1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,120 Welcome to the Love and Context podcast, engaging in unscripted conversations with your hosts, 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:07,360 Ben and Spencer. 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,480 Whether you're tuning in from your car, your office, your home, or anywhere in between, 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,200 we are so happy to have you join us today. 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:21,120 Our mission is simple, to explore the Bible through a powerful lens of love. 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:26,260 Together we'll uncover fresh insights and gain deeper understandings of how we can love 7 00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:29,640 God and love the people in our everyday lives. 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,880 So buckle up and join us on this spiritual journey as we discover timeless wisdom that 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,560 is just as relevant today as it was thousands of years ago. 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,560 Without further ado, let's dive right in. 11 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,140 Welcome to the Love and Context podcast with Ben and Spencer. 12 00:00:46,140 --> 00:00:48,400 Today we're going to be in Leviticus. 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:49,400 Again. 14 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:50,400 Again. 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:51,400 More Leviticus. 16 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,560 Yeah, we're going to be talking this one we've titled, The Weird Ones. 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,560 Yeah, so it's really funny because when we started talking about going through Torah, 18 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,080 everybody was asking me, they're like, what are you going to do when you get to Leviticus? 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,000 Are you just going to ignore those ones that everybody has issues with? 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,860 And on a very general level, I'm going to say, yes, we're going to ignore them because 21 00:01:11,860 --> 00:01:15,160 we're not going to get into the nitty gritty, it's like the people always get upset about, 22 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:16,160 right? 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,100 We're more going to talk about broad context, which is basically what we've been doing 24 00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:20,720 for the last 21 weeks. 25 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:21,720 Yeah. 26 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,080 I mean, if you've listened to us at all, you'll realize that this is more of a broad context 27 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:30,920 sweep, not necessarily a deep dive into some of this stuff. 28 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:31,920 Yeah. 29 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,400 We're trying to just really talk about how do we actually live this stuff out as Christians 30 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,000 and what does the old husband have to teach us about following Jesus? 31 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:40,000 Yeah. 32 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,000 Yeah. 33 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,000 Which turns out is a lot. 34 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,000 Oh yeah. 35 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,000 Yeah. 36 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,000 We should caveat. 37 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,000 Okay. 38 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,600 We're going to talk about some of the weird issues, weird laws that come up in Leviticus. 39 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,360 If you're already super unsettled about these laws, what we talk about today is not going 40 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,440 to be helpful for you. 41 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,400 You're going to need to do more of a deep dive for your own. 42 00:01:58,400 --> 00:01:59,800 There's tons of resources. 43 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,760 I think Bible Project has some, but there's also like a ton of scholars and theologians 44 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,480 who have material on this stuff. 45 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:06,480 Yeah. 46 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,920 If you're just curious, like how do I put this in a framework of the Bible? 47 00:02:09,920 --> 00:02:13,280 Today's conversation is going to be really helpful. 48 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,080 And I just want to specify that because we're not here to change your mind today. 49 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:18,960 We're here to add some context. 50 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:24,480 Yeah, so that's just a little precursor to what's going to happen today. 51 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:29,440 To start us off today, if you have not read Leviticus 18, you should go read it. 52 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:30,440 Yeah. 53 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,280 And then you should be like, do I want to continue listening? 54 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:33,640 Do I want to continue listening? 55 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:35,080 That's where we're going to start off today. 56 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:40,040 And we're going to be starting to talk about laws around sexual behavior. 57 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:41,040 Yeah. 58 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,080 Specifically, we're going to do with three separate things. 59 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,000 So we're going to talk about sexual laws. 60 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,600 We're going to talk about laws as they pertain to slavery, and we're going to talk about 61 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:50,960 gender based laws. 62 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:51,960 Yeah. 63 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,120 So how do these laws actually crop up? 64 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,440 We're going to start with the sexual laws. 65 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,880 So jumping over to Leviticus 18, I'm just going to read a little bit of it because I 66 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:04,040 just, I think it's really important to understand the kind of literature we're stepping into. 67 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,760 Yeah, absolutely. 68 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,680 So Leviticus 18.1 says, the Lord said to Moses, speak to the Israelites and say to them, I 69 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,720 am the Lord your God. 70 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,500 You must not do as they do in Egypt where you used to live, and you must not do as they 71 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:18,760 do in the land of Canaan where I am bringing you. 72 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,140 Do not follow their practices. 73 00:03:20,140 --> 00:03:22,800 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. 74 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,120 I am the Lord your God. 75 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:25,120 Okay. 76 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,920 Going down to verse six, we're going to start listing the laws. 77 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:31,280 So no one is to approach a close relative to have sexual relations. 78 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,060 I am the Lord your God. 79 00:03:33,060 --> 00:03:36,080 Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. 80 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,080 She is your mother. 81 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:38,740 Do not have sexual relations with her. 82 00:03:38,740 --> 00:03:40,720 Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife. 83 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,160 That would dishonor your father. 84 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,440 Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's 85 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,320 daughter where she was born in the same home or elsewhere. 86 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,440 Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter. 87 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:52,520 That would dishonor you. 88 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,720 Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife. 89 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:55,720 I'm born to your father. 90 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,040 She is your sister and so on. 91 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,040 This is a lot of Leviticus 18. 92 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,600 We're not going to read the whole chapter. 93 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,560 And so I think when you read something like this, especially when you've read Genesis 94 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,560 and Exodus and even the beginning of Leviticus, they're talking about like rules and rituals 95 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:10,560 and all these things. 96 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,000 You read the chapter and you're like, what just happened? 97 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,000 Yeah. 98 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,280 And you need to understand the sexual practices that happened in Egypt and in Canaan. 99 00:04:18,280 --> 00:04:19,280 Right. 100 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:26,080 So if you like broad strokes overview on this for you, incest was a common state in Egypt. 101 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,320 So it was actually more common for you to have sexual relations with your sister to 102 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:35,320 keep the quote unquote pure bloodline going, especially if you're in royalty. 103 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,840 It was more common to see things like that happen than it was not. 104 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:43,840 If you read this from a Westernized standpoint, like from culture that we live in America, 105 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:46,600 we'd be like, yeah, no duh. 106 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:47,840 We shouldn't do those things. 107 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:48,840 Right. 108 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:52,000 But you have to understand that these are actually pretty common practices from the 109 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,840 land that they were coming from. 110 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:57,020 And so for the Lord to say, hey, do not live as they lived. 111 00:04:57,020 --> 00:05:00,560 This is how you're supposed to live when it comes to sexual relations. 112 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,940 And right at the top of that chapter, God specifically says, I don't want you to behave 113 00:05:03,940 --> 00:05:04,940 like everyone else. 114 00:05:04,940 --> 00:05:05,940 Yeah. 115 00:05:05,940 --> 00:05:06,940 Like everybody else that you're going to be around. 116 00:05:06,940 --> 00:05:08,720 I don't want you to look like that. 117 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,320 Let's just try to contextualize us. 118 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:15,360 So when we interpret Leviticus, and we've talked about this throughout this book, stop 119 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,340 interpreting it like God is mad with you. 120 00:05:17,340 --> 00:05:20,480 He's not giving you a list of if you do this, I'm going to break you. 121 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:25,080 He's giving these laws as a wedding gift to his people to teach them how to be a kingdom 122 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:29,360 of priests, to put his kingdom on display and reach the entire world, to be a blessing 123 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:30,760 so that all people are blessed. 124 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:31,760 Yeah. 125 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,040 So that the entire kingdom actually puts the kingdom of God on display and they are made 126 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,200 into a healthier, more ethical society. 127 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:38,200 Yeah. 128 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:44,280 So if we assume that these laws are actually for our good and not just to mess with us, 129 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:46,040 then we're going to have to place these in a different context. 130 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,040 So first thing you were talking about, Spencer, is health. 131 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,280 Right? 132 00:05:50,280 --> 00:05:55,480 Now we know from modern science that if you intermingle close bloodlines, you end up with 133 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:56,800 a ton of deformities. 134 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:57,800 Right? 135 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,200 There's a lot of physical things that show up. 136 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,880 There's a lot of mental things that show up. 137 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,280 And you can also get to the point where your lines are so muddled that you can no longer 138 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:08,840 conceive and keep going. 139 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:11,040 Like your generation's just stopped. 140 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:12,520 So we know that. 141 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,960 We are not medical professionals, so we're not going to claim a bunch of details on that, 142 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:17,960 but go do some research. 143 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,460 It takes a junior high level research via Google to make that happen. 144 00:06:22,460 --> 00:06:25,240 There's a lot of biology textbooks that'll explain a lot of those things. 145 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,400 So go do some research on that if you don't know what we're talking about. 146 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:33,760 Just by abstaining from what is listed here, you're going to live a healthier life. 147 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:39,480 One of the things we see right away is that God is bringing this law to bring life to 148 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:40,480 the Israelites. 149 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:41,480 It is not a punishment. 150 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,400 It is not, hey, you can't be like everybody else because I'm going to punish you. 151 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,160 No, this is actually, this is good for you. 152 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,160 Yeah. 153 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,840 You come into these laws, you say, why would God even mention this? 154 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:57,000 We talked about like pork and seafood and hygiene and all these different things that 155 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,640 are going on in Leviticus. 156 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,720 This is God doing something for the Israelites that is going to completely change them among 157 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:04,920 all the nations. 158 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,240 They're going to go from being like the weakest of nations to the strongest of nations because 159 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:10,720 they're not getting sick and dying. 160 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,320 Their bloodlines aren't polluted. 161 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,960 They're able to actually grow into a strong, healthy, functioning, ethically moving nation. 162 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,320 Like this is the goal. 163 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,760 One of the things that keeps coming to mind when we talk about this type of stuff, I remember 164 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:28,120 when I was a kid and my parents were like, you have to eat your vegetables. 165 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,360 Right? 166 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,280 I did not want to eat my vegetables. 167 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,920 It was a change from eating junk food, which I liked. 168 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,240 My favorite dish growing up was mac and cheese. 169 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:38,240 Oh yeah. 170 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,320 Especially like the pre-made boxed garbage. 171 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:41,320 Yeah. 172 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,360 By the way, I got to just side note in here. 173 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,640 I just had some mac and cheese recently where we put spicy chorizo in it. 174 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:48,640 Oh. 175 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:49,640 Yeah, it was really good. 176 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:50,640 Oh yeah. 177 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,240 So little me would not have loved it because it would have been weird to put that in, but 178 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,240 older me is like, yes. 179 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:56,240 Yes. 180 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:57,240 Yes. 181 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,040 And then whenever we'd have a meal, my parents are like, hey, here's a salad. 182 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:02,040 Here's some carrots. 183 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:07,080 My mom actually really liked kale growing up, which I still don't like kale, but it was 184 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,280 always on my plate and I always had to eat it. 185 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:10,440 Man, kale. 186 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,720 But I can tell you is that my parents weren't doing that because they hated me. 187 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,480 They're doing that because they're looking out for me. 188 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,720 So that's a weird analogy to use here, but God's doing the same thing here with the sexual 189 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:21,720 practices. 190 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:27,240 He's saying, hey, don't live how you have known to live the past 400 years in slavery. 191 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:28,240 Yeah. 192 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:29,240 And in a different way. 193 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:30,240 Exactly. 194 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,640 And it comes back to like the nature of sin itself. 195 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:33,800 We think God's holding out on us. 196 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:35,560 We're like, God, I know there's bacon cheeseburgers. 197 00:08:35,560 --> 00:08:36,560 Why can't I have bacon cheeseburgers? 198 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:40,740 Bacon cheeseburgers are fine, but if you only bacon cheeseburgers, you're going to get clogged 199 00:08:40,740 --> 00:08:41,740 arteries and die. 200 00:08:41,740 --> 00:08:43,760 You're going to get heart disease and die. 201 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,280 You can look at the numbers in America. 202 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:46,760 We have heart disease on the rise. 203 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:47,760 Why? 204 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:48,760 Take a look at our fast food. 205 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,600 That's not to say you can't eat fast food, but if you consist on a diet of fast food, 206 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,680 it's going to cause problems. 207 00:08:54,680 --> 00:08:57,320 And so all the way back in Genesis, we talked about this. 208 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,160 Eve looks at the tree and she says, it's desirable for gaining something that I feel like God's 209 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,720 holding out on me. 210 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:08,200 And once again, God is giving them an ability to say, hey, these are things that bring life. 211 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:13,720 It's almost like when Paul says that the law was meant to bring life, but it only brought 212 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,520 death. 213 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,320 He knew what he was talking about. 214 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,440 Yeah, absolutely. 215 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,960 So there's two things that were going on with sexual practices and there are various laws 216 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:24,960 that are addressed here. 217 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,440 So just understand I'm painting with a very broad brush. 218 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,240 Some of the sexual practices were based around accumulating power. 219 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,580 So if you're a son and you sleep with your father's wife, even if it's not your mother, 220 00:09:36,580 --> 00:09:40,280 you're actually asserting your authority over your father. 221 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,320 These are things about accumulating power. 222 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:48,800 And not only this, a lot of the sexual practices are also tied to deity worship, which is why 223 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,120 you see in chapter 19 when it's talking about how we're going to treat each other because 224 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,480 we're going to actually talk in a couple of weeks about love one another. 225 00:09:55,480 --> 00:10:01,160 He actually deals with the worship of malec around all these sexual ideas. 226 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:07,800 Why you have a lot of sexual practice that is put into worship, which is a lot of also 227 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,560 what's going on in the Corinthian Church in the New Testament and what Paul is dealing 228 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:16,120 with in Ephesus, Corinth and a few other places. 229 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,120 Yeah. 230 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:18,120 Yeah. 231 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,720 We wanted to provide some contextual commentary for you. 232 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:22,720 Yeah. 233 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:23,880 So just had, that's all we were doing on that. 234 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,040 Whereas not deep dive. 235 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,640 If you want to research that more, go read Leviticus 18, go find some more things to 236 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,200 read on that and you'll be surprised. 237 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,720 A lot of times when you're in reading these laws, stop reading them as what are they actually 238 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,160 telling them me to do as opposed to what are they trying to actually bring out of me? 239 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,800 I think about when Jesus in the New Testament says, you have heard it said, but I say unto 240 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,020 you and he's saying, this was always supposed to produce this. 241 00:10:49,020 --> 00:10:54,000 What is the reality of like restricting your sexual behavior to a certain format? 242 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,840 What does that actually produce in you? 243 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,760 Produces loyalty, produces failty. 244 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,520 It produces a partnership with your spouse, like all these different things. 245 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,400 Like start to think about those types of things when you're interpreting Leviticus. 246 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,240 I think that's the place where a lot of times we get ourselves in trouble. 247 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:10,240 Yeah. 248 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:11,240 When we're reading the Old Testament. 249 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,240 Yeah. 250 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,160 You know, where a lot of people struggle. 251 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:15,160 Yeah. 252 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:16,160 Yeah. 253 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,280 So we're jumping onto slavery, just jumping onto slavery. 254 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:20,280 Yeah. 255 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,000 We're going to talk about slavery for a bit. 256 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,720 First thing we want to know on slavery at this point, we're going to be referencing 257 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,480 some stuff in Leviticus 19, some stuff in Leviticus 25. 258 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,320 So you turn over to those chapters if you need to. 259 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,960 We are not talking slavery as in the context that we know it in the US. 260 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:37,960 Correct. 261 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,880 Or even like the transatlantic slave transatlantic. 262 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:40,880 Yeah, we're not. 263 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,720 We are not talking slavery in that context. 264 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:44,720 Yeah. 265 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,620 We are not the biblical context of slavery and we need to understand that. 266 00:11:48,620 --> 00:11:51,760 So Ben, do you want to talk more on the context of slavery? 267 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:52,760 Yeah. 268 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,240 And that's not to be like, I want to be really fair to people who actually take the biblical 269 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,000 context and then carry it forward to talk about transatlantic slavery. 270 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,240 I think that's completely appropriate. 271 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:01,240 Yeah. 272 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,360 But you need to start in the right place. 273 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:03,360 Yeah. 274 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:04,360 In biblical times. 275 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,260 So we're just going to go with the time of Egypt, Canaan, all those areas. 276 00:12:08,260 --> 00:12:12,420 Slavery would either happen because a nation was conquered and their people were placed 277 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:16,100 in segregation underneath their rulers. 278 00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:19,560 And in the case of in Egypt, they just placed them into slavery and then forced them to 279 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:20,600 actually build them. 280 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,320 But they still had like houses and jobs and all these things, but they weren't just free 281 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:25,920 to go and do whatever they wanted. 282 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,400 So that's slavery more like what we would understand it being conquest and that you 283 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,800 are actually ruled over by an authority. 284 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:38,200 But a much more common form of slavery in that time is if you don't own land or you 285 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,560 owe massive debts that you cannot pay, you would take yourself and place yourself into 286 00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:47,200 slavery underneath somebody who would cover your debt. 287 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,400 And then you would work for them for a certain amount of time, usually you and your family 288 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:51,400 for a certain amount of time. 289 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,700 And then when that debt is repaid, you would be set free. 290 00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:59,800 And it's because you don't have the money, the resources, whatever it is to actually 291 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:00,800 pay off this debt. 292 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,760 And so this is a very common thing that ends up coming up through here. 293 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,600 Stepping into that context, we want to be really sensitive like as we're talking about 294 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:09,600 this. 295 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,320 One of the pieces I want to pull is from Leviticus 19, 33 to 34. 296 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:18,540 And it specifically is how Israel is supposed to treat people who don't belong to them. 297 00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:22,560 So this would include people that place themselves into slavery or people that they take captive 298 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,400 in the conquest. 299 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,960 It says in Leviticus 19, 33, when an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not 300 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:30,320 oppress the alien. 301 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,680 The alien who resides with you shall be to you as a citizen among you. 302 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:38,480 You shall love the alien as yourself for you were aliens in the land of Egypt. 303 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,160 I am the Lord your God. 304 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,320 So extraterrestrials are in the Bible. 305 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:43,320 Yes, exactly. 306 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:44,320 And that's true. 307 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,320 Yeah. 308 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,040 Honestly, with the recent stuff in the news, like that's no, the alien being people that 309 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,120 aren't from your actual tribe. 310 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:57,200 And so the whole preface in treating anybody who's outside of your tribe, God says you 311 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,760 got to love them like they're part of your tribe. 312 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,220 And this is so countercultural. 313 00:14:02,220 --> 00:14:05,840 This is not what Egypt did to the Israelites. 314 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,440 This is not what other nations did to people that were outsiders. 315 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:10,440 Yeah. 316 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,560 When we looked at the Pharaoh that rises up, right? 317 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:15,280 He says he places this us and them. 318 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,720 What if they do this and what if they do that? 319 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,800 And he didn't recognize them as actually members of their society. 320 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:22,800 Yeah. 321 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:23,800 Yeah. 322 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:24,800 It's really important. 323 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,120 We understand that everything that comes after this is with this in mind. 324 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,120 Right? 325 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:35,920 So specifically, let's take a look in Leviticus where it talks about slavery of fellow Israelites. 326 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,280 Take a look at 25 verse 39. 327 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,840 If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them 328 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:42,840 work as slaves. 329 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,200 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you. 330 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,640 They are to work for you until the year of Jubilee. 331 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,840 Then they and their children are to be released and they will go back to their own clans and 332 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,360 the property of their ancestors. 333 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,160 Because the Israelites are my servants whom I brought out of Egypt. 334 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:57,800 They must not be sold as slaves. 335 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,920 Do not rule over them ruthlessly, but fear your God. 336 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,560 Now what I've heard a lot of people take from this is they say, okay, we can't do that to 337 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,560 Israelites so you can do it to other people. 338 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:07,560 No. 339 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:08,560 Leviticus 19 is still there. 340 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:09,760 Right? 341 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,800 And so it's predicated on this fact that you're supposed to love the alien as yourself. 342 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,960 The person who's on the outside you're supposed to love as yourself. 343 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,440 And so what we actually end up seeing in a lot of these spots in Leviticus 25, God's 344 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,800 saying Israelites don't enslave one another and Israelites don't oppress one another. 345 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,320 And he says it again in a couple of verses later, Israelites, you may have, you might 346 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,600 have foreign slaves, but don't oppress one another. 347 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,960 Then he says later in later in that same chapter, impoverished Israelites may sell themselves 348 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:43,320 to foreigners, but they must be redeemed at least be released in the Jubilee year. 349 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:44,960 But Israelites don't oppress one another. 350 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,360 Now what's the overriding thing that happens over and over this chapter? 351 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:49,360 Don't oppress one another. 352 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:50,360 Don't oppress one another. 353 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,360 By the way, Jesus says a new command I give to you, love one another as I have loved you. 354 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,400 It's a new interpretation on an old command. 355 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,360 Don't oppress each other, but love each other. 356 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:05,200 And so we're talking about a society where slavery is normal in a different context, 357 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,200 not in the context of I am going to rip you out of your home, your world and bring you 358 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,280 to another place and force you to work. 359 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,520 That's not the context we're talking about. 360 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,440 We're talking about people who are saying, Hey, I'm indebted to you here. 361 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,760 Let me work for you for X amount of time to pay off my debt. 362 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,880 Let me and my family work for you so our debt can be paid. 363 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:32,120 So we got to understand that in this context and the word that they use to describe this 364 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,480 type of lifestyle was slavery. 365 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,800 The verse that comes up that people have quoted to me the most, actually it's not in Leviticus, 366 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:39,800 believe it or not. 367 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:40,800 They always say it's from Leviticus. 368 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:41,800 It was actually from Exodus. 369 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,700 So see if you're familiar with this one. 370 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:47,320 Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies 371 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,560 as a direct result. 372 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,040 And then there's the stipulation that if he doesn't die, then their own recompense and 373 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,400 like all these different things, right? 374 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,020 Now you can be uncomfortable with that statement. 375 00:16:58,020 --> 00:17:00,520 And I think that's completely appropriate. 376 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:07,340 Once again, context, because in that culture, if you are the master and you beat the slave 377 00:17:07,340 --> 00:17:15,560 and they die and you're the conquesting nation, do you have any responsibility? 378 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,840 No, you don't. 379 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,680 When God says, no, that's going to change, you're actually going to place value. 380 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,520 You're going to place dignity. 381 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,800 You're going to place equity on these. 382 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:33,680 Now you don't hear that in probably 2023 as revolutionary, but God is laying down some, 383 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,800 to quote the colloquialism of modern day, he's spitting bars, right? 384 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,020 Like he is like dropping fire left and right for them. 385 00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:42,600 And they're like, really? 386 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,160 This is what we have to do? 387 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,680 Like we have to behave this way. 388 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,720 We behave this way, God. 389 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,120 You want us to be this way. 390 00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:56,680 It's almost like God saying, we're going to set you apart for greater work. 391 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:57,680 Yeah. 392 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,680 That doesn't ring a bell at all, does it? 393 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:00,680 No, not at all. 394 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,880 That doesn't sound, God never says, Hey, be different, just like I'm different. 395 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,260 I'll be holy like I'm holy. 396 00:18:05,260 --> 00:18:06,800 Be therefore perfect as I am perfect. 397 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,720 He never says anything like that in the Bible ever. 398 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:10,720 Yeah. 399 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,440 And then the whole thing here is that in a land where slavery is the norm. 400 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:21,400 Yeah, God tells them to be abnormal because it's not just that we've talked about Sabbath. 401 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,400 So once a week they recognize that their worth comes not from what they can produce, but 402 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,040 from whose identity they're made in. 403 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:28,040 Right? 404 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,040 Yeah. 405 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:34,040 And every seven years it's at Rinden Leviticus in same area, by the way, then the second half 406 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,800 Leviticus, every seven years, they're actually called not only to place their faith like 407 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,280 they do every, every week where they one day a week don't work, but they're actually asked 408 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,720 to not work the land for an entire year, place their faith that God will provide. 409 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:48,720 Yeah. 410 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:49,720 Allow the land to rejuvenate. 411 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:50,720 Yeah. 412 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:56,200 Now I know there's a ton of environmental people who recognize the value in land not 413 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,960 being worked one out of every seven years, right? 414 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,440 It actually replenishes and you actually have to carry on nutrients and all these different 415 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:03,440 things. 416 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,680 You don't overtax the land. 417 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:11,200 But the crazy thing is every seven of seven years, so the 50th year, you're supposed to 418 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,560 celebrate this thing called Jubilee where everybody who, if they own debt, they're in 419 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:22,680 slavery, they're completely covered, they've sold their ancestral land, whatever it is, 420 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:28,480 God says, you got to set them free and you got to give them their land back. 421 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,760 Accumulate all you want in those 50 years, but at 50 years, you got to make sure that 422 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:40,280 people aren't going into generational slavery, generational debt. 423 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:46,240 How crazy would it be if we as Christians lived with this mentality that we did not 424 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,560 let people live in generational chaos? 425 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,840 I was just thinking of that rule, the return things to its owners essentially after every 426 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:55,840 50 years. 427 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,680 I'm like, my house is 41 years old. 428 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,120 And I was like, as you're saying that, I'm like, I got nine years. 429 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:02,120 Yeah. 430 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:04,760 And I was like, okay, wait, that's not how that works anymore. 431 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,520 But that's the mindset that was going on. 432 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:07,520 Yeah. 433 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,400 And then there's kind of things like if you were a member of Israel, you would actually 434 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,880 have land that's yours no matter what. 435 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,120 The person could then can sell their land again, but then you're dealing with the next 436 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:17,120 generation. 437 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:21,600 So what God is doing is he's setting up an economy where you can grow and you can be 438 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,520 creative, you can work in business. 439 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,760 But at the same time, if you're going to be faithful to Yahweh, then you also have to 440 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:34,680 care about people and their future, which is a very profound lesson. 441 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:35,680 Yeah. 442 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:36,680 Yeah. 443 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:42,680 So God says where slavery might be the norm, I'm going to speak something into this and 444 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,200 actually change the course of what this is going to look like in the future. 445 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,200 Yeah. 446 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,040 This is a lot of what God does throughout the Word of God. 447 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:57,320 He is speaking into our life and the ramifications and what it does long term is massive. 448 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:58,320 Huge. 449 00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:59,320 Massive. 450 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:00,320 Huge. 451 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,000 So last one. 452 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,160 And this is one that goes all throughout the Bible and there is probably even listeners 453 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,600 who disagree with us on some of our perspectives on men and women in the church. 454 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:12,600 Yeah. 455 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:17,460 Now, just a reminder for speaking into context about the gender-based laws that are going 456 00:21:17,460 --> 00:21:18,800 on in Leviticus. 457 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:25,780 Genesis 1, God says we're going to make mankind in our image, male and female, He created 458 00:21:25,780 --> 00:21:27,160 them. 459 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,480 Man and woman together are the image of God. 460 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,000 We represent God together. 461 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,440 And so that is the basis by which we start interpreting everything going forward. 462 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,520 It's also the reason Paul describes marriage as an example of the relationship we have 463 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,940 as a church with Christ because marriage is supposed to signify the completeness of our 464 00:21:46,940 --> 00:21:49,320 relationship being restored to Christ. 465 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,320 Yeah. 466 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:51,640 That's so good. 467 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,000 I like, you shot my brain off like 15 different ways. 468 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,120 So I'm just like, oh, I love that. 469 00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:01,440 There are a couple of gender-based laws in the Book of Leviticus that I want to address 470 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,400 that I think are, that are problematic for people when they interpret them. 471 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,440 So the first one is this idea of the redemption price being different for males and females. 472 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,480 This is in, this is later in Leviticus. 473 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,680 And basically the firstborn is supposed to belong to God. 474 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,260 And if the firstborn is not given to God, now, once again, this is not human sacrifice 475 00:22:20,260 --> 00:22:22,240 because God says you can't do that. 476 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,560 And I specify that because sometimes people, when they say give to God, they're like, oh, 477 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:27,560 so God's promoting sacrifice. 478 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,000 No, He's already made it very clear. 479 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,620 Melek, not happening. 480 00:22:30,620 --> 00:22:34,440 He made it clear with Abraham and Isaac that this is not what He ever requires. 481 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,440 Right? 482 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,040 In fact, if it's ever going to happen where a somebody is going to have to lay their life 483 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,400 on behalf of somebody else, He's going to do it Himself. 484 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:42,400 Yeah. 485 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:43,400 Which He proved. 486 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,400 Yeah, exactly. 487 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:50,500 There's this section where it talks about the children and the redemption price of different 488 00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:53,720 children when you bring them in at different ages and adults. 489 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,520 And so if they come in, they're part of your culture, they become part of your family, 490 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,160 part of your tribe, all those different things. 491 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:00,880 There's these different redemption rates. 492 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,480 And so I'm going to go through them really quick because it's super boring, but also 493 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:04,640 just good for us to know. 494 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,560 So if you have a child age 0 to 4, the male is five shekels, the female is three shekels 495 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:10,560 to redeem. 496 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,840 If it's 5 to 19, it's 20 shekels for the male, 10 shekels for the female. 497 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,480 20 to 59, there's 50 versus 30. 498 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,920 60 and over, it's 15 versus 10. 499 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,160 Okay? 500 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:28,400 Now you look at that and on a very broad level, you would say, oh, men are worth more than 501 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,360 women. 502 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:39,600 The problem is what this is specifically addressing is ability to work in a agricultural wandering 503 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,200 society, hunter gathering, right? 504 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,200 Farming, right? 505 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,960 A lot of physical labor. 506 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:52,960 Now on a general level, very general level, men are going to be more productive in those 507 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,840 fields than women physically. 508 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,500 Men are just built different. 509 00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:59,640 Now that is the rule, not the exception. 510 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,600 There's tons of women who would work circles around me, especially after I hurt my back. 511 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,140 And so I'm not discounting somebody's ability to do things, but these are actually based 512 00:24:08,140 --> 00:24:11,980 on the type of work, not the value of the person. 513 00:24:11,980 --> 00:24:14,400 What is the actual return on ability? 514 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:15,400 Yeah. 515 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:16,400 Right? 516 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,720 When the redemption cycle is going through, that's what's actually coming into place. 517 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:26,360 A boy, specifically a male between 20 and 59 is worth 50 shekels, right? 518 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:29,200 Because that's the prime of their working ability. 519 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,320 But after 59, it decreases significantly. 520 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,320 Why? 521 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,760 Because they physically can't work as well. 522 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:34,760 Right? 523 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:35,760 Makes sense. 524 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:36,760 Yeah. 525 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:37,760 Okay. 526 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:44,600 So when you understand that this is not a qualitative assessment, it is a quantitative 527 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,640 assessment, it helps you put this law into context. 528 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:54,180 On the broader context, outside cultures outside of the Israelites did not have a redemption 529 00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:55,180 price for women. 530 00:24:55,180 --> 00:24:56,180 Correct. 531 00:24:56,180 --> 00:25:00,440 So if you're talking, if you're looking at this from a contextual standpoint, and the 532 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,160 culture of which the Israelites were placed at the time, this puts tremendous value on 533 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,160 women. 534 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,160 Correct. 535 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,640 Because it's saying, hey, we are worth more than the garbage that we are treated like 536 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,220 via other cultures. 537 00:25:12,220 --> 00:25:18,160 Because very frequently in the culture surrounding in Mesopotamia, that area, women are going 538 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,600 to be valued for the children they can produce, and specifically the boys they can produce 539 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,640 or the girls that they can marry off. 540 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:25,640 Yeah. 541 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:26,640 They're going to be their value. 542 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:33,320 And yet God says here, no, there is an intrinsic labor-based value for women, and there's also 543 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,520 a value of dignity and equity. 544 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:37,520 Yeah. 545 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:38,520 Yeah. 546 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,640 Now, I understand when you read that, if you are like, they should be equal, all those different 547 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,220 things, I completely hear you. 548 00:25:44,220 --> 00:25:46,480 And I don't even disagree with you. 549 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,080 But I'm trying to help you add some context. 550 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,400 So once again, I said, if you're not comfortable or you're upset about these things in general, 551 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,640 our conversation may or may not be helpful. 552 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,600 And I would say, don't get hung up on the price point. 553 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:58,600 Correct. 554 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,240 That's not necessarily what is the focus should be here. 555 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,000 The focus should be that there's being value placed on women where there was not in the 556 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,720 known world at the time. 557 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:09,720 Correct. 558 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,960 And so what will that actually produce in the nation? 559 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,880 What will that actually cause them to do or become? 560 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:17,880 Right? 561 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:18,880 Yeah. 562 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:24,400 So the other gender-based law is there's instructions we talked a couple of weeks ago about hygiene 563 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,400 law. 564 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,480 And I explained how being unclean doesn't mean sinful. 565 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:29,640 It means that you're unclean. 566 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:30,640 Yeah. 567 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,200 So it might be based on hygiene. 568 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,520 It might be based on ritual purification, all those different things. 569 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,880 It's not actually based on sin because a woman is not sinning once a month when she has her 570 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:40,880 period. 571 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:41,880 So it's in Leviticus 12. 572 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,480 It says, if she gives birth to a daughter for two weeks, the woman will be unclean as 573 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:47,960 during her period. 574 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,200 Then she must wait 66 days to be purified from her bleeding. 575 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,000 Now, if you're reading the text, which a lot of people get bogged down in and they read 576 00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:00,400 past, you'll actually notice that for a woman who has a daughter, the period of cleansing 577 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,680 and the period of waiting is actually twice as long. 578 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,480 Now there are a couple of interesting things about that. 579 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,400 And in fact, I actually wrote a couple of blogs that I'm going to link in our podcast 580 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,720 episode where I dive a little bit deeper into these concepts. 581 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,920 And you guys can take a look at that. 582 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,000 When people have interpreted this in the past, there's been a couple of different reactions. 583 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,520 The first is that, hey, this is just misogyny, that it's a girl instead of a boy. 584 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,160 So it's double the time. 585 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,920 And there's actually been biblical commentary where people have made statements like that 586 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,200 the woman sinned first, so she carries a double burden. 587 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,400 That is really bad theology. 588 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,080 It doesn't say that and it doesn't even imply that in the text. 589 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,160 So if somebody's told you that at some point, I'm sorry. 590 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,580 That is not what the Bible is saying. 591 00:27:43,580 --> 00:27:47,080 Another perspective is that the mother is serving purification for what the daughter 592 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,640 might eventually do, which is have a baby. 593 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,720 But because a daughter can produce a baby, she has double purification because she's 594 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,320 serving it for her daughter too. 595 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,940 That one doesn't really hold weight either, but it's rabbinic commentary. 596 00:27:58,940 --> 00:28:03,980 And then there's another commentary piece that people run with and they say that women 597 00:28:03,980 --> 00:28:05,220 are weaker than men. 598 00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:09,000 I've been married for 13 years and I know that is not the case. 599 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,600 My wife showed up to our house the other day. 600 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,160 It was a 200 pound massage chair in the back of our truck. 601 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:15,440 And I asked her, I was like, how'd you get it up there? 602 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:16,440 She's like, I just picked it up. 603 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,800 I was like, did you have someone to help you? 604 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:25,320 And if you see my truck, like it's a lifted Chevy 2500 with a toolbox bed, the bed's four 605 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:26,320 feet off the ground. 606 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,520 And I'm like, and you just picked up a 200 pound massage chair and threw it in the back 607 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:30,520 of the truck? 608 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:31,520 Yep. 609 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:32,520 Yeah. 610 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:33,520 Women are not weaker than men. 611 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,520 We're built differently. 612 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,520 We're built differently for different specialties. 613 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,800 And it's really important to know that I was there when both of my kids were born. 614 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,600 I promise you, I am not tougher than my wife. 615 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,160 That did not look pleasant. 616 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,240 I like the end result. 617 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,560 I love my boys, but that did not look pleasant, right? 618 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,480 A lot of these interpretations though, once again, we've said this a bunch of times, if 619 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:57,000 you interpret the Bible as God is mad at you, if you're saying all of the Torah and Old 620 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,160 Testament until the time that Jesus comes and then suddenly God loves you, is that God 621 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,360 is mad at you, you're going to interpret these the wrong way. 622 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,960 You're going to automatically look at these as punishments. 623 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:11,000 So if it's not a punishment though, why might God be doing this? 624 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,680 And the God being mad at you, there are two big issues. 625 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,120 I don't know if we've directly said out loud, but I'm just going to say them, is one, if 626 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,360 you're saying God was mad also the Old Testament and all of a sudden he loves you, you're saying 627 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:23,920 God changed his nature. 628 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:24,920 Correct. 629 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,600 Which scripture actually tells us that he's the same yesterday, today and forever. 630 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,120 So his nature has not changed. 631 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,680 So if his nature in the New Testament is love, his nature in the Old Testament has to be 632 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:34,680 love. 633 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:35,680 Yeah. 634 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:42,480 And then with that, if Jesus is the perfect representation of the father on earth, then 635 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,880 Jesus should look like an angry old man. 636 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,120 And yet he doesn't. 637 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:48,160 Right? 638 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,200 We say that Jesus is love, like he actually embodies the idea of love. 639 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,080 So if it's not a punishment though, why might God be doing this? 640 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,760 I did actually do some research and some reading and there are actually some interesting scientific 641 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:07,100 studies on the way that the body works and why God might have actually instituted double 642 00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:09,160 the time for women as opposed to men. 643 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:15,800 And apparently there is some sort of toxin only present when girls are born that is present 644 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,360 for a certain amount of time. 645 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,200 And it can actually be better for them if they're actually kept away from people for 646 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,400 a longer period of time. 647 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:32,000 Now I don't understand why biologically that would be the case, but God did create humanity. 648 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,960 So it stands to reason that he would know that. 649 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,240 But I want to ask you, okay, so we've talked about how women are valued in Mesopotamian 650 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,640 culture. 651 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:49,280 What's going to happen family after family, generation after generation, tribe after tribe, 652 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:55,760 like birth after birth, if the mother who only believes that boys are valuable, women 653 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,920 are not, and the family who believes boys are valuable and women are not, if they're 654 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:06,480 spending twice the amount of time connected to their child before they rejoin society, 655 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:12,800 time after time after time, like what's going to start happening? 656 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,280 It's going to change society. 657 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:15,280 Right. 658 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:20,000 You're going to have mothers who have a stronger bond with their daughters than you've ever 659 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,480 seen before. 660 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,680 Side note, like first couple months that a kid's alive, like the parent that they're 661 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,000 spending the most time with, there's actually been a few studies that indicate that's probably 662 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,080 going to be the parent that they're most connected with. 663 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,080 Right. 664 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,080 And they indicate that and not necessarily prove that it's an indication. 665 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,160 So you're going to have a society change because one, you have a value shifting. 666 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:45,080 Whether the boys, here's half the time, then let's start mixing other people into the mix. 667 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,600 But the girls, it's no, I need more time because the reality, let's just take this a couple 668 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,760 different ways. 669 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,920 So if you are in the camp where you are like, okay, women should stay at home, be moms, 670 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:55,920 stuff like that. 671 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,760 First off, being a mom is a horribly difficult job. 672 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,320 It's very rewarding, but horribly difficult job. 673 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,360 I frequently say that my wife's job is way harder than mine. 674 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:05,360 Oh yeah. 675 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:06,360 Yeah. 676 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,360 Because it's true. 677 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:08,360 Oh yeah. 678 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,960 And so then you have somebody who, if you're in that camp, you have somebody who's okay, 679 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:16,760 if their focus is creating a home and a place where your hospitality can happen, that's 680 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,040 huge. 681 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,080 Now if you're in the camp where you're like, women should be allowed to work, absolutely. 682 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:22,080 100%. 683 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,080 I'm there. 684 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,080 I'm there with you too. 685 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,760 There's biblical basis for that. 686 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,880 You have a value system placed on women. 687 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,240 You actually fast forward that value system over into Acts. 688 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,640 And then you have people like Lydia of the purple cloth and other people in Mesopotamian 689 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,320 culture who actually have jobs. 690 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:38,320 Correct. 691 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:39,320 And they're the wealthy people. 692 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,320 And they're the wealthy people. 693 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:41,320 Yeah. 694 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,380 And even they come back in the Old Testament, there's Ruth working the fields. 695 00:32:43,380 --> 00:32:46,140 There is Deborah serving as a judge. 696 00:32:46,140 --> 00:32:49,160 There are examples all throughout the Old Testament of this happening too. 697 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:50,160 Absolutely. 698 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,160 Yeah. 699 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,000 So I think there's a lot of camps where you're going to go all these different places. 700 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,520 When we interpret the Bible, when we're reading the Bible, right? 701 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,560 We want to try to place it in its context and ask, what is the, who is the audience 702 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,640 that it's directed at? 703 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:09,400 Now if God is directing this at a culture who has now devalued women, they're only useful 704 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,280 for what they can produce. 705 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,800 And God is changing their mind to tell them they're not useful for what they can produce, 706 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,880 but because of who they are. 707 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,200 And birth after birth, every time a woman is born, you have twice the amount of time 708 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,480 that the family is spending with that kid. 709 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,280 This is going to start to shift or change you generation to generation to the point 710 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,840 where you start to realize the value of women. 711 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:31,840 Yeah. 712 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,640 It's almost like God plays the long game. 713 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:34,640 Yeah. 714 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:35,640 Yeah. 715 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,360 So going back to those camps, like whatever camp you're in, as far as what women should 716 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:44,440 be allowed and allowed not to do, either camp, there's tremendous value on women. 717 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,440 Correct. 718 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:46,440 Yeah. 719 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,280 And there is, we try really hard not to take an aggressive stance one way or the other. 720 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:56,160 There is one aggressive stance that I'm going to take here and it's that women are incredibly 721 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,440 valuable to the kingdom of God. 722 00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:59,880 Stop selling them short. 723 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:00,880 Yes. 724 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,840 We need to seek God together and allow God to direct what we do and don't do. 725 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,000 A resource for you if you want a great resource on this. 726 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,440 It's written in a little bit of old English, so it's a little tougher read sometimes, but 727 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:15,440 B.T. 728 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,640 Robert's book, Ordaining Women, great resource for this if you want. 729 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,760 It's not a long read, but it's a great resource if you want some good insight. 730 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:23,760 Yeah. 731 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,960 It's actually interesting that you mentioned that because obviously we've made clear how 732 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:32,560 we feel in particular or how we understand God moving through the Bible. 733 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,320 And once again, if you disagree with us, that's okay. 734 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,320 We're still going to love you anyways. 735 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,560 We're still going to love each other anyways. 736 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,840 And we'll probably get to heaven and figure out that we're both wrong. 737 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:42,840 Right? 738 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:43,840 B.T. 739 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,040 Robert's book is like 120 years old. 740 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,040 It's like 140 now. 741 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,040 Yeah. 742 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,800 It's like 140 now. 743 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,800 So 140 something like that. 744 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,560 So this conversation is not new. 745 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:54,720 It's actually been around for a while. 746 00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:56,880 In fact, this is another interesting piece. 747 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,040 Just somebody throwing in here at the end of the podcast. 748 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,080 There is during the time of the Reformation in Germany, there was a pastoral wife like 749 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,760 that were part of the Reformation movement and they had a big church. 750 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:11,600 The husband died and the wife continued to pastor the church. 751 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,520 And she was the one who was actually leading the church. 752 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,560 And it was one of the most productive churches in Germany during that time. 753 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,040 Like it's just fascinating to me that we just gloss over that. 754 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,560 Yeah. 755 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,680 So hopefully what this is helping you do is play some context and some framework around 756 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,060 these things. 757 00:35:28,060 --> 00:35:32,320 I'm not trying to solve all your issues with Leviticus today because quite honestly, you 758 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:33,480 need to actually go and do the work. 759 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,800 I mean, we need more than just like eight or nine episodes in Leviticus to do that. 760 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:38,800 Yeah. 761 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,880 In fact, if you have a specific law that you have a question about, we have a Q&A coming 762 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,680 up in the next couple of episodes. 763 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,560 I think it's three episodes away. 764 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,640 So you should send us an email at lovingcontexts.gmail.com. 765 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:54,120 You can send us some messages on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and you can also comment 766 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,120 us at our YouTube page. 767 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,500 Any of those places you can email and contact us and let us know like specific questions 768 00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:02,200 that you have about a specific line. 769 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,160 How do we place that in the context of the overall Bible? 770 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,160 Yeah, absolutely. 771 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,500 We'd love to hear from you on that. 772 00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:10,980 We call this one the weird ones. 773 00:36:10,980 --> 00:36:14,560 And I'm hoping actually by the time we actually get to the end of this episode, you actually 774 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:15,960 don't think they're that weird. 775 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,480 Like you understand the purpose of these laws. 776 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,760 And I think that once you start to understand the purpose, you're actually able to interpret 777 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,480 them in such a way that it brings life. 778 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,740 Because we go back to the beginning and we talk about the sexual laws and what it means 779 00:36:28,740 --> 00:36:30,640 to look like different than everybody else. 780 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,120 What is that producing you? 781 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:33,120 We talk about slavery. 782 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:39,080 What does it mean when no matter how low somebody is socioeconomically below you, you add value 783 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,880 and you promote them up? 784 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,960 The good modern day parallel to that is if you live in a community where alcoholism is 785 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:51,040 a huge problem and you've taken a stance as a follower of Jesus, hey, as long as I'm in 786 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,080 this community, I'm not going to touch alcohol because you recognize it's a huge problem 787 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,000 in your community. 788 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,880 That's a similar thing that's going on here. 789 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:01,880 Yeah. 790 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,080 Recognizing that alcohol isn't necessarily sinful, but you're able to put on the kingdom 791 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,960 of God on display in such a way in your culture. 792 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:16,280 And then finally that it's not about your gender, that God has plans for us. 793 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,120 And he is reminding us that we're partners in this endeavor to work together for the 794 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,280 kingdom of God to grow his ways forward. 795 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,560 So that his name is put on display so that all his kids come home. 796 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:33,280 Now I think we would be remiss of saying that God doesn't require us to change. 797 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:34,600 He absolutely does. 798 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,380 We cannot follow God and stay the way that we are. 799 00:37:38,380 --> 00:37:41,640 Because the following God requires us to lay ourselves down continually. 800 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:42,840 Absolutely. 801 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:48,160 And so don't try to explain away Leviticus, understand it and then live through it. 802 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:49,160 Yeah. 803 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:50,160 Empowered by the spirit. 804 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,160 Absolutely. 805 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,520 So that concludes our episode today. 806 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:59,320 Again we have a Q&A coming up, so please email us questions, message us questions on Instagram, 807 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,480 Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, wherever you want to do that. 808 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,000 We would love to hear from you. 809 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,040 Thank you all for listening and until next time. 810 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,080 Bye bye. 811 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,240 That's a wrap for today's episode. 812 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:16,400 We want to extend a heartfelt thank you for tuning in and spending your valuable time 813 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,400 with us. 814 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:23,080 We hope that you found today's conversation insightful and that you take something meaningful 815 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,080 from it. 816 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,880 If you have questions or comments, we would love to hear from you. 817 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:34,480 Reach out to us at loveandcontext.gmail.com and we will be sure to get back to you. 818 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:40,200 There you can always engage with our content on all your favorite listening platforms including 819 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,160 Apple, Spotify, Amazon, YouTube and more. 820 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:48,680 Don't forget to follow us on social media at love and context on Instagram and Facebook 821 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,120 for updates. 822 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:54,880 My mic seems way louder than yours. 823 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,080 Yeah, mine does not seem like it's super loud. 824 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,080 Did I do something? 825 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,880 Did I do something to offend you? 826 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,720 You're like, we've had a little too much of Ben. 827 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:05,720 Some of this. 828 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:06,720 Yeah, that looks a little more even. 829 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:07,720 A little more even, yeah. 830 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:10,960 A little more, yeah, there we go. 831 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:11,960 All right. 832 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:17,800 Welcome to the Love and Context podcast with... I was perfect because I was about to crack 833 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:18,800 a joke. 834 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,400 You were like going all serious and I was going to be like, oh. 835 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:24,400 I forgot how to talk. 836 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,000 I went on a cruise and I forgot how to talk. 837 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,640 Well, I mean, you know, your main problem is that you don't have an iPhone. 838 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:38,680 I was going to try to sneak that by and then Ben's like, nope, nope, nope. 839 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,800 This roll. 840 00:39:41,800 --> 00:40:04,160 It's fresh.