Welcome to the Love and Context podcast, engaging in unscripted conversations with your hosts,
Ben and Spencer.
Whether you're tuning in from your car, your office, your home, or anywhere in between,
we are so happy to have you join us today.
Our mission is simple, to explore the Bible through a powerful lens of love.
Together we'll uncover fresh insights and gain deeper understandings of how we can love
God and love the people in our everyday lives.
So buckle up and join us on the spiritual journey as we discover timeless wisdom that
is just as relevant today as it was thousands of years ago.
Without further ado, let's dive right in.
Welcome to the Love and Context podcast with Ben and Spencer.
Again, I'm not Ben.
I'm not Spencer.
And this is Caleb.
Yeah.
How's it going guys?
Caleb is the chaplain at the jail in town.
And so he's coming with us to talk about the back half of Deuteronomy.
So we're going to have some fun with that.
Yeah.
It's like good plan.
How are you feeling?
Oh, I'm feeling better.
Have you been on podcast before?
No, this is my first one.
So it feels weird having a mic in your face, right?
It really does.
I'm a drummer in my church.
You know, I don't have these microphones staring at me.
You know, I didn't think about that.
We put two drummers on the couch.
I'm not sure how that's going to work out for us.
That will be fine.
So just a reminder, we're in the last book of Torah.
We're in Deuteronomy.
We've been in the back half and we had Pastor Sarah Harney on here.
She was great.
So we're coming into the back half of this conversation piece, these big speeches that
Moses is giving the Israelites.
One of the reoccurring themes and things we've talked about in Deuteronomy is Moses has a
very interesting perspective on some of the things that have happened in the past.
Yeah.
Not unlike us when we think back, we're like, oh yeah, this is what happened.
And then we actually read back in the story, well, not quite what happened, but kind of
what happened.
So I think we're going to see a little bit more of that today and specifically next week,
which I think you're going to stay with us for next week too, right?
That's the plan.
Yeah.
All right.
If you have not read your Bible, then I'm really curious how you got to this podcast.
Deuteronomy 26 through 30.
And we have this new fangled technology.
It's called a pause button.
You can push it and you can come back.
I would recommend not reading it while you're driving unless you have an audio Bible, which
I do recommend Dwell.
I love Dwell.
It's fantastic.
Yeah.
Though a lot of like Tara really likes the U version of the Bible.
And she said she really likes that version right there.
It's a really funny story about the U version Bible.
My dad listens to the New Living Translation.
He's been on the podcast before.
My mom hates it because she cannot stand the guy's voice in that translation.
So my dad every morning will listen to it.
And my mom just sit there.
She's like, I know this is the Bible and this is great, but this guy's voice is just something
else.
Do they know whose voice that is that speaking in the pot?
No, no.
Is it a low voice?
No, not that one.
Okay.
So there has been, you don't know this, but we've actually talked about frequently his
mom will be like, that's not your voice Spencer.
He's yes, mom, I guarantee you I recorded that with that.
And she's hopefully now that she's actually seeing the video version, she believes us.
Yeah.
That would be the hope, right?
Yeah.
I thought one of the things that I wanted to point out right away in June, already 26
chiasms.
We love chiasms.
Yep.
Now you're familiar with chiasms.
Caleb.
Yeah.
Why don't you explain them again to me?
That's a way of saying-
A Western mind.
That is a way of saying no.
He's like, no Ben, but thank you for throwing me out the spot.
Allow me to pretend like I know these things.
Of course.
So chiasms are, they're an Eastern form of writing where there is mirrored text.
Now if we were to take it into like a Western perspective, we would say there's section
A, then there's section B, section C, section D, and then we'd see section C again, B and
A and A would coordinate with A, B would be C with C. And then at the center of the story
is going to be this part that's letter D. And it's what the whole story is about.
Now it's really important that we understand that those exist in the Bible because there's
a lot of them throughout the Bible.
And most of the Jewish writers are going to write that way and ding, ding, ding, if you
guessed, most of the writers of the Bible are Jewish.
And so they're going to use this.
In fact, in first Corinthians, Kenneth Bailey has a great book, Paul through Mediterranean
eyes, where he calls it ring composition theory, but he actually points out that there's a
significant amount of ring composition theory in first Corinthians.
So not just in Torah, not just in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament as well.
A lot of times in the text, when we're talking to people about it, we say, Hey, if you start
hearing things that are repeating and you hear the same thing over and over again, you
should stop because there's probably a chiasm at work.
So in chapter 26, verses one through 11, I'm actually going to point one out for you.
One of the first things we see is God talks about the, Moses talks about the fruit from
the land.
Okay.
He talks about that at the beginning of the, in verse one, and he also talks about that
at the end.
He says that you're actually going to give God your first fruits.
And then it says that the line they're going to the land that God is giving us.
And there's this promise.
And then it says that you're actually going to be on the back end in the land that was
promised to us.
And it says that we went down into Egypt.
God brought us out of Egypt, mirroring text, right?
We were afflicted and he looked on us in our affliction.
And the center of this chiasm in verses one through 11 is this is this verse.
It says, then we cried out to the Lord, the God of our ancestors and the Lord heard our
voice.
So when we talk about the act of tithe of giving to God, it's not, it's about remembering
where you come from and also remembering the voice of God that brought you out of Egypt.
Yeah.
It's not like people are like, Oh, well, I'm going to give money because you know, the
church needs my money.
It really doesn't.
God really doesn't.
I mean, how silly is it to think that God needs your money when the guy can literally
speak the universe into existence?
Very true.
This act of tithe where, where Moses is actually talking about, you're going to set aside your
fellowship offering and your tithe for the foreigners and everybody else.
It actually is a, it is a expression of Thanksgiving to what God has actually done in your life.
How different would it be if that's how we approach tithe in general?
An attitude of, of expression of Thanksgiving.
You're chuckling over there.
I know you've got something.
We were actually talking about that in jail, that how having an attitude of Thanksgiving,
all it has a powerful impact on how it brings out the testimony of what, what the Lord has
done and when we begin to declare the wonderful works of the Lord.
So one thing leads to the other through an attitude of thankfulness.
That's what I think we've been studying and then jail over this last week for this new
member.
Yeah, that's so good.
I mean, especially when you think about in jail, often you're there because you made
some poor decisions.
Yeah.
And one of the ways to not end up back there is to make better decisions.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so developing this attitude of Thanksgiving is really crucial.
One of the things I think about often with, with jail in general is bad decisions that
is up there.
It's like, it's not like any of us are unfamiliar with bad decisions that end us in bad places.
Yeah.
I mean, that's basically what I call the speak for yourself.
I believe we call that the Christian existence, right?
On the back end of 26, it continues to talk about the tithe, but I want to, it's a little
bit different of a, of a chiasm.
First it talks about God's tithe and it says that God gets a tithe and you're supposed
to give it to the Levite.
You're supposed to give it to the widow, the orphan, the outsider.
And then it says there's a sacred portion and you're supposed to give it to the Levite,
the widow, the orphan, the outsider.
Hmm.
Crazy.
Then it says that the commands that God has given you, that you've not transgressed the
law or forgotten the law.
And then in the center, it says not eating the sacred portion while in mourning and not
went on clean or of the dead.
And then on the back end of that, it says, I listened to the word of God and I have obeyed
everything you commanded me.
So it's another little mini chiasm in here.
And the reason I think this one particularly is really cool is you have this idea of the
first thing that you do is God's tithe goes to other people.
Wow.
How you love other people.
The sacred portion goes to other people to take care of those people on the outside.
Reminder that when you go to eat the fellowship offering, you need to actually remember who
you're having it with, with God.
And so you don't have it when you're in mourning and you don't have it when you're unclean,
you come to God with the right heart, ready to actually have a, have a time with him.
It's almost like he's talking about loving God and loving other people.
Well, yeah, yeah.
There's actually, there's actually two chasms in here.
Yeah.
Did you catch that?
I was curious, which are you talking about in 26 or in 12th and 19th?
In 26 and it, well, there's actually two and one through 19 because you actually have,
you have a Miriam chasm that goes ABC ABC and one through 19 as well.
And then you also have the two different chasms that you're talking about.
So three different chasms total.
Yeah.
So you're talking about, there's a, there's a big chasm to many chasms.
And it's, it, you know, the interesting thing is when you say that, you know what that puts
at the center?
Take giving God's tithe to the other people.
Taking care of those on the outside.
So like the one thing we have is you need to learn to hear the voice of God and you
need to take care of the people around you and you need to meet with God correctly.
But then at the center of that entire idea and all of 26 is actually this idea of make
sure you're taking care of those that are on the outside.
Yeah.
Those that can't take care of themselves.
Yeah.
That's powerful.
Yeah.
Cause you got this Miriam chasm that goes on in one and two, where it's talking actually
about putting aside the first fruits for the Lord and then giving it to the priest in
verse two and three.
And then you jump down to 12 and then it talks about the same thing in the context of giving
to the people.
You have this thing where when you give to the church, it's supposed to be for the people,
for the needy in the community around you.
Right.
Now, I think a lot of times why people are hesitant with tithes is because a lot of times
that doesn't happen.
I'm not saying every church.
There are churches who take care of the poor very well, but there are also churches who,
let's just be frank, like when they get their tithe, like very little that goes out to the
needy and their community.
And not even just their community, but the community at large.
Yeah.
And I think that's why I think there are a number of churches that have like thriving
missions programs.
Yeah.
And I completely understand that hesitancy.
And actually one of the things I remember, I was invited to give the tithing message
one Sunday and Pastor Nick chuckled because I said, I said, listen, if you're not going
to give with a cheerful heart, don't give your money here.
Yes.
In fact, I was like, you should go and if you don't believe that your money is being
served while here, like you shouldn't give your money here.
That's when the pastors ran up and kicked him off the stage.
That's exactly.
No, actually one of the interesting things is the church, our church, I actually want
to brag on them is, is they're, they're very conscious of the money they have.
They're very generous, but at the same time, one of the things that I'm starting to notice
is they don't really have many money issues.
No.
Like we always have enough.
Yeah.
And I think that's a, that's a sign of people who trust in the desert.
Yeah.
Is that there's always enough.
Yeah.
There is one last little kind of mini chiasm in here.
It says that Moses says that God has commanded you to obey and do it with all your heart
and soul coming back to the Shema Lord, Lord your God with all your heart, with all your
soul, with all your might in the center.
It says you have declared you're going to follow God keeping his decrees commands and
laws that you will listen.
This is what's happening in the center.
God clear that you are his people, his treasured possession, and you will keep his command.
So we have your declaration that you're going to follow God and keep his laws and God declares
that you're going to be his people and his treasured possession.
If you follow these things.
And then it says that he will set you above and praise and honor above other nations and
make you holy to God.
Your job is to obey with all your heart, mind and soul, the Shema.
Now I thought this was interesting.
I thought you guys might have fun.
So we've talked a number of times about in Hebrew, there's not as many words in Hebrew
and yet sometimes we just translate words into English.
And because the words mean similar things in English, we just ignore them.
In this, in this verse, it talks about three different kinds of laws.
It says there are commands, there are statutes and there are ordinances.
Now if I say those to an American, they're all pretty much the same thing, right?
In Hebrew, they are not.
They're actually very different things.
Command is Sava.
It's a S-A-V-A.
It's a verb and it means to command, give charge or to commission.
I'm really glad you said Sava because I saw the T in front of the Sava.
I was like to Sava.
So no for people who are listening.
I put the pronunciation, the phonetic in there and so he read the note that I put in there
and yeah, I don't blame you.
It looks like T-Sava.
There is somebody who's listening.
Any Jewish listeners, I'm sorry.
Yeah, anybody who's really good at Hebrews listening and they're like, what is wrong
with these guys?
So it's a verb, so it's an action.
So the command is an action.
So it is implying that you should do something.
Now the first mention shows up in Genesis 2.16 where it says the Lord God commanded
the man.
This is your action.
You are free to eat from any tree of the garden.
So the expectation is that the man is going to go and eat from the garden.
It is an action verb.
You might think about Matthew 28, all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me,
therefore go.
Okay, it doesn't mean therefore go.
It's as you are going.
He's commissioning them to go.
This law is given with the expectation that action follows it.
Okay, so then we have statutes because we're going to talk about these and it is pronounced
to hoke.
Now it is a masculine noun, which means that it is a person, place, thing or idea, right?
It means that it is describing something that exists.
It comes from the root of pock and it comes from a masculine noun.
Now the root of it means to cut out, means to decree, to engrave or inscribe.
So the noun is actually describing something that's physically carved, something prescribed.
It is a task.
It's a portion.
It's an action.
Like these are the things that are like fundamental, fundamental.
Like that is what a statue is.
These are the things that you're going to do day in and day out.
It is describing your regular activity.
And then there's a word that is ordinances, which is mishpat.
It is a masculine noun.
It comes from the verb shafat, which also means to judge, govern or vindicate.
So ordinances is actually about mishpat, which is actually about judgment, vindication, and
it is judgment or justice such as act of deciding a case, making right decisions, the rights,
the privileges, the proper fitting measure.
Ordinances is actually about things going back to the way that they're supposed to be.
Okay.
Now those are, those are very different things.
One is a command to do something, to go, to actually be a part of something.
One is a list of prescribed activities or something that is going to be like a stable
truth in your life.
And then one is about restoring justice.
All laws do not mean the same thing in Hebrew.
So this is a little bit of Spencer's thought experiment, but you could out of this get,
go and cut out the evil in your life and govern yourself according to the Lord.
Sure.
Yeah.
I think you absolutely could.
And more of my point is that with in general, like these laws, a new command I give to you.
Yeah.
Okay.
A new command implies action.
Yeah.
These are statutes for you.
These are things that I expect you to do all the time.
Yeah.
These are things that are going to be engraved on your, on your walls or maybe engraved on
tablets.
Coming back to the 10 words.
These are ordinances.
These are how you're going to administer justice inside of your nation and to the nations around
you.
Yeah.
And it's really important that we point those out because I think a lot of times when we
read through the old Testament, we're like, oh, law, commandment, statute, all the same
thing.
It means if we break these, we are bad people.
That's not really what they're driving at.
God is giving us different things to try to, to prompt inside of us to be a different kind
of people.
A holy people, a set apart people.
Yeah.
So Spencer, one of the ways that I thought to maybe look at this and see, see what you
think God's commission is to go and do things that make you different and set you apart,
set you apart as holy and to administer justice to the world.
As you do that.
Yeah.
We're setting things right wherever we go.
Yeah.
Now people don't always like that, but that's part of the work of judging.
Yeah.
And this is where operating and truth and love comes into play.
Yeah.
Cause even ancient Israel, even though they were set apart, they still operated in a way
that welcomed foreigners in.
Right.
That, so it wasn't just, well, we're right.
You're wrong.
We're right in our way, which is a lot of times what we can see today in, in the Christian
faith.
And that's not from a lot of the conquest literature, which we pointed out, even when
they say, Hey, we're going to go and wipe everybody out.
Like they said, when the foreigners are with you, like literally they're still there.
Yeah.
You look at this and this is coming from a perspective of how do we include the foreigners
in this?
It's not coming from a perspective of shift everything to my way of thinking or die.
So good.
I love it.
So this, that takes us to chapter 27.
Perfect.
There's actually another chiasm in here, but I did not pull it out because I thought it
would be more fun for people to find it themselves.
Yeah.
If anybody finds that, send us an email, levincontacts.gmail.com.
I'm going to give you a hint.
It centers on verse three.
Yeah.
But in chapter 27, so Moses instructs the people to remember the laws when you cross
into the Jordan, set up an altar.
Okay.
So once you cross into the land, set up an altar.
Why?
Because remember how many times has Moses said, remember in Deuteronomy, like a thousand.
Yeah.
Remember.
And then he says, he's got, you're going to build these really large stones.
You're going to cover them with plaster and you're actually going to write the words of
the law on the stones.
Yeah.
Why?
So you don't forget.
And you fall into the exact same routine that humanity keeps falling into.
Yeah.
That we just forget the blessings of God over and over and over again.
So I can be a fairly forgetful person at times.
I've never had that cake.
No, that's laughing.
That's laughing.
But I have a friend who he takes the cake on this one where he has his-
I love cake.
He has his kids' names and birthdays tattooed on his arm.
That's fantastic.
So he doesn't forget.
It's actually really smart.
When I first met him, I was like, oh, how many kids you got?
He's like, I got three, like looks down at his arm.
And I was like, oh, how old are they?
Looks back at his arm again.
He's like, oh, there, here's the ages.
And I was like, oh, okay.
Remembering is very important.
This is kind of a silly example, but remembering is important because if we don't remember
where we come from, we're not going to actually be able to lead other people from their story
of sin to their story of redemption.
We all have different stories in our lives, but if we forget where we come from, how are
we expected to lead others?
Well, and I think there's two things that happen when you forget your past.
One is that you lack empathy for the people who are coming from that past.
Their present is your past.
I see that a lot of times in the church, right?
Somebody comes in and they say yes to Jesus and they're like, all right, here's the list
of 150 things you need to do today.
What happened to me?
I'm like, yeah.
Yeah.
Whereas we talked about a few weeks ago when Moses tells them, he says, hey, God's taking
you into this land, but he's not going to let you have it all at once.
It's going to be piece by piece.
Not because it's going to benefit God, but because if you take it too fast, you're going
to fall prey to deception.
It's actually for your benefit that it goes piece by piece.
You had a great drop in where you said we do that with people all the time and yet we
expect them to change automatically, but God's actually trying to do it piece by piece so
that over time the entire land is conquered and we don't fall to deception.
So there's empathy.
We lack empathy or we start to have these rose tinted glasses, what life used to be
like.
Yeah.
We've talked about this.
I remember with Pastor Nick and Caleb, how long have you been married now?
Just a little over five years.
How slowly you answered that.
You might need a tattoo that way.
I had to think about it for a second.
No, 2024 will be six years.
Fantastic.
Do you remember living by yourself?
Oh yeah.
Did you have a house clean?
No.
I'll let you know.
For all the bachelors out there, okay, so I own my own place.
Yeah.
Okay.
So what I would do is I would stuff blankets under the bed.
That way when I went to bed at night, I would just pull the blankets out, put them over
me on the bed.
Then when I wake up the door, I'd stuff them back under the bed.
I never had to make my bed.
It was best.
And paper plates, that worked really good.
But of course, when my wife, after I got married, when she moved into the house, she wanted
to know what all these blankets were going to do under the bed.
I said, no, I never sleep in the bed.
I always slept on top of the bed with all this.
Well, she told me I had to stop.
Well, I used to think that I was clean.
And then I got married.
And then my wife started being like, oh no, this isn't clean.
You have to fix that.
And then I went and visited a bachelor in their house and I walked in.
I'm like, why is everything filthy?
Because I've been married for 13 years now.
And I've grown accustomed to a certain standard of living.
But in your rose-colored glasses, how many people are like, you'll talk to them and they'll
be like, oh man, you know when you used to live by yourself, you could stay out late,
you could play video games all night.
I got to work in the morning.
Are you kidding me?
I'm not playing video games all night.
I saw Instagram where it was like, where as an adult being like, I can't wait to be, when
I was a kid, I couldn't wait to be an adult because I could stay up past nine o'clock
and do whatever I want.
Now that I'm an adult, I'm like, nine o'clock, I'm going to bed.
There's no shame in that.
No.
I was just laughing because I was like, yeah, that's 100% correct.
And one more thing to alienate our Gen Z listeners.
I saw one of the TikToks and they were talking about one of the TikToks.
By the way, they're going to be like, oh man, we can't listen to this guy.
Where he's like, oh yeah, you ready to go out?
You want to go out to dinner?
He's like, sure.
What time are you going to go?
He's like, I figure we should probably get there about 8.30.
PM?
Yeah.
And he's like, oh yeah, you're right.
That's probably too early.
Probably get there by 9, 9.30.
PM?
Yeah.
But here's the thing.
Okay.
But you get these rose colored glasses on things that you were really not great.
I had somebody tell me the other day, they're like, oh man, I really wish I was in my 20s.
And I was like, I don't wish I was in my 20s.
You know what was the worst about my 20s?
I had no money.
Yeah.
It was terrible.
I was in a job I didn't really particularly care for.
I have enjoyed being married to my wife for a decade.
There is a different level of intimacy that we have after 13 years that we didn't have
at five.
People have this idea, these rose tinted glasses of these things that they want.
And we actually see that happening in the life of Israel.
They're like, well, we want kings like other people have.
We want to eat pork like other people eat pork.
I mean, I don't blame them.
Pork is delicious.
But at that time, but at that point, you were very likely to get trigonosis because they're
not cooking.
We want to look like everybody else.
We want the blessings of random gods too.
And they forget where they come from.
Finding where you come from is a big deal.
I know that Deuteronomy, we've basically been saying remember, remember the 5th of November.
That's a different, that's something else.
But we've been remember, remember everything over and over again.
And the crazy thing is, is as many times as Moses says, remember, they forget.
Not that that would be a problem in the modern church.
Of course not.
You ever, Caleb, have a conversation with somebody on Wednesday and they're and you're
like, hey, remember on Sunday when they were saying blah, blah, blah.
And they're like, was I there?
Yep.
And you know, I've been guilty of that myself.
So I've been, I've been blessed to have God do some crazy things in my life.
Yeah.
Miraculous things, things that people say don't happen, but God did them in my life.
You know, the crazy thing is that the further I get from it, the more my brain tries to
tell me it never happened.
That's why I wrote in the time I wrote exactly what happened and reminded myself because
over time I forget.
And I think sometimes even we fail to remember how amazing the grace of Jesus has been in
our life.
Yeah, absolutely.
No, I have this old Bible.
I actually wrote my testimony down at the front of it on the inside just so that I would
always have that for whoever would read it when I'm not around right there because it's
grown up, growing up in a harsh life and a very starch religious background that was
a borderline cult at the age of 17, growing up in church.
It wasn't until I was 17 when I just gave it up and I just said, Lord, just take it
all, take it all.
And you know, it was very painful back then when I was, you know, from zero to 17, it
was very rough.
And you know, there's a part of me that fights those memories, but at the same time I've
come to terms with it and I have to realize I remember that so I could be the opposite
of that.
I remember that so I could look about how far the Lord has brought me from.
So copying it and referencing to it is actually a gift.
You know, there's things that maybe we can't be grateful for in life, but we can remember
what got us out of there that could keep us from going back.
Well, and to your point, you're not actually remembering with shame.
You're remembering it because of God's grace.
Oh, absolutely.
It's a victory.
Which actually plays really well into what we're going to be talking about next because
Moses does a kind of strange thing.
He has the tribes go stand on different mountains and they're going to yell back and forth at
each other.
Blessings and curses.
What do you think about one Sunday we just like line up chairs, have people stand on
them and we'll yell blessings and curses at each other?
Our church actually probably wouldn't find that super weird.
Yeah, but well, I know that the church of God probably definitely would not.
Well, it might get a little too poignant.
Well, I'm just going to say there's people that testify things that shouldn't be said
out loud toward other people.
You know, they don't mention their names.
We've had to cut the live stream a few times.
So all you pastors be careful with testimonies and prayer request time.
Speaking of live stream, this is an aside, but I promise all of you that it's worth it.
I remember a story from your guys' live stream during COVID.
It was like during the COVID times.
And it involved communion.
So great.
So I wasn't there.
I went through a period of time where I worked Sundays for two years.
So during COVID, we had to change the way we did communion.
So we ordered in, you know, those premixed little like juice, juice, like, you know,
little plastic shots.
Yeah, they've got the juice and they got the cracker thing.
Yeah.
So the bread that tastes like edible styrofoam.
Yeah, the styrofoam.
It's I don't.
All I'm telling you is that when you eat that you are not tasting that the Lord is good.
Oh, I know.
So I'm at work and I get off work, then my phone rings and it was the pastor's son and
the pastor's son, Caleb, sit down.
You wouldn't believe what just happened.
Okay.
He's like, get on the live stream.
They hand these cups out to everybody and they had a beautiful ceremony, great message.
And we all took took the bread and you know, then we start talking about the blood of Jesus
and everybody took a sip and the look on everybody's face.
Well, my pastor didn't inspect it.
And so he served the congregation the real stuff.
And so, yes.
So Amazon sent us some spiked some real wine, you know, we served the congregation the real
stuff and I was not there.
But but I have the live stream and I have the video as proof.
And if you thought you'd church scene and all, we've done it.
Yeah.
So when I was watching that I saw Kyle Quinn, he's because he's doing the music and I saw
him take the shot and immediately turn his back to the entire congregation.
And he was convulsing with laughter because he couldn't hold it.
My favorite is that your pastor, he took a swig, he looks at it and he's.
Well that was different.
It was very, it was very interesting.
Sometimes weird things happen.
So that's definitely like one of the craziest moments you've had in church.
Oh yeah.
So Moses, on the other hand, he says, hey, I want you to tribes.
I want you to go line up on different mountains.
We're going to shout some curses at each other.
Some sounds and blessings and curses.
We're not going to spend a ton of time on this.
To set yourself up on opposing mountains and each of you curses and blessings.
And it's an interesting picture for sure.
Right?
We've spent a lot of time on curses.
So I don't really want to sit on these for a really long time because I think as a church
historically we've focused too much on curses.
Yeah.
And we need to talk about what is God actually wanting us to do.
I want people to actually live for God.
I don't want to let them fill them in fear of the curses.
You know what I mean?
So in taking a look into chapter 28, Moses goes through and he says, if you follow God
and you obey him, these are going to be your blessings.
You're going to be blessed in the city and in the country.
You're going to have the fruit of your womb, the land, the herds are going to be blessed.
Your basket and your needing trough are going to be blessed.
You're going to be blessed when you come in and when you go.
God is going to grant you victory.
He's going to scatter your attackers blessings on your barn and on all of your put your hand
to blessings on the land that he is giving you.
By the way, that's a reversal of Genesis three because curses and land because of you.
Now if you obey the land is going to be blessed because of you.
There's a lot of reversal of that chapter in this section.
He's going to make you a holy people.
People will see the greatness of God.
There's going to be abundance in your family and your herds and your crops.
God's going to open up the heavens, then bless all of the works of your hands and you will
lend to many and you will borrow from none.
So you're still going to be generous.
You will be the head, not the tail.
Everybody's on top, not on bottom.
That's a good list of blessings.
And all these blessings, you know, they're not made to be contained from within.
They're made to influence the outside world around us, not just to stay in one place.
Correct.
That's going back to Genesis 12, which is you are blessed so that all nations would
be blessed.
Yep.
That's exactly.
And I think the problem is, is that when you tend to bring these blessings for yourself,
you actually betray the very thing that is actually required to receive these blessings.
Yep.
Which is that you're listening to the voice of God and you're acting within his character.
Now if you don't follow God and you don't listen to his decrees and you don't follow
his ordinances and you don't administer justice, which is something that Israel runs into difficulty
again and again, you're going to invite the opposite.
And there are a lot of them and you can go and read them.
I'm not going to read them for you today.
There's a lot of them and a lot of them are really, really quite graphic at times.
Now and the question I had, are they receiving curses because God is bringing them on him
or because he's removing his protection?
Well, in this text, this chapter in particular doesn't directly say the Lord's bringing curses
upon them.
Correct.
And I think the implication would be that the presence of God brings blessing.
Yeah.
So I would say it's more of what are you invested in, brings upon natural consequences.
I mean, I think curses is the language they used at the time.
Knowing where you're invested.
Because where you're invested is what's going to produce fruit in your life.
Well, and if you invest in selfishness, you're going to reap...
Selfishness.
Yeah.
If you invest in righteousness, you're going to reap righteousness.
Yeah.
So knowing where you're invested produces different fruit in your life.
I'm not just talking like, are you invested in the Lord or are you not?
Because there are things that you can be invested in that could look good on the outside, but
could still benefit your selfish desires.
Right.
And ultimately we want to be invested in Christ and what he has for us.
And that's going to produce the best fruit in our life.
But if we're invested in selfish endeavors, we might succeed in those selfish endeavors,
but we might burn a lot of bridges along the way.
And so there are going to be natural consequences for the choices we make and where we invest
our time and our energy.
Well, and I think sin tends to lead to sin, which leads to sin.
So you work in the jail.
How many people who land in for an offense such as stealing the car, that was the first
thing that they did that stepped out of the law?
No.
There was a pattern.
Yeah.
And unfortunately, I think that we computes safety with what we call legalism.
And I've heard that a lot growing up in a very legalistic background.
I totally get it.
And the difference between legalism and grace, I think one of the top things is that legalism
is when you make up sins along the way.
Now grace is the empowered that keeps you from, there's certain doors that we shouldn't
open.
In fact, I actually was watching this.
It was the testimony of Ted Bundy, you know, of all people.
They go into the horrors of what he did.
It all started with, you know, like looking, number one, rejection, number two, just that
little bit of pornography that wasn't even considered really pornographic.
It was just like, we saw this image attracted, but then they started to pursue it.
Then they pursue it and it got heavier, dutier.
Well, they got to fill that, so they went on to the next thing and it kind of grew from
there.
So they get in this pattern of something that happened, some of them as young as five years
old.
It just takes one trip over that line.
And to your point is you rarely, it's the, what actually lands you in jail is the offense,
a hundred percent.
Like you stole a car, you land in jail because you stole a car.
The reason you stole the car happened decades before.
It's not something that happened overnight.
I'm not saying it can't, but rarely is that actually the case.
There's usually something that happened.
I was actually just reading the story of an evangelist and I forget what the name is.
He was talking about his experience.
He grew up, was in the army, got discharged and he went on a, like a thief spree across
the U S and ended up in jail, found Christ in jail.
But he was talking about when he was a kid and he was trying to read and he was recounting
this story, his dad, he said, I'm going to waterboard you if you don't say these words.
Oh, five years old.
Five years old.
What kind of damage are you causing to your kids?
And until you actually uncover that, I mean, like you're, you're going to have a lot of
this behavior that keeps cropping up over and over again.
It's one of the things that psychologists have been trying to deal with for a long time.
God absolutely will change everything about your circumstance, but you also got to do
the work to dig up your past.
Yeah.
Uproot your past because it's been there for a long time and he's going to fix every hurt,
but he's not going to be what all it wants.
He's piece by piece, otherwise it's going to overwhelm you and you're going to be deceived.
We're really good at cutting down the tree, but it's getting to the root that where we
have struggled with in the section on curses.
There's actually another little mini-chaos.
I'm not going to do the whole thing here, but there's a chaos in the back half and it
talks about how bad it's going to be.
And it culminates with verses 53 through 57.
If you want to see some really difficult verses, go read those ones.
But it talks about a family literally devouring itself, literally, not figuratively.
The idea of the chiasm is that your enemies will conquer, the foreigner will become greater,
the land will be devoured and destroyed, the crops will be devoured and destroyed, the
animals will be devoured and destroyed, all down to the family itself being devoured and
destroyed.
And you see this, it's not one piece, it's one piece and then another piece and then
another piece and then another piece to where there's total depravity, this total destruction.
And it's not a pretty picture and it sounds, it's a heinous and it's not how it's supposed
to be.
But that is what sin is.
And we have to have grace with people because they get caught up in that.
Because in chapter 29, guess what happens?
There's the renewal of the covenant.
Blessing and cursive language sets up this renewal of God's covenant with the people.
There's this new generation of renewal of the vows and Moses forewarns them that if
they don't trust God and follow after God, but instead they chase all these gods that
are around him, they're likely going to end up in the exact same place where they're having
trouble trusting God again.
And it centers on this verse of hope in verse 13, which says this, confirm you this day
as his people, he confirms you this day as his people, that he may be your God as he
promised you and as he swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Because God wants to bring this about in your life.
He wants to partner with you with your story.
Sin is waiting at your door, waiting to devour you.
But you got to conquer it.
So one thing that's never mentioned in scripture, and this is actually kind of fun little side
note is because I've heard this in church a lot growing up is, oh, forgive and forget.
It's like the forget parts actually never mentioned.
Correct.
Don't hold it against them.
Absolutely.
Like if you forgive somebody, don't hold that sin you've forgiven against that person because
then you haven't forgiven them.
But you need to remember, you need to remember where you came from, where they came from.
That's going to allow you to have grace with them too.
Yeah.
And you don't have to put yourself in that same situation again for whatever happened.
Well, I think I think where people get it is they come from the Psalm where it says
as far as the east is from the west, God far has got removed it from your sin.
And then there's a there's a verse that talks about it slipping into the sea of his forgetfulness.
Once again, that's not what they're really talking about.
No, it's that the God's not holding it against you.
Yeah.
My thing that I love about chapter 29 and into 30 is that even in your failure, your
sin and your darkness, because verses 53 through 57 are pretty dark.
There is hope and it shows up in chapter 30.
God says that you're always welcome back.
You're always welcome back.
And thank God that is the case.
Yeah.
All right.
So I want to point out a few since we had some fun with these earlier, point out a few
mini chiasms here in chapter 30.
Let's just take a look here.
So in verse one, it says, if you take to heart these laws, wherever you are dispersed, and
then take a look at verse three, it says from the nations you've been scattered to.
Then in verse two, you have and you return to God.
And verse three, it says, God will restore and bring you back.
And the right in the center, it says, with all your heart and soul, the Shema.
Once again, now in this larger version, take a look at verses one through three is when
you remember and follow with your heart and your soul.
Verses verse 10, it says, if you listen to the voice of God and follow with all your
heart and your soul.
Verses three through five, God will turn it around and bring you back.
Now obviously this is not a literal quote.
This is me summarizing these sections guys.
Seven through nine says, curses will go away and you will be brought home.
And it centers on verse six where it says this, the Lord your God will circumcise your
hearts and the hearts of your descendants so that you may love him with all your heart
and with all your soul.
You know, it's really interesting how it says that the circumcision of the heart, you know,
the very first martyr, Stephen, when he gave Google that.
No, don't do that.
That's a callback to a few episodes ago.
I may or may not have accidentally told people to Google it.
Okay.
You know, it's really interesting that, you know, the very first martyr for Christianity,
you know, Stephen, he gives this dynamic speech and he takes them to the beginning, coming
out of Egypt when they rebelled against God and all these different things happened about
one thing they did to the God's messengers, the prophets, but they did no harm came to
him after he gave this speech.
But right before they took them out and stone them, which means throwing rocks at somebody
till they die, everybody, not the other thing.
I mean, it means the other thing too, but in this context.
Yeah, but it's amazing that before they took him out and stone him to death, it says, and
they were pricked within their hearts when they felt that that's when they went crazy
and they took him outside.
So the Holy Spirit was doing a work, but the resisted the work that the Holy Spirit was
doing.
They were circumcised in flesh.
Yes, but it added up to a heart issue of this of a spirit supernatural effect that only
God could bring about if we will let them.
So they carried the physical sign of the covenant, but they didn't carry it in their heart.
Remember obeying coming back to God is always available.
There's no place that you can go that's too far and no curse too great.
It can't be lifted.
I'm also reminded with this whole idea of you're in love with our heart.
And you said that they were pricked in their hearts.
Jesus makes a statement when they're like, well, by whose authority are you making this
to claim?
You look in the scriptures for God and I'm standing right in front of you.
If you knew the father, you would know me.
He's very clear with them.
He says, if you understood what Torah was about, you would recognize the guy standing
in front of you, which is why a lot of Jews did recognize who Jesus was.
They just didn't recognize him as a son of God because I mean, I'm just gonna be real
honest with you know, it really understood what that meant until Jesus came back to life.
Oh yeah.
Like they didn't understand what that meant, but they did recognize him as the Messiah
that God has been planning for the entire time.
Another call back to the New Testament.
I love this in verses 11 through 14.
He makes a comment.
He says, the commands aren't hard to reach.
And the back half, it says they're reachable by you.
Another mini chiasm says they aren't in heaven nor are they across the sea.
The word is very near to you.
It is in your mouth and in your heart so that you may obey it.
It reminds me of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which I love to, you know, I'm a little bit
of a rabble rouser.
I mean, hopefully at this point you guys have kind of figured that out.
I'm a little bit of a rabble rouser, but I had somebody tell me they're like, we just
need to preach the gospel.
I was like, yeah, the one Jesus preached.
Just so you know, if I ever jump on that quickly, I'm probably setting you up.
And they said, they said, yeah, the gospel Jesus preached.
I was like, what was that?
And then they said that God came to save sinners.
I was like, have you read the gospels?
Because he never says that.
That's not what he's talking about.
In fact, the gospel, the eugenic on the good news that Jesus preached was that the kingdom
of heaven is here and it's time to come back.
And then through his life, death, burial and resurrection and empowerment by the Holy Spirit,
we are changed and able to live into that kingdom.
That's the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And to go back to the forgiveness of sinners piece.
That's the doorway.
That's there's an that's the entrance right there.
Yeah, that's supposed to lead you into restoration and to redemption, into a restored relationship
with God where he is over time changing your character.
Yeah.
And oftentimes we just stop at the forgiveness of sinners.
This is what it's about.
It's about forgiveness of sins.
Yep.
That's part of it.
A very important, very important part.
Don't get me wrong.
Don't don't mishear me listeners.
It's very important.
But the kingdom of heaven is near.
Jesus came to restore a broken world to him.
Forgiveness is part of that.
But the restoration takes time.
All right.
Well, and how often are we like we want to talk about the door, Jesus being the door
for forgiveness.
And then we're like, let's hang out at the door.
Well, like, here's the thing.
My front door is really cool.
Uh huh.
You know, it's way cooler.
My kitchen where I make my food.
Uh huh.
Like there's there's a whole life that a lot of Christians never walk into because they're
they're at the door and the door is so important because it's how you get in and out.
All right.
Well, we we live in Alaska, right?
So if if if I invited a bunch of people over to my house and said, hey, come stand out
side at the front door.
We're recording this in November.
They probably be like, no, no, we're not going to do that unless we're welcome into your
home at some point.
Yeah, I will walk through that.
Yeah.
And I will engage with the life inside.
Yeah.
That's so good.
I think sometimes we forget that we're being invited to a lifestyle and not just a forgiveness.
Yeah.
Like forgiveness is part of that.
Mm hmm.
Jesus is my savior.
But he's also my lord, which means that I'm going to follow him and follow his commands
and follow his leading wherever I go.
Yeah.
And it's not just about being saved.
It's actually about service to my savior.
Yeah.
About living a life that's actually meant to bring God's lost kids home.
Yeah.
Jesus told us time and time again, if you love me, you will keep my commandments.
You know, when you love somebody, you'll do what they want to get close to them.
Well, and so one of the best imageries I've heard of sin and some of you are going to
need, Ben's heard this one before.
Oh, no.
I don't know if you've heard this one, but I was at a youth conference one time and the
speaker said, yeah, living with sin is every time is like every time you have to take a
dump, you just take a crap in the middle of your living room and leave it there.
And then over time that piles up.
Oh.
Piles up.
House stinks.
And then someone comes knocks on the door being Jesus and is like, Hey, let's, I'm going
to help you take care of that.
Yeah.
And what the, what the speaker said is he's like, it doesn't mean that Jesus is going
to come and it's all going to be gone instantly.
Yeah.
But he's going to be there and he's going to help you clean that up.
Yeah.
Clean that up.
And then once that gets cleaned up and you realize this is what life was supposed to
be like in my house, in my home.
Wow.
It was not supposed to be the filthy, rotty, stinky mess that it was.
Right.
It's so good.
Yeah, that is good.
So to finish up what Moses is saying in chapter three, he comes before them and he says, Hey,
listen, you got two options.
You can obey God and you can follow him.
And he's going to accomplish all of this things to all these things through you, or you can
go with Adam.
Remember you're the weakest by far.
He's told them this so far.
There's nothing particularly special about you except the fact that God loves you.
And he doesn't walk with you.
So if you go without him, you're probably going to get crushed.
But there is no sin too deep, no transgression too far that God won't bring you back.
But you've got to want to come back because he's not going to force you.
You might say that he stands at the door and he knocks.
Yeah.
And, and he invites you into, into a different kind of life.
That's powerful.
All right.
So we're going to wrap up our episode right there.
If you are watching us on YouTube, I apologize.
We were like, Hey, you know what?
Let's add 50% more man face on this podcast.
I'm sure that your wife loves you and my wife loves me, but not everybody who's looking
at me is like, Oh, that's a handsome man.
Oh, you know, the camera hasn't broken yet.
Oh, not yet.
Not yet.
If you, if you want to interact with us more, you can email us at love and context at gmail.com.
We have our Q and a coming up.
So if we've talked about something, you're like, Hey, I wish you'd talk a little more
about that.
Send us a note and we'll talk about that in our Q and a that is coming up actually in
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It's actually the one after you.
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Not Google, not Google, not Google.
Yes.
Yeah.
Don't Google that.
All right.
Thanks guys.
Have a good one.
That's a wrap for today's episode.
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That's always the thing that I like to, by the way, one of the bloopers that I left off
last episode was you going, like right at the beginning of the episode.
Say hi, Caleb.
Hey guys, how's it going?
Say hi closer to your mic.
Hey guys, how's it going?
I will say that correctly.
And then it says of the got or you have an interpretation for those tongues.
Ben, I do not.
I do.
It's called gibberish.
Okay, go on then.