1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,840 Hello! Welcome to the Career for Kids podcast with kids learning perioders. This is Maxwell 2 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:18,240 Valencia. And this is Henry Morrison. And today we have Nathan Hardshorn, conservation 3 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:25,760 compliance officer. Hello Mr. Hartshorne. Hi, nice to meet you guys. Thank you so much for 4 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:31,440 spending your time to be on Career for Kids. We have a great interview now. Let's get started! 5 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:40,880 So tell us what you currently do right now. So as you said, I am the conservation compliance 6 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:47,200 officer for the town of Westport. It is actually a pretty dynamic job. 7 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:54,800 Of all town hall officials, I probably interact the most with the public. This is for two reasons. 8 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:03,520 One of the biggest chunks of my job, probably the biggest chunk of my job, is when somebody has 9 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:09,600 wetlands or a stream, something like that on their property, and they want to get a pool, 10 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,480 they want to get a addition, or they're even just building a whole new house, they need to get 11 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,640 permits. So they have to go to the health department if they're on septic to make sure they're not 12 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:24,880 going to damage their septic system, then they would come to me and make sure that the impact 13 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:33,040 to the wetlands water course is determined by our conservation commission to be low. And typically 14 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:39,200 that's done with setbacks or buffer planting, so pools shouldn't be more than 35 feet from a wetland 15 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:46,480 line. And so I review all of those permits, I go out to the houses and I look at it, say 16 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,360 there's extenuating circumstances or oh things aren't as bad as they seem, 17 00:01:52,560 --> 00:02:03,440 or why are these trees cut down, something. And so I do probably 160 permits a year, 18 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:13,840 anything from a generator to a new house. The other main aspect of my job is enforcement, 19 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:21,600 and that's when people mess up. And that's the toughest part, because nobody likes being told 20 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:27,280 they messed up. So I might be on one person's property looking at where they want to build a 21 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:32,000 swimming pool, but then I see their neighbor, maybe they chop down their pool, and they're like, 22 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:36,400 maybe they chop down one tree, or maybe they chop down 20 trees, and they're all protected trees 23 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:44,080 because they're in the wetlands. And trees are very valuable to the wetlands, so that means I have to 24 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:52,800 get them to replace all those trees. And it is difficult. Like I said, people do not want to be 25 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,880 told they did anything wrong, and they certainly don't want to spend money to fix it. Removing 20 26 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:05,920 trees might have cost them $50,000. Wow, that's a lot of money for some trees, but I know trees, 27 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:10,480 as you said, are just important to the environment and the wetlands. 28 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:26,320 Right. So you start to develop a sense of how to talk with these people. 29 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:33,040 Some, oh, I'm going to go fix that, I'm going to go find some trees. Sometimes they will fight 30 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:41,200 tooth to nail. But you try to work with them whichever type they are, because getting them 31 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:48,560 to do it fixes the problem. If they don't do it, that doesn't fix the problem, and trying to make 32 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,920 them do it is a very difficult and laborious process. So that is why I say I sometimes meet 33 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,080 the most people. I'm doing all these permits, I go do site visits, people in other departments 34 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:05,200 don't do site visits, and then I also have to do all the compliance. And then the newest part of 35 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:11,760 my job this year has been looking for vernal pools, which are like ponds, but they dry up in the 36 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:20,240 summer. So they don't have fish there, or good habitat for a lot of breeding waterfowl for 37 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:26,720 amphibians like frogs and salamanders. And so they're their own class of wetlands, and we've 38 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:33,200 never really defined them in Westport. So I've been to probably 200 this spring, but I can't 39 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,080 just go on people's property. So if it's town property, I can go. If I have a permit, I can go. 40 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,000 But others have to knock on their door and say, hey, can I go look at your wetland? And sometimes 41 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,960 they're like, definitely not. Most of the time they're totally cool, they're really interested, 42 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:51,520 and they want to hear if I found anything. And I'll come tell them about the frogs or tadpoles I 43 00:04:51,520 --> 00:05:00,960 found, if I found any. So that's sort of the essence of my job. Like I said, it's very difficult, 44 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:07,680 but meeting all the people can also be a lot of fun. And I think that's a different question, 45 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:14,080 actually, that you have later. I understand. So how did you get to this position? I mean, 46 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:20,720 I know you said that this was like, out of all of the town hall officials, this is probably 47 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:28,880 the one where you most socialize the most and enjoy meeting the public, as you said, 48 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:35,360 like you have enjoyed. But how did you just get into the whole town hall kind of thing? 49 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,080 There's all these jobs out there. Why did you choose this one? 50 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:44,480 It's not something I would have expected. It's not something that crossed my mind. I often say 51 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:51,840 one problem I had growing up is that my dad is a professor. My mom was a school teacher. So I had 52 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:57,360 teachers as both my parents. My stepmom is also a professor. My brother is a professor. I didn't 53 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,600 have a good background in the variety of jobs that are out there, and I wanted a totally different 54 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:06,080 career. Not only are my dad's stepmom and older brother professors, they're all professors of 55 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:11,760 psychology. So yeah, town hall is definitely not something I'd ever thought of. And honestly, 56 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:19,440 I was unemployed. I was working at some random job early in COVID, and COVID hit, the whole field 57 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:27,040 crashed. So I was unemployed and then just looking and I found some website that was like Connecticut, 58 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:34,880 I think it was Connecticut Association of Wattland Scientists, and they had like career openings. 59 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:42,960 And so I saw a couple and I applied and that's literally how I got it. There was no real 60 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:50,800 like intention to go into town hall work. It was just that I found a job and it fit me because 61 00:06:50,800 --> 00:07:02,000 environmental and I studied at Wattland's in school and got the job. Here I am three years, 62 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:09,440 two months later. Congrats. So you went from being unemployed to not having a job you enjoy. 63 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:18,720 That's kind of awesome. Yeah. That's pretty rare actually. There's like this study and only 64 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:27,520 eight percent of people get to pursue their dream job. Is that your dream job? No. I don't say it's 65 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:33,600 not my dream job. I do like the job. Parts of it I do hate. I mean it is a job. It is work. 66 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:40,480 Like I said, it's very difficult because I'm like a cop but without the authority of a cop. 67 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:48,560 So sometimes people, I meet, most of the people I meet are great people. Some of the people I meet 68 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:55,600 are terrible people and people will lie about me. They will call like Jen Tooker, the first 69 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,240 select woman, say oh he rang my doorbell a thousand times. No I didn't. I ring it once. 70 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,560 You know but like just weird stuff that like couldn't possibly happen. So it can be very 71 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:11,760 frustrating and I'm pretty sure if you guys, I think you guys did interview a cop. At least 72 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:18,560 done it and he would probably say similar things where like sometimes no matter how nice you are 73 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:24,880 some people will be really mean and that is frustrating especially when the focus of my job 74 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:34,080 is just to help the environment and I do get to do a lot of that. But my dream job would probably be 75 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:42,480 creating parks. That is when I came up with this idea when I was five years old. I thought hey what 76 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:47,120 if we just spent money to buy land and create parks. As it turns out there's organizations that 77 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:53,520 do that. The local one for Westport is the Aspetuck Land Trust. I don't know how active they are in 78 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:59,120 creating new ones but they have they have various parks. They're owned by the Aspetuck Land Trust. 79 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:04,240 They're not owned by the city or the state. Sometimes they manage city land but they're a 80 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:11,200 private organization that's a non-profit that creates land for wildlife and for like hiking 81 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:18,720 on trails. And so that's a little bit closer to my dream job but it's difficult to do. It tends to 82 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:30,800 pay very very very little and the whole field is the field of environmental work is tough because 83 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:37,440 there's not enough jobs really to go around and people tend to stick for a long time. 84 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:43,760 So like in my office my boss has been there for 20 years and there was another woman who'd been 85 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:50,880 there for 35 when I started. She only just retired half ago. So there's only three positions and two 86 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:55,760 of them had been held for 17 years when I first started the job which means there's not a lot of 87 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:01,040 turnover. You know if somebody wants a job they might get the other job out of the three but 88 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:08,960 there's not three jobs. So you don't always get exactly what you're looking for but if you can 89 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:17,520 get at least close that's cool. Yeah so can you dive a little deeper into that and like what part 90 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:23,920 of your job do you enjoy the most and I know you said this but don't really like like other than 91 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:30,160 like the people. Yeah so the part I like the most is that sometimes I can really get through to 92 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:39,280 someone they're really receptive. One of the big focuses that we have is getting people to plant 93 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:45,760 American plants and even better they can plant only New England plants and that is because they're 94 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:54,000 part of the local ecosystem. It's because the local butterflies need those plants and what happens is 95 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:59,200 you go to like Europe and they might plant American plants and they don't help the local 96 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:03,280 ecosystem here and when we plant European plants they don't help the local ecosystem here 97 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:11,760 and it's worldwide. It's one of the worst plants in Japan is a plant that I planted in my native 98 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:16,800 garden at town hall because it's great here but it's terrible in Japan. So sometimes I talk to 99 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:24,000 people about this and they get really excited and they go nuts with it. They'll go to the 100 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:29,200 native nursery they'll buy 50 native plants which is not cheap you know they might have spent 101 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:37,280 and they plant all these wildflowers that are specific just to Connecticut and then the birds, 102 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:44,080 the bumblebees, the butterflies and moss everybody just absolutely loves it and really makes their 103 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:50,000 property much more ecologically friendly than just some lawn and so those are the big ones. I've had 104 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:55,120 a few wins like that. I've had some people who were like doing it a little bit and I got them to do 105 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:05,040 more and yeah so that happens and there are other people like I said who you know part of the 106 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:14,080 problem is when people have violations rarely do people intend to cause a problem. We're just 107 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:19,440 living our lives and like oh we just thought we'd chop down those trees and they're not really 108 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:25,280 thinking about it. Rarely do people do with malice sometimes they just want lawn which is useless but 109 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:32,560 that's the image we're given that oh a house should have this big lawn but then when I tell 110 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:38,720 them they can't in these areas then they get sometimes like I said I relate and say very 111 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:46,240 mean things about me which is very frustrating but I try like I said you try your best to be understanding 112 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:51,520 and because I again I don't like when people tell me I did something wrong 113 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:59,120 but if you I tell them look there's there's a path forward we can work with you there's certain 114 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,160 things I can't back off on I can't say yes you can turn New Orleans into a lawn and add dirt and 115 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:11,040 rocks and whatever but I'm not you know I almost never issue a fine it happens sometimes 116 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:17,520 because you're gonna have to spend money to fix the problem so I say why what's a fine I'm gonna do 117 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:24,880 but it is difficult I'm not an aggressive person maybe they should have hired somebody who's an 118 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:32,240 aggressive person but I'm much more of a collaborative work with people person some people just are not 119 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:41,680 set up that and they don't work well with me yeah I can kind of write that in some ways yeah 120 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:51,600 so um was all right I know this wasn't a dream job but did you ever imagine yourself doing this 121 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:55,440 or something like this 122 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:04,960 is definitely I saw myself doing environmental work um I didn't know that this kind of job existed 123 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:14,240 so I couldn't have imagined myself doing this um I imagined myself there there were like two phases 124 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:20,560 my first phase was I thought to be a farmer I grew up in suburban Kansas but it's it's a lot like 125 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:26,720 westboard just suburbia and but I always wanted to be a farmer I love growing stuff I love being 126 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:32,160 outside um and then I decided that wasn't for me for various reasons um and I thought I'd be I'd 127 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:37,920 work for like a national park um whether it's you know maintaining trails or doing restoration work 128 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,200 um all the stuff that parks need um I thought that'd be really fun the problem is living in 129 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:50,320 this area there's not many you know big parks if you drive north of New York City you can get to 130 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:58,160 some um state parks but there's just not that many and so so like I said it's not a job that 131 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:03,840 I would have known existed but it is good that it exists I don't know if I really emphasized the 132 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:10,240 point earlier um a lot of my job it's not to really prohibit people from doing work it's to 133 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:18,240 make the impact of their work less damaging than it would be otherwise so you still get your pool 134 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:24,080 it's just it can't be anywhere you might imagine it to be on property okay sometimes you have to 135 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,880 make it a little bit smaller sometimes you have to be a little bit closer to the house 136 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,920 it doesn't typically end up being much of a problem there are certain properties in 137 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:37,920 town that just can't get our pool they're just you know they're surrounded by swamp you just can't 138 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:46,800 put a pool in but generally speaking it's about making the impact lasting smart development so 139 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,800 so I think that's a little bit more thorough than I need to be 140 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:57,680 so when you were young who was like your main idol does that have to be related to like natural 141 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:03,120 parks and stuff but it can just be like an idol like my dad he's like an engineer but his idol was 142 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:09,920 Michael Jordan or something like that I never really had an idol and by never really I definitely 143 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:16,160 never had an idol um it's not that I don't admire aspects of people but I think that 144 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:21,840 but I think you know if you get too infatuated with someone you're always going to be disappointed 145 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,920 but there are aspects of many people out there that are worth idolizing 146 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,320 well I was looking at that question earlier I was thinking a lot about it and 147 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:40,800 you know when I was your age Bill Clinton was president and you know they put a statue of him 148 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:46,320 in Kosovo because he helped stop the genocide in Kosovo and that's a really admirable trait 149 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,880 and he didn't actually go fight and he sent troops but but they love him for that and that 150 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,440 is very admirable but if you look into Bill Clinton he had also a lot of flaws and so 151 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:03,840 you know if you were to idolize him you might be very disappointed so that's always been my 152 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,680 belief ever since I was a little kid that I wouldn't I just never idolized anybody but there 153 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:18,320 were aspects of many people that I thought were worth emulating so Henry what's your question 154 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:28,080 why like actually this is kind of a repeat oh never mind so what was the biggest highlight 155 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:34,560 of your career sorry say that again what was the biggest highlight of your career 156 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:43,440 the biggest highlight of my career might be sort of from a previous job but also not so there was 157 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:51,280 a previous job where I did wetlands restoration where my boss and I would go out we would you 158 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:58,480 know I'd carry 11 foot fence posts through a swamp on each shoulder we dig holes we put the posts 159 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,880 and we make a big deer fence to keep the deer out and we'd fill it with it might just be a 160 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:08,080 we'd fill it with it might just be like an old dilapidated farm field we'd fill it with 161 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:15,840 American plants you know trees shrubs flowers and they don't have to maintain it for years and so I 162 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:22,960 worked that job for a couple years unfortunately they got a friend of my boss's hired who earned 163 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,960 a lot less money than me and then one day they're like okay we're going to save money and get rid of 164 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:32,240 you which is the lesson that you never want to kill yourself for a job for a company because 165 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:38,720 companies will cut you to save a buck but I went back to one of those places that I worked on for 166 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:46,160 a couple years and it was great and then it was it was 80% because of my work at that place 167 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:54,800 and it was really great like the you could just hear all the the birds and the bees the frogs 168 00:18:54,800 --> 00:19:01,520 everything was just going nuts and it had been just sort of a rundown dilapidated farm just a 169 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:08,160 couple fields bought by the state or county I don't remember that were just filled with grass 170 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:14,480 and invasive species and you know we just really restored it and it's now a thriving well 171 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:24,160 that's pretty cool so what are the biggest challenges that you think can be solved by our 172 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:31,840 generation that really wants to solve them there are great opportunities one difficult and one easy 173 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:39,360 I mean they're both they're both difficult to do or to get done but one is easy to actually do so 174 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:48,080 the the first one that's extra hard is suburban sprawl suburban sprawl is is taking over like 175 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:54,480 crazy and like I said I'm from suburban Kansas City and it you know my my high school was surrounded 176 00:19:54,480 --> 00:20:03,040 by fields and forests now it's surrounded by houses and office buildings and you have to drive 177 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:10,160 for like 40 minutes to get to the fields and typically it's not very smart development 178 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:16,640 and like Westport does not have smart development it just has houses you know 179 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:24,000 if you if you really think about it and people generally don't New York City is a much more 180 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:30,880 environmental place than Westport or and I'm not picking on Westport but like any sort of suburban 181 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,760 area because if you take the population of New York City and the population of Montana you essentially 182 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:42,240 could take the entire population of Montana remove all the humans and put them in just like Staten 183 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:50,960 Island and then leave all of Montana for wildlife so like that sort of sprawl is actually really bad 184 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,680 for the environment because you need extra roads to get to the people you need extra sewer lines to 185 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:02,560 get to the people because we're all spread out and so trying to inhibit that is very difficult 186 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:09,840 because we have a growing population you know we we have not that high of a birth rate but it's 187 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:15,360 still high enough that it's more than you know how many of us die and then also we have a lot 188 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:20,640 of immigrants which which is great I'm related to many immigrants but it's just increasing our 189 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:26,320 population so we need to find places for people to live and then when we sprawl out it is difficult 190 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,840 on wildlife and there are there are places in Westport where I know 191 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:36,880 owls live and there are places in Westport where I know owls used to live but now there's a house 192 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:43,200 because they cleared all the trees and put in the house and they cleared all the trees so that's one 193 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:49,920 of the biggest challenges and that's why you know land trusts do a lot of their work is to say okay 194 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:56,320 yeah we're having this sprawl but we can still buy some of this land and set outside at least some of 195 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,560 the area for wildlife it's still not enough and it's very expensive when people are doing it by 196 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:10,960 donation the other thing that's that is difficult to get done but would be easy to do is that if you 197 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:18,800 look in your gardens that that your parents have maybe even you have very likely none of the plants 198 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:25,440 are going to be American and again that's it's just as part of the ecosystem so plants produce 199 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:31,040 chemicals that make themselves inedible as humans we can eat a lot of different plants were one of 200 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:38,240 the reasons we took over we can do that most animals can't most caterpillars need specific 201 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,760 plants and if you don't have caterpillars obviously don't have butterflies also if you don't have 202 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:47,920 caterpillars you don't have birds because most baby birds eat caterpillars as babies right and 203 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,120 so if you don't have American plants you don't have the caterpillars you don't have baby birds 204 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:57,440 you don't have butterflies you don't have moths and it would be so easy to just buy only American 205 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,000 the problem is you go to Home Depot you go to Lowe's you go to Walmart you go to almost any 206 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:10,000 nursery around and almost everything they have is going to be European, East Asian, and sometimes 207 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,240 African and all their plants are great for their ecosystems and the American plants are terrible 208 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:19,120 for their ecosystems it's just that the the American animals are evolved for the American 209 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:26,320 plants European animals are evolved for European plants and so on and so forth and if we just got 210 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:33,920 everybody to plant only American even though we have suburban sprawl their gardens are going to 211 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:40,880 be full of wildlife so there are nurseries that focus on American plants very few there's there's 212 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:47,520 one in Fairfield a native plant nursery I think it's a native plant nursery dot com I went there 213 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,920 and bought a plant there myself most of my natives I grow I grow I have like 500 pots of natives and 214 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,400 I give them away for free you kids want some you know send me an email I give them away for free 215 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:08,720 just to help get people to plant American plants and that is definitely again it'd be easy you're 216 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:15,120 gonna have a garden well put in American plants it's just that people don't know a lot of my job 217 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:19,600 really is about educating people and people don't know about this or they know a little bit about 218 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,840 it but we're really not enough they don't understand how important it is because they've never really 219 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,240 done the math if you look at every single garden around you realize every single garden has only 220 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:35,680 non-American plants you start doing the math there's a lot of European Asian African plants 221 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,720 in Connecticut and they're beautiful they're often very beautiful and I would love to go to 222 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:46,800 those countries or those continents and see the plants there it's just ends up being detrimental 223 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:52,240 to our wildlife and if we're going to have sprawl we need our garden South American plants so that 224 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,760 is a big challenge you guys can definitely do it I'm gonna keep working on it too though 225 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:04,240 um if someone wants to follow in your footsteps in your career what would you tell him or her 226 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:13,680 so when I was a much younger man they basically said you then and this wasn't true anymore but 227 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,360 they said you know you graduate from from college you get an internship somewhere and then they'll 228 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:22,160 hire you that was no longer the case though but it used to be the case you you get an internship 229 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:27,040 they hire you you know you start your career there through that internship now if you get an 230 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,880 internship somewhere they're like thank you for your your cheap labor or even free labor 231 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,680 tell us how you do you know and then and then you have to go um 232 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:42,400 so it's a lot harder to get jobs and I sort of referenced that earlier um turnovers very low 233 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:50,320 there's not really enough jobs um in this field and so the other the other side of that is 234 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:55,280 experience matters more than education I have a master's degree from an ivy league school 235 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,680 I had three majors and undergrad nobody ever really cared about me I had a degree in 236 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,000 undergrad nobody ever really cared about that they cared what was my experience what's my 237 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:10,720 knowledge base from doing actual work and and there's good reasons for that um you know a lot 238 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:17,440 of my job I didn't learn in school um I didn't know about the permitting process in school and 239 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,880 nobody does um now I'm very familiar if I was to apply for another job and say oh how familiar 240 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:29,760 with like the government permitting I'd say well in westport I'm quite knowledgeable um so now I 241 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:35,040 mean this this was even 10 years ago I was talking with some people in undergrad oh my 242 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,840 ex-girlfriend's little sister was in my field in undergrad and they all knew they needed an 243 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,320 internship every single summer so wasn't you graduate get an internship get a job no you're 244 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:49,040 a freshman in in college get internship that summer you're a sophomore get internship that's 245 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:54,160 the summer junior get an internship now we have high school interns we have high school interns 246 00:26:54,160 --> 00:27:01,520 in town hall um usually seniors I think sometimes juniors you know when you guys make it that far 247 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,560 there's a lot of neat internships out there if they're not long they're only like two weeks but 248 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:12,560 experience is the thing that matters the most um so you need as many internships as you can get 249 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:19,280 and then also when you graduate take any job you can get when I first had my master's degree I was 250 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:24,400 like well you know I got this master's degree maybe I don't need to take the three-month job 251 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,720 that is pure labor turns out I should have I didn't take it but I ended up doing it you know later on 252 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:38,640 um it's just they they want the experience so you need to keep doing internships and no job is 253 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,760 honestly no job is is too low of a job you got to do them all 254 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:53,440 okay so out of your entire life what is your main advice for kids listening to this podcast 255 00:27:53,440 --> 00:28:01,360 just like generally sorry um say that again so out of your entire life what is your main life 256 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:09,920 advice for kids listening to this podcast like in general you know you won't like this answer um I 257 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:16,640 think it's probably more honest than the other ones you would get but these days you gotta earn 258 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:22,080 money yeah you gotta earn money it's so expensive the house that I grew up in is now five times what 259 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:28,640 it costs when I when when when my mom got it um I earned twice what my mom earned but I don't earn 260 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:36,080 five times as much it's very hard to earn five times as much um not I'm not that old um it's 261 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,960 it's part because I mean there's there's everybody's trying to squeeze every dollar they can so 262 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,640 you know cars got really expensive the car company say what's inflation but it's not actually 263 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:49,360 inflation because they're making huge profits they are the inflation they're just charging more 264 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,400 um car parts they're just saying that they're more expensive um I held on to my car as long as I could 265 00:28:54,400 --> 00:29:01,200 but eventually I had to buy a new one it's old it's used um and and my income I think is fine 266 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,080 you know I don't I don't complain oh Westport should pay me more um but I definitely can't 267 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:12,160 afford to live in Westport I can't afford to live anywhere close um and and it's only getting worse 268 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:17,600 the prices are of everything is just going astronomical and again like I said it's because 269 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:23,760 everybody's trying to squeeze every dollar they can um all the Airbnb all the houses for rent the 270 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,360 apartments for rent the condos for rent that increases demand which increases the price 271 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,040 technically you know I don't blame a single person who has a second home that they rent the second 272 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:40,080 home but it does make it more expensive for everybody else they are by definition owning 273 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,640 a home they can't even live in which is seems like kind of a waste um there are good reasons 274 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,200 to rent sometimes but but it makes everything expensive so um honestly I would have gone for a 275 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,360 career where I would have made more money I could have done finance I'm great at math um and 276 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:59,600 yeah me too I could have uh earned a lot of money and then I could have bought some land I could 277 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:05,120 have bought a forest and just protected that whole forest and just said um whereas now I have to 278 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:15,520 really work hard to save money in order to rent an apartment and that is sorry sorry continue 279 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:23,360 okay yeah it's just so so it's very important so honestly because money's so dominant and because 280 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:28,880 things are getting so more so expensive and because my house is five times more expensive 281 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:36,400 than when I was your age which is not that long ago it's like you really just need the money so 282 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:42,640 I would recommend it doesn't have to be finance um engineering um you can make a lot of money 283 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:48,880 um there's a lot of business stuff you can do just it's you know honestly four year degrees 284 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,120 you only have master's degrees like I did you just get your four year degree you go on the right 285 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:59,920 business and and you can make good money it's not necessarily as rewarding as my career but if you 286 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:05,200 have that much money you can do rewarding things with it um you can donate to a land trust you can 287 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,560 donate to soup kitchens you can volunteer your time which is even more rewarding um and and do 288 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:20,160 and and do stuff with that money that actually helps um and so so the job itself might be a pain 289 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:27,280 but you can do so much good that that you'll still enjoy you'll say well here at work I'm not doing 290 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:33,040 the good thing but really because of the money I'm earning I just saved bald eagle habitat in 291 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:40,640 Connecticut thank you um so much for allowing us to interview you and to whoever is listening