1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,080 Welcome to the Love and Context podcast, engaging in unscripted conversations with your hosts, 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:07,320 Ben and Spencer. 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,420 Whether you're tuning in from your car, your office, your home, or anywhere in between, 4 00:00:11,420 --> 00:00:15,140 we are so happy to have you join us today. 5 00:00:15,140 --> 00:00:21,040 Our mission is simple, to explore the Bible through a powerful lens of love. 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:26,200 Together we'll uncover fresh insights and gain deeper understandings of how we can love 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,560 God and love the people in our everyday lives. 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:34,840 So buckle up and join us on this spiritual journey as we discover timeless wisdom that 9 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,680 is just as relevant today as it was thousands of years ago. 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,440 Without further ado, let's dive right in. 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:46,620 All right, welcome to the Love and Context podcast with Ben and Spencer. 12 00:00:46,620 --> 00:00:47,620 I am Ben. 13 00:00:47,620 --> 00:00:48,620 I'm not Ben. 14 00:00:48,620 --> 00:00:50,840 Yeah, I think people can probably see that at this point. 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:51,840 Yeah, I'm Spencer. 16 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,120 Yeah, you're seeing us again. 17 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,960 And once again, we do apologize because if your cameras are breaking, your screens are 18 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:57,960 freaking out. 19 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,000 No, not those guys. 20 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,200 We actually have a special guest today. 21 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,880 You want to introduce our special guest? 22 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:03,880 Yeah. 23 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,040 So this guy has had a big impact on my life. 24 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:07,040 His name is Ed. 25 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,560 He's also known as my dad. 26 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,000 So he time if you're like, you feel like, hey, I want to hear embarrassing stories about 27 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,640 Spencer like he's the guy to talk to. 28 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,780 So he's probably got a few of those. 29 00:01:16,780 --> 00:01:19,200 So but a few, a few, a few. 30 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,200 Yeah. 31 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:25,880 So, Mr. Ed McDowell, he has worked in Christian camping for, is it 27 years? 32 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:26,880 Yeah, that's right. 33 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:27,880 Oh, sweet. 34 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:28,880 I got the first guess. 35 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:29,880 That's awesome. 36 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:30,880 27 years. 37 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,280 He's been the board chair for the Christian Camp and Association across the US. 38 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:40,600 He's worked in pastoral ministry in a number of different churches in Oregon and Colorado. 39 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,320 Served as dean of students a long time ago at Central Christian College. 40 00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:47,040 So yeah, published author. 41 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,240 He's got his own set of devotional books, which are awesome. 42 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:51,240 Excellent. 43 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:52,240 We'll put a link into those in the description. 44 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:53,240 Yeah, absolutely. 45 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,000 Can you get those on like Amazon and stuff or? 46 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,000 Yeah. 47 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,000 Perfect. 48 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,000 Excellent. 49 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,000 Perfect. 50 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,680 Well, we're really excited you're here. 51 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,560 Do you have anything to say before we get rolling? 52 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,240 Well, it's great to be with you. 53 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:10,080 And I have been taking in and enjoying the Love and Context podcast. 54 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,400 And some of the things you have said have made it into other messages that I've shared 55 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,040 or devotional gatherings or campfire conversations. 56 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,880 And so I really appreciate the input that you're pouring into my life through this. 57 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,200 So thanks for having me with you today. 58 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:27,800 Man, what a gracious man. 59 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:28,800 What happened to you? 60 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:29,800 We do. 61 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:30,800 Thank you so much. 62 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:31,800 One disclaimer to this. 63 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:32,800 I do need to apologize. 64 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:33,760 There is one story I told about my childhood on the podcast that my mom listened to and 65 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:34,760 she says that I told the story wrong. 66 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:35,760 That's not super surprising because in fact, I think actually when we get into Deuteronomy, 67 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:36,760 we're going to talk about how like Moses is at the end of his life retelling the stories. 68 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:37,760 And there are some times when he tells the stories that are painted definitely in the 69 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:38,760 same way that he does in the story. 70 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:39,760 And I think that's a really good example of how Moses is at the end of his life retelling 71 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:40,760 the stories. 72 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:41,760 And there are some times when he tells the stories that are painted definitely in the 73 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:42,760 same way that he does in the story. 74 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:57,760 And I think that's a really good example of how Moses is at the end of his life retelling 75 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,760 the stories. 76 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:06,780 So today we're going to be in Numbers 21. 77 00:03:06,780 --> 00:03:10,320 So if you have not read that, there's this wonderful new fangle technology. 78 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:11,320 It's called a pause button. 79 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:12,320 You can pause it and go read it. 80 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,600 And then come back and join us after you read it. 81 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,800 That's where we are going to be today. 82 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,800 Yeah. 83 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:24,280 So just a reminder, like we are just we're coming off the heels of this story of Moses 84 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:29,400 is supposed to speak to the rock and instead he chastises the people and decides to strike 85 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,680 the rock a couple of times, which I mean, Ed, you can probably tell me, but you know 86 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,560 guys in ministry, they always do exactly what God tells them to do. 87 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:37,560 Right. 88 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:38,560 Oh yeah. 89 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:39,560 Well, what's all right. 90 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:40,560 Right. 91 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,760 And I can tell you that's a big challenge is just having to come back and say, God, 92 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:45,960 can you clean up after me? 93 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,360 I'm so sorry. 94 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,680 Thank goodness he's a lot better cleaning up our messes and he's faster at cleaning 95 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,360 them up than we are at making them, which is very impressive. 96 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:02,480 So this whole section and we've kind of seen this thing with Israel and they're struggling 97 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,200 with this question of are they going to trust God? 98 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:06,200 Right. 99 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:07,200 Because they have this question. 100 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,200 They're like, oh, we don't have water. 101 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,880 Oh, we have this bread, but we don't really like this bread. 102 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:11,160 Oh, we don't want to go into the land. 103 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,800 There's the, uh, the Amalekites and they're huge. 104 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,200 There's a Nephilim, you know, we don't want to fight them. 105 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,640 And over and over again, to the point where they're like, well, maybe we should appoint 106 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:19,640 a new leader. 107 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,120 We're going to go back to Egypt. 108 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,140 And it's over and over again, God say, do you trust me? 109 00:04:23,140 --> 00:04:24,140 Do you trust me? 110 00:04:24,140 --> 00:04:26,600 And the resounding answer has been no. 111 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,840 To now the point last week, even Moses and Aaron are struggling to trust God. 112 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:31,840 Right. 113 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:34,920 Which I actually was talking to a friend of mine this week who listened to the episode 114 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,760 and he made a comment and I thought it was really worth sharing. 115 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:45,080 He said, if you as a leader have your fellowship, that is just doesn't trust and doesn't trust 116 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,540 and doesn't trust, you have to really put yourself on guard because it very easily can 117 00:04:49,540 --> 00:04:50,540 become you. 118 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:51,540 Right. 119 00:04:51,540 --> 00:04:55,920 Uh, like that's a huge takeaway from like Moses's story here. 120 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,080 So all that complaining, everything that's going on. 121 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:03,080 And then we get into, uh, numbers 21, they have a, they have a quick victory over Arad 122 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:04,920 and then, uh, they're in verse four. 123 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:05,920 We're just going to pick up here. 124 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,800 So 21 verse four says they traveled from Mount whore along the route to the Red Sea to go 125 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,840 around Edom, but the people grew impatient on the way, which has never happened. 126 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:18,420 Not to any point up in the story. 127 00:05:18,420 --> 00:05:23,700 They spoke against God and against Moses and said, have you brought us up out of Egypt 128 00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:25,300 to die in the wilderness? 129 00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:31,440 There's no bread, there's no water, and we detest this miserable food. 130 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,380 Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them. 131 00:05:33,380 --> 00:05:35,280 They bit the people and many Israelites died. 132 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:38,760 The people came to Moses and said, we send when we spoke against the Lord and against 133 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,060 you pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us. 134 00:05:41,060 --> 00:05:46,600 So Moses prayed for the people and Lord said to Moses, make a snake and put it on a pole. 135 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,620 Anyone who has bitten can look at it and live. 136 00:05:48,620 --> 00:05:51,180 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it on a pole. 137 00:05:51,180 --> 00:05:54,380 Then when everyone was bitten by the snake, they look at the bronze snake and they would 138 00:05:54,380 --> 00:05:55,380 live. 139 00:05:55,380 --> 00:05:58,340 Now, I don't know how many times I've read that story. 140 00:05:58,340 --> 00:06:02,200 And if you don't have like John three in the back of your head, sometimes you're reading 141 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,440 this and you're like, this is a weird story. 142 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:05,440 Right? 143 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,060 Because like there's a few weird things that are going on here. 144 00:06:08,060 --> 00:06:09,060 First I want to point out. 145 00:06:09,060 --> 00:06:14,320 So a few weeks ago, we talked about this Hebrew word of like this murmuring, this discontent 146 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,120 that was going on underneath. 147 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,400 That's gone. 148 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,280 Now they're just like, we don't like it, God. 149 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:23,440 We don't like it, Moses. 150 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:24,440 Like they're they're literally there. 151 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,600 It's no longer a grumbling in the background. 152 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:27,880 Now they're just full on complaining. 153 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,440 Like they're shouting it out. 154 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:30,440 Right? 155 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,200 So it's a it's an escalation for sure. 156 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,880 The the Hebrew word is bar, meaning to speak or declare. 157 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:42,400 Now I always think of that spot in the office where they tell Michael Scott that he has 158 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,800 to declare bankruptcy. 159 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,520 And so he walks out into the office and he goes, I declare bankruptcy. 160 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,600 He goes, Mike, you actually have to file a paper. 161 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:52,600 You can't just declare it. 162 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:53,600 He's like, I didn't say it. 163 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:54,600 I declared it. 164 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,640 So that works real well. 165 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,520 It's always that's always in the back of my head. 166 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,240 Like whenever somebody says like in the church, when people say declarations of peace and 167 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:10,040 goodness and mercy from God, and I'm like, I'm always like, I declare blessing, you know. 168 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,040 But that's neither here nor there. 169 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,160 Sorry, that was a tangent. 170 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:15,160 There we go. 171 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:21,400 That was there's a really interesting thing, because when you're looking at numbers for 172 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:27,760 particularly verse five, it actually echoes back to excess three and four, too, as well, 173 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,520 where Moses at the end of giving his list of excuses is like, I just don't want to. 174 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,160 Yeah, like please send someone else. 175 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,160 Right. 176 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,160 I don't want this. 177 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,360 And God, God in his anger at that moment, sends him Aaron, right? 178 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,240 Like still provides in his anger, not in his anger, in his frustration. 179 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,640 And you actually see that echoed in this story, that nature of God where he's like, okay, 180 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,200 we will, he's like, I'm going to provide a way for you to be healed from these snake 181 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,720 from these snake bites. 182 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:56,720 Right. 183 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:57,720 Right. 184 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:58,720 And so, yeah, totally, absolutely. 185 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,280 There's there's there is respite in the end. 186 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:02,280 Right. 187 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:03,280 So I want to kind of go through the story. 188 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:04,760 So first off, not a grumble. 189 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:05,760 This is a declaration. 190 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:06,760 Right. 191 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:12,400 So, Ed, you've been in church, when it moves from grumble to declaration, you went from, 192 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,240 hey, we should have a private meeting to maybe we should have a family meeting as a church. 193 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:17,240 Right. 194 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:18,960 Yeah, I've seen that in church. 195 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,360 I've, I've even seen that in family. 196 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:22,360 Yeah. 197 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,200 Where, you know, you just can't let it go on and you've got to get people together and 198 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,640 talk about it for what it is. 199 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:29,640 Mm hmm. 200 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,240 Well, and so then moving from that, then they start saying, we don't have bread, we don't 201 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,640 have water, we detest this food. 202 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,640 Now, okay, first of all, you're like, I don't have bread, I don't have water, both things 203 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,520 we know that they have because we just saw the previous scripture. 204 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:44,520 Right. 205 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,100 So we know they have both of those water, bread still coming from heaven, they still 206 00:08:47,100 --> 00:08:49,340 have quail, all these things that God is still providing. 207 00:08:49,340 --> 00:08:50,600 So what food are they talking about? 208 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,640 It has to be the man and quail that they don't like. 209 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:53,640 Right. 210 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,880 So it's not that they don't have bread, they just don't have bread that they want. 211 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:56,880 Yeah. 212 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:02,480 Which, by the way, I've never heard that comparison to the American church before, right? 213 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:03,480 No. 214 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:08,600 Where we're like, God, I want this, not this. 215 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,800 It's like one of those things where you don't pray for patience because God will give you 216 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:12,800 people you can't handle. 217 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:18,120 Well, this is a good spot for us to jump into just a conversation about God's provision 218 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,640 rarely coming how we expect it to come. 219 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:21,640 Right. 220 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,160 And so I like, I've experienced that in my life, where am I? 221 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,200 Okay, Lord, I need your provision here. 222 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,240 And then it comes in a really weird roundabout way. 223 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:30,240 Right. 224 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:31,240 Right. 225 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,000 Dad, I'm sure you've experienced that in your life too. 226 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,240 I think the heart of this is that it's that they're not in control of how the provision 227 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,240 happens. 228 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:41,240 Yeah. 229 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:49,440 And I think that takes it right to where we all get stuck so many times is I'm complaining 230 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,640 about your provision because I actually want to be in control of how the provision happens. 231 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:58,600 Well, that goes all the way back to Exodus when Pharaoh is confronting God. 232 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,000 He wants control over the situation. 233 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,680 He's like, well, do you want these plagues to end? 234 00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:05,680 He's like, yes. 235 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:07,480 He's like, when do you want them to end? 236 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:12,280 He's like, now, if I got a thousand frogs in my living room, I'm saying this second. 237 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:13,280 Right. 238 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:18,880 But Pharaoh's like three o'clock tomorrow because his thing and what Rabbi David Foreman 239 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,520 is talking about in those texts is that Pharaoh is trying to see what kind of control does 240 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,600 God actually have because Pharaoh is the guy who wants control. 241 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:26,600 Right. 242 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:32,560 Once again, are we buying into the narrative of empire in Egypt or are we buying into this 243 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:35,400 empire of Shalom and following God? 244 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:36,400 Peace. 245 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,800 You know, being led in the desert by a voice. 246 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:39,800 Yeah. 247 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,400 Which, you know, you see this grumble, he's grumbling against, they're grumbling against 248 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:44,640 God, they're grumbling against Moses. 249 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,840 They say, we don't like anything that you're providing. 250 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:47,840 What are they really saying? 251 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,720 They're saying, we don't want you here. 252 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,240 We want to be back in Egypt. 253 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:57,080 Which leads into the next part where they actually says that God sends these snakes. 254 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,120 Now I always thought that was an overreaction. 255 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,120 Right. 256 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,560 Like, we don't like this bread here, have a snake, which by the way, I don't know if 257 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:07,000 you caught that, but Jesus actually tells a parable about that. 258 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,040 When somebody asks for bread, who would give them a snake? 259 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,080 And you're like, that's a really weird thing. 260 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,160 It's almost like it's happened in the text before, huh? 261 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,080 It's almost like Jesus knows his Torah. 262 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,720 It's like he's the Torah made flesh. 263 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,680 And so I got into this because I was like, I don't quite understand what's going on 264 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:24,680 here. 265 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:29,040 And so the word there for scent isn't actually the word we would normally use for scent. 266 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:34,200 It's actually a Hebrew word called shalach and it is a verb meaning to let go. 267 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:35,200 Okay. 268 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,780 So the implication there is that God has a hold of the snakes and he's had a hold of 269 00:11:38,780 --> 00:11:43,440 snakes and they say, I don't want you to be here. 270 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,880 And so God says, okay, be in the desert by yourself then. 271 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,880 And he just releases his protection. 272 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,760 And I think that's really interesting because if you look in Deuteronomy 29 and five and 273 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,440 we're not there yet, God actually, Moses is going to make a statement that says that God 274 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,320 actually makes sure that the clothes don't wear out and that their shoes are still standing. 275 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:06,120 And God's presence is the cloud as we see here in Exodus and numbers. 276 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:07,320 And it's the fire that went with them. 277 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,200 We've talked about that's protection from the heat, that's protection from the cold 278 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,720 and God has been going and they've been protected everywhere that they've gone, every place 279 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:14,720 that they've gone. 280 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:20,440 So in this case, God doesn't so much send snakes as he removes what he's been withholding. 281 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:21,640 Right? 282 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,940 That's a good conversation about our lives because I don't know how many times people 283 00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:29,120 talk about they're like, Oh God is just sending adversity into my life. 284 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,400 Well is he sending adversity into your life or has there always been adversity and you're 285 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,920 no longer right in the middle of his will? 286 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,320 Because I read stories by like Corey Tim Boone. 287 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:44,040 She's sitting in the Nazi concentration camps covered in lice malnutrition, being beaten 288 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,040 every day. 289 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,560 And she's like, Oh, the glory of the Lord was in that place. 290 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:48,560 Right? 291 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:55,200 She's more content in a Nazi concentration camp than we are in our air conditioned house. 292 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,120 Like something is different and maybe the adversity you're facing has more to do with 293 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,440 the fact that you're not right in the center of God's will and that you're relying on your 294 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,160 own power to Ed's point than actually relying on God's. 295 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,400 I always feel like I should call you like Dr. Ed. 296 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,360 Well, please don't. 297 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:10,360 Do you have a doctorate? 298 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:11,360 Because that'd be great. 299 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:12,360 No, I'm not worthy. 300 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,520 Do you have a master's because I could call you master Ed. 301 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,440 Yeah, you think this is not. 302 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,400 I think this is getting ridiculous. 303 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,600 I'll stop talking because I did a lot of talking leading up to that. 304 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:28,840 So it is a great conversation piece to have of are we living in like, where's the adversity 305 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:29,840 coming from? 306 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:30,840 Like is it coming? 307 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,840 Like, because I don't want to deny the I don't want to deny the fact that there are 308 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,320 times where God does send adversity into our lives. 309 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:37,320 Absolutely. 310 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,480 Because there is scripture to back that. 311 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,880 And you could look at this one, you could argue either way, but you could look at Job's 312 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,520 life where God where Satan's like, I want to mess with this guy. 313 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,400 And God's like, okay, right, right. 314 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,520 Like in sense, God was giving permission for Satan to be sent to mess with Job. 315 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,640 So you can look there's stories like that. 316 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,520 There's also times where we just step out of the will of the Lord. 317 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,640 And then we're like, man, why are things? 318 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,200 Why why is my peace gone? 319 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,440 Why is my anxiety up? 320 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,200 Why is my fill in the blank? 321 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:08,200 Right. 322 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,120 And then we step out of the will of the Lord, we start to see those things crumble around 323 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,120 us. 324 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:17,360 And sometimes and the beautiful thing about it is in that crumbling, oftentimes the Lord, 325 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,880 actually, are you always the Lord meets us and draws us back in. 326 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:22,880 Right. 327 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,720 That doesn't mean we, we still have to live with the consequences of what happened, but 328 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,520 the Lord meets us there and draws us back in. 329 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,260 And it's such a beautiful thing. 330 00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:37,760 If you were to go over to Hebrews four, it's this, it begins with, so does God's promise 331 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,520 of entering his promised rest still stand. 332 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:48,320 And right on the back of that is how so many people in the children of Israel missed out 333 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:54,380 while wandering, you know, and God was providing it right in the zone of where we're talking 334 00:14:54,380 --> 00:14:56,380 about today. 335 00:14:56,380 --> 00:15:02,760 And he really comes on and says, look, you run the risk of missing out yourself. 336 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,400 It comes back to this whole idea of trust. 337 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:13,720 And then there's this very real connection that you get down to verse 12 of chapter four 338 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:21,280 and yet it talks about his word, being able to work in places in our lives that take incredible 339 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:22,280 precision. 340 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:33,680 You know, he talks about separating mind and soul and marrow and bone and desires and thoughts. 341 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:38,720 I mean, just these, and it says his word can help us sort that out. 342 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:46,160 And then it ends back with, which brings us back towards some of the imagery of today. 343 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,840 It ends with Jesus understands all of this. 344 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,520 He's experienced all of it. 345 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:58,120 The only thing he didn't do was the sin part, but he experienced everything else and he's 346 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,980 there to help us and invite us to get the help we need through this. 347 00:16:02,980 --> 00:16:07,320 Would you say then, Ed, a lot of times we are forgetting, because God makes a comment 348 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,920 in Torah or actually I think it's in Jeremiah or Isaiah where he says, I led you like a 349 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:12,920 bride. 350 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:13,920 This is intimate time with God. 351 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:14,920 This is important time. 352 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:15,920 And it's not easy. 353 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,340 You're still in the desert. 354 00:16:17,340 --> 00:16:20,400 Even if God is removing snakes and all those things and providing bread and stuff, it's 355 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,200 still difficult. 356 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:27,980 But would you say that sometimes as Christians, we have a tendency to try to avoid the deserts 357 00:16:27,980 --> 00:16:30,280 and so we miss that intimate time with God. 358 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,280 We miss out the wonder moving of God because we're not willing to be a little uncomfortable 359 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:35,280 in his. 360 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,280 Oh yeah. 361 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:37,280 Yeah. 362 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,280 Yeah, completely. 363 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:43,960 And I think that what we're looking for so often is circumstantial harmony or harmony 364 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,880 with the physical space and surroundings. 365 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:52,840 What God's saying is I have the capacity to give you everything you need so that you can 366 00:16:52,840 --> 00:17:02,360 show up and live in a way in whatever circumstance that can actually be described as being filled 367 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,400 with rest, which is what I think about. 368 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:06,400 Oh yeah. 369 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:13,000 Well, and then also like back to your point on Hebrews 4, there is power in rest. 370 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,720 Like Hebrews 4.12, I've often found it gets quoted out of context because you read the 371 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,880 verses before that, it's all about resting on the Lord. 372 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:20,880 It's true. 373 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,800 I think in Hebrews 4, the whole thing with the word being like the sword, I kind of feel 374 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,640 like people are always using it to dissect their neighbor. 375 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,040 That's frequently how we're using it and the whole thing is actually introspection. 376 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,880 Yeah, and it's used more so to dissect yourself. 377 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:34,880 Yeah. 378 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,560 It's almost like, you know, Jesus told this story. 379 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,120 Funny, you know that guy. 380 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:42,520 He told this story about a log in your online when you're trying to take out a spec. 381 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,520 You know? 382 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,160 I feel like the word of God might be helpful for that. 383 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,160 Yeah, absolutely. 384 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:47,880 No, that's so good. 385 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:48,880 Okay. 386 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:54,360 So in the story here, now God has released his protection around them and these are going 387 00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:58,920 out and they're biting people and I hate snakes, like just with a violent passion. 388 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,400 Like one of my favorite things about being in Alaska is we don't have snakes. 389 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,920 Like it's great. 390 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,680 It's so great. 391 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,080 So then the people realize when they start getting bitten and die that maybe they made 392 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,080 a bad choice. 393 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,080 Right? 394 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,160 Like it just seems likely. 395 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,640 So they ask Moses to pray to God and then once again, this is because they don't want 396 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:17,640 to talk to God. 397 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,400 It's been established back in Exodus because they're like, Oh God, your voice is too strong. 398 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,400 We don't want to talk to you. 399 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,080 Talk to Moses and he'll tell us what to do. 400 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,080 Right? 401 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,680 Which a lot of their issues come from the fact they're like, well, Moses, are you the 402 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:28,800 only one who talks to God? 403 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:35,040 Yeah, because you literally said to like, this is what you asked for. 404 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,080 And so you're like, yeah, that is what's happening. 405 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:43,760 And so he has him go and pray and Moses prays and God has him make this bronze serpent and 406 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,400 as him has it lifted up on high in the camp and if someone's bitten, they look at it and 407 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,400 they live. 408 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:50,400 Right? 409 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,920 What's interesting is God doesn't actually remove the snakes. 410 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,920 Like the snakes never go away now. 411 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,800 Like they're there. 412 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,080 The snakes are just there now. 413 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,800 Now he gives them the ability to live even when the snake bites. 414 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,440 Right? 415 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,240 Feels very Genesis to me. 416 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,240 Right? 417 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,800 I mean, like if I'm thinking Genesis three, I think that's a great connection to see what's 418 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,600 going on here is we think we know better than you. 419 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,120 Once again, you don't. 420 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,680 And once again, we have a snake causing problems. 421 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:23,680 Right? 422 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,280 But this time, even if you're getting bit by the snake, there's a way that you can live, 423 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:33,640 which also comes back to Cain and Abel Genesis four. 424 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,640 Why are you downcast? 425 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:35,680 Why are you angry? 426 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,560 If you do it as good, won't you be accepted? 427 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,000 But if you don't do what is good, sin is sitting at your door waiting to devour you, but you 428 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,240 must conquer it. 429 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,580 You have the option. 430 00:19:44,580 --> 00:19:45,580 Look up. 431 00:19:45,580 --> 00:19:46,580 Right? 432 00:19:46,580 --> 00:19:47,580 Yeah. 433 00:19:47,580 --> 00:19:54,400 Uh, this plays really well into like just because forgiveness has taken place, that 434 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,200 doesn't mean the consequences of our actions have gone away. 435 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,200 Right? 436 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,600 Or the repercussions of our actions have gone away. 437 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:05,040 There are times where we make decisions in our lives and yes, forgiveness and redemption 438 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,880 happens, restoration happens, but there's still consequences from those actions. 439 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:10,920 Right? 440 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,760 And so here you have the same, you have a similar thing happening where Israelites are 441 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,880 like, yeah, we, okay, we made a mistake and the Lord's like, okay, I'm going to provide 442 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:19,880 a way for healing. 443 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,840 But by the way, yeah, still like this is still going to be with you. 444 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:24,840 Right? 445 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,880 Like you still have to see that this is going to be with you. 446 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,400 Uh, and it's something you're going to have to live with. 447 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,400 Well, yeah. 448 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,280 And when, with that, that idea, we're going to have some commentary on this because I 449 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,680 think that there's a really, some really interesting things that God is doing. 450 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:38,800 One, he's having him put it on a pole. 451 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,080 It has to be high up in the sky. 452 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,080 Now, the only reason you do that is so everybody can see it. 453 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,880 But typically when you have like archways or anything in, uh, in like temples or in 454 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,180 anything that's going on in the, in the camp now, ideally there's probably be in the center 455 00:20:51,180 --> 00:20:52,180 near the tabernacle. 456 00:20:52,180 --> 00:20:54,200 That would be my guess given how they travel. 457 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,200 Right? 458 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,200 That'd be my guess. 459 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,360 It doesn't specifically say, but if you want everybody to be able to see it and having 460 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:00,520 it in the middle makes the most sense. 461 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:01,640 And you have to have it high. 462 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,720 Now in the book of Exodus, they're actually walking through the desert and they have a 463 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,360 encounter with the Amalekites who incidentally they've just been complaining about again. 464 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:13,800 Uh, they haven't, because they're like this desert nomadic people that are just like, 465 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,120 they always pick off the weak and God has Moses go and put his hands up in the air and 466 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:20,600 Aaron and, uh, who's the guy with, with Aaron and that story? 467 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,000 Did they remember? 468 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,000 No. 469 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,680 Aaron and the other guy who is very important. 470 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,680 So don't make like, take me forgetting his name as he's not important. 471 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:34,040 They stand next to Moses and the entire time that Moses has his hands up, like they win 472 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,520 the battle, but when his hands start to fall, they lose. 473 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:42,000 Now is it really about his hands or is it about what his hands are? 474 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,700 Like what's between his hands, which when they look up, he's up on a mountain top. 475 00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:45,700 They look behind his hands. 476 00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:49,520 They actually see the banner of heaven behind him, which is where God dwells in, in Hebrew 477 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:50,520 mind. 478 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:51,520 This is where God is. 479 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,680 So Moses actually has his hands up and whenever they look in the battle and they can see Moses 480 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,440 hands up, who are they really looking at? 481 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,320 They're looking through Moses to God. 482 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,020 That's a really important image for us to see. 483 00:22:02,020 --> 00:22:07,020 Now we have this bronze serpent that has been posted up on a pole wherever they go that 484 00:22:07,020 --> 00:22:12,380 if they're bit and death is coming to claim them, they look to this serpent, but they're 485 00:22:12,380 --> 00:22:14,360 not really looking to the serpent. 486 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:18,200 They're looking beyond the serpent because beyond the serpent is their salvation who's 487 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,760 providing it, which has got right. 488 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:26,000 Like this is a, this is a very, it's a very clear picture and it's not necessarily, uh, 489 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,320 spelled out in the text because a lot of times in these texts, like they assume that you 490 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,400 know things about like ancient temples and ancient cultures and things like that. 491 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,220 Um, which we as Americans probably do not do not. 492 00:22:38,220 --> 00:22:44,180 Now a couple interesting things to note, um, making idols is prohibited. 493 00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:47,460 So this is actually not an idol, right? 494 00:22:47,460 --> 00:22:51,000 This is a symbol that they're supposed to look at and drive them to God. 495 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,000 Yeah. 496 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,280 I specify that because I have a, I have a story and I know this person will never listen 497 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,320 to my podcast because it was years ago and they didn't like technology then, but I was 498 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,960 in a, I was serving in a church and I had somebody come up and tell me because we had, 499 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,960 we had moved the, you know, the, the almost every church, our older church has one, the 500 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,640 this do and remembrance of me table. 501 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:10,640 Yeah. 502 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,360 Like that's, that's where they put communion. 503 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:14,040 There's always a big Bible on it. 504 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,920 It was in the right in the center of the stage. 505 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,440 So like we had instrumentalist in front of it and instrumentalist behind it. 506 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:21,840 It was, it was in the way. 507 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,440 So I asked the pastor, could we move it to in front of the stage? 508 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,440 Right. 509 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,880 And I thought that was a fairly simple move that wouldn't cause any problems. 510 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,120 Boy, was I wrong. 511 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:35,720 And I had a, had a lady come up and she was furious. 512 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,180 Well, you'll love, you'll get a chuckle out of this ed. 513 00:23:39,180 --> 00:23:45,960 She says that table is the modern day arc of the covenant and you are putting it on 514 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:46,960 the floor. 515 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,680 It belongs on the stage and center. 516 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:53,320 And I was like, well, the arc of the covenant is supposed to be in the Holy of Holies where 517 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,120 the presence of God dwells. 518 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,240 That's actually the church people. 519 00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:59,840 So which I was younger then. 520 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,840 So please forgive my crassness and my directness, but it was, I was like, I was like, I'm pretty 521 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,660 sure that you're misunderstanding what the Bible's teaching, but we've taken symbols 522 00:24:08,660 --> 00:24:13,000 and even like to an extent, like the Christian cross, right? 523 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,080 One of the reasons it was such an effective symbol in those times is because it was a 524 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,160 item of ridicule. 525 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,080 Now it's a trendy piece that people put around their neck, right? 526 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,080 We're in danger. 527 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,240 I think sometimes of taking symbols like the cross and making them idols rather than using 528 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,520 the symbol to point at what it represents. 529 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:35,320 Yeah, that's a, that's not a very fair statement. 530 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,240 I've, I have similar stories to your table story. 531 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,000 I'm not going to recount them right now because they, is it your dad? 532 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000 He's going to listen to a podcast now. 533 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:51,280 No, no, my dad and I have always had great relationship for the most part. 534 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,760 I mean, it's a fair statement to say that there are times where we take symbols and 535 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,640 we elevate them above what they're supposed to represent. 536 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:58,640 Similar to your story. 537 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,360 I got stories like that, but I don't think we have time to recount all those today. 538 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,880 I got stories like that too, where, where people have been like, well, this is the most 539 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:06,880 important thing. 540 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,600 I'm like, actually that's a box. 541 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:15,160 So, but sometimes when we need to remember what these symbols represent, right? 542 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,280 And I want to be really clear. 543 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,960 Like we're not counting the work that happened on the cross. 544 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:19,960 Right. 545 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:20,960 Exactly. 546 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:21,960 The cross is super important. 547 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,360 Please hear us loud and clear on that. 548 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:24,920 The cross is super important. 549 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,660 It is fundamental in many ways. 550 00:25:27,660 --> 00:25:32,400 The work that happened on the cross is supposed to lead us to a place of forgiveness, restoration 551 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,480 and redemption with Jesus, with God through the work of Jesus. 552 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:37,480 Right. 553 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,480 Yeah. 554 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,960 Isn't that the, isn't that the challenge with the symbol? 555 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:47,800 About a year ago, you know, built about a 12 foot cross in our backyard and put it in 556 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,080 one of the gardens there. 557 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:58,940 And it was there because I wanted the reminder that having our lives always looking towards 558 00:25:58,940 --> 00:26:03,660 Christ in what we do is the important thing. 559 00:26:03,660 --> 00:26:14,320 It's not there to kind of show off religion or to show off my faith. 560 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,600 It really is there to say, let's keep my eyes fixed on Christ. 561 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,560 Let's keep our eyes on the one who's done this for us. 562 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,520 And I, you know, I think that's the goal of a good symbol. 563 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,360 And when elevated beyond its purpose, that's when it becomes problematic. 564 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:32,360 Yeah. 565 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:35,400 I had to work that in. 566 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,760 We haven't said a hundred percent yet. 567 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,400 So I've been holding back. 568 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,400 Yeah. 569 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,800 So one of the passages that I pulled up that kind of like, what reason I look at this serpent 570 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,920 being on the pole, lifted up high, they're looking past to see Jesus or to see God in 571 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,100 this case is it's all throughout scripture. 572 00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:57,620 So I just picked one where they talk about this, but in Isaiah 45 22, it says, turn to 573 00:26:57,620 --> 00:26:59,400 me and be saved. 574 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:04,280 All you ends of the earth, for I am God and there is no other by myself. 575 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:09,040 I have sworn my mouth has uttered in all integrity, a word that will not be revoked before me. 576 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,400 Every knee will bow by me. 577 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:11,720 Every tongue will swear. 578 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,680 They will say of me in the Lord alone, our deliverance and strength, all who have raised 579 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,420 against him will come to him and be put to shame, but all the descendants of Israel will 580 00:27:19,420 --> 00:27:23,280 find deliverance in the Lord and will make their boast in him. 581 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,840 Now turn to me. 582 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,440 Where is God? 583 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,440 In their mind, he's going to be in the sky, right? 584 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,360 In the heavens, in the cloud, right? 585 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:36,120 So to turn to him means you have to look up. 586 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:38,960 You have to look up where the serpent is up. 587 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,680 You need to look up to find your salvation. 588 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,320 You need to look up because that's where all help comes from. 589 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,400 You know, there's that song, I look to the mountains, right? 590 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,760 Pulling from the passage, I look to the mountain. 591 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:49,940 Why do you look to the mountains? 592 00:27:49,940 --> 00:27:51,920 Because God is up, right? 593 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,760 He looks, he's on the mountain like in Sinai. 594 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,680 And big reason I'm pointing that out is because we have a tendency to be like, oh, well, we 595 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,520 need to look up and we're talking about literally looking up. 596 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,960 No, the point is that you actually need to, to Ed's point, look past the cross to what 597 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,720 Jesus is doing, right? 598 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,760 The cross is meant for you to look towards so that you actually see the finished work 599 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,560 beyond the cross. 600 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:15,840 Yeah. 601 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,880 I think it's really interesting. 602 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,840 I think that the cross is fundamentally like this transfiguring work, like what God does 603 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:23,840 in our life, right? 604 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,600 The power over sin and death, everything that happens with that and the resurrection. 605 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:34,000 So many times we focus so much on that that we forget that there's stuff that comes after 606 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,080 that we're actually supposed to go because of this and be different. 607 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,960 Now, very American church idea. 608 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,640 What happens in second Kings? 609 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,840 They end up taking the bronze serpent and then they actually create it into an idol 610 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,600 and start worshiping it so that eventually Hezekiah has to come in and break it up and 611 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,440 throw it away because it's like, okay guys, literally not what this is for, right? 612 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,920 Not even a little bit. 613 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,000 But I think we have a tendency that we have like these sacred relics of our past and they 614 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,120 can be like, you think about people with VBS, okay? 615 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:10,800 Now VBS is an incredible tool for reaching people for Christ, right? 616 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,320 But if you think that VBS is what saves people, like you got a problem. 617 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,600 Like if you're like, oh, we can't reach kids without VBS, right? 618 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:25,320 Or you have like, if you're like, oh, we can't reach people without a specific kind of music, 619 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:30,240 you're actually now elevating this to the point of like an idol rather than a tool from 620 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,800 which to actually reach people. 621 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,400 Coming back to the like looking up piece. 622 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,360 So dad, the camp you work at, they put a big Christmas thing on every year, lots of Christmas 623 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,360 lights, right? 624 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,880 I've helped set that up a number of times. 625 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,540 We always had an inside joke whenever we were setting it up for like, oh, we don't need 626 00:29:44,540 --> 00:29:47,360 to hang lights higher than eight feet because nobody will look up. 627 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:48,840 Right. 628 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,040 That was always the joke. 629 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:55,120 But the reality is, is if we just turned the lights that were on that were eight feet high 630 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,200 and lower, it would have been a pretty dismal site. 631 00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,200 Right. 632 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,200 Yeah. 633 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,040 Like it would have been like, oh, it would have actually felt really dark. 634 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,040 Right. 635 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,720 It would have felt like there wasn't much to this. 636 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,520 It would have felt in many cases, it would have felt lazy, would have felt like unprepared, 637 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,880 like half, like kind of half thrown together. 638 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,400 So then when you turn, but then when all those lights illuminate above that eight foot mark, 639 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,680 which by the way, at this event is I would say probably three fourths of them are above 640 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:23,960 that eight foot mark. 641 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,940 When all those lights illuminate, then it becomes so bright to where you don't need 642 00:30:27,940 --> 00:30:29,200 a flashlight to walk around. 643 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,200 You don't need any of that. 644 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,240 Like there's just so much light everywhere that it encompasses everything. 645 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,240 Right. 646 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:42,200 However, those lights that are, those lights that are up that force us to look up, that's 647 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,360 what illuminates. 648 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:49,480 It's when we look up to Jesus, that things are illuminated in our lives, that things 649 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:54,960 actually begin, the good and the bad begin to be elevated in our lives so that we can 650 00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:00,240 take care of the bad and then that the good can shine. 651 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,760 But that happens when we look, right? 652 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,760 Like if street lights were only six feet off the ground, this is another crazy example, 653 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:08,760 right? 654 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:09,760 They wouldn't be that effective. 655 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,160 They wouldn't even go over my head. 656 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,160 Yeah. 657 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,160 Is that valid? 658 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,160 Yeah. 659 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:15,160 Yeah. 660 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,680 What is it with your guys' dogs? 661 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,040 Your dogs are your house. 662 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,280 So Zaller is Pepper's brother. 663 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,280 Yeah. 664 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,280 They just want to be on the podcast. 665 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,280 Yeah, they do. 666 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:25,280 Yeah. 667 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:26,280 Pepper's barked on a number of times. 668 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:32,200 So with that idea, now we've been in Numbers 21 and I want to shift this story because 669 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,280 this story comes up again in a really major way in the Gospel of John, right? 670 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,240 The brother serpent is mentioned twice again, once in Second Kings, like we talked about 671 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,360 where they decided to start worshiping and miss the point. 672 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,720 The second time is in John 3 when Jesus is having a conversation with a guy by the name 673 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,200 of Nicodemus. 674 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:54,400 Now they're having a conversation about who Jesus is, but Jesus keeps showing Nicodemus 675 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,680 who Israel was supposed to be, right? 676 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,080 This conversation, when you hear it, now we have the benefit of knowing what happens at 677 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:02,080 the end of the story. 678 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,080 Yeah, hindsight is 20-20. 679 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,560 But the conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus, like they don't necessarily think that 680 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,360 he's talking, like Nicodemus doesn't necessarily think he's talking about Jesus. 681 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:10,360 He's talking about Israel. 682 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,560 They're having this conversation about Israel, which later he's probably like, oh, I get 683 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:16,560 it. 684 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:17,560 There's like a double use here. 685 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,560 Can we also acknowledge that Nicodemus' questions are very practical? 686 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,560 Very practical. 687 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,680 Like, if I was in Nicodemus' shoes, I'd probably be asking the same questions. 688 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,640 Well, when he's like, should I enter my mom again and be born again? 689 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:35,640 I was like, my mom would be like, no, you were big enough the first time, right? 690 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,800 So they're having this conversation about how they're supposed to be a born again nation 691 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,760 because they've passed through water, the Red Sea, and the Spirit, which is like lots 692 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,320 of places in Torah, but we could talk about Numbers 11, right, where the Spirit's multiplied 693 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:49,320 on them. 694 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,240 They're the firstborn of God, right? 695 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,680 People ask, who's the firstborn of God? 696 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,920 Well, obviously that's Jesus, but it's also Israel, right? 697 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,000 Israel is God's firstborn. 698 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,000 He's chosen them out. 699 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,400 They're supposed to be a kingdom of priests to the entire world. 700 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,280 They're supposed to be actually putting God on display so that all nations would be blessed. 701 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,760 And Nicodemus, of course, doesn't really understand what he means by that, right? 702 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,160 By being born of the Spirit. 703 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:15,560 So Jesus talks back to him and he says this, very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we 704 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:22,040 know and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 705 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,060 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe. 706 00:33:25,060 --> 00:33:27,940 How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 707 00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:32,800 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the son of man. 708 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:38,440 Because Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the son of man must be lifted up that everyone 709 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,760 who believes may have eternal life in him. 710 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,000 Now we spent some time in Numbers 21. 711 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,520 Moving into John 3, I got a question. 712 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,480 Did God send sin into the world? 713 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,040 Yeah, I don't know if he did not. 714 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,520 No, of course he didn't. 715 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,640 Did God send the fiery serpents that bit people? 716 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:02,640 No. 717 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:03,640 No. 718 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,720 They are just no longer under his cloud. 719 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,920 They stepped out of the cloud and now they're living on their own. 720 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,520 Is there any help outside of God for those that are bitten? 721 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,700 No. 722 00:34:17,700 --> 00:34:24,360 Their only hope is to look up, to turn their face toward God, who is the only one who can 723 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,360 save them. 724 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,120 So with that in mind, now Jesus talking again of Israel, right? 725 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:34,560 And ultimately Jesus being a Jewish Messiah fulfills this, steps into this role, makes 726 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:39,640 a statement in John 3, 16 through 18, probably some of the most quoted verses in the Bible. 727 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:44,920 It says, for God so loved the world, he gave his one and only son, Israel, that whoever 728 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,580 believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 729 00:34:48,580 --> 00:34:52,880 For God didn't send Israel into the world to condemn the world, but to actually save 730 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,320 the world through him. 731 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,440 Whoever doesn't believe in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned 732 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,760 already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only son. 733 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,220 This mission that they're supposed to be about. 734 00:35:06,220 --> 00:35:07,220 This is the verdict. 735 00:35:07,220 --> 00:35:11,120 Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their 736 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,760 deeds were evil. 737 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,480 Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that 738 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,160 their deeds will be exposed. 739 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,440 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that 740 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,960 what they have done has been done in the sight of God. 741 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,160 Now, Jesus steps into this role. 742 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,600 He is the suffering servant of Isaiah 55 who was supposed to be Israel. 743 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,200 He is the messianic figure promised in Genesis. 744 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,080 These are all things that Israel is supposed to be. 745 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,080 And so that's why it's really important that we understand Jesus as a Jewish messianic 746 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:47,520 figure, because it's through Jesus that all nations, and that's us, are blessed. 747 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,160 We've been welcomed in because Jesus stepped into what Israel was supposed to do. 748 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,680 And he is like that serpent lifted up high and we look to that cross, but we're not just 749 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:56,680 looking to the cross. 750 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,960 We're looking beyond it to the father who loved and gave. 751 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:01,960 Yeah. 752 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,520 I remember one time I was sitting in a Bible study and someone asked me like, Hey, what 753 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:07,720 is your favorite verse? 754 00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:09,320 I was in like junior high or something. 755 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,000 And I just finished reading John three and a verse that stood out to me was John three 756 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:18,240 19, which is the, which is this is the verdict light has come into the world, but people 757 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:24,720 love darkness instead of light because, because their deeds were evil and everyone's whose 758 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:29,500 deeds were evil hates the light and did not come into light for fear that their deeds 759 00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:30,500 would be exposed. 760 00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:33,840 And the reason, the reason at the time that I was like, man, I really liked this verse 761 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,840 is cause it was Sadie, cause it was saying that like we live in a place where there's 762 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,540 people who are trying to hide, trying to hide who they are and God saying, no, I'm trying 763 00:36:42,540 --> 00:36:43,540 to bring you in. 764 00:36:43,540 --> 00:36:47,200 And so I shared that with the group and the youth pastor at the time was like, do you 765 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,280 mean John three 16? 766 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,680 I was like, no, no, John three 19. 767 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,160 He's like, I think you mean John three 16. 768 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,640 I was like, I'm not going to argue this right now. 769 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,720 I think it's more surprising to me that you didn't argue with it. 770 00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:01,040 I just, I just didn't want to, I was, I was in junior high at the time. 771 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,120 Didn't feel the need. 772 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:09,760 But these, this passage right here is just so, so interesting because what it's not saying 773 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,400 is it's not saying that God condemned you, which is also echoed. 774 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,480 It's also echoed throughout Torah, like there is punishment for sin. 775 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,020 There was punishment for Adam and Eve eating the fruit, right? 776 00:37:21,020 --> 00:37:25,360 Which by the way, I think is figs because they covered themselves in pig leaves afterwards. 777 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,120 That's not theologically sound at all, but that's just my opinion. 778 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,920 Whereas somebody who's like a Hebrew scholar, like, well, actually probably at some point, 779 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,240 but that's just, that's Spencer's little bit there. 780 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:37,160 So they weren't, there was consequences for that, right? 781 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,720 Like God stated the consequences in Genesis one and two where he was like, Hey, if you 782 00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:43,160 eat of this fruit, you will die. 783 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,920 The serpent twisted those words and Adam and Eve ate of the fruit. 784 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,160 Their eyes were opened and they did eventually die. 785 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:52,160 Right? 786 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,880 There were consequences to that. 787 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,040 That wasn't actually God condemning them. 788 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:57,040 Right? 789 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,400 And then here you see Jesus echoing that where it's like, no, the Lord's not actually condemning 790 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:01,400 you. 791 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:02,400 Right. 792 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,640 What the Lord is doing is, but he's not afraid to let you live into your own actions. 793 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,320 God didn't send the snake, but he'll let you get bit if you want to get bit. 794 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,320 Right? 795 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:12,320 Right. 796 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:13,320 Yeah. 797 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,360 Well, dad, let me ask you this. 798 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,080 Were there any times growing up where you're like, Hey, I'm just going to let Spencer do 799 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,920 that and see what happens. 800 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,800 Yeah. 801 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:30,000 The dynamic of people wanting to try their own thing, right? 802 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:36,140 Rather than rely on the wonderful provision and protection and abundance of God. 803 00:38:36,140 --> 00:38:39,960 It was dynamic that we struggle with every day. 804 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:47,640 And I think the posture of literally getting down on your knees and looking up in confession 805 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:56,120 to God to say, if I don't do this today, I can get lost so easily and be right there 806 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:03,240 grumbling and complaining as opposed to thanking you for your salvation, thanking you for your 807 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:10,200 vision and thank you for the abundance that I get to live in today, even when the circumstances 808 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:11,400 are hard. 809 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:12,680 I know I'm not alone. 810 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:13,680 Yeah. 811 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:14,680 So good. 812 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,080 What we've been talking about through the Torah series that, you know, the priesthood, 813 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,080 we're putting God on display. 814 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,960 The law is to put God on display. 815 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,280 Love is to put God on display. 816 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,320 Holiness, being different is to put God on display so that all nations will be blessed. 817 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:30,720 And Jesus invites us. 818 00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:31,820 He doesn't command us. 819 00:39:31,820 --> 00:39:34,200 He invites us to be a part of this. 820 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,960 And then if we're going to be a part of it, then we have a command to love each other 821 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,320 as he's loved us. 822 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:40,320 Yeah. 823 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:41,640 But first is an invitation. 824 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,120 Are you going to be part of this? 825 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,200 Because you always have the right, if you get bitten by a snake, to just sit there and 826 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:47,200 die. 827 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:52,200 It seems like a silly idea, but it is absolutely your right as a person, if you want to get 828 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:53,940 bit by the snake and die. 829 00:39:53,940 --> 00:39:58,680 God didn't send the snakes, but he did provide a way for you to be saved from the snakes. 830 00:39:58,680 --> 00:39:59,680 Yeah. 831 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:06,600 And one of the things I really appreciate about the teaching today and the conversation 832 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:13,480 is just this profound idea that number one, getting out from under God's protection is 833 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,960 not a place any of us should want to be. 834 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:16,960 Correct. 835 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,640 And yet we're so prone to wander there. 836 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:27,880 The second thing that's just huge for me is realizing that even when I do that, that he 837 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:32,360 makes provision and of course that's found through Jesus Christ. 838 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:39,640 And I'm so glad that we don't just stop by looking at the cross because what comes with 839 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:47,320 the resurrection and what comes with the Holy Spirit pouring over our lives is absolutely 840 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,080 life-changing. 841 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,800 And it starts going through the cross, but then it just keeps getting better and better. 842 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,720 And I'm so thankful for what you guys are doing in this conversation. 843 00:40:58,720 --> 00:40:59,720 I appreciate that. 844 00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:01,560 Man, we've liked having you on here. 845 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,280 Hopefully we can cajole you to come back on another episode. 846 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:10,900 So are you up to anything that people should know about anybody in your area that potentially 847 00:41:10,900 --> 00:41:12,840 listeners would be like, oh, that's really cool. 848 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,240 I want to help in that. 849 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:22,080 Well you know, this book series is a devotional series, a well-planted faith in an uprooted 850 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,520 culture. 851 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:29,320 The first three are out, the publication's straight now. 852 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:36,720 And the whole idea there is to let God's word actually inform the kinds of decisions and 853 00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:39,340 choices that we make in our lives. 854 00:41:39,340 --> 00:41:41,820 And that's the whole motivation behind it. 855 00:41:41,820 --> 00:41:45,640 So anybody that wants to get on board with that, you're welcome to. 856 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,800 Everything's available at Amazon, a well-planted faith. 857 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,960 We'll put some links in the show description. 858 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,480 We're going to probably throw up a couple of video recommendations on just some different 859 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,440 books because I read half of one of yours and I forget which one it was, but it was 860 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,440 good. 861 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,320 Usually I read half of it means that I lost the book halfway through. 862 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:08,960 I'm trying to figure out where my son put it. 863 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,680 I have another copy for you. 864 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:11,680 All right. 865 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,320 Well we really enjoyed having you on here. 866 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,440 If you want to reach us, you can email us at loveandcontext.gmail.com. 867 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:25,440 You can also find us on the Facebook, on the YouTube, on the Instagram, on the TikTok. 868 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,040 And oh, we do have our merch store up and we now have that shirt available. 869 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:31,040 The desert is really hot. 870 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,480 And by the way, we gave it to Pastor Nick's wife and she laughed for a long time and then 871 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,360 was like, I'm never going to wear this. 872 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:38,360 Yeah. 873 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,040 We gave it to her on a Sunday and we're like, you have to wear it while you're singing for 874 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:43,440 worship and she was like, no. 875 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:44,440 Yeah. 876 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:45,440 No. 877 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:46,440 We'll probably get Pastor Nick to do it. 878 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:47,440 But yeah. 879 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:48,440 Yeah. 880 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:49,440 All right. 881 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:50,440 Well, thank you so much, Ed. 882 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:51,440 Thanks for being here with us and until next time. 883 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:52,440 Yeah. 884 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:53,440 All right. 885 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:59,480 Thank you guys. 886 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,600 That's a wrap for today's episode. 887 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:06,760 We want to extend a heartfelt thank you for tuning in and spending your valuable time 888 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:07,760 with us. 889 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:13,440 We hope that you found today's conversation insightful and that you take something meaningful 890 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:14,440 from it. 891 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:18,240 If you have questions or comments, we would love to hear from you. 892 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:24,840 Reach out to us at loveandcontext.gmail.com and we will be sure to get back to you. 893 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,760 Remember you can always engage with our content on all your favorite listening platforms, 894 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,520 including Apple, Spotify, Amazon, YouTube and one. 895 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:39,040 Don't forget to follow us on social media at love and context on Instagram and Facebook 896 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,480 for updates. 897 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,640 I read stories by like Harry, not Harriet Tubman. 898 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,240 Sorry, I really do that again. 899 00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:46,240 We're digressing. 900 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:47,240 Yeah. 901 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:48,440 This part of the this part will definitely get cut. 902 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,440 Actually, this will probably end up in the bloopers. 903 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,560 Just so you know, like this, he's getting a peek behind the curtain. 904 00:43:54,560 --> 00:44:14,880 He's like, oh, I can only imagine the stuff has been there.