1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 Season two of Love in Context podcast welcomes you. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:10,000 Get ready for engaging unscripted conversations with your host, Ben and Spencer. 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:16,000 Our mission remains unchanged to explore the Bible through the powerful lens of love. 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:25,000 In this new season, we'll embark on a journey together, unearthing fresh insights and gaining deeper understanding of how we can love God and live out our faith in practical ways. 5 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:34,000 So let's dive into this season of Love in Context, where love in the context of the Bible intersect to transform our lives. 6 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:41,000 Welcome to the Love in Context podcast. I try to say it a little different every time for Ben, and I don't know if he appreciates that or not. 7 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:48,000 It's kind of like, you know how like when somebody texts you a joke and you breathe slightly more air out of your nose than normal? 8 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:54,000 It's like that. I don't chortle with the light, but I do breathe slightly more air out of my nose. That's how I appreciate it. 9 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,000 I think my next play is just to like leave out words. Yeah. 10 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:08,000 So I'll be like, welcome to the Love in Context podcast. Context podcast. That is the classes list podcast. 11 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:13,000 So we are moving on to talking about eye care. Yes. 12 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,000 Fun thing, we're joined by your wife today. We are. 13 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:23,000 She can introduce herself. I do. I'm married to the beard. Thank you. Married to the beard. 14 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:33,000 Do you have the beard when you first got married? No, this is new, but I love it. Like Alaska new? No, Alaska. Kid new. 15 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:39,000 I've only known him with a beard. Yeah. She does not like it when it's gone. 16 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:44,000 Well, a lot of people don't know, but your name is Lindsay. Yes, that is my name. I have a name. 17 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:51,000 We should probably let them know because, you know, for our Belgian listener, they're never going to know. I got hiccups. 18 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:57,000 All my fans need to know. All your fans. So thankfully you came here to come and talk with us today. 19 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:03,000 We're going to be talking about the spiritual gift of tongues. We're actually continuing on in our spiritual gifts series. 20 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:11,000 So just kind of giving a recap of where we've been, because we had a couple of weeks where everybody in the world got sick and then it was impossible to schedule anybody. 21 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:19,000 In fact, Pastor Sarah, who's going to be on next week, we had something scheduled with her and none of us showed up to that meeting. We all forgot. We all forgot. 22 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:26,000 It was great. She texted and I'm like, yeah, I'll be right there. So, but luckily none of us. 23 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Ben ran up to the church to see if I was there. That I wasn't there. That Ben's like, good news. We all forgot. 24 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:42,000 I will say we don't want to lie to our podcast listeners. I did not run up here. I definitely. I took my car up here. I am capable of running. 25 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:51,000 I just something's chasing you like a dinosaur or you're running to keep your kid from doing something that's true. That's fair. I have. I've done both of those things from a dinosaur. 26 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:56,000 I have. I have been. I have been protecting my children for dinosaurs for like the last five years. 27 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:02,000 Well, no tax about Alaska. We still have dinosaurs. Yeah. Yeah. 28 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,000 So we're talking about the gift of tongues and clearly we're going to get very far. 29 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:14,000 But so the way we preface this idea of spiritual gifts is the first we talked about is if you're going to operate in the spiritual gifts, you have to have this idea of loving God and loving others. 30 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:25,000 Correct. Like this has to be settled. You cannot what you can, but it's not going to bear the fruit of the spirit when you exercise the gift, when loving God and loving other people is not first and foremost correct. 31 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,000 And then we had this conversation about what does it mean to actually hear the voice of God? 32 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:37,000 Because if you're going to go in relationship with God, you got to be able to hear his voice and to yes, both read the word and talk to the word that is Christ. 33 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:50,000 And then we talked about how believers are called to exhibit this fruit, this fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patient kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. 34 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:58,000 This is like the bare minimum. If you're going to be walking in the spirit, you should be living a life that is reflective of what the spirit brings in you. 35 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:05,000 And if you're not loving God, loving other people, you're not listening to God and you're not bearing the fruit of the spirit, you probably shouldn't be engaging in the gifts. 36 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:10,000 You need to get those things right first. And then we had Les on and we talked about prophecy. 37 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:16,000 And then we took a two week break. And here we are. We're talking about a non-controversial topic in the church today. 38 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,000 Who would ever get up in the room about that? 39 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,000 Nobody ever gets. 40 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:24,000 You know, just, you know, we probably have just as much controversy as when we talked about women in ministry. 41 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,000 So this is a proof that your phones listen to you. 42 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:33,000 Yeah. So we were sitting around the fire the other night and we kind of talked a little bit about this. 43 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,000 And then I was like, I'm going to scroll Instagram for a little bit. 44 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,000 And then it was like four reels in a row about speaking in tongues. 45 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,000 And I was like, aha, aha, you're not very sneaky there. 46 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,000 Instagram, we're on to you. Yeah. 47 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,000 We're on to you, Metta. 48 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,000 Yeah. Yeah. 49 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:52,000 But there was one reel that was actually really good that it was this pastor he was talking about. 50 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,000 We want to be careful about saying speaking in tongues is the only evidence of the spirit. 51 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:57,000 Correct. Right. Yeah. 52 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:03,000 He was saying the he's like evidence of the spirit actually comes in the form of the fruits of the spirit or fruit of the spirit. 53 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:11,000 Right. In many ways. So love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control and and tongues can be great and it can be a part of that. 54 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,000 But we want to be careful saying that that's the only evidence that you are living in the spirit. 55 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,000 Yeah. I think there's that there's a danger when you when you say it is the evidence. 56 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,000 Yeah. Right. 57 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,000 And that is the evidence you run into this danger of like why I speak in tongues. 58 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,000 Therefore. Right. 59 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:35,000 And I don't necessarily think that's a healthy posture to have just like you shouldn't have this posture as a pastor like I priest to the church. 60 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Therefore. Or I am a prayer warrior. 61 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:46,000 Therefore. My favorite is when you get like an elder of a church who's like, well, I am one of the elders of the church and they like put themselves high and mighty. 62 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:53,000 And I was like, you know, almost every time that's mentioned in scripture, it's mentioned next to humility. 63 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:58,000 Or there's there's like just to take it away from like the spirit, the the overspirit like spiritual. 64 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,000 But I've actually legitimately heard this in the church. 65 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:06,000 I give more to the church than anyone. 66 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,000 OK. Like good for you. 67 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,000 Good. That is good. 68 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,000 I'm so happy that you did that. 69 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,000 You guys are going to quickly learn that that my wife's blunt. 70 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,000 Yeah, I got to be to keep up with you. 71 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,000 The man it is. 72 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:30,000 But this this mentality and so and then the flip side of it is because we have people who listen that are both Pentecostal and non-Pentecostal. 73 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,000 And so we're going to have some people who are really uncomfortable with tongues. 74 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:41,000 And based on some of the things that they've seen, they probably have a legit reason to be a little uncomfortable with us because it's been definitely abused. 75 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,000 Just like most of the spiritual gifts have been abused. 76 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:52,000 Yeah. And once again, spiritual gifts being anything that God enables you to do through the spirit that can be preaching, singing, prophecy, healing tongues. 77 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,000 Like there's a lot of things that wrap in under that. 78 00:06:54,000 --> 00:07:00,000 Yeah. So let's take a step back and actually talk about like what is tongues? 79 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:07,000 Because I think it's been kind of narrowly defined, but it's a lot broader than that. 80 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,000 Maybe we think. Yeah. 81 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:15,000 I think probably the first occasion that we actually see of something where they talk about some sort of heavenly language. 82 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,000 Now, there's some there's a lot of things that happen in the Old Testament and I would reference them. 83 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,000 But the easiest example for us to go to is going to be an axe to. 84 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:28,000 Yes. So at the at the culmination of Shavuot, we call it Pentecost. 85 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:34,000 Shavuot being the festival where all the people are gathered in the temple and it's a harvest festival. 86 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,000 Right. Takes place on the same day as Pentecost. So everybody's in the temple celebrating. 87 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,000 They're there in the morning, which is why Peter makes a statement. 88 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,000 He says, no, we're not drunk. It's nine o'clock in the morning. 89 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:55,000 Right. It's early in the morning, which, by the way, this is going to this may throw a wrench in some of your perspectives on the falling of the spirit happening in the upper room. 90 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:01,000 There's a lot of scholarly and biblical conversation that in fact would have happened in the temple, not inside of the upper room. 91 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:07,000 Yeah, because there's no place for three thousand plus people to be at a person's house. 92 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,000 Yeah. Yeah. So this would have happened at the temple. 93 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,000 And and I actually Brad Gray has a great video on that in his Bread of Life series. 94 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,000 Go and check that out of where he talks about the reason. 95 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,000 Now, if you believe it's still the upper room, totally cool. 96 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,000 But we're going to proceed with the idea that it happened at the temple. 97 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:33,000 So they're at the temple and mirroring the story from Exodus, they're on the top of this mountain and there is clouds that come about. 98 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:39,000 There's thunder on the mountain and something like fire descends from the heavens. 99 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:47,000 Now, if you're a Jew here in the story, you're like, this is the Exodus where they got the where they received the law at Sinai, except something else is happening in the fire. 100 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:57,000 Instead of coming down and consuming sacrifices now comes and it rests on people and they start to prophesy and speak and they start praising God. 101 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:05,000 But it's super weird for the people who are there because they come from Crete and from Syria and from modern day Turkey. 102 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,000 And they come from Egypt and they're from all over the place. 103 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:14,000 And they're like, why are they speaking Egyptian? Why are they speaking Turkish? Right. 104 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,000 Why are they speaking Macedonian? I don't know if Macedonian is language, FYI. 105 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:24,000 But like and yet one person is saying something and all of these different people are hearing it. 106 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:36,000 So this is the first demonstrative thing that we see in tongues is that God enables all the listeners to be able to hear in their own individual language the praises that are being uttered. 107 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:47,000 Yeah, like something significant is happening, something gospel revelation power wise. The the power of the Holy Spirit is coming on as people to are then going to go and be witnesses. 108 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:56,000 And God's like, everybody needs to hear this. And the other thing that Jewish people, they might be connecting as a reverse from the Torah, Babel. 109 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:03,000 Oh, yes. Oh, so good. Is is that you will is that Torah, Babel, everyone was given different languages. 110 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:09,000 They scattered and scattered. But then this came and then everybody was able to understand and be unified again. 111 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:14,000 Man, I love that connection. And so that's that's a beautiful idea. Taking it all the way back to Genesis. 112 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:19,000 Yeah. So this is the first occasion that they have with tongues. 113 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:25,000 But that's often not what we talk about today when people are talking about tongues, though I don't know about you, Spencer. 114 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:32,000 I've known a number of people who missionaries overseas and they have told me stories about they're in a location that they can't speak the language. 115 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,000 They start talking and people understand them in their own language. Yeah. Yep. 116 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:43,000 And and, you know, they weren't doing the by the way, this is this is not poking fun at anybody who speaks in tongues is just an example. 117 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:51,000 But they're not doing the Shabbat of us. Right. They're speaking English or or whatever their native language is. 118 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,000 And it's coming out to the people in their native language. And the gospel is moving forward. 119 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:01,000 Well, I had I had a time where in my life in high school, where I was being prophesied over, where a group was being prophesied over. 120 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,000 And there's a couple of people there were Spanish was their main language. 121 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,000 They understood English song, but Spanish was their main language. 122 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:14,000 And then at the end of the time of us being prophesied over the they were like, oh, it's so good to be prophesied over in our own language. 123 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,000 And I was like, oh, I was like, bro, that was English. Yeah. 124 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,000 And they're like, no, it was Spanish. And we're just like, that's amazing. Yeah. Right. 125 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:29,000 Like that someone was prophesying and that we all understood our own in our own language. Right. 126 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:35,000 The the more controversial bit that I think comes up about tongues is when people talk about the heavenly language. Right. 127 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:45,000 They talk about the the language of I'm going to say angelic language because in in First Corinthians, Paul says, you know, if I speak in the tongues of men and angels. 128 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:51,000 Right. Is is a good reference point. Yeah. And this is the the thing that doesn't sound like English. 129 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:56,000 And, you know, I playfully said Shabbat Abba's, but it really depends on the person. 130 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:02,000 Like everybody speaks slightly different, which is is actually kind of one of the identifying marks is that it's actually not the same. 131 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:07,000 It's unique. It's it's something between that person and God. 132 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:14,000 But they they speak in unintelligible words is what I'm going to call them. 133 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:22,000 Now, this is not a not a not a gift that I personally have at least that I know have have participated in. 134 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:27,000 But it is a gift that I've seen other people participate in and you can feel the power of the Holy Spirit moving through them. 135 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:32,000 On the flip side of that, I've had some people do it and it's definitely not the power of the Holy Spirit moving through them. 136 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,000 And I guess there's just maybe sensitivity and knowing God in that situation. 137 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,000 Yeah, I think we need to back up just a little bit. Yeah, please. 138 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,000 Before we fully dive in there. There are then laughs that we went around the fire the other day. 139 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,000 But there are people where I lack of for lack of better word, I say can just conjure it up. 140 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:53,000 Yeah. Right. Who who can just rattle off in tongues. No problem. Right. 141 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:58,000 Then there's other people like myself where I've had times where I've been in deep prayer and I have no idea what I'm saying. 142 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,000 But I know I'm in a sleeping for someone. Yeah. Right. 143 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:10,000 But by the way, that conjuring idea is in people and they do it in English, too, because I've heard that I've heard Brother Deacon get called to pray. 144 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:16,000 And he's and he rises up and his voice goes, oh, magnanimous Lord. 145 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:23,000 You're right. Yeah. I was like and it's like this whole reverent, like persona that they slide into. 146 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,000 You're conjuring then, too. Yeah. Yeah. 147 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:32,000 So so where are there wherever you fall on this with you're like, well, I've known I've had times where I'm praying, but I don't know what I'm saying. 148 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,000 But I know I'm interceding for a friend or what not. Great. 149 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,000 Or if you are someone who can just speak in tongues on demand. Great. 150 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,000 Or if you're someone who's never done it, that's OK, too. 151 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,000 Spirit moves all of it like spirit moves in all of it has a place in a place. 152 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:53,000 Yeah. And there are there are times where it is a there are times where tongues are totally appropriate, like in private prayer life. 153 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,000 Absolutely. Right. In the public sphere, Paul actually puts structure. 154 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:05,000 Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I've had times where tongues have been spoken and there's been interpretations and it's been awesome. 155 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:13,000 Yeah. I've had another time where I was at a youth conference and the main speaker got up and just spoke in tongues for like 20 minutes and all the students. 156 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,000 They're like, what's happening right now? And then he tried to explain to him like, well, that made no sense. 157 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:22,000 Yeah. And it was like so. So there is a structure to it when you are publicly proclaiming. 158 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:27,000 Well, and let's let's talk about that structure because Paul is having a conversation with Corinth. 159 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,000 Now, we've talked about Corinth a couple of times, especially in the women in ministry. 160 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:38,000 But I I recently was talking about Corinth. The best way to explain them in a modern city might be like Las Vegas, but on the coast. 161 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,000 Yeah. Right. That is the core. 162 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:48,000 Yeah. Like, of course, what course was a pretty like crazy city. 163 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:57,000 Yeah. And you know, a lot of people from a lot of different backgrounds with a lot of and then and he had to explain to them because they're like, oh, I have the spirit of prophecy. 164 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:02,000 I have the spirit of tongues. I have the spirit of healing. And he's like, well, hold on. It's the same spirit. Right. 165 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:07,000 Same spirits doing the same thing. You all have the Holy Spirit and you're being gifted differently. 166 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,000 So like you don't need to stand up and be like, well, I have the spirit of tongues, so I must speak. 167 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:19,000 And well, maybe depends on what the spirit is doing. You need to be sensitive to the spirit, the spirit that is moving in all of you. 168 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:27,000 And so he's trying to, you know, because you're dealing with a polytheistic society that is now understanding that God is one. Right. 169 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:39,000 Yeah. And so if you have a bunch of people who think that their gift is the most important thing, not that we would ever run into this. Right. 170 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:45,000 Not that we would ever run into this. You put some structure being like, hey, let's figure out how we do this. 171 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:53,000 And our meanings are chaos. By the way, I like being chaos. I don't know if you saw this Instagram reel where the lady was talking about. 172 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:59,000 She's like, I went to church and did you know that they plan everything? 173 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:05,000 And then like people. Yeah. And then people, people stitch it and they're like, what did you want them to do? 174 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:11,000 It was like, just like show up and be like, all right, who's got a plan? What are we going to do? You know, got the word today. 175 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:19,000 And and like, you know, she talks about like they have greeters that are meant to like welcome you is like, don't be welcoming. 176 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:26,000 And like, you know, just a bunch of, you know, like the music is supposed to connect you to like spiritually with what God is doing. 177 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:32,000 And I'm like, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, can you imagine doing anything without a plan? 178 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:39,000 Like the difference, of course, between having a plan, but also being sensitive to what God is doing in the moment. 179 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:44,000 And then you go into a job interview and they're like, so they're like, so what's your vision for this job? 180 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,000 You're like, I'm just going to wing it. Yeah. They're going to be like, that's great. 181 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,000 There's the door. I imagine when I get there, I'm going to have an idea of what to do. Yeah. Right. In the moment. 182 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,000 Right. I don't want to spoil it with my planning ahead. Right. 183 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,000 And so like there is a place for structure. Yeah. You got to have structure. 184 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,000 And speaking in tongues is is no exception to that. Yeah. 185 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:13,000 And going back to First Corinthians 13, where Paul is talking about I can speak in the language of tongues and of men and angels. 186 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:18,000 But if I don't love the noisy gum, it's a noisy gum. 187 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,000 Shabba da ba da. 188 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:29,000 Backing up to your point about like when you're interceding for people and you're not necessarily thinking about what you're saying, but you're just like, 189 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:34,000 I would say spiritually groaning for what God is doing. Right. 190 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:41,000 Like I've been there. I was like, but I've never consciously like in my mind, like spoken in tongues. 191 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:48,000 And so there's a reason we brought Lindsay on today because now she's going to give a 30. 192 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,000 No, a 35. It's a magic trick. No. 193 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,000 Though I want to conjure it up. Not conjure. I can willingly. I am not editing. 194 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:05,000 I am not editing that out. I'm going to. I'm going to. It's not conjure, but you know what I mean. Carry on. Carry on. 195 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:10,000 To the NID to like have them change it to conjuring up tongues. 196 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:16,000 Somewhere. Please put this up there. OK, so just to specify, we actually don't think you should conjure anything. 197 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:21,000 The Holy Spirit is always present and we're connecting to what the Holy Spirit is doing all the time. Yes. Yes. 198 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:26,000 But from from your experience, because you are God has given you the gift of tongues. 199 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:32,000 What is it? What is it about speaking in tongues specifically that connects you with God? 200 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:38,000 It is I mean, it's a little bit like this was saying to like, or you guys have both experience where you pray. 201 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:43,000 You're praying and sometimes you just don't know what to pray or you're in a situation where you just don't know. 202 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:51,000 And like you're like you just. Your heart cries out your spirit long for this person in this situation or whatever is going on. 203 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:57,000 It's it's words that can come out. So people, I mean, I think we all have the times can say, oh, I probably. 204 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:02,000 I've felt something and I wanted to speak it and not known and speaking tongues. 205 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:08,000 If there because again, it's the personal a lot of times speaking tongues that people do are able to just. 206 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:15,000 Speak in a language that is heavenly and that the angelic language or however you want to phrase it, that is not their native language. 207 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,000 It's not a language you can't like can hear and be like, oh, I learned that in school. Yeah, you know, I learned that. 208 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,000 That's definitely Dutch Indonesian. Exactly. Yeah, you're like, oh, I know that one. 209 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,000 But it's a way that your your spirit can reach out your spirit. 210 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,000 It feels like your spirit is able to say something that you're like, I know I want to say it, but I don't know exactly what it is. 211 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:43,000 Right. So I have now have words that I may not even. Cognitively understand what it is I'm saying, but I know that it's my spirit saying I need to reach out to God for this. 212 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,000 Or I need to praise God for this, but it's also a personal thing. 213 00:19:46,000 --> 00:20:01,000 It's not one that for the most people, most situations, most times is not a language that you're like, I have tongues and all hear me during worship as I tell you the glory of God through words you will never understand because there's not someone here to interpret. 214 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:09,000 It's this very specific. Like if you have if somebody has words to share in tongues, somebody also has to have the gift of interpretation, which is also a gift that you know. 215 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:16,000 And it happens much more. It's much rarer than the natural like I'm speaking because I want to pray and sing to God. 216 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:27,000 One. And I think I think what you're nailing on the head there is that when you're speaking in tongues in your prayer closet or during worship before you for yourself, like where you're connected with God and something where you let's just say you reach the end of yourself. 217 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,000 And like then you start stepping into where God is right. 218 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:34,000 Like you allow him to walk you through those things like you know what's going on in that moment. 219 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:41,000 You do because you know how you're connected with God and God might be communicating with you in pictures or in like feeling or like these different ways. 220 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:53,000 Right. When you're when you just speak that over somebody who is not inside your brain and there is no interpretation, it's chaos because they have no idea what you're doing. 221 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,000 Right. I think there's never there to have over a person or over to a group. 222 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:05,000 Right. Because I've used it in prayer for a person where I was like and then but they're not good because you're like this is what I feel like needs to be prayed. But it's not a group thing. 223 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:15,000 Right. And usually it's behind their base. No. Okay. Yeah. And that's the wrong word. But like it's like it's not for them to hear is more like I'm going to I'm still reaching out to God for this person. 224 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:20,000 Yeah. And I think I'm even on the personal level that works a lot better. But when you have a group of people it doesn't quite work. 225 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:29,000 My turn to pray and worse. Yeah. And so like if I'm sitting there and like there's like 15 people there and somebody just gets up and they rattle something off. 226 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:42,000 Okay. Like what do I do with that. You know it is incidentally really interesting. My brother and I were having this conversation because he was looking into edit tongues and having a conversation about it. 227 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:53,000 And my brother is also fairly Pentecostal not the one who lives here the one who lives in Washington. And just so in case they're listening I am not throwing my oldest brother under the bus. 228 00:21:53,000 --> 00:22:02,000 He is not super Pentecostal. But he was having you know the thing is that the interpretation actually doesn't have to come from somebody else. 229 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:12,000 It can come from you. But there needs to be an interpretation. So if you rattle something off and you don't know what it means unless somebody else is interpreting like you probably shouldn't have done it. 230 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:21,000 Yeah. Like that's what Paul's getting at here. He's like you need to actually be able people need to be able to receive what you're actually giving from God. 231 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:29,000 Cool. Which by the way that is true for most of our spiritual gifts. 232 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:39,000 Most things we say in general should be. Well so this is like because I'm going to take a step out of the spirit like not out of the spiritual but out of the spiritual gifts and I want to talk about preaching the gospel. 233 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:48,000 And people will make a statement they say well preaching the gospel is the most important thing you can do. I said yes but if somebody is starving they can't hear you. 234 00:22:48,000 --> 00:23:03,000 Well we come from Christian camping and like one of the things that we one of the models we had in camping was like if you want them to hear you feed them like like make sure they have a good meal because if they're hungry by the time you're sharing the gospel they're not going to retain it. 235 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:14,000 No. I mean let me rephrase that. Thank you very well. That can still work. Yeah. Yeah. God often works in spite of us. Yes. But but there's a reason why we actually meet the needs of those around us. 236 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:28,000 But so like one of the things they did in their food planning which worked most of the time is they actually just upped what the number like what they thought they needed per person by 25 percent 20 to 25 percent because they're like it might is might mean a little more food waste. 237 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:36,000 But we want to make sure everybody has full bellies. Yeah. So that when they sit down to hear the gospel that they're not distracted by being hungry. Yeah. 238 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:46,000 One and it's when you are when you are paralyzed by pain or thirst or hunger or you're in jail or sick or any of these things like you. 239 00:23:46,000 --> 00:24:01,000 There's a reason why God talks about being rivers in deserts and shade in a in a dry land like there's a reason he talks about us doing these things and in Isaiah he makes a quote he says this quote says a king will reign in righteousness princes will rule the justice. 240 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:12,000 Each man will be like a shelter in a great storm like water in a thirsty land and then the eyes of those that can see will be opened and the ears of those that can hear will be or will hear. 241 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:28,000 Well and when people talk about OK well we just need to preach the gospel it's like well so what do you do with Matthew 25 then where Jesus is separated out the sheep from goats and it's like you didn't go to these places and you didn't feed me you didn't clothe me you didn't 242 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,000 mess with me in prison you didn't take care of me. 243 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:44,000 Now I'm not I think on the flip side of that you can also say if all you ever do is meet people's needs and you never you never bring the gospel and you have this invitation but you never actually open people up to this world where the kingdom of heaven is among us. 244 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,000 Yeah. 245 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,000 Recognize through Jesus's life death burial resurrection. 246 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,000 Then there's a problem with that too. 247 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,000 Yeah. 248 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:55,000 Like they're meant to walk hand in hand our generosity and this invitation walk hand in hand. 249 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000 Right. It is an invitation to a table. 250 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,000 Yeah. 251 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,000 And you're not required to sit there. 252 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,000 But regardless of whether you sit there or not we are going to make sure your needs are met. 253 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:13,000 Right. And so like the same idea when we when we talk about like tongues is it's not about like the prayer language sure it's about you. 254 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:19,000 It's about God connecting to you and you connect into God and actually connecting your spirit in some capacity. 255 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,000 Right. 256 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:27,000 And when you're speaking it out you actually need to make sure that the person who is you're speaking to is capable of receiving what you're giving. 257 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,000 Right. 258 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,000 It was meant to be a message they need to be able to. 259 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,000 Yeah. 260 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,000 Understand and receive. 261 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:44,000 And and I think I think there's a temptation in I'm going to say Pentecostal culture where they're like oh well if you just do this then people will recognize that it's from God. 262 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,000 I'm like. 263 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:53,000 I mean I have a reference point right. And and Paul one of the best missionaries I know I didn't know him actually. 264 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,000 I didn't know Paul. Just going to be honest. 265 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,000 I am very old. 266 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,000 Like dirt is a little bit younger than me. 267 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:13,000 The but Paul in his missionary conversations he would go and he would learn like talk about their local gods and then he would talk about you know these different things that have man of man and then he wants to talk about the God outside. 268 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:22,000 Like so he finds commonality and he quotes their philosophers and like finds a way to connect with them in a way that's going to connect with them. 269 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:38,000 And I think that's really important for us today because if you work with a lot of teenagers if you talk about God Jesus with teenagers like the knowledge of what they know now versus what they mean 20 years ago just as like general knowledge if they've never been to church. 270 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:45,000 20 years ago there's kind of a general understanding like oh yeah God he has sent Jesus something about a cross right. 271 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,000 Right now. Now they're just like what are you talking about. 272 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,000 Yeah. Like we have no idea. God had a son. Yeah. 273 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,000 Like I remember beyond beyond the fact that it's a swear word. 274 00:26:53,000 --> 00:27:02,000 Yeah. I remember doing a teaching series for youth groups I took over and and the whole premise was built around that they had the idea that God had a son. 275 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:10,000 Right. And so I mentioned Jesus God's son one of the kids was like raises his hand and I'm like what I was like what's up and he's like God had a son. 276 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:16,000 All right. We're gonna take everything I had planned. Chuck it out the window for right now. Yeah. 277 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:23,000 Go pick that up later. Yeah. Yeah. And it's you know and I don't want to discount like miraculous moments. Yeah. Right. 278 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:41,000 Because I think God does use the spontaneous and like the but in our day to day lives like if you look actually yes Peter gets up and he speaks to a bunch of people and they all hear him in their own language and they talk to them about Jesus and how there's access to heaven now through the sacrifice of Jesus right. 279 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:48,000 That the heaven has now come to earth right. The spirit has been poured out on all flesh. 3000 respond that day. 280 00:27:48,000 --> 00:28:00,000 But then over the next weeks months of what happens in Jerusalem they start praying together eating together fellow shipping together reaching out to the people around them and the churches grows by leaps and bounds. 281 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:06,000 It says that daily people were added to their number. It wasn't because of miraculous events that were happening. 282 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:16,000 It was because now the miraculous lived inside of people and they went and took the kingdom of God to people in both the way that they took care of their needs and the way that they spoke. 283 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:26,000 So one of the other things that I thought about with tongues that I wonder if is not something that does because we talked about you speak in one language and people here in another. 284 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:43,000 Have you ever taught or preached and you said something are you like you reached the entire sermon someone comes up afterwards and they're like I really liked it when you said and then they say like a two sentence thing and you're like I never said that. 285 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:54,000 Like nowhere in my sermon did I ever bring that up nowhere in my teaching did I bring that up but it connected with something that was going on in their life and they're like yeah guys was speaking to me and I need to do X Y Z right. 286 00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:04,000 Yeah I well over Christmas I had that happen I was preaching at church about the sacrificial lamb and talking about Bethlehem Bethlehem was a place that raised sacrificial and all this stuff. 287 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:25,000 And then the lady came up to me afterwards and I was like I really liked it when he talked about Elijah and I was like I didn't talk about Elijah but like she's like he really gave me but but for her she's like it really gave me words to say to my son who's not a believer and to share some of what I believe with him and all this stuff and like so I was I was there for it. 288 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:40,000 Right. But when she got done I was like I was like racking my brain I was like I didn't say any of that right. And I know I mean I just know so many pastors who have said the same thing is like they they have people come up and they're like yeah I love it when you said this and I didn't say that. 289 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:49,000 And they're like when you applied this I could just hear like my own life and it's like you're just like reading my mail they're like I literally prepared the sermon weeks ago and I don't know who you are. 290 00:29:49,000 --> 00:30:03,000 You know like yeah and it's just I think I think that's one more like evidence of the Holy Spirit and taking the words that we say so when we when we choose to partner with God and we speak words out into the world we speak them with the spirit. 291 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:14,000 So that one of the reasons why being filled with the Holy Spirit is important when you preach and teach and love and do anything is because that action gets translated to what God wants to do in the world. 292 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:22,000 Yeah. Right. But we're still responsible for partnering with him in those things. Right. 293 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:29,000 But yeah so just back and track backtracking to that idea of the Lord just speaking in spite of us. Right. 294 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,000 Because that's kind of what we're talking about a little bit. 295 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:46,000 Sometimes sometimes when we are proclaiming the good news the gospel to people there are the times where people where their lives are just changed from those little interactions. 296 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:56,000 I was having dinner with a friend a while back and he told the story about how he was at camp and the speaker came up to him said hey you're going to do great things and walked away. 297 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:09,000 And he and he was like that was a transformative moment in my life because someone saw me and saw that there was value and that I was actually and that I was actually valued by God was going to great things for God. 298 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:16,000 And the funny thing is actually knew the speaker was so I texted her and I was like hey I just want to share a story with you and she's like that's awesome. 299 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,000 I don't remember that at all. Right. 300 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:26,000 Like like there's those times where the spirit moves in us and we might not know what we're saying or what we're doing or the significance of this idea. 301 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,000 Yeah. Yeah. 302 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:39,000 And I had I had other times where I had another story where I had got a phone call me like hey we need you to come speak at camp and I was like oh OK like when they're like now. 303 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:44,000 I was like I was like what do you mean now they're like like they're like session starts in five minutes. 304 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,000 Perfect. And I was like great. 305 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,000 So I go down there and I'm like I have no idea what I'm going to say. 306 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,000 Right. And then you share and kids were like dude that was awesome. 307 00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:01,000 Thank you for sharing. And then I got done with it and I was like and then I had some of the other staffing like dude that was that was great. 308 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:06,000 Like how did you pull that off in five minutes. I was like I want to be honest with you. I have no idea what I just said. 309 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,000 Yeah. Right. 310 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,000 Like I have no idea what I just said. 311 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,000 Like I sometimes the Lord moves in ways like that too. 312 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:22,000 Yeah. And I think I think specifically with that because one of the things I've gone back and forth is like people are like oh well you need to not prepare. 313 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,000 You just need to be full of the spirit on Sunday and then go out and have a talk. 314 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:35,000 I don't think that's a good day to day idea. I think that what you do is you devote yourself to the scripture you devote yourself to prayer you devote yourself to preparation and then you ask God to breathe on it and follow him. 315 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,000 Yeah. Right. 316 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:42,000 We have a plan of where we're going. But I'm saying God breathe and then I'm sensitive to what God is saying in the moment. 317 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,000 Yeah. Right. 318 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:49,000 I want to talk about some things that are not helpful in the tongues conversation. 319 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,000 It is. Oh yeah. 320 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:58,000 And they're just not helpful when we're trying to find unity with the body of believers. 321 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:06,000 So if you are a person who does not speak in tongues talking about people who are weird that speak in tongues all the time is not helpful. 322 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,000 No. 323 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:15,000 If you are we might be weird. Am I speaking in tongues and the two may not be related. 324 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:24,000 On the flip side of that if you're a person who speaks in tongues and you make a statement that says well you must not have the spirit because you can't speak in tongues. 325 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,000 That is not helpful. 326 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,000 That's not helpful. 327 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:36,000 There's very little there's very little to none for scriptural basis for you to hold either one of those positions. 328 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,000 The Bible is full of much stranger things than people speaking in tongues. 329 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,000 Dead people rising dead people rising again all sorts of stuff. 330 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:52,000 Right. Or how about the body of Elisha falling in a grave and like the people get up and they're like moving around. 331 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:57,000 Right. He falls like his body falls and like yeah I mean it was some crazy stories. 332 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:07,000 Or one of my favorites is when Saul finds out where David is hiding and he sends people after him and they keep coming close to the city and they start prophesying and they forget what they're doing. 333 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:14,000 And then Paul is like I'm going to go get David and he gets close and he starts prophesying and praising God and can't get close to the city either. 334 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:19,000 Like that's one of my favorite stories like this because it's so weird and awesome. 335 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:25,000 Or you know Jesus taking two loaves and or five loaves and two fish and feeding 5000 plus people. 336 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:31,000 Right. Like the Bible has like crazy stories people speaking in a heavenly language not that strange. 337 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:37,000 So harassing people about that or harassing people for not having that both bad. 338 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:43,000 We need to learn how to live together and seek the spirit together and love each other well. 339 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:50,000 Avoiding the topic of tongues is not a good choice. 340 00:34:50,000 --> 00:35:00,000 Dwelling on the topic of tongues also not a great choice because I feel like you get lopsided both ways. 341 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:10,000 I mean I don't know if you guys have been part of churches where like it's one spiritual gift is so heavily emphasized that there's no balance in the in the diet. 342 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:15,000 Yeah. You know I mean I was involved with some some ministers of things where speaking in tongues was huge. 343 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:21,000 It was a big thing where like the it wasn't that that was the only thing but it was like you sought after it. 344 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:29,000 And if there is a benefit to it like speaking in tongues like is a great way to like I'm choosing to speak in tongues to connect to God even though I may not feel it or may not know how to. 345 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:38,000 So the but it was the sometimes it came to the point of being like praying to speak just pray with all your just praying to you get the tongues and you speak it and then you will connect to God more and it will be deeper. 346 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:48,000 It'll be great rather than being like God does speak the spirit moves through us in various ways and the ways and sometimes it's the ways we need it to we get the gifts we need and the gifts God needs us to have. 347 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:57,000 Yeah. Can you imagine if somebody said for preaching there's like just get up and fake it until it's true. 348 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,000 Like I'm like let that sit with you for a minute like that's a crazy thing right. 349 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,000 That's a great way to proclaim some heresy. 350 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:09,000 Right. Get up there and fake it until it's true right until until God moves on you with the real word. 351 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,000 Yeah. Like just fake it like. 352 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,000 But there are a lot of people do that with tongues. 353 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:20,000 They're like just say gibberish until it starts until it starts flowing. 354 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:30,000 Also not not helpful because what you're going to end up getting people to do is chasing a feeling rather than the spirit and like trying to make something happen. 355 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:36,000 We call it conjuring. You're trying to conjure something inside of you rather than being graced with a gift from God. 356 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:44,000 Now that being said if you are a you are passionately seeking the gifts and you're seeking that in your prayer time. 357 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:52,000 I'm there for it like in your closet with you with God or with like trusted friends like in your seeking after God because it's something that you want. 358 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,000 I was like it's OK to look a little foolish. 359 00:36:55,000 --> 00:37:00,000 I was like but don't do this just because you want to speak gibberish until something happens. 360 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:06,000 Like there's a tension that we walk as believers because like you can't ignore the power. 361 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,000 But at the same time the power is built on relationship. 362 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:19,000 Yeah. And and just being completely transparent like most of the conversations I've had with people around speaking in tongues when they're like OK we want to talk about this. 363 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:25,000 I was like great. Do you love Jesus with everything you got like yeah I was like do you love the people around you with the love of Jesus. 364 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,000 Yeah I was like great. No like that's it. I was like yeah. 365 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:37,000 If you're if you're speaking in tongues if you're doing those things great if you're doing those things you're speaking in tongues great for doing those things and not speaking in tongues great. 366 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:44,000 We also like miss the conversation too with gifts of spirit to and speaking tongues is like God intentionally made of all of us unique. 367 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,000 Like we can't all be the same because God is too vast for all of us to be images of him. So we all have to be little glimpses of it. 368 00:37:50,000 --> 00:38:03,000 So it wouldn't make sense for every little glimpse to speaking tongues it would make sense for every little glimpse glimpse to preach or to serve or heal or to whatever the gift is or we all are uniquely made to connect to God and to serve him in different ways. 369 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:15,000 And we can't all we shouldn't all feel bad or seek for what we okay we should seek for all that God wants to use us and be with us and then as in how he wants to stick around be what he designed us to be. 370 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:20,000 We shouldn't seek to be the person we're not just because somebody else like that person is great and I want to do that right. 371 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:26,000 That may not be the way God wired you to be and that is fine. 372 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:33,000 That ding is somebody texting us while we're trying to record how dare them. 373 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,000 Yes. 374 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:41,000 And with that said we need we need those people around us who are different. 375 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,000 Right. 376 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:47,000 We're only around same people like us we're going to very lopsided and narrow view of what the body is and what God is. 377 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:54,000 If I looked at my wife right now and said I am very detail oriented. 378 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,000 They can see it. 379 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,000 They can see you. 380 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,000 So don't lie. 381 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,000 Just don't lie. 382 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,000 They can see. 383 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:11,000 Well one of the things one of the things I can tell you as knowing you for a while is that I'm going to call you on that because I know you well enough to know the details are not your thing. 384 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,000 No. 385 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,000 Yeah they're not. 386 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,000 And so people who are good at details they're great to have in my life. 387 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:25,000 They also annoy the crap out of me because I'm like yeah because there's things with details I'm like I should be able to handle that right. 388 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:34,000 One of the one of the things my wife and I've had the conversation about because part of the way that my brain works and there's a possibility that I have that I'm on the spectrum of some sort. 389 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,000 That's always very possible. 390 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:45,000 But the way my brain works I also have a very low EQ which she has done dutifully and helping me raise my emotional you know. 391 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:55,000 I have a very low EQ which is a very low EQ ability and often like sometimes like somebody will do something I'll be like well stop doing that idiot. 392 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,000 You know and they're like and she's like you can't say it like that. 393 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:02,000 I was like why they're being dumb and she's like because people don't accept it like that. 394 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,000 I was like OK so how should I say it. 395 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,000 She's like do it like this. 396 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,000 And so like I'm learning. 397 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:19,000 My wife is much more emotionally intelligent than I am right and I'm learning and I and the big thing is that I have no qualms about apologizing over and over again for my lack of emotional awareness. 398 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:24,000 It but can you imagine if I only hung out with people who never got offended. 399 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,000 Right. 400 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,000 I probably get offended by them. 401 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,000 Yeah. 402 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:37,000 But like having having people who exercise the guess is a really is a really crucial part of the body and I have I have gotten huge benefit from people who speak in tongues around me. 403 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,000 Right. 404 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,000 That have opened me up to like the movement of the spirit and things that are happening. 405 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,000 Yeah. 406 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:51,000 The one of the one of the other things we want to mention that is not helpful when you say that the gift of tongues is the evidence not helpful. 407 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,000 We talked about that. 408 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,000 It's not helpful. 409 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,000 It can be a evidence. 410 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,000 It can be unevidence. 411 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,000 Yes. 412 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:05,000 And I think that it is a very demonstrative evidence. 413 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:18,000 But it's not the evidence and scripture is pretty clear on that because there is a lot of things that actually go there's a spirit and the spirit does this and he does this and he does this and this but it's one spirit working in all of us to do specific things. 414 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:24,000 Well and one of the things that is almost tied in trees and trades that intrinsically. 415 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,000 The word is intrinsically and I'm not editing that out. 416 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:36,000 One of the things that is almost always tied with the speaking in tongues and scripture is the broadening of understanding. 417 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,000 Right. 418 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:42,000 Like you see that in Acts chapter two where they speak and everyone's able to understand. 419 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,000 Yeah. 420 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,000 Right. 421 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:50,000 You see that in first Corinthians when Paul's providing structure for he's like well don't just get up and do the Shabbat Abba is like how somebody interpreted. 422 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,000 Right. 423 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,000 Right. 424 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:59,000 And so like and then when there is also there's other times in scripture to where a language is spoken and people understand. 425 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,000 Yeah. 426 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,000 What is going on. 427 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:07,000 And so it's it's meant part of it is meant so that you can understand more of who God is. 428 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,000 He has for you. 429 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:14,000 And if you're if we're not living into that piece of it that can be very it can be very destructive. 430 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,000 Yeah. 431 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:30,000 And I know I say like for being the one that does speak in tongues in this group not but I think too there are people speaking tongues and hearing this like I think there is there is times though like where you have to trust God and be like you need if you're speaking out loud there has to be an interpreter. 432 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:43,000 But sometimes I've had been situations where somebody's been like I know I need to speak in tongues they do and you have to wait and trust that that person who hears it is going to also have the strength or the courage to be like this is what it says. 433 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,000 So there is also a learning to grow in the gifts too. 434 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:56,000 But again it's the leaning into knowledge and broadening of understand is like some there may be times where you're like I feel like God wants me to say something and I have no idea what it means because it's not in a language I understand. 435 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,000 And you have to be like I'm trusting that somebody here knows what this is because I'm trusting that this is what I need to do. 436 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:05,000 Well but if that's your always go to then you like might want to be like well maybe we need to reevaluate like. 437 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:25,000 Interesting story about that is that guy that I know he I think he's probably 80 90 at this point but he made he made a comment to me one time because he's talking about spiritual gifts and he comes from a very traditional background so not charismatic at all is not a kind of guy who would necessarily lean into the spiritual gifts in any capacity. 438 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:38,000 But he is at a church and somebody stood up and they spoke in tongues and like he's like leaned over to his wife and he's like I know what they said and she's like well then you better get up and say it. 439 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,000 But he didn't. 440 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,000 Now the flip side of that is is that you may be a person who doesn't speak in tongues and you might be an interpreter. 441 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:52,000 You never know and you're not going up you never and it is your responsibility to stand up and be able to speak into that because you're partnering with what God is doing. 442 00:43:52,000 --> 00:44:07,000 One of the last things I want to I want to just mention is that if you are engaging in the spiritual gifts that is prophecy tongues healing and like other other spiritual gifts of course but these are the big ones we're talking about in the podcast episodes. 443 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:16,000 There should be something different about you after interacting with the spirit of God. 444 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:22,000 One of the things that is very true of the Bible is that every time somebody comes in contact with the spirit of God they're not the same. 445 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:37,000 And so one of my concerns that I have seen in in spiritual gifts is people exercising gifts and I'm putting them in quotation marks and then the next day they look the exact same as they always looked right. 446 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,000 Their life still doesn't demonstrate the fruit of the spirit. 447 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:57,000 When you come in contact with the spirit of God in in a in a powerful way like through tongues through healing through prophecy through all the other gifts even in like teaching and worship and gratitude like all the different places that God can meet you. 448 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,000 Something changes about you because a little piece of heaven touches you. 449 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,000 And maybe I might say that heaven gets inside of you a little bit. 450 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:12,000 And it concerns me when that when somebody is talking about moving the spiritual gifts but their life never actually changes. 451 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:19,000 I just don't think that you're encountering the spirit of God because I've never seen the spirit of God touch somebody and then be it be exactly the same. 452 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:28,000 And last thing I would say is if somebody and if the gifts are exercised tested against scripture tested against the word of God. 453 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:36,000 Right. Because there are people who can unfortunately kind of fake it like you were just talking about. 454 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,000 And so tested against what the word has. 455 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,000 Yeah. Well he's written down. 456 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:47,000 There's a reason why we tell people you need to know the word of God so that when God speaks, you're able to do know what his voice sounds like. 457 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,000 Yeah. 458 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:57,000 Because that's important in Pentecostal non Pentecostal churches alike, because you're going to have pastors who get up and say something and you're they're like this is the word of God and you're like, well it's a word. 459 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:06,000 About the word of God said lots of words said lots of words there, you know, your situations to where the people who are speaking are offended by you doing that. 460 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:15,000 You probably need that. There's some things you probably should look at to you or like there might be reasons why I think the most healthy place you can be is where people are like, I'm telling you this, but you should go look for yourself. 461 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:20,000 You need to study to you need to do your do your own pursuing of God. 462 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:31,000 I was in a conference one time and the speaker, there is a friend of mine recommended the speaker and they're like there. She's awesome. And then she came in and just did a horrible job. 463 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:48,000 It's a bummer. And like but there were people who are like, oh man what she said was good and I was like, it wasn't like, and then we had to have these series of conversations with people afterwards being like, okay, like, like, we see where she's getting this stuff from, but that's actually not what the Bible teaches. 464 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:58,000 Correct. Sometimes people can quote the Bible and not be biblical. Yeah. Yeah. And so we want to be we want to be really we want to test everything against the word of the Lord. 465 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,000 Yeah. And so speaking in tongues is no different. 466 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:09,000 Yeah, I'm not all of the spiritual gifts. They're not going to be absent of conflict because conflict is just a natural part of life like in a marriage. 467 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,000 You guys had conflicts, I'm assuming. 468 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:19,000 Well, just at one point or another he was cleaning the kitchen up and she's like, and this goes here. 469 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:31,000 And I was I was like, I just put it where it makes sense. And she's like, No, you didn't. And I was like, I absolutely did. Now, dear listeners, I'm inclined to agree with Lindsay on this one because I've seen where Spencer puts things. 470 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:44,000 So wherever it fits, like this could go here. It's so spiritual. Spiritual gifts are not absent of conflict. But if there is an absence of love and compassion, I would question whether or not you're operating in the spirit. 471 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:53,000 Yeah, because the fruit of the spirit is going to be love. Sometimes love is uncomfortable because you have to address some really bad things. 472 00:47:53,000 --> 00:48:05,000 Yeah, but it's always valuing the person over the issue. Yes. And if there's never some discomfort or conflict or like there's no growth from it. Correct. There's a lot of theories of like. 473 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:14,000 And I think one of the biggest things with love though that we often can forget to exercise is keep no record wrong. 474 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:24,000 Right. Like it's something I personally have been working on in my life and my marriage can be very easy to be like, well, you did this. You did this. You said yes to this. 475 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:30,000 But like, right. When really it's like, no, like address the issue. Let it go. Move on. Yeah. Right. Right. 476 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:36,000 This is where I should tell you I accidentally broke the handle on the truck. 477 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:45,000 Oh, OK. I just get one. That's fine. I mean, I guess it's better than her purposely breaking it. I was accidental. I mean, the trucks got together. 478 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:52,000 Listen, there's just so you know, like my definition of a reliable car. Four wheels that move is very, very low. 479 00:48:52,000 --> 00:49:00,000 Yeah, I don't even know if it's that high. I mean, it could probably have three wheels in moving. He'd probably be OK. As long as it's balanced. I've driven those. Yeah, I've driven those. 480 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:10,000 So I don't know if this is this is a helpful conversation on tongues. I hope it is. I think the big thing that we want to take away is that it is a legitimate part of what God does in the in the body. 481 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,000 Yeah, it's not for everyone, but it is for everyone. Yes. 482 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:27,000 Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. Next week, we're going to have Pastor Sarah on and we're going to be talking about healing and deliverance, which will be kind of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So until next time. 483 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:36,000 And that's a wrap for today's episode of Love and Context. We hope you enjoy this engaging conversation and gain valuable insights into the powerful message of love within the Bible. 484 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:46,000 We'd love to hear from you and continue the conversation. Connect with us by sending us your questions, thoughts and suggestions to loveandcontext at gmail.com. 485 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:55,000 We greatly appreciate your feedback and ideas for future episodes. Stay connected with us on social media for updates, behind the scenes content and additional resources. 486 00:49:55,000 --> 00:50:05,000 You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube and Facebook at Love and Context. Don't forget to hit that follow button to stay up to date with the latest episodes and join our growing community. 487 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:10,000 Thank you for being part of the Love and Context family. Remember, love is at the heart of it all. 488 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:25,000 Until next time, keep seeking wisdom, embracing love and living out your faith in the context of today's world.