It's open for us to literally just have fun.
And everybody that we want.
Feel free to have anybody else on as well.
If anybody in the audience maybe wants to jump on and have a chat, we chat as well.
Because we get really sleepy here.
So another person maybe hopping on, on and off might be really good in that sense.
Just to give them more energy for you.
Roya told me she would like help co-host with us during like the 8am hour.
But I don't know what happened with that.
I think I got rugged on there.
It's all good Roya, it's all good.
I'm not going to hold you to it.
Jack, welcome.
How are you?
Is it morning where you're at?
Yeah, I actually woke up 30 minutes ago.
And it's only been 10 minutes.
Good morning, bro.
What the fuck?
Does my mic sound good?
Yeah, yeah, you sound great.
Mine, I'm pretty sure mine sounds like ass.
I'm not going to lie.
Yours is amazing.
Not to worry about, buddy.
Yo, I'm really hungry tonight.
Do you want to like, because look, Jack just woke up, right?
He has to do stuff.
I want to go eat.
Do you want to eat?
Because maybe you shouldn't.
Maybe you should like stay here and not eat and just talk to people.
I'll stay here.
I have no problem with that.
But you have to speak.
You have to talk about something.
It's recording, remember.
I know who I'm inviting on.
All right, when Jack comes back, take care of Jack for me.
Nothing too serious, please.
Yo, Neelung can literally speak for hours.
All right, perfect.
He's got it.
Neelung!
Neelung, we need your energy, man.
All right, give me one sec, okay?
Tano, please take care of Jack.
I'll be right back.
Absolutely will.
Guys, if he does anything, you know, you just let me know.
Just DM me or something.
Jack, your hand is up.
Go ahead.
I'm back.
I'm sorry about that.
You're good.
I'm literally going to try to get like a little sandwich in real quick.
Yo, boy, I'm hungry.
Apologies.
You could eat some breakfast as well, Jack.
That's no...
Nah, I don't want breakfast.
Oh, shit, okay.
All right, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Do your thing.
Tano, take care.
Absolutely.
Hey, Neelung, you're on stage now.
Can you speak or are you busy right now?
Tano, speak to Jack.
Leave Neelung alone.
Oh, absolutely will.
That's why I was curious.
Like, I wanted to include him in the chat.
How long have you guys been doing this for?
That's my question.
Let me see.
I'll have the timetable right in front of me.
Seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve.
We have 14 times loss behind us, so...
You're in the 15th time slot, so...
So you've been doing this all...
It's getting Tano wild.
The rest of the day?
Uh, yeah.
Yeah, I'm like...
I mean, my time zone, I started at like 2 a.m.
Like, and I've been through the night already.
And it's like 4 p.m. for me right now.
Oh, my God.
So my body doesn't really understand anything anymore.
Like, what is what?
What is day?
What is night?
Surprise you can think.
Funnily enough, actually, I think that the next one at a time,
which will accidentally fix my sleeping schedule finally.
So, uh, benefits?
Yeah, maybe.
Maybe.
Jesus.
I think if I did that, my head would like implode.
Oh, that's that's already behind me.
Um, I'm really, really thankful for hopping on, actually,
because I think it was with a really, really short notice, actually.
Was there anything in certain you wanted to talk about yourself
or you were just here to chill and...
Yeah, I kind of just came here to chill out.
As maybe I could probably talk about something specific, though.
I could think of something quickly.
Oh, absolutely.
I think I think we should start off with you actually introducing yourself.
Like, how did you how did you end the finding actually?
Not Nostra itself, man.
How did you found it?
So Nostra came to my attention when I was on Twitter.
And this is what December 23rd, probably around there.
And I think Jack posted his locks or his home screen of his phone.
And it had damis on it.
And I was like, the fuck is that?
Because I've never heard of this app before.
And it's on this fucking billy.
There's a home home screen.
And I got curious and I looked it up.
And I'm pretty sure I found like Nostra and the,
you know, like what it was all about in the comparisons to Macedon and Twitter.
And I was like, this sounds really cool.
So I got on it and I kind of lurked for I think about a few weeks.
Just I was we were discussing like how to handle image uploads.
Which is actually kind of funny because we all came to the general.
Consensus back in January that it's a bad idea to put images right in Nostra events.
But, you know, Amethyst developer thinks otherwise.
And so I think after that, I looked for like a few weeks and then I made the Nostbin website.
Nostbin.com.
So that was like a paste bit replacement, but it was based on Nostra.
And I think a few days, like three days after I made it, it kind of blew up.
Because, you know, Jack Dorsey took notice of it.
And that's how it all snowballed into where we are now.
Right.
So now I'm actually going to Bitcoin 2023 because of my contributions to Snort and Damus.
And because of my involvement overall.
Oh, wow.
So you've been on here, I think, like a couple of months, at least longer than me.
I joined that thing in the start of February and myself.
Did you know about Bitcoin like long before Nostra came along or?
I don't know.
Did you know about Bitcoin like long before Nostra came along or?
So, okay.
So I definitely knew like what Bitcoin was and how it worked before.
Because the year before, I was actually shit coining with some of my buddies on Ethereum.
And we're making like shitty NFTs.
So like what we would do is we would, you know, you remember that modern art piece
where it was like a banana taped to a wall, right?
We would take a picture of that and we'd add like a blue view or like a PQ to that.
And then we turn it into an NFT and sell it for $5.
Right.
But we weren't we were just selling it to each other because it was funny.
And then Ethereum plummeted and I was like, this is fucking hard shit because, you know,
each transaction costs like $5.
At least the transaction fees, which are completely ridiculous on Ethereum.
So I kind of gave up on that.
Yeah, I've been through the whole shitcoining part myself and like having my portfolio go
up incredible amounts and go way back down again.
And here we are, I guess.
But it's a great learning experience.
Like flying so high, crashing and burning really.
Because like looking back, the amount of money I've spent just on like ETH gas fees is,
yeah, this is incredibly sad.
But I think it's a necessary process to really, really go through that whole circle
and end up back at Bitcoin again.
Exactly.
And I think it kind of establishes that ETH is not viable because it is no better than
the legacy banking system.
If I can do free transactions, except it takes what a few days longer?
Or I can have it go instantly for like 97 cents.
It's not worth it for me to pay you six bucks for you to process, you know, a $5 transaction.
All right.
Half the stuff I was trying to transact on ETH.
The transaction fee was more than the actual amount being moved, which is completely absurd.
Oh, absolutely.
I think what really got me into Bitcoin in that sense was that I knew Bitcoin and like
layer one previously for quite a long time.
But I think what really made me open my eyes was understanding how layer two works.
Because I think right now Bitcoin, the name and the usage might be mainstream, but layer
two is still relatively unknown, I'd say.
Yeah, not a lot of people know about Lightning.
Like most people in financial and even payment specifically, they know Bitcoin, but they
don't know Lightning, which is interesting.
And I think it should be used in more places because it's very useful.
The idea that a business can just set up their own payment processor by themselves and not
have to rely on like a single other company, like let's say, you know, Dorsey Square or
Fiserv who makes Clover.
That's really powerful.
And it could turn into inside like a country, like a whole country could have their own
intranet and they could still have Lightning.
In theory, they could be able to have Lightning Network, which is really it's revolutionary.
I actually found Bitcoin and I started becoming more interested in it because of Nostr.
Because people here talk about it to death.
I started to actually become very curious and learn about it.
And it's a very unique currency.
I don't think hyper Bitcoinization is going to happen anytime soon, though.
At least not in this world.
Probably in like, I mean, at least 50 years.
I don't know.
That's just a guess that I pulled out of my ass.
But that's how I found Bitcoin.
Yeah, I think like that's the route I've really taken for myself.
So it's like, well, it's not really for myself.
I'm preparing and doing as much research and helping other people learn just so the
next generation can have it.
It's not for me.
It's for the next generation.
And I'm just trying to orange pill as many of my friends as early as possible for so
their next generation can be much happier as well.
See, I'm Gen Z.
None of my friends give a shit about Bitcoin.
It's really like I've talked to them.
We're all Gen Z here, I think.
All three of us on stage.
So that's all youngsters.
But yeah, they kind of look at it like it's like some fucking that it's a scam, which
is interesting because of the whole crypto implosions.
But in particular, some people view as like a Ponzi scheme, which is
It's actually funny when you when you let them compare like the Fiat tokenomics and
BTC tokenomics, but you wouldn't tell them which one is which and like ask them which
one is better.
We all know what they would answer with.
But I guess I do that.
It sounds like a good advertisement.
So what are your plans for the future?
Actually, like what do you see?
Like, what are your plans for the future?
Like, what do you see?
I don't know.
Let's say in the upcoming months, what would you like to see on Nasdaq?
On Zomax?
Well, I think the most I think we do need to work on
Work on UX a lot.
I think the way the current app has done it with, you know, easy setup and seed phrases
and automatic NIPO5 verification is actually very useful.
And maybe we should look towards that for
Just the general idea of how user setup should go because people people look at this, right?
People set up damas and like what the fuck is a what the fuck is a private public key?
I've never heard of this shit in my life.
So that needs to be worked on.
Key management should probably be worked on too.
So it's like idiot proof.
How?
I think an interesting idea would be to integrate Nasdaq Connect, like wallets into every mobile app.
So
whenever you're trying to log on to a website, you just scan the QR code and it logs you in.
But the issue with that is on iPhone,
there's a whitelist for like background activities.
So it makes it very difficult for damas to actually be able to implement that properly.
I think we should figure out file file hosting.
Especially with things that are going on now with NIP 94 and NIP 95.
What I saw was interesting by Mike Dillger.
I don't know how to say his name, but how NOSTER should should have been like a binary protocol.
Which would have made storing these pictures more efficient.
Maybe that could happen in the future. I don't know.
It's gonna be really interesting. I do agree, especially with the setting up.
I think currently when I've tried
purple pilling a lot of my friends who are not into tech at all.
For them, it seems like way too complicated.
Like what is the public key? What is the security?
What is the security?
There's so much explaining to do.
By the time they are halfway done with setting their profile up,
they've already lost interest.
Trying to explain what relays are.
Most of the people use internet, they use email,
but they don't have to know how everything behind it works.
Absolutely, the knowledge sets you up for the next step.
It makes you more aware.
Knowing the common person, not everybody wants or cares to know as much as all of that means.
They would like a lot of apps to have a developer mode or a pro mode.
Maybe they could have a light mode or a way to go about it that would be much simpler for them.
Something like that. I was actually trying to onboard someone onto Nostr.
It took us about 15 minutes to set up his profile.
It was really strange.
We initially generated the key and the no store extension on his computer.
Then we imported it into Damus.
Damus just wouldn't connect to the computer.
He would just be like, oh, I'm going to do this.
Then we imported it into Damus and Damus just wouldn't connect to any relays.
It absolutely refused.
We couldn't set up his profile.
Kieran's snort actually ended up saving us.
We logged into snort and we just changed the relay list on the profile.
We added and removed once and updated it.
We were actually able to use Damus.
It's weird and it seems like it's not perfect every time.
Now, it shouldn't really matter that much.
If I'm importing a brand new key into Damus that has never been touched to set like a metadata event or a relay list event.
I don't understand why it wouldn't work the same as just making it in Damus.
If there's a reason, I would like to know.
I could probably put his pub key in.
You guys should follow him.
He's like a big fisher guy.
If you post him, I would absolutely repost and follow him.
I think I made a post about it as well.
I would love there to be, at least for Damus' client, a walkthrough of setting up your profile.
How can you set up your profile pic?
Having it guide you through and that also being available for every different kind of language.
If I say to my friends to install Damus on their phone, they don't need anybody on their side to guide them through it.
They can do it by themselves.
That leaves them the space and the curiousness to tinker by themselves a bit more.
Otherwise, it's just like learn helplessness.
Constantly people asking questions on global and there's so much more work for the onboarders to do.
I love onboarding people and it's amazing to see people come along and get up to tempo so fast.
I think that would make it so much easier for all of us.
The problem with global nowadays is back when I was joining Nostr, you could just scroll on global and find anyone to follow.
It was actual signal.
There's so much bullshit on global.
Half the time it's a shitty Japanese translation that doesn't make sense in any context.
There's so much crap in there.
You can't find anyone new.
You have to use the welcome Nostr wine, but that's just news.
That's no one that needs help.
Now we're in the situation where previously with global, you could shout out to everybody that was on global feed and they would actually hear you.
Now it's more of like it kind of feels like Twitter again for new people because they're just shouting into the abyss.
If they're not on any paid relays, no one's going to hear them.
That's the problem with global.
I think that should absolutely be fixed because new users, it's going to feel exactly the same.
I absolutely agree.
With my account, I really got lucky.
I think it was on the second day that I was in Damascene.
I think on global, I found a post by Ma Zin himself saying that he was drinking wine a lot.
If anybody wanted to join Nostr without wine, just send him an invoice and he'll pay for it because it was wasted.
It was absolutely hilarious as a newcomer, which made me really lucky because I got onto all the good relays and having a filter global.
I made an alternate account, I think it was like a month ago or something.
I haven't used it since, but I was just curious on how the process of like, okay, what if I don't get lucky?
How long is the process going to be to actually reaching out to somebody and getting onto those certain relays and how difficult that really can be?
It was actually, I think it took me like two or three days to get up to speed, even though knowing all the things before.
It's kind of difficult and I'm still curious how much of the people get lost who are maybe asking for really interesting questions,
but nobody's seeing them, which I would really like to know the answers for.
Exactly, and I've seen newcomers actually talk about this that they feel like they're shouting into an abyss.
By the way, I posted his pub key and his Nblog link in the public chat.
That's my dog.
But he has a few posts there and they got this was about probably three weeks ago that we did this and they got no attention.
So I was experiencing this experiencing the single hand with his account because we were posting on here.
It's actually kind of interesting content and it took me it took me reposting his shit from the actually get any attention, which is an issue.
It kind of feels similar to the shadow bands in Twitter.
You think?
Yeah, I guess it's like if you switch the account with the same exact post, it's such a different experience like every time.
Even if it's like not necessarily the followers, but it's just that I don't know the realize can make already make such a difference.
And I don't know.
It's kind of it's kind of like pay to play.
You know, you have to buy by paid relays to get global feed attention because everyone's going to be filtering out the public relays global feed.
Yeah, I'm still actually really, really curious.
Like because I right now I think I have like 10 relays on a couple of paid relays, the Nostra dot wine, really not wine filter relays and the welcome relay.
And I'm really curious how much of the stuff or the events actually duplicate or the notes themselves because maybe a lot.
Maybe some of the paid relays aren't useful at all.
But I guess I wouldn't really know. So instead of like possibly missing out on somebody, I'm just leaving them on reading.
I think that's what the filter wine really was trying to do.
But I don't get work properly.
I think the filter relays was really for the wasn't really for the paid relays, was it?
I think it was for the public public relays, I think. If anybody in the audience want to correct me, feel free to.
Wait, I just got back in here to talk about relays.
Yeah, we're talking about really just the experience of a newcomer, I guess, and how it can sometimes feel like you're just yelling into the void and just like you're not getting anything back.
I'm going to I'm going to recap for sleepy. But I three weeks ago, I was setting up a buddy of mine's.
He wanted a blog to post about fly fishing.
So, of course, with my Nostra blogging software and blog.
And so we did that. We bought a domain name, set his nipple five, set up his lightning address.
And so when it came to actually make his profile, it took us like about 15 minutes to be able to just add a name to his profile and have it stick.
Because for some reason, unless you generate a key in damas damas will not accept it properly.
We generated a key in the Nostra extension and on his computer.
And when we put it into the damas app, the relays wouldn't connect. It was really weird.
It was like it was like the whole network was down.
So we had to put it into snort. And then it actually worked.
But it took us way too long. We had to figure out image uploading, which was a pain in the ass because didn't work on snort.
Kind of worked on coracle. It was it was a mess.
And after we had all that set up.
I mean, I introduced him to Zaps and he thought it was sick.
He thought the whole concept of Nostra is pretty sick.
But when it came time to actually post, it was like he was shouting into an abyss.
It was nothing like when I was joining Nostra back in December where you could post into the global feed and everyone will be able to hear you.
Right now, with all the bullshit, all the spam that's on there.
The signal is completely lost for new people.
And I think the only possible way that you can build up a following on here now is to just reply to everything you see on the paid relays and hope.
That people like what you say and start following.
Damn, I'm still I'm currently still eating off.
But yeah, I have I'm curious if if that new really is actually working to welcome new users.
Because I've used it and I definitely see one side filter global.
Wait, but are you talking about like posting like writing to a relay?
When it comes down to the same experience that you had in December.
I'm talking about. Well, yeah, like making posts on your profile.
But are you are you picked up by that new really now?
The welcome Nostra wine.
That that didn't exist.
Oh, OK, I understand now.
Oh, shit. Yeah.
Yeah, we were fucked for that little bit of minute.
Like how long was it like a couple of weeks?
Yeah, yeah.
Now sucked. That really sucked.
Now I can't imagine on onboarding experience like that.
When you're literally just screaming into the void.
I can't fuck.
That sounds horrible. I came in in February and it wasn't like that.
Exactly. And the walk is all the fucking Chinese porn bots came.
Like, oh, let's let's make porn bots that post to a network with five thousand active users.
Like, ain't that some shit, bro?
It's so silly.
Why the fuck? I mean, I understand, you know, porn is always like one of the first adopters, this and that.
But God damn it. Hold up. Hold up.
Let us get a user base first. God damn it.
Exactly. But the unique problem of Doster is that there's no algorithm.
So it's not like it's even possible for their posts to resurface.
It's entirely time based. Yeah.
So if you post at the wrong time, your post is getting lost.
Holy shit. My bad. I coughed.
So, you know, I'm not even going to tell you guys about like how much I fucked up in the kitchen making this. But let's just say we're in there for 30 minutes.
Oh, shit. Oh, my God. I was.
Now, yeah, you guys could tell there was something wrong.
Yo, I burnt the toast twice.
I was going to like kill somebody if I burnt it a third third time.
Making toast in the cast iron pan.
No, no, no, no. I made I made the omelet in the cast iron pan.
I had to you know, it took the longest, not going to lie.
Chopping up onions. I took forever.
It shouldn't, but it took forever.
They should make something for an onion cutter like that. Just simple. I don't know.
Well, you could probably find that one of the Chinese Alibaba stores.
And then go ahead and set up my own shop in Shopify.
Yeah, I should go on five seconds and you'll get 5000 ads for an onion chopper.
Let's go. I'll be a user of my own product.
So, yeah, I could definitely like make videos promoting it.
I just want to quickly tick tock every ever since they released the shop feature.
Every video is an ad because now on the video, it has like an orange orange cart in the corner
where you can directly buy it from the app.
And so now you have people that are like they're doing these like product reviews for commission.
So when they did day of that, it came out actually, it was more like three days after every ad would be for the same damn product.
Every video would be an ad for the same product. It was ridiculous.
And it kind of makes me think how we're going to handle advertising on Nostra because it's going to be a slippery slope of privacy.
And well, actually, yes, privacy.
And how are the advertisers going to get their their their investment back?
Because there's going to I know there's going to be privacy.
But there's ad blocking clients for sure. And is it going to be become part of the client or part of the relay?
I bet you oh my God, I struggle so much to just turn on the mic.
But OK, look, so honestly, I think the idea that that the walker had for this is fucking incredible.
He's done it to me a couple of times.
And every time he does it, I go and I click on the site so he gets like I'm pretty sure he's getting his visitors.
And yeah, other people have told me like, oh, there's an ad on your on your post and his idea was apps.
It's a fucking cool as way it causes advertising.
And basically, you put a link to whatever you want to advertise inside of his app.
Simple as that. If you want it to be seen and it's on a popular post,
just make sure you're one of the top apps and it'll get seen.
But now. OK, but now you're you're basically whoring out people's notifications.
So what's going with the Zapper bot where you would advertise not your clubs in it?
But you're getting value. I get like 600 something sets for every every link.
It's starting to add up, Jack. I'm pretty sure you'd be OK with it, too.
I just don't want my my notifications feed to be just be all all advertisements.
Like what I think is going to happen is it's going to be like this just a constant stream of them.
Holy shit. Oh, man. OK, I'm thinking I think I'm starting to understand what you're saying.
Like maybe it'll be like just enough for it to be like maybe the top or the second.
And it wouldn't be that have a malice, like the most like the highest app that you got on that post is like maybe like,
I don't know, like 50 or 100 that 100 sets and the post could be like 21 sets.
But with the I mean, I don't know, man. I still think it's value for value at the end of the day.
I wouldn't mind it because either way you're getting zapped.
It just doesn't have that common inside of it. You know what's going to happen?
What is these advertisers are going to start listening to your notification events
on every four or every like five notification events?
They're just going to send a one set zap to you right back to the top.
Man, there's no one.
Say again, Jack, I'm sorry.
There's no limit on how much they can do it. So they could just do one set.
Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Like it won't be at the top. You feel me?
Like it won't be favorable. They could.
They could listen to your notifications and zap you.
Yeah, but like if I'm averaging, if you're averaging right now, Jack,
like let's say you're averaging like 5k sats per post, right?
They're going to have to beat that. You know what I mean?
Let's say the biggest zap in that 5k post was like 3000 something.
They're going to have to up it up like more than 3000 to be that comment that got seen, I guess.
Interesting.
You know what I mean? It all depends on like your content and how much like other people value it.
Because if your content is like highly valued, then I'm pretty sure those advertisers are going to have to compete
with for ad space inside of your comments.
I think we have Chunky Boy Sir raising his hand.
I think he wants to talk. Would you mind, Jack, if I start up a live Q&A?
Let's do it.
Chunky Boy Sir, you're up on the stage.
Hey, hey guys. Can you hear me all right?
Yes, sir.
All right. Yeah, I was just kind of going to that topic you just had.
I was like wondering if there's a way to just basically you don't see the ads if you don't follow them.
You can configure it on your side.
So that way if they want to advertise you, you can block them or not have to even view it, but take their money.
I mean, and that also makes them a little more wise to, hey, maybe I should engage with people before just shooting out ads.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, I was just eating some food. Jack, yeah, thank you.
But then that would apply to just everyone that tries to zap you.
That hasn't interacted with you very much, right?
Yeah, so basically, yeah, maybe they can still zap you or I don't know if you can really block them from zapping you, but that they're whatever they're trying to advertise or show up basically just shows up as money in your wallet.
And you never actually see the ad if they really want to engage with you, then they better engage with you.
You're engaging with them. You're saying I'm interested in your product.
You want to shoot me an ad. That's fine. But you're paying for it.
And if and if I'm not following you just by default, you could have that setting configurable.
But like that way that way you're not even seeing it.
They're just giving you money. So it goes back to like, you know, you don't have to see it.
So you're choosing you're choosing what you want to see there.
They're choosing whether or not they think you're you're you're engaged with them.
Does that make sense? I think so.
So you have to allow them. You have to allow it on your side for you to be able to see what like the note.
Yeah, so basically my default setting would be like, yeah, I'll accept ads and zaps visibly for anybody who I'm following.
That way, you know, people who are just like spam ad, you know, spam ads coming through, they're basically just filling up people's wallets with with with sass.
You know what I think might happen is I think we're going to run into like machine learning models that can detect ads and block them like on device.
Yeah, but I'll gladly I mean, if it's a dumb let's say let's say coin kites like decides what ads on and they zap it and I'll listen to those ads.
I'll see what they have to say. And I'm following them.
And so my default I don't mind those ads and they're paying me and I support them because I mean, I'm following them, obviously.
So it really pushes the advertisers to engage with quality stuff.
Otherwise, they're basically have not even be followed by anybody.
And they're just going to be dumping money out there and not wondering why anybody's not responding.
It's because they're not even really looking at it.
I don't know, just kind of like an opt out of anything you're not following if you want or specifically, you know, points a certain, you don't have to follow them.
But maybe say, I'll accept, you know, visibility to these ads because I like this product.
I don't know. Just a thought. Sorry. I appreciate the conversation, guys. This is really good.
It's interesting to think about, like, how do you differentiate an ad between just a comment that somebody might put on your note through a zap.
Example, you don't follow them. They follow you.
There may be a new Nostradon here, but they're not trying to promote anything on your post.
They're just giving you a hug and a heart or whatever on your post.
And you don't get to see that because you have that turned on where the people that you don't follow, you can't see their zap comments.
So I would like maybe what I would like is like Jack was saying, like maybe some machine learning to detect that it's a link and it's a link to a business or a link to, you know, some promotional product or whatever the case might be that lets you know that, hey, this is an ad.
And you don't have to see it like you have, let's say the same thing that they're doing right now for images where it's like sort of grayed out.
I don't know. That's it's interesting. It's interesting.
Where images are blurred. Yeah, so the ad could be blurred for you. And it's just a warning that says this is potentially an ad.
Like it's not going to say totally like for sure that it's an ad, but it's going to tell you, hey, this is a caution potentially this is an ad.
And if you have those toggled on settings where you don't want to see ads, it comes into play.
But if it's just an emoji with a hug and a heart, definitely should come through. You know what I mean?
So that's where you could start differentiating what's an ad and what's a wholesome message coming in from a new nostrils that you don't follow.
You know where it could also go is this reminds me of Brave browser and how they would pay you with their own shitcoin token to view their ads.
But what if you could set what if there was like a flag on the there was a property on your metadata event that basically said, OK, I want to see ads or I don't want to see ads.
And it was just true or false for ads. And then advertisers could look at that profile and be like, oh, he doesn't want to see ads.
Let's not even fucking bother paying him. Right. So it could it could go like that, too.
Yeah, I see both both ways actually would work and kind of add into the first description, too.
Like maybe maybe when that ad comes up blurred, you choose to look at it.
And after you look at it, there's an option there that says, OK, block this in the future.
And that way it's just added to your block. And they're just dumping money and they have no idea whether or not you're seeing it or not.
And that's that's how it should be. I mean, you know, actually, they might, because if it's good on your actually.
Yeah, if it's going mute lists are public.
Like, I'm pretty sure I'm at this users and maybe snort can view your your muted list.
So if that if that account is on that mute list, they could probably read that.
Yeah. And maybe that's not a bad thing either. You know, but that's interesting. I didn't know that they could read that.
William, you're up. My chance. Do you have any questions? I saw your hand was up.
Yeah, I can't even remember the questions now, but good morning, everybody. Hope you're all having a most wonderful day.
Good morning, man. Yeah, we were just talking about advertisements through zaps, zappertimes, zappertimes.
I can't even speak anything right now. So, yeah, just take it away. Take it away, William.
I'm I'm excited for advertisements. I mean, I'm not really they don't really bother me too much.
Like, I mean, I think it's just going to help grow the platform if anything.
Yeah. What do you think about that model, though? I'm using zapp comments to embed links inside of, you know, your zaps in order to advertise on somebody's post.
And, you know, what do you think about that? Any thoughts?
I think that's a good I think that's a good approach. I mean, I think another thing that companies might end up doing is like they'll find people that are like got lots of followers.
They might DM them. They'll be like, hey, write something about us and then we'll zap that post like big time.
So, like, you might see you might see that kind of as a route that some of them use also.
Holy shit. You're right. I'm pretty sure people are already getting reached out for that specific thing.
It makes it makes it look the most honest and legit. And not only that, if they do that with even just one person and like they're told in the DM, hey, like, keep this on the down low, then other people will see this and be like, oh, man, he got zapped a million for doing a big write up about McDonald's.
I'm going to do the same and hope I get a million also. Right. It's going to trigger other people to try and copycat that popular influencer.
That's right. They could potentially drive some organic engagement towards towards them through this style of campaigning.
That's pretty fucking smart. Somebody's definitely going to be listening to this and and do it now.
Yeah, and it's not costless. That's the best part. You know, if you want to get in, you're paying money and you've got to make it worthwhile.
Really, really drives quality of I think.
And with Noster, since you can't delete anything, people are going to be want to be careful of like what they do end up engaging with.
I mean, like, say a shit coin comes by and they're like, hey, I'm going to pay you this much to push our shit coin.
That that person might not want to ruin their reputation because nothing can be deleted on Noster.
So like, in my opinion, it might kind of make a little bit more honesty of the influencers, especially the ones that have a greater following that they might not want to lose.
Yeah, absolutely. It trips me out. Noster trips me out because reputation, you realize, like I used to think twice before I'd say something.
Now I think like five times before I say something because it's like, you know, you that that is it's funny.
It's a trustless environment. But but we really the trust is part of the human piece.
And all of a sudden you're like, oh, my gosh, this is this is important.
What I say and what I do is is of utmost importance that I I think critically, which I think is why we see the environment we see.
I mean, it's new, obviously, and everybody's very, very sweet, nice enough.
But you know what I'm saying? Yeah, people are a lot more accountable.
I mean, even myself, I mean, like there are times that I've kind of been a little bit abrasive with some of the comments I've said.
And I kind of like later on that day kind of had to apologize for it because you can't take it down.
You got to sit there and kind of own your mistakes. And that's what I kind of had to do for.
I really want to finish eating so you guys could just keep talking about whatever.
What did you make?
Omelet with onions and just toast.
I was like, do something simple and hurry the fuck up.
Then I ended up on I don't even want to talk about like the mess that I created in the kitchen.
There's water on the floor. Yeah, it's a lot, Jack. It's a lot.
Daniel, you're here to save the day and talk for us.
Hey, guys, I don't know if you if I sound like shit because I'm out in the rain walking my dog right now.
But hopefully it'll come through. OK.
And I missed the first half of this marathon yesterday, but I wanted to just jump in and say it's great to hear all your voices.
You guys are doing an awesome job. Keep it up.
I don't know how you're hanging in there all this time, but it's amazing that you put this together.
Thank you, Daniel. I'm literally asking myself that same question right now.
How the fuck?
So I actually had a question for Jack, you know, you and I corresponded a while back and you joined the node fridge group a few months ago.
I was just curious to hear kind of your experience like starting up a node and what led you to kind of decide you didn't want to do it anymore.
Oh, man. All right. This is this is going to get.
So I first want to start up a node because time I was using loves to Toshi and Alan Tipbot for all my zaps.
And I was like, you know, I want to do this on myself.
But I had no idea what I was getting into at the time. So I I get my old my old decomposing HP laptop.
It doesn't have a screen and it doesn't have a backplate on it.
So it's just components facing up right with the keyboard facing down keyboards disconnected.
And so I get that thing going and install Umbrell and I install the Bitcoin node portion of it.
And that takes probably a week to fully sink, which already that was annoying as shit.
Yeah, I remember that first week just waiting for all the blocks to download.
It's like you get the 50 percent and you think you're halfway there and it turns out you're like 10 percent of the way.
Oh, exactly. Because you get slower.
The bulk of the block chain is all in the in the later blocks.
And so after that, after that, I'm like, finally this completed.
So I install LND and LND just doesn't work.
So I'm fighting with it and I uninstall, reinstall and it finally works.
I make my my keep my wallet and I set it up and I'm like, OK, now I need channels.
Right. So I get some inbound liquidity and it kind of works.
I send myself some sets and it works and I can send them back.
And I start talking to SemiSoul about it because, well, we were talking about it before.
And apparently, you know, I need I need four hundred dollars to open a proper channel.
And I'm like, what the fuck is this bullshit?
I need I need four hundred bucks to open that two million set channel for me to actually be able to send like a good amount of stats there.
I didn't think I was going to need actual money to prop this thing up, which is my fault on the research.
Can you earn stats by using it?
Oh, I mean, not not really.
I mean, that's kind of the joke, right, is that you have to invest and it is proof of work.
Right. You're investing your time, your energy and your own capital in just getting enough channels open up.
So you can have a reasonable amount of transaction throughput and you don't really earn a lot.
I mean, I think I earn like maybe a dollar a month in routing fees and paying way more than that in channel open fees.
That's not even enough for a cheeseburger.
Nope. But, you know, like I always say, like we're not in this for the profit.
Right. We're doing this to build the network.
We believe in lightning. You think it has a future, then we're supporting what we know is coming down the road.
And OK, so after that, it was going good for like, I think, a week, two weeks.
And then just all of a sudden, boom, fucking LND decides completely nuke itself.
And it completely breaks. It does not start.
And I have to uninstall LND and reinstall it and recover it.
And but now all my channels are forced closed because the node went down.
So I open them back up, get my inbound liquidity back and it works good for two days.
And then after that, I didn't know what I was doing.
And I was trying to send I was trying to zap people with Zeus and just in general.
It said no route found. I was connected to like Ellen Big, DZ.
There was like one more. It just wasn't working.
I was like, this is a waste of my fucking time. And so I just shut it down.
So now I have a Bitcoin going right now, but there's just no lightning node because it's it's a complete waste of my time.
And I don't have the stats to actually properly run it.
I think what you what you're discovering is what a lot of people are realizing is that you're actually running lightning properly is really hard to do.
And whether it's the user experience or whether it's the amount of channels you need to open and the maintenance required, it's a big task.
I mean, we don't do this because we think it's easy. We do it because we think it's important.
And I appreciate that you took the time to try it out. And hopefully, you know, maybe a couple of years from now, there'll be more.
You died.
Daniel, you still there?
Yeah, I don't know if you guys can hear me. I'm like outside in the rain.
So I guess I can. No, no, no, we can. No, we can.
You're good. Yeah. What's happening is my phone is getting wet and I can't even tap the button.
So I'm trying to do this. I can't do it.
But yeah, I don't know where I left off or where you guys couldn't hear what I was saying.
But, you know, I'm hoping that in a few years, there'll be some more lighting providers will be more options available to new users.
Users who want to start up without having to invest a lot of capital.
Maybe there'll be some options available, you know, for self custody of lightning, which is extraordinarily hard to do right now.
And it's why people are moving towards custodial solutions. It's just so easy.
You know, spin up all of the photos you have have lightning available to you immediately.
And anything else that takes people away from the ease of use from that initial quick onboarding is going to turn them away.
It's why people think lightning doesn't work because the ones who've tried it, who maybe had to go through the process of getting a node and not experiencing, not even knowing who to connect to to start building channels, they will think it's broken because they just don't understand the work that goes into it.
I was just saying, Jack, who knows for trying. I appreciate that you gave it an effort.
And hopefully, you know, a year or two from now, there'll be some options for you that might make a new year.
Well, what I think is the best option for people right now for people that aren't as advanced as all the node runners is to install something like blixed wallet on their phone, which is it's basically a node in your pocket, but it also kind of handles the channels for you.
It'll open up channels automatically with the blix node.
You don't really have to worry too much about it.
And you can also open up your own channels to which is pretty cool.
So like you something like like Alan tip bot for your zaps, and then move it into like blitzed, or you can move it on chain.
Yeah, I haven't tried that yet. I'm actually now that you mentioned it, I know it's on my list of things I want to explore. I did look into Phoenix wallet. I tried that for a little while.
That's got some nice features.
You know, it's like you learn with which which apps have which features you need like you can't get an LN URL to pay to you to be sapped on Phoenix or moon.
You can't even do that on blue wallet, you know, until you get your own node installed.
So, you know, there's, I think just a lot of confusion, because the lightning space is so fractured fractured or fragmented right now.
I'm thinking down the road like the bolt 12 officially comes out and more.
While it's taking the support it we might have a lot more options. But again, it's one of those very slow moving processes that we just don't have any control over here.
So we're just, you know, building with the tools we have, and it's not easy.
Back when I first started out as pacing invoices into my own URL box and damas know what the fuck I was doing. I was like, Oh, is this an invoice.
And yeah, you weren't the only one a lot of og bit corners you've never used lighting before came in and did that. There were some BC one on chain addresses in there.
It's like, no one knew what to do. And in fact, I'll say this like I didn't really understand how LN URL and lightning addresses work.
It took me a while to kind of research it and understand what was going on and how the web server handles the request, how it can essentially find the LN URL from the address.
Once I figured that out, it made a lot more sense. And now, you know, I'm able to set them up myself. But until then, I really needed to look into it because there's just so many different options available with different wallets and protocols that you can't always know everything.
So, you know, this is the journey where I
Wow, it's already been an hour.
Holy shit we fucking did it.
Yo Jackie see, let's go.
I kind of handled itself.
This is amazing. I really appreciate you for coming on and you know hanging out with us.
God damn. Appreciate you, bro.
And it was fun. I'm gonna head out to for a little bit because I'm really great.
Appreciate you.
Thank you, Daniel.
Have a good one, brother.
You too. Good luck with the rest of this experience.
I'll be listening as much as I can.
Alright, for sure, for sure. I'll see you. I'll see you soon.
Yo, I suddenly feel like this weird ass natural high. I'm not, I don't know if I'm supposed to be feeling this.
Second, third wave coming along.
Yo, it's weird. Isn't it weird how high I feel right now? I'm completely sober. This is weird.
Yeah, I have the feeling as well.
Thank you, Jack. I appreciate you so much, man.
I'll talk to you soon. Yo, this is great. Thank you, Jack. For real, for real.
I'm really glad, really glad you came and hung out with us.
You can move me back down now.
I got you.
Alright, and ending the...