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Season two of Love in Context podcast welcomes you.

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Get ready for engaging unscripted conversations with your host, Ben and Spencer.

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Our mission remains unchanged to explore the Bible through the powerful lens of love.

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In this new season, we'll embark on a journey together, unearthing fresh insights and gaining deeper understanding of how we can love God and live out our faith in practical ways.

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So let's dive into this season of Love in Context, where love in the context of the Bible intersect to transform our lives.

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Welcome back. I'm Spencer. I'm Ben. And we're joined once again by Les Cronk.

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He we didn't scare him off the first time, though, if you are noticing that we look very similar to we did like four weeks ago, that's because we recorded them back to back.

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That's how podcasts work. I shatter the illusion for people sometimes.

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So technically we may have scared you off like that's entirely false. We haven't actually checked after today.

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So we are we are in the middle of our spiritual gifts series and we are going to be talking about prophecy today.

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But before we get into that, Les, first time I realized that we did not actually give you a proper introduction letting people know about you and like your story.

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So can you take a couple of minutes and just kind of let people know who Les is?

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Who is Les? Well, I'll make it a brief story.

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But essentially, I'll start I can start with here for almost 30 years, which is the longest I've been in any one place my entire life.

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Prior to that, moved an awful lot. But and since here, been a part of the assembly of God for the most of that time.

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And gone through quite a few changes in the church. But my spiritual growth has been continual. I just learned more about that.

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I being in a Pentecostal church, I wasn't raised in that. I was actually raised in the Episcopal Church.

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And and I will say I've gone back to the Episcopal Church a few times and been really touched.

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There's some awesome people there. And one of my current passions is following some stuff out of the Jesuit teaching.

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So I'm finding that there's some excellent spiritual stuff throughout other denominations that we may not have noticed.

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Yeah, I find that there is a lot of beauty in some of the liturgy. Correct. In other places.

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Now, it's not a liturgy that I would necessarily identify with, but there's a lot of beauty in it and you can learn a lot from it.

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And that's what I found. I discounted a lot of my early years in that church.

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And when I went back to it, it's like, no, this really was good stuff. It was good foundational stuff.

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But I'm more into the movement of the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit operationally.

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And that's why I'm sitting here today. And that's what my passion is.

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Yeah. Speaking of facilitation of the gifts of the Spirit, like so you have actually taught in the past on gifts of the Spirit, correct?

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Correct. I have. Yeah. For a number of years in the AOG, right? Yes. Yeah.

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So this is not a new topic for you. No, it's not. Yeah.

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So we obviously started off the series where we talked about we have to have this foundation of love, God, love of the people.

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We have to be able to hear the voice of God. We have to understand like we need to operate in the fruit of the Spirit.

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Like, what does that actually mean? And now we're actually getting into like actual gifts and we're not going to necessarily cover all of them.

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I thought we would cover the ones that tend to be a little more controversial. Right.

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So this week we're going to be talking about prophecy. Next week, Kyle Quinn is going to join us.

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We're going to be talking about tongues. That's going to be a fun one.

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And then we're going to talk about healing and deliverance.

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The last week, I believe Pastor Sarah is going to join us again. But this week, we're talking about prophecy.

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Yeah. Right. Prophecy is a good one to talk about. It is the most taught and most talked about in the New Testament of all the gifts.

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And possibly the most misunderstood. Very likely. Right.

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So the it's interesting because when you when you say when I say prophecy, I think people's like fantasy literature, like antennas go beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, right?

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Because they're like, oh, the prophecy talking about the future.

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Well, yeah, that is that is a form of prophecy. But generally speaking, prophetic word, that's not actually what it's supposed to be.

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Now, interesting thing enough. So we're going to take take the word prophecy.

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We're actually going to put it in context of the Bible. Love and Context. That's what our podcast is.

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So we're going to do that. So I want to start in the Old Testament, talk about the prophets of the Old Testament.

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So one of the things that I find really interesting is when we interpret the prophets, we forget that they're written by Jewish people,

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which sounds really strange, like most of us understand the prophets written by Jewish people.

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But then we interpret it as Americans. The problem is prophetic literature is a thing in Jewish circles, like prophetic literature, like the way that it's written.

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Now, the interesting thing, I don't know if you actually know this, but from a Jewish perspective, First and Second Samuel, First and Second Kings are prophetic books.

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And not not necessarily all of the ones that we would label as prophets. Do they consider prophetic books?

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The prophets are people that God raises up. He speaks to them because something is happening in the in the nation that the people aren't listening to God.

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Right. Usually they they just stop following Torah.

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You have generations of people like who are who are forgetting who God is. They're they're doing evil in the sight of the Lord.

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They're not actually following Torah. They're not actually involved with the priesthood.

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And so they're finding themselves straying straight down the barrel of like what God says, hey, if you step out, this is what's going to happen.

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And the prophet comes and he says, hey, you've got to fix this or else this is coming.

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Now, people say, well, the prophet is proclaiming what God is bringing. No, your actions are actually proclaiming what God is bringing.

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And the prophet is trying to bring correction and bring hope to you that you can be redeemed.

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And the bigger problem is that Israel tends not to listen.

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And the other thing I think to note about Jewish prophets is is we have a snapshot of their life.

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Like they take Elijah, Elisha as examples, like we have a snapshot of their life.

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But if you want to go, if you want to sit down and take a day and read through everything that's written down in scriptures about those two, you can.

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Yeah. Right. It doesn't actually take super long to do so.

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But they were also alive for a lot longer than that. Yeah.

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So there are portions of their life that we don't have written down.

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Yeah. Large, large portions. And a lot of that could be mundane.

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There could be other portions of prophecy that we don't have written down.

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But what we do have written down is just a snapshot. Right. Right.

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Well, and so speaking of Elijah, Elijah, if you're familiar with his story, he's you find it in Kings.

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And there is a guy role in the nation by the name of Ahab.

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He has a wife named Jezebel. Neither one of them are particularly great people.

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And Elijah shows up and he gives him this word. He talks about the heavens being bound. Right.

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And it's really interesting to me.

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People know they're like, oh, well, Elijah bound the heavens.

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Well, yes, he did. But do you know what Elijah was quoting?

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He's quoting Torah. When he comes and tells Ahab, he says, what you're doing right now, it says in Deuteronomy, if you do this, the heavens will not bring the rain.

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And so he's actually binding Ahab to the word of Torah and saying, reminding him, he's like, what you're doing is actually causing this issue.

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So is Elijah binding the heavens or is Torah binding the heavens or is the recognition that Ahab realizes he continues to walk out of out of God's influence, binding the heavens?

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I don't know. I'm not there. I'm not sure how the cosmic stuff works.

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But Elijah is actually pointing out to Ahab what he's supposed to be following and saying this is the path that you're choosing to be on.

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Now, sometimes we'll get into that story because that's a really interesting story.

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But if you actually go into the prophetic declarations that happen with Elijah and Elisha and all these very, very frequently, they will quote Torah right back to the people.

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They're quoting Torah back to the kings.

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The problem, the reason we don't recognize it is because most of us don't actually know Torah.

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Right. There you go.

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You know, and so then then you have Jesus, the Torah made flesh coming and dwelling among us.

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And then all of the prophets and things that they had said, because they were once again, what were they quoting?

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Torah.

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Torah. So now they have these things that they have said, these prophets.

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And in the New Testament, the authors pull this out and they say, hey, you know those things about the Torah that the prophets said, Jesus is coming and he is now the Torah made flesh walking among us as a son of God.

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The Torah made flesh.

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These are words that were they had relevance to that moment.

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And then Jesus steps into that role.

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Right.

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And the reason I specify that is because I think what the Tennessee what what happens a lot is we read something like Isaiah 55 where it talks about the suffering servant and Jesus steps into the role of Israel in that in that story.

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But when Isaiah wrote that prophecy, he wasn't necessarily thinking of Jesus.

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He was speaking to something in that moment to bring hope to the nation then.

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And then Jesus in the future steps into the role that God had ordained for him.

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So the and you're like, why is this important?

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Because we can't read the Bible from the future backwards.

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We need it for you from back here forward.

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What they're stepping into.

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Does that make sense?

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That context makes good sense.

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It makes a lot of sense because otherwise what you're going to do is you're going to say everything in the New Testament, like everything in the Old Testament was always moving towards what God is doing in the New Testament.

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Okay.

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Doesn't mean that what God was doing in the old. It means that the New Testament is a continuation of what God has always been doing.

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And so I think with the Tennessee sometimes with Christians and when we talk about prophetic where we're like, well, this was set so that 2000 years later they would know when okay, that word was spoken and all those people died.

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So that would have been a useless word of prophecy in the day.

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Because they all died.

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It didn't mean anything to them.

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But if it did mean something in the day and then you're able to walk forward with it and then God does something in the future.

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It now means make sense in the day and all the way through history because God is really good at connecting his ideas.

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Right.

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Yes, he is.

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So that was a really long way to talk about prophetic word that I thought we just needed to clear some things up, which now I just muddied the water.

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So you're welcome.

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So now why that's important, because then in First Corinthians, Paul is going to make talk about prophecy.

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And we know that Philip had four daughters who were prophets and there was there was Anna and there was Simeon and there were these all these prophets that were existing in the time of Jesus.

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And Paul is going to make sense, make a statement.

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He says, I wish that all of you would prophesy.

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And it's not about telling the future to each other.

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It is not.

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It's about hearing the voice of God, which we've talked about, and hearing the voice of God over other people and then coming and speaking directly to them.

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Now, in your experience, like and so I'm going to stop talking here because I'm talking way too much.

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That's, by the way, a common thing that happens on this podcast.

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In my experience with this is that people who treat prophecy like fortune telling, like future telling, that's where we tend to run into the most problematic stuff with prophecy.

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Correct.

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And that's not what the prophetic is about.

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Right. It's not about telling the future.

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There's one case in Acts where they came and gave an example of where people were going to starve and be hungry and all.

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And so that was a that was a here's here's what can be happening.

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Come be prepared for it.

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But the majority of the prophetic that you read about, it's not.

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It's what Paul says in First Corinthians 14 is that it is for edifying.

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It is for encouraging.

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It is for comforting.

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It's to speak the word to people.

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And that's really what the number one thing we have to look for.

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That's what the prophetic needs to be about.

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It's about encouraging people.

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It's about and is in correction is a small part of that.

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I mean, I think people think that that's the biggest portion because that's what you see in the Old Testament.

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It's like it's they're speaking correction.

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You do this or bad things are going to happen.

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And that's really not the focus of the prophetic in the New Testament at this point.

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I think I think you're you're really nailing to the if there is a correction piece.

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So Pastor Sarah, when she was here with us at the end of the women in ministry, she made a statement.

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She says you cannot have correction without connection.

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Right.

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And a lot of times where I've seen people get into issues with this in in Pentecostal and prophetic churches is they've tried to bring correction with no connection.

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Yeah.

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And they're speaking something and they may actually be speaking with something that they hear God saying.

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But they're speaking it with no foundation of love.

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Right.

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And if we if we back up in First Corinthians to 13, what does that end up being like?

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Yeah.

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Resounding gong or clanging signal.

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Right.

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Like that's what it ends up being.

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And it causes a lot more difficulty.

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Now, my biggest beef with coming from my Southern Baptist background for a lot of people who don't necessarily like the word prophetic prophetic.

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And I want you to share your John Mark Homer story in just a minute.

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Is that they'll say, well, look at X, Y, Z, who did this wrong.

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This is why we don't do this.

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And I was like, listen, just because everybody crashes their car doesn't mean that cars are bad.

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Right.

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It means that we need to teach people how to drive.

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And if the church now abandons the ability or like abandons the responsibility to teach people how to prophesy, to actually let it be messy for a purpose, then we're going to end up with a lot of cars off the road.

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But if we actually take the time to instruct and actually live into it, we're going to have some bigger issues, which is why we started with love God and other people hear the voice of God, fruit of the spirit.

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Now let's talk about this.

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Well, and there is an argument in scripture for structure being around prophecy.

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Sure. Right. Absolutely. Right.

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Like it's it's not actually designed from my understanding, at least it's not actually designed to just be a willy nilly type of thing.

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Like like there's order like in the First Corinthians, there's actually order that Paul lays out for prophecy.

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Yeah. When it's supposed to happen, how it's supposed to happen.

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Right.

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Prophecy can look different, too.

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I was listening to this as here's the John Mark Comer story.

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So I was I was listening to John Mark Comer speak one time and he was and he was like, yeah, have you ever had a Baptist friend like spend time in the word and prayer and then come up to you and be like, you know, I was thinking about you today.

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And he's like, yeah, that's prophecy.

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Yeah. Right.

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And and we all like when we're listening live, we all just yeah, just lost it because it's funny.

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We were like, that's funny.

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That was pretty funny.

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But to his point, I mean, how many times do people think it is? OK, thus saith the Lord.

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Right. Yeah.

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Well, first of all, I want to be real careful before I say, thus saith the Lord, because I listen pretty well to God, but I'm going to be honest.

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I my ears could use some cleaning out sometimes.

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Yeah. And so unless unless I have a very clear moment, I'm it's going to be more along the lines of like I was praying and I felt like God wanted me to say something to you about this.

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Yeah. Is there something going on in your life that resonates with this statement?

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And there's and there's also a way to have those conversations.

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Right. Yeah. Like because at the core of prophecy, it's really to speak truth. Yeah. It's really to speak what is true.

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Yeah. And it should be encouraging and loving.

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And yes. Yeah.

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So, I mean, you take the story of Apollos, for example, this doesn't directly tie into prophecy, but there's there's a connection here where Apollos gifted, gifted speaker.

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Right. And Priscilla and Aquila came along and like gifted speaker loves Jesus, loves Jesus.

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Now we need some direction. Doesn't understand the baptism, the second baptism, like the he understands the baptism of John, not the baptism of Jesus.

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Yeah. Yeah. And and so like Priscilla and Aquila could have just called him out right then and there.

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But would that have been constructive? No.

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So what they did is they're like, hey, let's let's have a meal together. Yeah. Spend some time together. Let's talk.

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Yeah. Right. They built that connection piece. Yeah. And then Apollos became a force for the gospel.

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Right. And so much so that Paul even references Apollos and his other letters. Yeah.

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I couldn't agree more. You know, two things in the teaching I've done on the prophetic and operating as well as number one.

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And I spoke this every single lesson is it has to come from a pure heart.

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Right. If we're hearing from God, we're a conduit for what God wants to bring to this world.

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And this isn't just about prophetic. This is about our life and love and everything else.

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But we have to be a pure because our own issues can get in the way and contain that.

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And I've dealt with people that want to be a prophet in the church.

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They want to jump up every Sunday morning and speak a word that they think they're feeling when I've told folks because there is an order for it and there is a correction for it.

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And when we've been operating at that level, it's like you will clear that with somebody in the in leadership before you speak.

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And some people don't like that. But it's like, no, that is the proper way to do that, because so often it's it's a feeling and it's not necessarily coming from it's it's tainted by what they want to say.

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Yeah. And can we touch on something you just said, because I think it's really crucial when you choose to come under the leadership of somebody else.

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You also choose to sit under their leadership, correct, which also means you're not going to necessarily agree with everything they do.

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Correct. But that's part of submission. Correct.

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Is learning how to how to bend the knee on something you think should be done.

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So our pastors here, they're great. Yes, I love them.

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We don't see eye to eye and everything. There's sometimes I'm like, I think we should do it this way.

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And they're they're like, well, we we believe that God should lead us this way.

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And I'm like, OK, we'll do it that way.

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I'm operating under their authority. And so what I do in my role in this church is under their authority.

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I may want I may I have a passion to maybe be a little bit more outgoing on some of these things.

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But that's not where we're at right now. Right. And I'm OK with that.

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Right. And even with the points of disagreement, we need to be OK even just amongst ourselves.

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Right. To be like, OK, we might not see fully eye to eye on one thing.

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Yeah. Right. We all come from different backgrounds, different stories. We have different experiences we bring to the table.

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So we might not see eye to eye on something.

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But is that is that something we don't see eye to eye on a something, a core Christian thing that's going to tear us apart?

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Exactly. Yeah. Right. My my concern a lot of times what happens with when we say the word prophecy is people are like, hey, I've seen some weird stuff in it.

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So I'm not even going to learn about it, engage it.

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And I was like, well, that's also like just choosing to ignore a big part of what God is doing in the world. Yeah.

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And so if you're if you're a non-Pentecostal, I was like, you know, obviously we talk about hearing the voice of God.

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And I was like, but you read the Bible.

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I was like, have you ever just read the Bible and said, God, give me one passage for somebody today and you don't speak a word.

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You say, I was praying and God let me do this passage. I like to read it to you.

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Like, guess what? You're engaging in prophecy. You're engaging in encouraging people, building them up and giving them the very words of God for them.

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I was like, if that's what if that is something that you feel like you can engage in, I do it.

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Do it. I have a strong suspicion that you're not going to have a place where you're like, man, I really regret speaking verses into people's lives.

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Right. Yeah.

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And I think we often intertwine prophecy to with with things like fortune telling visions, like stuff like that, which I just don't get me wrong.

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I believe there is a place for for visions in the church. Right.

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Like I have stories in my own life where that has been the case. Right.

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And you can even see in biblical examples, God giving Joseph a vision to that Egypt is going to run out of food.

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Yeah. The breadbasket of the world is going to run out of food.

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Like he's telling us something that's coming up. Right.

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It's biblical, like these type of thing. Yeah.

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Warning Joseph in a dream that Herod's hey, Herod's going to try to kill you.

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Right. And dreams are real and God speaks to those. Right. We don't always listen, but no people.

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And I've so there is a place for that. There is a place. Yeah, it absolutely is.

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But less would you say that sometimes we take those those aspects and be like, that's what prophecy is.

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You're exactly right. And it's it isn't just one item of that. It's like it's not just dreams.

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It's not just visions. It's not just jumping up with a feeling like you had a word at this time.

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It's a flow of the Holy Spirit through our lives to show us what's going on around.

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And what you mentioned, Ben, was perfect.

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I know that in praying for people, I have had a vision of something going on in their life.

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It's not something I want to share with them. And it's not for me to share. The biggest part of prophecy is wisdom.

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Yeah. And what to speak and what not to speak. It shows me what's going on in their lives.

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So I'm able to speak to the insecurity that's that's causing that the the whatever whatever other factor.

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It gives you information to pray from and to minister from without being damaging with it. Right.

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Well, and non damaging is is the biggest thing. Correct. Like.

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I don't want to say that God's never going to bring a word of correction through you to somebody else,

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because I think that that would be trying to put God in a box that he loves to flip over, you know, our apple carts.

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We've we've talked about that where we try to put God in a box.

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It's like trying to contain a lion with a cardboard box. Yeah, it doesn't work. Well, it just doesn't work.

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But on the flip side of that, if you haven't practiced just being encouraging, I'm real hesitant to have you bring correction.

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Yeah. Right. Is it fair to say that American Christianity, because we're Americans and that's probably the most the most applicable that we have.

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We tend to be pessimistic or.

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We tend to we tend to be antagonistic, pessimistic, complain about things like that.

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That is a pretty, pretty big M.O. for the Christian church in America.

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The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

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We talked about that last week. So the evidence of walking in the spirit is going to be these things.

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If you are a pessimistic person, you should probably hold off until you're demonstrative of the fruit of the spirit before you bring a word of correction.

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Right. Correct. Yeah. Well, I think with the American church in particular, we have taken the idea of perfectionism that we see in our culture.

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Yeah. We're like we want to do things we want to do them well. Right.

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Like even even from a young age. It's like you're going to. We don't want you just to get passing grades. We want you to get good grades.

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We don't just want you to go to college. We want you go to the best school.

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We don't just want you to get a job. We want you to get the best job. Right.

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We don't want you just to make a little bit of money. We want you to make a lot of money.

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We don't just want you to have a little bit that we want to have a lot of debt right.

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That goes with the best schools, right?

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Yeah.

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The story goes on and we've kind of taken that into the church where we've been like,

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okay, we want to put on the best show possible.

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And we've actually pulled some scriptures out of context for that.

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When in reality, the first and foremost thing in the church should be our relationship with

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God, our love for God and our love for the people around us.

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And when we're doing that well, we're actually going to have a really messy church.

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Yeah.

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And not messy and like it's chaotic.

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No.

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But there will be messes.

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There's no...

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Unless you've preached a number of times, would you say that your first time was as good

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as the last time you've preached?

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No.

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The first time was pretty messy, right?

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It's messy.

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Yeah.

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But that's part of growing.

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It is.

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Right?

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James makes scrambled eggs.

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I'm sorry.

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It's terrifying.

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I'm sorry.

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Yeah.

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Well, he does it in the microwave actually.

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He does it 30 seconds at a time and mixes them.

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And when he cracks eggs, it's a little bit of like, where is that egg going to end up?

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Right?

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But the more he does it, the better it gets.

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The first time he cracked one, it just dropped right on the floor.

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So whenever Denver is like helping in the kitchen, our dogs are just right at the floor.

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Just waiting for it.

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They're just waiting.

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They're like, we know something's going to hit the floor and we're ready for when that

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moment happens.

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And that's so true.

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That's the church.

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Yeah.

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The church has to be a place.

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But like when we're talking about prophetic word, long before you speak to somebody who

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is not a believer, you should speak to people who are.

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Yeah.

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Like because they're going to love you.

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And they're also like, especially if you brought a word or a verse to me, I'd say, I'd be able

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to tell you, I was like, hey, I appreciate the intention that actually has no relevance

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to what God's doing in my life right now.

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Yeah.

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And that's not a negative thing.

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Like you, here's the thing.

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When you share something that you believe got us speaking and to somebody and it doesn't

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have relevance, well, guess what you just learned?

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You learned one other thing that isn't God's voice.

335
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Yeah.

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It's either not God's voice or it's not God's time.

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Or it's not God's time.

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I will say an example.

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You called me Friday morning.

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Yeah.

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And you gave me something that was on your mind and your heart.

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That was the exact point I was in transitioning in my message.

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And that was the exact, that's where I was going.

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And it was just, and the phrase you put in there was exactly where I was heading and

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what I was doing.

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And that was like, you were listening to God.

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You were obviously thinking about the message for Sunday.

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And that was a word for me that was very, very encouraging.

349
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So practical example, continuing off of that.

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I had read what I was talking to him about three days before and I wasn't even thinking

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about it.

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And as I drove in, I had this phrase in my head and I said, oh, I need to call Les about

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that.

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And I was like, oh wait, no, he's probably at work.

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I don't need to do that.

356
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So I, I initially, I tried to downplay it, you know?

357
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So then I just, I'm like, you know what, I'll just, what in the world?

358
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There's a thumb, thumbs up on the screen.

359
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That was weird.

360
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Anyways, that's a prophetic image.

361
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That's a prophetic image.

362
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Yeah.

363
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So, but then I shot him a text and I just said, I said, Hey, do you have a moment?

364
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And he said, yes.

365
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So I called you and went over it and it was, it just happened to be one of those moments

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is just a confirmation for that you're on track.

367
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It was a confirmation.

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It was an encouragement.

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It was everything it needed to be.

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It was just right.

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It was, and so that's one of those, that was a great example of how it can work and how

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it should work.

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It wasn't, I mean, we literally talked and I hung up and then you went back to your thing.

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Like it doesn't have it.

375
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I think sometimes we were making it into like, it's this massive thing and sometimes it can

376
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be, right?

377
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But generally speaking, it's learning how to be in relationship with each other and

378
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God, right?

379
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Learning how to trust that.

380
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And as you talk about Messy and I, I've, I've taught in home groups and, and small, I'll

381
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call it Bible studies at church on that in a safe environment to practice.

382
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Right.

383
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And, and I've literally walked up to somebody that said, God just showed you this picture

384
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in your mind and they just, their eyes got real wide and they just went nuts.

385
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And it's like, that's just God wanting to confirm that that's the message he's trying

386
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to give you.

387
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:51,120
Yeah.

388
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You know, and Lord, I looked at him and I saw that picture and so I, and it's a matter

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of teaching people to embrace that.

390
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It's like he's speaking, listen to that voice.

391
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:00,560
Yeah.

392
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,760
So, so would it be safe to say though that you've also experienced the other side of

393
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the spectrum?

394
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:05,760
Oh yeah.

395
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:06,760
Yeah.

396
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,960
Where like example where like someone comes up to you and they're like, and they say something

397
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to you and you're like, that has nothing to do with what I'm going through.

398
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:15,200
Yep.

399
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:21,440
Well, my favorite example is when a fella comes up to a lady and says, God told me you're

400
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going to be my wife.

401
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:23,440
Oh yeah.

402
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:30,400
You, I know one example where that worked and I know a lot of other examples where it

403
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,400
did not.

404
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,560
I think maybe you're listening to something.

405
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,560
I just don't believe that that's probably listening to God.

406
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:43,360
And like to be fair, I think in my teenage years, especially, and probably early adulthood,

407
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,560
like there was times where interaction with somebody of the, of the opposite gender, I

408
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,920
was like, oh, this is what God is going to do.

409
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,480
Like this is where, let's just be thankful that he actually put me with Tara because

410
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she's great.

411
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:55,480
Yeah.

412
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,480
Right.

413
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,080
And not saying anything bad about the previous people, but they would not have been the right

414
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,080
partner.

415
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,240
They would have been an Etzer Konecto for me.

416
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,680
They would have been a partner, but they would not have been the Etzer Konecto, the suitable

417
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,040
helper that Tara is.

418
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,040
Yeah.

419
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,680
And like, so I got a, I have a friend who, he, he got a clear vision from the Lord of

420
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,120
like, this is who you're going to be with.

421
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,840
This is going to be your spouse.

422
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,160
And he was like, he, he was like, okay.

423
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,440
So he started pursuing that nine years, nine years.

424
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,000
It took nine years before they finally got married.

425
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,000
Right.

426
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,040
And it was a roller coaster ride, but the whole time he was like, he was like, no, I

427
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,320
know this is what the Lord has.

428
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,280
And I was reflecting on that story.

429
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,000
I'm like, man, there's so many times where like it's a promise the Lord gave you.

430
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,000
Yeah.

431
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,000
Right.

432
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,360
There's so many times where he was tempted just to give up and be like, no, this isn't

433
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,360
happening.

434
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:46,360
Right.

435
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,360
I'm sure.

436
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:48,360
Right.

437
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,840
So sometimes, sometimes those prophetic words that are given to you, they, I would actually

438
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,760
argue a lot of times they don't come true right away.

439
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:54,760
Yeah.

440
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,600
We don't understand God's timing and that is so, so correct, Venter.

441
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:58,600
It is a tough one.

442
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:04,880
And I can say that there were things spoken in my life that in my, I'll say mid twenties,

443
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,040
that was a picture.

444
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,520
And I knew at that time that it was a picture where I was going to be 25 years later.

445
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:11,780
And it kept coming back to that.

446
00:30:11,780 --> 00:30:13,840
But it's like, I kept wanting to rush that.

447
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:14,840
I wanted to rush that.

448
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:15,840
I wanted to rush that.

449
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,000
And you wanted to be 25 days.

450
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,200
I wanted to be 25 days, not 25 years.

451
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:30,160
And yet, and a lot of the misinterpretation is because, as I said earlier, it has to be

452
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:31,240
through a pure heart.

453
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,720
We filter through our emotions and that messes it up.

454
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,480
That muddies the waters and that muddies the word because it's like, God says, you're going

455
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,440
to have a wife and then you're all of a sudden, well, I want one right now.

456
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:48,000
And we end up jumping down the wrong trail.

457
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,800
So the thing about this, and I want to try to tie it to scripture and a few stories,

458
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:57,480
kind of what you just were talking about where God's call may come early, but it may be much

459
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:58,760
later.

460
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,040
Would we agree that Moses was called by God very early?

461
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,040
Right?

462
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:08,000
At birth, like we're told this story about how he's, as he's spared, even when all these

463
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,760
boys are being massacred.

464
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,800
And we know that Moses grew up in both Pharaoh's household, but well aware of his heritage,

465
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:17,800
right?

466
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,120
That he was a Jew the entire time because Pharaoh's daughter says, Oh, look, a Jewish

467
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,120
boy.

468
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,120
Well, because he's circumcised.

469
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,600
Like you, it's kind of a giveaway when in a city where everybody else would not have

470
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,760
been, it looks, it's very different.

471
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:39,280
So Moses is 80 years old when he comes back to lead Israel out.

472
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:47,400
80 years old, two thirds of his life didn't even apply to the call God had on him.

473
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:53,020
Now I stress he went, he hadn't stepped into that role, right?

474
00:31:53,020 --> 00:31:56,840
But the first 40 years of his life, he grew up in Pharaoh's household, learning the ways

475
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,020
of Egypt.

476
00:31:58,020 --> 00:32:02,920
The next 40 years of his life, he learned to be a shepherd in the wilderness.

477
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,640
Then the next 40 years of his life, he actually took God's people and shepherded them in the

478
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,980
wilderness and took them out of Egypt.

479
00:32:10,980 --> 00:32:14,760
I think, I think a point to that is that there's a season of preparation that we might not

480
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:15,760
even be aware of.

481
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:16,760
Right?

482
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:17,760
Absolutely.

483
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:23,000
I mean, I think it was the last podcast that we had less on where you talked about story

484
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,600
like that.

485
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,320
But there's, there's times where we have these seasons in our lives where we, where the Lord

486
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,400
is preparing us for something and we have no idea what that is.

487
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:32,400
Right.

488
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,400
Right.

489
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:39,280
And it's a beautiful thing, but it's also, also being, being in that spot of waiting

490
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:46,740
can be very difficult, especially in a culture now, a culture now where it's here, now, everything

491
00:32:46,740 --> 00:32:47,740
is fast.

492
00:32:47,740 --> 00:32:48,740
Right.

493
00:32:48,740 --> 00:32:54,360
I mean, we're in Alaska, so we don't get free, free same day shipping from Amazon.

494
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:55,360
Right.

495
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,360
But, but I know people in the lower 48 who do, they're like, we're there in the morning,

496
00:32:58,360 --> 00:32:59,360
like, oh, I need this.

497
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,160
They order that and a couple hours later it's at their door.

498
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:04,160
Right.

499
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,160
Right.

500
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,160
And we, we are envious.

501
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,440
Like that is, that's a great thing.

502
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:10,440
That's true.

503
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,080
We are a little envious of that.

504
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:18,600
But at the same time we're called to often do the opposite where it's like lean into

505
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,640
what the Lord has for you and wait.

506
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:21,640
Yeah.

507
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:22,640
So true.

508
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:23,640
Okay.

509
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:29,280
So on a very base level, what is prophetic word into somebody's life?

510
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,060
It is a word of encouragement.

511
00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:39,520
It is a word of comfort depending on what they need at that point in time.

512
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,520
From God.

513
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:41,520
From God.

514
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,120
I believe God is saying to you for them.

515
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,120
Correct.

516
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,120
Right.

517
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,120
And you use the word conduit.

518
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,120
So it's not really for you.

519
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:49,120
It's for them.

520
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,120
That's right.

521
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:51,120
It is for them.

522
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,200
And so that serves to accomplish two purposes.

523
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,200
One, it builds your relationship with God.

524
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,040
In other words, that you're understanding his words and you're partnering with him in

525
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,040
the ministry.

526
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,040
Yes.

527
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:06,360
And then for the person who's receiving, it's confirmation that they're also hearing God

528
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,480
and that they're, the way they're doing is actually what God is calling them to do.

529
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,240
Or it's giving them more direction into what God is calling them to do.

530
00:34:13,240 --> 00:34:18,080
So the purpose of both of those is to build the kingdom of God and build relationship

531
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,080
with God.

532
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,080
Yep.

533
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,280
So would you agree then if you're speaking words and they're not doing those two things,

534
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,560
you're probably not doing prophecy right?

535
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:27,560
Correct.

536
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:28,560
Right?

537
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,800
Because you're not actually trying to bring people closer to God.

538
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:31,960
Correct.

539
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:37,000
And there is a lot of people who engage these things and they engage them very selfishly.

540
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:43,040
Now I want to specify that that's not the only spiritual practice that people do that

541
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,200
with.

542
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:49,580
There are preachers who get up every Sunday morning and they preach messages to build

543
00:34:49,580 --> 00:34:51,440
their brand.

544
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,780
Correct.

545
00:34:52,780 --> 00:34:58,720
There are singers, worship leaders who get up and they lead music to build their brand,

546
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:03,840
to build their popularity, to put their talents on display.

547
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,000
One of those things are bad to have, but you're not building your stuff, you're building God's

548
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,000
stuff.

549
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,000
Right.

550
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,160
And we are partnering with him.

551
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:16,760
And so before we want to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water, we need to understand

552
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,480
that what people complain about what happens with prophecy happens with a lot of our other

553
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,720
spiritual things too.

554
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:26,560
So what we need to do is not throw it out, but do it right.

555
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:31,840
I have learned very, very hard lessons in that process.

556
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:37,480
My first real encounter in the prophetic and learning to walk and operate in that was with

557
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,240
a pastor that was excellent at it.

558
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:46,200
And I went to actually a seminar in Tulsa, Oklahoma with him called School of the Prophets.

559
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:52,160
And I still remember that so powerfully to this day and it was a lot of years ago.

560
00:35:52,160 --> 00:36:01,120
And the key spokesman at that school said that it goes sideways when three things, if

561
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,360
three things, the gold, the glory of the girls.

562
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,320
And that's where that's in within a year and a half, that particular pastor in that church

563
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:15,500
that I was going to took a high paying church in Scottsdale, Arizona and ended up having

564
00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:21,600
an affair and within a year or two because he went the wrong direction.

565
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:22,600
Right.

566
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:29,480
And another case with another pastor was it was doing fantastic.

567
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,360
And then it became about him and his brand.

568
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,700
And God won't share his glory with anybody and that went sideways too.

569
00:36:36,700 --> 00:36:40,120
So those are the difficulties and those are lessons learned.

570
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:41,120
And it scared me.

571
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:47,380
It's like I see these two men that I felt were well above me in spiritual hierarchy,

572
00:36:47,380 --> 00:36:48,380
they couldn't do it.

573
00:36:48,380 --> 00:36:53,440
And so I was intimidated and it took me a long time to recover from that, to trust God.

574
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:59,960
And it's also humbled me to where I'm a lot more open to just the Holy Spirit and really

575
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,080
focusing on that open conduit.

576
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,080
Right.

577
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,080
Right.

578
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,080
Pure heart.

579
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:12,880
Well, and one of the problems is that when you're trying to teach something, somebody

580
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,880
has to teach it.

581
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,280
And so that usually involves a somebody who is better at something is teaching somebody

582
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:19,920
who's not as good at something.

583
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:20,920
Correct.

584
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:21,920
Right?

585
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,720
And what happens though a lot of times is people then they start to build up the teacher

586
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:30,000
as something and the teacher is meant to facilitate the greater thing.

587
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,680
In other words, like Paul would say, you follow me because I'm following Christ.

588
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:34,680
Right?

589
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,200
And in the same way, I'm teaching you because Christ taught me.

590
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,240
Right?

591
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:43,840
And when you put pastors on a platform, we talked about this in our Deuteronomy series,

592
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:44,840
right?

593
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:50,000
When you put pastors on a platform, we start to treat them as something other than just

594
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,400
other persons in the royal priesthood.

595
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,480
Right?

596
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,480
We started to say, well, they're, you know, they have a special anointing, you know, and

597
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,320
we start to see our pastors and our prophets and our, and these people who are operating

598
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:10,300
is something more than the only thing that's more than in our life is how much we're willing

599
00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:12,040
to yield to God.

600
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:13,520
Right?

601
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,560
I love the story of Dwight Moody.

602
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:16,560
Right?

603
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:22,720
Dwight Moody was a shoe salesman who heard a message that the guy said, the world has

604
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:26,360
yet to see what God can do through one man fully yielded to his will.

605
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,160
He's like, well, I can do that.

606
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,160
Right?

607
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,520
He's like, I don't got anything special, but God can do great things to me.

608
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,680
You know, like I'll yield to him.

609
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:41,640
And Dwight, D.L. Moody, one of the most prolific evangelists of his time.

610
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,940
Right?

611
00:38:44,940 --> 00:38:49,320
Nothing was special about D.L. Moody, nothing special about Charles Spurgeon.

612
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:56,860
Nothing is special about these guys except that they were willing to yield to God's movement

613
00:38:56,860 --> 00:38:58,600
in their life.

614
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,560
They're willing to lay themselves down and let God work through them.

615
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,960
They are still themselves because D.L. Moody and Charles Spurgeon had vastly different

616
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,480
ways they talked to people.

617
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:07,480
Yes.

618
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:08,480
Vastly different ministries.

619
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:09,480
Yes.

620
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,360
And they touched lots of different people because of it, because they yielded to what

621
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:16,240
God was doing in their life, not each other's life.

622
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:21,280
And yielding to what God is doing in your life is the key because you're not responsible

623
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,280
for the outcome.

624
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,280
Right.

625
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:24,280
Right?

626
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,640
Like you're responsible for being faithful and yielding to God and loving him with everything

627
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,640
you have and loving the people around you with everything you have.

628
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:31,640
Right?

629
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:32,960
So D.L. Moody, right?

630
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,240
Great ministry.

631
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:38,600
The Lord used him in miraculous ways.

632
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,320
How often do we talk about the person who led him to Jesus?

633
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:44,320
Right.

634
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:45,320
Right?

635
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:46,320
Right.

636
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,120
Same with like you look at Billy Graham's story.

637
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,880
Like he'll talk about the person who led him to Jesus and it was one individual.

638
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:52,880
Yeah.

639
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:53,880
Right?

640
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:54,880
Who was just there in his life.

641
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:55,880
Yeah.

642
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:56,880
Right?

643
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,080
And so with that said, it's like don't discount what the Lord is doing.

644
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,640
Because oftentimes we can discount and be like, well, I haven't led the thousands to

645
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:05,640
Jesus.

646
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,720
I've only led the one or two.

647
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:08,720
You don't know.

648
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:09,720
Yeah.

649
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:10,720
Don't discount that.

650
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:11,720
Don't discount that.

651
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:12,720
Right?

652
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:17,640
Don't discount that because we serve a God who leaves the 99 to go after the one.

653
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:18,640
So true.

654
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:19,640
Yeah.

655
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:25,120
Well, and you have this idea of like what I love about Paul saying, I wish that everyone

656
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,640
would have prophesied.

657
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,480
When he says everyone, he actually means everyone.

658
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,920
And I think there's this mentality that we've developed in the church and the way that we've

659
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,680
structured church.

660
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,520
Now we talked about, does church actually mean the same thing that it did in the New

661
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:39,520
Testament?

662
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:40,520
Probably not.

663
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:41,520
Right?

664
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:42,520
Because we structure things differently.

665
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:43,520
Does pastor mean the same thing?

666
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:49,480
Does like a lot of these things are different because we've culturally structured them differently.

667
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,800
And so we've kind of in a lot of ways we said, hey, pastor, we're going to pay you to go

668
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:59,520
and do all the things that actually make us a church rather than actually having the pastors

669
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,440
equip the body to be the church.

670
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:08,680
Now the thing is, I've been in ministry where I was working for the church full time.

671
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,520
You know what the main problem that I had with working for the church full time was?

672
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,880
I never ran into non-Christians.

673
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,560
And now having a job where I work in the community all the time, I run into people who don't

674
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:22,680
believe in Jesus all the time.

675
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,880
And you know what I get to do?

676
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:31,640
Speak prophetic word into their life on a massive scale.

677
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,200
I think it was JD Greer when he got hired at his church, they were like, okay, so you're

678
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:37,720
going to proclaim the gospel.

679
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:40,560
And he's like, no, I'm going to equip you to proclaim the gospel.

680
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:41,560
Correct.

681
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,080
I'm going to show you how to do that.

682
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,880
Because as a worker in the world, you're going to have way more opportunity to speak into

683
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,600
people's life.

684
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,220
The fallacies when you say, well, the pastor, the person equipping me is the person who

685
00:41:54,220 --> 00:41:55,640
needs to go and do these things.

686
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,080
No, you're putting that spot for a reason.

687
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,360
God is speaking to you for a reason.

688
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:01,800
You know, I love the Dallas Wheeler.

689
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,520
We talked about him last time you were here about hearing God.

690
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,480
Dallas Wheeler makes a statement in his book, The Divine Conspiracy.

691
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:08,480
And I love this.

692
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:13,400
He says, you're supposed to be like Jesus, but you misunderstand that.

693
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:18,240
You're actually supposed to be, you're supposed to be you, but if Jesus was you.

694
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:21,920
And that's like, because if you try to be a Middle Eastern rabbi who's going to walk

695
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,960
around with Talmud for three and a half years and then be crucified, like somebody already

696
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:25,960
did that.

697
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:26,960
Right?

698
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,400
Like that's not actually what it means to be like, be like Jesus.

699
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,640
But if Jesus was a young life director, what does that mean?

700
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,600
If Jesus was, I actually don't know your title, but if he worked in your position, what would

701
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,520
it be like if Jesus worked in your position?

702
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,120
If Jesus worked in my position in finance, like what does that actually look like when

703
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,920
Jesus is an advisor in that capacity?

704
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:48,000
Right?

705
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,000
When you're a stay at home mom, what does it look like when Jesus does that?

706
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,960
Because Jesus is going to, the spoken word of Jesus, the Torah made flesh is going to

707
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,000
be prophetic into your life.

708
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,000
I guarantee you that.

709
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,000
Absolutely.

710
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,320
And we're speaking what the father is saying to you in the same way.

711
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,520
We do the same thing.

712
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:04,940
And so we speak the words of the father.

713
00:43:04,940 --> 00:43:09,360
We speak the words of Jesus to other people through the presence of the Holy Spirit.

714
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:10,360
Right?

715
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:11,360
Yeah.

716
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:16,000
It's not something like hugely mystical, but it is a muscle that has to be practiced.

717
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,260
It took me, I recall the transition when I learned that what I did here in the church

718
00:43:21,260 --> 00:43:23,120
actually applied out there in my job.

719
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,120
Right.

720
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:30,840
And to where I could take it into a boardroom or a meeting and I could let the Holy Spirit

721
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,840
show me around the room and see what the people were thinking and feeling and be able to speak

722
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:40,920
to that and to be able to minister in the real world sense.

723
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,560
It was an amazing transition for me to be able to do that when somebody comes into my

724
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:49,920
office and sits down and I'm praying.

725
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,680
I'm talking to them.

726
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,720
I mean, it's not, you know, I don't use my position for that, but it's what I'm there

727
00:43:55,720 --> 00:44:00,560
for and people, you know, it's been able to touch lives, but it took me quite a while

728
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:01,560
to get that.

729
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,040
It goes outside the church walls.

730
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,560
When I have appointments scheduled in the future, I actually pray before my appointments

731
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,080
and I ask God if he has something he wants me to talk about.

732
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:12,080
Good.

733
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,640
And not all the time.

734
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:14,640
Does he give me something?

735
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:15,640
No.

736
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:16,640
Sometimes.

737
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,340
Do you think it's fair to say that if you have not practiced hearing and speaking the

738
00:44:20,340 --> 00:44:24,400
voice of God, like receiving it first and then speaking to others, that you're probably

739
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,400
going to suck at it at first?

740
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:27,400
No question.

741
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,480
It's practicing anything.

742
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:30,480
It takes time.

743
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,480
Yeah.

744
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:32,480
It's going to be real rough at first.

745
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:33,480
Yeah.

746
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,280
And that's one of the reasons why like small group of friends that love you, they're going

747
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:38,560
to encourage you.

748
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,560
Like we're working out.

749
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:41,560
That's what we're trying to do.

750
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,340
We're trying to learn to hear the voice of God.

751
00:44:43,340 --> 00:44:49,960
And the number one thing is if you haven't read the Bible consistently, you need to read

752
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,320
the Bible consistently because it's going to be really hard to hear the voice of God.

753
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,680
If you're not going to take the ones he literally wrote down on paper for you, you're definitely

754
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,080
going to struggle with the ones that aren't written on paper.

755
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,080
Right?

756
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,080
Very true.

757
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:03,080
Yeah.

758
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,080
And so if you are going to engage the prophetic, what do we say?

759
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,400
We have to love God and love other people.

760
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,520
We have to learn to hear the voice of God.

761
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,800
We got to demonstrate the fruit of the spirit.

762
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,920
We got to know the word of God.

763
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,800
And then we practice and still know that we're going to kind of suck at first.

764
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,440
And we may suck the rest of our life, but it doesn't, just because I suck at my job

765
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,200
doesn't mean it's no longer my calling.

766
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,480
If I suck at sharing Jesus as my savior, it doesn't matter.

767
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,800
I don't get to change the call.

768
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:43,160
I'm still required to proclaim the gospel and to live my life as a witness to his resurrection.

769
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:44,320
And that's the real key right there.

770
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,300
Live your life as a witness to his resurrection.

771
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:48,880
That's the biggest, one of the bigger testimonies that we can have to this world.

772
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:49,880
What do we look like?

773
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:55,040
And it comes back to operating in the gifts or hearing the voice of God.

774
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,560
If I have not love, it's nothing.

775
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,160
And we have to have that relationship of love.

776
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:00,160
It did it again.

777
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,160
Thumbs up.

778
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:02,960
The Holy Spirit likes what you have to say.

779
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,720
I guess it seems like it.

780
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:08,160
For those of you that are listening, the video version for whatever reason, just had a bubble

781
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,520
thumbs up and I don't know, we don't know why.

782
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:11,520
Are you getting text messages?

783
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,000
No, I'm not getting text messages.

784
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,000
It's very strange.

785
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,880
I think it's the Holy Spirit saying he likes what's going on.

786
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,880
Yeah, he likes it when you say things.

787
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,840
So as we're kind of coming in to land the plane, we have by no means plumbed the depths

788
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:24,840
of prophecy.

789
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,520
In fact, we barely scratched the surface of just having a conversation.

790
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,480
It's meant to encourage, it's meant to build up, it's meant to speak the words of God into

791
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:32,480
the other people's life.

792
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,900
It's meant to be based in what you know to be the word of God.

793
00:46:35,900 --> 00:46:37,960
It's meant to be done from a solid character.

794
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,540
It's meant to actually forward the kingdom.

795
00:46:40,540 --> 00:46:43,320
It's meant to actually put Jesus on display.

796
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,680
If any of those things aren't true and you're speaking out, you should stop.

797
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:47,680
Correct.

798
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:52,920
Get your heart right, listen to the voice of God, but you don't get to give up.

799
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:53,920
Right?

800
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:54,920
That's right.

801
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:55,920
Yeah.

802
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,480
So some resources that I think are incredibly helpful.

803
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:03,880
So we haven't talked about the office of prophecy, Prophet.

804
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,720
That is something else we'll talk about at some point, but there are some books that

805
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:09,440
do talk about like the fivefold ministry.

806
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:16,240
Danny Silk has one called, it is, oh shoot, what's that book called?

807
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:18,160
I know the book and it's a good one.

808
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:19,640
Culture of Honor.

809
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:20,640
Culture of Honor.

810
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,960
Danny Silk has a book, it's called Culture of Honor, where he spends a chapter where

811
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,240
he talks about the fivefold ministry and how churches that do a fivefold ministry, how

812
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:31,680
they recognize those particular places.

813
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,700
Even if you are not a church that does that, you just have a pastor, there's some helpful

814
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:37,160
things in there.

815
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,160
It's okay if you disagree.

816
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,720
It's totally fine if you disagree.

817
00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:43,240
I do think that understanding like they have a culture of honor where they're going to

818
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:46,520
honor each other, that's actually a really beneficial idea.

819
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:47,520
Right?

820
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,920
So that is one book.

821
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:54,240
Also Practicing the Power by Sam Storms, I think is going to be incredibly helpful.

822
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:59,160
Now Sam Storms is going, he is a Pentecostal, but he's kind of, I would say if you have

823
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,000
a spectrum from here to here, he's like right in the middle.

824
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:03,000
Right?

825
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,200
And so he's going to give you some real practical ways to follow that.

826
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:11,120
One of the books we recommended a few weeks ago, Experiencing God is going to be helpful

827
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,080
because that's also going to be, you hear the voice of God and then you speak it into

828
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,080
other people's life.

829
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,080
Right?

830
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,080
Yeah.

831
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,640
The Forgotten God by Francis Chan, another great resource about just being connected with

832
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:23,640
the spirit.

833
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:24,640
Right.

834
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,720
And you cannot prophesy if you are not connected with the spirit.

835
00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:28,720
That's absolutely true.

836
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:30,280
And that's an excellent book.

837
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:31,280
Yeah.

838
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:32,280
Excellent book.

839
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:40,800
It is loosely connected to prophecy, but is Raging with Compassion by Kendra Casey Dean.

840
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,560
And she just, she goes, she talks a little bit about prophecy in it, but really goes

841
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,320
into in everything we do, we have to do with love and compassion.

842
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:50,320
Right.

843
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,960
Including prophetic work.

844
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,440
So at the beginning of this, I talked a little bit about the Jewish perspective on prophetic

845
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:57,440
word.

846
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,200
So there are two works that would be really helpful if you want to try to understand that

847
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:01,200
a little bit better.

848
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:02,880
But they're going to be a little bit harder to grasp.

849
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:08,600
So one of them is The Prophetic Imagination by Walter Brueggemann.

850
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:13,360
Walter Brueggemann is going to probably be, from a scholarly perspective, a little bit,

851
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,360
maybe a little bit more open than most people would like, but there's some good content

852
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:17,360
in there.

853
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:18,360
Yeah.

854
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:23,480
And then the other is actually a Jewish theologian who has passed.

855
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,960
His name is Abraham Herschel.

856
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,640
He wrote a book called The Prophets.

857
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,040
He also has a book called Sabbath, which is great.

858
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:38,920
But he's just getting into like the prophets and like their perspective and a lot of the

859
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:40,360
things that are going on there.

860
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:44,360
Abraham Herschel has great stuff, but he is dense.

861
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,880
So just forewarning anybody who gets into those books.

862
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,760
They're great, but they're dense.

863
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:57,200
That Francis Chan book that God can't share with people he doesn't trust.

864
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:58,200
Right.

865
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,200
He will share if you have that relationship and you build that and he knows you're, you

866
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:08,440
know, and yeah, practice, find people you trust, you work with, you know your leadership.

867
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,560
If you feel like you have something, share it with somebody.

868
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,880
Take it to Ben, take it to Spencer, myself, others, and just say, this is what I feel

869
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,760
like the Lord's telling me and practice.

870
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:21,120
That's really, you know, in home groups, small groups, great place to practice in a safe

871
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,120
environment.

872
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:23,120
Right.

873
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:24,800
And because that's where you're going to get better at it.

874
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:25,800
Right.

875
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,840
I also really like it when people preface.

876
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,000
I believe that God is speaking this.

877
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,000
Right?

878
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:38,160
Like where you're like, this is what I think he's doing, but I'm not speaking with all

879
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:39,520
knowledge and all perspective.

880
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:40,520
Correct.

881
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:41,520
Right.

882
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,360
What we talked about with prophecy is like, you're literally speaking the words of God.

883
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,680
So if you need a place to start, learn the Bible, pray through the Bible, speak the Bible

884
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:50,680
to people.

885
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:51,680
That's a good place to start.

886
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:52,680
That's a great place.

887
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:53,840
Great place to start.

888
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,560
And if you are like, I'm not sure about like this whole prophetic thing, like you could

889
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:02,040
be the most conservative denomination out there.

890
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,440
And they're going to say, if you read the Bible, learn the Bible, speak the Bible to

891
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,920
people, they're going to be right on board with that.

892
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,000
So you're not even going to be stepping out of your denominational things.

893
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,920
And that is engaging God, engaging people and trying to speak truth into their life,

894
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:15,440
you know, in a loving way.

895
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,440
Correct.

896
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:21,200
And the last piece is don't forget that you cannot correct without connection.

897
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:26,000
And you probably you shouldn't even like think about correction without connection.

898
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,400
We need to learn to like love people well.

899
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:29,400
That's right.

900
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,600
Les, we really want to thank you for being here.

901
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,720
I know you're a busy, busy man and we had fun.

902
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:35,720
I had fun too.

903
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:36,720
It's a pleasure.

904
00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:38,520
I look forward to potentially doing it again sometime.

905
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:39,520
Yeah.

906
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,480
Well, to finagle you once you, because you're retiring at the end of this year, right?

907
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:43,480
That's my goal.

908
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:44,480
Yeah, that's your goal.

909
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:45,480
That's the goal.

910
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,080
Then your only hard part is going to find me finding me.

911
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:48,080
Yeah, exactly.

912
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,320
I don't think Laura is going to let him not retire.

913
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,080
Yeah, I don't think that's an option.

914
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:53,080
Yeah.

915
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,560
She'd have me retired about an hour.

916
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,560
Don't you mean an hour ago?

917
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:00,560
Yeah.

918
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:06,240
So I suspect you guys are going to have tons of questions, especially during this series.

919
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:07,240
Please send them.

920
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:12,480
Like we're trying to figure out like how do we have engaging conversations, but we recognize

921
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,480
that not everybody is going to be Pentecostal and not everybody is going to be engaging

922
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:17,480
these in the same way.

923
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:22,080
We're going to have real conversations and also make this as broad as possible for people

924
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,120
to follow God as closely as they can.

925
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:28,720
Because the biggest thing that we want you to do is grow closer to God and forward the

926
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:29,720
kingdom in your life.

927
00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:30,720
Amen.

928
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:31,720
All right.

929
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:32,720
Well, take care.

930
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:36,560
Yeah, until next time.

931
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,580
And that's a wrap for today's episode of Love and Context.

932
00:52:39,580 --> 00:52:43,500
We hope you enjoyed this engaging conversation and gained valuable insights into the powerful

933
00:52:43,500 --> 00:52:45,520
message of love within the Bible.

934
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,600
We'd love to hear from you and continue the conversation.

935
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:53,240
Connect with us by sending us your questions, thoughts, and suggestions to loveandcontext

936
00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:54,960
at gmail.com.

937
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:59,600
We greatly appreciate your feedback and ideas for future episodes.

938
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,880
Stay connected with us on social media for updates, behind the scenes content, and additional

939
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:04,880
resources.

940
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:09,680
You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook at Love and Context.

941
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,680
Don't forget to hit that follow button to stay up to date with the latest episodes and

942
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,800
join our growing community.

943
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,200
Thank you for being part of the Love and Context family.

944
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,160
Remember, love is at the heart of it all.

945
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:25,040
Until next time, keep seeking wisdom, embracing love, and living out your faith in the context

946
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,040
of today's world.

947
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,880
Who do you think may even notice that I'm wearing the same shirt?

948
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,040
We were literally wearing the same clothes on both your episodes.

949
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:33,040
Oh, dude, I do.

950
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:34,840
They're going to post four weeks apart from each other.

951
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:35,840
Yeah.

952
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:36,840
That'll be fine.

953
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:37,840
That'll be fine.

954
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:38,840
He does.

955
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,040
Every time he does his little announcer voice, he's like, welcome to the Love and Context

956
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,040
podcast, podcast, podcast.

957
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:46,040
With the echo.

958
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:47,240
You got to quiet the echo as you could.

959
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:48,240
No, mine gets louder.

960
00:53:48,240 --> 00:54:12,640
My echo actually gets louder.