yet unlocked. And I think that's something that Matrix plays with, is this idea that what's

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holding us back? Is it me? Is it a system? Is it both? Can I break through? And so I love the idea

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of a podcast that kind of dances with that big capital T truth and then allows for a lot of

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people to display their little T truth of like, here's what I think. Because I jokingly say,

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a lot of people have their theories on what happens after we die. And some people are emphatic

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that this is what heaven is like. And the only thing we know is that post-death, it's binary,

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either it's nothing, or it is ecstatic. That's it. It's all we know. It's going to be one or the

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other. So fun podcast for sure. Yeah. And maybe to give a little more color on my background for

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people too, to kind of fill in some of those gaps. My early years were really built around,

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my mom has a big heart and she's kind of makes Mary Poppins look like an asshole.

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Like she's just the kindest human and really introduced me to making a difference in viewing

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broken people as my peer. And so those are my friends as a kid and worked with kids who were

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awards in the state, like you mentioned, worked with schools and churches doing leadership

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development, built three different mobile technology companies. And then in my later years,

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discovered that there was a way to merge kind of my innovation thinking with my

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more social impact mind and addressing the fact that a lot of communities were struggling to

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build strong economies. And I believe that there was a way to build a strong community

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that built a strong economy and allowed for everyone to have a seat at the table as well.

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And so I've spent the last decade doing that. I've been to over 300 communities in the last

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10 years and have done work contractually in 12 different states, three different countries,

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all around building strong economies by building strong communities. And it's not as touchy feely

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like, let's all get together and sing songs. It's very strategic and integrates startup cities,

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best practices, a lot of the principles of what builds strong startups and integrates that into

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what's missing in culture for people. So it's been a fun journey over the last 10 years.

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Nick, you have a mom exactly like mine. And my mom did the same thing. She created what's called

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Recycle Sally, which is we would go down to impoverished neighborhoods and help people

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learn how to sew. And I helped her. And it was a process of thinking outside the box that,

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hey, everyone is welcome. My mom kind of, why did that make a difference in your life?

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Because it sounds like that was sort of a pivot point for you to say, oh, I like this.

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Totally, totally. It's interesting to kind of emphasize that for a second. I have some friends

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now who watch me over the last 10 years. And they said, Nick, you're living like someone who's

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retired that's giving back now in the world, but you're in your 20s and 30s, like in that 40s,

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what are you doing? Are you a philanthropist or are you a capitalist? I'm like, can't I be both?

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Why do I have to pick one? And I think a lot of it does come from that early exposure. And what it

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did for me was I think it shakes you out of this idea that your life is solely for the purpose of

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creating stability for yourself. And if you're living in a family where all you do is obsess

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over optimal self, so discipline, you need to do the dishes. Why? Because someday you're going to

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have your own house or clean your room because someday you'll have your own house. Very self-centric

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in learning how to behave and offer your intellect and your energy in a way that is in service of a

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better world, which is true. But that then can breed somebody who believes as long as they keep

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my head down and look out for me and then maybe do that for my kids, then that's winning. And

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the moment you start to get exposed to people who are journeying through life in a very vulnerable

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way where they can't hide their dysfunction like you might be able to, all of a sudden you start

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to use your energy and time, intellect in a manner to solve for their problems as well, which then

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has a knock-on behavior effect in your private life as well. So I think service infects your being

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for the long haul and it helps you realize we're all a part of a larger story and it's not just

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your story, is what it did for me. Do you think that larger story is based on just the goodness

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of humanity? From a secular humanist standpoint, you can say that. From a theological standpoint,

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you could graft that. Is it both? I mean, what are your underpinnings for that greater good?

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And where does that transition come from? I'm doing this because I've been told to,

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to you know what? This is actually amazing and I'm actually growing because of it, right?

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Totally. Totally. So it's a great question. So the personal answer is in my younger years,

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I acted in a manner to do service because there was this force energy that I think thought I was

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special, expected it out of me. And so I was like, that's what I do. Because you'd read these stories

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in the Bible and I actually took it serious. I grew up going to a private Christian school and

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it was kind of like a religious mutt. We went to anything from like trumpets and flag dancing to

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like pews and you know, a bunch of senior citizens and everything in between. So kind of saw my

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gamut of the Christian faith expressed in many different flavors. And I think originally I kind

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of acted out that service. But one was like, I didn't want to, you know, get left behind. I mean,

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you hear about like the rapture and people want to scare you and you're like, as a kid,

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you walk around the house and all of a sudden you can't find mom or dad or your sister, the dog.

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And you're like, shit, shit, I've been left behind. And then, you know, all of a sudden you see

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a neighbor and you're like, shit them too. And then you find your mom and you're like, okay,

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I'm safe. Mom's here. Dad, if dad was here, we might have some problems.

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But so I think a lot of it came out of a fear and a framework that was just kind of

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thrust upon me. So the larger story as I've grown up and matured

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is more now about this perspective that there is beauty and value. There's order and design.

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There's harmony. There is frequency that is harmonious. There's vibration that is harmonious.

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And when you dance in that harmony with another person, it's not about economic status or social

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status or political preference or anything else, but there's just a co-creation of beauty and value

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together. And that is maybe a humanistic way to say a very trite religious phrase, which is

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your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And I think a lot of people pass over that and think

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of it as some form of a, you know, there's clouds and angels and everything's going to be all neat

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once that's done. I've come to try and understand my personal understanding of what this thing we

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call God quite foolishly, whatever it is. This thing has designed a harmony and order. And when

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we dance with another and we start to explore beauty value and co-create it, it's awesome.

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And we're designed to love that. And so I think the larger meta story is about doing alchemy

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with humans and with the earth and casting spells with our minds and our hands to create

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more harmony. And when we do that, it is inherently co-creative. So you can't really do it in a silo

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because I need other people from under that level of alchemy. And that then creates mission and

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purpose and passion and pride and self. So.

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What comes out of the other side? You know, do we all end up in heaven holding hands, singing songs?

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I don't know.

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That's not really the point, is it? Because you're touching on things that I,

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that I've experienced is when you see the capacity to affect another life, you realize there's more

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to just being human than the selfish act. What you're doing is you're just doing it for the

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purpose of being human. And you realize there's more to just being human than the selfish act.

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What you're doing is you're saying, Oh, I'm going to co-create. So I'm going to include that inclusion.

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That's a, that's an experience. It's not just an idea. You must have experienced something.

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This is, I really like this. What was that?

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Yeah. Uh, great question. Experiencements that I really like this.

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At the earliest age, um, it would have been having a,

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a role model, which is like another person's mom who saw value in me and asked me to come work at

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her summer camp for kids who are awards of the state and said, you would make a good mentor.

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Would you come work for me? And this is when I was like in middle school or late elementary.

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And I got to work with kids who were five kindergartners that were awards of the state.

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And through that, um, just simply was a, a role model mentor would like play with these kids and

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help serve meals. I wasn't like a disciplinarian to these children at that age. Um, and I think

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through that, there was a sense of, I was asked to do something. I got compensated financially for it.

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And I was able to provide a positive experience for another that arguably was someone coming from

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a position of less than me because they didn't have parents. And I did. So I can say that

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emphatically that they had less than me. Uh, and so I think in that you have a positive,

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resonant experience. You're like, oh, that's cool. Um, and to, to maybe make a weird jump,

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there's a fascinating book, uh, that's called origins of virtue.

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And, and it looks at why are humans virtuous. And there's also another one that's fun called

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road to character is another great book, uh, that you would think both have a very different

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path based on the title. Not at all. Road to character is basically about really awesome

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human beings who are flaming pieces of shit at different points in their life and helps you

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really go, Oh, apparently how do we get to that character point? And like, we can still have an

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impact and beautiful. The other one origins of virtue is, is more about, uh, bugs, germs,

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and plants and how they cooperate and why, and then takes a bigger macro view at the human

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condition and makes you start to ask the question of why do we cooperate? How much of this is self

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preservation? How much of this is self service? And so, um, I still have real answers to that,

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but what I do know is to come back to what you were saying, Jonathan, is that you're

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saying, Jonathan is, I do believe we are created to create. And when we embrace our birthright

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as a creator to create value and beauty in service of the world, um, then it's fun.

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Hard stop. And, uh, I, I'm happier. I have more purpose, I have more pride. Um,

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I'm a passion and maybe it's in my self preservation, self interest, but damn it.

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It's also good for the world. I think, um, and if it is a simulation, uh, I prefer that lie than

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another one. But I think that's the, that's why it doesn't ever feel like a lie because it's consistently

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true that when you invest in the other, it's always reciprocated back. So the evidence for

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its truth comes from its experience. And I find that, uh, very valuable that the more that I love

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my neighbor, the more that it really comes back to me because I'm becoming love. Cosmically,

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Jonathan. Yeah, I would say cosmically because one on one you can give to somebody that might

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not be reciprocal. I've experienced that. I think you have too, right? So we're not expecting that.

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Reciprocation is not them loving me back. It's recognizing the experiential value of loving

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another person. Cause I did the same thing. My mom brought me to these events, all my childhood,

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growing up, she would always take me to places. Like when I was 25, she said, I just took a job

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at city team for drug rehab center. And she goes, why don't you go to a drug rehab center? And she

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said, why don't you come and do essentially what you were doing, Nick and helping guys get off

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drugs. And there was no reciprocation on their part. They had nothing to give me. They had to be,

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they had to almost be the example of what not to do. So it was terribly shameful. And my job was

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to go in and just love on them. But that practice of loving on them, I always got back in spades.

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Yeah. And so an interesting thing that I operate from is I have

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stopped trying to hold on to what I know to be true. And I try and operate from a place of what

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I believe to be true. Meaning, I don't know if it is cosmic. I can't emphatically say that.

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I don't know. I truly don't know that if we, if the three of us die, maybe that's it.

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Maybe. Like I can't say yes or no to anything else. I am, I am acting in assumed hope and faith of

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something else. And there's nothing wrong with having that. What I do know to be true is that

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I can speak emphatically that it's fun and it's better. And when I look at coming back to,

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there's a funny quote I really like, and it's one I use often with myself. And I tell other people

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this too. If you're having a bad day, tell yourself a better lie. Yeah. And it kind of helps you step

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back and realize how much of life is it we're running on stories we tell ourselves. And my

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actions are driven by those stories. And maybe by history of stories that other people have told

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themselves and genetics and how we've gotten to this moment. I don't know all those pieces,

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but what I do know is I want to run the experiment and break out of all the norms to continue to

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optimize my experience and share it with others in a way that I'm weeble wobbling my way to like

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this, this end state where I've composted my way into the grave with a big grin on my face versus

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some angry dumpster fire that's like inflamed and angry. And I think that's the right design

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that I think a God designed humanity for. And I might be making that up, but like, I don't know.

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So like that's me in a nutshell of like I've worked in the church, I've worked in

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third world spaces. And I, yeah, man, that's just where I sit in the moment.

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Yeah. So Nick, you have started a company called Aesop Industries and a very interesting sort of

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approach, which is human and economic performance. Unpack that. What does that mean? And tell us a

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little bit about what you do. Totally. So Aesop Industries, Aesop's fables are these like

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meaty little stories that stick with you. And if you chew on them, can lead you to living a better

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life. And our tagline is Aesop Industries, live a better story. And the human and economic performance

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component is holding two truths that seem to be at conflict with each other. One is the human

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condition, which are the things that we crave and want, belonging, purpose, family, community,

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laughter, all these fun touchy feely things. And then economic performance, jobs, tax base,

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stronger G&P. Yeah, security. And so you have corporations and governments and

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entities trying to drive this economic abundance. And then you have people who are like,

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I just want to be happy. And they feel at odds, I don't believe they are. And especially when

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you hold on to the belief that the core purpose of a human is to create. And so if that's our

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birthright, then if you can align the human act of creation and the human superpowers, the human needs

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for purpose, passion, and pride with this desire to grow economies and macroeconomic trends,

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you can create this kind of a Venn diagram, which is superpowers of the people, what the man wants,

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and what the world is moving towards. And you can find this little spot in the middle where

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everyone can start to look at it and say, I want to create X that I believe adds the most beauty and

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value to the world. And you build a social community around that. So as a company, ASAP industries,

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we intake what a client wants, typically government, family office, real estate developer,

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or a corporation. And what they typically want is better tax base, more employees, a more occupied

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campus, a resilient community, whatever. And they're spending billions and billions of dollars on

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these things. Often their approach to retaining people or to driving occupancy is trite. And

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a good example, most real estate developers put up these cliche posters that say, you know, work,

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live, play, and have a picture of a pool and someone playing volleyball or someone holding

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hands on a beach. So what are they doing? They're tricking you. They're like, if you live here,

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you'll have great chest hair and can play volleyball and some girl will want to hold your hand and you

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can drink wine. And so then people sign up for that. And then like they still have man boobs

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and like one chest hair out the front. And they're like, it didn't work. And so what we realized was

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what people really want and are paying a ridiculously high price. People are paying a ridiculously high

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price for purpose, shoddick growth, real community, chasing a better version of themselves. I find

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the phenomenon of what Silicon Valley is slash was, bonkers. People are willing to move across

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the country, live in cars, do whatever they can just to have a shot on goal, not so they can build

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a company. How many people go there with one company that they're going to start? Not a lot.

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They go there with an idea of who they want to become. And they build a handful of companies

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over their lives, right? They're chasing some role they believe they can play out. And so

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we as a company, we curate the super identity that maps back to the client's goals, the macro

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economic trends. And we help people embrace learning skills, setting goals, and being in

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community that helps the individual wobble towards this optimal sense of self that they're seeking.

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And we provide those experiences in that pathway with and alongside of and inside of the employer.

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So for a community or a real estate development, here's an example. Let's pretend you're a developer

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and you're building a 600 unit apartment complex with 340,000 square feet of commercial and mixed

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use retail, because that just sounds like a random number that I may be pulling out of my ass.

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And this developer, let's pretend is has a big anchor tenant that is interested in the future of

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gaming and entertainment. Wouldn't it be great instead of just saying, look, we have luxury

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apartments next to transit. Don't you want to stay here? Wouldn't it be great if you could create a

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series of inspiring talks, idea sharing sessions, weekend retreats, book clubs, and all these things

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that cause the employees of this gaming company and the whole community of people in the city to

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come together and attend these very sticky gatherings on site of this real estate campus.

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To where they're now all gathering as young people, senior citizens, mid-career startups,

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this large employer, and they all want to stay in the apartments because this is ground central

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of everyone becoming this version of that company. And so now it's a startup pipe for innovation.

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It's a community gathering. And what does it take to become a great leader of a business?

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Well, take professional skills. So we teach professional skills courses and we have

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training sessions, but it also takes personal growth, right? Your self-talk, your relationships,

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your health, money management. So we have curriculums and groups on that. And so we build

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out this whole, you know, kind of like a coaching platform around a vertical, but the campus and the

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culture of the people that becomes the coach. So what we do is we deploy that for cities, for real

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estate developers, for companies to solve their problem. It sounds complex and it is in some ways,

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but it's actually pretty stinking simple too.

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In the example of a company where you've got this, it's brilliant, right? Because you've got this

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idea of WeWork, but it's on steroids because the idea of WeWork was, oh, we have cucumber water.

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We have these really cool Wi-Fi speeds and stuff like that, but they missed the whole point of

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community. Everybody was doing their own thing. They were showing up in their own cube or not in

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their cube, right? And that whole idea of having this open space was that you could foster community,

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but it didn't come with that purpose. So how do you overcome the WeWork, you know, kind of issue?

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And let's say you are a company, not a real estate developer, and you really want to develop that

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pipeline. Jonathan also is in UX, right? So his, you know, pipeline of design, design thinking,

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those kinds of things to create that new experience is amazing. How do you inculcate

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the cult, even the pipeline of candidates, right? That would be a good fit almost because

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you could have a wide funnel, but how many of those folks would actually be successful

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and actually fostering this community? Is there a personality kind of type that would actually be

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beneficial? All these kinds of things. How can that cross that out?

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Yeah, it's a great question. I think so first and foremost, you asked the question about

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personality types. The personality type that we target in our experiences is an individual

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who is seeking something better and something more. So there are some individuals who think like,

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I'm fine. Okay, we might be able to provide you like a nice office and like some fun social

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settings and buzz around you or like maybe this campus is cool for you because there's energy

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there. There's those people, but the people we typically see are ones who are mid-career,

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maybe they're making a lot of money, but they're still longing for something more or something

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better. And we provide them with the structure to get them there. So then to the next question of

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like, what's the differentiator between like a WeWork that failed and a system that we've designed?

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The main differentiator is, I would argue two things. One, we're not looking at attracting

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you because the TI is great and it's the cucumber water. We're looking at providing you with two

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primary things. One is a strategy that unlocks your progress and journey. So it's a very

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structured experience. Think of it more as a pathway and less of an identity. Because like

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just saying that you're fancy doesn't mean you're fancy, right? Like you can't build a

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bouncy, right? Like you can't bippity boppity boop your way to meaningful community. You have to

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actually structure a pathway to get you there. So when someone on boards into our communities,

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it's a whole process of you declaring key things, having audits, attending multi-day

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leadership summits. I mean, we just had one of my favorite authors and a guy running $100 million

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venture fund. New York Times bestselling author and a dude running a $100 million venture fund

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in one of our communities for two days. And when he's here, we do a pitch day on the first night

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when these guys are here. But the pitch day isn't a standard pitch day. It's called show and tell.

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And show and tell is just that. It's people showing off projects they've been working on

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that they love. And it's songs, it's hardware, it's software. It's people showing prototypes.

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It's people talking about a book they're writing. And so these VCs in the room, like he knows me,

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and he's like, this is different. And yet he's finding deals he wants to do. And he's intrigued,

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but also getting to see if someone's film that they're working on. Then the next day,

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they do storytelling around two lessons in life and two lessons in business each,

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an interactive forum. And so these individuals share their story and then a story about life

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that taught them a deep and meaningful lesson in life. They're transferring principles.

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And these are legends. These aren't nobodies. I mean, these are legit. Seth Godin thinks one

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of these guys hung the moon. The other guy, Paul Allen tapped him to run and design the whole

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innovation systems for the Seattle area. This is Paul Allen of Microsoft. Yeah. Yeah. These two

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come in and they deliver these stories and lessons. After they've done that, we then gather and we

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have a feast. And around this feast, everyone stands up and declares what they're inspired by,

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what they want to create over the next three months, what they want the community to hold

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them accountable to, and which pathway they choose. They choose one of the four different

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leadership pathways. And there's a book club with a curriculum we've designed, a personal growth

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group with a curriculum we've designed, a skills sprint where you learn new skills in support of

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a community that's just designed to keep you accountable with a curriculum we've designed.

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Then there's also a venture studio where you work on your idea to prepare it for the next show and

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tells, and you get your idea and you go through the lean business model canvas with a curriculum

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we've designed. We provide over 100 events per year for the communities, and we don't expect you

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to go to all of them. We do hold you accountable to being on this pathway towards what you want to

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become. So that's a key differentiator of that structure. The second is we don't get high price

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leases and try and sub out that to the community so that you feel cool. We're okay taking a complete

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thumb of a building, like the worst of the worst buildings, because it's the community and the

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structure and the path to the future that you're looking for that actually makes it sticky.

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Coming back to, I use that analogy of a fort early on. When I was a kid, I don't know if you

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ever built a fort, like you thought forts were the coolest, and they were actually kind of like

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wobbly, but when you got done with it, you're like, we did this. That's what we're building

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and creating with people is we're building something together. It's a mission. So that's

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our big differentiator from like a WeWork. And employers can bring us in to design the same

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culture for their employees and their contractors, the friends and family of the employees as well.

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And that's been a really successful model for retention and activation of their employees.

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Nick, let me ask you a question because you may be, we were talking to Lori last week on our podcast

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about this, and I want to bring it up with you because I think you live at the intersection of

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this question. Communities, when they gather together in this idea of creating an idea that

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everybody can buy into. And how is that different? Because most corporations that are operating have

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what's called shareholder value. They want to increase shareholder value. Ultimately, the

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expense of employees and people participating, your mode is very different. And how do you respond to

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people who think, but at the end of the day, it's just about shareholder value. And that's all that

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we really want to do. That creates this incredible imbalance of the community. How would you respond

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to all that? No, it's an incredible question. And I've seen a lot of companies go astray with

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stakeholder versus shareholder, and they need to drive profit and fiduciary responsibility.

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So we have a process that we call the realignment theory. And the realignment theory

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kind of comes down to this belief that people are really happy when they can set goals that

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they believe in. Hey, I want to go work on this thing with agency. It's going to add beauty and

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value to the world. Then they have a system where they can learn skills in service of those goals

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and teach skills to others in service of their goals as a part of a larger community that enables

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that and inspiration and education experiences. So you now have this, those are the three things,

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like goals, growth and gatherings. That's kind of like our like the three. Cool. But most people

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are kind of garbage at setting goals. Let's be frank. They don't know what they really want to

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go and do. That's why the number one aspiration of Gen Z 12 to 27 year olds is to be an influencer.

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And we want to like, we want to dunk on that gen. But let's be frank, the generation before it was

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to be a musician and a hip hop star. The generation before that, it was I want to be a professional

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athlete. That's what I wanted to be. Right. And then I realized when I was like a junior,

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my business is not going to work out. And so as much as we dunk on those gens, it's just we

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expose people to bad things. So they have bad dreams. So we need to help people dream dreams

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that are aligned with this shareholder. Now, it can feel super manipulative. If you're like,

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hey, guys, dream about how to make us make more profit. Okay, that's weird. But a company has like

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a North Star, right? They have like an industry, they have a roadmap of innovation, and they have

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kind of an area that they're going to move in. And that maps to specific needs they have to get

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themselves there. Right. So it might be, well, we need more people who are learning these skills

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that can help us build this part of our company. Okay, so I could go to those people like learn

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this skill. They'd be like, screw you. Like what? Just so they can make more money. Right. Or you

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could look at why they need this skill and what are they trying to get people to work on? That's

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interesting. How does that then map to macroeconomic trends, like global trends of innovation and

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industry that are exponential technology markets? Because I bring up that third bucket, the macroeconomic

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trends to the corporate innovation roadmap, and the things that people are good at, right? That

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they are the goals, growth and gatherings. So if you can take the superpower of those people,

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like common trends and threads that they all share, the corporate vision of where they need to move,

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and the global trends where there's trillions of dollars to be made, and you can come up with a

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woven vision that says, all right, guys, here's that little positive core we can all focus on.

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And in this, there's a way to phrase this vertical or a focal point that the employer or the large

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company goes, oh, that scratches my itch. And that the macroeconomic trend goes, wait a second,

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this little community in this region is going to focus on that thing. That scratches our itch.

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We're interested to learn more. You're going to create a bunch of IP. And then you also then go

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to the community and say, hey guys, there's a global explosion happening here with trillions

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of dollars waiting for you. And these large employers who want to work with you. Now all of

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a sudden these people go, well, tell me more. And this is what it focuses on. And these are the areas.

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Do you guys want to chase this together and see if we can go shoot the moon? What you've effectively

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done is you've given people who really people don't care what they're working on. Most people

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don't. What people actually care about is can they work on something that they believe adds real value

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to the world? Do they get to work with people they like and trust? Do they give you skills that they

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believe are authentic to them? And do they get valued for their contribution? Hard stop. That's

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what people care about. They have those things. Then they're like, life is great. I didn't say

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what it is that they're working on, did I? So if they're working on something that's hard and

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challenging, they're going to be learning new skills. So it's more about how do you align

380
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:54,720
goals, growth and gathering and those things that people get the agency with the corporate

381
00:39:54,720 --> 00:40:00,960
interest and the macroeconomic trend. Because you can find a way to language it that inspires

382
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:07,040
people to show up. And guess what? All right. When people show up and you give them structure

383
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,760
of these events and systems and ways for them to do the goals, the growth and the gathering

384
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:17,040
and experience the true growth and pitch days and experiences, they work with the colleges,

385
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,000
you can bring in the SBA, you can bring in the venture investors, you can bring in the

386
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:25,760
corporations to hire. And you have this flywheel of 100 events per year that the company thinks

387
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:32,320
is in service of them. The people thinks it's in service of them. The industry thinks it's in

388
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:38,800
service of them. So who's it in service of? I don't know. It's just doing, it's realigning

389
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,080
all of our interests to be this one movement of we're all going to create more beauty and value

390
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:50,000
in the world. And when we do that, here's the most magical thing. When you do it right and make it

391
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:57,200
around a merit-based, easy onboarding roadmap, which is what we've done, we do 36 free events

392
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,680
per year in each of our communities, 36 free. I'm never going to charge anybody anything for

393
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,200
these things. And we've seen companies starting these things have gone from an idea to worth over

394
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:10,720
$100 million. These platforms that are free allow anybody to show up and we're like, look,

395
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:14,720
bring your ideas. Cause there's a culture of co-creation, but we do them around verticals.

396
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:22,720
And magically the output of these inputs with this kind of Venn diagram in the middle

397
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:29,840
is that it starts to heal mental health because people now have community and structure and some

398
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:35,200
like rigor, physical health. Cause now people have purpose and like why to show up and passion,

399
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,960
something to believe in. So like get out of your sweatpants, don't stay up as late, don't drink so

400
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:45,200
much. Economic health, cause they're learning new skills. They're actually like interested in what

401
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:50,000
trends are happening and civic health, because they're a part of a community that gathers

402
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,480
physically to where like that dude who sleeps with other guys, they don't care about anymore.

403
00:41:54,480 --> 00:42:01,600
Cause he's got a cool idea or that woman who is a far left woke liberal or that old woman that's a

404
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:06,480
far right Republican, MAGA. All of a sudden you just don't care about those things. Cause like

405
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,360
when people talk about what they love and what they want to chase and what they're going to do

406
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:14,640
to add beauty and value to the world, it transcends something that you want to help them because

407
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:20,000
you're in the sacred loop of exchanging value for value with each other around. We co-create a more

408
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:26,000
beautiful tomorrow. So there is this intersection that is really rich in this matrix that starts to

409
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:33,120
realign the man and the human so that we're using our time and energy to add beauty and value to the

410
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:39,040
world. But it still fits within capitalism and things that smell familiar to us because we do

411
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,760
have a framework that we've designed that we call reality. And for people who want to like unplug

412
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:50,960
from the machine completely, it's like get a life that won't work. Yeah. I love you actually

413
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:57,280
answered my question for me, which was going to be, how do you address the biggest concerns that

414
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:02,800
you start off in the beginning of your book, which is 77% of these kids that are going to the

415
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:08,480
military can't make it because of obesity or drug use and 58% loneliness, et cetera. One of the things

416
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:13,760
I was thinking about, and then you mentioned a book last year called Bowling Alone. And one of the

417
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,800
scariest quotes out of this book was studies of political psychology over the last 40 years have

418
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:24,080
suggested that quote, people divorced from community, occupation and association are first and

419
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,880
foremost amongst the supporters of extremism. Right? So I'm thinking, okay, here's all these

420
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:33,520
negatives. This is really scary. But then I'm thinking even in the middle of us, we have ASU,

421
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:38,400
which is now considered one of the most innovative universities in the country outpacing both MIT and

422
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:44,240
Stanford. And what do they do over five, 10 years ago? They said, they said, Hey, if you work for

423
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:49,520
Starbucks, you can get your online degree with us for free. Just be a full-time employed Starbucks.

424
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:55,600
They democratized education. Uber driver, you're slinging drivers out there. You're having a rough

425
00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:00,240
time. How about we give you an education? These are the kinds of things going on. So what you've

426
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:04,560
actually done is you haven't started with the pain and brokenness. You've started with the idea and

427
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:10,560
the community, and you're actually wagging the tail of the dog by doing that. Because the thing I was

428
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,320
concerned with, because you're going to be missing a big wide net of all this innovation with all

429
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,320
these people that are underrepresented, that are marginalized right now, that are hurting.

430
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:24,560
How do we bring them in? Because, yeah, this is, I would just love for you to help me process that,

431
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:30,560
because I like where you're going, because it seems so, it's not utopian, but it's a beautiful

432
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,440
vision of what that flywheel can look like. But I'm always trying to figure out how do you,

433
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:42,080
where does the egg and the chicken start and begin, right? 100%. 100%. Well, what it is,

434
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,080
the beauty is we don't have to worry about the chicken or the egg, because we already have a

435
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:54,400
farm. Yeah. And when you look at the history of what we've made as a nation, we've got a legacy

436
00:44:54,400 --> 00:45:03,520
of greatness, of doing hard things, of struggle, of building. We chased, the American dream is a

437
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:11,200
shared global experiment. It is not a national identity. And that's a really important thing to

438
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:17,840
hold on to. The American dream is a shared global experiment of people locking arms saying, come

439
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:23,280
hell or high water, let's go do something cooler and better together. Well, it's self-actualization.

440
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:30,720
It's this idea that I can contribute to society and reap a benefit that allows me to continue

441
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:38,080
doing that. 100%. 100%. And when we had systems that oppressed us or that got off the rails,

442
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:43,600
we then took a deep breath and went, let's rethink this thing. And so we're kind of at another

443
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:48,080
moment where, coming back to your question, Rich, we have a lot of people who feel left out,

444
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,240
black and brown community being one. Look, there's super unjust things that have happened

445
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:58,000
throughout history and society. The gay community being another. Super unjust, awkwardness.

446
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:04,000
You can continue down the list of different marginalized people groups who've often felt

447
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,080
like they've been overlooked. And so we can look at the past and ask the question, well,

448
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:14,480
how do we right these wrongs? How do we shine a brighter light on these people? Or a cooler

449
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:21,520
idea would be, how do we just set a bigger table that is super wicked inspiring and that tells the

450
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:27,360
stories of struggle and success and failure that creates this loop of trust and discovery

451
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:32,400
as the first principle and create a social infrastructure and an economic infrastructure

452
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:38,240
harmonized around this. So first step is help people discover who else has done this that looks

453
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:42,880
like me, that I want to hear their story that's local in my own town. And you don't make it about

454
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:48,800
them as an identity and a gender. Instead, you make it about the story of someone who struggled.

455
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:54,080
And you invite everybody. You get houses of worship, you get the United Way, you get the

456
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:59,120
battered women's shelter, you get the K-12 high schools, you get the chamber, you get the Elks

457
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,520
Club, you invite the Dems, you invite the Republicans, bring them all, come one, come all,

458
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:08,160
the rich, the poor, the country club, you know, bring them all to the table. Why? Because you're

459
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,920
telling an inspiring story about someone in their own town. Guess what? People like that. That's why

460
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:18,080
we watch TV. And so you create this night once a month where it's storytelling around the local

461
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,680
person, you have free wine and beer, you get someone to sponsor it. That's why people like to

462
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:27,600
have a beer. They like to have a glass of wine. It's a better date night. That then starts to then

463
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:33,360
awaken people to go, I belong here. I have dreams too. And you start to help people dreaming in the

464
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:38,000
poor, the rich, the brown, the black, the white, the yellow, the red, everybody under the sun.

465
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:45,680
Cool. Next phase is then give them a forum where they can go from discover to dream. And dream is

466
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:51,840
where you start to like marinate a bit after you've discovered and you start to like spark the ideas

467
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:58,640
with each other. And the dream state leads into then the design state. And so we have multiple

468
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:04,560
experiences that fall into the dream and design category. The coffee and concepts is a fun one

469
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:09,280
where it's a multiple times a month where people gather just to talk about innovation breakthroughs

470
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:14,240
and news around the vertical, but then they also share their ideas back and forth of what are you

471
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:18,640
working on? Does anybody have a concept that they need feedback on? You see hands go up around the

472
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:23,200
room. And in the real time in the room, you work on people's companies together. And so you start

473
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:30,400
to design a plan, a path to get them there. And then we have high fidelity programs that get a

474
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,480
little bit deeper into, you want to design the real steps. Cool. Go through the skills

475
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:39,120
spring. Go through the lean business model canvas. Go through the personal growth curriculum because

476
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:45,200
you need to work on those things. So it's discover, dream, design, deliver. This is a tried and true

477
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:51,360
process called appreciative inquiry. It is about industrial organizational change, individual change,

478
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:58,720
but applying it to society's deepest, darkest, scariest problems. Look, we could talk about

479
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:03,600
solving for obesity and suicide by telling people to stop eating things and to go make friends.

480
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:08,160
But if you don't have purpose and if you don't have passion, you don't have pride, guess what?

481
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,960
You're still going to eat same nasty shit. And if you don't have, well, you're going to go make

482
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,880
friends because like I'm a loser. I don't have friends. That's how people feel. So instead we

483
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:22,320
need to create social infrastructure that allows people to then stumble into discovery that gives

484
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,560
them a little bit of passion. So it's, it's, it's almost manipulation by using the human condition

485
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:32,640
to say, this is what we were made for. We're made to dream. We're made to do hard things.

486
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,480
And so the chicken egg component, what's interesting is it's just about saying,

487
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,240
this is our birthright. This is our history. This is our legacy. Let's do it again.

488
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:44,240
And so I don't know what comes first. Is it like the person that makes the company

489
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:48,880
or is the person that dreams of the future? But you just start with everyone's got dreams, right?

490
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:53,680
You sit around and solve all the problems in the universe. So this really comes down to,

491
00:49:55,040 --> 00:50:00,560
I believe when people have a dream that they've shared with other people, that gives them a sense

492
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:06,960
of purpose and passion and pride, they choose to eat better. They choose to be lifelong learners.

493
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,480
They choose to go to bed earlier. They choose better friends. They choose structure and rhythm

494
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:16,800
that helps them climb towards their purpose and their dream, their goal. If they don't have those

495
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:21,520
things, it is a fool's errand to try and have interventions around those other pieces. Cause

496
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,800
it doesn't matter. Like we could change the lunches at schools. We're still going to have obese kids.

497
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:31,280
Cause guess why? If they don't have a bigger dream and that someone's mentoring them, holding

498
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:35,680
accountable to in a community that inspires them to rise up, you know, we got nothing.

499
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,800
Yeah, Jonathan, I have noticed that even the algorithm that you get on Instagram,

500
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:48,160
if you surround yourself with great content, with uplifting high vibrational stuff, it's going to

501
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:53,040
get refed and repurposed and you're going to end up being that same thing. So the same thing applies.

502
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:57,840
You surprise with a community that maybe they're not all obese, but guess what? They're all

503
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:03,520
recognizing everybody's differences, strengths and weaknesses and what actual success looks like.

504
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:08,480
Everybody's been broken. Everybody's had shitty freaking days, shitty weeks, shitty lives,

505
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,200
gone through ups and downs, divorce, what have you, financial ruin. And yet they can come and

506
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,360
they can talk about what better looks like, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, Jonathan, go ahead.

507
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,360
And it's garbage in, garbage out. Like to that point of just, you know,

508
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,600
like to that point of just, just really quick is like, that's just the principle of society.

509
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:30,800
And so if all we're doing is sucking up more YouTube, more Instagram, more Netflix, more

510
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:37,040
Facebook, more Snapchat or Tik Tok or whatever, what is that doing for us? When we look at the

511
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:43,280
data on society that just is screaming for us to rip out of this quote unquote matrix, coming back

512
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:51,840
to like the theme of this podcast, it's so simple. If 50 plus percent of us are lonely, guess what?

513
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,600
One out of every two of your neighbors falls in that category. Go knock on the door and be like,

514
00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:00,720
anybody want to be my friend? But we need a better why behind the what. And that's where it's like,

515
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:05,760
it becomes around innovation and creativity and economics that you can design a rich,

516
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:12,080
meatier community that comes together with us of all types, body sizes, races, genders,

517
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:17,520
socioeconomic status, religious creeds, because we can all rally around what do you want to create

518
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:22,160
that adds the most beauty and value to the world? That's the sacred act that transcends who you sleep with.

519
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:32,800
Nick, you seem fairly tied into capital. How hard is it to convince capital to think

520
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:41,440
outwardly first rather than the return? Are there really capital, people who will invest capital

521
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:49,840
that see the bigger picture? Yes, often it's more philanthropic. Meaning it's gone through,

522
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:58,080
we've gone through this cycle where occupied movement hit. And all of a sudden, everyone came

523
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:05,040
up for air and started asking the question of what's off and legitimate is led by, you know,

524
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:11,600
Gates and, you know, Tony Blair, Carlos Slim, Michael Milken, Eric Schmidt, Zuckerberg, everyone's

525
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:18,160
like, Whoa, you guys are all mad at us. And philanthropy, there's a really great book,

526
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:22,240
it's called the revolt of the elites. If anybody ever wants to snag that one. It's one of my

527
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:26,560
favorites. It was Steve Bannon's Bible for architecting the playbook of Donald Trump for

528
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:32,400
how he won the election. And he didn't write it. But it was a manifesto that helped everyone

529
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:38,000
understand some key pieces. And so I believe occupy is basically based on revolt of the elite.

530
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:42,400
And it's this theory that a lot of the capital and individuals started caring about

531
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,720
philanthropic trends, not their own communities. So I can give all the money to malaria.

532
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:54,400
But people felt stuck and left behind. And so when you talk about is there really capital out

533
00:53:54,400 --> 00:54:03,520
there that actually cares about community first? If it is it's blood money, or it's, it's second,

534
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:08,480
third generation wealth, that has decided they don't want to be like dad or mom, and they're

535
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:13,360
going to go save the world, because they don't have a job that they believe has them saving the

536
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:19,120
world. I'm being very blunt right now. A lot of money, it's kind of an interesting endeavor to

537
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:25,360
try and save the world. You know, totally, totally, totally. So you have, and I think it comes from a

538
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:31,680
deep, meaningful, strong place in these people, but you end up with philanthropic legacy wealth

539
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:36,720
capital that that's willing to like lose or take a risk or like be managed well with limited returns

540
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:40,880
or capture turns. And then you have others who've made so much money, they're like, well, maybe

541
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:51,840
capture turns are okay. And the one thing I can come back to is this is what I believe.

542
00:54:51,840 --> 00:55:00,640
I believe that if you design capitalism to embrace solving some of these social

543
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:06,560
issues in society where it's not theater, it's just when we gather to set goals and learn skills

544
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:12,000
together in a constant consistent routine rhythm with our neighbors, things are better for humans,

545
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:17,680
but we also make better companies. If we can re-architect capitalism to prove this consistently

546
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:22,000
to the power players, I don't give two shits. You don't even have to care anymore.

547
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:28,960
Like, let's just let the market fund the right damn thing. And I've seen it with my eyes. Like,

548
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:33,600
we don't need theater. I don't need you to clean up the spill on aisle three. I just need you to

549
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:39,840
wake the fuck up that knocking over the bottle in aisle three and playing some myopic short-term

550
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:44,080
capitalism games where you fire everybody from Johnson and Johnson and then rehire him as

551
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:49,120
contractors so that the price looks great because you got rid of your employees. And so look,

552
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:53,840
our future earnings look great. Our stock will jump. Everyone gets their bonuses at the end of

553
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:59,280
the year. And then we hire you back as contractors. That game is theater. And so we've played it for

554
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:06,400
so long, we think that's the only way to win. The truth is, the greatest things of our times,

555
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:12,400
the most valuable companies have come from this weird alchemy that happens in garages with friends.

556
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:20,400
So wake the fuck up, make more garages, like fund more alchemy like that. And we think it can be

557
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:27,280
some form of sheet music. It's not sheet music. It's jazz. And so the idea that we can sheet music

558
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:33,040
the hell out of some form of economic output without acknowledging the fact that there is a

559
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:38,720
human condition, let some jazz happen on the front end and be the underwriter of that with a portion

560
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:45,680
of that capital as a way to, sure, add some harmony to capitalism and then be ready to scale the stuff

561
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:51,280
that's on its way up. I think venture capital is changing drastically. I think welfare will...

562
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:52,560
Oh, absolutely.

563
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:57,200
So I'm curious, because I live in the middle of Silicon Valley with Sand Hill. I've been to Sand

564
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:02,880
Hill hundreds of times. How is it changing? That's an intriguing statement.

565
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:12,800
So quite a few things. So I believe venture capital is fundamentally on a shift where we have

566
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:17,680
seen for like a 20 year period, you pump a company full of capital, you run it up,

567
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:22,720
you take all the value out in the A, B, and C rounds, you do a DEF, screw these people over,

568
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:28,880
pride and ego. And then you take it public. It has a short term spike and then it crashes.

569
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,720
And then some big firm buys it out again once it hit the skids and they bring it in house.

570
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,600
Then they maybe spend it out again later. Yeah. That's been the cycle of innovation. It's silly,

571
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:44,080
silly, silly. I think in this modern era, the loop is going to get tighter to where we're going to

572
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:50,080
see more venture studios in early, early stage, less capital invested, get something to a

573
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:55,520
technology's readiness level, like one or two, and then it gets acquired. Similar to what an

574
00:57:55,520 --> 00:58:00,400
aqua hire used to be, but instead of an aqua hire, it's buying a product that is like to a point

575
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,240
where it's like, we think we could scale this thing internally. And so it's acquisitions at a

576
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:09,280
much earlier state versus buying something with a baked, like full revenue engine that you're like,

577
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:14,960
we're going to buy this thing and take it to a thousand. More experimentation there because

578
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:24,560
here's the truth. Companies are laying off people in droves. It's happening all around us. And it's

579
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:32,160
not because, it's because of efficiencies. And like we're now in a world where we don't need

580
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:37,520
as many people to do all the data intensive things that we used to. And so as we watch that,

581
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:43,760
these companies will be able to have so much money that they become the ultimate VCs. The question

582
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:48,960
is, do we tax them and get a universal basic income and everyone gets free money to stay at home?

583
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,840
Or do we not do that? And when they get taxed to pay more welfare, because a bunch of people

584
00:58:53,840 --> 00:59:00,880
aren't working, pretty much the same thing. Or do we re-architect society to have those who aren't

585
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:05,600
employed inside of these high scaling, high growth utilities, which are what a lot of these

586
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:12,720
companies are becoming. And do they then architect a shift in education, welfare, social security,

587
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:19,200
earlier life things that we are doing project based incentives to work on IP that these people

588
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:23,680
are chasing. And so there's a re-architecture. I think it goes way beyond just venture capital,

589
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:28,320
but into fundamental capitalism. That there's a way to re-architect capitalism and education

590
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:35,200
and social security and welfare to break the mold of which we're stuck in. But DC is going to hard

591
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:42,880
stop be a, I think it is a risk in the middle of this game that it disappears from how we've known

592
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:53,280
it. And we'll end up having these community rounds of local communities that support early stage IP

593
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:58,800
with forms of grants and offsets. And you'll get things percolated to a certain level. And then

594
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,960
these whales will have some form of a relationship in market that just goes,

595
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:08,000
calm, calm, calm, calm. And this gap here where we used to then scale things up,

596
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:15,840
people played that game over the last decade for sure, last 20 years a bit. And now it kind of got

597
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:20,640
burnt. Let's be honest, man. No one wants to invest in venture right now. I know two funds

598
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:27,200
who are out raising that just stopped. I've seen that trends too Jonathan. Yeah. Have you really?

599
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:33,680
Yeah. And the other thing that kind of goes back to is going back to the root of building community

600
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:40,400
and building these kinds of this flywheel, it goes against the force DEI and ESG things that have

601
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:44,640
been forced on people. Ray Fink says, well, sometimes we just got to force some people.

602
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:48,800
Well, guess what just happened last year, buddy. You just lost 3 trillion in assets in the ESG.

603
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:54,720
That's because you're trying to force this on people instead of grassroots, creative,

604
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:59,920
co-creative inspiration owned by communities. And you're having now, I see what you're saying.

605
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:05,040
You're seeing all these mini things kind of grow and get their funding as opposed to these one

606
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:11,120
or two big massive unicorns. And you're going to see a lot more repetition and a lot more scale

607
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:15,840
and a lot more replication and a lot more innovation. It's almost like how AI has

608
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,280
progressively gotten better and better. That is something you're onto.

609
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:28,080
And on the ends of the whole DEI, ESG movement, I am much more interested in the idea of large

610
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:33,600
corporations and the federal government and any of these key stakeholders saying, here's our big

611
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:39,040
problems, like our very real ones. These are the big innovations we need done, stall for these.

612
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:44,640
And then this community being able to have clarity and optics into these projects and saying,

613
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:50,640
I like that problem. I'm going to try and solve it by approaching it this way to ensure that I

614
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:55,280
think it's going to add the most beauty and value to the world. And if this is a truly merit-based

615
01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:01,520
system where everyone is engaging with this database freely, now all of a sudden you have

616
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:08,880
people engaging with learning skills that matter for the future roadmap, developing products that

617
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:13,280
these groups can potentially commercialize and change the world with at high-scale volume

618
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,640
manufacturing, supply chain, logistics, brand, all the things they already do.

619
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:23,120
And we start to have this better relationship between the masses of plus theater. I mean,

620
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:28,560
let's think about high schoolers. Why can't high schoolers build and ship cool products

621
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:32,960
and work on these things today? Because high schoolers are wicked smart, but instead we have

622
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:38,720
them doing theater. They're doing theater work. I want my kids working on the roadmaps

623
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:43,840
for the largest companies in the world, learning skills that actually make them applicable.

624
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:49,440
So there's a whole push in my opinion that if we can rethink some of the philanthropy

625
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,640
and the corporate development approaches, the CSR, corporate social responsibility,

626
01:02:54,640 --> 01:03:01,280
and the corp dev to become one stack, we now have a really compelling merit-based

627
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:09,200
X-Prize for everybody to play that I've done some basic math on a few fundamentals. I found a way

628
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:16,720
to get $19,647 per person per year over the age of 15 in the pocket of every American until death,

629
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:23,600
just based on some slight adjustments around R&D and philanthropy. And if we could get the masses

630
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:29,200
to gather a society to work on the innovation roadmap that all the key stakeholders need and

631
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,480
want, and they own the IP as the masses and it has to be licensed or acquired,

632
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:41,120
that's a fun rethink of the matrix. Amen. It is. 315, do you have to get your son?

633
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:47,920
Yeah, yeah. I need to jump too. So let me close it out real quick. So Nick, this has been an

634
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:52,560
absolutely amazing conversation. You're touching my heart and it really, and I think a lot of our

635
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,560
listeners will probably resonate with a lot of what you say, because at the end of the day,

636
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:00,560
we want our communities to thrive. So I appreciate your message. So thank you.

637
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,680
You're welcome. Thank you. Yeah.

638
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:08,720
Only one question. We've done this for a long time. We used to ask each one of our

639
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:14,320
podcast guests who their character in the matrix would be, Nick. So I'm going to ask you. I've

640
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:18,960
already got somebody in mind. If you've got a quick moment, who would you be if you were in the matrix?

641
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:30,560
Man. Isn't there a rabbit in there? There is a white rabbit.

642
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,960
I'd be the white rabbit. That's a good one. I haven't heard that one yet.

643
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:36,880
That's right. Yeah. I'd be the white rabbit.

644
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:41,920
It's a character on the shoulder, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. I love it. Follow the

645
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:46,800
white rabbit, baby. All right. Thank you, Nick. It's been an absolute pleasure having you and

646
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:52,160
to our listeners. Please comment. Let us know what you're thinking about these episodes.

647
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:57,840
If you have someone to recommend, please do. This has been an absolutely wonderful episode.

648
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:17,280
We will. This has been Living in the Matrix and we will see you next week. Much love, everybody.