WEBVTT

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We see a lot of other co -occurring mental health

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issues in betrayal trauma, and sometimes it takes

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clinicians and providers a long time to tease

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it out. Some of the symptoms overlap so significantly,

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right? Betrayal trauma and ADHD, betrayal trauma

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and OCD. I mean, the symptoms can be the same.

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Sometimes there's actually something more going

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on than the betrayal trauma itself. On today's

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podcast, we had a therapist named Elizabeth Abruzzay,

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and I'm just really in love with her name. You

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remembered how to say it. I took notes. I made

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little, you know, little lines, the little squiggle,

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you know, whatever. So yeah, Elizabeth Abruzzay,

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she is a co -owner of a clinic up in Bellevue,

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Washington. that I met or we've connected with

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her through the APSATS organization. And we had

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a fascinating talk about an intensive that she

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and her partners created for betrayed women.

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And it was an amazing conversation and it just

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kind of built, it grew, it got better. The more

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questions we asked, wouldn't you say? I would

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say, yeah, I would say for anyone who's looking

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for that fast forward button. This is your podcast

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to listen to. Oh, I love that you said that because

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I remember right after D -Day going, I just want

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to be, I want to be a month from now. I want

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time to move quickly. I think I make reference

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to it in the podcast. I don't know. We had a

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lot of pre and post recording conversations,

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but I think I made reference to the fact that

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I wish I had had this so long ago. If I had had

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this type of resource, the things that she introduces

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into this podcast. I would have definitely have

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pursued my healing a little differently. And

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I just wish I would have had these intensives

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that she offers. For those of you that are even

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in the beginning, we talked about this too, whether

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you're in the beginning or even several years

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into the process, if you're in the beginning

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or if you feel stuck in your healing journey,

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yes, yes, this is your podcast. You did make

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that comment, something about, oh, I wish I would

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have known about this. I would have done it so

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long ago. And here's the good news. As we practice

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gratitude, which in our brain science, and she

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does go into some amazing brain science, but

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anxiety and gratitude cannot coexist because

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they come from the same place in the brain. So

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ladies, as we practice gratitude. Remember Dr.

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Laura's episode 15, she talks about this if you

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want to refresh her on it, but that the antidote

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to depression and anxiety is gratitude. One of

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the things I'm grateful for is the resources

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and opportunities we have available to us now,

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right now today, that weren't even in existence

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a year ago, because ladies, this intensive just

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started a year ago. So we are getting more and

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more, I have full body chills right now, we are

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getting more and more resources, opportunities,

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intensives, trained coaches, trained therapists

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that are experts in this field, whereas this

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was an unknown territory just even 10 years ago.

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What's great about this also is for anybody that's

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in the Pacific Northwest, there isn't anything

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like this available until now. So if you are

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listening from the Pacific Northwest, know that

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these in -person intensives are available. But

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not only do they offer that, but they've got

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some other things that they can offer as well

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if you're not in this area. And she talks a little

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bit about that. Yeah. And a new therapy called

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ETT, emotional... Transformation Therapy. And

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it's groundbreaking and apparently comes at trauma

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from a whole different direction. We had a long

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conversation with Elizabeth post -roll and we're

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super excited about this. I kind of want to go

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road trip up to Bellevue and tour their clinic

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and meet her partners because they're onto something

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here. So enjoy this podcast, friends. Be encouraged

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that there's so much out there that's available

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to help us heal. Hello, everyone. Welcome to

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the Betrayal Recovery Transformation Podcast,

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where we talk about all things betrayal, all

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things recovery, and all things transformation.

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I'm your host, Kris Rocha, and I'm here with

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my spiritual bestie, Jen Howey. Hey, Jen. That's

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funny. You said spiritual bestie, and the very

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first thing that popped into my head was trusty

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steed. But I think that's because I've been watching

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too many episodes of Toy Story 2 with my grandson.

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And Bullseye is his trusty steed. But Gertrude

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Busty is much better. I'll take that. I stole

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that from you, but I just wrote down trusty steed

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for future use. Because, you know, fun fact,

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listeners, if you haven't picked it up yet, I'm

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trying to introduce Jen in a new creative way

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every time. It's kind of the amusement, the novelty

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I'm adding to the beginning of the podcast. Yes.

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Hi, Jen. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. What

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was it? Uh, spiritual bestie. Yes, absolutely.

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And you are my spiritual best friend. You are

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the woman who sharpens me. And, um, speaking

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of women that sharpen women are today's guests.

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Um, I mean, we haven't even recorded this podcast

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yet, but just from, from the pre -recording that

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we did already, um, this is, this is going to

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be a fun one. We are pre -roll besties with our

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guests today already. I feel it. I feel the connection.

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Yes. Yeah. It's beautiful. Okay. Take it away,

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Jen. Who are we talking to today? We're talking

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to Elizabeth. Elizabeth, how do you say your

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last name? Great question. No one knows how to

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pronounce it. So no problem. It's Abruze. Abruze.

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That sounds very fancy. Italian. Italian. I would

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not. Okay. Yes. I love it. All right. Here we

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go with Elizabeth Abruze. You got it. She's the

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co -founder and clinical director of the Bellevue

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Trauma Recovery Center. She holds an MA in clinical

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mental health counseling from Gonzaga University.

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I don't know why I said it like that. And she's

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honed her clinical focus on addressing relational

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trauma, notably betrayal trauma. She's acquired

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significant expertise in the treatment of problematic

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sexual behaviors and sex addiction, recognizing

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the profound impact of these patterns on relationships.

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Elizabeth is one of the primary therapists for

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the Resilience Through Betrayal intensive programs

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in Bellevue, Washington, which is what she's

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here to talk with us about today. Welcome to

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the podcast, Elizabeth. We're so happy to have

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you. Thank you so much. I'm honored to be here.

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Your podcast is such a great resource for so

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many of our clients. This is very exciting. What

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do you do in Bellevue when you're not helping

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women be resilient? Oh, that is a good question.

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I actually don't live in Bellevue. Our office

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is just here. So to be honest, I don't spend

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that much time in Bellevue. However, right across

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the street from our office is a beautiful park,

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Crossroads Park, and it has an amazing walking

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trail. playground and splash pads for kids. And

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so it's a fun spot over here. Nice. Yeah. And

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you're not too far away from one of my favorite

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places on the planet. And that is Bellingham,

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Washington. Yeah, not too far. Yeah. Beautiful,

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beautiful country up there. Elizabeth, would

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you tell us a little bit about yourself just

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personally? How did you get into this line of

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work and, and what's your passion? And yeah.

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That's a good question. I actually kind of fell

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into this work, to be honest. I know a lot of

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people get into working with betrayal trauma.

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for personal reasons, or it's part of their story.

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That is not the case with me. After graduate

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school, I was working in some community -based

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mental health programs. I worked in a residential

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adolescent program, was working in the hospital

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systems. And one of my best friends from college,

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who's actually my roommate, called me and was

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like, hey, you know, the practice I'm working

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for is hiring, and I really think that you should

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come work for us. She was in her PsyD program

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at the time, working towards becoming a psychologist.

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And I was like, okay, you know, I'm not necessarily

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looking for a new job, but also where I was working

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had really high burnout. And so I was looking

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for something a little bit different. And this

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happened to be a clinic that specialized in sex

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addiction, betrayal, trauma recovery. And I just

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got connected to them through this. She was actually

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my college roommate. And so that's how I kind

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of fell into this therapeutic setting. And I

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started out really working primarily with men

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with problematic sexual behaviors and teens.

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So I still do a lot of teen and family work where

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there's betrayal in the family system. But over

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the years, I just kind of slowly started shifting

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my niche more towards betrayal trauma because

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that was the group that I was most drawn to and

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most enjoyed. working with, particularly, I think,

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because of the complex trauma. You know, my training

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is in trauma therapy. That's how I view things

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therapeutically through a trauma lens. And so

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that was just kind of how I fell into it. Nice.

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That's beautiful. So tell us a little bit about

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how the Resilience Through Betrayal Intensive

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came to be. You and I just met, I'd mentioned

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earlier, it sounds intensive. And do you remember,

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and what was your response to that? It's intensive

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healing. Just reframe it a little bit. It is

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intensive therapy, but it's intensive healing.

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And there's so much relief, I think, on the other

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side of it. So I tried to reframe it. So it feels

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maybe a little less intimidating to people who

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are interested in participating. It actually

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started just as an idea. My two business partners

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and colleagues and now two of my best friends

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who I own this practice with now, the Bellevue

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Trauma Recovery Center, the BTRC, is what we

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typically refer to the practice as. And we were

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just noticing. like a missing part in the treatment

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that was really accessible to our clients um

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all three of us worked with betrayal trauma and

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sex addiction and so many days after um work

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we would just be sitting there at the end of

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the day like how do we how do we help these women

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like how do we give them more support? How do

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we create a structure where they can heal faster?

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And intensive programs have existed for a long

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time, and there are some really fantastic programs

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generally across the country, but there really

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aren't any intensive therapy programs for betrayal

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trauma in the Pacific Northwest. And so we had

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so many clients who we wanted to send to intensive

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programs, but they were really far away. Maybe

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they were too long. You know, these women didn't

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need 45 -day residential programs. They just

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needed like, you know, a few days or a week of

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something to jumpstart the recovery or something

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to get them unstuck from those stuck points of

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the trauma. And we didn't have anywhere to send

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our clients. And so that's really when we started

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thinking about just developing the program ourselves.

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You know, if it doesn't exist somewhere else

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and our clients need it, other people need it

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as well. So that's kind of how it all started.

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So this isn't just a recovery program for those

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who are in the very beginning. You had mentioned

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if someone's stuck, that this might be a good

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resource as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think

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that it's really appropriate. Honestly, no matter

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where someone is at in their recovery process,

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it's going to be helpful. Depending on what stage

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you're in, you're just going to take away different

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messages. It can be very helpful early in recovery

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just because the trauma symptoms are so severe.

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And so a program like this really helps with

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some rapid trauma integration. It's going to

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decrease those symptoms. But it's also really,

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really helpful for clients who are feeling stuck

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in the trauma therapy world. And I'm sure you

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all hear this with some of your coaching clients

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as well. You'll hear people say, I know this

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thing to be true, but I feel this thing to be

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true. And they contradict each other, right?

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It's when the brain and the body are not matching.

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Our mind and emotions are not aligned. And that's

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what trauma therapy does, is it integrates those

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two things. It gets you unstuck so that you can

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move forward where your emotions start to match

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the thoughts that you know to be true. And so

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it's very helpful for people who are post -disclosure

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or who are... maybe in a place where their husband

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has done some really great recovery work and

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they're wanting to rebuild trust, but the trauma

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symptoms are preventing them from being able

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to rebuild that connection in a way that feels

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good. It's helpful for women who have chosen

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to separate and are going through the divorce

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process. And, you know, they have this whole

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new world and whole new life ahead of them that

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is very, very different than what they have experienced.

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And, you know. integrating into a world post

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-separation or post -divorce is really challenging

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in and of itself and so you know working through

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the different traumas from the relationship that

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you are leaving so that you know then you can

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can show up in your life in a way that feels

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really um really consistent with your value system

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and who you want to be and and connect with other

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people in a way that you're not still holding

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such significant trauma with you. I'm 12 years

00:13:35.820 --> 00:13:41.899
in. Can I come? Of course. We have clients who

00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:47.879
have been, you know, in therapy and in this recovery

00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:51.340
process for 15 to 20 years. You know, some clients

00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:53.159
that we've had, we've had multiple clients in

00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:56.139
their 70s participate in this program. Yeah,

00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:58.860
some are still married. Some have chosen to leave

00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:02.940
their relationships. It just it's it's a program

00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:04.820
for everyone. It really is. And I think, you

00:14:04.820 --> 00:14:08.919
know, having a mix of of clients in these programs

00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:10.879
where people are at different stages is also

00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:12.740
very helpful because someone new in recovery

00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:14.779
gets to see someone who has been in it for a

00:14:14.779 --> 00:14:17.440
while. So they can they can see like, OK, it

00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:20.600
does get better. OK, there is hope here. Or,

00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:23.419
you know, there are also clients who are new

00:14:23.419 --> 00:14:26.419
in recovery who see someone else in our program

00:14:26.419 --> 00:14:29.669
who is maybe 10 years into it. and still really

00:14:29.669 --> 00:14:34.509
struggling. And it helps them discern what they

00:14:34.509 --> 00:14:36.690
want their treatment to look like, how much time

00:14:36.690 --> 00:14:39.009
and energy and honestly finances too, because

00:14:39.009 --> 00:14:42.129
it is expensive. They want to invest early on

00:14:42.129 --> 00:14:46.590
in recovery up front. It just helps people figure

00:14:46.590 --> 00:14:48.590
out, you know, how best to take care of themselves.

00:14:48.649 --> 00:14:53.019
I love it. I remember when you and I were talking

00:14:53.019 --> 00:14:57.080
several weeks back, Elizabeth, and about what

00:14:57.080 --> 00:15:00.299
do these intensives look like? And I said, are

00:15:00.299 --> 00:15:03.220
there croissants? You know, because I've heard

00:15:03.220 --> 00:15:05.440
about these intensives where they're super bougie

00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:08.639
and there's like gift packages that you take

00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:12.039
home. And, you know, we don't care about that.

00:15:12.100 --> 00:15:15.360
We just want to be able to breathe again. when

00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.840
D -Day happens or whatever stage we're in. Could

00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:19.820
you tell us, share with our listeners, what does

00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:23.100
a typical agenda look like with this intensive?

00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:26.419
Yeah, so although we are not very bougie, we

00:15:26.419 --> 00:15:28.360
are a very clinical program. There are croissants.

00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:32.720
We do cater breakfast and lunch for everyone.

00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.519
That includes croissants from a French bakery

00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.399
we have down the street, which are very lovely.

00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.600
But we are a therapy program. We are a trauma

00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:42.120
therapy program. So this is not... You see a

00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.259
lot of betrayal trauma retreats, a lot of programs

00:15:45.259 --> 00:15:47.960
where all the women stay in a house together,

00:15:48.139 --> 00:15:54.779
and maybe there's a lot of different yoga options

00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:58.580
or group activities or things like that, which

00:15:58.580 --> 00:16:01.059
are wonderful programs. Our program is just not

00:16:01.059 --> 00:16:03.860
that. It's very different. So it is really, really

00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:07.309
a therapy -based program. Not a retreat. I like

00:16:07.309 --> 00:16:09.070
that. Not a retreat. Yes. That's kind of how

00:16:09.070 --> 00:16:10.750
I distinguish it. It is an intensive therapy

00:16:10.750 --> 00:16:12.629
program. It is not a retreat. And so for the

00:16:12.629 --> 00:16:14.110
first three, it's a three and a half day program.

00:16:14.210 --> 00:16:16.110
The first three days, it's about eight hours

00:16:16.110 --> 00:16:20.009
of therapy each day. So it is intense. We start

00:16:20.009 --> 00:16:23.149
out with a group in the morning. That group is

00:16:23.149 --> 00:16:28.169
more of a process group. So it's a lot of story

00:16:28.169 --> 00:16:31.950
sharing and connecting and drawing common experiences

00:16:31.950 --> 00:16:35.350
that's facilitated by our therapists here. And

00:16:35.350 --> 00:16:37.750
then each client will have a two hour trauma

00:16:37.750 --> 00:16:41.169
therapy block. So that's an individual session.

00:16:41.850 --> 00:16:44.649
It's an individual two hour session. And then

00:16:44.649 --> 00:16:47.230
another group, which is more of a psychoeducation

00:16:47.230 --> 00:16:50.470
group. So we have specific topics that we discuss.

00:16:51.169 --> 00:16:54.250
And then we end each day with what we call an

00:16:54.250 --> 00:16:56.870
alternative healing activity. So that's different

00:16:56.870 --> 00:16:59.840
depending on. the time of year, depending on

00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:02.679
what clinicians are available in our area. This

00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:04.720
is a part of the program that we actually contract

00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:07.180
outside of our practice to do because we want

00:17:07.180 --> 00:17:09.140
to bring in other providers and get some diversity

00:17:09.140 --> 00:17:12.240
and variety. So sometimes that's a trauma -informed

00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:15.279
yoga class. Sometimes that's a sound bath. Sometimes

00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.599
that's a mindfulness activity or meditation.

00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:22.039
We have one clinician that we contract with who

00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:26.200
does Gosh, I don't even necessarily know if I

00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:27.880
have the right terminology for it, but it's almost

00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:30.579
like a horticulture exercise where, you know,

00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:33.960
you're planting things and digging in the dirt.

00:17:34.220 --> 00:17:38.700
And it's cool. It ends up being kind of like

00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:42.039
a metaphor for the grief process is that specific

00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:45.019
activity. But we end the day with something very

00:17:45.019 --> 00:17:49.259
down -regulating, calming, relaxing to help that

00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:51.779
really good trauma integration and send everyone

00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:54.109
off on their way. get a good night's sleep and

00:17:54.109 --> 00:17:58.849
come back refreshed. So there's no homework that

00:17:58.849 --> 00:18:01.789
you take back to your hotel room? No, the only

00:18:01.789 --> 00:18:04.589
homework we give is to journal. And that could

00:18:04.589 --> 00:18:07.630
be for 30 seconds. It can be very brief. It can

00:18:07.630 --> 00:18:09.309
even be done while you're still in the office.

00:18:09.329 --> 00:18:11.430
It's just an important part of like the post

00:18:11.430 --> 00:18:14.190
-trauma therapy work. It helps your brain integrate

00:18:14.190 --> 00:18:17.980
even. faster and more. It just increases the

00:18:17.980 --> 00:18:20.819
efficacy of your trauma therapy. So even if it's

00:18:20.819 --> 00:18:22.759
just a couple of sentences, we really encourage

00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:24.880
people to journal. But outside of that, no homework

00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:27.920
at all. You're doing enough work during the day.

00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:31.299
Your homework is to rest. I'm sorry, did you

00:18:31.299 --> 00:18:34.619
already say how many days? It's three and a half

00:18:34.619 --> 00:18:37.359
days. So those first three days are that structure

00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:39.440
that I just outlined. And then the last day is

00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:41.519
a short day. You just meet with your individual

00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:43.700
therapist for an outtake session. So we really

00:18:43.700 --> 00:18:47.119
wrap up the whole program. We provide treatment

00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.740
recommendations moving forward. Part of this

00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:51.980
intensive program as well is that we collaborate

00:18:51.980 --> 00:18:54.000
with outside clinicians who work with the clients

00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.819
coming to our intensive program. So anyone who

00:18:56.819 --> 00:18:58.900
participates in the Resilience Through Betrayal

00:18:58.900 --> 00:19:01.460
Intensive is required to be in some sort of outpatient

00:19:01.460 --> 00:19:04.359
therapy or coaching program because we don't

00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:06.539
want to send people off into the world without

00:19:06.539 --> 00:19:09.960
continued support. That does not have to be with

00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:12.720
us. It can be with the provider that they already

00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:15.079
have. If they have not connected with a provider

00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:17.579
yet, we can offer that service ourselves. But

00:19:17.579 --> 00:19:20.839
if we have clients who do work with providers

00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:23.400
outside of our clinic, part of that process is

00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:26.039
we collaborate. before the intensive and after

00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:28.259
the intensive with those providers to make sure

00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:30.240
that we've got continuity of care. We send them

00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:32.339
with treatment recommendations, all sorts of

00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:35.259
things like that. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah.

00:19:35.420 --> 00:19:39.700
I do love the horticultural piece. Yeah. I'll

00:19:39.700 --> 00:19:43.019
never forget my friend Jen coming over and saying,

00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:46.299
this looks like one of the best examples of self

00:19:46.299 --> 00:19:48.059
-care I've ever seen. Do you remember that, Jen?

00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:52.359
And it's amazing. It is the most amazing garden

00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:57.369
ever. Thank you. It reminds me too of that. And

00:19:57.369 --> 00:20:00.710
I have this image in front of me, but Psalm 126

00:20:00.710 --> 00:20:04.190
verses four through six say, restore our fortunes,

00:20:04.190 --> 00:20:06.309
Lord, as streams renew the desert. Those who

00:20:06.309 --> 00:20:09.250
plant in tears will harvest with shouts of joy.

00:20:09.410 --> 00:20:11.450
They weep as they go to plant their seed, but

00:20:11.450 --> 00:20:14.069
they sing as they return with the harvest. I

00:20:14.069 --> 00:20:17.390
love that image of planting and getting our fingers

00:20:17.390 --> 00:20:20.950
in the dirt and doing hard things and coming

00:20:20.950 --> 00:20:23.680
back with great results. Yeah, that message of

00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:29.420
resilience. Yes, absolutely. So what would you

00:20:29.420 --> 00:20:31.779
say is the first thing a client needs to experience

00:20:31.779 --> 00:20:38.019
at RTP? Probably safety. I mean, I think we were

00:20:38.019 --> 00:20:41.140
really hard to establish safety very early on.

00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:43.460
A lot of the clients who participate in these

00:20:43.460 --> 00:20:45.779
programs don't have a lot of emotional safety,

00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:49.319
don't have safety in their home sometimes even

00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.630
or with their families. So we try our best to

00:20:53.630 --> 00:20:57.150
create an environment that is very warm and welcoming.

00:20:57.529 --> 00:21:02.089
And, you know, myself and the two other owners

00:21:02.089 --> 00:21:04.309
of the practice, my friends, Connie and Jessica,

00:21:04.430 --> 00:21:08.009
we spent hours even trying to figure out how

00:21:08.009 --> 00:21:10.269
are we decorating our group room? What colors

00:21:10.269 --> 00:21:13.329
do we put in this lobby? Anything we can do to

00:21:13.329 --> 00:21:17.450
create an immediate sense of safety. When people

00:21:17.450 --> 00:21:19.690
arrive, we have a little bit of just kind of

00:21:19.690 --> 00:21:22.130
an orientation period, just 15 to 20 minutes.

00:21:22.430 --> 00:21:26.089
Grab your croissant, get a coffee or a tea. You

00:21:26.089 --> 00:21:28.910
know, here's where the restrooms are. This is

00:21:28.910 --> 00:21:31.890
the space you are going to be in. And just really

00:21:31.890 --> 00:21:37.390
making sure that everyone feels comfortable and

00:21:37.390 --> 00:21:41.430
some sense of safety before jumping into the

00:21:41.430 --> 00:21:44.799
program. Because it's terrifying, you know. Day

00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.740
one is just full of nerves, especially that first

00:21:47.740 --> 00:21:50.440
group. By day three, they're best friends and

00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:54.240
on a group chat and, you know, good to go. Walking

00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:56.660
into a room like that is really difficult. And

00:21:56.660 --> 00:21:59.420
so anything that we can do to ease that, that

00:21:59.420 --> 00:22:03.279
anxiety is important. Yeah. Do you find that

00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:06.859
women form lifelong friendships through these

00:22:06.859 --> 00:22:12.440
intensives or that inner circle? Yeah. Our program

00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:14.220
is relatively new. We've only been running it

00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:17.940
for about a year. So I can't exactly speak to

00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:20.640
a lifelong friendship. However, I imagine, you

00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.799
know, I do know that most of our groups have

00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:25.200
shared contact information and do remain in touch

00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:27.079
just from the clients we still have in the clinic.

00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:31.259
And it's cool because we've started to get a

00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:33.460
reputation even outside of Washington. So we

00:22:33.460 --> 00:22:35.660
do have people who fly in from other states to

00:22:35.660 --> 00:22:38.180
participate in our program. And I think there's

00:22:38.180 --> 00:22:41.359
another element that really creates some safety

00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:43.819
for our intensive clients, and especially in

00:22:43.819 --> 00:22:46.359
keeping in touch after the program, that they

00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.640
don't run in the same social circles. You know,

00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.559
Seattle is a big city, but it's a small city

00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.140
and everyone knows everyone and different communities

00:22:54.140 --> 00:22:56.299
overlap. And I think that is part of the anxiety

00:22:56.299 --> 00:22:58.519
that people come into these programs with. You

00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:00.880
know, I get a lot of questions from people as

00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:02.940
they're signing up for a program. What if I know

00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:05.339
someone? You know, do you know the names of all

00:23:05.339 --> 00:23:07.539
of the yoga teachers that are going to be coming?

00:23:07.619 --> 00:23:09.339
Because I have a friend who's a yoga teacher

00:23:09.339 --> 00:23:12.480
in your area and I'm worried that that's going

00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.950
to be who you hire to run this class. So there's

00:23:15.950 --> 00:23:21.009
a lot of fear there. However, we've never had

00:23:21.009 --> 00:23:22.930
anyone in our program who they show up and they

00:23:22.930 --> 00:23:24.569
do know each other. And I imagine if that did

00:23:24.569 --> 00:23:26.289
happen, it would probably be a really healing

00:23:26.289 --> 00:23:29.549
experience. But I do know that that is some anxiety

00:23:29.549 --> 00:23:31.710
for people. So being able to connect with other

00:23:31.710 --> 00:23:34.009
women who have shared experiences that are parts

00:23:34.009 --> 00:23:37.410
of different communities, I think it's a really

00:23:37.410 --> 00:23:41.789
cool opportunity. It would be fun to have a reunion

00:23:41.789 --> 00:23:44.400
five years down the road where... these women

00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.880
are coming in and experiencing the post -traumatic

00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.619
growth, you know, and I would just, I'm excited

00:23:51.619 --> 00:23:54.720
to hear about where this goes for you guys. Yeah.

00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:57.220
I will say the number one piece of feedback we

00:23:57.220 --> 00:24:00.339
get, we send out feedback forms at the end of

00:24:00.339 --> 00:24:02.640
every intensive where we're always changing and

00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.519
growing and developing. And we want to make sure

00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:06.960
that the program is, you know, catering to the

00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:08.579
needs of our clients. And we send out feedback

00:24:08.579 --> 00:24:10.119
forms and the number one piece of feedback, and

00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:12.339
we get this every single time. is we want an

00:24:12.339 --> 00:24:15.420
alumni program. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It is something

00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:17.160
that we've been talking about, thinking about

00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.359
a lot. And, you know, hopefully next year won't

00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:22.819
happen as often as our typical resilience through

00:24:22.819 --> 00:24:24.819
betrayal program. But I do think that that is

00:24:24.819 --> 00:24:27.539
in that's in the cards for us. Love it. That's

00:24:27.539 --> 00:24:31.680
so great. Yeah. I've got a question, but I've

00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:34.660
got a side question first. So you and I met through

00:24:34.660 --> 00:24:38.339
the APSATS organization and you talked about

00:24:38.339 --> 00:24:41.140
establishing safety is the number one thing that

00:24:41.140 --> 00:24:43.440
women need to experience right off the bat with

00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:47.039
this intensive. And so I'm curious because we've

00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.660
talked about APSATS, just sort of mentioned it,

00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:53.140
but as a clinician, as a therapist, Elizabeth,

00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:56.519
would you mind sharing with our listeners? what

00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:59.299
the APSATS organization is about, how that has

00:24:59.299 --> 00:25:02.700
influenced your practice and kind of that three

00:25:02.700 --> 00:25:05.440
-step model, you know, which I'm assuming sounding

00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:08.880
like your intensive kind of follows the APSATS

00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.559
three phases a little bit. It does. It does a

00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:14.200
little bit. So for those of you who do not know,

00:25:14.259 --> 00:25:17.039
the APSATS organization stands for the Association

00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.759
of partners of sex addicts trauma specialists

00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:21.460
it's a little bit of a mouthful but I think I

00:25:21.460 --> 00:25:24.099
said it right you did well done it's a certification

00:25:24.099 --> 00:25:28.700
process for therapists and coaches as well in

00:25:28.700 --> 00:25:31.240
in the betrayal trauma world and they use this

00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:33.220
three -part model the multi -dimensional partner

00:25:33.220 --> 00:25:35.660
model I believe is what it's called and it's

00:25:35.660 --> 00:25:37.819
got these three phases that crisis and stabilization

00:25:38.809 --> 00:25:42.069
I'm trying to even remember the verbiage of two

00:25:42.069 --> 00:25:43.470
and three, but it's essentially kind of like

00:25:43.470 --> 00:25:45.990
meaning making that trauma therapy occurs in

00:25:45.990 --> 00:25:48.410
stage two and then growth or post -traumatic

00:25:48.410 --> 00:25:50.549
growth is really stage three. The transformation

00:25:50.549 --> 00:25:52.650
piece. The transformation. Yep, that's right.

00:25:53.670 --> 00:25:59.230
So our program does integrate those ideas. Absolutely.

00:25:59.250 --> 00:26:03.029
We do spend some work talking about crisis stabilization.

00:26:03.130 --> 00:26:05.809
I will say by the time clients get to our intensive.

00:26:06.569 --> 00:26:09.190
They have had some crisis intervention already,

00:26:09.289 --> 00:26:12.329
some stabilization. Most of them are in therapy.

00:26:12.509 --> 00:26:18.369
So there's enough of, okay, I have some tools,

00:26:18.430 --> 00:26:22.490
or at least I know what tools could be. It's

00:26:22.490 --> 00:26:26.289
actually doing it that's hard, right? So most

00:26:26.289 --> 00:26:28.289
of the women who come to us have already read

00:26:28.289 --> 00:26:29.690
all the books, listened to all the podcasts.

00:26:30.549 --> 00:26:32.789
People who have experienced betrayal trauma are

00:26:32.789 --> 00:26:34.910
some of the most educated women I've ever sat

00:26:34.910 --> 00:26:37.619
with. because really absorbing all of the information

00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:40.460
and researching their experience, which I think

00:26:40.460 --> 00:26:43.220
is so valuable. We do hit on a little bit of

00:26:43.220 --> 00:26:46.880
that. So we do talk about like boundaries. We

00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:49.559
do talk about coping skills, different things

00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:52.740
like that. But I will say that I think we probably

00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:56.819
hover more in that stage too. Our program does.

00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.140
Because we are so focused on the trauma therapy

00:26:59.140 --> 00:27:03.410
and that's really where... trauma therapy typically

00:27:03.410 --> 00:27:06.049
happens in in stage two once you've managed the

00:27:06.049 --> 00:27:08.589
crisis but we also see trauma therapy as a way

00:27:08.589 --> 00:27:12.890
to manage the crisis so we kind of we do we kind

00:27:12.890 --> 00:27:16.150
of touch on on all three actually now that I'm

00:27:16.150 --> 00:27:17.710
thinking about it and we're talking through it

00:27:17.710 --> 00:27:20.890
because we definitely we weave in post -traumatic

00:27:20.890 --> 00:27:24.410
growth and obviously resilience and Yeah. I know

00:27:24.410 --> 00:27:27.869
they talk about grief, work, and stage two a

00:27:27.869 --> 00:27:30.890
lot, and yeah, developing a plan to move forward,

00:27:30.950 --> 00:27:32.990
et cetera. So I love that. Thank you for answering

00:27:32.990 --> 00:27:35.470
that question. I think our listeners understand

00:27:35.470 --> 00:27:38.609
a little bit better of the value of finding someone

00:27:38.609 --> 00:27:41.190
who is certified, APSAT certified, or at least

00:27:41.190 --> 00:27:44.029
informed in those stages, because it's so important

00:27:44.029 --> 00:27:47.509
to do things in the right order of healing as

00:27:47.509 --> 00:27:50.109
much as possible. What is the desired outcome

00:27:50.109 --> 00:27:53.700
of this intensive? or the three of you or the

00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:56.799
people that you have leading it? Yeah, I think

00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:59.220
that everyone's individual journey is a little

00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:02.420
bit different. As clinicians, our goal is always

00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:06.700
going to be decreased symptoms of trauma and

00:28:06.700 --> 00:28:08.539
increased emotional regulation and stabilization.

00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:12.619
We want people to walk out of our program feeling

00:28:12.619 --> 00:28:15.799
more regulated, more in control, and more confident.

00:28:16.460 --> 00:28:19.519
in their own abilities and their abilities to

00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:21.339
make whatever decisions are best for them and

00:28:21.339 --> 00:28:25.539
their family. And I think that that's what people

00:28:25.539 --> 00:28:27.940
experience when they come work with us. That's

00:28:27.940 --> 00:28:34.420
so good. I know that for me, you know, there's

00:28:34.420 --> 00:28:37.960
this element that we have called co -regulation.

00:28:38.339 --> 00:28:41.720
Yes. And when you're married, that is very much

00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:47.460
a piece of the marriage. And it is a really challenging

00:28:47.460 --> 00:28:50.680
transition. I mean, we should all have some self

00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:53.440
-regulation, but co -regulation is a part of

00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:55.519
being in a relationship with anybody. I have

00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:58.700
it with Chris, you know? So here we are in relationship

00:28:58.700 --> 00:29:02.279
with our spouse and we are transitioning from

00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:07.759
some amount of co -regulation to self -regulation.

00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.460
So I'm really glad to hear that you guys touch

00:29:10.460 --> 00:29:14.029
on that a little bit because I don't think that

00:29:14.029 --> 00:29:17.950
I anticipated this concept at all. There was,

00:29:17.950 --> 00:29:19.529
there were too many things to think about, let's

00:29:19.529 --> 00:29:23.329
be honest. And, but it is absolutely the key

00:29:23.329 --> 00:29:29.009
to creating safety within your body. And gosh,

00:29:30.670 --> 00:29:34.589
I just, I'd love to hear a little bit more about

00:29:34.589 --> 00:29:38.430
that. And, and so if you could touch on that

00:29:38.430 --> 00:29:41.910
a little bit and also. You mentioned, you know,

00:29:41.950 --> 00:29:44.609
like this outline of things that you have. How

00:29:44.609 --> 00:29:47.950
in the world do you keep your participants from

00:29:47.950 --> 00:29:51.170
reaching that saturation point by noon? Or not

00:29:51.170 --> 00:29:53.049
reaching it. Or not reaching it. Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:53.210 --> 00:29:55.829
Yeah. Oversaturation. Oversaturation. Especially

00:29:55.829 --> 00:29:58.069
if we're learning to self -regulate. That is

00:29:58.069 --> 00:30:01.519
absolutely exhausting. It is exhausting. Yes.

00:30:01.579 --> 00:30:03.240
Okay. So let me speak to the self -regulation

00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:06.299
piece first. So really how we achieve that self

00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:09.099
-regulation in our program specifically is through

00:30:09.099 --> 00:30:11.160
the trauma therapy interventions we use. So it's

00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:14.619
less about tool building. We do do a little bit

00:30:14.619 --> 00:30:17.309
of tool building. But it's really the trauma

00:30:17.309 --> 00:30:19.609
therapy that increases self -regulation. If we

00:30:19.609 --> 00:30:22.069
can decrease your symptoms of trauma, then you're

00:30:22.069 --> 00:30:24.049
more able to regulate yourself, right? You're

00:30:24.049 --> 00:30:26.190
not going to be experiencing the intensity of

00:30:26.190 --> 00:30:27.589
the emotions with triggers. You're not going

00:30:27.589 --> 00:30:29.470
to have as many triggers. You're going to be

00:30:29.470 --> 00:30:32.490
able to tolerate distress more effectively. And

00:30:32.490 --> 00:30:36.970
so we don't necessarily spend a lot of time teaching

00:30:36.970 --> 00:30:42.069
self -regulation skills. that is just a natural

00:30:42.069 --> 00:30:44.910
product of the program based on the trauma therapy

00:30:44.910 --> 00:30:48.150
that you participate in. We do talk about boundaries

00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:50.710
and we do talk about safety. And so that co -regulation

00:30:50.710 --> 00:30:54.220
piece is a part of the conversation, right? co

00:30:54.220 --> 00:30:56.700
-regulate effectively with someone who your body

00:30:56.700 --> 00:30:59.119
is telling you is not safe right now. And so

00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:01.339
boundaries is about establishing safety for yourself.

00:31:01.460 --> 00:31:03.839
Part of that is, you know, emotional safety.

00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:05.599
Maybe we're co -regulating with other people

00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:07.339
in our life and not our partners. Like where

00:31:07.339 --> 00:31:09.299
else can you get some of that safety? But then

00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:11.000
it's really developing that safety within your

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.019
sense of self. I'm going to pause us there for

00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:18.839
just a moment because this is huge. The co -regulation

00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.539
or the self -regulation is not a tool. It's a

00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:27.619
result. Of the work you've done. And so I think

00:31:27.619 --> 00:31:30.220
for many of us that are looking to maybe fast

00:31:30.220 --> 00:31:33.200
forward a little bit or like if I could just

00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:35.980
gain this concept and apply this tool, then I

00:31:35.980 --> 00:31:40.680
can self -regulate and then I can do X, Y, and

00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:45.960
Z. But that's not it, is it? And I have to say

00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.539
that I haven't heard that a lot when it comes

00:31:48.539 --> 00:31:50.740
to in the counseling world and the coaching world

00:31:50.740 --> 00:31:53.599
even. A lot of times we'll... hand down these

00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:55.559
little acronyms and these little three -point

00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:58.299
things. Here's how you self -regulate. Yeah.

00:31:58.420 --> 00:32:00.420
That's not what we're hearing here today. What

00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:04.660
we're hearing is once you feel safe, then you

00:32:04.660 --> 00:32:07.019
have access. You're within that window of tolerance

00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:11.880
and you have access to yourself to manage your

00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:13.980
internal world, to make decisions and to make

00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:17.539
boundaries that continue you into this healing

00:32:17.539 --> 00:32:20.569
process. I feel like we just got handed a new

00:32:20.569 --> 00:32:22.930
key to a door we haven't been able to unlock

00:32:22.930 --> 00:32:25.930
yet. Yeah. With that information. That's good.

00:32:26.190 --> 00:32:29.329
And all trauma therapy increases that window

00:32:29.329 --> 00:32:31.829
of tolerance. I think that's a great point to

00:32:31.829 --> 00:32:33.369
bring in is that window of tolerance. If we can

00:32:33.369 --> 00:32:35.069
increase your window of tolerance, you're staying

00:32:35.069 --> 00:32:37.950
in it more and more every single day. And so

00:32:37.950 --> 00:32:40.390
there are tools for self -regulation, right?

00:32:40.529 --> 00:32:42.269
Therapists know them. Coaches know them. We teach

00:32:42.269 --> 00:32:45.569
them to our clients. And they are hard to implement.

00:32:46.630 --> 00:32:49.349
We work really, really hard and sometimes they

00:32:49.349 --> 00:32:51.009
work and sometimes they don't. And it's not that

00:32:51.009 --> 00:32:55.049
they're not helpful. I think from my clinical

00:32:55.049 --> 00:32:57.190
perspective, it's just incomplete. And if we

00:32:57.190 --> 00:33:00.069
have an intervention that can get you there faster,

00:33:00.230 --> 00:33:04.430
why are we not using it? Yeah. And you said earlier,

00:33:04.670 --> 00:33:07.109
Elizabeth, that this intensive is expensive.

00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:11.599
And I don't know what the amount is. And I'm

00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:13.460
hoping that you'll share it at the end of our

00:33:13.460 --> 00:33:19.779
talk. But what better way to use your money?

00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:23.339
I love Dave Ramsey says, don't let your money

00:33:23.339 --> 00:33:25.359
tell you where to go. You tell your money where

00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:28.400
to go. And what a great investment in your future,

00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:31.140
in your present, in your joy, in your ability.

00:33:32.269 --> 00:33:35.369
to live a great life. So it's, you know, expensive,

00:33:35.569 --> 00:33:37.970
I think is relative. I think it costs more to

00:33:37.970 --> 00:33:40.430
not. What's more, what's also as expensive as

00:33:40.430 --> 00:33:43.170
going to the doctor and having high blood pressure

00:33:43.170 --> 00:33:48.009
medication. And for those that do massage therapy,

00:33:48.170 --> 00:33:51.710
massage therapists are expensive. You know, and

00:33:51.710 --> 00:33:54.789
there's a lot, a lot of costs that go into healing.

00:33:54.930 --> 00:33:57.309
Why not apply it in the most effective place?

00:33:58.700 --> 00:34:01.140
There are a lot of costs. And this is the exact

00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:04.480
conversation that I have with clients or individuals

00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:06.380
who are interested in coming to participate in

00:34:06.380 --> 00:34:09.159
our intensive. We almost ruin it. Can you afford

00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:11.380
not to do it? If your body is shutting down and

00:34:11.380 --> 00:34:13.360
you're not functional, if you can't go to work,

00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:17.059
you're not sleeping, you're not eating. Yeah,

00:34:17.059 --> 00:34:20.659
absolutely. And because it really jumpstarts

00:34:20.659 --> 00:34:22.880
the healing, because it speeds along that integration,

00:34:23.139 --> 00:34:26.480
because it works to transform the neurobiology

00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.179
in your brain. It's going to get you faster,

00:34:29.380 --> 00:34:31.559
get you there faster. And so, you know, I have

00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:33.940
clients who say, oh, you know, I can only afford

00:34:33.940 --> 00:34:38.159
therapy once every week. I get it. I hear you.

00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:41.880
I understand. And what if this intensive could

00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:43.860
make it so that then you only have to go to therapy

00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:46.940
once a month? And then you actually stop therapy

00:34:46.940 --> 00:34:50.920
two years before you would if you were just going

00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:53.480
once a week. So it really is just about where

00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:55.900
you want to allocate your resources and doing

00:34:55.900 --> 00:35:00.179
it wisely. Yeah. Okay. So what about that saturation

00:35:00.179 --> 00:35:04.800
point before noon? That's right. So I think one

00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.079
of the things that we do, and this is, again,

00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:09.199
part of what differentiates us from some other

00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:12.199
programs out there, is we don't do a lot of education.

00:35:13.219 --> 00:35:17.679
We're not pumping out a ton of new information.

00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:19.960
Like I said, most of the clients who come to

00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:24.849
us are very well -educated. have read the books.

00:35:24.929 --> 00:35:27.710
In our first group of the program, we talk about

00:35:27.710 --> 00:35:30.309
attachment ambivalence and Michelle Mays. I'm

00:35:30.309 --> 00:35:32.130
sure you all are familiar with her work and The

00:35:32.130 --> 00:35:34.170
Betrayal Bind. It's such a fantastic resource.

00:35:34.449 --> 00:35:35.829
And everyone is like, yeah, yeah, I've read that

00:35:35.829 --> 00:35:38.409
book. I'm like, perfect, because now this is

00:35:38.409 --> 00:35:40.170
your second exposure to it and you can intake

00:35:40.170 --> 00:35:43.369
it a little bit better, right? So we're not giving

00:35:43.369 --> 00:35:47.630
a lot of new information. We do have one psychoeducation

00:35:47.630 --> 00:35:51.639
group a day with very specific topics. But it's

00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:53.639
not a lot of new information. It's much more

00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:57.179
experiential. And the information that we do

00:35:57.179 --> 00:35:59.940
provide, we also give you like a book to take

00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:03.800
home with you, right? So we have a workbook that

00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:06.679
myself and the other founders of the program

00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:09.119
have created. And it is not meant for homework.

00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:11.940
We are very clear, like do not even open this

00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:14.099
book until you get home, like home from the program.

00:36:14.420 --> 00:36:16.500
You don't need it right now, but know that everything

00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:18.320
that we are talking about today and right now

00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:21.210
is... is something that you can take home with

00:36:21.210 --> 00:36:23.489
you and reference later. So we really try to

00:36:23.489 --> 00:36:25.469
make sure that we give those resources so that

00:36:25.469 --> 00:36:27.030
they can revisit them, but we're not pumping

00:36:27.030 --> 00:36:31.050
out a bunch of new information. Our program is

00:36:31.050 --> 00:36:33.329
much more experiential. So our morning groups

00:36:33.329 --> 00:36:36.110
are what are called process groups. So again,

00:36:36.150 --> 00:36:37.969
it's a lot about shared experiences, connections,

00:36:38.389 --> 00:36:41.710
expression of emotional experiences. For example,

00:36:41.710 --> 00:36:43.449
one of our groups is an anger and grief group.

00:36:43.849 --> 00:36:46.780
So we talk about What is anger? How do we feel

00:36:46.780 --> 00:36:48.599
anger? What are the different types of anger?

00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:50.900
How can you own your anger? You know, as women,

00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:52.840
we're often told you can't be angry or if you're

00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:55.619
angry, you're aggressive or, you know, all of

00:36:55.619 --> 00:36:58.340
these messages that just are a part of our society.

00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:01.960
And so just providing our clients with an opportunity

00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:05.460
to like claim their anger because they have a

00:37:05.460 --> 00:37:07.739
right to be angry about what has happened is

00:37:07.739 --> 00:37:10.920
really powerful. So so that's what that's what

00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:13.019
the morning looks like is that process group.

00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.260
We take breaks. Hour -long lunch break. Like

00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:17.739
I said, we're across the street from the park.

00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:21.059
Go take a walk. Please leave the office. Go walk

00:37:21.059 --> 00:37:23.199
down to Starbucks. Do whatever you need to do.

00:37:23.539 --> 00:37:27.820
Just take a little reprieve. And then, you know,

00:37:27.860 --> 00:37:30.000
we have the afternoon trauma therapy sessions

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.980
and those psycho ed groups. But really, so information

00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:37.139
overload is not an issue. It's not as much an

00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:39.980
information overload. Do people get fatigued?

00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:46.230
Yes. However. That's what we want. It is okay

00:37:46.230 --> 00:37:49.010
if you are fatigued and tired or emotionally

00:37:49.010 --> 00:37:52.570
drained because that is a really, really good

00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:55.650
spot to be in to do the trauma therapy work.

00:37:56.750 --> 00:38:02.510
The more in touch one is with their emotional

00:38:02.510 --> 00:38:04.570
experience, which we tend to be more in touch

00:38:04.570 --> 00:38:06.530
with them when we're a little bit fatigued, right?

00:38:06.610 --> 00:38:09.150
The more effective the trauma therapy is. So

00:38:09.150 --> 00:38:11.889
we don't actually mind that. If you're feeling

00:38:11.889 --> 00:38:14.110
a little raw, a little vulnerable, amazing. Let's

00:38:14.110 --> 00:38:17.690
dig in. Wow. I did not know that. That is so

00:38:17.690 --> 00:38:20.590
cool. All right. Good to know. So Elizabeth,

00:38:20.670 --> 00:38:24.090
what difference do you see with your clients

00:38:24.090 --> 00:38:27.409
who don't go through this intensive versus the

00:38:27.409 --> 00:38:29.909
clients who do go through it? What are the outcomes

00:38:29.909 --> 00:38:34.980
that you see as a therapist? Generally. What

00:38:34.980 --> 00:38:37.340
I see is that increased emotional regulation

00:38:37.340 --> 00:38:39.440
and that increased sense of safety with self.

00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:42.480
You know, we talk a lot about attachment and

00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.719
finding secure attachment, not necessarily in

00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:47.920
our relationships, but within ourself. And I

00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:49.940
think the clients who participate in our intensives

00:38:49.940 --> 00:38:53.219
are able to do that much quicker. They have decreased

00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:57.420
symptoms of PTSD much quicker. They feel physically

00:38:57.420 --> 00:39:00.289
better. They're sleeping, you know. Headaches

00:39:00.289 --> 00:39:03.110
have decreased. Chronic pain or fatigue has decreased.

00:39:03.429 --> 00:39:05.989
They're able to get back to living their lives,

00:39:06.150 --> 00:39:11.469
I think, just more quickly, really. One of the

00:39:11.469 --> 00:39:13.550
things that I see as a coach or that I've even

00:39:13.550 --> 00:39:16.289
experienced personally is the overthinking, too,

00:39:16.309 --> 00:39:19.849
which is exhausting. And the safety -seeking

00:39:19.849 --> 00:39:23.349
habits, which are good, but can be exhausting

00:39:23.349 --> 00:39:26.610
and sometimes can turn on us, too, and become

00:39:26.610 --> 00:39:30.760
unhealthy. Yeah. So do you see that as well?

00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:33.860
I'm sure you do. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely do.

00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:36.099
And actually, this brings up another interesting

00:39:36.099 --> 00:39:39.460
point, I think, a benefit of really any therapeutic

00:39:39.460 --> 00:39:42.179
intensive program, as long as it really is that

00:39:42.179 --> 00:39:46.039
therapy and not as much of a retreat style. We

00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:48.039
see a lot of other co -occurring mental health

00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:49.940
issues and betrayal trauma, and sometimes it

00:39:49.940 --> 00:39:52.719
takes clinicians and providers a long time to

00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:55.219
tease it out. Because some of the symptoms overlap

00:39:55.219 --> 00:39:57.219
so significantly, right? Betrayal trauma and

00:39:57.219 --> 00:40:02.659
ADHD, betrayal trauma and OCD. We see, I mean,

00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:05.340
the symptoms can be the same. And so sometimes

00:40:05.340 --> 00:40:08.219
there's actually something more going on than

00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:10.440
the betrayal trauma itself. Sometimes there is

00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:13.659
an undiagnosed ADHD. Sometimes there's undiagnosed

00:40:13.659 --> 00:40:17.230
OCD. And so when we get clients in our program,

00:40:17.349 --> 00:40:19.250
when we get them multiple days in a row, when

00:40:19.250 --> 00:40:21.170
we see how their brain responds to the trauma

00:40:21.170 --> 00:40:23.530
therapy, when we see how they show up in a group

00:40:23.530 --> 00:40:26.050
setting, when other clinicians in our clinic

00:40:26.050 --> 00:40:28.809
also get to collaborate on their care, we're

00:40:28.809 --> 00:40:30.690
typically able to come up with a more accurate

00:40:30.690 --> 00:40:32.809
diagnosis, which then can actually change the

00:40:32.809 --> 00:40:35.030
course of their treatment. So we've had clients

00:40:35.030 --> 00:40:38.329
who have come in where at day two, I'm like,

00:40:38.369 --> 00:40:40.210
wow, I just really think there's something else

00:40:40.210 --> 00:40:41.789
going on. And so we're able to do a little bit

00:40:41.789 --> 00:40:44.280
more assessment. And it turns out they probably

00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:48.159
have undiagnosed OCD, which is a whole different

00:40:48.159 --> 00:40:50.739
treatment plan, right? It's a whole different

00:40:50.739 --> 00:40:52.519
medication regimen if they're working with a

00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:55.179
psychiatrist. And so that is another thing that

00:40:55.179 --> 00:40:57.039
I think is really important about, or just like

00:40:57.039 --> 00:41:00.179
an extra benefit of being able to be seen by

00:41:00.179 --> 00:41:03.880
multiple providers and seen over, you know, long

00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:05.960
days over a short period of time is we just get

00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:08.460
so much more information as clinicians so that

00:41:08.460 --> 00:41:10.679
we can provide the best and most accurate treatment

00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:13.610
plan for our clients. And I love that idea of

00:41:13.610 --> 00:41:16.769
groupthink. You know, you've got a team of people

00:41:16.769 --> 00:41:19.429
with eyes on you, finding those comorbidities

00:41:19.429 --> 00:41:23.090
and other issues and being able to untangle all

00:41:23.090 --> 00:41:25.570
those wires. That's so powerful. Yeah. Yeah.

00:41:25.610 --> 00:41:29.170
Having a diagnosis changes everything. It really,

00:41:29.170 --> 00:41:34.909
really can. And when you're doing this treatment

00:41:34.909 --> 00:41:37.929
therapy, whether it be in the intensive or outside

00:41:37.929 --> 00:41:40.210
of the intensive, I'm assuming you see people.

00:41:40.599 --> 00:41:44.139
outside of the intensives. You know, many of

00:41:44.139 --> 00:41:48.059
us are familiar with things like EMDR or brain

00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:53.039
spotting. I have a client who, you know, well,

00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:55.320
let's just say that some people respond really

00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:59.260
well to those things. Other people don't necessarily.

00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:02.739
So what kind of trauma therapies do you use that

00:42:02.739 --> 00:42:06.179
you guys find effective? Yeah, we use a trauma

00:42:06.179 --> 00:42:09.769
therapy that's not as common. It's called emotional

00:42:09.769 --> 00:42:13.469
transformation therapy or ETT. It's based out

00:42:13.469 --> 00:42:16.210
of Austin, Texas. The founder's name is Dr. Vasquez.

00:42:16.250 --> 00:42:19.869
He is one of the most intelligent people I've

00:42:19.869 --> 00:42:22.769
ever met in my entire life. He's fantastic. And

00:42:22.769 --> 00:42:25.329
he developed this trauma treatment modality and

00:42:25.329 --> 00:42:28.309
it just really kind of stayed in Texas. You know,

00:42:28.309 --> 00:42:30.889
he trained all of his own clinicians. He would

00:42:30.889 --> 00:42:32.610
bring in students and train them. So you go down

00:42:32.610 --> 00:42:35.489
to the South and most people know, most clinicians

00:42:35.489 --> 00:42:38.329
know what ETT is. A lot of clinicians are certified.

00:42:38.909 --> 00:42:41.309
um in that treatment modality and up here it's

00:42:41.309 --> 00:42:45.610
just not as common and so we are i believe our

00:42:45.610 --> 00:42:48.329
clinic has the only certified ett providers in

00:42:48.329 --> 00:42:50.429
the state of washington and actually that could

00:42:50.429 --> 00:42:52.489
be true even in the entirety of the pacific northwest

00:42:52.489 --> 00:42:54.929
and so it's it's unique it's a little bit different

00:42:54.929 --> 00:42:58.070
it has not yet been empirically validated so

00:42:58.070 --> 00:43:00.329
similar to brain spotting has not been empirically

00:43:00.329 --> 00:43:02.090
validated yet it's kind of we're coming on the

00:43:02.090 --> 00:43:04.349
heels of emdr right so everyone knows what emdr

00:43:04.349 --> 00:43:07.130
is and the These other trauma treatment modalities

00:43:07.130 --> 00:43:08.869
where there's a lot of research, but we're still

00:43:08.869 --> 00:43:11.110
doing more research, are kind of coming on the

00:43:11.110 --> 00:43:13.409
heels of it, and ETT is one of those. And clinicians

00:43:13.409 --> 00:43:15.670
in our clinic are trained in other modalities.

00:43:15.690 --> 00:43:18.690
We have clinicians who are trained in EMDR as

00:43:18.690 --> 00:43:21.449
well, and they just don't use it anymore because

00:43:21.449 --> 00:43:23.590
what we have found is that ECT is the most effective

00:43:23.590 --> 00:43:25.909
for our clients. Are they similar in how they're

00:43:25.909 --> 00:43:30.610
used, like with the eyes and all of that? There

00:43:30.610 --> 00:43:32.650
are some similarities. There are also some differences.

00:43:32.809 --> 00:43:35.489
So with ETT, we do do different eye movements

00:43:35.489 --> 00:43:38.889
and we also use light and color. EMDR uses a

00:43:38.889 --> 00:43:42.400
light bar. ETT uses some light as well, but we

00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:45.599
integrate different color wavelengths in addition

00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.260
to the light. What the research, well, the research

00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:52.139
that was pulled from in order to kind of find

00:43:52.139 --> 00:43:54.760
or found this treatment modality is originally

00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:57.440
from like marketing and interior design teams

00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:01.199
do research on the psychology of color. And that

00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:04.599
wasn't something that. therapeutically was studied

00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.860
often, but Dr. Vasquez was able to dig into that

00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:10.239
research with a theory that he had to create

00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:12.360
this modality. And what that research shows is

00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:14.500
that colors are associated with emotion. And

00:44:14.500 --> 00:44:17.380
so there's endless research out there about it,

00:44:17.420 --> 00:44:19.079
right? Because interior designers want to decorate

00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:21.079
spaces that are desirable to our brains. Same

00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:22.579
with marketing teams. They want to market products

00:44:22.579 --> 00:44:24.519
that are desirable to people's brains. And so

00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:26.519
he was able to use that research and then integrate

00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:28.579
it into this therapeutic modality. And so we

00:44:28.579 --> 00:44:31.699
use color to get people in touch with the intensity

00:44:31.699 --> 00:44:35.280
of that emotion. or kind of, you know, prompt

00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:41.000
different experiences that maybe are not like

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:43.559
right on the surface. If someone needs to do

00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:45.900
a little bit of grief processing and cognitively

00:44:45.900 --> 00:44:47.619
they know that, but they're having a hard time

00:44:47.619 --> 00:44:49.519
getting in touch with the emotions of it, we

00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.539
can expose their eyes to a color that's associated

00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:54.179
with sadness and grief and it helps them get

00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:56.380
in touch with that emotional experience. Ooh,

00:44:56.539 --> 00:44:59.320
that's fascinating. It is absolutely. I love

00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:02.380
green. And anyone that knows me loves, knows

00:45:02.380 --> 00:45:04.300
that I love nature, pine trees specifically.

00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:09.920
Right. So, and, and so that is just being my

00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:14.000
house, the outside of my house is green. I can't

00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.199
keep plants alive like Chris. So unfortunately

00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:19.300
there's probably some work to do there, but,

00:45:19.300 --> 00:45:23.460
but yeah, that's amazing. I, when I see that

00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:27.889
dark color green, my shoulders drop. Yeah. And

00:45:27.889 --> 00:45:29.989
it probably has a lot to do with those experiences

00:45:29.989 --> 00:45:33.949
of where I feel safe. Yeah. Color, do you associate

00:45:33.949 --> 00:45:36.750
with sadness? Because as Elizabeth was talking,

00:45:36.929 --> 00:45:39.929
I was trying to think, what color is sad to me?

00:45:40.429 --> 00:45:43.150
Well, I don't know what color is sad to me. But

00:45:43.150 --> 00:45:45.170
I will say what's coming to mind right now as

00:45:45.170 --> 00:45:47.250
we're talking about it is I really struggle with

00:45:47.250 --> 00:45:49.829
the color pink. I don't like the color pink.

00:45:49.969 --> 00:45:53.489
And I have a mother wound. And my mom's favorite

00:45:53.489 --> 00:45:58.300
color was pink. So Elizabeth, yes. There is something

00:45:58.300 --> 00:46:01.659
there. That's amazing. Yeah. And it's a good

00:46:01.659 --> 00:46:03.980
question. And it is interesting that the colors

00:46:03.980 --> 00:46:05.860
are not, it's not necessarily intuitive. Like

00:46:05.860 --> 00:46:08.380
what we would, would think green is actually,

00:46:08.420 --> 00:46:10.519
and everything is a spectrum, right? So although,

00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:12.619
you know, this color is associated with grief

00:46:12.619 --> 00:46:15.440
and sadness on the other spectrum, it's, it's

00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:18.739
joy and happiness and empathy. And so it depends

00:46:18.739 --> 00:46:21.219
on really the state of mind you're in, what you're

00:46:21.219 --> 00:46:24.199
thinking about. which emotion is going to come

00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:26.420
out. So, so green is actually the color associated

00:46:26.420 --> 00:46:30.619
with sadness. However, on the other end of that

00:46:30.619 --> 00:46:35.659
spectrum, happiness, peace, empathy, love. And

00:46:35.659 --> 00:46:40.320
so it really depends. It depends on the day.

00:46:40.420 --> 00:46:42.559
It depends on your experience. It depends on

00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:45.019
the moment. And so sometimes we have. We have,

00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:46.760
we call them resource colors. So if you have

00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:48.300
a color that you're really drawn to, we call

00:46:48.300 --> 00:46:49.719
that a resource color. It's a color that your

00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.460
brain really loves. And maybe your resource color

00:46:52.460 --> 00:46:54.800
right now is green and that's what soothes you,

00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:57.079
but it can change over time depending on your

00:46:57.079 --> 00:46:59.199
life experiences. So although it might be green

00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:04.860
right now, if you have. an experience that is

00:47:04.860 --> 00:47:07.719
really significant with grief or sadness upcoming

00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:09.820
you might struggle with green for a little bit

00:47:09.820 --> 00:47:12.099
but when you move through those emotional experiences

00:47:12.099 --> 00:47:14.639
it can become a resource color again so there

00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:16.460
is like you're saying there's a reason why people

00:47:16.460 --> 00:47:18.260
like to go walk in the forest and we like to

00:47:18.260 --> 00:47:19.960
be outside and look at the green grass and the

00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:22.559
trees um there's a reason that people love the

00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.320
ocean and blues and want to just stare at the

00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:28.219
water right we can almost like We use those colors

00:47:28.219 --> 00:47:30.139
to help support our own emotional experience.

00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:32.780
So what you're saying is this isn't black and

00:47:32.780 --> 00:47:45.800
white. Come on. Come on. The other thing that

00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:48.340
sets ETT apart from EMDR, which I just want to

00:47:48.340 --> 00:47:50.599
mention, and I actually think that this is what

00:47:50.599 --> 00:47:53.429
makes. the the treatment modality of ect stand

00:47:53.429 --> 00:47:56.050
out the most and why we use it why it is so effective

00:47:56.050 --> 00:47:59.070
and why it just speeds the process along all

00:47:59.070 --> 00:48:01.650
trauma therapy is amazing i will say that too

00:48:01.650 --> 00:48:04.710
emdr brain spotting prolonged exposure therapy

00:48:04.710 --> 00:48:07.730
every single trauma therapy at the end of the

00:48:07.730 --> 00:48:09.909
day will get you the same results that's what

00:48:09.909 --> 00:48:13.550
the research says however they will get you there

00:48:13.550 --> 00:48:16.829
at different speeds and so that's that's maybe

00:48:16.829 --> 00:48:19.150
the thing to consider. And ETT in our experience

00:48:19.150 --> 00:48:20.590
and what the research is saying is it just gets

00:48:20.590 --> 00:48:22.750
you there faster. And it's because of this. There's

00:48:22.750 --> 00:48:26.449
an element of biofeedback to ETT. So if you all

00:48:26.449 --> 00:48:28.230
are familiar with biofeedback, that means we

00:48:28.230 --> 00:48:30.389
get real -time information from someone's brain

00:48:30.389 --> 00:48:34.610
while we are doing the therapy. Now, when we

00:48:34.610 --> 00:48:37.590
are dissociating or in fight or flight, we cannot

00:48:37.590 --> 00:48:40.329
do any trauma processing. Like our brain is in

00:48:40.329 --> 00:48:42.170
a state of trauma and it is not going to happen.

00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:45.400
And so your brain has to be integrated in order

00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:47.820
to really move through the traumatic experiences

00:48:47.820 --> 00:48:51.960
in a way that decreases your symptoms. I'll just

00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:55.320
give you my little short neurobiology lesson

00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:56.960
here. If either of you are familiar with - Well,

00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.280
Jen's going to hate this because, I'm kidding,

00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:01.980
Jen loves brain science. It's your pen. Oh, yeah.

00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:04.679
Jen's got, listeners, Jen's got her notebook

00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.000
out. She's got a pen. Where's your highlighter,

00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:09.780
girl? Okay. Take it away, Elizabeth, please.

00:49:11.150 --> 00:49:13.250
Some of you might be familiar with Dan Siegel.

00:49:13.570 --> 00:49:16.030
He's a pediatric psychiatrist. Fantastic. He

00:49:16.030 --> 00:49:18.869
wrote the book Mindsight. He's done a lot of

00:49:18.869 --> 00:49:23.309
research. And he developed this model. Because

00:49:23.309 --> 00:49:25.230
he's a pediatric psychiatrist, all of his stuff

00:49:25.230 --> 00:49:26.909
is very approachable, which is why I like it.

00:49:26.949 --> 00:49:28.690
But I use it with adults, too, because it's just

00:49:28.690 --> 00:49:31.170
so easy to talk about. It just makes so much

00:49:31.170 --> 00:49:33.369
sense. So he talks about the hand model of the

00:49:33.369 --> 00:49:35.389
brain. And his hand model of the brain is if

00:49:35.389 --> 00:49:37.989
you make a fist with your hand, your thumb is,

00:49:38.230 --> 00:49:40.820
yep, four fingers wrap around your thumb. And

00:49:40.820 --> 00:49:43.320
so we pretend that this is your brain. Your thumb

00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:45.059
is your amygdala, which is your emotional regulation

00:49:45.059 --> 00:49:47.000
center, right? That's where fight or flight lives.

00:49:47.239 --> 00:49:49.639
Your forefingers are your prefrontal cortex that

00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:52.320
wrap around that amygdala. Your prefrontal cortex

00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:54.719
lives behind your forehead. That is critical

00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.440
thinking, logic, decision making. Up there is

00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:00.400
also the hippocampus. That's where our memories

00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:03.960
are stored. And so this is a little bit of a

00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:06.559
metaphor, but it also is biologically what happens

00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:09.579
in your brain. When we experience that fight

00:50:09.579 --> 00:50:12.059
or flight response or have a big emotional reaction

00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:14.659
to something because of trauma, our amygdala

00:50:14.659 --> 00:50:17.099
gets activated. And it metaphorically pushes

00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:19.940
against your prefrontal cortex until you do what

00:50:19.940 --> 00:50:24.820
Dan Siegel calls flip your lid. And now when

00:50:24.820 --> 00:50:27.179
your lid is flipped, your amygdala, that emotional

00:50:27.179 --> 00:50:29.179
regulation center in your prefrontal cortex,

00:50:29.480 --> 00:50:33.059
logic, critical thinking, decision making, memory

00:50:33.059 --> 00:50:35.989
storage. There is a biological block between

00:50:35.989 --> 00:50:37.769
those two parts of your brain. They are no longer

00:50:37.769 --> 00:50:40.489
communicating with each other. This is why we

00:50:40.489 --> 00:50:43.210
experience and we hear people say, I know this

00:50:43.210 --> 00:50:45.610
to be true, but I feel something different. I

00:50:45.610 --> 00:50:48.590
know it, but I don't know it. Yes. Those parts

00:50:48.590 --> 00:50:51.170
of your brain are not communicating. We cannot

00:50:51.170 --> 00:50:53.449
do trauma therapy when your brain is in fight

00:50:53.449 --> 00:50:56.070
or flight. It is not effective. So this is also

00:50:56.070 --> 00:50:57.849
when you hear people say, but I've talked about

00:50:57.849 --> 00:50:59.489
this a hundred times and I don't feel better.

00:51:00.059 --> 00:51:01.460
Right. It's because you're checked out. Your

00:51:01.460 --> 00:51:03.179
brain is dissociating the whole time you're talking

00:51:03.179 --> 00:51:04.639
about it. So, of course, you don't feel better.

00:51:04.900 --> 00:51:07.960
And so what we have to do is we have to ground.

00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:10.260
You use a grounding skill, right? Deep breath,

00:51:10.460 --> 00:51:12.920
muscle movement, wiggle your toes and fingers.

00:51:13.059 --> 00:51:14.960
This is where some self -regulation tangible

00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:18.400
skills come in. Temperature changes, scent changes,

00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:21.000
things like that. That reintegrates your brain.

00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:24.119
Now everything is communicating appropriately.

00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:27.739
When all the parts of your brain are communicating,

00:51:28.019 --> 00:51:29.840
then we can move you through the traumatic experience.

00:51:30.340 --> 00:51:32.480
That experience moves from your emotional regulation

00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:35.239
center to your hippocampus and is actually stored

00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:37.219
in your long -term memory where your critical

00:51:37.219 --> 00:51:39.860
thinking and logic can access it, right? So that's

00:51:39.860 --> 00:51:41.699
what it is. We're just integrating all of those

00:51:41.699 --> 00:51:44.639
things. So ETT has that biofeedback element,

00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:48.059
which means we know when you are in fight or

00:51:48.059 --> 00:51:49.840
flight, when you are in your trauma therapy session.

00:51:50.019 --> 00:51:54.340
So we can pause, we can ground, we can reintegrate

00:51:54.340 --> 00:51:56.880
the brain. And then we just jump back in and

00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:59.539
keep going. With other trauma therapies, your

00:51:59.539 --> 00:52:02.079
provider is guessing. And we are very good at

00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:04.239
our jobs, but we cannot read your mind. It's

00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:07.420
just not possible. Everyone dissociates. And

00:52:07.420 --> 00:52:10.019
people are really good at hiding it, not intentionally,

00:52:10.219 --> 00:52:12.760
but it's a skill that you've developed over time.

00:52:13.059 --> 00:52:17.420
And so although you might appear to be calm and

00:52:17.420 --> 00:52:19.840
regulated, your brain is really checked out.

00:52:20.099 --> 00:52:22.440
And so we need that information or as much of

00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:24.519
it as we can get. because that's going to speed

00:52:24.519 --> 00:52:26.719
along your healing if we can ground you, integrate

00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:30.659
you, and then continue to process them. What

00:52:30.659 --> 00:52:33.320
are your thoughts on biofeedback where they do

00:52:33.320 --> 00:52:37.199
the little things up on the brain? Yeah, biofeedback

00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:40.820
is great. Yeah, very cool. Every therapy, like

00:52:40.820 --> 00:52:43.639
I said, every trauma therapy is going to be effective.

00:52:44.539 --> 00:52:47.119
It's just a matter of how quickly you want to

00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:50.150
get there. And so biofeedback is... fantastic

00:52:50.150 --> 00:52:53.789
and can be very, very helpful. I think ETT really

00:52:53.789 --> 00:52:57.190
just takes a lot of these trauma therapies, combines

00:52:57.190 --> 00:53:01.429
the best parts of all of them into one. Would

00:53:01.429 --> 00:53:04.610
you say that this is good both for the betrayal

00:53:04.610 --> 00:53:08.250
person as well as the addict or anyone who's

00:53:08.250 --> 00:53:12.369
gone through any type of adverse childhood experience?

00:53:13.829 --> 00:53:17.900
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And we don't just

00:53:17.900 --> 00:53:21.300
do ETT in these intensive programs. We use it

00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:23.579
just on an outpatient therapy basis as well.

00:53:23.619 --> 00:53:26.599
So with our sex addiction clients, with any kind

00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:29.780
of trauma client, it can be really used for most

00:53:29.780 --> 00:53:32.800
mental health concerns. There is actually a specific

00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:36.960
addictions protocol with ETT. I believe it was

00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:39.139
just last year they did the first case study

00:53:39.139 --> 00:53:41.519
on sex addiction and it was incredibly effective.

00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:47.099
Wow. Very, very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Tell

00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:49.280
us, give us the nuts and bolts, if you would,

00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:51.679
about this intensive, but I'm also curious, do

00:53:51.679 --> 00:53:54.539
you treat men? Do you have an intensive for men

00:53:54.539 --> 00:53:57.579
as well as for women? And also you're in the

00:53:57.579 --> 00:54:00.400
state of Washington. Are you able to see people

00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:04.300
outside of the state in some capacity? Yeah.

00:54:04.579 --> 00:54:08.000
So we are in the state of Washington. All of

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:09.920
our providers are licensed in Washington. We

00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:12.179
also have providers licensed in Colorado and

00:54:12.179 --> 00:54:15.630
Texas. So we can serve any clients in those three

00:54:15.630 --> 00:54:18.710
states. And if you want to participate in our

00:54:18.710 --> 00:54:21.250
intensive program, you can fly here from any

00:54:21.250 --> 00:54:23.690
state to participate in that program. So the

00:54:23.690 --> 00:54:25.690
way that the licensing laws work is as long as

00:54:25.690 --> 00:54:28.309
you're physically in our state, we can provide

00:54:28.309 --> 00:54:32.010
you services. And so although we are only licensed

00:54:32.010 --> 00:54:34.369
to practice in three states, we do have clients

00:54:34.369 --> 00:54:36.409
who fly in from other states that we are not

00:54:36.409 --> 00:54:40.579
licensed in to get our services. Um, we are really,

00:54:40.619 --> 00:54:43.420
really trying to get a men's betrayal intensive

00:54:43.420 --> 00:54:46.239
off the ground. There are not a lot of resources

00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:48.559
for betrayed men. I'm sure you all know that.

00:54:48.619 --> 00:54:51.559
There are not. Cricket noises out there for the

00:54:51.559 --> 00:54:56.159
guys. Crickets. But I will tell you, we have

00:54:56.159 --> 00:54:57.480
been trying to get this program off the ground

00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:59.280
for a year and we cannot get enough interest

00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:02.380
in it. They're brave enough to talk about that

00:55:02.380 --> 00:55:05.630
yet. Just like we don't talk about sex addiction

00:55:05.630 --> 00:55:07.769
for the women as much, and that's starting to

00:55:07.769 --> 00:55:11.150
come along, right? Yeah, the betrayal piece for

00:55:11.150 --> 00:55:15.929
the men. Yeah, so we've been trying. We have

00:55:15.929 --> 00:55:19.210
a wait list on our website that men can sign

00:55:19.210 --> 00:55:21.769
up for. They sign up, we call them immediately,

00:55:21.909 --> 00:55:24.949
and they don't answer. We give them a few months,

00:55:25.070 --> 00:55:26.929
and we send an email, you know, just checking

00:55:26.929 --> 00:55:29.869
in, we're still here. So we are working on trying

00:55:29.869 --> 00:55:33.630
to... get a men's betrayal program off the ground.

00:55:33.769 --> 00:55:36.210
We do treat sex addiction. We do not currently

00:55:36.210 --> 00:55:38.789
have a sex addiction intensive, but it is something

00:55:38.789 --> 00:55:41.710
that we've been thinking about a lot and actually

00:55:41.710 --> 00:55:45.170
thinking about integrating the ETT addictions

00:55:45.170 --> 00:55:49.530
protocol to do an intensive program for sex addiction.

00:55:49.690 --> 00:55:53.210
It is not something that is happening right now,

00:55:53.289 --> 00:55:56.050
but we really hope in the next year or so we

00:55:56.050 --> 00:55:57.809
will have a men's program as well. Sounds like

00:55:57.809 --> 00:56:00.940
a great growth goal. Okay, so if our listeners

00:56:00.940 --> 00:56:03.800
wanted to participate in your intensive, how

00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:05.980
would they get a hold of you? How would they

00:56:05.980 --> 00:56:08.719
sign up for this? What's the cost involved and

00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:10.840
the time involved? So probably best way to sign

00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:14.619
up is to go to our website. It's www .thebtrc

00:56:14.619 --> 00:56:17.159
.com. We have all of the intensive information

00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:19.619
on the website and you just fill out our contact

00:56:19.619 --> 00:56:22.039
form saying that you're interested in participating.

00:56:22.300 --> 00:56:24.699
And then next steps are to set up a consultation

00:56:24.699 --> 00:56:26.679
to make sure that you're a good fit for the program

00:56:26.679 --> 00:56:28.980
and to make sure that we can collaborate. on

00:56:28.980 --> 00:56:31.639
your care and, and get you all taken care of.

00:56:31.900 --> 00:56:35.320
The program cost is $3 ,500 for three and a half

00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:37.579
days. It's actually less than I thought you were

00:56:37.579 --> 00:56:39.599
going to say. Yeah. And it is like, it's an investment

00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:42.059
and we really, really try to make these programs

00:56:42.059 --> 00:56:45.599
approachable because they are so important. So

00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:48.579
I just did the math. That's about, that's almost

00:56:48.579 --> 00:56:53.199
18 visits with a therapist. Knock that out in

00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:55.369
three days. All handled in three and a half days.

00:56:55.530 --> 00:56:58.030
Plus you get to stay in a hotel and there's Starbucks

00:56:58.030 --> 00:57:00.150
and croissants and you're going to, you're going

00:57:00.150 --> 00:57:01.889
to make some new girlfriends. Jen, I think I

00:57:01.889 --> 00:57:06.030
want to go. Go. Let's go. We could, we could,

00:57:06.070 --> 00:57:08.289
oh, we might be trouble though. Yeah, we are

00:57:08.289 --> 00:57:11.380
trouble. Let's go. Okay. We welcome it. Okay.

00:57:11.739 --> 00:57:14.059
Elizabeth, I'm excited and I'm encouraged that

00:57:14.059 --> 00:57:15.380
that was not, I thought you were going to say

00:57:15.380 --> 00:57:18.000
like $9 ,000 or something. Plus you're in beautiful

00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:20.699
Seattle and you can go see Pike's Place Market

00:57:20.699 --> 00:57:24.519
and visit the ocean and do all that. We encourage

00:57:24.519 --> 00:57:27.340
people to stay extra. Stay a couple extra days.

00:57:28.940 --> 00:57:31.800
Spend the weekend in the hotel. We have fabulous

00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:34.920
hotels over here with wonderful spas. That's

00:57:34.920 --> 00:57:36.969
where you can get your retreat. your retreat

00:57:36.969 --> 00:57:39.010
-like experience, right? Come to your therapy

00:57:39.010 --> 00:57:40.929
intensive and then take a couple days, go to

00:57:40.929 --> 00:57:42.670
the beach, go to the ocean, get a massage. Do

00:57:42.670 --> 00:57:44.670
some self -care. Or you head home. Yep, exactly.

00:57:44.989 --> 00:57:48.150
Yeah. I've been so curious about intensives and

00:57:48.150 --> 00:57:50.590
it's just been a pleasure to have you on educating

00:57:50.590 --> 00:57:53.269
all of us about what this entails. In closing,

00:57:53.489 --> 00:57:54.989
do you have a word of encouragement you'd like

00:57:54.989 --> 00:57:56.769
to share with our listeners to kind of wrap things

00:57:56.769 --> 00:58:00.369
up? Oh, absolutely. I mean, just that the way

00:58:00.369 --> 00:58:02.349
you feel now is not how you will feel forever,

00:58:02.510 --> 00:58:05.389
really. I mean... People are resilient. Your

00:58:05.389 --> 00:58:07.510
brain is resilient. Human brain is really amazing.

00:58:07.690 --> 00:58:13.809
It truly, truly is. And I would really highly

00:58:13.809 --> 00:58:16.989
encourage anyone who is feeling that stuckness,

00:58:16.989 --> 00:58:19.030
feeling that, you know, my brain is telling me

00:58:19.030 --> 00:58:20.590
one thing, but my emotions are telling me something

00:58:20.590 --> 00:58:23.849
different. Seek out someone, a clinician who

00:58:23.849 --> 00:58:26.530
is certified in some sort of trauma therapy modality.

00:58:26.630 --> 00:58:28.690
It will make all of the difference. Thank you

00:58:28.690 --> 00:58:32.000
for that. Thank you so much. It's been such a

00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:34.900
joy to meet you and to hear about this. I wish

00:58:34.900 --> 00:58:38.159
I had heard about this a long, long time ago.

00:58:38.380 --> 00:58:40.619
And for those of you that are contemplating,

00:58:40.619 --> 00:58:44.460
let this be your sign if you're into signs. Let

00:58:44.460 --> 00:58:49.420
this be. Here's your sign, yeah. At least check

00:58:49.420 --> 00:58:54.320
it out. Check it out. See if this is a good direction

00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:56.980
for you to go because as someone who's been in

00:58:56.980 --> 00:59:00.239
this healing process, honestly, really for over

00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:05.699
18 years now, I can testify that you will come

00:59:05.699 --> 00:59:07.800
to these points where the brain doesn't match

00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:10.739
up or where the emotions don't match up with

00:59:10.739 --> 00:59:14.679
the thought process. And the sooner you can work

00:59:14.679 --> 00:59:17.780
towards connecting those two, the faster you

00:59:17.780 --> 00:59:20.019
all, you ask me all the time, folks, you ask

00:59:20.019 --> 00:59:21.940
me, how can I fast forward? This is the way.

00:59:22.329 --> 00:59:25.469
This is the way to do it. Yes. Good point. So

00:59:25.469 --> 00:59:27.269
as someone who's been doing this a long time,

00:59:27.349 --> 00:59:31.590
please hear my heart. Do yourself a favor. Consider

00:59:31.590 --> 00:59:40.349
the impact of what $3 ,500 could do in the long

00:59:40.349 --> 00:59:44.030
term. It is a short -term financial investment

00:59:44.030 --> 00:59:48.070
for a long -term gain for your emotions, for

00:59:48.070 --> 00:59:50.570
your body. And let's be honest, for those of

00:59:50.570 --> 00:59:53.719
us that... are raising children or have raised

00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:57.260
children, what you have to give to your children

00:59:57.260 --> 01:00:02.599
after you've worked through some of the betrayal

01:00:02.599 --> 01:00:05.320
processing. And when you come on the other side

01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:10.619
to, you know, the folks help me out here. What's

01:00:10.619 --> 01:00:14.079
the word? Post -betrayal. Thank you. That's the

01:00:14.079 --> 01:00:17.539
word. Once you get there, the gift that you have

01:00:17.539 --> 01:00:20.519
to offer your children, nobody can put a price

01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:23.500
on that. The impact you're having on what is

01:00:23.500 --> 01:00:27.960
epigenetics? It takes one person to stand up

01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:30.380
and change the narrative and let the health flow

01:00:30.380 --> 01:00:34.239
downward to our descendants, right? Yeah. You

01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:36.280
know, we're constantly talking to our clients

01:00:36.280 --> 01:00:39.539
about how this is not a life sentence. This is

01:00:39.539 --> 01:00:43.119
a chapter. And what I'm loving about this whole

01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:45.840
conversation is that an intensive like this can

01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:47.800
turn it into, instead of a chapter, can turn

01:00:47.800 --> 01:00:51.320
it into a pamphlet. It can. And let's be honest,

01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:53.119
some of us feel like we're reading the same chapter

01:00:53.119 --> 01:00:57.719
over and over and over again. Let's move on to

01:00:57.719 --> 01:01:00.219
the next one. Elizabeth, thank you. That was

01:01:00.219 --> 01:01:03.099
great encouragement, too. So excited to meet

01:01:03.099 --> 01:01:05.300
you and have you in our wheelhouse. And we look

01:01:05.300 --> 01:01:08.320
forward to getting to know you better. And maybe

01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:10.860
we'll just have to have a trip up to Bellingham

01:01:10.860 --> 01:01:15.250
or not Bellingham, Bellevue. And come check out

01:01:15.250 --> 01:01:17.369
your clinic and see the good work that you and

01:01:17.369 --> 01:01:18.949
your partners are doing. So thank you. Yeah,

01:01:18.969 --> 01:01:23.469
thank you. Absolutely. All right, listeners,

01:01:23.550 --> 01:01:25.730
on that note, thank you for joining us on this

01:01:25.730 --> 01:01:28.250
episode of the Betrayal Recovery Transformation

01:01:28.250 --> 01:01:30.949
Podcast. We really hope you found today's discussion

01:01:30.949 --> 01:01:34.710
insightful and empowering. Boy, I sure did. If

01:01:34.710 --> 01:01:37.670
you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate,

01:01:37.750 --> 01:01:40.670
and leave a review for us. This changes the algorithm

01:01:40.670 --> 01:01:43.650
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01:01:43.650 --> 01:01:46.230
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01:01:46.949 --> 01:01:50.190
So until next time, everyone, be kind to yourself

01:01:50.190 --> 01:01:52.880
and keep pursuing your own healing. We'll see

01:01:52.880 --> 01:01:53.260
you soon.