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Hi everybody and welcome back to Airway First, the podcast from the Children's Airway First

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Foundation. I'm your host Rebecca Downing. As we say goodbye to 2022 and look forward

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to the year ahead, we wanted to take a moment to reflect on some of the amazing guests we've had

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on the program over the past year. In this episode, part one of our year in review, you'll hear excerpts

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from various podcast episodes based on topics such as airway health education, personal stories,

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healing, airway in the face, and speech and myofunctional therapy. Personally, I don't really

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are time pulling this episode together as it was really hard for me to narrow down the perfect

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excerpt from each episode because every guest brought so much amazing information and insight

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to the podcast. I'll include links to every episode in the show notes so that if there's

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something in the excerpt that you hear that resonates with you, you'll be able to access

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the full episode with just a click. So if you're ready, let's jump into part one of our 2020

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year in review. In this first segment, we're going to focus on education. So our journey with

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our podcast began with the question of why are so many of us sick compared to our ancestors?

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The answer to that question is the driving force behind this airway movement that the

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children's airway first is part of. In this first segment, we'll hear from award-winning

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journalist and author James Nestor and dental leader, professor, speaker Dr. Kevin Boyd.

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Let's listen to a couple of segments from their episode as James and Kevin laid the

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educational groundwork for the airway journey. We all know how to breathe, right? We've been

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doing it since birth. So why do I need to learn how to breathe? Well, you could say that same

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thing about eating or exercising, right? Right? So if we evolved or grew up in a natural environment,

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you don't need to learn how to breathe. You don't need to learn how to exercise. You don't need to

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learn what foods to eat and when you don't need to relearn how to sleep. But since we aren't in

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that environment anymore, since we're in an industrial environment, we need to relearn

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all of these things, how our bodies are naturally supposed to be. And so I'm not going to go move

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to a cave or to the wilderness. I want to live in this environment. And if you're going to live in

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this environment and not be sick all the time, you need to listen to your body. And it's not

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just that you need to relearn to breathe, but you need to relearn to do all of these different

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things. And breathing is just a part of that. So we have lost the ability to breathe properly.

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Just look at the data and you'll see that. I was shocked when I first found that, but it's

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but it's entirely true. Yeah. And we've talked about this in some other podcasts episodes, which

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you know, obviously I'll link to, but and you really hit on it. It's the industrial environment.

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I mean, that's where this shift happened, isn't it? Yeah. And all you have to do is either look at

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our ancestors, distant ancestors, or look at indigital populations that are still living in

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the way that our ancestors did thousands of years ago. And they don't have hypertension,

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they don't have diabetes, they don't have breathing problems, they don't have respiratory issues. So

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you know, they don't have lower back pain or foot problems. So all of the, I won't say all,

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many of the problems most of us living in the industrial world are containing with are

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our problems of our own creation. So if we have created these problems, these health issues for

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ourselves, then we can help reduce them or get rid of them. And that's exactly what's happening

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in self care and health awareness right now all over the world. At the core, if it's my understanding,

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is this whole disevolution that you were referencing, right? The jaws that you know,

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that we just suddenly don't have room in our mouths anymore. Well, there's many reasons why

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we're such poor breathers. And this disevolution is one of many reasons. I think it's the primary

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driver. Okay. Other people think, you know, being constantly exposed to allergens, to pollution,

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to mold, to dust, you know, can contribute to this, which is totally true. But I really think the

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shrinking of our mouths, the shrinking of the sinus cavities really had a lot to do with why

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we become such habitually poor breathers. And when I discovered that, you know, that

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in the course of about 300 years, this, this came on from close to zero, not quite zero close to zero

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to 90% of the population has some sort of malocclusion, which can impact your breathing.

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And it shocked me because I didn't know that evolution, quote unquote, evolution could

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act so fast across an entire population, but it can in a single generation. That's,

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that's what we've seen. So yeah, I think it's the main driver. But, you know, I think there's

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also an argument to be said that these other things have at minimum contributed to it,

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us not being able to breathe properly. You've done a lot of research on the modern jaw. And I've

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heard you speak about Darwinian dentistry. So I want to talk a little bit about the differences

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in our jaws, our jaws versus our ancestors. What caused it and why this is important to our health?

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You know, it's interesting. I borrowed that term, Darwinian dentistry from Randy Nessie,

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who's a psychiatrist from the University of Michigan, now at Arizona. And he has had,

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he created George C. Williams, an evolutionary biologist in the 90s, this whole area of evolutionary

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medicine. So he calls, you know, Darwinian medicine. And he wrote a book called Why We Get Sick.

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And I just was inspired by him and actually talked to him about creating a branch, if you will,

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or an offshoot and just call it evolutionary oral medicine that specifically does the same

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thing in terms of teaching students, pre-med and medical students and post postdoc training

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residencies in all branches of medicine about evolutionary explanations for why we get sick,

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the title of Nessie's book, and why do mouths get sick? Why do we get cavities? Why do we get

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gum disease? Why do we have crooked teeth and poorly formed jaws? So that's kind of where

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that came from. And I've since learned things by looking at skulls, mainly from the University of

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Pennsylvania's Museum of Anthropology and Archaeology, studying with Mariana Evans, who is, she was in

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the orthodontic department when I, with her, joined as a visiting scholar at Penn. And we x-rayed

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with cone beam, you know, three-dimensional scans in her private practice. We would take skulls out

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of the museum very carefully with permission and x-ray them and then compare them, the numbers

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that we use, it's called supplementrics of how orthodontists and other dental practitioners

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who provide orthodontic services to patients, they use those as norms. Well, the norms,

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normative values for the lines and angles and how the, you know, the face should be shaped and the

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jaw should grow are based upon a bunch of Caucasians from Cleveland area and in other places by a

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couple of guys, Steiner and Downs and later a guy named the Bolton Brush norms, it's called from

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Case Western. So we wanted to compare what we were getting on all of these people who died

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before the Industrial Revolution in the 18th and 19th century and to come up with an anthropologically

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correct base for looking at skulls. So that's how it all started for me. Okay. Okay. And what did,

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what did you end up finding? I mean, there's obviously a vast difference, correct? Yeah. And

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it's not, Mariana Evans and I, you know, we've worked really hard and long eight or nine years

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now, we've been doing this and it's really informed the way we practice, but there's other people

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who've done this. Jerry Rose is a dental anthropologist at the University of Arkansas,

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where I am an adjunct assistant professor there working in dental anthropology with some of the

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graduate students. And he's the one with Rick Robly, who's North of Doniston, Arkansas. They

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worked together and wrote a paper. And what they discovered is that our jaws in the last, you know,

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maybe a couple hundred years, that sounds like a long time, doesn't but consider it.

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But it's really not. Well, it's really not. And what we call modern humans or anatomically modern

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humans have been around for at least 250,000 years. And, you know, in order to survive childhood,

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you had to have perfect jaws. The foundation for, you know, getting out of childhood was,

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was you had to have that. So it's in our genome. But in the last couple hundred years,

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since the Industrial Revolution, jaws have gotten narrower. They've gotten further back,

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retrusive, and they've gotten longer. Okay. So our faces have gotten longer. Our jaws have gotten

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narrower. And our faces have gone backwards. So we call that, you know, retro-nathia.

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The Industrial Revolution, how specifically did that impact our jaws? What happened there

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that's causing everything to get smaller? Well, we think, and the hypothesis that we've laid out,

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speculation, if you will, is that it seems to coincide with women entering into the workforce,

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the textile mills and coal mines. And, you know, they, and what did that mean? Well,

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an ancestral pattern of nursing and weaning that went on, you know, pretty much for our entire

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existence as anatomically modern humans over 250,000 years, was that a baby newborn was immediately

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breastfed on demand for up to 10 to 12 months of age, maybe exclusively, but certainly the first

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six, eight months, all they had was breast milk or they died. Well, that helped build

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a tongue, a baby's tongue, starting in utero really about 20 weeks, is responsible for building

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itself a home to live in for the rest of its life. And that's called the hard palate.

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Every journey has a story. And the story of the Children's Airway First Foundation and how our

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journey began can be found on our website under Savvy Story. In these next several segments,

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though, you'll hear the personal stories of others and how their journeys have been impacted by

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their airway disorders. Let's listen as podcast and airway advocate Emma Cooksey, blogger, sleep

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and mental health advocate Kaisa Bradley, airways stenosis advocate Catherine Anderson,

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and mother and author Kelly Richardson share their personal stories. So I know everyone has a

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unique story. For those of you who don't know Emma and haven't ever heard her story on her podcast,

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you can check it out. Go ahead and if you would just share a little bit about your story about how

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you found out that you have an airway disorder. So as a child, I had huge tonsils. They called

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them grade four. They were pretty much touching at the back of my throat. But I grew up, I'm in my

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40s now. So I grew up in an era in the UK where they had swung from everybody having their tonsils

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removed to no one having their tonsils removed. So in order to get your tonsils removed, you needed

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to have a certain number of infections. Like people say, streps throat here, we say tonsillitis.

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But I would always have three a year and they wanted me to have four. So clearly I was not

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really that well and yeah, constantly having problems with my tonsils. I also had terrible

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allergies. But at the time, I had a big allergy scratch test on my back. And so I had all of these

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problems, which now in retrospect, I also was a nice breather because of what I had going on with

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the allergies and the tonsils. And I definitely went through my childhood, my breathing all the

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time could not breathe through my nose. Nobody ever mentioned that it was a good idea to breathe

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through your nose. So I know that you know where this is going. So then as a teenager, I had four

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teeth extracted. And I had retracted braces for almost three years. Yeah. And I just never really

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felt well again after that process was done. It left me with a very small, you know, I already had

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a small mouth and a narrow high arch palate and all these things. But nobody mentioned that there

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was anything wrong with that. So I just always felt quite tired. But I think that during my teenage

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years, I, you know, could explain it away with like, I'm doing a lot of stuff in high school. And

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I'm busy and staying out later. Maybe that's why I'm so tired. Right. Then I started university.

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And I was at university for four years. And during that time, I was always exhausted. And I would go

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to like lectures at 9am in my pajamas and stuff like that. But of course, like I went to university

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in Scotland where I mean, probably like any college, right? Like everybody's going out drinking all

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the time. And so a lot of it could be explained away by I feel terrible, but then I have been

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out really late and all these things. Right. So then after university, I spent a year traveling.

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And that's when I really started thinking like there's something wrong with my health. So but I

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started crying every morning in the shower, like every morning. Just an exhaustion. Yeah, just feeling

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like when I woke up in the morning, I felt like I hadn't even gone to bed the night before. And I

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definitely had a whole bunch of anxiety. And I would wake up with a pounding chest all the time

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and really had every classic symptom mostly that knee. I hadn't really just because I was traveling,

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I hadn't really taught to any doctors. Like I was starting to think there's something not right,

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but I hadn't really taught to anybody about it. So then when I got back to Scotland, I was working

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in Glasgow and I went to see GP there. And at that point, I kind of said like, this is all that's

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going on with me. And, you know, mainly I feel terrible. And, and he did like all the blood work

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and all the stuff. And came back and just was like, good news, there's nothing wrong. Like we can't

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find anything wrong. And, you know, it's probably just stress all of my 20s. I went to the doctor

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at least once a year to say, I feel terrible. I'm so exhausted. I feel anxious all the time.

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And so I kind of, you know, was treated for anxiety, but nobody really got to the root of why I was

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feeling that way. So I should just say, just so nobody gets confused at the age of 30, I'd gotten

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married to my husband who is from the United States in Scotland. And then we moved to Florida when I

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was 30. And I got pregnant right away with my first daughter. So then I would go to the doctor and

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they would say, Oh, you're tired and anxious and exhausted because you're pregnant. So years and

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years of just never getting to the bottom of what happened. So then I was 30 with my daughter was,

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it was actually like no joke, like a week or two weeks after I'd been to the doctor and they said,

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you're just tired because you have a newborn. And I took Katie to go see my mother-in-law and

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she lives about 40 minutes away. And we were driving home across the Buckman Bridge here in Jacksonville.

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And I just had that feeling that people have, you know, like driving where you have an intense,

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I'm going to fall asleep. Like my eyes were just closing and it was really scary. And I just was

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focusing on this truck. I was on like a four lane bridge filled with traffic and lots of trucks.

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And I just started thinking like, I'm going to hit that truck in front of me. And so I can't

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focus on the license plate. And then I had that momentary, like I fell asleep at the wheel.

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And then the next thing I knew this like slow motion license plate of the truck in front of me

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was coming towards me, like kind of slowly, but also fast. It was like the strangest thing. And I

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slammed on my brakes and we didn't hit that truck by some miracle. So then when I got off the bridge,

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I pulled over and I napped for like 20 minutes just to kind of take the edge off. And then I drove home.

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And at that point, I just gave the baby to my husband. And I said, like, there is something

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wrong with my sleep. But I called back that doctor who had just said, it'll all be fine.

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And I said, there's something wrong with my sleep. I just, you know, I fell asleep at the wheel and I

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almost got in a really serious car wreck. So at that point, they said, okay, maybe you should go

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and have a sleep study. And so I had a sleep study. And I went to get the results and they said,

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you have obstructive sleep apnea. And we're going to give you a CPAP. So I kind of left with more

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questions than answers. So your story is, as I understand it, began in your early teens.

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Yes, definitely. Yeah. But you weren't diagnosed or nobody addressed your issue at that point. You

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didn't start, you know, just to kind of lay the timeline out. Your mental health journey didn't

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really take on the form of a mental health journey until later, correct? Correct. I would easily say

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until I was 19 or 20. You know, I think for me personally, like, I kind of went under the radar

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because of that, because no one in my close circle believed in mental health. It was something we

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just didn't talk about. You mean they thought it was, it just doesn't exist or it's... To be frank,

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it's like take a pill and it'll go away. Gotcha. But like only if it's like really bad. And I feel

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terrible that that was the attitude. But it was just, it wasn't something we talked about at school.

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It wasn't talked about, you know, just it wasn't an opening. Not in your friend groups, not in your

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family. It just wasn't talked about. No. And I don't, you know, I don't feel like my family,

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like I don't put them at fault for not knowing. We just didn't know. They just didn't know. Yeah.

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So it was just, okay, this is how we're going to balance the depression. This is how we're going

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to balance the anxiety. And this is how we're going to balance the ADHD. And for the longest time with

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ADHD, I thought that was just in boys. That's what I was taught. And I was just like, well,

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this is just how my mind works. And it doesn't, it doesn't get better than this.

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Now, when we diagnosed with ADHD, was that in middle school, high school? Was that in your 20s?

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It's in my 20s. Okay. And just so our listeners will know, we will get to this because the

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part of your hindsight, what we're finding out is at the core of this, does actually relate to

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children's airway. And then that's why this is such an important message for parents to hear.

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So at what point did you turn to your website, to your blogging, to become your platform?

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Really, I know it started as dialoguing your journey, but it really has become this platform

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that is now this outreach to others that have a very similar journey.

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Yeah. So I want to say that it started sometime in 2016, 2017.

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Okay. I don't, I don't remember the exact time, but I, I just remember I was sitting in a therapy

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session with my nurse practitioner of mental health, and I wasn't doing very well. I,

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we were trying all these different medications, trying to find the right mixture and levels.

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I was sick a lot. And I just remember telling him, I am so frustrated with my lack of process,

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like progress. I'm just so, I, like I just felt so cooped up in my own head. And he suggested,

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he's like, Hey, you know, have you thought about writing things? Because of all the medications

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that I was on, I wasn't safe to drive. So oftentimes my mom, she would drive me to my

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appointments. And I was sitting in the car and I was telling her what we talked about in this,

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in the therapy session. And she said, I'm going to take it a step further. I think you should

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start a blog. Which, which absolutely makes sense. Now at that time, when you started your blog,

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you knew that you had anxiety. You knew about depression at this point.

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And your ADHD, correct? So you know those, those three. Yep.

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What point did your diagnosis of sleep apnea, and then the hindsight, everybody,

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let's look back and realize, Oh, wow, there was some kind of an airway issue way back here

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that we miss. When did all of that transpire? Oh, probably. So I was diagnosed with sleep apnea

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actually in the summer of 2017. And to be honest, finding the sleep apnea thing was a complete and

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total fluke. Complete fluke. Really? How? Yeah. I was, I was talking with my nurse practitioner

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of mental health. And I wasn't responding well to medication. I was improving with the blog, but

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you know, that just kind of keeps me rolling, but not improving as far as you mean, like your

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anxiety or ADHD that. Yeah. Okay. But something to note too is I was physically not functioning well.

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I was not getting out of bed really. I was having a hard time eating. I was dealing with a lot of

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headaches. Exhaustion. I remember sitting in my therapy appointment and my therapist for short,

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he was like, Well, I think we should get your sleep study. We should check your sleep quality.

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And I just looked at him like he was crazy. I was like, sleep is not the issue. I'm sleeping too

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much. And I'm tired. Like I understand like, it's like, yeah, there's a problem with your sleep.

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You're still tired after your sleep. But like in my head, it was crazy talk. I was like, no, no.

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Which I think is very common for people. I sleep, I'm fine. That's not the problem.

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Yeah. I realize it's the quality and yep. So today's discussion is a little different. And I

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want to make sure we level set that especially with parents that listen to our show, the condition

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that we're going to talk about specifically today, it is airway related. However, since it relates

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mostly to adults, however, there is kind of a correlation that we wanted to make sure that

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parents of younger children heard and especially, you know, those that are teenage and up. So

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the organization that you're with is living with idiopathic subglottic stenosis. And it is a group

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on Facebook that anyone can find, correct? Yes, that's correct. So let's go ahead and tell everybody

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a little bit about what is idiopathic subglottic stenosis. Okay, so it sounds like a really fancy

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name. Really complicated. But when you break it down, it's not as fancy as it sounds. Idiopathic

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means we don't know what causes this. Subglottic is just the area just beneath your vocal cords. So

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if you touch your neck and you feel it vibrate, just believe there will be your subglottis.

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As this is the location of the next word stenosis, which means narrowing. And you may well hear

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stenosis in relation to hearts and spines and all sorts of places where in your body way,

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you can have stenosis. But this is a narrowing just below your vocal cords with no known cause.

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So, but there are several causes that it could be. So they often start with idiopathic because

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investigations need to be done in order to find out a bit more information. So,

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right. And I think that's what makes everyone in our group with this condition. So,

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I don't know, unique, I guess, because you hear the stories over and over. We were all

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very healthy for the most part. We were athletes, we were active in our community,

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acted with our families, and then boom, we have an airway disorder. Exactly. It does seem to come.

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So for adults, it sort of appears generally 31, between 30 and 50, that's generally most patients.

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And myself, I was 29. So it's at the lower end of that when I first had my symptoms.

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But yeah, that's kind of the age group for adults. And yeah, it's very hard. I mean, one way your

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airway can be damaged is if you've been intubated. And there's a bit of debate amongst doctors about

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how long it is before scout issue will turn up in your airway if you've been intubated.

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But generally, it's accepted that it's within two years of that operation. And often we'll

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start wearing quite slowly but build up over time. At the moment, there's almost a pandemic of

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this condition from airway intubation from COVID patients. Doctors around the world who are treating

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our disease are treating many, many more patients. And they're people who've been in intensive care

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with COVID and been intubated during that period. And now the airway is damaged. And they're coming

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back later with this trouble with breathing. You know, I look at my story and I'm just

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unbelievably grateful that I have a story to tell because we caught it early enough.

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But what happened is my son, Finn, was born and I am a working mom. So my husband and I both had

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jobs. We lived in Manhattan. It's not cheap to live in Manhattan. It wasn't like I was going to

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take a year off. But I knew for those three months that I had that I thought, well, breastfeeding

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is important and I'm going to make it go at it. But when he was born, he wouldn't latch well.

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And when I mean he didn't latch well, it was a real struggle. I thought, okay, somebody's going

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to have an amniotic. This happens probably more than not. People have this. So I asked the lactation

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specialist there and they said, oh, you're just doing it wrong. Just adjust and keep pushing.

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And they kept trying to give me ways of physically moving him, but it just wasn't working well.

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And I was conditioned in a way to think, okay, nobody in the hospital seems to have answers.

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And so this must, I must be an anomaly because if this is something that happened on a routine,

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basically babies coming in and out of here, like, in my head, I see this all the time. So if this is

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not working for me, then it's me. It's definitely me. Sure. Something's going on here. But after

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that, right? Right. And so, but, and I also thought that somebody would have answers. And even within

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that week, I had no answers. But I'll go back the next day after just trying to try my best.

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I took that bottle that was in his little bassinet in the hospital and I stuck it in his mouth and

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he's like, he is just sucking away. He is like trying to live. Here I am, trying a different

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path and it's not working. And I just felt this huge relief that I can feed my child.

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So we talk, we talked to the pediatrician about this. And again, nobody's alarmed. Nobody offers a

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multiple solutions or reasons why it's just, oh, okay, well, he's losing weight. Here's a six pack

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of formula. And I'm like, wow, this is great. Now, you know, I'm off and running. Sure. Right.

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But at the same time, I was like, I bet you if I stick with this, it's going to work. So I, I'm

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trying to nurse him at home and then pumping in between that, not much is happening there either.

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So I was like, is definitely me. But I really went, went at this for like two months. Meanwhile,

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I'm also supplementing with formula. So this is kind of my two months within. And it, he started

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to gain weight, he was fine, but he needed the supplement of the formula. And okay, so after

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about two months, I just said, this is, we're not getting very far. Let's just go straight to that.

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And that's where we went. And when people or children or just anyone in general, when the

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tongue is not in the roof of the mouth and Finn's tongue was not in the roof of his mouth, because

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it couldn't physically stretch it up there. Nor did he know that it should be up there because

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by introducing a bottle, I'm teaching him this tongue goes down. And then his cheeks, these

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muscles are pushing in on the teeth. And for adults and or, you know, for children that have

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posterior teeth, but, but you know, you're not going to notice this as a baby. But what'll happen is,

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and I learned this when I worked at the Dawson Academy, Pete Dawson, he was one of the fathers

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of occlusion, dental occlusion, and he would say when teeth and muscles war, muscles always win,

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which means that the teeth are going to go where the muscles tell them to go. So if there's no tongue

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in the roof of the mouth, and your cheeks are doing all of the work. So for Finn, he was sucking on

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a bottle. Then we went to squeeze pouches. And the problem with these pouches is this is going to

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continue to develop these cheek muscles, which are going to continue to push things in. And when

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the tongue is not in the roof of the mouth, it's not going to develop out. So not only was the tongue

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tie a problem for not being able to feed or breastfeed, it was a problem because he had a

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recessed chin. And my husband's asked the doctors, you know, why is this chin so far back? You know,

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like, oh, that's normal. It'll come in. Okay, great. It's coming in. All right. All right. All

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of these already signs of disordered breathing or obstacles to proper optimal breathing were

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already there. And I had no idea. In this next segment, we'll focus on healing and how we approach

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patient care. Let's listen as Dr. Stephen Hall and Dr. Becky Andrews explain their approach

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of healing from a more holistic position and how they challenge the status quo definition

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of what healing could and perhaps what it truly should look like for both us and our children.

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Right. I remember a day when I was a third year resident. So I was in my seventh year of medical

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training. And I just finished my afternoon in the clinic. And I was walking back to the

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resident's room to dictate my notes. And I was just thinking about the patients I'd seen that

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afternoon and ask myself the question, well, what prompted them to actually pick up the phone,

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make an appointment and come in? What are they really looking for? And I thought about, you know,

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the person with hypertension and the person with diabetes and then I thought, well, what if they're

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really looking for healing? And I stopped in my tracks because here I was in my seventh year of

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medical training and I didn't know what healing was. I know. I bet that still boggles me. Yeah.

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Yeah. And because for one thing, medicine likes to be a scientific endeavor, right?

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And in science, we always define our terms so we have a precise language so that we all know

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what we're talking about when we talk to each other. Which makes sense. Yeah. So how could there be

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this multi-billion dollar science-based healthcare industry with no concept of health?

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No true definition. Right. No true definition. So I thought, well, I got to remediate that problem.

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So I started searching for a definition of health or healing. And seven years later,

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I started to get an appreciation for why nobody did. Nobody's that one. Right.

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Right. So but what I noticed in that time was that even though I didn't have a precise definition,

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and I'd gone through several by that time, there were like one, there was back in that day,

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there's an organization called the American Holistic Medical Association. And their definition of

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healing was balance in harmony with the cosmos. And I thought, well, that sounds pretty good. But

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how do you do that in the exam room? Yeah. I mean, that's kind of like, okay, Mrs. Smith,

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today we're going to put you in balance in harmony with the cosmos. But what I realized later. Yeah.

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Yeah, exactly. And what I realized later is, no, that's actually the effect of healing. That's not

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what healing is. That's a result of healing that you come into that balance. Even though I didn't

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have a definition of healing, I could kind of recognize it when one of my patients experienced

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it. Yeah. And so I asked myself the question, okay, so by that time, I knew healing was more

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than just how your physical body functioned. Obviously, you needed mental health too. And

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you needed healthy relationships and all kinds of things, right? Healthy sleep,

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that all kinds of things. So I got to thinking, well, so if if somebody has symptoms, that's a

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clue that they need healing. And the resolution of the symptoms is a clue the healing has happened.

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It's not the actual healing itself. So the symptoms, the clue, and when the symptom goes away,

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that's a clue that it has happened. So I started looking at my patient, well, what else happened

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to them then besides the resolution of their symptoms? And what I saw was that they had learned

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something. And what they had learned almost inevitably had deepened their understanding of

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themselves. It had given them a deeper perspective of who they were and it helped them be more in

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their power and along those lines, right? And so I asked myself the question, well, what if that

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learning about who they are is the actual healing? And again, that might just be a side effect of the

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healing. But what that did was that got me focusing on, well, I want to when I'm treating a person,

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I want the net result to be that they also deepen their understanding of themselves,

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not just have the symptom go away. Right. And so I started looking for therapies that both,

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you know, helped a person find the imbalance that's being expressed as a symptom and correct

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and the imbalance, but at the same time, learning about themselves. So that's, that's basically

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what I've been trying to do for the last 37, 38 years now at this point. So Western Medicine has

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a fundamental assumption that disease can just happen. It can just be bad luck or it, you know,

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like almost like an accident that you got this chronic degenerative disease, which in our philosophy

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is that the body will heal itself if nothing's in the way, that our bodies have a natural inclination

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towards homeostasis. And so as naturopathic doctors, instead of just trying to cut off and make, get

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rid of the symptom or eliminate the symptom, we look at why is the symptom happening? What is that

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telling us? And, and what we call it, we call it a find and treat the cause is one of the words,

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the phrases that we use. And another phrase in our philosophy is remove the obstacle to cure.

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And that one's a really, really, you see one that I've always really liked. And that is what is in

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the body's way of healing itself. The other way we really are different from conventional doctors is

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that we don't fragment care. So, you know, in the conventional system, especially now,

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you've been, they pretty much don't have generalists. Like really, your primary care doctors have been

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reduced, especially in here in Texas, what I've seen is primary care doctors don't actually give

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care at all, unless it's just an antibiotic. Right. It's something response to somebody,

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to somebody, some other specialist. Anyway, so I that that level of fragmentation, I think really

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utterly destroys any hope of integrity of care. Right. And so the naturopathic doctors are trained

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to look at all the systems. And most importantly, how they connect to each other. Right. And so,

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you know, one of my favorite examples of this would be somebody that has, I think I would,

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yeah, some, I'll just go ahead and give you an example now. Somebody like you say you have a

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patient that has a sinus infection and has like IBS, and then they also have anxiety and depression.

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Conventional medicine would send them to a gastroenterologist, an EENT, or an allergist,

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and a psychologist or a psychiatrist. Correct. They would treat them as if those were three

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completely separate things. As a naturopath, I would be like, hmm, that's all the same cause.

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One of the areas we advocate for children's airway first is for airway examinations at birth.

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In this segment, you'll hear how Dr. Tasha Terzo and Autumn Henning explain why these

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early examinations and interventions are so critical for identifying the signs of airway

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and oral facial dysfunction and in preventing long-term health problems. There's really no

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good way to ask that. I mean, how do you approach that? You have a, yeah, you have a patient that's

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coming in that you know they're having issues and here they are, they're getting ready to either have

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orthodontic work done, you know, in their teen years or now you're in your 30s or 40s and you

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had that work done and now you're presenting with chronic allergies, sleep apnea, things of that nature.

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Yeah. Well, it begins with early intervention. So I'm all hyped up about children. I have children

375
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,880
myself, actually they're now young adults or they're trying to be young adults, we'll put it that way.

376
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:15,600
Anyhow, I'm very passionate about children and if you know, if I could probably retire now and

377
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:20,400
feel fulfilled because I know I've helped so many children, it's about and now it's all about

378
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:26,400
education. That's educating parents, educating my colleagues, educating the dental world,

379
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:33,840
the malfunction world about what are the signs that we see right when a baby's born that is going

380
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,640
to tell us that this one is going to have an airway issue. So the airway issue typically comes

381
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:46,240
before the teeth comes in. So the teeth come in, the teeth are coming in after the second swallow

382
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:52,720
are already in place and the second swallow have more to do with increasing oral volume

383
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,160
than our teeth do. Our teeth are simply coming together so we can now have a couple of things.

384
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:05,440
We can chew and the chewing and the function of chewing and how we're chewing very much dictates

385
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:12,400
the growth of the mandible. So this is the epigenetics. This is how we use our function,

386
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:20,400
how the functions in our face work is what develops a face. So learning how, yes, go ahead.

387
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:27,440
Oh, I'm sorry. So the airway issue most of the time is there at birth or is it just

388
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:35,120
the signs of dysfunction that lead to airway dysfunction? Yes, okay, can can be identified

389
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,720
right at birth and it really has to do with how they nurse the second swallow of nursing

390
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:45,120
and it has to do with can they nurse on both sides? Can they actually have the range of

391
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:51,520
motion to turn their neck? If they don't, that's a subtle torticolus. So the birth experience

392
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:58,400
is one of our biggest formative experiences that we have in our life that shape and form

393
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,640
our head and our face because our head is what's opening up the cervix.

394
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:10,720
So the whole entire how the baby's positioned, the kind of forces that are happening,

395
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:18,160
the intervention that's happening from below up, let's say, have a huge effect on the functioning

396
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:28,080
of our face and our head and our neck. So the hands on if in my ideal utopia,

397
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:35,440
every single newborn would have an osteopathic treatment from someone who specializes in

398
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:41,520
cranial osteopathy, everything. And if I can get them early enough, because I will, I will go to

399
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,720
the delivery room with my mamas that I treat when they're pregnant, I was about to say at the baby

400
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:52,160
at birth, at birth, but you know, bring them to me a week later, I'm so happy. But those are

401
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:57,440
ones if I follow them all the way through, they don't need orthodontia. Because what we're doing

402
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:03,360
is integrating the functions. So it's the functions that get that go in the wrong direction, that

403
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:10,240
create a structure that then is holding a maladaptive airway. How do you as a parent

404
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:16,080
typically notice something like this or is or are there signs parents can see I mean,

405
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,160
obviously, you're not going to notice if the tongue is touching the back of the teeth or not.

406
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:28,160
But what signs is a parent can you look for, especially in an older child? So yeah, I mean,

407
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:36,400
it's interesting how a lot of things come back to myofunctional issues, right? And so we look

408
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:43,040
historically, you know, did they have early feeding, breastfeeding issues, things like that?

409
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:49,920
Do they have crooked, crowded, misaligned teeth? That tells us that the tongue is probably not

410
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:58,080
in the right spot. Are they a picky eater? And so they're having trouble chewing certain textures or

411
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:07,360
things like that. Do they breathe through their mouth or sore? That's a sign that things are not

412
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:14,800
developed well, there's an obstruction, whatnot. So there's lots of signs out there that can relate

413
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:22,560
back to the mouth. It's so interesting how the way we use our mouth affects things that are

414
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:28,080
seemingly not related. Right, that you don't think about like picky eater, for example. Yeah.

415
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:36,320
How does that correlate? So, you know, typically, oftentimes it goes along with tongue tie.

416
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:46,720
And when the tongue can't control the food well, what happens is kids get anxious, they gag,

417
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:52,720
because they can't move the food appropriately, or they spit food out, or they learn to like swallow

418
00:47:52,720 --> 00:48:00,080
a hole. And so these kids have these bad experiences with a certain texture or type of food, and then

419
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:06,720
they start avoiding it. And we tend to think of it like, oh, they just don't like it, or they're

420
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:13,360
just being picky. When really, it's an actual physiologic issue. Along with airway dentistry,

421
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:18,080
one way we can improve oral facial health for children is through myofunctional therapy.

422
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:24,800
In this segment, you'll hear from Lauren Ruffridge, Karis Laguerre, Daniel Drew, and Brittany Bailey

423
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:30,320
on how myofunctional therapy can help children thrive physically, emotionally, and mentally.

424
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,600
So, as far as, you know, children's airway, the way that this kind of associates with us,

425
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:40,240
is I would, I can correct me if I'm wrong, it's going to be more on the medical side, right?

426
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:45,200
Because then you're dealing more with jaw development, high arch palates, tongue ties,

427
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:51,520
that kind of thing. Absolutely, yes. And so the way it also ties in is that I've studied

428
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,240
oral facial myofunctional therapy, which is what we'll be talking about a little bit later. And then

429
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:02,640
also oral restrictions or tethered oral tissues, which are more commonly known as tongue tie,

430
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:10,080
lip tie, cheek ties, or buckle ties. So cheek ties. Yeah, you can even have ties in the inside of

431
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:16,880
your cheek that can impact feeding. Those don't impact it the most when you're comparing to the

432
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:23,600
tongue and the lip, but it's all relevant to each individual. So I've done continuing education in

433
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:30,160
those areas, but they all tie into airway because everything starts with our airway. And if our

434
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:36,960
airway is not intact, and if we are not able to adequately breathe through our noses, which is what

435
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:44,240
we're supposed to be able to do, it then kind of has a ripple effect on the entire oral facial

436
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:50,480
structure, development, and the functions in which we use our mouth, our nose for. So breathing,

437
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:56,480
speaking, and eating. And eating. So that's kind of how it all ties in because those are the areas

438
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:02,560
that I'm working within. And the airway, of course, dictates so much more than most parents and

439
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:09,680
people know that. That's why I'm so glad that you're bringing awareness to this whole topic. And I

440
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,640
love everything that you guys are doing. I think it's wonderful. Yeah. Well, thank you very much.

441
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:20,560
Yeah. And really help us understand what tongue ties are. And if you wouldn't mind expanding a

442
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,640
little bit on that, because I didn't realize until recently there was something called a cheek tie.

443
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:31,200
I had no idea. And if you're working with a younger child, you know, is this something that,

444
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:35,200
if it were to happen to an infant, could impact something like breastfeeding?

445
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:43,040
Absolutely. So when we're talking about ties, and especially in the oral cavity, so in the mouth,

446
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:49,280
we're looking at the tongue as one. If you're looking at your tongue, there is a natural soft

447
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:55,520
tissue connection that everybody has. It connects the base of the tongue to the floor of the mouth.

448
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:00,960
Now some people have one that is short or very restrictive, so they can't get a lot of movement

449
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:07,360
from it. It's very tight, or it's just very short in length. And so they can't get optimal function

450
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,680
from their tongue. And our tongue has a lot of different functions that it has to perform.

451
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:17,200
So our tongue can elevate, it can protrude, it can lateralize, it can cut, it can retract,

452
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:23,680
it does all these different things. But if you've got a short connection or a tight connection,

453
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:29,440
that's a phrenum that is going to be impeding you from making a lot of those movements or from

454
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:36,560
doing so optimally. That's when we were considering you tongue tied. And very big on function over

455
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:42,480
appearance. So just because something looks like a tie doesn't necessarily means it is one. And

456
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:49,280
that's a whole another podcast for another day. Okay. So when we're looking at our cheeks, because

457
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:55,760
you just discovered cheek ties, and there's also lip ties top and bottom, there are little phrenums.

458
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:02,320
And if you've ever like done a scary face or you've ever flipped your lip at somebody for whatever

459
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:07,280
reason, why would you do something like that? Right. You probably see that connection. It goes

460
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:14,080
from the lip to the the ridge where the gum line of the teeth. And it goes from the cheeks on the

461
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,960
inside. If you ever take your tongue and you rub around. So sometimes those are also tight

462
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:24,560
and restrictive. And those can impede a lot of different actions. So it's going to impair for

463
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:29,120
children. When we're talking about babies specifically actually, when we're talking about the tongue

464
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:36,720
tied the tongue has to be able to come over the gum ridge that lower gum ridge in order to get and

465
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:42,160
compress against the nipple appropriately to get a great pumping action for breastfeeding, because

466
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,800
we've got to win a lot of that tissue and they've got to extract that milk. It's that liquid gold,

467
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:52,560
right? Right. You can't get it. If they are unable to move that tongue forward to that spot,

468
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:57,920
or unable to compress or lift up adequately against the breast tissue. So sometimes you'll

469
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:02,800
find that it's painful because they're using just that ridge as they're trying to compress

470
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:08,800
that tissue against the breast. And a lot of mothers are suffering with that. Sometimes they

471
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:15,040
can't get an open enough, uh, gait of the mouth. And so that's a flange when the breastfeeding,

472
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:19,840
they can't get that opening of the mouth because it's tight on the lips. Their lips just can't

473
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:28,560
expand to go up and over to really grab a lot of that nipple tissue or our sucking pads on babies

474
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:33,840
are very prominent and important because that's what they do. That's how they gain nutrition when

475
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,960
they're little. They have to suck either it's a breast or a bottle, but they're sucking in that

476
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:45,520
motion to gather the lich liquid. So those sucking pads, you might not be able to suck as adequately

477
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:53,440
your buckle ties or those cheek ties, name key that. So that's our babies. But then as you get

478
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:58,400
older, let's say we don't catch it when you're a baby, you get a little older and your child,

479
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:06,320
all of these can impact speech, feeding, breathing, sleeping in numerous ways. And it just compounds

480
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:14,560
as you get older and older. So get through childhood into adulthood. It's really going to be

481
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:21,840
our high risk people for acid reflux, different digestive diseases. A lot of them with obstructive

482
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:28,480
sleep apnea or just several sleep breathing disorders that we could go on and on about

483
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:34,320
the different manifestations that manifest so differently in everybody. But it is very important

484
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:39,280
to be aware of. So when you're resting your tongue and your roof of your mouth, we talk about this

485
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:44,800
a lot. And I've said another podcast, I always try to do this, which I'm sure parents are doing

486
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:50,000
when they're listening to it. We all try to do it. Yeah, exactly. What does it look like? So when

487
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:54,320
you're trying it at home, how do you know if you're doing this correctly or if you have a tie?

488
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:03,120
Oh, yeah. We want the tip of the tongue on the spot or right behind the two front teeth on that

489
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:11,200
little piece of skin where we typically maybe burn on a piece of pizza. And then we want the middle

490
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:16,720
and the back of the tongue fully up. And this is me all the time in sessions, putting my hands up.

491
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:24,080
This is your tongue. And if you're able to suction your tongue gently to the roof of your mouth

492
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:32,720
comfortably, that's kind of an indication maybe you don't have a tongue tie. But if you're

493
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:40,640
doing so and it's effortful, and there's other muscles that you have to engage,

494
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:47,440
like in your neck or in your eyes as you're lifting your tongue up, then that's kind of an

495
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:56,000
indication of either like a tongue tie or a tongue restriction. But it could also be low tone,

496
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:00,960
low tongue tone. And when you were talking about jaw surgery, I just kind of want to go back and

497
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:07,920
revisit that just for a moment because there are times, yes, that is the only option. I get that.

498
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:13,600
But it was kind of the way you said it that really resonated with me. So

499
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:21,840
you were being advised to do that more from just cosmetic. Yes.

500
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:28,320
When people are looking at it from, okay, wow, you have a retreated jaw, let's bring it forward.

501
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:32,960
So as a parent, how would you know the difference? How did your parents know the difference?

502
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:42,560
I agree with you. Time and place, it is definitely needed at times. For us, how we were being advised

503
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:48,960
for it, it wasn't for the root of the issue. It wasn't even for the issue. It was just like, wow,

504
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:58,400
you're really narrow palate. Your jaw is retro-nathic, pushed back. And so those are good points.

505
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:05,920
And we went into Mayo with the mindset of, okay, let's try this first. Because it was such a big

506
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:14,320
leap. And due to other layers I had, it was going to be really risky. And so we wanted to be fully

507
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:22,960
certain. And some people do go through Mayo and then they still need jaw surgery. But Mayo was a good,

508
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:30,160
let's narrow it down. Let's really learn deeper what's going on orally. And then after we've done

509
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:39,440
that, let's see what is needed for jaw surgery. And for me, it wasn't. No longer needed or recommended.

510
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:44,400
Wow. So the Mayo was enough to help with the retreating jaw in your case?

511
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:53,680
Yes. Wow. Yeah. So it's fascinating. My jaw was back, but really is because of my tongue.

512
00:57:54,800 --> 00:58:04,160
And the tongue, it has a resting place. And for most people, prior to Mayo, it's low. It's on the

513
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:11,280
bottom of the mouth or kind of hovering or pushing forward on teeth. And especially at night, that

514
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:19,200
has the potential for the tongue and the jaw to slide back. But part of the Mayo goal pretty much

515
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:24,320
for everyone is to get the tongue up on the palate. And when you do that, the jaw automatically comes

516
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:33,200
forward. So for me personally, again, everyone's so different. I was able to learn a proper tongue

517
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:38,320
placement, which then rippled into the jaw alignment, which then helped my jaw joint,

518
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:43,680
the integrity of it and my clenching. And for me, those were just the missing puzzle pieces.

519
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:48,000
It wasn't something we needed to change structurally. It was more behaviorally.

520
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:56,000
Thanks for joining us for part one of our 2022 year and review podcast. If you're new to our podcast,

521
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:00,640
please don't forget to subscribe. And if you enjoyed today's episode, leave us a review or

522
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:05,680
comment telling us about what you enjoyed most. You can stay connected with the Children's Airway

523
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:11,920
First Foundation by following us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Parents are

524
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:16,880
also encouraged to join us here, our Facebook Parent Support Group, the Airway Huddle, at

525
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:24,640
facebook.com, backslash groups, backslash airway huddle. If you haven't already, check out our new

526
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:31,360
YouTube channel. You can find a variety of informative original video content pieces,

527
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,920
as well as the video recordings and excerpts from select Airway First podcast episodes.

528
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:41,680
If you'd like to be a guest or have an idea for an upcoming episode, shoot us a note via the

529
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:48,720
contacts page on our website or send us an email directly at info at childrensairwayfirst.org.

530
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:54,000
And finally, thanks to all the parents and medical professionals out there that are working

531
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,680
hard to help make the lives of kids around the globe just a little bit better.

532
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:05,440
From all of us at Children's Airway First, happy new year. Take care, stay safe, and happy breathing,

533
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:35,280
everyone.