Welcome to Living in the Matrix. I'm Jonathan and I'm left of center.
And I'm Rich and I tend to lean a little bit more to the right.
But the bottom line is, is together we try to look for the balance of what it
means to be human in today's world.
Yeah, let's get started and welcome everybody to this Living in the Matrix.
I'm Jonathan. This is Rich. Say hello, Rich.
Everybody looking forward to part two with Cleburne.
Yeah, today we have Cleburne Walker. Welcome Cleburne.
It is wonderful to have you back.
Appreciate you guys for having me.
It was really fun getting to chop it up last time.
Yeah. So believe it or not, this episode kind of went wildfire.
People responded a lot.
Our stats went up way a lot.
And I'm excited to dive into part two.
We realized we had a ton of topics we didn't really get to cover.
And the three are shadow work, Jesus in the wilderness.
And what was the third one, guys?
The CIA. Oh, yeah.
Jesus in the wilderness, the Magi, right?
Yes. Yeah. And the CIA and the CIA.
Yeah, we got to talk about these subjects.
And so if you're wondering what we're going to talk about today,
this is part two with Cleburne and we're going to dive into some really cool stuff.
But. So.
To start, Cleburne, we as we were talking about before the show,
we missed shadow work, and that was something we really wanted to talk about.
And so why don't we start with the idea of what do you mean by shadow work?
When you say those words.
All right. So shadow work,
especially for the people who feel like that is teetering towards demonic territory.
Absolutely. Listen to this.
This is the most important part you're probably going to take away.
So shadow work are those parts of ourselves that we do not look at.
It's the parts of ourselves that we either ignore or judge or avoid.
And anything that is ignored within us gets projected outwardly.
So inside of each of us is the capacity for as much as anyone else has the capacity for.
This can be pretty well evidenced after we've lived through the past few years,
after we lived through the onset of the COVID era,
it became pretty quick to realize how much of a shadow work we have.
It became pretty quick to realize how if we were alive at a different time and place,
how easily we could be split up on either side of a topic and be pretty well radicalized.
Right. So that is the outward projection of the individual's unmet shadows.
So to get into shadow work, that is walking into the places of yourself
that you used to not want to look at.
Who would I be if? How bad could I be if?
How ashamed am I really of these things I have done wrong or deep down know that I could be
potentially capable of if I was in that circumstance?
If it was me doing that thing that that person did that I'm judging deep down,
would I really have done any better or different? Maybe not.
So spending time in that energy and looking at it and watching it lose its power,
now you have less fear of it.
And then eventually what happens is when you start to explore those energies within yourself
and they become illuminated, you can start to realize that the shadows are the places
where you haven't put your conscious attention because where your attention goes,
you can see clearly and things become illuminated.
You begin to realize you are the light where your attention goes with a accepting,
non fearful, loving energy.
That is the Christ within each of us.
That is your light.
And that must be a solo internal practice first going inside and reconciling all of your capacity
for good or bad.
And as you do that, as you start to accept the parts of yourself that you wouldn't have
looked at before or would otherwise be ashamed of and love it enough to say, man, all right,
so I'm aware that under certain circumstances, this aspect of my potential might come out
and it's not good.
So for the people outside of me who for whatever circumstances they were in did bring that
out of them, you can extend love, not permission necessarily, not saying, hey, it's all good.
It's not all good.
But you can understand and love them without judgment, the difference between discernment
and judgment.
And this is where you get into where people think it's demonic.
And as sort of we chatted about last time, demons are just an energy.
They're just a function of nature, right?
They're no different than a gust of wind.
They're just an energy body that latches onto people that cannot remain in the presence
of love.
They feed on fear and shame and all that opposite end of the spectrum.
They cannot remain in the presence of love.
So as you go into your shadows and put your conscious awareness on it, now you see that
area that seemed dark only because you weren't looking at it.
But where you put your eyes within yourself, the light goes because your consciousness
is the light that is the Christ within you.
And as you illuminate those parts of yourself that were previously dark, that is integrating
your shadow and filling out your body more with light.
So you're not just partially lit up.
You are a become a whole lit up being as you begin to integrate more love into your personal
embodiment, personal experience.
And you can let it flow outwardly in that way.
So would you agree with the idea that your shadow is simply the energy you're avoiding?
Because essentially anything behind the source is in shadow.
And if all the energy, because here's the reality.
When I do something that disrupts my life, that's an experience that creates some kind
of conscious chemical reaction in my body that I want to avoid.
You can feel it almost right.
It's visceral.
Wouldn't you say, John, at the base level, it's simply fear.
Okay, because fear produces a chemical charge in your body.
And what we want to do, I was thinking about this last night, we want to take that experience
and we want to say, okay, I don't want to feel that chemical charge again.
But so what we do is we take it out and we put it on the shelf.
And then we leave it there and life somehow stumbles to it because it needs to get out.
That's a limiting factor now in our life.
It's where we're not willing to go.
It never stops trying to have the conversation with you.
It always shows up as if you're committed to ignoring it within yourself, you're going
to see it in your external world a lot more.
Right.
Until eventually you can't run any further.
Fatigue catches up with you or satisfaction finds you and you sit still long enough that
that conversation shows up again because it always does.
And eventually, yeah, as you begin to face it within yourself and kind of peel back those
protective layers that the ego creates around those things and just let go of fear enough
to settle into it and realize there's nothing to be afraid of because that potential, that
capacity that you knew is there that you were worried might come out and make you be somebody
you don't want to be.
As you let go of your fear and step into those energies, you realize those energies are not
you.
You won't become worse.
You actually step more into your ability, your capacity to love, to be loved by giving
those energies a little bit of love and attention and not running from them, not treating them
like they are something to be rejected and ignored and neglected or casting shame out
on them in advance.
Right.
Well, I think that's the work is or so what I've studied redemption a lot, like what happens
in that moment when you convert and alchemize the negative energy, you convert it into something
that becomes a lesson or value.
And I think that's the moment when we realize we can emotionally handle the experience because
we never remove the experience from our life.
So what changes?
It's the conversion of the energy of it to say, oh, I can emotionally handle this experience.
Yeah.
Can I add to that?
Because I'm thinking specifically of Star Wars, for instance, and Luke, right?
So he's about to face the emperor and what he has, he's obviously gone down his journey
as well, right?
He on Dagobah, he goes down into the pit and he sees that Vader who he attacks, right?
So he's going through these dark demons, if you would, of his own life.
Now he's there on the return of the Jedi, right?
And he has the ability to relax and tap into the good side of the source or he can draw
that lightsaber and strike the emperor down.
And then of course we see the battle ensue and going back and forth, you can see what
he actually does as he taps into that dark side as he attacks his father, as he attacks
Darth Vader again and again and again.
And then I think somehow it comes back again and that's when the emperor gets pissed because
he didn't hold back.
So what I'm trying to understand here is, is it a dualistic thing, Cleburne, where you're
always having this in the background and it's something that's part of your nature and you're
keeping it in balance and you're giving light to it and you're affirming it, but you're keeping
it at bay?
Or is it something that it would be good to get rid of completely?
Again, we talked jokingly about what Nietzsche said and he goes, beware of the demons you
exercise.
They might be the best part of you.
Right?
And Young is the man behind the shadow work.
So help me flush out which of these doors we go, we open up.
That analogy is actually so cool.
The Luke Skywalker.
Yeah.
So as he went, which is symbolic, this shows up in a lot of movies actually, like now that
I look back, but yeah, that little journey he went on into his own shadow realm, into
exploring his deepest fear.
His deepest fear is knowing that he might become just like his father.
He might become the bad guy, right?
Because that's part of it.
He comes from his father and that he doesn't want to be that.
Now how does he prevent becoming that?
He doesn't kill his father.
He loves him enough to say, I'm not going to, not only am I not going to be like you,
but I'm not going to end you and then not be like you.
Right?
Like he's like, it just stops here.
It stops here.
And he loved his dad enough to not proceed any further in that energy.
There is no more fighting between me and you father.
I just love you.
And that's it.
That is where it stops.
And then what did that do to his father?
It gave him the permission to let go of the guilt and shame he'd been carrying.
And that is 100% the nature of shadow work.
As you look inside yourself, the things you look at that you used to be afraid you might
become once you let go of the fear of those possibilities and just simply show them actual
love, not like, not like a dismissive attempt to say, I'm going to send you love, but like
you actually embrace the fact that like you can't hurt me.
I'm aware that that was a potential, but here's where it stops.
We're just going to have love here.
And then that energy begins to change.
And once you do that enough in yourself, you can then do that in the world, in the collective
to other individuals you interact with.
You can actually see what it is.
You can actually see the demon, the energy, the unspoken thing deep down within them.
And whether directly or indirectly, you can touch that energy with your energy and it
goes away.
Well, I think that's the hard part about doing shadow work is you're coming to terms with
there's both the yin and the yang inside of you, the dark and the light.
And it's not removing the dark.
It's coming to terms with it.
It's integrating.
Yes.
So, and I want to, since we like to, you know, we all kind of come from a, a biblical framework
so we can use that lens, but right up front in the, in the Bible, the, the Adam and Eve
story, you know, the serpent did not lie.
He said, God didn't say you'll die or he knows you won't die just on the day you eat of it.
You'll be like him knowing good and evil.
And then after that happens and God dishes out the, the adjustment to the paradigm, then
God says, this is the Lord God said, now the man has become as one of us, plural, but the
man has become as one of us to know good and evil.
So this was part of the, the development of our consciousness.
We had to know good and evil, not just have the option to pick one or the other.
We needed to know it to become as God.
And then the process of from there having full grasp of both and choosing to reintegrate
and move ourselves back into the Garden of Eden state of being has always been an available
option for any of us.
We could do that at any time.
As soon as we work our way back into it, but a lot of times we are stuck in this, you know,
that choice sounds good for a minute.
And then I see something that I also like is that, you know, we uphold the duality by
our own choice.
Well, I think that's what most theologians try to do though is, or people understanding
God because ultimately the value of theology or the value of even any kind of theological
discussion is to understand.
I am because if we come to terms that I am the, I am like, I'm not Jonathan.
That's a construct that was created in this lifetime, but beyond that is the, I am of
me.
And so when we talk about theology, we're trying to understand what is that?
I am.
And that's why Jesus has always been valuable for me because the, I am's response was pure
love and that love allowed you to integrate both the good and the evil, both the good
and the evil, the parts that you love about yourself and the part you don't because how
do you reconcile all that?
That's grace.
Grace is the unification of the good and the evil into what we call the unified field.
Okay.
They're both there and you're both okay.
If you experience either side, right.
And that's when we transmute all the negative energy to lessons.
They become lessons to say, okay, you want to do this.
It's going to produce this.
You can do that, but guess what?
It sucks.
As Paul said, all things are lawful.
You can do anything in grace, but not everything is profitable.
So when you do something that creates shame, guess what?
That's your body telling you it's not a good thing to do.
It's not morally wrong.
God's not going to kick you out, but it's a constant.
God's algorithm that's in place that has like, like what you sow, you reap, what's your,
what's your actions do?
There will be an aligned consequence.
And it's almost in that regard.
If you take the emotional aspect out of it, it's mathematically perfect and consistent.
It does not miss.
So just start changing the variables in the equation would be a one way to look at it.
But yeah, a hundred percent.
Everything you're, you're saying, like not so much getting so caught up on how good or
bad it is just accepting that it's all part of the same on the same line, I suppose.
Yeah.
I'm rich knows this cause this is how rich and I met.
I've been studying the garden of Eden for probably the last 20 years.
And I think, cause it's the original problem.
It's not just the original sin as historians like to call it.
It's the original problem.
What created this disruption in humanity?
And it comes up with this really unique idea that says there was this choice, the dichotomy,
the first actually, I think it's the second dichotomy.
The first dichotomy is the split between man and woman.
But this choice of, are you good or evil?
Cause it's a question.
It's a tree.
It's asking a question.
Are you good or evil?
And if we choose evil, we get it wrong.
We choose good, which is inclusive of evil.
We get it right.
Cause that's grace.
We're trying to come to a place in term in life where we understand what does it mean
to be I am in a human body and that's why the integration of shadow work is when we
transform and transmute, I love that's the way Sean Clayton put it.
You transmuted and alchemize it into lessons that teach you something about life.
Cause going back to the star Wars analogy is if you look, what was it?
The last Jedi, the one where Mark Hamill came back like his wisdom.
He was not affected.
Yeah.
He's not affected by the same passions.
He's worked through and experienced everything and his wisdom is in knowing, okay, I know
how to handle this.
I know how to deal with these things.
And I think that's the value of shadow where people always look at shadow work.
Oh, I'm afraid of it.
But the value of it is so incredible to transform your life because you no longer have to deal
with all that shit.
What was the value of shadow work in your life?
Cleaver?
Uh, it was, it was exactly that.
So it was being able to energetically spend time in spaces of my own capacity that I had
regretted or had shame around or had worry about.
And then also step energetically into look through the lens of people or circumstances
in the world and history, like really look through that person's perspective and take
ownership as though it were me doing these things that I had previously cast judgment
on or labeled in a negative way.
And then by doing that, I realized I was, I was in effect carrying a collective weight
of things that I don't want to align with or participate in.
But by, by the way I was judging it, I was carrying the weight of it within myself.
So stepping into it and trying to really understand what forgiveness, like why that's such an
important key, right?
Like what, what even is love?
What even is forgiveness?
Why is that so crucial?
And how turning it inward.
And then that also sort of ties into the connection we all, we all share the collective energy,
the collective consciousness, and some of the quantum stuff we spoke about last time.
But that is the biggest thing is realizing where the energetic connection is between
me and other people and breaking down that lie, that illusion that we like to convince
ourselves that I'm this one and only being in the universe.
I'm just me and everybody else outside of me is either what I am choosing to call good
or bad based on this framework that I have in my mind of what that means.
And that is an extremely egotistical standpoint.
That's a very limited viewpoint that is super prevalent in most churches these days, right?
If everybody would do it the way I think, the world would be better.
That's a hundred percent as far away from what Jesus was trying to say as you can get.
So pausing me, considering what's in me I haven't considered, and considering what's
in other people and how that is also part of me and how I am part of that and reconciling
with that.
That was how I experienced shadow work you could say.
Yeah.
Hey, Jonathan, I wanted to go back to your point in the garden and you mentioned it was
the first dichotomy where it was the separation, the knowledge and the tree.
But then you said, no, actually the first dichotomy was man versus woman.
In my mind, that is a good dichotomy.
I don't know if God's purpose in creating woman for man was a microcosm of the Trinity.
It is.
It's a good dichotomy.
It's the human experience.
So Eve came out of the heart.
And so the separation is between the mind and the heart.
So Adam represents the mind, Eve represents the heart.
And through that experience, because what was his problem?
He couldn't find anything satisfying.
So he was given the heart and that's the first disruption.
It's the first dichotomy between two independent ideas and now they're split.
And so that was the first disruption to me.
And that's what I think God means.
That's what I think God means.
Or I don't know who said it.
I think it was Paul or I remember it was or maybe it was in Genesis.
Sorry.
That the two shall become one.
Yes.
True shadow work is integrating the heart and the mind back together.
Like men avoid the heart and the women avoid the mind.
Yes.
And that's the separation.
And the birth of this new age is definitely feminine.
And so what's arising is we've been masculine for 6,000 years or really since the birth
of the church.
And the integration of the feminine is that first, the reparation of that first problem.
Because I think Jesus solved the tree of knowledge.
Love overcame what happened in the garden between the serpent.
So that problem has been solved for 2,000 years.
But what was the first problem?
The first problem was the separation of the man and the woman and such the, that is beginning
to merge back together.
The head masculine energy and the heart, the feminine energy are now coming back together
to form the age of Aquarius.
Because we've said it's not a strict shift from masculine to feminine.
It's a shift from masculine to wholeness, which is both.
Yes.
Well, and I guess that's, I mean, it's so funny because in terms of where we want to
be, we want to be in that unified field where there is no duality.
There is unified field.
Yes.
Coherence is the unified field.
Yes.
So by integrating the shadow to our light, that becomes the unified field.
But that's why I was so confused because I thought, you know, in the book of Genesis,
it was a good thing that God created a female to help, right?
Yes, absolutely.
That was balanced and helped, but it's still a dichotomy.
It's still a duality.
I don't want to live by myself.
I'm one with myself, right?
But I think it's better to have another.
And what I'm actually doing by having a spouse or somebody else is I'm having somebody to
compliment me.
And in many ways, if it's so ironic about me and my wife is like, I can't see far away.
My wife can't see a menu in front of her.
We're like, there's going to be this old couple where she's telling me where to get off on
the off ramp and I'm telling her what to order on the food.
And it's like this amazing blend.
But the question or this, it's a compliment as opposed to becoming, are we becoming one?
I mean, and I guess what I'm going to go.
No, you're actually.
I because this is what I've been thinking about, like over the last two months is this
first dichotomy.
And what is happening is you're attracted to your partner so that they can reveal your
negative feedback because your partner is going to be the one that's going to show you
the most feedback because you're in a trusted, committed relationship to say, OK, when I
fuck up, you're not going to leave me.
That's when marriage matters.
And so you're attracted to the person who's opposite you that will refract back to you
your worst problems.
That's the problem with marriage is when you create that relationship.
But the goal isn't codependency where we're both complementing each other and solving
each other's problems.
The goal is unification of each person.
So your wife becoming whole in and of herself and you becoming whole in and of yourself.
That is the first unification.
That is the first dichotomy being corrected because the woman is not meant to be subject
to the man and the man is not meant to be subject to the woman.
They're both meant to be whole in and of themselves.
But what happens is that we spend all of our time trying to create a codependent relationship.
It's one of the most valuable things I've ever learned about my partner is that it's
very easy for me to become codependent on her because I want her to solve my problems
and she can't.
I want her to but she can't.
When I rely on her, that's when things just get fucked up really bad.
When I then see my partner as someone who refracts back to me the part that I need to
integrate my shadow side, then she becomes very valuable.
If I'm open to that, I can restore it within myself.
Does that make sense?
Oh my gosh.
This has been great stuff.
This conversation is only two months old for me.
I started thinking about that.
So Cleveland, I wrote a book on the Garden of Eden and what happened.
I've been in this question for 20 years of the Garden of Eden, but it's only the last
couple of months harnessed with this idea of the age of Aquarius that, wait a minute,
there was a first dichotomy because it started with the two shall become one.
That's when I got it.
He's not talking about marriage.
He's talking about the two halves coming back into one as a whole human being.
Have you guys ever heard that quote that the one became the many to experience the joy
of becoming the one again?
Yes.
That is the whole thing.
First of all, accepting your partner as a mirror instead of realizing that what you're
seeing and thinking it's her but accepting that she's a mirror and you're like, oh shit,
the thing that's aggravating me or that I don't like, that's actually me and she's
here to show that to me and be present while I have this.
The way you mentioned though a couple of times, problems to be solved, that is very much a
framework of how my mind works.
And lately I've been stepping out of that and understanding that you can't understand,
you can't rationalize your way through this.
We want to.
We want to let the dots connect.
It's spot on that it feels like the feminine energy in everybody is rising.
It doesn't mean like it's going to be a woman, a matriarchy, right?
There's not a pendulum swing of power.
There is a unification that's happening within the individuals and amongst the collective.
But a more feminine energy heading into this new age is rather than looking at it as problems
to solve, it's more like a dance to be enjoyed.
That's how the feminine energy works.
The brain is thinking a problem to solve.
So this happened, this created this rift.
What's the atonement?
What's the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And we've been doing that for a long time and that doesn't vibe as well.
There's a measure of that that is required, but also allowing it to just be a fun process
because again, like the divine creator of all doesn't make mistakes, right?
Even though right before the flood, it says God regretted making man like this little
human experiment isn't going the way I thought, right?
That's all of us at some point catch ourselves and we're like, okay, I need to make an adjustment.
So on each level, there are equalities, like similarities from the cells dividing to the
stars, exploding all that stuff like the universe and the brain looks the same.
So in that regard, God doesn't make mistakes.
We each of us, the sons and daughters experiencing separateness, moving back into union.
And then again, that's where I've been feeling lately.
Rather than looking at all this, it's some work to do, some problem to solve and that
just feels so heavy, right?
It's exhausting, but rather just embracing the fact that you know what?
Somehow, it's a cheesy thing when they say you've survived all your worst days.
But when I really think about that, I'm like, okay, I actually did.
I have survived my worst days and although I have felt alone or whatever or disadvantaged
in some ways, somehow here I am and somehow whatever I needed has always showed up.
And I wonder how much of what I needed was to get to a point where I stopped needing
to experience feeling miserable in the experience and just learned that I'm in a dance and maybe
every now and then I'm not great at it and I step on my partner's toes or they step on
mine and sometimes the rhythm is a little wonky.
But the music is playing, right?
Like the cosmos are singing to us.
There's an orchestra that's so magnificent and we're on the dance floor and learning
to feel that way about it lets it be more fun.
And it would take me 40 years to get to a point where I could not feel emasculated to
embrace the fact that it's okay to have fun with this experience.
It doesn't have to be this thing that's here for me to work my way through.
I'm not supposed to be a martyr or an emotional slave or any of that stuff.
We can just embrace the process.
I'm not sure how, you said two months ago recently, so that might be in your relationship
where that sort of shift may be happening.
Oh, absolutely.
Because here's the reality.
Every time I want my wife to solve my problems, I get frustrated at myself because she can't
solve them.
So why am I projecting, you talked about shadow work is when we project our problems onto
people and what I realized-
You can't solve it so you want to blame someone else for not solving it.
No, no, no.
Here's what I think we do.
I don't think we do it intentionally out of harm.
I think we project it because we don't know how to solve it.
So we project it onto someone and go, please solve it for me.
And we can do that with bad intentions going, I don't know how to solve this.
But at some point we're looking for someone else to solve it so they can help us understand
to solve it.
Yeah.
He who looks outside dreams, he who looks inside awakens.
But because it comes with a projection, it's like, that's not my responsibility.
And so what I realized is that I keep becoming codependent on my wife to want to solve my
problems and that doesn't work.
I think she can help you work through those problems.
I think that's where it gets good.
That's why it's called a dance.
Even Richard Rohr refers to, he's got a book called The Divine Dance.
It's about the Trinity and about how that community of love is better than one God only.
And that's why it's very hard to absorb what the Trinity is.
But there's some great ways of describing it.
And I think it is a dance between the Father, Son, and the Spirit.
So I think that's where I'm realizing with her is that what she's teaching me is that
masculine energy is all about responsibility and feminine energy is all about compassion.
And in grace, we need both.
Compassion works best first because it says, okay, I accept you in the middle of this failure.
And then responsibility says, okay, but now it's time to step out of that, like step out
of the hole.
You don't need to live in the hole anymore.
Because what a lot of people do when they have shadow work is they put themselves in
a pit.
Like, I'm not worthy.
So the shadow they're avoiding, when people stay there, the shadow they're avoiding is
the shadow of stepping up, being their own leader within themselves.
They're avoiding, they feel like that's something they can't do or something that's too hard
or that's beyond them.
So they embrace victimhood or lack or doubt and project outwardly.
You see this where they, you know, that's why we have icons like certain people that
are considered leaders and then everybody can have a good or bad opinion about them.
Right?
Because everybody at some point is wrestling with their own inner leader and they project
out who they prefer or don't prefer out on someone else.
But 100% it's like just avoiding what you feel like is the work because it feels too
heavy.
It's already overwhelming, right?
Like being a man, especially up until very recently, there's a lot of expectations that
people don't, you know, maybe not wrap their head around, but it's exhausting.
And then the thought of having to do all this extra work that's not in your wheelhouse,
right?
Like I'm all of my life, I've been a man.
I've been told to think, be practical, be all these things.
And now I've got to work on my emotions.
That's what I've been trained not to do since as far as I can remember.
That's too much.
I can't do it.
So that's the shadow I think that gets avoided when people are stuck in the rut.
They're stuck in their comfort zone of avoiding the shadow of leadership.
So I want to shift gears a little bit because I want to make sure we get to these other
topics because shadow I could talk about for six hours and I don't want to do that on this
episode.
You mentioned in the last episode, I think it was in the first 10 minutes when we were
not recording about Jesus and the Magi.
Can you set up that story and then what is your take?
Because this was where we were going with, what is your take on Jesus going east?
Right.
So the story of the Magi, which is the origin of the word where we get our word magic from
the Magi, right?
They were astrologers and practicing magicians, the Zoroastrian priests that Zoroaster was
the same story as Christ that like timeline for timeline, but it's thousands of years
older.
So his story and his priesthood, which impacted Pythagoras and Greek philosophy and all this
stuff, it has impacted the entire world, but it's in our Western world.
It's not a name or a subject we talk about, but to Iranians and stuff like that and the
Persian part of the world, it's still pretty well known.
But the fact that that story is historically verifiable and documented and made an appearance
in the Bible at such a crucial point, at such a handoff point could not be to indicate that
there's a conflict between these two ideas, these two groups and these two stories, right?
If there was a conflict in all these centuries of somebody combing through the works of the
Bible would have thought to omit that so that they could prop it up as the one and only
right thing.
It is subtle for the people who want to dig into it that there is a nod that connects
Jesus to the previous Christ of that age and in that part of the world because each age
and each part of the world had their own storyline that connects the same.
So the Magi, those guys coming, knowing the stars so well, the astrology and knowing that
they were observant and spotted a star that indicated the birth of the new Christ, the
King of the Jews, it says in the Bible.
So they went.
A lot of people, you could estimate that Jesus was somewhere around one years old by the
time they show up.
It was a bit of a long trip, but we know he was at least somewhere under two because when
they came into the land and they had to talk to King Herod and he's like, what are you
guys doing here?
And they said, now this is another key that they were important people, right?
They didn't just, I mean, they're talking to the King of the land to get his permission
to come into the place and visit and bring gifts and stuff.
So they were in an entourage.
They said, we've come to give praise to the King of the Jews.
Obviously he doesn't like that.
So he put out a hit on all young males in the land that were under two years old.
So baby Jesus was somewhere between birth and two years by their estimation.
So they go visit with mom and dad, they bring gifts.
In my belief, and now I've spoken with other people that are strong channels, people are
writing books on this, that there's a lot of documentation that also falls in line with
this, that they let mom and dad know that when baby Jesus got a little bit bigger, they
wanted to take him right then when he was a child.
But if they had started his training in a different land, he wouldn't have had his
roots firmly enough in that space where he was supposed to go spread his message.
He wouldn't have come back to technically modern day Palestine, but to Bethlehem and
Jerusalem and Galilee and all that stuff.
So anyways, right after they visit the parents and leave right in the Bible, the next, the
very next verse is the flight to Egypt.
That's where the archangel says, Hey, get up and leave right now.
They leave in the middle of the night and they go raise Jesus in Egypt until King Herod
dies and it's safe to go back to their homeland.
And then the next time we see Jesus, he's 12 years old, mom and dad lose him for a day.
And then it ends up being three days by the time they make their way back and find him
in a temple.
He's speaking to the elders.
They're astonished with the wisdom and power with which he's speaking.
So he was raised in Egypt, stands to reason that because in most places in the world,
other than America, and especially at that time, cultures were aware of each other's
teachings and traditions and languages and stuff like that.
So he probably had a firm grasp on what the theology of the time was in Egypt and their
education system.
He was speaking in a temple, which is a big problem I have with churches these days.
They are their performance based tax exempt businesses.
They're not a temple of worship the way they used to be a temple of Q and A type of situations
where a 12 year old could get up and speak powerfully.
But he did that.
Mom came and saw him.
She said, we're worried sick.
What are you doing?
And he's like, what are you doing worrying about me?
I'm here about my father's business.
And she said, not yet, buddy.
So the next thing it says, he went down and was subject to them.
And then we don't hear from him again for a while.
So those missing years, a lot of people speculate about this.
But if you look into it, there's all kinds of, if you need to see with your eyes, documents
that line up very clearly and sitting with it spiritually, it brings true to me that
at that time when it was evident, he was ready to get like hit that next level of his education.
He went east.
There are historical documents in other parts of the world that when Jesus was there teaching
and studying, records were kept and have been handed down for the couple of thousand years
since then.
But the Magi were who took him under their wing to continue giving him a formal education
and empowering him for not only who he is and what he was built to do, but for the work,
the message he was supposed to go back and share and get him fully into his gifts, but
also be supported while he was at a formidable age.
Because there are plenty of points that we talked about before in the Bible where it
indicates Jesus did feel the feelings of a man.
He did feel doubt or fear or worry or frustration.
So imagine a 13 year old with his hormones and his emotions and his feelings, if he wasn't
in a space that was actively looking out for his growth and his development during this
time, we all get the support we need to learn the lessons we're supposed to learn.
So that was his.
Rich, you want to respond?
Yeah, I was going to say the polemicist in me or just maybe the devil's advocate would
say wouldn't he just have tapped into the Holy Spirit, right?
Jesus was fully God, fully man, and he was able to do amazing things.
And that's because of the communion with the Father and with the Holy Spirit.
Is that not a strong enough construct in terms of why he was able to do the things he was
able to do and be that amazing person?
Have I got a good one for you.
So John 1 to 27, the anointing you received from Christ lives in you.
You don't need anyone to teach you something else.
Instead, Christ's anointing teaches you about everything.
His anointing is true and contains no lie.
So live in Christ as he taught you to do.
Now Christ's anointing, why do we anoint with oil right there?
Now this is also sort of that seems awfully close to Eastern practices, right?
Why is it oil?
Have you guys heard about the Christ oil that secretes from inside your, your, your, your
claustrum near your pineal gland?
So every month when yours, when the moon is in your sun cycle.
So for me, that's when the moon is in Libra.
That's about a three day period.
So I usually start two days before and go two days after, but your brain secretes an
oil, the Christ oil.
And this is a true story.
So I want to hear about this.
Yeah, this one, this one's big.
If you guys haven't heard this, so the anointing of the Christ, the oil anointed with oil,
your brain right near the pineal gland has a, has an Oregon called a claustrum, Santa
Claus, the Christ.
It secretes the Christ oil and it makes its way down your spine.
There's 33 vertebrae in your spine.
Christ lived 33 years and all stories at the cosmic, at the cellular, through all ages,
the stories, there's layers of equality and separation all happening at once.
The Christ oil makes its way through your brain, through your chakras, through your
heart center, be being activated, moving through your spinal column down through your three
vertebrae into your sacrum, into your sacrum.
And then makes its way back up.
Now if you can hold your sexual essence during this time, not having any form of sexual release
during this time, not engaging mentally in lustful thoughts, but just hold your energy.
This is important.
Energy is hugely important and our sexual energy is massively spiritually significant,
right?
And all levels, we could get into that a whole other thing too, but your sexual energy, prioritizing
it and treating it as holy, not because it's like right or wrong to have it, but because
God lives in me.
And right now the Christ is doing a work to give me the knowledge of all.
It is empowering my brain to fire extra neurons to begin getting information so that I don't
need anybody to teach me.
But somebody somewhere along the line had to create this information that I could stumble
across.
This is super verifiable.
The Christ oil makes its way down.
Three days, this is a three day process.
Think about that.
How long was Christ dead for?
So the Christ oil goes down to the sacrum.
Some sort of chemical process happens during that time and as it comes back up through
your heart and into your brain, if you can not interrupt this process and let that oil
come back into your brain, into your skull, Christ was crucified on Galgotha and the King
James, your grandpa's version of the Bible, make sure to point out, meaning skull.
Okay.
Where did Jacob wrestle with God?
In Peniel.
He saw God eye to eye in Peniel.
So we're getting really into the esoteric stuff here, but that is a hundred percent
the anointing of Christ that teaches you about all things that you don't need another man
to teach you is harnessing the Christ within you.
Kingdom of God is within you.
Jesus said that.
Letting that oil do its work, prioritizing it, letting it kind of go down to hell, like
go down to the root.
Like the, if you, if you look at it from a chakra standpoint, what each chakra represents,
if you can let it go all the way down and come back up, purifying all your chakras all
the way up and open the crown chakra, then you, your, your brain receptors become literally
open to downloads from the, the collective database of which we are all evidently tapped
in if you look into that as well.
So Jonathan, um, Dr. Joe and Gaia has this actually, you can actually see it actually
talks about how this person, it's a lot of breath work too.
And I don't know if it's similar or not, but it shows them focusing and breathing up
and it comes in and it does that.
It seems a little bit different than a three day process, but it's absolutely incredible.
But also what the parallel is, is have you ever seen the tree of life in the Kabbalistic
framework where you've got the crown and you've got the root at the bottom and it all spreads
out.
It's a tree of life.
So we call this the sephiras, right?
And then it just, so you were, you were wearing that necklace the other day, I think.
Yeah, I just don't have it on yet.
Yes.
But the entire Kabbalistic tree of life goes through these processes where, um, each, each,
um, sephira, if you would, S E F I R A H A is, is that it has each of these particular
foundations.
And of course that's where your, um, unified field is up here at pure consciousness in
your crown.
But you do have to go down into the root and that's of course the tree of life.
This is, that's fascinating.
I think offline, I would love to, to spend a little more time with you digging in on
that because that's something absolutely worth exploring.
And well, because it's a practice.
Yes.
I didn't get into that.
It's like, that's one of the things that we look for on this show is what are those things
people can do that have proactive value?
Yeah.
The last time you asked that, I kind of wasn't sure how to answer.
So I mentioned, uh, fasting, I guess, but, uh, it would be cool to have a chat where
we just go through like literal things you can do, like harnessing the Christ oil, fasting,
different ways to, to pray or meditate or grounding, like all of that actual practical
things to do, cause for sure to neglect the physical, to neglect the doing in the reality.
Um, if all is connected, you can't pick and choose which parts of the whole of, of God's
creation that you want to decide are irrelevant or less important.
Like all things can be your teacher, even though no thing must be your teacher is what
I believe in all ways you can find yourself, find your way to God.
But there's no one thing that's a must because if there was any one thing that was a must,
it would exclude so many people in the world throughout history who didn't have access
to that one particular channel.
Um, that's, that's what I have.
Well, I think that's one of the reasons why I think there's a lot of validity, like regardless
of the evidence, there's a lot of validity that Jesus fundamentally changed even his
own society, the historical Hebrew faith, because what he presented looked a lot like
a blend of the two.
Yeah.
I mean, like that's like, you can't ignore that reality that it's a new Testament when
people say that's new agey.
Well bro, like we are in the new age, right?
Like that they literally, your, your great grandparents agreed things stopped here and
became different at this point.
And they literally created a new Testament where his preaching was, was literally love,
right?
Like it's no more go kill a ram for, for your atonement or, you know what I mean?
There was no more eye for an eye, no more of that, like, like lost rationalization process.
It was simply an embodiment of, of love and union and acceptance that there's really not
the separation between each of us as we think and what you do for the least of these you
do for me love, love your neighbors.
You love yourself.
That whole theme do unto others as you'd have them do to you.
It doesn't just sound like something you tell a kindergartener to help them learn how to
behave on the playground.
It becomes like so completely, profoundly true.
When realizing that we're not separated, we're experiencing each other for the sake of having
an experience through the, the, the trick of separation, but we're all here connected,
creating the experience together.
It starts to get tricky to explain.
No, this is actually worthwhile.
I mean, this, this continues.
I mean, you need to drop off Cleaver.
I have a, I have another call to be on at 12, so in five minutes, five minutes.
Okay.
So we don't get into the CIA.
Why don't we just get the CIA is awesome because it's like our literal government with a document
that you can pull from CIA.gov.
You can go on the CIA's website and pull a document of them in 1983 studying how to astral
project and how to literally let your energy body, your light, your consciousness, time
travel to share and receive information and bring it back to the present.
It's a literal CIA document and in the document, it even says, okay, so in our findings, the
reality is more like a hologram than how we previously considered it.
And it lines up perfectly with each of the world's major philosophies and religions,
the cosmic egg theory, the principle of the Holy Trinity.
Like like they basically just said, okay, well, we have now proven that for thousands
of years, what the great sages of the time have tried to tell us was actually right.
So let's just go ahead and make this confidential.
Dumb dumbs, right?
Like, you know, why not just come out and be like, hey guys, guess what?
If you like the Upanishads, if you like the Holy Bible, if you like the Quran, go ahead
and actually read those things, but don't read them as they're like a checklist of to-do's
and don't-do's, but read it like it's actually like the most mystical document you can get
and read it in your language would have been anyways.
Yeah, that'll be so much fun to get in.
I've actually got it printed out and stuff like that.
We can get into that next time.
It'd be fun.
Can't wait.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, Cleaver, thanks for coming back, man.
And we'll do, I'm sure we'll do a few of these because it sounds like we just, we have these
wild conversations and I think they're very valuable because we're touching on things
that are very core to what we like on this podcast, which is what it means to be human.
I think everybody's wrestling with how do I do shadow work?
Everybody's wrestling with, okay, what does it mean to be even a human being?
I think Jesus is a good pointer, but everybody's coming from their own vein and our goal is
really just to help people understand that it is possible to work through all of these
things.
It is possible to have really good conversations that are not shameful or a guiltful that they're
holistic because they're starting from a framework of there is a good end game to all of this.
Like we don't practice love or practice I am because it's the right thing to do.
We do it because it produces a good life.
So that's what, that's why I love having these conversations with you because you've definitely
done that with us.
So thank you.
Yeah.
Beautiful guys.
Thank you for, thank you for the chat for letting me, let me listen to you guys and share
a bit.
Absolutely.
Rich, any final words?
I just say that the dance is ubiquitous.
I mean, I just feel like the energy and the conversations are just in flow with this and
I'm looking forward to more conversations and learning and growing and spending more
time with you, Peter.
And it's been, it's been fantastic.
Cool.
Thanks guys.
Absolutely.
All right.
Thank you everybody for listening.
This is Living in the Matrix podcast.
Please review, comment, and also let us know if you have a guest.
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Keep them coming and much love everybody.
Have a wonderful week.
And we'll see you next time.