Season two of Love in Context podcast welcomes you. Get ready for engaging unscripted conversations
with your hosts, Ben and Spencer. Our mission remains unchanged to explore the Bible through
the powerful lens of love. In this new season, we'll embark on a journey together, unearthing
fresh insights and gaining deeper understanding of how we can love God and live out our faith
in practical ways. So let's dive into this season of Love in Context, where love in the
context of the Bible intersect to transform our lives. Podcasting podcast is what we do.
Yep. Yep. Every week, except sometimes when you try to do that, things don't go according
to plan. Nope. Like when people are sick or when they're recovering from being sick. So
nobody is scheduled right. Or in the case of when Pastor Sarah and we were all going
to record and we set a time and none of us showed up, we all forgot. We all forgot collectively.
So when that happens, Ben and Spencer find ways to fill the air. And actually, this is
actually fortuitous because you and I were just talking about this very topic around
a fire. We were. So today's episode of Love in Context is a special one off episode. Well,
it's the second one off in a row. We're going to be talking about the kingdom of trolls.
You mean the things that live under bridges? That's exactly what I mean. Yes. That if they
come out in sunlight, they will turn into stone. No, the so if anybody is unaware in
modern vernacular, a troll is somebody who makes comments on things either anonymously
or online or they can do it in like an editorial to like in a newspaper. There's other ways
to do it. But basically their whole thing is that they come and make snide comments,
belittling comments, sarcastic comments, misleading comments. It's called trolling somebody. And
we wanted to talk about how in a lot of ways on social media and through the various forms
of media, we're starting to as Christians become a kingdom of trolls. And just so you
know, we are taking shots today at every denomination. I mean, maybe not the Amish because they're
probably not online trolling people. Right. And you just told them. Yeah. On the plus
side, they probably won't listen to this episode. But we want to we really want to talk about
this. It is it is becoming more and more of an issue. Specifically, like, in the last
couple of weeks, there has been three or four events that have popped up on my on my newsfeed
of of something that happened. And people, you know, immediately wanted to talk about
it. It's been coming up a lot in everything we're looking at. And I wanted to address
something we've actually talked about in our opening episode. And we've talked about a
number of times through our podcast. But I want to address the subject itself. So first
thing you and I have talked about on our podcast, we will not talk negatively about anybody.
Correct. Because we're not interested in chipping away at somebody else's faith before God.
We're just not interested in it. We will bring up like theological ideas that we may or may
not agree with. We will push against. I'm going to say demonstrative things like some
things that you do that might be questionable according to scripture. But we're going to
be very careful not to talk about anybody in particular. And that's going to include
this episode today. So most of you are familiar with this phenomenon. I don't think it's new
to them. Yeah. So you're probably going to have more examples than what we like talk
about today. But we're going to talk about what does the Bible actually say about living
your faith out and and how does being a troll actually violate that? Yes. By the way, I
was looking at the camera when we were setting up today and I am taller than Spencer. I am
not that much taller than Spencer. It's just I think it's my chair might be a little bit
taller and then I think I'm just. I'm lounging. Yeah. You're 100% slouching. So I was. There
we go. Now we pretty much look the same. Yeah. I'm lounged back in my chair using the wall
here. Just enjoying life. Well, it's funny. It's funny that we're doing an episode called
the Kingdom of Trolls. So the room that we normally record in, which is the one you normally
see us in, is locked today and neither one of us have a key and it's almost never locked.
And so we actually are recording in a different area. And I was like, you know, that's funny
because this actual room we're recording and is actually fairly cold. Yeah. Not unlike
underneath a bridge where a troll might be. Yep. So we went to the location of the trolls
to talk about the trolls. Yeah. I think there's a couple couple things just to get on the
table right away is one, if you do troll somebody, congratulations, you just increased their
viewership online. Right. In fact, we've been the lucky recipients of that. We have been
recipients of that a few times. So if you're like, oh, well, this needs to be addressed
and I need to call this person out, you actually are increasing their viewership. Yeah. When
you do that, for one thing. The second thing is if you look at it, if you're looking at
the idea of correction biblically, posting a comment online anonymously saying someone's
a heretic is not necessarily the way to go about it. I would say it's definitely not
the way to go about it. Yeah. So it definitely violates the, the idea of Matthew's correction,
right? That Jesus gives us in Matthew about how to, how to correct and restore. Right.
So overall, like, let's, let's just talk about the big, the big elephant in the room. In
fact, you're probably going to access this material on social media. Yeah. Right. I have
a love hate relationship with social media in that I love portions of it and other portions
of it just make me, ah, you know, like infuriates me. Like it, it just, it drives me crazy.
The comment threads on most things happens to be the main portion. Um, but social media
is, is a tool. It is neither good nor evil. Um, the news is a tool. It is neither good
nor evil. Um, television is a tool. It is neither good nor evil. When people use it,
they use it for good or they use it for evil. So the reality is, um, all of the things that
happen, all the negativity that happens isn't because of the device itself. It's because
of the reality of people. It's the ugliness of people that is coming out. Yeah. And that
shouldn't be surprising. There's a whole book. I don't know if you guys have read it. It's
called the Bible. It's written about, uh, this human condition. That's pretty broken.
And we were originally made good in the garden, but we were like, Hey, you know what? I think
I can define good and evil better on my own terms. And we've had the last 6,000 plus years
to determine that probably wasn't the case. Right? Yeah. And that when you actually follow
what God teaches, when you actually live into God's law, when you actually follow the way
of Jesus, which is to lay your life on down on behalf of others, to love your neighbor
as yourself, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and
to, uh, in all gentleness work with the people around you. And if they're not willing to
work with you to read them like tax collectors and sinners, which means you still have a
meal with them, which means you still have a meal with them that the world actually gets
put back together. Yeah. That it's actually in our laying our self down that we put things
back together. Right. Or rather I would argue that Jesus puts things back together. Yeah.
Yeah. And the book of Titus has a lot to say about interactions with people on social media.
Yeah. On social media. Well, no Titus was talking about Facebook. He was, he was, he
was a hundred percent talking about Facebook to put this in poor context. So the book of
Titus has a lot to say about interactions with people, especially people you don't disagree
with. And one of the passages I've heard people use to, uh, perform like this corrective teaching
of like, I have to speak this out loud for the world to hear that this is wrong is actually
Titus three 10, where it says, if people are causing divisions among you, give them a first
warning, a second warning. After that have nothing to do with them. That actually came
up in our women in ministry. Um, I did many stairs. Yeah, it did. Uh, the problem with
that is this is that whole, that verse right there is written in the context of do good,
right? Of be loving, do good, right? Reach, reach the people around you, welcome those
into your homes. Right. Uh, the very first chapter of Titus, he talks about how you need
to be welcoming to people into your homes, how you need to be hospitable, loving, caring.
And so when you were looking at this causing divisions among you, um, they have nothing
to do with them. Doesn't actually mean don't ever talk to them again. Right. It just means
that maybe they're not going to be close circle or maybe they're not going to be someone you're
going to be taking advice from. Right. Right. Um, and so we want to put that verse in its
contact. I want to put that one in its context because oftentimes we will take verses like
this ripped them out of context and be like, well, I need to correct this teaching that
this person said. Right. Oh, well, so speaking of that, I'm actually, I'm going to reference
a video and don't Google it because there's no point in this. And, uh, but I saw a video
was about context and, uh, John Devere was talking about the book of Romans and he was
just talking about, uh, understanding how Roman women existed in culture and, um, the
way that the family unit was comprised and all these things. When you're starting to
read the text of Romans, which is, is by the way, the correct way to start interpreting,
uh, scripture and somebody had done what's called a stitch, a stitches where you have
the video and then they're like faces underneath and then they're responding to the video in
real time. Right. And, uh, and one of the things that they had stopped, they said, you
don't need to know the context of the Bible when it's written plainly. And, um, I was
talking to my wife about that and she says, that's just a reminder that everybody is allowed
to have a social media platform, but not everybody should. Um, I hope you understand after being
with us for one and a half seasons and hopefully being a Christian or following different people,
that context is a lot more important. And a lot of times when you think, you know what
it means, you actually don't. Um, that's actually a lot of the problems that we have run into
consistently in the church is people, they're like, Oh, I know what this means. And so then
they go and they enforce it without actually react, react without actually placing it into
the heart of the Bible and what the Bible was actually talking about. Yeah. Right. How
many times did we see that in Torah? Uh, twice, I think. Yeah. Twice, twice. I was like, I
thought you were being serious for a minute. I was like, twice, come on. I was like, we're
going to have to cut and I'm gonna have to be like, come on, Spencer, give me some real
numbers here. But you know, um, all throughout the Torah series, uh, there's a lot of instructions
that were given. And if you don't understand what the other cultures around them were instructing,
Leviticus is going to be a really weird book if you don't know what's going on around them.
Right? Yeah. Exodus is going to be a really weird book, especially like, uh, like, um,
the plagues and all the things that are going on. If you don't understand Egyptian culture.
Yeah. And so context absolutely matters. There are some things that are pretty plain and
the context doesn't change it. It enriches it. Well, and that's the beauty of scripture.
There are things that are plain, easy to see. And then as you get to know the context, you
realize how beautiful it is. So I mean, like, let's pick on Roman culture for a little bit.
Yeah. Um, like it taking the time to understand Roman culture is going to bring a lot of the
imagery that Paul writes to life. Right. Um, like the, like the armor of God. Yeah. And
in fact, uh, by the way, before you get into this, uh, Brad gray walking the text, they
have an IBC, uh, class that they do every year where they have a bunch of people come
to talk a few years ago. They did one on Paul and his Roman world. That is invaluable to
you. Uh, go check it out at walking the text.com. I think you can still order digital classes
of it and it's, it's very good. So continue on the armor. So, but when you actually understand
the context of the Roman soldier, cause that was a per predominant armor. Um, it was a
symbol it stood out, right? Yeah. Um, you didn't, you, if you walked into a town, you
could tell who was a Roman soldier and who was not. Um, so, but when, and armies, when
they saw the Roman soldiers lined up to go to battle, they knew it was going to be a
tough fight. Right. Right. Cause the Rome was just so dominant in its day. So like when
you actually take the time to understand some of, some of just the little contextual pieces,
it brings the writing to life. Well, let's take, let's take one, one piece there. Cause
what, what, once again, one we're responding to is this idea that context doesn't matter
in the John Bevere. This is someone by the way, trolling his video, right? Uh, talking
about how he doesn't know what he's talking about specifically attacking him directly
over something that now I actually don't agree with John Bevere on everything, but John Bevere
has some really good content and he's helped a lot of people. Yeah. So, yeah. So one piece
of the armor of God to pick on, let's just take the shield of faith. Yeah. The shield
of faith. Right. So is the shield for me or is it for the person standing next to me?
It is for both. Yeah. It's for both. And you, I mean, you even look into the context of
how Roman shields were designed. A lot of the shields that the inventory carried had
a curve to them. So the idea was that it was less likely an arrow or spear would stick
through it and more likely it would just bounce off. And specifically when they are opposing
the hordes or a different people that are coming in, the frontline is exposed to have
these shields and the shields are meant to interlock. Yep. And then the people behind
them are actually the ones who are attacking. Right. So that's the, hence why they have
like the spear and those types of things. And the shield was also like to tag onto that.
It was just as much for offense as it was for defense. Correct. If you, I believe this
is correct. I might need to do a little more digging on this, but if you actually were
a Roman soldier and you left your shield, it was punishable by death. Yeah. Well, we'll
want to fact check that. But if that, I mean, that sounds like something the Romans would
do. Yeah. It was from my understanding, like this was something I heard someone say at
the time. I haven't actually dug into it. If anybody facts checks on that, just send
us an email and we'll bring it up. If I'm wrong, I'll apologize. Yeah. But the, from
what he was saying was that like it was considered a neglected duty. Yeah. And if, and which
was punishable by death. Well, and so the, you have this idea is that the, the shield
says that you may extinguish the arrows of the enemy. Okay. Well, in the context of building
a phalanx, uh, like a completely concealable dome, right in Roman warfare, like you actually
build a complete shield around you. So when the volleys of arrows come, like, because
they come in volleys, they don't come as necessarily individual arrows. When the volleys come, you're
actually protecting you and everybody else around you with your shield of faith. It's
built around this idea of community and togetherness. Like is this, is this whole idea. So pulling
that out and understanding that context, then you get to something like the sword of the
spirit. And you actually understand that in a Roman arsenal, the sword that they're talking
about isn't an offensive weapon. It's a defensive weapon. And it's meant to, uh, when things
come through the shield to cut them off, right? It's actually meant for close quarters for
defense, not for offense. Well, that, that changes that idea a little bit because we
often, I think, uh, take this idea of the armor gun. We're like, well, we're going to
go and go to war for Jesus, except what Paul says is you're going to take on the full armor
of God so that you can stand firm, firm. Cause the battle doesn't belong to us. Battle belongs
to God.
And another contextual example, going along with the sword is in Hebrews where Hebrews
412, where, um, where it's talking about how it's like a double edged sword can cut through
joint and marrow, right? The word of God is, um, the context of that though is rest. Like
you read the verses before and it's all about resting in the Lord. Like, you know, we've,
but we've taken that verse and been like, Oh, I'm going to war. And I was like, actually
the context is for you to do some self dissection. Um, rest in the Lord and let the word of God
penetrate your heart, remove the evil and replace it with good. Yeah. Right. Um, it's
not for you. It's, it's not for you to beat down your enemy with. Yeah. So, so coming
back to the troll of that video, right? The trolling of that video, what you have is you
have, um, people who make comments about videos and, uh, stories that get shared that are,
um, meant to discredit, uh, be disreputable, talk bad, any of these different things in
the name of Jesus. And, uh, I was, I was thinking about this the other day, the, um, I don't
believe that the crusading spirit has ever left the church. It's just that they went
from killing people to skewering the reputation and their online presence and in different
ways, but the crusading spirit, which is that you go my way or else I'll destroy you. And
if you don't think like me, I'll destroy you in the name of Jesus. Well, there, there's
an allure to, um, there, so there's a type of Christianity where it's like, everything's
black and white, right? And there's an alert to that because it has clear cut lines. Yeah.
We as humans, we like that. The problem is, is the more you dive into scripture, the more
you realize it's not very black and white. There's a lot of gray areas. Correct. Um,
and there's a lot of learning to exist in that tension is tough is actually the call
of Jesus and like, and the call of like following God, cause he doesn't call you to live on
the coastline or in the mountains. He calls, do you live in the Shafalo right in the middle?
Right. Talking about the geography of Israel, by the way, if anybody was wondering, a guy
calls us people to live in the middle, not don't retreat to the mountains. Don't go live
with the, um, with, uh, with the people who don't follow him at all on the coastline,
but live right in the middle, right in the middle. Yeah. So we, we gotta understand these
things. There, there is a tension to being a follower, but if you, if you're ever completely
resolute in like, uh, like, cause you said there's an allure, like there's allures that
I'm right and you're wrong. And my job is to correct you to beat you into submission
until you fall in line. Right. There is, there is an appeal to that because it's an something
I can accomplish. Yeah. Um, you might say that it's cisterns that I create to quote
from the Psalms as opposed to the living waters that God creates. Yeah. Right. And,
uh, the cisterns aren't near as nice as the ones I create. Um, but this idea where you're,
um, you're going to go and you're going to conquer, conquer the people around you. The
problem is Jesus is repeatedly talking us about the tension. He says, I am sending you
like sheep among wolves. I need you to be wise as serpents and innocent as does to live
your life. You have to lose it. If you want to be first, you have to be last. Those of
you that are the greatest will serve the children are the greatest in the kingdom of God. Right.
Um, there is, you are in this world, but you are not of this world. There, there's a lot
of these statements that show up all throughout scripture. And so I think, I think the tendency
where people see here, Oh, we're going to live in the gray means that you're not holding
to biblical truth. I said, no, it's you're holding deeper to biblical truth. You're willing
to wrestle. We're willing to wrestle. Right. There's, there's part, there's lots of parts
of scripture where you, where it takes a while to dissect and you have to wrestle with it.
Right. Um, I think the problem is, is a lot of times we want to wrestle so we can get
to that right or wrong answer. Correct. And sometimes it's like, sometimes that right
or wrong answer doesn't come. Like there's, there's parts of scripture for me that just
still have a ton of tension. And like, would I love for there to be resolution to it? Absolutely.
But there's not. Yeah, there is a one to your point where like resolution, is it sin to
eat meat or not eat meat, sacrifice titles. It depends. It depends on, on your perspective
and your heart. Like this is this, by the way, if you're listening here and you're
like, you're like, man, that makes it really difficult. I was like, there are some very
clear things that God talks about, you know, by the way, there's, there's 10 of them in
the book of Exodus that he makes very clear, right? He says, you're not going to hurt each
other. You're not going to lie about each other. You're going to be honest with each
other. Um, but more specifically on what not to do, there's much more focus on what to
do. Even in the writings of Paul, where he's very speaking to a Greek minds and he's like,
put off this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and put this on and you won't
gratify. Yeah. Put this on. That's, that's the whole point. We were talking about the
fruit of the spirit, which is what this episode is interrupting, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so
coming back to the trolls, it can be the, what I have experienced from trolls is that
when they do, when they do their thing, is it mostly a self gratifying to them. Um, and
the question, and the question is, was that actually of the Lord? Cause there are, there,
there had been times where I've seen, seen people troll somebody and I've been like,
they actually, the troll made a good point. Like I've seen those two. Right. Um, but the
point is how do we go about this correction when we need to? Um, and there's a couple
things I want to interject on that. So pastor Sarah has said one thing on the podcast that
is just really good where you can't correct without connection. Yeah. Right. Um, a lot
of the, a lot of like the theological reels I see on Instagram, I don't have any personal
connection with those people. Correct. Right. Yeah. Right. So it would be more beneficial
for me to be like, Hey, why don't I take you out to dinner or, or be like, or contact them
and be like, Hey, I had some questions about the content you posted and I would love to
just talk to you more on it, you know, and try to get a better context and understanding
of where they were coming from. Um, the other problem is oftentimes we're seeing like bits
of sermons. Oh, sure. Right now. And so you'll, we'll take a bit of a sermon, rip it out of
the context of the rest of the sermon and be like, Oh, this person's a complete heretic.
Right. Which is like, this is something I see on a pretty frequent basis. Yeah. And
it's like, okay, well maybe, maybe not like, right. There's a whole sermon that was just
preached there. Maybe go listen to that whole sermon. Yeah. You were telling me about your,
your friend was a pastor, uh, that she had a congregate who did not like a particular
teacher and what was her response to, uh, having a conversation about it. Go listen
to 20 of his sermons and then let's talk and then let's talk like generally that's a pretty
good suggestion. Like she was nice. She said it nicer than that. I'm sure. Like we, we
are definitely way meaner than, than, uh, most people. So, uh, maybe, maybe not me.
We mean, yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but like that's, that's like a, that's before you're going
to criticize somebody or you're going to have conversations about them, you should actually
be familiar with who they are. Right. Yeah. Um, and then honestly, then you should probably
just take a pause and maybe learn how to pray for them and not just stand around and be
critical of. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'm reminded of, uh, pastor Clint and pastor Nick from
our church, their, their conversation piece about the way they, they have, um, they deal
with complaints about different things that are going on in the church. And they said
that if somebody comes and they have something that they want to talk about with the church,
they said, that's great. We want you to pray about it for a few weeks. Yeah. And then I
want you to bring three solutions, all of which you're a part of. Right. It's great.
And uh, and then shockingly, the number of complaints is down to, you know, and there,
I mean, there's still issues, right? Well, not only that, but the number of people who
would just step up and be like, Hey, I'm going to take care of this. Yeah. Has gone up to,
right? You're, you're empowering people to actually step in and actually do something
too. Yeah. You know, if they, if they see an issue. So the, the issue that I, when,
um, and I, and I am going to address the accounts that are built around attacking other accounts.
Okay. I would be okay if those all closed down. I would be completely okay. Like generally,
I don't want to talk like bad about any of them, but if your account is literally just
devoted to finding every person else who does something else wrong and that's your content,
it's probably time to pack it up and go home. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and you know, once again,
this is just another guy with a mic stating his opinion on camera. I feel like it's a
biblical one. I feel like I can, I can defend that pretty strongly from a biblical perspective
that if your main goal is just to talk about how everybody else is wrong, you're representing
something and it's not the kingdom of God. It's probably the kingdom of trolls. Yeah.
Well, scripture scripture talks about that too. Um, to work hard, to avoid divisive talk,
right? Ty, I mean, Titus talks about warning people, but there's another spot where, where
it talks about like, Hey, like we don't need to have meaningless quarrels about what not,
right? About, about whether or not you should have Starbucks coffee served at your church.
Correct. Right. Like we don't need the meaningless quarrels about that. Uh, in Acts, the disciples
were fit, uh, were faced with one of those, right? Um, there were some food disputes going
along and going, uh, going about, they're like, Oh, well, the Jews, Jewish believers
are getting more food rations than Gentile believers and like legitimate, legitimate
things. And they were like, okay, let's appoint people to deal with this. And because we need
to not be distracted from preaching the gospel. Correct. And I'm going to give you a quick
correction here. So nobody types to us. Uh, it was Hellenistic Jews versus Orthodox Jews.
Okay. The widows specifically. And, uh, so just, if you ever have followed us Hellenistic
are the people who wouldn't necessarily have been the most devout. Yeah. Right. But they
were, they are of the same nationality. Yeah. Right. Thank you for that. You're welcome.
Um, so, so it's one of those things like, let's keep the main thing, the main thing.
Right. And you sound like a Brian Qualls a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Keep the main thing,
the main thing. And let's, let's also, let's also set aside the meaningless, the meaningless
arguments. Right. So let me, let's talk about the kinds of kinds of content we've seen.
So we've seen the ones where people stitch and they talk about why somebody is wrong
piece by piece. Right. Uh, we have seen, um, that is by the way, not the same as somebody
who, uh, respond to questions. Like somebody asked a question and they just answer it.
That's not the same as that. Um, we have seen the people who just go out of the way and
all they do is attack other people. Um, there's another one that comes up and this was, uh,
we actually, the last episode or episode before where Brian was, pastor Brian was on and we
were talking about the Superbowl commercial, right? Is where there's an event that happens
and there is a, as an uproar and a swell of comments and videos and responses and, uh,
that are just like rapidly distributed out of a specific event. Right. Um, this pastor
was spotted with a $500 sweater, right? Or a $300 pair of sneakers. Okay. Okay. Um, this
type of event or, uh, this church hosted this person who did this thing, right? Uh, there's
a lot of like those types of videos. Um, what I find in most of those is people's responses.
They make a lot of comments and if you actually go back and look at the base content of what
actually happened, it has morphed drastically from its original thing and they've made it
this massive thing. They were like, every Christian needs to be an uproar about this
because apparently the way that we showed Jesus is by yelling. Well, and you've heard
me say this too, but if you're given a platform to proclaim Christ, you will speak heresy
at some point. Guaranteed. Guaranteed. Yeah. Um, there's not many guarantees in life, but
if you have a mic and you're proclaiming Christ, this is a guarantee. Yeah. You will speak
heresy at some point. Yeah. And so, so can we have a little more grace with each other?
Yeah. Right. Like, can we, there was the video on the Superbowl, right? Yeah. Like I, there's
some good intentions there. Right. Um, also, but if you're going to post a video for how
many million people to see, you're opening yourself up for criticism too. Yeah. You're
opening yourself up for criticism, right? Yeah. And then a lot of times there's these,
there's these bigger churches that often get criticized too. And it's like, well, I was
like, I was like, yeah, I was like, but they've also made some, made themselves very public.
Yeah. Right. Like the more public you're going to make yourself, the more criticism you're
going to get. Yeah. I actually even find now with us having more listeners than we've had
in the past, like we, we have more people. Um, I don't want to say take odds with our
opinion, but have questions about it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And, uh, like even to the point
when they're coming up, like where they would come on the podcast, they're like, are we
going to talk about this? And I was like, dude, we're going to try to do whatever we
can to have a civil loving conversation. Yeah. Right. Right. Because our intention with the
podcast is for Christians to have real conversations about how to live out our faith, not for us
to have like, well, this is right. And this is wrong. And just to call to those who are
teaching who are proclaiming as teachers, right? James talks about, says to your brothers and
sisters, not many of you should want to become teachers in the church. Right? Like, like
it's a valuable position, but James is also like, this isn't something that, this is something
that most of you don't want. Right. He's, and then he goes on to say, for we who teach
will be judged more strictly. Yeah. Well, that's that whole double edged sword thing,
right? Self reflection, but it cuts both ways. And then he goes, he goes on again to say,
indeed, we all make many mistakes for if we could control our tongues, we would be perfect.
And if we, and if we could control ourselves and we would be perfect and we'll be able
to control ourselves in every other way. I think there's this, this upside down pyramid
too is like, as you want to grow as a teacher, as a minister, as a follower of Christ, then
your grace has to increase. Yeah. And your patience has to increase and your love has
to increase. Yeah. Right. If you want to grow as a teacher, you need to learn to love better.
You need to be more gracious. You need to learn how to be patient with people as they
learn. Yeah. The best teachers I've ever had, they will not put up with you, like not learning,
but they'll be patient with you as long as you're working at it. Yeah. Right. And they'll
come alongside you. They'll, they'll come up with different like methods and all these
different things. I don't know of anybody who has gotten better at something by being
yelled at or chastised or harassed. There is a time for discipline. Okay. Actually let's
take a step back because I want to actually get into this. I, my, my son is five, your
daughter's five, right? Um, there is, he goes to school, he goes to Sunday school, he goes
to his aunt and uncle's house and all of them have a modicum of authority over him. Right?
They're all teaching him in some capacity, right? When it comes time to discipline or
redirect my child, that is not their job and they do not get to make those calls. That
is my call and that is my wife's call. And usually we make that decision together. Now
if that's how I am as a parent, because I believe that's how you are as a parent too,
right? Like when you're correcting a behavioral thing, unless it's something that you've told
like a teacher, you're like, Hey, if they do this and make sure they do this, right?
If I'm going to go in and I'm actually going to bring discipline in order to correct my
child and raise them in the way that they should go, I am the run who brings discipline,
not you. Right? Now I hear somebody out there, they're like, what if somebody's watching
your kid and blah, blah, blah. Okay. We're not talking about hypotheticals here. Like
generally speaking, I'm the one responsible for making sure my child, children are being
disciplined and being raised correctly. If I am allowing the school to do that and I'm
allowing the Sunday school to do that, or I'm allowing the church to do that, I'm failing
in my responsibility as a parent. It's my job to make sure that when my kids go off
the rails to bring them back. Now, if that is my job as a human parent, whose job is
it to make sure that when Christians go off the rails, they get pulled back?
It's Christ.
Yeah, it's Christ. It's the father's job to do that. And the, I wonder if sometimes
when I watch these things, I often think in the, in the demonstrative things where they,
they tear people apart, the reason they do that is because they're trying to make these
people not Christians.
I, I wouldn't say necessarily that they're wanting them to not be Christian. I would
say that they're wanting them to think like they do. Yeah. And cause I, I want to, I think
it's so situational because I mean, there are some people who correct, who are really
harsh. Correct. And there are some people who provide quote unquote correction who aren't,
who aren't as harsh and talk about how they want to see redemptive work happen in this
one's life and so on and so forth. Right. Right. So, so like, I think there's a bit
more of an individualized context that comes into play. Yeah. But with that said, and I
agree with that. I agree with that. I was my, my, my thought was specifically centering
on this idea of like, do we trust the Holy spirit to do his work or not? Oh yeah. Yeah.
100%. And what my, my personal experience. Okay. So this is my personal experience understanding
that I'm only 37 and I have my limited life that I've lived in the churches that I've
lived in. Right. Is that most of us don't trust the Holy spirit to do his work. We try
to do it for him rather than partnering with him. And can we just say, can we just talk
about how freeing it is just to trust the spirit to do his work freeing and terrifying?
Right. It's like, when we take on the responsibility of the Holy spirit, like one, that's just
a bad idea. Just don't do that. Okay. And if you're like, well, why shouldn't I do that?
That could be in two more hours of conversation. Just don't do it. And then that's one thing
is like, but when we, when we take that on, it's really, what we're doing is we're saying,
okay, my opinion is better than God's. Right. My way of thinking is better than God's. And
then, and then we really start to go down a slippery slope. And then we start to say,
well, if we want to look like God, we have to look like this, which it looks like exactly
how my life is, which I'm going to be real when people do that in my life or try to do
that with my wife and I were like, we're like, Hey, we're having none of it. Yeah. We will
still love to have you over for dinner. Love to have you come at summertime. It's getting
spring summertime. Love to have you over for fires and hot dogs and mangoes. Uh huh. All
the good stuff and stuff like that. But I was like, but we're going to be very clear
and say, you actually don't have authority speaking to our lives. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
It is one of the things that is very, um, I want to, I want to, cause I want to get
away from the negativity of trolling and actually talk about some proactive things you could
do when you hear a story about something going on, learn actually what happened, like really
what happened. And if you're tempted to make a video, stop and wait for a while before
you make a video. Yeah. Um, if somebody needs you to comment on something right away, it's
probably not something you should be commenting on. Right. Yeah. Um, unless it's specifically
something under your authority, right? Like you're the pastor of a church and something
happened at your church, then you should respond right away. Yeah. And there's also a level
of if you think you're having an impact by doing this, you'll probably have a greater
impact by building a few great relationships with people who need Jesus in your community.
Yeah. Right. And bringing Jesus to them because as much as social media and stuff is great,
it does not, even if you're doing face to face video calls with people, it does not
replace that personal face to face interaction. And, uh, and it can be very difficult because
on the flip side of this, we just, we've been talking through the gifts of the spirit and
we talked about, and you know, if you love God and love other people, if you learn to
hear the voice of God, if you exhibit the, um, the fruit of the spirit, right? Well,
sometimes you're actually going to get prophetic message for people. Like God's going to use
you to speak into other people's lives. The, the issue that I think is happening with,
with a troll dumb is that the first three things aren't there. Right. You don't have
love God and love other people in line. Right. You don't have learning to hear the voice
of God clearly through the word of God and through, uh, experientially like time with
God. Right. And you don't clearly exhibit the fruit of the spirit before you speak into
a situation. Um, that is not to say that if you have those in line, you should automatically
speak into a situation. You should see God and see what he wants you to do. And then
with fear and trembling and with all humility, walk it out. Right. Like that is, I think
probably the best piece that I could think of about that. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. I, I think
one of the things I've heard quite regularly when it comes to troll dumb is, um, I love
the word troll dumb by the way, troll them, uh, w w is that, Oh, well God doesn't bless,
doesn't bless sinners. And I'm like, and so I want to push back on that. Now hear me out
on this. God does not like sin. Correct. Right. Hear me out on that. Okay. But the whole basis
of scripture is built so that we sinners can be blessed. Right. Uh, we see that, we see
that when God calls Abram, he's like, I am going to bless you, make you into a great
nation. Right. You see that. And then you see we're grafted into this story of blessing
through the work of Jesus, Jesus on the cross. So that we can be a blessing to all the nations.
So, so to say, so when someone's like, well, God doesn't bless, doesn't bless sinners.
It's like actually the whole basis of scripture is built around God blessing sinners. Yeah.
And I think, I think you may want to just, God doesn't bless sin. No. Right. He absolutely
blesses sinners because that's the gospel that Jesus Christ came to die for us when
we didn't deserve it. Yeah. But we often, we often, we often commingle sin and sinner.
Yeah. Right. Like we, let's take a little bit of time, separate those out. Like, right.
Um, like there's sin and if we are perpetuated living in sin, right. Like willingly choosing
to do sinful acts. That's one thing. Right. But then, but then we, by nature, by default
are sinners and it's through the work of Christ that we're redeemed. So God doesn't bless
sin, but he is here to bless sinners. Right. In fact, our whole existence is actually built
around reaching those that are not yet a part of us. Right. Yeah. Like, um, the, I was just
recently, I was, I was just, I just 20 seconds ago was talking about, uh, the gospel is that
Jesus came to die for us when we didn't deserve it. Right. Um, specifically reminder is this
kingdom idea is that Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is at hand and through his life,
death, burial and resurrection, we now have access to it, which by the way is a blessing.
Huge blessing. Huge blessing. And as we carry that kingdom into the world and we bring heaven
to earth, we bring blessing wherever we go. Yeah. And it is, it is for the people that
are not yet a part of us to come and be a part of this kingdom and this, this heaven
that is now accessible. Right. Yep. Yep. So a couple of things that you will, we will
not do. If you, uh, write comments, stitch our videos, have fun. All you're doing is
increasing our viewership. That's fine. Um, yeah, thank you for that. Uh, we're not going
to, we're not going to respond to them. If you have legitimate questions, absolutely
email them in. You can even stitch us with legitimate questions and we'll try to respond.
I say try because we both work full time. Yeah. Um, but, uh, it's better to send us
a question in the Q and a form. I, we, by the way, I've gotten a number of comments
and I love it when people leave comments. It always makes me happy, um, on our videos
and stuff. And, uh, so it's just, it's good to know that you're getting something from
the videos. Um, in everything here is, is this, don't live your life on social media
and don't get sucked into trolldom. Live your life for Jesus and live at peace with those
around you. If it's up to you. Yes. Yeah. Until next time. Next time. And that's a wrap
for today's episode of love and context. We hope you enjoyed this engaging conversation
and gained valuable insights into the powerful message of love within the Bible. We'd love
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