We see a lot of other co -occurring mental health
issues in betrayal trauma, and sometimes it takes
clinicians and providers a long time to tease
it out. Some of the symptoms overlap so significantly,
right? Betrayal trauma and ADHD, betrayal trauma
and OCD. I mean, the symptoms can be the same.
Sometimes there's actually something more going
on than the betrayal trauma itself. On today's
podcast, we had a therapist named Elizabeth Abruzzay,
and I'm just really in love with her name. You
remembered how to say it. I took notes. I made
little, you know, little lines, the little squiggle,
you know, whatever. So yeah, Elizabeth Abruzzay,
she is a co -owner of a clinic up in Bellevue,
Washington. that I met or we've connected with
her through the APSATS organization. And we had
a fascinating talk about an intensive that she
and her partners created for betrayed women.
And it was an amazing conversation and it just
kind of built, it grew, it got better. The more
questions we asked, wouldn't you say? I would
say, yeah, I would say for anyone who's looking
for that fast forward button. This is your podcast
to listen to. Oh, I love that you said that because
I remember right after D -Day going, I just want
to be, I want to be a month from now. I want
time to move quickly. I think I make reference
to it in the podcast. I don't know. We had a
lot of pre and post recording conversations,
but I think I made reference to the fact that
I wish I had had this so long ago. If I had had
this type of resource, the things that she introduces
into this podcast. I would have definitely have
pursued my healing a little differently. And
I just wish I would have had these intensives
that she offers. For those of you that are even
in the beginning, we talked about this too, whether
you're in the beginning or even several years
into the process, if you're in the beginning
or if you feel stuck in your healing journey,
yes, yes, this is your podcast. You did make
that comment, something about, oh, I wish I would
have known about this. I would have done it so
long ago. And here's the good news. As we practice
gratitude, which in our brain science, and she
does go into some amazing brain science, but
anxiety and gratitude cannot coexist because
they come from the same place in the brain. So
ladies, as we practice gratitude. Remember Dr.
Laura's episode 15, she talks about this if you
want to refresh her on it, but that the antidote
to depression and anxiety is gratitude. One of
the things I'm grateful for is the resources
and opportunities we have available to us now,
right now today, that weren't even in existence
a year ago, because ladies, this intensive just
started a year ago. So we are getting more and
more, I have full body chills right now, we are
getting more and more resources, opportunities,
intensives, trained coaches, trained therapists
that are experts in this field, whereas this
was an unknown territory just even 10 years ago.
What's great about this also is for anybody that's
in the Pacific Northwest, there isn't anything
like this available until now. So if you are
listening from the Pacific Northwest, know that
these in -person intensives are available. But
not only do they offer that, but they've got
some other things that they can offer as well
if you're not in this area. And she talks a little
bit about that. Yeah. And a new therapy called
ETT, emotional... Transformation Therapy. And
it's groundbreaking and apparently comes at trauma
from a whole different direction. We had a long
conversation with Elizabeth post -roll and we're
super excited about this. I kind of want to go
road trip up to Bellevue and tour their clinic
and meet her partners because they're onto something
here. So enjoy this podcast, friends. Be encouraged
that there's so much out there that's available
to help us heal. Hello, everyone. Welcome to
the Betrayal Recovery Transformation Podcast,
where we talk about all things betrayal, all
things recovery, and all things transformation.
I'm your host, Kris Rocha, and I'm here with
my spiritual bestie, Jen Howey. Hey, Jen. That's
funny. You said spiritual bestie, and the very
first thing that popped into my head was trusty
steed. But I think that's because I've been watching
too many episodes of Toy Story 2 with my grandson.
And Bullseye is his trusty steed. But Gertrude
Busty is much better. I'll take that. I stole
that from you, but I just wrote down trusty steed
for future use. Because, you know, fun fact,
listeners, if you haven't picked it up yet, I'm
trying to introduce Jen in a new creative way
every time. It's kind of the amusement, the novelty
I'm adding to the beginning of the podcast. Yes.
Hi, Jen. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. What
was it? Uh, spiritual bestie. Yes, absolutely.
And you are my spiritual best friend. You are
the woman who sharpens me. And, um, speaking
of women that sharpen women are today's guests.
Um, I mean, we haven't even recorded this podcast
yet, but just from, from the pre -recording that
we did already, um, this is, this is going to
be a fun one. We are pre -roll besties with our
guests today already. I feel it. I feel the connection.
Yes. Yeah. It's beautiful. Okay. Take it away,
Jen. Who are we talking to today? We're talking
to Elizabeth. Elizabeth, how do you say your
last name? Great question. No one knows how to
pronounce it. So no problem. It's Abruze. Abruze.
That sounds very fancy. Italian. Italian. I would
not. Okay. Yes. I love it. All right. Here we
go with Elizabeth Abruze. You got it. She's the
co -founder and clinical director of the Bellevue
Trauma Recovery Center. She holds an MA in clinical
mental health counseling from Gonzaga University.
I don't know why I said it like that. And she's
honed her clinical focus on addressing relational
trauma, notably betrayal trauma. She's acquired
significant expertise in the treatment of problematic
sexual behaviors and sex addiction, recognizing
the profound impact of these patterns on relationships.
Elizabeth is one of the primary therapists for
the Resilience Through Betrayal intensive programs
in Bellevue, Washington, which is what she's
here to talk with us about today. Welcome to
the podcast, Elizabeth. We're so happy to have
you. Thank you so much. I'm honored to be here.
Your podcast is such a great resource for so
many of our clients. This is very exciting. What
do you do in Bellevue when you're not helping
women be resilient? Oh, that is a good question.
I actually don't live in Bellevue. Our office
is just here. So to be honest, I don't spend
that much time in Bellevue. However, right across
the street from our office is a beautiful park,
Crossroads Park, and it has an amazing walking
trail. playground and splash pads for kids. And
so it's a fun spot over here. Nice. Yeah. And
you're not too far away from one of my favorite
places on the planet. And that is Bellingham,
Washington. Yeah, not too far. Yeah. Beautiful,
beautiful country up there. Elizabeth, would
you tell us a little bit about yourself just
personally? How did you get into this line of
work and, and what's your passion? And yeah.
That's a good question. I actually kind of fell
into this work, to be honest. I know a lot of
people get into working with betrayal trauma.
for personal reasons, or it's part of their story.
That is not the case with me. After graduate
school, I was working in some community -based
mental health programs. I worked in a residential
adolescent program, was working in the hospital
systems. And one of my best friends from college,
who's actually my roommate, called me and was
like, hey, you know, the practice I'm working
for is hiring, and I really think that you should
come work for us. She was in her PsyD program
at the time, working towards becoming a psychologist.
And I was like, okay, you know, I'm not necessarily
looking for a new job, but also where I was working
had really high burnout. And so I was looking
for something a little bit different. And this
happened to be a clinic that specialized in sex
addiction, betrayal, trauma recovery. And I just
got connected to them through this. She was actually
my college roommate. And so that's how I kind
of fell into this therapeutic setting. And I
started out really working primarily with men
with problematic sexual behaviors and teens.
So I still do a lot of teen and family work where
there's betrayal in the family system. But over
the years, I just kind of slowly started shifting
my niche more towards betrayal trauma because
that was the group that I was most drawn to and
most enjoyed. working with, particularly, I think,
because of the complex trauma. You know, my training
is in trauma therapy. That's how I view things
therapeutically through a trauma lens. And so
that was just kind of how I fell into it. Nice.
That's beautiful. So tell us a little bit about
how the Resilience Through Betrayal Intensive
came to be. You and I just met, I'd mentioned
earlier, it sounds intensive. And do you remember,
and what was your response to that? It's intensive
healing. Just reframe it a little bit. It is
intensive therapy, but it's intensive healing.
And there's so much relief, I think, on the other
side of it. So I tried to reframe it. So it feels
maybe a little less intimidating to people who
are interested in participating. It actually
started just as an idea. My two business partners
and colleagues and now two of my best friends
who I own this practice with now, the Bellevue
Trauma Recovery Center, the BTRC, is what we
typically refer to the practice as. And we were
just noticing. like a missing part in the treatment
that was really accessible to our clients um
all three of us worked with betrayal trauma and
sex addiction and so many days after um work
we would just be sitting there at the end of
the day like how do we how do we help these women
like how do we give them more support? How do
we create a structure where they can heal faster?
And intensive programs have existed for a long
time, and there are some really fantastic programs
generally across the country, but there really
aren't any intensive therapy programs for betrayal
trauma in the Pacific Northwest. And so we had
so many clients who we wanted to send to intensive
programs, but they were really far away. Maybe
they were too long. You know, these women didn't
need 45 -day residential programs. They just
needed like, you know, a few days or a week of
something to jumpstart the recovery or something
to get them unstuck from those stuck points of
the trauma. And we didn't have anywhere to send
our clients. And so that's really when we started
thinking about just developing the program ourselves.
You know, if it doesn't exist somewhere else
and our clients need it, other people need it
as well. So that's kind of how it all started.
So this isn't just a recovery program for those
who are in the very beginning. You had mentioned
if someone's stuck, that this might be a good
resource as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think
that it's really appropriate. Honestly, no matter
where someone is at in their recovery process,
it's going to be helpful. Depending on what stage
you're in, you're just going to take away different
messages. It can be very helpful early in recovery
just because the trauma symptoms are so severe.
And so a program like this really helps with
some rapid trauma integration. It's going to
decrease those symptoms. But it's also really,
really helpful for clients who are feeling stuck
in the trauma therapy world. And I'm sure you
all hear this with some of your coaching clients
as well. You'll hear people say, I know this
thing to be true, but I feel this thing to be
true. And they contradict each other, right?
It's when the brain and the body are not matching.
Our mind and emotions are not aligned. And that's
what trauma therapy does, is it integrates those
two things. It gets you unstuck so that you can
move forward where your emotions start to match
the thoughts that you know to be true. And so
it's very helpful for people who are post -disclosure
or who are... maybe in a place where their husband
has done some really great recovery work and
they're wanting to rebuild trust, but the trauma
symptoms are preventing them from being able
to rebuild that connection in a way that feels
good. It's helpful for women who have chosen
to separate and are going through the divorce
process. And, you know, they have this whole
new world and whole new life ahead of them that
is very, very different than what they have experienced.
And, you know. integrating into a world post
-separation or post -divorce is really challenging
in and of itself and so you know working through
the different traumas from the relationship that
you are leaving so that you know then you can
can show up in your life in a way that feels
really um really consistent with your value system
and who you want to be and and connect with other
people in a way that you're not still holding
such significant trauma with you. I'm 12 years
in. Can I come? Of course. We have clients who
have been, you know, in therapy and in this recovery
process for 15 to 20 years. You know, some clients
that we've had, we've had multiple clients in
their 70s participate in this program. Yeah,
some are still married. Some have chosen to leave
their relationships. It just it's it's a program
for everyone. It really is. And I think, you
know, having a mix of of clients in these programs
where people are at different stages is also
very helpful because someone new in recovery
gets to see someone who has been in it for a
while. So they can they can see like, OK, it
does get better. OK, there is hope here. Or,
you know, there are also clients who are new
in recovery who see someone else in our program
who is maybe 10 years into it. and still really
struggling. And it helps them discern what they
want their treatment to look like, how much time
and energy and honestly finances too, because
it is expensive. They want to invest early on
in recovery up front. It just helps people figure
out, you know, how best to take care of themselves.
I love it. I remember when you and I were talking
several weeks back, Elizabeth, and about what
do these intensives look like? And I said, are
there croissants? You know, because I've heard
about these intensives where they're super bougie
and there's like gift packages that you take
home. And, you know, we don't care about that.
We just want to be able to breathe again. when
D -Day happens or whatever stage we're in. Could
you tell us, share with our listeners, what does
a typical agenda look like with this intensive?
Yeah, so although we are not very bougie, we
are a very clinical program. There are croissants.
We do cater breakfast and lunch for everyone.
That includes croissants from a French bakery
we have down the street, which are very lovely.
But we are a therapy program. We are a trauma
therapy program. So this is not... You see a
lot of betrayal trauma retreats, a lot of programs
where all the women stay in a house together,
and maybe there's a lot of different yoga options
or group activities or things like that, which
are wonderful programs. Our program is just not
that. It's very different. So it is really, really
a therapy -based program. Not a retreat. I like
that. Not a retreat. Yes. That's kind of how
I distinguish it. It is an intensive therapy
program. It is not a retreat. And so for the
first three, it's a three and a half day program.
The first three days, it's about eight hours
of therapy each day. So it is intense. We start
out with a group in the morning. That group is
more of a process group. So it's a lot of story
sharing and connecting and drawing common experiences
that's facilitated by our therapists here. And
then each client will have a two hour trauma
therapy block. So that's an individual session.
It's an individual two hour session. And then
another group, which is more of a psychoeducation
group. So we have specific topics that we discuss.
And then we end each day with what we call an
alternative healing activity. So that's different
depending on. the time of year, depending on
what clinicians are available in our area. This
is a part of the program that we actually contract
outside of our practice to do because we want
to bring in other providers and get some diversity
and variety. So sometimes that's a trauma -informed
yoga class. Sometimes that's a sound bath. Sometimes
that's a mindfulness activity or meditation.
We have one clinician that we contract with who
does Gosh, I don't even necessarily know if I
have the right terminology for it, but it's almost
like a horticulture exercise where, you know,
you're planting things and digging in the dirt.
And it's cool. It ends up being kind of like
a metaphor for the grief process is that specific
activity. But we end the day with something very
down -regulating, calming, relaxing to help that
really good trauma integration and send everyone
off on their way. get a good night's sleep and
come back refreshed. So there's no homework that
you take back to your hotel room? No, the only
homework we give is to journal. And that could
be for 30 seconds. It can be very brief. It can
even be done while you're still in the office.
It's just an important part of like the post
-trauma therapy work. It helps your brain integrate
even. faster and more. It just increases the
efficacy of your trauma therapy. So even if it's
just a couple of sentences, we really encourage
people to journal. But outside of that, no homework
at all. You're doing enough work during the day.
Your homework is to rest. I'm sorry, did you
already say how many days? It's three and a half
days. So those first three days are that structure
that I just outlined. And then the last day is
a short day. You just meet with your individual
therapist for an outtake session. So we really
wrap up the whole program. We provide treatment
recommendations moving forward. Part of this
intensive program as well is that we collaborate
with outside clinicians who work with the clients
coming to our intensive program. So anyone who
participates in the Resilience Through Betrayal
Intensive is required to be in some sort of outpatient
therapy or coaching program because we don't
want to send people off into the world without
continued support. That does not have to be with
us. It can be with the provider that they already
have. If they have not connected with a provider
yet, we can offer that service ourselves. But
if we have clients who do work with providers
outside of our clinic, part of that process is
we collaborate. before the intensive and after
the intensive with those providers to make sure
that we've got continuity of care. We send them
with treatment recommendations, all sorts of
things like that. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah.
I do love the horticultural piece. Yeah. I'll
never forget my friend Jen coming over and saying,
this looks like one of the best examples of self
-care I've ever seen. Do you remember that, Jen?
And it's amazing. It is the most amazing garden
ever. Thank you. It reminds me too of that. And
I have this image in front of me, but Psalm 126
verses four through six say, restore our fortunes,
Lord, as streams renew the desert. Those who
plant in tears will harvest with shouts of joy.
They weep as they go to plant their seed, but
they sing as they return with the harvest. I
love that image of planting and getting our fingers
in the dirt and doing hard things and coming
back with great results. Yeah, that message of
resilience. Yes, absolutely. So what would you
say is the first thing a client needs to experience
at RTP? Probably safety. I mean, I think we were
really hard to establish safety very early on.
A lot of the clients who participate in these
programs don't have a lot of emotional safety,
don't have safety in their home sometimes even
or with their families. So we try our best to
create an environment that is very warm and welcoming.
And, you know, myself and the two other owners
of the practice, my friends, Connie and Jessica,
we spent hours even trying to figure out how
are we decorating our group room? What colors
do we put in this lobby? Anything we can do to
create an immediate sense of safety. When people
arrive, we have a little bit of just kind of
an orientation period, just 15 to 20 minutes.
Grab your croissant, get a coffee or a tea. You
know, here's where the restrooms are. This is
the space you are going to be in. And just really
making sure that everyone feels comfortable and
some sense of safety before jumping into the
program. Because it's terrifying, you know. Day
one is just full of nerves, especially that first
group. By day three, they're best friends and
on a group chat and, you know, good to go. Walking
into a room like that is really difficult. And
so anything that we can do to ease that, that
anxiety is important. Yeah. Do you find that
women form lifelong friendships through these
intensives or that inner circle? Yeah. Our program
is relatively new. We've only been running it
for about a year. So I can't exactly speak to
a lifelong friendship. However, I imagine, you
know, I do know that most of our groups have
shared contact information and do remain in touch
just from the clients we still have in the clinic.
And it's cool because we've started to get a
reputation even outside of Washington. So we
do have people who fly in from other states to
participate in our program. And I think there's
another element that really creates some safety
for our intensive clients, and especially in
keeping in touch after the program, that they
don't run in the same social circles. You know,
Seattle is a big city, but it's a small city
and everyone knows everyone and different communities
overlap. And I think that is part of the anxiety
that people come into these programs with. You
know, I get a lot of questions from people as
they're signing up for a program. What if I know
someone? You know, do you know the names of all
of the yoga teachers that are going to be coming?
Because I have a friend who's a yoga teacher
in your area and I'm worried that that's going
to be who you hire to run this class. So there's
a lot of fear there. However, we've never had
anyone in our program who they show up and they
do know each other. And I imagine if that did
happen, it would probably be a really healing
experience. But I do know that that is some anxiety
for people. So being able to connect with other
women who have shared experiences that are parts
of different communities, I think it's a really
cool opportunity. It would be fun to have a reunion
five years down the road where... these women
are coming in and experiencing the post -traumatic
growth, you know, and I would just, I'm excited
to hear about where this goes for you guys. Yeah.
I will say the number one piece of feedback we
get, we send out feedback forms at the end of
every intensive where we're always changing and
growing and developing. And we want to make sure
that the program is, you know, catering to the
needs of our clients. And we send out feedback
forms and the number one piece of feedback, and
we get this every single time. is we want an
alumni program. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It is something
that we've been talking about, thinking about
a lot. And, you know, hopefully next year won't
happen as often as our typical resilience through
betrayal program. But I do think that that is
in that's in the cards for us. Love it. That's
so great. Yeah. I've got a question, but I've
got a side question first. So you and I met through
the APSATS organization and you talked about
establishing safety is the number one thing that
women need to experience right off the bat with
this intensive. And so I'm curious because we've
talked about APSATS, just sort of mentioned it,
but as a clinician, as a therapist, Elizabeth,
would you mind sharing with our listeners? what
the APSATS organization is about, how that has
influenced your practice and kind of that three
-step model, you know, which I'm assuming sounding
like your intensive kind of follows the APSATS
three phases a little bit. It does. It does a
little bit. So for those of you who do not know,
the APSATS organization stands for the Association
of partners of sex addicts trauma specialists
it's a little bit of a mouthful but I think I
said it right you did well done it's a certification
process for therapists and coaches as well in
in the betrayal trauma world and they use this
three -part model the multi -dimensional partner
model I believe is what it's called and it's
got these three phases that crisis and stabilization
I'm trying to even remember the verbiage of two
and three, but it's essentially kind of like
meaning making that trauma therapy occurs in
stage two and then growth or post -traumatic
growth is really stage three. The transformation
piece. The transformation. Yep, that's right.
So our program does integrate those ideas. Absolutely.
We do spend some work talking about crisis stabilization.
I will say by the time clients get to our intensive.
They have had some crisis intervention already,
some stabilization. Most of them are in therapy.
So there's enough of, okay, I have some tools,
or at least I know what tools could be. It's
actually doing it that's hard, right? So most
of the women who come to us have already read
all the books, listened to all the podcasts.
People who have experienced betrayal trauma are
some of the most educated women I've ever sat
with. because really absorbing all of the information
and researching their experience, which I think
is so valuable. We do hit on a little bit of
that. So we do talk about like boundaries. We
do talk about coping skills, different things
like that. But I will say that I think we probably
hover more in that stage too. Our program does.
Because we are so focused on the trauma therapy
and that's really where... trauma therapy typically
happens in in stage two once you've managed the
crisis but we also see trauma therapy as a way
to manage the crisis so we kind of we do we kind
of touch on on all three actually now that I'm
thinking about it and we're talking through it
because we definitely we weave in post -traumatic
growth and obviously resilience and Yeah. I know
they talk about grief, work, and stage two a
lot, and yeah, developing a plan to move forward,
et cetera. So I love that. Thank you for answering
that question. I think our listeners understand
a little bit better of the value of finding someone
who is certified, APSAT certified, or at least
informed in those stages, because it's so important
to do things in the right order of healing as
much as possible. What is the desired outcome
of this intensive? or the three of you or the
people that you have leading it? Yeah, I think
that everyone's individual journey is a little
bit different. As clinicians, our goal is always
going to be decreased symptoms of trauma and
increased emotional regulation and stabilization.
We want people to walk out of our program feeling
more regulated, more in control, and more confident.
in their own abilities and their abilities to
make whatever decisions are best for them and
their family. And I think that that's what people
experience when they come work with us. That's
so good. I know that for me, you know, there's
this element that we have called co -regulation.
Yes. And when you're married, that is very much
a piece of the marriage. And it is a really challenging
transition. I mean, we should all have some self
-regulation, but co -regulation is a part of
being in a relationship with anybody. I have
it with Chris, you know? So here we are in relationship
with our spouse and we are transitioning from
some amount of co -regulation to self -regulation.
So I'm really glad to hear that you guys touch
on that a little bit because I don't think that
I anticipated this concept at all. There was,
there were too many things to think about, let's
be honest. And, but it is absolutely the key
to creating safety within your body. And gosh,
I just, I'd love to hear a little bit more about
that. And, and so if you could touch on that
a little bit and also. You mentioned, you know,
like this outline of things that you have. How
in the world do you keep your participants from
reaching that saturation point by noon? Or not
reaching it. Or not reaching it. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Oversaturation. Oversaturation. Especially
if we're learning to self -regulate. That is
absolutely exhausting. It is exhausting. Yes.
Okay. So let me speak to the self -regulation
piece first. So really how we achieve that self
-regulation in our program specifically is through
the trauma therapy interventions we use. So it's
less about tool building. We do do a little bit
of tool building. But it's really the trauma
therapy that increases self -regulation. If we
can decrease your symptoms of trauma, then you're
more able to regulate yourself, right? You're
not going to be experiencing the intensity of
the emotions with triggers. You're not going
to have as many triggers. You're going to be
able to tolerate distress more effectively. And
so we don't necessarily spend a lot of time teaching
self -regulation skills. that is just a natural
product of the program based on the trauma therapy
that you participate in. We do talk about boundaries
and we do talk about safety. And so that co -regulation
piece is a part of the conversation, right? co
-regulate effectively with someone who your body
is telling you is not safe right now. And so
boundaries is about establishing safety for yourself.
Part of that is, you know, emotional safety.
Maybe we're co -regulating with other people
in our life and not our partners. Like where
else can you get some of that safety? But then
it's really developing that safety within your
sense of self. I'm going to pause us there for
just a moment because this is huge. The co -regulation
or the self -regulation is not a tool. It's a
result. Of the work you've done. And so I think
for many of us that are looking to maybe fast
forward a little bit or like if I could just
gain this concept and apply this tool, then I
can self -regulate and then I can do X, Y, and
Z. But that's not it, is it? And I have to say
that I haven't heard that a lot when it comes
to in the counseling world and the coaching world
even. A lot of times we'll... hand down these
little acronyms and these little three -point
things. Here's how you self -regulate. Yeah.
That's not what we're hearing here today. What
we're hearing is once you feel safe, then you
have access. You're within that window of tolerance
and you have access to yourself to manage your
internal world, to make decisions and to make
boundaries that continue you into this healing
process. I feel like we just got handed a new
key to a door we haven't been able to unlock
yet. Yeah. With that information. That's good.
And all trauma therapy increases that window
of tolerance. I think that's a great point to
bring in is that window of tolerance. If we can
increase your window of tolerance, you're staying
in it more and more every single day. And so
there are tools for self -regulation, right?
Therapists know them. Coaches know them. We teach
them to our clients. And they are hard to implement.
We work really, really hard and sometimes they
work and sometimes they don't. And it's not that
they're not helpful. I think from my clinical
perspective, it's just incomplete. And if we
have an intervention that can get you there faster,
why are we not using it? Yeah. And you said earlier,
Elizabeth, that this intensive is expensive.
And I don't know what the amount is. And I'm
hoping that you'll share it at the end of our
talk. But what better way to use your money?
I love Dave Ramsey says, don't let your money
tell you where to go. You tell your money where
to go. And what a great investment in your future,
in your present, in your joy, in your ability.
to live a great life. So it's, you know, expensive,
I think is relative. I think it costs more to
not. What's more, what's also as expensive as
going to the doctor and having high blood pressure
medication. And for those that do massage therapy,
massage therapists are expensive. You know, and
there's a lot, a lot of costs that go into healing.
Why not apply it in the most effective place?
There are a lot of costs. And this is the exact
conversation that I have with clients or individuals
who are interested in coming to participate in
our intensive. We almost ruin it. Can you afford
not to do it? If your body is shutting down and
you're not functional, if you can't go to work,
you're not sleeping, you're not eating. Yeah,
absolutely. And because it really jumpstarts
the healing, because it speeds along that integration,
because it works to transform the neurobiology
in your brain. It's going to get you faster,
get you there faster. And so, you know, I have
clients who say, oh, you know, I can only afford
therapy once every week. I get it. I hear you.
I understand. And what if this intensive could
make it so that then you only have to go to therapy
once a month? And then you actually stop therapy
two years before you would if you were just going
once a week. So it really is just about where
you want to allocate your resources and doing
it wisely. Yeah. Okay. So what about that saturation
point before noon? That's right. So I think one
of the things that we do, and this is, again,
part of what differentiates us from some other
programs out there, is we don't do a lot of education.
We're not pumping out a ton of new information.
Like I said, most of the clients who come to
us are very well -educated. have read the books.
In our first group of the program, we talk about
attachment ambivalence and Michelle Mays. I'm
sure you all are familiar with her work and The
Betrayal Bind. It's such a fantastic resource.
And everyone is like, yeah, yeah, I've read that
book. I'm like, perfect, because now this is
your second exposure to it and you can intake
it a little bit better, right? So we're not giving
a lot of new information. We do have one psychoeducation
group a day with very specific topics. But it's
not a lot of new information. It's much more
experiential. And the information that we do
provide, we also give you like a book to take
home with you, right? So we have a workbook that
myself and the other founders of the program
have created. And it is not meant for homework.
We are very clear, like do not even open this
book until you get home, like home from the program.
You don't need it right now, but know that everything
that we are talking about today and right now
is... is something that you can take home with
you and reference later. So we really try to
make sure that we give those resources so that
they can revisit them, but we're not pumping
out a bunch of new information. Our program is
much more experiential. So our morning groups
are what are called process groups. So again,
it's a lot about shared experiences, connections,
expression of emotional experiences. For example,
one of our groups is an anger and grief group.
So we talk about What is anger? How do we feel
anger? What are the different types of anger?
How can you own your anger? You know, as women,
we're often told you can't be angry or if you're
angry, you're aggressive or, you know, all of
these messages that just are a part of our society.
And so just providing our clients with an opportunity
to like claim their anger because they have a
right to be angry about what has happened is
really powerful. So so that's what that's what
the morning looks like is that process group.
We take breaks. Hour -long lunch break. Like
I said, we're across the street from the park.
Go take a walk. Please leave the office. Go walk
down to Starbucks. Do whatever you need to do.
Just take a little reprieve. And then, you know,
we have the afternoon trauma therapy sessions
and those psycho ed groups. But really, so information
overload is not an issue. It's not as much an
information overload. Do people get fatigued?
Yes. However. That's what we want. It is okay
if you are fatigued and tired or emotionally
drained because that is a really, really good
spot to be in to do the trauma therapy work.
The more in touch one is with their emotional
experience, which we tend to be more in touch
with them when we're a little bit fatigued, right?
The more effective the trauma therapy is. So
we don't actually mind that. If you're feeling
a little raw, a little vulnerable, amazing. Let's
dig in. Wow. I did not know that. That is so
cool. All right. Good to know. So Elizabeth,
what difference do you see with your clients
who don't go through this intensive versus the
clients who do go through it? What are the outcomes
that you see as a therapist? Generally. What
I see is that increased emotional regulation
and that increased sense of safety with self.
You know, we talk a lot about attachment and
finding secure attachment, not necessarily in
our relationships, but within ourself. And I
think the clients who participate in our intensives
are able to do that much quicker. They have decreased
symptoms of PTSD much quicker. They feel physically
better. They're sleeping, you know. Headaches
have decreased. Chronic pain or fatigue has decreased.
They're able to get back to living their lives,
I think, just more quickly, really. One of the
things that I see as a coach or that I've even
experienced personally is the overthinking, too,
which is exhausting. And the safety -seeking
habits, which are good, but can be exhausting
and sometimes can turn on us, too, and become
unhealthy. Yeah. So do you see that as well?
I'm sure you do. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely do.
And actually, this brings up another interesting
point, I think, a benefit of really any therapeutic
intensive program, as long as it really is that
therapy and not as much of a retreat style. We
see a lot of other co -occurring mental health
issues and betrayal trauma, and sometimes it
takes clinicians and providers a long time to
tease it out. Because some of the symptoms overlap
so significantly, right? Betrayal trauma and
ADHD, betrayal trauma and OCD. We see, I mean,
the symptoms can be the same. And so sometimes
there's actually something more going on than
the betrayal trauma itself. Sometimes there is
an undiagnosed ADHD. Sometimes there's undiagnosed
OCD. And so when we get clients in our program,
when we get them multiple days in a row, when
we see how their brain responds to the trauma
therapy, when we see how they show up in a group
setting, when other clinicians in our clinic
also get to collaborate on their care, we're
typically able to come up with a more accurate
diagnosis, which then can actually change the
course of their treatment. So we've had clients
who have come in where at day two, I'm like,
wow, I just really think there's something else
going on. And so we're able to do a little bit
more assessment. And it turns out they probably
have undiagnosed OCD, which is a whole different
treatment plan, right? It's a whole different
medication regimen if they're working with a
psychiatrist. And so that is another thing that
I think is really important about, or just like
an extra benefit of being able to be seen by
multiple providers and seen over, you know, long
days over a short period of time is we just get
so much more information as clinicians so that
we can provide the best and most accurate treatment
plan for our clients. And I love that idea of
groupthink. You know, you've got a team of people
with eyes on you, finding those comorbidities
and other issues and being able to untangle all
those wires. That's so powerful. Yeah. Yeah.
Having a diagnosis changes everything. It really,
really can. And when you're doing this treatment
therapy, whether it be in the intensive or outside
of the intensive, I'm assuming you see people.
outside of the intensives. You know, many of
us are familiar with things like EMDR or brain
spotting. I have a client who, you know, well,
let's just say that some people respond really
well to those things. Other people don't necessarily.
So what kind of trauma therapies do you use that
you guys find effective? Yeah, we use a trauma
therapy that's not as common. It's called emotional
transformation therapy or ETT. It's based out
of Austin, Texas. The founder's name is Dr. Vasquez.
He is one of the most intelligent people I've
ever met in my entire life. He's fantastic. And
he developed this trauma treatment modality and
it just really kind of stayed in Texas. You know,
he trained all of his own clinicians. He would
bring in students and train them. So you go down
to the South and most people know, most clinicians
know what ETT is. A lot of clinicians are certified.
um in that treatment modality and up here it's
just not as common and so we are i believe our
clinic has the only certified ett providers in
the state of washington and actually that could
be true even in the entirety of the pacific northwest
and so it's it's unique it's a little bit different
it has not yet been empirically validated so
similar to brain spotting has not been empirically
validated yet it's kind of we're coming on the
heels of emdr right so everyone knows what emdr
is and the These other trauma treatment modalities
where there's a lot of research, but we're still
doing more research, are kind of coming on the
heels of it, and ETT is one of those. And clinicians
in our clinic are trained in other modalities.
We have clinicians who are trained in EMDR as
well, and they just don't use it anymore because
what we have found is that ECT is the most effective
for our clients. Are they similar in how they're
used, like with the eyes and all of that? There
are some similarities. There are also some differences.
So with ETT, we do do different eye movements
and we also use light and color. EMDR uses a
light bar. ETT uses some light as well, but we
integrate different color wavelengths in addition
to the light. What the research, well, the research
that was pulled from in order to kind of find
or found this treatment modality is originally
from like marketing and interior design teams
do research on the psychology of color. And that
wasn't something that. therapeutically was studied
often, but Dr. Vasquez was able to dig into that
research with a theory that he had to create
this modality. And what that research shows is
that colors are associated with emotion. And
so there's endless research out there about it,
right? Because interior designers want to decorate
spaces that are desirable to our brains. Same
with marketing teams. They want to market products
that are desirable to people's brains. And so
he was able to use that research and then integrate
it into this therapeutic modality. And so we
use color to get people in touch with the intensity
of that emotion. or kind of, you know, prompt
different experiences that maybe are not like
right on the surface. If someone needs to do
a little bit of grief processing and cognitively
they know that, but they're having a hard time
getting in touch with the emotions of it, we
can expose their eyes to a color that's associated
with sadness and grief and it helps them get
in touch with that emotional experience. Ooh,
that's fascinating. It is absolutely. I love
green. And anyone that knows me loves, knows
that I love nature, pine trees specifically.
Right. So, and, and so that is just being my
house, the outside of my house is green. I can't
keep plants alive like Chris. So unfortunately
there's probably some work to do there, but,
but yeah, that's amazing. I, when I see that
dark color green, my shoulders drop. Yeah. And
it probably has a lot to do with those experiences
of where I feel safe. Yeah. Color, do you associate
with sadness? Because as Elizabeth was talking,
I was trying to think, what color is sad to me?
Well, I don't know what color is sad to me. But
I will say what's coming to mind right now as
we're talking about it is I really struggle with
the color pink. I don't like the color pink.
And I have a mother wound. And my mom's favorite
color was pink. So Elizabeth, yes. There is something
there. That's amazing. Yeah. And it's a good
question. And it is interesting that the colors
are not, it's not necessarily intuitive. Like
what we would, would think green is actually,
and everything is a spectrum, right? So although,
you know, this color is associated with grief
and sadness on the other spectrum, it's, it's
joy and happiness and empathy. And so it depends
on really the state of mind you're in, what you're
thinking about. which emotion is going to come
out. So, so green is actually the color associated
with sadness. However, on the other end of that
spectrum, happiness, peace, empathy, love. And
so it really depends. It depends on the day.
It depends on your experience. It depends on
the moment. And so sometimes we have. We have,
we call them resource colors. So if you have
a color that you're really drawn to, we call
that a resource color. It's a color that your
brain really loves. And maybe your resource color
right now is green and that's what soothes you,
but it can change over time depending on your
life experiences. So although it might be green
right now, if you have. an experience that is
really significant with grief or sadness upcoming
you might struggle with green for a little bit
but when you move through those emotional experiences
it can become a resource color again so there
is like you're saying there's a reason why people
like to go walk in the forest and we like to
be outside and look at the green grass and the
trees um there's a reason that people love the
ocean and blues and want to just stare at the
water right we can almost like We use those colors
to help support our own emotional experience.
So what you're saying is this isn't black and
white. Come on. Come on. The other thing that
sets ETT apart from EMDR, which I just want to
mention, and I actually think that this is what
makes. the the treatment modality of ect stand
out the most and why we use it why it is so effective
and why it just speeds the process along all
trauma therapy is amazing i will say that too
emdr brain spotting prolonged exposure therapy
every single trauma therapy at the end of the
day will get you the same results that's what
the research says however they will get you there
at different speeds and so that's that's maybe
the thing to consider. And ETT in our experience
and what the research is saying is it just gets
you there faster. And it's because of this. There's
an element of biofeedback to ETT. So if you all
are familiar with biofeedback, that means we
get real -time information from someone's brain
while we are doing the therapy. Now, when we
are dissociating or in fight or flight, we cannot
do any trauma processing. Like our brain is in
a state of trauma and it is not going to happen.
And so your brain has to be integrated in order
to really move through the traumatic experiences
in a way that decreases your symptoms. I'll just
give you my little short neurobiology lesson
here. If either of you are familiar with - Well,
Jen's going to hate this because, I'm kidding,
Jen loves brain science. It's your pen. Oh, yeah.
Jen's got, listeners, Jen's got her notebook
out. She's got a pen. Where's your highlighter,
girl? Okay. Take it away, Elizabeth, please.
Some of you might be familiar with Dan Siegel.
He's a pediatric psychiatrist. Fantastic. He
wrote the book Mindsight. He's done a lot of
research. And he developed this model. Because
he's a pediatric psychiatrist, all of his stuff
is very approachable, which is why I like it.
But I use it with adults, too, because it's just
so easy to talk about. It just makes so much
sense. So he talks about the hand model of the
brain. And his hand model of the brain is if
you make a fist with your hand, your thumb is,
yep, four fingers wrap around your thumb. And
so we pretend that this is your brain. Your thumb
is your amygdala, which is your emotional regulation
center, right? That's where fight or flight lives.
Your forefingers are your prefrontal cortex that
wrap around that amygdala. Your prefrontal cortex
lives behind your forehead. That is critical
thinking, logic, decision making. Up there is
also the hippocampus. That's where our memories
are stored. And so this is a little bit of a
metaphor, but it also is biologically what happens
in your brain. When we experience that fight
or flight response or have a big emotional reaction
to something because of trauma, our amygdala
gets activated. And it metaphorically pushes
against your prefrontal cortex until you do what
Dan Siegel calls flip your lid. And now when
your lid is flipped, your amygdala, that emotional
regulation center in your prefrontal cortex,
logic, critical thinking, decision making, memory
storage. There is a biological block between
those two parts of your brain. They are no longer
communicating with each other. This is why we
experience and we hear people say, I know this
to be true, but I feel something different. I
know it, but I don't know it. Yes. Those parts
of your brain are not communicating. We cannot
do trauma therapy when your brain is in fight
or flight. It is not effective. So this is also
when you hear people say, but I've talked about
this a hundred times and I don't feel better.
Right. It's because you're checked out. Your
brain is dissociating the whole time you're talking
about it. So, of course, you don't feel better.
And so what we have to do is we have to ground.
You use a grounding skill, right? Deep breath,
muscle movement, wiggle your toes and fingers.
This is where some self -regulation tangible
skills come in. Temperature changes, scent changes,
things like that. That reintegrates your brain.
Now everything is communicating appropriately.
When all the parts of your brain are communicating,
then we can move you through the traumatic experience.
That experience moves from your emotional regulation
center to your hippocampus and is actually stored
in your long -term memory where your critical
thinking and logic can access it, right? So that's
what it is. We're just integrating all of those
things. So ETT has that biofeedback element,
which means we know when you are in fight or
flight, when you are in your trauma therapy session.
So we can pause, we can ground, we can reintegrate
the brain. And then we just jump back in and
keep going. With other trauma therapies, your
provider is guessing. And we are very good at
our jobs, but we cannot read your mind. It's
just not possible. Everyone dissociates. And
people are really good at hiding it, not intentionally,
but it's a skill that you've developed over time.
And so although you might appear to be calm and
regulated, your brain is really checked out.
And so we need that information or as much of
it as we can get. because that's going to speed
along your healing if we can ground you, integrate
you, and then continue to process them. What
are your thoughts on biofeedback where they do
the little things up on the brain? Yeah, biofeedback
is great. Yeah, very cool. Every therapy, like
I said, every trauma therapy is going to be effective.
It's just a matter of how quickly you want to
get there. And so biofeedback is... fantastic
and can be very, very helpful. I think ETT really
just takes a lot of these trauma therapies, combines
the best parts of all of them into one. Would
you say that this is good both for the betrayal
person as well as the addict or anyone who's
gone through any type of adverse childhood experience?
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And we don't just
do ETT in these intensive programs. We use it
just on an outpatient therapy basis as well.
So with our sex addiction clients, with any kind
of trauma client, it can be really used for most
mental health concerns. There is actually a specific
addictions protocol with ETT. I believe it was
just last year they did the first case study
on sex addiction and it was incredibly effective.
Wow. Very, very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Tell
us, give us the nuts and bolts, if you would,
about this intensive, but I'm also curious, do
you treat men? Do you have an intensive for men
as well as for women? And also you're in the
state of Washington. Are you able to see people
outside of the state in some capacity? Yeah.
So we are in the state of Washington. All of
our providers are licensed in Washington. We
also have providers licensed in Colorado and
Texas. So we can serve any clients in those three
states. And if you want to participate in our
intensive program, you can fly here from any
state to participate in that program. So the
way that the licensing laws work is as long as
you're physically in our state, we can provide
you services. And so although we are only licensed
to practice in three states, we do have clients
who fly in from other states that we are not
licensed in to get our services. Um, we are really,
really trying to get a men's betrayal intensive
off the ground. There are not a lot of resources
for betrayed men. I'm sure you all know that.
There are not. Cricket noises out there for the
guys. Crickets. But I will tell you, we have
been trying to get this program off the ground
for a year and we cannot get enough interest
in it. They're brave enough to talk about that
yet. Just like we don't talk about sex addiction
for the women as much, and that's starting to
come along, right? Yeah, the betrayal piece for
the men. Yeah, so we've been trying. We have
a wait list on our website that men can sign
up for. They sign up, we call them immediately,
and they don't answer. We give them a few months,
and we send an email, you know, just checking
in, we're still here. So we are working on trying
to... get a men's betrayal program off the ground.
We do treat sex addiction. We do not currently
have a sex addiction intensive, but it is something
that we've been thinking about a lot and actually
thinking about integrating the ETT addictions
protocol to do an intensive program for sex addiction.
It is not something that is happening right now,
but we really hope in the next year or so we
will have a men's program as well. Sounds like
a great growth goal. Okay, so if our listeners
wanted to participate in your intensive, how
would they get a hold of you? How would they
sign up for this? What's the cost involved and
the time involved? So probably best way to sign
up is to go to our website. It's www .thebtrc
.com. We have all of the intensive information
on the website and you just fill out our contact
form saying that you're interested in participating.
And then next steps are to set up a consultation
to make sure that you're a good fit for the program
and to make sure that we can collaborate. on
your care and, and get you all taken care of.
The program cost is $3 ,500 for three and a half
days. It's actually less than I thought you were
going to say. Yeah. And it is like, it's an investment
and we really, really try to make these programs
approachable because they are so important. So
I just did the math. That's about, that's almost
18 visits with a therapist. Knock that out in
three days. All handled in three and a half days.
Plus you get to stay in a hotel and there's Starbucks
and croissants and you're going to, you're going
to make some new girlfriends. Jen, I think I
want to go. Go. Let's go. We could, we could,
oh, we might be trouble though. Yeah, we are
trouble. Let's go. Okay. We welcome it. Okay.
Elizabeth, I'm excited and I'm encouraged that
that was not, I thought you were going to say
like $9 ,000 or something. Plus you're in beautiful
Seattle and you can go see Pike's Place Market
and visit the ocean and do all that. We encourage
people to stay extra. Stay a couple extra days.
Spend the weekend in the hotel. We have fabulous
hotels over here with wonderful spas. That's
where you can get your retreat. your retreat
-like experience, right? Come to your therapy
intensive and then take a couple days, go to
the beach, go to the ocean, get a massage. Do
some self -care. Or you head home. Yep, exactly.
Yeah. I've been so curious about intensives and
it's just been a pleasure to have you on educating
all of us about what this entails. In closing,
do you have a word of encouragement you'd like
to share with our listeners to kind of wrap things
up? Oh, absolutely. I mean, just that the way
you feel now is not how you will feel forever,
really. I mean... People are resilient. Your
brain is resilient. Human brain is really amazing.
It truly, truly is. And I would really highly
encourage anyone who is feeling that stuckness,
feeling that, you know, my brain is telling me
one thing, but my emotions are telling me something
different. Seek out someone, a clinician who
is certified in some sort of trauma therapy modality.
It will make all of the difference. Thank you
for that. Thank you so much. It's been such a
joy to meet you and to hear about this. I wish
I had heard about this a long, long time ago.
And for those of you that are contemplating,
let this be your sign if you're into signs. Let
this be. Here's your sign, yeah. At least check
it out. Check it out. See if this is a good direction
for you to go because as someone who's been in
this healing process, honestly, really for over
18 years now, I can testify that you will come
to these points where the brain doesn't match
up or where the emotions don't match up with
the thought process. And the sooner you can work
towards connecting those two, the faster you
all, you ask me all the time, folks, you ask
me, how can I fast forward? This is the way.
This is the way to do it. Yes. Good point. So
as someone who's been doing this a long time,
please hear my heart. Do yourself a favor. Consider
the impact of what $3 ,500 could do in the long
term. It is a short -term financial investment
for a long -term gain for your emotions, for
your body. And let's be honest, for those of
us that... are raising children or have raised
children, what you have to give to your children
after you've worked through some of the betrayal
processing. And when you come on the other side
to, you know, the folks help me out here. What's
the word? Post -betrayal. Thank you. That's the
word. Once you get there, the gift that you have
to offer your children, nobody can put a price
on that. The impact you're having on what is
epigenetics? It takes one person to stand up
and change the narrative and let the health flow
downward to our descendants, right? Yeah. You
know, we're constantly talking to our clients
about how this is not a life sentence. This is
a chapter. And what I'm loving about this whole
conversation is that an intensive like this can
turn it into, instead of a chapter, can turn
it into a pamphlet. It can. And let's be honest,
some of us feel like we're reading the same chapter
over and over and over again. Let's move on to
the next one. Elizabeth, thank you. That was
great encouragement, too. So excited to meet
you and have you in our wheelhouse. And we look
forward to getting to know you better. And maybe
we'll just have to have a trip up to Bellingham
or not Bellingham, Bellevue. And come check out
your clinic and see the good work that you and
your partners are doing. So thank you. Yeah,
thank you. Absolutely. All right, listeners,
on that note, thank you for joining us on this
episode of the Betrayal Recovery Transformation
Podcast. We really hope you found today's discussion
insightful and empowering. Boy, I sure did. If
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