Hello, welcome to Transform Together's first podcast with my bestie, Danielle. I'm Leslie
and we're here today to talk a bit about our origin stories and what we built this cool
thing, Transform Together. And Danielle, it's going to be fun today asking each other questions
we secretly wrote ahead of time, put each other on the spot. So what do you want to tell, what
should we tell folks about like our origin story together? We've been connected for a long time.
Yeah, we have been. Okay, so we do have some fun questions, but I do want to say that,
Leslie, I started with you a long time ago when our kids were just really little. And I was lucky
enough to be in your presence walking down the school hallway and watching you come down the
hallway. You were at the time Miss Giddings teacher and I was in awe. So that's my first memory.
And from there, it's just been amazing. So that's funny because what I remember about that time is
very different. Yes, we had small children. And yes, I remember walking down the hall and I
remember choosing shoes that would make quite a bit of noise going down the hall, click, click,
click, like the old school teachers, because I wanted the kids in my class to know I was coming
so that they could get their act together before I stepped in the room. So I don't know if that
worked subliminally or not for them, but that was part of my strategy. A little bit of that,
she's coming. Yes, I think it did because I heard those heels clicking and looked up. I was as I was
putting my son's coat on and there you were, you know, just a great positive aura in charge, but
not in charge in an overbearing way in charge in a, Hey, I see you way. And you walk by me and you
said hello. And your son's cubby was right next to mine. So I guess you were getting something out
of his cubby, but just your way of looking out for not only my son, Eber, but also the whole family
and taking us all in said to me, Oh, I like her style. I like how she's able to see the whole
picture, the big picture, which I am like that. And so from that moment, it was a kindred spirit
moment. And I was like, I hope that Eber ends up in her class. Right. Cause at the time I was
teaching older kids and our kids were in the younger kids class. I think it's really neat to
think about the way we, the way we've parented our parenting journeys and how that's connected to our
professional journeys. And then our entrepreneurial journeys. I was thinking today about how we're
recording this during March break and like it's chaos. Like, what was I thinking? Recording a
podcast during March break with three kids in my house, you know, but actually, I really cared that
they knew I was doing that today. Like pay attention to me. The world does not revolve around
just you people here. You three kids. I'm doing cool things too. And that's been a really important
part of certainly my journey into entrepreneurship. Once I'm no longer the teacher in the classroom
with that identity, I really have been right to this identity as in the person who builds things.
Like what's my job? I build things. I'm an entrepreneur. I create space. And part of that
has been with you building and creating transform together. So well, like who knew like all those
years ago that we would be here today doing this together and building this new home for our
professional selves and our regular selves, our family selves. Who knew, right? I'm very,
very blessed that you're still in my life and will be for a long time. So I have a couple of
questions and I know you have some questions for me. So do you mind if I shoot one question? Sure.
And it does relate to our origin stories, but like what made you create this transform together?
What was it? What was it that sparked you to go, hmm, I can do this.
So I don't know if it's conscious. I wouldn't say it was conscious at the time, but now that I'm
reading a lot about people and they're quite quitting, right? And what's disengaging people
in the workplace, I can see some of those same issues were issues for me probably most of my
working life. So like, let's say, you know, a solid 15 to 18 years in like the education sector or in
nonprofit work, that type of thing. For me, autonomy was a real issue. And so was a sense
of belonging. So this idea of not wanting, you know, I'm not a writer who needs to be in a room
by myself to do my best work, right? I want to connect with people. I want to belong to something
bigger than myself. But for me, autonomy was really important. So being able to like use the
muscles I have, which are like, like serious self-reflection skills and, you know, perceptions
about what's going on in the world and the need to be able to like make my own good decisions and
not have to justify those to somebody else, especially juggling parenting and working.
I think those things really, I couldn't have articulated it at the time. I just knew that I
didn't really fit or I felt frustrated a lot or I wasn't flourishing. But now when I look back and I
apply some of those concepts that everybody's talking about, right? Workplaces work best these
days when workers have the most autonomy possible to get the job done the way that they know how to
do it best. And also this idea that we do need to belong. We want to belong to something that
matters. And so those two things, I think, are definitely part of our journey. Can you think of
something else that you know about me that I didn't say in that answer? Oh, no. Well, always,
you know, you always, I think that what I, what I most like about you is you really know yourself
so well. So what you just said to me really, really makes my heart patter. And something
else I know about you though, is that this business of wanting to belong and needing a place to
to flourish with flair. I think that you've always, even before, even before we started this business,
you're always looking at what mindset was about all the time. And you drew that out in people.
And this is why I think you're such a good builder. And, and I think probably why it draws you,
it drew you in like, okay, actually, I could build a business, because I already have the mind
structure, the mind wireframe in my mind about how that should go. So using those skills, those
autonomous skills, and that so resonates with me too. You, you, mindset really does matter for you,
it really does. And you make you make us all think about that all the time. And so,
yeah, what you said really resonated with me. And that's one of our, that's one of our things,
right? Mindset. One of our shared values, right? Mindset is one of our shared values. So another one
is something that we have learned on the journey. And that is around self advocacy. So this idea that
not only do we have particular mindset about how we approach problem solving, or how we think about
the world around us, we have this understanding that it's no good to anybody if I can't communicate
that for myself, right? No one can make my mind as much as I think they just should. They get right.
So that ability to articulate or advocate for myself, but what I see in you in your career is
that ability that you developed to be an advocate for yourself and your own journey, and then how
you have applied that in jobs and roles, where maybe that wasn't even asked of you. Like,
nobody actually cared about that. And you were doing it before it was a buzzword, right? Yeah.
So do you think you could tell me, I don't know, maybe about a time when you remember being a real
advocate, or sorry, like helping someone become a self advocate, that idea that you knew how to do
that for you. And then like, you know, you must, it just oozes out of you. So maybe not even
consciously remember, but like, yeah, thank you for thank you for that. I think that just being
who I am, and the life experiences that I've had, you know, I've had to self advocate all the time.
And I don't mind it. It's the that's that's what you have to do as a human being as a contributing
person, right? But but in the recent years, realizing that there have been many instances
of microaggressions against me that I wasn't even aware of at the time, but like, all of a sudden,
I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that happened. And how did I get myself out of that? You know? And that is
that's that muscle of, oh, well, that's not good enough for me. So why would it be good enough for
you? And, and I think that translates to really well to counseling and to supporting people who
are trying to figure out, you know, how to how to get around their pay points, or how to, you know,
figure out how to deal with loss is being able to be in touch with what what it is that I actually
need to, to get through and or make a difference. Knowing that and then teaching other people what
it is they need or want, and then figuring out a path how to do that, you know? And so, yeah,
that's, that's what I think about self advocacy. And you're right, I don't really think about it
too often. I just, just do it. Yeah. And it's cool that the thing we've built by transformed
together as our company allows you to use that superpower with your clients. But it also allows
you to use that superpower with other practitioners that we bring on, right, to help people explore
what their values are, what kind of work they want to do their own understanding of mindset and
autonomy. You're like, you know, the clinical director, not just of, you know, the clients we
serve, but, you know, of our team as a whole, right? In that way, yeah, what gets you excited
about that kind of work? I was just gonna say that really makes me excited. When someone is able to,
when a practitioner or client or family member friend is able to come up against something
that's challenging, something that they weren't expecting, something that's hard, something that
frustrating, they come up against it, but they're able to see past it and think of the
possibilities at that moment that people are able to see that, whoa, that makes me excited,
because then I can see that they have hope and are able to use that hope to drive even that,
that one little glimmer of, oh, I can see past it. That's the magic stuff. So that makes me really
excited. And when we have one practitioner who's joined us, Brittany, who we'll talk about,
who will join us later. When I, when we first met her, and I could see that she wanted to do,
do some fantastic work on top of the work she was already doing. And she could see on the other
side, this is where I want to go, but I don't know how to get there. I was like, oh, yes, I know that
feeling. And me too, I feel that some days. But if I know, if I see, feel that glimmer of hope,
and you see that glimmer of hope, then we together, like, for sure together, we can make it happen,
for sure. So that's kind of what we did for each other, right? We took that face together and said,
okay, well, if we, we can see what we can each build for ourselves in terms of work. So, you
know, for folks at home, right, like I mostly focused on educational consulting. So working
with families whose kids need support, mostly in the public school system. And I also
love to work with groups, sort of an extension of my teaching, but is more about getting out of the
way so that groups can help, or sorry, getting out of the way so that groups can solve problems that
they need to together. But as we all know, from group work, that's never easy in a group. So when
I say get out of the way, what I really mean is create that space, right? Build the space, build
the process, so that a group can come to the answer they need to come to the answer they need
to come to the answer they need to whether it be strategic planning or designing a new program or,
you know, any of those things. So those are the two main areas of work that we could see that I
would really continue to flourish if we could create a business where I could do that. And then
we created this space as well for you to be able to provide clinical counseling. But we like uncovered
this other cool thing, right, which is the helping other practitioners do what we did, because we
didn't realize until afterwards that it's actually pretty unique, that we sort of created this for
ourselves. And we have that vision. Do you think, can you remember that sort of aha moment where,
where it kind of came to you like, wait a second?
It's good that you asked me that question, because it kind of, it was, honestly, it was
after we started thinking about asking Brittany if she would be interested. And around the same time,
we were thinking about marketing, but we didn't know what we wanted to do about it. And somehow,
as we were talking with Brittany and trying to figure out what the best way to support
her business, we started, I think we started writing some things down about our values and
how they apply to our everyday, how we live by them and work by them every day. And out of that
popped out a bit of a structure from that. And, and I remember as we were getting, we were,
you know, looking at what we were going to do for, for marketing and that sort of thing.
And I remember you and I talking in, in my, in my office slash studio slash storage room area of my
house. And we were talking together and you said, I can see that we, I can see we have a way about us,
a thing that we do. And that stuck with me. It stuck with me. And I was like, you know,
what is this thing that we do? Why, why does it work so well? And what is it that, that, that
Leslie and I can offer to other people together? So, so, you know, there's this thing that we do
stuck with me. And then, so then, you know, you encouraged me as you always do to write something
down. And so I did and together through writing and discussions with you figured out that, Hey,
we, I want other people to feel this feeling of, of, of freedom, of, of being able to go back
and take the idea that you've always had, that you've always wanted to explore and actually sit
down and really explore it to the point of actually doing it. And taking that, that feeling of, of a
dream and making it actually, you know, come to fruition in a way that supports. Now, both of you
and I are really involved in our communities, do some volunteer work, one, our, our, our, our, our
communities to grow. God bless you. You're doing all of the hockey association stuff. I could never
do it. I could never do it. And I am immersed in community theater and love it. But we're busy
growing those two communities with the hope that our own community where we live in the East End
actually gets, gets better for our kids and for ourselves. And we know, I know for myself that
doing that one by one practitioner by practitioner or client by client actually really does work.
Cause that's how you, you build community is making those connections. So, um, yeah, that's it. That
was a great question. I'm like, Oh wow. Yeah. We, what is that thing we do? And it's, it's opening
up other people's minds to their possibilities and their dreams. But also there's a, there's a,
don't you find there's a little thing that because you and I've been sort of through the wringer
professionally, um, that, you know, there's a, there's a, that period of disenchantment that
we've each experienced. Certainly my, I experienced with, um, my last job and just not feeling like I,
I connected or fit in and, um, and that my skills weren't being used, like all of those things.
Um, when we, you and I sat down together and talked about those, you know, those things that
we weren't using that we wish we could, like, it turns out it all comes down to who our value,
our set of values, who we get to work with every day, um, and who, who are the people that, uh,
we get to influence and who are we influenced by internally all the time. So, um,
yeah, that's the secret sauce right there. I really like the point that you made there at the end.
This is the part that's really, um, it helps me to know that we're on the right tracks with the
long haul and that is that we are interested in who is going to shape us. Like, I'm not sure in
every job I've ever worked that I looked around and thought, Oh, I'm so excited that my career
journey is going to be shaped by you over there and you over there. I know that was never,
never something that occurred to me rightly or wrongly. It never occurred to me. And so
that's really been baked in to our conversations with new people that, that we might work with is,
you know, how exciting are these possible practitioners in terms of shaping us? So like,
I, I really want my professional practice to be shaped by people who are outside my own domain.
Right. I want to live that intersectional identity where I'm not just shaped by, you know,
educational theory, or I'm not just shaped by, you know, principles of good facilitation. Um,
I want to be that ultimate generalist. And to me, bringing people around the table who have,
um, who have experience from whole different perspectives, um, and, and, and, and, and, and,
and perspectives, whether living professional experience is really one of the great joys of
choosing who we work with. Like we get to choose because not because they're all like us, but
because, um, we share a value with them that they're going to shape us. Um, that happens. Um,
we'll chat more when we connect with Brittany on, on our podcast, but that's one of the things we
talk about is that that process of being shaped by other people at the same time, right. It's
helping them be, uh, their way forward. So we have a really cool logo for our business
and, um, hand drawn, hand created, um, early in our business life and our entrepreneurial journey.
And at the time we knew a lot about, um, why we wanted our logo, which is a tree for those of you
who have seen it, not just any tree, a very special tree, Danielle, but we didn't necessarily have
our business name as thought through as we did our logo. Like our logo had so much research and
development that went into and, and great questions and insights and trying to capture as all art
tries to do, trying to capture, right. A real spirit. Um, and our business name was honestly
a placeholder. Like I remember it being an active placeholder until we figure out what we're going
to call ourselves. Just love that we have never wondered what the name should be. Otherwise,
transformed together has turned out to be exactly what we are interested in doing, um,
with ourselves together as entrepreneurs, with our clients, um, helping practitioners do that with
their clients, um, and shaping the community. So I kind of think that that's a cool part of our
origin story is that we're both so over intentional in our logo design and totally unable to name
ourselves. But it's so reflects us, right. That logo, because it's a tree and, and we're all about
like finding a place to a sustaining a place to learn and grow together. Like that's what we're
all about. And the tree, which has the two types of trees, it's a sort of a nice blend of the two
kinds of trees that Leslie and I like, um, a beautiful birch tree and a beautiful maple tree
growing together. But, um, more importantly, it's the roots and, uh, that we, that, that we really
enjoy about the logo. And I think we, we liked that the roots because we both see how when, when, uh,
when people or families or communities have solid roots, they know who they are, they know their,
their history, um, and they know how they interconnect that, that, uh, level of, uh, of solid
foundation is what brings up the, the, uh, the strengths of, of the community or the strength of
the tree, just like a tree and, uh, and bears good fruit. Um, so it's, it's all, it is all about the
roots and how the, the, you know, um, how people are able to draw each other in and connect and,
um, and recognize each other's differences, um, but still to come together to, to grow something
together. And there's a little piece of me that, you know, is a, is a gardener. I like to call
myself gardener of souls and you're a builder. So it's a, it's a lovely combination of, of those
two things. I don't have a segue into another question. You do. I wanted to ask you about
niches, uh, because you and I have specific niches and I think that's what really helped us
in the beginning. Cause both of us had an idea in our mind about what we wanted to do. You had been
doing tutoring business, uh, before me for a few, several years before me and quite successful in
connecting with, with, uh, with families out, uh, out in, uh, in the world, um, offering them,
but you could see a need for some, for maybe other things or other supports. And, and, and so that's
why you, you tapped on my shoulder to think about coming on and offering some of the families, some
counseling and therapy services, which was lovely. But I wanted you to, can you talk to me a little
bit about why you think niche having a specific niche is so important and you know, maybe, you
know, why it worked out so successfully for the two of us to our niches to, to, to come together?
I think one of our values, um, is authenticity, right? So this idea that you don't have to be
everything to everybody, which is like liberating statements, right? For us to be able to say,
I don't, I don't have to be everything to everybody. Um, I don't have to be everybody's cup of tea.
I don't have to be a good fit for everybody. I have to know who I am and I have to know
who I can serve well. And that does come with experience and it comes with some practice,
right? And it comes with some, some fails as well. Yeah. But the idea that our, our niche for who we
serve in the community comes out of who we truly are, um, uh, not just as practitioners, but who we
are as people, right? So who do we, not only who do we have a soft spot for or curiosity for or
an interest in, but in our own experience, who have we made the biggest impact on? And, um,
that really, I think it's, it's like an intersection of our, of our authenticity, of, um, our ability to
really learn from experiences working, uh, with different types of clients. Um, and also to be
focused. So we've been focused not on marketing to everyone actually, right? We've been running a
business already for years with no marketing. Why is that? Because we've really known who we want to
work with. Um, and you know, word of mouth, when you're good at working with a certain type of
person, they tell other people. So that has been really important to, to the core of our business,
this idea that not everybody needs to know you. Yes. In fact, most people don't need to know you
because you're not most people's cup of tea. You won't be a good fit for everyone. And you don't
need to be what you need to be is exceptionally good, stellar, sparkly, fabulous with the people
who, who are your niche clients. And so for me personally, I feel like I have, I have a lot of
niches, right? When I work in, in facilitation, my heart is really in nonprofit communities and
volunteer communities where they're working in groups and they don't even get paid to work in a
group. Like group work is hard and they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They want
to make a difference and be able to work in a facilitator capacity in that type of environment.
It's just thrilling because you can make such an impact by creating a community that's going to
have an impact by creating great, great process and great space to help a group get what it needs to
get done often. Yeah. Right. And, and with clients, with, with families, I mean, I'm really
interested in the families who are wondering, the curious families, they're not, it's not out of
anxiety that they're wondering that or trying to figure out what's, what their kid needs or what's
best for their kid. It's because they're genuinely curious. So often folks who spend time talking
with other parents, you know, asking each other, being vulnerable about how hard it is to know what
the right thing to do is. Like the kind of parents that I tend to get along with when I'm out in the
world, parenting my own kids, you know, there's often kindred spirits who are just, we're doing
the best we can, we want the best outcomes and we have a sense of feeling humble about the fact that
every kid is different and we don't know and we need our community to help us figure out, you know,
these mysterious little children, children packages, right, that arrive with no instruction. So
that would be, you know, where I feel my heart is. And then I just love the idea of helping
practitioners or people who've been in jobs that, that it hasn't been satisfying. I mean,
if we can help two or three or a hundred or it doesn't matter, but getting people from feeling
unstuck to being able to see a possible future and to leverage their own authenticity, their own
ability to self-advocate, their mindset to create something like what we've created, whether it's
with us, transformed together or on their own out in the world. I mean, like there's nothing like it.
It's just so exciting. So I think, yeah, niche is a really important part of what has made us very
successful. I really like how you described your niche and I'm drawn to it in part because I get
to work with some of the same families. We get to collaborate on some of those, those same families
and same parents and same issues, but also because the curiosity piece, the playfulness is really,
really important. Something you didn't mention is diversity. And one of the things I like about
your client fan is like very diverse kind of mix of clients that you've worked with over the years
and families with interesting and challenging backgrounds from all over the world, all over
the city. Like that just an interesting, oh, you know, I never thought of it like that. I need to
re-jig my mind to thinking of it with that lens, those families. Yeah, you've brought a lot of those
to me and I thank you for that. It has allowed me to think of my clinician skills and the way I see
the world, not only for my clients, but for my family in a different light. And that's all because
of that openness to diversity and openness and playfulness and curiosity. So, yeah, you're just
amazing with that, with families like that. I had one other question and it relates back to something
you said earlier and that is about how you help groups get out of their own way. And this is,
I wondered if you could tell me about what fires you up about that work, that specific work,
your facilitation work and getting out of groups own way or showing them a path to getting out of
their own way. It feels like I have to do my recertification in that moment. Quick, think!
But you'll be prepared. My professional recertification, yes. So,
okay, the real answer is I often think I know what a group just needs to do. Like if everybody
would just stop and let me boss them around, it's like my inner four-year-old, just listen to me now,
you do this, you do this, and you do this. Lo and behold, adult life has turned out that being your
best four-year-old self does not help anybody in the world, right? So what other option is there?
And for me, it's about understanding that someone has to be tasked with creating the space and
holding the space towards the goal because everybody else in the room is doing the important work
or the important task. So we used to think of it like when we did group work in school,
like, oh, someone will be the recorder and someone will be the timekeeper and someone will be,
but we never think who's going to be the process facilitator, who's going to decide on which,
like how we're going to get from where we are, where we need to go, and you know, how
we tend to just sit down as a group and expect that the how will either be clear to everybody
from the outset because there's an inner four-year-old somewhere telling people how to do it,
and people have not bought in. And so that is a huge challenge I see in groups. And then you get
disengagement really quickly. And group work, humans coming together with all of their diversity
and applying themselves to a group task is actually some of the most unique and amazing
things we can do as human beings. And yet we can so easily, you know,
and yet we can so easily go sideways, right? We get disengaged, we get frustrated,
we give up on things, we don't say all the things we might say. So for me, that idea of,
it's not surprising that we joke in our culture about meetings being terrible and nobody likes
meetings. It's because nobody's in charge of deciding on how we're going to get through the
meeting. How are we going to connect with each other? How are we going to make sure we're on
the same page about the problem? How are we going to actually hear diversity in our conversation?
How are we going to capture our results and so that we can propel ourselves forward?
I guess, I don't know if that answers the question, but it excites me. It's just,
it's a missing piece. It's a miss. Well, it does. It does because I've seen,
I've seen you in action several times and it's funny you started with describing your
four-year-old that wants to tell everybody what they should do because you have an amazing vision.
However, I've never seen that come out in a group setting and you somehow always manage to make space
for people to come to their own conclusions and own decisions and see the writing on the wall
through their own lens. And that I think is a talent and a skill. It's a superpower that you have.
And so I, like, how do you hold yourself back from letting that four-year-old scream out?
That's the thing. I have to focus on process. So if I have to focus on process,
you know, that's what keeps me from being the obnoxious participant even in a group, right? So
focusing my energy in more productive ways. I love it.
And so great that I could create a niche where I'm giving my best to the world as opposed to my
inner four-year-old. Well, we had a lot of fun today chatting about our origin stories,
about our niches, about our values, about the kind of people we hope to attract, not just as clients
but other practitioners who might listen to this and think, wow, I'd love to have coffee with those
folks. We would love to have coffee with you, right, wherever you happen to be in the world.
And we're excited to continue our podcast journey, different episodes, including introducing you to
some of our colleagues and interesting folks that we've worked with over the last little while. So
thanks for joining me. Lots of laughs and fun today.
No, you're welcome. And thank you. Thank you for, I feel like you've been hosting me and that's
lovely. So thank you, Leslie.
You can host the next one.
Oh, okay. Well, I don't care. I felt really well taken care of today. And yeah, looking forward to
having some more talks with you, Leslie. It's actually great to chat with you and
spend this extra little time thinking of where we're going with Transform Together.
Until next time.