Welcome to the Love in Context podcast, unscripted conversation with Ben and Spencer.
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Those have been resolved.
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for that.
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Welcome to the Love in Context podcast, an unscripted conversation with Ben and Spencer.
I'm Ben.
I'm Spencer.
And this shout out is for his sister, who I'm going to call Jacqueline this week.
She gets a different name every week just because she complains about us the most.
So we're like, you get a different name every week.
Yeah.
I actually have no idea what her real name is.
And so, and I prefer you didn't tell me so that I could just keep guessing.
All right.
Sounds good.
So this week we're going to be in, we're actually out of the first 11 chapters.
And we're going to cover a brief, like I want to talk about a really cool thing from the
first 11 chapters.
But after that, we're going to start talking about Abram.
Yeah.
He will be Abraham.
That's after he's told he can't have bacon anymore.
His name is Abraham.
Like I guess it's like an homage to that.
That's probably true.
That is not contextually correct.
It's not contextually correct.
It's funny.
So we're going to be talking about Abram and just kind of like some big things to know
about him.
I think one of the things that tends to happen with Old Testament characters, right?
Because we're Gentiles, right?
Yeah.
I didn't ask you, you might be Jewish, but I'm assuming you're a Gentile.
I am.
We kind of forget that we're grafted into a tree sometimes.
Right?
And so like the story of Abraham and the story of Isaac, Jacob, and the Exodus, like these
are also our story.
Yeah.
These are our history.
Right?
We need to understand the story that we're a part of.
Absolutely.
And I think sometimes like the modern church, what we do is we try to walk on from that.
Yeah.
We forget that we're actually grafted into a story.
And so part of what we're seeking to do in the Torah series is really understand like
when we're living into Jesus' identity, right?
The identity that Jesus calls out for us, like to bring kingdom.
Like what is this based in?
Like what is the Jewish history?
Like what is this history that we're actually coming from?
Right?
What's some thoughts that we can do?
So if you have not read your Bible, I would really question how you got to this podcast.
Maybe somebody just shared it with you.
But if you have not read this section of the Bible recently, that's actually what I meant
to say.
We're going to be getting to the part.
Yeah, I think you should.
We're going to be between Genesis 12 and 16.
We're just going to cover part of Abram's life today because there's a lot and we're
going to do some really high level stuff.
Once again, please check out some of the stuff from the Bible Project and the Baymaw podcast.
They do a much better deep dive.
They do.
And we're not really trying to get into those portions of it.
We're actually trying to just take some ideas and talk about Christian living, love and
context.
Yeah.
All right.
So go ahead and pause, take a look at those and then we'll get started.
So one thing to mention here is those of you who know the story, you'll be like, okay,
Abram, Abraham, same person, right?
Correct.
Okay.
Biologically, yes, but there is a distinct thing that happens when his name gets changed
from Abram to Abraham.
We're not going to get into that today.
No.
Okay.
But I wanted to say that because a lot of times we read, okay, we're talking about Abram
and a lot of times people are like, okay, we're just talking about Abraham.
It's like, no, we're talking about Abram.
Right.
So there is a fundamental thing that happens with that name change.
That's another episode, but I just want to put that in there so you're aware of it.
Yeah.
And then it's not the last time it's going to happen in scripture too where God changes
somebody's name and they dramatically, their character changes.
Yeah.
Because identity is associated with your name.
Yeah.
Are you going to live into your identity or not?
Right.
So one of the things we wanted to talk about because there's a huge narrative shift between
one through 11 and 12.
Yes.
Right.
So we've gone from talking over thousands, hundreds of years to talking about one guy
for a hundred years.
I mean, we're going to be on Abram for chapters.
Right.
Yeah.
But one of the interesting things is we talked about chiasmus, right?
If you actually take the first 11 chapters of Genesis, you know what actually felt like
it forms another chiasmus, which is really cool.
I'm not going to really get into it, which once again, go check out the Baymaw podcast
because they have a great episode on it and they have a great chart and they made it and
I'm not going to do that.
If you ever see me make charts, like you're glad that I didn't make it.
But Genesis one is a story about learning our identity, finding our identity in Christ
and really specifically about finding it at Sabbath rest.
Right.
Isn't it crazy that the first 11 chapters, when you actually diagram out the chiasm,
it comes to the center on the name of Noah.
You know what Noah's name means?
It means he rests.
Isn't it crazy that chapter one starts with, you know, the story about needing to find
rest in the sight of God's identity.
Right.
And the whole 11 chapters, after talking about everything and understanding who is this guy,
right.
It comes back to once again, he rests.
Yeah.
Finding your identity and rest.
Man, it's so good.
It's almost like God wanted us to not miss the point.
Yeah.
And yet, where do we find most of our identity?
In busyness.
How much can you do?
How much can you accomplish?
I'm going to make a book recommendation.
We don't do that very often, right?
No.
The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by Mark Comer.
Do yourself a favor and check out that book.
He talks about how we've led busyness run our life and learning how to let go of things
and just eliminate hurry in our life.
Guys, John Mark Comer, first of all, is great all the time.
And honestly, if you write us an email and you're like, I don't like John Mark Comer,
I'm sad for you because he's a great man.
He has some great stuff.
And I was like, I'm not going to agree with him on everything, but I love his perspective
on most things.
And this is one book that I don't even know if there's audio book versions or is.
But if you get an audio book version and then you listen to it at two times speed, I'm going
to be like, bro, you missed the point.
Yeah.
No kidding.
Okay.
Yeah.
Like take your time with this one.
I'm feeling challenged on that particular one.
I literally just attacked Ben's heater a little bit.
Yeah.
So I listened to everything.
I just told him I listen to almost everything at two times speed.
And so he's literally just throwing me under the bus.
Do you hear that, Jacqueline?
Once again, calling out your sister.
You only have one sister, right?
I have four sisters.
No, 14 sisters.
Is that what you said?
No, no.
Four.
I got four.
Okay.
So now we don't even know which sister I'm calling out, right?
Yeah.
I mean, you think a lot of large numbers eventually I'm going to get one of their names right.
Maybe.
There's a couple of them that I'm like, yeah, you're just not going to get there.
It's going to be a fun game now.
This is a good episode.
I already like it so far.
So one through 11, like that's a really cool thing.
Like I said, check out the Baymaw episode.
I think it's wonderful.
And learning to understand like your identity comes from your relationship with God, learning
how to rest your mandate.
And it's not that you don't work, but you work from a place of settled.
Hurry tends to come from a place of I'm not enough.
One of the, the, the team that I work with in my job, one of the things I tell them all
the time is let's do a few things.
Well, like let's not do a bunch of stuff kind of okay.
Like, right, let's do a few things.
Well, yeah.
As that's going to have a way better impact than if we just try to do everything.
By the way, church, can you just hear that?
If you're a pastor of a church, like find the things you do really well and start with
that lean into that.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, no kidding.
Yeah.
Actually just every organization, let's do a few things.
Well, do a few things really well, and you can add things over time.
Yeah, sure.
But make sure that the things you're adding, you're learning how to do well.
All right.
This is what happens when you do a few things.
Well, people take notice and they say, I want to be a part of that.
And so then you start attracting people who have a different skill set, who then can add
to your team or whatever you're doing and do some different things.
Well, yeah, doing a few things well is, it's going to make a big difference.
And you know, and getting known for doing those things well.
Right.
And you'd be surprised how much more productive you become.
So speaking of doing things well, let's jump into chapter 12 and talk about this guy by
the name of Abram.
Yeah.
Right.
So I was talking to a fellow in our in our church.
We were sermon prepping.
Right.
And I was talking about Genesis chapter 12.
And I love this part.
It says, the Lord said to Abram, go from your country, your people and your father's household
to the land I will show you.
And I'm going to jump over your verse two and three because I want to come back and
talk about those.
It says, so Abram went as the Lord had told him.
Okay.
Where did Abram go?
We don't know.
Maybe they tell us where he went.
Right.
But God says go and Abram just goes.
Uh huh.
Which I love.
Right.
Because how many times are you working with people and they're like, yeah, I just want
to know what God's will is.
Go bring the kingdom.
Where?
Wherever you go.
Mm hmm.
They're like, well, I just I want to be able to be of service to God.
Okay.
What do you do?
I work in a dog food company.
Great.
Be of service to God there.
Well, but I really feel like I need to preach.
Okay.
Why do you feel like you need to preach?
Well, because I've got a word to share.
Okay.
Are there not people at the dog food company to talk to?
You know what I mean?
Uh huh.
No, I'm not saying that if God puts a call on your life of preaching, right?
Like absolutely.
You pursue that.
Yeah.
I heard a fast say this way.
It's easier to steer a moving ship.
Right.
It's much harder to steer a ship that's not moving.
Mm hmm.
Right.
That does just get tossed by the waves.
Right.
And it's actually, so Dallas Willer, another book recommendation by the way, which incidentally
is very connected to John Mark Comer and you can do the research as to why.
Mm hmm.
Dallas Willer wrote a book called The Divine Conspiracy.
Mm hmm.
And in it, he was talking about how we're called to live like Jesus.
Yeah.
Right?
Called to be Jesus in the world.
Now, he stops and he clarifies.
He says, now some of you just heard that you're supposed to become a Middle Eastern rabbi
and you're supposed to go die on a cross, be buried, resurrected, you know, ascend to
heaven.
It's like, you don't understand what he's actually saying.
Like you're not supposed to become Jesus.
Like you're not supposed to go be a Middle Eastern rabbi.
Right.
Our call to become like Jesus now becomes, are you a stay at home mom?
What does it look like when Jesus is a stay at home mom?
Are you a student in school?
What does it look like when Jesus is a student in school?
Are you a advisor on finances?
What does it look like when Jesus advises people about their finances?
Are you a contractor?
What does it look like?
The thing is you're trying to become like Jesus and Jesus wants to actually invade where
you are.
Right?
Heaven is invading earth.
Got news for you.
On that equation, you're probably earth.
Yeah.
But when you let heaven, Jesus's identity invade where you are, suddenly his hands of
feet go everywhere and you start to see light pour out of everything.
People are like, oh, I have to change everything about who I am.
No, you need to let Jesus become who you are.
Right?
So yeah, you do have to change, but God didn't put those desires in you for no reason.
He wants to use them for the glory of the kingdom.
Let's dispel change a little bit.
Yeah.
The most American believers I know are like, I have to change.
And I'm specifically talking to American believers here.
Yeah.
They're like, I have to change.
So I'm going to pull up my own bootstraps and be more like Jesus.
No, just take the time to be with Jesus and he's going to change you.
Right?
Right.
And we should clarify it.
Like, obviously we are not talking about sinful behaviors.
No, like don't be Jesus and sinful.
Actually, yeah, do be Jesus and sinful behaviors and you won't do them.
But we're talking about like on your day to day life, you're like, oh, well, I have to
I have to stop playing tennis.
Who said that?
Right?
Neither one of us play tennis, so I'm not even sure why I came up with that analogy.
Like table tennis would be like the closest.
I have no idea.
Like it's been at least 10 years since I've touched a tennis racket.
Yeah.
At least.
And I think the last time I even touched a tennis racket, I always did the thing where
you know, you take it and you like bounce it on your head.
Right?
And I'm actually playing tennis.
We love tennis players.
Yeah.
Sorry if we just insulted you.
Yeah, no, what I'm saying is I'm bad at tennis.
But it is like if I'm into tennis, OK, how do I use it for the glory of God?
If you're into hiking, OK, how do you do it for the glory of God?
If your big thing is that you like to cook.
OK, how do you do it for the glory of God?
Our goal is to bring the kingdom into the world on earth as it is in heaven.
That's the mandate, right?
Stop trying to stop trying to leave the earth and go to heaven, bring heaven to earth.
Yeah.
All right.
So like and and that's why I love this thing about Abraham, right?
He's like God says, go.
He's like, OK.
And he just goes.
He has no idea where he's going.
And I love him for that.
And by the way, we could we could learn a lesson.
We could, you know, like what would happen?
Like, OK, so we're just like sitting in our room and we hear God say, OK, get in your
car and go.
Americans were going to be like, go where?
Doesn't matter.
He said, get in the car and go.
And probably along the way, you're going to figure it out.
But we're so scared to be led by the spirit.
That we never listen.
Yeah.
Right.
So good.
So.
All right.
We got to talk about blessing because I this is one of the things that just frustrates me
greatly in the church in America.
Can we do this?
We can.
Spoiler alert, we're getting into blessing.
You're going to hear a lot of Ben for a few minutes.
Yeah, there's this then you're going to hear a lot of it.
Yeah.
So if there is a soapbox to stand on, this is probably mine because there are two portions
of the church that really frustrate me and blessing.
There are the point there are the people that look at blessing for selfish reasons.
And there are the people who sit around and poverish because they never ask God for anything.
Right.
We're not supposed to be either of those things.
Okay.
So take a look at verse two.
This is foundational to our understanding because everything built on this is going
to come after.
Okay.
God says to Abraham, he says, I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you.
I will make your name great, which is very funny considering the story that came previously.
Right.
And you will be a blessing.
Okay.
I will bless you so that what?
All nations are going to be blessed.
This is the story of Israel.
God puts him at the at the crossroads of the earth to be a blessing, to be a visual representation
of his story.
And that through their blessing, they're going to bless all nations.
The sad thing that ends up happening over and over again is Israel wants to be like
all nations and God's like, no, you're supposed to be different so that all nations can be
blessed.
Boy, if only there was an application for the church today, right?
Yeah.
Blessing is not a bad thing.
Blessing is a necessary component of the Christian life because you are supposed to be blessed
so that all nations can be blessed.
It's not for you.
And by the way, I think the tendency is to think about money.
Blessing is not about money.
No.
Right?
Nowhere in this part of nowhere in this passage does it equate blessing with money.
Right.
Hear that.
It's not about money.
It's about receiving and being a go between between God and the world, which by the way,
in Acts chapter two, God opens his new fangled temple called the church and he drops his
Holy Spirit into all of them.
Because now you, the church are the place where heaven and earth meet with the Holy
Spirit and everywhere you go, God goes.
If you don't receive the blessing, you can't give the blessing.
You hear me?
If you don't actually have the Holy Spirit inside of you, you can give the Holy Spirit
around like you can't see God moving around you without the Holy Spirit moving through
you.
You're the place where heaven and earth meet.
You're supposed to bring light to darkness and love to hate.
Wholeness to brokenness.
That's our mandate now.
It's not our power.
It's not our temple.
We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
He dwells in us and through that all nations are blessed.
And the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that happened in Acts chapter two fulfills two
things in the Old Testament.
One, it reversed what happened at Babel.
Yep.
Okay.
They were all talking and everybody was understanding them.
And there were people there who spoke wide variety of languages, but they could understand
what was going on.
Yeah.
Right.
Such a good observation.
That's one.
Two, it takes this blessing that Abraham is and says, hey, I'm grafting this into a church
that's now going to go out to the world.
So if Israel is a people and we've been grafted into that, then we have Israel all across
the world proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ.
Amen.
Dude, that's awesome.
I love it.
You just took this idea of confusing the languages as a scatter.
Now they all speak the same language, even though they speak different languages.
And then they scatter and the church is unstoppable because they're no longer united in their
selfishness, which by the way, I'm always going to talk against with the church.
If you're looking for blessing to be selfish, you missed the point.
Yeah.
You're buying into something.
It's just not the kingdom of God.
And if you are not asking God and you're not living in blessing, you're also buying into
something and it's not the kingdom of God.
Yeah.
You're supposed to be blessed.
Might not be materially, but your relationship with your spouse, it should be blessed.
Yeah.
Doesn't mean it's always going to be perfect.
Good golly.
Me and my wife do not get along all the time.
I can say the same about my wife and myself.
You're like, I can say the same about you and your wife.
They're right.
Yeah.
We don't get along all the time, but we are blessed.
Raising our kids is not easy every day.
No, but it is a blessing.
Man, my kids are absolutely a blessing and I'm supposed to live that way.
When I come and I participate in something, it should bless the people around me.
Now here is a question church family, right?
Are you actually blessing your community or not?
Because I think that's going to be a real tale of whether or not you're connecting with
the kingdom of God or not.
And you don't need to be wealthy to bless your community.
Right.
We just said it's not about money.
Yeah.
Not about money.
Yeah.
I want to say it one more time.
You don't need to be wealthy to bless your community.
Yeah.
I know that we have a person who comes to our group.
Right.
Who blesses me every time they come to our group because they make amazing cornbread.
Oh my word.
Yeah.
You know who I'm talking about.
I was so fat last group.
Yeah.
It was so good.
And I was like, here's the thing.
I was like, they baked cornbread.
And you're like, okay.
Yeah.
But you know what?
I was like, I know a person in that group was blessed.
Being in that group made a difference for me.
Yeah.
But it was so good, man.
Being in Jalapenos.
And I think we had somebody there who didn't even like Jalapenos.
And they're like, this is good.
Yeah.
Right.
And so what's the point of that?
I'm not to embarrass the person or anything like that.
The point is that they didn't come materially.
They blessed us with something they were good at.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
Guys, you can do that.
Right?
Yeah.
We're called to use the gifts that we have to bless those around us.
Right.
Not the money we have.
Now if you do have money, you can be a blessing.
Don't get me wrong.
We're called to use the gifts that we have to bless those around us.
Yeah.
All right.
So rant over.
Ben didn't talk as much as he thought he was going to.
He was able to move on from it.
So God says, I'm going to bless you.
And everybody that blesses you is going to be blessed.
And I also did think that it's interesting that it's the first time that God says if
somebody curses you, I'm going to place a curse on them too.
This is actually one of the first places I see God actually talking about a curse.
Right?
And it's a direct result as if you're cursing somebody who's supposed to be a blessing.
Right?
Boy, maybe hear that.
OK.
Be real careful who you curse, guys.
Mm-hmm.
So moving on in chapter 12.
So Abram, let's just kind of talk through the story, right?
Because I think people are kind of familiar with this.
And we'll kind of pull some high level things.
Once again, great material on the Bible project in Baamah.
Check those out.
They got some great material here.
Yeah.
So there's a famine.
And Abram goes down to Egypt.
Totally makes sense because Egypt has a ton of fertile land.
So there's always food in Egypt unless it's the end of Genesis, in which case there's
not because there's a severe famine.
And also, just to note there, if Egypt is having a famine, it's a serious famine, guys.
You might say it's biblical proportions.
Yeah, I had to say it.
I'm sitting across from him and I saw his eyes squint.
I was like, oh no, oh no, something's coming.
So he goes down into Egypt, right?
And so we've heard this story before.
And Abram is like, hey, you know what, Sarah, why don't you just say you're my sister?
And while it's technically not inaccurate, it's definitely misleading.
And that's all fine and dandy, except that Pharaoh is like, oh, this woman looks nice.
Yeah.
And like kudos to Sarah because she's like 60 at this point.
So then so Pharaoh, they have like disease breakout and all this stuff.
And he's like, why didn't you just tell me she was your wife and not your sister?
He's like, well, I thought you might kill me.
Right.
I, by the way, I think there's a lot of like, we can identify with that is like, we think
people are going to get mad and strike us.
And so we kind of, we don't lie, but we, yeah, we kind of, we kind of fudge the truth a little
bit, right?
Almost every time that that happens, there's an element of self preservation, right?
Self preservation.
Yeah, no kidding.
So but this leads to a problem because the Pharaoh and the other suitors gave, gave Abraham
a lot of animals, right?
And so God doesn't actually chastise Abraham, right?
Like this is all just part of learning, learning how to follow after God.
But what does happen is the natural consequence of the wealth that is generated through animals
causes division between him and lot, right?
It's almost like if you generate your wealth the wrong way, it's going to cause problems
in your family.
Right?
Yeah.
And while God may not stop you from doing that, there is a natural consequence to it.
Yeah.
Right.
And so now lot and Abraham, they're, they're herdsmen are fighting and they're not getting
along.
And there's two, you might call them brothers in a field fighting.
Well we've seen this story before.
Spoiler alert, last time it didn't end so well.
Yeah.
So what does Abraham do?
Abraham here, he does something really interesting.
He gets together a lot and he says, hey, you look whichever way you want and you go that
way.
I'll go the opposite.
Right?
This is very fascinating because in this society, the, whoever the elder was in the community
or the family would be the one who get to make that decision.
That would have been Abraham at this time.
Okay.
But he tells lot, he says, no, no, you get to decide and I'll go the other way.
Yeah.
He's absolutely the one with power and the authority.
Right?
Yeah.
In his power and authority, he's saying you get to choose.
Yeah.
And I think we see, we see echoes of Jesus here.
Right?
Yeah.
At the height of his power.
Right?
Gets down and washes feet.
But I also think we see echoes of humanity in lot because it actually says that he looks
up and he sees the, the plants and you know, what they're, what they're useful for.
Right?
And it's the same word there that is used for Eve when she looks upon the fruit.
Right?
And she's like, how can I turn this for my favor?
And so lot doesn't learn the lesson of Abraham and he says, well, I'm going to take the better
part for myself.
Yeah.
Lot hadn't had an ability here, had a chance here, right?
To follow the example of Abraham.
Is an interestingly enough after this story, interestingly enough in the story after lot
separates from Abraham, he goes and does what?
He settles.
Yeah.
In a place where we're familiar with is not going to end well.
Sodom, Sodom.
Right?
A lot goes and he settles.
Abraham goes and keeps wandering.
Yeah.
No, it's, it's, it's, there's biblical themes that are happening over and over again.
And we're pointing these out because we want you guys to see them because I think there
are a tendency in Christian life is also to settle rather than realize we're actually
meant to scatter.
Man, churches, how often do we settle?
Oh, so often.
Like we think, oh, ministry is what happens on Sunday morning.
No, no, no.
Commission is what happens on Sunday morning.
Yeah.
The commission is Sunday.
We celebrate and we get sent.
Yeah.
Sunday should be a small part of your church ministry.
Yeah.
Hear that again.
Sunday should be a small part of your church ministry.
Yeah.
I want to, I want to brag on, on a church that I came from a while ago because I think
that they really got some things right.
So when I was in college, there was a church called Real Life on the Blues, right?
They were a plant from a church up in Post Falls, Idaho, right?
One of the things I really love about that church is they invested in small group life,
right?
To the point that there was a point where people were overvaluing Sunday and undervaluing
care groups and they said, listen, if we can't get this right, Sunday morning is going to
get shut down because our lifeblood is relationship.
It's meant to be lived together because that's where they invited people in who were the
disenfranchised.
They invited people in who were curious about God because typically we think, oh, well,
let's invite people who don't know God to church because it's really intimidating.
As I, you know, you think about like the song was like, we're worshiping God with fervor
and let's just say you go to like a Pentecostal church, right?
And it's going to be potentially pretty wild.
And I love that expression.
I also love the liturgical expression, right?
But it's going to be real uncomfortable for somebody who's just trying to understand God
on a very real level.
Like they're not relationally there.
And I'm not saying they can't come, but I'm saying it's going to be more difficult for
them.
But if you invite them to a group inside your home or you're eating food and you have a
relationship and you're building and you're talking about God, like that's a place where
they can actually start to connect.
Yeah.
Think of it, think of it this way.
You invite someone to church, they're nervous and kind of reluctantly agree.
We're going to, we're going to run a hypothetical here.
Okay.
They're nervous.
They kind of reluctantly agree.
Okay.
They come into church all of a sudden, greeters swarm them saying hi.
Right?
Yeah.
Okay.
The greeters say, go, I'm doing my job.
I'm greeting the newcomer, right?
And the newcomer is like, get away from me.
Well, and then they get to 10 feet past the greeter and nobody talks to them.
Yeah.
Then you get 10 feet past the greeter and then people are turning their backs towards
them.
Yeah.
Right?
Okay.
They, they go and, and then in this hypothetical, let's say you, let's say you sit three rows
back from the front.
Yeah.
Do you think that's where they're going to want to sit?
Probably not, but they'll go sit with you because they're, you're the one person they
know.
Right?
Right.
Okay.
And then meanwhile, the pastor will be like, Oh, there's a new person up front and he'll
continually make eye contact with them while he's preaching because pastors do that.
Right.
Because you want to connect.
Right.
And then they're sitting there and they're like, this is creepy.
Yeah.
When you have no context for that, the church can be absolutely overwhelming.
Terrifying even.
Now, now, now I don't, I don't suffer from social anxiety.
Yeah.
But there are people who absolutely do.
Oh, totally do.
Like they can't, they can't, that's not, man, that's a nightmare for them.
Yeah.
And so now contrast that with you being like, Hey, let's go get coffee.
That was way less intimidating.
Right.
Let's go get lunch.
Way less intimidating.
Hey, there's a group of people we get together at my house this day of the week at this time.
We eat food, we talk a little bit of Jesus and just have a good time.
Yeah.
Way less intimidating.
Right.
If you were talking and like the problem, I think one of the problems with Sunday morning
church is it's geared towards extroverted people.
Come be loud together.
My wife's an introvert.
Right.
She goes to church because she knows that she's called to be there.
Right.
There's actually very little that she likes about church on Sunday.
Right.
And somebody's going to listen to this and be like, I know our pastor's going to listen
to this and be like, Oh, but anyways, there's very little that she likes about church on
Sunday.
She goes because she knows she's called to be there.
Right.
So she would much rather just stay home, read a book, not have anybody bugger the whole
day.
Right.
And so like, I want to come back to Lot because I don't want to like just trash on Lot because
I think we are Lot in a lot of ways.
Right.
We see the thing that's better for ourselves when we go and take it and we don't really
learn how to lay ourselves down.
But one of the things that really strikes me as Abram learns this lesson here with God,
right?
It's about letting God make your name great because right after this Sodom is actually
going to be attacked.
Yeah.
And all the people are going to be taken captive and they let Abram knows and he's like, he's
like, Oh, okay.
Well, that's not great.
So he goes with a with a tix bunch of guys and he goes and defeats the people who took
them and he brings them back.
And I love this statement here.
So the king of Sodom comes to Abram and he says, sorry, we are in chapter 14 verse 21.
And the king of Sodom says to Abram, he says, give me the people and keep the goods for
yourself, which by the way, first of all, kudos to that king.
Yeah.
And I don't know what happens between this king and what comes ends up happening with
Sodom, but this king has his perspective, right?
Yeah.
I don't care about my stuff.
I care about my people.
But Abram says, uh, with raised hand, I have sworn an oath to the Lord God most high creator
of heaven and earth that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or a strap
of a sandal so that you will never be able to say I made Abram rich.
I will accept nothing but what belong, but what my men have eaten and the share that
belongs to the men who went with me.
Okay.
So Abram, first of all, makes a choice for himself and doesn't impose it on other people,
which I think is great.
Right.
Conviction, not a commandment.
Yeah.
Right.
But he says, I'm not going to put myself in a position where you can say I made Abram
great.
You see that?
See that great nation that came out of him.
That's because he took our wealth when he saved our people.
And now he's a great nation because of what happened here.
It's like, Nope, that's not going to happen.
What is going to happen is I'm going to lay this down again and I saved your people.
I saved your stuff.
You're going to bless these other guys who came with me because they did their part and
they don't have the same conviction, but you're not going to be able to say it.
We're going to know that in all the world is going to be known that this nation became
great because of God, not because of Abram.
And by the way, guys, like that's huge for us as Christians.
We really need to absorb this mentality and walk with it.
Right.
And I love Abram because he does some things that are just dynamite.
But he also has some things where he just like, man, he really struggles to follow what
God is doing.
And it's not that he doesn't have doubt.
And we see that even in the next story, right?
Because he's like, God comes and he's like, and a lot of ways, I think this story where
God's like, man, Abram, this is awesome.
Yeah.
Because twice in a row, he's learned the lesson.
Like he's starting to put God on display and God's like, this is really cool.
Abram's like, yeah, okay, God, but I don't have an heir.
Like you said, I was going to.
So my servants going to inherit this, this land and God says nothing.
This is another one of those double Hebrew things.
And then he says, again, he goes, okay, God, but seriously, like everybody who's going
to inherit my stuff now doesn't even belong to my line.
Yeah.
And God's like, okay, I'll deal with this.
Okay.
Yeah.
Tell you what, let's have a conversation about that, but it's a weird conversation.
I'm going to direct you guys to an episode of Baymott's called the blood path covenant,
right?
Because God asked him to do some weird stuff here.
He's like, go get these animals and, and bring them here.
And then Abram's like, okay.
And then the next thing it says is this.
Abram brought all these to him, cut them into and arrange the house opposite of each other.
The bird tower, he did not cut in half.
Okay.
That's weird because God didn't tell him to do that.
So clearly Abram knows something we don't.
And he's setting up this thing called a blood path covenant.
And I don't really want to get too deep into this because I think you should check out
the Baymott episode.
It's a great episode, right?
But Abram asked for God for a sign.
And then God says, okay, well, I'll do a sign with you, I'll do a covenant.
Right.
And then Abram like sets up the covenant and then doesn't walk it.
Right.
Like he sets it up and he's like, well, maybe not.
Right.
And, and you know why?
Yeah.
Cause Abram's on the hook if he does, like if he walks this, he has to take responsibility.
Right.
This blessing that the Lord put on Abraham that he's promised to Abraham, like you'll
be a blessing to all nations.
And I'm going to give you, and at this point it's, I'm going to give you an air, we're
going to walk a covenant to make sure that you know that that happens.
Side note, Abram's old at this point.
Yep.
Like at least 75.
At least 75.
Okay.
I have a four year old and I am far from 75 and I'm tired.
Yeah.
So I can't imagine doing that at 75.
But so Abram's on the hook if he does this, right?
So he sets it up and he's like, well, wait a second, kind of on the fence because this
is a big commitment.
And if I screw it up, it's my blood on the line.
Yeah.
Okay.
So this isn't like, let's, let's back this up a little bit more.
This isn't like if you mess up with your finances in the U S and you have the option to, to
declare bankruptcy and start over.
Right.
That's not how a covenant works.
No, this is like your physical blood is on the line.
Right.
This is actually a ceremony, a covenant that's used with husbands marrying into a family.
Yeah.
Right.
Then, and the husband says, you know, if I don't fulfill all the terms of the obligation,
you can do this in my blood, father-in-law.
And likewise, the father-in-law, if I don't deliver a daughter who is a virgin, you can
do this in my blood.
Now, please don't misunderstand, like you need to contextualize this thing.
Right.
This, this is, this is more of a, like historically where it was.
Right.
And I think Baymott does a really good job of helping us walk through that and navigate
that.
But this is a serious thing because if you don't fulfill your obligation, it's your blood
that they're walking in.
Yeah.
Right.
And so, I mean, I, I, not surprisingly, Abram doesn't want to walk through it.
No.
But he does go into a deep sleep and then God talks to him about his future, which I
love.
I love.
By the way, guys, we really need to like understand, like God likes to talk to us when we sleep
because we finally shut up long enough to listen.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
I think he talks to me that way more than most.
Yeah.
I get that.
Yeah.
You're like, I get it.
He definitely need to be quiet.
How many times on the podcast were we like, we're like, okay, Ben talks too much.
Yes.
Um, but I love, I love this thing because we talk about the mercy of God a lot, right?
And we're, we're, and so God says to Abram, he says, you're going to go to a land that's
not your own and you're going to be there for 400 years.
Obviously not him, but like his descendants.
Yeah.
But you're going to come back to this land.
You're going to take position, possession, but you can't come back now because the sin
of the Amorites hasn't reached its full measure.
Okay.
So if you knew what the Amorites were doing that during that time, because we talked about
like worship of Malek and some different things like that, but there's a lot of like child
sacrifice and then some crazy stuff that's going on, right?
In those, in that time period, the Amorites are not great people, right?
Uh, Abram's learning how to lay himself down.
The Amorites were not doing that.
Right.
And God, who is apparently this judgmental guy, right?
Because that's what I hear about the God of the Old Testament, fire and brimstone, right?
I mean, Sodom and Gomorrah, it's coming up, right?
But God makes a statement.
He says, you're going to come back in 400 years because their sin hasn't reached the
point where I can't redeem it.
I love that man.
Like that talks about the grace of God.
Because I guarantee you for 400 years, he's having a conversation.
He's sending people and he's like, Hey guys, come out of this, come out of this, come out
of this.
But just like in Genesis one, God says a story is good, even though he knows Genesis three
is coming.
Yeah.
God says, I'm going to do everything I can to try to bring them back.
Even though I know they're not going to do it.
Man, that's crazy to me.
Like think about God knows this is about to happen for 400 years.
And we'd be like, Oh no, you need to just knock them out.
Right.
Just get rid of it.
You know, it's not going to take place anyways.
But God is a God of justice and he's raising sons and daughters.
He's not building a fence like we think he is.
Yeah.
Right.
It's a role that I don't want to step into because I don't understand it.
Yeah.
So good.
And you got, you kind of have to talk about the power of choice at this point.
Because you have a couple of things happening.
So one, there's this idea, okay, if God knew all this was going to happen, why didn't he
just make it so he stayed in the garden with him?
Well, if we didn't have the choice to choose God, would we actually love him?
Right.
So that's, that's one thing.
And I've heard that argument said before yet.
And I think we could even step it like, let's make it more personal.
Yeah.
Would your child's love mean anything if they couldn't not love you?
Yeah.
What?
It mean anything?
Like if your kid could only love you, they don't have a choice.
Right?
Anything, like it doesn't matter what you do.
Like they have to love you.
Yeah.
They have to obey you all the time.
Like I got news for you.
I got something that does that most of the time.
It's called an iPhone and I don't love it.
And it doesn't love me.
No, but it does everything you ask it to.
Exactly.
It does everything I ask it to.
And if it doesn't, I throw it away and I get a new one.
Right?
That is not a relationship I want to have with my kids.
And oftentimes that's how we view God.
Of like, okay, well, when we fail too much, he'll just toss it out and we'll start over.
Right.
But that's not what's going on here.
God is saying, hey, I'm going to wait patiently.
I'm going to send people to redeem, so that you can be redeemed, so that you can come
back, so you can return.
And so you have to talk about choice a little bit because could God have done things differently?
Absolutely.
Did he?
No.
And so, and I've heard people ask like, okay, well, what about sin coming into the world?
Well, okay, so what about it?
The reality is, is I don't know the full extent of God's plan.
Like in Isaiah, Isaiah talks about how the wisdom of man doesn't even measure up to the
foolishness of God.
Right?
So I don't know the full extent of his plan.
What I have to do is I have to trust that it's good and he knows what he's doing.
You said something a few episodes ago where you said, are we looking at God, at the Old
Testament and the Bible through a God who loves us?
Or are we looking through the Bible as a God who's angry?
And the way we live really determines that.
And one of the things I love about God is he always gives us a choice.
He does.
He sets it out in front of us and it's an invitation.
And please hear me today, okay?
There's an invitation in front of you when you are done with this episode, right?
Are you going to live into the identity that God calls you to?
Are you going to lay yourself down or are you going to let him make your name great?
Are you going to trust him to bless you and bless all nations?
Or are you going to try to find the fertile plain for yourself?
Are you going to accumulate wealth for yourself?
Are you going to give some omissions in order to accumulate for yourself?
Or are you going to trust that God's identity is good and that he's going to actually redeem
a lost world?
Yeah.
And that's super hard.
Yeah.
It's so difficult.
Now, I think the best place to close in this story is actually understanding what happens.
So God tells Abram what's going to happen.
And then when the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking fire pot with a blazing
torch appeared and it passed between the pieces.
And what happens there?
The Lord made a covenant with Abram that day and said, I have given you this land to your
descendants all the way from the borders of Egypt to the great Euphrates River.
The land is now occupied by a bunch of Aites.
And he's like, that's where the land is now occupied.
But he's saying, I'm giving that to you.
Right.
On that day, the Lord made a covenant with Abram.
But here's the deal.
Abram never walked the covenant.
No.
God walked it twice.
It sounds a lot like a guy I know from the New Testament.
Yeah.
Who wrapped himself in flesh.
Was the word made flesh?
And Torah made flesh, by the way.
Yeah.
And he goes and he takes on both ends of the covenant to redeem a lost and dying world.
Yeah.
To change our nature and bring us back to the nature of who we're supposed to be.
Yeah, absolutely.
And one of the interesting things, just to kind of point this out, is in verse 12, or
sorry, verse 17, or chapter 15, verse 17, right?
It actually says Abram saw this happen.
Okay.
So Abram saw the Lord make a covenant with himself, promising this to Abram.
Right.
So Abram sees the God who takes on both sides.
Yeah.
Okay.
What we're going to see, and we're going to talk about some of this next week too, is
God, or Abram is going to continue to see who God is and how he interacts with this
family.
So when he's talking to his kids, Isaac, Jacob, and down to Joseph, they are not going to
be perfect.
They're going to struggle hard.
Yeah.
But God is going to teach them truths about him in the middle of it.
Truths that are really important for us to understand, because if you don't understand
God and his initial family, and then as we get into the Exodus and Leviticus, if you
don't understand this, you're going to come to the wrong conclusions when you get to the
Gospels.
Yeah.
I think we're in danger as a church of looking more like the Pharisees than Jesus.
And that's not to throw the Pharisees under the bus, because I think they get a bad rap.
But they were so focused on what to do that they forgot what they're supposed to be.
And when Jesus showed up and he says, no, it's not about what you do, it's about who
you are and how you love well.
But you add that to what you do, man, that flips the world out of its head.
So good.
That's the invitation, guys.
But like God says, you get a choice.
Well thanks for joining us today.
If you want to contact us, loveandcontexts at gmail.com, follow us on Instagram.
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God bless.