WEBVTT

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Welcome to Season 3 of Love & Context. This season,

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we're exploring the life of Jesus step -by -step

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and uncovering what His story teaches us about

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loving God and others. Here on Love & Context,

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we're all about having real conversations about

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how to live out that love in practical, everyday

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ways, and understanding the Bible in its full

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context. We're so glad you're here. Let's dive

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into Season 3 of Love & Context. Welcome to the

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Love and Context Podcast with Ben Edwards and

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today, Les Kronk. Wonderful. Glad to be here,

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Ben. Now, the ironic thing about this is I actually

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think this is going to be the first episode that

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airs that you're actually guesting on. Correct.

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I was thinking that. Yes, indeed. But this is

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actually like the sixth one you've recorded.

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Right. Yeah, because we got all out of order.

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So I'm going to look a lot better on my first

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one than I will on later ones. Yeah, they're

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going to be like, man, his quality really went

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down dramatically. They're like, I don't know

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what happened between that first episode. He

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was on it. Yeah, he was on it. So we're in season

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three. life of Jesus. And today we're actually

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talking about the visit of the Magi. That is

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in Matthew chapter two. We're going to go through

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verses one through 12. And we're actually just,

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why don't we just open up? We'll just jump into

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that. Let's see here. What are you reading out

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of? Oh, I'm in the wrong. I'm in message. Let

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me switch back. I looked up a different verse.

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Hey, listen, I know there are listeners who disagree

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with me, but I actually really like the message.

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I do. I look at it as almost a commentary. Yeah.

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And so it gives me a different perspective, but

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I was trying to find, I saw a verse online and

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it didn't seem right to me. And I wanted to see

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if I could find where it was. And basically it

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wasn't right. You know, it was interesting. I

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actually, so one of the reasons I talk about

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the message is I've actually used it when I'm

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talking to people who have no perspective on

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the Bible at all. Um, so I had a conversation

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with a friend of mine who's a Jehovah's witness

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and was struggling with like what they're teaching

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on Sunday mornings versus what, what the Bible

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actually says. And then they have their translation.

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They're like, I can't understand this translation.

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I said, Hey, have you ever tried reading the

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message? Yeah. Right. And, uh, they're like,

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no, what is that? And I, so I showed them how

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on you Bible, how do you pull it up? Right. And

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so they pulled it up and I said, this is not

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one that I study from, but it's kind of like

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more of a paraphrased version, trying to help

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you get the broad ideas of what's going on here.

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And, uh, so I, I gave that to them six months

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later, we get together and they're like, yeah,

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I was reading these stories. And they're like,

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I would read them in like the, the, the one we

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have. And then I read them in the message and

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the one, the message I'm like, oh, that makes

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way more sense with what's going on. And so they're

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getting like this context. And, uh, so then we

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were actually having, we'll have some real fun

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conversations about, um, you know, they, they

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came to me and they're like, Hey, I don't know

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if you, I think Jesus might be God. And I was

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like, Oh. This is so surprising to me. Once you

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start understanding the word. The first Bible

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I read from cover to cover was a living Bible.

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Yeah. That was given to me by a friend for a

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high school graduation. Is the living Bible,

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is that a New Living Translation? New Living

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Translation is what it's called now. It was a

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living Bible back then when it first came out.

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Yeah. But it was more of a story, you know, paraphrase.

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Yeah, it is. It is closer. So, and just for our

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listeners, we've talked about this before. Probably

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the most literal word. word in the English translation

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is the NASB. So if you're reading the NASB and

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you're like, man, this is really clunky. That's

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why it's clunky because it's more of a word for

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word translation. So it's going to be a lot more

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accurate as far as the individual words, but

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not necessarily capturing the ideas. Right. So

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whereas you get something with the like the message

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is going to be all the way on the other side

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where it's more of paraphrasing ideas. And so

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it's not necessarily going to get into the specific

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words or the things that are actually in the

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text, but it's going to be translating those

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words and ideas into phrases for people to understand.

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Right. And that's when I when I'm looking into

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a verse, I will read four or five different versions

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to see how it is. paraphrased or interpreted

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in different ways to help give me some better

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perspective. At our small group on Tuesday, people

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got to look behind the curtain because they were

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asking about a specific word that was used in

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Ephesians from a video we were doing. And so

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I actually went to Blue Letter Bible and pulled

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up Ephesians, went to the root words and showed

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them how it was used and the usage and how often

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it's used in each context and how you can kind

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of like actually see what, like where contextually

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it would make sense to be translated one way

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or another. And they're like, I didn't even know

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this website exists. Shout out Blue Letter Bible,

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by the way. They're a nonprofit and they do a

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ton of good stuff. So if you're looking for somewhere

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to throw your money for organizations that sell

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for free, Blue Letter Bible is a good one. It

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is. It is. Yeah, they do a lot. They're very

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helpful for people studying the Bible. And I

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even saw some interesting word usage in the passages

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we're talking about today. Yeah. You know, so.

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All right, well, let's jump in here. I'm going

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to, why don't you read us one through, read one

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through 12. Okay. In chapter two. After Jesus

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was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time

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of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem

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and asked, Where is the one who has been born

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King of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose,

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and have come to worship him. When King Herod

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heard this, he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem

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with him. When he had called together all the

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people's chief priests and teachers of the law,

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he asked them where the Messiah was to be born.

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In Bethlehem in Judea, they replied, for this

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is what the prophet has written. But you, Bethlehem,

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in the land of Judah, are by no means least among

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the rulers of Judah. For out of you will come

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a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel. Then

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Herod called the Magi secretly and found out

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from them the exact time the star had appeared.

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He sent them to Bethlehem and said, go and search

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carefully for the child. As soon as you find

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him, report to me so that I too may go and worship

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him. After they had heard from the king, after

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they heard the king, they went on their way,

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and the star they had seen when it rose went

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ahead of them until it stopped over the place

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where the child was. When they saw the star,

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they were overjoyed. On coming to the house,

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they saw that the child with his mother Mary,

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and they bowed down and worshipped him. Then

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they opened their treasures and presented him

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with the gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.

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And having been warned in a dream not to go back

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to Herod, they returned to their country by another

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route. Love that. All right. So let's jump in

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here, which is a couple of things that are interesting

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here. So when you just hear that story, some

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things that pop out to you. Yeah. Um, something

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that popped out of me is, is we've been doing

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it all wrong for all these years. Yeah. How do

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you say that? The three wise men were not in

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the manger. Yeah. I mean, all of the manger scenes

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we have at Christmas time, this, they show up

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at his house as he's a child. Yeah. You know,

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there's conversation that they would say probably

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when he would arise, it'd be somewhere around

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like somewhere between zero and two. Right. Right.

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Um, not, not when he's born. The ones who are

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actually present when he's born. Is a shepherd.

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Shepherd. Well, not when he's born. They're probably

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not walking in as they're giving birth. But closer

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to the time of the birth be the shepherds, which,

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by the way, is fitting with Jesus welcoming the

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least of these. Right. Right. But also these

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these wise men is what we call them. Magi is

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the word that is actually it's a joy in Greek

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and it's likely astrologers or scholars in the

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East, likely Persian or Babylonian. I thought

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is interesting. They say we followed the star,

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right? That's always intrigued me. They were

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astrologers and they saw a star Yeah, and there

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is a conversation and I'm actually going to link

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in this episode over to an episode of Baymaw

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podcast Where Marty will talk about this a little

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bit, but there is actually scholarship in Persia

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and Babylon and it has to do with when they were

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looking at the stars and they're looking at the

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sky there's like this cartouche area like when

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they when they're looking and they're like if

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you imagine like a sextant out at sea they had

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a similar thing, like when they would look at

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the sky and they had a, they watched this star

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and they believe that when a certain star hits

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a certain spot, that's something of divine significance

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is happening there. And there's suggestion that

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during the time that Jesus is born, that this

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star actually would have been present in this

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spot. And that's actually what prompts them to

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go and figure out where this is going. I still

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don't know what that means. Like it was over

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the. It was over the city. They didn't hover

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over the city. I mean, it took them right to

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the house, the way that sort of reads. Yeah,

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so it was some sort of phenomenon that they were

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able to interpret as people who look at the stars

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all the time, but also wasn't super obvious to

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the people of Bethlehem because there's no mention

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where they're like, hey, remember that weird

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star? And so it's something like they're capable.

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And I think that's one of the reasons I stress

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they're astronomers. So they see something that

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we wouldn't necessarily normally see. They're

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looking for things we're not normally looking

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for. Yeah, we're in Alaska. And so it's especially

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like a small town in Alaska. So we can at times

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get out into the woods where there's no light

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pollution. And you get out tonight and like the

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stars come out and it is just. It's phenomenal.

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So many like it's so bright. There's so many

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stars moving out there because you're not having

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all the light pollution from the from the cities

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interfering. And so if I was, you know, I have

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to port myself back. There's no light pollution

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at this time, aside from people's fires and things

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like that. There's no streetlights. There's no

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headlights. There's no radio towers. Any of these

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things going on during this time. So night is

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dark, but it's also very bright when it's when

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it's in the desert. And so you have this overwhelming

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ability to see the sky. Right. And like now I

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still struggle when it's really dark and like

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the stars are really bright to find the constellations

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quickly. Right. Yeah. You know, when there's

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some light pollution, it's easy enough because

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they're brighter and you can actually see them

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like they're the ones that pop out. But when

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it's really dark and you can see everything.

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Yeah. They just kind of blend in. They just kind

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of blend in. And so there's something about these

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guys, their profession that they're able to see

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not only they're like, hey, this is different.

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This is something different, which I think is

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a profound thing about like how God also uses

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creation to draw people to himself. Correct.

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Right. Go ahead. And these were not Jewish people.

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Nope. These are Persians, Babylonians. You know,

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it's possible that they knew of the God of Yahweh

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because you got to remember they were in captivity

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in Persia. So it's possible that they're familiar

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with them. But that's not. They came looking

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for the king of the Jews. So obviously they had

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some familiarity with Judaism. Yeah. And putting

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this contextually where it lies, they would have

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some sort of context. There is a song that we

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sing. And by the way, I'm not downing the song

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because I love it. The We Three Kings. Right.

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I love that song. These aren't kings. No. They're

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not kings. And there's not three of them. The

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only reason we associate three is because there's

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three gifts. Three gifts, but there were probably

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more of them. Yeah, there could literally be

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like 15 of them. It's also unlikely that you're

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going to take a carrier van from one country

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to another with three people. Right. Because

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that's not very safe. No. There's these things

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called bandits, and they don't like, they like

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to take people's stuff. And you're carrying high

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value stuff. Yes. When you're like, because gold,

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frankincense, you know, ironically, the least

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expensive out of them is probably the gold. Right,

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exactly. Frankincense, which is a wonderful.

00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:28.039
I would say oil and medicine even today. Yeah.

00:11:29.139 --> 00:11:31.139
Later, Christian tradition is actually going

00:11:31.139 --> 00:11:34.179
to call them Kaspar, Melchior, and Balthazar.

00:11:34.940 --> 00:11:38.299
I do think Balthazar is an interesting one because

00:11:38.299 --> 00:11:42.220
of the name of Daniel when he was in Persia.

00:11:43.659 --> 00:11:46.360
It's not the same because it was Balthazar, but

00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:49.639
this is a very similar type of name. So I wonder

00:11:49.639 --> 00:11:52.220
if there's some significance in the reason church

00:11:52.220 --> 00:11:54.710
tradition would have named them like that. I

00:11:54.710 --> 00:11:57.250
just saw it as they grabbed some Persian names.

00:11:58.049 --> 00:12:01.870
They grabbed some Persian names. Because that's

00:12:01.870 --> 00:12:04.059
where they were from. What's your name? I'll

00:12:04.059 --> 00:12:06.620
take that. That's mine. No, I'm just kidding.

00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:10.019
All right, so going back to the star, I actually

00:12:10.019 --> 00:12:11.820
did look up in a couple of different ways that

00:12:11.820 --> 00:12:13.820
people have interpreted it. It's either that

00:12:13.820 --> 00:12:16.340
there was like a planetary conjunction, for example,

00:12:16.340 --> 00:12:20.139
like Jupiter and Saturn aligning in 7 to 6 BCE.

00:12:20.740 --> 00:12:26.100
What happened in the stars? I can speak. There

00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:28.840
could have been like a comet or a supernova that

00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.179
was actually moving towards a specific location

00:12:31.179 --> 00:12:34.120
or a supernatural. natural event created by God.

00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:37.820
And if you believe any of those, great. The reality

00:12:37.820 --> 00:12:40.259
is that we know that God did something special

00:12:40.259 --> 00:12:44.000
that drew them and something that they knew what

00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:47.419
was going on. Right. Exactly. Anything else that

00:12:47.419 --> 00:12:49.120
kind of jumped out at you that you were thinking

00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:52.659
was really strange? Well, that these were non

00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:55.639
-Jewish people that came to worship Jesus. Yeah.

00:12:57.899 --> 00:13:02.570
That recognized who he was before. The Jewish

00:13:02.570 --> 00:13:05.730
people did. Yeah. I think, I think there's something

00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:09.490
really interesting about, um, I was talking about

00:13:09.490 --> 00:13:11.090
prophetic gifts with somebody and I was talking

00:13:11.090 --> 00:13:12.570
about like the movement of the Holy spirit through,

00:13:12.610 --> 00:13:14.409
through prophetic, uh, through the prophetic.

00:13:14.889 --> 00:13:19.070
And, uh, sometimes in the, I'm going to call

00:13:19.070 --> 00:13:22.539
it non -churched world. Like people who are not

00:13:22.539 --> 00:13:25.460
familiar, like didn't grow up in church. They're

00:13:25.460 --> 00:13:27.559
actually more receptive to the divine wonders

00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:30.200
and spirituality and like the power that comes

00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:31.360
from the Holy Spirit and things that happen.

00:13:31.899 --> 00:13:33.879
They're actually more receptive than that than

00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.139
sometimes people come from the church. They're

00:13:36.139 --> 00:13:38.379
not tainted by all of the sideboards that the

00:13:38.379 --> 00:13:42.080
church puts up or the rules the church puts up.

00:13:42.139 --> 00:13:44.720
I think their eyes can be more freely looking

00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.980
for the signs that God puts up. And there's also

00:13:47.980 --> 00:13:51.879
like this. You think about like people talking

00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:55.000
about crystals and Kabbalah and Reiki and like

00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.799
all these different things even yoga right this

00:13:57.799 --> 00:13:59.340
whole thing about like they want to empty themself

00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:02.240
and be filled with like inner peace or They're

00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.379
they're praying to crystals to try to and they're

00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:06.659
they're trying to engage something because they

00:14:06.659 --> 00:14:09.600
know we are spiritual beings right and so the

00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:11.440
nature of us is that we're gonna try to engage

00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:15.110
with something spiritual And, uh, we talked about,

00:14:15.149 --> 00:14:16.730
well, actually we will talk about in a couple

00:14:16.730 --> 00:14:19.110
of weeks. So, uh, I just realized that we're

00:14:19.110 --> 00:14:21.309
out of order here, but we did, we, we will talk

00:14:21.309 --> 00:14:22.610
about in a couple of weeks, like in the temptation

00:14:22.610 --> 00:14:25.490
of Jesus, there is this person, the, um, the

00:14:25.490 --> 00:14:28.669
Satan that is going to, he's going to be a deceiver.

00:14:28.730 --> 00:14:30.830
He's going to be an accuser. He's going to manipulate

00:14:30.830 --> 00:14:34.289
situations. And when the church abdicates the

00:14:34.289 --> 00:14:38.090
responsibility to carry the Holy Spirit, it leaves

00:14:38.090 --> 00:14:43.120
room for the inauthentic to be pursued. Right.

00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:46.379
Yep. And and I do think that you have to be careful

00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:47.940
inside of the church to make sure you're always

00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:49.960
pursuing God and not pursuing gifts. Correct.

00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.059
Right. You're pursuing the miracle maker, not

00:14:52.059 --> 00:14:55.399
the miracle itself. Right. But when we abandon

00:14:55.399 --> 00:14:58.799
our role as God's hands and feet in the world

00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.840
to bring liberation to the poor, to bring healing

00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.990
to the broken, to bring food to the hungry. It

00:15:04.990 --> 00:15:08.129
leaves room for the inauthentic to step in and

00:15:08.129 --> 00:15:10.450
lead people even further away from the kingdom

00:15:10.450 --> 00:15:13.570
of God. Right. And that's problematic. And, and

00:15:13.570 --> 00:15:14.950
what you like, what we see here with the Magi

00:15:14.950 --> 00:15:18.490
is they are clued into the spiritual. And so

00:15:18.490 --> 00:15:19.909
they're actually drawn and they actually meet

00:15:19.909 --> 00:15:21.509
Jesus in flesh, even though they're not even

00:15:21.509 --> 00:15:24.070
Jews. Right. Right. Because they're already clued

00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:25.730
into the spiritual and they say, Hey, we know

00:15:25.730 --> 00:15:27.970
God exists. And this is something that we've

00:15:27.970 --> 00:15:31.029
never seen before. Correct. And, uh, and then

00:15:31.029 --> 00:15:34.129
there's this. Broad invitation then to step from

00:15:34.129 --> 00:15:36.549
that and then invite people into something else.

00:15:36.669 --> 00:15:38.870
I actually thought something that sounded really

00:15:38.870 --> 00:15:40.289
interesting to me and I just want to talk about

00:15:40.289 --> 00:15:42.289
for a second. It says, when King Herod heard

00:15:42.289 --> 00:15:45.210
this, he was disturbed and all Jerusalem with

00:15:45.210 --> 00:15:47.840
him. Yeah, that was interesting. When I read

00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:49.100
that, it's like that kind of jumped out at me.

00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:51.320
It's like all Jerusalem, how did they find out

00:15:51.320 --> 00:15:53.620
in the last, you know, it's not like they all

00:15:53.620 --> 00:15:56.600
got on Facebook and saw it. Well, so I think

00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.220
Herod is disturbed by the fact that he said he's

00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:01.080
going to be born the king of the Jews, right?

00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.659
He is, yeah. That's his thing. Do you think maybe

00:16:03.659 --> 00:16:05.480
all Jerusalem is disturbed because they say we

00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:07.820
saw his star when it rose and we've come to worship

00:16:07.820 --> 00:16:10.100
him? Like maybe they're disturbed because they

00:16:10.100 --> 00:16:12.559
didn't see the star? That I would think that,

00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:16.070
yeah. why did these outsiders come and tell us

00:16:16.070 --> 00:16:18.090
something that we should have seen? And I think

00:16:18.090 --> 00:16:19.789
one of the things I do want to point out that

00:16:19.789 --> 00:16:21.610
a lot of times when it says like Herod and all

00:16:21.610 --> 00:16:23.289
Jerusalem with him, it actually means the people

00:16:23.289 --> 00:16:27.460
who are around him. And so that would have been

00:16:27.460 --> 00:16:30.159
Herod's court. Now, last season when we were

00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:31.879
closing up, we actually talked about Herod the

00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:34.379
Great, who is a guy of questionable character.

00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.620
Very questionable character. Incredibly wealthy.

00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:41.360
So he was largely involved in the spice trade,

00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:42.799
which, by the way, totally makes sense that the

00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:44.559
Magi are bringing frankincense and myrrh, which

00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:47.320
are going to be in that type of trade. The first

00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:49.820
person they go to talk to. is going to be Herod

00:16:49.820 --> 00:16:51.919
because he's going to be the point of contact

00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:54.679
with Persia and Babylon. They would have been

00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:56.480
very familiar with him. They're like, well, he

00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:59.000
probably knows what's going on. He's in charge

00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:03.399
of Israel. And so they go and talk to him and

00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:04.519
he's like, what do you mean king of the Jews?

00:17:04.619 --> 00:17:06.079
Because that's what Herod wanted to be. He wanted

00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:09.920
to be king of the Jews. He was an Edomian, which

00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:11.859
meant that he was of mixed heritage, but he was

00:17:11.859 --> 00:17:13.819
partially Jewish. But he wanted to be recognized

00:17:13.819 --> 00:17:15.759
as the king of the Jews, but he was so brutal.

00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:18.420
He was, yeah. And he didn't follow Torah. And

00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:20.519
so like he kept trying to do things to ingratiate

00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:23.240
himself to people, but they didn't accept it.

00:17:24.460 --> 00:17:26.400
They're going to make mention here in the story

00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.180
that Herod dies. But one of the things we talked

00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:31.779
about last season is when Herod dies, because

00:17:31.779 --> 00:17:33.940
he knows people aren't going to mourn him. He

00:17:33.940 --> 00:17:36.400
actually gathers up all the sages and the teachers

00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:38.240
and like all these people that are really well

00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:40.339
thought of the teach Torah and he imprisons them

00:17:40.339 --> 00:17:42.779
and he orders their execution on the day that

00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:45.380
he dies. Right. Right. He says, when I die, I

00:17:45.380 --> 00:17:47.660
want them all to be executed on that day so that.

00:17:48.059 --> 00:17:52.339
The entire country will mourn when I die. Okay,

00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:55.079
Herod. Wow, yeah. It was actually Herod's wife

00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.619
who, once he died, she goes and she releases

00:17:57.619 --> 00:17:59.460
them and gets them all out before the order is

00:17:59.460 --> 00:18:01.740
carried out. Oh, good. And so there's a great

00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:04.619
liberation that takes place. So Herod the Great

00:18:04.619 --> 00:18:06.099
is not a good person, and by the way, neither

00:18:06.099 --> 00:18:09.180
are his kids. No. There's a lot of backstabbing

00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:10.440
and things that end up going with that, too.

00:18:11.140 --> 00:18:15.769
So they bring these three gifts. The gifts, real

00:18:15.769 --> 00:18:18.410
quick, gold is typically a gift that's going

00:18:18.410 --> 00:18:21.029
to be given to royalty, right? Frankincense is

00:18:21.029 --> 00:18:24.569
used in worship during this time. And myrrh is

00:18:24.569 --> 00:18:27.910
actually a spice for embalming. Now, people have

00:18:27.910 --> 00:18:30.490
then said, hey, you know, so this is recognizing

00:18:30.490 --> 00:18:33.809
as king of kings. This is Jesus' divine nature

00:18:33.809 --> 00:18:36.529
and priestly role. And this is also looking forward

00:18:36.529 --> 00:18:40.400
to Jesus' suffering and death. I don't know if

00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:43.279
I'm ready to jump there because these wise men

00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:45.279
do recognize the king of Jews is going to be

00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.660
born. But myrrh is used for a lot of different

00:18:48.660 --> 00:18:51.339
things. Correct. And it's just a very valuable

00:18:51.339 --> 00:18:55.160
spice. And I think that retroactively, it's just

00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:59.779
an extra little piece of symbolism. And I do

00:18:59.779 --> 00:19:01.740
think that's probably why Matthew includes it

00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:04.019
in his gospel, but it's not necessarily why they

00:19:04.019 --> 00:19:06.059
brought it. Correct. I agree with that because

00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:08.640
myrrh is actually, and Frank says both are fairly

00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.200
healing in their properties and used for other

00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.299
things just than that. So I don't know if the

00:19:14.299 --> 00:19:16.599
Magi came knowing Jesus was going to be killed

00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:21.230
and brought symbolism for that. Maybe God directed

00:19:21.230 --> 00:19:23.529
it that way. I don't know, but I agree. And like

00:19:23.529 --> 00:19:25.670
we've said before, if you think that, great.

00:19:25.890 --> 00:19:27.990
We love that for you. And there's no reason to

00:19:27.990 --> 00:19:30.650
sit here and argue about it. Exactly. But I think

00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:32.609
sometimes what I don't want to do is we need

00:19:32.609 --> 00:19:34.470
to also understand that Matthew is writing this

00:19:34.470 --> 00:19:37.549
with the past in mind. So then he says, oh, you

00:19:37.549 --> 00:19:39.130
know what? They brought gold, frankincense, and

00:19:39.130 --> 00:19:41.650
myrrh. I'm going to include those details because

00:19:41.650 --> 00:19:45.589
that's tasty for people. Right? And then, of

00:19:45.589 --> 00:19:47.390
course, we say three people because of that.

00:19:48.950 --> 00:19:51.369
So coming back to Herod again, they come to Herod

00:19:51.369 --> 00:19:52.950
and they say, hey, where's the king of the Jews

00:19:52.950 --> 00:19:57.559
going to be born? Right. And he's like, okay,

00:19:57.579 --> 00:20:00.480
that's, that's quite the question, you know?

00:20:00.980 --> 00:20:03.460
And, uh, he's like, that's me, but I'm here.

00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:05.319
Yeah, I know. And, and one of the, one of the

00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:08.279
things that we see here with, uh, with, I've,

00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:10.319
I've talked about how Jesus is stepping in as

00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:12.339
a second Moses. And I think we will talk about

00:20:12.339 --> 00:20:14.680
it in the next couple of weeks too. Um, but Jesus

00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:17.099
is stepping in as a second Moses is one of the

00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:19.500
situations that ends up happening here is Herod

00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:23.039
freaks out when the Magi don't come back. Right.

00:20:23.380 --> 00:20:25.440
And he goes and has every kid under two killed.

00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:28.180
Right. And if you don't see the connection to

00:20:28.180 --> 00:20:32.640
the Exodus, then you should. Especially since,

00:20:32.819 --> 00:20:36.819
where do they go? Where does they go to Egypt?

00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:41.079
They go to Egypt. Yeah. And where is Moses taken

00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.880
to? When he's put in the basket, he's taken into

00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:47.549
Pharaoh's household. The king of Egypt, right?

00:20:48.130 --> 00:20:51.369
And then also when they go to do their ministry,

00:20:51.569 --> 00:20:55.190
Jesus then goes and leaves Egypt. Leaves Egypt.

00:20:55.450 --> 00:20:58.410
Right? Before he begins his ministry. Moses also

00:20:58.410 --> 00:21:00.690
leaves Egypt before he comes back to lead them

00:21:00.690 --> 00:21:02.630
out of captivity, right? So there's a lot of

00:21:02.630 --> 00:21:05.650
dual symbolism going on here and why Matthew's

00:21:05.650 --> 00:21:09.250
including these details. Because we have... Uh,

00:21:09.369 --> 00:21:10.950
we have another episode we're going to be recording

00:21:10.950 --> 00:21:12.109
in the future where we're talking about these

00:21:12.109 --> 00:21:13.890
12 years where we don't know what happened. No,

00:21:13.950 --> 00:21:16.430
18 years. We don't know what happens with Jesus.

00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:19.769
And, uh, we're like, man, we really could use

00:21:19.769 --> 00:21:21.470
some context about what does Jesus look like

00:21:21.470 --> 00:21:24.170
a teen as a teenager? Yeah. No kidding. How good,

00:21:24.170 --> 00:21:27.650
how good of a carpenter was Jesus? Uh, that is

00:21:27.650 --> 00:21:29.890
like, you know, those are quick questions. Um,

00:21:30.069 --> 00:21:32.150
but Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, they're like,

00:21:32.150 --> 00:21:33.900
well, these aren't important stories. Right.

00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:36.640
And, uh, not because we don't think they're important,

00:21:36.740 --> 00:21:37.960
but because they didn't think it was important

00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.140
to understanding Jesus's mission in the, in the

00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:42.420
kingdom of heaven. So when the details are there,

00:21:42.539 --> 00:21:44.000
we actually need to talk about them because they're

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:46.960
important. Gotcha. So they, they say, they, they

00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:49.240
ask him where, where the King, King of the Jews

00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:51.180
is going to be born. And, and so Herod goes and

00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:53.079
talks to his guys and he says, Hey, where's the,

00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:55.220
where they prophesied to actually be born. Right.

00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:58.380
And he quotes from, do you know which book? Um,

00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:02.240
It's an Old Testament prophetic book starting

00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:07.220
with M. Yeah. It's Micah. Micah. Micah. And Micah

00:22:07.220 --> 00:22:12.140
is a lot about, it's being written about learning

00:22:12.140 --> 00:22:14.819
how to walk in justice, right? About learning

00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:18.220
how to, Micah 6 .8 is one of the more familiar

00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:20.160
passages. I probably just quoted that wrong,

00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:22.440
by the way. He has shown you, O man, what is

00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.049
good. to do justly, love mercy, walk humbly with

00:22:25.049 --> 00:22:27.369
your God, right? And so they're actually quoting

00:22:27.369 --> 00:22:30.309
from the book of Micah, talking about that, where

00:22:30.309 --> 00:22:32.430
they then interpret this as messianic passage,

00:22:32.569 --> 00:22:35.430
that the person who is going to literally put

00:22:35.430 --> 00:22:37.309
Torah on display is going to lead us back to

00:22:37.309 --> 00:22:39.230
who we're supposed to be, is going to be born

00:22:39.230 --> 00:22:42.910
in Bethlehem, the house of bread, right? I love...

00:22:43.150 --> 00:22:44.509
That they're born in the house of bread. House

00:22:44.509 --> 00:22:46.710
of bread. Is what Bethlehem means. That's what

00:22:46.710 --> 00:22:49.250
Bethlehem means. So there is like this connection

00:22:49.250 --> 00:22:51.250
with manna in the desert, this connection with

00:22:51.250 --> 00:22:55.329
the home of David, right? There's this connection

00:22:55.329 --> 00:22:58.589
with Moses, right? There's this connection with

00:22:58.589 --> 00:23:02.049
justice. Yeah. I mean, Matthew, if you are a

00:23:02.049 --> 00:23:04.849
Jew, he is laying it on thick. Gotcha. He's laying

00:23:04.849 --> 00:23:07.910
it on super thick. And he's like. I'm trying

00:23:07.910 --> 00:23:10.789
to tell you who Jesus is. Right. He is the bread.

00:23:10.849 --> 00:23:12.529
I mean, John is going to say this plainly in

00:23:12.529 --> 00:23:14.329
his gospel, but Matthew's like, he is the bread

00:23:14.329 --> 00:23:16.970
that came from heaven. Yeah. Right. He is like

00:23:16.970 --> 00:23:19.470
a new King in the line of David. This, this golden

00:23:19.470 --> 00:23:23.150
years we have, he is the second Moses. He is

00:23:23.150 --> 00:23:26.069
the Torah, you know, and he, and he, you know,

00:23:26.069 --> 00:23:28.009
and he draws in these scriptures to support that

00:23:28.009 --> 00:23:29.710
all these scriptures and all these images. He's

00:23:29.710 --> 00:23:31.170
like everything that's come before it. He is

00:23:31.170 --> 00:23:33.609
going to bring justice. We talked about Matthew

00:23:33.609 --> 00:23:36.710
is going to be, It's going to be gospel focused

00:23:36.710 --> 00:23:39.589
a lot on the people who are excluded, the people

00:23:39.589 --> 00:23:41.809
who are on the outside. Not surprising that Matthew,

00:23:41.829 --> 00:23:43.369
the tax collector, would write a gospel like

00:23:43.369 --> 00:23:47.130
that. Yeah. In fact, that's actually where in

00:23:47.130 --> 00:23:49.210
Matthew 5, we're going to get into this and it's

00:23:49.210 --> 00:23:50.970
going to be a couple of weeks, but we're going

00:23:50.970 --> 00:23:53.049
to start. getting into the Sermon on the Mount.

00:23:53.269 --> 00:23:56.990
Right. And Matthew is one of two who, he really

00:23:56.990 --> 00:23:58.890
records the Sermon on the Mount in this, and

00:23:58.890 --> 00:24:01.470
then Luke records the Sermon on the Plains, which

00:24:01.470 --> 00:24:03.309
may or may not have been the same message. Right.

00:24:03.609 --> 00:24:05.609
I mean, Jesus did wander for three and a half

00:24:05.609 --> 00:24:08.529
years. He did a lot of talking in that time.

00:24:09.269 --> 00:24:12.329
But the Sermon on the Mount opens up with, hey,

00:24:12.430 --> 00:24:16.470
all these people who are on the outside are actually

00:24:16.470 --> 00:24:19.009
really close to heaven, the kingdom of heaven.

00:24:20.059 --> 00:24:22.140
All these people who you think aren't worth anything

00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:24.579
are actually exactly who we're here for. Wow.

00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:29.440
I was listening to a book and it's Jefferson

00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:33.539
Bethke. It was a pretty decent book. I didn't

00:24:33.539 --> 00:24:35.680
love every analogy that he had, but he says,

00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:38.339
heaven isn't what you think, I think is what

00:24:38.339 --> 00:24:40.680
the book is called. It's something is not what

00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:43.240
you think. And he has a bunch of different, he's

00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:45.079
like, you know, worship is not what you think.

00:24:45.140 --> 00:24:46.660
This isn't what you think. And so he goes through

00:24:46.660 --> 00:24:49.079
and talks about these different things. One of

00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:51.680
the points that he is talking about is he said

00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.599
when we a lot of the church used to be about

00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:57.460
going and touching the leper and healing the

00:24:57.460 --> 00:25:00.019
sick and taking care of the least of these and

00:25:00.019 --> 00:25:01.660
bringing these people and taking care of the

00:25:01.660 --> 00:25:04.299
widows and the orphans. And one of the things

00:25:04.299 --> 00:25:06.980
in the early reputation in Rome is that people

00:25:06.980 --> 00:25:09.200
like they wanted to persecute Christians, but

00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:11.500
also the community was like, well. But these

00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:13.660
people are helping doing the jobs that we don't

00:25:13.660 --> 00:25:15.859
want to do. And they're like taking care of the

00:25:15.859 --> 00:25:19.240
sick people and the dying people. And then the

00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:20.720
lepers, like they're taking care of the lepers,

00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:24.160
you know, and and they give of themselves. And

00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:25.559
anytime there's a debt, they just take care of

00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:28.779
it, you know. And so like Rome wants to exterminate

00:25:28.779 --> 00:25:30.799
them or like to knock them out. But at the same

00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.859
time around them, people are like, we like these

00:25:33.859 --> 00:25:35.200
guys. We like him. Who's going to do this work?

00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:36.920
Yeah, we like these guys like they're really

00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:39.400
good. And somewhere along the line, we went from.

00:25:40.980 --> 00:25:42.960
Jesus attracting the least of these tax collectors

00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:45.579
and fishermen and Pharisees and, and Sadducees

00:25:45.579 --> 00:25:48.259
and Essenes and women and, and, and people who

00:25:48.259 --> 00:25:51.559
are on the outcast, right. To, um, a lot of what

00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:53.599
American Christianity is. We're looking for people

00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:56.119
who are respectable, right. Uh, put together.

00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:59.599
Yeah. Can write a good tithe check. Yep. That's

00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:01.480
what the church has looked for for a long time,

00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:03.839
which by the way, it's not a, that's not a condemnation

00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:05.660
on people who make money. No. Like, that's not

00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:07.880
what I'm talking about. I'm saying that when

00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.460
a church looks for people who make money, they've

00:26:10.460 --> 00:26:12.319
lost the heart of their mission. Yeah. Because

00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:15.259
Jesus comes and he's born in a feeding trough,

00:26:15.259 --> 00:26:17.680
right? Well, he's not born in that. He's born

00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.240
out of his mom, but he's placed in a feeding

00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.680
trough. He's celebrated by shepherds. He has

00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:26.039
people outside of his own country who recognize

00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:28.660
him. as King long before anybody else. If he

00:26:28.660 --> 00:26:30.680
walked into any church in America, would he be

00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.099
recognized? Probably not. Yeah. He would not

00:26:33.099 --> 00:26:34.940
be because that you're right. He wasn't, he didn't

00:26:34.940 --> 00:26:37.940
look like our stereotypic, no typical Christian.

00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:40.480
And he is, he is the guy who's coming to bring

00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:43.000
justice, which by the way, doesn't mean people

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.059
get what they deserve. It means everybody's going

00:26:45.059 --> 00:26:48.079
to have enough. Yeah. The things that are out

00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:49.559
of whack are going to get put back into order.

00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.440
Um, I think sometimes we say justice is retribution

00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.420
and I was like, that's not what justice is. Justice

00:26:56.420 --> 00:26:59.059
is restoring people to what they should be. Um,

00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:00.920
for that book you were just talking about, it's

00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:02.380
not what you think it is. It's not what you think

00:27:02.380 --> 00:27:04.740
it is. You know, like let's take, for example,

00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:07.119
I'm going to pick on one of the, one of the blinding,

00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:10.059
blinding, uh, issues in America. Okay. Right.

00:27:10.420 --> 00:27:12.920
Uh, we were, we participated in the slave trade

00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:18.750
for a long time. Justice is not, um, getting

00:27:18.750 --> 00:27:20.490
people back because they participated in the

00:27:20.490 --> 00:27:23.390
slave trade. Justice is making sure that every

00:27:23.390 --> 00:27:26.269
person who was discredited from being made in

00:27:26.269 --> 00:27:28.769
the image of God is now elevated to that position

00:27:28.769 --> 00:27:33.529
and that the people who are persecuting are held

00:27:33.529 --> 00:27:37.009
accountable. Yes. But also that healing takes

00:27:37.009 --> 00:27:40.349
place, right? That's justice. Justice is making

00:27:40.349 --> 00:27:42.670
sure that we all have a way moving forward. Right.

00:27:42.730 --> 00:27:45.069
And that the people who were said, you are less

00:27:45.069 --> 00:27:49.589
than because you are X, Y, Z. No, you are exactly

00:27:49.589 --> 00:27:52.410
who God made you to be. You're made in the image

00:27:52.410 --> 00:27:54.529
of God. I'm made in the image of God. Together,

00:27:54.690 --> 00:27:57.210
we need to reflect the image of God. Right. Right.

00:27:57.789 --> 00:28:03.600
And to both Christianity's detriment and... there

00:28:03.600 --> 00:28:05.579
were people who used the Bible to support slavery,

00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:07.740
but there was also a lot of people who worked

00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:09.660
towards abolition, recognizing that they needed

00:28:09.660 --> 00:28:11.420
to free people made in the image of God. Correct.

00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:15.099
And so you can use the same text to do multiple

00:28:15.099 --> 00:28:17.400
things. And yet the heart of God can be completely

00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:20.490
missed. Yes. In the middle of it. Hopefully,

00:28:20.490 --> 00:28:22.269
that's what people are picking up from this podcast

00:28:22.269 --> 00:28:24.450
is that you got to have real conversations about

00:28:24.450 --> 00:28:26.549
these things. You really do. It's stuff that

00:28:26.549 --> 00:28:28.849
some people are hesitant to talk about because

00:28:28.849 --> 00:28:31.490
it's controversial, but that's not how God looked

00:28:31.490 --> 00:28:36.009
at it. And I think God's... His perspective on

00:28:36.009 --> 00:28:39.130
it is a lot simpler than we make it. Justice

00:28:39.130 --> 00:28:44.990
is about forgiveness. It's about not retribution,

00:28:45.009 --> 00:28:49.109
but reconciliation. Yeah, I think God's justice

00:28:49.109 --> 00:28:52.289
is about redemptive justice. Yes. Not retributive.

00:28:52.410 --> 00:28:56.490
Yes. Right. And and it's it's incredibly problematic,

00:28:56.809 --> 00:28:59.890
you know, and it's really difficult for me. You're

00:28:59.890 --> 00:29:01.410
a little bit older than me, so you may have a

00:29:01.410 --> 00:29:03.569
little bit different perspective. But it's really

00:29:03.569 --> 00:29:05.849
weird because I'm 38. And so like people talk

00:29:05.849 --> 00:29:08.210
and it wasn't that long ago that we had significant

00:29:08.210 --> 00:29:12.049
like we're talking in the 60s, 70s, you know,

00:29:12.049 --> 00:29:15.349
but I was born in 87. And I was actually having

00:29:15.349 --> 00:29:17.250
this conversation with my like even with like

00:29:17.250 --> 00:29:18.890
my rotary. And so this is going from race, but

00:29:18.890 --> 00:29:21.569
also going to like gender. Right. um i was talking

00:29:21.569 --> 00:29:23.990
with my rotary that i was born in 87 in 1988

00:29:23.990 --> 00:29:27.970
they they've made a supreme court case out of

00:29:27.970 --> 00:29:30.809
allowing women into rotary international well

00:29:30.809 --> 00:29:34.890
and uh and so like uh it was a huge day it's

00:29:34.890 --> 00:29:37.089
like some of the people that go now um and they're

00:29:37.089 --> 00:29:39.049
in their 60s 70s and it was a huge thing for

00:29:39.049 --> 00:29:43.369
them i was born after like before like right

00:29:43.369 --> 00:29:44.750
around that time that happened so i've never

00:29:44.750 --> 00:29:49.519
known anything else right And I think it's both

00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:51.779
a blessing, but it's also a curse not to know

00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:54.940
history. History is so valuable. You know, because

00:29:54.940 --> 00:30:00.779
it doesn't even compute in my brain to treat

00:30:00.779 --> 00:30:02.279
somebody differently because of the color of

00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.920
their skin. Right. Or the gender of their person.

00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:06.980
I was fortunate not to be raised that way at

00:30:06.980 --> 00:30:11.910
all, but I was. And so in the early 60s, I was

00:30:11.910 --> 00:30:14.410
a young child. But I remember seeing all of that

00:30:14.410 --> 00:30:20.490
in the protests and the fight for equality that

00:30:20.490 --> 00:30:22.569
went on. And I remember that very vividly. And

00:30:22.569 --> 00:30:25.150
it still breaks my heart to this day. Like I

00:30:25.150 --> 00:30:27.329
say, fortunately, I was raised in a wonderful

00:30:27.329 --> 00:30:31.250
family that has never felt that way. But it's

00:30:31.250 --> 00:30:35.650
a tough one. But it's so meaningful to feel that

00:30:35.650 --> 00:30:37.890
and know that and know that everyone is made

00:30:37.890 --> 00:30:40.849
in the image of God. But it's still, I think

00:30:40.849 --> 00:30:42.490
all of this talking about people and race and

00:30:42.490 --> 00:30:47.329
all it brings us back to the first people that

00:30:47.329 --> 00:30:49.569
really recognized and worshiped Jesus were not

00:30:49.569 --> 00:30:52.190
Jews. Were not Jews. They weren't Jews. And that's,

00:30:52.190 --> 00:30:54.230
I think that's very significant. Well, and not

00:30:54.230 --> 00:30:56.650
only not Jews, they're from Persia or Babylon.

00:30:56.890 --> 00:30:58.950
Right. Likely from Persia or Babylon, which is

00:30:58.950 --> 00:31:00.720
a place that was a captive place for them. Yeah.

00:31:01.019 --> 00:31:02.900
So it's almost like it would almost be like the

00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:07.059
Romans recognize recognizing Jesus as as the

00:31:07.059 --> 00:31:09.160
king of the Jews before they did. Right. Right.

00:31:09.539 --> 00:31:11.640
But there is this there's this whole thing about

00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:14.500
the way that God works is that he is all throughout

00:31:14.500 --> 00:31:16.680
the Gospels. We're seeing that he is always been

00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:18.640
about all nations. Right. It's all throughout

00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:20.000
the Old Testament. He's always been about all

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:22.539
nations. And so you get these people who are

00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:25.420
always recognizing the work of God. There's a

00:31:25.420 --> 00:31:26.960
story in the Old Testament of God by the name

00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.759
of Naaman. Right. Who is he suffers from a skin.

00:31:29.900 --> 00:31:33.279
disease like leprosy and he has a jewish slave

00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.000
who tells him about a guy by the name of elisha

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:39.339
and so he she says well you should go see him

00:31:39.339 --> 00:31:42.420
so he goes to see elisha and uh elisha doesn't

00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:44.240
even come to the door he sends his his guy that

00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.500
works for him right to the door and he says elisha

00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:48.119
says you need to go bathe in the jordan river

00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:51.420
seven times now people don't recognize this because

00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:53.180
they just they don't understand but compared

00:31:53.180 --> 00:31:54.779
compared to a lot of rivers the jordan river

00:31:54.779 --> 00:31:58.319
is kind of gross right yeah um These are muddy

00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:00.019
waters. Yeah, they're muddy waters. It's just

00:32:00.019 --> 00:32:01.420
gross. And he's like, well, why would I go and

00:32:01.420 --> 00:32:03.160
do that? I have much cleaner. Like, if I'm just

00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:04.559
going to bathe, this guy can't even be bothered

00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:06.380
to see me. Because Naaman, he's a big deal, right?

00:32:07.700 --> 00:32:10.259
And the guy that's with him says, hey, listen,

00:32:10.460 --> 00:32:12.539
you came all this way. Like, maybe you should

00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:15.539
just go ahead and do what he says. And so he

00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:16.940
goes to bathe seven times, and his skin is clean.

00:32:17.340 --> 00:32:20.319
And then he comes back to talk to Elisha and,

00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:22.700
uh, and he praises God, but he asked him for

00:32:22.700 --> 00:32:25.400
a really weird thing. He says, can I, he's like,

00:32:25.460 --> 00:32:28.059
I know truly that your God is the, is the only

00:32:28.059 --> 00:32:30.460
God. Like I recognize what happened here. Your

00:32:30.460 --> 00:32:32.859
God is the only God. Um, but when I serve my

00:32:32.859 --> 00:32:35.140
master, who's the King, where he comes from,

00:32:35.180 --> 00:32:38.700
and he needs me to go into the temple. Um, he

00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:40.599
needs me to lean on another. He has to like,

00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:42.359
hold on, hold on to me as I, as he goes down

00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:45.579
and nail and stuff. And he says, uh, can I take

00:32:45.579 --> 00:32:49.670
some dirt? So that, uh, I, I may worship your

00:32:49.670 --> 00:32:53.769
God there. Right. Can I, I have some dirt. Then

00:32:53.769 --> 00:32:56.809
he says also, will God, uh, will, will God be

00:32:56.809 --> 00:32:58.849
patient with me if I, if I kneel when I'm there

00:32:58.849 --> 00:33:00.730
with my master, is he serving a God that I know

00:33:00.730 --> 00:33:03.650
is not the true God? He says, but also can I,

00:33:03.670 --> 00:33:05.769
and so first Elijah says, yes, that's fine. Right.

00:33:05.930 --> 00:33:08.250
Like you have to go and serve. But then he says,

00:33:08.309 --> 00:33:12.329
take all the dirt you want. Okay. Now in Naaman's

00:33:12.329 --> 00:33:17.580
mind, Jesus or God is Yahweh is, um, geographically.

00:33:17.580 --> 00:33:18.960
Geographically. He needs dirt because he feels.

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:20.599
He needs the dirt. He's like, he's the God of

00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:22.640
this land. So if I take this dirt, then I can

00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:24.619
worship him if I have it there. Right. Right.

00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.720
And, uh, now here's, here's the, here's the strange

00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:28.920
thing. Cause we've talked about how sometimes

00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:31.690
we just disagree about things. That's okay. You

00:33:31.690 --> 00:33:33.730
know what Elisha doesn't say is, well, Naaman,

00:33:33.769 --> 00:33:35.890
let me explain to you the theological ramifications

00:33:35.890 --> 00:33:41.009
of an all -omnipotent God. Let me explain to

00:33:41.009 --> 00:33:43.970
you how your ideas of geographical significance

00:33:43.970 --> 00:33:48.269
for God is not the case. He says, it's going

00:33:48.269 --> 00:33:50.329
to help you engage with God? Okay. Take all the

00:33:50.329 --> 00:33:51.609
dirt you want. Take all the dirt you want. Yeah.

00:33:52.269 --> 00:33:55.509
And there are theologians and there are Christians

00:33:55.509 --> 00:33:57.269
today who would be wildly uncomfortable with

00:33:57.269 --> 00:34:03.960
that. to help Naaman continue his relationship

00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:06.460
with God and to develop into who he was going

00:34:06.460 --> 00:34:09.739
to be. In a way that he understood would be meaningful

00:34:09.739 --> 00:34:11.139
to him. In a way that he understood would be

00:34:11.139 --> 00:34:13.559
meaningful to him. And I don't have any like

00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:15.659
follow up on like what to name and do, any of

00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:18.099
those types of things. But what happens a lot

00:34:18.099 --> 00:34:20.199
of times in the Old Testament and here is that

00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:21.840
people recognize something that God is doing.

00:34:21.940 --> 00:34:24.800
Right. And they're not Jewish people. But God

00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:26.920
is working through them to do something significant.

00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:28.980
Because right after they have this thing where

00:34:28.980 --> 00:34:30.659
they go and they find the king of the Jews and

00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:32.320
they celebrate him. And they're like, hey, that

00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:34.420
star, we found him. This is awesome. And they

00:34:34.420 --> 00:34:38.889
worship him. Yeah. Right. Then they go and take

00:34:38.889 --> 00:34:41.230
a nap. And they get a dream. And they get a dream.

00:34:41.369 --> 00:34:44.230
Yeah. And so God is talking to them. He is. You

00:34:44.230 --> 00:34:45.849
know, the angel of the Lord comes and has a message

00:34:45.849 --> 00:34:48.949
with him. He says, Herod is going to mess you

00:34:48.949 --> 00:34:50.730
up if you go back to him. You need to go a different

00:34:50.730 --> 00:34:53.530
way. Yep. This is what's going to happen. And

00:34:53.530 --> 00:34:56.329
so God brings divine protection for these magi.

00:34:57.889 --> 00:35:01.190
Like, God is doing a lot of things that we're

00:35:01.190 --> 00:35:03.690
not expecting. Right. And he's working with a

00:35:03.690 --> 00:35:06.570
lot of people we're not expecting. And we don't

00:35:06.570 --> 00:35:08.550
get the story, but I would love to, if somebody

00:35:08.550 --> 00:35:10.289
is like a history nerd and you know something,

00:35:10.489 --> 00:35:12.989
I'd love to see like these magi who go back.

00:35:14.190 --> 00:35:16.659
What does that do? What does that do to that

00:35:16.659 --> 00:35:18.579
area they come from? Is there anything in history

00:35:18.579 --> 00:35:21.539
that is recorded? That's a good point. Was there

00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:24.119
any change? They went and found the king of the

00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:25.780
Jews, and then they went back. What story did

00:35:25.780 --> 00:35:28.079
they bring? What change did it make in their

00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:31.340
own worship and their own lives? There's so many

00:35:31.340 --> 00:35:33.920
questions that I have. I was talking about this

00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:36.860
a couple Sundays ago, maybe last Sunday, when

00:35:36.860 --> 00:35:39.519
I was preaching with Gavin and Matthew Nunley,

00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:44.219
who I'm going to have on the podcast soon. is

00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:46.619
that often God is doing things in the scriptures

00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:49.500
that like we don't ever get to read about. Right.

00:35:51.460 --> 00:35:55.179
There's 400 silent years between Malachi and

00:35:55.179 --> 00:35:58.039
the book of Matthew. Are we under the impression

00:35:58.039 --> 00:35:59.739
that God didn't do anything during that time?

00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:02.139
Did nothing happen during that time? Or are we

00:36:02.139 --> 00:36:03.940
also under the impression that like these 18

00:36:03.940 --> 00:36:06.340
years that God, or that Jesus was growing up

00:36:06.340 --> 00:36:09.199
between 12 and 30, that nothing was happening

00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:11.219
during this time? I can't imagine that's the

00:36:11.219 --> 00:36:13.579
case. I mean, I don't go a day where God doesn't

00:36:13.579 --> 00:36:16.980
do something in my life, like specifically. And

00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:18.780
that's not a New Testament thing. That's always

00:36:18.780 --> 00:36:21.280
who he's been. Yet not everything is written

00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:26.280
about. I think that when we recognize that God

00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:28.340
is always at work around us. So this is coming

00:36:28.340 --> 00:36:30.139
back. We've talked a few years ago. We talked

00:36:30.139 --> 00:36:32.860
about a guy by the name of Henry Blackaby. a

00:36:32.860 --> 00:36:35.579
series called experiencing God. So it's one of

00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:37.039
the first things about knowing and doing the

00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:39.380
will of God is recognizing that God is always

00:36:39.380 --> 00:36:44.630
at work around you. I will say that. We miss

00:36:44.630 --> 00:36:48.929
God so often. Every day, God is at work in our

00:36:48.929 --> 00:36:52.429
lives and responding in so many ways that we

00:36:52.429 --> 00:36:55.690
just miss. And I've really tried to focus more

00:36:55.690 --> 00:36:58.789
on that. And you try to examine your days and

00:36:58.789 --> 00:37:01.909
see what did God do today? Where was God? And

00:37:01.909 --> 00:37:03.449
there's times you have to look back at the end

00:37:03.449 --> 00:37:05.769
of the day and go, oh, I missed it there. Or

00:37:05.769 --> 00:37:08.730
that was an inkling that I had from the Holy

00:37:08.730 --> 00:37:10.719
Spirit that I should have done that. or spoke

00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:12.980
to that person or, or there are times when you

00:37:12.980 --> 00:37:14.679
get more in tune with that, you respond. And

00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:17.460
it's like, um, you just feel that little pull

00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:19.760
and it's like, I need to go talk to that person.

00:37:20.300 --> 00:37:22.619
And it's, it's this crazy thing. And the reason

00:37:22.619 --> 00:37:24.159
I'm bringing it up is because when we read these

00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:26.039
passages, I, you a hundred percent need to see

00:37:26.039 --> 00:37:28.000
the meta narrative about Jesus, about the old

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:29.980
Testament connections. But I also want to be

00:37:29.980 --> 00:37:32.000
the kind of people who are curious. Yeah. And

00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:35.380
we say, what did they do after this? Like, what

00:37:35.380 --> 00:37:37.239
does it mean when you, when you encounter, like

00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:39.969
what happens when you encounter? the transformative

00:37:39.969 --> 00:37:44.010
God. Yeah. You know? And then, uh, like what

00:37:44.010 --> 00:37:46.329
happens with them afterwards? Right. Like how

00:37:46.329 --> 00:37:48.369
does that change where around them? Like what

00:37:48.369 --> 00:37:51.309
happens in their space? And, uh, and sometimes

00:37:51.309 --> 00:37:54.329
we don't have the answers. but I just, I just,

00:37:54.409 --> 00:37:56.849
I can't think that that's not important for us

00:37:56.849 --> 00:37:58.929
to think about and to dwell on and being like

00:37:58.929 --> 00:38:01.070
how the, the little things that we do in our

00:38:01.070 --> 00:38:03.010
life, these little ways that we love people,

00:38:03.090 --> 00:38:04.449
these little ways that we provide for people,

00:38:04.489 --> 00:38:06.409
these little places that we bring light to people.

00:38:06.769 --> 00:38:08.670
Like what are the profound like ramifications

00:38:08.670 --> 00:38:12.289
of that over time? Yeah. I just, that was it.

00:38:12.369 --> 00:38:14.789
Nope. I get it. That's a, that's good. What,

00:38:14.849 --> 00:38:17.550
what are the ramifications of that? So they get

00:38:17.550 --> 00:38:19.789
the dream. God likes to talk in dreams. He's

00:38:19.789 --> 00:38:21.989
already talked to Joseph in a dream. He appeared

00:38:21.989 --> 00:38:26.670
to Mary. He and he's now told the Magi, hey,

00:38:26.789 --> 00:38:30.289
go the other way. I mean, I get this as we as

00:38:30.289 --> 00:38:34.409
we go through this. Joseph is this guy, his obedience

00:38:34.409 --> 00:38:38.010
and his faith in God to me is just outstanding.

00:38:38.409 --> 00:38:40.630
I mean, I think there should be more looked into

00:38:40.630 --> 00:38:44.010
or talked about that because his. got a dream.

00:38:44.110 --> 00:38:46.369
I mean, from the time Mary got pregnant to, um,

00:38:46.510 --> 00:38:48.530
to now it's like a dream. Go to Egypt. Okay.

00:38:48.750 --> 00:38:51.690
Gone. You know? Okay. Come back. Okay. Just checked

00:38:51.690 --> 00:38:53.570
out. He's like, well, and we, and we talked about

00:38:53.570 --> 00:38:55.409
this a couple episodes, Spencer and I is that,

00:38:55.489 --> 00:38:58.510
um, because nobody recognized Jesus as Messiah

00:38:58.510 --> 00:39:01.449
until after his death. That means that the entire

00:39:01.449 --> 00:39:04.170
time that, uh, Jesus was growing up the entire

00:39:04.170 --> 00:39:07.250
time that, um, Joseph was alive because he was

00:39:07.250 --> 00:39:10.849
dead at some point. Yeah. Um, he lived with the

00:39:10.849 --> 00:39:14.130
shame of a, of everybody assuming that Jesus

00:39:14.130 --> 00:39:18.170
was born to another man. Right. Right? That his

00:39:18.170 --> 00:39:21.269
wife cheated on him or that he violated the covenant

00:39:21.269 --> 00:39:24.469
early. Correct. Right? That cloud was hanging

00:39:24.469 --> 00:39:25.389
over his head all the time. They just walked

00:39:25.389 --> 00:39:28.769
with that shame their entire life willingly because

00:39:28.769 --> 00:39:31.690
the word of the Lord spoke to them. Yep. And

00:39:31.690 --> 00:39:34.909
I often wonder how many times Christians, because

00:39:34.909 --> 00:39:36.590
God is calling them to do something, have to

00:39:36.590 --> 00:39:39.780
walk with shame from the world. Because the world

00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:41.219
doesn't understand. Because the world doesn't

00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:42.780
understand like what they have to step into.

00:39:42.940 --> 00:39:45.760
Yeah. Right. Now, of course, there's always the

00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:47.380
flip side of that is like sometimes people bring

00:39:47.380 --> 00:39:49.019
things on themselves because they don't represent

00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:52.639
Jesus well. Yeah. I have a phrase that I've said

00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:54.079
a lot and I'll probably put on a T -shirt at

00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:56.699
some point. If the world doesn't like you because

00:39:56.699 --> 00:40:00.719
of Jesus, that's life. Yeah. If they don't like

00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:02.599
you or they don't like Jesus because of you,

00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:08.019
that's sin. Yeah. Right. And. Well, we'll never

00:40:08.019 --> 00:40:09.780
get through if I don't hurry up here. So we'll

00:40:09.780 --> 00:40:13.099
get back into here. So they go down to Egypt,

00:40:13.179 --> 00:40:14.679
and they're down in Egypt, and then Herod dies,

00:40:14.860 --> 00:40:17.519
and we kind of told the story about that. There's

00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:19.159
conversation about he might have had gangrene

00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:22.260
or kidney disease. Kidney disease seems more

00:40:22.260 --> 00:40:24.659
likely to me. If you're a guy drinking a ton,

00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:27.880
probably drinking a ton and not doing a whole

00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:31.340
lot. Like you're just sitting on wealth. So his

00:40:31.340 --> 00:40:33.599
kingdom is then divided among his sons. One guy

00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:36.260
by the name of Archelaus, he rules Judea, Samaria,

00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:40.519
and the Idumea. Sorry, I'm reading this. My eyes

00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:43.260
crossed for a second. Archelaus is known for

00:40:43.260 --> 00:40:46.980
his cruelty. Taken after his old man. Yep. And

00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:49.780
he is actually later deposed by Rome. There is

00:40:49.780 --> 00:40:51.860
Herod Antipas, who's going to be the one that

00:40:51.860 --> 00:40:54.860
Jesus interacts with the most. This is the one

00:40:54.860 --> 00:40:57.880
who ruled Galilee and the Perea. And this is

00:40:57.880 --> 00:40:59.260
going to be the one that John the Baptist comes

00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:02.159
up against also. And then there's going to be

00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:05.360
Philip, who ruled the northeastern territories.

00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:08.920
That's like Floria and Trichonitis. Wow, those

00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:11.960
are different. Yeah, I always tease Nick about

00:41:11.960 --> 00:41:13.920
not reading these names, Pastor Nick, about not

00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.500
reading the names on Sunday morning, and I get

00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:20.840
it. It's difficult. So then after Herod dies,

00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:22.400
the angel says, okay, you can come back now.

00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:26.159
This king has died, and his kid is in his place.

00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:28.559
By the way, think Egypt. When does Moses come

00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:31.429
back? Pharaoh's died. Pharaoh's died. Pharaoh's

00:41:31.429 --> 00:41:34.730
died, and he comes back after that. So, fearing

00:41:34.730 --> 00:41:36.849
Archelaus in Judea, Joseph settles in a place

00:41:36.849 --> 00:41:38.929
called Nazareth. It's a small, obscure village

00:41:38.929 --> 00:41:41.369
in Galilee. Nazareth is incredibly insignificant

00:41:41.369 --> 00:41:44.190
in Jewish history, which, by the way, Nathaniel

00:41:44.190 --> 00:41:46.670
and John is going to say, Nazareth, does anything

00:41:46.670 --> 00:41:49.329
good come out of there? Exactly. Right? They're

00:41:49.329 --> 00:41:52.570
like, I don't know. Yeah, I'm trying to think

00:41:52.570 --> 00:41:55.980
of a town that is known for, like... Nothing,

00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:58.280
but I can't think of anything. Yeah, I wouldn't.

00:41:58.280 --> 00:42:00.119
I would just have to pick on people. I know,

00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:00.760
and I don't want to pick on people. And then

00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:02.519
there's probably listeners who live there, and

00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:03.739
I'd be like, this city, and they're like, hey,

00:42:04.059 --> 00:42:11.599
I live there. Yeah, we'll pick on L .A. No, just

00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:16.579
kidding. But he actually connects his, Matthew's

00:42:16.579 --> 00:42:18.800
going to connect Jesus' residence to prophecy,

00:42:19.099 --> 00:42:22.039
stating that he would be called a Nazarene, right?

00:42:23.550 --> 00:42:26.230
This may refer to the Hebrew word, which is Netzer,

00:42:26.329 --> 00:42:28.989
also known as branch, alluding to the prophecies

00:42:28.989 --> 00:42:30.989
of the Messiah as a branch from David's line.

00:42:31.349 --> 00:42:34.309
Or it could be a symbolic representation of humility

00:42:34.309 --> 00:42:36.989
as Nazareth was looked really far down upon.

00:42:37.650 --> 00:42:39.309
Either one of those I'd be totally fine with.

00:42:41.609 --> 00:42:44.130
Especially when you start to compare Jesus with

00:42:44.130 --> 00:42:46.250
Caesar Augustus, which is happening around the

00:42:46.250 --> 00:42:48.289
same time. Jesus is bringing a kingdom of peace.

00:42:48.670 --> 00:42:50.610
Caesar promised a kingdom of peace, but they're

00:42:50.610 --> 00:42:53.429
very different kingdoms. Very much so. Caesar

00:42:53.429 --> 00:42:56.389
is like, I was born with a golden spoon in my

00:42:56.389 --> 00:42:58.869
hand. It was like this grand thing, and Jesus

00:42:58.869 --> 00:43:00.510
is like, well, I was born and placed in a trough.

00:43:00.670 --> 00:43:05.690
Yeah. Grew up in Nazareth. Yep. Very different.

00:43:05.769 --> 00:43:07.489
Very different people. Very different. Right?

00:43:07.710 --> 00:43:12.059
It's not what you think it is. Let's do a couple

00:43:12.059 --> 00:43:17.099
of broad, broad, very broad conclusions from

00:43:17.099 --> 00:43:19.639
this story. One is the story is going to show

00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:23.079
Jesus as a stepping into a story that's been

00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:25.880
told for a long time. So the way we call that

00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:28.980
is we call it a fulfillment of prophecy. I call

00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:30.659
it a little bit different. I said Jesus is stepping

00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:33.000
into a story that's been told long before he

00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:36.190
got there. He's stepping into a context. And

00:43:36.190 --> 00:43:38.250
Matthew's like, hey, just so you know, this is

00:43:38.250 --> 00:43:40.150
why Jesus is doing this. This has been the story

00:43:40.150 --> 00:43:41.929
all along, and he's stepping right into the middle

00:43:41.929 --> 00:43:43.909
of this. And there's the context that shows it.

00:43:44.329 --> 00:43:47.650
Born in Bethlehem, Micah 5 .2, call out of Egypt,

00:43:47.809 --> 00:43:50.550
Hosea 11 .1, link to sorrow and lamentation,

00:43:50.590 --> 00:43:53.829
Jeremiah 31 .15, call to Nazarene, Hosea 11 .1,

00:43:53.829 --> 00:43:58.369
or other places. Um, Jesus is going to be, um,

00:43:58.550 --> 00:44:01.469
shown as this new Moses, right? So both escaping

00:44:01.469 --> 00:44:03.449
the massacre of male infants, both called out

00:44:03.449 --> 00:44:05.309
of Egypt, both the deliverers of God's people,

00:44:05.409 --> 00:44:09.190
both returned back to their homeland after, uh,

00:44:09.329 --> 00:44:11.630
back to their people after the King died. Right.

00:44:12.449 --> 00:44:16.889
Um, the one we've, we've hit pretty hard is Gentiles

00:44:16.889 --> 00:44:19.889
recognize Jesus. This is also going to continue

00:44:19.889 --> 00:44:23.610
to be a theme. Right. Um, there, and in fact,

00:44:24.619 --> 00:44:29.840
not technically a foreigner, but one of the first

00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:32.099
people who recognizes Jesus fully as Messiah

00:44:32.099 --> 00:44:34.139
and he reveals himself as Messiah is the woman

00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:37.940
at the well. Right. Who is a Samaritan. The people

00:44:37.940 --> 00:44:40.920
that Jews really don't like. Nope. Like forget

00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:42.960
the Romans who are oppressing and enslaving them.

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:47.599
They really don't like Samaritans. Yep. And it's

00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.260
going to be continuing to a theme in both Matthew

00:44:50.260 --> 00:44:52.280
and Luke. Matthew is going to be talking about

00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:53.420
the people on the outside, but Luke is going

00:44:53.420 --> 00:44:55.659
to be talking about all humanity. These Gentiles,

00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:59.079
there's going to be a centurion, right? There's

00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:02.420
going to be Jairus, right? All these different

00:45:02.420 --> 00:45:04.920
people throughout the story, even when Luke continues

00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:06.800
into the book of Acts, he's going to tell a story

00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:08.699
about a guy named Cornelius who the spirit falls

00:45:08.699 --> 00:45:11.380
on. We're going to hear about an Ethiopian eunuch

00:45:11.380 --> 00:45:16.150
who goes and shares the gospel, right? And and

00:45:16.150 --> 00:45:21.769
it's one of these things where the there is neither

00:45:21.769 --> 00:45:23.789
Jew nor Gentile. That doesn't mean that they

00:45:23.789 --> 00:45:25.530
stopped existing. It just means they stopped

00:45:25.530 --> 00:45:29.510
competing. I think that there's so much of that

00:45:29.510 --> 00:45:31.849
written into the scriptures, a New Testament.

00:45:31.909 --> 00:45:34.329
And Jesus brought that in to to really reveal

00:45:34.329 --> 00:45:40.030
and show that that this is for every person on

00:45:40.030 --> 00:45:43.619
Earth. Yeah. You know what he came for to save

00:45:43.619 --> 00:45:47.980
everyone. Yeah. And then the last thing is everything

00:45:47.980 --> 00:45:50.400
about the kingdom of God and the way that Jesus

00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:52.900
brings about things is completely different from

00:45:52.900 --> 00:45:55.519
the way the powers of the world do it. Yes. It's

00:45:55.519 --> 00:45:57.480
going to continue to be the case. It's going

00:45:57.480 --> 00:45:59.440
to be different than the way the Pharisees are

00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:00.559
going to be frustrated because they're like,

00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:02.579
well, you have to do this. And he's like, that's

00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:05.440
not what the text is about. And the Romans or

00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:07.199
the Zealots are going to be like, well, you must

00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.099
rise up and defeat them. And he's like, leave

00:46:09.099 --> 00:46:12.420
your knives at home. Right. They're going to

00:46:12.420 --> 00:46:14.940
be like, well, we should not pay taxes to a tyrannical

00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:17.380
government. Okay. Whose inscription is on the

00:46:17.380 --> 00:46:19.500
coin? Yeah. You go ahead and give Caesar what

00:46:19.500 --> 00:46:20.860
Caesar's, but don't you ever give them what's

00:46:20.860 --> 00:46:23.059
God's. Yeah. Right. Like this is going to be

00:46:23.059 --> 00:46:24.679
a reoccurring thing where he's challenging the

00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:26.480
systems. In fact, I had a fun conversation with

00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:29.460
a friend of mine and we differ politically. And

00:46:29.460 --> 00:46:31.000
I said, hey, you know, one of the things my favorite

00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:34.719
things about Jesus is. And I said, if you are

00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:38.380
just the most liberal person ever, he has challenges

00:46:38.380 --> 00:46:43.059
for you. And they said, yeah. And I said, also,

00:46:43.139 --> 00:46:46.550
if you are a super conservative person. He's

00:46:46.550 --> 00:46:49.869
got some challenges for you. Yes. And there is

00:46:49.869 --> 00:46:52.030
no political position that you can have that

00:46:52.030 --> 00:46:54.869
completely aligns with Jesus. Correct. And instead,

00:46:54.989 --> 00:46:58.170
he asks you to place yourself underneath his

00:46:58.170 --> 00:47:00.349
rule and reign and follow him as king. Yeah.

00:47:00.849 --> 00:47:03.269
And that doesn't follow a political system. It

00:47:03.269 --> 00:47:05.349
doesn't follow a world system. It doesn't follow

00:47:05.349 --> 00:47:07.349
a power system except the power of the kingdom

00:47:07.349 --> 00:47:09.409
of God and the presence of the Holy Spirit within

00:47:09.409 --> 00:47:13.420
you. Love people. Yep. You don't have to like

00:47:13.420 --> 00:47:16.440
them, but love them and enemies, friends alike.

00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:19.599
Yeah. That's the message you brought. Yeah. It's

00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:22.139
really good. It's a good message. Anything else

00:47:22.139 --> 00:47:25.239
you can think of? Just that I really resonate

00:47:25.239 --> 00:47:29.579
as we talk about the life of Jesus, that he really

00:47:29.579 --> 00:47:32.659
didn't show up. like anybody expected him to

00:47:32.659 --> 00:47:34.780
show up. And that's why it was such a challenge

00:47:34.780 --> 00:47:38.300
for the religious leaders of the time. And, and

00:47:38.300 --> 00:47:40.179
one of the biggest hindrances of getting his

00:47:40.179 --> 00:47:43.199
message out there is, is religious itself. And

00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:45.159
I'm not picking on any churches or denominations,

00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:48.699
but the concept of religion and the rules that

00:47:48.699 --> 00:47:52.699
we all put in place because God's mercy is too

00:47:52.699 --> 00:47:56.699
simple. So we have to have rules. And it's not

00:47:56.699 --> 00:48:00.190
that way. Yeah. Yeah. Is it's not that there

00:48:00.190 --> 00:48:02.010
aren't rules there It's not that there aren't

00:48:02.010 --> 00:48:04.289
like ways you're called into living when you're

00:48:04.289 --> 00:48:06.329
part of the kingdom like absolutely there are

00:48:06.329 --> 00:48:08.389
there There's rules to being part of the household.

00:48:08.530 --> 00:48:10.489
Mm -hmm, but the rules are meant to guide you

00:48:10.489 --> 00:48:12.409
into life. They're not meant to strangle you

00:48:12.409 --> 00:48:16.869
right and I'm gonna I'm gonna finish up here.

00:48:16.909 --> 00:48:19.030
Can I can you hand me that right there? so want

00:48:19.030 --> 00:48:20.789
to let people know because when this post this

00:48:20.789 --> 00:48:23.769
is gonna be the This will post the day after

00:48:23.769 --> 00:48:25.650
this is actually released. So this is my first

00:48:25.650 --> 00:48:29.119
book Um, beautiful chaos, infinite love. And,

00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:30.900
uh, ironically, something we're talking about

00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:36.159
here is, um, people expect God to be one way

00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:38.920
and he's not. And so one of, one of the things

00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.019
that I did in this book is I wrote about my experience

00:48:41.019 --> 00:48:43.880
with my children and about like, what does it

00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:45.659
mean for like me to be speaking over them and

00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:47.440
them to hear the sound of my voice? And then

00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:48.760
I talked about like, what does it mean for God

00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:50.900
to be speaking over us for so many years for

00:48:50.900 --> 00:48:54.400
us to finally hear his voice? Right. Um, When

00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:57.440
my kids first learned how to walk, they stumbled

00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:00.300
constantly. Was I up there as a man in the cloud,

00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:02.400
upset and yelling at them every time they stumbled?

00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:04.940
Or did I love them and every failure was leading

00:49:04.940 --> 00:49:07.360
to success? You celebrated every step. Was it

00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:10.679
about the journey? And maybe perhaps we misunderstand

00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:13.199
what God is actually asking, like how he actually

00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:16.659
wants to interact with us. We think that we're

00:49:16.659 --> 00:49:18.400
supposed to be perfect. And he says, no, I'm

00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:20.460
going to make you perfect in our relationship.

00:49:21.210 --> 00:49:23.610
I'm going to help you walk along and grow you

00:49:23.610 --> 00:49:25.550
into something that you're supposed to be. When

00:49:25.550 --> 00:49:27.889
you assume, don't assume that God is mad at you.

00:49:28.050 --> 00:49:30.489
Right. When you assume that actually God loves

00:49:30.489 --> 00:49:33.070
you, it's going to change the way that when he

00:49:33.070 --> 00:49:34.730
interacts with you and he corrects you and he

00:49:34.730 --> 00:49:38.889
guides you, that suddenly it's no longer fear.

00:49:39.329 --> 00:49:42.630
It's love. It's love. And so beautiful chaos,

00:49:42.670 --> 00:49:44.389
because if you've ever had kids, you get that.

00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:49.659
Absolutely true. And, you know, actually, but

00:49:49.659 --> 00:49:53.119
for one thing here that I do want to close on

00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:57.119
here is we talk a lot about in this podcast about...

00:49:58.129 --> 00:50:00.349
God loves you and that the father loves you.

00:50:00.369 --> 00:50:02.690
He loves you like a, like a father. Like we,

00:50:02.750 --> 00:50:04.789
we love our children, but also God loves us infinitely

00:50:04.789 --> 00:50:08.070
more. Like if we love this way, but in a lot

00:50:08.070 --> 00:50:09.769
of, there are people who are listening who have

00:50:09.769 --> 00:50:12.090
had parents who didn't love them. Well, uh, who

00:50:12.090 --> 00:50:15.610
grew up in harsh, difficult homes. And, uh, that

00:50:15.610 --> 00:50:18.510
is not the household of the father. No. And,

00:50:18.510 --> 00:50:21.369
uh, and so I was wondering, uh, Mr. Less crunk,

00:50:21.449 --> 00:50:24.590
if you would not just pray for those people as

00:50:24.590 --> 00:50:28.230
we close out our podcast. Absolutely. Yeah. Father,

00:50:28.250 --> 00:50:30.630
we pray for the people listening to this podcast

00:50:30.630 --> 00:50:34.610
that your love would just pour into their hearts

00:50:34.610 --> 00:50:36.949
and that they would have a clear understanding

00:50:36.949 --> 00:50:39.650
of how gracious and how awesome and how forgiving

00:50:39.650 --> 00:50:43.869
you are. And Lord, we have such... distorted

00:50:43.869 --> 00:50:46.510
views of our own heavenly fathers, our own earthly

00:50:46.510 --> 00:50:49.210
fathers versus a heavenly father. And Lord, I

00:50:49.210 --> 00:50:50.949
pray that you would just break down those walls

00:50:50.949 --> 00:50:53.949
and barriers and open hearts to receive your

00:50:53.949 --> 00:50:57.769
love in its full and to change those that have.

00:50:59.549 --> 00:51:02.690
such, um, blockage from that, that think God's

00:51:02.690 --> 00:51:05.829
an angry God and realize that, uh, that you love

00:51:05.829 --> 00:51:08.690
every one of us with such a deep love and such

00:51:08.690 --> 00:51:11.070
a compassion. Father, I pray that it would just

00:51:11.070 --> 00:51:13.750
pour out through each and every one continually

00:51:13.750 --> 00:51:16.369
and that they would just grow in that love and

00:51:16.369 --> 00:51:23.170
glow, grow in your grace. Thank you, Jesus. Amen.

00:51:24.269 --> 00:51:27.369
Amen. So I just hope that if that is you, that

00:51:27.369 --> 00:51:29.929
you receive that today, um, start listening,

00:51:30.090 --> 00:51:32.809
start trusting, start reading, join the conversation.

00:51:33.269 --> 00:51:35.889
You can get us at love and context at gmail .com.

00:51:35.949 --> 00:51:38.409
We're also on social media. Uh, the book, beautiful

00:51:38.409 --> 00:51:40.469
chaos, infinite love is available on Amazon.

00:51:40.610 --> 00:51:43.849
Um, if you do not like to read, uh, which I mean,

00:51:43.869 --> 00:51:46.090
I got people in my family, that's the way I did

00:51:46.090 --> 00:51:47.809
do an audio book too. It's available on audible

00:51:47.809 --> 00:51:51.070
Spotify, pretty much everywhere. And, uh, yeah.

00:51:51.449 --> 00:51:53.289
Otherwise, we will see you next week, and you're

00:51:53.289 --> 00:51:56.429
going to be like, man, I feel like Les was much

00:51:56.429 --> 00:52:00.630
more prepared the week before. Yeah. All right.

00:52:00.650 --> 00:52:04.650
Have a good one. All right. And that's a wrap

00:52:04.650 --> 00:52:07.349
for today's episode of Love and Context. We hope

00:52:07.349 --> 00:52:09.469
this conversation encouraged you and gave you

00:52:09.469 --> 00:52:11.869
fresh insights into how we can better love God

00:52:11.869 --> 00:52:13.969
and others through the powerful truths of the

00:52:13.969 --> 00:52:16.369
Bible. We'd love to hear from you. Send your

00:52:16.369 --> 00:52:19.369
questions, thoughts, or suggestions to loveandcontext

00:52:19.369 --> 00:52:22.130
at gmail .com. Your feedback means the world

00:52:22.130 --> 00:52:25.030
to us and helps shape future episodes. Stay connected

00:52:25.030 --> 00:52:27.369
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00:52:27.369 --> 00:52:29.630
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00:52:29.630 --> 00:52:32.190
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00:52:32.190 --> 00:52:33.989
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00:52:34.130 --> 00:52:36.090
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00:52:36.090 --> 00:52:38.309
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00:52:38.309 --> 00:52:40.449
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00:52:40.449 --> 00:52:42.869
the heart of it all. Until next time, keep seeking

00:52:42.869 --> 00:52:45.110
wisdom, embracing love, and living out your faith

00:52:45.110 --> 00:52:45.929
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