S2 of Love in Context podcast welcomes you. Get ready for engaging unscripted conversations with
your hosts, Ben and Spencer. Our mission remains unchanged to explore the Bible through the powerful
lens of love. In this new season, we'll embark on a journey together, unearthing fresh insights and
gaining deeper understanding of how we can love God and live out our faith in practical ways.
So let's dive into this season of Love in Context, where love in the context of the Bible intersect
to transform our lives. Welcome to the Love in Context podcast. Something has happened that
nobody thought would happen. We got Pastor Nick's wife, Jamie, to come on and join us,
and she is regretting every single moment of it. She's about ready to hand that 500 bucks back.
Yeah, 500 bucks. I wish. I'm holding you to that now. So I'm Ben. I'm not Ben. Yeah, that's Spencer
because he apparently doesn't want to say his name. And we're joined by Pastor Nick's wife,
Jamie. And actually, you know what the interesting thing is? Nick has been on the podcast multiple
times, but he's not been on any of the videos. So you're actually the first one in the Mitchell
family on the video. I feel honored. Yeah, you should feel honored. Because we have talked about
in the past that this is actually our fourth camera because the other three broke because we
kept filming our faces. Yeah. So we're just glad that you're here with us today. Yeah. Thank you.
We invited you here because as you know, we're continuing on in the women in the Bible and
ministry. You are the other half of the pastoral team of Pastor Nick. I have long maintained that
pastors' wives are pastors because you're expected to step into pastoral role activity. I'm sure
you've become aware of that. We figured it's probably not a great idea for a couple middle
age guys to talk about, you know, the female perspective. We are glad that you're going to
tap us into the correct way to talk about that. Yeah. Let's see here. So have you, you grew up in
the church, right? Yep. Assembly? Or? Not always. But I've been in assembly for so many years.
For about so many years. Whenever you met that handsome strapping young man. Before him even.
Yeah. So decades. Decades. So was it so Pentecostal, but it was always Pentecostal or
where it was? Okay. I was just curious. We were having that conversation because the last week,
Dominique comes from CMA background, but her parents were actually, well, her dad was an atheist and
her mom was Presbyterian. Presbyterian. Presbyterian. And Spencer comes from a free
Methodist, I come from Southern Baptist. And so we got a lot of different perspectives
on this podcast. Captain Shelby, Salvation Army. Yeah. If you've ever seen my mom worship,
you know that I come from Pentecostal Charismatic Church. Listen, here's the thing. Your mom is,
let's just, I'm going to use the word exuberant in worship. And I love every minute of it,
as long as I don't have to stand next to her. And that's mostly because she's very into it.
And it's very authentic for her. Like if I was moving like that, it would probably not be
authentic. It would definitely be an act that I'm putting on, but it's very authentic to her.
While we're doing music, it's actually very encouraging. I love it when people are into it.
Yeah. You know what I mean? So your mom reminds me of this lady that I know in Washington where
she would stand in the back of church during worship and she would just be all into it,
but she would just randomly throughout songs just be like, hallelujah. She could project her voice.
She could get over the top of the sound system. Oh gosh. And so it was like she'd be in the back
of the church and there'd be times where you'd be doing like a quiet, calm, introspective.
Halleluiah! That's so starring.
Yeah, but it was one of those things where I was like, she is just into it.
She is here for it. Yeah. Just here for it. Yeah. My mom has definitely accidentally smacked kids.
Oh no. As they go by. You know, because our row always just seems to have a lot of kids.
I was just saying, you need to clarify that a little bit. She's just, every time those kids
come by, she's like smack. But her eyes are closed, her eyes are flinging about and they get whacked
sometimes. Well, and one of the things that I like about our church is that one of the things that
appeals to me, especially with a five year old and a three year old is we like kids be kids.
And so like even during worship, like kids are moving around a little bit because that's what
kids do. There's nothing quite as amusing to me as James dancing in the back with his mom
during worship. You know, he is into it. So cute. Yeah. He is into it. Leland on the other hand
wants to be held and cuddled and just bounced up and down during worship. So I'm pretty sure
that at some point Tara is going to be able to just like bicep curl, like a hundred pounds.
You know what I mean? Like it's, it's pretty impressive, like holding the kid and dancing
at the same time. Yeah. So really quick here, you are quite the artist. Thank you. You did a piece
for, for wearable arts, which is where you make your piece from all original material. And then
you make like a costume of sorts. And, uh, pastor Clint, who's been on here, you had his wife as
your model and it was quite the piece. Yeah. Yeah. What exactly was it? Dryer ducting and reflective
insulation sheets was the majority of it. And then a bunch of other random little bits that
put it all together, but it was kind of serpent ask. I was talking to her on Sunday and she said
that she's like, she did it a couple of times and she was a little worried. Some old ladies,
she did it and I was like, that's pretty great. Yeah. It's a little bit terrifying. Yeah. Yeah.
But I saw pictures and videos and it was fantastic. One of the pieces that I enjoy that you've,
you've done before you do those scratch art pieces. I don't know exactly what you're scratching. It's
like black canvas with like color underneath. It's white clay board covered in black ink.
See, this is why you ask the artist, not the musician scratched away and then it's white
underneath. Yeah. Deciding whether to like explain it or be insulted right now. Yes.
The answer is yes. They, what you have to do is you got to get the smug artist and be like,
well, it's actually, you know, you know, I mean, like change the tone of my voice,
change the tone of your voice to condescending. That is, that's actually my default setting.
I have to change it to like sympathetic and kind. I've actually been a huge fan of your
art and my wife is often like, she's like, oh, Jamie does such cool things. I'm going to
copy your idea. And then I'm like, that looks nothing like what Jamie did. So I'm not sure
how you copied it, but artists are weird. So I just trust her. Well, Tara has her own amazing
technique in and of itself. Your, your kids are really funny because your son is so much like
Nick. Your daughter is really good at making art too. Like her whole costume thing. Like she does
like full, it's almost like a mascot for like a college name. I remember on my birthday, she
brought over the Fox head and my son laughed so hard for so long. And then for the next few days,
he was like, can the girl come over with the Fox head? Yeah. And so I was like,
she probably appreciates being called that more than her own name. Yeah, probably, probably.
Well, James has an interesting way of like just talking about things in general. So I introduced
him to weird Al the other day. So I played him the song smells like Nirvana, which is the parody of
smells like teen spirit by Nirvana. Then the next day he says, dad, can we listen to the stinky song?
Stinky song. Like, what did I play him? It's like the stinky song. I was like, oh, do you mean
something? He's like, yeah. So I started playing, started jumping around and I was like, well,
that's, that's a way to talk about it, but whatever. I like it. All right. So back to the Bible.
Got to stop talking about ourselves. This isn't a personal podcast. This is a love and context.
This is the sixth week of our, of our mini series. So we started off in Genesis one talking about
what is the foundational truth about how God sets up what men and women together to be a co-partnership
that we are supposed to together rule the world, subdue the world, be fruitful to multiply to
forward the kingdom of God everywhere from Eden. We touched on some things that we talked about
last season in the Torah series and like how God was constantly elevating women throughout the
scriptures. And then we had, uh, that was where we had Lord crock on. And then we continued on,
we talked about how there's these women of promise. So it's not just Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
it actually matters who they partnered with because Abraham has a lot of kids outside of Sarah,
but only one carries the promise. And, and it's not about just one. It's actually about both. And we
have, there's a lot of like interesting things going on in the text there. Then we talked about
women in leadership in the Old Testament. So we talked about Miriam, we talked about Holda,
we talked about Esther, we talked about who am I forgetting? Deborah, Deborah, like my mom's name
is Deborah. So I'm probably going to hear about that. How could you forget that name? Well,
it's easy because I don't have it in my notes in front of me. That's why. And just like how,
how God actually had been using women in ministry and in leadership. And then we talked about the
line of Jesus and then like how there are these awkward, weird stories where they focus on like
these weird stories about women that God is elevating. These people who are on the outside
are being welcomed in. And then last week with Dominique, we talked about how did Jesus actually
interact with women throughout his ministry, specifically that he had disciples that were
women and he had interactions with women where he was always bringing grace to a very tense
situation and about always about bringing the outsider in. So that brings us to today,
we're actually talking about post Jesus. So we're talking about the rest of the Bible,
the rest of the New Testament, everything that happens after Jesus ascends into heaven.
So with that being said, there's actually a lot of women listed. And as I went through and when
I started listing them, I was like, oh good golly, this is a long list. I'm not sure if we're going
to be able to talk about this in the two and a half hours it takes to record this. Just kidding.
Once again, I always remind people that the writers of the New Testament are all Jews.
They're all going to come from a Jewish background. The one you might be able to argue is whether or
not Luke is a Jew, but he's definitely a proselyte. So he's in the Jewish culture.
So all throughout these books are these people who are part of a patriarchal culture, part of a
patriarchal regime. Rome is very going to be a very patriarchal society as well. And yet these
writers continually are talking about women serving as deacons, leaders, elders, pastors,
missionaries, everything that you can consider in the New Testament. And they're naming them,
which is a big deal. The fact that their names are even showing up at all. That's a trend that we
want to try to spot in the Bible is like when culturally it's not appropriate to be naming
somebody, the fact that they're being named is a big deal. Yeah. And you also need to talk Roman
culture a little bit. And that's because it's not just Jewish culture. Like if you want women in
Roman culture, weren't held a value either. Things like street prostitution and stuff like that was
actually a common state in a lot of Roman towns. And so just a lot of Roman towns, how women could
make money was just through acts of prostitution, stuff like that. Keep that in mind too, like that
they're naming these women and they're not just the context of the Jewish culture, but in the
context of a Roman culture, which didn't hold women in Heistain. And pretty much the only
women you're going to have in high esteem are going to be ones who are fairly wealthy or connected to
powerful men. So when they're being talked about in these texts, it's a really big deal. We talked
about Joanna last week and like that she was married to the guy who was in charge of Herod Antipas's
money. So pretty important person. Cause do you know much about Herod Antipas? Like imagine Jeff
Bezos on steroids. Like he's got money everywhere. He makes the billionaires of today look like they
had nothing. Like they had so much money because they controlled a lot of the spice trade and
movement of things going around. So they were just flooded with money. The kind of things that the
Herod's built, like palaces and stuff, they're archaeological marvels, just astounding cost.
Most of the work for like the stone masons and stuff that would have happened during that time
would have been Herod actually putting them to work doing some of that stuff. Like it would have
been the best paying jobs. Yeah. He was obscenely wealthy, which I mean, of course then that's where
you run into this whole idea that they kind of just felt like they could do whatever they want
as long as they didn't make Rome angry because Rome may not be wealthy, but they are strong.
So early on in the book of Acts, Jesus ascends. And so then we come back, it says that the,
see the apostles with the believers, the disciples, right? So the believer, like disciples after Jesus
ascend, they're called the believers. That's typically the language changes. They no longer
call them as disciples. They start using the word disciple to really illustrate when they're talking
about the 12th. It's just a language shift, which makes sense because now the people who are disciples
are people who believe that Christ has risen from the dead. So it actually says in Acts, it says,
then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, which is
the delicious hill by the way. I love olives. Sabbath's day walk from the city. When they
arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. They're present where Peter,
John, James, and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James, son of Alpheus,
and Simon the Zealot and Judas, son of James. They all joined together constantly in prayer,
along with the women and Mary, the mother of Jesus and with his brothers. So we see this entire
community that's unified together in prayer, men and women alike. Now, why does Luke note this?
Why is it important that he notes that the women are there?
Because if he doesn't, you're not going to assume that they're there because it's not a textual
normality. Unless you mention it, the people aren't going to really care about the women at all.
Yet Luke says, hey, it's really important that you know Mary was there, the female disciples were
there, and they were all together. Yes, the 12 were there, well, 11, because Judas killed himself,
but the 11 were there, but there were other people there with them as well. And so they're
not being assumptive on the other side of those things.
And that's huge. And it's something we can actually learn from is that we want to be careful with
those assumptions of what we think people know or what they might imply out of some conversation.
Like we've even had that conversation about our podcast here. We try to be careful what we say.
We won't have an unscripted conversation, but at the same time, we're trying to be careful
what we say because we don't want people to assume the wrong thing.
Yeah, yeah. Generally speaking, I hope people have grace with us. You know, I have heard from people
that we make a lot of assumptions about the heat of the desert.
Yeah.
You know, because the desert isn't always really hot.
It's also very-
Sometimes it's really, really hot.
Well, sometimes it's really, really cold, like in the nighttime.
Yeah.
Thank you for bringing it back, Ryan.
You're welcome. We got you. Can you show me your shirt? It's great. Well, you may not be-
I can't, huh?
You may not be able to see it, but it's the shirt that says the desert is really hot.
It is available on our store. So if you want one, you can get one.
Yeah, we have a store.
We've sold one hat.
Yeah, we've sold one hat.
Honestly, what we need is we need to have somebody who actually likes designing things
to do things on the store because we're not designers.
Is this a hint?
No. It is an invitation. If you want to, I would love for you to design things for us.
Something I know how to do.
Yeah. If you would like to, we would love it.
Okay, cool.
Yeah. You are 100% more than welcome.
In the book of Acts, Luke is going to bring up women working a whole lot of times. It's not a
throwaway line. We've talked about context is really important. I think the temptation is
to assume things about the text. And anytime we assume, I think we need to be really careful to
examine those assumptions. Jamie, you guys have been married how long? You and Nick.
Or 17 years.
Have you ever found in marriage that you guys are like having like you're just coexisting in
your life and like something happens and you make an assumption about what the other person's
thinking? I never do that.
You've never done that. All right. Well, so then our next episode is about lying. And so
we're actually going to have you come back. I literally have to do that all the time because
Nick is not a talker. Oh, yeah, that's true. Well, Nick's not a talker and he's all over the place.
Yeah. So the I've done a few projects with that group. All right, man. Here we go.
The thing about like even when you when you know somebody really well, like you assume that
something is going on. And so like what I have happened with me a lot of people don't know me
is I have an angry thinking face. Like when I'm thinking about something, my face looks angry.
It's just like and I'm like literally I'm just relaxing and like processing things in my brain.
And they're like, hey, I see that you're upset. And I'm like, who? Like not me. So a lot of times
I think we have to examine our assumptions. In fact, there's a book called Having Better
Conversations. It's about management. But it says you actually need to assume the better,
like assume a better story about people. It's a really good book. And so like until I am
empirically proven different, I prefer to assume the best possible scenario in every story. And
when I have assumptions, I think that is especially when it comes to the Bible, I think it's really
important that we actually go and we delve into those assumptions rather than just proceeding with
what we think it means. And that's also why it's really important to have like the context of the
entire Bible. In conversations with people on this topic of women in ministry, it's really
interesting that a lot of times they will make the statement, they say we need to engage the whole
word of God. And then they focus in on four verses, which we're going to talk about in a couple of
weeks. But they focus in on four verses. And I was like, now the last time I checked there's 66
books in the Bible. Last time I checked, I tried to sneak one in. I feel like quoting four verses
for the entire breadth of like 66 books might not be using everything available to actually interpret.
Yeah. Yeah. You got to hold the two in contrast. Like there's one pastor I know, he just puts it
this way. He's like, there's way more in the Bible that talks for women in ministry than there is
against it. And so he's like, we're just going to weigh out the two. He's like, there's way more on
that side. So we have to examine that conversation and not just hold to the women can't do it.
I think it's really common that, especially in the American church, that-
That's an important specification.
That we don't, if there's a mentioning of a woman in the word, it's not always something that we
think about how important that is that they've been mentioned. It's just, oh, there's a name
and it's a female name. Okay. Well, we'll just continue on reading because in our culture,
we don't necessarily understand how important that is to see that. And also just things that
don't make sense to us culturally, we just pass over because we don't know. We just don't know.
And instead of always digging deeper and understanding why that's there, you know,
like sentences and phrases and names and all this stuff that we're like, well, I don't know
why this is here. This is just a lot of words. Well, yeah. And we've talked about, like,
because I've been over at your house and we've done care group together. We've talked about how
like a lot of times we read something and we're like, oh, this is what it means. And then like,
you're like, oh wait, actually that coordinates with another story in the Bible. That's probably
not an accident, you know? Actually speaking of which there is the next person we're talking
about a Sapphira. There is two people in the Bible and an Isis Sapphira that come up in the
book of Acts. The story in the book of Acts, for those of you who haven't read it, by the way,
highly recommend 10 out of 10, would recommend that believers are, they're coming in there,
they're selling their things so that everybody who's there is able to eat, live, continue the
ministry. Because if you remember at Pentecost, everybody's come from all over Israel to come
and worship for Shavuot. That's what they've come for. They've come for the Day of Atonement,
they come for Shavuot. Then at Pentecost, which is also called Shavuot, the Spirit is poured out
and 3,000 people are added to their number that day. Well, 3,000 people don't necessarily live in
Jerusalem, but they're staying because God did something. They're not going back to their houses
because something transformative has happened, which by the way, is kind of how God works.
God does something and then you're like, I'm not leaving this place until I absorb every bit of
goodness that God has for me. So naturally now you have a bunch of people who are there who are,
they're going to need housing, they're going to need food. And then not to mention that in Jerusalem
in general, there's going to be poor and people who are hungry. Now with this burden of the Holy
Spirit on you, you're going to want to take care of them. So believers who have means are selling
their things and bringing them, putting at the apostles feet. They're not required to do that.
They don't have to do that. But God has opened this new temple called the people of God. The
kingdom of priests are now the temple of the Holy Spirit. And like that, they're now bringing their
sacrifices to move the kingdom forward. So then you have these people who are named Ananias and
Sapphira and they sell a piece of property, totally allowed to do. And they come and bring money and
they put it at the disciples feet. Totally good. But they decide to keep some money from themselves,
but present themselves like they're giving everything. Not cool. That's not cool because
God is doing something very specific about generosity in people's hearts. Nobody said they
had to give up their money. Nobody said they had to give up their stuff. And God looks at that and
he's like, yeah, we're not doing that. Well, this story isn't, I've heard the story miscued a few
different ways, but one way that I've heard it miscued is like, oh, well, they didn't give
their all. I was like, no, it's actually that they weren't honest about it. It's like if they would
have, I mean, like, would the story have been different? This is a little speculative, but
would the story have been different if they came into the temple and said, Hey, we sold our property.
Here's half. I believe so. Now the reason I believe so, and to your point where we were talking about
like the Bible telling other stories in Leviticus 10, there's another story about Aaron's sons,
Nadab and Abihu. And it says that they are consumed by strain. They offer strange fire and they're
consumed. Now, if you go back to our Torah series and I'll link that episode in the, in the show
notes, what we talked about is that there's actually this interesting thing where Nadab and
Abihu are, are frustrated with the fact that they're not being welcomed into the presence of God in,
into the role that is actually Aaron's and Aaron is being brought into the temple of God. God's
opening his new temple. They get frustrated and they go and take their sensors and they try to
offer smoke to be something that they're not. And God, it doesn't say that God's angry. It just,
he takes them out and they're gone. Now we assume that when God takes somebody from this earth,
that he's angry. But if we have such a finite view of the world, that's how we're going to run into
that. But if eternity is a legitimate thing, if God says that there is no beginning, there is no
end, there's only existence with me, then at some point he will look down and be like, you know,
it's probably better for you if I just bring you home. I have kids and there is a time and I,
we talked about this on the same episodes where I have to sit, they hit the, I'm done button.
You for that button. Yeah. Yours are a little older now, but you probably still have an,
I'm done button. So there, there comes a point like when you're at dinner or whatever and like
the kid just like you're, they're doing okay. They're doing okay. And then they,
they start screaming and you're like, listen, we need to calm down. And it's not doing a sense.
So what happens at that point? Pick them up. You walk out of the building, you take them home and
you put them to bed. Yeah. I'm not angry at my child, but I am going to remove them from that
situation. And there's nothing they can do at that point in order for me to leave them there
because we hit the, I'm done. And they've, they've actually compromised something. Now
that is a human example, but I think when we, when we look at the way that God interacts with the
world, we shouldn't assume that he's mad every time, but more that God is having grace. And he
says, listen, it's not going to be good for you. If you stay here, it's time to come home. And so
what we see here is Ananias and Sapphire. Well, I will note is that both of them are given the
opportunity here, not one or the other. She's not held accountable for his statements. She's held
accountable for what she says. I just think there's a really beautiful dichotomy in that, in that
you're not being held to, you're not being judged by somebody else's standard. So that's a big deal.
I think it was actually a tie back to garden of Eden there too. Sure. With, with Adam and Eve.
Yeah. Because when the Lord approached Adam and Eve, he approaches Adam and Adam's like, well,
no, it was my wife. Then he approaches Eve. And so he actually gives equal conversation. And then
she blames the snakes. He goes, talks to the snake, you know, this whole idea of like man and woman
together. Cause we've talked about the Edzer connector, the force that opposes, right?
That, that woman to man is the Edzer connecto. In other words, you're, which is by the way,
a word in Hebrew that's used to describe God most of the time. So that's a pretty good thing
to compare it to. Yeah. But in the, in the eating of the apple or not apple, but fruit,
because it's not specific about apple. It was a fig because they use fig leaves. Oh my gosh.
You and you and your perspective on that, you know what? It's fine. It's a fig. Like we'll call it a
fig, but it says that she ate, then he ate, then their eyes were opened to two, then their eyes
were opened. It wasn't she ate and her eyes were open. He ate and his eyes were opened. It was when
they made a conscious decision together. And I've long said that when a couple together makes a
statement, when one is like, Hey, I'm going to give up on X, Y, or Z. And they just says, no,
that's not who we're going to be. We're going to step out of this. We're going to walk through this.
We're going to, we're going to obey God. We're going to walk, you know, in goodness. I believe
that God takes that and he has grace in that situation because we're meant to be partners
with each other walking this road together. Yeah. I think it's interesting that Sapphira,
my same and our husband, and Ananias, he lies first, gets struck dead. She comes later and also
lies, gets struck dead. But it wasn't like they did that as a, they made the decision as a team
to lie to God about how much they were giving. And I mean, as unfortunate as it feels in the
human world that they were struck dead, it's, it is cool to see it as that they, they had made that
decision equally and as a team and God punished them the same or held them accountable. I was
probably would say, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Held accountable, which, okay. So,
and the main reason I say that is not to like, just, I think sometimes when we use punishment,
it's a negative connotative word. And I think the situation is God is just removing them
because they're not going to be about his business and he's not going to compromise his temple.
Yeah. I think part of that being like just the righteousness of God too. I heard this story
correlate with, forgive me for not knowing his name because no one ever accused me of
being great at names. Nick did. He was like, Jamie's great with names.
No way. There's a dude walk in with the covenant of the Lord and he, it slips and he reaches out
to try and catch it so it doesn't hit the ground and he's struck dead. And it's like, I mean,
he was trying to be good in his actions. You know, he's trying to protect the covenant of the Lord
and it's just the righteousness of God. Yeah. Yeah. When the fall of this man
encounters the righteousness of God, there can be problems for us. And once again, in that situation,
God doesn't say that it doesn't say that power went out because God was angry that he touched it.
He said, Hey, don't touch this or you're going to die. And like pretty clear, like don't do this.
And they got it. Like same thing with Nate Eben Abihu. He said, Hey, don't come into the temple.
If you're not Moses or Aaron, cause it's going to kill you. The Nate Eben Abihu, they want to go
and try to take something for themselves. Now, once again, you have somebody would touch with
the spirit of God and then I said, Sapphira, and they're like, we're going to go and misrepresent
ourselves to try to maybe gain acumen. You know, I mean, have you, I mean, I, I don't want to like
throw anybody under the bus, but like I've been in church a long time. I do have people who,
when they're like, I'm going to give a thousand, you know, whatever it is, right. To like, to really
build up them. And I was like, listen, I appreciate your generosity, but it really feels like this was
about you, not about actually God doing things. The other thing that comes to mind with this whole
thing is there's also just natural consequences. So like, I remember this was a few weeks ago,
you were over at our house. We have a wood stove. We had a fire going and you walked in.
And first thing he did is you pointed out to your kids are like fire, hot touch, ouch,
or something like that. And so, right. And then, but then of course, like your three year olds,
like whenever you say, don't touch that, he's like, I must, I must embrace, I must embrace.
So we spent a little bit of time be like, no, and then blocking the fireplace, all that stuff.
But right. But there's, there is this natural consequence where it's like, Hey,
if you touch this, this is going to happen. And, and so sometimes we overlook that in scripture
too, where we're like, Oh, well they did this. So God's punishing them for that. It's like, actually
no, like sometimes you just are coming to natural cost. Well, and we have such a finite view on
reality too. Like we, we assume the death of like, I think even for Christians, a lot of us, we assume
life is it. And we're like, no, life is the beginning of eternity. Eternal life starts the day.
We say yes to Jesus. Yeah. We have to die once. Sure. But we're talking about eternity. And yet
we seem incredibly focused on the next 80 years. That's being ambitious on my part, but science is
coming a long way. So maybe you're seeing Francis Chan's video on that was the rope. Oh, it's really
good. So he takes us, he's the sermon that he does, but he takes this rope and he has this rope
strung all the way off stage. And then he has a little bit of electrical tape on the end. And he's
like, this is your life and the rest of the ropes to charity. We're going to go from here and go focus
all the way over here. And then we're going to like, it's the last little bit we're going to
retire and live there. And then you still have all of eternity. Yeah. He's like, this is such a small
view of what life's supposed to be about, right? Shifting our focus. Continuing on in Acts, it says
here at, in verse 14, after this, it says, nevertheless, more and more men and women believed
in the Lord were added to the number. Now it's direct correlation to the preaching and the signs
of the apostles that God is bringing both sides of the image to belief in Christ. These same people,
both men and women are the ones who will go out and live out the gospel and actually grow the church.
The apostles are the ones telling the story, but the people, they're actually equipping them once
now, cause kingdom and priests, they're equipping them to go and be the priesthood in the world,
both men and women. Yeah. And this is in chapter two, where then it goes on to talk where he goes
on to quote Joel, I believe where he's like men and women will prophesy. The spirit would pour
it out on all flesh. Yep. So then there's this guy by the name of Saul, who eventually we're
going to know as Paul, but early on he's a Saul of Tarsus. That's what he's known as his Hebrew
name because Paul is once again, Greek, like just incidentally, if you guys are wondering why Saul
Paul, is he known as a Greek or is he known as a Hebrew later on in his ministry? It's more Greek.
Luke notes that Saul hauls both men and women off to prison for their proclamation of Jesus. Okay.
If they're being hauled off to jail for their proclamation of Jesus, that means they are preaching
Jesus death, burial and resurrection, men and women. Oh, the Bible doesn't talk about women
preachers. Yes, it does. It's right here. And it says that he went from house to house and he would
find the people who were claiming to follow Jesus, both male and females, because they were both about
spreading the good news. Okay. Then Paul notes in acts 22 that he persecuted the followers of the way
both male and female. This shows up repeatedly in the book of Acts. Philip baptizes Samaritans,
both men and women in acts eight. It's probably connected to the woman at the well who Jesus had
seen, right? That that whole region was already being prepped for this resurrection because she
had already known the Messiah was coming. So now Philip comes through and he's like, hey, you know
that guy who was here before that that lady was telling you about? He's now resurrected and sin
has no power over you if you trust in him. And so he's going through all Samaria, which is a place
that people don't like. And he's now baptizing people left and right. And Luke is continuing to
know it again, again, men and women. It's not an accident. This isn't an accident. The text,
Luke was saying it over and over again. It's almost like he has a point that he's reminding
them that even in the midst of a patriarchal society, God's doing something different.
This is a random thought experiment and I'm 20 seconds on it. Let me to move on.
Paul was arresting both men and women. Correct. The Jewish leaders didn't do that when the lady
was caught in act of prostitution. Okay. At least Saul was consistent with the law.
Yes. Saul was consistent with the law at the same time. So with that said,
Saul would recognize the quote unquote danger of a woman preacher. So why was 1st Timothy 2 whole weight?
Yeah. Yeah. In that context. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, we're going to have a lot when we get there.
It's no, it's a good thought. We're not there yet, but it's good. I just kind of connected those
dots yet. So that was all. Are you familiar with the story of the Ethiopian eunuch that Philip runs
into in the desert? Like, yeah, vaguely. I mean, it's been a while since Philip is caught up by
the spirit and put into the desert somehow. Like, I don't know exactly. Personally, I really wish
that the spirit could like catch me up in my car and like, just take me from my house to work without
having to actually do the trip. It doesn't work that way. Or maybe it does. Like, I mean, there's
mornings where I start at my house and I get to town and I'm like, I don't remember much of that.
I feel that. Yeah. I don't, I don't think that was probably Holy spirit. That was, that was,
that was probably you missing your coffee in the morning. Philip is in the middle of the desert and
he sees this Ethiopian eunuch on a chariot, on a chariot going by. He sees him reading from the
scroll of Isaiah and he's reading about the suffering servant, about who this is. And Philip
comes up and he's like, Hey, do you understand what you're reading? And he's like, yeah, I can't
understand it if somebody doesn't explain it to me. So then he starts to talk to him about Jesus.
And he says, he's like, well, if I want to follow, I should just be baptized. And he's like, he's
like, well, there's water right there. Let's go. And then Philip baptizes him. And when he comes
out of the water says Philip disappears, which weird, weird thing with you, the Ethiopian, right?
Yeah. Do you know who the Ethiopian was? He was, wasn't he a money manager? Like bank? He was a
money manager for who? The queen of Ethiopia. Yes. Yeah. I said queen. It's in the Bible guys.
So God makes a special meetup with Philip and the guy who takes care of the money for the queen of
Ethiopia. Like maybe he wanted some influence there. Maybe he wanted some influence there. And
there's like conversation about in Ethiopia, because they have like these, they track back
about who this guy was and he may become like a bishop. And, you know, but there was a huge
busting out of it seems church by the time people got there. They track it back to this guy. He
goes back and then he tells the queen, the queen becomes a believer. Now she would bankroll movement
of the church. It's almost like God knows what he's doing. Right. Now, by the way, that last part of
speculation, because I can't prove that I don't have documentation, but it's really interesting
that this is the guy that God chooses to put Philip in touch with. Philip, by the way, who has four
daughters that prophesy. Does he have any issue with women speaking the gospel? No. Four daughter
prophets. Boy, that is, you think raising one daughter is hard. Raise four daughters that are
proclaiming the word of the Lord over you. My mind just went to the like, man, what were family
dinners like four daughters who are prophets. Could you pass the salt? Thus saith the Lord.
It's like you have the disciple, four daughters are prophets. And then Phillips wife, who's probably
like, Oh dear Lord, I'm here. All right. So then I want to talk about one of my favorite characters
in, in acts as prison by the name of Tabitha, also known as Dorcas, which is so great. Like Dorcas is
such a great name. It has to do with Greek and Hebrew and a bunch of things. It says in Joppa,
there was a disciple named Tabitha, the Greek name. Her name was Dorcas. She was always doing
good at helping the poor. Okay. She was always doing good and welcoming the poor. She is the
only named disciple with a feminine noun in the New Testament. So when people say that disciple
doesn't show up in a feminine noun, it actually does in the book of Acts. She is a named disciple
of the way with a feminine noun. Now, most of the time when it's going to be written,
it's going to be a masculine noun because there just wasn't feminine nouns in it in the language
at that time regarding this, this particular role. That's a language thing. That's not necessarily
a life lived thing. It's an intentional addition by Luke to point out that women are in fact,
actually following the disciples. I don't, I feel like that's not an accident that he adds that
specifically that specific Greek word. And she was always doing good and helping others. So there's
a lot of believers or at least people who knew the story around Tabitha that she has been telling
the story for a really long time. So that when Peter shows up because Dorcas ends up dying,
like Tabitha ends up dying and like Peter's nearby and they're like, Hey, can you come see her?
And he shows up and he prays over her and God brings her back from the dead.
All these people are already familiar with the story. Now the demonstrative power of the Holy
Spirit moving through him. Now they not only know the story, they believe the story. And so now,
and so like all those people in that area start to believe. Now, was it Peter that caused them to
believe or was it the fact that Tabitha was constantly doing good and preaching the word
wherever she went. And so then when power came in her life, people believed. She laid the foundation.
She had a foundation. Yeah. Like now Peter, I think Peter would honestly be the same guy. He's like,
he's like, man, you make my job easier. Just showing up here, ask God to move. And like,
you already laid all the groundwork. You've been obeying. You've been walking in obedience. It's
kind of like when our churches, when our pastors are faithful like a week to week to week to preach
the word, follow the gospel, teach people to follow after Jesus. And then a special speaker comes in
and God just has like his hand on him or them. Suddenly people start responding in droves. They
didn't respond in droves simply because that person is because of the faithfulness of the ministers
that have been working with them the whole time. Like Paul himself will say, I laid a seed, Peter
watered, Apollo's harvested. It's not about just the harvest. It's actually about doing the work
of planting and watering. Well, and to Tabitha's credit, she was doing the work. Yeah. A lot of
times what we do is we focus so much on the result. And it's like, actually we're not supposed to
focus on the result. We're called to do the work. Can you imagine if our church, and I'm not,
this is not a negative thing about our church. Can you imagine if our church was known for doing
good? Like people are like, I see there's something that needs to be done in town. Somebody needs to
be helped. You know, assembly is always helping people. Like this is what they do. Like this is
who they are. Like being known for those types of things. I mean, that just opens the door left and
right to actually have relationships, speak into people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what's the conversation
piece you talk about with young life all the time that like you earn the right to have a conversation
to be heard, to be heard, you know? Yeah. So yeah, that's the model that they have is that you're
earning the right to be heard. Yeah. And so with that said, like you're not just going in and being
like, Hey, I just met you. Now let me Bible some people with Jesus. What you're doing is you're
going in and you are building a relationship and you're earning the right to be heard to where they
are like, Hey, there's something different about you. We want to know the story. And you're like,
well, let me tell you. Right. The reality was that style of that style of ministry and that
style of work is it takes a lot longer to do to, to build that trust, especially nowadays, like
especially post COVID. It takes a lot longer to build that trust. As you're doing that, it's,
you're laying the groundwork, you're doing the work, you're being faithful. Right. And I have
a pastor friend of mine, like I see, you would say, as he says, he's like, yeah, I'm responsible
for being faithful. I'm not responsible for the outcome. That's, that's Jesus's responsibility.
And if I see one success, quote unquote, through this all, he's like every toil effort struggle
we've gone through as pastors of this church is worth it. It's really hard to even say success
though, because how many times do you run into somebody like five years later and they're like,
yeah, I remember this thing you said. Yeah. Or this thing you did or how you prayed or the way
you loved your kids. Right. And it inspired like, you know, this, and I was like, we don't know,
we're responsible for being faithful. God's responsible for the increase in the harvest.
Like, obviously we have to go and work the harvest because we're, we're partners with God,
but I was like, he's responsible for actually creating the harvest. He's the one who's going
to draw people to repentance. And I think at times you grew up in the church, I'm going to say a
phrase, people say you just need to preach the gospel. You heard that? Yeah. What do you think
people mean by that? I think it's probably different for everyone, for every denomination.
Cause like in the, in, I will say like a lot of times in Southern Baptist growing up, like
Southern Baptist history, if somebody says you just need to preach the gospel, what they, what
they're saying is you need to talk to every single person you meet about the death, burial,
resurrection of Jesus. Like every single time you're going to preach, preach, preach the gospel.
I was like, okay, but the problem is that's actually not the gospel of Jesus Christ.
That is the fulfillment of the gospel of Jesus Christ. But the gospel of Jesus Christ is
repent now for the kingdom of heaven is here. The kingdom of heaven is here and ready for you to
interact with it, which is accessible through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.
So like it would seem to me that if I'm going to bring the gospel,
what I should be doing is bringing a kind of world into this world by the way that I live
and the way that I act and speak the way that I interact with the people around me,
just simply like, and please don't mishear me. What I'm not saying is you shouldn't talk about
Jesus. I'm saying that you talking about Jesus should be so integrated in your life that it's
a natural part. So the phrase just preach the gospel actually rubs me the wrong way personally.
Oh, me too. I can hear the keyboard typing in. Oh, they're typing so hard.
It makes me think of Bible thumpers and I didn't want to see that. No, it's okay. No, it's okay.
We're known for being a little controversial. We're known for being, we never mentioned people,
but we do talk about like theologies. Yeah. But the idea of just preach the gospel,
what I don't like about is it leaves out living your life according to Christ.
And so what we should be doing is we should be living our lives according to how Christ has
called us to live and in a way to where we are bringing the gospel everywhere we go,
whether we are verbally speaking it or just showing it to know how we live. I've heard people bash on
Saint Francis of Assisi where he says, preach the gospel and use words if necessary.
And there's actually a lot more to that quote. Correct. Yeah, it's a much longer quote.
But the idea there is that you are bringing Jesus everywhere you go. You are the temple of the
Holy Spirit. You are bringing Christ into the grocery store, into the schools, into your church
buildings, et cetera, into art shows, wherever you are bringing Christ into that atmosphere.
And over time that physically changes the atmosphere of that place.
Yeah. In Isaiah it says, a king will reign in righteousness, princes will rule in justice.
Each man will be like a stream of water in a desert land because the desert is real hot.
And he's going to be shelter from a great storm. And this is after it lists all these things where
you're going to be relief, right? Then the eyes of those that can see, we'll see. And the ears of
those that can hear, we'll hear. And the tongues of those that can speak will be loosed. What is
this idea is that for people to see, hear and speak and be able to receive, which is you have
to first be water in a thirsty land, shelter in a great storm. Like you need to be these things
before you start speaking these things. Which kind of goes into this whole idea of like,
where do you fall from love God and love other people? If we're sitting around and we're
complaining and we're arguing about whether or not women can be pastors, are we actually
spending time learning how to love people the way that Jesus loves us? No, probably not. I feel like
we can focus and if we're going to fight, let's fight about more important things. One of the
questions I always ask myself when I'm going about my day, when I'm bringing Christ into the community
is how does Christ want to use me to make this person's day better? That's a question that runs
through the back of my mind when I'm talking to, when I decide not to use the self checkout and
actually go talk to someone who's ringing my grocery store because let's be real, I like self
checkouts and times where I'm like, I just don't want to talk to anybody. I'm just one of them.
I feel you. Yeah. But how does Christ want to make their day better? So our art community,
in particular, Arts Council is very liberal and there's a lot of content that flows through there
that is not always something that I agree with and I serve on a committee for the Arts Council in a
very liberal atmosphere, which is incredibly difficult sometimes and at moments I'm like,
this is my volunteer time and it's like, how better could I be using my volunteer time in another
arena? And then I have to remember, the reason I said yes to being on that committee is because
God needs to be in there. Well, you are the light of the world. Right. Yes. And I know that only
through like relationship and being an example and being the light in that space, can God make a
difference. That's so good. So some of the other women, we're going to kind of start high stepping
through here because I really want to make sure that we set a level of expectation of what's going
on in the New Testament. There's mentioned is Mary, the mother of John Mark, who has traveled with
Paul and a lady by the name of Rhoda. So Peter's arrested and they're gathering at her house to
pray. So this is apparently a regular place they gather. That'd be a place where believers
intercede and listen to the voice of God. And when Peter knocks on the door, it's a woman named Rhoda
who goes back and tells everybody, Hey, Peter's at the door. Like he's hanging out over here.
We should probably let him in, you know? And a host has authority. Like, keep that in mind.
And contextually, if you are at someone's house, that host actually has authority. Yeah. Rhoda,
though, she hears Peter's voice and she doesn't even open the door to let him in. And I love that
because she's just, she has the faith and the relationship to be able to recognize his voice.
So obviously they're close. And then the faith to know like, Oh, that's Peter. And that's what
we've been praying for. And so she goes, heck, to let everybody know. But they're like, nah.
Well, and they also have to wonder because like, I mean, like, you know, it's very like,
Judaism wouldn't be much more mystical than like Christianity today, which I think is a shame
because God does mystical things. Mystical in the aspect of the spirit does things we don't
understand, not mystical in the aspects of let's meditate and be crazy. But they're like, well,
maybe this is a spirit of Peter. Maybe he was executed and he's here, which I mean, is a valid
concern because people were getting killed. In Acts 13, Paul is actually going through his
missionary journey and the Jewish leaders don't like what he has to say. Now we talked about this
a few summers ago at our church when we talked about when they would go through the region of
Galatia and then he, they would invite him in. He talked to them about Jesus and they're like,
Oh yeah, we like this. Come back next week. And then the entire town would show up,
all the Gentiles. And they're like, we don't like this. We don't like it. It's too many people.
These, these people are not, should not be allowed in, which is the scandalous nature of the gospel
is that those that are on the outside are welcomed in. It's not a relatable story at all. Yeah. By
the way, the people on the, if you're a Gentile, you should recognize that women are being allowed
into all the aspects of what men are being allowed into. Yeah. Because we were allowed into a place
that was exclusive for Jews. Amen. Here I'll read this to you in verse 15 in Acts 13. It says,
the Jewish leaders incited God fearing. So this is the Theosabes. These are the God fearing Gentiles
that go to Jewish synagogue, God fearing women of high standing and the leading men of the city.
They stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas and expelled them from their region.
So once again, we, I've talked about Theosabes. It's the God fearing Gentiles. These are people
who wanted to practice Judaism, but didn't go undergo conversion. So they're there on a regular
basis. The Jewish leaders got the Gentile women of high standing to stir up the crowd. So apparently
even the Jewish leaders are like, well, these are the people who are really going to make like
movers and shakers. Oh, and some high profile men. This is not particularly like a good story
talking about women because like they're forcing Paul and Barnabas out, but it is talking about how
women actually do have authority in these contexts. Timothy's mother is a lady by the name of Eunice.
She was a Jew and a believer, but she was married to a Greek. I think the implication is that he was
not a believer in the text, but she stayed with the man who is likely following Paul's instructions
in his letters is that if they're willing to stay with you, stay with them because you might be able
to bring them. And Paul notes in Timothy, in 2 Timothy 1, 5, he says, he talks about the sincere
faith that he sees in Timothy first that lived in his grandmother, Lois, and then in his mother,
Eunice. And he is then persuaded that that same faith lives in Timothy, Timothy, who he's going
to give authority over the Ephesus church. So this guy, he's going to put in charge. He says,
the faith that I saw in your grandmother and the faith that I saw in your mother is the same faith
I see in you. And that's what gives me the comforting reasoning to put you in authority
because I know that there were strong women in your life who spoke into you.
Quite a statement about those women. This is one you like to talk about is Lydia.
So Lydia, purple cloth, when Paul went to Philippi, started this church, where did he go?
He went to the banks of the river where these women were working. Now Lydia had means because
purple cloth insinuates wealth. So he starts this church in Philippi. And one of the things I always
find interesting about this is the letter of Philippians. Like when people study it and like,
oh, well, we're reading Philippians. I was like, who do you think it was written to?
Yeah. Like it was written to church leadership in Philippi, which were most likely women.
Yeah. Did you actually notice in the text that, okay, so you know how it always says that he and
his whole household believed when Lydia believes it says Lydia and her whole household believed.
That's, that is not a, like something just glance over in the text that was dropping some heavy
hammers and mics. And the other thing to not glance over is if you read Philippians,
Philippians is one of the most encouraging books because of the good work that the church in
Philippi is doing. Yeah. There actually is no direct correction. Unlike Galatians, unlike
Ephesians, unlike Corinthians, unlike Romans. So all these other churches, Paul actually provides
some level of direct correction, but the church that's led by women, he's like, you're killing it.
Not only that, like his thing is like, these are the things you're doing really well. Here's how you
go even further. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's a great conversation to have, by the way, when you're like,
listen, you are doing a great job. Let me tell you how you can be even better. Yeah. It's not a
negative. Well, the, so the funny part about it is the first pastor I ever heard talk about how
there's no direct correction and, and the letter of Philippians was actually a Southern Baptist
pastor. And I already like had connected dots about like, well, he's writing to a group of
women pastors. He's not mentioning that. Yeah. But he's just going to skirt around that. Yeah.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at that time in how the women worked together, because
it's unfortunate that now in our culture to see women work together in the church,
it's not always a pretty thing, you know, and I don't know where we
went wrong or why, why it has this feeling of almost a competition. Now my own personal experience,
my own personal experience, like my co, like pastor wives, leadership wives, I am thrilled at
this point in life to have like such an awesome team. Like I feel very, very blessed. And maybe,
I mean, maybe that's where we're doing it right. You know, but I've just seen so much conflict in
the church between, between women in particular. And, but do you, do you think though maybe some
of that comes from the fact that like, if you are disqualified by bad theology, that you maybe just
scrimp for any piece of authority you can get, like trying to step into any piece of like,
you know what I mean? If you're not allowed to do something, like you're purposely allowed for
something that may legitimately be a calling in your life, that, that like, there's like some
angst, there's some frustration there's, and that just bleeds over into the way. And like, cause here
at our church is a lot of collaborative, like we're going to work together. Nobody has a super big
Eagle about anything. We're just going to work through this and deal with it together. Yeah.
We'll pick up the pieces when people are gone and you know, it's great. Like to your point,
like you and the, and the other counterparts get along really well. Yeah. Like you support each
other. I think another part of that too, I think a lot of times we don't, we feel, we see a need
that we need filled. And then we're like, where's a warm body to fill it? And then we're not actually
putting someone in a place where they would be gifted to serve or take joy in serving. Right.
And I think that gets overlooked because I hate the stereotype on this one, but like a lot of times
where women get put in ministry is things like greeting, nursery, kids ministry. I've seen a lot
of women who've begrudgingly agreed to serve in kids ministry and hated it. Right. Not because,
not because they hated kids, but it's just not what they were gifted at. You know, the, the hard
the hard thing about that too, is that when you try to force gender stereotypes in there,
there might be a man who's incredibly gifted at working with kids, right. And a woman who's
incredibly gifted at teaching adults and like they're not operating in the way that God made
them to be. We're trying to force them to be different than what God wants them to be. Yeah.
You know, now all that being said, like sometimes we fill in a ministry is just because there's a
need. Absolutely. But we're talking about long-term like faithful, like walking, right? Yeah. Yeah.
And so, so sometimes we jump in when there's a need. I think that's one of the call for church
leadership though. Yeah. It'd be like, if somebody wants to get involved and serve, let's have a
conversation about where, where your gifting's at. Yeah. Like, like what, what brings you like,
what, what's something that brings you joy? Yeah. Later on in the text of Acts, it does talk about
again, it's these chief and honorable women of the Greeks and because they're once again, trying to
get Paul to leave the city. It's a different city. And they're like, let's get these, you know, these
really high powered women. It actually happens a lot of times that the Jewish leaders are like,
let's get these, these really strong women to get them out of here, which is a surprising,
especially when you know things about like Ephesus and like those areas too. In 1734 of the book of
Acts, it says this, some of the people became followers of Paul and believed among them was
Dionysus, CS. Hmm. I'm really good at those words. A member of, a member of the Arropegas,
also a woman named Demarius and a number of others. Okay. Some of those people became followers of
Paul. What does that mean? Disciple. Disciple and believed among them was this one dude. And then
there's a woman named Demarius who is now a disciple of Paul. Okay. What is the idea of a
disciple? A disciple is somebody who knows what the rabbi knows to do what the rabbi does in order
to be just like the rabbi and the walk with God. So that's why we apprentice under rabbi Jesus.
Yeah. And Paul says imitate me like I imitate Christ. So the idea is if you're a follower of
Paul, you're ultimately trying to imitate Christ. Yeah. Once, it, once again, talking about disciples
like Jesus, we see here that Paul takes on disciples that are women as well. All right.
And then there's this lady by the name of Priscilla. There is a lot about Priscilla. So I'm going to
kind of mention her just a few times. In 18 to us, there is a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus,
who had recently come from Italy with his wife, Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all the
Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them and because he was a tent maker, as they were,
he stayed and worked with them. So he's a tent maker. So he stayed with them. And then he tells
them about Jesus, right? It says in 18, 18, it says Paul stayed on in Corinth for some time.
Then he left the brothers and sisters and sailed to for Syria accompanied by Priscilla and Aquila.
Well, what just happened there? I know, but wasn't it a place first, she was placed first,
which is a very big deal in the way that you put the text. Because if you actually read, even when
Barnabas and Paul first go out, it's Barnabas and Saul, Barnabas and Saul, Barnabas and Saul,
then something happens and it's Paul and Barnabas. Like there is a shift that happens because one
actually becomes the instigator. And that's not to say that they're not together, but it means that
one is a look to the one who is in leadership. So now it says Priscilla and Aquila. Good pick up,
Jamie. High five. I'm not going to reach all the way over there because I'm going to stretch.
Don't tell people that. You can cut it out. Make me look smart. I'm going to leave just that in
so people know that you're a smart aleck. Oh, by the way, I also know to hear it says that before
he sailed, he had his hair cut off at this place. I'm not going to read it because of a vow that he
had taken. So if we remember, what vow do you actually not cut your hair? Nazarite vow. So Paul
had been taken the Nazarite vow to become closer to God. So he had not been touching dead things
or drinking fermented drink and he had not cut his hair. Then when he had fulfilled his vow,
he cut his hair. That's how you run through the fulfillment of the vow. This is also one of the
things I want to point out to people where we talk about, well, Paul just lived a completely
non-Jewish life once he became a Christian. No, he was still following Jewish law all throughout
his ministry. This is once again, like he is fulfilling a Nazarite vow at this point. That's
a very Jewish thing to do. You don't do it if you're not like that is a substantial vow to take.
Yeah. Continue on with Priscilla in 1824. It says, meanwhile, a Jew named Apollos,
gifted speaker, a native of Alexandria came to Ephesus. He was a learned man with a thorough
knowledge of scripture. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord and he spoke with great
fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only of the baptism of John.
He began to speak boldly in the synagogue and when Priscilla and Aquila heard him,
they invited him to their home and they explained him the way of God more adequately.
They're like, we see what you're doing and you're doing a great job,
but let's help fill in the gaps for you. Once again, Priscilla and Aquila now educating,
teaching, having authority in instructing a very well-known pastor of that time.
And side note, note how they corrected and how they instructed. It wasn't the Uheretic model.
It was like, hey, we got to fill in some gaps, but what we're going to do, come over for dinner.
Let's enjoy the meal. Let's have a conversation. And the whole thing is they, they, they. I love
that it's they. They're doing it together. Priscilla and Aquila, even though she is the more prominent,
they do things together. They're an awesome, they're a power couple. They're the pastor,
Nick and Jamie of. Now go ahead. I think Priscilla is the outgoing, well-spoken one.
That's not happening in the Knicks in my relationship.
He's like, Hey, let's go talk to people. And you're like, do we have to? Yeah. I don't know. I
don't know. I mean, there's times I've gone over to Nick and Jamie's house and Nick's like, yeah,
come on in. And Jamie's like, why are you here? Peace. No, no, it's really funny.
We enjoy you. I that sounded convincing. What she said, she's like, it's, it's really fine.
Side note, like I, there was a time where my brother-in-law, brother-in-law and sister-in-law
were in town. They were staying in that Airbnb, like right next to your guys' place. I was trying
to convince my brother-in-law just to go like sit on your guys' couch and be like, yeah, this is our
Airbnb. Right. And, and I told Nick that he's like, he's like, I would have thought that was
funny. He's like, Jamie, that's not funny. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,
that's funny. He's like, Jamie, no. That's so good. But luckily my sister-in-law was like,
my brother-in-law was going to do it. And she was like, no, you can't walk into their house.
That's so good. That's the woman bringing, you know, structure and discipline too.
So it, beyond the book of Acts, Paul actually mentions Priscilla a couple of other times. So
in Romans 16, three, he says, greet Priscilla and Aquila, my coworkers in Christ Jesus. They risk
their lives for me. Not only I, but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them.
Greet also the church that meets in their house. So coworkers meaning, mean people that are doing
the same work. So Paul is under the impression that he, Priscilla and Aquila are his coworkers.
And they're also supposed to greet the church meets to their house. Interesting. I'm wondering
if maybe somebody might be a pastor. They're also mentioned in first Corinthians in the same way.
And they're known throughout the regions. And in second Timothy, Paul tells Timothy to greet
Priscilla and Aquila. They are clearly significant parts of the ministry of Paul. Like he talks
about them all the time. And they're close friends. Yeah. Probably because they were all tent makers.
Then there's a lady by the name of Phoebe who's mentioned in Romans. It says here, it says,
I commend you, my sister Phoebe, a deacon, the church in, uh, San Crea. Yeah, that's a word.
I'm not Greek. So there is debate over the word deacon there on Phoebe, but, but the implication
though is that she has authority because Paul in that later in Romans 16 one actually says,
do what she says. Yeah. Like, well, yeah, it continues to says, I ask you to receive her
in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you. For she
has been a benefactor of many people, including me. So the word sister, by the way, is the Greek
word for sister and it's used throughout the Bible. I mean, it literally means sister, right?
Cause there's conversation about was Phoebe a man or a woman because they try to do some things
with like her name, right? So a sister over and over again, if you look up the word deacon,
it's actually the same word that Paul uses in his letter to Timothy when he's talking about
qualifications of deacons for the church is the exact same word. So the word deacon literally
means servant, but to be fair, this is the same word that Paul uses to describe himself
and Apollos and Peter. This is an upside down kingdom of God because those in authority
are really those that serve. The apostles are supposed to be servants of the people
to empower others to be Christ in their community. It's just one of those things where they're like,
well, you know, servant means blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, servant would actually be the
person of highest authority because if you understand the kingdom of God, the person who
serves is the one who is actually the greatest. They're modeling after Jesus who bent down,
served and washed feet. Nasty feet. Nasty feet. Yeah. Even the feet of Judas. So mentioned just
after Phoebe is a lady by the name of Junia. It says to greet Andronikos. So these guys got
great names. If you're about to have a boy and you have a baby and you want to get a name,
Androkinus, Androcus, that's the name right there. Yeah. And Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in
prison with me, they are outstanding among the apostles and they were in Christ before I was.
Junia is a proper feminine noun that means youthful. So once again, there's a conversation about
is Junia actually a man or a woman? It is a proper feminine noun in the Greek.
Paul considers both her and Androkinus apostles, which means, which we've talked about in the past,
that apostles are people who are sent from one place to another place to make the place they go
to look like the place they come from. If we are apostles for the kingdom of God, we make every
place we go look like the kingdom of God. We bring kingdom wherever we go. It's the same word,
same Greek word that is used for the 12 apostles and for Paul. So Paul notes that they were in
Christ before him, meaning that they have been disciples or apostles for a long time at the
writing of this letter. Because when he writes Romans, it's been multiple years that he's been
a Christian. And I've heard people when we've, when Romans 16 has been brought up where they're
like, oh, you really have to dig on that type of stuff. I was like, you don't, you don't,
you don't. It's, it's clear to female names listed with authority. Yeah. Like you don't have to,
like this isn't, if you're wondering like, oh, well, where are you getting all this information?
I was like, this is actually just very clear in the text in English.
Cause name was changed though at a point in time during certain, certain texts had changed.
Yeah, there are, there are certain translations that I've tried. Yes. They're trying to change
it to a male. Yeah. They tried to change it to like a justice almost. Yeah. Yeah. And,
but when you go back to the original, uh, manuscripts, yeah. What's one of the nice
things about like Dead Sea Scrolls showing up is that you have like older manuscripts that are
able to actually coordinate with each other. And it's, it's definitely Junia. Yeah. Like you can
try to change it all you want, but it's definitely Junia. But crazy to think like, you know, just how
hard society changed, tried to change things in the Bible to, to eliminate God using women.
Well, it's not even a new thing because in the 1600s, there was a German woman preacher in the
Reformation who was speaking about God's authority for women to preach. And she ran a church with
her, with her pastor husband and he died and she continued to run it for another 20 years after he
died. Yeah. She was actually speaking opposite of Calvin. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to talk about her
in a couple of weeks. It is crazy to me that you, somebody would actually go as far as to even try
to edit the Bible because of their particular theological stance. There are people who do that,
and we call them cults. I'm going to say that again. There are people who do that and we call
them cults. Really be careful about trying to make the Bible say something it doesn't say.
If, if you want a good example of who you should be following as far as like pastor or leader goes,
look for the, look for the pastor or leader who has a repentive heart about what they've done wrong.
So good. And continually has a repentive heart about what they've done wrong.
So good. And we've talked about David with more on the podcast, but David, king of Israel, not
necessarily a great role model you want to follow after in many aspects, like pretty bad dad had an
affair with a woman, got her pregnant and I was like, okay, well let's try to get her to sleep with
her husband so that this looks legit. Oh, that's not going to work. Okay. Let's have her husband
killed off through some political scheming. Well, this goes on. Right. So what made David a man after
his own heart after God's own heart, he repented every time he's willing to own up to his mistakes.
Yeah. Yeah. And so if you're looking for a good role model, as far as pastor, look for the one
who has a repentive heart. Yeah. Because they will make mistakes. All right. I'm going to rapid fire
awesome names here because I'm not going to get super deep in these rent remainder of Roman 16.
Paul greets a ton of women. He says, greet triphenia and trifosa great names, by the way,
if you're having twin daughters, go for it. Those women who work, they work hard in the Lord.
Greet my dear friend, Pursus, another woman who has worked very hard for the Lord.
Greet Rufus chosen in the Lord and his mother who has been a mother to me too.
Greet Anson, cretus, fledged, flag on man. It looks like phlegm. Hermes, Petrobus,
Hermanus and the brothers and sisters with them. Greet Philo, Joelius, Julia, Nereus, and his sister.
Somebody who knows Greek, they're going to hear me say this. And they're like, those are not
the correct pronunciations. I apologize. Come on the podcast. I'll let you pronounce them correctly.
And Olympus and all the Lord's people who are with him. And then there's a conversation about Chloe,
who is mentioned in 1 Corinthians because it's Chloe's household that writes to Paul and says,
Hey, we got some issues going on here. Can you write us a letter of repentance?
So Chloe's well thought of enough that her household writes to Paul and he's like, oh,
got to answer that. And then there's a couple other women listed briefly. There's Euryodia,
there's Sintish, Claudia, Afia, and Nympha. So here's the thing. We didn't actually mention
all the women talked about in the New Testament. I briefly skipped a stone across. I tried to pick
out the most prominent names for you, nor in church history. We're going to talk about some
of that next week. What we should see is that the woman who is mentioned in 1 Corinthians
in this text is that God is absolutely using women not only to forward the church, but to
lead the church. House the church, do the good work in communities and many other things.
So the qualifications for ministry leadership is the call of God on your life, not your gender,
not your experience, and not your knowledge. God doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the
called. I can't remember who said that originally, but I love the quote. Our job for both men and
women is to listen to the call of God on our life, but also ask God what he's doing in the lives of
those close to us, to recognize the call in their lives as well. Then to live into the call of God
puts on our life and to help others live into the call that God has put on their life. And this is
especially true when it comes to women. So Jamie, I'm going to put you a little bit on the spot here
because I think you're going to be more qualified to talk about this than most. What has been your
experience growing up, maybe not in the Pentecostal church because I know that they're a lot more
open to like dating women and stuff like that, but what has been your experience growing up in
the church with people's perspective on women in ministry or teaching? And like, have you had a lot
of issues that you've run into with that? Well, like you'd mentioned earlier, I do think that
there are those gender stereotype positions that women are, I'll say, encouraged to take place in
like children's ministry, nursery. I was part of a young adults internship for a while. There were
times when it certainly felt like there was more emphasis put on teaching the young men than there
were the young women. I saw some of the young women got put in place of taking care of like the
pastor's kids. To be fair, like I think all the interns kind of took a little bit of share in that,
but one girl in particular. And so I think some of that just comes culturally, like that's
just the mindset and the habit that we get stuck in. But I fully appreciate you recognizing
that sometimes there's a calling on the lives of women that are not always accepted or recognized
or encouraged to happen because they're more often positioned that a man's put into.
Yeah. Do you think maybe I was thinking about this, there's also maybe a little bit more
scrutiny put on a woman who serves in ministry than there is on a man who would step into the
exact same position. Oh yeah. Yeah. I think there's way more eyes on women and kind of always
some people waiting for them to trip up. Yeah. We've had this conversation that we said,
if you speak from the pulpit from any period of time, you're going to speak heresy because,
not on purpose, but just because you're talking in front of people, you're going to say something
strange, which I've never done ever. But I think that with, there's a lot of latitude and
a lot of latitude given to people because of their gender and not necessarily because of their
calling. Yeah. That's not to say that I don't think we should hold pastors accountable. I
think you absolutely should. But can we be consistent in that basis? Because when I'm
holding a pastor accountable, male or female, my desire is for them to grow in what God is calling
them to be, not for them to feel bad about what they're doing. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Well, you know that my mother-in-law is an ordained pastor and that she is pastoring in the
South right now, which has not been easy. They've been there for quite a while, I think,
almost 10 years now. I have thought about having her on the podcast, but I'm pretty sure we wouldn't
get to say anything. You're probably right. But she's shared a lot of her struggle about how much
more difficult it is from moving from a state that's quite a bit more open to women in ministry,
you know, to states where it's just not as easy. Yeah. You're going to have a lot more of that
ingrained in... because Georgia, yeah, you're going to have a lot more of that ingrained in
Georgia. That's not to... if anybody's listening from Georgia, we love Georgia.
Yeah. Yeah. And so that we're speaking of a general trend, not of specific people.
When you're in the Bible belt, that's kind of like you have... where faith became a tradition
rather than an expression of truth. And please understand, like, if your church is handling some
of these issues that we're talking about really well... We love it. Love it. Yeah. Awesome. In
fact, if you have stories, please send them to us because we'd love to share them. Like, we'd love
to hear about what's going on in your churches and how God is moving, and just love to encourage
anybody who is stepping into this. And I think once again, it's probably important for us to...
we're over-emphasizing women in this series because we feel like they've been de-emphasized.
Yeah. What we're never saying is that every woman should be a pastor. But we believe that we should
all look for the call of God in our life and lift people up for that call. And that gender is not
part of that equation. Yeah. Do you have any final thoughts or anything that you want to share?
I will in like an hour. In like an hour? Well, that's great because we won't be recording in an
hour. Yeah. Yeah. They'll all flood in about at the same time and I'll have so many fantastic
things to say. Well, that's actually good because we're actually going to push record now and do
that whole thing again. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you for peer-papering me into being a part of this.
Yeah. Thanks for joining us today even though we can't see you. Oh yeah. Or can we?
You just look creepy. Until next time. Thanks.
And that's a wrap for today's episode of Love and Context. We hope you enjoyed this engaging
conversation and gained valuable insights into the powerful message of love within the Bible.
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I will follow along, but you are responsible for keeping us back on track.
Did you know sometimes Nick takes these supplements that have those, what is it,
lion's mane mushroom in it? Oh yeah. And it's supposed to give you like this real
buzz and your brain just goes off. And I thought this morning like, oh maybe I should take some
of that. It would help me focus and actually have words and remember the words that I want to say.
And then legitimately interrupt us anytime. And just the only way that I'm going to get a word
in edgewise. Just interrupt us anytime. We're good with that. Wink. That's just the camera can see
me. I don't know if they can see me wink from that far away. Probably not.