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Welcome to Living in the Matrix. I'm Jonathan and I'm left of center.

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And I'm Rich and I tend to lean a little bit more to the right. But the bottom line is,

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is together we try to look for the balance of what it means to be human in today's world.

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So let's get started. Welcome everybody to Living in the Matrix. I'm Jonathan. Say hello, Rich.

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Hey everybody. This is Rich Goulet and this is our second podcast this week. So we're excited to be

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here for doing a do for the for the same week and if not one more on next Friday. Yeah, it's it's

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exciting. This podcast has grown substantially. Love the guest invites, love the comments. Please

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feel free to review us. We're also on YouTube. So if you want to watch the video and but today

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we have a guest, Klebern, who is someone I found on Instagram and I essentially look for people

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that I want to vibe with and this guy had like bright lights all over it because that he talked

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about. We live in a game which is essentially very close to the context of living in the matrix that

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we started with. So welcome Klebern. It's a pleasure to have you. Thank you guys for inviting me. I'm

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excited to pick each other's brains a little bit. Awesome. So unpack for me and our audience this

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idea that you communicated because it's very much central to what we have started with living in the

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matrix of we're living in a game. What did you mean by that? Well, the question I was asked was if

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if life is a game, how do you play it? That was sort of the theme of that podcast. The name of it

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was the the human game and how to play it by Nick Zai. But effectively I was trying to tie in a

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couple of concepts where theology and quantum physics meet and to try to make that simple to

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digest is not always easy because this can be a very broad concept. But the word matrix is

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popularized from the movie The Matrix. So we start immediately putting things in the framework of a

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game or a digital version of reality. But the word matrix first originated in the Bible.

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You guys may have even known this in the Old Testament. But the first place where

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our language has used the word matrix was in the Bible and the framework that that word used was

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to describe a womb. So you could look at it. Yeah, it was used. It was describing a womb

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and a baby coming out of it. What's the verse? What's the Hebrew for that? Is it like Hebrew?

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Are we talking about? I gotta grab my notes now to check this out. This is taking a minute. Please

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edit this part out. No, absolutely. Okay. Okay. Give me one second. I keep a bunch of notes

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because I can't in my mind catalog the verse, but I've got it. I just totally geeked out because

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that is something I have never heard and I love it. I just totally love it. God bless the Wachowski

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brothers. Even though we're still on off peak here. I mean, they brought in Christianity,

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Buddhism, all science and technology all in the matrix. There's so many different themes going on

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with Nebuchadnezzar and with Trinity. And so they were onto something for sure. What they remind me

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of is they remind me of the guy we had on lonely stoner, Andrew, that they call bullshit on a lot

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of stuff. Like they kind of ask, okay, what does the science teach us? And that's why,

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you know, it's like our narrow frames wants to stay in these narrow channels. Go ahead,

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Cleo. The reason we want to stay in these narrow channels, I mean, we do, right? Like the nature

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of all of reality that exists beyond our five human senses, right? Like a lot of people still

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think they are their bodies. So it's awfully taxing to start getting your mind around the

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fact that there's a whole big reality that is scientifically verifiably there beyond the light

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and sound wavelength frequencies that our eyes pick up. There's a lot happening. So us as humans

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at this time are kind of getting a greater capacity of being able to be aware of, comfortable with,

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and interact with the rest of that reality. The people in the past who were able to do this could

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do miracles and things like that. So it was shocking for everybody else around. But the word

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matrix first appeared in Numbers 18, 15, everything that opened the matrix in all flesh, which they

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bring into the Lord, whether it be men or beasts shall be thine. Oh, wow. So one, a biblical way

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to look at what that might have meant is that this human experience, this entire human history of

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consciousness evolution is a womb of cells forming together to birth something new.

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That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it in the modern times in a digital reference

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and a parable that makes sense in our digital age. So the world being a game, this is sort of also

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where theology and quantum physics need to shake hands and find the agreement that people thousands

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of years ago just didn't have the language to describe the way we can now. But when you are

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able to zoom into an atom close enough, you start to see a couple of electrons, but mostly empty

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space, right? 99.999% empty space. It's five or seven nines. It's huge. It's huge. And then when

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you think about the universe, right? Every now and then there's a star or a planet, but it's a lot of

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empty space. So an atom and the universe and the cells in our bodies, and you start connecting the

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dots where there's a lot of things that are the same folding in on themselves and repetitive in

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that sort of nature. So the fact that our reality is here, it obeys certain rules, but it's also,

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there's nothing connecting everything, right? There's just a lot of empty space in our bodies,

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in our material world, but also everything is connected where quantum theory, quantum

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entanglement talks about how if I say something here, the vibrations of my word will affect

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a star on the opposite end of the universe in real time. So things like that, when you look at

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things like the double slit experiment, which documents that particles not observed do not

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behave the way they do when they are observed. So reality depends on our consciousness participating

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in its manifestation. So to that degree, wrapping your head around reality as a game

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is moving in the right direction. But where we are needing to get collectively is that it is a game

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that all of our individual consciousnesses are co-creating with the divine. And the reason there's

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so much chaos in the world is because most people aren't even aware that their consciousness is

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creating reality. So their attention is just all over the place. So the more people can combine

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their attention onto a thing, the faster and more evident it shows up. That's sort of why the Christ

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said, where two or more gathered in my name, there I am too. If several people were to sit

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in a Christ consciousness state of mind, or at least a common goal, especially a goal that is

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of love or for love, those things will start to show up much, much faster. Wow. I'd love to flesh

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that out a little bit more because you also talked in another podcast about the Magi coming and

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visiting Christ and very likely when he was in his early stages, might've done some training.

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So first, I want to talk about a little bit about your theology and what that looks like.

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On this podcast, we've had a lot of people, people moving from Mormonism to atheism and or

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nihilism in between and settling with there. There's a lot of people on this podcast who

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believe that we are God. God and Jesus wants us to be him, not just in terms of the fullness you

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might see in the book of Ephesians or be like him or like a mini Christ, but rather that we have

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the same nature that Christ has that we can be God. So there's a lot of that going back and forth.

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What's your view on and what kind of theology are you most leaning towards? And then let's

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pivot that and go into that second part about that little story about Jesus and where he might have

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done some training in that view you had on an earlier interview. Okay. So to start off first,

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this would be to whoever hears this, a lot of people, especially when they're earlier

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in their theological development or they're just starting to feel comfortable asking questions

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that sort of test the framework that they've been raised in everything that isn't what you've

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originally heard. You almost want to say blasphemy and shut it down, right? So to whoever's hearing

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this or not, or however somebody may take this, I would say that Jesus, Yeshua, Isis, however,

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whichever language you would pronounce the name of that man that lived was the Christ. And he is

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the one who at this time, while I'm alive and the information I had, he is the Christ, my savior,

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who was the beacon, which is the world's beacon. There's a reason why our calendar says it's the

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year 2023. And if you go backwards, he wasn't born at year zero, right? Like we started our calendar

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a certain way and from where he was, it either goes up into the future or it goes up into the past.

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But this is where we start. And from here, truth is revealed if you just press in long enough.

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So Jesus Christ, Yeshua, Isis, however people want to say that name, Yahweh, whichever name,

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but everybody's got an idea that there was this guy. And that is my guy. That is my

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guide, my savior, who I have followed as far as religious or spiritual pursuits. And anytime I

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get new information, that's where I go back to check. To make sure I'm not like wandering off

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into a full delusion up to a certain point. And then you start being invited into spiritual

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communion, into contact, if you will, or whatever, spiritual communion with information outside of

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other folks. Got it. Yeah. So let me ask a quick question then, Rich. I want you to ask that tangent

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question because I thought, or the middle ground, because I actually read about that today and I

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wanted to dive in if you didn't. But what is your view of, I think back to Rich's first question,

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of God? Is God a separate entity or is God part of your entity?

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To understand how to frame that, first you need to know who are you? Who am I? Am I this set of eyes

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and this physical body and these seven trillion cells that make up my flesh and blood and bones?

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Am I the voice in my head? Am I the one listening to the voice in my head? Am I all of those things,

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which are also separate things, but they're all working in unison? So this is why the Trinity

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confuses people and people who don't have the patience to sit and try to wrap their head around

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a difficult concept will immediately dismiss it and say, well, you can't be God and the Holy Spirit

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and a dude all at one time. You know what I mean? But you already are. But you already are. You are

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the consciousness in this that's also outdoing things and we are bringing things from outside of

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us into our consciousness, into our awareness, and we turn it into reality all the time. We just,

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some stuff, we don't chalk it up as to how miraculous it is. But right now we're talking

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to each other from three different total locations sharing video and sound. And you know what I mean?

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If this was 500 years ago and somebody saw this, it would blow their mind. They would think it was

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either witchcraft or a miracle or whatever. So what looks like a miracle is just based on how

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comfortable you are with the technology that's being presented in that moment. And what God is,

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is he a separate entity or is he one of us? It's both. To be at the God level, the all level of

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consciousness is to understand and be fully looking through the eyes, eyes of every single

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piece of creation that can exist or that can be imagined. But also as the aspect of God looking

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through my eyes, like I have to perceive a separation between me and you and you in order

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for there to be any opportunity to have this refining experience, this consciousness evolution

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that's taking place. I just think that, you know, this is why we have these conversations,

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because it's brilliant, but also can be confusing. There's this one scene in Westworld, which is

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obviously a Michael Crichton original idea. My goodness, I think he could also actually

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project if you could look at some of his writings, but this guy who was, who was, it was just Jesse

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Pinkman in Breaking Bad. I forgot his name, but he goes, am I me? Because a lot of these people

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had been re-downloaded into their brain, right? So they had a new skin and they had their

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consciousness there, but they still didn't even know what was up. So going back to where you are,

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what's interesting is if you can appreciate the awe of the world and look at it with pure observation

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in my mind, and you could have that pure joy of just being, of ontology, I could see where

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you could be in that same level playing field with God and be co-union with that consciousness,

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right? In the terms of that consciousness, I think that what people in power want to have,

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and people who are maybe still maturing on a journey like myself, I still think that ontologically,

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I'm not God, that he is still transcendent, that he has the abilities, that least we've prescribed

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to him over the millennia of omniscience, of ubiquity, of, you know, a variety of other things,

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including foreknowledge, which I don't aspire to have or think I have, right? And so in that regard,

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I guess what I'm trying to get at is, are there places where you would agree that we are different

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from God if we're not the same with him on that level of consciousness you just described?

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Right. That's exactly what I am saying. So the essence of God, the spirit of God,

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that's referred to like when the Bible talks about how God poured man from clay,

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and then he breathed the breath of life into man, right? So we have a functioning clump of cells

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that can run on autopilot. But if I don't get another breath within the next two minutes,

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I'm done. So the first most important thing I need is that exchange that reminds me,

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which even though in Psalm 81, where God says, have I not said ye are gods, but you shall die

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like men. So we are the sons and daughters of the Most High. We are being trained and groomed into,

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you could call it ascension or higher power or becoming Christ-like. But we must be trained and

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we must be initiated, if you will, and refined because an uninitiated person cannot be trusted

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with the level of gifting and power that Jesus Christ had or demonstrated. The reason why is

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because if I woke up tomorrow and I thought, why don't I just see if I can walk on water?

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And I did it. What would I do with that ability? How would I use that to serve the collective?

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Or would I use it to serve my ego? Or you know what I mean? Or if I was anywhere off of the total

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highest vibration of love, the lower you go, the less you can be trusted with higher spiritual power.

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So this womb that we're in, this consciousness evolution that's taking place is refining all of

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us, which you could view each individual as a cell within the body of God that's serving a purpose.

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So another way to look at that is God above us 100%. At the level of all, at the level of God

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awareness, all is seen and it's outside of time. So time doesn't have the same concept, but when God

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is breathing life into you and experiencing the life of you, now that sort of gives it context

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because it's watching your experience in a slowed down pace, if you will. But just like you wouldn't

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ask, like if we could call it an organ, but even any cell in my body, like is my heart me? Am I more

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or am I less? Well, I can't live without it and it's going to keep doing its thing regardless of

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what my conscious is thinking to some degree. So that's sort of what I think. We are made by

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the creator. We are animated by the creator, but we are existing as co-creators because we're being

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born. We're being grown in the womb, in the matrix. So let me ask a clarifying question because this

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is the stuff Rich and I talk about on this podcast all along. So there's an idea of distance that

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historically, especially, did you grow up evangelical? I wouldn't know how to answer that.

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I grew up in a small Texas town in the 80s. So pre-internet small town Bible belt.

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Well, you can. Okay, so I get that framework. In that framework, there is God and then there is us

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and the two shall not meet. Grace enacts allowing the human being to come into that God world, but

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they're never together. They're never one. Where is your theology in terms of that separateness?

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Is it we are one or we are two distinctly different? Well, that's also like back to the

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question, was Jesus God or was he a man? Well, Jesus said, I am. Yeah. What did he say? What

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did he say he is? Can you say I am? I do say that is my, that's my, that's my bio, I guess,

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on my social media. Yeah. And that's the distinction that I always want to make is that

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the consciousness, the Christ consciousness is of I am that your soul is of God. Yeah. And there is

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no separation, none whatsoever, but the human body can create the appearance of a separation.

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Right. And that's sort of where I'm at. I'm at an increasing level of surrender into divine flow

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and trust that I am, I am here. I'm co-creating, I'm doing a work, but I, but it is not in any way,

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or in a, in a very decreasing way of what I, Cleburne thinks he wants or needs, because I,

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Cleburne cannot see the big picture and how every puzzle piece fits together. So what my,

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my prayer is, what my, my expansion is towards is how to be more in perfect alignment with,

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and this is where people could say, God, the father, all source that I am in alignment

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with the creator's will. So that as I surrender more fully into the story that I am here to,

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you know, help experience or to experience or to, to serve that it can flow through me without my

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ego and my will distorting what is to come through me. This is awesome. Yeah.

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Rich, this is really, so I've been thinking about this very question in terms, because Rich and I

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have been in this conversation for about a year now, about a year ago, I told him, I said, I am,

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I said, I don't believe there's a separation between me and God, because I am, I am, I am,

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I grew up with a historical framework that said I'm sinner. And the only way is back through grace.

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Yeah. There's never a perfect integration. It's always a separated integration.

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He is strong and right, right, right. So last year I made the distinction,

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because that's historically not what I grew up in. And I, and I told Rich last year, I says, I

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said, I am, and just go down that road and see what happens. And here I am a year later.

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And what I realized for me is that Jesus said, I am. Yeah. Like if we're using Jesus as the guidepost,

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yes, why don't we get to say, I am. Jesus controlled the weather. So if you can go out there and

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control the weather. I told him, I think historically, but let me add one addendum to this.

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What I realized is that I learned more about science and I learned about the amygdala and how

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the brain works is that I've created a functional AI version of myself that projects through my

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visuals to see exactly what I see in this visual image. And that's Jonathan, but that's not who I

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am. That's a stored memory of who I think I am. And I'm always going to get it wrong. And when I

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step away from that and let myself be, I am, it allows Jonathan separate weight. That's the material

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world, but it's not the whole of who I am. So it then becomes unlimited rather than limited.

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Yeah. The anything you say, I after I am anything you say after that, people say it's, it's casting

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a spell. It will be true. Well, almost anything you say after I am is a very limited ego expression

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of what we think we are. Right? Like just saying I am and leaving it at that is exactly I am, I am,

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I am, and then God will fill in the rest with what is supposed to happen. So I, and as far as Jesus

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changing the weather, I kind of want to point out two things on that one, the pretty much the only

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times he ever really got frustrated. The main times he got frustrated, right? Like he was fine

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sleeping during a storm, but he was on a boat sleeping. The storm wasn't the problem at all.

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He didn't even bother to turn it off for himself. He got annoyed because his friends woke him up

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because they were freaking out and he's like, Oh guys, I'm right here. Obviously nothing's going

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to happen. Right. But maybe that storm was part of like what needed to happen for the crops and the

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ecology and the, you know what I mean? And the ecosystem right there, like who, like if,

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if a hurricane was coming through here, it might be good if we all stop it and save lives, but it

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might be part of what needs to happen because the earth also moves through its cycles and motions.

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So me, Cleburne needs to be able to say, I am willing to be part of whatever God has planned

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for me up to and including a death that feels uncomfortable, which they're all going to anyways.

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Right. So that being said, when Jesus changed the weather, one, he was asleep on the boat.

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So he wasn't too stressed about it. And then when he got up and it's like, fine,

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we'll turn this storm off right now. But he told his disciples several times,

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you'll be able to do all that I've done and more. That was one of his things for us. And he got,

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and he got frustrated when they were having a hard time with this, like the time they brought him a

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woman that was needing to be needing to be cleaned of demons. And he was like, guys, how much longer

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am I going to be with you? Like you've been with me, you've seen how we do this. You know how to do

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it. You should be doing this right now. Now this is a very important distinction because he didn't

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posture himself as saying, Hey, y'all can't do it. I can, you can't do this. So you need to like

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follow me. When he said, I am the way he didn't say, I am the way he said, I am the way do it

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like this. And you'll be able to do it. And what he kept trying to do was empower people. And that

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got him killed. Just like whenever he was at the, the, the feast for the Palm Sunday and he came to

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town and Mary like washed his feet and he's at the banquet. People wanted to come see him. And the

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Pharisees were saying, not only, you know, they were discussing not only getting rid of him,

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can I say killing him? They're probably not a good word for the algorithm, but anyway, they wanted

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to get rid of him. But they also discussed getting rid of Lazarus who he had brought back from the

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dead. They said, because of him, because of reason of him, people are leaving us and following Jesus.

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Now, why would a religious body care anything about what people do with their eternal soul?

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They didn't care about that. They cared about losing their customers that they had, they had

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wrapped around their finger. They had a really good business model in place. I call it the,

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the religious industrial complex. So here comes as long as it's been around as soon as Cain killed

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Abel that dictated how the world was going to run. Right. So anyways, so that was what he came to do.

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He came to empower the individuals, which creates more harmony in a group rather than a few

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individuals that understand enough of how spirituality works and enough of our innate

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desire to put our faith into something because we need to grow spiritually. But that doesn't get

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nurtured, which is why he makes so many references to people who hurt children, right? Like spiritual

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children. So the church was the one place where he went in and like flipped over tables and like

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wrecked house, right? Like he will straight up do that because that's the one place that

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means the most people that are capturing people's need to put their spiritual attention towards

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growth and truth, but they monetize it. They feed off of that and they become a, they become a,

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like a, not a blockade, what's the word, a gatekeeper, right? So they say you can come

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this far, but if you ask any other questions or you try to go past this blasphemy and hellfire

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and damnation, right? No question was off limits to Jesus. So yeah, he was here to empower people,

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said we should and could do all that he did and more, but we cannot get those same levels of

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mastery of the material world until we're able to accept surrender into the I am. And then we will

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begin being shown where we can actually perceive it. The energy that's around us that is up till

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now and perceivable to the human eye and choose to interact with the energy bodies that's in each

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person. So what, what he was doing was healing was just in real time, instantly clearing the energy

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fields of human beings. When they say there was a lot of demon possessed people, we've all, we've

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all been old enough and around enough churches. You would think we would have bumped into a demon

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possessed person if it looked like what it looks like in the movies, right? But that doesn't happen

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what a demon is. So this sounds scary, right? But what were the, what happened every time Jesus

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bumped into somebody that was demon possessed, they called him out, they called him out,

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they called him a demon. The demons got scared of him, right? Correct. What, what is he to be scared

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of? He is pure love. So demons are those energies that are afraid of love. They feed on fear. They

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latch onto people and these can be sicknesses, illness. They are an energy. It's not a human

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personality that we can try to turn it into. It's an energy that gets into people to whatever degree.

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And what he was able to do was touch it with so much love because he never killed the demon. He

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took them out of the bodies of people he didn't kill. Yeah. So all energy is allowed to exist,

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but what's going to happen is as we are in this womb, this matrix, this purification process

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through the consciousness of all humanity, what's happening is like a sifting process. So anyone,

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any energy, any soul that is choosing to be cleared, to be elevated, to ascend is allowed

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to do so. Anyone that wants to sleep is allowed to do so. Wow. One, I mean, obviously there's a lot of

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like being asleep also is like being in the matrix and the battery pack, right? Where you're just

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living it out, right? And some people want to get inserted back in there. And that's what we see

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today, right? We see tons of this, right? Whether it's just being doom scrolling on Twitter or

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for TikTok, et cetera, right? This is all that. What I'd love to explore with you is can you tell

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us some of the ways and some of the things that you're doing to do those surrenders, to get into

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that Christ consciousness, to help your body get elevated, to become more in alignment with the will

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of God so that you can be what those early apostles were, right? They overcame pain, suffering,

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persecution. They tapped into the source, right? They were there and elevated and they could be

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trusted like that. Not everybody can be trusted like. So how do you, what are some of the things

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you're doing today and what can you tell our audience that that's helping you get to that stage?

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I would say that there are things that I do. I would say religious practices or almost even

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religious experimentations or offerings, if you will, or just things I pursue spiritually. But

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before I say that, I want to say that a lot of times what people look for is a thing to either

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use it as a way to sort of like manipulate God to get something. Like I'm going to go read this

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thing or do this fasting or go on this retreat or I'm going to behave this way. But what happens six

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months later when they didn't get the result they wanted out of it? Does the pendulum swing back the

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other way? Do they lose their faith? So a process of surrendering my will is effectively what it all

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boils down to and not using any of these processes as a way to, not using them as a form of escapism

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either. So I'm not doing that as a way to avoid my life. So in my personal life, I'm 40 now and I've

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done a number of things that in the back of my mind, I knew I was doing them so that I could prove

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to myself that I wasn't not doing it simply because I didn't think I could. I did stuff enough to

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prove to myself that, okay, if I want to do this, I could commit to this, I can do this, I could be

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successful of this playing the world's game in any number of ways. But after enough of that and I had

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proven myself to myself, I said, okay, well, that's really for sure not why I'm here and that's not

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what I'm supposed to be doing. So how can I practice letting go of one, what my ego, what my

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avatar, what my persona had been built up towards to get me to this point? How can I let that go?

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Who is my identity? And then how can I grow? What can I serve? So things that I do do,

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like last week, Wednesday through Saturday, I did a three day water fast. So partly because as we

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just talked about that, the disciples brought a woman to be exercised and he said, these kind

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come out not but by prayer and fasting. So I was fasting as a way because it's one is just healthy,

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right? Like Dana White, the UFC president, right? Just posted a thing the other day saying he did a

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three day water fast. So I was like, honestly, it's probably time I should do a fast. I should

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do a fast. I haven't done one. I've been like eating next to nothing all this year anyways,

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but I'm meaning to do a fast just to clean the mechanism and also take a break from which I fast

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from other things for periods of time. But a three day food fast, what that does is one, it gives

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your body a chance to clear and recalibrate and deal with some of the energy shifts that have been

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going on in the world that have been felt a lot. A lot of people have been like tired and feeling

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weird things. So not continually putting stuff in your body gives your body a chance to process

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what's already in it and get rid of stuff that has been trying to work out. And then during that

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time, I became aware that even as someone who pays really close attention to everything that I think

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about, and I'm a healthy person by fitness standards, I'm pretty healthy, but I eat a lot

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as a self-soothe mechanism or as a coping mechanism or as an escapism. So there were a lot of times

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during those three days where I was like uncomfortable and the thought was like, I wanted to reach for some

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food. And I was like, well, I can't. So now what do I do with this emotion that I'm having? I guess

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I better just go sit down and breathe for a couple of minutes. And then through that process,

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no big revelations during those three days, because I didn't have the intention. I wasn't doing it so

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that God could give me a vision or something like that. I was just doing it to do it because

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somewhere along the way it's been proven and said in any number of arenas, secular, medicinal,

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spiritual, everybody says fast. So I do them sometimes. Yeah. Your slough enough dead cells.

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There's so many things that come from it. Right. Absolutely. And I don't need to have a mental

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exchange in place that I'm expecting something. Now afterwards, I got some next level stuff.

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But during that time, I just got to watch myself, how I view food as a, as a, as a mechanism outside

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of just fueling the body. And then once I was done and slowly reintroducing food, there were

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certain foods that I had been eating that when I, now that it's the only thing my body's getting,

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I like really can observe how it's reacting to my body. Whereas before I was just cramming stuff in.

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So it lets you be aware of the, the sensitivity your body has to foods as you begin reintroducing.

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Mm hmm. I think one of the central, um, I don't know if it's appeals because fasting can be hard

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when you first start. Um, but it was deeply beneficial for me last year. I lost 30 pounds

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last year, primarily with fasting. And what I realized is that fasting is actually a,

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it's a practice of stressing your body. Um, I can't remember who taught me about this. Like

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meditation is essentially the same thing. It's a practice of stress so that you can teach your

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body how to deal with the stress. So it's not fasting that's important. It's the dealing with

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the stress. And that was provocative for me when I kind of made that shift last year that, okay,

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it's not, you know, something I hate. It's something that's actually incredibly empowering

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when you learn, Oh my God, I can actually handle that. Like that's very powerful.

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Yeah. First of all, congratulations on losing the weight and then also gaining a higher capacity

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or mastery over your, yourself and your ability to like see yourself in real time. That's awesome.

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And I took me 56 years to get there. I mean, it took me 56 years to get to a place where I, so

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it started cause in two, it's like 2010, I told my kids, you know, I'd love to be two 25 again.

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I just as a joke and every year I would say the same thing on my birthday or sometime and my kids

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would always tease me about it. And then last year I worked with a coach and realized I had been in

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living in survival mode for the last 10 years from my divorce. And all of a sudden I learned to let

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it go. And it was like, Holy shit. And what I think part of those 30 pounds was is just my historical

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inflammation from the stress of that. Like I, it just came off, but I had the inertia. I told myself,

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you know what, I'm not, I don't want to be 80 and never have done it. I want at least to say,

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could I get back there? And I did. So I had a really intentional goal that I set for myself.

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And I think that really helped a lot. I always tell people, if you want to fast, you've got to

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set yourself a meaningful goal to even get there. Cause once I set that meaningful goal, then all

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the obstacles weren't as strong. Right. So like you were committed to seeing it through. Yeah.

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Cause I think that's what fasting essentially is, is it's going into a stress state.

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Yep. I'd made a video about this a while back, but I think entirely that meditation, the biggest

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thing to take away from that is your ability to regulate your system, whether in times of boredom

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or in times of fight or flight, because like a lot of, like a lot of times people get so addicted

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to the escapism of meditation where you're in that half a sleep state, that theta brainwave state,

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and it is very peaceful. So sometimes people want to run off and live in a cave, you know what I

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mean? And just fall off of society because they'd rather pretend that that is the totality of an

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ideal life. Or people are so wrapped up in a, I always say that the stimulation is simulation,

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like everything here is simulation. Right. So some people just get totally into it and they're very

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hedonistic and very like, like, you know, super in the world in the flesh and all fine and good,

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but where is the balance between that? When are you, when do you, you feel the most alive when

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you're in a fight or flight is triggered for one positive reason or another, right? Like lust or

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fight or something you feel super alive when you feel super blissful and like your touching spirit

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is when you're the farthest away. But meditation exactly should, in my opinion, help bridge that

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gap to where no matter where you're at in your life, you're sort of walking on one foot on each

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side of the veil. So even when somebody's like something stressful is happening, you can still

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sort of just in that moment, just consciously unnoticeably take a breath and realize like,

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you know, your heartbeats rising, right? Like you're so in tune with what your body's doing.

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You can just bring it back to where you want it to be. So you don't get carried away by the,

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your, it's control of your attention, which the world's always trying to feed on your attention

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and attract it into something. And then we're, we're led obliviously into whatever someone else

372
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,000
has picked out for us. So meditation helps you control where your attention goes in any moment.

373
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,280
Well, I think it's also important, you call that something really interesting is that it's not just

374
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:57,680
for dealing with fight or flight. It's also dealing with boredom. I think more people suffer from

375
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:04,800
boredom than they do trauma. You know, there's a sense of meaninglessness and get bored. Boredom

376
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,680
is really hard to deal with. It's, it's cause it's constant. It's just a never ending wave. And I

377
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,800
think what it does is it pulls us into either the past or the future. Like, Oh, remember when it was

378
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:20,560
awesome or what if it got better? And we're always searching for the dopamine hit. And I think, you

379
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,080
know, it's kind of one of the things about social media that has taught us about what it means to

380
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:30,960
be human being is we can get addicted to dopamine because we're bored as human beings, you know?

381
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:36,160
Yeah. You're spot on. Yeah. Jonathan, I don't know if you saw that. I don't know if it was Elon Musk

382
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,320
or somebody who said they did these experiments about putting somebody in a room and just telling

383
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,440
them to hang tight for an hour, right? To go sit down in a room by themselves. It's not a dark room,

384
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:51,360
but do that. And the amount of people that couldn't actually sit still for maybe 20, yeah,

385
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,080
for an hour, but let alone 20 minutes. So I think going back to the, these disciplines that we're

386
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:01,600
doing, I think, I think the more, more and more people are, are, are awakening to doing the hard

387
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:07,840
things consistently over time has massive, um, important effects. So whether that's meditation,

388
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,000
cause your mind that the reason why they recommend 20 minutes is that first 15 minutes, you just

389
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:17,200
wrestling with yourself. And those last five are close to deep in, you're going in, people do ice

390
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:22,560
baths, people do fasting. And when you're used to that and you have that, even though it's challenging,

391
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:28,160
at least your brain knows how to correct itself. They've even said that it's better for you to,

392
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,640
to lose your track of thought and go back to the constant that keeps you in that meditative state,

393
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,840
the breath work or the mantra, then to go straight 15 minutes without having to do it at all. They

394
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,960
actually like the fact that you recognize that's the beauty of it. And I had an interesting,

395
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,680
I told Jonathan this a while back and I think it was really key is that I've taken ketamine and so

396
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:53,760
as Jonathan, um, not necessarily for, uh, like coming out of, you know, addiction or depression,

397
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,320
but to rather reset the brain. Cause it has this ability and we've both been places where we're

398
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:05,360
seeing massive amounts of creativity going on. But one time I did it, I thought it was done with

399
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,480
it. And I even talked to my, my daughter, I went back into the room, I laid down and all of a

400
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:16,000
sudden I'm looking up at this ceiling fan and I just keep looking up again and it's almost

401
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:22,400
reverberating out and it's like, Oh shit, this is not going away. I am not, Oh my God, where the

402
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,720
hell am I right now? Right. And so that's called the K-hole. You might've heard of that term,

403
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:32,480
Cleaver. I'm not sure if you have, but when people are trapped in this space in their mind, um,

404
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,880
there, it's can be a really scary place. And, and it's called the K-hole. Well, in my back of my

405
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,520
mind, I said, you know what, I could be in a gutter someplace, knocked out dead. I could just be

406
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,200
alive and free. I'm just going to let this thing go and ride this thing and see what happens.

407
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,640
And very quickly I got out of it and I don't think I would've been able to

408
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:54,480
transcend that K-hole moment had I not had some mental fitness in the head from meditation prior

409
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,680
to that and some inner workings, right? To be able to get through those kinds of tough phases. So.

410
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:08,000
I agree entirely. Like any practice that allows you to be more, be more quick at observing

411
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,440
what's going on inside your, your consciousness and be able to steer it or at least accept

412
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:18,960
surrender into the, into the moment and let go, let not let fear guide you. Right. Um, which is,

413
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:26,000
I think the ever present initiation at every step, it's, are you going to let fear guide you or love

414
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,480
or faith, however you want to look at it, but it's always a shedding of fear. And then you grow in

415
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,160
your spiritual awareness and power.

416
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:40,240
I'm, I'm, I'm going to guess and say, you don't currently believe like you have in the past that

417
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:46,800
you've sort of come to this space because it's, would you agree with that? And if you do,

418
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,120
where did that start? What, what really brought you to like, what was the attractors that really

419
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:52,160
kind of shaped your thinking?

420
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:59,600
Yeah. So even as a small kid, my main things that interested me, the things that called to me were,

421
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,840
you know, what, like I'm seven years old wondering what is inner peace? How does, how does that,

422
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,000
how do you get that right? Like what's the deal with Buddhist monks? Um, why don't we all just

423
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,320
die and go to heaven now? What's the point of all this? It sucks. You know what I mean? Like, um,

424
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:18,240
so I was always wanting to understand how concepts like eternity work, who is God,

425
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:22,960
what, why doesn't the Bible make sense a lot of times, or at least sometimes when I read it, why

426
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,280
does it sound different than the way the old, the old preacher man up there says before he asked for

427
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:34,000
the offering plate. So, um, so trying to make sense of the world, but also trying to make sense of

428
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,720
who, trying to discover who am I? So a lot of my early life was everything was geared towards that.

429
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:43,440
All of my, uh, vocations were geared towards that, right? I was in the Marines for four years. After

430
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:48,160
that, I was a professional fighter for several years. Um, I've had a number of vocations that

431
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:53,680
forced me to find out who I am in these types of situations and in these types of energies and how

432
00:41:53,680 --> 00:42:00,160
to flush out the crap that I didn't, didn't want, or at least come to grips with the fact that stuff

433
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,720
that maybe I would have preferred otherwise, but this is, this is my limitation or a strength,

434
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:12,080
whatever. So self discovery was probably the first many years of my, my process, whether knowingly

435
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:18,080
or not. And then there came a point where I became comfortable enough to say, you know what,

436
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:25,760
I can no longer go along with what doesn't sit right in my soul just because I've been programmed

437
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:32,480
to think that outside of this thing, uh, is something bad, some sort of eternal punishment,

438
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,600
because that also doesn't track for me. Like there wouldn't be built some system that just

439
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:43,600
so happened to excludes all of time and history, except for this small pocket of humanity that

440
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:48,000
just so happens to have been built around this one book and this one corner of the world. And if you

441
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:53,200
deviate from that, you're screwed for all eternity. I'm like, well, that really rules out the

442
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,920
time and history. So I was like, okay, so what is the universal truth and what is as true about me

443
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:03,440
now, if I were alive 600 years ago or 600 years from now, those were the things I wanted to know.

444
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,920
What is universally true and what exists outside of time and what is my connection to all of that?

445
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:14,480
As far as letting go of the fear of potentially being blasphemous, that was where that was the

446
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:21,360
first big level of, uh, of self discovery. And then there was the fear of being blasphemous.

447
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,920
Big level of, uh, letting go, just like you said around the time of last year where you felt

448
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:31,600
comfortable saying, you know what I am, I had to say, you know what I am, God, how you made me

449
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:37,120
and right or wrong. There's plenty of both plenty of right and plenty of wrong, but I was made.

450
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:43,920
I don't recall selecting any of this stuff, any of the, the environments I was born into or whatever.

451
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:50,480
I feel like I do my very best. So from this point on, uh, I'm going to trust you to either correct

452
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:56,640
me or strengthen me, but I'm going to, that was where I started shedding layers of fear,

453
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:01,360
but also surrendering by saying, I just am, and I'm going to move as the spirit leads.

454
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:07,520
And effectively it was a process of letting go of how much is my ego leading or my, my fear ego is

455
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:13,040
generally fear-based or it's at least pattern recognition, trying to repeat itself, trying to

456
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:19,520
get rid of that stuff and be more in line with the will of we say the father. I like to pray to God,

457
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:26,320
the father, because that verbiage, that imagery, uh, works well with me, but I, I know that what

458
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,400
you would call God, when you, when you visit with, when you are in the presence of looking through

459
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:36,240
the eyes of the all, it doesn't exist in the same construct as like a man, like a sky daddy with a

460
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:41,600
beer. That's not how that works, but, um, that is a really long winded way to say that you could

461
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:46,880
probably edit all that out, but, um, through a series, through a, through a few decades of

462
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,440
self-discovery led to a point where I was comfortable letting go of that self. When was that?

463
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:59,600
All of last year. Oh, so this recent that you really came to this space. Yeah. Yeah. All of

464
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,240
last year was what you would call like a big tower moment or dark night of the soul. Like that. A lot

465
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:08,560
of people go through, I was just massively depressed. I could no longer keep up as well

466
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:14,480
with all the responsibilities on my plate. I was doing my best to just, uh, yeah, keep the ball

467
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,640
rolling and keep, keep the kids happy and comfortable in the house. Well put together in my health and

468
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,280
order. But mentally I was like, I was certain I was about to die or something. I thought my body

469
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:29,200
was about to give out. I didn't know what was going on. And then, uh, I just started letting go.

470
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,440
And then earlier this year in January, uh, I started a tick talk where, cause I was like,

471
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:38,640
well, nobody knows me there. So I can go there and say things that, uh, nobody's listening anyways.

472
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,400
And maybe somebody will find me and I can have conversations that I would like to have that I

473
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,800
don't have anyone else to talk about. And then that platform grew, you know, has been growing

474
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:51,440
pretty quickly. And that's where, what one thing led to another. And that's how you guys found me,

475
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:57,200
that somebody from there invited me onto a podcast and you guys saw it and now we're chatting. So,

476
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:03,920
uh, yeah, last year was the old me dying, the ego death, the avatar had reached the end of the road.

477
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:08,080
The midlife crisis, I call it as a, as a, as a spiritual shedding and what it's a, it's an

478
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,960
opportunity for people to decide that this character that you built around the age of puberty

479
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:19,120
that helped you survive and function and be successful in society, uh, is only meant to get

480
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:23,520
you so far. And once that thing is ready to kick the bucket, what a lot of guys do, especially,

481
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,360
you know, like, what do you do? I want the yellow Corvette. I want the, I want the,

482
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,440
all the stuff, right? Like you want to go on trips or if you're in a position to date, you want to

483
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:37,040
get a, get a girl or whatever. Um, so that's people saying, you know what, I've only ever known

484
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,440
this worldly way of doing it. It's gotten me this far and something doesn't feel right,

485
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:46,000
but I have to hold onto this. And then they spend the rest of their life trying to get through life

486
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:52,640
and like an, like old dead skin, or if you're willing to let that version of you die and be

487
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:58,880
born again, uh, there's, there's a, there's a spiritual empowerment that comes along with that.

488
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,880
I feel, and I've, you know, I've been seeing more and more of that and you guys as well, like,

489
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:07,840
I'm pretty sure this past year of your life has probably felt a lot lighter and more, uh,

490
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,240
vibrant than many of the years prior.

491
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:15,280
The most profound year of my life. I mean, hands down, this has been the most profound year of my

492
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:22,480
life. And I think because I opened my, I opened the door to possibility, like I said, let's go,

493
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,280
let's just dive down the street. I remember I walk my dog every night and it's right where it

494
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,200
happened. I remember exactly where it was. And I said, I'm just going to do this and see what

495
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:37,920
happens. Because intellectually it felt true already. I probably had been in that space for

496
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:43,280
probably a half a decade where I was very comfortable because Rich and I have already

497
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:49,920
always had conversations about it. And I realized, okay, once I opened myself up to the possibility,

498
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:58,640
now all my walks started becoming very, very different that I started because Rich and I

499
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:03,200
have been in on a conversation around love as a way of life. I think that's the, that's the key

500
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:08,880
for me of why Jesus has always been incredibly relevant is Jesus created a very simple key

501
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:14,800
that says, if you live your life this way, it's not going to be easier, but it's going to be a

502
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:22,240
massively better experience. Because you're, because when you practice love, you create a

503
00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:30,640
willingness to always see the good first. And that creates an experience that is radically enjoyable.

504
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:36,720
That's the best way I would put it is you start realizing, God, life is really much better than

505
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:42,400
I see it. And our brain is not really used to working that way. That especially for there's,

506
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:47,760
do you mind if there's, there's two takeaways I want to have from that, like God saying, live in

507
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,080
love with that, with that actually looks like in real time. And then I also want to mention that

508
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:58,880
for men in society, right? What, what the expectations are on us and the identity that

509
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:03,680
for any of us that have made it up to, you know, our twenties, thirties, forties, fifties,

510
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:10,160
we got that way by being a man in accordance with society's expectations. And a man is supposed to

511
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:15,520
be certain and be this way. You know what I mean? So the idea of saying, I'm just going to surrender

512
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:21,520
that is a hundred percent like letting go of, you know, what's going to be on the other side of this?

513
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,120
What kind of a man am I going to be after this? How, how is society going to receive me

514
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:31,920
when I began to practice surrender, when I began to practice ease, and even saying I'm going to walk

515
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:38,080
in a vibration of love like that, you know, not too long ago that would, that would just about be

516
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:45,680
fighting words in some groups of guys, right? Like, you know what I mean? So yes. So society

517
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:53,680
has tricked men into not being the priest of the household who, who serves the family and,

518
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:59,360
and functions as, as the priest of the household. Like we've been historically biblically told that

519
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:04,960
we are supposed to be the, the, the channels through which love, God's love can flow out into

520
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:12,320
the world, but also the leaders and the builders of a divine loving idea. So being a man in today's

521
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:19,280
society adds a layer of challenge. And I almost want to say, I'm glad that there is such an uprising

522
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:26,640
of so many like hippie girls and like, like there are a lot of women in the space of spirituality

523
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:33,840
that are creating a space where it's okay for men to feel accepted and not like they're going to look

524
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:39,280
less manly to be able to have these kinds of conversations. So in that regard, that is a,

525
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:46,720
that is a way where women are leading or creating space for men to grow by saying it's okay to shift.

526
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,760
It's not emasculating. It's not turning men into women. It's not feminizing. It's not,

527
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:57,840
it's not a feminating man. It's saying we understand that what a strong man really does is

528
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,440
operates this way, not that way. What we've been tricked into thinking is that a strong man is

529
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:09,200
what we've been used as effectively slaves and a system that keeps us out of the home, keeps us

530
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:15,840
focused on work, keeps us focused on materialism and anything else, you know what I mean? So I don't

531
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:22,000
want to touch on this because I'm sure you guys have wrestled with this enough, but it's a, that

532
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:27,760
is shifting. But then also Jesus saying to exist in love, to follow his example, to carry your cross.

533
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:32,720
He didn't say carry my cross, right? Like we're talking about, he said, cross daily. Yeah.

534
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:41,840
So, yeah, so I am going away, but this way is what you should do. You carry your cross. And then what

535
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:47,920
happens is that's a lot like, um, you know, like we walk in the shade of a lot of trees that we

536
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:54,320
didn't plant. So to some degree we have to be the ancestors that does some work that continues to

537
00:51:54,320 --> 00:52:02,000
bring in more and more of that love into the world around us. So he went first. He came in at a time

538
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:07,920
where the world was so backwards that spirituality was so controlled and weaponized that if you even

539
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:15,280
attempted to empower people to their own inner divination, you'd get, you get in public, you know

540
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:21,440
what I mean? Like crucified in public and made an example of. So he went first. We've been in the

541
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:26,720
Christ stage ever since then, which is, you know, I like to mention a lot that when he died on the

542
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:31,040
cross and the earth shook up to the temple and the temple, they'll split from top to bottom.

543
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:36,400
So since then, the veil has been open to all of us since then. So the people who press in and are

544
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:41,680
willing to let go of fear and say, I'm going in, whatever this means, I trust you at least enough

545
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:46,640
God to know that I wouldn't have this desire to look in here if it was a trick. You wouldn't trick

546
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:52,400
me that way, right? God either way I'm looking. So it's at least faith over fear to that regard.

547
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:57,600
And as we do that, as more of us people keep allowing love to channel through us by existing

548
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:04,000
simply in the, I am not the, I am plus I want a nice house and then I'll be, I am, or I am,

549
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:11,200
and I want things to work out this way and then I'll be, but just simply I am God flow through me,

550
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:16,640
heaven on earth through me, your will be done, not mine. So the more of us that do that, the more we're

551
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:22,800
moving earth into a future where there will be tons of people existing in Christ consciousness,

552
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:30,400
where healing is literally done through a actual grasp of energy on the spot, clearing demons,

553
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:35,600
clearing sicknesses, illnesses, energies, energies that are attempting to destroy the presence of

554
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:42,160
love, energies that flee when they are in the presence of love. That's what society is becoming

555
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:49,440
in a very fast pace right now. I agree. Yeah. Go ahead, John. No, if you had a thought, go ahead.

556
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:58,240
That surrender is what's so key to me and that's what's so crazy because the nature of what Jesus

557
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:04,080
did in that Abraham 8 58 when he's asked who are you? You came before Abraham. He goes before Abraham,

558
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:10,960
I am. Right. And so he's basically throwing down what God told Moses when he's going to Egypt to

559
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:16,400
say, who should I say sent you? Say that I am sent you. Right. So he's claiming that, but at the same

560
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:21,680
time, he's surrendering that kenosis where he comes down and condescends and he opens it up.

561
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:27,040
So what's crazy about that two sided thing, which you talked about a while ago is there were those

562
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:32,560
times where he was sweating blood, right? You know, and the garden of Gethsemane, the night of sweating

563
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:38,880
blood, because he's seeing that separation that's going to happen in the future. And yet who drained

564
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:43,600
the power from me when the lady touches him? I don't know when the final judgment is coming.

565
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:49,680
That's only the father. That is the consciousness that I would love to embrace because you're tapping

566
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:56,800
into both hands. Right? Yes. Like he was, he was co, he was a co creator. He was the most possible

567
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:04,800
expression of God in the human form, in the form of love, but also he wasn't totally in charge of

568
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,960
the story because exactly that's one of my favorite stories when you, you know, you kind of went past

569
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:13,360
it and some people may not catch that, but where he said, who touched me, the story where he was in

570
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:19,360
a crowd, a crowd was swarming him. So he was, and some woman wanted to be healed and she couldn't

571
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:24,720
get his attention. So she reached out and touched his robe and he, without seeing what happened,

572
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:29,760
was shocked and said, who touched me? I felt power go through me, which meant he was just an open

573
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:36,080
channel in that moment. And it wasn't because he, Jesus of Nazareth, the carpenter thought I'm going

574
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:43,840
to heal this woman, but she, her faith went and touched the Christ. Her faith could not be denied.

575
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:51,280
Right. There are a number of examples of that also. So the, the Centurion, yes, the serpent.

576
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:56,480
Yes. I've just, yes, the same exact thing. That's one of my favorite stories because a Centurion was

577
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:02,960
not educated in the Abrahamic culture. He was not a Jew. He was a pagan, right? He did not worship

578
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:07,680
the way they worship, but he was educated and he was a blue collar guy. This is a soldier,

579
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:13,040
but he was at least educated enough to be aware of this guy who he's hearing about and what he's

580
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:17,760
doing and what that implied. And when Jesus was going to come and the guy said, Hey, I'm,

581
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,400
I'm not even fit for you to come into my household. I'm a man under authority. When I say one person

582
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:27,600
to go do this or go do that, it's done. So I know all you need to do is speak a word, which meant he

583
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:32,160
was aware that Jesus controlled energy. He controlled the invisible world. We could call that an,

584
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:39,680
an army of angels that he was aware that this guy had control of the unseen. And he had zero doubt

585
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,280
to where he could say, don't even come in my house, but would you please just say it and it'll be

586
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:48,560
done. And he was astonished. So Jesus looked around at his disciples and he's like, you,

587
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:53,040
you Jack asses, you see this guy, why don't you get it? You're literally hanging out with me.

588
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,800
And he's got that much faith. One of you guys got out on a boat and walked on water with me for a

589
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:03,920
few seconds. Like, you know what I mean? So, so all of these concepts are, and him saying, you know,

590
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,920
there's going to be people from the East and the West sitting at the table of the, of Isaac and

591
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:13,040
Abraham and Jacob, but the, the children of Israel won't be there. That's his way of saying that

592
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:18,720
everybody in the world is not excluded from gaining access to this Christ consciousness.

593
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:23,280
You don't have to be born this way. You don't have to be circumcised or baptized or whatever.

594
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:29,440
You just have to like, be willing to know without a doubt that what you're looking at, and it's not a

595
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:36,000
dogmatic thing. It's a presence of a energetic source of love. That is a lot of people have a

596
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:43,280
hard time accepting at this point, but it's a, it's the, the, the second coming is like sweeping

597
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:49,280
right now because so many people are waking up into that, that at least, yeah, I think it's,

598
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:55,840
it's almost like a planetary or a cosmic alignment, right? Would you agree that it's more like a

599
00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:00,800
perception as opposed to, well, obviously the book of Revelation talks about the new Jerusalem

600
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:05,680
coming, right? And God doesn't want to blow the planet up, but are you saying, is it going to be

601
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,840
twofold? Is there going to be something real to what Revelation talked about, or is it, is the

602
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:15,520
actual shift something the kingdom is truly coming within? What do you think? So I've actually been

603
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:21,120
given a big, man, I don't want to get too much into this, but you asked me, I wasn't even going

604
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:29,440
to bring it up, but yeah, so I can't get into it too much, but there I will soon. So you know how

605
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:38,480
Jesus said, this age is ending an age and back in Genesis, where it says, these are the stories of

606
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:45,920
the ages of the days where God created the earth, the heavens and the earth, right? So age,

607
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:57,280
each age has a direct handoff to the next age. So in each age, there was a demigod, a Christ,

608
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:02,400
a savior that was effectively spreading the same message. So you could look at Zoroaster,

609
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:08,960
who was the first that we know of monotheistic religion in Iran. And this story that's thousands

610
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:14,240
of years older than the story of Jesus is the exact same story. Miraculous birth, King of the

611
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:20,320
land had a order out on his life. Archangels were involved in his upbringing. At a certain age,

612
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:26,320
he left home to begin studying. At age 30, he reached Samadhi with Ahura Mazda. Ahura Mazda

613
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:31,440
means the supreme creator of the universe. And through that direct connection and through those

614
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:35,840
teachings, he went out and shook up the established religion of the, I mean, it's the exact same story

615
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:40,880
of Jesus Christ and it's thousands of years older. And this is not some fringe thing. This is

616
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:51,040
it's super historically validatable that this story existed, but I'm not saying at all that Jesus is a

617
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:58,160
knockoff or a copy. He existed. This new timeline did exist, but you're saying his purpose was for

618
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:07,040
an age. So here's the thing. So Zoroaster, his religion, Zoroastrianism, those priests are

619
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:15,040
called Magi. That's right. So the kings of the East, the wise men of the East. So they are

620
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:21,440
astute astrologers. I don't know how we as Christians just breeze right past the fact

621
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:25,920
that there's a story that we sing every year around this time about three wise men that just

622
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:31,840
so happen, like in the picture books when we're kids in Sunday school, it's always some noticeably

623
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:37,120
bright big star. Couldn't miss it, right? If you couldn't miss it, there wouldn't only be a few

624
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:42,480
guys that just spotted it and followed it on a long journey to a geographical location. They were

625
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:48,960
Zoroastrian priests who were very skilled astrologers. So they were always observing

626
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:53,440
the stars and they knew when the one came that said the birth of the king of the Jews, the new

627
01:00:53,440 --> 01:01:00,000
Christ has come. So that was their cue to go. They brought gifts as is appropriate to let mom and

628
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:05,440
dad know who they are, exactly who this son is, which would be extra confirmation because as all

629
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:09,520
of us that have been in the spiritual space know, we know God doesn't just give us one message.

630
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:15,280
He's going to give you a few dots that would not connect otherwise, a few synchronicities that

631
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:20,960
don't connect otherwise, unless you know it's not happening because you somehow dreamed it.

632
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:27,760
Okay. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Okay. So Joseph and Mary, here's baby Jesus. We've already been

633
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,400
visited by an angel. Stuff's already not making sense. He's born. Now three guys show up with

634
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:36,240
gifts. They're well-dressed. They've got an entourage of servants. They're bringing gold

635
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:40,960
and frankincense and myrrh and they're letting us know also this kid's special. And then when he's

636
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:50,000
of age, he's going to go train with them further. Okay. So the difference is in each age,

637
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:56,800
where there was one Christ was the one that said, there will be lots of us. We will all do what he

638
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:03,120
did greater works than these and more will you do. He was the one that said, when he comes back,

639
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:10,160
when the Christ consciousness returns, the end of this age will be a lot of people becoming Christ

640
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:16,720
like. And what to be one, the lookout for is the people who are gaining that ability enough,

641
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:23,600
but claiming to be the Christ, the one or the one to attract your worship. So anybody that's not

642
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:30,240
directing you, anyone that's not directing you back into your, into your center, not from a selfish

643
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:36,560
standpoint, not in an ego vanity standpoint, but the kingdom of God is within you. Right? Jesus said,

644
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,160
it doesn't come by sight. You don't look here, look there. The kingdom of God is within you.

645
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:46,080
So anybody that says, look at me is probably out to trick you. Anybody that says, look at me,

646
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:52,640
says this thing that I'm doing, I'm only doing it to show you that you can do it too, because the

647
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:59,360
father who is in me, I am in the father. I'm in the father and the father is in me. So that is

648
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:06,720
a message throughout the ages that said in different ways. And we are wrapping up the end

649
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:12,800
of this age where there's a lot of people waking up to Christ consciousness and the shift. Sorry,

650
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:19,120
I skipped like getting chills about this one. But, okay. So here's where we really are. This is what

651
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:24,800
I've really been shown outside of a space of time. So we are at the edge of this age and the people

652
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:31,280
that have been doing the inner work and wanting to ascend are about to, and the people that have

653
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:38,560
stayed married to fear or to status quo or to the world are going to stay just like they are. Those

654
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,400
who are ascending in the background of our world right now, like when you, when you hear about all

655
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:49,120
the energy, Virginia talked about this, Jonathan, Virginia Drake talked about this shift. Go ahead.

656
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,720
The Schumann residence and all the, the, the power surges hitting earth. So what's happening right

657
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:59,920
now is the background of our reality, our hologram, our game is effectively a software updates being,

658
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:05,760
being uploaded. And there will come a day in the fairly near future where a bunch of us just all of

659
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:10,720
a sudden it doesn't, we don't really think about people we used to know, coworkers, acquaintances.

660
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:15,120
There, there are a number of people who just aren't. Yes. They're, they're shifting out of

661
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:22,320
your consciousness and our world. Yes. And the experience we are having of life is one where

662
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:29,760
people are able to become aware of our, our energy bodies and the energy construct that we exist in

663
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:38,560
to the level that Jesus did. And the world is going to heal and be able to grow manifest. If you,

664
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:44,160
you know, it's going to shift much more rapidly because the people that are existing in that plane

665
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:50,640
are going to share a common theme, which is we are here to exist in love and bring about love. And we

666
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:55,920
are the, I am right. We're not the ego that thinks I want something or thinks I don't want something.

667
01:04:56,560 --> 01:05:02,880
And then those people that wanted to stay there, the world they are in is going to be a much worse

668
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:07,440
version of the world. Now there's going to be a lot more chaos and calamity and disruption

669
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:13,520
and natural disasters and stuff like that. They are going to see and physically experience the

670
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:19,680
spooky stuff from revelations to a degree, to a degree where earth seems so unlivable,

671
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:25,280
that what they're going to do is plug themselves into the, an actual matrix, a digital, you know,

672
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,880
the, in the backdrop of our life right now, there is AI, there is algorithm everywhere.

673
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:33,200
How did that all of a sudden become such an ever present thing in our life? Right? Like

674
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:38,160
I can't walk down the street and say something to a friend without later that day, getting an ad

675
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:41,600
for something we talked about. Right. So what's going to happen?

676
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:46,880
Neural link actually exists to connect your brain to the digital space.

677
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:53,600
I mean, we're, we're one step away from digital, uh, telec, you know, telepathy and stuff.

678
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,040
Transhumanism. Yep.

679
01:05:55,040 --> 01:06:01,920
Yes. So those of us who are wanting to step in, step to pursue spiritually are about to be in more

680
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:07,280
of a spiritual energy body state. We're still going to recognize ourselves, but like Jesus said,

681
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,000
you won't, you're not going to be married. You're going to be like the angels in heaven,

682
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:14,560
right? We're going to be more in, and we're going to be more aware of and fully embodied by our

683
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:19,360
energy body. Like how it says he transfigured in front of his disciples and he just did a little

684
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,720
shape shift. If you will, however you want to picture that that's going to be us. We're going

685
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:29,920
to have more control of the energy that animates us. God's breath in us. We're going to be trusted

686
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:36,160
with more ability to manipulate and interact with that. Okay. But everybody else is going to be

687
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:41,360
present in a version of the world that's going to shit and they're going to upload themselves

688
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:46,720
into a digital matrix, into a, uh, uh, you know, a place to put their consciousness,

689
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:52,640
just like we did when we came to this earth. Okay. So those are the consciousnesses that have not

690
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:59,040
chosen to ascend at this time. So they've got to go to a new place. The rest of us will inherit

691
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:06,960
the earth. I've told, I've told rich, I told you what about three months ago that I think

692
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:12,560
tribulation is actually going to happen. I think we're in that seven year period. It's not going

693
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:17,200
to look, what are the four horsemen? I don't know, but I told them based on what I'm experiencing

694
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:24,640
in the capacity, when I look at the unified field inside, it looks like what you're talking about.

695
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:33,200
It looks like complete restoration. Like it's, and it's not like I can see it. It's, I'm feeling

696
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:40,960
what it would feel like. And it's like, okay, it's pretty damn good. And if you knew what it

697
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:45,760
felt like you would absolutely want it, but you can't convince people of something they haven't

698
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:54,080
felt, which is, which is why, uh, what we were talking about earlier, the masculine is predominantly

699
01:07:54,080 --> 01:08:00,800
logic and the feminine is predominantly the heart. And in order to see that sense of coherence,

700
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:05,040
which is that space, the unified field, you have to have coherence, which is why women are going

701
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:11,120
to be naturally ahead of the men. Men have got to be able to get down to the heart because until

702
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:16,640
you feel it, the chemical charge is actually happening in your body and you understand the

703
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:24,640
value of it. It has no meaning because we feel meaning. We logically connect the ideas, but in

704
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:30,080
order for them to become gnosis, we have to feel them. And that's what Jesus was able to do. Jesus

705
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:34,400
had perfect coherence to be able to create an energetic experience in people that they felt

706
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:43,120
not just logically concluded. And I also, yeah, I think what's, what's important about what you're

707
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:48,080
saying, Cleburne is also, we're not coming at this from a dispensational standpoint saying you're

708
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:53,200
going to go to hell and you're going to hang out in the lake of fire. What the reason why I'm telling

709
01:08:53,200 --> 01:09:00,720
you about Jesus and about surrender and about what can be this is you're doing it out of love

710
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:06,240
instead of a fear-based construct, right? I'm, I'm why are you saving up? Well, I'm out there

711
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,440
because they're all going to die and they're going to be burning in hell forever. Right? It's like,

712
01:09:09,440 --> 01:09:14,320
no, this is a different paradigm. And I think it comes from a more powerful framework than

713
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:20,560
the traditional old, you know, brimstone kind of deal. Right. And this falls back to are we

714
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:25,600
God or are we separate from God? Well, we're all at least created by and animated by God.

715
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:33,680
So it is, it would be, it would be awfully audacious of me to tell some other aspect of God

716
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:41,280
with his own free will to choose the rate at which he's going to step further into his growing

717
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:49,520
that he needs to do it on my schedule or right now. Jesus was pretty rough, like pretty blunt

718
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:54,000
to the members of the church, the Pharisees, because they were, they were gatekeeping people

719
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:59,600
from the truth and they were misleading people. So they were delaying the evolutionary, the evolution

720
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:05,120
of the consciousness of many people. And this has been going on for a while, but outside of that,

721
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,880
he didn't, you know, when I was a kid, I was like, why didn't he go around and stop all the bad guys

722
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:14,480
at that time? That wasn't the point. But you know, for the same reason, it's like what you do for the

723
01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:19,440
least of these, you do for me, the whole no separation concept. That was the same reason he

724
01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:23,120
said, forgive them. They know not what they do on the cross because there's no difference between me

725
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:30,240
or you or you or you. You are an expression of divinity making a choice. So God loves us so much

726
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:35,280
like when Cain killed Abel and he was like going to put a mark on him and Cain was like, well,

727
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:38,240
if you do that and I go out, the other people are going to see me and they're going to kill me

728
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:43,120
for what I've done. So God put a mark on him so that no one would hurt him. Correct. There's always

729
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:51,120
grace. There's always grace, right? There's always the option to choose what you want. But in God's

730
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:58,080
algorithm, every action has a consequence and you're going to have to keep at it until your

731
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:03,840
choices lead you into Christ consciousness. So that sort of connects where what the ideas of

732
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:11,200
reincarnation, but reincarnation is not as linear as how some people think. But effectively, yes,

733
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:15,920
we've reached the end of the age. There's going to be a splitting off. So this hologram, this game

734
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,920
that we live in, that we perceive, I mean, if you really think about it, we take so much stuff for

735
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:26,480
granted that exists in the world that didn't exist 10 or 15 years ago. And even three years ago,

736
01:11:26,480 --> 01:11:30,400
the world was so different, right? And every now and then stuff will just happen and the world's

737
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:36,720
totally different out of the blue. The world has accelerated since open eye came out. I mean,

738
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:43,200
that's what it's like. It's crazy, right? So, you know, and then you can look back at ancient

739
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:49,120
technology, like the pyramids are probably the most famous example that they are bafflingly

740
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:57,760
well-built. That age had mastery. They were able to build things. That age got wiped away. There

741
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:03,600
is a remnant that remains as a connecting dot for people who need an intellectual connecting dot

742
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:09,840
between the ages to see that that age had its time. You could look at the flight of Egypt in

743
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:14,240
the Bible, by the way, right after the Magi visited Jesus, the parents fled to Egypt to raise him.

744
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:19,520
And that verse, it says, so that prophecy may be fulfilled that I shall call my son out of the land

745
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:26,720
of Egypt. So that was the baton being handed off from one age to the next. Christ said the next

746
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:31,840
time, it's not going to be one. It's going to be a lot of Christ. That's where we're at. That's

747
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:38,720
why there is such a thriving spiritual community that's like for less, for better, for lack of a

748
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:44,480
better term, normal people, right? Like this is not the hippie movement of the sixties necessarily

749
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:50,560
that got stigmatized. This is like, you know, functioning society that are just like, you know

750
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:56,720
what? I'm not trying to be radical here, but no, I'm just going to, I'm just going to see what it

751
01:12:56,720 --> 01:13:03,520
feels like to fall into love. So that's where we're at. That jumping off point is about to happen.

752
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:08,000
And it will be imperceivable as this shift continues to happen, because a lot of people

753
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:13,840
right now are existing in their own version of, you know, calamity, the people that stare at the

754
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:19,040
news, the people that are so emotionally invested. They don't even, they don't even realize that

755
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:26,960
their thoughts, their attention is giving life to that system, to that version of reality that we

756
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:31,280
don't even like, we can't even think about it. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't even exist to us.

757
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:37,200
So that's, that's where the separation is about to happen. Do you have any sense?

758
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:40,720
Do you have any sense of when that was going to happen or is going to happen?

759
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:45,120
I actually believe that I'm, I'm wholly on board with what you're talking about.

760
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:50,880
So here's how time works when you're outside of it. And you shoot how you experience this?

761
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:58,560
Yeah. So when people, people want like a calendar date, right? But what's a better way to understand

762
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:04,000
it? Yeah. A better way to understand it would be if we had mastery of how astrology works, like how,

763
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:09,440
how Genesis right up front in page one, God created lights in the firmament for signs,

764
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:15,920
which later on some guys were watching those signs enough to know when his son was born. So

765
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:22,240
we don't do that. Right. So if you wanted to gain a, gain a PhD in, you know, astrology,

766
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:28,800
astronomy, the planetary motions that those are more of an indicator of God's clock than our

767
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:34,960
calendar, our Gregorian calendar. Those are effectively God's clock, countdown timer. But

768
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:39,520
even that doesn't matter because time doesn't really make sense except when you're paying

769
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:46,800
attention to it. Yeah. You already know, you already felt that. You already felt that, right?

770
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:51,440
Like, so, so how do you determine time? Well, this conscious mind is going to be

771
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:56,480
well, this consciousness that's in this body, when we go to sleep at night, are we also still

772
01:14:56,480 --> 01:15:00,720
experienced, like, are we aging differently? Because when you're in, when you're dreaming

773
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:04,960
or when you're meditating or sometimes like a, like I hit the snooze button, it's a nine minute

774
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:10,720
timer. If I go back to sleep, sometimes I have a dream that is nine minutes long, but it's a

775
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:17,840
whole day for me. So did I live nine minutes or did I live a day during that time? So as we embody

776
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:24,320
ourselves as energy more than the idea that I'm this man, I'm this lump of clay that's animated,

777
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:31,520
we will become more able to accept is, is, are we one, are we God or are we separate from God? Was

778
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:37,280
Jesus God or was he a man? Well, he's a lot of stuff all at once. So are all of us. So once

779
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:45,280
we hear pretty soon, start feeling that time doesn't, doesn't make sense the way we've come

780
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:49,520
to look at it when we look at our clock and time to be to work and all that stuff.

781
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:52,480
I've got a

782
01:15:54,400 --> 01:16:00,560
rich, hold on a second. Yeah. So what I hear you saying is you don't know when it's going to happen

783
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:10,000
on human conceived time. I think that I am experiencing it as quickly as I can accept it.

784
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:16,000
And I don't even know the difference at this point between today or a year ago or two years ago.

785
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:23,440
Because like it exists. So, no, I don't know. I don't know how to give you a calendar day,

786
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:27,920
but if you wanted to look at one, I could just tell you guys as we are heading into this next one

787
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:34,880
year, 2024, over the course of this year, you know, almost like write this conversation down

788
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:40,400
or what you are thinking about today, date it and stamp it and then open it in six months and see

789
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:45,120
if the world you're living at that time even resembles how you felt or what you thought or

790
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:51,280
what was like part of your, your backdrop in your life at this time. It will not be anything the

791
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:57,920
same. It will not be anything the same. I believe that. And I think part of what I

792
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:05,760
hear you saying is in this concept of time is the appearance of how you experience it, not

793
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:12,640
an actual time on a clock. Yes. When you're outside of time in different times, time almost zones

794
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:19,520
and having the same experience at different times. Yes. Side by side in the same room.

795
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:24,560
Just like if you were to have a DVD in your hand, right? I'm looking at it right now,

796
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:30,480
right this second, but if I were to put it in a DVD player and like experience the story,

797
01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:35,040
now you're giving time to it by stretching it out and observing it at a different pace,

798
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:40,080
but take it back out and stop looking at that story. It's right here right now. So that is

799
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:46,320
the story of us from the context of eternity, right? Like it's, it's, it's there. It only exists

800
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:52,480
or has a concept of time when consciousness is going in and moving through that storyline.

801
01:17:52,480 --> 01:17:56,960
But our consciousness, just like when you're in the dream state or the meditative state or the

802
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:03,120
waking state or you're making love to a woman or when you're eating or when you're stuck in traffic,

803
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:09,600
time affects you differently all the time. Sorry for talking so long, by the way. I really meant to.

804
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:17,200
No, dude, this has been one of the fascinating conversations we've had this year. It's because

805
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:22,720
you're, this is very much in our vein. And it's very much in what Rich and I have really been

806
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:28,160
dialoguing for the last year. Let me ask you one question and then Rich, I'll let you close with

807
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:34,160
one question too is where do you go with what you know? What are you doing with it?

808
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:45,200
I am in flow with it. If that I have no personal ambition. I'm not sitting here from my cleavered

809
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:51,120
mind trying to paint a picture of what I want tomorrow to look like. If that, and that's all

810
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:57,120
I can say. I guess the question is what is the responsibility leading you to do with it? Because

811
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:02,080
it's obviously been given to you, the awareness of it. I'm talking about the awareness. Okay. So

812
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:06,080
what do you do with that? Because I think that's what I wrestle with all the time. What do I do when

813
01:19:06,080 --> 01:19:11,840
I suddenly understand grace at a much deeper level? What do you do with that consciousness?

814
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:18,000
As far as like, how do I work through my day to day? What, what sort of practical things do I do?

815
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,600
How do you send a message? How do you tell the other? Yeah. Right. Yeah.

816
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:27,040
Jesus led with a message. He told people he did. He was responsible for it. Where is it?

817
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:31,040
Where is this whole journey leading you with that sort of awareness?

818
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:36,960
It is to direct people into their own inner divinity, to take them out of their current

819
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:43,200
framework of who, who the identity that most people hold for themselves is unbelievably

820
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:50,400
limited. And it's not from a state of vanity to say, to point at somebody and say you're God,

821
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:55,760
because you're, you're awesome and you can serve yourself. However you see fit. It's because you

822
01:19:55,760 --> 01:20:03,600
are a cosmically empowered body of energy, literally capable of co-creating reality in

823
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:09,520
conjunction with the divine. And we take this for granted and we misuse it every second of the day.

824
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:14,480
And you think about this anytime you have an idea and put it on paper or start a DIY project or

825
01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:23,200
somebody invents something, there's evidence all around. So directing people to seriously outgrow

826
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:30,400
their current idea or concept of who they are is the main message I'm here to do and do it in a way

827
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:37,680
that has nothing to do with Kleber. It is moving people hopefully in a way that doesn't stroke

828
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:45,760
their, their vanity or their ego, but rather their gratitude for being able to acknowledge

829
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:53,040
that they have been animated and empowered and provided for all this time by a source that's so

830
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:57,920
unfathomably big. And that is what we are. That is what we are.

831
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:02,240
Just so I hear you clearly, you don't want to create the church of Kleber and where you rake in milk.

832
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:10,480
So I've got a spot picked out. It's right next to Joe Lowstein's church in Houston. So no,

833
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:15,840
that's not what a bigger stadium. Yeah. No, that's not what a, no, I'm not a,

834
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:22,080
not trying to start a, start a church or a cult or anything like that. I just want to

835
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:30,400
like that. I just want to continue doing my part and see as many of us working together in this next

836
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:37,680
phase. That's awesome. Yeah. We actually had, we had a Tao priest on, who actually

837
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:41,600
admired Joel Olson. I couldn't believe it. He seemed like just very rooted. And if you read

838
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:45,840
the Dao Dao Chi and like some of the simplicity and makeup, dude, you're impressed by Joel. And

839
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:50,880
he talked a lot about hypnosis and, and he just thought Joel was a great guy. And I'm like, okay,

840
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:56,320
all right, that's, that's you do. Yeah. I can't hate him. I met him before actually. And I had a

841
01:21:56,320 --> 01:22:02,160
chat with him and stuff. I can't hate Joel Osteen. I'm certainly, he's not like an, an example of mine

842
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:12,240
to follow. Because he's like, he's, he's literally not malicious. Right. And he's very, he makes,

843
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:16,880
he makes a ton of money, right? Like, but I at least respect the fact that all the ties that

844
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:21,760
his church makes, he doesn't, he doesn't get paid by the church. He makes his money off of like

845
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:27,040
appearance fees and books. So I'm like, okay, well that I can, I don't, I don't get as grumpy at him

846
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:32,720
as like some of these other mega church pastors, but anyways, yes, he's not a, that's, that's not

847
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:37,920
enough. All right. My last question for you, it's a little bit of a theological content tangent,

848
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:43,600
but it also ties into where we are today. I, it's my understanding that Zoroastrianism was a dualistic

849
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:47,920
kind of construct. There was good and evil, always battling against each other, kind of a lot like

850
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:53,440
the force. You got the sith and the Jedi. And in fact, I don't know if you knew this, but there

851
01:22:53,440 --> 01:22:58,320
was a guy named Manny also from Persia who came along and he created Manichaeism. Shout out to

852
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:02,560
the Navy. You heard of the term Manichaeism? I've heard of it, but I've never looked into it. It

853
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:07,200
was a spin-off of Zoroastrianism and actually Sam Augustine loved it. And he was totally caught

854
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,800
up in it. It was a little bit of Christ-like stuff in there. And there's a lot of dualistic stuff,

855
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:15,600
but one of the things that I was getting at is at least with what we've seen in Revelation. And I

856
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:20,160
think what we love, what I like about it, as opposed to the cycle we're going over and over,

857
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:24,640
is that there is an end to the story, meaning there's trials and tribulations, but at this point,

858
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:31,920
there will be a consummation. There is an end to the epoch. And so do you believe that once we've

859
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:36,320
made the shift, that's going to be the future state, or do you think there's going to be another

860
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:41,440
cycle of this all over again, kind of like Hinduism and Zoroastrianism seems like there's

861
01:23:41,440 --> 01:23:46,800
always a perpetual battle? If you really want to know what the finish line looks like. So again,

862
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:53,280
there's a clump of humans or consciousnesses existing, energies. There's more than we can see.

863
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:58,400
Everything that's in existence in a certain age, there's a sifting process that happens.

864
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:06,960
Some of it ascends to another matrix, another womb. Some of it has to recycle and continue

865
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:14,400
working through stuff. Now, once certain parts, once certain fractals of source have worked their

866
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:20,720
way back into source, the game is over once every single ounce of energy has gone through enough

867
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:25,120
cycles and ascended back into total communion with God.

868
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:34,480
With the one, yes. And that is eternity, that place where all of everything conceivable,

869
01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:40,080
there is no such thing as no thing, right? There is nothing. People who say space is expanding

870
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:51,280
into what? So the all, when everything, that moment where everything is fully enlightened

871
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:57,520
and ascended and looking through the eyes of God, that's the eternity of what you could call heaven

872
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:05,600
or God consciousness. And then from there, the all, which is now one, can reconcile all of experience

873
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:11,760
and sit in its own meditation of silence with itself until God wants to do it again.

874
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:16,880
Yes. And Jonathan, this ties perfectly in a universalist framework where, you know,

875
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:19,600
in universalism, I don't know if you're familiar with Christian universalism,

876
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:25,920
but it's where God's love transcends man's stupidity. And ultimately everyone will be

877
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:32,000
reconciled to that nurturing over time, over eon, over epochs, right? So this is good news.

878
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:39,680
This is good news. Yeah, the lake of fire, there's no eternal damnation. There is weeping

879
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:47,120
and gnashing of teeth for the moment a soul comes unto true conviction where that all of a sudden,

880
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:53,920
they gain a full grasp of the truth and they also gain a full grasp of what they themselves have

881
01:25:53,920 --> 01:26:01,520
been choosing to do. So they themselves experience hell through their own guilt and shame and lack.

882
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:07,760
And a lot of times that's a cycle to grow through, but for those souls that have done so much that

883
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:13,440
it's irredeemable, that is also part of like, there's a truth and there's a symbolism, but the

884
01:26:13,440 --> 01:26:20,400
truth of the Christ consciousness dying and going into that place to be the hand to guide out of the

885
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:25,760
utter darkness, those who otherwise could never give themselves the permission or see the way out.

886
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:34,800
So at all levels, the process is it in folding on itself and moving itself up. So yes, universal,

887
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:41,760
the, that concept is, and this is not stuff I'm not a big reader, because I don't want to accidentally

888
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:50,080
regurgitate doctrine. I sit and listen and this is the experience I've been given.

889
01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:58,880
It's magnificent. I've got goosebumps right now, man. I think this has been a profound conversation

890
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:07,120
and it's incredible. We say that a lot. Wow. Grandma says this is best Thanksgiving ever every

891
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:12,560
year. And it's like, wow, it's like this, this was, this was amazing and an absolute honor and a

892
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:19,360
privilege to meld with you on this. I love it. I'm looking forward to our next chat. Yeah, this is

893
01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:23,760
amazing. Yeah. So we're going to do, we've already decided we're going to do a part two for listeners

894
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:29,040
who are aware we're going to do this pretty quickly. But, Kleber, and this has been one of the most

895
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:33,920
fascinating conversations because we got to dive into a lot of things that we care about, but that

896
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:40,480
you care about as well. And I think this has been a very eye opening conversation because I always

897
01:27:40,480 --> 01:27:45,120
love being surprised by new ideas and you have a lot of amazing ideas and a lot of awareness.

898
01:27:46,160 --> 01:27:51,680
So I look forward to our next conversation. So thank you for joining us. We really appreciate

899
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:57,680
that. Thank you guys. Looking forward to it. Yeah. So to all of our listeners, thank you for

900
01:27:57,680 --> 01:28:04,880
listening. Please subscribe and review, comment. We're also on YouTube, so find us there. Would

901
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:10,160
love to interact with you. If you have a suggestion for a guest, please let us know. There's a form on

902
01:28:10,160 --> 01:28:15,440
our website, livinginthematrix.ai and really looking forward to where the next year is going. But

903
01:28:15,440 --> 01:28:23,840
this has been such a great way to bring in December. Yeah, absolutely. So thank you everybody for

904
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:28,640
listening. We wish you the best and we will see you in a week. Much love everybody.