Welcome to Season 3 of Love & Context. This season,
we're exploring the life of Jesus step -by -step
and uncovering what His story teaches us about
loving God and others. Here on Love & Context,
we're all about having real conversations about
how to live out that love in practical, everyday
ways, and understanding the Bible in its full
context. We're so glad you're here. Let's dive
into Season 3 of Love & Context. Welcome back
to the Love in Context podcast. Test. Yeah. Once
again, we're joined by, you do know this is going
on YouTube, so people will see you. Oh, yes.
Yes. Okay. So don't worry. This is Ben. I'm a
very serious person. And I am not Spencer. Not
Spencer. We're joined again by Matthew Nunley.
He was on a few episodes again. We were talking
about prayer, but today we're going to be talking
about the feeding of the 5 ,000 and the 4 ,000.
Before I got that, I actually told you, I was
like, hey, let's go and start recording because
I want to include this in the podcast. We were
talking about like when you reveal things to
people. And I was talking about my son is like
there's some questions he has about some things
going on in life. And I was like, I don't, he's
not ready to understand those things because
they're adult themes that he doesn't have no
context on. He's six years old. And so I explained
it to him in a very generic way. And I said,
there is more. And I've told him, I said, hey,
buddy, there's more to this. Exactly. Which is
so good to let him know that. There is more to
this, but you're not capable of understanding
it right now. Trust dad that he's going to reveal
it to you as you need to know. And I was telling
Matthew, I was like, right around that time I
said that, God's like, hey, by the way. Yeah,
it's almost like, you know. own walk with God
and our understanding and what we learn and all
those things. Is it kind of like a similar? Somewhat
age appropriate, right? Relationship appropriate,
you know, like our, what we're able to absorb
and comprehend. Right. Yeah. You know, and so
the, well, and so, and so you said something
you were talking about, um, I gave you a book
recently talking about the sacrificial system,
which you said is not necessarily one that like
when somebody first comes as Jesus, this is probably
not the book that's going to be helpful for them.
No. Right. Now, once you come to Jesus, you have
to, and like what I was going to tell you is
like, um, I will have people who ask me, they're
like, Hey, when did you, like, where did you
learn this contextual things? And I said, and
I said, well, you know, I can give you a list
of the books, but I can ask you a question. I
was like, how, how well do you know the Bible?
Right. Right. Like that's one of the first questions
that I have. And, uh, you know, there'll be like,
well, you know, I've read, you know, blah, blah,
blah. And there's a good percentage of Christians
that never read the entire Bible. Yep. Right.
A hundred percent. And yeah, not, not a hundred
percent. Um, and, uh, and so when the, so the
washer, I got started, I was like, you should
read your Bible at least four times a year to
get started. Hmm. And consider reading the gospels
once a week. Yeah. Yeah. And they're like, well,
but I've read those and I say, yeah, but I need
you to really understand them. Like you need
to understand the narrative. You need to understand
how these pieces fit together. The Bible project
is a great reference, a reference point that
we use all the time. bama podcast this podcast
all these things are great for those i was like
but the reality is you have to be familiar with
the text yeah you have to let it be familiar
to you so whether that's listening reading um
you can watch like they have like these awesome
artistic renderings of like scripture right and
i love that too whatever your way to engage is
you need to engage Because the things we're talking
about, if you don't know what's true, what's
part of the narrative, the heart of God throughout
scripture, you're going to struggle when you
go in and you start poking at things and being
like, is this actually something valid the Bible's
talking about? Or is this something I've been
told by people that the Bible says? Correct.
And if you don't understand context, love and
context, right? Yeah. Love and context. But if
you don't, if you don't understand context, it
is so easy to misunderstand. Or even if you don't
misunderstand it, to not understand the true
depth. So you read over something, you'll just
kind of gloss over it because it doesn't really
connect. Yeah. You know, but then it's like,
if you do have a good foundation and you can
start to see where the references really are
referring to and connecting, it's like, whoa,
it just opens up to a whole new experience. Well,
and this is something interesting that happens
when you actually start studying the Bible and
start actually just reading it. And by the way,
this is not the yes study, but I'm talking about
just read. Yeah. Like, don't try to figure it
out. Just read and hear the story. Right? And
I was like, I can do it in different translations.
Yeah, yeah. You know, multiple translations.
NLT, then NIV, then the message, then King James
Version, then the CSV, then the ESV, then the
NASB, then the ALT? BLT. Yeah, the BLT, the Ben's
Living Translation. Or bacon, lettuce, and what's
better than tomato? Because I don't know if I
want tomato on my... Ooh, you know what? Bacon,
lettuce, and tostadas. Okay. Try it and let me
know how it goes. Taquitos. There we go. Bacon,
lettuce, and taquitos. That's what my sandwich
is named after. But you get this and you hear
this rhythm and you hear what's going on in the
Bible. And what's going to start happening is
as you're listening to the Old Testament, you're
going to be like, oh man, Jesus says something
about that. And you're going to start hearing
the connections yourself without us doing anything
else. And we're waving at Talon because that's
Matthew's son. He walked by the window as we
were recording. I like how he was tiptoeing like
he's actually going to get picked up by the mic.
So, but, you know, you go through these over
and over again and you'll start making the connections
because you're going to be like in the New Testament
and Jesus says, the poor will always be with
you. And you'd be like, oh, that's in Deuteronomy.
Right, right, right. And then he says, but I
won't always be with you. So this gift is extravagant.
And then you're like, oh, because like honoring
God, but you always need to be generous because
that's what Deuteronomy is talking about. You
should always be generous, but Jesus isn't always
with you. And so be extravagant when Jesus is
moving in your midst. Because what's meant for
basically all those provisions that we have aren't
just meant for us. Correct. And just like, you
know, Torah and everything else. And all the
blessings that the Israelites had wasn't just
meant for them, but it was to bless the entire
world. Yeah. The same kind of context. So getting
into the gospels, you know, like hearing the
words of Jesus and a lot of people will be like,
you know, I follow Jesus, but they have no idea
what he said. Right. Yeah. You know, and, and
then I'll talk to people about, you know, what
is, what does it mean to follow Christ? And they'll
quote Paul, which by the way, it's not a bad
thing. Correct. Right. It's not a bad thing because
Paul's quoting Jesus. Correct. But you should
know what Jesus said. A hundred percent. Right.
Paul is a helpful teacher to understand Jesus,
but Jesus is our rabbi. He's our God. He's our
Messiah. Right. And so like knowing the gospels
is incredibly crucial because the gospels are
the heart of everything that beats around it.
Yep. Right. And then understanding what really
we should be referencing with when we mentioned
the gospel is important because there's been,
you know, like I remember as a child, a common.
thing that was kind of told in church that i
just kind of ran with was oh the gospels is okay
those first books of the new testament that talk
about the life of jesus and that's the gospels
yeah it's like yeah yeah yes yeah but but gospel
literally means correct good news and then and
then there's the often confused between the specific
message that jesus presented as the gospel versus
what like paul presented as The gospel. Well,
you and I were having this conversation because
we were talking about parables the other day.
And in the book of Matthew, he has a sermon on
the mount where he introduces this concept of
the kingdom of God because his message is repent
because the kingdom of God is here. Exactly.
And then he describes what the kingdom of God
is and what it means to be a citizen of the kingdom
of God. And then he tells a parable about the
kingdom of God is like. Correct. Now we read
that and we're like, oh, like being a Christian
is like, no, no, he's just talked. for multiple
chapters about what the kingdom of God is. This
message, this thing about like, this is the kingdom
of God. This is Torah come among you. This is
God's law coming to life in people's lives. And
like, this is what it looks like. And then he
says, so the kingdom of God is like a mustard
seed. The kingdom of God is like dough that is
baked and yeast that is sewed into it. It gets
everywhere, you know, and like, and like, and
it's always connecting back to this idea of the
kingdom. Now, why is that important? Because
the good news. of Jesus Christ is that the kingdom
of God is here ready to interact with us. It's
now accessible because of his death, burial and
resurrection. Correct. Right. Yep. But his death,
burial and resurrection, they're purposeful and
their purpose is fulfilled because of the life
of Jesus. Yep. And one of the places that I think
we've gotten ourselves in trouble in the church
is that we focus so hard on the cross and the
cross is incredibly important and the empty tomb
is incredibly important and we should focus on
those, but they're in the context of the life
of Jesus and this kingdom he came to represent.
He says, this is the kingdom come among you.
Yep. Now let me give you access to it. Exactly.
You trust in my, my faithfulness. is what Paul's
going to say. We put our faith in the faithfulness
of Jesus Christ. And when we do that, we're transported
to heavenly places, seated in heavenly places
with God, right? And the spirit is sent as a
down payment for what is to come. And we live
today, as we quoted a few weeks ago in the Lord's
prayer, your kingdom come, your will be done
here on earth as it is in heaven. And so then
we actually live this mandate to bring the kingdom
of heaven to the places we go. We bring this
kingdom, this kingdom of generosity, this kingdom
of love, this kingdom of care, this kingdom of
restoration, this kingdom of light. It goes right
back into the mustard seed or the little bit
of lemon. So everywhere we go, we are bringing
the kingdom and we are effectively injecting
and taking over. Correct. The realm around us
with the kingdom of heaven. Permeate everywhere.
Exactly. And, uh, you know, one of the, remember
one of those, those songs from, uh, like, uh,
VBS growing up this little light of mine. Right.
I'm going to let it shine, which is a great song.
I love that song. Right. I will not. Yes, please
sing it for us right now. But the thing about
light is a little light in a lot of darkness
is really powerful. Extremely. It eliminates.
If you've ever just like, I want you to like
just sometime go into your room, completely black
it out and light a candle. And you let me know
as you sit there how much that candle impacts
your view of the room. Oh, exactly. you know
and the reverse of that too if someone else is
looking at you inside of a dark room with a candle
you are illuminated yeah everything else is dark
and yet there's a guided light to you there's
a quote from c .s lewis where he talks about
that and he says i believe in christ like i believe
in the sun not because i can see it but because
by it i can see everything else Right? Right.
Like, and so, and like this idea, like light
makes a difference in the darkness. Yeah, it
does. Going back to John 1 .1. Yep. You know?
Yeah, exactly. The verdict has come. Right? Yep.
So. That's not actually what we're talking about
today. That's just a precursor on like why it's
really important to like, is that things get
revealed in time, but the biggest thing you can
do to grow in your, in your faith is to actually
be familiar with the word of God. Oh, definitely.
Be familiar with the gospels, be familiar with
these stories. Hopefully everything that we do
here on the podcast gets you excited to get into
this book yourself. A hundred percent. Like that's
the hope. Today we are reading the feeding of
the 5 ,000 and reading the feeding of the 4 ,000.
So I'm going to read both of these stories back
to back. I'm going to use Matthew for both of
these. but there is some things from the other
books that I'm going to reference. But I wanted
to use Matthew today because Matthew Nunley is
here. No, that's not why. No, definitely not.
All right. So if you're in chapter 14, Jesus
comes and he is, so this is just after John the
Baptist has been beheaded. And it says in verse
13, when Jesus heard what had happened, this
is. John dying. He withdrew by boat privately
to a solitary place. Hearing of this, the crowds
followed him on foot from the towns. When Jesus
landed and saw the great crowd, he had compassion
on them and healed their sick. As evening approached,
the disciples came to him and said, this is a
remote place and it's already getting late. Send
the crowds away so that they can go to the villages
and buy themselves some food. Jesus replied,
they do not need to go away. You give them something
to eat. We have here only five loaves of bread
and two fish, they answered. Bring them to me,
he said. And he directed the people to sit down
on the grass, taking five loaves and two fish
and looking up to heaven. He gave thanks and
broke the loaves. Then he gave them to the disciples
and the disciples gave them to the people. They
all ate and were satisfied. And the disciples
picked up 12 basketfuls of broken pieces that
were left over. The number of those who ate was
about 5 ,000 men besides women. and children.
All right. So pause here. I want to read you
a couple of things here and I want to pause and
ask you your, your impression of what's going
on here. When Jesus heard about what happened,
his cousin, John has just been beheaded. Yeah.
He went by boat, withdrew by boat to a private,
privately to a solitary place. Why? Oh, what
does Jesus go to solitary places for? He goes
to pray. He goes to have tabernacle with the
father to commune, you know, to, to go to him
and seek his will. Right. You know, and that's
already been established in this book. Yep. Like
this is where Jesus does. He withdraws to lonely
places, wilderness places, the wasteland of places
like where nothing's going on. That's where we
tend to grow. Nowhere's nowhere. Yeah. Right.
Yeah. So Jesus hears that his cousin has been
beheaded. Somebody that's very close to him.
Somebody who he picked up the mantle of his conversation
because John originally was preaching repent
for the kingdom of heaven is here. And Jesus
steps into that and carries it in a little bit
different direction than John because John doesn't
quite get what Jesus is doing. Right, right.
But like he respects John. Very much. And he
loves him too. And he loves him. He's hurting,
you know. So he's gone with that real raw emotion,
you know. To the father. He's bringing that with
him. So he's going to a lonely place to go and
spend time with the father because he's hurting.
And it doesn't say that he's hurting, but I think
that it's implied. A hundred percent. And it
also says, you know, like he's our mediator,
right? And he has experienced basically everything
we have, which is why he's able to do it so well.
It's not just from a... intellectual knowledge
as our creator, but as an experiential knowledge
as one who's also experienced it too. And so
he can, he can relate to us so much more intimately
than just the intellectual knowledge and know
-how of our makeup. Hearing of this, that Jesus
is withdrawing because John has died. Yeah. The
crowds followed him on foot from the towns. Right.
Okay. First of all, And the miracle is about
to happen, but don't be that guy. Right. You
know what I mean? like somebody's like man this
is heavy i need to go and pray and i just need
some time alone you're like i'm going with you
you know to read um like sometimes there is like
i i by the way this by it just went went on in
my head lord of the rings reference right yeah
frodo's like sam you can't come with me i'm going
to mordor alone he's like i know and i'm coming
with you you know which ultimately ends up being
a good thing but like this idea like When people
are going to be alone with God as like ask them
if they want company, sometimes you need to show
up there regardless, but also read the room.
Exactly. A hundred percent. Now when Jesus landed,
so he gets there, he sees a large crowd. It says
he had compassion on them and he healed their
sick. So this is not why he's here. This is not
why he's here. but he looks out and he sees the
people and he has compassion. This just shows
the heart of God. Yeah. Such as like, I mean,
it's such an extreme example, you know, one who's
dealing with something that would be so painful
as it is having, you know, your family member
and your best friend, you know, one of your,
you know, dear friends, you know, who's just
been effectively murdered, you know, for righteousness,
really, you know, and someone you're close with
and you're dealing with all that. And yet God
is in his humanity, able to table, what he's
dealing with and have compassion and remove and
compartmentalize himself from what his own issues
and be able to be there for everyone else. Yeah.
Like it just did the depth of love that that
is, is just, it's amazing. And it's inspirational.
Yeah. So I want to go to a quiet place. I'm going
to figure out, like spend some time with God
and process what's going on with John. He sees
the people are like, Oh, he's going over here.
We'll go over there first. He comes out and he's
like, Yeah. I love you guys. And heels are sick.
And then, so then, uh, it's not actually Jesus
who brings up them leaving. Jesus is not the
one who brings up them leaving. Uh, if you read
next, it says as evening approached, the disciples
came to him, him as Jesus. And they said, this
is a remote place. Yeah. No kidding. I went here
on purpose. Right. Right. This is a remote place.
Yeah. I know this is, I went here on purpose.
Um, And it's already getting late. Send the crowds
away so they can go to the villages and buy themselves
some food. Okay. Jesus didn't summon the crowds,
but they want him to send them away. Right. But
not because of a faith issue or a compassion
issue, but because they're hungry and they think
they're hungry and they need to go get some food.
Yep. Right. So what does Jesus say? They do not
need to go away. You give them something to eat.
Hey, if you think this is a problem, why don't
you take care of it? Exactly. Right? Well, we
only have five loaves of bread and two fish,
they answered. Bring them here to me. And he
directed the people to sit down on the grass,
taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking
up to the heavens. He gave thanks and broke the
loaves. In the middle of his heartbreak, in the
middle of serving people who needed to be comforted,
in the middle of people who were being sick,
in the middle of the disciples who want him to
send them away because they came to a remote
place. Of course we did. Yep. Go buy your own
food. He says, no, we're going to take what we
got. I'm going to look to my father, who is,
by the way, who I came to talk to to begin with.
Exactly. I'm going to bless what you've given
and it's going to feed everybody. Yeah. Now.
There's a ton of different ways we could have
gone with this story, right? Oh, very much so.
There's so many things to digest here. But it's
beautiful. It is. Like, you should see the heart
of God on display here. The miracle isn't that
people's mouths are full of food. The miracle
is that God takes what people offer. He made
some in there. I'm going to say selfishness.
Like they come in when he's trying to mourn or
like deal with the death, they come and crowd
in and get healing and stuff. The disciples are
like, let's get, get rid of them. And he's like,
no, we're going to feed them. And like he feeds
all of them. Exactly. In the middle of all these
things is all these feelings that he's feeling.
Now this is of course just the book of Matthew.
Like other disciples are going to record it slightly
differently because they experienced slightly
different things. Right. Like that's this is
the heart of God on display. Yep. This is a it's
about this We've been talking about this kingdom
life the kingdom life. Yeah, like it's it's about
being devoted to God, but it's also about compassion
It's about this healing breaking out. It's about
goodness breaking out. It's about peace breaking
out It's about community coming together and
and we're gonna talk about the numbers in a little
bit But we're gonna do the story of the four
thousand before we start talking about numbers
before we do that like another thing to kind
of like highlight I think here that's important
is You know, and we see this in, you know, Jesus'
prayer, you know, garden of Gethsemane, or probably
said that wrong. But, you know, it's like in
with the Lord's prayer, right? You know, it's
like, hey, your will, not mine, be done kind
of thing. And so like, yeah, he's experiencing
a very human emotion right now. And so it's his
will to be able to kind of dislocate from everything,
go have his time. with the Lord and him process
it. But yet God's like allowing it, like God's
will is for, you know, to love all, right. And
to redeem all. And there's all these others who
have needs, right. And God has compassion for
them. And so it's like, Hey, it's not what I'm
personally feeling, not my will, but like living
out the, and demonstrating what it is to be interruptible,
you know, being able to put others. in front
of yourself and your own feelings, emotions,
thoughts, needs, right? And putting other people's
needs first. And it's like a really kind of beautiful
demonstration of, you know, the Christian walk,
allowing yourself to be interruptible, to do
God's will when you're trying to do something
like, I've got this meeting I got to go do, but
God's like, oh, I got this person I need you
to minister to though on the way. And it's like,
but I got this timeline, right? Like this person's
hungry. They need that McDonald's cheeseburger.
Go get them that first, right? Whatever it is.
Incidentally, we're recording on National Cheeseburger
Day. So. Perfect. See, got new things. I didn't
know. You know, but that's what it's showing
here. And it's really, really cool because it's
not just in the, you know, like, yes, the feeding
of the four and five thousand were big events
that we look at now. But going into this, the
big event hadn't occurred yet. Yeah. Right. The
miracle hadn't occurred yet. But yet the demonstration
of what we see in the big events, like, you know,
when, you know, you know, Jesus literally submits
himself to be arrested and go to the cross and
other things like that. Right. Don't get ahead
of us. That's that's way further. I know. I know.
I know. But yeah, it's just the heart here. And
I love it. Well, I agree. I agree with you completely.
So why does like so why does Jesus go to a desolate
place? to pray. Like that's been the motif going
forward. And yet when he gets there, there's
people who he has compassion on and are sick
and they need to hear, they need to hear a word
of God. And maybe the disciples are like, Oh
yeah, we're going to go mourn, you know, John
the Baptist too. We're going to go with Jesus.
Cause clearly the disciples are with them. So
he planned on them going with them. Right. And
like, they're like, man, we're going to get some
alone time with Jesus. He's going to tell us
these stories. And then there's these crowds
and they're like. Now, that is supposition, by
the way. That's not written in the text. That's
a thing that I just think. Right, right. But
the interruption actually ends up being the point
of being there. Yeah. That the healing breaks
out and also a miracle breaks out. A miracle
chock full of significance for the Jewish people.
Yeah. Right? We're going to come back to that
in just a minute. So I'm going to jump ahead
here. So after this story. Jesus then goes, it
says that Jesus immediately made the disciples
get into the boat and go ahead of him to the
other side. Okay. And this is where Jesus is
then going to walk on water. Peter's going to
be like, hey, can I come and join you? And he's
like, sure, come on out. That, by the way, is
a great story that we should have time to talk
about at a future date. because Peter does the
right thing. When you're a disciple of Jesus,
when you were a disciple of rabbi, you do what
the rabbi does. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And so
him walking on the water is the correct thing
to do. Yep. And Peter does sink, but not before
he walks. And I was like, I will take three steps
on water and falling in into the water and being
pulled up by the hands of God over being one
of the 11 that's still on the side of the boat
all day. All day. All day, yeah. 100%. John Orberg
has a book, and the book is good, but I love
the title. It says, you can't walk on water if
you won't get out of the boat. Exactly. And it's
so true. Right? And how many times have we let
fear prevent us from ever going into what? God's
calling us into, right? So, so he goes out and
he walks on water and they're like, man, who
is this guy? We just watched him just feed an
army. Now he's walking on water. Like what's
going on? There's a great reference to the book
of Jonah, by the way, in there. Um, not Jonah,
um, Job, Job, reference to the book of Job inside
of that, that conversation. Um, then he has a
conversation with the Pharisees about what, what
defiles, right? And then after they have this
conversation about what was going to defile people,
he then goes and interact with a Canaanite woman.
Right, right. Right? Yep. So he just talks to
them about what defiles and then the woman comes
and she is, let me read it real quick. A Canaanite
woman came from that vicinity crying out, Lord,
son of David, have mercy on me. My daughter is
demon possessed and suffering terribly. He did
not answer her so that his disciples said, yeah,
send her away. He answered, I was sent only for
the lost sheep of Israel. The woman then said,
and now before him, he said, Lord, help me. He
replied, it's not right to take the children's
bread and toss it to the dogs, which, by the
way, is not as insulting as it sounds. What he's
saying is, I can't give to you when I haven't
taken care of the people I'm here for first.
Right? And then she says, yes, it is, Lord. Even
the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the master's
table. And he goes, yeah. I like that. I like
that faith. Yeah, exactly. He's like, I love
that you've got that going on. So he says, woman,
you have great faith. Your request is granted.
And her daughter was healed in that moment. Now,
right after this story. Jesus fed the 5 ,000
with the Jewish people. Then he goes and walks
on water and they're like, man, this guy must
be the son of God. Right. And then he has this
conversation with the Pharisees about what defiles,
what you put in or what it's on the outside.
Then he interacts with the Canaanite woman. He
says, I'm not here for you. I'm actually here
for the people of Israel. Now. Jesus left there
and went along the Sea of Galilee, and he went
up to the mountainside and sat down. Great crowds
came to him, bringing the lame, the blind, the
crippled, the mute, and many others, and laid
them at his feet, and he healed them. The people
were amazed, and they saw the mute speaking.
The crippled made well, and the lame walking,
and the blind seeing. And they praised the God
of Israel. Okay, why did they say that? Why did
they say they praised the God of Israel? Oh,
that's right, because in 34 of chapter 14, when
they had crossed over, they landed at Gennesaret,
and when the men of that place recognized Jesus,
they sent word. all around the surrounding country.
People brought all their sick to him and begged
him to let the sick just touch the edge of his
cloak and all who healed were healed. So he's
now in a Gentile place, right? So he does this.
He walks on water. They go over to this Gentile
place. Then he has some conversation with the
Pharisees. The Canaanite woman has faith. He
sits down and he starts to teach them. And they
said, they praise the God of Israel. So Jesus
called his disciples to him and said, I have
compassion for these people. Okay, what was going
on in the last story? Well, the last story before
that, you know, it was the focus on the Jews.
And he had compassion on them. Yeah. Again. And,
uh, let's see here. It says, uh, they have already
been with me for three days and have nothing
to eat. I do not want to send them away hungry
or they may collapse on the way. Okay. I want
to point out what's going on different in this
story. Who's pointing out that people haven't
had any food? Now it's the Lord. After how many
days? Three days. How long was it in the other
story? I cannot remember. He went to a desolate
place. When he got there, they were there. And
that evening. Yeah, that's right. That evening.
That evening, he's like, they need to go get
some bread. Right? But apparently these people
have been with him for three days. Right. And
what have the disciples said? Not a, well, it's
interesting. So now Jesus is nothing. Now Jesus
is going to say, we need to feed them. Yeah.
Now let me ask you this. Like, what did Jesus
say before? Like, let me read you this. Yeah.
His disciples and answer, where could we get
enough bread in this remote place to feed such
a crowd? Then Jesus said, how many loaves do
you have? Okay. They've already learned this
lesson of what do you have? Right. Yeah. Now,
um, If, if we were, if we were actually good
followers of Jesus and he's taken us to this
place and he says, what do you have? I'm going
to feed 5 ,000 people. And then he comes to me
later and he says, Hey, all these people are
hungry. What should we, what we got to feed them?
And I was like, Hey, remember last time when
you multiply food, I got like seven loaves. By
the way, it was not that long ago. It's not that
long ago. We're talking like five or six days.
Literally. Three or four days. This is very fresh
in everyone's mind. And then also for listeners,
too, who might not realize it, you can literally
kind of look from one side of the sea here to
the other, and you kind of see the same, like
the other location where this just happened.
So you've got the geographical references, and
you've got just the time proximal. Just recollection
of this happening really recently so then they
say seven they replied and a few small fish Because
the number of fish isn't important. Yeah. And
this one. Yeah. By the way, this is why paying
attention to numbers is really important. And
we're going to talk about that in just a minute.
He told the crowd to sit down on the ground.
Then he took the seven loaves and the fish. And
when he had given thanks, once again, he looks,
he broke them and he gave them to the disciples
and they in turn gave them to the people. They
all ate and were satisfied. Afterward, the disciples
picked up seven basketfuls of broken pieces that
were left over. The number of those who ate was
4 ,000 men besides women and children. After
Jesus had sent the crowd away, he got into the
boat and went into the vicinity of Magadan. Okay.
And I am actually going to touch on that story
because I think it's really important because
it's connected to this other story. Yeah, yeah.
Okay. All right. I hope at this point when people
are listening, they've picked up that there's
some things going on here. Oh, definitely. So
with the Jewish people, there's 5 ,000 people,
men. Also women and children. Yep. Okay. Now
why 5 ,000? Because the number is important.
Five is important. Yeah. Yeah. So what's five
going to represent? So you got Torah. Torah,
right? So it's going to, so 5 ,000 is an exponent
of Torah. So it's going to be the Jewish people
are here. Exactly. Right. 5 ,000 men. That's
not that the women and children aren't important.
They're using a number to focus on Torah. Otherwise
there's just say a multitude of people. Exactly.
Okay. How many, how many loaves are there? With
this one, there was five. Oh, interesting. Interesting,
right? And there's how many fish? So with this
one, two. It's two fish. Which is also interesting.
Yeah, and I was like, that's interesting because
if you take five and two, you end up with ten.
Five and two, you end up with ten, which is,
by the way, the number of Ten Commandments there
are, and there's two tablets that have five laws
down each side. Yep. Interesting. Also, yeah,
so there's a few things that are going on with
the numbers here. And then they break the bread
and they take it out and they collect how many
basketballs? It's more than 10. Yeah. It was
12. 12. Weird. Something like that. I think there's
something with like the tribes of Israel. Yeah.
And so then they go to, they go to a Gentile
place and suddenly there's 4 ,000 people, a Gentile
number, right? Because of the four corners of
the world. Correct. And there is, they have seven
loaves, which by the way is a connection to creation
and all of creation. Exactly. And there is a
few fish because the Holy Spirit forgot how to
count. Oh, wait, never mind. That's not what
happened. Exactly. Right? The Holy Spirit didn't
forget how to count. And then when they collect
it all, there's how many basketfuls? With that
one, there was four. There's seven. Seven? I
believe there's seven. No, seven, yeah. Let me
double check. Seven large baskets. Yeah, okay,
there's seven. The large baskets, not the smaller.
Yeah, yeah. Because I was having this conversation
with somebody, and they say, well, these stories
are very similar. I was like, they're actually
different words for baskets. So the baskets that
are at the 5 ,000 are like, I mean, we kind of
look at them more like communion. baskets is
what i would call them right like they're kind
of smaller i was just thinking like little like
little lunch baskets but the ones in the story
of uh you have the gentiles right these are the
baskets that paul was in when they lowered him
down off the off the wall it's the same kind
of basket so paul's i don't know i mean there's
no indication that he's a massive dude But that's
still. But that's a much bigger basket. Exactly.
Right. Because if you put Paul, Matthew's not
a massive person, but if we put him in a little
like lunch basket and try to lower him down a
wall, we're going to have flattened Matthew on
the ground. Right. And so like, like in these,
in these stories, like they're, they're different
stories, but they're talking about two, two different
things as like, it's not an accident how they're
put together. By the way, this is why we're talking
about reading the gospels and being familiar
with the story. The Matthew is putting things
in an order intentionally to help you see something
about how God is. He's for the outsider and he's
for the person on the outside, but he's also
speaking to the people of Israel because Jesus
is coming and he's redeeming Israel. And it's
through the Jews that all the world is going
to be blessed because Jesus is a Jewish Messiah.
And through him, we're going to find our identity.
and we're going to cast our identity onto him.
And it's going to open up to everybody. And then
suddenly like the kingdom of God is actually
going to come alive amongst us. And what does
that look like? It looks like when I have five
loaves and two fish, 5 ,000 people are fed. And
when that's done, we have more leftovers than
we started with originally. And it's not just
for the Jewish people. We know that the Jews,
if you're blessed, then you're going to bless.
Then he goes to the Gentiles and they have even
bigger baskets full. But the disciples struggle
in the middle of this. And I'm not going to be
too hard on them because I don't think the text
is too hard on them. But in the first story,
they're concerned about their fellow Jews. Exactly.
But in this story, they don't seem terribly concerned
about the Gentiles. And I mean, just going a
day without food versus three days. I mean, last
time you've gone three days with, you know. It's
been a long time. That's what I'm saying. But
it's a big difference and it's a lot more uncomfortable
than just skipping a meal or two. Yeah. And what
that tells you that these Gentiles are really
hungry for God. Now, this is not in the book
of Matthew. You're actually going to find this
in the other gospels, but the crowds that met
him at Gerasene, right? So Jesus came here before.
Yeah. Yep. He had crossed over to this side before
and he had met a man called Legion that was full
of many spirits. Yep. And it was in this region
that he met this man. And he cast those spirits
into a herd of pigs that went and threw themselves
into the deep. And the people were like, yeah,
we don't want you here. And Jesus gets ready
to go. And the guy who is delivered, he wants
to ride back with Jesus. And he said, and he
says, no, you need to go tell the good news.
When Jesus comes back. There's a crowd of at
least 4 ,000 people hungry and ready to experience
healing and teaching at the mouth of Jesus. Exactly.
Because God healed one person and they told their
testimony. How much does this guy really know
about Jesus? Yeah. He met him very briefly. You
know, there is a guy who drove out the kingdom
of darkness who restored my life and sanity and
who put me back on this path. His name is Jesus
and he's coming back. Exactly. And he had a,
you know, I'm pretty sure a good comprehension
of just how terrible his life was at that time
while he's been, you know, possessed and everything
else. And the people around him and his neighbors
all knew of him and the situation, you know,
and so it was very impactful to go see this same
person being who they knew him for however long
they knew him like that to now all of a sudden.
is unrecognizable. You know, I can guarantee
you, you know, and it's not like written in the
scripture or nothing else, but just what we know,
like I'm sure his, his health looked different.
I'm sure his skin complexion looked different.
I'm sure the way he carried himself, his posture,
everything about him, just when you would see
him would be like a whole new person. There's,
there's a story and I can't remember the name
of the evangelist, but he was a guy who he was
a, he was just a awful drunk, like drunk all
the time. Yep. And he got kicked out of a bar
one night. I was wandering the streets looking
for somewhere warm, stumbles into a church and
hears about Jesus. And they're like, if you want
him in your life, you come up. So he went up
like just completely sloshed out drunk and gave
his life to Jesus. Goes home, like, you know,
cries out his heart and gives his life to Jesus.
And then he goes home and he's just sleeping
it off. And the next day he wakes up and he's
like, doesn't necessarily remember what happened
exactly. Yeah. But he starts his day and the
sun feels a little bit brighter and the house
is a little bit dirty. And so he starts cleaning
up and he starts to like get himself ready. And
he goes to his bar that he's so familiar with,
the place that he's so familiar with. And the
people look way sadder. Yeah. And it's a little
bit darker and dingy. And he's like, what is
going on? Yeah. It's because Jesus entered his
life and things started changing. Yep. And it
was just, it was, he said yes. And Jesus took
up residence and things started to change. Absolutely.
And like, he went to the same places that he
was always familiar with. He can't even necessarily
remember, you know, I mean, later he's able to,
right. But, um, in the moment he can't remember.
And then he remembers going to a church who goes
back to the church and finds the guy who talked
to him. Right. It's an incredible story. And
I, and by the way, I apologize. I don't know
who that was. I can't remember. I've heard the
story a bunch of times, but I can't remember
who the evangelist is. Um, but Jesus changes
lives. Yep. And. If you have the spirit of God
inside of you, it's going to radically change
you. Absolutely. You're going to start living
a kingdom life. Like these things that we're
talking about in the sermon on the mountain and
the prayer and all these different things, this
kingdom life is something that comes when you
say yes to Jesus, because now he's the gateway.
He's the doorway to this kingdom life that we're
supposed to be living, which by the way is why
I think it's, it's a problem when we focus so
much on the cross is because I think the doorway
is really important, but you're supposed to live
in a house. Exactly. Right. It doesn't it doesn't
start in there. And like doors are really important.
I love doors. They get me into my house. They
keep the cold wind out. You know, they give me
security. Right. I trust in my door to keep the
weather outside. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But life
is meant to be lived in the house. By the way,
don't carry that analogy too far. It absolutely
breaks down. Right. But it's it's so important.
All right. So let me walk you through what's
happened so far. Jesus has fed John the Baptist
has died. He wanted to go off into a desolate
place. Crowds followed him. He had compassion
on him. He fed him. Exactly. He then sends the
disciples to the other side of the water to once
again look for a desolate place. He meets them
on the road or on the water. And they're like,
man, who is this guy? And then he has a conversation
with the Pharisees and law writers and law, what's
the word I want to use? I'm going to call them
lawyers. I'm going to call them lawyers. Perfect.
That's not a negative thing. They're people who
are familiar with the law, right? the scribes
and the Pharisees and they say, well, you know,
is it what goes into a person or comes out of
the person? Then he, uh, runs into a Canaanite
woman who's like, well, what about us? Can we
at least have the crumbs? Yep. And he's like,
ah, I love that question. Right. And so she gets
healed and then a bunch of people get healed
and then he has compassion on them because they've
been following for three days as he's teaching
them and walking around because who came before
the guy who was Legion. Right. And like, so he's
been preparing the way for Jesus to come and
actually speak, uh, to these people. And so then
he has compassion on them. He feels, them and
they have 4 ,000 people who are fed with a ton
of bread and things that are going to be left
over. Wouldn't you know, right after that, the
Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested
him by asking him to show a sign from heaven.
Okay. What has happened in these, in these five
days, Jesus has, it says he's been healing sick.
So just that sign from heaven, right? Then there's
bread multiplied. Yep. He walks on the water.
Yep. Right? Then he goes and drives out a demon
for the Canaanite woman. Yeah. Then he goes and
he's healing people in, I'm sorry, I forgot the
name of the place real quick here. Gennesaret.
Gennesaret. So he's healing people in Gennesaret.
So there, once again, the hand of God is moving.
And then he. Once again, take seven loaves and
he feeds 4 ,000 plus people again. And then on
the heels of this, show us a sign that says you're
from God. Yeah, because all that's not enough.
It's not enough. Yeah. And I'm actually going
to pause here because I'm just going to tell
you that for the legalistic mind, it's never
enough. Yeah, yeah. 100%. We have to be really
careful with our legalism. Like, by the way,
the legal portion of our life is really important.
But legalism will always lead to stifling life.
Oh, yeah, absolutely 100 % Yeah, I mean even
in uh, you know even in like the way that we
interpret and enforce laws, there's, there's
a thing called the letter of the law and the
spirit of the law. You know, like in other words,
what's the purpose of the law? Yeah. You violate
the purpose. Then yeah, you definitely need to
be held accountable in it. Yeah. You know, but
if you didn't violate the purpose in it, well,
there's a lot of room for grace and instruction
and teaching and admonishing and, and a way to
build you up. So that way you don't violate that
spirit. Yeah. Full side note. All right. Let
me read this to you here and see what you think.
He replied, when evening comes, you say it will
be fair weather for the sky is red. And in the
morning today is to be stormy for the sky is
red and overcast. You know how to interpret the
appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret
the signs of the times. A wicked and adulterous
generation looks for a sign, but none will be
given to you except the sign of Jonah. So Jesus
left them and went away. Okay. What's the sign
of Jonah? And this may not be something that
you know, but it's a really interesting thing.
Yeah, I actually can't call it right now. Correct
me if I'm wrong, but what I was told a lot growing
up is that the sign of Jonah is that Jesus is
going to be in the ground for three days and
he's going to rise up. Right. The fish, whale,
whatever, right? Right. That period of time before
he was released and then went and carried out
his message. Yeah. The problem is in Jewish antiquity,
that's not the sign of Jonah. The sign of the
Jonah is that Jonah went to the Ninevites who
were Samaritans, not Samaritans, Assyrians who
had just conquered their people, Sennacherib
and all those different things. He went to basically
a hostile country because God said, I don't want
to kill them. He preached them a half -hearted
message and all of the city got in sackcloth
and ashes and repented. So what is the sign of
Jonah? It's that the Gentiles believe. Now hear
this again because Jesus has just come from the
Gentiles, right? Yeah, yeah. You know how to
interpret the appearance of the sky, but you
cannot interpret the sign of the times. A wicked
and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but
none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.
In other words... Look over there. Exactly. Look
at these people. Look at these people who are
praising the God of Israel. Repenting, who are
exactly. Look at them. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And
by the way, people have pulled this and they
say, well, it's not good to ask God for a sign.
I was like, no, it's not good that when God is
moving and God is being gracious and God is healing
and God is providing for you to say, prove it.
Yeah, exactly. That is a childish thing to do.
It is a wicked thing to do that when God is moving
and God is comforting and God is redeeming and
God is purifying for us to sit there and go prove
it. Yeah, exactly. Right. A hundred percent.
Because like, yeah, we're to test all things
that we're told. Right. But when it's, but we've
been told how to do so, you know? And so if you
can see that, oh, these are miracles from God,
that God is moving, that none of this is violating
his word, his character, his nature. So we, and
everything is, is, is literally confirming him.
Well, then we know it's from him, you know, it's
not in conflict. So there's nothing more to say.
Well, prove. Yeah. Like, like, what are you,
what are you doing? Yeah, exactly. What are you
doing? Or it's like, okay, so I saw you did all
that, but now I need you to do it this way. No.
God, your word isn't enough is what we're saying.
Right. God, your action isn't enough. What you
already did for me is not enough. I need more.
Yeah. And that's like, hold on guys. It's rough.
Yeah. It's a rough place. And I think the thing
that's mostly rough about this is this is more
often than not us. Oh yeah. we love to paint
ourselves as like, Oh, we're the people being
ministered to and where the peace will be redeemed.
No, most of the time we're the Pharisees. Yeah.
A hundred percent. I'm very guilty. Most of the
time we're the Pharisees. Like my, my, my, unfortunately
I probably have talked more, more to God with
complaining and, you know, and lament that I
have, you know, um, honest, just like joyful
praise. And that's just an honest admonition
of myself. All right, last little piece here,
and then we're going to kind of bring this in
for a conversation. So when they went across
the lake, this is the disciples, the disciples
forgot to take bread. Be careful, Jesus said
to them, be on your guard against the yeast of
the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and other places
he's going to say of Herod, which, by the way,
definitely connects to Sadducees. Very much so.
Right? They discussed this among themselves and
said, it's because we didn't bring any bread.
After everything that's been going on. Aware
of their discussion, Jesus asked, you of little
faith, why are you talking among yourselves about
having no bread? Do you still not understand?
Don't you remember the five loaves for the 5
,000 and how many basketfuls you gathered or
the seven loaves for the 4 ,000? How many basketfuls
you gathered? How did you not? or how is it that
you don't understand that I was not talking to
you about bread, but be on your guard against
the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Then
they understood that he was telling them to guard
against the yeast, not against the yeast used
in bread, but against the teachings of the Pharisees
and the Sadducees. Okay. Exactly. Which there
is actually a, there's actually in a, in, I believe
it's in the gospel of Mark, but it might be Luke.
So just don't quote me on that. Um, there is
a story that follows us up and he says, all right,
do you see, but not understand. And then he goes
into a, into a village and he takes a blind man.
He leads them outside to where the disciples
are. Right. Right. Yeah. And he goes and he,
and he, uh, he puts a mixture on the guy's eyes
and he says, what do you see? He's like, why?
I don't see clearly. I see like. figures moving
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like,
and then he heals him completely and he sends
them out. Yeah. Right. Now people are like, well,
that's because Jesus, you know, he didn't, you
know, there's a process and like healing and
the, which by the way, maybe applicable, maybe
not, but definitely the point of this story is,
do you have eyes and can see, but don't understand.
So now he's taken a blind man. He's like physically
demonstrated. He's like, see, now he can see.
But he still can't see it because all he sees
is these random figures. Yeah. But Jesus is also
compassionate. He's not going to half heal somebody.
So he's going to send him out healed, right?
Exactly. He's using this as a time to really
teach those around him. Yeah. It's a physical
reminder. It's a physical healing to demonstrate.
He's like, no, like you have eyes. You need to
see. Stop trusting in like this random teaching
and trust in God. Exactly. Stop trusting in these
things that justify yourself. Trust in the things
that bring out God in you. Beware of the yeast
of the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Exactly.
A hundred percent. We talked briefly about this
Spencer and I, a few, a few months ago on the
podcast and this, this idea of beware of the
yeast of the Pharisees and of Herod. Right. So
beware of the things about being legalistic.
Yeah, exactly. Right. Beware this idea where
the law is the point. Yep. The law isn't the
point. Life is the point and law brings order
to the life. Exactly. Right. But the law is meant
to serve life, not smother it. A hundred percent.
Right. And by the way, in that way, I'm talking
about Torah. When you're missing the heart of
it. Right. And you start putting the emphasis
on a specific action and you're missing the entire
character of why even that action was ever even
brought up to begin with. You're missing the
point. And that's a big, big part of what's being
talked about here. And we see that like with,
for instance, like healing on what was on the
Sabbath or whatever, you know, and. in other
instances like that where it's like hey um you
yourself would do something similar under this
circumstance this is so much more important why
would you not do this i um this is this is uh
this is by the way it's close to controversial
as i'm going to get on the podcast um well but
about talking about. I had this conversation
and God did a dramatic healing in a person's
life. And they were explaining the story and
they were explaining who was preaching and like
the healing that God did internally in their
life when the person made a statement. And as
the person was talking about this dramatic thing
that God was doing in their life, someone else
in the room said, oh, I don't like that teacher.
They have bad ideas. While the healing was being
done. While the person is describing the move
of God in their life, where they're getting healed
for something that they've been struggling with
for years. Now that may very well be true. They
may have bad ideas. You know, when's not a time
to mention that right then when somebody is talking
about a breakthrough they're having with the
Holy Spirit. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. When they're
having a breakthrough with God, like healing
something that's been a long held wound in their
life. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's it's just going
back to the assassinating people's character
from the Sermon on the Mount part one mm -hmm
when we when we When we murder our brothers when
we murder their reputation when we come after
them as I get it's really problematic 100 % it's
really problematic because you know all of us
came from where we don't want to be and I'd say
arguably none of us should be comfortable with
where we are you know all of us should be you
know, having that continual refinement and, you
know, in our character and our walk with the
Lord, you know, and our knowledge and understanding
and everything. Right. We shouldn't just be like,
okay, with where we are. And, uh, and we're all
on a different part of the journey. Right. And
so with whether someone is, you know, perceivably
in our own understanding of right and wrong,
whatever else, and have, you know, judgmental
ways, right. Thinking, you know, hey, this person
should be here and they're there, but God is
still working on with them right here and they're
bringing them from here to here just because
you think they should be there, right? And God's
intent, like, you know, it's like we're kind
of like almost, it's hard to say it any other
way, but like kind of like playing God and judge
here, you know, in a way rather than seeing how
God's working through their life and further
refining them and bringing them through different
situations to get them to where they're supposed
to be. Yeah. I, we're in the, especially in American
culture, we're much more Greek and Roman than
we want to admit. Oh yeah. And we're trying to
make gods in our image. Oh yeah. A hundred percent.
Rather than recognizing that we're made in the
image of God. Right. We, if this is, I, I think
that if I said this out loud, most Christians
would deny it. But I think if you actually look
at the way that we live our faith, that it's
confirmed in the way, what we do. we would prefer
to be able to control God. Yeah, absolutely.
And tell you what God is going to do and not
do. A hundred percent. We definitely would love
to tell you what God says is okay and not okay.
Yeah. And like determining factor, this is black
and white. Yeah. And Christians are wildly uncomfortable
with gray. Yeah. I just don't think that that's
where God is. He says, he says, listen, if you
could see how much gray is in all of your lives,
you'd know that if I wasn't okay with gray, I'd
never get to spend any time with any of you.
What we're going to do is I'm going to be with
you. I'm going to walk with you. And first John
is going to say that if we have, uh, if we walk
in the light as he's in the light, then we have
fellowship with one another. Then the blood of
Christ purifies us from all unrighteousness.
When does it happen? As we walk. Yeah. So coming
back full circle to this thing that didn't have
to do with our meeting or our podcast, right?
Right. Why do you need to know the gospels? Why
do you need to know the narrative? Because you
need to understand how these stories fit together.
Even as we're talking here in this story, like
4 ,000 to 5 ,000, we didn't even talk about the
fact that Jesus is being positioned as a second
Moses. Correct. That, uh, there are, it's not
in this one, but in other, uh, other gospels
talk about, they sat him down in fifties and
one hundreds. Yep. Right. Like we didn't even
talk about that. Like, and so like, we just talked
about this briefly, just like reading the story
and actually reading what it says. Yep. Right.
Exactly. What does it actually say? Well, who
said what? Then who said what? Like who is the
one instigating this, this event? Why is Jesus
here? That 5 ,000 people are here. Exactly. Like
these kinds of questions, like knowing these,
like talking about these kinds of things are
going to help you understand the narrative of
what's going on because it actually informs the
story. It does. And it also shows the orchestration
of God, how he's working in ways that we don't
often see or understand. And so I'm sure the
disciples weren't thinking about, you know, how
the purpose of going over there to cast Legion
out. Right. to set the stage for a huge miracle.
And they're just like, man, Jesus doesn't like
demons or pigs, right? But really it's like,
no, there's, there's, there's something where,
uh, I don't know if God really has this intention
of redeeming us all and bringing us all into
tabernacle with him. And, uh, and they got this
really cool, uh, miracle that's going to be put
on display to confirm the, the inclusiveness
of Jews and Gentiles and how it's all going to
connect together and how now we can see both
the 4 ,000, uh, you know, in the 5 ,000, you
know, these are interconnected stories. They're
not just for them and them, but it's, it's God
bringing everything together. And like, there's
this mirroring almost going on. And, and I would
tell you that for a Christian, there is no us
or them. Exactly. by the way, hear that, hear
that in your politics. Yeah. Hear that in your
patriotism. Yeah. Hear that in your, uh, when
your enemies, your enemies are people that are
just friends of you or they're, they're people
that you're supposed to love. A house divided
cannot stand. Yeah. And God does not promote
division like that. Yeah. You know, sometimes
in families, you gotta have hard conversations.
but that's different. There's, but listen, family
doesn't, does not get cut out. And so like, I
just, these, these, these stories are cool and
we're going to, we're going to, we're going to
bring this in for a landing because I think we're
over an hour again. Um, we'll see what happens
when I actually cut it, but it'll probably end
up being a little bit longer and people will
just be like, Oh, Matthew Nunley's on. It's going
to be a long episode. But, uh, But it's such
a big deal that we see these stories. Because
I think the tendency with 5 ,000 and 4 ,000,
we get so focused on the miracle, we miss what
God's doing in the middle of it. And just the
setup, too. We miss the setup. And this goes
back to our American Western culture anyways.
It's like we have the end game in mind, right?
We see everything from the end state. You know,
like we make our aspirations usually aren't,
well, I want to go to, you know, like we usually
don't focus so much on like, you know. the process
of getting where we want to go we just want to
get to where we want to go and we got to get
through what we got to get through to get to
where we want to go and then we missed everything
in between and everything that we missed and
then now like we're looking back like oh man
that was actually a really good time and i really
wish i would have actually enjoyed that process
you know in the moment rather than just having
the hindsight 2020 retrospect of you know what
i had i have two kids six and four And there
are times, like, so my son and I say six, and
you're like, man, that's young. And I was like,
yeah, but I remember when he fit here. Right?
Yeah. And that never goes away. It never goes
away. No matter how old your kids are. And the
thing is that, can you imagine if, like, I didn't
treasure that time? Yeah. I didn't take a thousand
pictures. 10 ,000 pictures is what it feels like.
I was like, that time doesn't come back. No,
it doesn't. And, and now like the reality is
my son is six. I don't want to go back to him
being a baby. Right. I mean, there are, there
are times when it'd be nice to be able to just
pick him up. But, but the reality is I, I enjoy
who he is becoming. Exactly. And I want to know
him. I want to know who he's becoming and where
he's going. The, uh, I wrote about this in my
book. Um, one of the hardest things about, um,
parenting. Yeah. is um is watching your kids
grow up right and uh the best thing about parenting
is watching your kids grow up yeah yeah so the
worst and the best thing are the exact same thing
exactly i was like because there you can't get
time back that you have and so like learning
to treasure the moment i um I think we've had
this conversation and you can share a little
bit is like, is like, I am excited for the day
that I get to join Jesus in heaven. Oh yeah,
absolutely. But I'm, I'm also looking here and
I'm like, is this the time? like for my kids,
when, when I'm crawling around and learning how
to walk and all those kinds of things, is this
the time that God is going to treasure? And then
I'm going to treasure looking back on the fact
that I like this life is when I got to know my
father and my father got to know me so that as
I graduate and I want to try to cut it short,
maybe I should just learn to enjoy every moment
of it right now. Right now. It's really good.
Yeah. Cause, uh, It really is. It gives a perspective
that, you know, a lot of people, and there's
a lot of people that do struggle with just the
harshness of life and whatnot, you know, but
just like anything else, there's a purpose. Yeah.
There's a growing, there's a, there's, there
is always good, even in the midst of chaos and
destruction and everything else. And God uses
everything. Yeah. You know, and. And yeah, no,
it's, it's, it's really something worth looking
at and, and slowing down and kind of taking a
step back and seeing the parallels, you know,
like God is, he's given us imagery of marriage
throughout the Bible. He's given us imagery of,
you know, parenthood with our, you know, relationship
and everything else. I just always think about
how excited I was to be an adult. And then when
I was an adult, I'm like, I'm so glad I spent
time being a kid. Yeah, exactly. You know, there
are good things to look forward to, but there
are good things to enjoy now. Yeah. So with that
being said, if you got kids, go spend some time
with your kids. 100%. Spend some time with your
wife. Spend time with people who you value and
who value you. Go and take that feeling that
you get when you spend time with them and carry
it to a world that's broken. Yeah. Be interruptible.
A hundred percent. Read the Bible, hear it in
the context and see these stories of Jesus and
actually put like, understand like where these
stories are going. Like keep joining us on this
journey. We love it. We're going to keep going
through the life of Jesus. We're not going to
share every story because I think that podcast
season would be like 80 ,000 episodes long. There's
so many things that we want to talk about even
today that we haven't even gotten into. But I
also really want to reinforce, I think it's important.
Be interruptible. Like when I learned to be.
interruptible that has been one of the single
most positively impactful experiences of actually
living out a christian walk that just took my
relationship with god to a different level uh
was when i started to learn to allow god to interrupt
me as horrible as that is to say it's just the
reality of it you know like His will be done,
not mine. So let yourself be interrupted, everyone.
When God's moving, like it's going to work out.
And sometimes we're asked to make sacrifices.
Sometimes we're asked to miss out on certain
things. But it's everything that when we're letting
God lead us, it is 100 % to accomplish his purpose,
his will. And ultimately it's for our good and
his glory. And that is so much more valuable.
than whatever, you know, natural thing that you're
focused on. So many of these stories that we
just covered today are about Jesus being interrupted.
Exactly. Right? The temple's there. Well, so
like, he gets interrupted when he's going to
go try to go to a quiet place. He sends his disciples
across. He's walking across the water. They interrupt
him as he's on a stroll. Yeah, exactly. He gets
to where he's going. The Pharisees come and interrupt
him to test him on the law. He's walking to teach
people in Geraset, right? And this Canaanite
woman interrupts him. And he's like, yes! Right?
Like, uh, allow the kingdom to break through.
Exactly. And that's how you make divine appointments.
We've all heard the term divine appointment.
It was a divine appointment of God. Correct.
That you met because you allowed yourself to
be interrupted. Yeah. All right. Well, we're
going to cut it there. This has been a fun episode
of Love and Context. And you can find us at loveandcontext
.gmail .com or you can contact us there. You
can find us at Love and Context on almost every
social media platform when I remember to post
clips. And then... We love emails to be at...
Bencer. Yes. I have gotten some emails from somebody
that say to Bencer. So Matthew, thanks for being
with us and we'll catch up with you guys next
time. God bless you. And that's a wrap for today's
episode of Love and Context. We hope this conversation
encouraged you and gave you fresh insights into
how we can better love God and others through
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