So welcome everybody. This is the 24th hour of the 24 hour Frog Talk Nest.
We're joined with the Stemster team and with a special guest Ron Stoner.
Welcome everybody. Thank you for being here. Thank you for joining us on our last hour of this amazing nest.
As you can tell from my voice, I am very tired and I will remind the audience down below, we have 42 people here,
that this is for a great cause. This is for the further development of the nest.
And we'd love for you to donate to Semisoul because he's a cat and he gets distracted sometimes.
But Sats bring him back to the goal.
So please click that donate with the little frog emoji and let's get to building.
Thank you guys. Yeah, take it away guys.
This is open format to whatever you guys want to talk about.
It doesn't have to follow any specific set of rules.
You guys could just simply, if you want questions, we could ask questions.
But if you want to just talk a little bit about your backgrounds and what you currently have going on, that's awesome.
Yeah, I'll leave it. Go ahead. Ron, go ahead. No, Ron.
Sure. Thank you. And I said it before. I'll say it again. Thank you to Sleepy for running this.
Thank you to the Stemster team for graciously sharing their time with me.
I'm Ron Stoner. I'm very involved with Gnoster. I'm the owner of stoner.com, the Stoner Relay.
And in my nine to five on the head of security over at CASA, where we're protecting Bitcoin and digital assets with multi signature technology.
Prior to that, I was with ShapeShift kind of in the old school days before they decentralized into a DAO and some other work in the industry.
And specific to Gnoster, the things I'm really excited about working on is I created a Gnoster IRC client using Python.
I just really love that old school kind of text stream experience. Very pure, very old school feeling and nostalgic.
I did some work supporting the ESP32 S3 flavor of the Gnoster hardware signing device.
And I'm actually using that right now with NIP7 and ESP32 to log into the chat, as well as this this nest, you know, no private key needed.
And I really think that's where everything's going and everybody should be adopting that.
And then most recently, I won the Bitcoin hackathon at MIT with my team with a product called Munster, where we're doing MuSig multi signature Bitcoin transactions over the Gnoster network.
So very new, very exciting and hope to see a lot of work there over the next couple of weeks and months.
Yo, I got a question, Ron. Yeah, go ahead, Ron.
Can you say more about the like a multi SIG Bitcoin transactions over Gnoster? I like I'll give context for it.
So day job, catch up. And we are an exchange.
We are, you know, so much of our team's work relates to like dealing with on ramps and off ramps from Fiat.
And I'm like super interested in, you know, like a peer to peer model.
And I'm I'm really curious about like your experience with Gnoster and and Bitcoin and like moving, moving Bitcoin through it.
I don't think that's the right way of saying it. But like, you know, I guess the relationship between Gnoster and Bitcoin and the multi SIG that you worked on.
Can you just say more about it? And like, I'm not extremely technical in this area.
And so I'm just kind of curious about it more from like a from like a product or experience standpoint.
But I'd love to hear kind of what you're jamming on. I can I can talk about it very high level and very quickly because I want to make sure we have some time for the other parts of the discussion as well.
But you're spot on with that. And, you know, there's different levels of security for different use cases. Right.
Some people are OK keeping a small amount of funds in the hot wallet. Some people go cold storage.
And every time you take a step in that journey, you're increasing kind of your level of security.
But security is always a trade off of security versus convenience. Right.
So when we're talking about something like multi signature, it's just you want to think of it like a check. Right.
And instead of signing your name to post the check and have it sent to somebody and they can spend it, you need three signatures.
Right. Three of five potential signatures, for example.
And in order to do that, you actually have to coordinate. And that's where NOSTA really is shining in my experience is that, you know, typical multi signature today, you have to go to three different geographical locations and reconstruct the key set to spend the funds.
But with NOSTA, we can do some very interesting things where we can actually transmit those partially signed Bitcoin transactions over the NOSTA network.
And it gets really interesting where we can do things like encryption using the public and private keys or even custom event types and custom relays that are just facilitating the movement of these transactions for different signers and coordinators and endpoints to take action on it.
And because you're never exposing a private key or pushing that out on the network, you're regaining that control of security.
But NOSTA adds that additional benefit of privacy. And the other thing that Munster does that's really cool is it takes advantage of a lot of the taproot enhancements that are out there for Bitcoin.
And we can do things like, you know, there's still ways to do chain analysis on a Bitcoin transaction or a multi signature transaction to determine different factors about the key set or how the transaction was crafted and generated.
With taproot, they all look the same on chain and we were able to prove that. So it's actually a more secure and private process.
But because it's groundbreaking and kind of new, we're still kind of blazing that path to figure out what does this look like?
Do we need a NIP for this? Do we need custom event types?
You know, how do we do the DM type encryption on these transaction payloads so that it's all encrypted over the wire and people can't see that you're sending a Bitcoin, a PSPT essentially, a partially signed Bitcoin transaction?
Hell yeah, man. Thank you for taking the time to explain that.
Yeah, no worries. Thank you for inquiring more.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, great work.
Cool. Yo, Stemster team, you want me to give a little bit of intro about what we're doing?
Go for it.
Cool. So Sleep, Tano and anybody else, if you guys have any questions, just holler them out.
You know, Stemster is all about like, you know, we say it's like the place where music gets made. And essentially like we're using Noster as the backbone to allow artists to come together and collaborate, like, like absolutely frictionless collaboration where, you know, it's happening right now.
We're in a development environment, but we see people like coming in, producers who are coming in and posting beats, rappers who are coming in, rapping on the beats, other rappers who are pulling that down, adding a second verse, other producers who are flipping it, vocalists who are coming in and laying down vocals.
And so it's like really interesting to see this kind of emergence of like the social experience meets Bitcoin meets music. And we're hype about it. And so like myself and Henry and Rob and Ben and even other contributors, like we call them friends of Stemster, like have been just doing it for the last last few months.
And it's been awesome. So we're we're hyped to be able to be here and talk with you guys about it and answer any questions. Totally an open book. We're fully open source. Design is open source. Engineering is all open source. Everything. So, you know, we're here to be a part of the community and just like make something really cool happen.
I'm actually curious regarding the platform. Will there also be like a place for you to like meet other people in terms of like, let's say you're a band looking for a guitarist and you and somebody that is a guitarist and looking for a band.
May they have like a place to meet up and like request that?
You mean in person or like virtually?
No, virtually. I mean like on Stemster.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, in the earliest versions of designs, we have hashtags. And so say a guitarist comes in and we had somebody sign up in our beta who is like a live musician.
I think they do. I think they're a drummer. But let's say they were a guitarist. Henry probably fits this mold actually. You know, he puts up guitar riffs. He tags it with guitar, guitar riff, whatever that may be, the style of it.
And then, you know, if there's a band who is looking for it, they can look at that hashtag or they can just like write a note and be like, yo, looking for a guitarist and even put up music that they're like, hey, this is the track.
It's missing guitar. We're looking for it. And so that kind of collaboration is something that we think is like this perfect tool for it.
Yeah, I think like one of the ways to sort of talk about like, we're still kind of, I think we're still kind of finding, we're not really sure what Stemster is exactly.
One of the ways that we've kind of talked about it is like, we're kind of like creating like a digital studio, like a place where you can just log on. And it's like you're in a studio with, you know, hundreds of other musicians, producers, vocalists, lyricists, like anyone involved in the music creation process.
Yeah, that's how you can think of it really.
What do we do with the final composition? So I'm in a band, I've got an album already. I'm envisioning we could split that up into different tracks and clips and allow people to source from that or even potentially remix, right? I could envision that.
Once we have the final product, is that something Stemster will host or market or is that for other markets at that point?
Yeah, right now, and we're not really thinking in terms of like being like a music streaming service like Spotify or that kind of thing. And there's already people on Oscar building that kind of thing.
There's wave lakes, it predates all of this. And then Pablo is working on Zappster too, which is really supposed to be like a like a NOSTER based streaming service. And then I think Jack's been talking about wanting to somehow integrate NOSTER with Tidal as well.
So I think that kind of market is already, I don't know if we need to really go into that. I think it's probably better for us to just focus on the creation process.
I can add to it. Yeah, I can add to it. I mean, like the tagline that we use is like where the music is made. And we always think about that like in contrast to like Spotify's titles, wave lakes, etc.
Like that's where the music gets played. And so we think it's like really unique to be in that space that happens before the music gets published, where it's all about collaboration where music is actually getting made. And as these other platforms are coming online, and we're really interested in wave lake, really interested in what Pablo is working on.
I think like, I'll use the word publish, but I don't think it's the right word for it. But like if there is there are a group of artists, even if it's something as small as like a beat, a producer and a rapper who come up with a great track, and they're like, you know what, I want to publish this on wave lake.
Like, we think there should be just a super simple way to be able to say like, yeah, do that now and move it. These words are like web two. So it's wrong for me to say them, but you get the general idea to be like, now this is done, like it's done being made this version of it.
Let's send it out to where it's getting played. And it's just fluid because everything's happening on Nostra. So I think like the beauty of those constructs of where it's getting made and where it's getting played allow us to move between those two spaces really simply.
Yeah, I even think, like I thought about this a little bit. I even think in some ways like if we were to become like a music streaming service, that, I mean that could even negatively impact the app.
Like really if what we're trying to build here is like a virtual studio. I mean, I could just kind of kill the whole, like I'm imagining like, like imagine like a real life studio, if you went there, and it was just like, it was just filled with like musicians, like shilling their stuff just like trying to sell
like that would completely kill the creative process for you. I mean, and I kind of see like us being a streaming service is kind of like the equivalent of that.
Yeah, that all that all makes perfect sense. I can definitely foresee a lot of avenues for partnerships and integrations and ways to move the cool music that people are making and kind of collaborating on.
That's awesome. And I guess are you guys using like what event types that's interesting to me how you're, you're doing the clips and kind of putting that all together.
Yes, this is, this is still like pretty up in the air.
We've actually traded our own event type. The reason for that is because from a technical like, we could have just like, you know, put an audio download link in the note right just like people put an image down the league.
So, this is all, it's kind of like, we're still kind of working out what like what exactly stemster is so it's none of this is set in stone but like one of the ideas that rock out at the beginning, it was like, I don't know if you all are familiar with splice,
but it's like, it's basically an app that producers go to to down like by like sound packs and stuff from other producers to use in their music.
And so that was like one potential use case of stemster that that we're thinking about implementing and to do that, it's like, well now we have to, we have to like, you know, like, like basically safeguard the file somehow right I mean we, they can't just be free to download
otherwise how are you going to put a paywall on that.
So like, kind of approach we're taking at least at this moment, which is subject to change but the, like, on the notes. It's like, you can stream, stream the files, like just like you'd stream in Spotify.
And that's different from downloading the file right like streaming it's like you're downloading the file and like in small chunks as you're listening to it. So it's like you can't actually download until you like pay like the, you know, 10 sats or whatever.
And because of that, like we there was there was no.
There's nothing in the master protocol right now that deals with streaming content you know like YouTube or Netflix or that kind of thing.
We invented our own note type called kind 1808.
And yeah of course that comes from like an 808.
And what that event is, and you know this is still really like in like beta we're not sure if this is what we're going to do but it basically just stores information about like the streaming protocol and the streaming URL, so that.
We're not going to post this note onto a relay and like, like, other apps like like Domest they're not going to have. They're not going to know what to do with those right away. Just kind of why we like steered away from like just doing like a kind one note because we don't want.
We don't want like people posting content on stemster.
And then it ends up in other clients, just like not working.
So that's kind of why we invented our own kind for that.
That makes sense. That's, we're looking at custom event types to for Munster because we don't want to kind of clog up the social media feed right kind for the chats those are all kind of sacred territory that yeah, you want to leave as is right.
Yeah, I mean, I mean I could see if you don't like for different, or not like mindful about how we do this like you can just kind of like ruin Nostra like if 90% of the content you scroll through just doesn't work, because whatever app you're in doesn't support it.
Yeah, that would really suck.
I had a similar kind of challenge when I was making the Nostra IRC client, because it's text. I had to do things like strip out links and images and different metadata and content.
You know, the lightning invoices that we also I wouldn't be see that type of stuff that was not rendering in the early days, I had to strip a lot of that out to make the kind of client more pure. So, yeah, it's interesting, at least from a client perspective that you know the
client can choose pick and choose which nips they want to implement, and it could definitely see a music space client or different types of clients implementing your event types. But as you said you need that that kind of protection layer right how do you stop people from just reaching
information at the same time. Exactly. Yeah.
I have a kind of an open question for anyone here, even someone in the audience or whoever. Like how would how would you want stemster content to show up on say your Thomas feed.
Yeah, I would actually like it to show up. So I like it. If it were to show up on my feed itself.
I would actually like it to show up on my feed itself. Yeah, I would actually like it to show up on my feed itself. I think that's the kind of thing that I would actually like to see it show up on my feed itself.
Yeah, the one that actually takes me inside of the app, which I don't want. Okay.
You want like an embedded preview of the content basically.
And then maybe like you click on it and it actually takes you to stemster or something like that. Yeah, if I if I were to click on more than just the play button, then I would want it to take me inside of sensor.
Yeah. Right. So you kind of want it you want to see it but not necessarily have to leave, but you can if you want to that kind of thing. Exactly, because necessarily I would just want to see if it's worth my time leaving, whatever I'm doing here.
And if it is, if it's actually that good of a song, then I'll leave. No problem. But I had that option of trying it out.
I agree with that sleepy I think that when you're viewing Thomas the biggest thing that annoys me is when you break out of the app experience.
So, you need to grab people and I think it's what is that that first three to five seconds nowadays with social media attention if you don't grab somebody in the first three to five seconds they're off on to the next thing.
So being able to do that preview or that embed gives me a chance to see do I want to be invested and at that point, you know I'm context switching and I'm into stemster world and going off site or out of app I think is a natural organic experience at that point.
Yo into the into the master chat.io I just posted our DevLink and the username and password. So that's hot. It's a dev environment. That's where we actually have everything happening right now.
So if you guys don't break anything like, yeah, no, try to break things.
You know actually have complete break things. So if you want to see like what what that content might look like from the perspective from a wrapper perspective like what might what like what is actually happening on stemster.
Go there, check it out. You can it's fully usable add stuff you could log in with extension.
You get a better sense of like what we're talking about.
I think Roy is already a stem for alone.
She was.
Hey, yeah, I've been so busy with work but I've been trying to get back into it. Also, I need to fucking buy it since my Ableton push broke.
I'm trying to buy it like a new controller just for the time being, so I can actually make something. Wait, check out band lab, B, A, N, D, L, A, B.
Oh, but. Yeah, thank you. It's on your phone. And it's literally like, you can make music in it, you can even like if you download stuff off of stemster you could you could download it right into band lab and you can record into it, like record like record vocals
into it. It has audio effects for your voice and then you can upload that back into stemster right from your phone.
Fuck that sounds so dope. Sorry for the cursing.
Cussing is welcome.
It's called band.
No actually, we're, we're, I've gotta tell you we're banning cursing.
Oh man. Yeah, yeah, we're pro.
Censored. Yeah, yeah, everything.
The family friendly app, sorry.
I will say like it's incredible I've also, I'm trying to get my, my producer friend.
My brother is also DJ I'm going to try to get him on there my producer friend Po.
A bunch of friends that I mean like a lot of my friends just do music and first I have to purple pull them and then kind of like kind of, you know, get the history but I feel like this is this is how this is how you get this is like the Trojan
horse just send them right.
Like a regular app. Oh, 100%.
Like you don't people don't even know like just upload your music on stemster and then just like, that's so smart. Oh,
the only way that somebody would actually know is like, it's like, it's like sign up okay cool what's your name, what do you want to be called. Tell us a little bit about you like bio, and the only time they would know anything is when it's like generate keys,
and they see a public key and a private key and it's like hey, by the way, this is your password. That's the only instance in which somebody would be like, Oh, this is interesting.
But like, we don't even work, you know, within the master community, we're very much like, hey, this is this is master.
But as we move outside of the master community. That's not a conversation like I posted today.
Like, hey, master is going to be like the most popular thing nobody's ever heard of.
That's success. That's like success for the whole entire ecosystem is that somebody just like hey there's this new music service that I love.
And that's like that's it. They're not like, hey, it's built on master and like, you know, so I think that's a, if there's if there if there is an interesting discussion to be had amongst many like, it's the question about, as we create new experiences
on master and and we're leading with very user friendly experiences and different kind of things. How do we bring folks who are outside of master outside of Thomas outside of snore outside of gossip into this ecosystem.
And remember these folks like they might not even have Bitcoin, but Bitcoin is native. All this stuff and so like, I think that's super interesting discussion and one that like we don't have a lot of answers around but we're really keen to figure out how do we do that.
I think it's really cool that you guys made something that just unknowingly purple pills somebody.
I think that's really cool.
And I'm really excited to grow more. I'm also just kind of like nervous because I really, the next thing I want to do with stem stir is actually do vocals and I've never released any vocals in the public I'm too nervous.
I'm going to do it and I'm just trying to hype myself up lately.
Do it, do it, do it, do it. It's like the safest place to do it.
I'm super supportive. Only place I would to.
We love it we love it. Thank you. Of course, thank you guys for making such a really fucking cool thing.
Can I ask you guys something so you guys are mentioned on band lab right. Yeah, that's fucking incredible app in terms of like its capabilities I've seen somebody literally make a make not not one his song multiple his songs off of it.
He's a kid like he's about like 16 years old and he's blowing up over here.
It's incredible. Like that's a that's a fucking super powerful app in terms of like the shit that you can put on your voice and I don't know it's it's fucking crazy that you guys said that because it's it's a powerful app.
That's amazing. What is it. What is it.
It's band band lab b a n a l a b. So if you go when you guys are on stemster you'll see this rapper man like quecks. He's not here right now but like shout out to big bro man like quecks he's in Tanzania.
He's a great rapper. He's an awesome dude. And he's, and I asked him I was like dude like what are you, how are you, what what's your what, how are you processing your vocals.
And he was like hey my nephew turned me on to this band lab. I was like what is that and he shared it with me and I was like what the fuck is this.
So it's far away this bad here.
Yo, what up bro.
Enjoy. Hey sorry I'm late.
Yo, how's your, how's your head.
It's good.
Hey wait, we can't we can't obviously we can't see you can you just can you describe it.
Yeah, I went from real long to real short.
Hot.
Anyway, happy to be here.
Thank you for joining.
Ben's our Ben's our relay dude. That's our really good Ben we're talking about the band lab if you don't know, check out band lab, but like it's crazy.
Sleep whenever, like, as we're thinking about it.
I have been, I have been fucking saying it to everybody like my brother in law, his friends. I'm like yo, make music with this and share it to stemster because you know if like myself or Henry or Ben or anybody like, you know, old heads.
We have like fucking studio shit like even Royals like oh yeah my Ableton push.
This is like equipment, you know what I mean and these kind of tools that are in apps there's none of that, and you can make music from your phone like make hits. And I'm like hey let's, let's use that inside a stepster and really like, try to make easy for people to make music.
I'm really hyped I just downloaded it and I've been like really struggling because I was like, do I spend like $100 on getting like a simple controller that I can link up to the Ableton and just do some basic stuff with before I make the big purchase of the synthesizer and then this is
really incredible. Thank you for putting me on.
Oh yeah, it's great. You're gonna love it. Wait, wait, do you see the vocal effects, you're gonna be singing all night.
Hell yeah, I'm hyped. I'm actually going to my brother, my brother's having a big rave with a couple of his friends tonight, big DJ, whatever, in San Luis and really hyped to get that entered the good creative juices flowing in.
Oh yeah.
Yo Rock, I just wanted to tell you the rapper I don't know if you listen to rap but the rapper that actually, he just put on a whole bunch of people I don't know I have no idea why he decided to, I guess he was doing an interview and they asked him about it and he's like, I'll just give you the juice I don't care.
And he just shows, he just shows his band lab app, and literally the filters that he uses on the voice and the filters that he would use on the track and stuff like that. His name is Lil Tyler so L-U-H Tyler.
Yeah, will you, will you just like, will you just like hit me up on, on, on master with it.
I got you.
Yeah, share a note, share a note and like, and let's like, I'll repost it and like let's get people to that guy's and for that person's music.
I got you. Yeah, I don't I don't know if he'll need more from us like he literally has almost like 20 mil.
Five months, a little kid using this app.
Yeah, I think it's because like, it just makes it easy to get the shit that's inside of you out. And, you know, that's what's up like that's where it's at. So if we're in an instant feedback to.
Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly.
That's so helpful and like the creative process like just getting feedback from people right away like that. It gives you like a kind of like a drive to take it further like if you post something and everyone's like yeah like this is awesome like that.
That gives you like that motivation to make something out of it.
Also, music, making music is just kind of inaccessible it's very expensive to like make anything professionally and the fact that there is an app and you guys are creating something that just makes that way more accessible for people to feel as if they can do it too, because it is it's so expensive I had to save up literally like
four years to afford the Ableton push. And, like, oh, it's really.
The more apps that that make it accessible for people who have phones already like, and the more like things like stem stir to make it so like oh I can do one thing but like, I don't know how to play guitar and I really want to get to my track.
I want to make it so that maybe someone will do that for me like that's so incredible for people all over the world who don't have the opportunity to afford or even get the opportunity to be able to like get access to anything that creates music it's really it's really hard out there.
Yeah, that's what's up Walker you here.
You just listen.
Yo, I'm here. Yo, apologies. I just saw that I did a scene that Elon responded to a stop the presses.
Tweet so I was just just dealing with that for a sec.
This movement is truly going global. Yo, check out, check out.
Walker check out the link I shared in the chat for semester, but like all the stuff that you, Carla are doing whenever you're making videos or whatever. If you ever find yourself where you're like man like we need a theme, or we need a beat, or we need vocals or whatever
like, yeah we like a sick guitar solo on this like.
Yeah, try stepster for that, like, when we go into beta, which is probably going to be like next week or the week after. Try stepster like make a request for that and see how the community comes through for you.
Honestly, I love the idea and Carla and I have been just peeking at it as you guys have been working on it because like, it's a huge pain in the ass to like, and Carla does all of our like video editing this is like the one time, like she was not at the house so I was like well I'll try to make a video.
But like the biggest one of the biggest thing she struggles with is like okay, need some background music but need to find something that's you know doesn't have a license associated with it so it's like okay it either has to be over 100 years old.
Or it needs to be something that's like, you know, you purchase and or get a mechanical license for it's just such a pain in the ass.
Yeah, yo, try it man, like, in the way that Henry says we're still figuring this out. We're still figuring this out. And so, you know, put that request up there and let the community come through for you.
Yeah, we're excited to play around with it. I think it's a really awesome idea. And again just another another tool of democratizing and decentralizing content creation.
Yeah, man. Love, love, love to have you guys.
Yeah, that's like, it's an important point you just brought up about like centralization, because right now like every kind of everything that it's on center like lives on like our media server.
That's something that like we're thinking about like how like we don't want it to be like that, like where, like we own all the content on the platform.
It's like that. We're just kind of creating the same thing that already exists. If we do that you know we want it to be like as open as possible.
We want people to be to be like well you know I don't want to use stem servers server I want to I want to use master builds or whatever I want to sell post my, you know I want to sell post my music.
So, yeah, that's a really interesting thing to think about going forward.
We've talked about that quite a bit, like as far as our relay is the thing that's currently storing the media, and we've refined that protocol and like simplified it and it's documented.
And it's still a work in progress but you know we've walked through like UI designs of how, you know, a user would basically just plug in, you know, their own media relay, and then all the content lives there.
And it's definitely like in progress and yeah I hope that we can surface that like sooner than later.
I had a question of what, what bitrate or the samples and what file formats are you going to be offering.
Yes, interesting question.
So, the way that it works is you upload we basically support pretty much as much as we can.
So, we're transcoding everything for streaming so that it's efficient and, you know, cheap and works on mobile devices.
And we're basically, you know, supporting wave mp3 at whatever the bitrate sample rate that it comes in at.
And then we retain those originals for download.
And we're not really doing much like compression or anything right now we're just using FFmpeg under the hood.
So, it's all kind of organized in such a way that we can tweak those knobs. But as of today, I think we support like wave mp3, ogg,
about four other formats. Yeah, like that. Pretty much anything that you would use ever.
And then everything comes down as a wave. So, if you go to, Ron, like if you go to any of the notes that are posted that have audio, and you download it, they'll all come down as a wave.
And originally we had it, they were all coming down as like whatever got uploaded. So, if somebody uploaded like a voice memo from their iPhone, an M4A,
it was coming down as an M4A. And you go to drag it into Ableton or whatever and it's like Ableton doesn't know what to do with an M4A.
But when we canvassed like all of the most popular software, everyone knows exactly what to do with wave.
And it's really high quality, lossless, as best as it can be. And so now everything comes down as a wave. And so it's pretty much like a universal file format.
We hope it to be. It seems like it is. So, no matter what you're using, you download it and it should work.
Yeah, of course, Ron has been designing this amazing thing and his design is freaking awesome.
I was just going to ask because I'm having trouble right now because everybody's calling me the central point of failure in terms of what the fucking...
Because I have all the recordings and shit and they want to listen to it now before I go to sleep. So I was trying to upload to SoundCloud and they're being a bitch.
I don't know why the fuck I'm not able to do it. But I was going to ask, will you guys actually let me upload like a whole hour?
Multiple hour podcasts on there?
We had our first experience with this. So we had DJs come in and they were like, can we post mixes? And I'm all hype. I'm like, fuck yeah, you could post mixes.
Go ahead. And I'm not a DJ, right? So I literally don't even know what does that term mean. I'm like, yeah, you could post mixes. Go ahead.
So DJs start posting mixes and they legit crashed the whole service because they were like a hundred megabyte files, hour long shit.
And so it was interesting technically to know that that was a boundary of ours. But then also like from an experience standpoint, the question of what kind of content do we want to live on Stemster?
I think like the best kind of content is shit that people can remix, flip, kind of fuck it up and make it their own in a creative way.
And so if you feel like the podcast that you have, meet that where somebody could like cut it up and make it like an intro to a song or autotune it or reverse it or whatever they want to do.
Like I would say, think about that. So instead of like thinking like, oh, I'll upload like a two hour podcast sound.
Think that it would be hard for the creative community to think like, how do I use that?
But like if there are highlights to things where Roy is saying something important, Rob is saying something important, Walker or Henry or anybody is saying something important.
And you think, hey, this is noteworthy. Like I want this to exist in a creative capacity. That's when I would say upload this to Stemster.
It's so crazy that you say that. We actually have so many, so many things that could like literally be taken out of context from last night.
Fucking hilarious conversations. Very drunk ones.
Rest in peace, Derek.
Yeah. So yeah, I definitely see where this could go.
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'll hold off on to like, you know, until you guys like, I don't know.
I don't want to fucking crash it. I mean, it's pretty fucking long and it definitely crashed the SoundCloud.
I have no idea. What are the limits in SoundCloud actually do?
Yeah, I don't know, but it does not want to do this. So I got to move on to somewhere else.
YouTube.
This is like this is an interesting conversation because it kind of like it gets to like the like the question of like what is music really?
Because like if we're like we're like an app for music, it's like how do you define like what music is?
And like what's interesting is like pretty much any anything that's sound can be music in some capacity.
So it really doesn't make sense to limit anything based on what it is.
You know, I mean, anything could be sampled or, you know, pitch shifted and turned into music.
So as far as content goes, I don't you know, I mean, there really shouldn't be any restrictions on that.
The where there might be like restrictions that I could see would be like in terms of length.
Like, I don't know if it would make sense to put an hour long thing on stemster.
One, because it like cost wise, I don't know if it's worth it cost wise to upload.
You know, an hour long video just for it to like scroll scroll past some speed, maybe a few people see it.
What would be sorry, I was going to say what would really be interesting is a way to actually put it on NOSTER and pay for either the storage or the relay because bandwidth and storage starts to get to be an issue.
But if you were to upload the hour long talk and pay 10,000 sets for the storage space on the relay, you could then potentially use like a NIP 94 file sharing or something that gets rendered in the client to actually share those talks over NOSTER itself.
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
And that's we've kicked around a lot of ideas about how to make this thing effectively self sustaining.
Right. So that if we get tired of paying for it, you know, it can live on without us.
So, yeah, we don't want like long term we don't want anyone to depend on us.
So like paying to upload, maybe based on size, like all those kind of conversations and ideas are like 100% on the table.
We're still really working through it. So if you have ideas, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
Could you guys do like what SoundCloud does with like SoundCloud Pro and all of that?
It kind of is just subscription service based model type thing, which gives you like more of an option to like post like you get to post like a free version would be like you can post this amount and then the pro version like you can post as many as you want, or whatever like unlimited and you just pay a certain amount of sets every month or you can.
Yeah, yeah, we're working through it. We're working through it. I would love to like, get your feet like once you start posting stuff on there I'd love to get your feedback on this exact thing and anybody else like if you guys like start actively using it.
We would all love to have this conversation with you about like, what's the right way to have this thing self sustain. It's not a company. It's all open source.
We don't we don't own it. We literally are like stewards of it but we want to live on for a really long time and it's like, well, how do we do this in a sustainable way.
There's a interesting post by Fiat Jeff recently that says that relays need to have kind of their own brand and audience, and what I'm envisioning I'm already starting to see it is that you'll have your kind of traditional legacy social media, the notes right part of
the stemster relay, and then the other stuff what I envision is you'll have specific relays like music relays. And what I'm envisioning rock and Rob and Henry and Ben, I would love to bring like the stoner relay where I curate, you know, 100,000 samples and link it into
your network, I get paid a percentage or whatever whenever people are using those, and I'm eating all that storage and maintenance costs right and then if you can distribute that out or incent people to host copies or this gets into sharding and a lot of different
methodologies and there's a lot there right I don't want to get into a political battle or an ideological battle, but there I think there's ways to do it as a relay operator, I would definitely be interested in like, can I bring my own stuff to your network, and then that
percentage is on me, right? Ben is excited right now.
I mean, yeah, 100%.
I think that the distribution part you know these at the end of the day these audio notes, you know, if you call them that they are living on a relay, and they reference, they reference the media that's stored somewhere could be on the relay could be somewhere else.
So it's, it's like very native NOSTER. And, you know, if you're a client your web app is reaching out to just our relay or the stoner relay as well. You know if you got the notes.
You got the notes.
And one question we had is like, when we think about like the decentralization of this is like, well, why would somebody want to become a stem to really like, like at what point would somebody be like, yo, I want to be a stem to really because we're really
number one. Well, what would make somebody want to be relay number two or relay number 10 relay number 100. And if you like, if you have thoughts around this fuck man we would love to talk with you about it because we want to make it much much more decentralized than it currently
is. This might seem like very, very like, I feel like this is going to be stupid.
What if like, like you're talking about like who wants to be like make their own stem story like why couldn't like couldn't it be like a musician that wants to primarily use stemster.
Couldn't they be like oh I'm making my own musician center like my own like personal stemster relay that's like specifically that musicians, I don't know if that makes sense to you.
Yeah, it does make sense. It does make sense. I mean I think like we have talked we've had we've had conversations about like, because it's hard, hard to understand this aspect of it.
But one thing that we have understood is like, we think about hip hop labels like TV, as an example where they have a hall of exactly where they have like producers and rappers, and they're in house.
And so I, we have envisioned that somebody's like yo I want to, I want to have a private stemster, a private TV stemster, where it's, it's our relay where we're hosting and where the people who are using it are, you know, all of our artists and producers.
And that's like, we've like started to wrap our head around that and I think it's close and somewhat related to the, to the musician who's like, I have my own relay and interestingly in the earliest ideas of stemster.
When we first talked about this I said hey, can we use something like the IPFS system, where people are self hosting all of this, and they are their own relays.
And ultimately like we do, it was not the right technical solution and maybe even not the right ideological approach to it. But it's still something that's really interesting.
Speaking of TD we need to get punch on Noster somehow.
Yeah, and Cordae's on there. Yeah.
Like what you're going off of like the, like, it'd be really interesting if like a label had their own stemster relay like that. That's really, that's really incredible. I like that. I like that a lot.
Yeah, I think they could, because I mean they're always sharing files back and forth. They're always collaborating and they're doing it with like iMessage, you know, and like sending files, sending a Pro Tools files back and forth so I think they could.
I'm literally waiting until we get to like a solid product until, until we reach out to Cordae and be like come and try this. But that will definitely happen. My goal for this year is to have Cordae on the stemster.
That'll happen. My goal is to get Rick Rubin.
He never posted anything. I like that he has a count though.
Yeah, he made an account and just that was it. I'm going to launch Stoner Studios and try to get Rick Rubin to work for me.
Hell yeah. What?
I have a Rick Rubin hoodie and like everybody, literally it's in black, he's in black and white and everybody thinks that it looks like Karl Marx whenever I go out anywhere.
And it's so funny. I just started saying yeah it is Karl Marx because I didn't want to explain but man it's so crazy. I always forget that Rick Rubin is on Nostr. I'm like oh my god.
Yeah Rick Rubin is man. Rick Rubin is. So these are our dreams. We want to make it happen. We want to put it out there in the universe and make it happen.
That's what I'm saying.
Don you got your hand up?
Nah I mashed it like five minutes ago and it won't go away.
Everyone just raise their hand together.
There you go raising my hand in solidarity with them.
So now, do you guys mind going on for another couple of hours? I have some deep topics to get into. You guys good with that?
Yeah no problem. I think we can handle that.
Is that all?
A couple?
I have a quick question for the Stamster team.
I have a 12 year old son who's a bit of a garage band ninja. He's been playing around for the past couple years. He's been making some trap metal, mixing tracks and so on.
So I do want him to use Stamster but given that it's a NOSTER client I was wondering if you have any thoughts around child safety guardrails. For example, given that it is a client, can they be comments from strange people, which are not necessarily child appropriate that he'll have to deal with?
Yeah that's a great question that I don't think we've really thought of yet.
Avi, you are 100% the first person to ask this and to raise it into our consciousness.
I mean can you share a little bit more about whenever you would think about your son in that kind of environment, what are the guardrails that you would like to see and what kind of controls would you like to have? What kind of experience would you want for him that we can start to think about how to create?
Well I think just general protection from child unsafe content. I mean, me as a shit poster on NOSTER, and a lot of us presumably, we get a laugh out of things like Shao Goel and stuff like that.
But I mean I don't know if I want my 12 year old to be looking at stuff like that yet. So given that it is a client, and presumably these are events that he'll be creating that people can reply to, will they be able to reply with inappropriate things for a child?
In today's world, yes. There's no kind of filters or anything related to that. We honestly haven't even ever thought about this, like what you're bringing up. So I really appreciate the fact that you're bringing it up.
Yeah, I've not even thought of that in the context of NOSTER. I can't even really see how that's possible.
But is it about a concern or am I just...
No it is. It's just kind of like, I don't know. The answer to that question is like I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, Avi, I don't know that it's not about concern. I mean in the community that we have on there today, everybody has been wonderful, everybody's been respectful. But you know, I can't speak for human nature.
Could there be an option where you can toggle it to be more like a censored... not like censored, that's such a bad word here. I'm so sorry.
I should not say that word here. But not like that, more like an age restricted mode where when someone posts something, you can toggle it, whoever is posting it can willingly toggle it.
Oh, like the person posting on YouTube where you can view the check mark like this video is not suitable.
Right, and if you're a parent, you want to go in the settings and you can just toggle it to only ones that don't have that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that. That's like, that's about as much as we really can do. I mean, at the end of the day, like, I mean, kids can find stuff on the internet if they're determined to.
And we like we can create it. Yeah. Yeah, like we can create like a mode that does its best to stay age appropriate. You know, but it's always going to be hinging on like, like they get themselves is going to have to keep it enabled.
Yeah, we can't really stop them from
semester kids semester.
Exactly. We can make that.
Kids.
So hey, let's say your son posts a track. And today we allow comments. I say today, as of a couple days ago we allowed comments. And, like, would you, would you ever want to like filter those comments so before your son could see them.
They have to pass through you for you to say like, which are okay to make it to his eyes. Is that something that you would be okay like taking the responsibility to be. Yes, like, thoughtful filter.
Yeah, I did that will work. As you were saying that rock the other thing that struck me is, it could be an only zaps mode enabled for kids where it's the no likes and all we can have likes but no comments.
But yeah, it's not one option.
Sound only mode, kind of.
Yeah.
Interesting. Is there a NIP for any kind of like a cash app. We, and it's literally like our most to date it's our most successful product where teens have cash cards and can buy Bitcoin.
And the way that they did that is through like sponsored accounts. So parents sponsor their teenagers. Is there a NIP that would allow one end pub to sponsor another and gain certain controls or authorities that could be agreed upon between the two end pubs.
The only thing similar I can think there is a NIP that I think allows you to sign events on behalf of another end pub. I don't think that really accomplish anything here though.
Could you not just make a cash card that's like under like the parents control that like, they can just do it themselves without having to be sponsored or anything.
I don't know what the legal, I don't know like what legal precedent existed that caused that sponsorship model to exist.
But Rock, I think that your solution where there's some kind of delegation event that somehow the comments filter through me, right, before they make him might be the, it probably a bit of a blunt instrument, but I think that would work.
Yeah, you're the most incentivized to like be that thoughtful filter.
Right. There's an interesting thing for this that I don't know anybody's proposed but NOSTER curators, I know you can report posts and things like that but to accept post or to curate content in some way and you got to be careful with this right because again this gets into censorship but for something like STEMSTAR,
if somebody was to post like in the instance of comments I know you said you turn them off. But if I was able to flag the comment or something and get 10 sats for that right that incents good actors in the network to keep it a clean network.
Oh, hey, that's a great idea. Yeah, there's actually there's a poll request for NIF right now that I'm working on with someone else that Fiat Jeff actually said that he he liked hasn't been merged yet but it's basically turning like there's the report like the kind 9, 1984 report type.
And it's taking that in like abstracting it into more a more general label type to where you can create an event that labels to where you can put like whatever label you want onto an event so like I can label this like an event as like say, not kid friendly or something like that.
Yeah, something like that. I mean it's still like it's up to the users to either flag content or like flag their own content.
Well, we will take this under consideration. I really appreciate you bringing us up.
Yo this hour has flown. I bet Tanel and yeah, I was gonna say I bet you guys are exhausted.
You guys ready for bed? I bet bed. So wait, where are you guys in relation to your beds?
Yes.
What?
Where is your bed? Where is your bed? Where are you and where is your bed? Oh, it's like two feet away.
Yes.
Tanel, where are you and where are you?
And I was reporting from the bed.
From the bed. I was just thinking he's in the bed.
Yes.
Already tucked in. Jammy's on.
Oh, I'm tucked in. My eyes are still open.
Well, listen. Hey, we can't do it on Stemster, but like if we could, we would have like a good night thing for you guys that we could craft. But like you guys have been amazing. We're very, very thankful to be the last guests.
Hey, Rock.
It's wonderful what you guys have done.
Thank you.
Yes, it's awesome.
We would like an intro and an outro for Frogzog. Can we make that happen somehow?
Yeah, totally. Yo, go on Stemster. Post a note. So you can post into the main feed with audio or with just text. Post just text. Tell the community what you're looking for. And listen, like on whatever client you're on, you know, share what I shared in the channel to get people in and get creatives in there to get content created.
And I bet you guys will have a great outro. We'll be proud of that.
Once we get like once we get zaps on Stemster, like there's going to be so many musicians that are just going to be creating stuff for like, hey, someone make me a little intro. I'll zap you a hundred thousand sats or whatever. And that's going to be sick.
Now, I'm just thinking about the frog talk intro using like ribbits and it's like, like, I like it.
It's just going to be me imitating the Kermit the Frog.
I like it. I like it. I like it.
Yo, everybody. Thank you so much for having us all tonight. It's been wonderful to like hear all of your voices and to speak with you all.
Yeah, it's like you guys are all real now. That's like, you guys aren't just like little pictures on the internet.
It was so nice to actually see like hear you guys talk. So thanks for coming on.