Welcome to the Love and Context podcast, engaging in unscripted conversations with your hosts,
Ben and Spencer.
Whether you're tuning in from your car, your office, your home, or anywhere in between,
we are so happy to have you join us today.
Our mission is simple, to explore the Bible through a powerful lens of love.
Together we'll uncover fresh insights and gain deeper understandings of how we can love
God and love the people in our everyday lives.
So buckle up and join us on the spiritual journey as we discover timeless wisdom that
is just as relevant today as it was thousands of years ago.
Without further ado, let's dive right in.
Welcome to the Love and Context podcast.
This is Ben.
And this is Spencer.
And we are back.
Numbers is done and we're into Deuteronomy.
I was checking your memory.
I was like, I'm not sure if you know where we're at.
Oh, we're in the Bible?
Yeah, if you've been with us the last 34 episodes, you know that we've been in Torah and we are
actually into the last book of Torah.
That's exciting.
Yeah, that's really exciting.
Yeah.
Deuteronomy is a wonderful book.
We're going to be talking about that for the next eight or nine episodes.
You've been almost as excited about this one as I was about Leviticus.
Which by the way, there's been a lot of people who really liked Leviticus.
Yeah, that was good.
So today we're going to be chapters one through four.
We're going to give a little bit of overview, but I would encourage you pause this podcast,
go read up.
And then you can come back.
We'll be right here.
Ugly faces and all.
And also in the show notes, we're going to put a link to the Bible Project.
He does an overview episode of Deuteronomy.
I'm actually going to just grab a couple of things from that video and talk about them
in this episode.
So it's a really good study of Torah.
All right, so just a quick reminder of where we've been.
So there's Genesis, origin of the world, origin of God's people, origin of how they get to
where they're going to be.
Right?
Yeah.
Then they end up in slavery and we're in the Book of Exodus.
In the Book of Exodus, we get the, obviously the Exodus out of Egypt.
I wonder if that's why the books name that.
I wonder.
So you get Israel being freed from slavery, from bondage, and then the starting of their
wanderings in the desert.
Correct.
Yeah.
They don't.
And in their wanderings, they do some things well.
Yep.
And in their wanderings, not very well.
Yep.
And so there's a little bit of back and forth.
There's a lot of tension.
And then towards the tail end, you start to get into some of the laws that are getting
written down.
Correct.
Yeah.
So they end up at Sinai and that's largely where the Book of Exodus comes to a conclusion.
Book of Leviticus obviously is not written in a specific time.
And then we just got done going through numbers.
To your point, there's some really good highs and there's some really low lows in that book.
Yep.
And they were following the cloud day by day.
They did what the Lord said.
Moses and Aaron fell face down before the Lord.
And then there's other stories about striking the rock and about complaining about quail,
and complaining about the food, and complaining about the leadership, and wanting to go back
to Egypt, and wanting to go into the land.
And then oops, never mind, we don't want to go into the land because there's giants there.
There's good and bad in these stories.
And I think it's important for us to know that.
Yeah, and in Numbers 2, if you're listening and you're like, man, I'm not sure God can
use me because of how messed up I am.
Read the Book of Numbers.
Just go read the Book of Numbers.
You'll see that Israel is messed up.
They messed up a lot too.
And God still worked through them.
I do love that God doesn't editorialize his book.
We get to see real people.
So the Book of Deuteronomy, we were talking about this, it's different.
And we're going to talk about why it's a little bit different.
First we're going to give you an overall structure of the book.
So Deuteronomy is largely speeches that Moses is giving to the next generation.
Now remember, in the Book of Numbers, they decided not to go into the land.
So one generation is not going to go in except for Caleb and Joshua.
And so Moses is giving his instructions to the next generation.
It actually comes from a Hebrew word meaning a second law.
Now that doesn't mean it's a different law.
It means it's a second giving of the law.
Right?
Because this is a new generation.
And it's a series of speeches from Moses on next generation explaining to them what has
come before and what pitfalls to avoid because there's a lot moving forward.
And there's a change that's happened too at this point.
At this point, and you'll see it's towards the tail end of Deuteronomy as well, but Joshua
is taking over leadership.
Correct.
Moses is passing the baton.
And up until this point, whenever Israel had a complaint against God, they went to Moses
and Moses pleaded on Israel's behalf.
Yeah.
They're not going to have that anymore.
Right.
So they're going to, they're learning something new.
And all this book is going to be told from Moses's perspective.
And we're going to stress why that's important kind of as we go through the episode.
So at the very center of this book is a section of laws and it's a terms of the covenant with
God in Israel.
That's found in chapters 13 through 26.
Outside of this middle section, there's two very large sections where Moses is going to
be talking.
Those are in chapters one through 11 and 27 through 34.
And these are speeches from Moses.
So when we're taking a look at the text, let's just kind of run through it and you and I will
kind of rapid fire these back and forth.
So in chapters one through three, Moses is retelling the story so far, like where have
they come from and where are they going?
And then when you get to chapters four through 11, Moses calls Israel into a covenant of
faithfulness.
Yeah.
Which actually is what's going to be the topic for next week.
Yeah.
Then in chapters 12 through 16, they start talking about Israel's worship.
I believe that pastor Sarah Harnay is going to join us on that one.
She is.
Yeah.
So in chapters 16 through 18, we're going to hear about Israel's leadership.
So in 19 through 26, there are a few things to mention here and revolving around civil
laws and living at peace.
Yeah.
So there's going to be a lot of those, that central section of laws.
And one of the things that I actually took directly from the Deuteronomy video that I
think is helpful in case you don't watch that, that Tim Mackey has to say about this.
First is this, that the laws are the terms of a Sinai covenant given to ancient Israel
to a culture that is very different from ours.
Like, that's the number one thing we have to do.
And then we talked about that in Leviticus as well, but this is going to take place in
Deuteronomy as well.
So the second piece is it's not going to be helpful to compare their laws to the modern
laws of a different culture, namely ours.
Rather, these are given to set Israel apart so that we would need to compare them to their
current neighbors.
So that would be like the Assyrians, the Babylonians.
And then we see how these laws liberate and bring grace to a situation that's already
there.
I believe one of the statements he said is pushing laws to a higher level of morality
and justice, which I really liked.
And then lastly here, he says that you need to discern the core principle that underlines
the law.
Now that's a very familiar conversation with what we had in Leviticus.
That's largely what we were doing through Leviticus, is trying to say what was going
on around them.
What's the principle here?
What are they actually speaking into?
Why does this law exist?
Right.
And one of the things that has made our podcast like we've had questions about is like why
love in context?
Well because you can't just read the Bible and do what it says because a lot of times
we're assuming a lot of things when we do that.
It wasn't written to Americans.
It was written for us, but it wasn't written to us.
Understanding context is key because when you get into different books of the Bible
too, you get into different literary styles.
So I mean Psalms, for example, very different literary style for the most part.
And if you were to apply word for word some stuff from Psalms, that would land you in
prison.
Yeah.
And so we're not going to dive into that too much today.
Yeah we might have a couple of episodes where we talk about types of literature in the Bible.
But even inside of Torah, Genesis is not the same as Leviticus and Leviticus is not the
same as Deuteronomy.
Nope.
There are different kinds of books that are written in different styles.
And so you need to know that going into them.
I think the tendency maybe where people is they're like, oh but the Bible is inerrant.
And I was like, yeah, that means it doesn't contradict itself, but it will absolutely
contradict your interpretation.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah it will.
And if you want a simple way to think of it, at least this is what's helped me, is just
think of the different literary styles in different books today.
You can read fiction.
You can read science.
You can read poems.
Right?
And in the Bible we have all these different books that are written in different styles.
But yeah, we'll talk more about that later.
So continuing in Deuteronomy, chapters 27 through 30, they deal with the warnings and
the ultimatums regarding around obedience to God.
Right?
What's going to happen if you obey and more specifically what's going to happen if you
disobey because they have a lot more experience with that.
Yeah.
And then Deuteronomy ends with Moses's last words in his death.
Right.
Which he probably didn't write.
I mean, I feel like that's probably a safe assumption that he probably didn't write that
part.
Yeah.
So that is the overall structure of Deuteronomy.
And we wanted to bring that up right at the beginning because we're going to be talking
a lot and we want to remind ourselves what section of these conversations we're in.
Right?
Because there is an overall structure to this book, but it really centers on this covenant
and this covenant faithfulness between Israel and God.
Now once again, with it centering on that, you might be looking at some chiastic material,
which we're not going to get into on the podcast, but there are some really great people who
like just dive into that.
Yeah.
So now if you haven't paused the podcast, now it's time to do so chapters one through
four.
Yep.
Read those and then we're going to start talking through this.
So one thing to note in chapters one through three in particular is that Moses retells
a few stories.
Okay.
Now if you go find where those stories are in Numbers and Exodus, you might look at them
and be like, Hey, Numbers and Exodus tells these stories different than Moses is telling
these stories in Deuteronomy.
Right.
Yeah.
You mentioned it earlier, but Moses is retelling of these stories can differ and does differ
from Exodus and Numbers.
Yeah, and I think, I think the word differ is probably the right way to say it because
I think people say it would say they contradict each other.
And I was like, well, it depends on how you, how you interpret it.
Right?
Like Moses is telling it from his perspective and what he saw.
So this wasn't two sayings in the Bible where God said, where God said, thus saith the Lord.
Right?
This is Moses's interpretation of what actually happened in that moment.
Yeah.
So a number of episodes ago, I told a story about food and my mom putting more food on
a plate.
Yep.
And I was like, that did not happen.
Yep.
And I was like, that totally did happen.
And then when we actually got down and figured out what story it was, it was like, Oh, we
had two different rememberings of the story.
I'll see.
That's even more than you, you brought up on your, when your dad was here.
Yeah.
So Tara and I, when we first got married, uh, there was a lady by the name of Brenda
who loaned us a car because, uh, we were in the process of getting like a second car so
that we could both go to work at different times and like a bunch of different things.
Cause we lived on the opposite side of town from where we worked, which is difficult.
When you have to ride a bike to and from work every day.
Yeah.
Um, I was actually in better shape then, so it wasn't as hard, but you know, it was still
difficult.
And uh, Tara told me about that and I'm like, I'm like, I believe you that we borrowed the
car.
I cannot for the life of me remember borrowing that car.
Right?
Like I have like these vague memories, but they merge with like this car that we already
had.
Yeah.
Right.
And we had it for like three months and I was like, I believe you, I believe you that
we did.
Like there is, there is enough circumstantial evidence around this that I have belief in
you.
Plus I just don't feel like she would make that up.
Ben's now going to go get his brain checked, make sure his memory is not slipping.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's been slipping for like 10 years because I still like, I, the thing
is I know that I like intellectually, I know that we did, but I just like, it just, I don't
know why it just mixed in with everything else.
I probably just a lot of things going on.
It was our first year of marriage.
You know?
And I was working full time and like I was doing night shift and night shift was terrible
for me.
And then I switched careers, you know?
So like, there's a lot of like different things going on there.
Yeah.
So, so my, one of my favorite first examples on this is actually taking a look at Deuteronomy
1, 9, where this is kind of like just a different perspective of what's going on.
So I'll read this to you here.
So this is, they're coming into the land and they left Horeb.
They're out there and says, at this time I said to you, you are too heavy a burden for
me to carry alone.
The Lord your God has increased your numbers so that today you are as numerous as the stars
in the sky.
May the Lord, the God of your ancestors increase you a thousand times and bless you as he's
promised.
But how can I bear your problems and burdens and your disputes all by myself?
Choose some wise understanding respected men from each of your tribes and I will set them
over you.
And you answered me.
What you propose is good.
Okay.
That story is familiar.
It does, except for Jethro was the one who said, Hey, Moses, you can't bear these burdens.
Yeah.
In fact, we actually had Pastor Clint on that episode.
We were talking about like the burden of leadership.
And so it's interesting that Moses comes back and he's like, well, I realized that it was
too much.
And that's where we said like, technically like Moses probably in that conversation at
some point did say that.
When he came and brought it to the people, he just left off the part about Jethro.
Why did he leave off the part about Jethro?
It could be that he just didn't think it was important for the next generation to hear
about like Jethro was probably dead at that point.
Yeah.
You know, it's a different telling of this story.
It doesn't mean that it's wrong.
It means it's from a certain perspective.
And Moses could have said those things.
Exactly.
He could have been like, this is too much for me to bear after Jethro came to him.
Yeah.
We just don't have that written down.
Yeah.
Well, and there's, there's actually a very interesting concept and I might, I might get
into it in this first couple of episodes that of something that Rabbi David Foreman talked
about about why Moses believes he's not going into the promised land.
And it actually has to do with this thing where he says you have become too heavy and
I couldn't carry you.
Yeah.
So put a pin in that idea and then maybe we'll come back to it later.
So the other place that I think is really interesting is he says we're going to take
these people and then they talk about sending the spies out, which by the way, coming up
in a lot in this early part of Deuteronomy, I noticed this reading through and preparing.
There's a lot of it sounded good to me.
This sounds good to me.
It seemed good to me, which also drives me back to the book, Go Genesis, you know, this
one that it's, it was good, it was good, it was good.
But also this idea of eating from the tree of the fruit of the fruit of the tree of the
good and evil.
It seemed like a good idea.
Yeah.
Right.
And I said, well, for him, but in Deuteronomy 1 39, they go and they're going up to the
spies go in and they say, yeah, the, the idea seemed good to me.
I selected 12 of you, I sent them in.
They came back and they said, it's a good land that the Lord is giving us, but you were
unwilling to go up.
You rebelled against the command of the Lord your God.
So they, they're, they come back and they like, yeah, the land is great, but we're not
going to go and take it.
And I said to them in 29 says, do not be terrified.
Do not be afraid of them.
The Lord your God who is going before you will fight for you as he did for you in Egypt
before your very eyes and in the wilderness.
Then you saw the Lord, your God carried you by the way, highlight that word as a father
carries his son all the way you went until he reached this place.
In spite of this, you did not trust the Lord your God who went ahead of you on your journey
in, in fire by night and in cloud by day to search out places for you to camp and to show
you the way you should go.
So then God tells them that the people aren't going to be allowed in.
And then take a look at verse 37.
This is where I want to talk about Moses seeing things differently because of you, the Lord
became angry with me and said, you shall not enter it either, but your assistant Joshua,
son of none will enter it, encourage him because he will lead Israel to inherit it.
Now couple issues here.
That's actually not the place where God has that conversation with Moses, nor is that
actually what God says to him.
Like this is once again, Moses is recollection.
And one of the things that I think the Foreman points out that is really helpful is that
Moses sees the division of leadership in some capacity where he says, I'm not capable of
leading you eventually being the piece that actually leads him to not being able to lead
the people and them not trusting God.
Now that is like super interesting thing.
We're not going to get super deep into it, but I I've watched Foreman's videos on it
and it actually is pretty compelling.
But regardless, that's not actually what God says.
No, right.
That is not what God says.
And this isn't even the place in the story where God says that he doesn't say it after
they don't go into the land or after they go up and try to fight the people after God
says that you're not going to go.
Right.
It actually happens in an episode we actually talked about with water from a rock, right?
That's actually when God says, because you didn't recognize me as holy, you're not going
to lead these people into the land.
God was going to lead the people.
So that conversation does happen.
And I think in some capacity, we talked about this and Moses hears you're not going to lead
the people as you're not going to go in.
And from that point on, I postulated, does he learn his lesson about being OK with what
God is doing and supporting the next generation?
Yeah, because God's thinking generationally.
So then they they're told to leave Moab, who are the descendants of lot alone.
And then they also are told to leave the descendants of Esau, who is Jacob's, Jacob's brother.
Yeah.
They said you need to leave them alone, too.
And what I love about this is it's just it's just confirmation of God keeping his promises,
because nothing about like Esau's, the Edomites or the Moabites were particularly good people.
But it was the promise of God.
And that's really profound.
Yeah.
So and then Israel, they go and they engage in some of their first battles.
Yep.
So they're meeting Shehan, the king of Heshbon.
I love it when you say Hebrew names.
And this is this is why you want me to say this.
The king of Bashan.
Yeah.
Ben's like, you butchered that horribly.
And I'm like, I know.
And I don't care.
Well, some to note there is Israel actually isn't a particularly strong army.
Right.
They are slaves.
Right.
They're newly freed.
Right.
They do not have military might prowess or anything like that.
What they do have is the Lord.
Yeah.
And the Lord is going before them.
When they're relying on the Lord, they're winning battles.
Yeah.
And when they are not, guess what?
They don't win.
Well, we have we have evidence of that all throughout their story so far.
You have the Exodus itself where God says walk through on the dry land and then he takes
care of the entire Egyptian army.
Yeah.
Then you have the Amalekites in the desert.
And he says, you need to keep Moses's arms up.
It has nothing to do with your physical ability.
It's whether or not Moses's arms are up banner of heaven above you.
Right.
We talked about that.
And, you know, Baelic was concerned about them because they mowed over the Amorites.
The Amorites were technologically advanced and they were kicking everybody's butt.
And then they just mowed right over them, not because they're great once again, but
because somebody else was great through them.
Well, they were actually told to leave Egypt in a hurry.
Yeah.
So a lot of times when we read of these battles, we've we pictured two armies like full battle
gear.
Right.
So they were two who weren't full battle gear.
Yeah.
It would actually be really strange if they had a bunch of weapons.
Yeah.
You know?
So they were probably looked more like farmers, peasants, people like that with rudimentary
kind of low tech weaponry.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's reasonable to think that in the year that they were at Sinai, they
probably made some weapons.
Yeah.
And they've been wandering out for 40 years.
So let's not pretend like they.
They accumulated some stuff, but it's not like a standardized.
But it's also this is the next generation that is actually going and these are their
fights.
You know, these are the first fights that they've had because the previous ones have
been the other generation.
Yeah.
And so I find it particularly interesting here, too.
Like I want to pause here because you and I talked about this and I told you I was definitely
going to bring it up in the podcast because part of the reason that sometimes people tune
into us is because they want to hear what we have to say, too.
Right.
I think verse 21 through the end of the chapter is very strange and I'm going to read it to
you.
Chapter three.
Yeah.
So they've just gone through and they just completely laid waste to those two kings.
Right.
And then it picks up in verse 21.
It says this at that time I commanded Joshua.
You have seen with your eyes all that the Lord your God has done to these two kings.
The Lord will do the same to all the kingdoms over there where you are going.
Do not be afraid of them.
The Lord your God himself will fight for you.
Very good.
At that time I pleaded with the Lord, sovereign Lord, you have begun to show your servant,
your greatness and your strong hand for what God is there in heaven or on earth who can
do the deeds and mighty works you do.
Let me go over and see the good land beyond the Jordan, that fine hill country and Lebanon.
But because of you, the Lord was angry with me and would not listen to me.
That is enough.
The Lord said, do not speak to me anymore about this matter.
Go up to the top of Pisgah and look west and north and south and east.
Look at the land with your own eyes since you are not going to cross this Jordan.
But commission Joshua and encourage and strengthen him for he will lead this people across and
will cause them to inherit the land that you will see.
So we stayed in the valley near Beth Pior.
Okay.
It's a weird statement, right?
Once again here he says that because the Lord was angry with me because of you.
So in Moses's mind, one way or the other, he links the fact that he's not going into
the promised land to the people's disobedience.
I've read numbers and I've read that story and I've read a lot of commentary on it.
It seems to me that in this story, Moses has nobody to blame except himself.
I mean, what do you think?
I think the primary blame is on Moses.
I also don't think the Israelites get a pass on it because they were disobedient.
The first generation was disobedient.
They did rebel against God in a number of ways ranging from golden calf to complaining
about God's provision, so on and so forth.
But in the story of numbers, it was 100% Moses who disobeyed and God said, your punishment
is this.
So do you think, and obviously this is where we play what if, so people please don't take
this as scripture, right?
We're making a statement here.
Do you think then what we're dealing with here is Moses maybe missing what God has been
trying to correct him on the whole time, which is that he still doesn't trust God?
Yeah, to a degree.
Because once again, he's here, he's like, God, I've begun to see, we've begun to see
what you can do.
Well, hold on a second, Moses.
So I would push back a little bit.
I would say part of it is because Moses doesn't trust God easily.
That's fair.
Because he does come around to trusting God, but it's usually kicking and screaming.
And that kicking and screaming goes all the way back to Exodus when God was like, hey,
Bernie Bush, you're going to do this.
And Moses gives four excuses.
And the fifth one is like, anybody else, just send someone else.
And God was like, no.
Yeah, well, and then Moses says, OK, well, I've begun to see it.
OK, well, first of all, you got your commission from a burning bush.
You went in and saw 10 massive plagues.
You saw the powerhouse of the entire region taken down by a bunch of water that you walk
through on dry land.
You got fed bread from the heavens and random quail that show up.
You're like, I don't know if you can make enough meat, God.
You saw the spirit and separated over onto 72 people.
Yeah.
Not to mention at night, there was a pillar of fire.
Yeah.
And then during the day, there was a pillar of cloud.
Even to like a couple of weeks ago, there is a bronze serpent that if you look at your
snake bite, won't kill you.
Right.
Like so it's not like Moses hasn't seen things.
So he says, well, we've begun to see why, because you've seen two of the enemy kings
wiped off the map.
Like that's that's your definition of God doing something like I don't know if like
he's just trying to butter God up or like what's going on here.
But like once again, in numbers, God doesn't say you can't go in.
He says you can't lead.
And he says that he's talking to Joshua.
He says, you know, don't be afraid.
The Lord is going to fight these battles for you.
And then immediately to God, he's like, can I go in, please?
I want to go in now.
Like, can I go in?
I want to go in.
And he's like, all right, do not bring this up again.
Joshua is going to lead them in.
Give him control.
And so once again, I'm wondering if there's this thing of like Moses maybe just isn't
ready to give up control.
I don't know.
That's something for you guys to think about, too.
We're not afraid of wrestling with the text.
Yeah.
Like one thing to add on to that is Joshua.
He was the one who was when they saw the armies over there.
He said, let's go.
Yeah.
Him and Caleb.
They're like, we got this.
Let's go.
Everyone else was like, they're too big.
Yeah.
They're too strong.
They're too mighty.
There's no way we can take them out.
Right.
Even though they've seen the works of the Lord.
Yeah.
Joshua was the one who's like, we got this.
Him and Caleb.
And if we ever just do literary characters, I'd love to track Caleb because Caleb does
so much stuff.
Like even into the book of Joshua, you're like, he's this old man.
He's like, I'll go take the hill country.
Yeah.
Right.
And so for the point being is that when we have that attitude of, okay, we got this.
Let's go.
God's with us.
Yeah.
Right.
Then God's going to be like, okay, I'm going to build you up.
And we have the attitude of Moses where we're like, are you sure God?
Are you positive?
And then like kicking and screaming.
I was thinking about something Marty has talked about on his podcast before Marty Solomon Baymaw
podcast, give him a plug again, where he says it's one thing when God gives you an instruction
and like you're verifying that it's God before you go forward.
But it's another one where you where God gives an instruction, you know, it's God.
And you're like, well, prove that you can actually do this.
Right.
Like one of them is I'm not going to go forward unless I know you're sending me.
And one of them is I'm not sure that you can handle this.
Well, in Israel's cases, they knew who it was.
Yeah.
Like it was clear as day.
Well, and so Joshua is the kind of leader he says, oh, God says go do this.
Like I guess we'll go do it because remember, this is also the guy who ends up leading them
to take Jericho with like the like worst battle plan ever.
In case anybody doesn't know, we're going to tell you the battle plan of Jericho.
Okay.
So they're going to go to the city with like massive walls.
So the battle plan that God has for them to go and take down Jericho is you're going to
march around the city once a day with everybody, with your worship team out front.
Right.
So you musicians on the front line.
Once a day for six days.
And on the seventh day, you're going to do it seven times.
And at the end of it, you're just going to blow your trumpets and yell at the walls and
you're going to win.
This is this is their battle strategy.
And now, of course, the the story is that the walls fall and that they go in and they
take Jericho.
Right.
But but Joshua doesn't question that.
He's just like, OK.
And do you know who does fear these things?
The enemies that see Israel coming.
Yeah, because they're hearing these stories.
Now I understand Jericho hasn't happened yet.
Yeah.
But they're hearing stories about a man on the hill who when his arms were raised, they
were losing the battle.
And when his arms fell down, they started winning.
They heard the stories about those guys who just rolled over the the Emirates.
Like they're hearing these stories and they're like, OK, there's something about these guys.
So so much so we can go back to Bailik and Bailam where Bailik's like, hey, Bailam, go
curse them.
Yeah.
Unless they're cursed, there's no way I can stand against them.
Right.
And so they're hearing these stories and they're recognizing God's power.
And Moses is still here.
Like, well, I've begun to see your power.
Yeah.
And so that's that's mostly why I have questions.
So if people are wondering, like, why I have questions, I was like, like, you need to put
this in context.
Say some things out loud.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, why Moses didn't trust God, that that is a far stretch from what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is Moses is a human like us.
There's a reason why there was a second Moses in Jesus Christ.
That's why I was saying that.
Yeah.
I would argue that Moses didn't trust easily.
Yeah.
And one of the things I think I want to stress really early on in Deuteronomy is I think the
tendency because I'm going to I'm going to push back on some of these these positions
of Moses.
The temptation is going to see me as standing and not believing that Moses was a great man
or that God did a ton of stuff to him.
That is going to be further from the truth.
Moses was fantastic, fantastic person.
In fact, the last story in Deuteronomy, we're going to be talking, giving him his kudos
and giving him his swan song because Moses did a lot for the kingdom of God that we should
all Gentiles and Jews alike be thankful for.
Yeah.
But we also need to recognize what he got wrong so that we can understand how that's
made right in Christ.
Yeah.
Right.
So moving forward, though, you jump jump over to chapter four a little bit.
The thing that strikes me that I just find really interesting is the next part is Moses
urging Israel to obey.
Yeah.
And part of me wonders in this part where it's like, OK, is he urging them to obey because
he recognizes where he disobeyed?
I mean, that's a great, great question.
Or is he urging them to obey just so that they are obeying?
Well, and coming on the heels of this, where he recognizes that he's now coming after God
trying to get something that he wants again, is he learning his lesson?
Yeah, perhaps.
I think that that's that's definitely a piece that I have to sit with that.
Yeah.
So he starts to prepare the next generation and he wants to remind them about the relationship
with God and how to keep that intact.
Right.
So don't fall into the traps of idolatry.
You know, retell the story of Sinai.
Like this is where we fell into some traps.
How your God is different from all the other gods.
And then he gets ready.
He's going to explain the law to them again.
And he's going to start with the Ten Commandments.
And he's also going to talk through something called the Shema, which we're going to talk
about next week.
That's actually the topic for next.
We're going to be getting into the ten words in Chapter five and Chapter six.
If you want to look ahead, we're going to be talking about these ten words again because
there's a reiterating from Exodus.
But then also he's going to step in and talk about something that the Jewish people would
say day in, day out, which is the Shema.
He's trying to say you need to build your foundation on something specific.
Yeah.
And I actually love that you pulled that out of Chapter four because, you know, I think
that's probably the right way for us to look at it is Moses is perhaps learning to trust.
He may have failed, but he's learning to trust.
But he can empower other people to trust.
He's going to empower other people to trust, which is a great conversation piece for us
in general is like, you're like, oh, well, I've failed.
OK, but can you empower other people to succeed where you failed?
I was it was interesting.
I was having a conversation with somebody about a something happened in their life and
it was a pretty significant thing.
So I'm not going to get into details.
And they were just talking about how it's really hard to share their story.
But it was an incredible story of how God like overcame like massive things in their
life to like put them back together.
Yeah.
And they're like, yeah, I can't really share the story because, you know, if people knew,
I was like, well, people should know.
Because your testimony is your greatest weapon.
Right.
And I think sometimes we may be so concerned with our reputation that we forget that we're
actually putting God's reputation on the line.
Yeah.
Right.
And that's why we're not sharing the story, not ours.
This is the exact we've mentioned this before, but it's the exact reason Paul's like, I'm
not here to please you.
Right.
I'm here to please God.
And well, and and Paul didn't shy away from the fact that he murdered people.
Yeah.
Like he murdered people in zeal for he believed for Adonai.
But he was actually opposing God.
Yeah.
And like, you don't think that his testimony made a difference?
That's like a whole nother podcast there.
Yeah.
Episode right there.
And I think that's, um, put a pin on that.
We might come back now.
Yeah.
But this empowering people to succeed where you failed.
Um, because you and I both been in ministry a while and you failed.
I failed.
Right.
And you.
Yes.
No, I failed.
I failed plenty.
But we all failed.
And part of building leadership up is putting is building people up to succeed where we
fail.
Right.
And that's been my life in the ministries I've led where I failed horribly.
Yeah.
And it's been like my dad was saying a few weeks ago, it's like God pick up the pieces.
You're better at putting this back together than I am.
Right.
Um, letting God do that and then building people up to be like, Hey, you're going to
step into this.
And by the way, here's some pitfalls that I ran into.
Right.
Well, and, and part of raising people to be kingdom people, it's going to be messy if
people start trying to live kingdom principles out.
Yeah.
And so as pastors, as teachers, as Christians, as small group leaders, as you know, just
interacting with our fellow believers, are you willing to engage the mess?
Yeah.
Because it's going to be messy.
But it's also the only way to actually make real progress.
Yeah.
You know, we talked a couple of weeks ago about go out.
It's like, can you imagine if you have an entire church?
It's like, well, we agree on everything.
That's weird.
Right.
It's weird that you agree on it.
Yeah.
If you agree on everything, like you're probably a cult because there's not a whole lot of
independent thought going on.
And that's not to say you don't have unity.
Unity does not mean uniformity.
Let's say that again.
Unity does not mean uniformity.
Like that's really important because I think a lot of, a lot of damaging theology comes
from that dogma.
Right.
Yeah.
It comes from this idea that you have to think like me in order to follow Jesus.
No, you need to follow Jesus to follow Jesus.
And what he thinks is more important than we think.
There was actually a, there was a great video and I think I sent it to you about this person
who was talking about church and they're like, oh, why doesn't your church do, you know,
blah, blah, blah.
And they're like, well, we're a bunch of people who get together, who think that, you know,
the things that Jesus thinks is more important than the things that we think.
And so we tend to try to figure out like what Jesus thinks about things and go and do that
because, and then he's like, well, what about like when people think blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
I was like, well, we tend to sing songs about Jesus who, and how his ideas are better than
our ideas.
We like his ideas more than our ideas and how our ideas don't matter, but his really
do.
And then, and they're like, so you're always welcome to be here, but like, that's why we're
here and you're always welcome.
Like, but the reason we're coming together is because we think Jesus is more important
than us.
You know, right.
And, and like, you know, they're obviously being slightly sarcastic, but like it's true.
I mean, that's why churches should be gathering because we actually believe that God's, God's
ideas are better than ours.
And can you imagine what the church looks like when we actually live like that?
Yeah.
Right.
I'm going to say this next statement and I want to be very clear.
You should be getting something out of going to church.
Yeah, you should be.
Okay.
But church is not about you.
Right.
You are called to be a part of it.
There's multiple places in scripture where there's precedent for that, but it's not about
you.
It's about you coming together with the rest of the body, the rest of the family.
Okay.
And giving praise to Jesus, glorifying him and going and doing his work.
Being empowered.
Yeah.
As, as the church, the, the Ecclesia, the gathered ones, the dwelling place of the Holy
Spirit, you're empowered by your gatherings because we are the dwelling place of the Holy
Spirit.
So I think it's completely appropriate to say that I have the Holy Spirit inside of
me, but we collectively, the church are the place of the Holy Spirit.
So I remember a conversation I had with a couple of people years, years ago, but there,
one person was talking about just like, oh, well, church I'm going to is really difficult
because I'm not getting anything out of it.
And I was like, well, you should serve that.
You should find a way to serve in your church because there are people who are getting something
out of it and you are now in a spot to where then you could be a blessing to them.
Right.
And they're like, well, but I need to be fed.
And I was like, but at some point feeding, being fed becomes your responsibility.
I had a, I had a pastor and I'm going to, I'm going to tag him in here.
Probably.
Uh, Aaron couch made, made the statement.
He, uh, he teaches at a church in Colorado now.
Um, but he made a comment about people when they go to church and said, well, I just not
getting fed.
I'm not getting fed.
And I think we've talked about, I talked about this earlier on the podcast, but he, he says,
you know what happens when you eat and eat and eat and eat and you never go.
So it's called constipation and you can die from it.
There's like, some of you in here are spiritually contemplated because you've been eating and
eating and eating and you've never shared a thing.
Right.
And like, to your point, you're like, Oh, I'm not getting anything out of this.
It was like, well, when was the last time you gave something like we are meant to be
conduits.
Yeah.
Oh, God's mercy.
Yeah.
Right.
So it's from heaven to earth.
One of the things that I love about like when we're filled with the Holy spirit, we're actually
supposed to be bringing the spirit wherever we go and like bringing God's presence wherever
we go and constantly being filled.
It's a renewing of our mind and our heart.
And this idea ties right back into the end of what we're talking about where Moses is
starting to build the people up to go into the right to where he's saying, okay, you've
seen all these things you've experienced God in all these ways.
Now it is your turn to step up.
It's going to his land.
These are going to be your battles.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
It doesn't get much better than that.
Like this, this is, this is a, so hopefully today you got a good handle on Deuteronomy
and like how this book is structured and really where we're coming from.
It's a different kind of piece of literature.
You can't read it the same as you can read Exodus.
Yeah.
Right.
And so we're going to try to pull these apart.
We're actually going to have a number of guests throughout Deuteronomy.
We're actually going to probably just have more guests in general.
If you have somebody you'd like to see us bring on and talk with, like choose an email,
you know, comment on one of our posts and we'll, we'll see if we can't get them on here.
We're always looking for people to come and join the conversation because more Christians,
more believers need to have authentic, real conversations about love and context.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Amen.
Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
You're going to be like, Oh man, those blobs are making some real good points.
Yeah.
We're so glad you guys are being here.
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putting it out there.
So take care and until next time, until next time.
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If you've been with us the last 35, 34, if you've been with us last, hold on a second.
Here's your dad's right.
Bailik and Bailam ending numbers.
And so this would be 35.
Yeah.
Okay.
If you've been with us the last 35 episodes, you know that we've been in Torah and a dang
it.
We've been in Torah for the last 35.