1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:06,600 Welcome to the love and context podcast engaging in unscripted conversations with your hosts Ben and Spencer 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:13,600 Whether you're tuning in from your car your office your home or anywhere in between we are so happy to have you join us today 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:20,120 Our mission is simple to explore the Bible through a powerful lens of love 4 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:28,600 Together will uncover fresh insights and gain deeper understandings of how we can love God and love the people in our everyday lives 5 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:34,080 So buckle up and join us on the spiritual journey as we discover timeless wisdom 6 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:41,460 That is just as relevant today as it was thousands of years ago without further ado. Let's dive right in 7 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,320 Welcome to the love and context podcast. I'm Ben. I'm not Ben 8 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,360 Yeah, thank you people have heard you say that like a thousand times at this point, but it's still funny 9 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,240 Yeah, and we are joined by the resident mother pastor pastor Sarah Harney 10 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,600 So we're gonna play a game today Ben doesn't I think Ben knows if Sarah doesn't know this though 11 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:05,920 But Sarah usually gives Ben and I mom looks like 14 times every time she sees us cuz we usually 12 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,480 Cuz we usually fair they're well deserved 13 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:08,640 Yeah 14 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:15,080 we usually we usually deserve it and so so there might be times in this podcast where we say something and Sarah's just like 15 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,680 All right, and that's just normal just know that it's all from a place of love 16 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,500 Well, you'll feel here when she gets really upset. She'll start naming names, which will probably say like Richard 17 00:01:25,500 --> 00:01:28,200 And then all her kids names will come out and then finally it'll be better 18 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:36,640 Yeah, I guess we're like 50 names no you guys are at least after the chickens after the chickens perfect after the chickens perfect 19 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:42,720 Sure, where am I in your importance? Well, there's my husband my kids my church my family my friends my chicken 20 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,880 My chickens then 21 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,480 Oh, that's so good, all right 22 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,060 Well, you were jumping in to mid to do autonomy with us 23 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,400 Yeah, and we've been going through the Torah series and we're in the last book of the Bible myself last book of the Bible 24 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,360 It's the last book of Torah not of the Bible 25 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,740 and we thought this would be a fun one because other specifically talking about worship and 26 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:11,160 You are in charge of worship out of your church. I am so I've been doing this whole worship leader and 27 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:17,880 I've been pastor now for the last 14 years. Yeah, you don't have to be scared of saying pastor here 28 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,320 They're fully aware that we support women. Okay. All right. I just yeah, you know 29 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,720 I just wanted to just say there may be a few listeners who are a little uncomfortable with that and they will get over it 30 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,940 Mm-hmm. They will love you anyways, even if they disagree with you. All right, and if they don't we'll have words sounds great. Yeah 31 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,640 Like we're always tell people we're okay with disagreeing. We're not okay with not loving people when we disagree. Mm-hmm 32 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:41,920 It's just so interesting. Oh, I'm gonna go on tangents. Yeah, that's okay. No script. All right 33 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:45,000 I'm just this is literally an unscripted conversation. So you go right ahead 34 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,360 it's just so interesting to get to a place where you know, people are like you have a call in your life and we see it and 35 00:02:50,460 --> 00:02:54,440 We want you to do it and then you get to a spot where you're like, okay, I'm here and 36 00:02:55,080 --> 00:03:00,720 Now I'm a pastor. So call me what my training my education everything is done and 37 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:06,280 It's so interesting that the word pastor freaks everyone out and I was doing this stuff before 38 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:12,680 Yeah, I became licensed. Well, I think that a lot of it comes from misunderstanding of what these rules actually represent which 39 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,840 Spoiler alert for season two Sarah pastor Sarah is gonna come back and we're actually gonna have a talk about 40 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,160 Women in the Old and New Testament and also in ministry today. So that's gonna be a fun little mini series 41 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,160 We're doing that a lot of people be like 42 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:30,420 They're gonna use it as cannon fodder to come against me and I'm like listen if you that's the straw that broke your back 43 00:03:30,420 --> 00:03:32,420 I got a lot of other straws for you 44 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,080 our 45 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:41,200 Responsibilities make content you listeners you can comment that's fine. You make all the comments you want. We're so gonna make content. Mm-hmm 46 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:47,280 Yeah, alright, so we're gonna be in chapter 12 and so just kind of walking through chapter 12 47 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:53,800 It starts out Moses he says hey when you go into the land, you're gonna destroy all the places of worship, right? 48 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,840 There's these things they call the high places 49 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,540 They're worshiping on the hills and the spreading trees where the other people are worshiping their God 50 00:04:00,540 --> 00:04:05,160 You're gonna go and break their altars smash the sacred stones burn the ashra pulls in the fire 51 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,320 And cut down the idols and wipe their names from the place, right? 52 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:15,800 one of the questions I I I've heard frequently people ask him about this is who it actually is Asherah and 53 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,680 Asherah is usually worshiped in 54 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,000 Yeah, it's fertility, but she's usually worshiped in combination with Ba'al 55 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:30,380 because Ba'al is about like the harvest and food and growth and there's a lot of mythology about that 56 00:04:30,380 --> 00:04:34,360 Like Asherah entices Ba'al and like when he brings the rain 57 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,960 It's actually like the seed of all that comes out like that's actually the the worship that they do 58 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:46,400 So Asherah and Ba'al are worshiped together and so hence like Asherah's shrine is actually a pole and it is a phallic symbol on purpose 59 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,980 Yeah, yeah, and so not surprisingly God's like hey, you should get rid of those right? 60 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:57,240 Right, maybe you shouldn't have those around anymore to the fair point is God's been saying over and over again 61 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,680 Hey, each of trusted in this God for the water and this God for the harvest and yeah 62 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,200 It's like stop trusting other gods with your fertility 63 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:09,080 Yeah with your harvest with your wealth you need to trust me. It's gonna be a reoccurring theme throughout Deuteronomy 64 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,560 Moses saying remember 65 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:12,680 remember 66 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,680 Remember what's going on here? 67 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,280 right and 68 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:19,240 Then he specifies not only you need to destroy them 69 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:24,880 But also you need to not worship them in the same place or the same way like don't worship God in the same place 70 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,520 Or in the same way as where they were being worshiped because how you worship matters 71 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,920 Mm-hmm, right and so he says, you know, you're gonna put your temple where God says to put it 72 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:39,760 Yeah, not where you say to put it and you're gonna bring your sacrifice your ties and all your offerings to this place in this central 73 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:45,280 Location of worship now, why would that be important? It's really about community, right? Worship is about community 74 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:48,120 It's not just about relationship between man and God 75 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,960 It's also about relationship between man and man and woman. Sorry 76 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:58,540 I meant man as in humanity. Thank you for so I should specify that you're welcome 77 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,320 first mom look 78 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,680 Doesn't quite work 79 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,120 I don't even know what he said. I said that was the first mom look first mom look right there 80 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:15,920 You have to be back like a little jar and I can actually run a tally like when I'm when I'm editing the video every 81 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,920 That's number two 82 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,400 So 83 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:26,880 Where you worship matters and how you worship matters and and one of the things that we specified as we were going through Leviticus is 84 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,000 The sacrifices are actually an act of fellowship with God 85 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:34,200 Yeah, and they're actually an act of Thanksgiving and you're meant to be doing them in community 86 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:35,720 You're not meant to be doing them alone 87 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:41,880 Now a lot of worship a lot of times people have taken worship and even if you take worship to its modern context 88 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:43,920 We've made it very personal 89 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,400 Which which I don't think is a bad thing 90 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,000 But it's also communal right? 91 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,560 Like we should worship God individually and personally, but it's it's also a call to be together 92 00:06:55,320 --> 00:07:02,040 You know actually tomorrow night. We're celebrating as an all-city worship night, right? Yeah, I always love those 93 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,360 They're great 94 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,880 Yeah moments of unity. Yeah, the way you said that with your face 95 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,400 It definitely tells me that the stress is not getting to you 96 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:16,040 Yeah, there's no stress in that in that situation at all, but it is actually 97 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,160 Preparation for the event but once you're there 98 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,640 You are always so thankful to be there. It's so good 99 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,480 because I think what happens when we worship in community is 100 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,680 We're getting a taste of what we're supposed to be experiencing for the rest of eternity 101 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:37,560 Yeah, that we're gonna be in the throne room of God and we are going to be with 102 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,240 thousands of Saints 103 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:45,000 Crying out to God. This is not going to be something that we're doing alone, right? 104 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,520 Exactly every tribe every nation every tongue 105 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,240 Crying out. Holy holy is a lamb. It's gonna be good. It's gonna be amazing 106 00:07:54,240 --> 00:08:00,240 I can't like they like the hair on my arms want to like stand up because I'm like I can't fathom it 107 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,040 and it's such a 108 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,880 It's an invitation to community too, right? 109 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,080 It's just this invitation like the picture that you're speaking of actually comes from Revelation and other places 110 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:17,160 But specifically the most common one people quote is from Revelation. It's every tribe every tongue lifting up and it's just 111 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,760 You know, even though as we speak in our own languages, like we're all just together and we know exactly what we're saying 112 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:29,160 Mm-hmm. I know and I don't I don't get to have my Pentecostal card yet because I don't speak in tongues 113 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,140 Well, neither do I and I go to a Pentecostal church 114 00:08:31,140 --> 00:08:35,640 So that makes it feel and I never really felt like it should be a determining factor 115 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:40,720 But it is like a bone of contention in me because I'm like God like I'm not afraid of it, right? 116 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:46,360 I've seen it. So why why Holy Spirit have you chosen not to impart this gift to me? 117 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,520 Well for reasons we won't get into it on this podcast. I actually have some some thoughts about that 118 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:51,880 I'd love to share with you sometime 119 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,480 But actually it's funny that you say that because you're definitely plugging in other miniseries 120 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,240 That's coming up in season two where we're actually gonna talk about the gifts of the spirit 121 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:04,000 Well, I just did a whole big class on that at our church. Yeah, you want to come back as guest I taught so yeah 122 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,720 Yeah, for eight weeks. Let's do it. We're gonna we're gonna talk about the gifts of spirit 123 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,440 And how do you approach them as both a Pentecostal and a non Pentecostal and how do you like? 124 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,440 So we walk with this because we want to be sensitive to however people walk with it 125 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,360 We you're way too good at conversating. So we're gonna have to get back into the topic here. Yeah 126 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,860 So the idea of of it's all in one place because it's about community it's about coming together with God 127 00:09:25,860 --> 00:09:31,400 It's about it's about recognizing other people that you're supposed to bring your tithes and everything to the presence of God 128 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:36,800 And you're actually supposed to eat your tithe with God. Yeah, right. You're actually supposed to consume it right there 129 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:42,000 It's for the Levi it's for everybody else and it's for everybody else who is part of your family. You're doing it together and 130 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,960 Blessing is an active participant role at all times. Mm-hmm, right? 131 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,860 So you're actually being an active participant in what's going on? Yeah 132 00:09:50,860 --> 00:09:57,600 Yeah, and the presence this relationship if you start to look at the sacrificial system and you say oh, it's just about appeasement 133 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,600 You miss everything 134 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:04,080 Because God is not going to be a the point is not to appease God is to be to relate with God 135 00:10:04,460 --> 00:10:10,040 Right appeasement is something else, right? Right and it is definitely a product of what happens 136 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,080 But if you run around with this idea of appeasement, then we got a bunch of Christians who are running around 137 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,480 Oh, I hope God doesn't get mad at me. I better like try to earn his forgiveness 138 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,120 Well, that's not really what he wants. He wants you 139 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,080 And he wants all of you 140 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:28,680 Yeah, I think that there's something that happens when we get this picture and I think it's it might be verse 7 141 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:33,440 So it might be Deuteronomy 12 or 7 and it talks about why this is so important 142 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:40,360 It talks about the blessing that takes place when you're actively there and you were just saying that but it tells us that it's a feast 143 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:48,120 so we get we get these pictures of he prepares a banquet table for us in the presence of our enemies and and we get 144 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,120 this picture of a feast and 145 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,680 When you think of a feast, what do you think of it's a celebration, right? 146 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:59,520 You're eating. Yeah, yeah, you're stuffing your face and you're laughing and you're telling jokes 147 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:05,840 and I think that we get this picture that Moses is trying to tell the Israelites is that 148 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,640 When we're in the presence of God, it's a fullness of God 149 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:15,760 That means that like all the parts of us all of our senses are being engaged the shekinah glory in that 150 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,640 when we come with this anticipation that 151 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,960 worship is active participation and his blessing is that he wants me to be 152 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,880 Seeing him and touching him and scriptures say taste and see that I am good 153 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:36,480 Like that banquet table is set with so many yummy things and he's like saying look. I'm not just one dimensional 154 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:42,520 Yeah, there's so many facets to me when you when you think about the taste and see that the Lord is good 155 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:47,640 I don't know how many times I've been at communion and somebody has like the wafer is nastiest 156 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,880 Styrofoaming is bread and I'm like listen if this is the body of Christ 157 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,600 Like there's no way there's no way this is the body of Christ. You know what I mean? 158 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,080 I actually like to do this is a little aside for people listening 159 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,320 I actually like to do communion with Nilla wafers because I really like to taste and see that the Lord is good 160 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,320 Oh my Lord, that is 161 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,360 I remember one time we if we're gonna use wafers, let's use Nilla wafers 162 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,760 I remember one time we were doing communion at church and we sent the church intern out 163 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:15,560 Yeah 164 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:19,440 To get communion supplies and this was like right before service because we realized we're out we're like, alright 165 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,560 So go to the grocery store grape juice bread. He's like, okay, great 166 00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:26,760 He came back with dr. Pepper and cheez-its perfect 167 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:32,600 And so we did communion with the whole church with dr. Pepper and cheez-its. Right? Well, let's be honest. It is a symbol 168 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,360 Yeah, right. Yeah, so like I was like even if you don't have 169 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:41,160 Drink juice and crackers or whatever. I was like whatever you got. It's actually about the heart you've been in the pastor 170 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,160 We're not worried about transport 171 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:48,000 Yeah, the senior pastor did a great job handling that situation and I was like, okay 172 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:53,040 Yeah, this is like talked about the symbolism and all that but it was like one of the things where it was like, alright 173 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:58,160 You know, I bet you that was probably one of the more joy-filled communions that you guys have had. Oh probably 174 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,160 Oh, yeah 175 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,160 Dr. Pepper's of Jesus. Yes 176 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:07,280 So he Moses actually says a couple of times. He says he keeps saying this in chapter 12 177 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,480 He says that you gotta you gotta make sure that you eat you meet where God wants you to meet 178 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,880 You got to make sure you meet where God wants to meet now in John chapter. I believe it's four 179 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:20,240 There's gonna be a conversation with a Samaritan woman at a well where they have a conversation about where are we supposed to worship? 180 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:26,000 Mm-hmm, right and Jesus addresses this because he says you're not actually gonna be worshiping on a mountain or in Jerusalem 181 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,000 It's actually going to be in spirit and truth 182 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:33,440 Which was always the intention the point of having a specific space in in the Old Testament 183 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:39,440 And why you got to put this into context is because you're trying to be different than all the other nations. Mm-hmm. It's not about 184 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,680 Simplicity, it's about relationship. It's about it's about the relationship 185 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:49,920 It's about it's about devotion togetherness making sure you do this is what there's a reason why there's pilgrimages every year, right? Right? 186 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,920 You're actually supposed to go and be with people. I did think it was interesting 187 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:54,640 They noted in here 188 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,080 He says that you can in case you have too much stuff you can actually eat all you want in your town 189 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,280 But you can't eat what's God's right? You got to go to the place you're supposed to go 190 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:07,640 Yeah, and then probably the favorite piece here for somebody who's serving in a priestly role is don't neglect the leviates, right? 191 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:13,440 Right. We're just coming out of pastor appreciation month and hopefully you guys were I mean 192 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,120 I know you don't take we only we only appreciate in October and then we're done. Yeah 193 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:24,480 One month a year which side note i'll call him out because I know he listens pastor nick was gone for three weeks 194 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,560 Yeah pastor persian yeah, he uh, he came back the last sunday 195 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,880 He was flying back from hawaii because he had a work trip over there, which I mean he was suffering he popped his head 196 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,760 Yeah, he popped his he didn't he wasn't even there the whole time 197 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,640 He just popped his head in the last sunday popped his head in the last sunday 198 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,560 And then he was like trying to stay out here in the four-year and so i'm like no no no no 199 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:47,440 And I moved him all the way up front and we recognized him and he was he was less than enthused with me 200 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:48,320 But he got over it 201 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:48,640 All right 202 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:53,920 I just feel like I should just speak out for my brother nick here and if there are like any supporters that are like 203 00:14:54,560 --> 00:15:00,320 Nick supporters like chime in let let ben and spencer. Hey, they have been they have listened to pastor nick on here 204 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,320 They know that we are pastor nick supporters 205 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,240 We would not have him on the podcast so much if we did not support him. Yeah 206 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,920 But that's fair. That's fair. I just just making sure that we're we're being kind benjamin 207 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,160 Well, and yeah exactly. Well, you got the full name. You got the full name treatment right there 208 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,560 You just wait you just wait. She's gonna be like benjamin edward 209 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:24,080 It's coming. It's coming. By the way, I think that's four but I i'd have to go back into the chat 210 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,160 Let's get back on track. Uh, so don't neglect the levites once again coming back to leviticus 211 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:33,280 Why are the the priest important because the priests are going to teach the entire kingdom how to be a kingdom of priests, right? 212 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:40,560 This this is carried forward with paul in ephesians when he says that the pastors the teachers the apostles the prophets they're meant to equip 213 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,560 the body for service 214 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,600 Right, which I always remind people they're like they're like well, you know 215 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,680 I need somebody who knows how to tell people about jesus listen 216 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,320 Your evangelist is supposed to teach you how to talk to people about jesus 217 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:56,480 Your pastor teaches you how to care about people your prophet teaches you how to speak truth, right? 218 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,760 Your your apostles teach you how to bring heaven to earth 219 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:07,040 Yeah, right and though it's not for them to do it's for them to equip the body to do as as saints, right? 220 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:12,240 Right, that doesn't mean of course like you have a responsibility to do that as well because you're also a saint 221 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:19,920 But your main job is to equip right, right? Yeah, and churches are much healthier when the priests equip. Yeah. Yeah 222 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,480 So fun things have I talked to you about chiasms before no you haven't okay 223 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:31,040 So the uh chiasms are a middle eastern literature form much like we would call about a five paragraph essay 224 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:38,880 Okay, right. So in in america we would have like intro three three blocks of solid content and then outro which recaps everything that came before it, right? 225 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,240 in eastern literature specifically 226 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,280 From the time of torah through the time of jesus they have this thing people call it ring composition theory 227 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:53,280 They call it chiasms, but it's a mirroring text where you would have an idea a idea b idea c 228 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,120 Idea d and then idea c again b and then a 229 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,640 Right. So if you're reading the bible and you're like, I feel like they're saying the same thing that's because they are 230 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,640 And uh, it's actually a road map for you to find the center 231 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:10,240 Yeah, so verses one through 32 in chapter 12 is actually it's actually a big chiasm 232 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,040 So the first thing we see is on the outer side on verse one and verse 32 233 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:20,400 He says to be careful to observe the statutes and in 32 he says to be careful to do the commands 234 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:26,480 Right. These are what moses is talking about in verses two through four and verses 29 through 30 235 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:32,240 He says to destroy the canaanite worship and beware the canaanite worship linked ideas, right? 236 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:39,120 In verses five through fourteen and twenty six through twenty eight. They say that you need to worship at the central sanctuary 237 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:44,560 Right. That's the bulk of this text in verses 15 through 18 and 20 through 25 238 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:50,320 It talks about meat and blood and what you're supposed to do with the sacrifices and then in verse 19 239 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,680 It centers on don't neglect the levites now 240 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,400 Why would central to worship we would make sure that the levites aren't neglected 241 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:04,000 Because the levites are the people who are going to teach the entire kingdom how to be a kingdom of priests, right? 242 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:09,840 Right. So the the whole point in worship is that if you want to actually have worship that is going to be focused on god 243 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,960 You need to have people who are equipping the body for service 244 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,400 And to actually be go betweens between heaven and earth 245 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,160 right 246 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,840 So that's a chiasm for you. There's a lot of them in the bible and we're gonna have fun with them 247 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,880 Wow, not not some a ton of them today, but they're really fun when you start finding them. Yeah. Yeah 248 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,520 Talk about genesis once sometime 249 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,000 Yeah, I want to go look now. Oh, yeah 250 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,320 Yeah, i'm gonna i'm gonna give you a website and you're gonna love it. Actually i'm gonna include it in the show notes 251 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,160 It's chiasmus exchange now. I will let you know. I did not vet every chiasm in here 252 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,280 But it is a website where a bunch of christians 253 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:49,040 Have shared chiasms that they found so take every single one with them grain of salt and go look at it yourself 254 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,520 But it's a good starting point if you don't know what to look for. Mm-hmm, right? That's great 255 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,400 So if chapter 12 was about what you should do in worship, yeah 256 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:03,760 Chapter 13 is going to be about what you should not do in worship, right? 257 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,920 It starts with the address of like the worship of other gods and powers and there's a 258 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,480 A cycle of activities show up in three segments and it's actually this is another form of chiasm 259 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,400 So just so you're you're familiar with this when they do cyclical things where they go a b c 260 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,360 A b c a b c it's another form of chiasm 261 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:26,000 So if you look in chapter 13, they're going to give a very clear address of like how do you deal with false worship? 262 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,480 or incorrect worship 263 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:34,720 So it's going to say in the first couple verses if you have a false prophet or what I would call a spiritual authority 264 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,160 That comes in trying to lead you away from god in 265 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,960 67 it says if you have somebody in your family who's trying to lead you a safe people that you trust 266 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,440 And then in 12 to 13 it addresses the surrounding community. There's people in your culture 267 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,240 Around you who are trying to lead you away from god 268 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,080 Here's what you're going to do 269 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,960 You don't listen and you do away with usually eliminate because this is going to be old testament language 270 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,920 So they're going to say take them out kill them stone them 271 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,920 It doesn't necessarily always mean that but it can mean that right? 272 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:09,360 But so i'm just going to say do away with and remember god. So in three through five says don't listen to the prophet 273 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:14,800 Right verse six don't listen to your family. Don't pity them. Don't allow them to guilt trip you 274 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,920 Not that that would be ever be relevant for family, right? 275 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,640 And then in verse 14 when talking about the culture, he says actually destroy the city 276 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:28,480 Because they're going to try to turn you away from god that you that shows up in verse 5 verse 10 verse 17 in those three different stories 277 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:33,200 So put away evil once again verse 5 verse 11 and verse 18. Mm-hmm, right? 278 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,360 So there's actually a system here 279 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:39,840 It's like when you're dealing with a false prophet a false authority when you're dealing with somebody close to you or when you're dealing with somebody 280 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,600 Around you that you're not close to you. What do you do when they're trying to pollute who you're trying to be? 281 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,600 Mm-hmm, right? 282 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,560 It's interesting when we talk about that because it seems like 283 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,160 There is some conversation in the new testament that jesus has around that 284 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:57,360 Right, there's there's a process that you deal with do deal with when people are stepping out of what they're supposed to do, right? 285 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,080 So what's the process of dealing with that? 286 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:06,720 Right, right. You don't have a conversation. Yep alone first. Yeah, you bring somebody else bring somebody else 287 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,840 You bring the elders during the elders and then finally you put them in front of the church 288 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:16,320 And then if they won't respond then then you treat them like tax collectors and sinners now. I like to point out here 289 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:21,840 That jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners sinners and he spent a lot of time with them 290 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,040 I think sometimes when in our thing is we're like, okay 291 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,520 Well, we're going to be able to do that and we're going to be able to do that 292 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,040 I think sometimes when in our thing is we're like, okay. Well, we're going to treat them like tax collectors 293 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,040 They just put them out and ignore them 294 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:38,720 No, that's not what jesus is saying. He's saying treat them like people who are not part of the kingdom and that you're inviting in 295 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,560 That's good. Yeah, you're not putting them out. They're actually meant to be a part of you 296 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,960 And that makes me think of the the passage in galatians 6 where it says 297 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:55,440 If a brother or sister is caught up in sin you who are translations, you know 298 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,440 You who are more spiritually mature 299 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:03,520 You go to your brother and your sister and you do what you humbly and gently restore them back 300 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:09,200 To right standing with god and I love that man because if we treated them like tax collectors 301 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,640 So often in the church, I remember a pastor saying 302 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:14,560 that 303 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:22,000 Average person will lose seven significant relationships in their life the average person will right yet the pastor loses 304 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,520 Seven significant relationships a year. Oh good golly 305 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:31,600 and I sat back when I was listening to it because he was he was I think it was at the global leadership summit and 306 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,400 he was just sharing 307 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,400 to those that are in the trenches that 308 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:43,280 So often this job is so heavily wrapped up in relationship everything that we're trying to do 309 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000 In the church is relationship related 310 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:52,160 Yeah, and we have the tendency that when things get awkward that we ignore the problem or we just shut and be like 311 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,920 I'm gonna ignore you you're not compliant with me 312 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,200 So i'm gonna do do that 313 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,920 But what you're saying is i'm actually supposed to be going and sitting with them and being like tonight 314 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,640 I'm gonna dine with you right zacky is tonight 315 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,240 You're gonna open up your home and i'm gonna come hang out with you and i'm not doing that ben, right? 316 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,760 Well, and I will I will give you a little bit of grace on the other side of it because there is also this 317 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,240 Jesus also says when you're going to the sheep of israel and you're sharing this message 318 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,280 And they just won't receive it right 319 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,160 It's okay to shake off the dust and move on right to shake off the dust right now. You're not angry 320 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,520 We're just shaking and moving on like it comes from the sermon on the mount where he says you don't throw your pearls before swine 321 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:37,840 Now we don't want to call people that we disagree with swine like I think that's probably I will tell you I really like bacon 322 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,400 So like it's not a bad thing to be a swine, right? 323 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,440 I really feel like 324 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,400 Are you saying you're a cannibal because you just equated people with swine then said you like bacon 325 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:52,320 You know what? I'm just going to brush past that and i'm going to edit out that you said anything. Okay. Okay. I'm just 326 00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:57,840 Just trying to connect about this idea is like is like you can you can bring like these great arguments 327 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,400 But at the same time you don't need you shouldn't waste your time with people who actually don't want to be part of the kingdom 328 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:07,680 I think the people that I would where you go after them are people who actually want to be part of the kingdom 329 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:13,920 But they're struggling with taking those steps or really understanding it like that's where you're actually discipling them into truth 330 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,040 Well, and can we call out that we as a church? 331 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:22,400 We often don't know how to love well the people who don't want don't want to be involved, right? 332 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:28,320 Yeah, I think we've been calling that out for 38. We have we have yeah like because I was at a conference. Oh, this is 333 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,040 Five six years ago something like that 334 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,120 And then like the person who was presenting was asked the question 335 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:39,920 And there's a bunch of pastors in the room. So just a little context there is asking the question 336 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,360 He's like he's like, okay. Are you able to love those? 337 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,920 Who you disagree with or who hate you and there's a bunch of people really calm man 338 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:53,680 That's really good and I'm sitting in the back of the room with with one of my friends who's also pastor and we were just like 339 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,480 What do you mean? 340 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:02,320 Like we should actually as church leaders be insulted by that question because if we're called into ministry 341 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,480 Yes, we should be able to do that. But yeah, we don't yeah, right 342 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,320 Most of ministry is actually going to be loving people who are really hard to love. Yeah 343 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,280 Right. Actually, let me take that step most of being a Christian is loving people who are really hard 344 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:21,360 Yeah, it's like it's one of those things where you're like listen, we need to figure this out because it's not about uniformity 345 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:24,240 We're not all gonna look the same. Mm-hmm, right? We're gonna disagree about 346 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,360 Interpretations on tongues and healing and women pastors and like all these like there's a bunch of things 347 00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:33,600 But regardless of that, we're gonna figure out a way to work together for the sake of the gospel 348 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:40,240 Yeah, we've said before on the podcast like in Romans Paul talks about like like what is the criteria for following Jesus? 349 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,720 Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Christ is Lord 350 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,280 All right, if we're doing those things and we have to figure out how to work together. Yeah, we're gonna have differences 351 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,800 Yeah, we'll have differences. But if it's not a salvation issue 352 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:54,800 We have to figure out a maybe put some of those differences aside and be like, okay 353 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,680 We're gonna disagree on these but we're still gonna work together for the kingdom 354 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,600 For the good of the kingdom to bring to help bring the kingdom to the earth 355 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,680 Yeah, and I think I've said this before and I'm gonna say it again because I just think of Warren's repeating 356 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,840 Before you deal with somebody's theological issues. You have to love them. Yeah 357 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,880 So when somebody is like, oh, I don't know if I want to get to know them because they think about blah blah blah 358 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,120 Like I don't care what it is, right? Okay 359 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:21,600 You have to love somebody first at the very minimum because they're made in the image of God. Mm-hmm 360 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,520 And at the very minimum you should love them because God loves you. Yeah, right 361 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,560 And if you can't then you really have no business speaking into their theological 362 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,280 deficiencies 363 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:40,880 You need to love them first and then have relationship. We talked about Ephesians speaking truth and love comes in a context of 364 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:47,280 Unity of fellowship, right where people are bearing with each other building each other up living together 365 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:53,040 And then they're able to speak truth and love you can't speak a truth and love outside a community 366 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,480 You can't speak a truth and love outside a community help and you can't go straight to speaking truth without having 367 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:04,720 You cannot correct without connection. Correct. Mm-hmm. You cannot and you know, I just we're here we are 368 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,680 We're going on a tangent. We're all in our 30s right now and 369 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:14,000 We have been running in this. I identify as in my 20. I'm just well you can keep doing that 370 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,600 Spencer someone should tell your face and you know, the rest of the rest of you that you're in your 20s 371 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:26,240 I'm sorry. Sorry, we're digressing. But I think that all of us in context actually to worship and what we have felt 372 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:33,440 God has put on our hearts as we as worship leaders or worship pastors and we're setting the banquet table and wanting people to come 373 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,440 And feast we've actually found 374 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,760 There's been a lot of things that have caused 375 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:44,160 Break in community because worship has been such a divisive, right? 376 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,720 topic for people 377 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:52,560 And I think that all of us sitting here have some battle wounds and some scars of times that 378 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:56,400 We maybe didn't handle people's critique 379 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,720 I have always been perfect never any 380 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,280 Well, and I'm sitting here in like full 381 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,720 Fully like acknowledging I'm sitting here in full conviction because I'm just thinking gosh Ben 382 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,680 I remember when I was cutting my teeth in leadership 383 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,840 14 years ago and getting to that passage where it was like 384 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,000 How can you say that you love God when you are holding hate in your heart for your brother? 385 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,560 And I was like, oh dear Jesus 386 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:29,920 like the list is too long right now of people that are showing up in the church and struggling with either me as a person 387 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,680 You know my prior life before Christ is you know 388 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,200 God is a god of grace and that's what I hope people hear when they hear my story what I'm getting to is 389 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,000 worship is such 390 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,160 a beautiful sacred 391 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,160 thing that God invites us to 392 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,480 and I really believe that when we enter into the throne room of God and 393 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,040 And and Moses is telling them don't worship the way that these other people are worshiping it 394 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,920 It's got to look different that I and don't take what they have and don't let them influence you 395 00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:02,800 I don't care if they're a spiritual authority. I don't care if they're a family member 396 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,920 I don't care if they're your community you worship God the way that you know, you're supposed to right 397 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,880 Mm-hmm, but what's kind of getting at me right now is 398 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:17,040 There's gonna come a day here in like 10 or 20 years where we're going to be watching this young whippersnapper come in 399 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,240 And they're gonna want to be doing things wildly different than what we've come to know 400 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,160 Yeah, and we're gonna be those Moses is going wait. Wait, we're following Deuteronomy 401 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:31,360 We're gonna teach our children and our grandchildren the scriptures and to keep doing things this way 402 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,920 and I'm wondering if 403 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,680 We are creating space in ourselves to hold 404 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:45,920 The older generation's opinion of what worship is supposed to look like right versus what we feel like there's a movement happening in the current young generation 405 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:53,200 We're seeing that we heard about ashberry where we've heard about all these nights of worship that aren't stopping in the young generation 406 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,680 And there's a lot of older people that want to critique what that worship looks like when Sean 407 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,720 With the blonde curly hair is worshiping in Seattle. Yeah from Hillsong. Yeah 408 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,920 And we want to critique it because it doesn't look the way right? 409 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,400 It looks like the world so we don't we don't want to trust well 410 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:15,280 And I think I think the the one of the issues that we run into and then Spencer and I have been talking about thinking 411 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:21,680 Generationally like even we talk I was pastor nick and I were talking about the need to actually bring on somebody younger than us into the 412 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,720 Into the mix for like leading because we have to think beyond ourselves 413 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,480 Absolutely, right and I was like, you know has to be like the norm behavior like you have to disciple that behavior, but 414 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,120 There's a difference between the two 415 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:38,800 But there's a difference between critiquing a situation and actually stepping in and pastoring a situation 416 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,160 One of the things that I long maintain is that when people are learning to follow god and they have a lot of passion 417 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,640 Just be okay with the mess 418 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,160 And we're not also be okay cleaning it up like it's like one of the things we do is we pastor into the situations 419 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,360 And we love people as like but I want them to try some things 420 00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:02,640 And like they're gonna make mistakes. Yeah, I mean when's the last time anybody got up to preach the first time and they were great 421 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:09,360 Right or some for some let's be honest. Yeah, they're 50th time and we're like, wow, you're still in the rotation 422 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,800 You know and and I was like but at the same time we're like, oh but when you get up to do this 423 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,040 You got to do everything perfect. We're gonna mess up 424 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,480 You're gonna mess up and we we fully acknowledge that you have to have a culture where it's okay to mess up 425 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,560 But you're messing up in pursuit of something right? Right. You're not 426 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:32,640 Messing up in as you're actually dodging pursuing something. No, you're running towards the price, correct? 427 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,040 Yeah, exactly that is set before stripping off every hindrance that we have 428 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:43,120 You know, like we're making sure that we're going to that and letting god refine. Yeah, yes through those messy 429 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,160 Yeah, and you look at you look at David and scriptures 430 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,480 And we know David as a man after God's own heart 431 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,520 Yet he was a horrible father. He saw a woman 432 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,120 He like devised a plan to have her husband killed so he could take her as his wife 433 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:03,280 Right, you know committed adultery all these things, right? So what made David a man after God's own heart? 434 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,080 It's the fact that he actually repented 435 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:13,200 That he came and he continually repented recognized when he did wrong. It's not that he didn't fall short because he did 436 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,920 But he repented 437 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:21,360 So when I was doing a read-through on David the last time through the bible one of the things that I noticed that really jumped off the page of me 438 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,920 You know when David really started to struggle with things 439 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,880 He stopped talking to God. Mm-hmm 440 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,120 Like it's very clear through most of David's life. He's talking to God and then he stops 441 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,560 And then suddenly boom boom boom boom all these things start falling. Mm-hmm 442 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:42,160 It's almost like there's a correlation between when there's a severance of relationship suddenly you living out the righteousness of God stops happening. Yeah, right 443 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,560 All right. I'm gonna keep us moving here 444 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,880 So into because all this is so good, but otherwise we're gonna have to be here for hours. Keep us on track 445 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,160 So chapter 14, by the way, actually has another chiasm that i'm not going to point out 446 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,480 But i'm just gonna let you know that it's there listeners if you want to find it then Spencer will get you a cookie 447 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,320 If you do not live here, it's not going to be a good cookie by the time it gets to you 448 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,920 You let me know what town you're you live in and I will get you a gift certificate 449 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,080 We got a way to get you a cookie shop at whatever the cookie shop's even a thing. I don't know 450 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,640 There's crumble. Okay. Yeah 451 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,680 Yeah, crumble cookie is really good. Do you realize that it's not a sponsor? 452 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,680 There's drama around crumble just saying hey, you know 453 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,360 There's drama around most things and as long as it's delicious, I don't care about the drama 454 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,840 So God comes back in verse one and he starts talking about the customs of the surrounding nations 455 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,920 He says, you know, don't cut or shave yourself for the dead, right? Customs of the people around him 456 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,720 They are different and you are supposed to be different than them. Right? You're supposed to be holy 457 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,720 He talks about what food and what they're not supposed to eat 458 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,400 They're going to find themselves in well, let's just say gut trouble at the very least 459 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,480 If they eat the wrong foods, but specifically God just had some foods that they're not doing 460 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,880 Sometimes they're involved in deity worship. Sometimes there's some health things 461 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,600 So a lot of reasons God does is it's probably some that we just don't know 462 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,720 But he specifies he says hey, these are the animals that are on the land 463 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,360 These are the ones that are in the sea and these are the ones that are in the air 464 00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,920 Right. He specifies don't eat these ones either 465 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,000 All the way down in verse 21 466 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,280 This actually comes back and talks about a previous episode that we conversation point about Samson and the national 467 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:13,360 Right vow that you aren't supposed to eat anything you find dead or something or eat something from something that is dead 468 00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:16,240 Now you can give it to a foreigner 469 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,840 Right. Yeah, but they aren't supposed to eat it. I 470 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,880 I just love that. He's like he's like you can't do this 471 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,280 There's actually can't give it to a foreigner. So but the but there's something there to it 472 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,680 Right, like like we as believers like when we're reaching people who do not follow Jesus 473 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,440 We can't expect them to live the way we do right? Yeah, right like 474 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,480 And so if you ever thought the Bible doesn't say that by the way, it's right here. Yeah 475 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,480 Well, this is my phone, but it's in the Bible 476 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:47,360 Well, you can't expect them to live the way we do like we are trying like we have things that have been set in our lives 477 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,680 Some personal convictions some biblical mandates, right? 478 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,800 I've been set in our lives by the Lord that we follow after 479 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,800 But at the same time the people we were reaching they don't have those right 480 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,360 And so when we're reaching it when we're when we are when we are coming alongside those people and we're like 481 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,360 Well, this is what you need to do. It's like actually 482 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,480 No, you just need to come alongside be a friend and love them. Well, right 483 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,960 Well, and we've talked about we said Jesus comes and he says repent for the kingdom of heaven is near 484 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,520 Yeah, right. This is the that's actually the gospel of Jesus Christ 485 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:21,520 That's the gospel that he preaches that the kingdom has the year and then his life death burial and resurrection confirm what that means 486 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:27,760 Mm-hmm, right, but there's there's this invitation to be part of the kingdom. Mm-hmm repent come back 487 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,480 Because the kingdom of heaven is here, right? 488 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,000 There is an invitation from God to partner with them and what he's doing in the world 489 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,040 And until you actually accept that invitation, there is no command but as soon as you do there's command 490 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,760 It's called you're gonna love each other as I have loved you. Yeah 491 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,560 And you're going to put my story on display 492 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:50,160 Right like this this is the command but until you actually choose to do that. There is no command for you 493 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,160 Mm-hmm. That's not how that works 494 00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:55,040 To your point Spencer, we can't legislate righteousness 495 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,480 Now I that is not to say that we can't legislate righteousness 496 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,480 Mm-hmm. Now I that is not to say that I don't think the Christians should vote their conscience 497 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:08,800 I think they absolutely should you should vote biblical concepts. Mm-hmm, but you also need to recognize that god's in control of legislature. Not you 498 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,280 Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's in control 499 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:17,680 Yeah, and yeah and just the tangent a little bit more a lot of times we try to force what we 500 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:24,000 What our biblical ideals deals are on other people whether that's through legislation or whether that's your personal relationship 501 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:29,120 I've seen it both ways, but we try to do that. The reality though is the gospel thrives 502 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:35,360 Has thrived in multiple cultures with multiple different political beliefs multiple 503 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:41,520 Government structures if you don't believe me on that just go look at the church in parts of asia 504 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,200 Yeah, right like very different than us in the u.s 505 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:51,440 And it's thriving you take you take christianity in the ussr, right? Yeah, you take christianity during communist china 506 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,560 Mm-hmm, right like it is it is something intense. Mm-hmm 507 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,040 So this idea is says you you don't you need to look different than the people around you 508 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:03,120 This comes back to this conversation we've had of you're actually going to be holy you're going to be different 509 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,680 You're going to put something else on display to show the kingdom of god 510 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,000 So let's talk about tithing because people are just like just raring to talk about money 511 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,160 I know that because that's what comes up next 512 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,400 Moses says that a tenth of all of your fields produce 513 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,960 You're supposed to give it to the church 514 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,920 Oh, no, that's not what that hold on seconds. I'm not what that says 515 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:25,200 Oh shoot man. I I could swear with most of the churches that I grew up and that's what it says 516 00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:29,200 It actually says that one tenth of your fields produce you're supposed to eat it 517 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,640 And the first born of your flock in the presence of god where the presence dwells god doesn't need your stuff 518 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,160 He wants you to spend time with him 519 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,960 It's always been about relationship 520 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,800 Now he doesn't give provisions because it's like hey if you live really far away sell your stuff take the money 521 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,800 Go to where god tells you to worship buy the stuff there and then eat it with god 522 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:56,000 But don't neglect the levites again because they have no allotment or inheritance 523 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,320 So and then this is my one of my favorite things about the ties every three years 524 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,840 You bring another portion of your tithe of the land and store it in your towns 525 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:09,280 So that the levites and the foreigners the fatherless and the widows can come and eat and be satisfied 526 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,560 So that the lord may bless you in all the works of your hands 527 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,520 Because it's always about other people being loved 528 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,520 And them loving god 529 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,880 Every three years can you imagine if every church person every three years we just collected an extra 10 of our income 530 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:30,080 Our extra 10 of our production and we set it aside for the fatherless the hungry the orphans 531 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,160 The widows solve so many issues solve so many issues. Don't kick me. Sorry 532 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:40,320 I mean you're gonna make me go on a tangent because something you guys aren't aware is that our church 533 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,880 Is doing a foster care ministry? 534 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,400 And we have partnered with a foster care agency here on island 535 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,440 We are seeing that the scriptures are very clear what we're supposed to do with the fatherless 536 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:57,840 Yeah, and so we are partnering with this agency and providing our facility and providing child care 537 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,320 So that way when parents have to go through mandatory trainings to be foster parents 538 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,960 They don't have child care or they got to do cpr training or they have to do trauma 539 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:13,360 Informed care because they're getting kids from really scary homes and so we as a church have said we realize this is a hardship 540 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,400 You are actually doing what the bible has said to do 541 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,320 So we're going to come alongside you and we're going to feed you we're going to take care of your kids 542 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,440 You can use our building do your trainings here and it has been 543 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,240 Fabulous and we had a banquet last night to celebrate the families that we are 544 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,280 Supporting and saying thank you for saying yes 545 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,240 And all of the families that were there last night are not there 546 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,840 And all of the families that were there last night are not believers, right? 547 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,400 Yeah, we're just saying we see that you are doing what god has called us to do. Yeah 548 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:44,560 And we want to say 549 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:49,200 Thank you. I love that. I love it. Just so practical and like and not simple 550 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,480 It's not simple and you know, it's been really hard to start this, you know, and when you're talking about money 551 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,800 there's so many facets to this conversation because we all know that 552 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:04,080 There's not a lot of money flowing through churches these days tithing is not something that I think our generation 553 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,400 Knows it's it blows my mind when i'm sitting at the table with people in our generation 554 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,880 And they're like tithe offering 555 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,000 And they can't engage in the conversation 556 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:21,760 They don't know why we do it why we don't do it. Like it just floors my mind that money is such a 557 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,000 taboo 558 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,000 Conversation for I would say our generation 559 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,400 Well, I think part of the reason it's a taboo conversation is because there has been abuse financially with the churches 560 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:31,520 Yeah, we saw it bad 561 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,360 Yeah, and and that has happened 562 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,080 So that's one of them but I also feel like one of the reasons to have a conversation is because when the 563 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,520 Whenever I hear people preach about it, they're talking about how you need to give more money to the church 564 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,840 Now i'm going to be say something that's kind of controversial and i've gotten in trouble with no 565 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,160 I haven't actually the pastors don't they are very 566 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,720 They're very tolerant of me at this church 567 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,360 But I made mention I said god doesn't need your money 568 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,560 And if you're not bringing your money because you're actually trying to give into the kingdom of god, we don't want it 569 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,960 He made mention of that during a sermon. He was preaching at church 570 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:07,120 Yeah, is that if you are not bringing your money because you're actually trying to feed into the kingdom of god if you're not happy about it 571 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,160 We don't want it 572 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:13,120 Because it's not good for you because it's all about the heart and and the thing is I firmly believe 573 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,720 We're always going to have exactly how much money we need to accomplish what god wants us to do 574 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,080 So for me like I don't we never need your money 575 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,880 God's always going to have our back and have what we need 576 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:29,600 What I what I'm concerned about is if you don't recognize that everything you have comes from god, right? 577 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,720 Then you're going to live a life of selfishness 578 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,720 Right, you're going to live a life of selfishness and then you're going to wonder why you never have the fullness of god in your life 579 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,440 I'll tell you why because you don't actually recognize where what you have comes from 580 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,280 You forgot that he is the lord your god who brought you out of the land of the dead 581 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,560 You forgot that he is the lord your god who brought you out of the land of egypt 582 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,840 And so you have other gods and it's called your wallet 583 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,320 right 584 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,320 There's my soapbox and i'm stepping off of it 585 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,600 well and with tithing to 586 00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:06,400 It's giving to where kingdom work is happening. Correct, right if you 587 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:13,920 Were giving to a church but no kingdom work was happening at that church and you pulled your tithe and you moved it to a different 588 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:19,740 Non-profit christian organization whatever that where kingdom work is happening. Great. Yeah, right 589 00:42:20,140 --> 00:42:25,180 Like the tithe isn't meant just to go to the church that you're attending, right? 590 00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:29,340 Right. It's meant to go to where kingdom work is happening. Yeah, and and 591 00:42:30,060 --> 00:42:32,940 I'm sure somebody will write us an email and tell me about why i'm wrong 592 00:42:33,020 --> 00:42:35,580 But once again, i'm going to create content. You can say whatever you want 593 00:42:36,060 --> 00:42:39,500 Whatever general will i tell people so the reason i like 10 is a super easy number 594 00:42:40,140 --> 00:42:42,700 Right. I was like really you should be a cheerful giver with whatever you have 595 00:42:42,700 --> 00:42:49,340 But start with 10 take it and then ask god throughout the week to bring things kingdom work to your life 596 00:42:50,460 --> 00:42:55,980 And then fund those things out of your tithe. Mm-hmm. And at the end of the week give it to the church 597 00:42:56,940 --> 00:42:58,940 And then trust god to work through the church 598 00:42:59,260 --> 00:43:03,900 You know, the crazy thing is there's a there's been a study where they actually did those in a number of churches 599 00:43:04,460 --> 00:43:09,580 Did you know that tithing rose like over 200 within two months because people were doing it 600 00:43:09,580 --> 00:43:16,940 But then like they started recognizing the the kingdom activity and they started being involved right in kingdom activity in their church 601 00:43:17,260 --> 00:43:24,300 Right, and we've had those offered those situations where people will write a check and they're like this is my tithe and i'm donating it 602 00:43:24,540 --> 00:43:28,540 donating it specifically for this ministry and we're like well, that's not a 603 00:43:29,100 --> 00:43:34,940 that's interesting that you're saying that because our stance that we've had and what leaders have said and elders and pastors have said is 604 00:43:34,940 --> 00:43:41,340 That's not a tithe then you you you don't designate what you're giving into the kingdom. You're trusting 605 00:43:42,060 --> 00:43:46,700 You're trusting the leviets, you know, you're giving into them. You're you're paying them 606 00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:47,740 That's what your tithe is 607 00:43:47,740 --> 00:43:52,380 So that way the leviets can continue to teach you how to do this kingdom living 608 00:43:52,780 --> 00:43:58,700 And so we don't take it that way. We would call that an offering in our community of faith 609 00:43:59,020 --> 00:44:02,300 That would be an offering because if you're choosing where it's going, it's an offering 610 00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:07,180 And the end and offering is anything outside of the 10 percent. That's what we teach 611 00:44:08,620 --> 00:44:10,460 So it's interesting that you know 612 00:44:10,460 --> 00:44:13,740 I I it's just gonna be very hard to back up from a biblical perspective 613 00:44:14,060 --> 00:44:16,380 But from a from an operating perspective, I think that's totally fine 614 00:44:16,700 --> 00:44:21,260 Yeah, like because I think that you're giving clear delineation of like how you interpret it, you know 615 00:44:21,260 --> 00:44:22,700 I mean, yeah 616 00:44:22,700 --> 00:44:26,460 The hard thing is too is that is that people always equate tithe with money too? 617 00:44:26,540 --> 00:44:30,460 And I was like the problem is is that what is the fruit of your time? What is the fruit of your ability? 618 00:44:30,460 --> 00:44:35,740 You know, and I was like because for example like so I do a lot of stuff at our church 619 00:44:36,060 --> 00:44:37,820 I don't receive anything from it, right? 620 00:44:37,820 --> 00:44:43,180 I do it because i'm giving into the kingdom of my time and my talent and my energy and and I was like so 621 00:44:43,580 --> 00:44:44,700 I was like 622 00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:49,020 How do you quantify? I was like what you should be doing is you should be having a regular conversation with god 623 00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:52,460 About what do you want me to do? Yeah, right? 624 00:44:53,020 --> 00:44:55,020 You know, what do you want me to do? 625 00:44:55,100 --> 00:44:58,620 And and like a lot of the time the problem with tithing in general and people say well 626 00:44:58,620 --> 00:45:03,100 How much am I supposed to give I was like, well, first of all that question is usually how little can I give and be? 627 00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:04,940 On god's good side 628 00:45:04,940 --> 00:45:09,980 You know that that's actually what the question is. Whereas the question is god. What are you doing? And how can I partner with you? 629 00:45:11,020 --> 00:45:14,780 Mm-hmm. And it's again coming back to that heart posture. It's about 630 00:45:15,820 --> 00:45:21,660 Where's your heart when you're giving because there because there is that story in scripture too where there is the widow with the two mites 631 00:45:21,820 --> 00:45:25,180 Yeah, right where when she drops those in jesus is like yo 632 00:45:25,180 --> 00:45:31,740 She just gave way more than all y'all combined right like and they're like what she dropped two pennies and he's like, yeah 633 00:45:31,740 --> 00:45:36,940 I know but still she gave she gave everything that she gave everything because she thought it was really important 634 00:45:37,020 --> 00:45:40,940 Yeah, you know and and when it comes to giving of your time and your skills 635 00:45:41,820 --> 00:45:45,500 One of the things I think is hard to wrestle with it might be a skill that you have that you're good at 636 00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:48,620 But that you don't enjoy right but she can still give of that 637 00:45:50,220 --> 00:45:52,220 Like and that's 638 00:45:52,220 --> 00:45:58,940 That's something that you can do with a cheerful heart without complaining and it can bless the kingdom 639 00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:03,260 I want to come into chapter 15 here real quick because this is relevant to our conversation 640 00:46:03,980 --> 00:46:05,020 Moses 641 00:46:05,020 --> 00:46:07,980 Continues on he talks about that every seven years they're to cancel their debts 642 00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:11,180 Right to all the israelites that you can require payment from a foreigner 643 00:46:11,180 --> 00:46:15,420 But you have to cancel the debt from israeli now. I thought that was really interesting that he said then however 644 00:46:16,300 --> 00:46:18,300 Right after that. He says this 645 00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:21,740 There need not be any poor among you. Mm-hmm 646 00:46:22,460 --> 00:46:29,820 Including foreigners. Mm-hmm. And if anyone is poor don't be hard-hearted or tight-fisted be open handed and freely lend 647 00:46:30,300 --> 00:46:33,260 Don't harbor wicked thoughts knowing that seven years is coming. Mm-hmm 648 00:46:33,580 --> 00:46:37,100 Let's see if I give them a hundred dollars today a week from now. I have to forgive that 649 00:46:37,100 --> 00:46:39,100 No, you just give a hundred dollars, right? 650 00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:42,860 Give generously to them and do so without a grudging heart then 651 00:46:43,660 --> 00:46:45,660 Because of this yeah 652 00:46:45,660 --> 00:46:49,820 The lord your god will bless you. Yeah, not just debts, but you're going to free them from slavery 653 00:46:49,820 --> 00:46:54,620 It's a different kind of slavery. We've talked about how american slavery and israeli slavery was very different 654 00:46:54,860 --> 00:46:57,260 But slavery is slavery. Nonetheless, it's not good 655 00:46:57,820 --> 00:47:01,820 Right if a servant wants to stay with you bring them into your household for protection 656 00:47:02,140 --> 00:47:05,420 But don't consider it a burden to free them because the lord's going to bless you 657 00:47:05,980 --> 00:47:07,980 And so it's it's never about 658 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,140 Generational poverty. It's never about generational servitude 659 00:47:12,140 --> 00:47:15,340 God is finding ways for people to find freedom, right? 660 00:47:15,820 --> 00:47:19,420 And and I always love how god is both a capitalist and a socialist 661 00:47:19,980 --> 00:47:23,340 At the same time where he's like you can accumulate for yourself. God's gonna bless you 662 00:47:23,340 --> 00:47:26,860 He's gonna grow your herds, but you need to get freely and every seven years. You got to forgive all your debts 663 00:47:27,580 --> 00:47:29,580 There's there's a lot going on there 664 00:47:29,660 --> 00:47:35,100 But the whole thing is that you need to be be thinking and be generous to the people around you 665 00:47:35,580 --> 00:47:39,180 Yeah, all of the conversations about tithe and offerings 666 00:47:39,180 --> 00:47:41,980 These would not be an issue if people were generous 667 00:47:43,340 --> 00:47:47,340 They only become an issue because christians aren't generous people 668 00:47:47,340 --> 00:47:51,980 Yeah, and I and I hesitate to say that because there's a lot of really generous christian people 669 00:47:53,500 --> 00:47:56,060 And being generous with your time and your talents 670 00:47:56,540 --> 00:48:02,460 The hard thing with that is you have to sacrifice correct. You have to figure out how that works 671 00:48:03,100 --> 00:48:05,100 Because if you're saying yes to one thing 672 00:48:05,100 --> 00:48:09,660 You have to say no to something else. Yeah, that's how I mean, that's how time works, right? 673 00:48:10,140 --> 00:48:14,460 Like if you're committed, I mean at least people who manage time responsibly if you're 674 00:48:15,580 --> 00:48:20,380 If you commit to one thing that means you can't have somebody you can't have something else commit to that same time 675 00:48:20,940 --> 00:48:24,460 Yeah, because then if you do you're burning bridges, right? 676 00:48:24,460 --> 00:48:30,060 So how you manage that time when you are sacrificing saying hey, i'm going to give this to the lord for this reason 677 00:48:30,060 --> 00:48:35,820 You have to know that that is going to maybe take away from some of the things that you want 678 00:48:36,220 --> 00:48:38,220 Some things you desire 679 00:48:38,380 --> 00:48:44,300 And like I was saying earlier it you might even be committing to something you're really good at that you don't care for 680 00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:47,820 Yeah, right, but it's something that blesses the kingdom, right? 681 00:48:48,620 --> 00:48:52,780 Romans tells us to offer our living bodies as a sacrifice and that 682 00:48:53,580 --> 00:48:56,060 That's everything it's our time our talent 683 00:48:56,060 --> 00:49:03,420 It's it's being able to say lord I may not want to be here schlepping and cleaning toilets on a saturday night in the church building 684 00:49:03,420 --> 00:49:11,580 But i'm really good at cleaning. Yeah, and actually cleaning can can be really therapeutic. I can turn on worship music and 685 00:49:12,620 --> 00:49:18,620 Get my aggression out on tile and grout and and it's about the heart posture 686 00:49:18,620 --> 00:49:23,100 Am I doing this because i'm hoping someone's gonna walk into my room and say, oh my god, I'm gonna do this 687 00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:27,820 I'm gonna do this because I'm hoping someone's gonna walk in the building and see that pastor 688 00:49:27,820 --> 00:49:30,860 Sarah's cleaning the bathroom and oh look at the servant heart that she has 689 00:49:31,500 --> 00:49:33,820 Because come on, let's talk about all of this 690 00:49:34,460 --> 00:49:37,420 let's let's let's remove the veil because we all 691 00:49:38,140 --> 00:49:40,140 if we have any ounce of 692 00:49:41,100 --> 00:49:43,580 worship and desire to be part of 693 00:49:44,460 --> 00:49:51,660 What's happening? We all have artistry inside of us and we all know what that artistry can do and be corrupted into 694 00:49:51,660 --> 00:49:53,900 so we have to check that spirit a lot but 695 00:49:54,620 --> 00:49:57,900 We have to be willing to be doing those things that don't look pretty 696 00:49:58,300 --> 00:50:02,780 And it should be kind of painful like I should be going on saturday night and being going like this sucks 697 00:50:03,180 --> 00:50:08,300 I want to be home relaxing because tomorrow morning i'm gonna show up before everyone else and i'm gonna set the banquet table 698 00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:10,300 i'm gonna worship but 699 00:50:10,460 --> 00:50:16,220 Tithing I really think it it is supposed to be a wrestle. It's supposed to be that like oh god 700 00:50:17,020 --> 00:50:19,020 i'm gonna give this to you and 701 00:50:19,020 --> 00:50:24,460 I'm gonna trust that you're gonna multiply it right not just multiply what i'm giving and hoping that it enhances the kingdom 702 00:50:24,460 --> 00:50:29,660 But i'm gonna trust that if i'm gonna write this check or i'm gonna sacrifice six hours at the church to do this 703 00:50:29,740 --> 00:50:35,740 Because i'm really good at cooking or i'm really good at fixing windows or leaking ceilings that god's gonna bless me in that 704 00:50:35,900 --> 00:50:39,020 Yeah, and i'm gonna trust him. Yeah, i'm gonna claim it 705 00:50:39,740 --> 00:50:43,580 Yeah, and on on the flip side for church leaders and ministry leaders 706 00:50:43,580 --> 00:50:49,340 You shouldn't force someone into tithing or guilt them into it. No, because we yes 707 00:50:49,740 --> 00:50:52,700 Because a lot of times what we'll what we'll do is be like, okay 708 00:50:52,940 --> 00:50:56,700 You've been involved in church now it's time to serve right which I don't think is a bad thing to do 709 00:50:56,700 --> 00:50:57,660 But then we'll be like, okay 710 00:50:57,660 --> 00:51:04,300 Then you start plugging people into wherever you can because you have all these holes and gaps that you need filled in your ministry 711 00:51:04,860 --> 00:51:10,620 You need more people on the worship team. You need more people in kids ministry. You need more greeters 712 00:51:10,620 --> 00:51:16,780 You need people to make coffee to set up to set up that tear that down. You need people to run soundly 713 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,340 audiovisual stuff 714 00:51:19,340 --> 00:51:26,140 And oftentimes what we do is like church leaders will unintentionally just kind of guilt trip people into saying right being like 715 00:51:26,140 --> 00:51:30,620 Oh, I guess I should help out in some way and as church leaders. We shouldn't do that. Correct 716 00:51:30,620 --> 00:51:36,060 No, this is a get-to this is this is a get-to or a partner with or partner with like yeah 717 00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:42,620 I have people legitimately that I know have told me the only reason why I am serving on this ministry 718 00:51:43,100 --> 00:51:47,580 Is because I get to hang out with you. Yeah, like i've literally had people tell me that and i'm like 719 00:51:48,460 --> 00:51:50,380 Me and i'm like sarah 720 00:51:50,380 --> 00:51:55,660 We we all know that your heart is for the the flock and the sheep and we know that if we're gonna hang out with you 721 00:51:55,660 --> 00:51:59,420 It means we get to serve with you like that's what's gonna happen. That was richard that said that 722 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,420 Ricardo serves out of a joyful heart 723 00:52:03,420 --> 00:52:08,540 Ben richard is uh, sarah's he looks pretty angry to me every time I see him. I'm just joking 724 00:52:08,540 --> 00:52:09,100 Oh dear lord 725 00:52:09,100 --> 00:52:14,940 We were just having this conversation last night because I was telling him i'm like, you know, it's really hard having you as my sound guy 726 00:52:15,660 --> 00:52:19,500 Because we're we're aging so richard is you know, he's in his 40s now and you know 727 00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:22,620 I like to remind him of that and he's got gray hair and you know 728 00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:27,260 People still ask me if i'm you know old enough to have a teenager. So we're in a good balance right now 729 00:52:28,220 --> 00:52:32,060 But I didn't know his eyesight was going so he glares at me from the sound booth and I was like 730 00:52:32,060 --> 00:52:34,700 Am I like doing something wrong when i'm leading worship and he was like 731 00:52:35,420 --> 00:52:37,420 I can't see you 732 00:52:38,300 --> 00:52:43,340 I was like, he's gotta get some glasses really great questions to ask you from time to time because i've been harboring this 733 00:52:44,220 --> 00:52:45,500 For the last two years 734 00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:50,940 Why do you hate me saying that communication between people can lead to a lot of less like miscommunication? 735 00:52:51,980 --> 00:52:55,900 I mean sure ben hear whatever you want to hear. Yeah, i'll hear that so um 736 00:52:56,620 --> 00:52:59,900 the big thing that we we we find in this in this section of scripture is 737 00:52:59,900 --> 00:53:04,220 Is there's a way we're supposed to worship and i'm not neglecting the levites is going to be really important to that 738 00:53:04,700 --> 00:53:09,180 Right staying on track is going to be respecting your leadership to actually equip you. Yeah 739 00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:11,500 Now, of course leadership you need to be respectable 740 00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:18,860 Like you you have a responsibility but regardless of how respectable your leadership is you still owe them respect because you follow god and he's appointed 741 00:53:19,820 --> 00:53:21,820 Scripture calls us to honor your leaders 742 00:53:22,060 --> 00:53:24,860 There is always a reason why you may or may go to a different church 743 00:53:24,940 --> 00:53:28,140 Don't let it be because you disagree with one little semantic thing 744 00:53:28,140 --> 00:53:33,020 Right, right. There are always reasons that that might happen or god is just moving you somewhere else that that's okay 745 00:53:33,580 --> 00:53:35,580 But you should never be going because you're angry 746 00:53:35,980 --> 00:53:38,140 That's something that needs to be worked out 747 00:53:38,140 --> 00:53:44,060 I love it that my pastor says that often the things that stick out to you in the church is where god has actually gifted you 748 00:53:44,060 --> 00:53:48,380 In because you're seeing wow, this isn't going well, and i'm seeing how it could be better 749 00:53:48,380 --> 00:53:52,700 And so when you have people going wow, the sermon's really sucking. Well, sounds like you have the gift of teaching 750 00:53:52,780 --> 00:53:53,420 Yeah 751 00:53:53,420 --> 00:53:58,700 We we would love to hop you in here and you can spend the next 40 80 hours preparing for a sermon and yeah 752 00:53:58,780 --> 00:54:03,340 Or wow worship really sucked today. That sounds really crappy. Hey, we have a open spot 753 00:54:04,060 --> 00:54:06,460 Yeah, right here. You can come make it sound better 754 00:54:07,180 --> 00:54:08,540 Oh, man 755 00:54:08,540 --> 00:54:09,660 So good 756 00:54:09,660 --> 00:54:13,660 So worship properly expressed is going to your leadership is going to equip you 757 00:54:13,980 --> 00:54:15,660 You're not going to look like everybody else 758 00:54:15,660 --> 00:54:17,740 You're not going to be led astray by anybody else 759 00:54:17,820 --> 00:54:20,860 But actually your real worship is going to lead you to be a generous kind of person 760 00:54:20,860 --> 00:54:24,460 In the way that you treat each other in the way that you treat the church in the way that you treat the levites 761 00:54:24,700 --> 00:54:30,220 In the way that you treat the foreigners and specifically in the way that you treat people who are a lower caste system than you as well 762 00:54:31,260 --> 00:54:33,980 It's almost like something like in christ there is neither 763 00:54:34,380 --> 00:54:36,380 Jew or gentile male or female 764 00:54:37,260 --> 00:54:38,300 free or 765 00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:39,980 Slave. Yeah 766 00:54:39,980 --> 00:54:44,700 It's almost like there's some credence to that. Maybe maybe maybe paul knows what he's talking about. Maybe he does 767 00:54:45,020 --> 00:54:48,540 Maybe all right. Well, that's going to be it for this episode. We're going to have you next week 768 00:54:48,540 --> 00:54:51,340 So we're going to wrap today if you see us you're obviously on youtube 769 00:54:51,740 --> 00:54:55,020 And we did not warn pastor sarah harney that we were doing video version 770 00:54:55,420 --> 00:54:58,380 So she's like this is weekend sarah and I was like, well, this is weekend 771 00:54:59,100 --> 00:55:03,020 You can tell because he's got a hat on I always have a hat on so he always has a hat on 772 00:55:03,020 --> 00:55:06,620 But you can tell when I record during the week because i'm wearing a dress shirt and uh, because I come in from work 773 00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:12,460 So you can find us on the facebook on the instagram on the tickety talk the tickety talk youtube 774 00:55:13,020 --> 00:55:16,220 If you're on youtube, like obviously, you know that you can listen on apple spotify 775 00:55:16,220 --> 00:55:21,580 Amazon not google not google not google and many other platforms. Oh, we'd love to hear from you 776 00:55:21,580 --> 00:55:23,740 Also, we have a q a coming up after deuteronomy 777 00:55:23,740 --> 00:55:27,100 So if you have those questions where you're like, hey you guys said something about this 778 00:55:27,100 --> 00:55:30,700 And i'm really curious about what that was send us those at lovingcontexts.gmail.com 779 00:55:31,260 --> 00:55:33,260 Thanks 780 00:55:33,260 --> 00:55:35,260 That's a wrap for today's episode 781 00:55:35,260 --> 00:55:37,260 We want to extend a heartfelt 782 00:55:37,260 --> 00:55:41,100 Thank you for tuning in and spending your valuable time with us 783 00:55:41,100 --> 00:55:44,380 We hope that you found today's conversation insightful 784 00:55:44,380 --> 00:55:49,500 And that you take something meaningful from it if you have questions or comments 785 00:55:49,980 --> 00:55:57,340 We would love to hear from you reach out to us at lovingcontexts.gmail.com and we will be sure to get back to you 786 00:55:57,980 --> 00:56:02,940 Remember you can always engage with our content on all your favorite listening platforms 787 00:56:03,500 --> 00:56:09,900 Including apple spotify amazon youtube and one don't forget to follow us on social media at lovingcontext 788 00:56:09,900 --> 00:56:17,260 On instagram and facebook for updates you're putting your hand getting getting actually involved. Sorry 789 00:56:17,260 --> 00:56:20,700 I don't know. I said putting your hand I put put your hand in here on my notes and I don't know why I did that 790 00:56:21,020 --> 00:56:26,140 Hold on a second. Apparently I have my my voice text on here and it's just it's just it's just going away typing 791 00:56:27,180 --> 00:56:29,180 I can taste and see the crumble cookie is good 792 00:56:29,900 --> 00:56:33,100 So that's probably sacrilegious. I'll take that off. Sorry ben 793 00:56:33,180 --> 00:56:35,660 I know so many things are firing off in your brain right now 794 00:56:35,660 --> 00:56:40,380 I'm sorry, so many and i'm looking at the i'm looking at the time and thinking about what I want to edit out because we still have another episode