Welcome to the Love and Context podcast of Unscripted Conversation with Ben and Spencer.
We're so glad that you could join us today, whether that's from your car, office, home,
church or wherever you're at.
If you want to contact us, you can email us at lovingcontext at gmail.com.
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Welcome to the podcast of Unscripted Conversation where Ben and Spencer talk in an unscripted
manner.
I always like it that when you say welcome, you're like, welcome.
Get that podcaster voice on, welcome.
It's like, I'm about to announce something.
What I'm going to say is very important.
Yeah, exactly.
So today we're going to be in Exodus 7 through 12.
So if you have not read those, go ahead and pause, get your Bible out and read those things
because we're going to assume that you know what we're talking about as we come into these
sections.
Yes.
And if you haven't read any of that stuff before, not sure how you got here.
Right.
Yeah.
We've said that before, but we'd love that you're here.
But if you have no idea what the Bible is about, I'm not sure how you got here, but
glad you're here.
Yep.
I'd still read it because we're going to talk about it.
Also this is right up at the top.
I just want to go ahead and recommend once again, checking out the Baymah Podcast, Bible
Project, Aleph Beta, Rabbi David Foreman's book, The Exodus You Almost Passed Over.
And also he has one other one called a Parasha Companion to the Book of Exodus.
And I would recommend that as well.
There's just a lot of like insights in there.
You're not going to agree with everything, but it's just got a lot of good insight.
Yes, it does.
All right.
So one of the things we talked about last week is that Moses is having an identity crisis,
right?
He is an Israelite raised in Pharaoh's court.
He strikes down an Egyptian overseer, but the Israelites don't really appreciate it.
He runs away.
He's in Midian.
He's a shepherd.
He is a savior.
He's all these different things.
And then God calls him and he's struggling with that call.
One of the things that I find very interesting after that, and it actually takes place in
chapter six, but we're not, we're just referencing it, is that there's a genealogy of Moses that
takes place.
Yep.
Right in the middle of an identity crisis, there's a genealogy.
I think it's important for us to understand because we're going to get into the book of
numbers and there's a ton of genealogy things in there.
And we have to remember when we see stuff like that, it's intentional, right?
Like they don't just write these words down haphazardly.
The ability to get paper and actually write or carve things in stone, all of that was
rare.
Right.
A lot of effort and they were very intentional with the order of which they put things down.
Which can we also just say if they believe that it's really important to know where you
come from, it's also important for you listener to know where you come from.
Yes.
Like I know my family history.
I know who my parents are.
I know who my grandparents are.
I know the kind of faith that I've been raised in.
I know what it was like for them.
I also know the history of my nation.
I know the history of my state.
And there are things to know about where you come from that allow you to speak into that.
Absolutely.
All right, so this is your favorite part is that God sends Aaron with Moses.
I was talking to Noah.
That's not right.
With Moses to go and be his mouthpiece, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
So they're going to go and their main thing is that they're going to go back and talk
to Pharaoh and they have their first confrontation.
This is a very interesting story because one, if you rewind a little bit, the only reason
Aaron is there is because God sent Aaron to Moses, but God did so because he got angry
with Moses.
God's response in his anger was, okay, let me get you somebody who can help you, who
can make you feel more confident in what you've been called to.
Yeah.
Right.
Because Moses is like, well, I just don't want to go.
Yeah.
And God's like, well, that's not an option because I want to bless the whole nation.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
And so they get to the spot where they're getting ready to confront Pharaoh.
Now they've made this journey.
Side note, go back, look at the journey in chapter six, like go look at five and six
and watch that journey because there are some very interesting things that happen there.
We're not going to dive too much into that, but they get there.
And in chapter seven, you have this part where the Lord kind of renews his command.
And so starting in verse one, it says, then the Lord said to Moses, pay close attention
to this, I will make you seem like a God to Pharaoh and your brother Aaron will be your
prophet.
Think about that for a second.
Like rest on that for a second.
God is saying to Moses, you are going to appear like you are a God to the most powerful man
in the world.
Like he's going to look at you and he's going to be in awe of how great and powerful and
mighty you are because of who I am.
Right.
And it's important that at this point in Egyptian culture, Pharaoh is treated like a God.
He is considered to be a God.
Right?
So Moses is going to go and Aaron is going to be, you know, representing him as a prophet
and it's going to be like he's God to Pharaoh.
So what is this actually setting up?
It's setting up a confrontation between gods, right?
Which to your point, it says here in the, in later, it says here in verse four, he will
not listen being Pharaoh.
Yeah.
And then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment, I will bring out
my divisions, my people, the Israelites and the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord.
Okay.
Hold on a second.
Who's going to know that he's Lord?
The Egyptians, the Egyptians.
So the Israelites are coming down, but what are the mighty acts actually meant to do?
They're meant to show who God is to the Egyptians.
That's interesting because I thought this was punishment for Egypt.
Right?
So that's not what God says.
In fact, elsewhere, he's going to say, I'm bringing judgment against Egypt's gods.
Yeah.
Specifically Egypt's gods.
And we're going to talk about that in just a minute.
So I just want you to keep the father right way back in your head, but God sets up this
whole precedent.
He says, we're going to go and we're going to have a conversation with Pharaoh.
We're going to ask him if you can go.
I'm going to give you very simple instructions.
He's not going to do it.
Now that is God, forth telling on something that he knows is going to happen.
But here's the thing that I love about God.
He's always giving people the option anyways.
Once again, the Bible doesn't start in Genesis three.
It starts in Genesis one with a very good creation and God's confrontation with Egypt
doesn't start in the plagues.
It starts in Pharaoh's court where God gives an invitation for Pharaoh to trust him.
In this part where he talks about how God will be known to the Egyptians, just a real
easy relatable way that I have found in my life is whenever I see a miraculous thing
that the Lord has done in my life, right?
The Lord in one sense, we view these as plagues, but in one sense these could also be viewed
as miracles of like, Hey, I'm sending these so that you can know who I am.
I mean, that was like the day that you met me is like, it was a miracle in your life.
You knew the Lord was real.
Yeah.
So, you know, I don't like, I'm trying to think of which comeback to use.
Right.
I'm just like, you got to file through them.
Yeah.
We'll show up later in the episode.
They'll come in five minutes.
I got the one.
And then you'd be like, what?
So one of the things we're going to see, let's go ahead and just deal with Pharaoh in his
court.
Like when they first come to talk to him, like they come and they, and they address
him and Moses and Aaron, they give the first preamble, right?
And then there's a demonstration of God's power.
So there's the, the withering hand and then the, and then the staffs that they turn to
snakes, right?
The thing I think is really important for Christians.
Okay.
The magicians also turn the staffs into snakes.
Right.
This is something that I think we need to be really realistic about.
There are other powers in the world besides God.
Yeah.
The problem is they're an imitation of power.
They're not the real thing because what happens to the other staffs?
They get swallowed up.
Yeah, they get swallowed up.
And in fact, later the magicians like, they're going to be like, oh yeah, well we can imitate
that.
Oh, we can imitate that.
Listen, what's going on here?
We can't do.
Right.
And, and so that's really a judgment of the gods because Pharaoh is having this conversation
all throughout this.
He's like, he's like, oh yeah, so you're, I can do that.
So can my gods.
So can I, so can I.
It's not just the staffs, right?
It's not just the staffs.
Like you talk about the blood in the river.
Right.
The Pharaoh's magicians copied that in a bowl.
Right.
Are you quoting from the Prince of Egypt by the way, because I, is that actually in a
bowl?
I don't know.
I think you're quoting from the Prince of Egypt.
I think I am.
Yeah.
I think like Prince of Egypt is in my head.
Yeah, I think so too.
Hold on a second.
Is it an actual bowl?
I mean.
Nope, it's not in a bowl.
It says that they did the same things by their secret arts.
Right.
Oh, I just assume it's in a bowl.
You just assume it's in a bowl because of Prince of Egypt.
I just assume to put water in a bowl if you're going to do magic.
I don't.
Yeah.
That's an assumption on my part.
Yeah, so they turn the entire Nile to blood, but then apparently they can dig around like
trenches and then there's normal water.
Yeah.
So that's interesting.
Like God's command over turning the river to blood is very specific.
Yeah.
Right.
Sorry, that was the throwing Spencer out of the bus there.
But anyway, so, but they, I mean, I like the Prince of Egypt.
But they do something and then they're like, then they imitate it.
Then they do something and then they imitate it to the point that eventually like the magicians
are like, Hey, we can't do this.
But God initially just comes and has this conversation and he's like, I'm not going
to throw.
He's not throwing death of the firstborn at them at the beginning.
Right.
Cause it's an invitation.
Yeah.
Right.
God's not going to hit you with the whole shabam right off the bat because he's trying
to invite you into relationship.
Yeah.
And one of the things that Foreman, Rabbi David Foreman from that book we were talking
about is going to talk about is like sometimes God hardens the heart of Pharaoh to get him
through a situation in order to receive.
Like it's a different word in Hebrew.
And sometimes a Pharaoh understands exactly what God is doing and hardens his own heart.
Right.
So there's a difference between being strengthened and being stonewalled against.
Right.
Yeah.
Like those are different things.
Yeah.
So ultimately though, Pharaoh doesn't respond to the preamble, which God tells him that
he's not going to.
Right.
So like, that's not a surprise.
Right.
But once again, I want to point out and we're going to stress this a lot.
The Bible doesn't start in Genesis three.
It starts in Genesis one.
God leads with grace and he follows up with discipline.
Okay.
By the way, parents, just saying.
Yeah.
Right.
All right.
So one of the things that I think we is really important that we see is every plague that
comes on Egypt is specifically tied to one of their gods.
Yes.
Right.
Because you have like the God of the river, you have the God of livestock, you have the
God of pestilence, you have the God of fire and ice, which by the way is great that God
puts fire inside the ice.
Right.
And all throughout this, this thing, like God is bringing out this thing over and over
and he's challenging all these gods, these preconceptions.
By the way, I don't know that this is very much different than what God does with us
today.
Right.
But he's going to challenge all the gods that we put in our life.
Like how many times are we confident that we're like, man, if I could just make a little
more money, I could just have a car that works.
If I could just find a spouse.
The car that works just hurts a little bit there, Ben.
Yeah.
Sorry about that.
That's fine.
A little context for everybody here.
I have three dead cars in my driveway right now.
They're in the process of getting fixed.
So yeah.
But like we put, place our trust in these things, right?
Yeah.
And we're like, and God like starts to take them away piece by piece.
And he's like, no, you don't trust in that.
Like this isn't a bad thing to have.
Like of course in Egypt, in this case, they're serving gods.
Like, but the river is not a bad thing to have, but worshiping the God of the river
is a problem.
Yeah.
Cows are not a bad thing to have, but worshiping the God of the cows is a problem.
Fire ice, both good things, but worshiping a God of the fire and ice and trying to appease
them that's a problem.
Yeah.
It comes to a point where it's where are you trusting God for your provision?
Right.
All right.
Is he all that you need?
Right.
This is actually a very relevant story for us.
Yeah.
So I have a friend, he was going to go on a mission strip and he had the conviction from
the Lord, the personal conviction from the Lord that not to fundraise for this mission
strip.
So the Lord put this conviction on his heart of like, you're going to go and I'm going
to provide every ounce of money, every dime that you need and you're not to ask a single
person for it.
So he'll tell the story.
He's like, yeah, I was at a stoplight and I said, Lord, but in that light turned green
and I started driving and he's like, and the Lord just shut me up until I got to the next
stoplight, which was about 300 yards away.
And then I was like, okay, you got this.
And it was one of those things where he was like, I know how to raise money.
I know how to get money for this type of stuff.
But the Lord's like, no, I have it.
I don't need to trust me.
Part of us learning to understand Exodus in general, learning to understand the book of
Exodus helps us understand what God is doing through our lives as well.
Because a lot of times he's bringing us to Exodus in ourselves.
Right?
He says, don't trust in these things.
Trust in me.
Yeah.
You have built a whole system metaphorically in your life where you have these things that
you pray to or you serve that fulfill different portions of your life.
I'm going to take all that away and let you realize that all of it actually relies on
me.
It all goes according to how I want it to go.
Now you need to trust me and actually walk out of your Egypt.
That's what this is getting around to.
I think that sometimes we see this, we're like, oh, well, they had gods and blah, blah,
blah.
It's like, we have gods.
We have gods.
We just don't call them gods.
There are people that I know that trust in their healthcare more than they trust in God's
ability to heal.
Yeah.
Well, and there's people that I know who trust in their jobs more than they do in God's abilities
to provide.
Right?
And I'm not saying quit your job and God's going to give you everything you need.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm also not saying that healthcare is bad.
Yeah.
But those are good things.
But the Lord's saying, I'm the one who provides that.
Correct.
Meaning that if your job goes away tomorrow, he's going to provide.
Right.
Well, and so we build entire systems on this.
Right?
So let's just talk about healthcare.
Right?
Because that's the example.
And we're going to talk about trusting God in your job.
Right?
So one of the things with healthcare in the way that we have it set up in America.
So if you're listening now from America, just tune us out for a second and you'd be like,
this is a weird system.
One of the best ways to get your healthcare is actually have it provided through work
because it's subsidized because your work pays for part of it.
So right now we have a whole system built on people going to college and getting a good
job so they can have good insurance and they have good benefits and they have a good pension.
They can have a good retirement plan.
It's a lot of self production to get the things that you think you need.
Where's the trust in God in that?
It's not.
It's not there.
Right now.
Now, a hundred percent, I'm not saying that you shouldn't get an education or get a good
job or save for retirement.
I'm not saying any of those things.
Yeah.
What I am saying is that when you trust in those things for your safety, when your identity
is found in your job or your wealth, you have gods that you're serving and it's time for
an Exodus.
Yeah.
And one of the things that often gets overlooked in this story is yes, Israel was enslaved.
Right?
Yes, they were enslaved at this point.
Right?
But they've been there a long time.
Right.
They knew the routine.
Right.
They knew what was going to happen.
And the reality is even if the routine sucks, there's comfort in routine.
Right?
Of knowing what's going to happen.
Like it's predictable.
You can step into and be like, okay, I know this is horrible, but I know what's going
to happen.
There can actually be more fear, more anxiety, more stress and stepping out of that and not
knowing what's going to happen.
Oh, a hundred percent.
How many times in the desert, we're going to talk about this a couple of weeks, how
many times in the desert they're like, you brought us out to the desert to die.
Right.
And then they're like, we're going to die.
You know, like that's the thing.
Pretty quick after.
It's like pretty quick after.
It's not like they had months of celebration.
It's like they went out and then they're like, oh, wait a second.
And they're literally going to get fed bread from heaven.
Yeah.
And they're going to be like, well, but we had meat in Egypt.
Uh huh.
Hey, you're also in slavery.
Okay.
So there's that.
So like, let's just go there for just a second.
Yeah.
And then we'll do a deeper dive, I think in a later episode on that one.
But go there for a second.
And how many times has the Lord provided for you?
And you've been like, well, but it could have been this.
Right.
Can we just like, can we just genuinely ask that question?
How many times has the Lord said, Hey, here's what you need.
And you're like, well, you could have done more.
Like how selfish are we when we do that?
Yeah.
What does that do to God's heart when we do that?
Right.
So taking a step back, because I have so many things I want to say about that, but I'm going
to save for our, I just wanted to do that too.
No, it's so good.
It's so good.
And I think it's good because I want you guys to start thinking about that.
Cause we're going to talk about it a couple of weeks, like really talk about it.
And it's going to be a little uncomfortable for people that look at God and are like,
prove it.
You don't think you do it.
And you do all the time.
You're asking God to prove things that he doesn't have to prove.
Yeah.
We're asking our pastors to prove things that they don't have to prove.
We ask our friends to prove things they don't have to prove.
Some people are insecurities.
Yeah.
I work with a lot of people in their like late teens, early twenties.
One of my favorite things to say to them and, and they all, every single person I've said
it to has taken it well.
When they like start to get on my case about something, I'm like, I have nothing to prove
to you.
And they're like, oh, okay.
And then we're good.
And it's, it's one of those things where it sounds harsh when I say it, but then they're
like, oh, okay.
I understand where you're coming from now and we're good.
Now we're and we can talk and have a good conversation.
Right.
But when they're trying to pit me in a spot where they will, you have something to prove
to me, I'm like, I know you misunderstand.
I don't have anything to prove to you.
There's other people have stuff to prove too.
Yeah.
So let's get back to this conversation that God is having with Pharaoh because one of
the things that I think is really prominent in here that we miss is God is pursuing Pharaoh.
Foreman makes a, makes a statement and you can agree with it or not.
I don't really care.
I care a little, but I, his statement is he believes that Moses is told to come and bring
this presentation to Pharaoh and that if Pharaoh had granted it initially, their ability to
go out and worship their God in the desert, as God had instructed him to do, that God
would not have actually taken them out of Egypt because he could have turned Egypt.
Now that is, that is whether or not you agree with that or not.
The thing is that God is looking for, he's looking for people who are willing to engage
him in relationship and he knows if he can, he's going to change an entire nation.
Yeah.
And by the way, that's what we've seen throughout history, not just the Bible.
Yeah.
So, but they're having this conversation and Pharaoh is not having it.
Like most people in power who are comfortable, who like what they have, they're like, yeah,
it's not going to happen.
Man, if only there was something more relevant for us, right?
Yeah.
And one of my things that I find really interesting is Pharaoh is obsessed with God's ability
to control things, right?
Time.
Like being able to say three o'clock tomorrow, the frogs are going to go away because it's
not just that God has the power because Pharaoh has seen power.
He's seen staffs turn to snakes, but they can't control their power, right?
Because it doesn't originate with them.
The ability to actually control power is something that only God does.
Yeah.
The ability to, as we've said back in creation, to know when, when creating, you've created
enough and it's time to dwell when there is the flood and God knows when to stop.
Right?
Like that's something that only God does.
Everybody else is like, you asked for rain and they'll send a monsoon.
It was way too much rain.
That does exactly what he's supposed to do.
Right?
Yeah.
And then Pharaoh is intrigued and he is fascinated by this.
Yeah.
But I think if, if, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like Pharaoh is interested
in that he wonders if he can control it.
Yeah, I think there's a bit of that.
I don't think the text specifically says, says that, but I would, I would say there's
this natural inclination of jealousy of, or coveting if you see something that someone
else can do that you can't do.
Especially if you're someone in power.
Yeah.
Right?
Like you see, I mean, you see this in the political world all the time and that's the
extent of political talk that you're going to hear, but you see that all the time.
And so I think there is an element of that where Pharaoh's like, I want what you have,
you know, the text doesn't directly say that.
Well, and, and so like what that fires in my brain, right?
Is the way that we run churches nowadays where pastors want to consolidate support or consolidate
power with themselves.
They want to, they want to micromanage everything rather than trusting God to actually work
through people.
We talked a few weeks ago about like going after people who we say we're doing a service
to God, but we're actually standing in his way.
And we're like, Hey, we're doing God a service and we're actually doing everything, but because
we're trying to control who God is.
I was raised in the Southern Baptist church.
I currently go to a Pentecostal church.
So I've seen some very different opinions on gifts of the spirit that God puts in us,
right?
Because there's, those are, those are pretty wildly different.
And I think the temptation when we talk about God's power moving through us is to always
focus on the gifts of the spirit that have outward demonstrations.
So you want to talk about the people who are waving capes and people are falling over and
all these different things.
First of all, I've been in situations where God moves that powerfully.
I said, I'm not saying that's every situation, but I've been in those situations where God
does move that powerfully.
And if you've ever been there, you know what I'm talking about.
And if you doubt it, you're going to be there someday and you'll be surprised.
But the other position is what about the gifts that God puts in us with like the word and
in being able to preach the gospel and to evangelize and do all these other things that
are gifts of the spirit.
And on the Baptist side of things, we also had the tendency to try to control what God
was doing in those two.
Both of those things are a problem.
You don't get to control God.
We listen and we follow as he leads.
Church leaders, I hope this is an encouragement to you.
When you step back and let God lead and be like, okay, I'm going to pursue what you want
me to pursue.
It changes everything.
It makes your job a thousand times easier because you are not trying to dictate the
terms.
What if I told you you're not responsible for your church growth?
No, you're not.
You are responsible to be faithful to what God hands you.
Yes.
Right.
His job is the increase.
But if you're not faithful to what he's giving you, he won't increase.
Yeah.
I remember the story about five talents and two talents and one talent.
If you take what God gives you and you bury it in the dirt, it's going to get taken away
from you.
You got to at least put that puppy in the bank.
So my first youth pastor job, at the end of the day, there was one student I had an impact
on.
There was more than one student there, but a lot of them I'm like, I don't think I had
a single impact on, but there was one student that I had an impact on.
So if you're thinking of it in that context, who is the one or two people in your life
that the Lord's put there for you to have an impact on?
It's huge.
That's what it's about.
It's about being like, okay, Lord, you have me here for this reason.
What am I called to do?
And lean into what the Lord has for you, not what you think you need to bring to the Lord.
It's not our job to control God.
It's our job to follow him.
So getting back to Pharaoh, Pharaoh is trying to control God.
He's trying to figure out how he can get what he wants.
And every time he makes a small concession, he's like, ah, you guys can go, but you can't
do this.
And God's like, no, that's not what we said.
And he's like, well, you can take this and this, but you can't do this.
No, that's not what he said.
And it gets progressively more difficult and more difficult and more difficult.
But then there's this point later on towards the end.
This is right when you're coming towards the last plague.
It's at the end of chapter 10.
And Pharaoh said to Moses, get out of my sight and make sure you do not appear before me
again.
The day you see my face, you will die.
I guess to this point where eventually, and Foreman covers this in his book where he's
diving into the Hebrew, which by the way, I just can't recommend it enough.
Okay.
But he dives into the Hebrew and what happens at this point is Pharaoh just decides, I know
what you're doing, God.
I know what you're trying to do with me and I just don't want it.
And God says, okay, we're going to bring it home.
Right.
And that's hard because I see a lot of people there.
Yeah.
Right.
Jesus makes a statement to the disciples.
He says, you know, you go out and you preach as like, but if people don't receive you,
shake the dust, move on.
There is a lot of times that we are still preaching to people who don't want to hear
what we have to say.
Now, I'm not saying that God can't eventually turn their attention and not that you shouldn't
still be loving and gospel bearing and all those different things that you're supposed
to be, but there's a time to move on.
This is how to just walk away.
And it's not because you don't care.
It's because you do care and you're leaving them open for God to do something greater
in their midst, but it's not going to be with you.
You need to go to the people who are going to listen and who are going to receive what
God is speaking through you.
Pharaoh was not one of them.
At this point, he's like, nope, not going to do it.
Yeah.
And then there's this plague on the firstborn, the firstborn son.
Now one of the reasons I think that I don't, I have a lot of thoughts about this, but I'm
not going to get into the nitty gritty is I think that they covered it well with the
Bible project, covered this well.
I think that Baymaw covered this well, so I'm not going to get into some of the things
that are going on inside of the firstborn, but on a broad level, you need to understand
that this one is God actually coming after Pharaoh as a God, right?
Because it's actually, you know, power of life and death.
Also the firstborn.
So Pharaoh is like supposed to be like a God in this situation, right?
And Pharaoh's children, whoever is his oldest is going to be also, you know, God at some
point and God is bringing judgment saying, nope, that's not the case.
This is a hard story.
Yeah.
This one should be difficult.
There's like, there's some context things that once again, check out those resources
we talked about that are going to help you navigate this.
This is a hard story because there has to be a, there has to be a clear story about
who is God.
Yeah.
Right.
But even in the midst of this, there's actually grace because what are the Israelites actually
instructed to do?
So the Israelites are instructed to take a one year old ram, either sheep or goat with
no defects, butcher it and paint the doors, door frames red with the blood.
And is there, does it say that only Israelites are able to do this?
No.
Right.
So if you're Egypt and you've watched these nine plagues that have come before this, at
the very least, I might think about hedging my bets.
Like I might think about it as my bets and be like, Oh, they're going to put blood on
the doorpost.
I might do that too.
And I imagine that there was probably some Egyptians who did paint the blood on the doorpost.
Probably.
And there were probably some Israelites who didn't.
Because there were Egyptians who actually left with them.
Yeah.
And with that, with that mentality, by the way, if you see the implications of the new
Testament with like Jesus blood and passing through and Exodus and all these different
things you're supposed to, right?
Passover lamb, all those different things.
Yeah.
I've been telling people very frequently that just because you went to church doesn't mean
we'll see you in heaven.
Like there, Jesus has a lot of conversation about, didn't we cast out demons in your name?
Do we perform miracles?
Didn't we preach?
When did we see you hungry?
When did we see you poor?
Yeah.
You know, and Jesus is like, get away from me.
I don't even know you.
Like you're calling my name and I'm like, dude, who?
New phone, who this?
Right?
And.
It's like, I kept asking for your number and you never gave it to me.
Right.
I think there's a lot of people like we're going to really struggle.
No, I don't think actually the people who like, it's not really going to be a struggle,
but I think that we struggle with the idea that there's going to be people in heaven
that you don't anticipate being there.
Right?
Because they trust in the faithfulness of Jesus Christ.
Right?
So just like an Egyptian would trust in that blood to actually have the spirit pass over.
Right?
Some people trust in the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, even if they're not necessarily a
member of the community.
But they do trust the faithfulness of Jesus Christ.
And in those people, they're still going to find themselves in the kingdom of heaven.
And there are going to be other people who are part of the community who don't actually
trust the faithfulness of Jesus Christ.
They don't actually trust the blood of the lamb and they never actually paint their board
or posts because they're like, this is ludicrous.
And guys, I'm just concerned because there are a lot of people who I see following a
religion and not a relationship.
They got in the community, but they have not dipped the reeds in the blood.
It's so hard to watch because like when you're sitting on the outside watching it, you're
like, man, God has so much for you.
And you are sitting there squabbling about something that doesn't matter.
God has so much for you.
And if you just stepped back and said yes to what he has for you, if you just step back,
saw what you're doing and leaned into what he has for you, it would change yourself.
It would change the community around you and everybody you come in contact with.
So in the plagues and this confrontation between Pharaoh and Moses and God, what are our big
takeaways?
I think one of the big ones is God wants everyone.
And he's going to be relentless in that pursuit.
He is.
He's not going to hold back on coming after you.
He's going to do it lovingly.
He's going to be gentle about it.
I can guarantee you he's going to do those two things.
Outside of that, I'm not going to put him in a box.
I can guarantee you he's going to be loving and he's going to be gentle towards you.
So there's the bridge of that song, Reckless Love, which is very controversial, but I'm
going to quote from anyways, where it says, there's no shadow.
You won't light up mountain.
You will climb up coming after me.
There's no wall.
You won't kick down.
Lie.
You won't tear down coming after me.
Now, one of the things that I really felt convicted by God one time when I was singing
that song, he says, yeah, by the way, those walls and those lies are yours.
Because sometimes like Pharaoh, we decide to harden our heart.
Even though we see we're like, God, I see what you're doing, but I'm going to make
my heart like stone.
Yeah.
I think that's a huge takeaway from this is that Lord wants everybody.
And he is going to come after you.
If you're sitting there listening to this and you're like, man, I just don't know if
this is true or if this is real.
If God loves me, whatnot, whatever your excuse is, God's coming after you.
Yeah, if he wanted Pharaoh, the guy who literally was enslaving an entire people group, he wants
you.
Right.
Yeah.
People widely uncomfortable with us.
Okay.
I'm going to throw some names out there.
Adolf Hitler, Mussolini.
What would have happened if they repented and turned to God?
I'm not saying the consequences of their sin would have gone away.
No, no.
Okay.
Right.
Please hear us very clearly.
The sin would not go away, but God wants everyone.
And if you're uncomfortable with that, then I don't think you quite understand the mission
of God.
Well, and there's actually an equivalent of this in the Bible, which is Nebuchadnezzar.
Yeah.
Not a good dude.
Like if you actually look at what the Babylonians did when they conquered nations and enslaved
people, it was horrific.
And Nebuchadnezzar was like the war conquering, I'm going to take over the world, Babylonian.
And at the end of Daniel chapter four, do you know what Nebuchadnezzar says about God?
He says that he worships him.
Yeah.
God was pursuing the most evil person in the world and he turned to, and that evil person
turned to God.
It's not even the first time he did it.
Look at Exodus.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
God is a pursuing God.
He wants a relationship with his people.
He also knows when to say enough and to shut down his kids when they're being bad.
Yeah.
So again, one of the things that I think is really important for us to understand is we
think the world works a certain way and God is not building a fence.
He is raising sons and daughters.
Yeah.
If you don't get that reference and you didn't listen to the episode a few weeks ago.
It just means you got more podcasting to do.
Yeah, and more podcasting to do.
But God is looking at the world way different than we are.
So takeaway one is that God has a real emphasis on his pursuit of people.
Yeah.
People that you may not like.
And you got to get real comfortable with the fact that you're going to be uncomfortable
with the people God wants in his kingdom.
Yeah.
It's all of us.
The good ones, the bad ones, let's be honest, most of them are all bad, including us.
Yeah.
Takeaway number two, God isn't bringing judgment on Egypt.
He's bringing judgment on the things that Egypt trusts in.
By the way, he's going to do the same thing in our life.
He's not bringing judgment on us.
By the way, Paul actually mentioned this.
He says, we do not fight flesh and blood.
Church, hear that.
Our war is with rulers and principalities and the forces of evil.
People are not your battle.
Your battle is with the spiritual.
Your battle is not with people.
It is with the forces of darkness because people matter to God and you're supposed to
love people, but we're going to fight the devil.
All too often what we do is we fight the forces of darkness by fighting people.
Or we try to make people the devil so that we can fight them.
Yeah.
And it's like, no, no, you want to fight the forces of darkness.
Don't get me wrong.
But these people are people whom God loves, whom he created, who he wants back.
I'm so excited about when we get to Leviticus and we talk about the temple.
It's going to be so much fun.
By the way, this sentence never uttered before in the history of podcasting or life.
I'm so excited to talk about Leviticus.
Oh, dude.
But there's so much good stuff in Leviticus.
We're going to talk about the temple and it's actually at the back end of Exodus as well.
What it actually means to take on the forces of darkness by being the temple of the Holy
Spirit.
Right?
It's going to be awesome.
Yeah.
So that's his first takeaway is God is reliance on his pursuit.
The second is he's going to place judgment on the things that you place trust in that
aren't him.
The third thing I would say is that God isn't afraid to curse the things around you to get
your attention.
Yeah.
And this actually harkens back to Genesis.
God didn't curse Adam, but he cursed the ground.
Right?
And then that was supposed to point him back to God.
Right.
Okay.
So there might be things in your life that the Lord's like, no, this isn't good.
And all of a sudden you might see that just starting to fall apart.
Right.
And the idea is that that's going to point you back to God, point you back to who God
is.
Right?
Don't be surprised if as you're following God, you're like, man, this is tough.
This thing is falling apart.
This thing that I took comfort in.
Yeah.
It's because God's saying, I don't want you to take comfort in that.
I want you to take comfort in me.
I don't want you to take comfort in your money.
I want you to take comfort in me.
I don't want you to take comfort in your career.
I want you to take comfort in me.
I don't want you to take comfort in your education, in your family, in the house that you're living
in.
I want you to take comfort in me.
And so I think that's a takeaway that's happening here in Egypt, too, is God is saying like,
he's showing that He's so much bigger than these Egyptian gods and He's showing that
he can actually defeat them essentially curse them for the sake of the
Egyptians seen God for who he is and seeing a God who wants them. Right. By the
way if you're if you're struggling with this idea of God pursuing Egypt Genesis
12 I'm gonna bless you so that all nations will be blessed. Guess where
Egypt is? Part of all nations. Wait it is? Yeah. True story. God is gonna
put Israel at the crossroads of the nations and one of those nations is
gonna be Egypt. Egypt is down there. Like people still go to Egypt for different
things. God is putting a story on display which we are going to partner with to
restore a lost world back to him. That didn't change when Jesus came. No. All
that happened is the temple went from being a Jerusalem to being everywhere we
go. I'm gonna stop before I get into more temple talk because Leviticus is
coming guys and you're gonna be excited about it when we get there because it's
a cool book. And let's just let's just preempt a little bit I guess a little bit.
I'm gonna say it's a little tongue-in-cheek but don't don't stop
listening to us when we get to Leviticus. No it's a great book. Let's keep going.
Like it's it's a great book there's a lot of good things in there that we are
and we often skip over it as a church because we're like okay this is boring
this doesn't relate to us today but it does it totally does. Also if you were
looking for things that are going to be perhaps controversial in this podcast
it's a lot of it's gonna come up in Leviticus. I think we're heavy
hitting right now. Yes. We're getting warmed up. God is gonna teach his people
how to be a kingdom of priests. We're gonna talk about this next week because
we're gonna be talking about the Exodus and what God is doing with his people.
And this book of Leviticus is actually instructing them how to be priests. How to
be a stronger healthier more ethical ecumenical people to put a different
story on display. Yeah. Hey guys that's the ten plagues. That's God's conversation
with Pharaoh. That's God's pursuit of Pharaoh. Next we're gonna be talking
about the actual Exodus like what happens when they leave when they come
to the Red Sea all these different things. But you gotta understand that
before the plagues happen God issues an invitation. Yeah. And we're gonna say
this one more time. Where does the Bible actually start? Genesis 1. So stop
starting it in Genesis 3. If you read the Bible as God is mad with humanity
you're always gonna start in Genesis 3. But it starts in Genesis 1. And our
invitation to you is to start your story in Genesis 1 as well. Yeah. And next week
I believe we're going to have our first guest. So thank you for guys for joining
us. Please you know check take a look at these spots. Understanding Exodus is
gonna be really important especially when we get into the Gospels later.
Mm-hmm. Because a lot of what like the Gospels are doing is they're positioning
Jesus as a second Moses. And if you don't understand the first Moses you're not
gonna understand the illustrations that Jesus is actually taking on. Yeah. Thank
you guys for listening and until next time you know where to find us. Thank you
so much for listening today. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we hope that
you got something out of it. If you have any questions please contact us at
loveandcontext at gmail.com. You can also follow us on Instagram and message us
through there. Instagram is loveandcontext. Again loveandcontext.gmail.com
or Instagram are the two ways to get a hold of us if you would like.
Thank you once again. We really appreciate you being here. God bless.
This is our mac and cheese break. Mac and cheese break. Hey do you still put
ketchup on everything? Are you quoting from the Prince of Egypt by the way
because I hope is it actually in a bowl? I don't know. I think you're quoting
from the Prince of Egypt. I think I am. Yeah. I think like Prince of Egypt is in my head.
Yeah I think so too. Hold on a second. Is this an actual bowl? I mean. No it's not in a bowl.
What is it? What's it in? Yeah it's it says that they did the same things by their secret arts.
Right? Oh. I just assume it's in a bowl. You just assume it's in a bowl because of the Prince of Egypt.
I just assume you put water in a bowl if you're gonna do magic. I don't. Yeah. That's an
assumption on my part. All right. What about where did I finish? Oh so yeah okay.
We're back. This is the part of the podcast where Ben makes a random noise
into the mic that I have to edit out. Just like that.