1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,560 It's open for us to literally just have fun. 2 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:08,320 And everybody that we want. 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,560 Feel free to have anybody else on as well. 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,440 If anybody in the audience maybe wants to jump on and have a chat, we chat as well. 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,240 Because we get really sleepy here. 6 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:23,600 So another person maybe hopping on, on and off might be really good in that sense. 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,600 Just to give them more energy for you. 8 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:32,960 Roya told me she would like help co-host with us during like the 8am hour. 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,680 But I don't know what happened with that. 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:37,920 I think I got rugged on there. 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:39,840 It's all good Roya, it's all good. 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:40,960 I'm not going to hold you to it. 13 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,520 Jack, welcome. 14 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,280 How are you? 15 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,640 Is it morning where you're at? 16 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,080 Yeah, I actually woke up 30 minutes ago. 17 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,800 And it's only been 10 minutes. 18 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,720 Good morning, bro. 19 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,480 What the fuck? 20 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,480 Does my mic sound good? 21 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,480 Yeah, yeah, you sound great. 22 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,480 Mine, I'm pretty sure mine sounds like ass. 23 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,000 I'm not going to lie. 24 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:06,960 Yours is amazing. 25 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:08,960 Not to worry about, buddy. 26 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:10,480 Yo, I'm really hungry tonight. 27 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,440 Do you want to like, because look, Jack just woke up, right? 28 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,800 He has to do stuff. 29 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:20,560 I want to go eat. 30 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:21,360 Do you want to eat? 31 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,040 Because maybe you shouldn't. 32 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,840 Maybe you should like stay here and not eat and just talk to people. 33 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:28,960 I'll stay here. 34 00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:30,080 I have no problem with that. 35 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,600 But you have to speak. 36 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,120 You have to talk about something. 37 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,440 It's recording, remember. 38 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,840 I know who I'm inviting on. 39 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,240 All right, when Jack comes back, take care of Jack for me. 40 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:45,840 Nothing too serious, please. 41 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,840 Yo, Neelung can literally speak for hours. 42 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,120 All right, perfect. 43 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:50,320 He's got it. 44 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:51,840 Neelung! 45 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,760 Neelung, we need your energy, man. 46 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,360 All right, give me one sec, okay? 47 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,040 Tano, please take care of Jack. 48 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:58,240 I'll be right back. 49 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:59,440 Absolutely will. 50 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,000 Guys, if he does anything, you know, you just let me know. 51 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,280 Just DM me or something. 52 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,240 Jack, your hand is up. 53 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,000 Go ahead. 54 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:06,800 I'm back. 55 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,600 I'm sorry about that. 56 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:10,080 You're good. 57 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:10,480 You're good. 58 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,200 I'm literally going to try to get like a little sandwich in real quick. 59 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:15,040 Yo, boy, I'm hungry. 60 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:19,520 Apologies. 61 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,200 You could eat some breakfast as well, Jack. 62 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:21,840 That's no... 63 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,680 Nah, I don't want breakfast. 64 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:24,880 Oh, shit, okay. 65 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,000 All right, go ahead. 66 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:28,560 Go ahead. 67 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,200 Do your thing. 68 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:30,320 Tano, take care. 69 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:32,720 Absolutely. 70 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,920 Hey, Neelung, you're on stage now. 71 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,040 Can you speak or are you busy right now? 72 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,560 Tano, speak to Jack. 73 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:43,360 Leave Neelung alone. 74 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:44,960 Oh, absolutely will. 75 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:45,920 That's why I was curious. 76 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:46,960 Like, I wanted to include him in the chat. 77 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,960 How long have you guys been doing this for? 78 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,640 That's my question. 79 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:53,200 Let me see. 80 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,520 I'll have the timetable right in front of me. 81 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,360 Seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve. 82 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,120 We have 14 times loss behind us, so... 83 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,280 You're in the 15th time slot, so... 84 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:06,640 So you've been doing this all... 85 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:07,920 It's getting Tano wild. 86 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:09,520 The rest of the day? 87 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:11,600 Uh, yeah. 88 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:12,960 Yeah, I'm like... 89 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,920 I mean, my time zone, I started at like 2 a.m. 90 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:18,400 Like, and I've been through the night already. 91 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,640 And it's like 4 p.m. for me right now. 92 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:21,440 Oh, my God. 93 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,880 So my body doesn't really understand anything anymore. 94 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:27,760 Like, what is what? 95 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:28,960 What is day? 96 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:29,520 What is night? 97 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:31,280 Surprise you can think. 98 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,960 Funnily enough, actually, I think that the next one at a time, 99 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,560 which will accidentally fix my sleeping schedule finally. 100 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,560 So, uh, benefits? 101 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:45,360 Yeah, maybe. 102 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:46,160 Maybe. 103 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:46,960 Jesus. 104 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,080 I think if I did that, my head would like implode. 105 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,600 Oh, that's that's already behind me. 106 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,360 Um, I'm really, really thankful for hopping on, actually, 107 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,120 because I think it was with a really, really short notice, actually. 108 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,800 Was there anything in certain you wanted to talk about yourself 109 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,440 or you were just here to chill and... 110 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,680 Yeah, I kind of just came here to chill out. 111 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:17,600 As maybe I could probably talk about something specific, though. 112 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,520 I could think of something quickly. 113 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:21,840 Oh, absolutely. 114 00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:25,360 I think I think we should start off with you actually introducing yourself. 115 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,400 Like, how did you how did you end the finding actually? 116 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,760 Not Nostra itself, man. 117 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,320 How did you found it? 118 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:37,440 So Nostra came to my attention when I was on Twitter. 119 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,720 And this is what December 23rd, probably around there. 120 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,800 And I think Jack posted his locks or his home screen of his phone. 121 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,200 And it had damis on it. 122 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,320 And I was like, the fuck is that? 123 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,160 Because I've never heard of this app before. 124 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:53,440 And it's on this fucking billy. 125 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,000 There's a home home screen. 126 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,480 And I got curious and I looked it up. 127 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:05,280 And I'm pretty sure I found like Nostra and the, 128 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:09,200 you know, like what it was all about in the comparisons to Macedon and Twitter. 129 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,200 And I was like, this sounds really cool. 130 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:20,000 So I got on it and I kind of lurked for I think about a few weeks. 131 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,360 Just I was we were discussing like how to handle image uploads. 132 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,520 Which is actually kind of funny because we all came to the general. 133 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:36,640 Consensus back in January that it's a bad idea to put images right in Nostra events. 134 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:40,640 But, you know, Amethyst developer thinks otherwise. 135 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:52,160 And so I think after that, I looked for like a few weeks and then I made the Nostbin website. 136 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:52,960 Nostbin.com. 137 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,440 So that was like a paste bit replacement, but it was based on Nostra. 138 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:03,280 And I think a few days, like three days after I made it, it kind of blew up. 139 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,560 Because, you know, Jack Dorsey took notice of it. 140 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:15,360 And that's how it all snowballed into where we are now. 141 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:15,760 Right. 142 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:21,920 So now I'm actually going to Bitcoin 2023 because of my contributions to Snort and Damus. 143 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:27,040 And because of my involvement overall. 144 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:29,840 Oh, wow. 145 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:35,440 So you've been on here, I think, like a couple of months, at least longer than me. 146 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,200 I joined that thing in the start of February and myself. 147 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:45,600 Did you know about Bitcoin like long before Nostra came along or? 148 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:46,160 I don't know. 149 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:46,800 I don't know. 150 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:47,360 I don't know. 151 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:48,000 I don't know. 152 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:48,560 I don't know. 153 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,240 Did you know about Bitcoin like long before Nostra came along or? 154 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,520 So, okay. 155 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,840 So I definitely knew like what Bitcoin was and how it worked before. 156 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:07,600 Because the year before, I was actually shit coining with some of my buddies on Ethereum. 157 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,680 And we're making like shitty NFTs. 158 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,160 So like what we would do is we would, you know, you remember that modern art piece 159 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,560 where it was like a banana taped to a wall, right? 160 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:24,080 We would take a picture of that and we'd add like a blue view or like a PQ to that. 161 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,960 And then we turn it into an NFT and sell it for $5. 162 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:29,120 Right. 163 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,560 But we weren't we were just selling it to each other because it was funny. 164 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,680 And then Ethereum plummeted and I was like, this is fucking hard shit because, you know, 165 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,360 each transaction costs like $5. 166 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:47,680 At least the transaction fees, which are completely ridiculous on Ethereum. 167 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:52,960 So I kind of gave up on that. 168 00:07:54,400 --> 00:08:00,080 Yeah, I've been through the whole shitcoining part myself and like having my portfolio go 169 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,520 up incredible amounts and go way back down again. 170 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,280 And here we are, I guess. 171 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,000 But it's a great learning experience. 172 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,840 Like flying so high, crashing and burning really. 173 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:19,520 Because like looking back, the amount of money I've spent just on like ETH gas fees is, 174 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,080 yeah, this is incredibly sad. 175 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:30,720 But I think it's a necessary process to really, really go through that whole circle 176 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,960 and end up back at Bitcoin again. 177 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:35,920 Exactly. 178 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:44,080 And I think it kind of establishes that ETH is not viable because it is no better than 179 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:45,280 the legacy banking system. 180 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,160 If I can do free transactions, except it takes what a few days longer? 181 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:55,680 Or I can have it go instantly for like 97 cents. 182 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:02,480 It's not worth it for me to pay you six bucks for you to process, you know, a $5 transaction. 183 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:02,720 All right. 184 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,200 Half the stuff I was trying to transact on ETH. 185 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:11,840 The transaction fee was more than the actual amount being moved, which is completely absurd. 186 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:15,200 Oh, absolutely. 187 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:23,360 I think what really got me into Bitcoin in that sense was that I knew Bitcoin and like 188 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,760 layer one previously for quite a long time. 189 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:32,480 But I think what really made me open my eyes was understanding how layer two works. 190 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:38,880 Because I think right now Bitcoin, the name and the usage might be mainstream, but layer 191 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,240 two is still relatively unknown, I'd say. 192 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,280 Yeah, not a lot of people know about Lightning. 193 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:51,840 Like most people in financial and even payment specifically, they know Bitcoin, but they 194 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,400 don't know Lightning, which is interesting. 195 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,880 And I think it should be used in more places because it's very useful. 196 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:04,000 The idea that a business can just set up their own payment processor by themselves and not 197 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:11,600 have to rely on like a single other company, like let's say, you know, Dorsey Square or 198 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,080 Fiserv who makes Clover. 199 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,400 That's really powerful. 200 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:25,280 And it could turn into inside like a country, like a whole country could have their own 201 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,200 intranet and they could still have Lightning. 202 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:35,760 In theory, they could be able to have Lightning Network, which is really it's revolutionary. 203 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:43,760 I actually found Bitcoin and I started becoming more interested in it because of Nostr. 204 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,240 Because people here talk about it to death. 205 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,760 I started to actually become very curious and learn about it. 206 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:56,560 And it's a very unique currency. 207 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,360 I don't think hyper Bitcoinization is going to happen anytime soon, though. 208 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,120 At least not in this world. 209 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:15,840 Probably in like, I mean, at least 50 years. 210 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:16,640 I don't know. 211 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,160 That's just a guess that I pulled out of my ass. 212 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,680 But that's how I found Bitcoin. 213 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:30,080 Yeah, I think like that's the route I've really taken for myself. 214 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,120 So it's like, well, it's not really for myself. 215 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:39,440 I'm preparing and doing as much research and helping other people learn just so the 216 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,920 next generation can have it. 217 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:43,120 It's not for me. 218 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,560 It's for the next generation. 219 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:53,200 And I'm just trying to orange pill as many of my friends as early as possible for so 220 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,200 their next generation can be much happier as well. 221 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,480 See, I'm Gen Z. 222 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,520 None of my friends give a shit about Bitcoin. 223 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,520 It's really like I've talked to them. 224 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,520 We're all Gen Z here, I think. 225 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,520 All three of us on stage. 226 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,520 So that's all youngsters. 227 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:25,360 But yeah, they kind of look at it like it's like some fucking that it's a scam, which 228 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,840 is interesting because of the whole crypto implosions. 229 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:35,840 But in particular, some people view as like a Ponzi scheme, which is 230 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:41,840 It's actually funny when you when you let them compare like the Fiat tokenomics and 231 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,720 BTC tokenomics, but you wouldn't tell them which one is which and like ask them which 232 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:47,440 one is better. 233 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,440 We all know what they would answer with. 234 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,440 But I guess I do that. 235 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,840 It sounds like a good advertisement. 236 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,240 So what are your plans for the future? 237 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,240 Actually, like what do you see? 238 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,240 Like, what are your plans for the future? 239 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,240 Like, what are your plans for the future? 240 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,240 Like, what do you see? 241 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:07,280 I don't know. 242 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:13,280 Let's say in the upcoming months, what would you like to see on Nasdaq? 243 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,280 On Zomax? 244 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,880 Well, I think the most I think we do need to work on 245 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,800 Work on UX a lot. 246 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:38,960 I think the way the current app has done it with, you know, easy setup and seed phrases 247 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,120 and automatic NIPO5 verification is actually very useful. 248 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,400 And maybe we should look towards that for 249 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:56,400 Just the general idea of how user setup should go because people people look at this, right? 250 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,720 People set up damas and like what the fuck is a what the fuck is a private public key? 251 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,040 I've never heard of this shit in my life. 252 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,160 So that needs to be worked on. 253 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:09,680 Key management should probably be worked on too. 254 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,720 So it's like idiot proof. 255 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,280 How? 256 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:23,200 I think an interesting idea would be to integrate Nasdaq Connect, like wallets into every mobile app. 257 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:25,120 So 258 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,960 whenever you're trying to log on to a website, you just scan the QR code and it logs you in. 259 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:30,960 But the issue with that is on iPhone, 260 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,600 there's a whitelist for like background activities. 261 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:42,480 So it makes it very difficult for damas to actually be able to implement that properly. 262 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,120 I think we should figure out file file hosting. 263 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,640 Especially with things that are going on now with NIP 94 and NIP 95. 264 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,440 What I saw was interesting by Mike Dillger. 265 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:09,920 I don't know how to say his name, but how NOSTER should should have been like a binary protocol. 266 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,280 Which would have made storing these pictures more efficient. 267 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,320 Maybe that could happen in the future. I don't know. 268 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:25,360 It's gonna be really interesting. I do agree, especially with the setting up. 269 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,360 I think currently when I've tried 270 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,600 purple pilling a lot of my friends who are not into tech at all. 271 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,880 For them, it seems like way too complicated. 272 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,880 Like what is the public key? What is the security? 273 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,880 What is the security? 274 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:46,880 There's so much explaining to do. 275 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,880 By the time they are halfway done with setting their profile up, 276 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,880 they've already lost interest. 277 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:54,880 Trying to explain what relays are. 278 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,880 Most of the people use internet, they use email, 279 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,880 but they don't have to know how everything behind it works. 280 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,880 Absolutely, the knowledge sets you up for the next step. 281 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,880 It makes you more aware. 282 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:18,880 Knowing the common person, not everybody wants or cares to know as much as all of that means. 283 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:24,880 They would like a lot of apps to have a developer mode or a pro mode. 284 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:30,880 Maybe they could have a light mode or a way to go about it that would be much simpler for them. 285 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:36,880 Something like that. I was actually trying to onboard someone onto Nostr. 286 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,880 It took us about 15 minutes to set up his profile. 287 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,880 It was really strange. 288 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,880 We initially generated the key and the no store extension on his computer. 289 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,880 Then we imported it into Damus. 290 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:54,880 Damus just wouldn't connect to the computer. 291 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,880 He would just be like, oh, I'm going to do this. 292 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,880 Then we imported it into Damus and Damus just wouldn't connect to any relays. 293 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,880 It absolutely refused. 294 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,880 We couldn't set up his profile. 295 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,880 Kieran's snort actually ended up saving us. 296 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,880 We logged into snort and we just changed the relay list on the profile. 297 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,880 We added and removed once and updated it. 298 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,880 We were actually able to use Damus. 299 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:28,880 It's weird and it seems like it's not perfect every time. 300 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,880 Now, it shouldn't really matter that much. 301 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:44,880 If I'm importing a brand new key into Damus that has never been touched to set like a metadata event or a relay list event. 302 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:52,880 I don't understand why it wouldn't work the same as just making it in Damus. 303 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,880 If there's a reason, I would like to know. 304 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,880 I could probably put his pub key in. 305 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,880 You guys should follow him. 306 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,880 He's like a big fisher guy. 307 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:12,880 If you post him, I would absolutely repost and follow him. 308 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,880 I think I made a post about it as well. 309 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:26,880 I would love there to be, at least for Damus' client, a walkthrough of setting up your profile. 310 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:32,880 How can you set up your profile pic? 311 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:38,880 Having it guide you through and that also being available for every different kind of language. 312 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:48,880 If I say to my friends to install Damus on their phone, they don't need anybody on their side to guide them through it. 313 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,880 They can do it by themselves. 314 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:56,880 That leaves them the space and the curiousness to tinker by themselves a bit more. 315 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,880 Otherwise, it's just like learn helplessness. 316 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:07,880 Constantly people asking questions on global and there's so much more work for the onboarders to do. 317 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:16,880 I love onboarding people and it's amazing to see people come along and get up to tempo so fast. 318 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:24,880 I think that would make it so much easier for all of us. 319 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:34,880 The problem with global nowadays is back when I was joining Nostr, you could just scroll on global and find anyone to follow. 320 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,880 It was actual signal. 321 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,880 There's so much bullshit on global. 322 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:48,880 Half the time it's a shitty Japanese translation that doesn't make sense in any context. 323 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,880 There's so much crap in there. 324 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,880 You can't find anyone new. 325 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,880 You have to use the welcome Nostr wine, but that's just news. 326 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,880 That's no one that needs help. 327 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:09,880 Now we're in the situation where previously with global, you could shout out to everybody that was on global feed and they would actually hear you. 328 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:21,880 Now it's more of like it kind of feels like Twitter again for new people because they're just shouting into the abyss. 329 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:30,880 If they're not on any paid relays, no one's going to hear them. 330 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,880 That's the problem with global. 331 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:44,880 I think that should absolutely be fixed because new users, it's going to feel exactly the same. 332 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:46,880 I absolutely agree. 333 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,880 With my account, I really got lucky. 334 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,880 I think it was on the second day that I was in Damascene. 335 00:20:52,880 --> 00:21:00,880 I think on global, I found a post by Ma Zin himself saying that he was drinking wine a lot. 336 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:07,880 If anybody wanted to join Nostr without wine, just send him an invoice and he'll pay for it because it was wasted. 337 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:17,880 It was absolutely hilarious as a newcomer, which made me really lucky because I got onto all the good relays and having a filter global. 338 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,880 I made an alternate account, I think it was like a month ago or something. 339 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:29,880 I haven't used it since, but I was just curious on how the process of like, okay, what if I don't get lucky? 340 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:39,880 How long is the process going to be to actually reaching out to somebody and getting onto those certain relays and how difficult that really can be? 341 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:50,880 It was actually, I think it took me like two or three days to get up to speed, even though knowing all the things before. 342 00:21:50,880 --> 00:22:00,880 It's kind of difficult and I'm still curious how much of the people get lost who are maybe asking for really interesting questions, 343 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,880 but nobody's seeing them, which I would really like to know the answers for. 344 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:10,880 Exactly, and I've seen newcomers actually talk about this that they feel like they're shouting into an abyss. 345 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:18,880 By the way, I posted his pub key and his Nblog link in the public chat. 346 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,880 That's my dog. 347 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:34,880 But he has a few posts there and they got this was about probably three weeks ago that we did this and they got no attention. 348 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:40,880 So I was experiencing this experiencing the single hand with his account because we were posting on here. 349 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:52,880 It's actually kind of interesting content and it took me it took me reposting his shit from the actually get any attention, which is an issue. 350 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,880 It kind of feels similar to the shadow bands in Twitter. 351 00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:58,880 You think? 352 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:08,880 Yeah, I guess it's like if you switch the account with the same exact post, it's such a different experience like every time. 353 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:15,880 Even if it's like not necessarily the followers, but it's just that I don't know the realize can make already make such a difference. 354 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,880 And I don't know. 355 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,880 It's kind of it's kind of like pay to play. 356 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:34,880 You know, you have to buy by paid relays to get global feed attention because everyone's going to be filtering out the public relays global feed. 357 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,880 Yeah, I'm still actually really, really curious. 358 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:52,880 Like because I right now I think I have like 10 relays on a couple of paid relays, the Nostra dot wine, really not wine filter relays and the welcome relay. 359 00:23:52,880 --> 00:24:00,880 And I'm really curious how much of the stuff or the events actually duplicate or the notes themselves because maybe a lot. 360 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,880 Maybe some of the paid relays aren't useful at all. 361 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:13,880 But I guess I wouldn't really know. So instead of like possibly missing out on somebody, I'm just leaving them on reading. 362 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,880 I think that's what the filter wine really was trying to do. 363 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,880 But I don't get work properly. 364 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,880 I think the filter relays was really for the wasn't really for the paid relays, was it? 365 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:35,880 I think it was for the public public relays, I think. If anybody in the audience want to correct me, feel free to. 366 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,880 Wait, I just got back in here to talk about relays. 367 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:50,880 Yeah, we're talking about really just the experience of a newcomer, I guess, and how it can sometimes feel like you're just yelling into the void and just like you're not getting anything back. 368 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:59,880 I'm going to I'm going to recap for sleepy. But I three weeks ago, I was setting up a buddy of mine's. 369 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,880 He wanted a blog to post about fly fishing. 370 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:09,880 So, of course, with my Nostra blogging software and blog. 371 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,880 And so we did that. We bought a domain name, set his nipple five, set up his lightning address. 372 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:26,880 And so when it came to actually make his profile, it took us like about 15 minutes to be able to just add a name to his profile and have it stick. 373 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:34,880 Because for some reason, unless you generate a key in damas damas will not accept it properly. 374 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:40,880 We generated a key in the Nostra extension and on his computer. 375 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,880 And when we put it into the damas app, the relays wouldn't connect. It was really weird. 376 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,880 It was like it was like the whole network was down. 377 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,880 So we had to put it into snort. And then it actually worked. 378 00:25:53,880 --> 00:26:03,880 But it took us way too long. We had to figure out image uploading, which was a pain in the ass because didn't work on snort. 379 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:15,880 Kind of worked on coracle. It was it was a mess. 380 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,880 And after we had all that set up. 381 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,880 I mean, I introduced him to Zaps and he thought it was sick. 382 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,880 He thought the whole concept of Nostra is pretty sick. 383 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,880 But when it came time to actually post, it was like he was shouting into an abyss. 384 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:38,880 It was nothing like when I was joining Nostra back in December where you could post into the global feed and everyone will be able to hear you. 385 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,880 Right now, with all the bullshit, all the spam that's on there. 386 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,880 The signal is completely lost for new people. 387 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:59,880 And I think the only possible way that you can build up a following on here now is to just reply to everything you see on the paid relays and hope. 388 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:07,880 That people like what you say and start following. 389 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,880 Damn, I'm still I'm currently still eating off. 390 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:19,880 But yeah, I have I'm curious if if that new really is actually working to welcome new users. 391 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,880 Because I've used it and I definitely see one side filter global. 392 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,880 Wait, but are you talking about like posting like writing to a relay? 393 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,880 When it comes down to the same experience that you had in December. 394 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,880 I'm talking about. Well, yeah, like making posts on your profile. 395 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,880 But are you are you picked up by that new really now? 396 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,880 The welcome Nostra wine. 397 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,880 That that didn't exist. 398 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,880 Oh, OK, I understand now. 399 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:53,880 Oh, shit. Yeah. 400 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,880 Yeah, we were fucked for that little bit of minute. 401 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,880 Like how long was it like a couple of weeks? 402 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,880 Yeah, yeah. 403 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,880 Now sucked. That really sucked. 404 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,880 Now I can't imagine on onboarding experience like that. 405 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,880 When you're literally just screaming into the void. 406 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,880 I can't fuck. 407 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,880 That sounds horrible. I came in in February and it wasn't like that. 408 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,880 Exactly. And the walk is all the fucking Chinese porn bots came. 409 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:28,880 Like, oh, let's let's make porn bots that post to a network with five thousand active users. 410 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,880 Like, ain't that some shit, bro? 411 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,880 It's so silly. 412 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,880 Why the fuck? I mean, I understand, you know, porn is always like one of the first adopters, this and that. 413 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,880 But God damn it. Hold up. Hold up. 414 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,880 Let us get a user base first. God damn it. 415 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,880 Exactly. But the unique problem of Doster is that there's no algorithm. 416 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,880 So it's not like it's even possible for their posts to resurface. 417 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,880 It's entirely time based. Yeah. 418 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:05,880 So if you post at the wrong time, your post is getting lost. 419 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,880 Holy shit. My bad. I coughed. 420 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:19,880 So, you know, I'm not even going to tell you guys about like how much I fucked up in the kitchen making this. But let's just say we're in there for 30 minutes. 421 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,880 Oh, shit. Oh, my God. I was. 422 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,880 Now, yeah, you guys could tell there was something wrong. 423 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,880 Yo, I burnt the toast twice. 424 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,880 I was going to like kill somebody if I burnt it a third third time. 425 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,880 Making toast in the cast iron pan. 426 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,880 No, no, no, no. I made I made the omelet in the cast iron pan. 427 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,880 I had to you know, it took the longest, not going to lie. 428 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,880 Chopping up onions. I took forever. 429 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,880 It shouldn't, but it took forever. 430 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,880 They should make something for an onion cutter like that. Just simple. I don't know. 431 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,880 Well, you could probably find that one of the Chinese Alibaba stores. 432 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,880 And then go ahead and set up my own shop in Shopify. 433 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,880 Yeah, I should go on five seconds and you'll get 5000 ads for an onion chopper. 434 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,880 Let's go. I'll be a user of my own product. 435 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,880 So, yeah, I could definitely like make videos promoting it. 436 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:20,880 I just want to quickly tick tock every ever since they released the shop feature. 437 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:28,880 Every video is an ad because now on the video, it has like an orange orange cart in the corner 438 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,880 where you can directly buy it from the app. 439 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:38,880 And so now you have people that are like they're doing these like product reviews for commission. 440 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:49,880 So when they did day of that, it came out actually, it was more like three days after every ad would be for the same damn product. 441 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,880 Every video would be an ad for the same product. It was ridiculous. 442 00:30:52,880 --> 00:31:02,880 And it kind of makes me think how we're going to handle advertising on Nostra because it's going to be a slippery slope of privacy. 443 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,880 And well, actually, yes, privacy. 444 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:13,880 And how are the advertisers going to get their their their investment back? 445 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,880 Because there's going to I know there's going to be privacy. 446 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:29,880 But there's ad blocking clients for sure. And is it going to be become part of the client or part of the relay? 447 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,880 I bet you oh my God, I struggle so much to just turn on the mic. 448 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:41,880 But OK, look, so honestly, I think the idea that that the walker had for this is fucking incredible. 449 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,880 He's done it to me a couple of times. 450 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:50,880 And every time he does it, I go and I click on the site so he gets like I'm pretty sure he's getting his visitors. 451 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,880 And yeah, other people have told me like, oh, there's an ad on your on your post and his idea was apps. 452 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,880 It's a fucking cool as way it causes advertising. 453 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:04,880 And basically, you put a link to whatever you want to advertise inside of his app. 454 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,880 Simple as that. If you want it to be seen and it's on a popular post, 455 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,880 just make sure you're one of the top apps and it'll get seen. 456 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:21,880 But now. OK, but now you're you're basically whoring out people's notifications. 457 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,880 So what's going with the Zapper bot where you would advertise not your clubs in it? 458 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:32,880 But you're getting value. I get like 600 something sets for every every link. 459 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:38,880 It's starting to add up, Jack. I'm pretty sure you'd be OK with it, too. 460 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:46,880 I just don't want my my notifications feed to be just be all all advertisements. 461 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:54,880 Like what I think is going to happen is it's going to be like this just a constant stream of them. 462 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,880 Holy shit. Oh, man. OK, I'm thinking I think I'm starting to understand what you're saying. 463 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:06,880 Like maybe it'll be like just enough for it to be like maybe the top or the second. 464 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:12,880 And it wouldn't be that have a malice, like the most like the highest app that you got on that post is like maybe like, 465 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,880 I don't know, like 50 or 100 that 100 sets and the post could be like 21 sets. 466 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,880 But with the I mean, I don't know, man. I still think it's value for value at the end of the day. 467 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,880 I wouldn't mind it because either way you're getting zapped. 468 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,880 It just doesn't have that common inside of it. You know what's going to happen? 469 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,880 What is these advertisers are going to start listening to your notification events 470 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,880 on every four or every like five notification events? 471 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:43,880 They're just going to send a one set zap to you right back to the top. 472 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:49,880 Man, there's no one. 473 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,880 Say again, Jack, I'm sorry. 474 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,880 There's no limit on how much they can do it. So they could just do one set. 475 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,880 Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Like it won't be at the top. You feel me? 476 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:04,880 Like it won't be favorable. They could. 477 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,880 They could listen to your notifications and zap you. 478 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,880 Yeah, but like if I'm averaging, if you're averaging right now, Jack, 479 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,880 like let's say you're averaging like 5k sats per post, right? 480 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,880 They're going to have to beat that. You know what I mean? 481 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,880 Let's say the biggest zap in that 5k post was like 3000 something. 482 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:31,880 They're going to have to up it up like more than 3000 to be that comment that got seen, I guess. 483 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,880 Interesting. 484 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,880 You know what I mean? It all depends on like your content and how much like other people value it. 485 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:44,880 Because if your content is like highly valued, then I'm pretty sure those advertisers are going to have to compete 486 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:50,880 with for ad space inside of your comments. 487 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,880 I think we have Chunky Boy Sir raising his hand. 488 00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:02,880 I think he wants to talk. Would you mind, Jack, if I start up a live Q&A? 489 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,880 Let's do it. 490 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,880 Chunky Boy Sir, you're up on the stage. 491 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,880 Hey, hey guys. Can you hear me all right? 492 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:11,880 Yes, sir. 493 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,880 All right. Yeah, I was just kind of going to that topic you just had. 494 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:21,880 I was like wondering if there's a way to just basically you don't see the ads if you don't follow them. 495 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,880 You can configure it on your side. 496 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:30,880 So that way if they want to advertise you, you can block them or not have to even view it, but take their money. 497 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:37,880 I mean, and that also makes them a little more wise to, hey, maybe I should engage with people before just shooting out ads. 498 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,880 Does that make sense? 499 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,880 Yeah, I was just eating some food. Jack, yeah, thank you. 500 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:51,880 But then that would apply to just everyone that tries to zap you. 501 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,880 That hasn't interacted with you very much, right? 502 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:08,880 Yeah, so basically, yeah, maybe they can still zap you or I don't know if you can really block them from zapping you, but that they're whatever they're trying to advertise or show up basically just shows up as money in your wallet. 503 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:14,880 And you never actually see the ad if they really want to engage with you, then they better engage with you. 504 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,880 You're engaging with them. You're saying I'm interested in your product. 505 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,880 You want to shoot me an ad. That's fine. But you're paying for it. 506 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,880 And if and if I'm not following you just by default, you could have that setting configurable. 507 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,880 But like that way that way you're not even seeing it. 508 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:33,880 They're just giving you money. So it goes back to like, you know, you don't have to see it. 509 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,880 So you're choosing you're choosing what you want to see there. 510 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,880 They're choosing whether or not they think you're you're you're engaged with them. 511 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,880 Does that make sense? I think so. 512 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:50,880 So you have to allow them. You have to allow it on your side for you to be able to see what like the note. 513 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:59,880 Yeah, so basically my default setting would be like, yeah, I'll accept ads and zaps visibly for anybody who I'm following. 514 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:07,880 That way, you know, people who are just like spam ad, you know, spam ads coming through, they're basically just filling up people's wallets with with with sass. 515 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:23,880 You know what I think might happen is I think we're going to run into like machine learning models that can detect ads and block them like on device. 516 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:31,880 Yeah, but I'll gladly I mean, if it's a dumb let's say let's say coin kites like decides what ads on and they zap it and I'll listen to those ads. 517 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,880 I'll see what they have to say. And I'm following them. 518 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,880 And so my default I don't mind those ads and they're paying me and I support them because I mean, I'm following them, obviously. 519 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,880 So it really pushes the advertisers to engage with quality stuff. 520 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,880 Otherwise, they're basically have not even be followed by anybody. 521 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,880 And they're just going to be dumping money out there and not wondering why anybody's not responding. 522 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,880 It's because they're not even really looking at it. 523 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:05,880 I don't know, just kind of like an opt out of anything you're not following if you want or specifically, you know, points a certain, you don't have to follow them. 524 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:11,880 But maybe say, I'll accept, you know, visibility to these ads because I like this product. 525 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,880 I don't know. Just a thought. Sorry. I appreciate the conversation, guys. This is really good. 526 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:29,880 It's interesting to think about, like, how do you differentiate an ad between just a comment that somebody might put on your note through a zap. 527 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:35,880 Example, you don't follow them. They follow you. 528 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,880 There may be a new Nostradon here, but they're not trying to promote anything on your post. 529 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,880 They're just giving you a hug and a heart or whatever on your post. 530 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:53,880 And you don't get to see that because you have that turned on where the people that you don't follow, you can't see their zap comments. 531 00:38:53,880 --> 00:39:12,880 So I would like maybe what I would like is like Jack was saying, like maybe some machine learning to detect that it's a link and it's a link to a business or a link to, you know, some promotional product or whatever the case might be that lets you know that, hey, this is an ad. 532 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:21,880 And you don't have to see it like you have, let's say the same thing that they're doing right now for images where it's like sort of grayed out. 533 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,880 I don't know. That's it's interesting. It's interesting. 534 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:34,880 Where images are blurred. Yeah, so the ad could be blurred for you. And it's just a warning that says this is potentially an ad. 535 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:43,880 Like it's not going to say totally like for sure that it's an ad, but it's going to tell you, hey, this is a caution potentially this is an ad. 536 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:49,880 And if you have those toggled on settings where you don't want to see ads, it comes into play. 537 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:55,880 But if it's just an emoji with a hug and a heart, definitely should come through. You know what I mean? 538 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:06,880 So that's where you could start differentiating what's an ad and what's a wholesome message coming in from a new nostrils that you don't follow. 539 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:17,880 You know where it could also go is this reminds me of Brave browser and how they would pay you with their own shitcoin token to view their ads. 540 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:30,880 But what if you could set what if there was like a flag on the there was a property on your metadata event that basically said, OK, I want to see ads or I don't want to see ads. 541 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:36,880 And it was just true or false for ads. And then advertisers could look at that profile and be like, oh, he doesn't want to see ads. 542 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:42,880 Let's not even fucking bother paying him. Right. So it could it could go like that, too. 543 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,880 Yeah, I see both both ways actually would work and kind of add into the first description, too. 544 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,880 Like maybe maybe when that ad comes up blurred, you choose to look at it. 545 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,880 And after you look at it, there's an option there that says, OK, block this in the future. 546 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:03,880 And that way it's just added to your block. And they're just dumping money and they have no idea whether or not you're seeing it or not. 547 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:11,880 And that's that's how it should be. I mean, you know, actually, they might, because if it's good on your actually. 548 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,880 Yeah, if it's going mute lists are public. 549 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:23,880 Like, I'm pretty sure I'm at this users and maybe snort can view your your muted list. 550 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:32,880 So if that if that account is on that mute list, they could probably read that. 551 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:46,880 Yeah. And maybe that's not a bad thing either. You know, but that's interesting. I didn't know that they could read that. 552 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:55,880 William, you're up. My chance. Do you have any questions? I saw your hand was up. 553 00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:00,880 Yeah, I can't even remember the questions now, but good morning, everybody. Hope you're all having a most wonderful day. 554 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:09,880 Good morning, man. Yeah, we were just talking about advertisements through zaps, zappertimes, zappertimes. 555 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,880 I can't even speak anything right now. So, yeah, just take it away. Take it away, William. 556 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:18,880 I'm I'm excited for advertisements. I mean, I'm not really they don't really bother me too much. 557 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:25,880 Like, I mean, I think it's just going to help grow the platform if anything. 558 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:36,880 Yeah. What do you think about that model, though? I'm using zapp comments to embed links inside of, you know, your zaps in order to advertise on somebody's post. 559 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:42,880 And, you know, what do you think about that? Any thoughts? 560 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:50,880 I think that's a good I think that's a good approach. I mean, I think another thing that companies might end up doing is like they'll find people that are like got lots of followers. 561 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:56,880 They might DM them. They'll be like, hey, write something about us and then we'll zap that post like big time. 562 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:03,880 So, like, you might see you might see that kind of as a route that some of them use also. 563 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:12,880 Holy shit. You're right. I'm pretty sure people are already getting reached out for that specific thing. 564 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:29,880 It makes it makes it look the most honest and legit. And not only that, if they do that with even just one person and like they're told in the DM, hey, like, keep this on the down low, then other people will see this and be like, oh, man, he got zapped a million for doing a big write up about McDonald's. 565 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:37,880 I'm going to do the same and hope I get a million also. Right. It's going to trigger other people to try and copycat that popular influencer. 566 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:45,880 That's right. They could potentially drive some organic engagement towards towards them through this style of campaigning. 567 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:52,880 That's pretty fucking smart. Somebody's definitely going to be listening to this and and do it now. 568 00:43:52,880 --> 00:44:00,880 Yeah, and it's not costless. That's the best part. You know, if you want to get in, you're paying money and you've got to make it worthwhile. 569 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,880 Really, really drives quality of I think. 570 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:11,880 And with Noster, since you can't delete anything, people are going to be want to be careful of like what they do end up engaging with. 571 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:17,880 I mean, like, say a shit coin comes by and they're like, hey, I'm going to pay you this much to push our shit coin. 572 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,880 That that person might not want to ruin their reputation because nothing can be deleted on Noster. 573 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:32,880 So like, in my opinion, it might kind of make a little bit more honesty of the influencers, especially the ones that have a greater following that they might not want to lose. 574 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:39,880 Yeah, absolutely. It trips me out. Noster trips me out because reputation, you realize, like I used to think twice before I'd say something. 575 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:45,880 Now I think like five times before I say something because it's like, you know, you that that is it's funny. 576 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:51,880 It's a trustless environment. But but we really the trust is part of the human piece. 577 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,880 And all of a sudden you're like, oh, my gosh, this is this is important. 578 00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:01,880 What I say and what I do is is of utmost importance that I I think critically, which I think is why we see the environment we see. 579 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,880 I mean, it's new, obviously, and everybody's very, very sweet, nice enough. 580 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,880 But you know what I'm saying? Yeah, people are a lot more accountable. 581 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:14,880 I mean, even myself, I mean, like there are times that I've kind of been a little bit abrasive with some of the comments I've said. 582 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,880 And I kind of like later on that day kind of had to apologize for it because you can't take it down. 583 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:34,880 You got to sit there and kind of own your mistakes. And that's what I kind of had to do for. 584 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:40,880 I really want to finish eating so you guys could just keep talking about whatever. 585 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,880 What did you make? 586 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:50,880 Omelet with onions and just toast. 587 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,880 I was like, do something simple and hurry the fuck up. 588 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:58,880 Then I ended up on I don't even want to talk about like the mess that I created in the kitchen. 589 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:07,880 There's water on the floor. Yeah, it's a lot, Jack. It's a lot. 590 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,880 Daniel, you're here to save the day and talk for us. 591 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:16,880 Hey, guys, I don't know if you if I sound like shit because I'm out in the rain walking my dog right now. 592 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,880 But hopefully it'll come through. OK. 593 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:25,880 And I missed the first half of this marathon yesterday, but I wanted to just jump in and say it's great to hear all your voices. 594 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,880 You guys are doing an awesome job. Keep it up. 595 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:35,880 I don't know how you're hanging in there all this time, but it's amazing that you put this together. 596 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,880 Thank you, Daniel. I'm literally asking myself that same question right now. 597 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,880 How the fuck? 598 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:54,880 So I actually had a question for Jack, you know, you and I corresponded a while back and you joined the node fridge group a few months ago. 599 00:46:54,880 --> 00:47:04,880 I was just curious to hear kind of your experience like starting up a node and what led you to kind of decide you didn't want to do it anymore. 600 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:13,880 Oh, man. All right. This is this is going to get. 601 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:21,880 So I first want to start up a node because time I was using loves to Toshi and Alan Tipbot for all my zaps. 602 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,880 And I was like, you know, I want to do this on myself. 603 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:36,880 But I had no idea what I was getting into at the time. So I I get my old my old decomposing HP laptop. 604 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,880 It doesn't have a screen and it doesn't have a backplate on it. 605 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:46,880 So it's just components facing up right with the keyboard facing down keyboards disconnected. 606 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:59,880 And so I get that thing going and install Umbrell and I install the Bitcoin node portion of it. 607 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:07,880 And that takes probably a week to fully sink, which already that was annoying as shit. 608 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,880 Yeah, I remember that first week just waiting for all the blocks to download. 609 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:18,880 It's like you get the 50 percent and you think you're halfway there and it turns out you're like 10 percent of the way. 610 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,880 Oh, exactly. Because you get slower. 611 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:26,880 The bulk of the block chain is all in the in the later blocks. 612 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:31,880 And so after that, after that, I'm like, finally this completed. 613 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:38,880 So I install LND and LND just doesn't work. 614 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:44,880 So I'm fighting with it and I uninstall, reinstall and it finally works. 615 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:53,880 I make my my keep my wallet and I set it up and I'm like, OK, now I need channels. 616 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,880 Right. So I get some inbound liquidity and it kind of works. 617 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:04,880 I send myself some sets and it works and I can send them back. 618 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:09,880 And I start talking to SemiSoul about it because, well, we were talking about it before. 619 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:15,880 And apparently, you know, I need I need four hundred dollars to open a proper channel. 620 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,880 And I'm like, what the fuck is this bullshit? 621 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:26,880 I need I need four hundred bucks to open that two million set channel for me to actually be able to send like a good amount of stats there. 622 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:34,880 I didn't think I was going to need actual money to prop this thing up, which is my fault on the research. 623 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,880 Can you earn stats by using it? 624 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,880 Oh, I mean, not not really. 625 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:46,880 I mean, that's kind of the joke, right, is that you have to invest and it is proof of work. 626 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:53,880 Right. You're investing your time, your energy and your own capital in just getting enough channels open up. 627 00:49:53,880 --> 00:50:00,880 So you can have a reasonable amount of transaction throughput and you don't really earn a lot. 628 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:07,880 I mean, I think I earn like maybe a dollar a month in routing fees and paying way more than that in channel open fees. 629 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,880 That's not even enough for a cheeseburger. 630 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:16,880 Nope. But, you know, like I always say, like we're not in this for the profit. 631 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,880 Right. We're doing this to build the network. 632 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:27,880 We believe in lightning. You think it has a future, then we're supporting what we know is coming down the road. 633 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:32,880 And OK, so after that, it was going good for like, I think, a week, two weeks. 634 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:40,880 And then just all of a sudden, boom, fucking LND decides completely nuke itself. 635 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,880 And it completely breaks. It does not start. 636 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:50,880 And I have to uninstall LND and reinstall it and recover it. 637 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,880 And but now all my channels are forced closed because the node went down. 638 00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:03,880 So I open them back up, get my inbound liquidity back and it works good for two days. 639 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,880 And then after that, I didn't know what I was doing. 640 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:12,880 And I was trying to send I was trying to zap people with Zeus and just in general. 641 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:18,880 It said no route found. I was connected to like Ellen Big, DZ. 642 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,880 There was like one more. It just wasn't working. 643 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:26,880 I was like, this is a waste of my fucking time. And so I just shut it down. 644 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:32,880 So now I have a Bitcoin going right now, but there's just no lightning node because it's it's a complete waste of my time. 645 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:37,880 And I don't have the stats to actually properly run it. 646 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:45,880 I think what you what you're discovering is what a lot of people are realizing is that you're actually running lightning properly is really hard to do. 647 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:55,880 And whether it's the user experience or whether it's the amount of channels you need to open and the maintenance required, it's a big task. 648 00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:01,880 I mean, we don't do this because we think it's easy. We do it because we think it's important. 649 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:15,880 And I appreciate that you took the time to try it out. And hopefully, you know, maybe a couple of years from now, there'll be more. 650 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:22,880 You died. 651 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,880 Daniel, you still there? 652 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:31,880 Yeah, I don't know if you guys can hear me. I'm like outside in the rain. 653 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,880 So I guess I can. No, no, no, we can. No, we can. 654 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:40,880 You're good. Yeah. What's happening is my phone is getting wet and I can't even tap the button. 655 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,880 So I'm trying to do this. I can't do it. 656 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,880 But yeah, I don't know where I left off or where you guys couldn't hear what I was saying. 657 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:55,880 But, you know, I'm hoping that in a few years, there'll be some more lighting providers will be more options available to new users. 658 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,880 Users who want to start up without having to invest a lot of capital. 659 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:06,880 Maybe there'll be some options available, you know, for self custody of lightning, which is extraordinarily hard to do right now. 660 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:11,880 And it's why people are moving towards custodial solutions. It's just so easy. 661 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:16,880 You know, spin up all of the photos you have have lightning available to you immediately. 662 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:26,880 And anything else that takes people away from the ease of use from that initial quick onboarding is going to turn them away. 663 00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:44,880 It's why people think lightning doesn't work because the ones who've tried it, who maybe had to go through the process of getting a node and not experiencing, not even knowing who to connect to to start building channels, they will think it's broken because they just don't understand the work that goes into it. 664 00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:49,880 I was just saying, Jack, who knows for trying. I appreciate that you gave it an effort. 665 00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:55,880 And hopefully, you know, a year or two from now, there'll be some options for you that might make a new year. 666 00:53:55,880 --> 00:54:13,880 Well, what I think is the best option for people right now for people that aren't as advanced as all the node runners is to install something like blixed wallet on their phone, which is it's basically a node in your pocket, but it also kind of handles the channels for you. 667 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,880 It'll open up channels automatically with the blix node. 668 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,880 You don't really have to worry too much about it. 669 00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:27,880 And you can also open up your own channels to which is pretty cool. 670 00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:36,880 So like you something like like Alan tip bot for your zaps, and then move it into like blitzed, or you can move it on chain. 671 00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:45,880 Yeah, I haven't tried that yet. I'm actually now that you mentioned it, I know it's on my list of things I want to explore. I did look into Phoenix wallet. I tried that for a little while. 672 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:47,880 That's got some nice features. 673 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:58,880 You know, it's like you learn with which which apps have which features you need like you can't get an LN URL to pay to you to be sapped on Phoenix or moon. 674 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,880 You can't even do that on blue wallet, you know, until you get your own node installed. 675 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:12,880 So, you know, there's, I think just a lot of confusion, because the lightning space is so fractured fractured or fragmented right now. 676 00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:18,880 I'm thinking down the road like the bolt 12 officially comes out and more. 677 00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:27,880 While it's taking the support it we might have a lot more options. But again, it's one of those very slow moving processes that we just don't have any control over here. 678 00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:33,880 So we're just, you know, building with the tools we have, and it's not easy. 679 00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:43,880 Back when I first started out as pacing invoices into my own URL box and damas know what the fuck I was doing. I was like, Oh, is this an invoice. 680 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:52,880 And yeah, you weren't the only one a lot of og bit corners you've never used lighting before came in and did that. There were some BC one on chain addresses in there. 681 00:55:52,880 --> 00:56:00,880 It's like, no one knew what to do. And in fact, I'll say this like I didn't really understand how LN URL and lightning addresses work. 682 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:13,880 It took me a while to kind of research it and understand what was going on and how the web server handles the request, how it can essentially find the LN URL from the address. 683 00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:31,880 Once I figured that out, it made a lot more sense. And now, you know, I'm able to set them up myself. But until then, I really needed to look into it because there's just so many different options available with different wallets and protocols that you can't always know everything. 684 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:46,880 So, you know, this is the journey where I 685 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,880 Wow, it's already been an hour. 686 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,880 Holy shit we fucking did it. 687 00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,880 Yo Jackie see, let's go. 688 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,880 I kind of handled itself. 689 00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:04,880 This is amazing. I really appreciate you for coming on and you know hanging out with us. 690 00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,880 God damn. Appreciate you, bro. 691 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:13,880 And it was fun. I'm gonna head out to for a little bit because I'm really great. 692 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,880 Appreciate you. 693 00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:17,880 Thank you, Daniel. 694 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:19,880 Have a good one, brother. 695 00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,880 You too. Good luck with the rest of this experience. 696 00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,880 I'll be listening as much as I can. 697 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,880 Alright, for sure, for sure. I'll see you. I'll see you soon. 698 00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:37,880 Yo, I suddenly feel like this weird ass natural high. I'm not, I don't know if I'm supposed to be feeling this. 699 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:39,880 Second, third wave coming along. 700 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:46,880 Yo, it's weird. Isn't it weird how high I feel right now? I'm completely sober. This is weird. 701 00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,880 Yeah, I have the feeling as well. 702 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,880 Thank you, Jack. I appreciate you so much, man. 703 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:58,880 I'll talk to you soon. Yo, this is great. Thank you, Jack. For real, for real. 704 00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:03,880 I'm really glad, really glad you came and hung out with us. 705 00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:05,880 You can move me back down now. 706 00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,880 I got you. 707 00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:20,880 Alright, and ending the...