1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,560 Season two of Love in Context podcast welcomes you. Get ready for engaging unscripted conversations 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:14,240 with your hosts, Ben and Spencer. Our mission remains unchanged to explore the Bible through 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:19,880 the powerful lens of love. In this new season, we'll embark on a journey together, unearthing 4 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,000 fresh insights and gaining deeper understanding of how we can love God and live out our faith 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:29,360 in practical ways. So let's dive into this season of Love in Context, where love in the 6 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:36,200 context of the Bible intersect to transform our lives. Welcome back to the Love in Context 7 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:41,420 podcast with Ben and Spencer. I'm not Ben. I'm not Spencer. Yeah. In case you were wondering. 8 00:00:41,420 --> 00:00:46,280 We are, however, joined by somebody who it actually is this week. We have Captain Shelby 9 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,720 from the Salvation Army with us today. Hello. I'm so excited to have you here today. Thank 10 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,880 you for having me. Can you tell us a little bit, one about yourself, but also about the 11 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,800 Salvation Army? Because you kind of gave me some like high points on the Salvation Army 12 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,480 things I didn't know like founded and like where it came from and those kind of things. 13 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:10,440 Right. Yeah. So my husband and I are pastors in the Salvation Army. And we've been up here 14 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:15,840 in Alaska for roughly three years. Now, he's probably going to listen to this. So who outranks 15 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:26,280 who? I do. But that's only by years of service. So we met going into the training school, 16 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:34,720 which is kind of like a seminary, a seminary. Right. It's a two year program down in California. 17 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:40,200 And the only reason I outrank him is because I was a second year, as they call it, while 18 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:45,880 he was a first year. And we met fell in love and God wrote the rest of the story. I hear 19 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,560 you saying that. But I choose to believe that you outrank him because you're better. So 20 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,960 that's just what I choose. I will say neither here. But I'm sure he'll listen to this episode 21 00:01:54,960 --> 00:02:01,840 and you're welcome. You're welcome, Brian. So to be fair, he moves up the ranks to captain 22 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,400 in June. So then we'll be on equal playing field. So also. Yeah. How long have you been 23 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:12,920 with us here in the city? I've been all over the place. Yeah. We have been here since summer 24 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:20,040 of twenty twenty one. Before that, we were in SoCal for a couple of years. I'm sorry. 25 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:27,480 I was sure we know we love it up here. Love the slower pace. I'm originally from the Pacific 26 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:33,800 Northwest. So I'm used to the rain and the clouds. Yeah. The dramatic weather is what 27 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:38,840 we call it. Dramatic weather. Yeah. Yeah. The Salvation Army. Most people think we're 28 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:45,400 just thrift stores. We don't do a very good job of promoting ourselves out there, but 29 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:56,400 we are an evangelical church closely aligned to the Methodists or the Church of Nazarene. 30 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:03,200 And we were founded by William and Catherine Booth, who in eighteen sixty five were getting 31 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:10,440 tired of the way church was done and decided that they wanted to take church to the streets 32 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:18,400 and go and serve the least of these. And so they pulled in the ranks, you know, people 33 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:24,380 down and out and destitute and told them that there's a better way of life for them. He 34 00:03:24,380 --> 00:03:32,300 adopted kind of the militaristic way of doing things just so that you wouldn't know the 35 00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:38,240 difference between someone who's off the street and someone who has, you know, much wealth 36 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:43,960 that kind of wearing the uniform and all of that kind of puts everybody on an even playing 37 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:52,520 field. Right. Regardless of your social stature. And it's, you know, it's survived. However 38 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:59,520 many years we're still wearing uniforms, we're still have ranks. Our members are called soldiers. 39 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:06,080 Yeah. And the Salvation Army, we're a church, evangelical church, but we also do a lot of 40 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:11,760 social services. Maybe we're most known for our social services. Yeah, I was going to 41 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,360 say. So in addition to you guys have regular service each week and preaching the gospel 42 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:22,440 and reach now, because I know that even our YWAM people did BBS at Salvation Army. That 43 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,880 was awesome. Yeah. And so but you guys also do a lot of like you said, social services. 44 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,720 Sure you have the thrift store, but you guys do a number of food boxes a month. Yeah, we 45 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:39,920 do. We have two food box distributions here. One that's through, we get the food through 46 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:46,360 the Alaska food bank and do, you know, commodities. And then one, our food bank at our church 47 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:54,200 is solely stocked, I guess, by people in the community and what we get from that. Since 48 00:04:54,200 --> 00:05:00,360 we have the thrift store, we also provide vouchers for clothing and household items 49 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:07,000 if people need it. And then we also have our soup kitchen that we run Monday through Friday. 50 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,480 And this is by no stretch a throwing shade at anybody who came before you. But I do know 51 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:17,400 that since you guys have been here, the Salvation Army has been more involved in the community. 52 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,440 You guys have been doing a like just a fabulous job of getting connected with the churches, 53 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,600 getting people. So we're really glad you're here in this in this city with us. Well, thank 54 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:32,200 you. No, it's plus my kid loves your kid. Yeah, yes. I was I was at the I was at the 55 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,080 daycare. Yeah. So my son was leaving. Yeah. And your daughter's like, goodbye, James. 56 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:43,520 Goodbye. She has to say goodbye to everybody and everything. It was it was pretty great. 57 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:48,600 Yeah. She's a social butterfly and she does not get that from from me. It's probably it's 58 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:54,320 over for Brian. Maybe. Yeah. So in line with our podcast, which is called Love and Context, 59 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,000 you know that we're in the middle of a series talking about women in the Bible. Right. And 60 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,120 throughout the series, we're overemphasizing women because we feel they've been deemphasized 61 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,160 in ministry and really in church history. And so what we're doing is we're going through 62 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,640 and we're trying to course correct that a little bit and kind of help people understand, 63 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:15,000 hey, God has always been about men and women working together for the kingdom of God. Right. 64 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,200 And that is not about suppressing. It's actually about lifting up and about going further and 65 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,480 further in the kingdom of God. Right. Right. Yeah. So with that in mind, we're going to 66 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:30,240 be talking about women leaders in the Old Testament. So this is not an extensive list. 67 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,000 These are just big names that we picked out to talk about. It's kind of like I was I was 68 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,560 telling you, Spencer, we're getting ready. Yeah. I was like, I feel like I'm just skipping 69 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,720 a stone across, you know, barely skipping a stone. Yeah. We originally talked about 70 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,600 doing a four episode miniseries and then we extended it out to eight. And like I was like, 71 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,800 we kind of could have honestly done a full season. Right. Based on what we're talking 72 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,120 about. Yeah. There's just so much that when you actually start looking and say, what has 73 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,800 God doing in the situation? There's just so much stuff that comes up. And so we are going 74 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,520 to be talking about a number of women in the Old Testament. But like I'm saying, this is 75 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:08,320 not extensive. No, not not by any means today. So we're going to be moving kind of fast through 76 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,880 it. And there's a number of points we're going to be hitting. But just know that that was 77 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,520 exactly how many numbers. Well, here's the deal. If I say four to five numbers, you're 78 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:23,000 going to say forty five things. Yeah. He does that. My favorite joke every time. Also, if 79 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,840 he says forty five, I was like four to five. I do it the other way, too. So the joke works 80 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:32,440 both ways. Yeah. So you have to be really careful what you say around. Yeah. So we're 81 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,480 just going to be barely skipping a stone, though. There's a lot of ground to cover. 82 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:40,080 So by all means, we encourage you to go do your own research. You're reading on this. 83 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,200 And don't just take our word for it. Right. With that being said, one of the first people 84 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,680 we're going to talk about, we actually talked about a lot last year in the in the Torah 85 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:54,720 series. We talked about Miriam, who is the sister of both Aaron and Moses. So her first 86 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:59,960 introduction of Miriam is actually when his mom takes the basket and puts Moshek in the 87 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:05,080 basket and sends him out into the river. Now, right. It does not name Miriam there. Right. 88 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:10,160 It actually says that the sister goes. But when you start to look into genealogies later 89 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,920 in Chronicles, a few of the free the other places you start to list, there aren't any 90 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,840 other daughters listed. Right. So I feel like we can reasonably ascertain that it was probably 91 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,880 Miriam that went right, even though she's not necessarily named in that story. But she 92 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,520 is the one who actually goes and she goes along with Moses when the mother definitely 93 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,880 obeys Pharaoh and definitely puts her son in the in the Nile. He did not say that he 94 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:36,160 she couldn't put him in a basket first. That's one of those things where we're like, I was 95 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,000 like, listen, we're going to obey. Right. Obey the laws of the land. But we're going 96 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,080 to definitely skirt those rules as far as we can. I see a loophole. Yeah, I see a loophole 97 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,160 that we're going to exploit for the kingdom of God here. And also, you know, for my baby, 98 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,880 because I don't want to put my baby in the river. Yeah. We know that. So then Moses is 99 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,880 picked up by Pharaoh's daughter. She's brought into the household and she says, oh, it's 100 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,760 a Hebrew baby, because of course, he's circumcised. Right. So they would know immediately that 101 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,320 he's a Hebrew. And so she's not confused about his parentage. But then she brings actually 102 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:10,280 the mother now becomes the nursemaid for Moses. One of the things we talked about in the Torah 103 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:15,560 series is we have this concept that Moses doesn't know where he comes from. And I think 104 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:18,920 that comes from movies like maybe The Prince of Egypt and some of the great movie, which 105 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:23,760 great movie, but not necessarily devil be accurate. Right. In all of its places, though, 106 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:28,240 I will say that every time we look back at that cast, it is stacked to get one is a good 107 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,640 cast. So my favorite part about that movie is like it ends with Moses coming down to 108 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,040 Ten Commandments. Yeah. And like and if you know your Bible, you're like, there's a golden 109 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,200 calf at the bottom. Yeah. That's what I was getting real. Yeah. But it looks like this 110 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,600 child on the meter is coming down. Yeah. You know, you're about to throw those things down 111 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,640 and break them. Right. But Miriam, like one of the cool things about Miriam, though, is 112 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,600 going off the going off of the assumption that she is a sister mentioned in Exodus 113 00:09:54,600 --> 00:10:00,280 two, which most scholars agree on the bravery of a Hebrew girl to go to the daughter of 114 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:07,160 Pharaoh and say, hey, I have a solution. Right. Like that that actually is a moment of leadership 115 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:12,540 from a young woman, which is something you don't actually hear or see that often. Right. 116 00:10:12,540 --> 00:10:17,400 In scripture. And so like that is huge that that right there is mentioned. Right. We already 117 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,280 get a kind of like a peek into her personality is that she's somebody who's going to speak 118 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,640 up. Right. I don't let things go. Right. Which is going to work in her favor and not in her 119 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,960 favor throughout the Old Testament. But to be fair, that's also going to be the case 120 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,120 with most of the other men in the Bible as well. We get a little bit of insight into 121 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:38,720 her personality and how she operates as a as a leader, because that's not a not a super 122 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,880 common thing, especially in patriarchal culture, especially in slavery. Like that's not necessarily 123 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,480 something you expect somebody to just step up and just speak into it. Right. You know. 124 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:52,600 And so all throughout growing up, it was likely that Moses, Miriam, Aaron all know each other, 125 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:58,920 especially since later Moses is in the desert raising or shepherding sheep. And he says, 126 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,120 well, I'm going to send Aaron with you. And he's not like, well, who's Aaron? Right. And 127 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,800 he knows where it is. And apparently Aaron knows where he is. Right. So even though he's 128 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,960 run from Egypt, like they know where he is. Right. Right. And I just think that's interesting. 129 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,900 Yeah. So I wanted to point out here. So once they've actually exited Egypt, it actually 130 00:11:14,900 --> 00:11:20,680 comes in and says in verse 20, they get to the Red Sea and Moses leads them in the song. 131 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:27,200 And it says in verse 20, it says, then Miriam, the prophet, Aaron's sister. So Miriam, the 132 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:33,040 what? The prophet. Prophet. Oh, OK. But I thought women weren't involved in leadership 133 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,040 in the Bible. Interesting. And it's not the only time that women are going to be listed 134 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,720 as prophets in the Bible. Actually, Deborah, who we're going to be talking about today, 135 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,800 is listed as a judge, but also as a prophet. And Holda, who's the last we're going to be 136 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:49,440 talking about today, also listed as a prophet. Right. As well. And then Anna, New Testament, 137 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,120 also listed as a prophet. Right. Temple as well. Yes. And then you have Philip's daughters 138 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,560 who are all listed as prophets. If you read Paul through Mediterranean eyes with Kenneth 139 00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:01,660 Bailey, he talks about how Paul addresses in the Corinthian church of 1 Corinthians, 140 00:12:01,660 --> 00:12:05,840 he tells the women that when you are leading, when you are prophesying, when you are speaking, 141 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,600 you're actually supposed to do it a certain way. Right. He's given some instructions on 142 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,440 how to do that. Well, the implication is if I'm giving you instructions on how to do it 143 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,240 properly that you're doing it, that you're doing it. Right. And which is why we also 144 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,240 have that conversation. We'll get to it in a few episodes. When we actually get to the 145 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,440 New Testament, we're talking about women in ministry because there's the other side of 146 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,080 that where people are like, well, he says women should be silent in church. OK, well, he's 147 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:30,400 just told women how to lead in church. Right. So you can't lead and be silent. Right. OK. 148 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:35,160 So once you really talking about it, it turns out that context matters. Right. You have 149 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,160 to take you have to take each book in its own context. Yeah. I mean, like, yes, it connects 150 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,560 to other parts of scripture, but you got to take it in some context of what Paul was writing 151 00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:47,760 to Timothy has its own implications versus what Paul was writing to Corinth, which has 152 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,360 its own implications. Right. And while there might be some overlap, they were written to 153 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:56,400 two different groups of people. In fact. And like to put it in a different type of context, 154 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:04,400 like if we if someone from America was to write a letter to the church in Texas and 155 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,640 then a letter to the church in New York. Right. Those are vastly different. Those are vastly 156 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:14,360 different. Yes. Right. But one of them were like, listen, stop making everything so big. 157 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:20,040 Yeah. And then the other ones like what you let people carry guns in church. And so, you 158 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,880 know, like, yeah, it's a different. Absolutely. You know, you might think you're well, then 159 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,200 you're off your rocker. Spencer, you're off your rocker. They would never assume that 160 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:33,240 you're off your rocker. Just us get to know me alone. Just just take a look later in the 161 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:38,960 story. Miriam and Moses and Aaron are having this conflict and Miriam and Aaron are like, 162 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,520 oh, does God only talk to Moses? Does he talk to us? So clearly they're having conversations 163 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,240 with God. Right. And it talks about how their leadership and their arguing with Moses about 164 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:53,240 his cushy wife. Right. Sounds like a very family argument. Right. Some conflict. There's 165 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,240 there's some conflict. That absolutely sounds like something a family would argue. Yes. 166 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,280 Af, you're real. Every family has that one in law that you're like, oh, I'm going to 167 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:08,800 have to see them at the family gathering. You know. Oh, gosh. There is this like I mean, 168 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,240 I don't know which of my family listen to this. So I was going to leave that vague. 169 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,960 So we'll be. Let's not go. Let's keep on going. Yeah. But once again, pointing out that this 170 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,200 is a patriarchal society. So the women when women are listed because they're not actually 171 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,900 that often listed in the Bible. Right. Right. So when they are listed, there's a reason 172 00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:28,000 that they're being listed. If you actually look in First Chronicle, when she's listed 173 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:34,040 in the genealogy, she's listed along with Aaron and Moses. Right. Which is very rare. 174 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,160 Like it's very rare for women to be listed in genealogy. In fact, next week, we're going 175 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,940 to talk about women in the genealogy of Jesus. Right. It's weird. Yeah. Like it's really 176 00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:46,400 weird that they're even listed. I want to actually consider one more part where it talks 177 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:54,200 about Miriam and it's in Micah six four. Shelby, can you read that for us? Micah six four says 178 00:14:54,200 --> 00:15:00,240 I brought you up out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. I sent Moses 179 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:09,120 to lead you. Also, Aaron and Miriam. OK, so I said Moses to lead you. Also, Aaron. Right. 180 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:16,200 And Miriam. Interesting. So if I'm off my rocker, so is Micah. Because as far as leaders 181 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:21,400 in the Old Testament, Miriam is absolutely by God and by a prophet said to be a leader 182 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:27,160 of Israel. Like God said, Moses, Aaron and Miriam to lead them. Yeah. It sounds like 183 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,120 they're on even playing field. Yeah. Now, obviously, when we started Torah, we know 184 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,540 that the relationship God had with Moses was different than anybody else. Absolutely. Right. 185 00:15:36,540 --> 00:15:40,680 God was working through Moses in a very unique way. We're not going to talk about it today, 186 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,800 but Zipporah has some very interesting stories. In fact, she keeps Moses from getting guilt 187 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:51,000 at one point. Right. So the women in Moses's life are actually incredibly important. Right. 188 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:56,800 Like, yeah. So this leads us into the next character. We're going to talk about Deborah. 189 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,840 So Deborah, we find in the Book of Judges, and she is a very interesting character because 190 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:07,200 one, she is a judge. So she is placed in a position of authority. Right. Right. Which 191 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:13,800 is, again, something that we often don't see in the Old Testament. And she's towards the 192 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,220 beginning of the Book of Judges and happens right after Ehud. Ehud was one of my favorite 193 00:16:19,220 --> 00:16:25,320 characters in the Bible. I loved reading this story. Love. Good old Ehud. Love Ehud. On 194 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:32,360 a side note, I found it very funny. Not funny, but interesting that they characterized Ehud 195 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:39,400 as they made it a point to say that he was a left handed man. Yeah. This is a little off 196 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,760 topic here, but I'm just going to go and point this out. So one of the reasons that they 197 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,960 say that about him is typically if somebody used their left hand for greeting people, 198 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,840 it was really uncommon for them to be left handed. Right. Because you're left handed, 199 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:54,200 it was usually your business hand. Like, so when you'd go to, yeah, that was your business 200 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,400 hand. So you actually did everything else with your right hand. So they say they extended 201 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,320 you the right hand of fellowship. Right. Well, we were talking, I was actually preaching 202 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:07,340 last week with Les who will be on here during the spiritual gifts series. But about when 203 00:17:07,340 --> 00:17:12,240 Jesus says, if somebody strikes you on your right cheek, the only way to strike somebody 204 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,480 on your right cheek is to do one of two things. You either hit them with your left hand, which 205 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:21,240 is not a good hand. No. Or you have to backhand them with your right hand. And both of them 206 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:25,240 are a sign of disrespect. And they're not actually seeing you on an even playing field. 207 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,040 And Jesus says, they do that, turn to them your other cheek and force them to face you. 208 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,080 Right. With the proper respect. Yeah. Like stand up for justice right in the middle of 209 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,680 that, because it's a very honor shame culture. Yeah. The other thing about the left hand 210 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,920 thing is this is fascinating is so culturally back in that day when they were searching 211 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:47,280 for weapons, they would typically just search on your left side. And so if you're left handed, 212 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,000 you'd have your weapon on your right side. So they typically want to search there because 213 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,520 they would assume that you're going to draw with your right hand. And so that's actually 214 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,600 a lot of scholars argue that that's how he was able to sneak that weapon into the sword. 215 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:05,800 And yeah, this was a little tidbit. Yeah. I like I don't that's that's I mean, could 216 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,320 be could not be. But yeah. So on the heels of e hood, because they had a level of peace, 217 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:15,320 right, then we have Deborah show up because there's a recurring theme in the book of judges 218 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,640 is that again, Israel did evil on the side of the Lord. Oh, those Israelites. Yeah. And 219 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,240 of course, I've heard people talk about they call it the cycle of sin. I choose to call 220 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,320 it the cycle of redemption. In other words, I tend to focus on God's goodness, not man's 221 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:32,600 failure. I like that. I think that that's a better thing for us to focus on. Yeah. But 222 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,040 again, Israel does what's evil on the side of the Lord. And so he once again raises up 223 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:41,280 a judge. So at that time, Deborah was a prophet. Right. And it says that she's the wife of 224 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,720 Lapidoth, which is just a fantastic name. Right. There's probably some Hebrew scholar 225 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,180 that's like, that's not how that name should be. And I definitely care. And he was leading 226 00:18:50,180 --> 00:18:54,680 Israel at the time. So she held court and Israel brought their issues for her to to 227 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:59,160 receive. Right. Resolve. Right. Like, so this is very, this is very normal from Torah that 228 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,440 you're supposed to bring your issues that you can resolve among yourselves to a higher 229 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,640 authority. Makes sense. She is the higher authority that they're looking for to actually 230 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:14,040 resolve these conflicts. Right. She is the higher authority. It's Deborah. OK. Yeah. 231 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,720 You're like, why are you saying that? Well, if you're in the series, you can have an idea. 232 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:23,800 So she but she's married. Right. But he isn't the one that leads. Right. He's not the one 233 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,560 that resolves the conflicts. Right. She is the one entrusted to judge and to lead. They 234 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,080 just don't underestimate how important this is. Right. That the fact that she's noted 235 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,360 to have a husband, but he's not the one who leaves. In fact, he has nothing in the story 236 00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:43,680 other than his name is shows up. Right. Right. And like, for all intents and purposes, they 237 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,440 could have left his name out. Yeah. Right. But it's so important that it's there because 238 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:53,040 it's showing that like, hey, like you're just saying. Right. Like, she's the one in authority. 239 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,960 Right. She's the one in authority in this situation. Like, God has placed her in authority 240 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,080 and she's walking with her authority. And it's important, I think, to also note that 241 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:08,240 we don't know the backstory of Lapid, Lapidoth, Lapidoth. Nailed it. Excuse me. If you don't 242 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:16,000 know, just Ron and Strawn. That's how we would. But we would assume that he supports his wife 243 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:22,920 in her God given role in society. Right. There's nothing in the text to implicate he doesn't. 244 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,680 Yeah. I think the assumption would be in the text, if it doesn't say they didn't do something, 245 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,160 that they probably did. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like if it doesn't say they're not 246 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,280 supportive, then they're probably generally supportive. Right. You shouldn't make an assumption 247 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:38,120 in the name of a marriage. No. So yeah, there's nothing in the text to implicate he doesn't 248 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:43,360 support. Either way. Correct. Yeah. Now, to re-illustrate this point, I think in this 249 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:47,480 story, one of the things that God does when he writes the story, and obviously like this 250 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:54,080 history, but like as the text is being written, is there's this guy. So in the story of Deborah, 251 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,440 somebody has come in and they're oppressing Israel. They've done evil. And so like oppression 252 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:03,400 has come. God raises up judges. So Deborah is the judge and the prophet. But Barak is 253 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,040 actually going to be the general leading the army. Right. But Barak's like, yeah, I'm not 254 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:12,040 going to go and do it unless you go with me. Why do you think? Do you think Barak was just 255 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:20,360 a coward or he just needed support? I mean, okay. So that requires a lot of like me assuming 256 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:26,320 what Barak is. So I think in the text, it's implicated that he is concerned about his, 257 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,280 the reach of his authority. I think in the text, you can, because he's concerned that 258 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,840 God will go with him if he goes, because he will win. But because of that, because he 259 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,680 doesn't trust in God's calling on his life, which seems to be from Deborah's conversation 260 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,000 in the text, because she says, because you wouldn't go and do this and I have to go with 261 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,280 you, the glory is not going to go to you. It's going to go to a woman. Right. The implication 262 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,760 of that is that if he gone into it himself, I believe that he would have gotten the glory. 263 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:56,280 But he didn't. Yeah. He was, he had the opportunity to step up and go and he didn't. And that 264 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:01,680 is why, and so Barak goes and overthrows Sisera, who is ultimately runs away and is taken up 265 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:08,080 by Jayel Haber's wife. Right. Right. This is the story of the, of the tent peg. Right. 266 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:13,440 And so Deborah leads her people in worship again with Barak, but she's also listed first. 267 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:18,560 It says Deborah and Barak. Now we don't think about that in our culture, but in Hebrew culture 268 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,760 and in the way that it's being written, the more important is always listed first, which 269 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,640 is why in the New Testament, when it says Priscilla and Aquila, that's an important 270 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,600 distinction. Right. Because if we were actually listing them in order of importance, Priscilla 271 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,800 is listed first, not Aquila. Right. It should have been Aquila in Priscilla's house. Right. 272 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,760 Excuse me. We're in the Old Testament now. Oh yeah. I know. I know. I know. I'm talking 273 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,680 about, I am covering thousands of years. So that is, that is actually really fair. And 274 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:49,920 if you actually look in, in chapter five, verse seven, it says villagers in Israel would 275 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:59,000 not fight. They held back until I, Deborah, arose until I arose a mother in Israel. And 276 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,920 then after she does this, the land has peace for 40 years. Right. Now there's a, there's 277 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,300 a downward trend that ends up happening in judges where the period of time starts getting 278 00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:10,960 less and less and less. They have peace, right? Because the cycles start taking less time 279 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:16,120 to repeat. Right. By the way, that's also just sin in your life. Like if you don't actually 280 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:20,160 deal with sin generationally, it takes less and less time for it to repeat. Yep. That's 281 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,460 one of the reasons why we talk about us as, as fathers, as mothers, as parents, our job 282 00:23:24,460 --> 00:23:30,600 is to make sure that generational stuff ends with us. Oh, that's hard. Yeah. So hard. I 283 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:35,500 mean, but we didn't get into parenthood because it was easy. Nope. And if anybody thinks you're 284 00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:40,000 getting into parenthood because it's easy, oh, good golly. I have got a surprise for 285 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:46,440 you. Right. Yeah. You can just have my kids for a couple of weeks and yeah, for a mine 286 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:52,640 in the mix. Listen, I had your kid for like a week and your kid is great. But after a 287 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:57,040 week I'm also like, well, after a week, I'm also like, this isn't my kid. You know what 288 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:02,000 I mean? Like I like kids just fine. I don't like other people's kids for extended periods 289 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:07,800 of time. You know what I mean? Like your kids are great for like two days. Yeah. After that, 290 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:13,760 I'm like, listen, I didn't birth you. I won't write a birthday either way, but true. But 291 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,480 it just gets, it gets more difficult. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. All that being said, we're 292 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:22,920 happy to watch your kid anytime you need to. Yeah. Deborah, Deborah is a really good story. 293 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,200 You know, like I always love it when, um, when I'm having a conversation with people 294 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,920 who don't believe that women are enabled to be leaders in the Bible, they're like, okay, 295 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,400 we'll talk about the old Testament and you can't talk about Deborah. And I was like, 296 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,000 okay, well then you can't talk about first Timothy. Yeah. Like, I mean, are we, are we 297 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,880 really playing this game? Yeah. We can't cherry pick, you know, you can't cherry pick the 298 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,080 things that show up in the Bible. Right. And I was like, you can look at them, can actually 299 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,680 what's going on. And also, and also by the end of this episode, you're going to be like, 300 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,440 well, you could eliminate Deborah and you'd still be fine from your argument perspective. 301 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,480 I was like, yeah, I would. Well, Deborah's there. You also need to point out, we also 302 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,240 need to point out that the story of Deborah, it's not like three, four verses. It's two 303 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,520 chapters. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. It's a significant story. Yeah. It's four and five 304 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,240 of the book of judges. Right. So it is, it is a significant story. It's not one that 305 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:15,040 you just gloss over. Exactly. Right. And so if you're taking this woman who is in prominent 306 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,320 leadership role in Israel, right. And then you're saying, oh, we're just going to gloss 307 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:23,200 over that. Even though the story is actually vast compared to some of the other stories 308 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:28,400 we cherry pick on, right. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's kind of hard to kind of hard to 309 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,760 skip over that. Exactly. So this brings us this brings us to Esther. Yeah. And so this 310 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,960 is another one you can't really skimp over. Yeah. No, it's an entire book. It's an entire 311 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,840 book. And she is featured prominently throughout it. Yeah. Yeah. Esther is really interesting 312 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:48,640 because it takes part in the Babylonian captivity, technically Persian captivity at this point. 313 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,080 Right. But we're really talking about more about it later in our later series, Kings 314 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,280 and Kingdoms, because we're going to talk about King Ossowarais, who is the husband 315 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,080 of Queen Esther. Yeah. So we're going to talk about this book more. Right now, we're just 316 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:06,500 focusing in on Esther. And we know her name is Esther, a name which actually means star. 317 00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:11,800 But her Hebrew name is Hadassah, which is a beautiful name. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Meaning 318 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,460 myrtle or tree, myrtle or tree. Right. It's a myrtle tree. It's actually very interesting 319 00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:22,740 how often in the Bible women are named after trees, which kind of makes sense because you're 320 00:26:22,740 --> 00:26:27,640 talking about bearing fruit. Right. A tree bears fruit. That women are frequently named 321 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:33,720 after trees. I believe that's the same with Tamar. He's named after a tree as well. Nice. 322 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:39,880 So in the story of Esther, there is Queen Vashti, who upsets her husband and according 323 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:47,140 to a lot of the Mishnah, is eliminated, executed. And so he goes, but then he gets lonely because 324 00:26:47,140 --> 00:26:51,560 he didn't think there was planned. Yeah. And so they do the search and ultimately Esther 325 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,360 wins and becomes the new queen. Right. Yeah. I know we're talking about Esther, but I think 326 00:26:56,360 --> 00:27:02,400 we should touch on Vashti and the boldness and the courage that she had to stand up to 327 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:09,400 her husband to say that she was not going to be a trophy wife and be paraded around 328 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:15,920 in front of people. I do have a book recommendation in here. There's a book by Rabbi David Foreman, 329 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,920 who is an Orthodox Jew. We've recommended a number of times. He has a book on the book 330 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:25,320 of Esther called The Queen You Thought You Knew. One of his statements in there is that 331 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:32,760 most of the scholarship agrees that when King Osuwaris calls for Vashti to show up in her 332 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:38,080 crown, the implication is her crown and nothing else. So that he is actually literally putting 333 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,400 her full body on display. Right. She's just like, no, I'm not going to do that. No, thank 334 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,920 you. Now the unfortunate thing that happens is because he is in front, like, cause had 335 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:52,320 she done that just to him, probably doesn't die. Yeah. Right. But the unfortunate thing 336 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,160 is it's, it's while he's doing this, these big parties where he's trying to gain political 337 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,120 favor because if you actually understand how, no, I'm going to recommend reading that book 338 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:04,720 because Foreman is going to help you understand this, but there's all these political alliances 339 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,240 that happen in Persia because you can't govern everything like with an iron thumb. You have 340 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,000 to like leave people in charge of different areas. And so even though you're in authority 341 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,760 over it, you still need these people who are like the underlords to support you. Gotcha. 342 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,840 And so like he takes it as a matter of his pride being attacked and just eliminates his 343 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:27,920 queen. Right. Now I agree with you that like her standing up to him is, is incredibly brave. 344 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:34,240 Right. It's also what gives Esther a little bit of pause later. She's like, okay, but 345 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,400 I don't know if you remember how I got this gig. Right. Like the only way you remember 346 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:43,040 how I got this gig, it was, it was kind of a sketchy situation. Exactly. You know, in 347 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:48,400 that case, like Vashti is, I really appreciate the fact that she stands up for herself in 348 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,660 the capacity because you know, Kings just get whatever they want. Right. Right. Yeah. 349 00:28:53,660 --> 00:28:59,340 So Esther ends up stepping into this position of authority and then to not beat a dead horse 350 00:28:59,340 --> 00:29:03,040 talking about the book of Esther, because we we're not going to recap the entire story 351 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,680 here. There's a guy by the name of Haman who doesn't like this guy named Mordecai, who 352 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:13,000 is Esther's uncle. Right. And because Mordecai is a Jew, Haman is like, you know what? I 353 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,080 mean, King, you really like me. Why don't we get rid of all the Jews, all the Jews? 354 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,160 Annihilation. Right. And so the King sends out the edict that it's going to happen. And 355 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,240 there's actually a fantastic connection, which we've talked about in the past between numbers 356 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:32,840 30 and the, in the story in Esther. It's the fact that when you, when somebody does something 357 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,960 and specifically somebody you're attached to. So if your husband does something and 358 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:43,000 you stay silent, it's the same as agreeing with what happens. And so to stay silent is 359 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,240 actually to affirm or agree with what's happening. That when you're connected with somebody in 360 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,720 such a way, it is your responsibility that if you don't agree with it, you have to speak 361 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:57,520 up or else you're just agreeing. Right. Mordecai actually quotes from numbers 30, which we 362 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,480 don't necessarily see in Esther, like a direct quote, but there's like all these different 363 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,360 references that come from numbers 30. Right. And Esther says, okay, well pray for me because 364 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,640 I'm going to go and talk to the King. And though then she approaches and she has the 365 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:15,000 banquet and then she, she confronts Haman on his plot. Asuwares is, is really amped 366 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,720 up at this point and eliminates Haman. But one of the things that is really interesting 367 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,760 is when we tell this story, a lot of times that's where we stop. Yeah. That's not where 368 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:29,700 the story stops. No. Because the Jews are still on the schedule to be eliminated. Right. 369 00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:32,660 So one of the things that I think is really interesting here is that Esther then goes 370 00:30:32,660 --> 00:30:37,120 to Asuwares and says, and says, okay, but what about my people? Are my people just going 371 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:43,160 to be eliminated? He says, well, here is my signet ring, my authority. You can go and 372 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:50,120 do whatever you want, but I'm not going to take back my previous command. Right. You 373 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:55,260 can go and send something out. So her and Mordecai come up with this plan that allows 374 00:30:55,260 --> 00:31:00,760 the Jews to defend themselves and add confusion into the situation where people are like, 375 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:06,120 are we supposed to take them out or not? Right. And so like it's, it's a situation where they're 376 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,680 not quite sure what they're supposed to do and provides for the situation for the entire 377 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:16,460 nation to be saved. And so Esther steps into his, her authority as queen, right. Uses the 378 00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:21,480 relationship with the king and steps out in her authority and writes a counteracting edict 379 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,840 that ultimately saves her people. Now, if we're talking about people in leadership, 380 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,480 I mean, I don't know how you get much more leadership than that. It's right there. Right. 381 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:35,640 Yeah. And the other part of the Esther story that we often skip over is that the Jews actually 382 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:40,040 fight back. Right. Yeah. At the end of, at the end of the book. At the command of who? 383 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,520 Mm hmm. At the command of Esther. Yeah. Right. They actually, they actually fight back and 384 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:49,640 take back their, take back their cities. Right. Yeah. And so this story isn't just a story 385 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:55,200 of what Esther did. It's what she empowered her people to do. Oh, like that. Yeah. Right. 386 00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:00,000 Like it's so it's, she's a vastly important character. Right. That we can't just like 387 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,000 skimp over. Yeah. And even before going to the king, it says that she fasted and prayed 388 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:11,720 before and led her people to fast and pray with her. Yeah. Before she even approached 389 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,760 the throne. Yeah. Yeah. She led her people. She led her people. Yeah. Yeah. If it seems 390 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,740 like we're being a little heavy handed, we are. And we're doing that for good reason. 391 00:32:20,740 --> 00:32:26,080 Once again, because we're trying to emphasize what is being ignored. Okay. So one of the 392 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,160 things that we talked about in the first week with, with Laura Krug is I said, not every 393 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:35,680 woman is called to be a pastor. No. Also, not every man is called to be a pastor. And 394 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,160 so what we're trying to help people understand is there is a specific calling when God puts 395 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,420 on your life for this, this role. And the one determining factor of whether God calls 396 00:32:43,420 --> 00:32:49,040 you is not your gender. Correct. That is, that is not the determining factor of what 397 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,280 you serve or what you get to serve as. Right. That is not the determining factor. And so 398 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,440 just, just so you know, as we're going through this and you're welcome to disagree with us, 399 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,180 we will still love you. It is not a salvation issue and we will just agree up in heaven 400 00:33:01,180 --> 00:33:04,600 and God will be like, oh no, this is what I meant to do. Chances are we'll probably 401 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,200 both be wrong on some capacity, but we're, we're looking at the Bible and saying, how 402 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,160 does God want us to live this out in order to push his kingdom forward? Yeah. Right. 403 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,720 So last, last, last person we want to talk about leadership in the old Testament, women 404 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,880 leadership on a throw a name out there. And are you familiar with the prophet by the name 405 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:27,760 of Holda? No, this is a story that I had glossed over. Yeah. If I'm being honest. Yeah. I was 406 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,480 like, who is Holda? I've never heard, heard this one. And I love the name. First of all, 407 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:38,360 it's like, hold on. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great name. So this is actually stepping back in 408 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:43,560 time because they're not in captivity at this time at this point. Right. So this is in the 409 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,960 reign of King Josiah. Right. Now, if you're familiar with Josiah, you know that Josiah 410 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:53,160 comes to be king when he's very young. Yeah. And, and he's thought to be a very good king. 411 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,440 And then they eventually, they bring out, they're like, Hey, we found the, one of the 412 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:01,520 books of the law. And he's like, Oh, well let's read it. And they read it. And he's 413 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,640 like, yeah, we're not doing any of that stuff. We're not doing any of that. He's like, well, 414 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,480 we need to, we need to clean house. And so he just goes through and he starts cleaning 415 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,200 house all throughout Israel. And like just, I mean, completely goes and he's like, we're 416 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,800 demolishing the high places. We're getting rid of the idols. We're getting rid of the 417 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,720 prophets. He's like, we're not supposed to be doing any of that stuff. We're going to 418 00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:25,640 start reading the word of God on a regular basis. He's like, we're just cleaning house 419 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:31,160 all the way through. So side note, the story of just, if you are listening and you're a 420 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:36,880 young person and industry leadership role, this is a great story. Yeah. Absolutely. Great 421 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:44,400 story. That's not knowing about it. Now the downside for Josiah is prior to his reign, 422 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:49,640 God has already said, listen, we've had enough Kings that are not going to do what I say. 423 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,480 So I'm going to send you guys off into the captivity because you got to learn to tell 424 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:57,420 the story. Right. You got to learn to be the story correctly. Right. And until you're going 425 00:34:57,420 --> 00:35:02,120 to do that, you're going to need to go into captivity. Right. God's already said, Hey, 426 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,160 this is coming. Now here's the interesting thing about that, that particular situation 427 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,760 and Shelby, I'm going to have you pull this up. So Josiah realizes they're not following 428 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:16,240 and they clean house. And this is the, this is the word that Huldah gives Josiah. So it's 429 00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:23,520 actually the priest of Josiah, they go and they go and get, get a word from Huldah. Right. 430 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,360 Like the person responsible for spiritual formation of the nation, the priest goes to 431 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,840 get a word from God, from a prophet. Right. Right. And this is the word it starts in verse 432 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:40,720 15. Yeah. Second Kings 22 15. She said to them, this is what the Lord, the God of Israel 433 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:47,160 says, tell the man who sent you to me, this is what the Lord says. I am going to bring 434 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:53,160 disaster on this place and its people. According to everything written in the book, the King 435 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:59,800 of Judah has read because they have forsaken me and burned incense to other gods and aroused 436 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:05,680 my anger by all the idols their hands have made. My anger will burn against this place 437 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:11,760 and will not be quenched. Tell the King of Judah who sent you to inquire of the Lord, 438 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:17,840 this is what the Lord, the God of Israel says concerning the words you heard, because your 439 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:24,000 heart was responsive when you humbled yourself before the Lord. When you heard what I have 440 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:30,000 spoken against this place and its people, that they would become a curse and be laid 441 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:35,840 waste. And because you tore your robes and wept in my presence, I also have heard you, 442 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,880 declares the Lord. Therefore I will gather you with your ancestors and you will be buried 443 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:47,280 in peace. Your eyes will not see all the disaster I am going to bring on this place. And so 444 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:52,960 they took her answer back to the King. Now that's really cool because if you know Josiah, 445 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:59,440 you know that he reigns for another, I think it's 40 years roughly. So captivity is on 446 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,680 the horizon. Conquest is on the horizon for them because they've just, we're not obeying 447 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,840 God, we're not obeying God. We're the anti-story over and over again. They're offering kids 448 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,440 to the fire, like all sorts of things that are just like deplorable. Josiah comes and 449 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:21,800 he cleans house and God says, listen, it's still coming. But because you, one guy, humbled 450 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:28,420 yourself, repented, it's not coming until you're gathered to your ancestors. You will 451 00:37:28,420 --> 00:37:37,240 not see this. God brings grace on an entire nation for like 40 years because of one person's 452 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:43,100 obedience. Now I have a question for you. This is hypothetical. What do you think happens 453 00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:49,200 if the entire nation follows Josiah's lead and repents? Maybe they don't even go into 454 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:54,680 captivity because the grace of God has always been greater than the wrath of God. Right. 455 00:37:54,680 --> 00:38:03,600 Well, we read stories of people asking God to, if just one person or two people find 456 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:09,040 favor in them that they're falling, that you would spare this city or spare this group 457 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:15,600 and God follows through. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because it says in the 458 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:21,200 word the King, King of all Judah sent his priest to go get a word from the prophet. 459 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,640 They who apparently has the authority to hear from God. And he brings this word back to 460 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:33,400 them. Josiah accepts the word and the authority that comes with it. Like that's incredible. 461 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,480 Yeah. Incidentally, it does say that Holda has a husband. Yeah. Once again, she's the 462 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,720 prophet and her husband is something called the keeper of the wardrobe. Nice. Yeah. So 463 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:45,600 I'm not like it's the only time that actually shows up in the Bible. It's keeper of the 464 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:50,480 wardrobe. So he's part of the court in some capacity and yet it's Holda that they actually 465 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:55,680 want to speak to. Right. And this is a, this is, this is such a crucial word for us to 466 00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:03,240 hear. Right. Right. Like God, God wants to pour favor into the world, but he's looking 467 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:08,900 for people who are willing to be part of the story and not against the story. Right. Right. 468 00:39:08,900 --> 00:39:11,640 And we didn't talk about a lot of people, women in the Old Testament. We're going to 469 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,920 talk about a few more next week when we talk about the light of Jesus. Yeah. But I mean, 470 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,320 like there's, there's so many women we didn't talk about. Right. You know, and not all, 471 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:25,040 not just good examples, like bad examples too, like Jezebel. Right. Like women who were 472 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:29,640 in authority in the Old Testament. Right. Yeah. Are the queen of Sheba. Yeah. Right. 473 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,920 There are, there are women all throughout the Bible that are in authority of some capacity 474 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,200 and because they're evil, we're like, oh, well, you know, I was like, okay, well, they're 475 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,800 also evil kings. Does that mean men shouldn't be kings too? Well, there's also the good 476 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:46,680 intentions of some that we've talked about, like Miriam, she got her hubris in the way 477 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:54,920 and was, God struck her with leprosy because she spoke against Moses and his wife. So even 478 00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:00,840 those in good authority who are hearing from God, it's that trickle when you get, when 479 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:06,360 sin enters in and your humaneness ends, it's a slippery slope for all of us. Yeah. If we 480 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:13,160 don't continually clean our hands and repent to God. Yeah. Well, and this is why the humility 481 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:18,960 and repentance piece is so huge. Right. Like you see that whole of calling Josiah, like 482 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:26,100 calling Josiah out, like because of your like humble nature and your ability to repent, 483 00:40:26,100 --> 00:40:29,920 this is what's going to happen. And that's one of the things that made King David such 484 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,840 a prominent king is like, cause by all accounts, like if you're actually looking at some of 485 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,760 his stuff, you're like, man, you were a, you messed up. And we're not, we're not talking 486 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,220 about dispatch you, but there's lots of things in life where you're like, well, so I was, 487 00:40:43,220 --> 00:40:47,240 so I was listening to a guy speak and he was like, he's like, let's be thankful. God could 488 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:51,840 use broken people. And then he went through the list. He's like Abraham, Abraham like 489 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,360 sold his wife or like pretending his wife was a sister, which is technically true. 490 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,720 Moses murdered. Yeah. It keeps going down and then he gets to David and he's like, and 491 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:03,440 that list is too long to cover in this sermon. That's her again. I was like, and I was, and 492 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,160 that's so, but when we constantly live that life of humility and repentance before the 493 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,080 Lord, that's when the Lord, that's, that's one of the times when the Lord shows up in 494 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:17,800 their lives where, where he's like, Hey, you recognize where he fell short and you're coming 495 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:25,600 back to me. Yeah. When we recognize our total, the gravity and our constant need for God. 496 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,760 Yeah. Really quick to sign into the women and just understanding like what God, how 497 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,480 God use them. Like we have Miriam in one of the most crucial portions of the old Testament 498 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:39,280 and the Exodus, right? Right. God bringing his people out of slavery and ultimately to 499 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,360 foundation, which is going to produce Messiah, which is going to open up a salvation for 500 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,920 the entire world, which is always the purpose. Coming back to Genesis 12, right? Like I was 501 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:53,600 going to work through the Jews to actually bring salvation to the entire world. Right. 502 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,360 And we have, we have Deborah, one of the judges being one of the first leadership, right? 503 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:04,920 Yeah. In the Bible we have, we have Holda bringing a positive word into a very dark time 504 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,920 rising up. And you know, this is the only time we hear about a word from her, but man, 505 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:14,200 what a word. Right? Yeah. Like you never know like how dramatic, like one event in your 506 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,520 life is going to be and how God's going to use you. Yeah. And then we have Esther risen 507 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:22,400 up for such an occasion as this to the scripture, right? Yeah. And I think my encouragement 508 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:27,680 as we're, as we're going to be closing down this episode is man, woman doesn't matter. 509 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:34,080 When God is, God calls into you an identity. I'm reminded of Psalm 1, where it says, blesses 510 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:39,560 the man who does not walk in the way of sinners. And it ultimately says that he is like a tree 511 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:44,200 planted beside still waters that bears fruit in its season. Well, there is, there is a 512 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:50,240 tree in Israel that bears fruit in its season and is beside still waters and large portions 513 00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:57,120 of the year, it appears dead. But then when the water hits, it springs into life and produces 514 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,400 fruit. Right. And it is faithful in the times where there's no water. And I was like, so 515 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:07,760 like, I think sometimes we trade chase God doing exciting things every day. The water 516 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,020 didn't split every day, right? The Red Sea didn't split every day. They did have manna 517 00:43:12,020 --> 00:43:16,320 from the sky every day. So like that is a little bit misleading, but yeah. But there 518 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,520 are, there are generations where they're just walking out their faithfulness and the purpose 519 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,320 of walking in our faithfulness is so that when the water hits, we spring up and produce 520 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,320 fruit. Right. So now we would say in the New Testament, when the water of the spirit moves, 521 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,240 we spring to life and fruit comes about and bounds and the kingdom moves forward. Right. 522 00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:43,480 Yeah. And being faithful in those dry times is, it's difficult, but it is so rewarding. 523 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,280 Last week we talked about the Hebrew midwives, right? How they fear the Lord and the Lord 524 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:52,960 blessed them for their action. There's actually no account of them actually receiving a word 525 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:57,920 from the Lord. Right. They were just faithful. They were in captivity. Yeah. I'm not saying 526 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,880 they didn't. There's just no account. Right. They were, but they were faithful. They were 527 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,560 in captivity and they still feared the Lord, even though there is no account of the Lord 528 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:12,760 speaking to Israelites for about 400 years. Right. Right. Like that's huge. Right. Like 529 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,760 the likelihood is that God did speak over those 400 years. Yeah. Recorded. Right. That's 530 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,160 the likelihood. Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of the things, sorry, go ahead, Sheldia. Oh, I was 531 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:28,760 going to say also we've been talking about how we are preparing for future generations 532 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:38,360 and breaking the generational purses, right? And how being faithful in the dryness, dry 533 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:48,120 seasons means also that we most likely won't see the fruit that's being, that's being bared. 534 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:53,480 Right. That we're preparing the future generations and they're going to be ones, they're going 535 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:59,080 to be the ones that are going to see the fruit and benefit from the fruit of our actions. 536 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,680 So here now, two fun things to go along with that, which we've talked about in the podcast 537 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:08,000 before, but you haven't been on before. Abraham, when he's given the promise from God, goes 538 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,040 and plants a tamarisk tree. Do you know how long a tamarisk tree takes to grow to fruition? 539 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:18,200 I do know it. 400 years. Abraham didn't plant the tamarisk tree for himself, but for a future 540 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,920 generation to come and take over that land. Right. Also talking about sowing, one of the 541 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:27,460 things that I love in the life of, we also see in the life of Isaac, his son, is that 542 00:45:27,460 --> 00:45:31,780 Isaac goes to a land and there is a famine. It's a famine everywhere in the land and he 543 00:45:31,780 --> 00:45:38,840 goes and he plants a crop and it yields a hundred times its yield. Right. When you're 544 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:43,400 walking with God, our job is to go and be faithful. It's God's job to bring the increase. 545 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,920 Right. Absolutely. It's our job to just be faithful day in and day out and allow him 546 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:54,060 to do his work through us. Right. To your point where you were talking about total depravity, 547 00:45:54,060 --> 00:45:57,080 before Jesus Christ, we had total depravity. Now we're the very righteousness of God. Let's 548 00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:03,040 go walk it out. Yeah. It's time for us to go live that out. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. So I think 549 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,280 we convinced you to be with us for one more week, correct? Yes. All right. So we're going 550 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:12,720 to close down today. Next week we'll be talking about women in the lineage of Jesus. So that'll 551 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:19,280 be Matthew 1 so you can take a look there. Yeah. We'll talk to you guys soon. Sounds 552 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:24,800 good. And that's a wrap for today's episode of Love and Context. We hope you enjoyed this 553 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,560 engaging conversation and gained valuable insights into the powerful message of love 554 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:33,160 within the Bible. We'd love to hear from you and continue the conversation. Connect with 555 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:39,400 us by sending us your questions, thoughts, and suggestions to loveandcontext at gmail.com. 556 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:44,820 We greatly appreciate your feedback and ideas for future episodes. Stay connected with us 557 00:46:44,820 --> 00:46:49,400 on social media for updates, behind the scenes content, and additional resources. You can 558 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:54,320 find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook at Love and Context. Don't forget 559 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,000 to hit that follow button to stay up to date with the latest episodes and join our growing 560 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,560 community. Thank you for being part of the Love and Context family. Remember, love is 561 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:07,520 at the heart of it all. Until next time, keep seeking wisdom, embracing love, and living 562 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,400 out your faith in the context of today's world. 563 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:16,240 And in my hubris, I was like, no, I'm right. I don't know what Ben's doing. And then I 564 00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:17,240 was like, oh no, I'm wrong. 565 00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:20,760 Yeah, because we just never know some weirdo from like Norwegian. 566 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:21,760 That's fair. 567 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:22,760 Norway is definitely a country. 568 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:23,760 That's fair. 569 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,640 That's ending up in the bloopers, by the way. Norwegian is definitely a country. 570 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,640 Poop jokes. 571 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:30,840 Go for it. 572 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,840 Because Mordecai is a Jew. Hager? Nah, Hager. 573 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:35,840 Haman. 574 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:36,840 Haman. 575 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:37,840 Thank you. 576 00:47:37,840 --> 00:48:01,840 Thank you.