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Hello, welcome to Transform Together's first podcast with my bestie, Danielle. I'm Leslie

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and we're here today to talk a bit about our origin stories and what we built this cool

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thing, Transform Together. And Danielle, it's going to be fun today asking each other questions

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we secretly wrote ahead of time, put each other on the spot. So what do you want to tell, what

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should we tell folks about like our origin story together? We've been connected for a long time.

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Yeah, we have been. Okay, so we do have some fun questions, but I do want to say that,

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Leslie, I started with you a long time ago when our kids were just really little. And I was lucky

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enough to be in your presence walking down the school hallway and watching you come down the

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hallway. You were at the time Miss Giddings teacher and I was in awe. So that's my first memory.

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And from there, it's just been amazing. So that's funny because what I remember about that time is

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very different. Yes, we had small children. And yes, I remember walking down the hall and I

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remember choosing shoes that would make quite a bit of noise going down the hall, click, click,

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click, like the old school teachers, because I wanted the kids in my class to know I was coming

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so that they could get their act together before I stepped in the room. So I don't know if that

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worked subliminally or not for them, but that was part of my strategy. A little bit of that,

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she's coming. Yes, I think it did because I heard those heels clicking and looked up. I was as I was

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putting my son's coat on and there you were, you know, just a great positive aura in charge, but

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not in charge in an overbearing way in charge in a, Hey, I see you way. And you walk by me and you

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said hello. And your son's cubby was right next to mine. So I guess you were getting something out

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of his cubby, but just your way of looking out for not only my son, Eber, but also the whole family

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and taking us all in said to me, Oh, I like her style. I like how she's able to see the whole

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picture, the big picture, which I am like that. And so from that moment, it was a kindred spirit

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moment. And I was like, I hope that Eber ends up in her class. Right. Cause at the time I was

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teaching older kids and our kids were in the younger kids class. I think it's really neat to

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think about the way we, the way we've parented our parenting journeys and how that's connected to our

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professional journeys. And then our entrepreneurial journeys. I was thinking today about how we're

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recording this during March break and like it's chaos. Like, what was I thinking? Recording a

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podcast during March break with three kids in my house, you know, but actually, I really cared that

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they knew I was doing that today. Like pay attention to me. The world does not revolve around

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just you people here. You three kids. I'm doing cool things too. And that's been a really important

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part of certainly my journey into entrepreneurship. Once I'm no longer the teacher in the classroom

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with that identity, I really have been right to this identity as in the person who builds things.

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Like what's my job? I build things. I'm an entrepreneur. I create space. And part of that

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has been with you building and creating transform together. So well, like who knew like all those

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years ago that we would be here today doing this together and building this new home for our

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professional selves and our regular selves, our family selves. Who knew, right? I'm very,

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very blessed that you're still in my life and will be for a long time. So I have a couple of

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questions and I know you have some questions for me. So do you mind if I shoot one question? Sure.

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And it does relate to our origin stories, but like what made you create this transform together?

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What was it? What was it that sparked you to go, hmm, I can do this.

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So I don't know if it's conscious. I wouldn't say it was conscious at the time, but now that I'm

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reading a lot about people and they're quite quitting, right? And what's disengaging people

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in the workplace, I can see some of those same issues were issues for me probably most of my

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working life. So like, let's say, you know, a solid 15 to 18 years in like the education sector or in

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nonprofit work, that type of thing. For me, autonomy was a real issue. And so was a sense

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of belonging. So this idea of not wanting, you know, I'm not a writer who needs to be in a room

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by myself to do my best work, right? I want to connect with people. I want to belong to something

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bigger than myself. But for me, autonomy was really important. So being able to like use the

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muscles I have, which are like, like serious self-reflection skills and, you know, perceptions

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about what's going on in the world and the need to be able to like make my own good decisions and

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not have to justify those to somebody else, especially juggling parenting and working.

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I think those things really, I couldn't have articulated it at the time. I just knew that I

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didn't really fit or I felt frustrated a lot or I wasn't flourishing. But now when I look back and I

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apply some of those concepts that everybody's talking about, right? Workplaces work best these

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days when workers have the most autonomy possible to get the job done the way that they know how to

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do it best. And also this idea that we do need to belong. We want to belong to something that

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matters. And so those two things, I think, are definitely part of our journey. Can you think of

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something else that you know about me that I didn't say in that answer? Oh, no. Well, always,

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you know, you always, I think that what I, what I most like about you is you really know yourself

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so well. So what you just said to me really, really makes my heart patter. And something

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else I know about you though, is that this business of wanting to belong and needing a place to

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to flourish with flair. I think that you've always, even before, even before we started this business,

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you're always looking at what mindset was about all the time. And you drew that out in people.

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And this is why I think you're such a good builder. And, and I think probably why it draws you,

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it drew you in like, okay, actually, I could build a business, because I already have the mind

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structure, the mind wireframe in my mind about how that should go. So using those skills, those

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autonomous skills, and that so resonates with me too. You, you, mindset really does matter for you,

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it really does. And you make you make us all think about that all the time. And so,

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yeah, what you said really resonated with me. And that's one of our, that's one of our things,

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right? Mindset. One of our shared values, right? Mindset is one of our shared values. So another one

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is something that we have learned on the journey. And that is around self advocacy. So this idea that

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not only do we have particular mindset about how we approach problem solving, or how we think about

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the world around us, we have this understanding that it's no good to anybody if I can't communicate

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that for myself, right? No one can make my mind as much as I think they just should. They get right.

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So that ability to articulate or advocate for myself, but what I see in you in your career is

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that ability that you developed to be an advocate for yourself and your own journey, and then how

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you have applied that in jobs and roles, where maybe that wasn't even asked of you. Like,

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nobody actually cared about that. And you were doing it before it was a buzzword, right? Yeah.

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So do you think you could tell me, I don't know, maybe about a time when you remember being a real

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advocate, or sorry, like helping someone become a self advocate, that idea that you knew how to do

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that for you. And then like, you know, you must, it just oozes out of you. So maybe not even

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consciously remember, but like, yeah, thank you for thank you for that. I think that just being

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who I am, and the life experiences that I've had, you know, I've had to self advocate all the time.

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And I don't mind it. It's the that's that's what you have to do as a human being as a contributing

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person, right? But but in the recent years, realizing that there have been many instances

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of microaggressions against me that I wasn't even aware of at the time, but like, all of a sudden,

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I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that happened. And how did I get myself out of that? You know? And that is

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that's that muscle of, oh, well, that's not good enough for me. So why would it be good enough for

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you? And, and I think that translates to really well to counseling and to supporting people who

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are trying to figure out, you know, how to how to get around their pay points, or how to, you know,

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figure out how to deal with loss is being able to be in touch with what what it is that I actually

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need to, to get through and or make a difference. Knowing that and then teaching other people what

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it is they need or want, and then figuring out a path how to do that, you know? And so, yeah,

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that's, that's what I think about self advocacy. And you're right, I don't really think about it

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too often. I just, just do it. Yeah. And it's cool that the thing we've built by transformed

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together as our company allows you to use that superpower with your clients. But it also allows

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you to use that superpower with other practitioners that we bring on, right, to help people explore

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what their values are, what kind of work they want to do their own understanding of mindset and

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autonomy. You're like, you know, the clinical director, not just of, you know, the clients we

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serve, but, you know, of our team as a whole, right? In that way, yeah, what gets you excited

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about that kind of work? I was just gonna say that really makes me excited. When someone is able to,

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when a practitioner or client or family member friend is able to come up against something

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that's challenging, something that they weren't expecting, something that's hard, something that

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frustrating, they come up against it, but they're able to see past it and think of the

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possibilities at that moment that people are able to see that, whoa, that makes me excited,

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because then I can see that they have hope and are able to use that hope to drive even that,

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that one little glimmer of, oh, I can see past it. That's the magic stuff. So that makes me really

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excited. And when we have one practitioner who's joined us, Brittany, who we'll talk about,

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who will join us later. When I, when we first met her, and I could see that she wanted to do,

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do some fantastic work on top of the work she was already doing. And she could see on the other

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side, this is where I want to go, but I don't know how to get there. I was like, oh, yes, I know that

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feeling. And me too, I feel that some days. But if I know, if I see, feel that glimmer of hope,

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and you see that glimmer of hope, then we together, like, for sure together, we can make it happen,

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for sure. So that's kind of what we did for each other, right? We took that face together and said,

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okay, well, if we, we can see what we can each build for ourselves in terms of work. So, you

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know, for folks at home, right, like I mostly focused on educational consulting. So working

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with families whose kids need support, mostly in the public school system. And I also

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love to work with groups, sort of an extension of my teaching, but is more about getting out of the

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way so that groups can help, or sorry, getting out of the way so that groups can solve problems that

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they need to together. But as we all know, from group work, that's never easy in a group. So when

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I say get out of the way, what I really mean is create that space, right? Build the space, build

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the process, so that a group can come to the answer they need to come to the answer they need

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to come to the answer they need to whether it be strategic planning or designing a new program or,

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you know, any of those things. So those are the two main areas of work that we could see that I

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would really continue to flourish if we could create a business where I could do that. And then

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we created this space as well for you to be able to provide clinical counseling. But we like uncovered

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this other cool thing, right, which is the helping other practitioners do what we did, because we

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didn't realize until afterwards that it's actually pretty unique, that we sort of created this for

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ourselves. And we have that vision. Do you think, can you remember that sort of aha moment where,

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where it kind of came to you like, wait a second?

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It's good that you asked me that question, because it kind of, it was, honestly, it was

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after we started thinking about asking Brittany if she would be interested. And around the same time,

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we were thinking about marketing, but we didn't know what we wanted to do about it. And somehow,

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as we were talking with Brittany and trying to figure out what the best way to support

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her business, we started, I think we started writing some things down about our values and

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how they apply to our everyday, how we live by them and work by them every day. And out of that

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popped out a bit of a structure from that. And, and I remember as we were getting, we were,

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you know, looking at what we were going to do for, for marketing and that sort of thing.

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And I remember you and I talking in, in my, in my office slash studio slash storage room area of my

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house. And we were talking together and you said, I can see that we, I can see we have a way about us,

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a thing that we do. And that stuck with me. It stuck with me. And I was like, you know,

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what is this thing that we do? Why, why does it work so well? And what is it that, that, that

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Leslie and I can offer to other people together? So, so, you know, there's this thing that we do

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stuck with me. And then, so then, you know, you encouraged me as you always do to write something

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down. And so I did and together through writing and discussions with you figured out that, Hey,

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we, I want other people to feel this feeling of, of, of freedom, of, of being able to go back

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and take the idea that you've always had, that you've always wanted to explore and actually sit

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down and really explore it to the point of actually doing it. And taking that, that feeling of, of a

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dream and making it actually, you know, come to fruition in a way that supports. Now, both of you

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and I are really involved in our communities, do some volunteer work, one, our, our, our, our, our

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communities to grow. God bless you. You're doing all of the hockey association stuff. I could never

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do it. I could never do it. And I am immersed in community theater and love it. But we're busy

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growing those two communities with the hope that our own community where we live in the East End

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actually gets, gets better for our kids and for ourselves. And we know, I know for myself that

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doing that one by one practitioner by practitioner or client by client actually really does work.

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Cause that's how you, you build community is making those connections. So, um, yeah, that's it. That

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was a great question. I'm like, Oh wow. Yeah. We, what is that thing we do? And it's, it's opening

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up other people's minds to their possibilities and their dreams. But also there's a, there's a,

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don't you find there's a little thing that because you and I've been sort of through the wringer

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professionally, um, that, you know, there's a, there's a, that period of disenchantment that

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we've each experienced. Certainly my, I experienced with, um, my last job and just not feeling like I,

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I connected or fit in and, um, and that my skills weren't being used, like all of those things.

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Um, when we, you and I sat down together and talked about those, you know, those things that

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we weren't using that we wish we could, like, it turns out it all comes down to who our value,

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our set of values, who we get to work with every day, um, and who, who are the people that, uh,

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we get to influence and who are we influenced by internally all the time. So, um,

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yeah, that's the secret sauce right there. I really like the point that you made there at the end.

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This is the part that's really, um, it helps me to know that we're on the right tracks with the

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long haul and that is that we are interested in who is going to shape us. Like, I'm not sure in

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every job I've ever worked that I looked around and thought, Oh, I'm so excited that my career

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journey is going to be shaped by you over there and you over there. I know that was never,

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never something that occurred to me rightly or wrongly. It never occurred to me. And so

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that's really been baked in to our conversations with new people that, that we might work with is,

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you know, how exciting are these possible practitioners in terms of shaping us? So like,

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I, I really want my professional practice to be shaped by people who are outside my own domain.

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Right. I want to live that intersectional identity where I'm not just shaped by, you know,

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educational theory, or I'm not just shaped by, you know, principles of good facilitation. Um,

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I want to be that ultimate generalist. And to me, bringing people around the table who have,

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um, who have experience from whole different perspectives, um, and, and, and, and, and, and,

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and perspectives, whether living professional experience is really one of the great joys of

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choosing who we work with. Like we get to choose because not because they're all like us, but

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because, um, we share a value with them that they're going to shape us. Um, that happens. Um,

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we'll chat more when we connect with Brittany on, on our podcast, but that's one of the things we

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talk about is that that process of being shaped by other people at the same time, right. It's

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helping them be, uh, their way forward. So we have a really cool logo for our business

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and, um, hand drawn, hand created, um, early in our business life and our entrepreneurial journey.

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And at the time we knew a lot about, um, why we wanted our logo, which is a tree for those of you

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who have seen it, not just any tree, a very special tree, Danielle, but we didn't necessarily have

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our business name as thought through as we did our logo. Like our logo had so much research and

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development that went into and, and great questions and insights and trying to capture as all art

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tries to do, trying to capture, right. A real spirit. Um, and our business name was honestly

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a placeholder. Like I remember it being an active placeholder until we figure out what we're going

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to call ourselves. Just love that we have never wondered what the name should be. Otherwise,

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transformed together has turned out to be exactly what we are interested in doing, um,

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with ourselves together as entrepreneurs, with our clients, um, helping practitioners do that with

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their clients, um, and shaping the community. So I kind of think that that's a cool part of our

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origin story is that we're both so over intentional in our logo design and totally unable to name

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ourselves. But it's so reflects us, right. That logo, because it's a tree and, and we're all about

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like finding a place to a sustaining a place to learn and grow together. Like that's what we're

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all about. And the tree, which has the two types of trees, it's a sort of a nice blend of the two

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kinds of trees that Leslie and I like, um, a beautiful birch tree and a beautiful maple tree

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growing together. But, um, more importantly, it's the roots and, uh, that we, that, that we really

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enjoy about the logo. And I think we, we liked that the roots because we both see how when, when, uh,

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when people or families or communities have solid roots, they know who they are, they know their,

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their history, um, and they know how they interconnect that, that, uh, level of, uh, of solid

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foundation is what brings up the, the, uh, the strengths of, of the community or the strength of

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the tree, just like a tree and, uh, and bears good fruit. Um, so it's, it's all, it is all about the

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roots and how the, the, you know, um, how people are able to draw each other in and connect and,

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um, and recognize each other's differences, um, but still to come together to, to grow something

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together. And there's a little piece of me that, you know, is a, is a gardener. I like to call

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myself gardener of souls and you're a builder. So it's a, it's a lovely combination of, of those

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two things. I don't have a segue into another question. You do. I wanted to ask you about

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niches, uh, because you and I have specific niches and I think that's what really helped us

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in the beginning. Cause both of us had an idea in our mind about what we wanted to do. You had been

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doing tutoring business, uh, before me for a few, several years before me and quite successful in

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connecting with, with, uh, with families out, uh, out in, uh, in the world, um, offering them,

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but you could see a need for some, for maybe other things or other supports. And, and, and so that's

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why you, you tapped on my shoulder to think about coming on and offering some of the families, some

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counseling and therapy services, which was lovely. But I wanted you to, can you talk to me a little

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bit about why you think niche having a specific niche is so important and you know, maybe, you

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know, why it worked out so successfully for the two of us to our niches to, to, to come together?

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I think one of our values, um, is authenticity, right? So this idea that you don't have to be

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everything to everybody, which is like liberating statements, right? For us to be able to say,

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I don't, I don't have to be everything to everybody. Um, I don't have to be everybody's cup of tea.

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I don't have to be a good fit for everybody. I have to know who I am and I have to know

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who I can serve well. And that does come with experience and it comes with some practice,

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right? And it comes with some, some fails as well. Yeah. But the idea that our, our niche for who we

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serve in the community comes out of who we truly are, um, uh, not just as practitioners, but who we

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are as people, right? So who do we, not only who do we have a soft spot for or curiosity for or

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an interest in, but in our own experience, who have we made the biggest impact on? And, um,

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that really, I think it's, it's like an intersection of our, of our authenticity, of, um, our ability to

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really learn from experiences working, uh, with different types of clients. Um, and also to be

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focused. So we've been focused not on marketing to everyone actually, right? We've been running a

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business already for years with no marketing. Why is that? Because we've really known who we want to

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work with. Um, and you know, word of mouth, when you're good at working with a certain type of

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person, they tell other people. So that has been really important to, to the core of our business,

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this idea that not everybody needs to know you. Yes. In fact, most people don't need to know you

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because you're not most people's cup of tea. You won't be a good fit for everyone. And you don't

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need to be what you need to be is exceptionally good, stellar, sparkly, fabulous with the people

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who, who are your niche clients. And so for me personally, I feel like I have, I have a lot of

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niches, right? When I work in, in facilitation, my heart is really in nonprofit communities and

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volunteer communities where they're working in groups and they don't even get paid to work in a

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group. Like group work is hard and they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They want

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to make a difference and be able to work in a facilitator capacity in that type of environment.

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It's just thrilling because you can make such an impact by creating a community that's going to

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have an impact by creating great, great process and great space to help a group get what it needs to

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get done often. Yeah. Right. And, and with clients, with, with families, I mean, I'm really

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interested in the families who are wondering, the curious families, they're not, it's not out of

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anxiety that they're wondering that or trying to figure out what's, what their kid needs or what's

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best for their kid. It's because they're genuinely curious. So often folks who spend time talking

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with other parents, you know, asking each other, being vulnerable about how hard it is to know what

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the right thing to do is. Like the kind of parents that I tend to get along with when I'm out in the

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world, parenting my own kids, you know, there's often kindred spirits who are just, we're doing

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the best we can, we want the best outcomes and we have a sense of feeling humble about the fact that

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every kid is different and we don't know and we need our community to help us figure out, you know,

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these mysterious little children, children packages, right, that arrive with no instruction. So

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that would be, you know, where I feel my heart is. And then I just love the idea of helping

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practitioners or people who've been in jobs that, that it hasn't been satisfying. I mean,

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if we can help two or three or a hundred or it doesn't matter, but getting people from feeling

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unstuck to being able to see a possible future and to leverage their own authenticity, their own

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ability to self-advocate, their mindset to create something like what we've created, whether it's

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with us, transformed together or on their own out in the world. I mean, like there's nothing like it.

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It's just so exciting. So I think, yeah, niche is a really important part of what has made us very

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successful. I really like how you described your niche and I'm drawn to it in part because I get

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to work with some of the same families. We get to collaborate on some of those, those same families

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and same parents and same issues, but also because the curiosity piece, the playfulness is really,

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really important. Something you didn't mention is diversity. And one of the things I like about

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your client fan is like very diverse kind of mix of clients that you've worked with over the years

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and families with interesting and challenging backgrounds from all over the world, all over

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the city. Like that just an interesting, oh, you know, I never thought of it like that. I need to

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re-jig my mind to thinking of it with that lens, those families. Yeah, you've brought a lot of those

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to me and I thank you for that. It has allowed me to think of my clinician skills and the way I see

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the world, not only for my clients, but for my family in a different light. And that's all because

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of that openness to diversity and openness and playfulness and curiosity. So, yeah, you're just

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amazing with that, with families like that. I had one other question and it relates back to something

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you said earlier and that is about how you help groups get out of their own way. And this is,

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I wondered if you could tell me about what fires you up about that work, that specific work,

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your facilitation work and getting out of groups own way or showing them a path to getting out of

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their own way. It feels like I have to do my recertification in that moment. Quick, think!

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But you'll be prepared. My professional recertification, yes. So,

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okay, the real answer is I often think I know what a group just needs to do. Like if everybody

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would just stop and let me boss them around, it's like my inner four-year-old, just listen to me now,

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you do this, you do this, and you do this. Lo and behold, adult life has turned out that being your

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best four-year-old self does not help anybody in the world, right? So what other option is there?

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And for me, it's about understanding that someone has to be tasked with creating the space and

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holding the space towards the goal because everybody else in the room is doing the important work

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or the important task. So we used to think of it like when we did group work in school,

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like, oh, someone will be the recorder and someone will be the timekeeper and someone will be,

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but we never think who's going to be the process facilitator, who's going to decide on which,

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like how we're going to get from where we are, where we need to go, and you know, how

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we tend to just sit down as a group and expect that the how will either be clear to everybody

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from the outset because there's an inner four-year-old somewhere telling people how to do it,

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and people have not bought in. And so that is a huge challenge I see in groups. And then you get

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disengagement really quickly. And group work, humans coming together with all of their diversity

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and applying themselves to a group task is actually some of the most unique and amazing

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things we can do as human beings. And yet we can so easily, you know,

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and yet we can so easily go sideways, right? We get disengaged, we get frustrated,

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we give up on things, we don't say all the things we might say. So for me, that idea of,

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it's not surprising that we joke in our culture about meetings being terrible and nobody likes

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meetings. It's because nobody's in charge of deciding on how we're going to get through the

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meeting. How are we going to connect with each other? How are we going to make sure we're on

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the same page about the problem? How are we going to actually hear diversity in our conversation?

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How are we going to capture our results and so that we can propel ourselves forward?

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I guess, I don't know if that answers the question, but it excites me. It's just,

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it's a missing piece. It's a miss. Well, it does. It does because I've seen,

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I've seen you in action several times and it's funny you started with describing your

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four-year-old that wants to tell everybody what they should do because you have an amazing vision.

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However, I've never seen that come out in a group setting and you somehow always manage to make space

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for people to come to their own conclusions and own decisions and see the writing on the wall

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through their own lens. And that I think is a talent and a skill. It's a superpower that you have.

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And so I, like, how do you hold yourself back from letting that four-year-old scream out?

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That's the thing. I have to focus on process. So if I have to focus on process,

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you know, that's what keeps me from being the obnoxious participant even in a group, right? So

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focusing my energy in more productive ways. I love it.

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And so great that I could create a niche where I'm giving my best to the world as opposed to my

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inner four-year-old. Well, we had a lot of fun today chatting about our origin stories,

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about our niches, about our values, about the kind of people we hope to attract, not just as clients

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but other practitioners who might listen to this and think, wow, I'd love to have coffee with those

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folks. We would love to have coffee with you, right, wherever you happen to be in the world.

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And we're excited to continue our podcast journey, different episodes, including introducing you to

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some of our colleagues and interesting folks that we've worked with over the last little while. So

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thanks for joining me. Lots of laughs and fun today.

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No, you're welcome. And thank you. Thank you for, I feel like you've been hosting me and that's

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lovely. So thank you, Leslie.

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You can host the next one.

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Oh, okay. Well, I don't care. I felt really well taken care of today. And yeah, looking forward to

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having some more talks with you, Leslie. It's actually great to chat with you and

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spend this extra little time thinking of where we're going with Transform Together.

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Until next time.