Season two of Love in Context podcast welcomes you.
Get ready for engaging unscripted conversations with your host, Ben and Spencer.
Our mission remains unchanged to explore the Bible through the powerful lens of love.
In this new season, we'll embark on a journey together, unearthing fresh insights and gaining
deeper understanding of how we can love God and live out our faith in practical ways.
So let's dive into this season of Love in Context, where love and the context of the
Bible intersect to transform our lives.
Welcome to the first campfire session of Love in Context.
We figured it's summer, we may as well embrace it.
But yeah, right?
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's my thought.
And what better way to we're going to round out the last two episodes of James today and
episode one now and then week from now you'll see episode two, but it's actually happening
now we're recording it now.
So but yeah, let's just jump into it.
And it's good.
Yeah, fires.
I was actually at I mean, you remember I was in Idaho.
Yeah.
And it's very different in Idaho because all of the wood is very dry.
Yeah.
So you have to be careful how big you build your fire and how quickly versus here where
it's always wet.
It's always wet.
Always.
It's always wet.
So you're like, well, we'll just need to be a little bit careful.
So in Idaho, I was burning some of my sister in law, she had like branches and stuff she
cut down, she needed Brent burnt.
And so I was doing that and I was like, it was 98 degrees outside.
And you know, I like eight o'clock at night.
And you're like, this was way too easy.
And it went well.
But it was also like the fire made it like 120 degrees.
So I was feeling very Shadrach Meshach in a Bendigo.
Yeah.
It was like, I was like, where's the fourth person?
Right.
Oh, it's me.
I'm the fourth person right now.
I'm like, I'm going to be this fire at a workout for 15 minutes to get it going because everything
was so wet.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's like, all right.
Exactly.
So because we are in a mobile set, the audio may be a little bit different.
We're used we're trying clip on mics this week.
So we'll see how that works.
We're going to try for our mobile sets.
And yeah, yeah.
All right.
So if you have been following along with us, we're going to pick up in James chapter four
verse 13.
And I'm just going to read a section here.
Now listen, you who say today or tomorrow, we will go to this or that city, spend a year
there carry on business and make money.
Why?
You don't even know what will happen tomorrow.
What is your life?
You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
Instead, you want to say if it is Lord's will, we will do this and we will do that.
As it is, you boast in your arrogance schemes.
All such boasting is evil.
If anyone then knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.
And I think I want to pause there before we get into the next section.
So we've talked about how this book references back into Jewish tradition.
When he says, you know, your day is like a vapor, like it's here today, gone tomorrow.
Very reminiscent of Ecclesiastes.
Everything is heathel.
You know, it's a mist.
It's whenever you try to get a hold of it, it's actually gone.
I was actually thinking about that song that is really popular now, Firm Foundation.
And one of the reasons Firm Foundation is really popular is because the only firm foundation
we have is actually Christ.
When you try to build your life on these shifting sands, these things that aren't permanent.
When you're like, I'm going to build my life on my career.
Even you're going to build your life on your family.
These things that are temporary.
It's one of these things that the harder you grip into it, the more that it kind of goes
away like a cloud, like a shadow, like a vapor.
And like James is reminding them of this rich literature in Torah, which is that you need
to actually foundationally place yourself on the things that are important.
He's not saying don't make money.
He's not saying don't make plans.
He's like, when you do these things, make sure that you're actually doing them from
a place.
Yeah.
And when you own a business, you're forward thinking.
You have to plan.
When you start a business, you have to plan.
I'm probably not going to see profit for two or three years.
And then after that, I'll start to see profit.
Like you're going to have a tough couple of years in front of you.
You have to look ahead.
Right.
But it seems don't dwell on that.
Yeah.
Well, and especially thinking of because a lot of their their traditions would be agricultural.
Right.
So if you are a I was going to say gardener, but I've but I like a farmer.
That's what I'm looking for.
A farmer like you already have to plan for the next season in your current season.
Yeah.
Right.
So you have to plan ahead.
You have to plan ahead.
But you're planning ahead is based on this foundation of everything belongs to God.
Well, and even gardening, man.
Like, yeah, like when your garden season comes to an end, you're adding things to the soil
so that next year it's good to go.
Yeah.
Right.
Like we live in Alaska.
Like one of the things we go collect every every fall is we go collect a lot of kelp
along shorelines.
And we mix that in with coffee grounds.
And we have this whole thing.
We do, but that goes into our garden like you guys do.
Yeah.
Right.
My wife likes the garden.
Yeah.
Like I'm very supportive of it, which often means I'm down on the beach with buckets collecting
kelp.
Right.
By the way, if anybody doesn't know what kelp is because you live in it, it's it's like
seaweed, basically.
Yeah.
But you do that.
So the soil is good to go for next year.
Like you add things to it so that it can thrive for future years.
Right.
And if you don't do that, it dies.
And so like you have to be forward thinking.
But it's it's like when I look at this verse, I'm like, you know, you have to be forward
thinking, but you also have to be willing to adapt.
Well, and and contextually with everything James has talked about to this point, it's
like, you know, when you engage trials, it's supposed to bring out the best character.
And when you when you accumulate wealth, it's not on the backs of other people.
Yeah.
You don't show favoritism for one person over another.
These are all rooted in Torah ideas.
Yeah.
Right.
And so this idea with Torah is you build as much as you want.
If you build it on the foundation of God as king.
Mm hmm.
Right.
And in our case, Jesus is king.
That's what James is going to proclaim.
Right.
Yeah.
And and but the but the second that you don't it becomes this thing where it says your life
is a mess.
It appears for a little while and advantages.
It becomes like this ecclesiastical idea of a hebel is the Hebrew word.
Yeah.
Right.
This thing that is there but not really there.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think I think there's probably been a good portion of my life where I put my trust
in Hevel.
Mm hmm.
Right.
And not surprisingly, it lets me know.
Mm hmm.
I mean, really.
Yeah.
You know, and well, and there's a lot of things that we're like, well, we have to like we
invest a lot of our trust into that are trivial things.
Correct.
Like take cars, for example.
Mm hmm.
Like we've it always comes back to cars for you too.
Yeah.
Considering I just spent a week under one and it's all good to go now.
But like and but like cars, for example, like it's nice to have a good reliable car.
Right.
But at some point it's going to break down.
It's going to fail your trust and you're going to have to either fix it or get something
else.
Right.
Mm hmm.
I was thinking about that's all this real today and they're talking about like Christians
will be like, oh, God never fails me and they're like, well, God failed me.
And then they went off on these things.
But then they were expecting God to do things that God said never said he would do.
Right.
And I was like, it's interesting.
Like in relationships like as a as a married man, like how does holding your wife accountable
to things she never said she would do go for you?
Wonderful.
Yeah, it's wonderful.
Every time.
And and they never goes wrong with that.
Which kind of comes back to this idea of like because we've talked about like teachers in
the past and this choice to like speak the word and even on the platform, like we talk
about Jesus a lot.
Yeah.
Is like when we're telling people to like seek Jesus, like we want to make sure that
they're actually clinging to promises of what God actually says in the word of God.
Mm hmm.
And not things that people talk about God because there's like this.
I mean, once again, I want to come back to this idea of the shifting shadow that we're
building on a lot of times.
And and it's one of the main reasons we have this podcast for like if you have real conversations,
you can actually find some like, hey, what does that actually say?
Yeah.
And there's been occasions where you and I were sitting down and talking and I'm like,
I was like, yeah, and I'm reading this.
I don't really know what he means by that.
You're like, it connects over here.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, it does.
It does connect over there.
That makes a lot more sense.
You know?
Well, and that that leads us into the next part of James in Chapter five, because he's
talking about like he's talking about like how you build wealth.
Right.
And in this tale part, Chapter four, like one about self-confidence, pride, boasting,
all this stuff.
And you get into five.
It says, Look here, you rich people, we've been grown with anguish because of all the
terrible troubles ahead of you.
Your wealth is rotting away.
It's like fine in your fine clothes or like moth in your eggs.
Your gold and silver are corroded.
The very wealth you are counting on will eat away your flesh like fire.
This corrodes the treasure that is hoarded that testifies against you on a day of judgment.
For listen, hear the cries of the field workers who have been cheated of their pay.
The cries of those whose harvest your fields have reached the ears of the Lord of Heaven's
armies.
Now, like I saw I've I've heard this passage interpreted like, OK, well, if you're following
the right path, you shouldn't be rich because like, man, it's going to rot away.
So that's not what they're saying.
It's not what it's saying.
It's saying it says that.
And then it goes into look how you abuse your wealth.
Right.
Like having you don't pay people the very wage that they just work for.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
And and so like sometimes what we do is like I know Christian business owners who are like,
all right, I'm doing this, but you know, I'm just going to pay my employees this and it's
an unlivable wage.
I can't do anything with what they're doing.
Right.
And and I know Christian business owners in our town where it's like you go to their establishment,
it's significantly more expensive.
But I also know them personally and I know they're paying their people well.
Right.
So I'm happy to pay the extra dollar to support that.
Right.
And so it's what's talking about don't abuse your wealth.
Right.
Don't abuse what you have.
Don't say, hey, you work really hard for me.
I'm not going to work a day in my life from now on.
I'm going to take all the money.
And if you in the previous paragraph, you've built your plans on your own ambitions and
everything and you haven't built your foundation on God, you're going to abuse your wealth.
But if you build it on God, you might make a billion dollars.
You might have 70 businesses or you might just excel in family and relationship and
whatever it is that God is prospering in your life because it's his plan and not yours.
But all of that stuff is going to be out.
It's going to be outflowing of generosity.
Yeah.
Right.
Like even even relationally, you should be generous.
Generous.
Yeah.
Generous.
Well, I hit that really weird.
Right.
And so and then it goes on and five and five and six where it's like you spent your years,
you spent your years on earth and luxury satisfying your own desire.
You have fattened yourselves for the day of slaughter.
You have condemned and killed innocent people who did not resist you.
Hmm.
Right.
Like these are some harsh accusations.
Right.
These aren't even people you're fighting with.
Yeah.
But you killed people who weren't even resisting you.
Yeah.
But this actually there's tie ins here because people are like, well, this is really harsh.
This actually ties back to some of the minor prophets where it ties back to Habakkuk, Joel,
Hosea and a few others where where the Lord's enacting judgment against Israel because of
their abuse of wealth over other people.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So that's one of the reasons that the Lord sent Babylon to invade.
Correct.
And so there's tie ins to the minor prophets here.
And so you have James saying like, look what's happened in the past.
And if you do this again, you know the consequences.
Yes.
Yeah.
Once again, I think we've said I've said it like a thousand times during these like five
episodes.
Mm hmm.
If you don't understand that James is speaking to Jews, you're going to miss the fact that
he's speaking history to them most of the time.
Like here, let's actually go because this is very, this feels very much because he one
talks to the people who are the oppressors.
But then in verse seven, he comes here and he starts saying this.
He says, be patient then brothers and sisters until the Lord's coming.
See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop patiently waiting for the
autumn.
The spring rains.
You to be patient and stand firm because the Lord's coming near.
Don't grumble against each other, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged.
The judge is standing at the door.
Yeah.
So brothers and sisters, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the
prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord.
Right.
So along with this is like, hey, there is corruption in the world.
You need to stand firm.
But also when you do see the corruption, like you need to you, you need to know that God
is going to come and set things right.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that doesn't mean that you don't work towards justice.
It doesn't mean that you don't work towards equity.
It doesn't mean that you don't work towards building up the marginalized.
But systemic evil is is taken over by the kingdom of God.
Right.
And it is going to happen.
That's what all the prophetic literature is talking about.
That as the kingdom of God comes, these things will be set right.
Your job is not to try to overturn evil, but to do good.
And by doing so, bring the kingdom of God where he overturns evil and become generous
when you're poor.
Exactly.
Like when you become generous and you're poor, then when you're gifted with a lot, you're
going to be all the more.
Yeah.
I if you're if you're not generous when you don't have money, you're definitely not going
to be when you do.
No.
Well, I should say definitely.
But most likely you're not generosity is a heart posture.
Correct.
It's not a we often view it as like a sense of like how much can I give?
That's not really what it is.
Like actually, Jesus speaks against that on a number of fronts.
But it's a heart posture of what can you get?
Yeah.
Right.
What can you offer?
And and sometimes it means you have to just give the five percent more so it hurts a little
bit.
Yeah.
Right.
And and that's never fun for that's never fun.
But I had a conversation with somebody.
They said, well, how much should I give to something that I really believe in?
I said enough that it is meaningful to you.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Because something matters to you and you're like, oh, I'll give 100 bucks to that.
And I was like, but you never even notice it left.
Mm hmm.
That's not what you listening or like managed.
Hundred bucks.
I read definitely notice it left.
Right.
Mm hmm.
But let's just say that you're just supposed to mink him.
You're like 100 bucks.
You don't even notice it left.
Mm hmm.
Is that actually meaningful contribution to what's going on?
Yeah.
So I don't I don't want to stress too far and be like you should give more than you're
able.
I think you should like a meaningful number that helps you understand that you're actually
putting forth an effort into this.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
I had a I had a time where I do a lot of fundraising for my job and and I had a time where someone
invited me into a church to present talking about stuff.
So I went presented talked about it.
All that stuff.
Church was 400 person church.
Mm hmm.
About four dollars.
Right.
Yeah.
And the church invited me to be there.
And like at the end of it, like my wife and I sat down like why why did we do this?
Yeah.
Right.
We were invited to be there.
We were we were expecting more more when we did the ask.
Yeah.
But they gave four dollars.
Yeah.
Right.
And this is a church that like prides themselves on being generous in the community.
Mm hmm.
Right.
And it's not going to be fair just to be clear it's not in the town we live in.
Yeah.
But you know it's one of those things where it's like oh you pride yourself on being generous.
But when someone comes and asks like when someone comes and supports and presents a mission
opportunity and you're like here's four bucks.
Yeah.
Well there is also this this conception of what you think you are versus what you actually
are.
Yeah.
OK.
So it was 2013 around that area and all the people in the church made this comment they
always comment that when people come in they're like oh we are a church that loves people.
Right.
And I was like OK I understand that but you've got a lot of like inside perspective on that
right.
Like a lot of inside like people talking about like with that perspective I was like when
people come from the outside is that actually what they feel.
Yeah.
Like if you ever actually done a survey ask people like hey like when they're first coming
in like hey what what drew you.
What what did you notice about our church.
They started asking that question and they were not very happy with the results.
No I remember one of them was like you guys are really particular about where you sit.
Mm hmm.
I was like like man that hurt you know.
And that's not by the way this is not to down on that particular church because this is
a problem that we as individuals have.
Like we're like oh yeah I love people.
OK but how does that manifest in who you are.
You know you say you say oh I put my my faith in the foundation and Jesus Christ and it's
from where I live and I don't I make plans but it's because of who Jesus is in me.
OK but does that actually manifest in the way that you live.
Yeah.
Are you built on a foundation.
Are you actually bringing love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and goodness
and faithfulness and gentleness and self-control into the world.
It isn't manifesting in like actually telling people the story.
I mean there are there are measurable outcomes to whether or not Jesus is moving in your
life.
Now I think quantitatively I want to explain I don't what I'm not saying is numbers but
there is measurable outcomes.
Yeah.
Is the spirit of God moving in your life.
Yeah.
Am I filled with love.
Or when that person cut me off.
We have we have construction and then and it's not great.
And one of the things that I noticed today is people really mad at each other all around
the road construction.
People walk in the people flagging people driving and I was like you throw a little
bit of inconvenience in and like you kind of get the perspective on people like how
they actually feel.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
And it the invitation I think from James is like hey things are going to suck sometimes
but this is an opportunity for you to do something great for God to do something great and things
will get set right.
And you have this invitation to feed into like the kingdom of God and actually bring
about righteousness.
So the book of James is actually a really encouraging book and we found it encouraging
us believers to encourage encouraging challenging all that right.
But put it in the context of when I was written.
It is written in the persecution of Christians who are spread across the nations right.
And the tribes are actually experiencing different types of persecution around the world.
Right.
You have some in Rome who are experiencing being burnt alive.
You have other ones who are experiencing insufficient crucifixion.
You have others in Asia Minor who are experiencing totally different persecution so on and so
forth.
And so James is written in this context of turmoil of strife of hurt pain of feeling
like you have to hide.
And James is encouraging them to do what you can in the little ways to be welcoming to
the outsider right to lean to lean on the Lord trust and the abjoy.
You welcome me to the outsider and then you get to where we're talking today towards like
be generous with what you have be patient be kind and you get to the end of James 5
where it talks about restoring restoring a brother or sister.
Right.
And there's a couple of things that are really key in there.
It talks about being gentle in that right.
I mean how many times have have you seen a Christian brother or sister go to the table
with another brother or sister and be like oh I need to correct something in their life
and then they are completely dicks about it.
Oh probably more times than I've seen gentle right like significantly more that like people
have you know the 80 20 rule where they say you got to do 80 percent of your work in the
first year.
It's 80 20 but more often.
Yeah it's the negative right.
Yeah yeah yeah.
And so so be gentle in your approach.
Right.
It's more valuable to have them over for dinner enjoy fellowship and have some have some heartfelt
conversations than as a sit them down and be like we have to address this issue in your
life.
Yeah.
And there's there's time for both.
Don't get me wrong.
Yeah.
And I keep coming back to I always come back to that wise word from our friend pastor Sarah
where she says if you're going to correct any connection specifically she says that
you can't correct without connection.
A lot of times we were wanting to speculate and speak into people's lives with absolutely
no connection.
Like you need to actually be invited in to speak in you know and I understand yes there
is like a general statement you can make as like a human being but that's not usually
where most of us go.
You know we never actually spend enough time around people that don't look like us to be
invited in to have a real conversation.
Yeah right.
Speaking of your your last part I want to just read this because I think this is really
that whole section on on restoration.
Is anyone among you in trouble.
Let them pray.
Is anyone happy.
Let them sing songs of praise.
Is anyone among you sick.
Let them call elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the
name of the Lord and the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well the Lord
will raise them up if they have sinned they will be forgiven.
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be
healed.
The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
Elijah was a human being even as we are.
He prayed earnestly that it would not rain and it did not rain on the land for three
and a half years.
Again he prayed in the heavens gave rain and the earth produced its crops.
Brothers and sisters if any one of you should wander from truth and someone should bring
that person back.
Remember this whoever turns a sinner from the error of their ways will save them from
death and cover over in a multitude of sense.
And so like it's not that you shouldn't ever go after people.
I think you absolutely always go after people.
But you you need to have this relationship that is capable of actually coming in and
correcting right.
And and there's there's twofold to that one we have to build relationships with people
outside our circle outside of our circle and then to we also need to let people have close
enough relationship with us.
Then when we're out they can come in and correct us too.
Yeah.
Because I think there is a tendency to so.
OK actually this is this is a story that you may be familiar with like this this idea.
Sometimes people come to a church a church that you attend and they want to understand
like the church is theological stances and they start having a conversation they ask
you a bunch of questions.
And I was like and they even definitely tell when you're having this conversation you're
being theologically weighed and measured according to their theology.
Right.
And you're kind of being sifted.
And there is like this and it feels very strange.
It feels very impersonal because it's not part of a and it's not part of a growing relationship.
It's just like an immediate right off the bat.
Yeah.
And because of that like in my life I have definitely felt guarded when that kind of
thing comes up.
Right.
Because in the past what that has been used for is people go to find something and then
they use that to attack me.
Right.
Which doesn't feel good.
But at the same time I have to be vulnerable enough and open enough so that people who
do have my best at heart are able to actually speak in which is difficult.
Yeah.
Being vulnerable is difficult.
Telling the truth about yourself is difficult especially when you've been burned especially
when you've been burned.
Speaking of fire.
Yeah.
Especially when you've been burned.
Yeah.
So like vulnerability becomes harder after you've been shot down.
Right.
And like for lack of a better term but like inappropriately shot down.
I don't mean that in a crass way.
I mean that more in like someone overstepping bounds.
Right.
So like when you experience that and then you have to come back from that it makes it
harder.
So there's a comfort zone analogy where you have like a comfort zone every challenge zone
and then you have your fear zone your panic zone.
Right.
Like in growth what you want to do is you want to get people out of the comfort zone
into the challenge zone and that slowly grows your comfort zone over time.
Right.
But when you push people into the fear zone that shrinks your comfort zone.
Correct.
Right.
And so you have this situation when you are correcting people if you overstep and you
push them into that panic zone they're going to shut down even more.
And then to get them to open up again is next to impossible.
Yeah.
And the interesting thing is a lot of times when you can tell me what you've seen but
a lot of times where I see people if they push them too far a little bit too far into
panic zone and somebody retreats then they're like oh I got to push harder.
Which then causes people to retreat even further.
Right.
And I it's it's a it's a delicate walk like most things in faith.
I struggle a little bit when people say oh it's really easy to just read the Bible and
do what it says.
I was like OK.
Yes.
On a very fundamental level yes.
But you have to walk it out with grace and humility.
And that piece tends to be the one that is lacking when we're trying to do these things.
You know when you're like oh we got to turn away a brother because we got to cover a multitude
of sins.
This is something I have to do.
OK.
But you have to do it in a way that they'll receive it.
Well and I think you have to take time to understand that in a scriptural basis.
Yeah.
Right.
Because like when it says like casting out a brother.
Right.
It doesn't mean to have nothing to do with them.
It just means you're not holding them to the biblical standard that you live.
Yeah.
Basically you're treating them like an outsider who doesn't follow Jesus.
Yeah.
In which case you're supposed to share a meal with them.
You're supposed to love on them.
You're supposed to do life with them.
Yeah.
Right.
There's there's a balance there.
So like understand context there but also like the I've seen so many people where they've
said well I'm just holding on to what is true what is right.
Right.
But if you're not holding on to love you are neglecting what is true and what is right.
So this idea of language when they say brothers and sisters like and they really talk about
family.
I think we have we have appropriately talked about that as like church is that we exist
as brothers and sisters in Christ.
But I don't think we really understand the depth of what it means when like James calls
somebody his brother like there is a there is a dedication there that is beyond like
family.
There's a dedication that is beyond just familiar relationship and like your family can really
screw some things up and it takes a lot to cut them off.
Now somebody listening might be like my family off really easy.
Right.
But it's pretty hard to actually cut your family off.
You usually find ways to try to restore things.
But there may come a point where eventually you have to be like hey listen for the sake
of my family.
I need to change this relationship.
Right.
I wish in I guess my passion or my goal or maybe my heart in the church is that we would
actually get to the point where we're like family in that when somebody screws up and
hurts our feelings it's a lot harder for us to walk away.
It's a lot harder for us to give up on somebody.
You know I mean now I want to specify because I think good boundaries and all those things
are really important.
I'm not talking about like letting people beat you up or rip you apart any of those
type of things.
I'm talking about being willing to stick with people and thick and thin because you know
that they're your brother.
You know that they're your sister and you know that that you're going to be able to
figure it out.
You think about something.
I agree.
Yeah.
Also like also there are situations where you do just need to cut ties.
Correct.
Right.
Like we don't want to neglect that.
Like I agree.
Like like I remember having to pull some people like help pull some people out of some situations
that were really rough where they needed to be out.
100 percent.
Right.
There are there are times like that too.
And and I think the thing with family and boundaries is really a tough conversation
for people because a lot of times what we do is we say these are my boundaries respected
but in doing so we're crossing the boundaries that other people in your family have set.
Sure.
So there are so like there are compromising values and and there are times where you don't
compromise the boundaries too.
But like thinking of my own family for example like I have a large family I got eight siblings
and there are we all live different different lifestyles right.
Spread across all over the US now.
And there when I spend some time with some family members like they have boundaries are
very important to them that are very hard for me.
Right.
But we have to come to some sort of compromise so that so that like they can feel like they're
heard and that that I can also feel like I'm heard.
Right.
Because sometimes the boundaries you can come in and be like this is my boundary don't cross
this line.
And if you do like come on man like you know better.
Yeah.
It's like that's actually manipulation.
Yeah.
And oh I agree with you.
My my point had more to do with this perspective that we've kind of adopted in the American
Church where hey if you just disagree with me and we're just done with each other man
you know like we have we have more of a connection with the guy in the checkout line at Safeway
than we do with a person who proclaims the fall of Jesus.
And that's that's more what I meant on that like when you you don't give up on family
quickly.
Yeah.
And that's I think yeah I think that kind of need to hold both of those.
Yeah.
I think that comes down to letting the little things slide and right.
Just letting little things slide and stick into the main things.
Right.
Because if I if I tell my friend Brian Qualls let's keep the main thing the main thing.
Yeah.
If I if I held every little thing that my siblings have done against me or annoyed like
we would not talk at all.
Right.
It's true.
But if I call if I call them they answer or they call back.
Right.
Yeah.
Because like our bond is stronger than what annoys us.
Right.
Our bond is stronger than what makes us want to punch each other.
Yeah.
Right.
And like you have siblings like there's days where you're just like what are you thinking.
My brother actually came back into town today and went to my rotary and I immediately threw
him under the bus.
And so speaking of right.
If they held everything against me then that would be you know we would just never.
Yeah.
We would never be able to do life.
Mm hmm.
Right.
And so and there are things that are more important than our disagree.
Right.
And we have to be willing to set those things aside.
And that's something I struggle with.
Right.
Because because especially when it comes to civil sibling rivalry it's you want to be
right.
And you're thinking well I know I am right.
No I was actually agreeing with you.
I was like I was like it's really frustrating because you're like do I want to be right
or do I actually want to build a relationship that honors God.
Mm hmm.
And you can do both.
And you also need to be OK with people just disagreeing with you too.
Mm hmm.
You know.
Yeah.
I mean I think about this part where James says confessing your sins to one another and
praying for each other like have you been part of a fellowship where like you like Pete
that was part of a regular part of your fellowship.
Yeah.
Like confessing and praying.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
I mean with all that of course like you always want to be really careful.
You need to be in a place where you know people are going to honor and respect you.
Yeah.
Right.
But I'd love to hear about it.
I think the struggle we have with this verse is we often get set and this is how this should
be done.
Mm hmm.
Like here's a specific formula formula for confessing and praying for each other.
Right.
So I've seen churches be like what we do we do corporate confession and I'm like well
that can be intimidating to a lot of people.
Right.
Go up in front of a couple hundred people and confess your sins like that can be intimidating.
I've also seen churches who have taken that model and been like we're doing that in a
small group setting.
Mm hmm.
Right.
So they have a few methods background and one of their big things is what they call
soul care groups.
I think they've changed the name of it now.
Right.
But like one of the big questions they ask is how is it with your soul?
And now that comes back that traces all the way back to John Wesley in the 1700s in England
when he did these small groups.
That was one of the questions that they asked.
How is it with your soul?
Mm hmm.
And then you were and then the idea was that you're being honest about it.
Yeah.
That you are being upfront and being like I am struggling here.
Here is where my downfall.
Here's where I've fallen short.
Here is my temptations.
Here's where I need help.
Right.
And a lot of that is just actually having a real life relationship with something.
You know it is interesting that one of the most revolutionary things that we could do
in modern culture is actually to have real relationships with people around us.
One of the things is going to put Jesus on display in more ways than like you can like
us people.
You mean think about social media and you think about like telecommunications and like
people they're like oh you can connect with people you've never connected with and all
these different things.
But nobody it's everybody's more isolated than ever.
Even post covid.
Right.
Real relationship is rare.
And when it becomes a hallmark of the church I mean that's attractive.
Yeah.
I mean that's the kingdom on display.
And I think I think confessing can take can look a number of different ways.
Right.
Like let's be real like you you live in ideally you live a confessing relationship within
the within the body of Christ in the context of your marriage.
Right.
Like have you ever had to apologize to your wife.
Sure.
I am a perfect husband.
Do I need to call her right now.
Listen there is not a single person watching this that thinks that that's true.
It's like yeah do I need to call her right now and be like hey has your husband ever
done wrong.
And I know for a fact she'd be like yes she's like without excuse like you mean in the last
five minutes.
No.
Exactly.
Right.
Like I've had to live a confessing life with my wife where it's where it's been like hey
I'm sorry I blew off the handle there.
I got frustrated there when I should get frustrated.
I mean I have that with my kids.
I say you know you'll raise your voice and I say hey listen I raised my voice and I was
unhappy and I'm really sorry that I scared you.
Will you forgive me.
Yeah.
Now we need to talk about even though I handled it poorly we still need to address what happened.
Yeah.
You know so my one of my my second job this this week has been a little bit slower and
my kids been in a day camp and it has been like I have so much time to get stuff done
that I've got like caught up on stuff which has been amazing.
Right.
Yeah.
And then she comes home and it's like my productivity plummets like plummets because because you
shift gears from like I'm going to get this done to I'm going to teach you how to do this.
Oh you're curious what I'm doing.
Like yeah I've been taking specific times during my work week to work on a designation
that I need for work.
And one of the people I was talking to who's also working on it they're like oh are you
just studying at home.
I'm like nope.
If I tried to study at home I would get 0 percent done because I would get distracted
by my kids and they're like to be fair they're five and three.
That's what they're supposed to do.
But I would never get anything done.
Yeah.
And so what I want to do is I want to get all that done so then I can go and do life
with them when we get home.
Yeah.
So coming back to James really quick again just coming this this idea it's it closes
with this idea of like loving each other well praying for each other relationship like this
foundation and God yes all these different things don't get caught up in what you can
do for yourself.
Now as you live together live together.
Yeah.
Live for each other and one of you starts to go go away go get him bring him back.
Don't let him fall in a pit.
You know and build authentic relationships so that love correction everything comes out
of that.
Yeah.
Right.
It's not always going to be correction but sometimes it will.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
All right.
I think it's probably good for this one.
The next episode we're just going to recap James and just take this idea of like and
we might just kind of also talk about like epistles in general about why it's really
important to understand who they're written to and why why you maybe don't need you shouldn't
read them in an echo chamber.
You need to read them in context because there's a lot of things that could be misappropriated.
Yep.
Yeah.
Till next time.
Bye.
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