1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,520 Welcome to Living in the Matrix. I'm Jonathan and I'm left of center. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,720 And I'm Rich and I tend to lean a little bit more to the right. But the bottom line is, 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,560 is together we try to look for the balance of what it means to be human in today's world. 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,840 All right. Let's get started everyone. This is John. This is Living in the Matrix. I'm 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,560 Jonathan and my co-host Rich. Say hello, Rich. Hey everybody. Great to be back. Happy Friday. 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:32,400 We have an absolute fabulous guest today. We've got Lori Wallace and Lori is the founder and 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:40,240 CEO of Career Ecology. And both Rich and I have a long history with recruiters and career life and 8 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:48,480 coaching. And she has a HubSpot called Work-Life Empowerment. She mentors job seekers, but she has 9 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:56,080 this really interesting approach because she brings more than meets the eye. She calls herself a 10 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:05,360 work-life doula, which I absolutely love. And she talks about the heroes, the career hero's journey. 11 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,960 Lori, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but welcome. It's a pleasure to have you. 12 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:15,200 Thank you. I am so excited to be here with you both too, because we all are in this space. 13 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:21,040 And listening to your prior shows, I know that you're always getting to the center of things, 14 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:28,320 into the heart aspect, the working soul. I mean, we're going deep and that's where I exist as well. 15 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:31,360 So, so excited to be here with you. Thank you for the invitation. 16 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:39,520 So give our listeners sort of an understanding of your background so they know the professionalism 17 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:46,000 and history, because you bring a ton of history to this conversation. Yes. Thank you. You know, 18 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,800 interestingly, I have one foot. It is firmly planted in the past in the corporate world. 19 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:56,560 I was an executive in banking and I was responsible for selling home equity line credits across the 20 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:01,520 United States through telemarketing. Do you remember getting those calls? Oh, we don't quite the same 21 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,800 way anymore. This is all pre-cell phone, you know, all of that. But I learned at that time, 22 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:13,440 what was involved with bringing trust or trying to cultivate trust between strangers. 23 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,760 I was developing these scripts and I was interrupting people's dinners. So kind of 24 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,880 started there. And then here's what happened. You know how in life you have a big crisis and it sets 25 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:29,040 you on the path. It kind of moves you over. With the Twin Towers on that September 11th, 26 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:34,880 I was eight months pregnant and was really went into my animal state and practically birthed my 27 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:40,160 child in the spot. In fact, there were a ton of women who ended up in the ER that day. It was 28 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:45,920 really overwhelming, you know, to that deep body and that horror of the whole thing. And what ended 29 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:51,920 up happening to me is I was laid off once I had my child, because we went through an economic, 30 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:57,920 as you call it, like a downturn. So I was laid off in my role, you know, experiencing that with a new 31 00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:04,320 baby. And my health kind of went crazy with some autoimmune. And end of the day, I looked at my 32 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:10,160 husband and I said, I'm switching careers. I'm getting out of this corporate thing and I want 33 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:17,040 to practice radical kindness. And my husband said, interesting, you know, what career path or track 34 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:23,200 might that be? And as luck would have it, my recruiter had called me for another financial 35 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:28,320 services role. I told him I was shifting. He ended up recruiting me to be a recruiter. 36 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:35,520 Now, here's the deal. Most recruiters out there are salespeople. But there are some of us that do it 37 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:41,760 because we know that work, health and love are the three parts of that stool that each needs to be 38 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:47,680 really strong. And I knew when he talked to me about recruiting, that I could be that one that 39 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:54,400 listened, that created neutral space for dreaming, that people could cry to, vent to. And so I moved 40 00:03:54,400 --> 00:04:00,240 my family to Oregon and I said, I'm here, let's do this. And I start working for this organization, 41 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:08,160 quickly found out that it was all about the bottom line and sales. I was clocked to keep my phone 42 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:15,840 calls to six minutes, you know, yada yada. So I quit and I started my own agency in 2005 to 43 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:23,120 transform head hunting into human connection. And I flooded it with feminine values that aren't 44 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:28,800 always welcome in business, like patience, empathy. In fact, I almost didn't even get that first job 45 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:34,480 because I scored too high in empathy, apparently. But it's really, really worked for me as a health 46 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:40,880 care recruiter. Now speed that forward to 2016. I'm doing my recruitment. I'm learning about humans. 47 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:47,680 I'm experiencing their trauma, their joys, their triumphs, everything in between. And then 2016, 48 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:56,080 the election and everything that occurred with culture shift, climate and COVID. And I saw people 49 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:02,720 break down and I just saw their overwhelm and their sense of lack of power in their life. 50 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:08,560 And that's when Career Ecology was born. And it is a hundred percent about empowering individuals 51 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:14,960 through authentic relating and reminding people and showing them that you're much more resilient 52 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:21,920 than you realize, that it really is about awakening heart mindfulness and not leading from an ego 53 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,920 that thinks it's all about performance and competition. And every moment you think you're 54 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:33,120 not good enough. The heart really is truly sovereign and it intuits and it knows and it 55 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:38,240 connects with the net of attraction. And that's what I'm doing here quite specifically for job 56 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:43,520 seekers. So that's the arc right there. Laurie, I'm gonna, so sorry, Rich, I'm gonna dive in here 57 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:49,680 with the first question because you absolutely captivated me with that idea. I have been recently, 58 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:57,600 I talked to Rich about capitalism all the time and growing up, there was a moment of greed is good 59 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:02,400 and the shareholder capitalism came into play where everything is about shareholder value. 60 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:09,200 And we living the journey of 40 years of that shareholder value. And I think that era is ending. 61 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:16,400 The greed is good, capitalism is ending. And that is what shareholder capitalism will not allow for 62 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:21,120 love to enter the conversation. They will not play in the soft skills because everything has to be 63 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:27,360 hard. And I love what you're doing because I think it's coming on at exactly the right time is the 64 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:34,320 era shifts. People are now waking up and COVID completely obliterated the old idea. It gave 65 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:42,960 people a year to absolutely pause neurologically and you showed up. What do you think about that 66 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,120 shareholder capitalism to something different idea? 67 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:53,600 Love that you brought that. Yes. Okay. So are you guys both familiar with benefit corporations, 68 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:54,960 B-Corps? Yes. 69 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:55,520 No. 70 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:56,560 I am. 71 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:05,360 Yes. So this is a movement that is much bigger in Europe and it should be bigger here, but I think 72 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:11,040 the time is now and I'm actually part of the local. And what it is in California, there actually is a 73 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:18,480 designation of benefit corporation and you file as if you're an S-Corp, all of that's the same, 74 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:26,080 but you actually set yourself up with the state and say, our obligations are to our stakeholders, 75 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,480 for sure our shareholders, but also to our employees, to our community and to our 76 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:37,600 environment. Now you cannot be sued by your shareholder if you made a decision that was 77 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,760 good for your employees and slowed down revenue a little bit because you can define it. 78 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:42,800 Consolation. 79 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:43,600 Yeah. 80 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:50,560 Right. And so it's really freeing for CEOs because how many times have we seen CEOs try to make the 81 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:58,400 right choices and get booted? Even the whole thing that was going on with chat GPT, somewhat was even 82 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:04,560 involved with doing the right thing with AI coming forward and wondering how can we responsibly 83 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,960 bring this to the world because it could change everything within a year and we don't know what 84 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:13,600 is capable of. And here was a board trying to do the right thing and all this got kind of confused. 85 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:19,840 So it really helps when there's a designation, a legal designation that allows you to operate 86 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:25,840 in the way that you just described there, Jonathan. So yeah, I'm all for it. And as I grow, 87 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,560 hopefully as a company, I will be establishing myself as a B Corp for sure. 88 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,360 Awesome. Well, I tend to be the more of the polemicist in the room, 89 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:39,920 Laurie, and I lean a little bit more to the right and Jonathan leans a little bit more to the left. 90 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:40,240 Yes. 91 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,400 And he's done such a great job in his whole life of leading with his heart and I've led with my 92 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:49,280 head and I'm trying to bring the heart more into the equation. But one of the things that I noticed 93 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,840 that came up and maybe this is not a perfect example of a B Corp, but one of the things that 94 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:59,280 everybody in this room probably recognizes is there were these videos of people that would go 95 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:05,760 to work every day, let's say at Twitter and you've got a person, they wake up at nine o'clock in the 96 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,160 morning, they go to the gym, they go into the office, they see their friends, they get their 97 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:15,360 latte, they take a meditation break, they do a little bit of work, 30, 40 minutes, then they go 98 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,520 grab some lunch, then they meet up with their buddies, then they have a little bit of a 99 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,760 meditation or whatever, a little bit of snooze, then it's four o'clock and they go home. 100 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:31,200 And then after Elon takes over, 75% of the people are taken out and you're left with 25% and it's 101 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,760 as productive as it was prior to those people being there. Now, that's probably not a fair 102 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:43,040 comparison, but the devil's advocated me once to understand, is it actually, can you really go 103 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:47,760 fully all the way over to one side or does it still have to be some kind of balance where there's 104 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,920 still some shareholder value and at the same time, you're doing the good for the order of what you're 105 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:59,440 trying to accomplish? Absolutely. You have to have both. The balance is so critical between the head 106 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:06,080 and the heart. And I think part of what I'm hearing too, as we discussed this, is that it was swung so 107 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:15,840 far and so hard to headspace that we're trying to bring in now compassion and respect some 108 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:23,600 nurturance. And so what do we have here? We have Gen Z coming in with those types of expectations. 109 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:30,000 And it feels very overwhelming and quite abrupt to business owners. They don't know how to talk to 110 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,800 some Gen Zers. They don't know how to manage this. And when I'm coaching them, when I'm coaching the 111 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:42,800 leaders, I just say, this is all part of the whole. This is part of how even 4.5 billion years of 112 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:48,000 evolution in the natural world, this is how it works. That you can have a new dynamic and that 113 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,720 environment now has to make sense of it. And there might be a little bit of a sense too of things 114 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:57,920 being kind of overwhelming or maybe even going in a bad direction until nature comes forward and 115 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:03,840 says, oh, if you've watched the movie, The Biggest Little Farm, which is a spectacular film about 116 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:10,160 this idea of biodynamic, the idea of diversity and cooperation in the middle of the movie, 117 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:16,400 this beautiful farm, which is a reawakening ecosystem that is successful based on the 118 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:22,000 principles of nature. No monocropping here. We've got all different sorts of plants and 119 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:27,760 really, right, everything. You got to have animals and everything. At one point, the snails almost 120 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:33,360 take down all of these acres in four years of all the success that they've done. But what 121 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:40,000 happened was as that was growing, well, it was the ducks that love snails, they came in and they ate 122 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:46,480 something like a hundred thousand snails in eight days. So nature quickly adjusted itself. 123 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,720 French ducks. Escargot. 124 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:54,720 Escargot, exactly. Completely escargot. So, you know, I visited, I was saying to this you earlier 125 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:00,880 before we got on to our show here, is that I recently visited this farm and there's a lot 126 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:07,200 for us to learn from nature, really from a social context, from environmental, from sustainability, 127 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:13,840 engineering. And I did ask the farmers, John and Molly, what is the farm teaching us this year? 128 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:19,520 And they said, you know, we have learned that the lesson is stay curious and go slow. 129 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,400 That is not aligned with capitalism. 130 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:31,280 Yeah. Yeah. You need, we need predictable numbers and really that's the GE way. I think the whole 131 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:40,320 shift that was so, so far to the right was really led by GE. GE created a Six Sigma program and 132 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:47,520 figured out they could continually adjust their head count every single year as a rotation. 133 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:53,680 Intel started top bottoms with the bottom 10%, lop them off. That's just the GE way. All that 134 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:59,760 came from Jack Welch because he realized you could essentially manipulate the markets so that it just 135 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:05,840 kept going up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up at the expense of people. 136 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:12,320 That to me was why it's, and that is the thing that I think is missing here is I think employees 137 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:20,560 I think employees should be first in terms of the dynamics. You take care of your employees first 138 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:27,600 and then shareholder value will almost always show up. And that's what's gotten lost. Like, 139 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:32,320 I don't want to throw, nobody wants to throw out capitalism. We want to throw out the approach 140 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:38,960 that says the shareholder comes first because when you do, you don't have a heart connection to the 141 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:44,880 people that are creating that possibility. Well, Jonathan and Laura, you might even be familiar 142 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:50,400 with this, but do you know what Yvonne Chouinard just did with Patagonia? Oh, well, he's a B Corp. 143 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:58,640 Yeah. Okay. He's a B Corp. Yes. Please. Okay. So everybody in this audience probably knows 144 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,200 Patagonia and I live 10 minutes away from their headquarters and I've followed them and the brand 145 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:08,640 loyalty and the things that they've been doing in terms of sustainability in the Patagonia region 146 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:14,240 of Argentina and the actual mountains and all these things. Now he did one thing completely 147 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:19,600 different. He literally created its own. So it's not a nonprofit anymore, but you're saying it's 148 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:25,040 a B Corp. Can you, do you have any more details about how that's actually working in function 149 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:30,640 for our audience to understand in a real life example? Yeah. So, you know, not only Patagonia 150 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:35,840 is a good example, but Ben and Jerry's is a B Corp as well. There another one. Yes. And one of 151 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,720 the originals really within this experiment, which is going really well. And you know, what 152 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,720 Patagonia has done is, you know, they had all this, they have all this wealth. They are, you know, 153 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,600 such a significant brand is that there was a decision. The board came together and stakeholders 154 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,920 and shareholders and they all came to get, not shareholders so much because they didn't have 155 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,760 that. They were independent, private, but they came together and said, what do we do with all 156 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:00,800 this money? Do we go pro, do we go public? Is that what it's expected? Is that good for us and for 157 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:05,680 the land and for our employees? They looked at all their options and ultimately, I know I probably 158 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:12,160 won't say this exactly right, but they decided to make Earth the singular shareholder. And, 159 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,320 and said that they would create this foundation and other ways that they could go ahead and 160 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,240 support anything going on in the world and all those that are also trying to support Earth. 161 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:26,960 And that was so exciting that when he put out that letter, he was invited mostly throughout 162 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:33,840 Europe for invitations to receive an award, to give a speech that he, I heard this from a friend 163 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,240 of mine who has actually worked with him for years and is a personal friend because I asked if I could 164 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:43,840 meet him. I wanted to have so inspired. And she said, Lori, he has come home and he has gone into 165 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,480 his room and closed all of his shutters and curtains and he's napping. This was the, the 166 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:54,000 impact, like the impact that he made. And the world was so grateful to have somebody at that 167 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,880 level to make that courageous of a choice that he opened the door for others to try to do it. 168 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,840 So it really is an opening. These are the roaring twenties. We can take capitalism, 169 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,160 we get to take democracy, we get to take everything and make it better right now. 170 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:14,560 Yes, Lori, I'm in user experience. My entire job is to make products better. So I'm a product 171 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:22,320 designer. And when I started listening, because capitalism is essentially an experiment and it's 172 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:31,680 gone so far off the rails that it, I constantly ask myself, what is it going to take to sort of 173 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:37,040 right the ship? And I think there's a slow diversion happening, but I'm looking for that 174 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:42,720 black swan that'll wake people up. And I think one of those possibilities, like you talked about is 175 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:49,840 Gen Z is coming in with a very different mindset. And I have seen over and over, and it's not like 176 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:55,120 here smattering, there's mattering there. I've heard a lot of Gen Z basically saying, 177 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:02,000 I'm waiting for people just to say, let's not go to work today. Because if an entire generation 178 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:08,720 stops working the traditional way, that is going to be devastating to the economy. You know, 179 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:18,240 we think it will. So, oh my gosh, so big. Yeah, I think that's it. How do companies begin to engage 180 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:23,840 the heart without breaking the bank and pissing off their shareholders? Yeah. You know, it really, 181 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:30,400 it's always around values. If you set up what your key values are, like Patagonia again, 182 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,400 and people get attracted like bees to honey for those values, and they respect those founders 183 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,840 and those owners and they're communicated with, the key is that everybody's looking for meaning. 184 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:48,640 You know, if you study Victor Frankel, who was that psychologist, you know, who was pulled into 185 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:55,360 the concentration camps, his wife was killed, his family was killed, he survived. He leaves that, 186 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:02,000 and he writes down that he has a different thought or idea from Freud or Adler. He said, 187 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:09,760 you know, the main meaning is not sexual impulse. It's not power, which was Adler. He said is a deep 188 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:17,280 need for meaning. And if humans do not have it, because of the potential of our brains 189 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:23,840 and what we're capable of, we will go to something that feels meaningful. That's why you have men 190 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:29,760 flooding into the military when they have a life that is just bereft of relationship or love or 191 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:35,520 purpose. They find purpose there. You have people that will go and do everything they can to be an 192 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:42,320 influencer or to be wealthy or to be fabulously famous because that seems to bring some meaning. 193 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,560 And so there's this, you know, ultimately we go to violence and we're seeing a lot of that right now 194 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:53,520 because what gives you a sense of meaning more than death or near death? So if you as an employer, 195 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,320 what you're doing for the world, what the product that you have or the service, 196 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,840 and you can convey the meaning that it has for others and for the employees, 197 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:10,480 and create a set of values around that, people will come work for you for 15 to 20% below market, 198 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:18,560 if not for free. Here's the thing. They'll produce 50% more human productivity when appreciated 199 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:26,240 is it's, it crushes every other team. It's the one thing when you bring appreciation to your 200 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:32,000 employees. So I'm a leader of a couple of people in my team and all I do really is appreciate them. 201 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:37,120 I constantly tell them they're doing amazing, even if they're not. And guess what? They end up 202 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:43,040 making it more amazing. They always rise to my expectation rather than fall to my condemnation. 203 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,560 And I think that's what missing in a lot of organizations. Like, let's go back to Twitter, 204 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:59,280 which is Rich's example, is this, I think Elon went a little too far because he, he, he's basically 205 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:05,600 the exact opposite of an empath. He has almost no connection to his heart. Fair. And in doing so, 206 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,720 he missed out on all the creativity that has happened in Twitter. Twitter was an amazing 207 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:18,400 organization. It was almost to be corporate, it wasn't. And, but it was as a culture wise. Now, 208 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:24,080 it was an example of going so far way too far over on the right side towards the heart that 209 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:32,080 everyone can agree with. The, Williamson or Isaacson documented in Elon's book. So Twitter, 210 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,480 Elon took it all the way to the other side. It's, there is a balance in the middle that I think has 211 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:42,240 to happen for any organization because it's not just about, cause Elon is about productivity, 212 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,080 but you get better productivity when you take care of your people. 213 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,960 I do believe that he also though fair, fair to be spoken is that he brought up a lot of 214 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,640 corruption. There was definitely a lot of things and people that couldn't even have any voice, 215 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,520 whether you like it or not. First amendment, you know, allows you, you know, to be able to, 216 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,840 freedom of speech was completely shut down. So I think you're right there. He probably, 217 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,680 what he did is he threw the baby out with the bath water, right? But one of the things I wanted to 218 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:13,360 go back to is not only does Patagonia as an employer, meet the employees and help them be 219 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:18,080 productive, but they have a consumer base that's willing to pay more for something that's 220 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:24,480 made from recycled trash and plastic bottles. So you've got a great product now that's the 221 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:31,200 margins are high and you can spend $800 on a jacket and ski pants and you're doing it because 222 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,520 you're loyal to the cause. You know that it's going to be effective in the outdoors, but at the same 223 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,720 time, you know that the margins are probably really good for the same thing to be reinforced 224 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,360 again and again and again. And that brand loyalty, I think is absolutely incredible. 225 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:53,440 Well, that's like, so a couple other companies that are on the, on the B list include, um, 226 00:21:54,240 --> 00:22:00,720 Athleta, which we've probably heard Tom shoes. Tom shoes basically created a product that cost 227 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:07,280 about five bucks, but he based his margins on giving two pairs away. And that's just smart 228 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,600 business. He, he, he, his was a great marketing campaign. And I remember when he came out, 229 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:21,520 but it's always going back and, uh, reaching that point where you say our employees are the most 230 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,640 important thing. And when we do that, the second layer needs to be customers. Cause like you said, 231 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,600 Rich, when you create an amazing product, you want to support it. And if those two happen, 232 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:37,520 then shareholders make a lot of money. That to me is a theory. And we're so out of balance, 233 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:43,840 given AI and what we know about human productivity, if we would write the ship, we would be able to 234 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:49,120 create, um, amazing new amounts of productivity because people want to show up for work. 235 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:55,520 I do have to mention something really quickly. Unfortunately for, um, Tom's Blake Mycoskie, um, 236 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:01,680 sold half the company to Bain capital as they were my customer. I brought them on to LinkedIn 237 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:08,240 back in the 2013s, 14s, 15s. And, um, a lot of people were absolutely devastated because I don't 238 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:13,440 know what happened because he expanded into eyeglasses as well as coffee. In addition to the 239 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:19,040 original shoes that he had and everybody loved it. We were all there. We'll take off your shoe day. 240 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:24,320 And then I'm seeing him come in and talk about a PR disaster. There was a, there's a video of him 241 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:31,120 in an Avis commercial. He shows up in a suburban as the only person driving to go visit, let's say 242 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:36,720 a customer. So rather than showing up in a Prius or something, some ride share, he's driving as an 243 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:42,240 advertisement for Avis, the only guy in an eight passenger, you know, suburban that's getting eight 244 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:48,000 miles to the gallon. I'm like having to mortgage Roy, please somebody do a PR for this guy. But, 245 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,640 um, anyway, it's funny how it goes, but Lori, I wanted to pivot back to you because we're 246 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:58,400 talking about kind of these global perspectives. I'd love to hear, um, specifically how you're 247 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:03,600 helping out individuals go through their day to day, um, either through a layoff or some kind of 248 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,400 trauma or through pattern, Matt leave, and then maybe, um, highlight what we talked about earlier 249 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,000 with that video. And so tell us a little bit about how you're getting in the weeds and helping out. 250 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,000 Um, I think you're stop, you're doing that as well, right? Are you, are you helping individuals as 251 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,200 well as, um, okay, great. Yeah. So career ecology, um, I think it's a, it's a, it's a 252 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:28,640 career ecology, um, in this masterclass is all about, um, empowerment through authentic relating. 253 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,520 And you, what I find, I think it also goes to the organizations is that, you know, what do you really 254 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,920 care about? What are you really all about? If you can touch into that and you can express that, 255 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:44,160 then we can find that an ecosystem integrates well. You know, we would, if you look out your window 256 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,960 right now, I'd never want to see, you know, maybe a bee that's jealous of the hummingbird because it 257 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,720 can't fly as high. So it's just going to sit in its hive and eat honey and be all depressed and, 258 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:59,600 just do that. Thank goodness in nature, every single being an aspect of nature is all about 259 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:05,360 living vibrantly into what it is and what its gift is and what it brings. I have found as a recruiter 260 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:10,640 and now as career ecology is the founder of this is that people, especially in our country, if you 261 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:17,840 are an introvert, that you have a harder time interviewing, getting hired, and maybe even growing 262 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:25,280 in your role. I am an extrovert. I am married to a deep introvert. I would say he is Charlie Brown 263 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:31,440 level introvert, okay? A melancholic cynic as well. And he is my soulmate and I love him. He 264 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:37,680 has showed me so much of the value in those that are looking for danger. Maybe they're the ones in 265 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,600 the meeting that says, that's not going to work. And here's why. And people are used to here in 266 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,880 America. We're like, we don't want to hear that. We're just going to rush forward. But there's this 267 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,800 whole process of going slow, staying curious. This is where we're bringing in some of the feminine 268 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,680 aspects about making really good choices where in a sense we're putting down a taproot. 269 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:02,640 I think about the experiment that happened years ago, I think it was in Nevada, and an organization 270 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:08,320 made a bio bubble or kind of a biosphere and they wanted to make like a garden of Eden. 271 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:14,080 And they planted all these trees and all these ferns and everything. It was perfect. And then, 272 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,840 and there was like, there was no fungus, there was no problem. You know, everything was thriving. 273 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:23,360 And then they went ahead and took off the cover and the slightest wind blew and the trees fell 274 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:29,280 over. It turns out that they didn't have a chance through the normal sort of back and forth and 275 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,960 crisis and learning and growing together that they didn't establish a root structure. So what 276 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:40,720 I'm doing when I work with individuals is I'm saying, let's go deeper than just this surfacey 277 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,440 thing that unfortunately happens a lot in this country of you're successful if you're, you know, 278 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:51,200 beautiful and rich and on top of it and kicking it and crushing it. You know, who are you? What is it 279 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:56,320 that you really care about? What can you really bring? And so we start with this responsive resume. 280 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:01,360 I used to call it feng shui resume. Do you guys know what feng shui is? Do you know that term? 281 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:05,920 Okay. Some people are like, what? You know, and it's ancient Chinese. It's this idea 282 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:11,920 that wind and water can move through a room, in this case, through a resume. If it moves through 283 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,120 unobstructed, then you're going to have, you're going to be rewarded really with just, you know, 284 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:22,160 all sorts of prosperity in many, many different ways. And so the first thing I do is I guide people 285 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:27,840 back intimately to themselves and they write their own resume under my guidance. Let me tell you 286 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,360 something. This is not easy for people. They are used to outsourcing that they don't want to look 287 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:37,520 at themselves. They're not sure what they're going to see. And they have spent their whole time 288 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,680 running and chasing to try to make money that they've even forgotten all the good stuff that 289 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,320 they've done. So we stop, they have to take a breath and they have to work with me and they have 290 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,960 to come back into relationship with self. And that's the beginning of it. And that is really, 291 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,720 one man just told me it was the hardest thing he's ever done. He's in his mid fifties now. 292 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,200 He's been a CEO, completely forgot all his value because now he's into the age of his own concerns. 293 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,160 And just to take, it took him four months to get through it and he's a changed man. You know, 294 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,920 he's lit up through a resume. That's what it can do. It's kind of cool. 295 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:17,680 What is your outcome for your clients that you work with? What is the sort of the promise of your 296 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:18,480 organization? 297 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:27,920 Yes, it is success infused with wellness and infused with wellbeing. You don't have to suffer 298 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:35,120 it need not be a complete take down of your mental state of your financial situation. 299 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,680 If we can, we've been talking a little bit about left brain, right brain, masculine, feminine. 300 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,960 We want a union of all of this. The problem is that we get all separate, right? And we want this 301 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:51,040 gorgeous, sexy, passionate, you know, come back to each other kind of union. And so when I'm 302 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:57,200 helping people to reclaim their heart intelligence and I say, basically my phrase is that we need to 303 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,920 be part of our life. And so, basically, my phrase is that, you know, when your mind intelligence 304 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:08,240 bows to heart intelligence, then life harmonizes. But the heart is the poet in the corner of the 305 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:16,240 room. It's the quiet introvert. The ego is the extrovert that really takes off... Ego is Elan, 306 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:22,160 right? And then we have, we'll have the introvert that might be the, somebody that's working in 307 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,320 the ballet or art or something, or some sort of art infusion, or something that really does 308 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,880 We always need to have that meaning and that soulfulness. So people come back to themselves. 309 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,680 I had one gentleman who I was helping who had gone six months. He's a software engineer, brilliant. 310 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,920 He was interviewing, not getting chosen, interviewing, not getting chosen. He got to the 311 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,320 point where he stopped showering, stopped hugging his kids. He stopped taking any necessary meds 312 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:50,320 that he was on. He became extremely depressed. And I took him through and taught him the truth 313 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,960 about interviewing. And I said, this is not a moment of performance, whether or not you're good 314 00:29:54,960 --> 00:30:01,120 enough. This is a moment of human connection. This is a moment of service. And I want you, 315 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,760 and I'm going to teach you to interview from the place of how can I help you know me? 316 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:13,920 And then even if that person on the other end is a bully or they're very shy, not good at this, 317 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,400 or anything kind of happens, it seems like a huge distraction that normally would pull you off your 318 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,920 game. When you're interviewing from that place of service, then you lean in because your mind is 319 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:31,280 saying and your heart is saying, oh, this is odd. This requires my assistance. So we get away from 320 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:36,080 the ego, which does a lot of damage when we're trying to meet someone new, because it's all 321 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:42,480 performance. I love that process. When you're in that funnel, and I believe that's how you 322 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,760 differentiate, there's an intentionality and that heart comes through and there's nothing to deny it. 323 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,080 Right? When you're truly intentional and your heart and mind is aligned and you're having these 324 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:57,360 conversations or you're having these dialogues, I think people can feel that. However, I've got 325 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,760 some really good friends who have been out of work for a year. We're talking really good salespeople, 326 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,920 some of them who I've worked at LinkedIn, another gal just got a job after getting laid off in 327 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:12,480 October and they've sent out hundreds of resumes, applied for hundreds of jobs, barely gotten a 328 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:17,440 response back on one or two and had a handful and they're really in a despondent state. So where do 329 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,040 you, let's say you're in that top of the funnel where you're still just trying to get something. 330 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:28,320 Yeah. How did you have a similar, tell us how you suggest my friend go through that process and what 331 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:34,800 to do? Yes, I'm so appreciate that you brought that up because what part of what I'm teaching 332 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,360 through Career Ecology is not only the authentic relating, so really that resume, the linear style 333 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,960 is from the industrial age. It's like, okay, you're a widget, you're a widget. So I use Fengzhuo 334 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,760 resume allows you to shine and show up in a really interesting way that hiring managers need to see. 335 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,160 There's the mindful interviewing, but here's the thing. There is this process that I call the 336 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:59,600 dynamic search and I'm using the word dynamic from the farm. But what I'm saying to people is 337 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,640 you want to create a vibrant farm. You cannot plant just one seed and expect that the environment 338 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:10,240 and that the soil and that everything else that the rest of the beings kind of in this farm want 339 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:16,320 or need and what's going to happen. It needs to be diverse crop. So these, this couple that did 340 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,040 this farm, they said, oh sure, we'll come up with eight different stone fruit trees. That's diverse. 341 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:28,080 And their consultant said, that's a joke. He said, we need 80 varieties. Right now, the honeybee, 342 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:33,280 there's about, I think, 115 varieties of the honeybee. And the reason for that is that there 343 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:38,080 could be any sort of fungus or any sort of change in temperature and that one is sort of taken out 344 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,760 for a while. So what I guide people when they're looking for jobs and what I would say to these 345 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:47,280 people that have been out for a year is that the match between or the marriage between the left 346 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,640 brain and the right brain is that you need to look at this strategically to the extent that you want 347 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:58,240 to have a three-fold path because you got to collaborate with chance. You might be hitting a 348 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,720 wall here because you're actually supposed to go ahead and kind of gig it with part-time and start 349 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,360 your own company. You know, that's actually going to be aligned with your highest good. But if 350 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:14,320 you're not playing at least more than one, up to three at a time, then you're not actually using 351 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,280 that strategic partner, which is mystery. You know, 50% is your engagement. The other half, 352 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,520 everything outside of your control. You could be interviewing for that job and then boom, 353 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:28,560 somebody's cousin comes in and they get hired. But we can look at that as guidance because that 354 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,800 door shut because that's not actually for your highest good. So there's this spiritual almost 355 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:38,400 aspect that says, all right, bring it on. I am going to do this in a way that my left brain loves. 356 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,880 I have a strategy. I even have a spreadsheet. I even have data and statistics and I have networking 357 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,760 and I'm doing it all right, but I'm going to play with chance and I'm going to see kind of that 358 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,640 power of yes, where am I going to end up? And it's going to be a wild ride and just watch the show. 359 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:53,520 Because here I go. 360 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,040 Yeah. So you said a three-fold path. Do you actually, can you delineate those up for us, 361 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,360 please? Yeah. So what I'll say to somebody, I'll say, all right, first of all, what is your status 362 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,480 quote? So let's say it's your salesperson. Well, I should be hired for this because I've been doing 363 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,400 it for X amount of years and I have success. Okay. So let's make that, let's make that easy. 364 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:19,360 Let's go after that for now. Second option is slightly divergent. So let's, this is a salesperson. 365 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,040 Well, what if they, their divergent was a whole different industry sector or what if it was that 366 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,040 they decide to go into sales training instead of being a salesperson, you know, things like this. 367 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:34,800 So we go divergent. And then the third one is out of the box. So there was a woman, one time I was 368 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,360 taking her through her three-folds. She had her first, her second, those are obvious. The third 369 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:44,080 one, she, she was a pharmacist. Third one, she said to me, you know, Lori, I'm nervous. I'm embarrassed. 370 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,920 I don't want to tell you. I'm embarrassed. It's stupid. And I said, that's the point. What's on 371 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:53,360 your mind? What is that really out of the box? And she said, well, first of all, I'm going to 372 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:59,040 go to the library science. And she said, well, I'm completing right now certification in library 373 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:04,640 science. And you know, here she is a pharmacist. And I said, library science. She says, Lori, I 374 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:10,160 love the idea of knowledge and sharing, even like the quietness. She's just into it. And I said, 375 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:15,840 well, turns out that one of my best friends is the Dean of the medical library at Stanford. 376 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:21,680 Would you like to have lunch? She now works there. She is living out her dream. And the only reason 377 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:29,280 why she's doing this is because she had a three-fold path. I love this so much. Yeah. I think Lori, 378 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:36,320 what do you tell people who are taking like the true out of the bucket? Like what would you say 379 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,320 to them to give them the courage? Because I think a lot of more people want the out of the bucket 380 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:46,000 than the other two. I think people are tired of the sass quo. They don't want something a little 381 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:52,960 bit more meaningful. They want something meaningful. What do you tell those people? Yeah. You know, I 382 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:59,440 say, I'm going to have to teach you to say, I don't know. Sometimes I want you to be able to live with 383 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:05,520 not knowing and trusting that as you are going through and you're applying to these jobs and 384 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,880 these three different ways that you're going to go with the outcome. And this is how you get to 385 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:17,680 live it as this collaboration with this amazing universe. I think we get into trouble as humans 386 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:23,600 because we think we control and know everything. You know, we are in this vast universe that is so 387 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:28,400 complex right now here in California. There could be a nine, on the Richter scale, some sort of 388 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,640 earthquake, you know, and that can completely change the trajectory of my life right now. 389 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,120 I have already done all my personal work in my life through therapy, through being married to 390 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,560 my soulmate who I've tried to divorce a thousand times because we love each other so much. So we 391 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:46,080 fight, you know, through, you know, being my own business owner, being a recruiter is very Zen. 392 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:52,400 You have no control. So I've done all of my work now that I just say crisis is actually an opening. 393 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:58,560 Change is an opening. It's moving me forward because my end result is I want to know love. 394 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,320 So I don't want to be so controlled. I don't want to choke it. So when people work with me, 395 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:10,560 I say, you know what, this is this experience. It's practical and it's poetic. Your soul's dying. 396 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:16,400 Your soul needs to feel it's like it's dying for meaning. So let's bring back the working soul 397 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,040 and let's have a ball, you know? And so everyone who works with me, we're really going through it 398 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,960 that way and they have to feel the burn and they have to show up for themselves. And at the end, 399 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:31,280 they're like, I am like a monarch butterfly. I have shed a lot. I have been in the dark chrysalis. 400 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,880 I'm out now and I'm a little weary, but I'm ready to fly. You know, that's why it's a hero's journey. 401 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:42,240 Organizational life is decidedly masculine and it's trying to shift. 402 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:51,280 And this is where I wish organizations would really understand if you learned how to take care 403 00:37:51,280 --> 00:38:00,400 of people effectively to say, let's help you find your best space. Even if you come in one way, 404 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:06,400 that may not be your best space. Like IBM, my dad worked for IBM for 25 years and their policy was 405 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,840 you may not be a good fit here, but you're smart enough to get hired here. So we're going to find 406 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,400 where you should go. That is an organization that cares about its people. They don't do that. They 407 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:24,560 actually cut that out. And it's the shift where people can find that out of the box. Like I 408 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,560 appreciate organizations that have a policy that we're going to lay you off, but we're going to 409 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:35,680 help you find your next journey. It's like have the sense of compassion because there's a lot of 410 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,960 goodwill created for both sets of employees, the ones that are exiting and ones that are staying 411 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:47,120 going, we don't work for a shitty organization. It's like when people cut out, Facebook laid off 412 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:53,360 what? 10,000 people recently and all the organizations went through a huge layoff last 413 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:58,560 year and it's getting to the point where we got to start caring about people. It's starting to happen 414 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:04,560 again. My colleague just said Google, Amazon and Citibank are all laying off massive amounts of 415 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:10,880 people, Jonathan. He did mention this today. So something's going to happen in 2024 and I think 416 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:17,520 the way you break through it is through community and these heart-centered groups that can actually 417 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:23,920 work together to find that right spot for people. Maybe we call it serendipity, but it's actually 418 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:30,160 not. It's manifesting intentionally coming through. I mean, Lori, I've had a tough go. I've been in 419 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,520 sales my whole life, loved ADP and LinkedIn, made lots of present clubs. And when you get in the 420 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:41,200 50s and you are in enterprise sales and you go through a challenging set of years at COVID, 421 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,280 you're wondering what the hell's wrong with me, right? And I've talked to lots of really good 422 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:50,560 friends who are like, Rich, we've crushed it together. We were sitting up on stage seven 423 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:57,040 years ago and I don't know if I know how to sell anymore. And I did a lot of work with Jonathan in 424 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:02,240 terms of like, I've been doing a lot of meditation and a lot of manifestation work and I had one of 425 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:08,080 the best years of my entire life actually just made club. And it's been a lot of, you know, 426 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,240 By 20%, it was crazy. 427 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:17,440 Yeah. So what I'm getting that though is, is like when you look at the reality of that. And so 428 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:22,560 I was trying to come up with something more specific and I don't think it was regarding the 429 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:30,240 layoffs here, but there's this place where if you open up your mind to what could be out there and 430 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:34,480 your heart is aligned with that. And then your mind is, it will come, you draw it through. 431 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,600 Jonathan, we talked about this kind of manifestation where you're drawing these things 432 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,880 to through to you. And sometimes we have to fake it till you make it. But when you actually start 433 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,640 spending your time with the right people and then tapping into meditation and prayer, that's when 434 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:56,640 it starts to go beyond just being a crapshoot and actually being real. And I just, maybe that's a 435 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:02,960 good time to pivot because I'm thinking about this gal, Brittany, who was on, she had hundreds of 436 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:09,120 thousands of views. She recorded her termination at CloudFlare. She was with a number of people. 437 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,920 She's setting this up and she's basically saying, can you tell me why you're getting rid of me? 438 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:19,920 And I loved her strength because they couldn't fire her for performance because she was saying, 439 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,120 I did all the right things. I had all the right activity. And by the way, I've only been here for 440 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,760 four months, right? Including some of the hardest times of the year to sell. So you firing me 441 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:32,880 because you hired too many people and you made a mistake budget-wise or you firing me for other 442 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,120 reasons. And I think she did a great job because she was being talked to by two people she'd never 443 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:43,520 seen before. So what advice would you give Brittany and or others that are going through the same 444 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,120 thing as she is today? 445 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:51,120 Hmm. Yeah. Boy, first of all, I just want to give her a hug. Oh, God. Just the look on her face, 446 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:56,080 just the, you could tell that she wished her manager was there. She just wished that she was 447 00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,800 so different. It was so cold. You know, it felt so cold. And I know the people in the other end, 448 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:05,680 it wasn't fun for them. You know, when I look at that situation and this kind of goes back to what 449 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,240 Jonathan was saying as well, is that, you know, going forward, when people get hired, if we can 450 00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:17,360 have an inspirational meeting that says, folks, we are here, part of this vast ecosystem and we're 451 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:24,240 shapeshifters. Like we don't know if supply lines could shut down tomorrow. And I think that's 452 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:30,480 going to happen. We don't know if we could shut down tomorrow and we have to stop a whole product 453 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:35,280 line, which means that we would have to shift and maybe we would have to let go of some of you. 454 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,680 We don't know because we don't control because we know the world is full of war right now. You 455 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:44,480 know, the whole bunch going on with all of these materials. So there's this aspect of even being a 456 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:50,480 leader that we start to help advance people to be more comfortable with sudden change. So perhaps in 457 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:55,840 here's our situation, here's our environment. We are competing. We hope we have the best, but we're 458 00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,000 going to keep you informed. And if we have to shape shift, we've already got something like, hey, 459 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,120 we got Career Ecology. They're all about, you know, that'd be amazing. So I'm trying to talk 460 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,760 to companies. We got somebody who's here to hold and empower you politically and in every way, 461 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:13,680 practically. So we got you if that happens. But of course, this was not the case. So what she's 462 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:19,040 experiencing is something I called antagonistic mentoring. And I teach this through the work I do. 463 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:24,000 And it's something I learned from Michael Mead, who is one of my very favorite podcasters in the 464 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:31,440 space of mythology. And what he helps us understand is that those mentors in our life that help us 465 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:40,240 grow or succeed, it's really the ones that create a crisis that force us out of one place in our 466 00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:44,640 life or something that we're doing or some sort of situation and forces us very quickly over here 467 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:50,000 that you can look at where you have the greatest change in growth. It's the ones that are just nice 468 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,840 mentors that are just kind of helping you, but you're really still a little bit neutral. Things 469 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,480 aren't really changing. So we can change the mindset. So the first thing that I would do with 470 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,400 her and people who I work with who have been laid off is we first vent through the trauma. 471 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,920 And we experience that like Gabor Mate would talk about, you know, that trauma. We don't want to 472 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,160 just develop coping mechanisms. We want it to be out because that's part of the heat. It's part of 473 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:18,480 the fire. So we want to feel that. And then we talk about this is in service to you. And I know it 474 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,760 doesn't feel like it, but there is something that awaits you. So after you've had your time off and 475 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,640 you're crying and you're still going to feel those things, let's get on with collaborating with the 476 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:34,560 mystery and let's find out what awaits you because this was so abrupt. There's definitely something 477 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:41,520 coming and it's going to be great. I've seen a thousand times. Yeah. Laurie, I want to ask you 478 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:49,280 because we talked about this before we started recording. Help us understand the career hero's 479 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:56,080 journey. Help us understand that. The modern day hero's journey. My head goes around. So I want to 480 00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:04,480 say being a salesperson is also a hero's journey. It's very hard because you don't know anything. 481 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,880 Everything is proving yourself every day. Every day. Every day. It's like, you know, 482 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:16,160 how, if you guys have ever seen a honeybee again, that's like dying and you're like, oh, it's this 483 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:22,080 1000th flight and it's a little wings are tattered. That's what it's like to be a salesperson. 484 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:27,200 That's what it's like to be looking for a job. You're constantly out there going for the pollen, 485 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:32,240 trying to get it, you know, trying to bring it back, trying to make honey. So it is, I see it 486 00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:36,000 as a hero's journey because especially when you've been let go, like in Brittany's case, 487 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:41,120 she is now thrust out and she has all sorts of emotions and feelings. So, you know, wondering 488 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,160 if she's good enough and what does she do wrong? What's she going to do now? And how is she going 489 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,680 to pay her Morgan? She has $3,000 in her credit. I'm making this up, but you know, whatever her 490 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:53,120 bills might be. So you're thrust out. And if you weren't given any help with any sort of outplacement, 491 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:58,000 again, I want it to be empowerment, then it's like you've been thrust out into this like dark woods 492 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:02,640 and you don't know, like, you don't understand where food is. You don't know where water is. 493 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:07,520 When it gets dark, you're afraid you're going to get eaten. You know, and your job is to try to go 494 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:12,160 up that mountain, see a vision and find your way back to some sort of wonderful place to live. 495 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:20,400 And so I see it as primal. I see this in between job thing with all the rejection, all the ghosting 496 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:28,320 that it touches someplace deep down where we're afraid of dying. And our modern world has progressed 497 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:34,080 much faster than our nervous systems. I get ghosted by a friend and I'm out of my mind, 498 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:40,320 like worried, you know, I'm very sensitive. So ghosting to me goes very quickly back to a 499 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:46,320 primal fear. And I get pretty bitter. Some people not as much, but it really does affect all of us. 500 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:52,160 And so it is a hero's journey where if we can, if you imagine like the round table, you know, 501 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:59,360 Arthur and all of that, those nights were sent out on their quest with an Excalibur, with food, 502 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:05,040 with a trusty horse, you know, whatever they needed. And off they went into the treacherous woods 503 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,640 and they found their way. And by the end they were more resilient and they were heroes. 504 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,640 So I show up for people and I say, I got your granola bar. I got your compass. I got your water 505 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,520 bottle. You're the one who's climbing the mountain. I'm not your coach. I'm actually your Sherpa. 506 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,400 And I'm going to help you get there. Cause I know you haven't been here lately. 507 00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:25,680 And it's not as scary as it looks. Yeah. 508 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,960 What do you tell them when they want to turn back down to the mountain or down and go back down? 509 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:36,320 Sometimes, you know, since they are the ones that are in charge of that, I have people that work 510 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:42,640 for me. Yeah, I'm the Sherpa. And so they, if they want to go and sit at the bottom of that mountain 511 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:47,440 and they need to sit there and feel the feels, they got to sit there and I will hold space for 512 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:53,840 that because part of this process is really facing something in yourself. And there may be, you know, 513 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,560 for women, especially, um, it was only a couple of years ago when I coach women that are going 514 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,880 through a job process and you know how you have to fill out that, that survey sometimes like that 515 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:07,600 psychological survey to see if you fit the culture. It was only a few years ago that I would say to 516 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:14,000 women, fill it out as you are, as your masculine and feminine self. In the past, I would say, 517 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:20,720 fill it out as your work self, your masculine self. You can't be all in. Um, so sometimes for women, 518 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:26,160 I find that they sit at the foot of the mountain because they're not sure it's okay to be upset. 519 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:31,360 They're not sure that they can have access to their rage and to their emotion, to their power 520 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,600 sense, to their power center. And so sometimes it's just almost sitting in there on the fire 521 00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:40,640 and then realizing, I got to go. I can't just live here. You know, there's this, it's time to 522 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:46,240 change. So I'm very patient with people and very, very compassionate, but I nudge them though. I 523 00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:50,880 just say, Hey, it's almost the new year. You want to get that resume done? Let's get that one out 524 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:56,480 there. You know, gotta be encouraging. So Laura, we have time for about two more questions and 525 00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:04,240 I'll take the first one, Rich, you can set yours up. You, uh, have this idea of the trauma of 526 00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:11,680 interviewing that no one is talking about. What is that? Yeah. Ooh. You know, when I told you a 527 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:17,200 little bit ago, I spoke of the gentleman who had six, it was six months of interviewing and all 528 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:22,160 these nodes got to the point. And, and there's, there's so many people I can think of through the 529 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:27,600 years that they'll get to the interview and they come forward already assuming that they'll be 530 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:36,800 rejected. And it's so traumatizing because what's going on is actually self abandonment, 531 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:43,520 which is the worst kind, right? The worst kind. So you know what happens? I have come to know, 532 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,840 and this is something similar because we're all part of the same world and culture. So have you 533 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,080 both, either one of you ever had the dream that you missed an exam in college or you even forgot 534 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:59,040 you had the course? Yes. That scary dream. Yes. I get teeth falling out and sometimes flying dreams 535 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:05,520 and sometimes, um, like falling dreams off cliffs and stuff, but I've not had the forgetting about 536 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:11,760 the exams. Not yet. I've had the teeth one. Oh, that's a, that's a really gnarly dream. 537 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:18,240 I've had that one. Oh my gosh. So typically what people unconsciously or sometime consciously say 538 00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:22,800 to themselves the night before an interview is this is this negative ego voice. And the first 539 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:28,000 message is, uh, dude, you know what? You've been so busy. You haven't had time to prepare. 540 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,720 You're going to make a fool of yourself tomorrow. Just no, don't do it. You know, cause the ego 541 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:38,160 wants you to actually quit it. It doesn't want you to go into a situation where you might be 542 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:43,600 rejected. So the ego's like, no, no. The second message of the ego is, and by the way, you're just 543 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:49,360 not good enough. So just quit. So I actually have people the night before interviews. They are a 544 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:54,960 part of their work with me is that they say these two positive mantras out loud as the last thing 545 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,200 before the lights go out. And I want it out loud because it needs to vibrate through the body. It 546 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:04,880 can't just be like a passing cloud. And so the two positive mantras, the first one is I am ready. 547 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:12,640 And I have access to everything I need to connect. That is a very powerful mantra because that second 548 00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:17,360 part, I have access. If you just did, I'm ready. The ego goes, no, you're not. And you go, yes, 549 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:23,360 I am. No, I'm not. It's just an argument. Um, but the truth is you do have access. You, there's so 550 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:30,320 much you can talk about. You still can respond no matter what. The second mantra is, and I'm a good 551 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:37,840 person and I bring tremendous value to this world. And that sounds like, Oh, isn't that maybe just 552 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:43,040 toxically positive? Well, it's actually based on two principles of nature, which is diversity and 553 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:49,680 cooperation. So if we don't have anybody's unique voice, then diversity is not served. And if 554 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,760 diversity is not served, life is not served. If life is not served, love is not served. 555 00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:00,160 So I bring home to people don't care about if you're new grad and you're only 21 and you think you 556 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:05,200 have no voice or no value, or if you're 60 and you're worried now that ageism is coming into 557 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:12,800 play, all of wherever you are, wherever you bring is unique. Only you bring it. And that's what it 558 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:20,640 matters. They got to know it here first, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I was coming up with 559 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:26,400 two questions and one of them was more of a funny pun, pun, you know, tongue in cheek. And that is, 560 00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:31,360 how do we introduce cortisol to pregnant women instead of Pitocin to have babies based on your 561 00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:40,560 9-11 example? The second one is more specific to my son and his colleagues. So he works for a 562 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:47,280 staffing agency that provides obviously people and bodies to their clients whom they represent. And 563 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:54,480 they are in the fire alarm installation side of things. They're in the AV, audio video world, like 564 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:59,520 multi, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars to put in sound equipment and lighting and stuff 565 00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:06,160 for these places. And then thirdly, I think they do more security kinds of like CCTV can, you know, 566 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:11,520 which is important for security. So he's got a very limited space with these people he's talking to, 567 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:16,240 unlike what you're saying, hey, you've got the status quo, you've got this idea of a slight 568 00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:21,840 divergence, or let's open up, you know, out of the box scenario. He can't provide, hey, you've been 569 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:26,240 here, you've been doing this. Well, maybe he can. Maybe he can actually say, listen, you've been used 570 00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:31,600 to doing AV, go over here. So what would you suggest for some folks that maybe are living in 571 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:37,200 swim lanes that don't have as much flexibility to have the threefold path? Yeah, you know, I think 572 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:43,280 you might be surprised like that pharmacist, you know, she went to be that librarian. But of course, 573 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:49,360 it was medical. So that was the stream across. What I find is that people might be surprised that when 574 00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:55,360 they're talking to a mentor or somebody like me, like a doula, and that I just bring that conversation 575 00:53:55,360 --> 00:54:00,480 alive of what they love and what they do. You know, I've had people talk to me about, gosh, you know, 576 00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:04,880 I just love travels so much, you know, and there's this whole concept of have you ever thought about 577 00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:10,880 matching your sales to something to do with working for like a Marriott, you know, where now you get 578 00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:17,600 to travel the world, especially when you have sales skills. Oh, my gosh, those are transferable, 579 00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:24,240 so far, so far, so far. You know, right? That mean the sales, that you're the number one skill, 580 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:29,440 it is the number one skill you want to have in all of business. Yeah, it really is. And you know what 581 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:35,840 I'm finding? There are people that are becoming freelance salespeople. Oh, freelance. Well, 582 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:40,160 affiliate marketers buy on their own right, right? If they become more and more, if they know how to 583 00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:45,760 grasp an understanding of something, they can then just be this kind of local focal point, if you 584 00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:50,160 would, of additional touching points and then become, you know, very valuable in that regard, 585 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,400 or they can actually go into their own trade, right? So what were you gonna say, Jonathan? 586 00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:02,720 No, I forgot. It's okay. Laurie, I want to thank you so much for joining us. This has been, 587 00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:07,120 this is every time we say this, we said this has been a fabulous conversation. You, 588 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:14,080 what I love is your spirit in your heart, because what you're after is people. And I love that, 589 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:20,400 because at the end of the day, that is always going to nurture something good. And so thank 590 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:26,960 you for being a guest on our podcast. This has been a wonderful experience. And Rich, any final 591 00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:32,640 words? Yeah, you know, what's great about this is, Laurie, we've often focused on the idea that we 592 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:38,480 bring on folks that are outside the status quo. And you do meet that definition of doing things 593 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:44,880 with the heart and tapping into things that involve Feng Shui and just, you know, just ideas of 594 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:49,280 spiritual guidance and of course, you know, right brain, but at the same time, you offered really 595 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,040 practical kinds of things for people that are hurting, including Brittany out there. And so 596 00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:58,080 what I loved about this particular podcast, Jonathan, is we've got some folks that are just 597 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,160 out there, right? Laurie, they're throwing out stuff like we're, I've been to the highest heavens, 598 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:06,080 I've seen God, you know, and then we've seen others that are like, we're getting down into 599 00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:12,560 more of the trenches, right? And I just love both your, you know, you this warm kind of spiritual 600 00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:18,000 mother, you know, Sherpa perspective at the same time, offering real life practical solutions for 601 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:22,240 people who are desperately needing it right now. So thank you so much. Yeah, I'm going to take away 602 00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:27,520 your Sherpa. That to me is the number one thing I'm taking away because I love the concept of, 603 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:33,920 I'm here to support your journey. I'm not here to tell you what to do. The traditional coaching 604 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:39,600 model tells people what to do. You're trying to nurture them to discover it for themselves. So I 605 00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:47,600 love that. Yes, that's it. Bingo. Thank you guys. I've really enjoyed this. I wish that we could 606 00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,120 just have like a whole weekend and just talk about the whole world. And I wish that we could, you 607 00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:56,640 know, run it because I know we've got the perspectives in this room. I love both coming, 608 00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:01,440 the left, right brain and you know, masking and feminine and conservative, liberal and everything 609 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:06,560 that was in here because we want to come back to each other. And I talked about earlier union, 610 00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:11,680 there's nothing more romantic and more amazing than union and for everyone to come back, 611 00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,440 fall in love with each other again. So I appreciate that energy you bring. 612 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:22,960 Very much. Awesome. So thank you everyone for listening. This has been again, one of my favorite 613 00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:28,000 episodes. They're always so good because I think we find really amazing people. So Lori, thank you 614 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:32,880 for joining us. To all of our listeners, please comment, review. We'd love to hear from you, 615 00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:39,680 suggest guests. We find a lot of our guests from suggestions. So but we will see you in a week 616 00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:58,480 and have a great weekend, everybody. Much love.