1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,080 downloads. It's been a little hit or miss for us, for QW and me on our show. So yeah, I feel you, 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:14,480 brother. Oh man, it literally releases like so much dopamine as soon as it happens. It's like, 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:20,000 I don't know what it is. It's like having a post-covid. I don't know how to compare it, 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,720 but it feels so much better than anything else I've felt in a while. 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:34,960 Oh man. Yeah, it's amazing to have you here, Avi. Fuck yeah. You're on the Frog Talk on the 6 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:44,240 24-hour Nest and we're coming in on our 13th hour. No sleep. Just on here talking to you guys. 7 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:52,000 You guys are what makes Noster fucking amazing. And fuck man, I fucking love you, man. 8 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:58,960 You, we have so much history in terms of like how my experience has gone here, my journey. 9 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:05,520 God damn it. It's fucking incredible how you were right there when I needed you the most. 10 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,560 Well, I appreciate you saying that, Sleepy. And look, it's a pleasure to be here. What you guys 11 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:19,920 are doing is incredible. 24 hours. I certainly can't do that. Not at my age, not with my family 12 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:28,560 situation. So yeah, kudos to you. Also, hour number 30. Is this the hour when your brain 13 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:33,680 started melting and I can psychologically manipulate you guys to give me your private keys and 14 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:39,440 NSAC and whatever else? I think that started two hours ago for me. I'm having my second wave right 15 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:44,720 now and I'm thinking about getting an energy drink. So, but two hours ago, if you were to ask me 16 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:52,560 my seat, I'd probably give it to you. Oh man, I'm starting to feel a little weird now, 17 00:01:52,560 --> 00:02:01,760 but I'm with it. I'm with it. Whatever comes, I'm with it. I just need to sit correctly because 18 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:07,840 I'm sitting really bad right now and my back is going to hate me for this. So I'm just going to 19 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:14,800 get ready. Thank you, Avi, for coming on, man. And thank you for saying those really kind words. I 20 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:22,960 want to talk about Plebchain, man. Plebchain, Plebchain Radio, everything you guys got going 21 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:29,040 on right now. Yeah. Fucking incredible, man. I've been there for a couple of episodes and the ones 22 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:34,000 that I haven't been able to be there live, I've been able to catch the recording. So I fucking love 23 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:40,560 it. It's incredible what you guys are doing over there. It's so informative and the way you guys 24 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:46,960 are like, it's getting better and better every single time. Today you had an intro. Holy shit. 25 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:56,640 It's incredible. Yeah. So, Sleepy, so you guys are going to do this frog talk every week, right? 26 00:02:56,640 --> 00:03:03,280 That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. The next one is 48 hours and then just double and pass it to the 27 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:10,240 next one, right? Literally. That's exactly the plan. Well, when you guys do end up doing the 28 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,880 next one, I mean, I don't think it's going to be weekly, obviously, but I'm sure the adrenaline rush 29 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:19,680 from this is going to drive you to do another one at some point. We should try and coordinate. 30 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,920 I think if you guys had started an hour later, we could have led in nicely into your show 31 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:30,080 because that's right when our show ends as well. So we should talk about coordinating this the next 32 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:35,520 time you guys do it. Yeah. No, we definitely should because the way that we planned this shit was 33 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:42,400 ass and I think everybody could agree on that because we've made a ton of fucking mistakes along 34 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:51,920 the way. Appreciate you guys for not fucking booing us. We fucked up so much in terms of 35 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:59,280 all of this shit that it hasn't been easy. We literally, it took us how many days to prepare 36 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:04,480 this channel? Like maybe four days. I think we spent like three or four days, 37 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:12,560 three to four days, like 35, 40 hours of nastiness together. Yeah, look, you guys should not be hard 38 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:17,520 on yourselves. This is no mean feat, right? Pulling off something like this with all the 39 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:22,960 coordination and then the actual stamina of being able to get through it and getting the recordings 40 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:31,440 going. So yeah, look, I mean, you can always be self-critical, but just from as an outsider, 41 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:36,560 from what I'm seeing and all the comments that are coming in, it's nothing but good stuff. So yeah, 42 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,680 you can learn lessons and improve on the next one, but you guys are doing great. I won't worry about 43 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:51,520 it. Circling back to your original question about Plebchain, right? So there's Plebchain and 44 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:57,680 Plebchain radio, which is obviously the related concepts, but the Plebchain itself, I can't take 45 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:04,240 any credit for. So I joined Nostr in that early wave right after Jack posted on Twitter about it, 46 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:11,040 sometime in mid December of last year. And a few days in, I started seeing this hashtag 47 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:18,160 plebchain. And I said, what is this? And then I found there's this guy, Quiet Warrior, who'd 48 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:25,760 started this hashtag. And it took me a while to really understand what this is about. But he was 49 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:33,680 pushing this concept of everyone is Satoshi, right? We are all Plebchain. We're all Satoshi. 50 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:43,120 And we are on a platform, we're on a protocol now, right? Which is completely different from 51 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:48,320 the algorithmic manipulation that we've been facing on Twitter. I'd certainly been there. 52 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:55,600 I wasn't liking where Twitter was taking me. And QW was in the same boat. And a lot of others 53 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:03,520 migrated here were in that same boat. Twitter, the algorithm created in my mind, 54 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:11,520 two classes of users. You had the influencers and the simps, right? And the more of an influencer 55 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:18,480 you became, the algorithm perpetuated that, right? Your posts got, or your tweets got boosted, 56 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:25,280 they'd show up at the top, they'd persist over a couple of days. And then if you were a simp, 57 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:34,240 you'd just be a reply guy or a pride girl on influencer posts and effectively screaming into 58 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:43,600 the void. So Nostra was the great equalizer. And Plebchain, the concept of we are all Satoshi, 59 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:50,560 really encapsulated that well. So I think hats off to QW for coming up with that, with a simple 60 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:56,640 but powerful concept of Plebchain. And he used that and then a lot of others jumped on board, 61 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:02,560 right? To welcome new folks back when the global feed was just raw, right? You couldn't choose 62 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:09,920 the relays. You saw everything. And we'd see Plebs joining in saying, hey, I'm new here. I can't see 63 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,800 anything. I can't talk to anyone. What do I do? So we'd jump in and say, hey, follow Plebchain. 64 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,720 And we'd follow them. We'd interact with them. And we just keep doing that and build a community 65 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:29,280 that way. So Plebchain Radio was an extension of that to take this. Even the posting we were doing 66 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:34,000 was what we like to think of as lighthearted shitposting, right? It wasn't super serious 67 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:41,520 stuff. We were mostly talking nonsense. And he said, let's just take this to audio format. And 68 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:42,320 here we are. 69 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:51,840 That's fucking incredible, man. It's a beautiful fucking story, especially because I saw it 70 00:07:51,840 --> 00:08:00,480 firsthand. I saw the boat that literally came by and grabbed me off the water while I was drowning. 71 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:02,720 And you guys... 72 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:03,760 That's how we found you. 73 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:10,400 And that's how you found so many other people that I've spoken to and I speak to on the day to day. 74 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:17,680 And they tell me their experiences and it leads back to you and QW and a couple others finding 75 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:26,400 them and leading them to Plebchain where the signal lives. So I'm super thankful. Honestly, 76 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:33,600 grateful, grateful for you guys actually taking the time and doing that. But it's not easy to 77 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:40,320 spend most of your time on global just finding pleads and helping them find the way 78 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,680 and answering questions that you've already answered countless times. 79 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:50,720 But you persevere and you do it. So I salute you, man. It's an incredible job. 80 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:58,000 Sleepy, before you ascribe too much altruism to my motives, I was doing it because it was fun. 81 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,000 I was having a good time. 82 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,800 It is a good time too. 83 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:05,600 It's a fun time. 84 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:13,440 It is a fun time. And Sleepy, you had a legendary entrance. I remember that day 85 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:20,560 vividly sometime in early February when I think you had about 15 relays turned on 86 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:26,080 and then you'd ask Will a question saying, is this the right number? And they're saying, 87 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:32,560 no, that's too high. And I think I egged you on and said, no, you can go for more. 88 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:35,600 And you kept going. You went to 103 relays at one point. 89 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:41,040 Oh my God. Yeah. I found those notes yesterday on 90 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:46,320 Nasheed Abed and I couldn't stop laughing because it all happened in the span of a couple hours. 91 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,760 I think it was maybe my first or second hour on here. It all happened so quick. 92 00:09:54,160 --> 00:10:00,720 It happened so quick, man. How something like that could really happen. I literally went on 93 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:05,520 Twitter and I asked somebody as well. I asked, I forgot who it was. 94 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:12,640 I forgot who it was. It's going to get me. Oh, I don't know. I asked him. Yo, 95 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:20,800 because his tweet was the one that I saw and then I saw him retweet the quote tweet 96 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:27,120 to Jack's tweet that Snowden had made. And holy shit, that was a beautiful, beautiful reference 97 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:34,720 that he made of what an open protocol is. So I was like, I need to frame that, to be honest. 98 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:40,560 But at that moment in time, I was like, holy shit, this guy knows how to put words together. 99 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:46,720 This sounds amazing. And I went and I followed and I clicked on there and showed up. And fuck 100 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:53,680 yeah, you guys greeted me with the best entrance ever. Better than KC, to be honest. We can talk 101 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:59,520 about it, but we could discuss it. But mine was better. I had 103 relays on the first two hours, 102 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:06,560 I think it was, and my phone was cooked. All my data was gone, not gonna lie. But yo, funny enough, 103 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:12,000 somebody paid somebody. Remember, we had invoices around that time. We didn't have Zaps. 104 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:20,800 And I said something about that. And somebody ended up being like, I got you or some shit like 105 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:26,080 that. And like, sound like that might have been me sleepy. I think I might have paid your first 106 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:33,680 invoice. That's fucking crazy, man. My phone bill was paid for that month, because I lost all the 107 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:40,640 data that same day. Well, maybe that wasn't me. I didn't pay the phone bill. What? I think you put 108 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,440 an invoice for a couple of three or four KSATs. And then you said, oh, no, this is too high. Don't 109 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:51,600 worry about it. Oh, shit. Yes, that was you. I remember specifically that. Yeah. That was like 110 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:58,960 my, my, wow, holy shit. Yeah, I wasn't expecting nobody to pay that. I was that was shitposting 111 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:09,360 with with with invoices. Back when you can still do that. Holy shit. Thank you, man. Yo, like, 112 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:15,760 holy fuck. Okay, stop talking about like, about you, Avi. Avi, this is your hour. Okay. Let's 113 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:22,000 hear your journey. I want to hear more about it, because there must have been a lot of cooler 114 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,000 shit happening on your around your first day around your first week, because I wasn't around 115 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:33,520 here. I came on. I came on the second of February. I mean, the first of February. So you came on 116 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:40,320 January, you had a whole month ahead of me. That's a whole year. Well, no, I came on December 15. Oh, 117 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:48,240 you actually look at that's like two or three years. Holy shit. I will say that those December 118 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:55,040 and January days were incredibly fun. Because this is global was completely raw and unfiltered. 119 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:07,040 And yeah, I joined in and I think the on the 16th, or the 15th of December was when will had just 120 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:15,600 implemented invoices rendering. So earlier, you did you post a, you know, an LNBC invoice, right 121 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:22,000 into a note, and it wouldn't render as an invoice. I think just around that time, they'd rendered and 122 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:29,280 I remember Jack was like a kid in a candy store. And when that happened, so around that mid December 123 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:35,600 timeframe, he was posting these 69 sad invoices, of course, paying other people's invoices as well. 124 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,840 Very generously. But so that was, you know, the first couple of days was that was just us, 125 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:48,960 you know, we couldn't believe that invoices could render. I mean, now it all seems so obvious, 126 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:54,560 right? We have zaps and we have a zap life dot lol, where we can go and look at look up all the 127 00:13:54,560 --> 00:14:01,680 stats and everything back then it was, we were privatives back then. It's watching an LNBC render 128 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:09,280 into that nice, you know, nice looking invoice was rocket science for us. So we had fun with that. 129 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:15,920 We had these random bot storms that would take up global people started to create figured out how 130 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:22,400 to create bots back then. So we'd have hundreds and hundreds upon hundreds of bots just posting 131 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:30,000 nonsense, right? On global and, and then we went through this phase, Jack included, where we post 132 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:38,160 things like Marked Essay from bot storm of December 18 2022. Let's see what else happened. And then, 133 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:44,240 oh, yeah, then I, I, because we had invoices back then, I came up with this really silly game, 134 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:50,160 which people seem to enjoy, which is the numbers game, I said, look, post an invoice in my reply, 135 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:57,680 with, with any three digit number in it, if I like the number, I'll pay it, if I don't, I'll tell you 136 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:05,280 why. And so, and this game took off for some reason. It was, I mean, we're talking about a few 137 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:11,760 cents here, right? Three digit invoices, but people would post, you know, the standard 615, 138 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:21,040 420, you know, whatever else, of course, the more ambitious ones would post 999. And I'd roast 139 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:26,320 those in the replies. In what I thought was a good natured way, I think the people who received the 140 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:32,400 replies thought so as well. No one got upset at my roasting. And yeah, this game went on for about a 141 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:39,840 week. I do it two or three times a day. I was, it was amazing fun. So that was the invoice game. 142 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,880 The other thing we did in back in the early, I'm talking like this is centuries ago, but it's just 143 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:51,280 four or five months ago. It feels like centuries ago. The other thing we did was we discovered 144 00:15:51,280 --> 00:16:00,800 that Will had a GPT 3.5 bought up there, right? So this is again around the mid December time frame. 145 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:06,800 So people started having conversations. I started a conversation series where I'd pretend that the 146 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:13,680 GPT 3 was my work. So I'd say GPT 3 is summoning you, present yourself at once. And then I would 147 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:19,200 ask sort of in that high-handed manner, this is obviously a game, but in that, you know, sort of 148 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:24,320 very supercilious high-handed manner, I'd be asking it questions about completely random things and 149 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:29,760 then roasting it in the replies if it gave me a nonsense answer, which most of the time it did. 150 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:34,480 Right. So that was fun too. A lot of people were doing similar things like that. Yeah. So that, 151 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:44,800 you know, those types of, just fun and pointless and goofy behavior for me was what encapsulated 152 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,680 certainly December and January, the first couple of months in Nostra. And that's what made it so 153 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:56,320 much fun. I mean, I'd seen nothing like this before. It was, you know, a hundred percent happiness 154 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:02,400 and nothing negative. Didn't have a single negative conversation with anyone. I mean, 155 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:07,040 there'd be one or two people who would say the odd thing and you know what? You just ignore it. 156 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:13,120 And this is happening across the board. You know, you'd have the odd negative statement 157 00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:15,920 and no one would engage with the negative statements. You say, you know what? Yeah, 158 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:21,360 I'm just here to be happy. So yeah, that's what it was like, man. And that's why I'm here for life. 159 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:22,480 This is my home now. 160 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:32,240 I fucking love that. I fucking love that, man. It really, it's different here, man. It's different. 161 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:38,240 The vibe, the whole thing is different. Like, man, you said it so well. You said it so well, 162 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:45,360 you said it so well. You said it so well, Javi. Honestly, I really wish QW was here with you, man, 163 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:55,200 because he's somebody super special, just to say the least. He's incredible, man. You guys had, 164 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,080 I can't imagine when you were both here experiencing all those things together. 165 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:08,080 Because when I got here, you guys were already super tight. It was fucking incredible the way 166 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,160 like you're, I don't know, you guys like seemed like you were friends for like, 167 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:16,720 like a long, long time. And I come to find out you guys met on here as well, right? 168 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,200 Yeah, we did. Now, I'm glad, I hope he's not listening to this as an anon, 169 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:28,320 because his ego doesn't need any further stoking with all the good stuff he said, 170 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:37,600 Sleepy. But yeah, I think it started off as a friendly rivalry, in a sense, 171 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:43,120 Sleepy, right? If we would, I mean, we were both, we both took pride in our shitposting, 172 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:49,440 and we both took pride in being able to onboard the most number of plebs and just give them a 173 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:54,400 good experience. So it really did start as a friendly conversation and then, or rather, 174 00:18:55,120 --> 00:19:00,800 a friendly rivalry. And then I think sometime in in March, I finally reached out to him, 175 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:05,120 or late February and said, Look, we should, why don't we join forces and actually 176 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:10,000 do something here? We just don't know how this medium is going to play out. We're, 177 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,360 we're, I mean, this is such a cliche, but we are so early, right? And we the future of content 178 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:21,680 creation is in front of us. So why don't we just take a leap and do something, just take this shit 179 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:28,480 posting to audio format. And I think the plebs will appreciate that. And, you know, we'll, 180 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:35,040 we have humble beginnings, we're still trying to grow, right? So I appreciate you saying that, 181 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,480 you're talking about us here. And then I think you've done it on a couple of other forums, 182 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:47,760 as if we're some well established, famous show, we're not, right? I think maybe I wasn't 183 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:52,160 following, but I suspect you might have gotten a larger audience than us in one of your evening 184 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:58,480 segments. So it's, so we have humble beginnings, we're constantly trying to think about how we, 185 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:06,320 where we take the show's direction. That said, both of us are, you know, we have family commitments, 186 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:11,440 we have our fiat mining commitments. So we're doing this just for fun, right? We're not doing 187 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:17,680 this for the money. We're not, we're perfectly okay, at least financially from, by not making 188 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,080 money from this, right? So this doesn't need to be a career. But that said, we also can't dedicate, 189 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:28,320 you know, a large amount of time to blockchain radio as a result. 190 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:34,880 Honestly, I think you guys are bigger than what you're given credit for, man. Like, I'll continue 191 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:41,840 to say you guys are the shit. Bomb.com, like there's no second best. Like, honestly, what the 192 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:47,760 fuck? If anybody asked me right now, I'll be like, yo, them the guys, the biggest podcasts in the 193 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:55,760 world. But for real, though, like, honestly, I, you guys are, like, paving the way. Because I 194 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:04,240 wouldn't have like, I'm pretty sure me, the Bitcoin lobby, all these different nests wouldn't be on, 195 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:10,640 if it weren't for you guys, you know, putting your feet through the door, and allowing us to see 196 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,000 through the little crack and be like, holy shit, this is a cool ass place. Like, let's hang out 197 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:19,760 over here as well. And yeah, I fucking you guys keep doing it with like, you guys started with 198 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,920 the hashtag, then with your show, I wonder what's next. Like, you guys are going to keep leading 199 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:30,160 this town the rabbit hole and I'm down for the ride. It's an amazing ride. And you guys, you know, 200 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,960 get us there generally. So fuck man. You guys are killing it. 201 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:39,360 That's, that's again, very kind of you, Sleepy. But 202 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:45,520 I have one thing to say about you guys. You guys are incredible. You got to admit it. You got to 203 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:54,800 admit it. You guys are incredible. I will say I do have a life outside of QW. A nostril life outside 204 00:21:54,800 --> 00:22:06,320 of QW as well. We don't do everything together. Oh, man. No, but yeah, go ahead. 205 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:14,640 I'm sorry. Can I can I selfishly plug something of my own? Yes. Hell yes. Yeah, this is the time. 206 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:22,560 So one or two of you in the audience might be aware of this, but I am in the process of writing a book 207 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:31,680 of magic realist fiction about Bitcoin. I've been and the the approach I've taken is, well, 208 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,840 okay, actually, let me rewind. I started writing this around this time last year, right? It was 209 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:42,480 meant to be a book of 20 plus chapters. I had the full plot figured out, but the details were, 210 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,600 you know, trickier because I had set myself up somewhat challenging topic to write about. 211 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:57,040 And I hit writer's block sometime late last year. So I was about five or six chapters in. And I 212 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,280 I just wasn't moving. And then about a month ago, I said, you know what, I need to force the issue 213 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,760 here because I do want to write the book. Right. I like the I like the idea that I have. And I want 214 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:11,200 to take it to its conclusion. So to force myself to do that, I said, I'm going to release one chapter 215 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:17,600 at a time. My initial view was I'd release it on hubla.news, but I have not been able to get it to 216 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:23,360 work on. I've tried multiple browsers and so on. So what I've the hybrid approach I've taken is I 217 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:32,160 have a ghost blog and I post one chapter every week or 10 days to it. And then I immediately 218 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:40,240 link it and post it on Nostra, then copy the Nostra note ID and paste that in the footnote 219 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:45,280 of that post on ghost. So it's there. It's a tenuous linkage, but it is a linkage to Nostra. 220 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:52,160 And in any case, the first post when that talks about the release of each chapter is it happens 221 00:23:52,160 --> 00:24:00,240 on Nostra. So I've done three chapters plus a prologue so far. Chapter four is coming maybe in 222 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:06,880 two or three days. And I'm planning on doing that. If my speed of writing increases, 223 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:14,720 then I'll try to move to faster than once a week. But right now, one chapter every 224 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:21,920 week or 10 days is what I can manage. I've actually been meaning to read some of it. 225 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,800 I know exactly where it's talking about. You're talking about Casa Nostra. 226 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:33,360 And yes, that's right. That's the name of the blog or the newsletter, if you will. Right. But 227 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:40,880 that's what I'm posting to. Yeah, this is a yeah, I got I got to like actually dedicate some time 228 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:49,280 because I've noticed that each chapter actually gets longer. Right. Well, maybe the first three 229 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,400 that could have been the pattern, but it's going to be about the same. You know, it's 230 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:59,840 in a standard size book format. Maybe we're talking about 12 to 15 pages per chapter. 231 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:05,280 I think that's going to be the average. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. And I just want to be updated by 232 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:11,520 the time that chapter four comes out. I want to be already ready for it. So yeah, I'm going to 233 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:19,280 actually dedicate some time to this after this. Is there any way where this this place where you have 234 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:25,600 it here, there's there's no way to zap on here, huh? You know what I just noticed? We can highlight 235 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:36,960 this with Pablo's new tool. How would you feel about that? If you started highlighting certain 236 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,800 like, you know, parts of the of your writing and putting it up on there? I mean, 237 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:50,240 so I want to preface this by saying the reason I plug this is I want people to read the book, 238 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:56,960 not because I want to make money off of it. Right. It's a fun exercise for me. And I and I think 239 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:03,600 the story will resonate with with a lot of folks. Right. It's not just about Bitcoin. 240 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:09,360 I mean, Bitcoin is a key part of it. But it's really about a young man's journey in coming to 241 00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:15,760 terms with grief and then just through a lot of magical experiences, finding out about and 242 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:22,320 learning more about Bitcoin while dealing with his grief as well. So that really is the theme here. 243 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:28,160 I'm writing it because I don't want to explore that subject. It's fun for me to and it's, you 244 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,880 know, it's a it's a I wouldn't even call it a tragic comedy. It's supposed to be generally 245 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:38,320 lighthearted and in tone. Right. It's like this this young kid who's dealing with this incredibly 246 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:44,000 difficult situation, but in a really weird way with with bizarre things happening to him with 247 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:50,000 Bitcoin, you know, a pretty constant theme throughout throughout it. So that and I think that 248 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:56,000 will resonate with some people if not the Bitcoin part, then the sort of hero's journey, if you will, 249 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:02,800 to some extent, and some of the non Bitcoin but other crazy things that happen in it. So I just 250 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,680 want people to read it and have fun. I want to have fun writing it. So this is not about the Zaps. 251 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:16,320 Yeah, no, I didn't. I actually just wanted to see if you were willing to use the tool for something 252 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:22,320 like this, because I see it as valuable content that could be that potentially I'd want to. But 253 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,840 yeah, no, I completely understand what you mean, Avi. That was just a me, me thinking, 254 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:34,880 like what I would want to do. Not now. What do you want? You know, I want to know. I get it. I get 255 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:44,880 it. I wanted to ask you something. What are the numbers mean? All right, I'll give. So I don't 256 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:50,240 want to give too many spoilers in the story. Right. You talk about the numbers. They talk about the 257 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,240 which numbers they talk about the book or something else? No, no, no, the numbers in the book and they 258 00:27:54,240 --> 00:28:03,440 seem to be like they remind me of like a block sizes or something. Oh, the oh, the chap. Yeah, 259 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:12,080 those are those block height blocks. Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah. How you time sent it. 260 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,880 That's how I time stamp it. So if you look if you look up those block heights on and it's I've, 261 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:24,800 I think I'm accurate to within 10 15 minutes, right, plus or minus. But if you look those up 262 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:31,040 on mempooled or space, you'll get the exact date and time. So all the time, the story set in on the 263 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:37,600 East Coast, and it's set in this time, it starts around this time 2022. Right. So if you look at 264 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:43,120 the block heights, it'll correspond to the dates and times in, you know, April, May 2022. 265 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:52,800 That's really, really interesting. I've, that's so interesting. Yeah, that's it really looked like a 266 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,880 like a block height for a little second, but I didn't want to. Yeah, that's amazing. 267 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:06,560 So the name of the actual book is 24 the book or just 2424 just 24. Okay. 268 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:14,400 Yeah. So everyone, if you'd like to go see the book, can I plug it in like the whole link? 269 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:21,120 Sure. Yeah, the 24 the book and it has all the chapters in it. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. So 270 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:27,040 Casa, if you if you guys go to Casa slash, wait, how do you say that? Ford, like, how do you say 271 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,640 that slash? I think that goes in the middle. I'm so illiterate when it comes down to like, 272 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:42,720 dash hyphen. Yeah, whatever you want to call it, dash hyphen, Nostra, Casa, dash Nostra, 273 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:51,200 the ghost that I owe. And on there, you'll be able to see it. Please go check it out. You're also 274 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:57,760 able to subscribe with the email guys. So I'm going to do that. Yeah. Well, I mean, I, you know, 275 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:03,920 that's completely optional. Look, Ghost is for me is a one of the better, better platforms. 276 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:10,320 But it's also a fiat platform. So to subscribe, you actually have to semi docs yourself or at 277 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:15,760 least docs are email. So completely optional. That's all good. My email is literally sleepy 278 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:25,840 ass or sleepy calm. So it's all good. Seriously. All right. Tano, you're also here, man. Do you 279 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,960 have any questions for our fucking guest? I don't know that much about the book. So 280 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:38,560 I was just learning so much right now. Doesn't have to be about the book, brother. Oh, okay. 281 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,200 As you've been here for quite a bit before your actual speaking time, I'm actually curious what 282 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,640 kind of maybe tips and tricks you might have because your player chain radio is absolutely 283 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:58,960 amazing. I love it so much. Yeah, again, appreciate you saying that tunnel. We're still 284 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:04,800 learning and still trying. So I'm glad that even this humble effort in the beginning is resonating. 285 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:13,120 Well, I look, I don't have any tips and tricks for a 24 hour nest. Right? My tip and trick is 286 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,880 don't do it because you're insane for that. Now, if you're doing thinking about doing a standard 287 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:27,840 one or two hour nest, the two things I would strongly recommend. The first one is get a good 288 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:33,760 mic. If you guys haven't already, right? Just invest in a good mic and use a desktop because 289 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:39,120 the sound just comes in very clean that way, right? Without any catching any background stuff. 290 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:46,640 And when you listen to the recordings, it sounds a lot better. So that's one. The other is I would 291 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:53,120 go in with, it depends on whether you're getting a guest or whether you want to riff on just between 292 00:31:53,120 --> 00:32:01,600 the two of you on one topic. But if a little bit of structure is always better than no structure, 293 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,720 so go in with maybe five or six bullet points and then under those bullet points, you know, 294 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:11,520 you put some related sub bullet points, right? So, you know, it doesn't have to be dogmatic 295 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,880 that you stick to that in the letter, but at least you create guardrails and a little bit of 296 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:23,680 discipline for yourself to stay on topic and then to know when you need to move topics, right? And 297 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:30,880 if you have a two hour nest, I would just put some loose timelines, you know, 20 minutes for topic one, 298 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:37,040 25 minutes for topic two, whatever it is, right? And that way you can have a little bit of discipline 299 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:45,040 and make sure the show runs a little smoother. These were some absolutely great tips. Sleepy, 300 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:55,360 you were writing them down, I hope, right? Of course. Yeah, I did. We actually believe it. 301 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:02,240 But I will say, sorry, real quick, quick comment, right? But that is if you're looking for a structured 302 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:09,040 type of show, I think the one or two of your frog talks that I've listened in on, I think you won, 303 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:15,600 you pulled me up on stage even, Sleepy, was I think you seem to take the more open mic approach, 304 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:21,280 which is great, right? It's like get as many people on and let's have that chorus of voices, 305 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:27,360 vigorous dissent or vigorous agreement, whatever it is. So it really depends on the style of show 306 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:35,280 that you walked. I like chaos. I thrive in chaos. So the more people we can have on stage, 307 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:47,280 the better. Honestly, I don't like being confined to bullet points or to any of that. I'd much rather 308 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,080 go with the flow. I feel like it's going to make for a better, more interesting, more human 309 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:59,040 conversation at the end of the day. Because I mean, there's different opinions on this. I have 310 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,600 multiple different opinions on this and I just change my mind because at the same time, it is 311 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,800 who you're going to have on. If there's going to be a guest, I definitely should have minimum, 312 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,760 maybe three questions. I don't want to go as far as six. Maybe three questions and then break 313 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:20,800 those down into even more. But yeah, typically I'm pretty comfortable with 314 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:28,800 everybody that I've spoken to on here. I'm not afraid to let them know that 315 00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:38,480 I'm not fully prepared and this whole thing is, there's no format for this. It could go 316 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,960 anywhere you want it to go at the end of the day. If we wanted to just stop talking about whatever 317 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,440 we're talking about now and talk about Bitcoin only, we could talk about Bitcoin only. We want 318 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,320 to talk about the corn industry. We could talk about the corn industry. You know what I mean? 319 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,960 This doesn't really have to like, because at the end of the day, we branded ourselves as frog talk 320 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:05,840 and we take ourselves super lightly. The conversation is supposed to be fun and 321 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:16,720 it's entertaining in a way, but not super technical where everything that you hear will go 322 00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:24,240 over you. Where you won't actually be able to comment and interact. So I want it to be 323 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:30,160 super inclusive to everyone that's listening. I don't want it to be something that, I also believe 324 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:38,240 that other people will do the super technical shows and have the background to do that. I don't. 325 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:43,360 Tanel doesn't. We could sit here and shitpost all day, you feel me? And make memes and stuff like that. 326 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,640 Tanel, you want to speak? Go ahead, brother. Go ahead. 327 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:52,960 Yeah. Well, Slippi, we both had this discussion already, I think in a closed room. 328 00:35:52,960 --> 00:36:00,320 We were considering should we have just the frog talk? Should we have a separate, maybe 329 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:06,800 a bit more formal kind of episode? Maybe one, two hour long one like you and QW do? 330 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:15,120 So what we came across was that neither of us two are really that tech savvy, which made us 331 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:21,200 understand that we should really be doubling down on stuff that we excel at instead of trying to be, 332 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:28,720 I don't know, we're not going to be better than you in that sort of a format. So we have to find 333 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:35,120 a different format that we excel at. And this chaos, I don't know, I don't know, 334 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:42,000 this chaos, like inviting everybody randomly to the stage, asking for different kinds of opinions. 335 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:48,080 It's been a mess. My phone overheating constantly. This is hilarious and funny and degenerate. 336 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:55,200 And it works for us, but it might not work for other people. So yeah, that's how we ended up on this format. 337 00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:00,640 Yeah. And that makes sense, what both of you said, right? You guys have got to play to your strengths. 338 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,840 If you are more comfortable in that open mic type format, then you should absolutely embrace that. 339 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:13,120 I think the tip I gave you was what works for me. I mean, it's just the story of my life and my career 340 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:19,280 that I like hierarchical bulleted lists, like organizing things into that. It just makes my life, 341 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:24,640 it makes it easier for me. But yeah, I see what you guys are saying. 342 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:34,000 Yeah, it's, no, but I definitely, it's, yeah, no, I wish I could be, I wish I could be as a, 343 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:40,640 I wish I could, but I don't know, man. It's hard to like, you know, like teach me how to 344 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:46,000 how to actually do that. Like, it's hard, man. It's hard. Like, you know what I really love? 345 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,520 I really love like these, these mess that we've done over the past couple hours. I've learned so 346 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:56,480 much. But I haven't had to like, you know, pretend that I know something that I don't know. 347 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,840 I'm never going to fucking do that. I don't like doing that shit because at the end of the day, 348 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,240 I'm not actually going to pick up whatever you're going to explain to me if I'm doing that. You 349 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:08,320 know what I mean? Like, so if I don't know something, I'm going to ask a question. Like, 350 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,160 I'm pretty sure you saw that from the very moment, like I got on here, Avi, like I'm, 351 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,560 I'm going to ask questions. I don't care how dumb am I sound. I'm going to ask it. 352 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:21,120 Because at the end of the day, it's for my benefit. And somebody else might be looking 353 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:26,160 and somebody else might be listening and, you know, doesn't want to fucking speak up for whatever 354 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:33,760 reason, but I'll speak up. I don't care. I really love learning. So especially, you know, things 355 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:39,760 that interest me. All of this interests me because it's, it's, it feels like a revolution, man. It 356 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:45,440 feels fucking crazy what we're doing here. This is insane. Like this whole thing. Like, I'm pretty 357 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,920 sure you have a lot of thoughts about this. But, you know, I really want to ask you, like, 358 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:56,080 what do you think about like this, this nature of, um, NOSTER being decentralized, being uncensored, 359 00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:02,960 being, um, untamable, like it's fucking crazy permissionless. You can do whatever the fuck you 360 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:11,840 want to do at any moment in time. Like, how do you feel about those? Yeah. So I'm going to give a 361 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:17,120 non-engineer answer to this. And any engineers in the audience are probably going to balk at this, 362 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,640 at the way I'm going to describe this. But one of the first things that struck me about NOSTER, 363 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:28,800 and this is back in mid December when I joined and I just read up on the spec, is we have an, 364 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,800 so, you know, the concept of relays and clients, we know that, I don't need to explain this. 365 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:40,240 But I said, the first thing that struck me was there is an opportunity here to re-architect 366 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:47,920 the entire internet using NOSTER, meaning using NOSTER as the base layer to build all the 367 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:54,800 applications or a vast majority of the applications that were, that are part of our lives today and 368 00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:00,880 do it the right way. Right. Was it, was someone from, it could have been Mark Andreessen or 369 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:08,000 someone like that who back, you know, almost 15 or 20 years ago said, uh, words to the effect of 370 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:14,480 the original sin of the internet was not having a native payment layer to it. Right. So, and what, 371 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:23,200 what ended up happening is you had this, uh, balkanization and these oligopolies being created, 372 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:30,880 especially over the last 10 years, right. These walled gardens and platforms that were driven by 373 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:37,520 advertising revenue, inserting a third, you know, third party into what should be a user and content, 374 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:43,280 strictly a user and content interaction. Uh, but you do have this third party with, uh, slightly 375 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:49,520 a different set, potentially misaligned set of incentives, which then feed into the platforms, 376 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,400 incentives, right. Platforms here being Facebook, Google, uh, Amazon, and what have you. 377 00:40:54,400 --> 00:41:02,000 Uh, and it's, it's just become a complete mess and a symptom of, uh, you know, late stage fiat 378 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:08,000 capitalism in my mind. And with NOSTA, we can just, we have an opportunity. Yes, it's not a base 379 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,320 layer. This is why I said an engineer would bark at it. If I said we can re-architect the internet, 380 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,520 because, you know, you react, if you wanted to do that, you'd have to be at the TCP IP or, or even 381 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:23,280 lower level. Right. But you know, in a manner of speaking, if you were to use NOSTA, you would 382 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:29,520 have to use NOSTA as the base layer to build applications like publishing, right. Like we're 383 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:36,240 seeing with Hublot News, we're like a wave man, uh, for music streaming. Maybe there'll be some 384 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:42,560 sort of YouTube variant once we can figure out how you could have distributed video over relays. 385 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:48,560 Right. And I don't know what the answer to that is or something like jam systems, which today is a, 386 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:54,640 uh, I mean, it's fantastic, right. Uh, we all love Ness, but it's still a centralized service, right. 387 00:41:54,640 --> 00:42:01,040 And Derek's already talked about, uh, you know, and I think he called it, it was a NIP 100. Uh, 388 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:07,920 but in any event, a new NIP that could potentially allow the, uh, relays to play a part, uh, in, in 389 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:14,480 the way the audio is stored or, or, or streamed. Right. So all of these applications that we, 390 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:19,760 we're so used to and we're so trapped in, in their walled gardens or in subscription hell, 391 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,480 uh, with them, there's an opportunity to re-architect them with the native currency. 392 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:31,760 That's Bitcoin, uh, in, uh, in place. Uh, and I think that's just going to lead to a better place 393 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,680 because we remove advertising or at least advertising as it exists today out of the picture. 394 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:46,560 And, uh, it, it, in my mind, that'll lead to happier people, more constructive engagements, less, um, 395 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:53,680 less algorithmic manipulation, right. The way you see on Twitter and even on Facebook for that 396 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:59,280 matter. So I think it's all good stuff and, and the world's at our fingertips. And this struck me 397 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:05,280 in mid December, right. And, and what that's as long before, I mean, it's not, it's not social 398 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:11,840 didn't exist in, on December 15th or December 16th of 2022. Right. And then now you have all those 399 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:20,000 multiple clients. Uh, and you have, uh, you know, Pablo came in and he started changing the world, 400 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:26,240 one Nostra client at a time. Right. So I think we've seen remarkable progress in just those 401 00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:31,120 four or five months. And I think the future is very bright. We just need to make sure we get, 402 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:37,120 you know, more engineers engaged and interested and, and keep zapping the good engineers to 403 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,080 incentivize it. 404 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:46,800 I couldn't agree more. Um, I had a, I had a little question for you Avi, um, in terms of like, 405 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:55,840 have you seen, um, that, uh, that push that Jack is, is making for, um, the Nostra native, um, 406 00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:01,760 GitHub? Um, yes. What do you think about that whole thing? And do you, do you think like there's a 407 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,760 better way of doing it than, um, the bounty? 408 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:13,600 Yeah. I mean, just on the idea itself real quick, right. Uh, so Git itself is, uh, decentralized. 409 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:21,120 Um, but GitHub, right. The current repository that hosts all of these Gits, which most people use 410 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:29,680 is now unfortunately owned by Microsoft. And I suspect, uh, Jack's, um, concern stems from that, 411 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,720 right. That the bit, especially, I mean, there's a lot of, uh, code repositories that are on GitHub, 412 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:40,960 uh, but especially, uh, Bitcoin core. Um, and I think Jack's concern stems from that, that 413 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,520 this is a single point of failure that we've created, uh, for ourselves as a community. 414 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:53,120 Uh, and I think that's the push behind having, uh, truly decentralized, um, uh, GitHub 415 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:59,120 alternative. And I haven't looked at the spec too closely. I want it might leverage the concept of 416 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:04,800 Gits, which are decentralized today anyway. Again, I'm not technical enough to opine on 417 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:11,840 the specifics of that. Uh, but that said, I did see the comment to your question on the 418 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:19,760 sleepy, uh, uh, Jack posting or musing publicly if the bounty was the right approach or not. 419 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,920 Um, I mean, there are a couple of ways of, of thinking about this, right? I think, uh, 420 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:32,480 when I initially saw the bounty, I thought it was a good idea. Uh, but the problem is it is such a, 421 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:41,040 such a large task, uh, smaller bounties work, right? Smaller bounties for smaller, uh, books of work. 422 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:49,200 Um, I think those work large bounties for these large potentially world changing tasks. Yeah, 423 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:55,120 that's, that is a trickier one and you need to mobilize a team of people, um, to do it. And I 424 00:45:55,120 --> 00:46:01,200 mean, maybe in Jack's mind, it was just, you know, do a quick, you know, a quick, you know, 425 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,760 you know, do a quick and dirty proof of concept. And that's what the bounty is for. I wasn't too 426 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:13,280 specific, uh, in the requirements that he wrote up, but if you, if you want to real systemic 427 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:21,360 replacement for GitHub, you actually need a whole team. And then it becomes, uh, there's a bit of a 428 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:27,360 catch 22 here because you will, to get a team, you'll need to create a company that raises capital 429 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:32,400 that can pay the salaries of these teams. So then you're creating another central point of failure, 430 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,640 right? And it's, it's, you're just perpetuating the cycle in a slightly different way, right? 431 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:42,000 Your central company building this replacement rather than this being built as a public good. 432 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:50,320 I have a radical idea about doing this. It's not a sustainable business model for anything else, 433 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:58,000 right? But so we're dreaming here right now, right? But I, it'd be amazing if someone does this, if 434 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:05,440 someone sets up a company, maybe it's, it's purely philanthropic, right? It's a, either a nonprofit 435 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:10,880 or some, some type, yeah, it'll have to be some type of nonprofit company that says, you know, 436 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,600 we have this money. It's basically, I've donated whatever it is, 20 million, a hundred million 437 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:21,040 dollars, or I've asked through my friends and other like-minded people, we have raised about 438 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:27,440 a hundred million dollars. No expectation of equity or anything like that. This is just, 439 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:35,920 these are just grants. And we will now hire a group of developers, product managers, 440 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:43,040 marketers, UX designers to build public, to build open source, maybe even public domain 441 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:49,600 tools for the community, right? So it'll have to be this sort of massive philanthropic push to create 442 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:56,720 this company-like structure that behaves like an agile enterprise-grade product team, product and 443 00:47:56,720 --> 00:48:03,200 engineering team, you know, and follows, you know, healthy best practices for software development 444 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:09,680 lifecycle, product development lifecycle, UX design, what have you. But because there is no 445 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:16,240 expectation of profit from the funders, all of this just becomes public domain, right? And the, 446 00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:20,560 you know, the money obviously goes to pay for the salaries of the developers, but the code, 447 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,920 there is no IP, there are no patents. This is all just a public good. So that's one way in which, 448 00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:30,960 I mean, this is, this is fantasy right now, but if someone were to do it, 449 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,440 something as big as a GitHub replacement on Nostra could be built. 450 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:43,360 That's amazing. That's a really good solution. I love for them to utilize Nest to talk over 451 00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:51,440 those meetings. I would love for them to be here on Nest, to be honest, so it could really be 452 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:59,680 like open source, like development, like right in front of all of our eyes. And, you know, 453 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:04,640 I don't know, but I'm pretty sure like if everybody got together right now, if every single 454 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:13,600 client dev and, you know, UI and UX designer, a talent here and product manager just decided, 455 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,280 you know, what, fuck it, like, let's actually do that. Like, Avi, right now, if you decided, 456 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:22,640 like, let me make that company, right? And then we let everybody know that at this certain time, 457 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:28,320 you got to join Nostra NAS and you got to join this NAS because over here is where we're going to be 458 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:35,280 building. And somebody takes, you know, charge of like moderating the room and delegates tasks, 459 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:40,240 like according to like whatever the people want to do themselves. Like you let them know, okay, 460 00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:45,280 we have this number of tasks and these are the tasks, which ones do you guys want? And, 461 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,720 you know, you pass them out. I don't know, but I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, 462 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:52,720 these are the tasks, which ones do you guys want? And, you know, you pass them out. I don't know 463 00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:57,680 how it would work, but like something like that, but it's right in front of everybody's eyes and 464 00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:03,200 people could chime in. Like, you don't know, but like somebody in the audience might have the 465 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,920 question to, you know, I mean, the answer to that question that you have about a solution. 466 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:13,840 Maybe even in the speakers themselves, like if it's everybody that I'm thinking about, 467 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:19,120 there's no way that it can get done in a timely manner while everybody's motivated. 468 00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:26,960 Yeah. I think the challenge, so that is a good idea, Sleepy. And I think maybe for smaller 469 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:32,640 features, something like that would work, right? My concern with that approach is I don't know 470 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:37,920 how scalable that is or how sustainable it is over long enough period of time, because 471 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:45,120 enthusiasm could start waning and it's also hard to coordinate in this type of open forum. I mean, 472 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:52,960 you could do it for a while, but coordinating in an open forum without some semblance of structure, 473 00:50:54,400 --> 00:51:03,040 without some sort of engineering best practices and just a flow of task prioritization and all 474 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:09,200 of that structure that's part of standard software development. And I think that would have to come 475 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:16,960 from a slightly more formalized structure. And the problem is the most obvious manifestation of that 476 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:25,840 is your standard, you know, privately owned company, right? Like, you know, any of these 477 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,840 software giants or even the smaller startups, these are all private companies. They have 478 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,400 shareholders as an expectation of profit and with an expectation of profit, there's an expectation 479 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,400 of protecting intellectual property, putting boundaries around that. So that defeats the 480 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:43,440 whole purpose and it's against, in my mind, the ethos of what we're trying to do here. So, 481 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:49,200 which is why I sort of put in this fantasy solution of, to your point, Sleepy, taking that sort of 482 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:55,200 energy that you're talking about and enthusiasm, but putting it under a slightly more formal 483 00:51:55,200 --> 00:52:02,000 umbrella, but that's not a traditional company. It's a, you know, some type of non-profit type 484 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:08,960 structure where the people who have contributed have zero expectation of profit. It's an altruistic 485 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:16,720 philanthropic contribution to build out public goods, which will have, and really it's a long 486 00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:23,360 term investment, right? Because if they truly believe in the power these tools will enable and 487 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:28,160 the direction in which it's going to take the world, and in my mind, that would be a happier 488 00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:32,560 place, a more abundant place, a more peaceful place, right? If these, the people who are 489 00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:37,360 investing truly believe in that, then, or not investing, putting the money aside, then they 490 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:42,320 would do that for that long term play. They say, yeah, look, what's $10 million for me right now 491 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:48,640 to donate here if, you know, 10 or 20 years from now, my children are going to live in a peaceful 492 00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:55,600 world or happier, more abundant world. So we need to have people with that low time preference, 493 00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:00,320 you know, who think generationally to participate in something like this. 494 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:08,000 I agree. I agree. Bhai, we have five minutes. Do you want to maybe open it up to live Q&A real 495 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:15,360 quick? We have somebody with their hands up. Yeah, let's do it. We have Bezoski, 496 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:20,560 Bezoski, I'm hoping I pronounced that right. Yeah, you can speak now. 497 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:23,680 You have any questions for Avi? 498 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:34,800 No? Did you raise your hand by mistake? Yeah? Was that the thing? Okay. Putting you back down. 499 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:41,840 All right. Thank you. If nobody has any questions for Avi, I mean, let me ask them. 500 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:48,400 You guys do? All right. Perfect. Aaron. What the fuck? Tenno, are you helping me or? 501 00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,600 No, I'm not pushing any buttons. Okay. Actually, you're doing it yourself right now. 502 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,360 God damn, because I literally bring him up and like as soon as I bring him up, he goes back down. 503 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:02,560 I don't know. No, it's too early for that. We'll be doing that later for you. Don't worry. 504 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:12,160 All right. Whatever. Avi. Fuck, man. Thank you. Honestly. It's fucking been amazing. 505 00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:19,760 If you buy your chance, I don't know what you're about to get into, but you're more than welcome 506 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:28,720 to stay for however long you want. Well, I'd love to. Sleepy, you guys are doing a fantastic job 507 00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:34,320 here. The reason I chose this time slot is this is the only one that works just given, I mean, 508 00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:41,760 Saturdays and Sundays are family days. So I've got to take my kid for a soccer tournament and there's 509 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:47,840 a bunch of stuff going on. But I'll try and pop back in later in the afternoon, 510 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:52,080 if nothing else to see how you guys are surviving about five or six hours from now. 511 00:54:52,080 --> 00:55:01,920 Place your bets. Place your bets. Look, I appreciate what you guys are doing. I think 512 00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:12,160 it's incredible. I hope you've raised good funds for the NES because I'm certainly invested in 513 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:19,040 NES taking off. So yeah, thank you for this. Thank you for having me on. And look, I've given you 514 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:26,560 three minutes to have a bio break. Yeah, I think this might be the kindest thing anybody's done 515 00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:33,840 for us in the last couple of hours. Incredible. I should have taken that break to be honest when I 516 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:42,880 had a chance. But yeah, I actually haven't had a bathroom break in a lot of hours. Holy shit. 517 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:51,280 I thought I had one. Sure. I fucking love you, Avi. Avi, don't leave until I come back. Give me a second. 518 00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:55,600 Oh my God. 519 00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:02,720 Sattel, I see that it's still recording. I hope it doesn't catch any bathroom sounds. 520 00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:12,480 Sleepy. I'm not going to comment on this one. This is just sound effects. Yeah, feel free to 521 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:20,640 throw shit emojis in honor of the sleepy taking a toilet break. Yeah, this has been absolutely 522 00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:26,880 crazy. Actually, I'm really curious how big the audio files are. Do you know, Avi? 523 00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,120 They should be saved to your desktop. 524 00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:39,920 I think it's on desktop and we are recording every single hour separately. Otherwise, 525 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:46,960 the files would get way too large. Yeah. Well, also, you'll run into an issue that we've run into a 526 00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:51,760 couple of times, which is if you go over an hour sometimes on Nest, because it's your browser that's 527 00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:59,680 recording it, it could crap out. So that's just something to keep in mind. So it's a good thing 528 00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:07,520 that you're stopping it every hour. So it should be saved on your desktop and you'll just have to 529 00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:13,520 look for them, retrieve it. I don't know how much editing you guys are planning on doing, but 530 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:20,640 you'll have them. Do you edit yours? Like regarding, like, is there any audio stuff, any 531 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:27,520 cutting, any stuff you do? We just clip the, if anything needs to be clipped from the beginning 532 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:33,520 or the end, like, you know, like small sounds just before we launch in. We, you know, because 533 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:38,080 you're not always sure when you hit the record button, it could be hitting the record button as 534 00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:43,760 someone's finishing their last word. So if there's, you know, some weird noises like that, we just 535 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:50,640 clip those and then we put them up. I guess it's the difference in your audio setup as all like, 536 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:55,520 if you have a really good audio setup and everything, all the levels and EQ and everything's 537 00:57:55,520 --> 00:58:02,480 good, then you don't need to really worry about it as much as we do. Yeah. Come back. What do you 538 00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:08,320 guys sound like? Throwing shit at you because you didn't end the recording. Yeah. Because I did what? 539 00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,560 You didn't end the recording. Oh no, I didn't. I didn't. Hold up. 540 00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,360 All right guys, this is the end of the 13th hour. 541 00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:34,320 Is it? I had number 13. 13, yes. It's 13 hours. Holy fuck. Okay. We're actually keeping tracks though. 542 00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:49,760 Wow. Wow. That's how you know I'm still good. Okay. Say it last. Yeah, man.