What is up bros, I'm Jonathan.
And I'm Caleb.
And we are.
Oh sorry.
Yes, I'm sorry.
I should.
So, sorry.
As you can see, I'm bad when I lead episodes.
Caleb usually is a great leader in episodes.
I'm not great.
So we are joined by our special guest, author Douglas A. Burton.
And very exciting because he's going to help us break down one of the honestly best sequels
I've seen in a horror thriller genre on this episode.
I say it's very exciting.
I think if you guys have listened to this show for a while, you already know who me
and Caleb are.
You know that we're two dudes that are striving to make sure that movies get the grades that
they deserve.
And trying not to be as biased.
And Caleb, I tried to abbreviate what we usually say and I just butchered it and I'm very sorry.
You're leading it dude, I don't care.
Well, I do like your system because like you said, instead of just being like, I love it,
I hate it.
You break it down and you see where maybe a movie might falter, even if you love it
and where it really shines.
So you guys have a good system.
Thank you.
But Douglas, is there anything you want to let people know about you?
Get to know you before we break?
Yeah, I'm one of the bros.
There's millions of us out there.
And I watched all these movies.
I grew up in the 80s mainly and I watched a lot of the movies from the 80s.
And then also some of the late 70s movies.
I think last week you guys covered Alien, which was 1979, all the way through.
So I'm a huge movie buff.
I like comic books, but movies and I think books have been my real love.
And I used that passion to write my own stories.
And I had a debut historical fiction novel that took place in the Byzantine Empire.
And while writing that, I developed an alternative approach to story structure that no one had
yet.
So I spent the last four years just hammering this thing out.
It's really an alternative to the hero's journey.
It stems from a love of film.
And I studied several books, movies, comic books and TV shows that were heroine centric.
And Aliens is one of those movies, as was Alien.
I looked at stories that had elite heroine and I just tried to see if there was any patterns
in there that maybe were not as obvious.
And what I ended up coming up with was something that it's an alternative to the hero's journey.
First, for writers, if the hero's journey wasn't working with the story you were writing,
take a look at the heroine's labyrinth, is what I call it, because it's an alternative
and it might work better for your story.
So are either of you guys writers by any chance?
Not even a little bit.
English classes were once that I was like, I was kind of good at.
I would get like, I would write papers or stories and stuff for like my teachers.
And there was one that we had to write a whole story based off something that happened in
real life and had to be like certain lengths long or whatever.
I wrote this paper like the day it was due and completely like made it up.
And she came to me after she had like graded it because she was concerned about what I
wrote.
She's just like, this is like some really intense stuff for someone your age to have
gone through.
And I'm like, sure.
Like, yeah, yeah, really, really sticking with me.
Yeah, to this day, I still do not remember what I wrote.
I'm pretty sure I know what teacher he's talking about.
Is it Mrs. Walker?
It is absolutely Miss Walker.
You know what?
Somewhere in the world today, Mrs. Walker is telling the story.
I had one of my students tell me about this thing that happened, which was insane.
By the end of class, I feel like I'd given her PTSD because she, my brother, my younger
brother had her class a couple of years after I had graduated.
And she saw the matching last name, looked up at him and he said, just gave him the dirtiest
look.
And then then she realized he's he's nothing like me.
And then she was fine.
Oh, man.
Yeah, that's wild.
I'll be honest.
I hated English when I was in school as well.
It's like math.
It's like grammar and punctuation and all those rules.
It was like math and I hated it.
But once I realized I needed it, I changed my attitude.
I realized it's really not math.
It's clarity.
And if you learn the rules, then your language becomes really clear.
And it really helps you as a writer.
So I had to learn by necessity, not because I wanted to.
It's funny how we find a need for that as we get older.
Yeah.
As a kid, they're like, this is a dangling participle.
I'm like, dude, I don't care.
I don't care what you call this.
I don't want to learn it.
Okay.
Well, gentlemen, what do you say we just jump right in to what we got going on this episode?
Let's do it.
Hey, this is Mikey T. And the Grant.
And William.
And we are the Failing Hollywood Podcast.
Yeah, we're a show that is real film crew with real cast that talks about real set stuff.
Like what it's like to work 70 hours in one week, over nights only.
And what it's like to bring coffee to actors.
And what it's like to sit in a bathtub with a toaster nearby and be like, maybe I'll just
end it all.
What it's like to make love on a fake New York set when you're sitting in L.A. but wishing
you were in Chicago.
Nice.
That that ad that wow.
That's awesome.
That's my favorite one, though, from Failing Hollywood.
Love you guys.
Well, getting right into this breakdown.
This Caleb, is there anything else you want to add before we jump in?
OK, we're going to go.
Awesome.
Well, since I feel you're the best at this, Caleb, do you want to let people know how
we break down movies on this podcast?
I would love to.
If you are new to our breakdown system, we have split movies into eight different categories
that we individually score to come to a final Albrose letter grade.
The eight categories that we are going to be scoring our story, writing, acting, character
development, effects, music, costumes.
And then we're going to give it our own personal score at the very end.
All of those numbers get magically added up and spit through our algorithm and give us
a letter grade to compare this movie to others of a similar grade.
So first off, starting off a story, if you have not seen Aliens, you have had so much
time to do so.
So if it gets spoiled for you, sucks to suck.
But Rose is about to spoil the entire movie for you in our favorite segment that we like
to call Reading with Rose.
Oh, it's not my favorite segment.
So I want to point that out right now.
But we will be posting that spoiler warning now.
So if you listen beyond this point, anything's spoiled for you.
Sorry.
Yeah, five.
Yeah, five seconds to reach minimum safe distance.
Yep.
You've also had almost 40 years.
So it's just.
There was some wiggle room in there, but we've run out of that.
All right.
Ellen Ripley has been in stasis for 57 years aboard an escape shuttle after destroying
her ship, the Nostromo, to escape an alien creature that slaughtered the rest of the
crew.
She is rescued and debriefed by her employers at the Wayland, Utah, Utah, Neutani, OK,
corporation who are skeptical about her claim of alien eggs in a derelict ship on the Exxon
Moon LV 426 since it is now the site of a terraforming colony.
After contact is lost with the colony, Wayland, Utah representative Carter Burke and Colonial
Marine Lieutenant Gorman asked Ripley to accompany them to investigate.
Those are some big names, geez.
Yeah, they don't play with the frickin name.
Still traumatized by her alien encounter, she agrees on the condition that they exterminate
the creatures Ripley is entered.
I don't know why I had to comprehend the sentence I just read.
Ripley is introduced to the Colonial Marines on the spaceship Sulak Sulak.
Sorry, Sulak.
So I'm just going OK, OK, awesome.
But it's distrustful of their Android Bishop because the Android aboard the Nostromo betrayed
its crew to protect the alien on company orders.
A drop ship delivers the expedition to the surface of LV 426 where they find the battle
ravaged colony and two live alien facehuggers in containment tanks.
And no bodies are colonists except for a traumatized young girl named Newt.
The team locates the colonists beneath the fusion powered atmosphere processing station
and heads to their location, descending into corridors covered in alien secretions.
At the station center, the Marines find opened eggs and dead facehuggers alongside alongside
the cocooned colonists now serving as incubators for the creatures offspring.
The Marine, yeah, that just sounds like a horrible way to oh, God, I can't imagine that.
What do you mean sounds like?
Did you watch the movie?
OK, yeah, OK.
Absolutely.
Sounds like looks like it's all the above.
The Marines kill an infant alien after it burst from a colonist's chest, rousing several
adult aliens who ambush the Marines and kill or capture many of them.
When the inexperienced Gorman panics, Ripley assumes command takes control.
Sorry.
Wow.
Takes.
Hmm.
When you're experiencing reading with Rose, that's why we spell it with two E's.
Ripley assumes command.
When the inexperienced Gorman panics, Ripley assumes command takes control of their armored
personal carrier and rams the nest to rescue Corporal Dwayne Hicks and privates Hudson
and Vasquez.
Hicks orders the drop ship to recover the survivors, but a stowaway alien kills the
pilots and it crashes into the station.
Out of ammunition and resources, the survivors barricade themselves inside the colony.
Ripley discovers that Burke ordered the colonists to investigate the derelict spaceship containing
the alien eggs and tending to profit by recovering them for biological weapon research.
Before she can expose them, Bishop informs the group that the drop ship crash damaged
the power plant cooling system and the plant will soon overheat and explode, destroying
the colony.
We volunteers to travel to the colony transmitter and remotely pilot the Suluoco.
Thank you.
Sulacos remaining drop ship to the surface.
After falling asleep in the medical laboratory, Ripley and Newt awaken to find themselves
trapped with the two released facehuggers.
Wow.
After falling asleep in the medical laboratory, Ripley and Newt awaken to find themselves
trapped with the two released facehuggers.
Ripley triggers a fire alarm to alert the Marines who rescue them and kill the creatures.
She accuses Burke of releasing the facehuggers to implant her and Newt with alien embryos
allowing him to smuggle them through Earth's quarantine.
The power is suddenly cut and aliens attack through the ceiling.
In the ensuing fire fight, the aliens kill Burke, subdue Hudson and injure Hicks.
The cornered Gorman and Vascoe sacrifice themselves to avoid capture and Newt is separated from
Ripley and taken by the creatures.
Ripley brings Hicks to Bishop in the second drop ship, but she refuses to abandon Newt
and arms herself before descending into the processing station hive alone to rescue her.
In their escape, they encounter the alien queen surrounded by dozens of eggs and when
one begins to open, Ripley uses her weapon to destroy them all and the queen's ovipositor
pursued by the engraving queen Ripley and Newt join Bishop and Hicks on the drop ship
and escape moments before the station explodes, consuming the colony in a nuclear blast.
Inside the Suloco, the group is ambushed by the queen who stowed away in the drop ship's
landing gear.
The queen tears Bishop in half and advances on Newt, but Ripley fights the creature with
an exosuit cargo loader and expels it through an airlock into space while the damaged Bishop
keeps Newt safe.
Ripley, Newt, Hicks and Bishop enter hypersleep for their return trip to Earth.
Beautiful.
That was a beautiful summary.
I tried.
Thank you.
I, I do have a note.
I don't understand why Bishop had to be put in the hypersleep chamber if he's an artificial
human.
Maybe he, there's a recharge factor.
I guess movie got a movie.
I guess what else are you going to do with him?
You can't like walk around or anything on the ship.
He's probably like, look, just put me out, put me on one of those pods, knock me out.
I'm happy.
Oh man.
Dude, Bishop was on my suspicious list for a good portion of this movie.
Yeah.
They really set you up to be a little suss on him because of the first movie with Ash.
Yeah.
And like when, when Ripley was like kind of freaking out about, about Bishop being an
artificial life form, rightfully so.
Yeah.
And he's just like, Oh, what model was he?
I'm like, why does, I don't give a shit what model he was.
Yeah.
He's like the older models were twitchy.
Not, not me.
Yeah.
Like when he said that, I was like, what the hell are you talking about?
Twitchy.
Yeah.
I tried to kill them.
Yeah.
Like try completely defective.
Yeah.
100%.
I enjoyed the bait and Swift now again.
Oh, I don't know if I said this.
I think I told you guys before we started, but I never saw, I saw this movie first before
alien.
So some of the context was lost on me because it was the first film I saw.
I had not seen, you know, I didn't know about Ash.
I didn't know about androids or none of that.
So it is fun to go back.
And as I watch now, you realize what the filmmakers are doing and trying to like misdirect you
and like, keep an eye on Bishop.
He seems pretty fascinated by these creatures again, you know?
And of course he's not the one you got to worry about.
Not in this one though.
It was a little weasel Burke.
Yeah.
I would have shoved him.
I'm so glad he got eaten by the xenomorph.
Oh yeah.
I'm so glad.
I think that's one of the best things about these types of movies.
Like the asshole always gets what he deserves.
Yeah.
You're in like one of the most hostile environments possible and you're the a hole.
Guess what's going to happen to you?
Something horrible.
True that.
Yeah, it was so good.
This movie did really good.
I feel like you could have watched this one without the context of the first and been
pretty fine.
Even with the thing with Bishop, if I didn't have the context for Ash and they explained
it pretty well.
They're just being like, oh Ripley's last ship had an artificial human on it and he
malfunctioned or whatever.
It's kind of like the only context I really needed if I were going into this blind.
Yeah, that's true.
That's a great point.
I was thinking in particular of the scene where he's like studying.
They didn't tell you that he thought it was a perfect organism in the first film.
So there was kind of this like worshipful, you know, android attitude.
So the scene where Bishop's like dissecting and he's like, it's magnificent.
That was the scene where you're supposed to be like, oh man, it's happening again.
Oh man, I would have loved if I was Ripley, I would have lost my mind a lot harder than
she did.
Especially if I saw that, be like, nope, we're stopping that immediately if not sooner.
Yeah, where's the off button on this guy?
Well and what's cool is, and we'll get into some of this once we get to like writing and
things, but what they did with Bishop and the android, you know, the arcs in this film
are pretty astounding.
And I'll talk a little bit more about that when we get to the writing segment.
But yeah, there's so many thrills in this movie.
This was one of the first rated R movies I saw.
I was 10 years old and I had talked my dad in, you know, this was back when you would
rent VHS tapes.
And I convinced him to let me watch and my sister who's younger than me, we somehow convinced
him to let us watch Aliens.
And I'll tell you, scared the living shit out of me.
I was so freaked out by this film.
I was like, oh my God, I couldn't sleep.
Just the images, there were so many horrible things that happened.
So many like terrible deaths, like the scene with Hudson where he gets, you know, he's
pulled into the ground and the chest burster comes out and that lady or when they walk
into the substation and there's all those people cocooned.
I was like, it was like pure nightmare fuel.
And it took a long time for me to get over the fear of this film.
And of course, the fast pace of it and the intensity and seeing guys who are like tough
and high testosterone come up short, like by a landslide, that's just the stuff a 10
year old doesn't want to see.
Oh, I believe it.
If this was my first rated R movie, like going off of my film history where my dad told me
that all movies are real, this would have melted my brain.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Holy crap.
I couldn't even imagine like what 10 year old me would have done seeing this.
Yeah.
I, any noise, you know, when you're a kid, especially you're real sensitive to it, but
any creak in the house, any noise, I was like, what is that?
Like, I don't, I don't like that.
You know, it didn't matter.
I was freaked out of my mind.
And then that's when I realized why they have rated R. I was like, oh man.
I really wasn't supposed to see that.
Oh man.
I'm glad my, I, I salute my dad for being like, all right, son, you want to see it?
You're on healthy, healthy doses of trauma is, is okay.
Right?
Healthy doses.
Yeah.
I, I've been the dad that I, I'll let her watch some of the stuff that I watch, even
though it's a little bit more on like the violent side.
Yeah.
But I've given her the context that all movies and all TV shows are fake.
Yes.
And so she'll like see something.
So I, it was, I was actually watching the, uh, the newest doctor strange and there's
a scene where this, uh, this tentacle monster with like a giant eye, like it's just an eyeball
with tentacles is like rampaging the city.
And Dr. Strange throws a fricking lamppost inside the eye and rips it out of its, of
its carcass.
And I thought she was like playing on her, on her tablet.
And then I like, I look over her just to make sure, cause I was, I was even like, Ooh, that's
a little gross.
I look over her and her eyes like could not have been bigger.
And she like looked over me and she's like, daddy, was that fake?
And I was like, yes, that was 100% fake.
And she's like, okay.
I felt so bad, but I'm like, yeah, I've had similar moments with my kids where, uh, and
so we use the term term, uh, movie magic, you know, like, like you could see the horror
on their face.
You're like, Oh, it's just movie magic.
And uh, like for whatever reason.
So what's weird with the new generation of kids is they see all sorts of things about
like, like they knew the whole story to squid game, but never saw a single episode because
YouTube has skits.
They have people making fun of it.
They have dubs.
They have, you know, recreations.
There's all sorts of other contexts.
So, um, for whatever reason, my son really liked it, you know, uh, Stephen King's it
and we dressed up like it for Halloween and, and then he wanted to watch it.
And uh, there's some pretty horrifying moments in that.
I'm like, Oh, it's just movie magic, son.
Don't worry.
So,
Oh man.
Are we talking the new it or like the OG?
The new, the new it is what we watched.
I think the OG might be, um, for that, for them, it might feel a little dated for their,
uh, viewing.
All right.
Yeah.
Not like, I mean, Pennywise never really scared.
I mean, yeah.
Pennywise never scared me, but I will admit like when he like crawls out of the fridge,
Oh yeah.
I'm seeing like that still gives me goosebumps.
I freaking love that scene.
Well, and they do this like glitching, like where he's moving funny and you could just
see like the kids are like, I don't know why, but that I don't like looking at that.
And it's like movie magic.
I don't know why my body's telling me to run
fights or I'm going to go with flight.
Speaking with that though, kudos to Bill Skarsgard who played Pennywise because every single
after every single take, he'd make sure that the kids were okay.
Like I hope you,
Oh really?
Yeah.
He would like go right back into bill and be like, Hey, are you okay?
Like I hope I didn't scare you.
Just that was honestly scare me more.
Are you guys okay with that?
My favorite is for the final battle of the first one when it's all the, you know, kids
versus Pennywise before one of the takes, he's going around and high-fiving all the
kids and he's just like, all right, who's ready to beat the shit out of me?
Oh man.
Yeah.
Getting into this story.
This fixed the issues I had with alien with it be like, so this one was, I want to say
the same amount of time or it was, it was slightly longer, slightly.
Yeah.
It was just a little bit longer.
But this didn't feel as long as alien did.
Well they also trimmed up the opening credits.
It was very brief.
I'm sure Caleb loved that.
I was paying attention.
I was just like, all right, your guys are like walking a real fine line here.
And then they, then it like completed.
I'm like, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.
Yeah.
They, they put a few names up there and then they moved on pretty quick.
And, and it's funny since, cause I rewatched it last night.
And after I had heard your analysis of alien, I was a little bit more sensitive.
Like I've seen these movies enough to where I some, maybe I might not catch a few things.
So I was like, how long are the opening crowds?
I was like, okay, Caleb should be okay with this.
Yeah, I absolutely was.
I was, I was hesitant.
I was just like, this is going to set the tone for me.
And now luckily they, they stayed there.
Welcome.
And then they moved on.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
But yeah, I mean, the rest of the movie though, what was paced so well, like even the moments
that I felt were a little slower in just like overall tone were still like pretty exciting.
Yeah.
There was some tension in a lot of those slower moment or quieter moments.
Yeah.
Like I think into when Ripley's like getting underneath the bed with Newt, like that was
such like one of those moments that it was just silent for a decent while then immediately
kicked on into overdrive once she's like, wait a minute.
Yeah.
The, the, the, like the alien itself and there's different forms of the, you know, there's
the, there's the facehugger, there's the chest burster, and then there's the xenomorph.
And then this movie introduces the alien queen.
So that's four different versions.
Like each one is kind of like totally horrific and totally different ways.
And they, because they knew that it feels like they could take a slow scene and be like,
but there's facehuggers nearby.
So like that just because of that, you're like, oh my God, I don't, I don't feel comfortable
in this, like going to sleep in this room.
You know?
Absolutely.
Yeah, dude.
True.
And what freaks me out more between like what freaked me out the most was the tiny little
chest popper out.
Yeah.
I don't even know what to call that.
The baby morph.
They call it the chest burster.
The chest burster.
Yeah.
The chest burster freaked me out in the first one.
The facehuggers got me this go round and I think it had to do with the fricking like
extra like mouth that was like popping out.
I was like, oh, can't do that.
Yeah man.
It's not cool, dude.
Like they actually designed it off the idea of forced insemination.
So it was supposed to be a creature that can assault male or female.
Didn't matter.
So the idea was that males are just as vulnerable.
And yeah, I mean, it's, it's horrific and it grabs you around the neck with it.
And the tail and then it grabs your face and it shoves that thing down there and you're
done.
You know?
Yeah.
I don't think that's something that was like super well portrayed in the first.
I didn't realize that they wrap like around the neck with the tail.
Oh, so like I might, I might have missed it or something, but like this go round when
I was just like, like, couldn't you just like kind of pop or like pry these things off,
pop them off?
Or like, is it like, once they get that thing in your mouth that you're trying to like screw
it, like what's the deal with?
And then it wrapped its tail around her neck and was like pulling itself.
I was like, oh no.
Yeah.
There is a scene in the first one.
Like, yeah, well, it totally there, there is a scene in the first movie where they tried
to move the finger and they show the tail tightening around the neck.
Like they would sit like that.
It would choke them.
Oh, yeah.
Well, dude, when, if you see a movie once, you're not going to, you know, there's no
way to catch every little thing.
But, but yeah, they, they, once they get a hold of you and this one, they did a good
job at like whips around her neck at one point and grabs her and she's trying to hold it
off and, you know, I don't know, I would never want to be in a room with one of those things
and, and it looks like the new movie coming out, Alien Romulus is really emphasizing these
facehuggers.
Did you get, you guys saw the trailer?
It sounds like,
Oh my gosh.
I, I saw that shit in a XD Cinemarks version of IMAX and oh my God.
Honestly, it looks good.
It really does.
Like after, like I kind of want to see that on the biggest screen possible, but at the
same time I don't because I feel like I'm not going to be able to keep down my popcorn.
Well, you said that you are kind of a horror guy.
Right?
Yeah.
So like, I'm weird, like sometimes like that kind of stuff, like, you know, like all like,
like I don't see myself like throwing up or anything like that, but like actually like
when set that a little bit, but like, you know, like put like Michael or Jason in front
of me and like have them like stab and slit 50 people a million way, like a million ways.
Oh, it doesn't faze me at all.
But but an alien is a little different, a little bit interesting.
I think it's probably just cause I'm like so used to slashers.
Like that's what I, cause the first slasher I watched, it was either Halloween or child's
play and that was when I was like six or seven.
Yeah, my, my, my, my, my parents weren't that great at keeping that stuff away from me and
my sister.
But, but so like, you know, for how long I've been exposed to that kind of, that kind of,
those kind of movies, like that stuff doesn't faze me whatsoever anymore.
But like this, this kind of stuff, alien, this is new territory for me.
It's like, maybe it's like, I watch more, like I'll get more used to it, but just like,
there were moments throughout of this, like when the xenomorph would like pop in, I'm
like, oh shit.
Yeah.
You know what it is?
It's the difference between with like Michael and all those other classic horrors, something
outside goes inside with alien, something inside comes outside.
Yeah, man.
And, and people are like, kill me, kill me.
Like they would rather die than have this thing pop out.
Yeah, I think it's that.
Cause that dude, like that scene in the new Romulus trailer where she holds the light
to her back and you see the thing like moving around like my whole body, like just, you
know what scene got me in the trailer?
Uh, and it's not that big of a deal, but maybe it's just psychological.
It looks like they're in some sort of like, um, science lab with like face hugger incubators
and one like slides out and splashes down and there's someone with their back and you
could see it swimming up right behind the head.
I'm like, Oh dude, you're already at man.
Like you're not going to get out of that.
You're done.
It's like, I know it's like being in a swamp with a crocodile, like you're, you're, you
have no chance, you know, whatever.
You are done.
You could as well try to like, try your best to snap your own neck.
Oh man.
But, uh, but yeah.
Oh, and what's funny is, uh, I heard you guys were talking about some of the practical effects,
um, from alien and, um, the face hugger and how it moved, they got better in this one
in aliens when that thing was coming after Ripley in that one scene and jumps at her.
It's so, it's still creepy.
Amazing.
Yeah.
That will be accurately depicted or it's going to get some, some fricking props and, and
effects.
Oh my gosh.
Um, but yeah, like, so just, I mean, just story wise, I really liked that they kind
of kept with the same.
I don't even know.
Like how does it like properly describe this?
Like what it's kind of like what they did Ripley.
Like where, don't like, she was the only one that was like, we need to follow protocol
on this.
And she was the one kind of getting screwed.
And then it was the same deal with this.
She's just like, Nope, we need to fricking nuke this planet.
Like, like we need to be getting rid of this.
They're like, Oh no, there are colonizers there, which this has actually changed my
stance on being a colonizer now.
You guys remember my rant from the last episode?
Um, but yeah, it's like same deal where she's like, no, like these things, like they need
to be destroyed.
And they're just like, you're talking about genocide.
No, like she's like, yeah, like exactly what I'm talking about.
And like pull a punch about it or like try to justify it.
She's like, no, they're like annihilated.
Yeah.
And her, her freak out at the fricking boss who was just like, Oh, well you blew up some
like super expensive equipment.
I'm like, screw your equipment, bro.
Yeah, that was bullshit.
Yeah.
And so I was kind of like, I was feeling like what she was going through really well and
just like just the bullshit, her just being like so over it.
And then when she eventually like takes over like command of the Marines and everything,
like after the lieutenant or whoever just can't fricking cut it, which dude, when he
nothing is more accurate than the Marines putting someone that doesn't have any experience
on something that is somewhat important.
How many drops is this?
Like 38.
But like how many combat drops?
He's like, uh, two, including this one.
Dude, I make, they fricking got me with that.
Cause when he was like 38, I'm like, okay, maybe he just gets a little like seasick.
Yeah.
Like when they're breaking in and he's just this, and then he hit me with simulated.
I'm like, God damn it.
Yeah.
Cool.
Yeah.
And he, um, he lives up to the moniker.
You know, he, he doesn't perform well as a lieutenant.
He's not decisive.
Uh, he freezes up, uh, under pressure and, um, you know, he, he was getting mad at Ripley
for taking over like, or basically trying to call the shots.
And he's like, what are you doing?
I'm like, what the hell are you doing, bro?
Yeah.
And what's interesting is, uh, that was, that was the moment that Ripley really emerged.
That was her first moment where, and you know, and these are colonial Marines.
They're not like, uh, accountants coming out there and be like, Hmm, let's see.
Uh, these are Marines, these are tough guys and, uh, they're, they're fighting and they're
in, they're in the fight of their life.
And the lieutenant is indecisive and she takes action and, and, uh, it's so, she's so convincing.
And uh, I loved it.
You're right.
The guy, the guy gets mad cause he's, he's that scared to go in there and she is absolutely
not.
She's like, we have to save them now or they're all dead.
Yeah.
I think that's one of the things that like really highlighted this as a character thing,
Caleb, fricking slow down.
Um, yeah, I'll, I'll address that in, in character development.
Cause I loved her, her growth in this.
Um, but yeah, story beat wise, I, this was really, really well put together.
It was action packed like all throughout, like every, everything in the story, like
made sense.
Reactions made sense.
Cause like all these like bad asses, they come across something that they don't know
how to deal with.
And then they're like, they're thinking it's some like fairy tale, like they go in like
acting like it's just, it's like, Oh yeah.
Aliens.
They're acting like it's no big deal, but it's like the biggest of deals.
And then they like realize this and it's just, they get all the types of messed up.
Like it's, it's crazy.
Like I'm very overconfident, super well structured.
And like, I loved like the, the tension they built when Ripley came face to face with the,
the alien queen.
Oh yeah.
That was fantastic.
Yeah.
And like, she was like, I'll do it.
Like I'll kill these eggs.
And that the alien queen like sent her guards away and then she's like letting her back
up.
I'm like, okay.
Like, like she has attachments to these, do these creatures like, which is kind of interesting
to see.
Cause like, I feel like other instances where there's like a queen and it's like in charge
of every, she doesn't really care about all the little grunts.
Oh yeah.
That's a good point.
But this was nice that she actually seemed to care.
And then, yeah.
And then Ripley goes and does her dirty.
And I'm like,
Yeah, I was like, I was like, honestly, that's more on that, that eggs timing than the alien
queen.
And I wasn't the queen's fault.
That's right.
Yeah.
And then it's like, I understand where Ripley was coming from.
And I also understood where the alien queen was coming from.
Yeah.
She freaking ripped herself off her little perch and just like ready to go ham.
I'm like, hell yeah.
Oh yeah.
This is just, this is the peak woman on woman fight.
Totally.
Yeah.
100%.
Oh, so good.
Oh, and when she came out in that fricking, what, what do you call those?
The loader.
The loaders.
Yeah.
I was like fricking a.
Yeah.
And they set the scene up earlier in the movie, you know?
So good.
So freaking good.
I loved her.
She got like a couple pretty bad ass, like suit up scenes, like the first one where she's
like taping the, like the weapons together and then she's in the elevator and she, like
you just see her like getting herself hyped up and then she's like taking off her jacket,
like loading, like up all the guns, like throwing stuff across her chest.
I'm like, fricking a let's get it.
Totally.
And there's still some part of you that's like, what is she thinking?
Like you're going to take on the hive.
Like I remember watching that being like, I don't know how this is going to work.
You know, I just didn't know how she was going to handle herself in there.
And so yeah, it's a hell of a gear up scene.
Yeah.
I didn't know how she was going to handle it either, but I was there for the ride.
Hell yeah.
I think what's cool about like watching these or having only watched these for the first
time is I don't know anything outside of, like I knew about the loader, like kind of,
like I knew what the loaders looked like.
Oh yeah.
And I knew that Ripley like used one.
I didn't know which movie she used one in.
Like I think we were getting down to like the end where she was like getting ready to
escape on the ship and like they like went back up to their ship and everything.
I was like, okay, maybe the loaders come in like in a different movie.
And then she like comes popping out and I'm like, oh hell yeah.
So like having seen that, I now know absolutely nothing of what's coming next.
Because so I didn't realize that she's in the third one.
Yes.
So yeah, so this was the one where I was like, oh, is she going to like, the stakes were
up here because I'm like, there's still a chance that she dies.
Because I didn't like, at least to me, because I'm like, I don't, like I said, don't have
this future context of anything else.
And I don't like, I know all I know from her, like IMDB is the first two.
And I don't like, I don't remember having seen anything else from the other alien movies.
So for me, the stakes were like crazy high.
I'm like, they could freaking kill her off and there's not a damn thing we could do about
it.
Well, when this movie came out, no one knew if there was going to be a sequel.
So you know, in fact, when I remember the first time I saw it, when I was a kid, there's
that scene where the airlock is open and the queen is holding onto her foot and she's like
arm locking that ladder rung and then her shoe comes off.
My childhood mind processed that initially as her arm coming out of her socket.
And I remember I was like, oh, she didn't make it.
And then I was like, oh, she's fine.
Shit, she's climbing up that thing and she's like fighting zero gravity.
And I was like, holy shit, this chick's crazy.
But yeah, when I was a kid, I didn't think she made it.
I thought she had actually died for a good second or two.
Oh, man.
I love that.
Just like the lack of context is so good when you go into a movie like completely blind,
especially one that's like such a cultural phenomenon like this.
Yes.
Well, and like you, there's times where people are telling me some movies are classic.
You got to see it.
And you know, I'm not immune either.
I'll watch it.
I'm like, OK.
Like, I guess it's a classic.
So it's you can be disappointed by my movies that have a lot of hype.
So I'm glad to hear that this one at least lived up to it.
You know.
Yeah.
I am personally with story sitting at a 91.
I was phenomenal, like very, very few issues.
Any issues I had was just mainly with like other characters anyway.
So I'm sitting at 91.
Where are you guys sitting at?
Douglas, do you want to go first since you are the guest?
Sure.
I I really enjoyed the story and my reasoning.
You know, you guys had a very specific criteria.
So I had I what I try to do is analyze it.
I think exactly the way you wanted me to, which is to isolate the one thing.
And then I also tried to figure out why, you know, why is it good, middle or bad?
And with this one, I gave it a high score.
I thought the story was excellent because they took a film that was a kind of a classic
horror setup, you know, where a crew slowly gets stalked down to the last person and it's
done in space.
And they really pick up right where the other one left off.
So it's a sequel.
And sequels can be absolutely tricky.
And usually they're not as good as the first.
And this is clearly and it's following up what especially at the time was already considered
a classic.
So for me to take that story into a sequel and and run it into new territory and then
pick up the pace and change the genre, which is you have to have a lot of confidence to
do this.
You know, this was Ridley Scott and you're like, hey, I'm this new guy named James Cameron.
I'm going to go a different direction with it.
This could have been a disaster.
So to me, I thought the story was excellent because you're already you are forced to pick
up where the other story left off.
You're forced to stay within the canon.
There's some limitations on you in telling this story.
And they told the story about her coming back years later.
So they added this this caveat that we're leaping into the future and she and we saw
the main character.
You have a colony where the derelict spacecraft was from the first film and it gets exposed
to the colonists.
And it's not it's not a coincidence like a lot of movies would do like, oh, she just
happens to wake up and now we have this problem.
No, because she wakes up, the corporate guy sends the colonists out there.
And it triggers the whole series of events.
The other thing I liked was that I guess we'll save some of that for logic.
I'll get into some of that.
But the idea of the of a colony being placed in close proximity, proximity to the original
derelict alien spacecraft, I think is ingenious.
And the idea of coming to this place from Earth from a safe place and arriving to find
this the powers on, you know, there's half eaten donuts and there's evidence of a severe
struggle everywhere.
There's barricades which are made out of like bed frames and air conditioning units like
it looks desperate and the barricade didn't hold.
And you get this sense this this this arriving at a place where it's been overrun and not
seeing either the aliens or the humans.
I just thought it was ingenious from a storytelling standpoint to put us into that scenario and
then to pull the trigger.
And now you're being overwhelmed by these creatures over and over again.
And then also to advance the lore by introducing the Queen alien.
I thought these are these are ingenious moves for a sequel.
And in the end, we have a thriving franchise after this movie.
So I gave it a ninety five.
Is that where I left?
Yeah, I gave it a ninety five because I felt like to tell the story as a sequel and then
to deliver something new and original and unique and yet action packed.
It's incredible.
And I felt like I was in good hands pretty much the whole way through the movie from
a kid to today on a rewatch.
I loved it.
Yeah.
Oh, man.
So like I love when a it almost like I love mixing genres when it comes to like a trilogy
or like to any movie type.
I love when they're able to play with that genre a bit where it becomes like like how
this one did, like where it was it starts off horror and then the next one classic eighties
eighties movie action sequence art film.
And like if they were to like dive more and more into different things, like I love when
they're able to do that.
I think that's something that like draws me to like our films like in the MCU because
it's like there's a bunch of different types of I mean, it's all the same superhero movie,
but and the same thing with like comic books.
You get different types of stories depending on what story you're reading, but it's all
superhero.
And here it's like it's all alien, but different versions of the alien.
Yeah, that's a great point.
And Marvel's a good example because there's so many films and they are all a little different.
You know, lately there's the criticism of the Marvel formula that kind of dead in some
form of it, but but that's more of a recent criticism.
Most of those older up until Endgame, I would say most of those films were were successful.
And you know, you have Thor Ragnarok, which is nothing like Iron Man.
And now recently you have Deadpool and Wolverine totally different tone there.
So you know, you're right.
Maybe there's something to changing or adjusting the genre that that revitalizes, you know,
long form storytelling through sequels.
Yeah, that's a great point.
Where are you at, Rose?
So I'm just one point above Caleb at a ninety two.
To me, this story is though it's one of those rare sequel stories that like improves on
what you enjoyed about the original, but everything you didn't like about the original, they take
that away and just.
Just go with something new.
And I love that James Cameron did that with this.
I honestly really appreciate it when directors can go a different direction, but make it
make sense in the lore.
Like I believe, like you said, Douglas, just like I was so impressed with the story.
It flowed so well.
I love that they they I mean, I know it wasn't like right after the ending of Alien, but
I always love when a sequel picks up like right after the first one, like with the original
Halloween two, it takes place the exact same night as the first one, literally minutes
after Michael gets shot off the balcony, he gets up and continues walking the streets
of Haddonfield.
Bam, we enter Halloween to freaking love that because I love that those two can be
considered just like one movie and like in some ways you can consider Alien and Alien
to one movie.
In my opinion, I know the completely different genres and what directions that they they
took it in.
But just yeah, this is one of the best stories in a sequel I've I've ever seen.
Well and to your point, just comparing it to Alien, there's a lot more story in the
second one than the first film.
The first film was was much more limited on its storytelling than and some of it's because
of the genre, you know, horror is a little bit more confined by nature, but there's a
lot more storytelling in this in Aliens than in the first one.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, as it should be.
I mean, with action, you have you have to have a story when you went with action with
horror.
You just have to have a situation to run off of.
That's true.
Because because horror taps into a primal side of our as viewers, you know, the goal
is survive.
So you don't need to have a big story to activate primal survival mode.
But you're right.
When you're telling action, the action will be boring very quickly if there's no if there's
no meaning to it.
So good storytelling gives a lot of meaning to action.
Yeah, absolutely true.
All right, moving on over to writing, which is Douglas's area of expertise.
I'm not sure if we've ever done this, like in a way that's that's accurate.
We've always based this off of like the dialogue and how that that worked out and maybe like
how they set up some situations and and what how the jokes work.
Yeah, like how do you as a as someone who writes for a living, like how do you.
Well, I think I think what you guys are doing is perfect.
I listen to I've listened to a couple of you.
I listened to Frozen Empire actually was another full one that I've listened to.
So I knew that when you were talking about writing in this case that you were talking
about the dialogue, the script maybe.
And I think story is a little closer to maybe the the expansion of writing as as story.
So I did try to separate those out.
And that's why I was saying like from a storytelling standpoint, I thought this had really and
sounds like you guys did too.
Really high marks because as a writer, if you were tasked with following up Alien, there's
a million ways to go nowhere.
And this like one way to do what he did.
And he found a way forward, which revitalized the story and did something that we quite
honestly had never seen before, especially in 1986.
So and and I do think a lot of this and the action and everything held up.
So for me, I did judge it the way I think you guys were judging it, which was from dialogue
and script.
Yeah, all my notes, all my notes are based on dialogue and script.
So I think I'm in line aligned with you guys here.
All right, perfect.
So what this may be the like the one I'm a little harsher on.
So the I think my score is a little bit lower when it comes to writing.
And it's just because there was a lot of kind of like the cheesy 80s like catchphrases.
But then they threw like they threw in some gems.
Like I can't even count how many times I've heard the like what's his face?
The one dude that goes game over, man.
I lost it when I heard that because I'm like, that's this is the movie that comes.
Yeah, that's famous.
Like finally, I know.
Oh, man.
That's awesome.
Yeah, it is stuff like that.
And like some of the the cheat like the stuff from from Vasquez that's just like, I don't
even know what they are.
Just need to know where they are.
Like just just cheesy shit like that.
But like, I think they nailed a lot of the just the hazing that goes on between like
within a unit.
Oh, yeah.
Like, it brought me back to like when I was in my unit, like everyone just gave each other
a hard time and like you get roasted harder than anything.
And so I thought that they were able to take that pretty well.
It was just when they started to go on to like their own stuff, just kind of like say
stuff out loud.
That was like, OK, like chill out, bro.
I feel one line that I just freaking died at was when Ripley is with new and calming
her and she's like, oh, you know, like you need to get some rest.
And she's like, I can't, you know, like I'm going to have a bad dream.
And she points out her her doll and she's like, do you think that she has bad dreams?
She like, no, Ripley, because she's plastic.
Oh, my gosh.
That was amazing.
I've had that happen with my kid where I've tried to set up this whole thing based like,
oh, like she's like, oh, I'm afraid I'm going to have bad dreams.
I did this whole thing with my kid.
But I'm going to have bad dreams.
She has like a stuffed rabbit that she calls Hop that she goes to sleep with.
And I'm just like, oh, well, bad dreams aren't allowed in this house.
And she's like, what do you mean?
I'm like, I told Hop that if there are ever bad dreams in your head that he has to eat
them.
And she's like, oh.
And I was like, yeah.
So Hop eats them.
And she's like, but daddy.
And then she like comes up a whisper.
She's like, Hop's not real.
It's like, damn it.
Yeah.
And what's crazy is I had I have a similar story.
I my kids were a little nervous one night that the fire alarm was doing that because
the and they were for whatever reason, are freaked out both of my kids.
And so I was like, don't worry, dad's going to scare away all the monsters.
I was like, oh, and Jacob was like, dad, why would a monster be scared of you?
Because I'm dead, man.
Am I not scared?
He was so like, this is not going to work.
It didn't do anything to reassure him at all.
It was ridiculous.
He's like, great.
Now we're all going to die.
I was like, I tried to scare him away, I guess.
That was a no go.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
The kids are so funny.
And that Yeah, that's that whole scene with new baby like laugh all types of out loud.
Yeah, they did nail that.
She was so funny.
She was a gem.
I freaking love new.
She was great.
And she had no prior acting experience, by the way.
She pretty much came in and did this one movie and then quit Hollywood.
And this was it.
And she was phenomenal on a high note.
Yeah.
I mean, that's like Jordan hit that final shot and just stand in there.
She crushed the role.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah, she was so good.
I think it helps to we'll get into this with acting, but having practical effects help.
I feel helps with people's acting immensely, especially kids.
Because, oh, yeah, with kids like you, if you have like, if you're tracking a ball with
lights on it, like you can only do so much with with kids.
But like if you if you can physically see it, like with this freaking xenomorph and
the face hugger and shit like, yeah, that's going to freaking scare like you're going
to get genuine fear out of that child.
Totally.
Yeah.
The more the more realistic everything is, the more you as an actor can react to it.
It's funny you say that because like with the original child's play and them wanting
to make Chucky as realistic as they can and, you know, and use at the time as good of animatronics
as they could.
After every single take, they had to make sure that Alex Vincent knew that it was a
doll, that it wasn't actually going to hurt him.
So that's that just proves that they did a really good job of making Chucky scary.
Yeah, there's there's sometimes you're watching these movies and you you get you see the performance
out of the child actor and you're like, like in The Shining.
I don't know if you guys have seen that.
But that kid I'm like, how did they get that little guy to do these scenes?
Or or the Exorcist or The Sixth Sense like there's all these movies where there's like
these child actors like delivering these incredible performances.
And I'm like, man, I don't know if I could have done that at that age.
Like these kids are acting crazy.
You know, it's insane.
Yeah.
The the ability of child acting, I feel has gone down since the 80s.
Well, it's possible that they it might be it's possible that it's overly sanitized,
kind of like what you were saying, Rose, where there's like some, hey, are you OK?
There's probably so many rules and it's probably good that the rules are there to protect the
kid or the child actors.
But it is possible and this is just total speculation that it has watered down or, you
know, soften the blow so much that the the performance has suffered.
Who knows?
Ma'am, I feel like adult acting has gotten better and then kid acting has gotten worse.
Interesting.
You I think you're right.
I can't think of any major standout kid performances.
That's what I'm saying.
Like when I watch some of the older films, I'm like, oh, my God, that kid's like that
kid's acting psychotic.
You know, like that's creeping me out.
And this kid had to act that way.
So I don't know.
You're right.
There is something a little different.
I feel I mean, I don't know.
Like what's like the age range?
Caleb, you would say that like you stop at like a child actor.
Honestly, I'd put like maybe 16 is OK.
Once you start getting into like being considerate, I'd say a more adult actor, I guess.
That's fair.
I mean, like if I'm thinking like kids nowadays that like I feel like actually like push the
bar with their acting.
Even I would say stranger things, you know, for the most part, all those kids are really
good.
But, you know, bringing this up again, it the first one, all of those kids are absolutely
amazing.
Like even though like, yeah, Bill Skarsgard would, you know, make sure that they were
OK in between each take.
I feel that each of them did such an amazing job with being scared of Pennywise.
Well, yeah.
Well, they went more practical with that, though.
That's true.
OK.
Yeah.
Like Bill Skarsgard was actually crawling out of the frickin fridge like they they were
doing real shit.
Yeah.
Like if their their screams seem genuine, probably was.
Yeah.
But yeah, getting back to the writing of this whole thing, like I bet you it's probably
just because of Sigourney Weaver.
Her one liners were so much better than everyone else's.
It was great.
Yeah, absolutely.
And we'll talk more about her with the acting, but you're totally right.
Yeah.
But hers were so cool.
Like when she was just like, she called the alien queen a bitch.
Yeah.
And that's one of the most famous lines of all time.
Get away from her, you bitch.
That's that iconic line.
Oh, man.
She was so she was written as such a badass in this.
She was like she didn't have to try it.
I feel like Vasquez was trying too hard.
Oh, really?
Interesting.
Like it's like it was either her or it was like how she was like getting hyped up by
the the big dude.
She's like, oh, you badass.
I'm like, is she though?
Okay, Drake, Drake, the other guy with the big gun.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was like, dude, like you just got like a hype man.
Like like first off, no woman in a unit gets treated like that.
Like they they get treated like just one of the guys they get roasted, I would say harder
than everyone else.
Like they have to have some like some tough skin.
Like if you have a dude that's hyping them up like that, you're just like, dude, can
you like chill like he will get fricking roasted for hyping her or trying to like.
No, I know what you mean.
What you're saying.
Like it looks like he's giving her a free assist or something.
Yeah, a little bit interesting.
And and this is funny.
I went into this movie having just seen a reel about the actress for Fescus being like
a straight up white woman.
Yeah, like born and raised Beverly Hills.
Her family comes from like Russia and like all that good stuff.
And I'm like.
That's like when I saw her, I was like, this feels very uncomfy.
Like not like knowing what I know.
Yeah.
And yeah, anytime she like went all Spanish on it, because I was raised in a Hispanic
household or like.
That's not true.
My mom did not speak Spanish.
My mom was raised in a Hispanic household, so I have Hispanic family members.
I don't speak Spanish for for shit, but.
I am around.
I've been around Hispanics and her pronunciation was just wretched.
And it was like the frequency of how often she would like switch to Spanish.
I'm like, hmm.
Interesting.
It was funny because it's like she she was doing like super common phrases to not not
anything like an actual Hispanic would say.
Like what a white person would think a Hispanic would say.
Yeah, like they they frickin rode the stereotype hard and it it showed.
I don't I don't even feel like I needed to like know that about that actress and know
that she was.
Not a native Spanish speaker.
Her accent was a little all over the place, and like I said, this is an acting gripe,
but it was just the like the dialogue.
I bet she either asked to play it up or something and.
I don't think it worked out quite as well as they were hoping.
Trying to think of anyone else.
That like stood out in terms of of dialogue.
I like Bishop a lot.
I thought his.
He was a lot.
I liked how he's a little bit more upfront about everything, especially knowing now that
he was at like genuinely good and all of the stuff with the face hugger was just genuine
interest.
Right.
And not like anything shady.
Like I like that a lot.
I felt his dialogue was really, really well done and Burke.
He sucked.
I freaking hated Burke.
Corporate, corporate lingo.
Man.
Like frickin Ripley's line of like you sold us out for a bottom line.
I'm like, like, get it.
Yeah, that off.
Yeah, she was great, man.
I thought that was great dialogue.
Yeah, like the conversation between the two of them was just so it's so intense.
I loved it because like you could tell Ripley was ready to frickin flip a table and Burke
was just doubled down like like one of these people was going to kill the other.
Yeah, he tried to paint it like they were all becoming paranoid.
He tried to play it cool.
It just didn't work.
Yeah.
Oh, man.
But I like this a lot.
Like I said, it's a few points slower than my story grade.
I didn't quite crack the 90s with this one.
I think I'm sitting like an 88 overall.
What about you, right?
Great case.
No, yeah, no, I agree.
So I'm going to be personally at an 89 and I feel just what bumps me up like one point
from Caleb because I was thinking around the ballpark as well.
88.
But it was especially like towards like the ending of the movie.
Every line that came out of private Hudson's mouth to me was honestly really funny because
it's exactly how I would react in this situation.
Like I'd be asking the same questions freaking out.
Like, yeah, so I can 100% relate to him.
Yeah, he he was strangely cowardly and then brave.
Like he really was on that fine line and he was tilting one way and then he tilted the
other and then he went back.
So I thought I thought he was he was technically us, the audience.
Yeah, usually pick a character in these movies that represent us.
In fact, I think Caleb, you were saying you hated Lambert with every fiber of your body
in the first one.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah, she was.
I'll tell you, she was picked to scream.
She was in.
Oh, God, someone's going to kill me.
She was in a movie right before this and she was famous for her screening.
And she auditioned to play Ripley and they're like, no, you're going to be Lambert.
And your job is to be the audience.
So that's why she was so like a screen queen.
She was queuing us that these were all horrible moments.
Oh, and another thing I was going to add, because you asked, you said during the chest
burster scene of the first film, you're like, I think one of the blood things burst early
because the the reaction was so authentic.
Do you remember saying that?
Yeah.
Ridley Scott did not tell them what was going to happen.
So so they pinned him down and they said the script said just subdue him.
So when they did the take, they were like, we're just going to subdue him.
And all of a sudden it burst the blood burst.
So that's why they're like, what the fuck?
Like, that's why they're so freaked out because he didn't tell him he was going to do it.
So you were totally, totally observant and on point that the reaction was bizarrely authentic
because he tricked them into it.
That is fantastic.
Yeah.
I was like, oh, man, he doesn't know.
I was like, but he's totally all over the pulse of that because, yeah, he tricked them.
I love when that happens because that doesn't happen very often.
It was great.
Sounds like, oh, I can't.
In fact, I made it.
I was like, don't forget to tell them tomorrow how right he was.
That is awesome.
Like, was it the whole like the whole chest burster thing?
The scene where it first pops, they all stop and freeze.
And then he starts like flailing again and they jump on him again.
That take was authentic because no one knew it was going to happen.
But they knew eventually there was going to be a chest burster scene, but they were told
that that wasn't going to be filmed for several days.
So they weren't on guard for the chest burster.
They're like, ah, what the hell?
He's like, we're using that take.
Dude, that is fantastic.
Yeah, totally.
It was great to hear you say it.
Oh, love it.
Absolutely love it.
All right.
Where are you sitting with with writing?
Did you say you said 89?
I think, correct?
Yeah, he did.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I'm at 92.
I'm just a little higher.
And I have to tell you, it is possible I might be insulated from some of the cheesier lines.
It's funny when you started to bring them up.
I was like, oh, yeah, that's true.
That is kind of a cheesy line.
The Vasquez thing didn't affect me so much, probably be that that's essentially a newer
criticism and it's a good criticism, but it didn't affect me until now.
So I've had quite a long time to be comfortable with Vasquez.
But only recently, I'm like, oh, man, they would never allow that today.
So she probably does have some of the more stereotypical lines or some of the weaker
lines in terms of the writing.
But I still love Vasquez.
I really do like her.
I thought she was tough in this.
I love her moment when they take the magazines away from everybody and she's the one who's
like, we're keeping some ammo.
Here you go.
There was stuff about her that was definitely endearing like that because I'm like, I don't
give a shit about this facility.
This isn't invalidating what you said.
What you said were very good points.
I'm just saying, I guess I was able to watch this at a time where I didn't think about
that or that wasn't an issue yet, so it didn't cross my mind yet.
But all valid.
It's all valid points.
What I liked about the writing is I did think there was a lot of critical dialogue that
was put into this that really worked.
It helped you.
At no point in the film was I lost in what was happening from a tactical standpoint.
I understood when they were in the last stand situation.
I understood how they were getting out through the vents.
I understood the overconfidence coming in, the discussion to try to figure out where
the colonists were.
The dialogue made it very easy for me to go through the story.
That's why I gave it pretty high marks.
I'm actually not too far off from where you guys were, but I really did like it.
The other thing I gave it a bump or into the 90s, I guess, is because this movie does have
what's considered famous dialogue.
To be fair, that wouldn't be something I would take into account from a first impression.
Because you wouldn't know.
You don't know.
You're not thinking, oh, that's an iconic line.
That is affecting my judgment on some level.
Get Away From Her, you bitch, is one of the most iconic lines of all time.
You mentioned, game over, man.
Game over.
Totally famous line.
You'll see it in memes, on social media.
Another one is Carrie Henn, who played Newt.
They mostly come out at night.
Mostly.
That mostly line has become kind of a famous thing.
You'll see it in Family Guy.
It's in South Park.
Apparently, there's a hashtag mostly on X or Twitter because of this.
Some of the lines in this has gone on to legend status.
I did give it an extra little boost for that, I think.
Yeah, totally valid.
Totally valid.
Oh, man.
All right, moving on over to acting.
Going through this cast list.
Starting off with the one and only Sigourney Weaver, who played Ripley.
We got Michael Bain.
Bain.
Bain, who played Corporal Hicks.
We got Carrie Henn, who played Newt.
Paul Reiser, who played Burke.
Lance Henriksen, who played Bishop.
Bill Paxton, who played Private Hudson.
Jeanette Goldstein, who played Private Vasquez.
That's it.
Oh, is that it?
That's our skin, your Rita?
Yeah.
All right, what's your guys?
I assume we're all on the same page with our number one being Ripley herself.
Yeah, I don't think there's any question.
Yeah, 100%.
My score is boosted a little bit by her, but I'll let you.
I think, Caleb, you usually lead us off.
Yeah, I'm curious what your guys' other top two are.
I would say Carrie Henn, because her ability as a child actor to convey sort of a PTSD,
because she's really closed off early on, and then she comes to life.
And then by the end of it, she's leading a battered battalion of colonial Marines through
the ventilation shaft.
They're following her.
She's in charge.
She's like, this way, no, that way.
I love that.
And she's able to do all of those phases.
So I think her acting performance was a huge boost to this film in total.
Like you said, a child actor could blow it.
If you look at some of the ones today, I always think of, do you ever see The Grinch with
Jim Carrey?
There's that little girl.
She's adorable, right?
But it's so obvious she's acting in every scene.
She's like, yes, Mr. Grinch.
So if the child actor, if Newt came across as a child actor being told what to say and
it's obvious to her, then I think this film may not have worked.
It's possible that it just wouldn't have worked.
So I think she did a fantastic job.
I really appreciated Carrie Henn.
I also really liked Michael Bean and Bill Paxton.
They were kind of your older brother types.
One guy a little bit more, see like, hey, cut the nonsense.
We're going to be serious.
The other guy's like, hey, screw that, man.
We're doing this.
We're doing that.
You had two older brother figures and then one guy cracks.
So I appreciated their acting performance there.
I loved Lance Henriksen as Bishop, as kind of a chilling and yet compassionate android.
He's kind of a little bit of both at times.
And I think he kind of hit that right on the head with what they needed, especially since
they set him up to be the next Ash.
And then he turned, not only is he not the next Ash, this is the guy that comes swooping
in at the end.
The big hero, you know, Ripley's out of moves.
She played every card in her and then she's trapped on that platform.
The Queen alien is coming out and she's like, close your eyes, baby.
This is it.
She's got no more.
She gave up and then this guy comes bursting up behind her in a very heroic moment.
It's a dramatic moment.
And he saves her.
So this guy ends up being one of the big heroes of the story.
And I loved it.
I loved that Bishop was one of the warriors in the end who came through.
So I thought for the most part, a lot of the actors delivered.
However, I have to say I can't I have to be somewhat cognizant of the fact that in terms
of what makes great, like a 100 percent acting is range, the range that you would expect.
And an action thriller, despite the performances, is only going to give us a small range of
acting.
It would be difficult for me to treat these guys and the actors and actresses as Casablanca
or like I just don't think the subject material lent itself beyond a certain point.
That said, Sigourney Weaver, it's not that she was just a good actor in this.
She was nominated in 1987 for this.
I know the movie was 1986, but the Academy Awards were in 87.
She was nominated for best actress in a leading role, which is asinine for the Academy Awards
to go with science fiction action thriller.
More recently, you'll see some of it.
But back then, absolutely not.
Sci-fi was not well respected as a prestige class.
And she broke that mold.
She was she lost to someone.
And to this day, I'm pissed about it.
But she was nominated.
That is awesome, though.
Yeah.
Yeah, she was incredible.
So my acting score was 88.
I gave it I still think relatively high score considering the performances.
But there were some like you said, Jeanette Goldstein had some some wobble.
I actually thought Paul Reiser was mostly good in this, but I thought he was oddly cast.
He was a comedian.
So it was odd to see him in this.
But 88 is what I gave it for its acting.
It's spearheaded mainly by an Academy Award nominated actress.
I just looked up the 87 Academy Awards.
Yes.
And yeah, the winner was Marlee Matlin for Children of a Lesser God.
Oh, I don't even know what the hell movie that is.
It was a big movie that year.
But it's it hasn't it's not like memorable the way Aliens is.
None of these are like the morning after the crimes of the heart.
Peggy Sue got married and then Aliens.
Like no way, dude.
Totally.
I like I said, there's a few things I'm still sore about with the Oscars.
This is one of them.
I just thought it's such an iconic role.
And she delivered a prestige performance in a genre that was not considered prestigious.
And I don't know, I really admire her for it.
And I wish she would have won.
I agree.
Aliens did win for best sound effects editing.
It won that year.
And visual effects.
Yep.
Best visual.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Much deserved.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll mention some of the other wins as I actually categorize some of the nominations
and wins in the categories that we have set up.
So I wrote them all down for us.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Rose, what's your other your other top two?
That's like a weaver.
So I'm really going to agree with Douglas a lot here.
Number two, going to give to Carrie Henn knew everything that he said about her.
She was absolutely amazing.
And honestly, one of the most amazing performances I've ever seen from a child actor.
She just blew me just blew it out of the water.
Like, fantastic.
Number three, I'd give to Bill Paxton, private Hudson, his his performance was just, it was
just a joy to watch throughout.
And I had a I had a really fun time every single time that he was on screen.
It's so funny watching him in a role like a role where he's significantly younger, because
I recently just watched a show and he was like the head guy of like a military group
and everything and like leading these people like just like the hard ass.
Watching this, I was like, holy shit, this is not that character.
That's what yeah.
Or even in Titanic, he's like the older, you know, mercenary guy on the ship.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's so funny to watch his role in in this because I really like Bill Paxton.
Yeah, so when I saw this role, I was like, it shocked me.
I love watching like actors that I've grown up with, knowing them as like adults and then
seeing them do like their younger work, like what they did to get to the point that they're
at.
See, that's so funny because a lot of guys my age, you know, this guy was like beloved
in Aliens.
So for us, I was like, oh, man, Bill Paxton starting to get old, man.
Remember, he was he used to be Hudson.
Now look at him.
He's starting to slow down.
So it's weird.
Like I'm on the exact reverse cycle there.
Yeah, it's it's so funny.
Like I like today, I just watched The Rocketeer and Jennifer Conley's in it.
And I am familiar with all of her like later work.
And so watching something where she's so young is it's trippy because it's like she does.
She's aged like a fine wine.
But she it's it's weird saying like her younger self because it's just like, oh, man, like
just the contrast is fantastic.
Yeah.
Like, I love watching those are making those leaps in an actor's work.
You know, it's hysterical is Haley Joel Osment was in Cobra Kai.
And it was a very small role.
And my kids actually love Cobra Kai.
And I was watching it and I was like, you know, you want to see a movie with him when
he was like your age?
So I put on The Sixth Sense and it's just bizarre watching the kids because to them,
it's the same guy, but he's bearded and kind of different looking here.
And he's obviously like 30 something.
And now he's, you know, 10 in The Sixth Sense or whatever it is.
So it is it is interesting watching actors or actresses across that age spectrum.
You know?
Yeah, it's it's it's odd.
It's like once you first get introduced to an actor, it's like they that's where they're
kind of they live in your brain.
Right.
In front of you.
Yeah.
Like I have like I feel like I view like we talked about a little earlier, like with my
dad watching the Dukes of Hazzard, I always like the way that the the Dukes are stuck
in my mind is how they were in the show.
And so when I see them older, I'm just like, goodness.
But in my mind, they're like permanently in there, like what?
Mid 20s, early 30s.
Yeah, man.
The Daisy Dukes.
I just saw something on her.
Apparently she looks pretty good still.
Yeah, I don't know.
What's that?
She looks fantastic.
Oh, man.
I still think so.
But I also had a crush on her.
So I think every guy in the world did, man.
I never watched Dukes of Hazzard as a kid, so I did not.
Sorry.
Yeah, Daisy Duke.
She had those short jeans.
Every guy was just enamored with her.
Yeah, my my top two, I think we're all in agreeance.
My number two is also Carrie Henn loved her.
And like you guys pretty much covered everything that I would have to say.
My number three, though, I'm given to Lance Hendrickson.
That's a good show.
I loved his character.
He was so he was so good at just kind of being like someone you were wary of and you felt
like you needed to.
This may have everything to do with how Ash was, but just he kind of had like the same
intrigue in the facehuggers and the xenomorphs and everything that that Ash did.
So he obviously didn't take it as far.
He was like detached, though, still.
Yeah.
So when he was the one that made the final like the big save of Newt, I was like, yes,
like, yeah, like, yes, like this is the shit.
I actually love that scene because it's edited so quickly and there's all facial expressions.
I love it.
It's so exciting to see him come back and save them.
Yeah.
All right.
Where are you guys sitting with your acting scores?
I was at eighty eight eighty eight and I'm going to match Douglas on that eighty eight.
I might be a hair lower and it's just because of some of I feel like there was a little
bit of overacting going on, especially when they're not necessarily because of Vasquez.
I'm totally kidding.
I mean, she was I mean, she was part of it.
And I wish that I would have gone into the movie thinking she was Hispanic, honestly,
because I think it's because that that reel was so fresh in my mind.
I was like looking for it.
And that's like, yeah.
So I wish that I could have watched it and then seen that just to see how I would have
compared.
But I mean, I try to set that aside, but I'm well, but it's still a valid aspect of the
job, your judgment.
I mean, it's it's definitely when you pointed out like the just tell me where they are.
Like I've grown to love all these things, but I could totally see how.
Yeah, that wouldn't hold up from a first impression or from someone watching it for the first
time.
Maybe maybe that's not such a great line.
So I totally get it.
Yeah.
I think I'm closer to like 86 in terms of acting.
Like totally fair.
Ninety nine percent of that 86 is going to Sigourney Weaver.
Like I love her.
I already loved her.
This just made me love her again.
I mean, this is she's in so many great movies and she's got so many great roles.
I even liked her in Avatar.
You know, like I loved her in Galaxy Quest.
Like there's so many things I like.
But this is I think she's at the top of my list of favorite heroines from this movie.
I just I don't know of any heroines that are more bad ass than than her the way she was
in this one.
Like time and time again, she just comes through and and delivers it convincingly, you know.
Yeah, rightfully so, dude.
All right.
Next up, we got character development.
This isn't like this is the one that we usually do if it's not like the only one that we do
logic for is like horror based.
OK, or actually horror.
OK, I was going to say earlier then for writing that one of the things I appreciated was the
logic.
You know, sometimes in movies, characters behave and you pointed out even an alien in
a couple of cases where characters did things that you're like, what are you doing?
What are you thinking?
I didn't get too much of that from aliens.
I felt that there was serious like right away they came to the conclusion we should nuke
this place.
I was like, good.
The movie, they never make that such extreme call in movies.
And she does.
And they agree with her like right off the bat.
So I was really happy that that the character seemed to be legitimately trying to get out
of their situation and and coming up just a little short.
So I saved that for this, but I'll punt it back over to to writing.
Yeah, the.
I mean, that being said, I think that the issue that some movies have is they write
out a situation or just a conflict that has a pretty obvious solution.
And then it's like, OK, we need to make sure that they don't get to this conclusion.
And so they do things against their own self-interest here.
There was an obvious solution.
It was just getting that solution in place because they had like they had so much they
had to do.
Like they had to like either wait out until they were rescued or they had to find a way
to get on the ship.
And it's just like thing after thing just kind of kept getting in their way and made
it almost impossible for them to like accomplish this this task, which is exactly what you
want out of this.
It's just you don't want it to have an obvious solution and you want it to be difficult to
pull it off.
That's where all the like the action comes in.
Man, perfectly said.
I agree.
There's nothing more frustrating than having an obvious solution that the characters either
bungle around or avoid completely.
And you're like, dude, nobody would avoid at least raising this possibility of this
other option.
So anyway, perfectly said.
I agree.
I don't like I'm very much like I really appreciate writers that the characters say exactly what
you want them to say and then either fail or it doesn't work.
And you're like, oh, shit, well, now what?
You know, you're off balance as a viewer of a movie and that's those make for great films.
Yeah.
And it's just it shows off like getting in the character development, just the creativity
that art like the main character has.
So like watching Ripley like pivot whenever like something came in her way and like, all
right, well, we need to do this or nope.
We need to do like, OK, we can't do that.
We need to do this.
And like almost immediately having a plan like backup plans upon backup plans and executing
that as best as she can.
And then luckily, you're working with a creature that is just impossible to gauge what they're
going to do other than like attack on site.
Yeah.
So it's just like, OK, maybe this is getting a little too easy for them.
Boom.
Here's a here's a creature that came out of nowhere, which is totally within the logic
of the the story you're telling.
But I loved watching Ripley's growth through this, like starting off being like super like
heavily PTSD up and like just waking up in a cold sweat and like just drenched and being
like, yeah, I'm never going to that that planet again.
Blamer.
Right.
And then it was it was challenging something that she felt strongly with that, like even
brought her to that because they're like, how many people are there?
They're like 70 families and she's like, families.
God damn it.
Yeah, that's a great point.
Actually, that's a great point.
Yeah, that that was the the the the new piece of information that she couldn't quite shake
after she said no to switch over to a yes, I'll go.
Yeah.
They didn't establish like Ripley wasn't a mother.
And so did they establish any of that or not a theatrical cut that you watched in the extended
cut?
There's a scene after she meets Burke and she's remember, remember, she's in that boardroom
where she's like, all this stuff that you guys think is important, you can kiss it all goodbye.
And they're all those corporate people who are like really nauseating.
Right before that scene, she's in a like park bench, like room on the space station.
It's like artificial park.
And Burke comes in and he's like, hey, let's get ready to talk about your deposition.
And she's like, did you tell me about my daughter?
Did you find out anything about my daughter?
And he's like, let's not worry about that.
Let's focus on the deposition.
She's like, Burke, tell me about my daughter.
And he's like, okay.
And he pulls out some papers.
And it's funny because it's like a sheet of paper with dot matrix printing on it.
And that was in the future is ridiculous.
But he holds up a picture of Sigourney Weaver's mom, I found out.
So that is awesome.
Yeah, it looks like Sigourney Weaver because it's her mom.
Anyway, he goes, this is your daughter, Amanda Ripley.
And she died five years ago at the age of 60 something.
And Ripley literally starts crying and it's a good acting scene.
She's like, I told her I'd be home for her 11th birthday.
And she's like in tears about it.
So they do set up that she had lost a daughter because she aged out when she was lost in
space.
So there is that in the in the director's cut, but it is certainly not in the theatrical
cut.
Oh, man.
That would have added so much to her decision to go.
Yeah, I know.
I actually love I actually really liked that scene.
I was talking to somebody semi recently who hated that scene.
He was so upset about that in the director's cut.
And I kept thinking, I don't know.
I think that that that really contextualized her maternal instinct, which is clearly in
play by the end.
But it is in there.
If you ever get a chance, you should check out the director's cut.
There's some cool stuff in the director's cut.
There's a scene when they're barricaded in the thing and they have these giant sentry
guns that are motion censored.
So if anything moves, it just and they set them up down these two corridors and the aliens
come down these corridors and the sentry guns are just like shooting everything until they
run out.
So anyway, there's some cool stuff in the director's cut.
Just what it's worth.
I am pumped.
My wife wants to do a chronological viewing of all the aliens and predators movies.
And so, yeah, when we come back to back around to watch in aliens, I think we'll try and
find the director's cut because that sounds sick.
I would have been so down for that because like her like not knowing that it did feel
like that like that maternal instinct kind of came out of nowhere.
And then that's what made me think like, oh, does she have a kid or did she or like what
happened with that?
Like that's brought up those questions.
Perfectly valid questions.
It's funny because I had the like you.
I had the exam.
I'm like, man, it seems like she must have had a daughter.
So when I and it took remember it took like 20 something years before the director's cut
came out.
So when I finally clicked play on the director's cut, I was like, I felt so vindicated.
So I was like, I knew it.
I knew there was something going on there.
But yeah, seeing like the way that she dealt with that and seeing like how no one really
took her seriously, like even during the briefing with the Marines, like no one was taking her
seriously.
She's just the crazy alien lady.
And then it's like and then when she then when she hit the fan, they like immediately
look at her like, what do we do?
And she rises to the to the moment.
She's like, this is what we're going to do.
Yeah.
Like she had to because like that lieutenant was worthless as as balls.
Like, like he's just like all shoulders.
I'm like, dude, like, can you freaking pick it up?
Yeah.
And yeah, he aggravated me.
And I love that, like the freaking like did like a bait and switch with like the who was
it like?
Was it the lieutenant?
The one that was like talking to her initially?
Like her and him and Burke?
Oh, yeah.
When they're trying to recruit her to come on the mission.
Yeah, that was that was him, right?
Lieutenant Gorman.
Yeah.
Like he he seemed like he was so like capable.
And then it just like he freaking panicked under under pressure and then gets his ass
knocked out.
And then they're just like, I love that.
Like it showed that Burke was already a little on the shady side when he's like, well, listen,
like they no one would approve that.
And she's like, this is a military operation.
The military is in charge of it.
Like she's so quick.
I think that's what I loved about her.
Like she's just called people out on their bullshit.
And I'm like, yes.
Yeah.
I like that scene, too, because it's funny.
All the Marines are looking at her and listening like, oh, shit.
And even when she's like Hicks is next.
Hicks has authority here.
Hicks is like, yeah, well, I guess no.
Like he doesn't even want this role, you know.
Very good stuff.
Yeah.
And then I it was nice that he just kind of like shifted all authority over to her because
he's like, I don't want any of this.
Yeah.
She's making calls and he basically is like approved.
We're going to nuke this place.
Yeah.
And I don't blame any of them for like being completely on the the nuking train, like especially
being like out in the middle of the shit.
Like the decision that leadership makes versus the decisions that the grunts would make the
ones around.
Yeah.
The ones actually doing the work are so wildly different.
And it was it was cool to see that that was the case here as well.
Like, you know, we don't want to nuke it because it's very expensive equipment.
People are like, nobody here cares about that.
Like these freaking corporate people have no sense of self-preservation.
Yeah, there's no primal instinct.
Yeah.
Like, what goes that like all that extra money going to do you when you're dead?
Idiot.
Totally.
100 percent.
But yeah, like this was a really cool, like transition of Ripley becoming like just a
PTSD driven like like officer to just the ultimate badass.
Yeah.
Taking on the alien queen, like, you know, freaking mono, mono.
I mean, she's taking on like the alien civilization by herself, like just goes in, man.
No one helped her.
No one came with her.
And like I said, I remember the first time I saw it, I just really felt worried.
I was like, this chick's nuts.
Like I wouldn't I don't know.
You know, as a guy, sometimes you're like, I would I could see myself doing that.
I you know, I could I was like, I don't know if I would want to go in there.
I don't know if I could summon the courage to load up, to gear up and then go in there
by myself into the hive without anyone else to try to find new like I don't like it was
a pretty bold call.
And they didn't make it easy for her either.
You know, she she went into all sorts of trouble in there and and barely made it out.
And even then, Bishop was gone and she thought they left her behind like none.
And then even after she gets back, the alien queen comes back like it just she's never
let off the hook until the very, very end.
They did so good at just like keeping that tension so high and like giving you a moment
to breathe when they land and then you just fricking impale Bishop and you're like, oh
no.
You totally I remember as a kid watching it, remember when he when Bishop goes to finally
leave the landing gear gets caught for a second.
And then, you know, he's struggling.
And remember, I was like, as a kid, I was like, the alien is going to jump on your ship.
And then he makes it up.
There's the nuclear explosion and he gets back and the music is like soothing.
And I remember I was like, oh, I guess the alien didn't get on the ship.
Thank God.
And then the blood starts, the acid starts to drip.
And I was like, you better not.
I was like, oh, no, the queen did get off.
So I was like, man, this movie just doesn't give me anything that I want.
Like they're always it's on my shoulders all the time.
Yeah.
I think it just adds like to the like the tensions of the stakes, too, because it's
just like it literally anything can happen with these damn aliens because they just pop
up where they are not wanted.
Yeah, that's true.
That is absolutely true.
Yeah, but I love Ripley's arc.
Like they they start her off at like a low point, like just kind of working as a like
a factory work or where color.
And then they like slowly build her up to like this ultimate alien killing like barbarian.
And honestly, none of it felt sensationalized.
It all felt like she put together what she had.
There's the loader.
That's the best she could do.
Like it all seemed like very practical solutions that through each stage.
So I never felt that she got overly since she's not delivering roundhouse kicks to these
things or she's not she's not acting like beyond her station.
It was all very much in line with her abilities.
And and like you said, in the end, it's this epic accomplishment or series of accomplishments
in defending as many people as she could while getting the hell out of there.
Yeah.
And I love I I loved how she was like this kind of ties into like her maternal instincts
with Newt, but how quick she was to defend like Nuke and her ideas when she was kind
of being put down.
Like when I think it was Hudson, like was given new a hard time, like, oh, we're just
going to listen to some kid.
And she's like, she survived here for who knows how long with zero training.
And like, she's still alive.
Like, yeah, we're going to listen to her.
And I'm like, yeah.
Yeah.
Good.
Yeah.
I was.
What was the name of the like the frickin hype man?
For Vasquez.
Oh, Drake.
Drake.
Yeah, I was I was I was Ripley's Drake.
This whole movie.
You're like you were just too bad.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I.
Hype man.
I love that.
Yeah, I was I was pumped.
Every decision she made, I was frickin super for it.
But I like her arc was so it made sense.
Like nothing was out of like too out of character for her.
Like it was all.
Like really well put together.
So I this is one I'm really high on.
Like I'm probably 93.
Hmm.
Like super well done.
What are you thinking, Rose?
I kind of like talked all the way through that one.
No, like literally you guys said everything perfectly.
I have like nothing to add.
You guys explained it.
No, like, sir, you guys explained her character perfectly and how great it was.
And just like looking at where she came from in the first alien to where she ends up in
the aliens is it's really frickin cool.
It's such a great character arc.
So I'm going to be at a 92.
I I'm a little higher, but I'll try to make my case for why I put it at 97.
And I'll tell you why.
I think that the character development in this, not just for Ripley, but for multiple
characters is why this movie has lasted so long, because several characters actually
go through an arc.
So you guys, especially Caleb, you really laid out the Ripley arc.
It's one of the best ones from, like you said, blue collar.
She describes herself as a fifth wheel at one point.
Like, hey, I guess I got nothing to do around here.
I'm not a soldier.
And then she's the one who saves saves the day, fights a queen alien hand to hand.
I mean, that's insanity.
So her arc is pretty, pretty secure.
But also Newt.
You know, Newt lost her mother and family.
She has PTSD.
She's a she's a survivor in the most basic way.
She couldn't have lasted much longer without food and everything on this.
But so and by the end of it, she's leading the colonial Marines through the ventilation
shafts like she's the she has a very epic moment of.
In fact, there's a there's a scene where Vasquez is like soldering the door and they're in
their last stand.
They're in the last room.
And Vasquez is like, whatever you're going to do, do it fast.
And it's Newt who's like the ventilation shafts.
She finds a secret door basically.
And they all follow her lead into this thing.
And in this world, that's kind of a creepy place to go into a ventilation shaft.
It's pretty claustrophobic.
And these aliens are like in those things.
So she she has an arc.
She goes from like childhood survivor to like leader as well in her own way.
Hudson goes through an arc, right?
Overconfident, brash, almost annoyingly brash in a way like the older brother who like picks
on you.
But he but he loves you anyway.
And then he he panics and he goes into a complete act of cowardice, like way out in the open
for everyone to see.
And people are like jawing at him because he's so nauseatingly cowardly.
And then he has an arc.
He starts to kind of collect himself and then he makes a big last stand.
And I think most of us hate the way he dies because he had he kind of came out of it.
He's like, you want some of this?
Oh, you too.
He's like totally unafraid of the aliens in the end.
And then the one comes up and gets him and pulls him down.
So he redeems himself in a large way with this great last stand.
Bishop has a great arc.
Caleb, you kind of hit on this as well.
He's he's set up as the detached, chilling android who's becoming enamored with the aliens
and might be prone to psychotic behavior like Ash.
And then he's the big hero.
He has a big heroic moment.
And Gorman, the useless lieutenant, right?
He he he seems competent, like you said.
And then he's freezes up like completely in the moment of need.
And Ripley's got to come in there and save them.
And the Marines all saw that that Ripley was the hero.
Luckily for him, he's knocked out.
So he doesn't have to answer for any of this.
And in the end, when they're going through those ventilation shafts, Vasquez collapses.
She's down.
Her legs are burning with acid and Gorman goes back for her.
So even the preppy, useless lieutenant has has a heroic death in this.
He goes back to try to save Vasquez and he's trying.
He's got his handgun out.
He's trying to drag her and he runs out of bullets.
So you know, there's all even and then of course, Burke, who starts as the good guy
and is unmasked as a bad guy and then gets his come up.
There's so many character arcs in this.
And I think that's why this film hits a high note is because of the character development.
There's so many movies where you have a lot of actors with big personalities.
And sometimes they especially today, they get really forgettable.
And I think it's because there's no arcs.
And I think the reason these guys are big personalities stick around in the head is
because each one of them kind of had their flaws and they all kind of go out heroically
except for Burke.
We don't like him.
So that's why I gave this such a high score.
I just really love it.
We talked about Newt.
You know, Ripley lost a daughter and gains one new lost a mother and gains one.
So there's there was a lot in terms of character development.
And for an action film, it's rare to see so much.
So that's why I went high on the score.
Yeah.
I do have to make a note without the context of the scene of Ripley like losing a daughter.
The like Newt calling her mommy fell kind of sudden.
Like very like I don't know.
Like what did you think, Rose?
Like am I just being an asshole about it?
I don't think you are.
No, like the points that you guys made, you know, earlier on about how if if it weren't
for the director's cut coming out and you know, the how how well Ripley just translates
or transitions into being there for new and just like those mom instincts kicking in.
Like it does feel out of it feels a little out of left field like you like you.
You get used to it.
But like when it first happens, you're just like, OK, was not expecting that.
And it makes you question why, you know, like, oh, did she have a daughter?
And like you said, Douglas, that in the director's cut, it actually it it showcases that she
actually does.
So no, I do think you do have a point, Caleb.
Yeah, Caleb, I agree with Rose.
I've seen the director's cut.
So for me, I don't even think about it anymore.
But you're right.
What if what if what if I forget what if the director's cut doesn't exist?
Then you're right, some of those moments don't quite line up.
Yeah, it was just.
A little sudden, I'm just like, whoa, like, like they just found you today.
Yeah, like you replaced your mom pretty damn quick.
That's that's that's a good point.
Yeah.
But I I loved everyone's like little miniature arcs.
I love the vast guess.
Yeah.
Vasquez is last lines to.
Oh, yeah.
Lieutenant, just like I thought you were kind of an asshole.
And then they blow up like, dude, if there is anything to go out to honest to the end,
you know, like that, like that redeemed the character like her, like all the issues I'd
had with her up until that point, like all those just frickin just vanished with that
line.
I was like, yeah, yeah, she had she did fight tough in that in the event in the shafts in
there.
And what's funny is the there's the scene where she the alien lands on her from above
and then she pins the head up with her foot.
Right.
She puts her foot and she just blows away this she guns away at this thing's head at
point blank range.
And that's, of course, when the acid gets on her a little tidbit.
The actress, Jeanette Goldstein, didn't know how to handle guns, so she couldn't do the
scene and felt really uncomfortable.
So the producer of the film, who's a woman, Gail and heard she came in to do that scene.
So the foot and the gun and that all that is actually the producer of the movie.
As it's just bizarre.
That is fantastic.
Yeah.
And that does explain how why she looks so goofy with the with the big gun.
Yeah.
Things were really heavy.
I couldn't put my finger on it.
Like when she like I saw her moving and then Drake was kind of doing the same, like kind
of mimicking her.
I was like, OK, maybe I'm just weird.
But something was off about that.
Yeah.
Like something was off.
And like I said, I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
So I didn't think it was like worth bringing up.
But yeah, that's fantastic.
Yeah.
All right.
Next up, we got effects.
And I freaking love this.
Yeah.
So good.
You cannot beat practical effects.
And if there's anything that like I have a pretty love hate relationship with James Cameron,
I think a lot.
Yeah.
Good point.
I the one thing I respect about him as a director is that he will try to push the the barriers
of filmmaking to their absolute limit.
And like he like I didn't necessarily care for Avatar.
I love watching behind the scenes stuff about that.
Totally.
Did you buy.
So have you only seen the first Avatar?
Did you see the second one?
I have not watched that one yet.
So I was this.
So dude, I was the same as you.
I find it took me so long to watch Avatar.
And when I finally did, I'm saying it was OK.
Like the story wasn't that great.
Like the effects were amazing, but just the story wasn't there.
I after watching the way of water, I am super stoked for the third one, like the second
one made like the second one made me an Avatar fan.
Oh, wow.
Very cool.
Yeah.
Avatar.
The first one, what really made it special was the 3D.
You know, I remember when I went to see it, I couldn't wait to see it again.
It wasn't because of the story.
It's because it was so immersive and so convincing of a 3D effect.
I had never really had a 3D effect like that in a film.
And this was like neon world in an alien world with neon colors all in 3D.
So I think Avatar got a big boost, but that supports I think both of your cases.
You know, that is an effect that Cameron delivered in a spectacle, in a sense, in viewing that
and it became the highest grossing film of all time worldwide.
You know, well, I feel he kind of cheated.
Kind of right.
It was it was the effect that drove everyone crazy in a positive way.
But the film itself is is definitely flawed.
I just hate that after end game came out and be Avatar.
James Cameron had to come out and say, OK, no, let's let's let's re-release Avatar just
so I can get back to number one.
Like, come on, man.
Yeah, that's becoming a becoming more of a trend to to re-release movies and try to bump
up the list.
Yeah, it's true.
Yeah, I think that's where all my bitterness comes from is that frickin stunt.
Same here.
But I mean, in his defense, though, like Marvel was trying the same thing with like an unfinished
scene.
Like, that was true.
So like I said, kind of a love hate.
But what he's done in terms of development on like special effects is.
Like I cannot say enough good about that.
Right.
His practical effects in this.
Like if I'm remembering right, I think like because this like I don't know too much about
the Alien franchise, like at least in terms of like the movie itself and like the story,
all like all that like prior to this, the only information I did know is like a lot
of the.
The effects that went into it and they're like making it happen.
And so one of the things I if I'm remembering right, he was using remote control facehuggers
to run across the floor.
Yes.
And so he had to develop like how to kind of develop that technology and like figure
out how to do like a wireless prosthetic.
Yeah, he created it to where it was on a wheel.
So as one leg came up, the other leg came down on both sides.
So when you put it with six legs, you get that sort of spider crawl that it does.
And because the two front legs are kind of like propped up.
Right.
Yeah.
So you're right.
He created that.
So there's that scene.
It's it's running at Ripley while she's on the ground and it like leaps up at her.
They couldn't get the leap right.
So they filmed it on the camera and someone pulled it back and then they played it in
reverse.
That's how they got the effect to work.
It's such a simple thing, but it looks totally can.
And if you freeze frame it, you could see where they cut from it.
It going like this cut to a reverse shot of it coming back.
And it's so you would never notice it.
You would never notice unless I asked you to go through it frame by frame.
But it's brilliant.
And it because it's so convincing.
So cool.
Yeah.
He he's so good at doing stuff like that.
Like I was even super impressed with some of the space scenes where like when they're
flying like he was pulled.
He was pulling some of the same Star Wars stuff where like they would film like the
ship on like a green screen or something.
And they do like different tracks, but like they do the same motion with the camera.
And if in Star Wars, like it's like the original Star Wars, like you see it with a Millennium
Falcon like you're like side by side with it and it like comes up against the water
and it comes back.
Yep.
I I this is just going to be my excuse to watch Star Wars again.
But if I'm remembering those scenes right, he like all it's like almost done in like
a flat plane.
So he like you don't see like kind of like a curvature like any panning.
And so when he was doing the scenes where it's like straight on shot of the ship and
then you see like like you're panning upward and like the you could tell like the background
was like a matte painting because I think that's how they used to do a lot of those
like cool like super big shots.
And so like you could tell the background was was a matte painting, but they were like
moving it in like a three dimensional space.
So I I'd be really curious to see how that matte painting looks if they did paint like
like a almost like a half dome or something like that, just like be able to pull that
effect off because it looks so good.
Yeah, I think they did use matte.
I know they use matte painting, so you're probably right on the money.
Yeah, I love that stuff.
And like I mean, in terms of CGI, maybe like that stuff hasn't aged the best, but that's
has not like I give I give such bonus points for practical.
And then what he was able to do with the the alien and the alien queen.
Holy oh my gosh.
Like there was never a point other than maybe when she's like falling out into space.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's stop motion.
Yeah.
Like other than that, I couldn't pick out like whether it was a stop motion or practical.
So yeah, they said it's all good.
So the loader, there's a bodybuilder inside the loader behind Ripley.
So there's there's a bodybuilder moving it around and she's just sitting on top of this
guy basically moving it all around.
And there are hydraulics and there were there were strength.
But you're right, when you watch the film, it's a pretty damn convincing combat sequence
between a human in a hydraulic loader against this gigantic queen alien.
And what a what a scene.
What a what a climax, you know?
Yeah, it was so good.
And yeah, like in in modern stuff, I feel like they have a little bit more choreography,
like moving around, like getting thrown across the room or whatever, having more of that.
But having like a fight that's so up close and personal and having the loader was a stroke
of genius because it's grabbing the alien and pulling it in close, like keeping it a
close quarter fight.
Like I thought that was beautifully done.
And then when I was man, I want to do so much like like such a deep dive into this movie.
I want to know how they shot the scene of her falling into the pit because that looked
real.
I was like, holy shit.
I think that was miniatures.
If memory serves that it was a miniature of her in the loader falling down into the into
that like air, it was like a pit, but it was the the final doors for the air lock.
So I'm pretty sure that was a miniature.
And they built a workable, almost marionette of the Queen alien, especially when she's
sitting when she's sitting perched on her egg sack or the what you call it an ovula.
Yet you said the right word for it.
I'm not remembering it now.
But yeah, the practical effects in this are pretty epic.
And just in keeping with part of your discussion from your podcast on alien, the budget for
this was eighteen point five million dollars.
OK, adjusted to today's dollars, only fifty three million bucks.
I mean, that's nothing, nothing to get this type of visual.
And action, this isn't like a single shot of us still like this is all the high action.
You know, he modified the aliens.
Remember, in the first film, the alien head was super smooth.
In this movie, there's like segments on it.
And these things would like jump from wall to wall.
They would come racing down shafts.
And I mean, the aliens in this movie were extremely mobile, whereas in the first film,
the alien was rather stiff.
Right.
I think you said it, you both said it.
He looked like a guy in a suit.
This it looked like aliens.
They were moving kind of weird and it freaked you out.
You know?
Yeah.
Like I said, James Cameron, like he's a master at this kind of stuff.
Like he he it's almost it's elegant what he does, like what he's able to pull off and
how he's able to push any sort of effect to its absolute limit and make it look incredible.
Like if there's anything that James Cameron's movies are, they're timeless.
Yeah.
He I can't think of a single before I say that, let me look up his IMDb.
The abyss.
True lies.
He did Terminator two, another unbelievable sequel.
Yeah.
His first movie was Piranhas two, which is like not a movie to start with.
Yeah.
It's not a movie that gave us a clue that this guy was going to become a pretty illustrious
film director.
Of course, the Avatar movies.
Titanic.
That movie was a blockbuster.
Oh yeah.
Just the stuff that I have seen.
He like not nothing I've seen of his has been bad.
Like at all.
Like none of it.
And it ages super well.
Like I've seen I've I've seen true lies.
I've seen parts of the Terminator, like something like the important parts of Terminator.
You what?
I've seen the important parts.
Like a lot of like the cool action sequences of that.
And that's aged pretty well.
So like, yeah, I feel comfortable saying that his movies are fairly timeless.
So obviously some stories are better than others, but the effects wise, like he can't
be beat.
Yeah.
He he I think you said it perfectly a second ago.
He's able to squeeze the maximum impact for whatever effect he's trying to get.
And sometimes it's a real simple solution, like just playing something in reverse.
Like I said, like to get that thing to jump at the camera, like it's jumping on Ripley's
face.
He just pulled it from a fish.
You know, he pulled it from a wire and then reversed it.
Oh, another scene where he did that.
Remember when they're retreating to the APC?
And that first battle with the aliens.
There's a scene where an alien jumps at the door and it's like leaning in and Hicks goes
eat this and he shubs the shotgun in the mouth and shoots the head out and spits out more
acid.
They said they practiced that like six times and Hicks or the actor could not get that
damn shotgun to hit the mouth.
He kept hitting the head.
So Cameron's like they're like so they told James Cameron, he's like, oh, start with it
in the mouth and rip it out.
We'll just put it in reverse.
So you're right.
He get, he solves the problem with practical effects and you're right.
It's an art form.
Man.
Yeah.
Affects wise, I close to no issues with this.
I am at a solid 96.
This holds up so well.
Like the only thing I'm even going to kind of ding it for is maybe like some of the space
stuff.
Like, like it looked a little goofy.
I was like, I was blown away when they were flying out of the atmosphere of that, that
planet that when the nuclear explosion went off, like that looks awesome.
You know how he did that with cotton and a lead light.
I'm not joking.
Cotton.
Wow.
So yeah.
So that's what I'm saying.
Like you were just talking and I was like, man, and while you were saying that, I was
like, yeah, you're right.
He does some real basic shit.
And yet when you put it all together, like that looked like a nuclear explosion.
It was real bright.
And I think Bishop's reaction, he like flung his head for it.
He was really reacting to this impact wave.
But yeah, when I, I could tell by the way you read, I reacted the same way.
I was like, what?
Cotton?
Like, I was like, oh man, you shouldn't be able to do that with cotton.
Like that, it almost sounded like something I would come up with with my buddies as kids.
He's like, that's going to work.
So how much did that cost?
Probably not a lot.
And you would never know.
It looks like a, it looks like a mushroom cloud on a, on a distant world.
I know.
I mean, in 1986, he could accomplish that with a fricking desk lamp, a desk lamp and
a, like a dollar pillow.
Totally.
Yeah.
Oh, that was nuts.
Yeah.
With the budget he had, it's actually a miracle that this film looks the way it does.
I see movies today that have like the $200 million budget.
They're not even convincing.
I know.
And like, especially like the older one or older being like within like the 20, I'd say
between like 2005 and maybe 2012.
Yeah.
Like between that time period, like there are some movies that just have not aged well.
Totally.
And this one came out damn near 40 years ago.
And it's still like was blowing my mind.
Yeah.
And the four key recreation actually helped it, I think.
Anytime I hear about like people doing practical effects, like I feel like the budget's usually
lower.
I think so too.
Like I don't think you need more of them.
I know.
Like seriously, because it takes longer to, maybe because it takes longer to do, but like,
who cares if like, if you're, I don't know.
I don't know how Hollywood works anymore.
They like, they just want products now.
I'm like, no, like give us a good product, something that's going to blow us away.
Well, I think practical effects have a degree of craftsmanship to it.
And if you don't want to hire those guys, then you're stuck with computer animators.
And quite honestly, part of the problem with, you know, artificial looking movies today
is the over-reliance on CGI.
And it's not always that convincing.
You know, Marvel seemed for a while to have cracked it, you know, with tons of CGI and
all that mashed together and looking super convincing.
But then it's like they regressed.
And I've seen some Marvel stuff now where I'm like, this is the same company?
This is the same studio?
It looks like they've lost their ability to make it convincing sometimes.
Yep.
Yeah, I very, very strong 96.
Like I can't fricking ogle at the effects enough.
Like I could go on for days and there's going to be a whole fricking like amount of research
and YouTube videos I'm going to watch just to learn how they did some of the special
effects.
Cause I love hearing the problem solving that goes with that.
I, um, Caleb, most of these books right here, this row, it's the making of movies.
And so like you, I love hearing a good story on how an effect was created, especially when
it's so in like creative and resourceful and unexpected, like the cotton and the light
bulb for the nuclear.
Like when you read that, you're like, Oh my God, like that scene, you know, and then when
I watch the movie, I look at it and I'm like, I still don't see cotton in the bulb.
I see a nuclear explode.
Like I know what they did and I'm still able to see what they wanted me to see, you know,
a YouTube channel that I cannot recommend enough.
And I've brought it up on like a bunch of other, uh, episodes that are, um, pretty special
effect heavy.
Yeah.
So special effects artists react on YouTube.
They it's, uh, the corridor channel, but they are a kind of a small team of independent
filmmakers out of California and they will sit and like break down how movies are, or
how special effects are done.
I just pulled it up on another tab.
I'm going to subscribe and I could already tell just by looking at these thumbnails.
Um, the one that they did for the flash is a really fun time.
Really?
Yeah.
That's a really good one to watch.
Then the recent flash.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
They, they kind of roast that movie.
It can, the effects kind of deserve it.
Yeah.
But like what I love about their channel is they'll, they've done like multiple aspects
too.
Like they have animators come in, they have stunt people come in.
Uh, like all kinds of different people they've gotten to come in and like discuss visual
effects and like how they pull certain things off in movies to make it look convincing.
Wow.
Yeah.
I'm going to be watching their videos from here on out.
Um, I love that stuff.
And it's also fun to hear other people react, like you said, or talk about it or think about
it.
And you know, I know what I think.
So it's really fun to hear what other people think.
And, um, I bet I would love that channel.
Yeah.
You'll have to let me know what you think.
Cause I love them.
I love them.
It'd probably be a very glowing review.
Yeah.
Uh, and then what were you sitting at with your effects score?
Or did you say?
Yeah.
Okay.
You guys are going to hate me.
Um, because it sounds like I just give out high scores for everything, but it's only
because of this movie.
I really do not give out a whole lot of high scores otherwise, but I gave it a hundred
because I don't know what else he could have done, uh, given the budget and the time and,
uh, the, the, the, the, the level of technology available.
Um, to me it's, he couldn't have done any better.
Um, so I also wrote down a couple of things too.
Um, the, the, the, this is where I wrote down a lot of the Academy awards.
So it was nominated for art direction.
It was nominated for film editing, nominated for sound nominated for sound effect.
Oh, it won sound effects editing and it won visual effects.
So I mean, it's, it's one of the great films, uh, produced in terms of visual effects.
And I think particularly because of the action, this should have been a lot harder.
It should have been harder to mix, uh, xenomorphs in with live actors.
It should have been hard to create environments that look authentic, like a distant colony
and then a distant colony taken over by an alien hive.
It should have been difficult to pull all this off.
I love the scene where the drop ship comes down and those wings pop out and there's like
missiles there and there's this great shot where the drop ship lands and it cuts and
then they drive the APC down the ramp and then it cuts and you see the APC driving towards
you and in the background that drop ship pulls away.
I just love it.
It's so, it's what I want when I go to a movie.
It's what I want when I'm watching, um, cinematography, like this, this is what I want.
And, and, and then the sound effects of the machine guns, they're very distinctive.
Um, you know, and, and they use those things.
So for me, I gave it a perfect score, uh, which is super rare.
And I literally asked myself, I'm like, man, these guys are going to think you're just
some like sucker.
Um, it would be rare for me to give a movie a 100 in visual effects, but I think in 1986
and especially with, uh, the, the budget, I took that into consideration a little bit,
but ultimately I think the movie has held up for 40 years, which is difficult.
Like you said, I could watch a movie from 2005 and the seat, I remember I watched, um,
uh, independence day recently, and there's a few effects in there that do not hold up.
But I was surprised because I love that movie and, uh, like there's a scene, um, have you
seen it?
Oh, okay.
I won't even say that.
I won't get hung up on it, but, um, anyway, so I gave it a perfect score.
I thought that the, and like you, I am a practical effects guy, uh, more so than CGI.
Um, but I can appreciate good CGI.
So I gave this one a perfect score for, um, special effects.
Hell yeah.
Hard to argue with that.
Yeah, seriously.
Where are you at Rose?
Uh, I'm just a point higher than Caleb at a 97 and honestly, Douglas pushed me up by
one just because of the fact that, no, what, what you said, uh, I'm not, I'm not, I'm
not, I'm not, I'm not.
And you said, especially with what budget James Cameron had to work with and how amazing
these special effects not, I'm sure how amazingly look, not only in 1986, but how amazing they
look in 2024 is like a testament to how amazing he is, not only as a director, but like with
everything that he puts into his movies.
Um, so yeah, 97.
Yeah.
Wow.
Those are, those are still super high scores across the board.
Yeah. All right. Next up we got music. And this is one where I feel the movies a bit
on the average side. Oh, the score. The scores like, okay. But like, I think we brought this
up last, last time. The score for something like a franchise this iconic, I feel like
the score should be equally as, but it's not. And like, just getting to it. This is, this
is one I'm at like a six out of 10. Like I thought it was, it was good. I'm the same
way. Yeah. It's just, I don't know. This is one, like, I feel like it needs for a soundtrack
to be up higher. I need to be able to like have instant recognition. And if you, even
today, like I watched this movie today. If you were to play the alien score, I pro and
like quiz me, I probably wouldn't be able to pick it out of a lineup. Hmm. Okay. It
didn't quite resonate with me as much as the rest of the movie did. And like I said, this
is the only area that I knew that this was going to fall flat. Fair enough. You know,
I am. I know this is probably going to be our biggest disagreement. Then I gave it a
95. I love the alien soundtrack. It's one of my favorite soundtracks. So disclaimer,
I've heard this a lot. You know, I can't remember my first impression of it. And, and it's possible
that it just, it wasn't clicking. Um, but for me, I did love it. I thought that the,
the music that they played and like going into sub level three really made me scared.
I remember feeling scared with the music as a kid. He does like an echo sound, like a
cha cha cha cha cha cha. Sometimes that I thought was pretty effective. And there are two tracks
that are some of my favorite music ever. Um, Ripley's rescue, which is played when Ripley
goes in for the Marines in the APC. It's very dramatic music. It's very fast. There's a
snare drum going in it and this like alarming brass, uh, like a klaxon going off. Uh, and
then there's Bishop's countdown, which is Bishop coming in to get her saving her and
then heading out before the nuclear explosion. Those are two of my favorite tracks. I loved
them. Um, and it was nominated. Uh, James Horner aliens was nominated for best original
score that year. Uh, he lost and I was unfamiliar with who he lost to. So like Ripley or Sigourney,
I'm like, did you really win that? Um, however, I totally respect that if it didn't, if it
didn't leave an impression, um, then, then you gotta go with your gut on it. Uh, and
like I said, my discipline, I own the soundtrack. I've heard it a lot. So that's probably why
I'm so gung ho on it. Yeah, it was, it was good. Like the use of, like there's the use
of sounds was really well executed. It's just, like you said, just didn't, didn't resonate
not in the way that like other big franchise, like, I mean, obviously this is like the extreme
example like star Wars. Well, yeah. Like, yeah. Like big franchises like that. But I
don't know. I'd even say like, like Halloween, Halloween has like the iconic. Yeah. And it's
just in terms of like iconic soundtracks, like this is not winning any awards in my
book. Hey, I know what you mean. I'm not knocking you. I know what you mean. It's not, it, I,
just to be fair, I do usually prefer thematic, memorable music. Um, like when I say Jurassic
Park, you know, nobody in the world doesn't know what you're like. They just start humming
it along. You know, uh, this isn't quite that, but I still love this, this particular soundtrack,
but I do know what you mean. A hundred percent. Where are you at Rose? Uh, so I'm the same
as Caleb. Um, and kind of piggybacking off what he said about Halloween, uh, when it
comes to like movie soundtracks, that's like what I will always go back to because even
John Carpenter said this when he was writing the score for that, um, if it weren't for
the music and the sound effects in Halloween, it wouldn't be as scary as it is like the
parts where like Michael will just like pop out from, uh, from the darkness. If it weren't
for like the da da da, like it wouldn't be as scary as, as it is. Um, and so, and like
the, the classic theme song is so iconic. Lori's theme is so iconic. Um, and so this
just might be, this is probably me being biased towards Halloween, you know, favorite horror
film of all time. Um, I could probably hum that whole soundtrack off the top of my head.
I don't know about that, but like, and you know, like maybe with more viewings of this
movie, um, I might, you know, like the soundtrack a little more, but just first intention, first
impressions and comparing it to other, um, big movie soundtracks like Halloween, like
Caleb said, star Wars and you said Jurassic park. It's just, it's just not on that level.
Yeah. And by the way, I'm fully aware that my biases are, um, built up over a long time
with this film, multiple viewings, like it doesn't make my, my judgment any better by
the way. Uh, and, and first impressions are a gift. Uh, I wish, and who knows if I saw
this once, uh, you know, in my, in my, in like twenties or thirties, uh, and someone
asked me, my scores would probably be very different from where they are today. And that
could go either way. I might like something a lot initially and then sour on it over multiple
viewings. And then there's films like this where the more I see it, the more I think
I've stacked it. So, um, I do have that in the bias category, so I'm fully aware. Trust
me, if we were doing Halloween right now, music would be getting a 10 out of 10 for
me. Hey, right on. Yeah. The only argument would be coming from me. Oh, bad. Uh, I think
it's a six out of 10 for, for me. Right on. Fair enough. Yeah. All right. Uh, next up,
we got costumes. So this will include, this includes like anything that it's anything
character based. So like, like I'm including like the, the alien queen in this, I'm counting,
um, like any of the, the aliens, like all of that good stuff. Like that's all within
like cost. It's like, it's more like a combination of like costume slash character design. That
might, this was my one low score. I was so excited to tell you I had a low score. Um,
but that makes me rethink it a little because the alien, the queen alien is so freaking
amazing. Well, I'll give you my initial score and then I'll give you the adjusted score
after, uh, the, uh, I take maybe the, cause the xenomorph quite honestly is, uh, stacks
the deck, I think a little bit, cause those things are so freaking awesome. Anyway, for
the regular costumes, I gave it a 78. I, uh, out of all the things that, that I wasn't
big on in the movie, I think the costumes were number one. Um, now I still love it,
right? But to be fair, like even the military uniforms, you know, they look a little clunky.
He's got this big light sticking out of his head over here and it's like Vietnam era,
um, military, uh, garb and you know, Ripley's in like a oney with a zipper at one point
and uh, you know, I don't know. I thought the, the costumes might've been compared to
the rest of the film. I thought the costumes were much weaker than all the other visuals
they, they had. Yeah. I, I actually really liked the, the
uniforms that like the Marines were wearing. Like I, I enjoy it. Like I like that armor
look. Like I, I'm a big sucker for like the big armored look and I understand that the,
uh, like the clunky gear was just a limitation of the time. Yeah. Cause I mean, they actually
had to have cameras like for some of the stuff that they shot. I assume, I assume that they,
they had to have those for, for real, but I liked, I liked the, the body armor look
and the way that they went about like decorating it, like putting like little like graffiti
on it or like even baskets. I like her, her look with the red bandana. I do like the red
bandana. That was cool. Yeah. And then Ripley, her freaking like whole little suit up scene
in the elevator like that. I love that. I was like crazy for that. And then like that
alone, like their costumes alone, I would probably put like a seven and a half to like
an eight, like just somewhere in that range, but then throwing in the aliens, which I feel
they improved upon from alien. Agreed. Uh, because they looked a little bit more extraterrestrial
than like, that's just the basic xenomorphs and then throw in the freaking alien queen.
My brain exploded. Yeah. He was like, this is the shit. Like this looks so damn good.
It may not have, there's, I don't know if it could be designed any better. That head.
So true. Yeah. This is, this is one like those two outfits, like the xenomorphs and the alien
queen bumped me up to a 10. Like there's, it's iconic. Yeah. Like that's how much of
an impact it had on me. Like it just, the design of it was so good. It blew the first
alien out of the water.
Well, Caleb, you know what? Um, I actually was thinking about that under practical effects,
which I gave a perfect score. So I pro we're probably splitting the alien design up between
us into two different, two different categories. Um, I mean, if you, if you put that in, in
effects, like feel free to just do like the human, like the reason I didn't give like
the effects of perfect score. Cause if I would have included the alien queen in that, like
I would probably would have been a perfect score too. Yeah. I love the alien queen. Yeah.
Yeah. It's just, I, I, yeah, I just split it up a little bit different. So however you,
however you want to score it based off whatever you, however you categorize them, like if
you're alien queen and effects, like you could just do the human characters. I think the
points will translate out in the aggregate either way. Cause I have a perfect score and
then I have a lower costume score. Um, so I think, I think in the aggregate it'll, it'll
work itself out a little bit.
Okay. So yeah, I, yeah. Solid 10 out of 10. Like the alien queen is iconic. And if it,
for me, if a, if a movie can outdo, especially a practical effect, like the fricking alien,
like that, and it's like, it has an iconic look. Like I try to always like go for like
a silhouette. Like if the characters have a good silhouette, that's usually equivalent
to like a 10 out of 10 for me. Oh, that's like depending. Yeah. That's a great, um,
a tactic to judge it by. Yeah. Like that, that's, that's always my, my good thing. Like
I've given movies that have like amazing costumes and nine just because they don't have a good
silhouette about them. And I've, I've caught some shit for her. Yes, he has, but really
interesting. Oh, there have been so many times. Okay. Maybe this is like going back to effects,
but he'll give like, I swear he has a bias against Pixar because there are certain Pixar
movies like inside out too, that he did not give a hundred for animation. And I'm still
mad about that. Oh, I, um, I actually thought it was a slight step down from the first one.
Not like it, not that it was bad animation, but I thought it looked a little, a little
bit lower than the first one. You can't get the wrong can of worms here, Rose. Sorry.
And I'm not trying to knock it. I actually liked inside out too, a lot. Um, that was,
it was oddly something that caught me. I was like, huh, inside out too. It looks like possibly
different animators. Um, but it wasn't bad animation. I still thought it was excellent
animation. The movie is a blowout at the box office. Oh yeah. So anyway, we don't have
to get off topic. Yeah. But, uh, that's funny that there was some blood blood there. It
feels like there always is for Pixar films. Interesting. All right. Where are you at Rose?
Um, so I am a little lower than you guys. I'm personally at an eight for costumes. Like
I was not the biggest fan of the military uniforms. I thought they were just all right.
Because like, like you guys pointed out, like it definitely shows with the times and for
that it just kind of knocked me down. Uh, but like I truly think that the xenomorph
and the alien queen look absolutely amazing. Um, and so like if it weren't for them, I'd
be at like probably like a six or a seven. Um, but those two definitely bumped me up to
an eight. Wow. So, yeah.
All right. Last step, we got our own personal scores. So let's hear, let's hear from you
first Douglas. Well, I'm not going to, I gave it a perfect score, uh, only from my personal
thing. This is the biased Doug score because it's one of my all time favorite movies. So
it's in my top three, um, up there with empire strikes back. And I'm actually a big fan of
the movie Amadeus. These are some of my favorite films of all time. So, uh, I have to give
one of my favorite films a perfect score.
Hell yeah.
Yeah. No, no, no shade there. Like we, we, this is what the personal score is for.
Okay. Yeah. That's what I thought. So I thought I'd be forgiven.
All right. What about you, Rose? Uh, so me, um, like this is one of the best sequels I've
honestly ever seen comparing it to the first one, um, improved on everything that I enjoy
from the first and then literally took out everything that I did not like about the first,
which you know what I appreciate in a sequel. Um, it's a, it's a really good continuation
from the first one. Um, it's a blast to watch from start to finish. And yeah, so personally
I'm going to be at an 88.
Yeah. I was actually just a point higher than you. I'm at an 89. I, I really enjoyed this
movie. It, it's so good. It's, it's kind of everything that you want in a movie like this
in an alien based movie. You want something like P you want people that are competent
in your action movies. You like it had all like the bits and pieces. And then like I
said, that's just made me fall in love with Sigourney Weaver all over again. Oh yeah.
Like she's of absolute gem. Like if there's anything I'm knocking this for it's cause
it's sometimes really gross. That's my, that's my critique. It's sometimes gross. Yeah. And
it is. Yeah. I, um, I hated when they found that one survivor and they lifted it and then
then the chest burster comes out. I, that gave me nightmares also as a kid. And that,
that was, that was absolutely disgusting. And when you're 10 years old, you're thinking
you're, you're like, that's the way this person died. Like it's like traumatic watching this.
Yeah. Oh man. And I know that you guys, um, take very seriously where these things rank
out at. Um, if I'm throwing off the curve on this one, uh, feel free to remove, uh,
my scribe will not take it personal if it disrupts the, the ladder that you guys are
building a ranking films. I totally get what you're doing. We would never do that to anybody.
That was exactly what I did. DJ a long time ago. Is he just off his own friends? CJ on
the, in, in, in, maybe on some stuff. All right. So with that, that wraps up this week's
breakdown going through these scores real quick. Starting off with story, we ended up
averaging out to a 92.67. The writing is at an 89.67. The acting is sitting at an 87.33.
Uh, the character development is sitting at a 94. The effects are our highest category
setting at a 97.67. Music ended up averaging out to a seven out of 10. The costumes is
sitting at an eight out of 10. And then our personal scores ended up averaging out to
a 92.33. Wow. So with that, the final all bros letter grade for aliens has come out
to a B plus B plus high eighties. Yep. Super high eighties. It's actually just shy of,
uh, of an a minus. Oh wow. Yeah. So our cutoff for an a minus is 90%. This ended up scoring
an 89.83%. It was like right there, right there. And just to compare this to last week's
episode, this puts it, I guess, or nevermind. Let me just do the, it puts it 8% above alien.
That sounds about right. Yeah. So alien is sitting at a B minus. This is sitting at a
B plus. Yeah. I, uh, I would have probably rated some of the things, uh, last week slightly
higher, slightly. Um, there would have been zero perfect scores on any category, but alien
is also not one of my all time favorite films like aliens. Um, I love it. It's a great film.
It's a rewatcher for me every now and then, but, uh, not like this one, this one, uh,
this one, like I said, top three. So you caught me on a really, on one of my favorites. Yeah.
So let's, according to our ranking system, this is sitting, uh, do we want to go above
or below first? Let's go below it. Yeah. Let's see what's below. Okay. So this is sitting
below elf and just barely 0.02% difference on that one. Like it's, it toy margins. Uh,
it is also sitting below ghostbusters frozen empire. Hmm. Oh wow. Uh, it is below dawn
of the planet of the apes. That's a good movie. Yeah. It is below the Avengers. Love that
movie and it is below rocket man rocket. Oh, the, um, yeah, the Elton John, John, I haven't
seen that one yet. It pretty good one. Sounds like you guys liked it. I got to check it
out. Yeah. But the difference between rocket man and aliens is 0.1%. But, but that's why
you have your system. We wanted to see, is it a, is it a hair's breadth slightly better
in its aggregate? You know, that was the point. I liked your system. Yeah. And let's see,
go in the opposite direction. It is sitting above ghostbusters afterlife. Okay. It is
above black widow. Okay. It is above the matrix revolutions. All right. Uh, it is also above
light year. I haven't seen that. It's pretty good. Is it good? He likes that movie. Oh,
okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard mixed things about it, but I'm not against it. I just haven't
seen it yet. Yeah. And then finally it is above Spider-Man far from home. Far from home. That's
the second one. Okay. Right on. Very cool. Yeah. You guys have a, um, what I like about
it is it's a system that takes out just the overall score. Cause that's essentially what
most people want to do. They want to just take their overall, like my overall is a hundred.
It'd be way up at the top, but when you break it down, it gives you a chance to take a critical
analysis and, uh, see where it really stacks up when you really think about it. Um, with
the criteria you'd set up all eight categories. Yeah. Our only grouping is the, this like
the letter grade. Once we get into the rankings, that's where like some really fun stuff happens.
Crazy that ended up below and above a Ghostbusters film. Yeah. I noticed that. Yeah. Like perfectly
sandwiched between them. That's awesome. But I mean, the difference between Ghostbusters
afterlife and Ghostbusters frozen empire is literally 0.1%. Wow. So, and then, so the
difference between go after life and aliens is also 0.1. Wow. And then I like both of
the Ghostbusters, um, uh, afterlife and frozen empire for different reasons. They were both
cool and in totally different ways. Yeah. Yeah. And like the, yeah. So the difference between
frozen empire and aliens is 0.04. Wow. Like I said, our B plus is probably our biggest,
uh, category. Well, that's great. Yeah. Well, it makes sense because what I think what you
guys are trying to avoid is that, and that's why I was almost nervous about putting perfect
scores on anything. Cause what you don't want is like five, 50,000 a plus movies, right?
Cause then it means nothing. So B plus is actually a super high score because, uh, you
know, rarely does a movie deserve a perfect score in any one category. It would have to
really stand out. And, um, you know, so I think B plus is where a lot of your great
movies would stack up. And of course you have the A's. I mean, they're going to be there,
but, uh, you know, less fewer A's than B's I would imagine. Oh yeah. Like we only have
nine A's and 43 A minuses. Okay. 43 shit. And then B plus is we have 70.
Honestly, that makes sense because we're pro you guys probably wouldn't spend too much
time talking about movies you hate. Um, you know what I'm saying? Like, so you're probably
looking at movies you generally like, right. And then trying to be as critical and fair
as you could possibly be. So that makes sense. It makes sense that this is how this would,
um, eventually look on a, on a serious system. Yeah. Like are anything like, so C minus and
lower we have 24 of those movies. Exactly. It's just less fun talking about something
unless there's some general interest in it. You know, there there's some that are like
really fun to rip on though. Oh yeah. Like we, like we have, uh, cats is down there.
Which one? Cats. Oh, I haven't even seen it. Oh yeah. I've heard it's pretty creepy. Those
costumes though. Yeah. I feel if they actually would have given the animators the amount
of time that they needed, it would have been a little better. Hmm. Well, I mean, it's one
of the longest running musicals of all time. You think they would do be able to pull something
off. Yeah. So I'm a little scared about wicked, but I hope they nail that one. I, it should
be good. I hope it is. Yeah. Same here. Yeah. The soundtrack is going to be ridiculous though.
Agreed. 100%. It could be a runaway hit if they get this right. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah,
the quote unquote bad movies, like those are always really fun to talk about. I totally,
you're right. Yeah. I bet. But in as long as they're not, you still have to temper it,
right? You don't want episode after episode. Yeah. True. Very true. Yeah. We've been on,
like we, I feel like we split it up pretty even. Like there's some stretches where it's
like nothing but bees. And then we come in with like Winnie the Pooh blood and honey
and that comes in at an F and then we have a couple of a-minuses sprinkled in there that
we go through. We seem to go anytime we hit us like a C there's usually a good stretch
of time where there's like a few C's in a row. Oh, they come in. They come in groups.
Yeah. Like our last one was like Saltburn and then we had one or four other movies that
scored in the C's like shortly after that within like a six week period. Interesting.
It's fun to see how like our periods of time go. Well, you know what's weird too is even
like I'm an avid reader and I'll read a book and I'll freaking love it. It's like an A
plus kind of a book and then I'll try to chase that high. But no matter what I do, I get
like C plus, C plus, C plus. So I'm like, man, I did all this research to pick this
book out and it just does not hold up. So it is weird how these things come in waves,
you know? But I will tell you, I did have to sign off. I told my wife I'd be two hours
and we went over, which is great. I actually love this. This was a great conversation.
I had a real blast with you guys and I'd love to keep in touch with you if you don't mind.
Yeah, absolutely. Any time a movie comes up that you want to talk about, like feel free.
Like we love when people reach out. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'll follow you on YouTube and I'll
try to find you guys on social media and everything and be a pal the social media way, you know?
And then yeah, I'll keep in touch with you guys and maybe we could pick out a movie that
I'm not like not a top three, you know, something where it's a little bit more like maybe Alien
Romulus. Maybe that'll be a good one or or something totally different, you know? So
absolutely. So is there anything you want to promote before you have to bounce? Just
that for all the writers out there, if you are looking for a book on writing that's not
like any of the other ones, check out the heroines labyrinth archetypal designs and
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Aliens, Terminator 2. I really focus on a lot of heroine centric stories and I found
completely new patterns that no one's ever laid out before and these patterns can be
strung together to form a narrative arc and it's not the hero's journey. Not that I'm
against the hero's journey, I love it, but this is different and a lot of if you're a
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books are sold, ebook or paperback on Amazon or Barnes and Noble and if you do read it,
please leave a review. I would love to hear what you thought about it. Absolutely. And
we'll put I'll get some some links from you and put them in the episode description. Oh,
okay. Awesome. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it guys. You guys rock and this this was a blast
of a conversation. Thank you for being on. We appreciate it. Had a blast. Yeah, thank
you for having me on. I feel very grateful. Of course. Yeah. So if you want to listen
to any of our other stuff, be sure to follow us on all social media. You can find a Spotify,
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T public comm forward slash user forward slash the Albrows channel. Next week on the podcast.
I believe from what Caleb said that we're we're going to be doing Borderlands. I think
that's what you said, right? Yeah. Yeah. So someone recommend that we that one. And I
don't think he's played the have you played the game? I've not played the game. Neither
vice. Okay, that's why they that's why they asked us to. Okay, so this this is going to
make sense. I haven't heard the best thing. So maybe. Yeah, it's good to have not played
the game to see what that take would be. Yeah. So I'm excited, honestly. But anyway, this
has been the Albrows podcast. I'm Jonathan. And I'm Caleb. And we will catch you guys
next week. See you deuces.