Season two of Love in Context podcast welcomes you.
Get ready for engaging unscripted conversations with your host, Ben and Spencer.
Our mission remains unchanged to explore the Bible through the powerful lens of love.
In this new season, we'll embark on a journey together, unearthing fresh insights and gaining
deeper understanding of how we can love God and live out our faith in practical ways.
So let's dive into this season of Love in Context, where love and the context of the
Bible intersect to transform our lives.
Welcome back, everyone.
You ready for this one?
It's been a whole week.
Whole week.
And definitely not 10 minutes for us.
I don't know what you're talking about.
We just like to wear, we just make sure we watch last week's episode and come back in
with the same clothes.
Well, people who are listening don't know that.
They can't tell.
They just tell that our voices are in the exact same like state that the last episode
ended.
What are you talking about, Ben?
Yeah.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Yeah.
Well, we are going to be jumping into third John.
Yeah.
Just to continue on the joke, we'll be in chapter one today.
Chapter one.
So but you kind of have to recap first, John, a little bit to understand these books.
Yeah.
So reminder what I covered in the last episode.
And by the way, if you're jumping into third John, you really need to listen to the last
episode on second John first, because there's a lot of stuff we're going to reference in
this episode because he kind of has to write this letter to address the opposite side of
what's happening.
Yeah.
So first, John, second, John, third, John, all written by John and or then attributed
to John the elder.
And the first letter he writes, he says, Hey, just want to remind you of things we already
know Jesus is light and all the people who want to walk with Jesus walk in the light
and they are purified by the light as they walk in the light through the love of Christ.
Yeah.
Also, Jesus and God are love and that if you are going to walk with Jesus, your life is
about love.
This is who you're going to represent talking about Jesus and the father as people who are
walking within the same authority, same, same mission, they are one God represented in two
distinct persons.
Right?
Obviously the Holy Spirit too, but in this person, he's talking about Jesus and, and
God the father.
And the main reason he's dealing with this is that there are these people who are coming
from the outside and they're talking about how Jesus didn't physically live on the earth
that he was a, that he was not physically president in his three and a half years of
ministry or when he was beaten or crucified or resurrected.
Right?
They are compromising the very nature of Jesus, which we talked about last week and John says,
Hey, these people who are coming and they're compromising the very nature of Jesus, who
are saying Jesus wasn't the things that the Bible says he is.
Don't encourage them.
Don't invite them into your house.
Don't build up their ministry.
That's pretty clear.
Like that's not a difficult proposition.
But we talked about how you, that is a very narrow position.
I'm sorry.
It is a very narrow focus on what he's talking about because he's talking about specifically
when, when somebody is compromising Jesus and in that same letter, he says that you're
going to walk in love and that you're going to obey the commands to show that you love,
that the commands are actually to walk in love and there's a circular thing that everything
you're doing is saturated in love.
So even when you're dealing with these people and you're not promoting their ministry, nor
are you inviting them into your home for the purposes of hearing from them and giving them
authority, you are still called to love in the midst of that.
Yeah.
So to jump into third, John, this is a letter from John the elder.
I'm writing to Gaius, my dear friend, uh, whom I love and truth, dear friend, I hope
all is well with you and that you are healthy and body and strong in spirit.
Some of the traveling teachers recently returned and made me very happy by telling me about
your faithfulness and that you're living according to the truth.
I can have no greater joy than to hear that my children are following the truth.
So to start off here, you have John taught writing to a friend, a friend that he loves
and respects who's been faithful to the ministry, who's helped the apostles, who's lived according
to the way of truth, which is love.
Right.
And the person of Jesus.
Yeah.
So, so we have a shift from John writing to a whole church potentially and in chapter
two to one person.
Right.
So that's the tonal shift we just have to note.
Yeah.
It's, it's going from a broad focus to a more narrow focus.
Like he's addressing a specific issue.
Yeah.
Then he goes on to say, dear friend, you are being faithful to God when you care for the
traveling teachers that pass through, even though they are strangers to you, they have
told the church here about your loving friendship.
Please continue providing for such teachers in the manner that pleases God for they are
traveling for the Lord and they accepted nothing from the people who are not believers.
So we ourselves should support them so that we can be their partners as they teach the
truth.
Yeah.
So rewind back to last week, there was this whole conversation about like, Hey, be careful
about welcoming these teachers in.
Yeah.
Some teachers in.
Right.
So now John is writing to guys and he's like, okay, so yes, there's bad teachers out there.
There's also good teachers.
And you're doing a great job.
I hear a fantastic report about the fact that you're welcoming them.
You're providing for them.
By the way, it's likely that guy just didn't agree with all of these people.
100% across the board.
Likely.
It's likely that's the case, but he recognized the spirit of God working in them and the
Jesus that they follow.
And he says, I'm going to help you.
I'm going to come alongside you.
I'm going to take care of you.
By the way, if you only have conversations with people who you agree 100% with on 100%
of everything, you're going to live a lonely existence.
Yeah.
So with, with that talking about people, like only agreeing with people that you agree with
100%, can we just even talk about Jesus as disciples where you got some Messines, you
got some, uh, you got some, um, uh, zealots, you got some, you got some tax collectors,
you have some women, right?
Uh, not in the 12, but in the 72, you have some women, you have, um, you have some Levi's,
right?
You have, uh, Pharisees, you probably have a Sadducee or two, right?
Definitely have Herodians.
Yep.
Right.
All these people who all have a different opinion about how the kingdom of God is going
to come to earth.
And Jesus says, yep, let's go.
I was talking to some high schoolers a few months ago about Jesus's, uh, disciples and
they're like, and I was like, well, let's just put it this way.
Like if Jesus today walked in with his disciples, you would be like, what in the world is this
group of people?
Yeah.
Like it would be, it'd be people from all walks of life, uh, all sorts of backgrounds,
uh, and it's supposed to be an image of what the church should look like.
Yeah.
I was going to say, I was like, we actually would call that place a church, right?
But they'd walk in and you'd be like, wait, they don't look the same.
They don't all act the same.
There's some voiceless people who are trying to call down fire on other people.
And then there's, then there's zealots who are known for killing tax collectors.
Oh, hey, look, there's a zealot standing next to a tax collector.
It'd be like, it's entirely possible that you have, uh, cause we read about in the book
of acts, you have, uh, these really prominent women who are connected to Herod's household
who are actually giving money to the, or sorry, in the book of Luke, uh, prominent women who
are giving money to the ministry of Jesus that he can go and spread their gospel while
there's zealots who are people who would actually assassinate Roman officials following Jesus.
Uh-huh.
Like this is a very like group that has a lot of opinions, right?
And that's just in the Galilee area and, and Jerusalem.
Now they're actually going out.
Now you have people who aren't just Jews.
You have people who are Gentiles.
There are people who worship the Greek gods, the Roman gods, all these different things
that are kind of coming in here.
I was like, so how much more difference of opinion is happening at this point?
A lot, a lot.
Um, and so guys probably didn't agree with everything.
Yep.
But he does say, man, the reports coming back from you, like people are just so impressed
with you.
They're like, I love what you're doing and that you're walking faithfully, you're loving
people well, and you're taking care of people.
Yeah.
So moving on to verse nine, he's like, I wrote to the church about this, but the offers this,
however you say that, um, uh, who I'm going to call them.
Diotrephus and also if you were, uh, pregnant right now with a child, you can either go
with guys or Diotrephus.
Yeah.
So he loves to be a leader, refuses to have anything to do with us.
When I come, I will report some of the things, uh, some of the things he is doing, uh, and
the evil accusations he's making against us.
Not only does he refuse to welcome the traveling teachers, he also tells others not to help
them and when they do help, he puts them out of the church.
Hmm.
So it, like when I read this in the context of second John, right?
Like Dio trafus or Dio trafus or whatever we want to say.
Uh, good old Dio.
Yeah.
I'm going pastor Nick here on name pronunciation.
Yeah.
Just have a backpack.
Yeah.
Not have a backache.
Uh, uh, in a way he's actually following what John was writing about in, in a John,
uh, second John, but he was taking a step too far because now there's good teachers
who are coming and then he's still treating them like those teachers who are saying Jesus
actually didn't come in physical form.
Right.
Well, and, and it, a lot of it is actually very clear in the person himself.
So, um, uh, early on it says here and you're yours said it a little bit differently.
So I'll have you read this too, but in verse nine, it says a road through the church, but
Dio trafus who loves to be first, right?
Is how the NIV says it will not welcome us.
Now yours said, uh, wants to be a leader who loves to be the leader.
Yeah.
So that is, uh, if concerning for me when I go to churches where a pastor says to listen
to them and no one else, that's a, that's a, that is a, uh, you want to talk about red
flags.
That's like a red banner, right?
Like that is, it's not a flag like that.
Let's stretch that puppy out all the way around the church.
We just painted the building red.
Yeah.
Um, because, uh, historically that's also how Colts show up, right?
Uh, especially built around like, uh, charismatic or, uh, specific figures.
And they say, only listen to us.
You're nobody else has, uh, or you don't allow these people to speak into your life.
And the other thing that this does, uh, just backtracking a little bit is this also tells
you a little bit about the nature of the apostles.
Yeah.
Like it wasn't the apostles they were building up.
And then here you have John saying, Hey, there's teachers plural who are coming into your community.
Welcome them.
They're good people.
Yeah.
Right.
Uh, and that should be a model.
That should be something we're doing as a church, right?
We should be building up people to take our place.
Right.
Like if we're, I think we had that conversation, um, uh, with Jamie, um, pastor Nick's wife,
she's going to listen to this and be so frustrated with you right now.
It's all right.
Yeah, that's all right.
Uh, but she was, we were, she's sings on our worship team and she's like, Nick, the words
are too small.
And I was like, Jamie, I think this means we need to get people in our twenties on the
worship team.
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
Uh, but I was like, but you know, we should be building people up, right?
Like we should be, we should be a place where we are, where we're not just the ones who
are hoarding all the time to teach, but we're building people up to send them out to teach.
Yeah.
Right.
Or send them out to do whatever they're called to.
Well and it's, uh, and the, and one of the issues he's like, he's not welcoming, uh,
not welcoming them like, and specifically people John is sending John who by the way
went through and actually started these churches, right?
So has the spiritual authority to stand above.
Remember last episode we were talking about the ability to actually speak correction.
Yeah.
Right.
John is actually in the position to do this because he's overseeing these churches, right?
As an apostle.
And so he, he actually has the authority to speak correction into this, not for the purpose
of embarrassing somebody, but for the purpose of forwarding the gospel and being, having
a better union with the church, right?
Better unity inside the church.
And uh, he says, um, when I come, I'm going to call attention to what he's doing because
it's not just that he's not, um, welcoming us.
He's actually spreading malicious nonsense is what the NIV says about us.
It's malicious nonsense.
Things that are not actually true by the way, go back to our kingdom of trolls episode.
There are entire channels devoted to what I'm going to call heresy hunters where they
maliciously attack people over nonsense or things that they did not say nor things that
they currently hold true.
And they go after people around them.
John has addressed that directly.
Yeah.
And the other thing John addressed in verse 11, which, which I think we really need to
take note of this, uh, is what he called, how he calls guys to respond.
Correct.
He says, dear friend, don't let this bad example influence you.
Follow what is good.
Remember that those who do good prove that they are God's children and those who do evil
prove that they do not know God.
Okay.
So one thing John is not saying, he's saying, Hey, don't go to doubt Travis and correct
him.
Right.
He's saying just don't let him influence you.
Don't let his, um, bad reports.
Don't let his, um, words impact who you're going to be.
And you rewind back to what, what John is saying is, is he, uh, when it comes to doubt
Travis, he says, yeah, when I get there, I'll deal with it.
Right.
He's like, this is my issue.
I'm the one in authority to enact discipline in this situation.
And then with guys, he's like, don't let that influence you.
Keep doing the good that you're doing.
Yeah.
Guy is, I am fully aware of what's going on.
Yes.
I'm very frustrated because you've been kicked, killing it, right?
You've been knocking it out of the park.
You're doing a great job.
The gospel is moving forward.
I do know what's going on with Dio Travis.
Yeah.
Right.
And I will deal with it.
But what you need to do is not let him influence the good that you're doing.
Yes.
Holy cow church.
Yes.
If, if there's any leaders like that are listening to this, please take note of this.
Yeah.
Like don't let one person's mistake, uh, tarnish the whole body.
Yeah.
And this is by the way, like this, I feel very comfortable saying that if you're a church
leader, this is Jesus speaking directly to you, right?
He's saying, listen, if you're killing it, keep killing it.
And don't let what the people who are spreading a bad report who are doing improper things,
I'll deal with it.
You go and be about the business of the kingdom and don't let it influence what you're doing.
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
And then he goes on in verse 12, he says, everyone speaks highly of that, uh, of Demetrius,
a different person, uh, and as does the truth himself, we ourselves can say the same for
him and we know, and you know, we speak the truth.
Right.
So I think the implication in that text and, and, uh, this, this is just Ben's opinion
is that diatrophis is probably saying something about Determius.
Determius, Demetrius, Demetrius.
I'm reading it through my microphone so that, uh, we might need to get somebody who's in
their twenties to start reading things on this podcast.
If you are in your twenties and can read small text, please email us.
We will put you on the podcast just as a scripture reader.
Demetrius.
So it's likely that, uh, I'm as I'm reading this, it sounds like, uh, Diotrophis is probably
saying something about Demetrius and he's like, no, we know Demetrius.
You can trust him.
He's a good man.
He's following the gospel and don't let, uh, the things that diatrophis is saying influence
how you treat Demetrius.
And by the way, uh, this is, we could, we could do a whole springboard into this and
we're going to, I'm just going to touch on it a little bit.
If you're part of a church that has a very gossipy culture, that's another huge red flag,
huge red flag, huge red flag.
If it's a church that's like, Oh, I'm going to bad mouth this other believer in the community.
That is a huge red flag.
Um, I learned a long time ago, if I hear a bad report about somebody, I'm like, you know
what?
I want them to prove that to me themselves.
Um, not, uh, not, it may be true, right?
Like don't get me wrong.
It may be true, but there's, but it may not be true.
Right.
Um, like I've had people come to me even in our community and been like, well, you know,
I've heard this said about you.
And I was like, okay, well, I'm like, okay, well, do you want to talk to me about the
issues that you think people have with me?
Or do you just want to encourage other or should you just encourage that person to come
talk to me directly?
Right.
And they're like, well, you know, I just wanted to let you know, I was like, I was like, no,
I hear what you're saying.
I was like, but the reality is if someone has an issue with me and they're not willing
to step up and do the biblical thing and come have a conversation with me, then how much
credit do I need to give that?
And yeah, and I mean, take a, take a letter out of, or take a beat out of what John says
here is like, just keep doing what you're doing.
Don't let, don't let it influence you.
Yeah.
Like, cause I think it's really easy when people are like, oh, well, let me tell you
about the garbage that's going on and why this person is terrible.
It is really easy to get on one of those trains.
Right.
And, uh, and I'm like, you know, that's just not what I've seen.
And so I'm just going to not give it any credence until, uh, I'm going to allow people the opportunity
to screw up their, like to mess up their, my opinion of them to me.
So I'm going to let them show me who they are.
So the flip side of that is, uh, and this, as I say this, you might be like, oh, that's
a really different way to look at it.
But if you are willing to let people prove how good or bad they are to you, uh, if the
report is that if they truly are like a horrible person to be around, right.
What it actually allows you to do is be Christ to them and give them a chance for redemption.
Yeah.
Simply by saying, you know what?
I hear these bad things about you, but you know what?
I'm you have to prove that to me yourself.
You're actually saying, you know what?
I see, I hear these evil things you're doing.
I hear how bad of a person you are.
I'm pointing at Ben right now because he's the only one in there.
Cause I'm, I'm the evil person.
Ben's the evil person in my life.
Um, hey, listen, it wouldn't be the first time somebody called me an evil person.
Uh, wouldn't be the first time someone called me one either.
So, um, but, uh, honestly, if you're going to do effective ministry for Jesus, at some
point somebody or somebody is going to say bad things about you.
Just make sure that they're saying bad things about you because you're following Jesus and
not because you're just being a jerk.
Yeah.
But when you give those people a chance, you're actually being Christ to them and showing
them how much Jesus loves them.
So in second John, he's saying when people are materially changing the person of Jesus
Christ, you shouldn't encourage them.
You shouldn't invite them into your home.
And it seems like this, this idea then gets divided out, which is what's happened in the
church a lot of times.
Like, and I'm just speaking church locally, like, uh, uh, us, right.
Is that we then are like, okay, well, which issues are, can we just disassociate with
people about?
And that seems a lot of what diatrophosis is going into is that he wants to be the leader.
He's got to figure it out.
If you don't agree with him, you know, and that doesn't even mean that diatrophosis is
a bad person.
It just means that he's very zealous in his pursuit of, of Jesus, uh, or it could mean
that he's very zealous in his pursuit of Jesus.
And he's not willing to compromise a portion of it to the point where he's not actually
even listening to Jesus himself.
Well, there's a difference between just being straight up evil and misguided, right?
Risk guided.
Yeah.
And a lot of times there are people who hold these really hard and fast opinions.
The best thing we can do for him is pray for him and have patience and let the Holy Spirit
do his work to not let it influence what we're going to do, but allow Jesus and the Holy
Spirit to do his work in them or the person that God puts an authority over them.
And uh, and the thing is I'm not interested in going and converting people who already
know Jesus.
I am interested in talking to people who don't know Jesus or want to go further with Jesus,
but having that conversation.
Right?
So uh, hopefully like those two letters, you can kind of hear like there are some places
where you don't encourage it and you actually are like, Hey, listen, I can't allow this
in my house.
Yeah.
Right.
And it's when you're compromising the person of Jesus Christ, when you're compromising
the very person, Jesus Christ, cause that's all who it's about.
It's all wrapped up into Jesus.
Yeah.
Right.
All of Torah pointed to him, all of, uh, everything that comes after the gospel points back to
him.
Right.
And we live through him.
And uh, and so if that's compromised, that's a problem.
Everything else we need to have grace and figure it out with each other.
Yeah.
Right.
And trust the Holy spirit to do his work, trusting in the word that is in our hearts.
And honestly, a lot of us on our phones that we can come to and have an honest conversation
about these and not pick and choose verses for the perspective of, uh, pushing our opinion.
Right.
Uh, I'm not picking a verse and being like, well, the Bible says this and pulling it out
of context, right?
I'm actually reading.
What does it actually say?
What is the intention?
Cause if I just read second John or third John, I might not.
And didn't contextualize it with first John.
I might have some wildly different opinions about what these mean.
Yeah.
Right.
And then I want to point out here one more time, cause I love this.
Uh, one more time.
Uh, I have much to write you, but I do not want to do so with pen and ink.
I hope to see you soon and we will talk face to face.
Face to you, the friends here, send their greetings, greet the friends there by name.
Right.
I just, I love that.
Once again, he's like, Hey, I could write a lot more, but I wanted to let you know,
I know what's going on and I also know what you're doing.
Don't let what's going on affect what you're doing.
Like you're killing it.
Keep going.
That by the way is, uh, I'm going to, we're just going to save for the pastors out there,
ministry leaders, Christians who are just living their existence with Christ in a really
good way.
You guys are killing it.
Quit doing that.
Don't get distracted by political season.
Don't get distracted by things that other churches do.
Go and focus on being the light in your community, spreading the kingdom of God, having authentic
relationships and shining light in the world.
Right.
How you love your community for the sake of Christ is way more important than how you
vote.
It a hundred percent is the thing that will determine whether or not people know that
you're part of the kingdom of God is not whether or not you slap the I voted sticker on your
chest.
It's going to be, uh, how you love the people around you.
Because Jesus makes a statement.
He says a new command I give to you love one another as I have loved you.
So you should love one another by this.
All the people in the world are going to know that you're my disciples.
If you have love for one another, then comes back to second John and third John is, uh,
I, I, this command is to love, to obey the commands and the command is to love, obey
the command.
The command is to love feeds in on itself over and over and over again.
You cannot separate love for God and love for your brother.
You cannot separate love for God and love for the outcast.
Those things are, uh, irreconcilable if you separate them because love for God is always
going to turn into love for people.
And oftentimes someone who, who genuinely loves people and you're like, Oh, but they're
not following Jesus.
I was like, well, they just haven't accepted the truth of who God is yet.
Right.
I will meet them where they're at.
I will not condone their life, but I will invite them to something deeper.
But whether they know God or not, they are reflecting his nature.
Correct.
Because they are made in the image of God.
Yeah.
Our job is to pull away everything that doesn't reflect.
Amen.
Yeah.
In a, in a good way.
Yep.
Yeah.
Some of you are like, I got the chisel and hammer.
Let's go.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Yeah.
We, we want to pull, pull the gold out of people's lives and allow them to reflect the nature
of Jesus.
Yep.
Yeah.
Amen.
That's it.
Little book, big message.
That was five books.
Yep.
Yeah.
It was good.
Yeah.
Until next time.
And that's a wrap for today's episode of Love and Context.
We hope you enjoyed this engaging conversation and gained valuable insights into the powerful
message of love within the Bible.
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