1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,440 Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of Airway First, the podcast from the Children's 2 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:20,520 Airway First Foundation. I'm your host, Rebecca Downing. My guest today is award-winning author 3 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:26,480 James Nester. Over the course of his career, James has written for Scientific American, 4 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:33,760 Outside Magazine, BBC, The New York Times, The Atlantic, NPR, and many more. In his latest 5 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:39,680 book, Breath, The Science of a Lost Art, he explores how the human species has lost the 6 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,620 ability to breathe properly and more importantly, how we can get it back. 7 00:00:44,620 --> 00:00:49,240 Breath spent 18 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list in its first year of release 8 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:54,200 and has sold more than 1 million copies. It was also awarded the best general nonfiction 9 00:00:54,200 --> 00:01:00,360 book of 2020 by the American Society of Journalists and Authors. James has spoken around the world 10 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:05,080 at a variety of venues including Stanford Medical School, Harvard Medical School, the 11 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:10,320 United Nations, and more than 60 radio and television shows. We are also proud to have 12 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:15,160 James as a member of the Children's Airway First Foundation advisory board. You can 13 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:23,080 find out more about James at MrJamesNester.com. And now, here's my interview with James Nester. 14 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:28,160 James, thank you so much for being on the program today. We really appreciate it. 15 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,320 Thanks for having me here. 16 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:36,440 Absolutely. Right out of the gate, I would like to ask you something from your book. 17 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:43,680 I'll have a link to your book, Breath, in the show notes as well. It was something that 18 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:48,160 caught my attention when I was actually reading the book. We all know how to breathe, right? 19 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:53,280 We've been doing it since birth. So why do I need to learn how to breathe? 20 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:58,600 Well, you could say that same thing about eating or exercising, right? 21 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,600 Right, yeah. 22 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:07,560 So if we evolved or grew up in a natural environment, you don't need to learn how to breathe. You 23 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:13,400 don't need to learn how to exercise. You don't need to learn what foods to eat and when. You 24 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:19,040 don't need to relearn how to sleep. But since we aren't in that environment anymore, since 25 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:24,800 we're in an industrial environment, we need to relearn all of these things, how our bodies 26 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:31,160 are naturally supposed to be. And so I'm not going to go move to a cave or to the wilderness. 27 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,800 I want to live in this environment. And if you're going to live in this environment and 28 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:42,240 not be sick all the time, you need to listen to your body. And it's not just that you need 29 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:47,680 to relearn to breathe, but you need to relearn to do all of these different things. And breathing 30 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:54,080 is just a part of that. So we have lost the ability to breathe properly. Just look at 31 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,120 the data and you'll see that. I was shocked when I first found that, but it's entirely 32 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,120 true. 33 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:04,920 Yeah. And we've talked about this in some other podcast episodes, which, you know, obviously 34 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:09,680 I'll link to, but and you really hit on it. It's the industrial environment. I mean, that's 35 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,560 where this shift happened, isn't it? 36 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:20,600 Yeah. And all you have to do is either look at our ancestors, distant ancestors, or look 37 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:26,000 at indigital populations that are still living in the way that our ancestors did thousands 38 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:32,360 of years ago. And they don't have hypertension. They don't have diabetes. They don't have 39 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,840 breathing problems. They don't have respiratory issues. So, you know, they don't have lower 40 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:43,680 back pain or foot problems. So all of the, I won't say all, many of the problems most 41 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:51,520 of us living in the industrial world are containing with our problems of our own creation. So if 42 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:57,320 we have created these problems, these health issues for ourselves, then we can help reduce 43 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:02,880 them or get rid of them. And that's exactly what's happening in self care and health awareness 44 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:04,920 right now all over the world. 45 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:13,600 That's very valid. So before we get too deep though, just to kind of give a little backstory 46 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,160 for those that are listening that may not have read the book yet, and if they haven't, 47 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:23,160 I highly recommend it. Would you just share a little bit about your journey because you 48 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:29,160 had your own airway or breathing journey, which played into this book, correct? 49 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:35,920 Yeah, I did. I was suffering from various respiratory issues. I was told that there's 50 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:42,160 nothing I could do about them really. It was just a sign of aging. So I was getting pneumonia 51 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:50,160 a lot, mild pneumonia. I was getting bronchitis a lot, at least once a year. I was noticing 52 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,520 I was starting to wheeze when I was working out. And what was odd about this is I was 53 00:04:54,520 --> 00:05:00,880 doing everything else that I had understood was healthy, right? I was sleeping, fine, 54 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,520 eating all the right foods. I was exercising all the time, but I kept having respiratory 55 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:11,840 issues. And every time I would have some sort of infection, I was given the old Z-Pak, given 56 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:15,320 some antibiotics, which works, you know? 57 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:22,240 But it doesn't fix the core issue. So it was something that I was contending with for 58 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:28,360 years. Nothing super major, you know? It's not like I was missing work from it, well, 59 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,160 when I had pneumonia I was, but it wasn't something that was impacting me all the time. 60 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,400 It was just sort of in the background, but it did seem to be getting worse every year. 61 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:42,760 And so I wanted to figure it out. And that's really what got me interested in this concept 62 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,560 of learning how to breathe correctly and improving your respiration and seeing what 63 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:59,120 that could do for you. And I'm trying to remember exactly how you just phrased it, but with 64 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:05,920 what's going on with breathing and the fact that we're just, we're all having these different 65 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,280 respiratory issues, right? We're all having allergies, asthma is on the rise. You're seeing 66 00:06:09,280 --> 00:06:16,640 all of these things. And you mentioned that you get a Z-Pak. We've all done that. But 67 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:24,720 we're not getting to the core, right? We're just treating the symptoms. And part of that, 68 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:30,320 I think, is this whole, I'm not sure if it came from you or where, but this global pandemic 69 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:39,560 of breathing. So at the core, if it's my understanding, is this whole disevolution that you were referencing, 70 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:46,920 right? The jaws that we just suddenly don't have room in our mouths anymore? 71 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:54,320 Well, there's many reasons why we're such poor breathers. And this disevolution is one of 72 00:06:54,320 --> 00:07:01,880 many reasons. I think it's the primary driver. Other people think being constantly exposed 73 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:10,560 to allergens, to pollution, to mold, to dust can contribute to this, which is totally true. 74 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:17,000 But I really think the shrinking of our mouths, the shrinking of the sinus cavities really 75 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:28,040 had a lot to do with why we become such habitually poor breathers. And when I discovered that, 76 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:35,880 you know, that in the course of about 300 years, this came on from close to zero, not 77 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:43,240 quite zero, close to zero to 90% of the population has some sort of malocclusion, which can impact 78 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:49,960 your breathing. It shocked me because I didn't know that evolution, quote unquote, evolution 79 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:55,920 could act so fast across an entire population, but it can in a single generation. That's 80 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:02,320 what we've seen. So yeah, I think it's the main driver. But you know, I think there's 81 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:10,160 also an argument to be said that these other things have at minimum contributed to it, 82 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,400 us not being able to breathe properly. 83 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:18,800 And they're also, well, I guess not also. So as far as, you know, contributing one 84 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:27,040 of the things we've done, and I say we collect blame on you know, calling anybody out is to 85 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:32,840 counteract our bodies have started many of us mouth breathing during the day and the 86 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:41,400 night this whole chronic mouth breathing thing. So why is this so critical that you 87 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:48,320 uncovered that we breathe through our nose instead of our mouth? Because I think at least 88 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:53,160 several I've done it right when I listen about yes, I've tested and it's a lot easier to 89 00:08:53,160 --> 00:09:02,160 breathe through your mouth. It's just easier. So yeah, so so why is that bad if that feels 90 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:03,720 easier? What makes that so bad? 91 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:09,280 Well, it's a lot easier to go through a McDonald's drive through every meal than to cook your 92 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:16,040 own stuff. So that's a fair point. Okay. Yeah, you know, we can breathe through our mouths. 93 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:21,440 We're designed to be able to breathe through our mouths as a backup system. And it's fantastic. 94 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:26,200 How terrible would that be just to have one pathway through which we can breathe? But 95 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:31,520 it is not the main pathway through which we should be breathing. You can when you're 96 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,520 really working out hard, you can default to mouth breathing for a little bit. And you're 97 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,800 laughing when you're talking to someone. Oftentimes when we're talking, we're mouth breathing, 98 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:44,920 which is one of the reasons why I think talking to people gets so exhausting after a while. 99 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:51,240 Not really focusing on how you're breathing. But and that won't make any difference. I'm 100 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:58,280 talking about habitual constant mouth breathing. And you know, this is not my hypothesis. It's 101 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:05,960 not my theory. This is documented over decades and decades and decades, hundreds and hundreds 102 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,680 of different studies looking at the difference between mouth breathing and nasal breathing. 103 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:17,880 So anyone that's looked at our anatomy can see what a complex, beautiful ornate structure 104 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,600 the airway is. And it's that way for a reason. You know, nature doesn't build things in a 105 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:29,960 very complex way by accident. Nature's very into building things as simple as possible. 106 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,280 What is the most simple and efficient way of building something? Nature doesn't like 107 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:40,640 unnecessary excess. So all of these structures are there for a reason. They're there to help 108 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:45,840 filter our air, you know, protect us. They're there to allow us to get more oxygen. They're 109 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:55,000 there to allow us to have more developed growth in our mouths and faces. So this is not controversial 110 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:01,320 stuff, right? And from what I've seen is no one has argued this point that the nasal breathing 111 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:10,320 is superior than mouth breathing. But very few people really apply that logic to their 112 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:15,720 day to day lives. And that's what I thought was so interesting about this is we've known 113 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:21,960 this for so long and yet look around. And so many people are probably mouth breathing. 114 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:30,400 Yeah. And you mentioned something about, you know, more oxygen. But if I understood correctly, 115 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,400 there comes a point where there's too much, right? Where we can actually breathe in too 116 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:41,160 much. No, you're not going to breathe in too much oxygen. It's, you know, everyone's been 117 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:47,800 focused on oxygen, but oxygen is easy unless you're really sick, unless you're at altitude. 118 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:54,480 Getting oxygen is the easy part. It's having that proper level of CO2 that's a lot harder 119 00:11:54,480 --> 00:12:01,200 for people. So you can over breathe, you can hyperventilate and your SBO2 is rocking to 120 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:07,320 99%, 98%. Great. Why do you feel so terrible? Why is your health so bad? What do you keep 121 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:12,640 having asthma attacks and panic attacks? It's because you're breathing too fast. So it has 122 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:19,400 less to do with oxygen, more to do with the volume and pace of each of those breaths that 123 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:24,960 you're taking in. It's just too much. It's like revving up a car. And when you're idling, 124 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,760 just revving the motor over and over and over, you're going to wear out the motor, which 125 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,160 is, you're going to wear out your body if you keep breathing that way. 126 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:37,440 Gotcha. All right. So it's the fact that it's just too fast or too much volume. 127 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:43,120 Yeah. It's, it's when we over breathe, you know, if anyone's done any breath work, you 128 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:49,360 over breathe for a specific purpose to stress your body out. That's what these vigorous 129 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:58,520 pranayamas do. You are stressing your body out. So in order to give you the power to 130 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:04,160 learn how to stress your body out specifically so you can calm it. So if you're unconsciously 131 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:09,800 over breathing all the time, you are sending your body and your brain stress signals. This 132 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:15,920 is just 911 calls over and over and over and over throughout the day. What happens to the 133 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:24,480 body? Blood sugar goes up, cortisol goes up, free radicals go up. You start losing sensations 134 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:30,840 in your fingers and in your toes. You're always cold all the time. So that is caused by this 135 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:38,440 chronic over breathing. Just like overeating is bad. Over breathing is bad as well. 136 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,400 So how should we be breathing then? Aside from through the nose? 137 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:48,200 Yeah, you know, everyone thinks like I spent so many years researching this stuff. Oh, 138 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:53,520 I found this secret and it's now trademarked and you can learn more about it when you take 139 00:13:53,520 --> 00:14:01,480 my fifth course where I lose the secret training of the breathing masters. There's no secret 140 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:09,080 here people. It's extremely boring because nature is very simple and your, what your 141 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:15,400 body needs is very simple things to support it. So instead of taking 40 different supplements 142 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,840 all the time, eat the right food. You don't need those supplements. Instead of paying 143 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:26,640 attention to every single step you take throughout the day, just work in a way in which you're 144 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:31,880 naturally walking throughout the day and you don't need to look at your pedometer. With 145 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,880 breathing is the same thing. Why don't these indigenous populations have all of the respiratory 146 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,840 issues because they are in a natural environment. Their posture is very different. They're paying 147 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,800 attention to the way in which they sit. They pay attention to the way in which they sleep. 148 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:53,640 They pay attention to the way in which they breathe when they're exercising. So it's, 149 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:59,200 the secret is just to do what your body is naturally designed to do. That's the secret. 150 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:04,880 This isn't about becoming superhuman or super breather. It's just allowing your body to 151 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,280 naturally do it. There's nothing wrong with our bodies. It's us who have screwed up in 152 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:14,800 our cultures who have screwed them up and now we're trying to get them back to that 153 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,000 balanced state. 154 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,000 So then what's the point of doing breath work? 155 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:27,160 Well, breath work allows you to become aware of your breath. It allows you to take control 156 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,280 of your breathing, conscious control of your breathing so you can condition yourself to 157 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:37,680 breathe better unconsciously. The more breath work you do, especially training in breath 158 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:45,080 holds or training very slow rhythmic breathing, naturally your body is going to find that 159 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,560 pace. It's going to find that rhythm and you'll start breathing that way without even thinking 160 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,880 about it, which to me is really the point of all this stuff. I don't want to have to 161 00:15:54,880 --> 00:16:00,120 be thinking about how I'm breathing all the time. That sounds terrible. I want my body 162 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,680 to naturally do it, but that takes a lot of conditioning and that's what breath work is 163 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,680 so good at doing. 164 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,680 Catch. 165 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:20,120 You're listening to Airway First with today's guest, James Nester. You can find out more 166 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,960 about the Children's Airway First Foundation and our mission to fix a force six on our 167 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:31,480 website at childrensairwayfirst.org. The CAF website offers tons of great resources for 168 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:36,600 parents and medical professionals, including videos, blogs, recommended reading lists, 169 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,640 comprehensive medical research, podcasts, and so much more. We also encourage parents 170 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,400 to join the Airway Huddle, our Facebook support group which was created for parents of children 171 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:51,640 with Airway and sleep related issues. You can access the Airway Huddle support group at 172 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:59,160 facebook.com backslashgroups backslashairwayhuddle. Are you a medical professional or parent that's 173 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,720 interested in being a guest on the show or do you have an idea for an upcoming episode? 174 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,160 Then shoot us a note via the contacts page on our website or send us an email directly 175 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:15,360 at info at childrensairwayfirst.org. As a reminder, this podcast and the opinions expressed 176 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:20,880 here are not a medical diagnosis. If you suspect your child might have an airway issue, contact 177 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:26,080 your pediatric airway dentist or pediatrician. And now let's jump back into my interview 178 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,280 with today's guest, James Nester. 179 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:45,080 And this is then we're playing into your comment about how we breathe during the day 180 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:52,040 impacts how we breathe the night then, correct? This is pretty controversial. This part of 181 00:17:52,040 --> 00:18:02,360 the segment of the podcast put up a big red flag because some ENTs and sleep medicine people 182 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:10,480 say how you breathe the day has zero impact on how you breathe at night. I tend to disagree 183 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:17,160 with that even though I'm a reporter, I shouldn't have attitudes or I shouldn't have really 184 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:23,960 placed myself on one side of the line here. I have to disagree on it because I have met 185 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:31,320 probably hundreds by this time of people who have used breathwork to improve their daytime 186 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:37,920 anxiety, their asthma or their panic or whatever. They say, my God, I used to sleep, used to 187 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,520 snore, used to have sleep apnea and either it's greatly reduced or sometimes people don't 188 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:48,600 even have it anymore. Just a real, I want to be super clear about this. Everyone's different. 189 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,320 So everyone's going to respond differently. So you can't say what's worked for one person 190 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,880 is going to work for everyone. But from what I've seen, there are no negative side effects 191 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,200 from improving your breathing. So you're only going to improve things are only going to 192 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:09,000 improve and time and time again, we're seeing sleep improve. But when you learn how to breathe 193 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,640 properly, have there been any huge studies of this? No, who's going to pay for that? 194 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:20,440 Right? Zero people because this is just allowing people to get off of CPAPs. You know, but 195 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:26,040 there is one in Stanford coming up about 200 people looking at sleep tape and sleep apnea. 196 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,720 That's being run by Ann Kearney down at Stanford. She finally got funding after looking for 197 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:37,200 funding for about five years. Oh, wow. From a private funder, of course, because who, 198 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:44,120 what a public entity would ever fund. So, it's allowing people to help heal themselves 199 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:49,320 for free. Right. So I'm going to ask you another controversial 200 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,200 one. I only know it's controversial because I've heard your response before. But I only 201 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,760 had one other person that would ever talk to me about this on the podcast. So we're 202 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,200 going there. Yeah, it's really not that exciting, but I just thought I'd practice it with that. 203 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:15,960 So, mouth taping. I know your advocate's not the right word, but your supporter of it. 204 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,800 And just, you know, from some of the things that I've read and some of the other people 205 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:26,560 that I've spoken with in previous episodes, that seems to be another touchy one at this 206 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:35,360 point. Where do you stand on that? Well, yeah, I never want to be an evangelist 207 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:41,960 for any of this stuff. I always want to be objective because if you're objective and 208 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:47,440 you don't have your hand in any of the cookie jars, you can call BS on stuff. And I always 209 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,480 want to be able to call BS on stuff because that's my, it's supposed to be my job as a 210 00:20:51,480 --> 00:21:00,120 supporter. So when it comes to mouth taping, I talk about my personal experience in the 211 00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:06,280 book from going from mouth breathing and snoring a lot to mouth taping and snoring 212 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:13,040 zero. I talk about my experience talking to other people who had that same experience 213 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:19,280 as me. And since the book has come out, this is the one thing I've heard more than anything 214 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:26,360 else over and over and over. No matter where I go, what place I do talks at, from doing 215 00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:32,680 book signings, people talk about mouth taping, how it has transformed their sleep quality. 216 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:42,040 In many cases, transformed their life. Will it work for everybody? No. No. Right. Is there 217 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:49,840 any negative side effect to nasal breathing during sleep? No. Can everyone mouth tape? 218 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:57,280 No. And a way to try to see if this is right for you is to put that little piece of tape 219 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,840 on and keep it on for 10 minutes while you're watching TV or whatever, and then keep it 220 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,840 on for 20 minutes and then try to work a few hours with that little piece of tape. And if 221 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:13,720 you find after an hour of wearing that tape, you just have completely forgotten about it 222 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:19,520 because it's effortless to breathe through your nose. I think my personal opinion from 223 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:25,920 talking to so many people about this, I think you can try it out at night and see if it works 224 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,840 for you. If it doesn't work for you, don't do it. If your nose is clogged, don't do it. 225 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:36,400 Don't do it. That's right. There's some common sense here. And now it's just, I can't tell 226 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,760 you how many interviews, even the New York Times just wrote about mouth taping. Wall 227 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,400 Street Journal wrote about it two months before that. It's now in Men's Health Magazine, 228 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:54,320 a huge section. And some ENTs say, oh, this is extremely dangerous. Don't fall for this. 229 00:22:54,320 --> 00:23:00,000 Get your sleep study immediately. Come on over to my office. So there's a certain logic 230 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:06,720 to that, right? Some people have structural issues in their noses. They need surgery in order to 231 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:12,800 breathe well, which is why you try these other practices of wearing it for a little while, 232 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:19,840 seeing how it works for you before you use it when you go to sleep. So common sense, 233 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:28,320 which is a slim supply. A lot, you know, a lot of throughout a lot of different areas right now. 234 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,840 So that's what I think of mouth taping. I love it. I have a real hard time sleeping without it. 235 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:40,080 It's the same for millions of people now. Is it right for everyone? No. Figure it out yourself. 236 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:46,320 Those are the tools. Right. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. Because it is, it's so funny. 237 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,240 I've had other guests that I'd asked and they just, they don't even want to talk about it. 238 00:23:52,240 --> 00:24:00,320 So I do, I appreciate that. Well, you know, because I think people see something online and 239 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,760 then immediately want to do it all the time, you know, without doing any of these initial 240 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,960 steps. And there's, there's other people who are really pissed off and sleep medicine. Some ENTs 241 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:18,960 were just like, you know, who are you to tell people that they can improve their sleep using 242 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:24,560 this piece of tape? You are not qualified to say this. I am not qualified to say that, but I am 243 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:30,000 qualified to go out and talk to leaders in the field over a number of different years and look 244 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:36,560 at the research. And that's what I'm telling you. And I'm also okay with telling you my personal 245 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:42,640 experience. Sure. And that's what I mentioned in the book. And if you have a problem with that, 246 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:49,680 too bad. I don't know what to tell you. You know, I just think this is something that is free. I 247 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,960 know it works for a lot of people. If you're careful, if you do it right, it might work for you. 248 00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:00,320 So why not give it a try? Why not? Right? I have strong opinions about 249 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:06,240 mouth taping as you, as you say. I know, I know. That's what you get for asking me that question. 250 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,680 I knew, I knew, but that's why I asked it. Because, you know, like I said, no one else will talk to 251 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:17,520 me about it. So, all right. So one of the things that you say, and it's not a direct quote, so, 252 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:27,120 but that respiration can also lead to restoration. And to me, especially as it relates to 253 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:33,840 children's every first mean, that's, that's it in a nutshell for me personally, right? If you can 254 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:41,440 breathe right, your health's going to improve. I just thought maybe we could talk a little bit 255 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:47,120 more about that and some of the things that you have found over the course of your research. So 256 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,000 I mean, you've seen some pretty dramatic changes, correct? 257 00:25:53,600 --> 00:26:01,280 I see them all the time. I get letters all the time, hundreds, thousands, thousands of them. 258 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:08,160 Now, I hear about this, all people find me and they corner me and they tell me about this stuff, 259 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:14,880 which is a bit ironic because I am only the messenger here. I cannot do any of this research. 260 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:21,680 And so, you know, I will try to refer them to the experts in the field and those experts may be 261 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:28,160 sick of getting all these emails from these people. But, you know, that's my role here. I'm a conduit 262 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:34,960 to where the research and the science is. So of course, I, you know, hear all these stories 263 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:41,440 all the time because they're so transformative. But one thing that all of these people have had in 264 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:47,920 common, every single one of them from my experience, is they're all really pissed off. They're extremely 265 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:56,320 angry that it took them finding a weird book to learn that their kid may have a breathing problem. 266 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:02,480 Maybe shouldn't be on a fistful of drugs that aren't doing any good for them, right? That maybe 267 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:07,120 sleep disorder, breathing is why their kid is still wetting their bed at the age of 12, 268 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:14,640 why they have such severe ADHD. And I'm pissed off for them because I'm not saying I'm not against 269 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:21,920 drugs. I think Western medicine is a beautiful thing. I would not be alive without it. I love it. 270 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,520 Pills and powders when you need them are the best thing in the world. Imagine dentistry without 271 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:35,760 anesthesia. No, thanks. I really like living in the modern world, but you can't diagnose someone 272 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:44,400 with several chronic issues without looking at their breathing. And one thing that I keep hearing 273 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:52,160 over and over again is that no one even asked their kids about their sleep quality, about their 274 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:58,720 breathing, about anything to do with their respiration. And I think that is borderline 275 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:07,840 criminal. It really is to have some kids suffer for 10 years without looking at the most simple, 276 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:14,560 basic principle behind so much of this, which is breathing. And if there's one thing I hope this 277 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:23,360 book does is bring attention to specifically sleep disorder breathing, which I see as a growing pandemic 278 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:30,400 of its own self. That's true. And kind of to that point, you've been, 279 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:38,000 in the whole, the year and a half you've been on our board, and just for that amount of time, 280 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:43,200 I know you've been traveling, you've been speaking in your, you're all over the place talking about 281 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:48,480 this and talking with people about this from when you started, you know, when you were doing your 282 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:55,760 research to now, are you seeing this kind of has this shift started, or is it still, 283 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,040 I guess, specifically within the medical community, are you starting to see the shift happen because, 284 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,560 you know, at least from the perspective where I'm sitting, parents are starting to get it and 285 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:12,080 parents are starting to ask questions. Well, I don't know if I'm the best person to answer that, 286 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:17,840 because I'm in this little bubble, right? I'm brought out to do these talks, I go on these tours, 287 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:23,760 and people are already clued into it because they're going to see me. Most of them have read the 288 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:31,440 book. So they, so they want to share their stories. So it's hard for me to look at the general gauge, 289 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,280 what's the temperature of this stuff, you know, throughout the country. I don't know. 290 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:42,000 I see from all the letters I get and all the people that tell me stuff that awareness seems to be 291 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:50,640 spreading, but I just have no idea. And, you know, it's not my job necessarily to spread this. 292 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:57,680 I've done what I could with the book, but I really think it's the family physician's job, 293 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,880 or the people looking at the kids or prescribing them, whatever drugs for their problems to be 294 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:09,840 a prize to this information. It just seems crazy that they're not. And so I don't know what it's 295 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:15,360 going to take for that to happen. Probably a bunch of lawsuits is what I think is what's going to 296 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:21,600 really push the dial, which is sad, but kind of true. But I think that that's really what needs to 297 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:28,000 happen. And as far as, you know, has this become global news? I don't think so. I think we've got 298 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:34,880 a long way to go, but you do see signs of this percolating in places. Maybe it wasn't percolating 299 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,000 before. 300 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:47,280 Right. Okay. And I'm not going to ask you to do reading demonstrations for us today. 301 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:54,960 Just for anybody that's listening that would like to see some of them, I'll find a couple of 302 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,600 other interviews that you've done that you've demonstrated that some people can get kind of a 303 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:08,400 sense of what you talk about in the book. You do list some examples. So at the end of every episode, 304 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:15,920 I like to turn it back over to the guest and just open the floor completely to you so that the 305 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:22,720 final thought is yours. Any message that you would like to leave with parents at this point? 306 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:31,840 Well, I think if parents are listening to this podcast, they're clued into the breathing health 307 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:39,360 of their kids. So there's not a lot that I can, I can tell them. I think that awareness is really 308 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:46,560 the most important thing just to become aware of it. Are all problems attributed to sleep disorder 309 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:53,360 breathing or breathing dysfunction? Of course not. No, they're not. But it's a pretty easy one to 310 00:31:53,360 --> 00:32:01,600 diagnose. And because it's so easy to diagnose, I think that that puts some more power in the hands 311 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:09,120 of parents. Like you can, there's so many wearables now that can provide pretty accurate data on 312 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:18,000 sleep apnea, on snoring, on other issues to do with sleep quality. That it's worthwhile if your 313 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:24,320 kid is having chronic issues or even if they're not, just look at their general breathing health. 314 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:31,040 You know, it's once you're a good breather early on in life that will tend to stay with you, but 315 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:37,360 you need that knowledge and awareness. I mean, my God, I wish I had known this stuff when I was 316 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:46,880 growing up. It would have made my life a lot easier, you know, but I didn't. And so you can't regret 317 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:55,760 the past, but what you can do is learn from our follies and sort of try to put all that knowledge 318 00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:02,160 together and build a better future. And I think that's what everyone's trying to do at this time. 319 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:08,080 And I think breathing is definitely breathing awareness is definitely a part of that. Awesome. 320 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:13,440 Well, I appreciate you being on today and speaking a little bit more about your book and 321 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,680 everything that you just covered. Thanks a lot for having me. 322 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,760 Thanks again to today's guest, James Nester, for sharing his insight and to each of you for 323 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,880 listening to today's episode. If you're new to our podcast, please don't forget to subscribe. 324 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,960 And if you enjoyed today's episode, leave us a review or comment telling us about what you 325 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:38,080 enjoyed most. You can stay connected with the Children's Airway First Foundation by following 326 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:44,480 us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Parents can also join us via our Facebook 327 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:50,960 Parent Support Group, the Airway Huddle, at facebook.com, backslash groups, backslash airway huddle. 328 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:59,200 Looking for more from Kath? Then check out our new YouTube channel. You can find a variety of 329 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:04,640 informative original video content there, as well as video recordings and excerpts from selected 330 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:10,800 Airway First podcast episodes. If you'd like to be a guest or have an idea for an upcoming episode, 331 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,640 shoot us a note via our contact page on our website or send us an email directly at infoat 332 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:22,960 childrensairwayfirst.org. And finally, thanks to all the parents and medical professionals out there 333 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,880 that are working to help make the lives of kids around the globe just a little bit better. 334 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:48,800 Take care, stay safe, and happy breathing, everyone.