Season two of Love in Context podcast welcomes you.
Get ready for engaging unscripted conversations with your hosts, Ben and Spencer.
Our mission remains unchanged to explore the Bible through the powerful lens of love.
In this new season, we'll embark on a journey together, unearthing fresh insights and gaining
deeper understanding of how we can love God and live out our faith in practical ways.
So let's dive into this season of Love in Context, where love and the context of the
Bible intersect to transform our lives.
All right.
Welcome back, everybody.
As you can see, we're back in our, well, you can see if you're watching the video on YouTube.
If you are listening to this, you probably can't tell just from seeing it that we are
back in our normal recording spot.
Oh yeah.
We got hit with rain sudden and quickly and we're like, maybe we don't record around the
fire this weekend.
So in Alaska, for those of you who don't know, you get these beautiful summers, little tiny
snippet of fall, and then winter hits.
So we're in that snippet of fall and before too long it's going to be...
It's like summer, fall, winter.
Yeah, exactly.
That's what it is.
Exactly.
So, oh man.
So we are in week four of Little Book, Big Message.
Week four.
This week we're going to be in second, John, and then we're going to finish out next week
in third, John.
I actually was looking in the Bible that I have, it's actually literally on one page.
Both books.
There's small little letters.
So when we say little book, we're not messing around.
No, we are not.
I was, we were talking a little bit before we were talking about recording this and I
think we would do a little bit of a disservice if we immediately jumped into second, John,
without helping them understand the context of all three of these letters and where they're
being written.
So we're going to do that really quickly with you guys if you know this story, then just
pretend like you don't and hearing it for the first time.
So this is John and while there is no definitive answer that this is definitely John that wrote
the Gospel of John, most consensus falls around that because of the Greek, because of the
way that it's written, because of the language.
He is called in second and third, John, he's called the Elder.
And he is writing to a group of house churches likely in the Ephesus region.
And I say region because it's not going to be just in Ephesus, but it's going to be in
that whole area.
And he's writing to them.
He specifically first, second and third, John, he's writing them these letters because something
has happened that has caused a kerfuffle in the church.
Not that we've ever seen something like that happen, right?
Never.
And so the first book, what he's doing is he's reminding them of what they're going
to be called to be.
So in the, in first John, he has two major themes, right?
The first one is Jesus is light and you're invited to walk in this light.
And if you're in darkness, there's a really easy solution.
Step into the light.
Yep.
Right.
I do think that it's there.
There's some really great phrases in here.
And I was talking to a friend of mine this week and we were talking about how Jewish
people are very cut and dry in their writing.
Right.
If you say you love God, but you don't love your brother or sister, you're a liar.
And now that sounds harsh to us, but John is also like, but Jesus loves liars and he
will invite you right back into his kingdom.
All you need to do is step back into the light.
You're doing something wrong.
You are not wrong.
What you're doing is wrong.
Now come back to who you're supposed to be.
Right.
Um, so that's one of the major themes of first John.
The other major theme of second, uh, first John is that God is love.
And so both God is light and God is love are both expressed most fully through the person
of Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
Um, putting God and Jesus as synonymous, not the same person, but synonymous, um, as
far as they are the author, perfecter, um, the, the origination and the, and the propagation
of this light and love.
Right.
And so it all is coming down to Jesus.
The design of the father was always leading to Jesus.
Jesus was with God in the beginning.
Uh, you actually will hear that in the gospel of John in the beginning was the word.
Right.
And so he's, uh, the whole first letter isn't even written necessarily as a letter.
It's kind of more written as a, uh, poetic sermon to them of things that they already
know.
Yep.
He's reminding that he's not telling them new stuff.
He's like, Hey, by the way, we all know these things.
And it's really important because then in that first letter, he addresses the fact that
there are people who are going around in this region who are discrediting Jesus or Jesus
is not the center.
Jesus is, uh, you know, the conversation is whether or not Jesus was fully man, was he
fully God?
Uh, did he actually exist physically going into some like Dota system, right?
And a Gnosticism and, uh, or is Jesus actually the Messiah?
And there are people going around and they're trying to go into these different house churches
and spread this message that is not the gospel as a fact, anti gospel.
And so he gives them the sermon.
He sets it up in this context.
God is light.
Jesus is light.
If you dwell in the light, you walk with Jesus.
God is love.
Jesus is love.
If you walk in love, you walk with Jesus.
And that's the setting up before you get into second John.
And I think the reason I wanted to spend some time there is there are going to be some verses
that we're going to read that if you don't place them in the context of first John, you
can easily use them to cause division that shouldn't be there.
Yeah.
And just to touch on the authorship piece of it, there is debate whether it was John
the apostle or John the elder.
And those, there were two different people.
Correct.
There was John the apostle and John the elder.
And when people are like, and this is where people get kind of confused.
I'm just putting this out there for people to be like, okay, take it or leave it.
Where people get confused on like, well, is this John the apostle or John the elder?
Well, it doesn't really matter too much because both those individuals actually work closely
together.
Correct.
And they worked in the same communities.
And so it'd be the equivalent of like two people named Ben working at the church we're
at, right?
Yeah.
We're working for the same message.
We're likely saying the same thing.
And so even whether it was John the apostle or John the elder, they are writing to the
same community in the same context, addressing the same issues.
Something similar to that, but not exactly the same is when we were reading through Jude
and I said, Jude and a second Peter sound very similar, right?
It's almost like they were in the same room writing letters at the same time.
Yeah.
Right.
They're the, all the, the apostles are working together, listening to the same spirit, the
same God, the same testimony of Jesus working through them.
And so while authorship is there's a conversation around it, you should hear all of these contextually
together.
Yes.
Yeah.
And, and if you, if you think, Hey, John is author of the gospel and for a second, third
John.
Great.
If you disagree, you should still hear echoes of the same conversation throughout that.
Yeah.
All right.
So let's go into a second John that is located on page 657 of your Bibles.
And we're going to be in chapter one.
Yeah.
Some of you are going to be like, wait, go open up the Bible and be like, Oh, that's
funny Spencer.
Yeah, it's good.
I like it.
I chortled inside.
Yeah.
I got a little musty eyed when you said that.
Yeah, thanks.
Yeah, you're welcome.
Oh man.
All right.
So let's start here at the beginning.
It says second John, first thing says the elder.
So obviously they know who they're talking about to the lady chosen by God and to her
children whom I love in the truth and not I only, but also all who know the truth because
of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever.
Once again, coming back to first John, where he's talking about what it means to actually
live in Christ, grace, mercy, and peace from God, the father and from Jesus Christ, the
father's son will be with us in truth and love.
It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth just as
the father commanded us.
And now dear lady, I am not writing you a new command, but one we have had from the
beginning.
I ask that we love one another and this is love that we walk in obedience to his commands.
As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
Okay.
So he's already said the context coming back to first John, it's about walking in love.
Now I think it's really easy when you see that piece of obedience for this.
Well, but if you really love God, you're going to obey him.
Yeah, that's true.
Well, we've conflated and combined the idea of obedience and discipline.
Yeah.
So what I mean by that is a lot of times we'll take it.
Well, I'm going to be obedient to God, so I need to go confront this person about their
whatnot, right?
Right.
Well, the reality is discipline can only take place if you're putting authority over someone.
Correct.
So like a father can discipline a child because they're putting, or a mother can discipline
a child because they're put an authority over that child.
Right.
Or, or vice versa.
Like an employer can discipline an employee because they're putting authority over him.
Right.
But when it comes to like friend to friend, like when it comes to our relationship, I
have no authority to discipline you.
Yeah.
Right.
It'd be strange if you did.
Yeah.
If I want, if I want to-
I want to submit to you in friendship, right?
Exactly.
This comes back to Pastor Sarah saying you can't correct without connection.
Yeah.
So you kind of have to take those two ideas and you need to separate them out a little
bit.
Like we want to be obedient to God, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
Sometimes that does mean going and confronting a brother or sister about something.
Right.
Sometimes that does mean that.
But when it comes to discipline, it's really God the father who's the one who takes care
of that.
Right.
Yeah.
And I, I, I have church trauma, church hurt, if you want to call it from my past, that
tends to leak through and the things that I think about growing up and people that I've
dealt with that have caused damage in my life, where they, they gauge the amount that you
love Jesus by the amount that they think you obey him.
And, and, and I don't want to discredit that because I do think that as you love Jesus,
you're going to do more things that please him.
But you don't do obedient things so that God loves you, you or so that you love God, you
love God.
And so you obey him.
Does that make sense?
Like it is a self feeding thing because otherwise what you end up doing is like, you're like,
okay, God, I'm going to do this litany of things.
And because I did this litany of things, I'm going to walk in your favor and love.
Yeah.
Right.
And that, that's a problem because that's not a relationship.
That's a, that's a vending machine.
Yeah.
Right.
And, and like, I don't want to discredit vending machines because I love getting stuff out
of vending machines, but your relationship with God shouldn't be a vending machine.
Yeah.
And, and really like, if you are talking about obedience and discipline when it comes into
your life, really discipline takes place when disobedience happens.
Yeah.
Right.
Um, we had, like, I had example, my daughter the other day, she's like brought all her
toys downstairs and like, we were just tripping over everything and we were like, Hey, you
need to go take all your toys back to your room.
Yep.
And she said, yes, father.
And she was like, yes, mother.
And she was like, I was like, go put this back in your room.
She's like, Oh, I'm going to play with that later.
And like starting to make up all these excuses.
Finally my wife had none of it.
And she was like, whatever's not in the room in 10 minutes, I'm taking to the thrift store.
That house was cleaned up so fast.
So fast.
And I'm saying that's the best parenting strategy, that's just what happened.
But usually discipline comes when we're disobedient.
Right.
And there might be times where the Lord saying, Hey, you need to go to this person because
of their disobedience and have a conversation with them.
Right.
I've been in those moments.
But more often than not, I find that it's not us.
Let me put it this way.
Oftentimes we go out looking to enact discipline on people who aren't living the quote unquote
right way.
Yeah.
That is absolutely that, that can be a characteristic of self-righteous behavior.
Yeah.
And so I want to, I wanted to just pause there because I mean, I do honestly believe though,
that if you say you love God, cause it's coming back to first John and yet you hate your brother
or you don't exhibit the characteristics of love, like John says, you're a liar.
So if you say you love God and yet you don't obey any of his commands, like your life actually
tells the truth because you're actually going to, when you're in relationship with somebody
that matters, you're going to do things to please them because you're in relationship
with somebody that matters.
Yeah.
Um, I, I, uh, a good example, and I don't, I don't think that everything that I do in
my relationship is stuff that I don't want to do.
Right.
But there are things that I do as a husband.
I do because I love my wife.
Right.
And uh, I wouldn't naturally do those things, but because I love my wife and because I know
what she cares about, I do these things.
And that's not any different than, uh, your friendships, your, your, uh, even the way
you interact with your children.
There are things that you, I don't like laying on the ground and playing with dinosaurs,
but James does.
So I lay on the ground and play with dinosaurs.
Right.
And cause I want to connect with him and I want to, I want him to know that he's loved.
And uh, the, the problem is where you start to say, you don't love me unless you, uh,
obey.
I was like, even when you swing, when these things aren't actually put in context of relationship,
and they become like two, to your point, things of discipline or places where you're not actually
called to step into, they can be harmful.
Yeah.
Incredibly harmful.
And that's not the context of John's letters.
And it's not the context of the teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
And, uh, and so I think it's really important in these little books, we found that in Jude
when people blow up one verse without the context of that, everything else that comes
around it.
Yeah.
Right.
And, uh, coming back to this and I got off on, I'm sorry, this is a big, uh, and this
is a massive rabbit trail.
So it was a good one.
I like, I, it was a rabbit, but it was worth following.
It was like one of those chocolate rabbits.
Um, so, uh, John has specified, he, he says he's talking to, to the lady chosen.
Now there's conversations about, is this actually a lady who's a prominent teacher in the church?
Very possible.
Right.
Or a prominent, uh, uh, person who opens up their home for the church to meet.
And so she's taught, he's talking to a specific group or is he talking to the lady chosen
by God as he's talking in, in more metaphor about the church overall.
I'm fine with either one of those because they both apply.
Could be both too.
Yeah.
Um, so he's, he just comes and he says, reminder.
It's like, I love, um, that you're walking in the truth coming back to first John, right?
Just as the father commanded that we're going to live by loving one another.
And this is love that we walk in obedience with his commands.
As you have heard from the getting his command is that you walk in love.
So walk in obedience with his command and his command is to walk in love.
It's a circle, right?
These two things feed into each other.
Yeah.
All right.
So then let's get into the back, backside of this.
He specified love, uh, take care of people, walk in the light, be dearly love children.
Starting over seven.
Yeah.
I say, I say this because many deceivers have gone out into the world.
They deny that Jesus Christ came in a real body, such person as a deceiver and, and an
anti-Christ watch out, but watch out that, that you do not lose what we have worked so
hard to achieve.
Be diligent so that you can receive the full reward.
Anyone who wanders from this teaching has no relationship with God, but anyone who remains
in the teaching of Christ has a relationship with both the father and the son.
If anyone comes to a meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, don't invite
that person into your home or give any kind of encouragement.
Anyone who encourages such a, uh, such people becomes a partner in their evil works.
All right.
So what is the issue that these, these, these teachers are bringing is they are actually
saying Jesus was never actually here in flesh.
Yeah.
Um, if you are unfamiliar with this teaching, it was that Jesus, uh, came to, to earth and
he was actually a spirit the entire time.
Now this is maybe what John was dealing with.
It might be something else because there was a lot of, of, um, mischaracterizations of
Jesus that popped up in the century afterwards.
Right.
Um, but they're, they're saying Jesus did not come and dwell as a human, take on the
identity of a human, walk the earth as a human, go to the cross as a human, take the sin of
the world on himself as a human and go down into, uh, death as a human to be risen by
the father as a human and God the entire time.
That's a problem.
If you claim Jesus as Messiah.
Yes.
Like this is not a tertiary issue.
This is not, we're arguing about, should we do courses at church or hymns, right?
This isn't arguing about whether we should use, uh, we should sit in, uh, those padded
chairs or pews.
Padded chairs, padded chairs for sure.
They're, they're way easier to move, but some people love pews and that's like more like,
I love that for you.
Right.
I don't love it for my backside, but I love it for you.
Right.
What is that?
What's your phrase?
You said, I love that journey for you.
Love that journey for you.
Yeah.
Uh, this is not some ancillary issue.
This is a, this is a massive issue.
Yeah.
And I think we need to take a moment to, but talk and talk about how there are in the old
Testament in Torah in particular, there actually are a lot of metaphorical things that happen.
Right.
So like you can take a moment, see where they can get this idea that Jesus wasn't here in
flesh because in, in a Jewish mind, there will be people who can make this connection
without that being like quote unquote too far of a stretch form.
With that said, with that said, if we deny Jesus, Jesus coming in flesh to this world
for our sins, we actually deny the core essence of, of the need for sacrifice and the need
for atonement and the need for restoration.
And if this is in fact, John, who was traveling with Jesus for three years, like he walked,
ate, slept, um, everything with Jesus, right?
For three and a half years.
And not, not only that, when Jesus comes to his disciples and like, remember not the 12
because there's more than 12 disciples, right?
There's 12 that are the core, but there's more than 12 disciples of follow Jesus.
But when he comes to them and he says, I want you to put your fingers in my side and in
my hands where the holes were actually dug in, right?
So you can feel the flesh.
And then he spends 40 days with them.
Like he doesn't just like come back.
He he's like, he physically spends time with them for a good period of time.
Well and the things that he did when he first rose from the dead too is, uh, when he came
to restoring Peter, um, from the denial three times, what was he doing on the beach when
Peter saw him?
He was cooking fish.
He was like, we're going to have a meal.
We're going to have a meal and he eats, eats food.
Like he's there.
So they see him consume.
Now with the thing that they're talking, he's talking about here, cause I want to get into
a little bit where he says, don't invite them into your home.
Don't welcome them.
So you, if you remember back in, in the gospels, Jesus sends out the 12 and he also sends out
the 72 and he says that you're going to go preach the gospel, uh, preach the good news,
uh, drive out demons, heal the sick, raise the dead.
Yeah.
Right.
And he sends out demons and spirits and innocent as does.
And like people are going to come against you specifically religious people are going to
come against you.
Uh, but when you go, you speak a blessing of people invite you into their house after
you've spoken.
So after you've shared the good news, the expectation is the community, and this is
a very middle Eastern thing is going to invite you in and take care of you because you're
not going to have a place to stay or food to eat or a place to rest your head.
Um, they're going to invite you and they're going to take care of you.
And John is saying, I know the, the, uh, the implication or the, uh, you're going to want
to invite these people into your house, uh, to take care of them and as ministers of the
gospel, but that's not who they are.
They're actually preaching an anti gospel.
He says anti Christ.
You could just think it as the anti gospel, like the anti message of Jesus, um, that they
are actually compromising the very gospel that Jesus came to present.
And you shouldn't invite these people into your home to be recognized as spiritual authority
figures into your life.
Yeah.
Notice he also doesn't say, don't talk to them.
Don't, uh, he's like, don't actually intermingle your life with them.
Yeah.
He specifically says, uh, don't invite them in and don't encourage the teaching.
Correct.
Um, and so, uh, yeah, he says, don't invite that person into your home or give any type
of type of encouragement for anyone who encourages such people, partners in their evil work.
I think a really good example of this elsewhere in scripture where somebody dealt with this
and not somebody who was intentionally speaking incorrectly, but when Apollo originally spoke,
he had some knowledge of what was going on, but he didn't understand the baptism of the
spirit.
And so Priscilla and Aquila said, Hey, why don't you come into our house?
Not as a minister, not to speak into our lives, but let us speak into you and help you, you
find these things and find a, like the correct path, right?
What Jesus is actually doing.
And so that's a, that's a circumstance where they're not inviting them in to take care
of him as a minister, but they recognize the potential.
And so Priscilla and Aquila, they could have just as easily, you know, the, Oh, we're not
going to associate with Apollo.
No, no, we see the guy's doing something here and we want to pull that out.
And so I think when that with this passage, it's if people are going and they're compromising
the person of Jesus Christ, and I want to specify, they are compromising the person of
Jesus Christ, not your opinion of the person of Jesus Christ.
And pause there.
Why is the person of Jesus Christ important?
And like big reason for that is because if in fulfillment of Torah in order for sins
to be atoned, you had to have a physical sacrifice.
Correct.
Right.
Like you were, you were embowing your spirit onto the animal and onto their flesh.
And that was going into the throne room, which in the context of Torah, which we've talked
about past seasons was actually a great act of mercy because it didn't require human
sacrifice.
Correct.
Um, and so you were able to instill, like, in bow your sins onto that animal and then
they would be the one sacrificed.
If you, if you, by the way, are wondering exactly what we're talking about, you're a
new listener.
Go back to season one in Leviticus when we're talking about the sacrificial system, but you
know, we, they cast your identity onto Jesus, who is the sacrifice and our identity goes
in with him.
And as the writer of Hebrews says, uh, we are in the throne room of God in Jesus.
Yeah.
So we're carried to this presence.
So there has to be a physical sacrifice that takes place.
Um, and so if Jesus did not come and flesh, there was no physical sacrifice that took
place.
Yeah.
Um, but the reality is, is he did.
And because of that physical sacrifice, we're able to enter into the throne room of God
because of the work of Christ in our lives.
And so you, so if you're like, well, Jesus didn't really come and flush, that is actually
a primary issue theologically that we have to address.
So one of the, I think there is a, there is a major issue intellectually in American Christianity
right now where people are really combating this like conversation.
And I want to talk about something.
It's a fancy term.
It's called the hypostatic union.
Okay.
In fact, there was actually a band called hypostatic union.
I don't know if you ever listened to them, but, um, so this, this idea is that, is that
the Bible clearly portrays Jesus as God all the time and it clearly portrays him as a
man all the time.
And both of those things are true all the time.
And then you, and then, uh, the reality is that none of us really understand how that
works, but there's this union of these two, like fully man and fully God, and none of
us completely know how it works.
Nor do we need to, nor do we need to, but there are a number of denominations, uh, that
follow Christ that will sit around and argue about these things and call it the people
heretics who do believe fully God, fully man, but they don't, they're trying to in their
head figure out how they rationalize that and following Jesus and they have disagreements.
This is not the same thing that John is talking about in this letter.
No.
Because if I am having a conversation with someone and I say, do you believe that Jesus
was fully God and fully man?
They said, yes, I don't know how that works, but this is what I think.
You know what?
We'll figure it out.
Um, that is, uh, but when you're looking for something to disagree about that, that's
an easy one for people to do.
Yeah.
And so this conversation with John is, is not an, um, it's not a small thing that they're
disagreeing about.
It is a massive thing.
Yeah.
And he's saying, don't encourage it.
Don't invite it into your home.
But he also doesn't say, don't go redeem it.
Yeah.
But he's saying, don't encourage the teaching.
Don't invite it into your home.
Don't elevate it in position, but it is something that you should go and take care of it.
Now, once again, in the, in the context of, uh, correction, he says that if somebody is
you have ought against somebody, you're going to go talk to them privately.
Then you bring somebody else.
Then you bring it before the church.
And if they won't, uh, won't come back at that point, you treat them like a tax collector
and sinner.
Now, what have we said on the podcast that Jesus has with tax collectors and sinners?
He sits with them, enjoys meals with them, invites them, talks to them about the kingdom,
invites them in.
So it's not a license to just be done with people.
It's a license to actually invest the kingdom into those people in a different way.
So when it comes to the sitting down and having a meal, I've, I've said this before and I'll
say it again and I'll probably say it a few more times.
Um, but, uh, if they do not follow Jesus or live in the way of Christ, like do not hold
them to that standard.
And because I think a lot of times I've, I've met plenty of people who follow Jesus and
with the best intentions, they'll sit down with someone who doesn't and they'll immediately
try to hold that person who doesn't follow Jesus to the standard of following Jesus.
But the problem is, is they don't follow Jesus yet.
Right.
Like, um, if I was to put this, to just give you an example, if I was to take my six year
old daughter and hold her to the standard of an 18 year old, it wouldn't work.
Right.
If I was to give her a text, if I was to give her a high school textbook that she would get
her senior year and said, Hey, read this, understand this.
She would be like, what she's like learning how to sound out words right now.
Yeah.
Right.
She would not be able to be like, okay, I can read a trigonometry textbook.
Right.
So like there's, there's this idea of maturing in Christ, maturing in your relationship with
Jesus and growing in that relationship.
Right.
So we might be in one spot in our relationship with Jesus, but don't use that to say this
is what it looks like for everybody.
Correct.
Yeah.
So when we're having that meal with people, uh, we want to accept people where they're
at, love them where they're at and encourage them in their walk.
I was having a conversation with a person who does not follow Jesus, but they wanted
to talk about the Bible, which I'm always, yep, let's talk about it.
Right.
And, uh, and they said, well, I just don't know if I want to give up whatever it is.
Yeah.
And I said, I hear what you're saying.
And I said, uh, the, the issue is that you're talking about, what do I have to give up?
And eventually you're going to come to this point is, is Jesus worth everything?
In which case I'm not giving up anything.
Yeah.
I'm actually getting something far greater in return.
And uh, and I was like, but until you decided that, because you can't just add Jesus to
your life, like Jesus, you give your life to Jesus.
Yeah.
Which becomes his life, uh, that is that you live.
Right.
And, uh, so until you're ready to step into that, I'm not going to sit in judgment over
you over the things that you choose to do, but I will also let you know that some of
those things are going to lead to destruction in some really bad ways because sin is, is
meant to crush you.
Yeah.
I was like, but I'm also not going to stand in judgment of you because you live that way.
You're not choosing to follow Jesus.
What I am going to do is continue to invite you into this kingdom that is different than
anything else you can imagine.
Yeah.
Because Jesus is a pretty cool dude.
Yeah.
I mean, I would just add to, and I was talking about like accepting people where they're
at, that doesn't mean leaving them where they're at.
Correct.
Yeah.
Right.
There's time you, when we enter into people's lives, we want to see change and accepting
them where they're at doesn't mean condoning their actions either.
No, it's just realizing where they add or meet and meeting them there.
Right.
Um, and not leaving them there.
Exa, like, well, example, our relationship, we find value in different things, right?
Uh huh.
Yeah.
Your front yard looks a lot different than mine.
It does.
Yeah.
It looks very different than yours.
Yeah.
Uh, for one thing, um, my kids leave their, uh, bikes and everything all over the place.
Now I know, uh, uh, your kid does too, but, um, I feel like there's a lot of them.
And also there's a, uh, unfinished shed that I've had there for months.
Um, don't worry, I'll get to it soon.
Yeah.
Right.
So, but like, I mean, in light and like, you can look at Ben and be like, man, you
got an unfinished shed.
It's like, we're just not going to go into what's unfinished in my yard right now.
The list is a lot more than just a shed.
Yeah.
But I mean, there's different things we put values on, which aren't necessarily bad, but
we need to be willing to accept each other where we're at, join in relationship where
people are at.
And, uh, and again, that doesn't mean leaving them there because if someone's going down
the wrong path, you want to try to encourage them, uh, back to the right way.
I, uh, we've said it on the podcast and I think it bears repeating again.
We don't change people's lives.
Jesus does coming back to this quote from first John, which is going to apply to what
we're talking about here.
When we're talking about moving in people's lives, if we walk in the light as he is in
the light, uh, we have fellowship together and the blood of Christ purifies us from all
unrighteousness.
Okay.
We don't get pure and then go stand in the light.
We become pure by walking in the light, the light, which is Jesus, right?
We are purified by walking in love, the love that is Jesus, the things that are a part
of our lives that are garbage start to fall away because we start to actually, uh, turns
out when you turn on the light in a room and you see how nasty it is, you kind of want
to clean up a little bit, right?
But it's not cleaning up and then coming to it's actually the relationship that purifies
us as we go.
And so we invite people to the light and allow Christ to do the work and we love people along
the journey as they're going.
And we just trust in the Holy spirit and Jesus Christ to do the transformative work.
Yes.
Sometimes we have those tough conversations, but they're always saturated in love and light.
100%.
All right.
Last little thing here, because I think this is really cool.
Um, I have much to write to you, but I do not want to use paper and ink.
Instead, I hope to visit you and talk with you face to face that our joy may be complete.
The children of your sister who is chosen by God, send their greetings.
Um, this is Ben editorializing something in here in the book for sure.
100% this is not a, I got a gospel truth.
Stop sending text messages and writing letters.
Go talk to somebody.
Now some of you communicate better than rewritten word.
I love that for you have conversations with people because they can't read your intention
through text.
It's so true.
Yeah.
So true.
I, I absolutely despise it when people are trying to send emotional conversational pieces
to me via text, right?
Because I'm like, no, no, like this is not the way to do this because one, I don't really
know what's going on with you in that case.
Like I can be of much better service if we sit down face to face.
Right.
And so like a rule that my wife and I have in our relationship is that like text message
is for information.
Like it's informational.
Like I'm not going to send a long bloated text message about an emotional thing I'm
having.
Um, it's going to be for informational.
I might, I might send a text message being like, Hey, here's something I'm struggling
with today.
Just want to let you know.
So next time we see each other, right?
Yeah.
Um, might something like that, but we're not going to have emotional outbursts over text
because you don't know the person's intention.
Well, and I'm always going to read your message or email letter, text message, all the similar
ideas.
I'm going to read your message through my own bias and I'm not going to see your intentions
unless I'm face to face with you because then I can ask a question.
I was like, did you mean this?
And you're like, Nope, not at all.
Or yes, that's absolutely what I meant.
Okay.
Now I know what we need to talk about.
Yeah.
Um, I worked with a lady years ago and she was very emotional about everything and she
often communicated that with me via text.
And so, and then she would get upset.
She'd be like, well, your, your text seems so dry and like, didn't seem like you cared
at all.
And so we finally, we sat down and I was like, well, I just didn't know what you were going
through.
Like I can't read your mind via text.
I can't read the emotions you're going through.
I can't, can't see the hurt you're feeling right now or how you're frustrated with me.
Um, side note, I was her boss and so she was frustrated with some stuff at work.
And I was like, I was like, well, I can't, I can't tell that.
So like, if you have a problem, you have to come talk to me face to face.
And that was something that she couldn't ever get over.
So she quit like three months later because I, because I had to set that boundary.
Like, no, if there's an issue, you gotta come talk to me face to face or set up a meeting
time so we can talk.
And that's the, the reality though, is that's when those things get worked out.
If you just try to resolve stuff over text, it just gets worse.
So what's the message of second John, we're called to walk in light.
We're called to walk in love.
If we love God, we're going to obey his commands and his commands is that we walk in love.
These are, are self feeding things.
When we run into people who compromise the person of Jesus Christ, when, when they're
compromising the very person of Jesus Christ, we should not elevate that.
And we should not invite that into our homes, but we should go and try to redeem it.
Like reach out as, as a, like if they're tax collectors and sinners.
And one good way to do that is face to face with a meal.
Oh yeah.
And don't rely so much on the written word, but actually spend some time talking to people,
having authentic conversations about faith-based life.
Amen.
Yeah.
Little book, big message.
Absolutely.
Till next time.
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