1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 Welcome, Kieran, to our eleventh hour of the 24-hour Frog Talk. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,000 How are you, my friend? 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Kieran, we can't currently hear you. If you're trying to speak, please refresh your browser. 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:24,000 It's actually been really surprising how little audio we've had so far. 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,000 Hey, Kieran, can you hear us? 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Not having anything come through. 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:36,000 I'm not hearing anything. Audience, are you hearing him? How is it? 8 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,000 I'm trying to refresh myself. 9 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,000 No, it's Ralph. Ralph just gave us... 10 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,000 Tano, hold up. Ralph just gave us a thumbs down. He can't hear either. 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,000 So, Kieran, it's an issue on your side. 12 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,000 By any chance, can you tell me what browser you're using with emojis real quick? 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,000 Throw up on 100 if you're using... 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,000 Well, first, let's find out if you're on desktop or mobile. 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,000 Oh, you have your hand. Okay. Desktop or mobile? 16 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,000 Desktop, put your hand up. 17 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,000 Okay, desktop. Okay. 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,000 Are you using a Chrome browser? 19 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,000 You are. Alright, perfect. 20 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:22,000 So, yeah, just refresh maybe another time and we'll see if that works because he's using the right browser. 21 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,000 Maybe it might be him using Ikeganito. 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:32,000 Maybe he has some cache or permissions settings on or some other apps that might be... 23 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,000 Wait, hold up. Tano, hold up. 24 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,000 Can you hear me now again? Yeah, we can hear you. 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,000 Perfect. Perfect. 26 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,000 I didn't have the right input selected on my Mac. Sorry. 27 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,000 No, you're good, brother. 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:47,000 How are you guys doing? You've been going for a while now. 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,000 Mad man. 30 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:55,000 I actually like Sleepy just DM'd me. He can tell me that I'm sleeping. 31 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,000 I just wrote him back like I'm doing the TikTok dances alone in my room just to keep myself awake. 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,000 So we're doing good. We're halfway there. 33 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,000 I'm doing absolutely amazing. Nothing to worry about. 34 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,000 Yeah. 35 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,000 So I'm stretched now. 36 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:13,000 No, I could definitely tell that he was sleepy with his last response. I love it. 37 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:19,000 Kieran, welcome, man. Very excited to have you on. 38 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,000 We have so many questions to ask you. 39 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:30,000 But first, we'd like for you to just tell us a little bit about yourself, your journey here. 40 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Journey on Nostr, journey on Bitcoin, if you like. 41 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,000 Yeah, we have an audience of 20 people right now. 42 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:42,000 And I'm positive that 100% of them would love to hear it. 43 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,000 The floor is yours. 44 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Okay. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. 45 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,000 It's currently 10 a.m. here. So I'm just in the middle of drinking coffee. 46 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,000 So you're going to have to give me some warm up time. 47 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,000 No, you're good. You're good. Perfect. Perfect. Cheers. Cheers. 48 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Get the coffee in. 49 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:10,000 My story is like, yeah, so I've been following, I guess I'll start with Bitcoin because it leads kind of leads straight into Nostr as well. 50 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:19,000 I've been following Bitcoin, you know, for like a couple of years now, I think around 2013 or 14 or something. 51 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:25,000 And, you know, kind of doing my fiat slave job and not liking it very much. 52 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:39,000 And then kind of decided in like 2017 or 2018 that I wanted to kind of try to dedicate more time to Bitcoin or to try to work on Bitcoin, you know, try to progress Bitcoin or improve adoption of Bitcoin. 53 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:47,000 So I started to like learn about, you know, the internals of Bitcoin and stuff at that time. 54 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:56,000 Yeah. And then it was it was only in 2020 when I seen a tweet from because I wasn't really like ready to work in Bitcoin. 55 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:05,000 You know, I wasn't like confident enough to work in like a back end sort of Bitcoin job because I'm a back end dev mainly. 56 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:14,000 And there was a tweet from Jack Mallers in like 2020 looking for looking for back end devs for strike. 57 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:19,000 And I was like, oh, great. Like I knew about strike and it was the same kind of technology that was familiar with. 58 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:29,000 So I was like, oh, cool. I'll apply for this. I ended up working for strike then for like a year and a half until kind of Nostr exploded. 59 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:36,000 I was just like on my Christmas break and I was like, everyone was talking about Nostr and I'm like, I need to check this Nostr thing out again. 60 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:45,000 And I was like trying out all the different web clients because they didn't have an iPhone and there wasn't really any Android apps yet. 61 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:52,000 And I was like, hey, I can I can probably build, you know, like I could probably build something. 62 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:57,000 You know, I'm not really a front end dev, but I had some experience with React and stuff. 63 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:04,000 So I was like, I'll give it a try. You know, try to build some something or at least try to build something as like a learning project, even if it goes nowhere. 64 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Because that's usually where like most of my spare time goes. I'm just like building random stuff. 65 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:14,000 That's it might probably probably goes nowhere. I mean, most of the time it doesn't go anywhere. 66 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,000 Like there's barely any traction with and it's just kind of like learning projects mainly. 67 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:23,000 That's you know, that's what I'd be doing most of the spirit my spare time anyway. 68 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:30,000 And yeah, then Nostr kind of exploded. People started tweeting about it. 69 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:37,000 Jack started tweeting about it. Snowden mentioned it briefly when he was checking out Nostr stuff. 70 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:43,000 And yeah, it's been a crazy journey since then. It's kind of wild. It's been four months already, really. 71 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:51,000 This is kind of exploded. Yeah, that's incredible, man. 72 00:05:51,000 --> 00:06:00,000 We actually had one of your front end developers on here not too long ago. 73 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:05,000 Really? Yeah. Alejandro? 74 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:10,000 No, hold up. I believe he did. I believe it was. 75 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:16,000 Did he tell me that he worked on trying to see that I got it right? 76 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,000 Maybe you don't know. Maybe it's Faberice you're thinking of. Yeah, it is. 77 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:26,000 That's him. Oh, I was like, yeah, I didn't. I don't know his real name. 78 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:32,000 So you got me right there. Yeah, he worked at Strike as well. 79 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:37,000 I mean, he still works at Strike and he was like looking at this Nostr stuff as well. 80 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,000 And I was like, yeah, this is kind of cool. And then I showed him like my project and he was like, this is awesome. 81 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:47,000 I'm going to try to contribute to this. And yeah, he was like grinding so hard on it. 82 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:52,000 He got burned out. You know, like he doesn't want to look at Snort anymore because he was working so hard on it. 83 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,000 He was like building all of the like every single new NIP that was approved. 84 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,000 He was like, oh, I'm going to implement this. And he like implemented straight away. 85 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:07,000 Oh, that's amazing. I love how excited you get when you see a new NIP and you just like, holy shit, I got to play with this right now. 86 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:12,000 Right now, right now, I got to drop everything I'm doing, even if it's like 10 things. 87 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:19,000 Exactly. Yeah. He would like pick up every single NIP and he'd be like, I'm trying this out. I want to build this. This is so cool. 88 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:28,000 I love that. I fucking love that, man. He's killing it right now. I fucking love what he's doing with Abla. 89 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:33,000 It's very interesting. We talked a lot about that as well. And yeah, about Snort, we talked a good amount. 90 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:44,000 It was the client that really that he really liked because he said that he really thought every other client was really sucky at that time when he first joined. 91 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:51,000 So that's amazing. And actually, that was my first it was my first desktop experience. 92 00:07:51,000 --> 00:08:00,000 And it's still my my go to. So fucking it's a great job. Honestly, you guys killed it with that. 93 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:11,000 It was it was actually like a lot easier in the beginning, like because it was like a lot more simple, like, oh, we want to just build like we want to at least get like a certain number of features built. 94 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:19,000 And it was like so simple. You know, it's just like, oh, we're making great progress. And it's so easy to like to build this client. 95 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:24,000 And then it's just like things just start to get really complicated, like where we're at now. 96 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:30,000 It's like way more complicated than it was in the beginning. And it's quite it's a lot slower to like add more features. 97 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,000 It's more of a grind right now, you know, like than it was in the beginning. 98 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:39,000 And beginning, it was all like excitement and optimism. 99 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,000 And we have to build all this like there's so much more stuff to do. 100 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:49,000 Like there's always things to improve. And it's like, it's just getting more difficult to maintain, like to add more stuff right now. 101 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:54,000 But things have like really slowed down in terms of like features that are getting built. 102 00:08:54,000 --> 00:09:01,000 Yeah, this is not stopping every day. Somebody's coming out with with another idea, with another nip. 103 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:15,000 And I think I also think this this place, this on NOS and that's right here is going to be a great place for client devs to, you know, talk about nips and hash out, you know, disagreements and stuff like that. 104 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:22,000 While, you know, being able to hear each other on here, you know, your voices is going to help. 105 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:33,000 It's going to help a ton. It definitely like text isn't going to get us like where voice could get you in the matter of a couple of minutes. 106 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,000 You know what I mean? Yeah. 107 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:52,000 So I really think like if you guys have I don't know what you guys could call it, but like regular like NOS or NEST where you just hop on and just talk about a whole bunch of cool ideas that you all have and work together on nips like in front of everybody. 108 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:57,000 That'd be insane because it's like it's completely open source building right there and then. 109 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,000 And everybody could like, you know, listen in. 110 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,000 I love for that to happen, to be honest. 111 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,000 Yeah, I mean, the 112 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:15,000 it's kind of difficult, you know, like people are all in different time zones and people are interested in different things at different times usually. 113 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:21,000 So it's kind of hard to get the right momentum of that certain discussion going. 114 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:26,000 Unless it's like very like everyone is interested in one point and then it's like 115 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:35,000 everyone's going to be arguing like the thing is like, like nobody can nobody wants to nobody's happy really with with the compromises that were provided. 116 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:41,000 And I mean, we are having everyone's having open discussions on on GitHub. 117 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,000 But like I said, like I said, it's all text. 118 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,000 Oh, yeah, it's not like hidden discussions or anything. 119 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,000 But no, no, that's that's absolutely true. 120 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:58,000 Yeah, no, I was just thinking, thinking a lot in terms of like having that speech element for the people that are not very like tech savvy. 121 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:09,000 But can still come on here and like listen and maybe Google a couple terms and here and there and, you know, be kind of on the same page about the progress that's going on. 122 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:18,000 And I don't know, it would just be easier for like the devs to like, you know, like let's say you put a message on there and the other person won't see it for like a couple hours. 123 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:23,000 I don't know. But it would be easier for you to get that feedback right there. 124 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,000 And then when somebody asked you, you know, with words. 125 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,000 But yeah, it was just a just a little idea. 126 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:40,000 But yeah, with the thing about time zones and the thing about like, you know, being emotionally attached to a certain thing in time as well, like to a certain nip and then somebody else attached to another one. 127 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,000 Emotions do run high. 128 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:49,000 Like, yeah, I could definitely see issue with being on the same page about the same topic. 129 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,000 I see it a lot right now. 130 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Like, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. 131 00:11:53,000 --> 00:12:08,000 Definitely has to be something like like what just happened right now with like Nip 54 and 55, I think it is like something like that could definitely be brought to a nest where devs could hash it out, I guess. 132 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:13,000 I don't know what you think about that one and specific. 133 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,000 Yeah, I think that that would have been like a good a good time of place to have that discussion. 134 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,000 Sorry, one second. 135 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,000 No problem. 136 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:25,000 Here, take your time. 137 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:32,000 But yeah, I think so, too. 138 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,000 Let me see. 139 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:40,000 I'm actually going to make the post I forgot completely to make that I just made one that would live. 140 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,000 You can repost that. 141 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,000 I got you. 142 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,000 We're on our 11th hour. 143 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,000 Nice. 144 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,000 Exactly. 145 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,000 So after this, we're going to be halfway done. 146 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,000 Right. 147 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Absolutely insane. 148 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:10,000 In the meanwhile, feel free to donate like this is all of this is done for for semi so and director really have the funds necessary to develop masternest even further. 149 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,000 Hey, I'm back now. 150 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:26,000 What I was going to say is like, yeah, like that would have been a perfect time to do a nest, I think, because a lot of people were like active at the same time talking about it on the GitHub issues. 151 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:32,000 You know, there was some progress made, you know, wasn't as as as constructive as they would have liked. 152 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:42,000 But I'm talking specifically about the 54 or the other one that will raised recently about the image metadata or image optimization. 153 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:50,000 Like, yeah, I could have been could have maybe solved a lot of the miscommunications by starting a nest or something. 154 00:13:50,000 --> 00:14:01,000 At the time because you know we had like four people, we had like four devs on at the same time, talking on the GitHub issue. 155 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:13,000 My I definitely agree. I absolutely agree. I also think, yeah, it could be used for every single time that something like this, you know, brings the people together. 156 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:18,000 Like I remember the deletion spec thing that was going around. 157 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:29,000 That would have been also a good time for people to voice their opinions about deletion events, deleting events, stuff like that. 158 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:35,000 Yeah, it's interrupted again. Sorry. 159 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:44,000 There was one more thing I wanted to say is like a lot of the times like there's there's so many nips proposals that, you know, you can't really keep track of them even. 160 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:54,000 So it's kind of also hard to to get like devs talking about certain nips because there's a lot of them that I wouldn't really be interested in. 161 00:14:54,000 --> 00:15:05,000 And it's maybe hard to get everyone on the same page or everyone aligned to talk about a certain nip, you know, and it's only later on where like the nip gets approved. 162 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,000 And then some other, you know, some people are like, hey, you shouldn't commit this nip. 163 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:15,000 And you're like, what is this nip? And like, why is it approved? And stuff. It's kind of. 164 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:26,000 It's a little bit it's a little bit too much, I think, for individual client devs to keep track of. There's so many nips being proposed and discussed all the time. It's like, it's kind of crazy. 165 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:31,000 Can you walk us a little bit through the process of approving a nip by any chance? 166 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:41,000 Well, I mean, I've I've only written like one nip so far, so I don't even like know what the process is, but it's kind of just like. 167 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:48,000 Yeah, you get like the relevant people or the people are interested to talk on it and to give their feedback like if. 168 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:58,000 But like I said, it's hard to get devs to initially look at it because they're already so busy with like whatever else they're working on or like it's not interesting at the time with it's not interesting to them at the time. 169 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:07,000 And it's maybe a little hard to get the right feedback, you know, like the process right now. I wouldn't say it's perfect or anything. It's just kind of. 170 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:23,000 It's like if anyone, you know, if anyone is not strongly against it, then it kind of just sits there until some clients implement it like you have to have certain certain clients, a certain number of clients have to implement it or to be able to show support for it. 171 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:29,000 You know, like it won't it probably won't be merged unless some client at least tries to implement it. 172 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:40,000 So that's kind of one of the requirements is like you've frozen it then if it's like a client then one of the clients has to implement it or two clients have to implement it before it will be approved. 173 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:50,000 And if it's like a relay specific thing then you know relays have to at least implement it in one of the relays one of the popular relays. 174 00:16:50,000 --> 00:17:03,000 Okay, okay. I see. I see. I see. So it's a yeah, not totally understand by your chance. I'm kind of interested in which you you put out there. 175 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:12,000 I wrote this in snort we have this, you know, subscriptions thing and the NOS address but it's like integrated into snort. 176 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:22,000 And to do like the authentication for that I came up with this HTTP authentication by using master events. 177 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:38,000 So in, in like in normal web API's and stuff or you have this kind of authentication header that you send in the request which has like your, your token or whatever that gives you access to certain parts of the site or certain API calls. 178 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:48,000 And I wanted to basically, you see I wanted to use you know like the NOS or account as like a login. And I can do that just by making them sign up. 179 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,000 If the user just signs an event and it proves that they own the key. 180 00:17:52,000 --> 00:18:03,000 And, you know, I don't need to create an account I can just basically use this signed event to say like oh hey this is this person, you know, trying to sign up for a subscription or whatever. 181 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:17,000 So I created this, this request header format in the authentication header that allows you to kind of interact with normal API's but with NOS keys. 182 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:26,000 So basically you can build something that's like NOS compatible I suppose but like it uses the your NOS account. 183 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:35,000 So you're providing NOS services but over regular HTTP API's then this is like a way to standardize authentication with those calls. 184 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:43,000 So if you want to build some kind of services that are NOS for NOS accounts like for NOS for example. 185 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:54,000 Like instead of posting this proof on your NOS feed and linking it you could basically just click and it will sign an event and it will just prove that and it will send it to NOS. 186 00:18:54,000 --> 00:19:01,000 Well I don't know how NOS actually works for their authentication but this could be another way of doing authentication as well for NOS. 187 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:08,000 That's amazing because Derek is actually trying to do exactly what you're saying. 188 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:19,000 So this, if it could work if that's already a nip that's out there and it could actually work for this then yeah that's definitely something Derek is going to want to know about. 189 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:24,000 It's kind of yeah that's amazing. That's amazing Kieran. 190 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:30,000 It's also being used by Melvin's NOSDAV. I don't know if you heard about that. 191 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,000 What's it called again? 192 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:37,000 NOSDAV. 193 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,000 It's basically like a well. 194 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,000 NOS about me? 195 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,000 Oh my bad. It's a little. 196 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,000 NOSDAV. N-O-S-D-A-V. 197 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,000 Oh N-O-S-V-A-V. 198 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,000 You probably have to search for it on GitHub honestly because you won't find anything on Google. 199 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,000 GitHub? Okay. 200 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:02,000 Yeah NOSDAV. It's an organization called NOSDAV. 201 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:18,000 But basically DAV is like this, it's kind of like a way to store and modify files but over HTTP calls. It's like a really old web standard called just DAV I think or WebDAV or something. 202 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,000 But this is like an adaption of that. 203 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:27,000 That's you know set up but for NOSDAV. So basically you can have like a 204 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:33,000 common file storage system and then you can kind of interact with it 205 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:39,000 from your NOSDAV account. So you can store files and it would basically authenticate with your key. 206 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,000 And he's implementing this exact same 207 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,000 header that I was talking about, this authentication header. It's exactly the same as the one I proposed in the NIP. 208 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:57,000 Because I talked to him about it before proposing the NIP or before implementing it for Snort and he was like yeah I'm thinking of doing something similar for this other project that I'm working on. 209 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:05,000 And we kind of collaborated on that NIP for this kind of scheme. 210 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:18,000 Yo that's fucking sick. I love that. And what you said right there like it's I love how DAVs on here just collaborate with each other and build off of each other's work. 211 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:29,000 It just seems very collaborative and seamless to build on here when you have the support of almost everybody on here. 212 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:41,000 Like every developer is open to making their projects open source and allowing others to fork it or do whatever they might want to do. 213 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:54,000 That's incredible. I don't know if you want to comment on how much, how the experience has been on here in terms of like collaborative work with other developers. 214 00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:10,000 And your experience overall with that and if it's been much easier than the Fiat world then if it's changed your mind in any ways about where this could go. 215 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:19,000 Well I'm not sure. I mean it's probably on par or similar to other kind of open source development because I never really done open source development before. 216 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:28,000 Like every Fiat job that you get it's probably like there's 99 percent chance it's going to be closed source and you're going to be building like something that competes with somebody else. 217 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:39,000 So it's a very different environment. It's not even comparable to Fiat I would say because like everyone here is just building things in their spare time because they're interested in it. 218 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:48,000 And they're not really like directly in competition. They're actually all work that someone else builds. It's like it could actually help you as well with your project. 219 00:22:48,000 --> 00:23:02,000 And you know this this all came about this header thing came about because of like I just asked in my telegram chat like does anyone know of this like this already exists because I was like trying to implement something like this and I was like OK well nothing exists. 220 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:09,000 Maybe we can build something for this and you know everyone else can use it. That's that's the great thing about Nostra as well. 221 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:18,000 Like if it doesn't exist I mean you can just build it and people can other people can use it or they can they can make use of it or they can improve it even. 222 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:26,000 And everyone benefits really. Whereas you know in a in a closed source situation I mean you're never going to have that. 223 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:38,000 It's only it's only open source development where you're going to have kind of collaboration between essentially different companies if you could call them companies you know but different projects. 224 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,000 They're all just working together. It's pretty nice. 225 00:23:43,000 --> 00:24:02,000 Yeah I mentioned that because I heard from another developer that he he's on the Linux newsletter or something like that where a lot of developers are on and that he always sees people arguing on there and being very toxic towards each other instead of being on the same page about certain things. 226 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:11,000 Yeah not really getting any like he says this is like a brush breath of fresh air when it comes out to open source developing. 227 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:20,000 It's taking a lot of like the masculine toxicity out of the equation when it comes down to working together and stuff like that. 228 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:35,000 So, yeah, it's I could I could definitely see where where you were where you're saying with these are definitely like projects that you know feed your soul like in terms of it be true passions of yours. 229 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:47,000 When you you know when you're building something like this. It tends to be more than it starts off as a hobby and now it's you know turning into you know passion projects and then. 230 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:56,000 Yeah, I'm really happy to see that you guys are rock stars here you guys are definitely like celebrities. 231 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,000 And that's something I haven't seen in any other social media. 232 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:24,000 You don't tend to have the know the developers be sort of like like brought up to the spotlight per se and like sort of like at the same level even higher than an influencer would be in terms of their you know recognition and overall like me this around the protocol. 233 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:31,000 And the social media it's it's incredible you guys totally deserve all the praise you guys get and all the love. 234 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:38,000 I fucking love it's this is why I'm like this is why this place is so amazing. 235 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,000 Because you guys are getting the recognition you guys deserve. 236 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:58,000 And I fucking love it man it's it's true value for value all every time there's an update and I'm using it. I zap that post because it is just the way that it's supposed to go you know the way supposed to be you get the way they got set it up to be. 237 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,000 And yeah I fucking love it man. 238 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,000 This is a really cool place. 239 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,000 What made you stay by any chance like this is a question that I have asked before. 240 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:22,000 And it's basically what brought you to Nostra and what made you stay I didn't actually ask you those questions on together but yeah what actually made you stay. 241 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,000 Yeah what made me stay. 242 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:33,000 You know I kind of had this idea as well like I've always wanted like ever since I worked in companies. 243 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:46,000 I've always wanted to do like open source development so this is me like staying true to my my wish and dream to like work on open source because like open source software is the only software that actually matters you know because like all the other software 244 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:57,000 it's all just like for profit it's all for like just part of the machine you know like companies make make software just to make money. 245 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:15,000 And open source software is not to make money it's like it's to provide people tools and that's really it's really powerful right like you can you're actually making something that's important, which you can't really you almost never will achieve if you're 246 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:23,000 just working at a company so this is my trying to stick to it just for that reason. 247 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,000 Oh man. Yeah. 248 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:35,000 That's fucking incredible. Yeah I totally agree with everything you said about open source. It's definitely the only thing that's that's worth it. 249 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,000 At the end of the day, it's, it's beautiful how it's. 250 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:47,000 I really like the permissionless part of this whole thing where you can really do whatever you want to do whatever you want to do it. 251 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:59,000 You can stop doing whatever you were doing to pursue the next, you know, the next myth per se that that comes out and you're really passionate about. 252 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:07,000 And then make a cool thing and then possibly go back to the to the thing that you were, you know, creating and polish it, you know, better on. 253 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:14,000 But yeah, there's no, what I like about it so much is that you guys really have no timelines. 254 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:28,000 Like, most of the time the community completely understands because they're either as excited about the new implementation as you are, or, you know, more like it's, it's incredible. 255 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:38,000 Yeah, I just want to say that how like how cool it is that it's permissionless so you guys have no timelines here, and you're free to do whatever you'd like. 256 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,000 Yeah, I fucking love that. 257 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:58,000 Another question that I had for you is, so I actually want to know if you have any new features coming out or anything you want to say, particularly about the client. 258 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,000 Okay, new features. 259 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,000 I've been trying to build like the subscriptions thing for the past few weeks. 260 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,000 It's been pretty much taking up all my time. 261 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:15,000 But there is some other kind of side quests I guess you could call them related to that work. 262 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:22,000 I've been trying to build like this you know, zapped paywall feature that a lot of people have been asking for. 263 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:28,000 So that's maybe coming soon. I don't know if I'll have time to work on it. 264 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:52,000 Basically, it'll, it's kind of like an extension, well I'm planning it as like an extension to NIP 94. I know it's very controversial NIP but I think it's a really great NIP for this use case, where you could essentially tag, like an image or like a video as like requiring a payment. 265 00:29:52,000 --> 00:30:06,000 And then whenever you fetch the content, like you have to pay it with a 402 response, which is basically like a HTTP response code for payment required and it will give you like an invoice and you pay it and you get access. 266 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:12,000 Hopefully I can build that soon. That's kind of like my next thing I think that I'm going to try to complete. 267 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:22,000 Because there's a lot of features in subscriptions and stuff that take a lot of time to build like for the premium tier for subscriptions. 268 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,000 It's a lot of complicated stuff that I don't want to like stare right now. 269 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:35,000 So I'm happy just to leave the, like the supporter one there and it gives you some basic features but aside from that. 270 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:41,000 Yeah, I don't I don't know like what's what's gonna come next honestly it's like. 271 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:49,000 I'm kind of trying to focus on like getting some kind of revenue streams coming in like this is this paywall feature will have like a fee. 272 00:30:49,000 --> 00:31:10,000 Like a fee model so that's like one way of monetizing the services because like I'm running this this void cat thing as well this this file host void cat but it's completely free and it's like unlimited storage and that can't last forever so I need to kind of monetize that as well and that's where this this kind of coming in like I want to build this this 273 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:23,000 kind of function where it's like connected to Noster and you can do the paywall payment directly on Noster and that service can kind of get some revenue coming in because it's not it's obviously not free to run. 274 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:33,000 It's costing like like four or $500 a month so I mean in total I mean for all for all the things that I run it's like $500 a month. 275 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:48,000 So it's very expensive. So I'm trying to I've been kind of just focused on that really for the past month I guess. I haven't really been paying attention to any of the nips or planning to implement any new features but hey if you guys want something. 276 00:31:48,000 --> 00:32:06,000 Please let me know because I tend to just kind of meander between different things until it's it's usually something that I kind of want to implement because there's actually not a lot of people requesting like specific things so it's usually whatever I'm interested at the time that I work on. 277 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,000 That's that's incredibly. 278 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:20,000 That's insane man like how much it's costing per month. I definitely do think that yeah the paywall is going to help a ton now. 279 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,000 And those subscription models. 280 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:32,000 Yeah they should like that that file file hosting. I mean, yeah, I don't know if it's just file hosting or just image hosting. 281 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:43,000 But yeah the hosting should definitely be like a feature of like the subscription model and yeah man. 282 00:32:43,000 --> 00:33:02,000 Devs need to get paid at the end of the day. You guys do a ton and you're not getting. I know you I know like I definitely know this that they're not getting that enough for the work that they're putting in and you know the expenses that they have to take on. 283 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:24,000 So yeah this is it brings back to the point that this is exactly why we're doing this this 24 hour and asked to bring attention to to this specific problem for semi so specifically to further build this because yeah we all like we're all motivated because you know it's it's cool things that we're doing. 284 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:33,000 But at the end of the day we need you know we need sats and money to survive. So yeah I completely agree with you man. 285 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:41,000 I definitely think that the paywalls with the fee is a super powerful monetization tool. 286 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:55,000 And it's needed for for us creators as well like yeah I definitely benefit from it to be able to use it. I know I know a lot of people would to be honest. 287 00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:15,000 Yeah, I, and I'm honestly I'm like, I have no ideas for new things just because like I'm waiting for other things that are like in the pipelines to like finish getting built and stuff like that. Like what I'm most excited for to be honest is like private DMS like really private 288 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:25,000 DMS I don't know if that's ever going to happen. I don't, I don't think that's a, I don't think the standard of like the protocol allows that to happen. 289 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:39,000 Like because I discussed that with somebody and they told me now that's always going to be public information like yeah you're not going to be able to see the messages but you can definitely always see who this and pub speaks to you know what other 290 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:52,000 and pubs this and pub speaks to basically and the amount of like messages that transpire between them in the conversation. And I don't know I just, I always find that a little weird but whatever it is what it is. 291 00:34:52,000 --> 00:35:05,000 But if there's a nip that makes that more private that makes a tech, because I know nips have their own events and stuff like that, that creates a different event that is a more private event that doesn't allow that to happen. 292 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:20,000 That's even possible, maybe I'm just talking shit. But if somebody could figure that shit out, it would be super useful, as well as, I think it's a called nip 40. I forgot what it's called. 293 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,000 I'll tell you right now if I can find it. 294 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,000 But the one that's used for Nostra chat. 295 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,000 Nip 42 maybe. 296 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:39,000 That's a cool nip to implement I think all clients should have a version of this, where you could have like channels. 297 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:55,000 And in those channels you can have messages that are specific kind that don't get, you know, posted in your profile, and you could actually have messages with a ton of people inside your own little channel. 298 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,000 That's pretty cool. Reminds me of like telegram or something like that. 299 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:04,000 But yeah, that's all I got. Tanow, if you have any, anything you want to say? 300 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,000 If not, then Kieran. 301 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:18,000 Yeah, more than anything I'm just really really excited to see what you guys got coming up in the pipeline because I personally like the web clients so so much. 302 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:25,000 I'm such a big fan of it, especially this, this actual design of it and everything. Yeah. 303 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:32,000 But at the end of the day, I'm just really really happy to have you on here. 304 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,000 Thanks for having me on. 305 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:54,000 It's definitely one that I am annoyed about, you know, like, not having private DMS, it's really bothering you know because you know this, Nostra Marketplace and stuff like those proposals rely on this, the same nip for DMS and like, I don't really want to implement the marketplace because I was thinking of implementing 306 00:36:54,000 --> 00:37:00,000 marketplace for snore, but like the DMS are still, they're not private enough. 307 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:08,000 Because people could start using it and not realize that you know, it's basically public information. 308 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:28,000 But again about DMS, it's like, there definitely are ways to make it more private it's just like, there's always some kind of trade off like the way the DMS work right now is like, it fits in with how relays work, because relays essentially need to know, like, who you're, who you're messaging or like, 309 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:41,000 because you have to tag them right if you're sending a DM, you have to tag their pub key and then whenever you're, whenever you want to load your own DMS like the people who are tagging you then you have to say hey give me, give me events which are tagging me. 310 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:48,000 So like you kind of need to know each party, you know that's the only way that relays can actually give you the information that you want. 311 00:37:48,000 --> 00:38:00,000 You can't say like hey give me, give me the DMS to me but like you don't even know who DM me, it's like it's not possible for the relay to give you that information, you know those events because it won't know who DM you. 312 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:09,000 But there are other ways of doing it by kind of, you know, wrapping, you know, doing it in layers essentially. That's one way of doing it. 313 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:20,000 Where you have like, like an encrypted, you know, you create, you create one event and then it's, it has some information in it but it's encrypted. 314 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:33,000 And then like everything after that will be kind of like anonymized or using different keys or some kind of scheme like that where you're not actually using your real pub key you're using like another key that was generated just for this chat. 315 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:44,000 And that's, you know, there are many proposals, there are so many that I don't even know, and I'm probably not doing them justice by saying it like that but that's that's how I see that they, they are approaching this issue. 316 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:53,000 It's like, you have to use a different key essentially, you know, that's the only way to, to gain privacy on DMs. It's like you have to not be yourself. 317 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,000 That's the only option you really have in terms of DM privacy. 318 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:03,000 Wow, that's pretty crazy. You, and also you just made me think of something. 319 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:17,000 What, what maybe having a, like, you know, I don't know if you've ever done this but sending a DM to just like one relay and maybe you having that relay. 320 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:29,000 Would people still be able to like, because if they're not able to connect to that really well. I don't know. Oh, yeah, you can still you can limit people from actually reading a specific really I remember that. 321 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:39,000 So if you have a private really, and let's say this is the, this is your really and this is the really that you want to use to DM, wherever you want to DM. 322 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:51,000 Is that, is that a possibility to keep yourself and on on there. If I read from there. There is like that that nip off, you know, nip 40, I think it's 42 no nip 40. 323 00:39:51,000 --> 00:40:06,000 I don't remember which one I think it's 42. To be honest, the, the auth one. Yeah, that's, that's supposed to be like one of the mitigations to this is like the relay won't give you the DMS unless you're, you know, you're really the person that owns the key. 324 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:15,000 And that's one way of like restricting who can actually fetch those events is like to to prove your, your, your pub you own the pub key. 325 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:33,000 And then it's like okay well then it can release them but you know that's not really perfect either because relays usually share, you know, or they like, they're not really securely, you know storing these DMS, you know, their relays or operators are sharing them or making backups 326 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:50,000 So there's other ways for those events to get leaked you know like it's not, it's not guaranteed that those events will never leak, you know, so it's not really super secure it's okay for like maybe just regular DMS you know between people who are not being targeted, essentially. 327 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:56,000 But, yeah, it's not it's not a perfect solution. 328 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:03,000 I understand. I understand. I really appreciate that answer. 329 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:09,000 Are you down to open up the floor to maybe some live q amp a. Yeah, sure. 330 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:17,000 Awesome. So, audience members if you like, you could press that little hand right there in the bottom. 331 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:24,000 And we'll bring you right up to the stage, and you can ask a question, if you like. 332 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:32,000 And we'll give you some time. 333 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:37,000 Honestly, I don't even know why I decided to do this I feel like shit right now. 334 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,000 But it's all good. We're fucking we're gonna persevere. 335 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:49,000 Yeah, just don't think that this is only the halfway point, just forget about that. 336 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:55,000 I posted that I'm having like speaking issues already. This is difficult as well. Much more difficult than I expected. 337 00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:01,000 But so, especially guys, please help us out with any kinds of questions that you might have. 338 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:07,000 Yes, guys, come on, we need to save our voice. We have 12 more. 339 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:15,000 I think it's I think it's no it's 13 actually. Sorry, it's 13 more hours. It's 12 slots 13 hours. 340 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:23,000 13 more hours. Holy moly. I think Tony has a question. Yes, bring Tony up man. Oh my god. 341 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:28,000 Tony save us. 342 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:37,000 I think Tony's up next as well. Tony refresh if you can because we I'm not getting anything at least from my side. 343 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,000 You guys got anything? Tano? Not hearing anything myself. 344 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:47,000 Tony, try to refresh. Yeah, try to refresh brother. 345 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,000 Your browser. Try to refresh your browser brother. 346 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,000 If you can, just refresh it. 347 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,000 Please. 348 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,000 No. 349 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:04,000 All right, Tony, I know your mic is open, but we cannot hear you. 350 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,000 Can you hear us? 351 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:14,000 Gives a sign signs of life brother with emojis. 352 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,000 No, I'll bring you down and then I'll bring you back up. 353 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,000 All right, spiral, you're on. 354 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:29,000 I just wanted to say that I could hear him just a moment ago, but then when I jumped on stage, I couldn't hear him. So I'm not sure what that's about. 355 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,000 Seriously? 356 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,000 Yeah, maybe refresh. 357 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:39,000 Wait, let me see if you were able to hear Tony. 358 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,000 No, I didn't hear anything. 359 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:49,000 No. Tony, try again brother. 360 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:54,000 You want to unmute real quick? 361 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,000 Tano, did you put on spiral down or did he go down by himself? 362 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,000 I didn't put him down. He went down himself. 363 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,000 Okay. Tony, you don't. 364 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,000 Okay. 365 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,000 Tony, feel free to try it out. 366 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:14,000 If not, we're most likely getting back to you as soon as possible, I guess. 367 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:20,000 Tony actually has a 6 a.m. slot, so he's pretty sure he does, right? 368 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,000 I think so, yeah. 369 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,000 Yeah, Tony. 370 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,000 Yeah, I think it's Tony and then it's Avi, right? 371 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:32,000 Roya, I'm sure you have any questions for Kieran. 372 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:37,000 Roya gets VIP treatment. She gets up here. 373 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,000 No need to put her hand up. She's here. 374 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,000 Uh-oh. 375 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,000 Oh, that's pretty late for her. Let me not do her like that. 376 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,000 All right, Roya, I'm sorry. 377 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,000 Okay, so let me put Tony back down. 378 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,000 Damn, my voice. Holy shit. 379 00:44:55,000 --> 00:45:02,000 Kieran, by any chance, do you want to say anything else that hasn't been mentioned so far? 380 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:11,000 About the client, about Nostra, about anything you like? 381 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,000 I got nothing, sorry. 382 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:18,000 You got nothing? It's all good. It's all good. I appreciate you. 383 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:23,000 Oh, man. This is great. This is great. Not gonna lie, this is great. 384 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:29,000 This is my weekend now, so I'm trying to switch off as much as possible. 385 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:37,000 A couple of weeks ago, I was not taking any breaks. I was doing seven days. 386 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,000 Holy shit. 387 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:44,000 And I was just so overloaded. I couldn't escape Nostra. 388 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,000 Every day, apparently, I was talking in my sleep about Nostra. 389 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,000 Oh, my God. 390 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,000 So I need to make sure that I switch off correctly. 391 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,000 That's insane. I dream. I dream of my timeline sometimes. 392 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,000 I thought that was just me, though. Wow, Kieran. 393 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,000 I was working every day. I was doing something. 394 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,000 I was pushing code every single day for two or three months straight. 395 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:13,000 I was like, this is crazy. I need to stop. 396 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,000 God damn. 397 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,000 What are your plans for the weekend if you don't mind us asking? 398 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,000 It's kind of rainy and stuff, so I don't know what I'm going to do with my kids. 399 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,000 But yeah, I don't know. We have to clean that every Saturday. 400 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:31,000 We clean the entire house. So that's what I'm going to do next after this. 401 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,000 Nice. Yeah, we'll see what happens. I don't usually make plans. 402 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:39,000 I just make things up on the spot and just go with that. 403 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,000 Nice. Yeah. 404 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,000 I think no specific plans anyway. 405 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:51,000 Nice. That's usually our motto and our format for the Frog Talk. 406 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,000 We usually don't even... we just go with the flow. 407 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:55,000 Yeah, why not? 408 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,000 No questions written down. No nothing. 409 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,000 And this was like... 410 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,000 Blank mind. Everything. 411 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,000 Literally. Literally. 412 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,000 Well, even like when I... you know, because I'm working full time on Snort, right? 413 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,000 Like I'll bring my kids to school and stuff and I'll do all of that. 414 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,000 And then I'll come back to the house and I'll sit at the computer. 415 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,000 I'm like, OK, what the fuck am I going to do today? I have no idea. 416 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:30,000 It's like, you know, I'm either in the middle of something else, like, you know, in the middle of building something else, 417 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,000 like the, you know, like I said, I'm working on subscriptions or my mind is completely blank. 418 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,000 So it's like, it's kind of crazy. 419 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:42,000 Like every day I could just be working on something completely unexpected. 420 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,000 That's amazing, man. 421 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:49,000 Oh, well, does it even feel like work at this point? 422 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,000 No, not really. 423 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,000 Isn't that beautiful? 424 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,000 It is, yeah. 425 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:04,000 Some people just like, you know, they go all their lives, they, you know, doing something that they don't really like doing. 426 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,000 So they do it for... 427 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,000 Yeah, most people, right? And they do it for almost the same amount of time, right? It's crazy. 428 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:16,000 Yeah, it's sad, honestly. 429 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:21,000 Yeah, society. That's what society wants. They want the worker bees. 430 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,000 Yeah. Yeah, that's... 431 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:34,000 And the problem stands from, you know, from the very, from the very roots, like the education system is largely to blame, along with, you know, a lot of society. 432 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,000 That's where it all starts. 433 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,000 Yeah. 434 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,000 That's where the worker bee mentality starts. 435 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:48,000 Exactly. Exactly. That's why, you know, if I'm ever going to have a kid, he's, he or she is definitely not going to public school, my brother. 436 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,000 Yeah. 437 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,000 There's no way. 438 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:56,000 I wish I could like homeschool my kids, but you know. 439 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,000 Oh, yeah. 440 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,000 Kind of busy. 441 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,000 No, I definitely feel you on that. 442 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:12,000 But then there was points where I was like, maybe I should just like, not, you know, just do it anyway, you know? 443 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,000 Yeah. 444 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,000 Yeah. 445 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:23,000 Well, I don't know what it's like in where you're from, but here it's, you know, they are very kind of... 446 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:29,000 Well, I'm a fella. It's pretty shitty over here. 447 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,000 No, I think here it's not too bad. It's not like, you know, complete brainwashing. 448 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:40,000 But yeah, of course, there's a lot of... 449 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,000 It's like just a system, right? 450 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:47,000 Like they have to do things a certain way so that it's efficient to teach like 30 kids all at once. 451 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:56,000 But yeah, it's not like crazy to the point where, you know, they're basically just bees. 452 00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:00,000 Yeah. 453 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,000 I agree. 454 00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,000 Stake, you have a question? 455 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,000 Oh man, I just got rugged. 456 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,000 All right. Cool. 457 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,000 So Stake came up just to like get my feelings, you know, just whatever. 458 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,000 It's all good. 459 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:19,000 I appreciate you. 460 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,000 But yeah, I agree with you, Kieran. 461 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,000 It's fucking crazy, man. 462 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,000 But yeah, here in Florida, I'm not going to like... 463 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,000 I hope I don't have kids here, to be honest. 464 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,000 I definitely want to... 465 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,000 I think I've listened to... 466 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,000 What's his name? 467 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,000 Magoo way too much. 468 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:48,000 And I kind of definitely want to like leave the country and just go be sovereign somewhere else that actually values you, right? 469 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,000 Because here there's this... 470 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,000 I don't know, man. 471 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,000 This state right here doesn't like... 472 00:50:55,000 --> 00:51:03,000 It doesn't value you the same way that somewhere else, like another country, will open their hands for you, you know? 473 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,000 And not make things a total bitch. 474 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,000 Like not make everything a hassle. 475 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,000 You know what I mean? 476 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:10,000 I don't know. 477 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,000 But yeah, definitely. 478 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,000 I don't know. 479 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,000 I'm completely falling in love with Costa Rica. 480 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:21,000 So that's an obvious option, to be honest. 481 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,000 If I ever want to go. 482 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:29,000 I was completely amazed with Costa Rica as well. 483 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,000 It's pretty amazing there, honestly. 484 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:37,000 And I would say that you should definitely have kids or plan to have kids because that's super important. 485 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,000 Oh, yeah. 486 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,000 It's definitely like... 487 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,000 Yeah. 488 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:48,000 When I think about it, my number one goal is to have a family, for sure. 489 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,000 Above anything else. 490 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,000 I definitely want a healthy family. 491 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:59,000 But I obviously want to be prepared to take care of them. 492 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,000 You know what I mean? 493 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:08,000 And I don't think this environment is going to be the best for nourishment. 494 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:13,000 So yeah, that's where I'm at currently. 495 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,000 Just swing it, honestly. 496 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,000 Just swing it? 497 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,000 Oh, man. 498 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,000 Yeah. 499 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,000 I'm also 25, Kieran. 500 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:32,000 So would the advice be any different now that you know my age? 501 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,000 I mean, I had my first kid when I was 25. 502 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,000 Oh, shit. 503 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,000 Yeah, just swing it, bro. 504 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:39,000 It's fine. 505 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,000 I am not ready, Kieran. 506 00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,000 No one's ready, okay? 507 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,000 I keep hearing that, god damn it. 508 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,000 Yo, holy shit. 509 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,000 But I'm really not ready. 510 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:56,000 Like, you know how bad it is that I'm not even slightly ready? 511 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,000 Like, holy shit, 10 out. 512 00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:58,000 Please jump in. 513 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:09,000 10 out? 514 00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,000 Did I lose my phones? 515 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,000 I think another rap overridden my microphone. 516 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:18,000 I said it's time to start seeking, buddy. 517 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,000 Oh, my god. 518 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,000 You got to prepare yourself and get ready. 519 00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,000 Come on, man. 520 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,000 Sir. 521 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,000 You're 25. 522 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:26,000 Sir. 523 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,000 You're doing me, man. 524 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:29,000 Sir. 525 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,000 It's time to have fun. 526 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,000 It's time to have fun. 527 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,000 We can't be doing that out here. 528 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,000 Come on. 529 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,000 Back to Pepe's it is. 530 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:38,000 Back to Pepe's. 531 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,000 Back to the lab, guys. 532 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,000 No, but seriously, yeah, I definitely agree with you, Kieran. 533 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,000 And yeah, I got to be more honest with myself. 534 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,000 I'm never going to be fucking completely ready. 535 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,000 Who the fuck is, you know, like, I'm not a perfectionist. 536 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:53,000 I know that's not going to happen. 537 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,000 I'm not going to have the house. 538 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:59,000 I'm not going to have the, you know, the money, the car, you know, all this shit, like prior to. 539 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:06,000 No, like most of the time, you know, yeah, you do build together and yeah, you'll get like, I know what you mean. 540 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,000 I know what you mean. 541 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,000 I know what you mean. 542 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,000 I just what I feel like is that Florida is not the place. 543 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,000 That's kind of where I want to like to leave it at. 544 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,000 I'm in the wrong state. 545 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,000 I didn't mean to put you on the spot. 546 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,000 You're good. 547 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,000 Florida is not the place. 548 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:26,000 It's okay. 549 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:27,000 It's okay. 550 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:28,000 You're going to be okay. 551 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,000 You're going to be okay, buddy. 552 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:31,000 No, I'm not. 553 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:36,000 All right, Kieran fucking loved having you on, brother. 554 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,000 This is so much fun. 555 00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:48,000 I hope you don't, you know, I hope you keep doing what you're doing, man, because honestly, like we we we fucking love it. 556 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:53,000 Snort is was my first desktop client and it'll probably be my last. 557 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,000 So keep going. 558 00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,000 We'd love to see it. 559 00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:09,000 And I'm going to be going to be interacting with you a lot more because I you like memes and I like memes and you need, you know, a break from time to time. 560 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:15,000 Now that you tell me that you're working seven days a week nonstop, I'm definitely going to be sending you more memes, man. 561 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:21,000 You need a break. So I really appreciate you. 562 00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,000 Yeah, it's been fun. Thanks for having me on. 563 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,000 And hopefully we can do something similar again. 564 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:36,000 I mean, people were spending all our time typing messages and maybe it is better that we all just talk, you know, and I haven't really been joining a lot of these mess and stuff. 565 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,000 So, yeah, I don't know. 566 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,000 Maybe you should do more. 567 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,000 Hell, yeah. Hell, yeah. 568 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:47,000 I've heard about an infamous get together that happened here maybe like in December. 569 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,000 Is that true that you guys were using utilizing not sure. 570 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,000 Ask back then. 571 00:55:53,000 --> 00:56:03,000 December, maybe December, November, maybe Derek mentioned something about the whole crew being here. 572 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,000 I believe it was you will be told. 573 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:11,000 I'm hanging out and chatting on here. I was not in December. Yeah. 574 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:17,000 Why did it feel like longer? Yeah. 575 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,000 He's like, here's like, nah, that's a year ago. 576 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,000 That's like crazy. 577 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,000 It's like a faint memory already. 578 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,000 Oh my God. That's, you know, that's so funny. 579 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:32,000 Austin, me and Austin met maybe a week ago and we both could have sworn it was a month ago. 580 00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:39,000 It's insane. Nostra is really doing something to our to our to that clock that we have inside of us. 581 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:43,000 It's crazy. Oh my God. My dog just woke up. 582 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:48,000 But yeah, Kieran, I really, really appreciate you taking the time to hang out with us. 583 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:53,000 It was lovely. We definitely got to do this again. 584 00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:58,000 We're most likely going to do another frog talk next month because we're psychopaths. 585 00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:02,000 And we love the, you know, the development going on here. 586 00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,000 So we want to support it in any way we can. 587 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:11,000 And if it means losing sleep and hanging out with you guys, then fuck yeah, we'll do it every single time. 588 00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:16,000 Appreciate you, Kieran. We'll talk to you very soon, brother. 589 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:20,000 Thank you. It was absolutely amazing having you on, Kieran. 590 00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:28,000 Thanks guys. Bye bye. Thank you, Kieran. Peace. Bye. Peace.