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Hi everyone, and welcome back to Airway First, a podcast from the Children's Airway First

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Foundation.

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I'm your host, Rebecca St. James.

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My guest today is physical therapist Elizabeth Morel.

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Elizabeth has a master's in physical therapy from the University of Scranton and is the

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owner of Little Movers PT.

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Her background includes special education preschool-based PT services, outpatient pediatric services,

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and craniosacral therapy.

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You can find out more about Elizabeth at littlemovespt.com.

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And now, let's jump into my interview with today's guest, Elizabeth Morel.

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Hi, thank you so much for being here, Elizabeth.

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I really appreciate it.

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I'm happy to be here.

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Thank you for having me.

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Of course, of course.

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Okay, so let's jump in because one of the things that your website mentions is physical

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therapy for mom and baby.

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And I hadn't seen that before.

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So for our pregnant mommy listeners, let's talk about how does this work and what are

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the benefits both for mom and baby?

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So it's a little bit twofold.

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One is that I am specifically trained in a technique called low pressure fitness, which

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is a postural control technique that basically works from head to toe.

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That it is, the method is around really pelvic floor lifting.

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And it's very different than traditional pelvic floor therapy, meaning the breathing

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is very diaphragmatic, but actually using your diaphragm versus most people think diaphragmatic

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and then go to belly breathing.

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This is not.

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But again, it's all based on posture, breathing, poses.

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So you can start that during pregnancy and post.

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So I treat parents, moms, and I also perform craniosacral therapy.

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That's one of my manual techniques.

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So a mom typically wouldn't find me for craniosacral unless they knew me beforehand, unless they

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specifically heard that they need to seek it out for X, Y, and Z reason, right?

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Prefertility purposes for a traumatic birth before or whatever that that is the other

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hand.

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So I see families.

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I see whole families together.

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I had one, two, three, four and kids and a mom in my office all together about a week

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ago.

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And so, you know, we're all treated as kind of a family unit in craniosacral therapy,

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but then I also do this pelvic floor technique.

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And the really interesting thing about that is that it's postural control, right?

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And what starts your postural control system is that you're telling on the roof of your

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mouth that starts your postural control system.

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So my two worlds kind of collided there and almost accidentally because I got into that

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technique also kind of accidentally after I had already been working, you know, in pediatric

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surgery, which is my entire career.

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So it's really fun to meld the two together.

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And another funny note about treating moms is that all these moms come in with these

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tight pelvic floors and urinary incontinence or painful intercourse.

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And guess what?

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The floor of their mouth is the tightest part of their body and that's directly related

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to their pelvis.

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So by working in their mouth, I release the pelvis and it's like night and day right there.

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These ladies leave like, wait a minute.

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I don't know what just happened, but I'm already a new person.

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We haven't done anything yet, which is very funny and very cool.

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It's very cool.

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Yeah.

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Well, and you mentioned cranial sacral and I'll put a link for people because Dr. Stephen

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Hall, we've had him on before and he's talked a little bit about it.

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But let's talk about, you know, specifically two categories with babies, just, you know,

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what you can do with them.

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And then, all right, if you've missed the baby, how does cranial sacral work on an older

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child?

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So cranial sacral therapy can be done at any moment, at any day of any, you know, kind

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of point in the life.

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You can actually palpate rhythm, the rhythm, the cranial sacral rhythm, which is the CSF

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flow in utero from about that time of like 13, 14, 15 weeks in utero, which is, yeah,

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it's amazing.

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It's really cool.

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So you can actually differentiate like, oh, this is the mom's rhythm.

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And then there's this like tiny super fast rhythm inside.

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And you're like, oh, there's your baby found him, which is, it's super incredible.

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But you cranial sacral therapy is basically a tech manual technique that is used to release

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tension patterns, facial patterns that also hold trauma within the body.

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So it's kind of twofold.

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Some people use it just as a manual technique.

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If they're kind of early in their coursework, where you're just releasing those tension

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patterns, which make the ebb and flow a lot better.

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And then some people use it for the somato emotional release part of it, where fascia

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holds memories.

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So you're releasing those memories out of the tension pattern, which allows it to not

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come back.

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And that's like the bigger thing.

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So you know, what our teachers kind of have taught us over time is that you can actually

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release the trauma out of a person in one session, what they've been talking to their

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talk therapist about, you know, for years, because, you know, in talk therapy, you're

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working through it, you're working through it.

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But if the trauma is really actually held in the tissue, then you need to like manually

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release that out.

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And I've seen it done, you know, live in person to where, you know, someone is telling like,

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in this case, it was, you know, an abusive father, like, you can no longer control my

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life.

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But, and four days later, they were like, my life is completely changed.

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So it's, it's incredible.

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But what you're, you know, in craniosacral therapy, you can be working on the parents

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trauma on the baby and vice versa.

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So maybe you feel like you had infertility and you're feeling really guilty about it

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or you lost a child and that child is kind of still there in the memory and you're thinking

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of it and this next child takes on that, that mom stress.

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So you can work on the mom and you can work on the baby or you can work on them together

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and release kind of that trauma like babies holding really mom's trauma.

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And so you release those together or it could be something as simple as, hey, they're just

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stuck in utero.

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There is a pretty big kink in their, in their body and you have to physically like manually

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work that out as well.

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And so that trauma can manifest very much.

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So as like a physical restriction versus an emotional restriction.

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Okay.

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All right.

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I have several questions on this because I just, I just kind of opens up the gates and

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we were talking a little bit before we started recording that everything you do relates to

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airway.

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That's right.

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Because it all comes back to airway.

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So, you know, how does the craniosacral impact that?

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So, I mean, you can use the craniosacral therapy to actually ebb and flow the bones quite easily,

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especially on a young child.

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The palate is always impacted, right?

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When we are working with babies, especially babies who are stuck in utero, which is almost

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all of our babies at this point, right?

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There is some sort of in utero constraint happening.

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We just sit more, we work more, we're at our computers more, and that leads to less movement

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than we had a hundred years ago.

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So all of our babies kind of experience in utero constraint at some level.

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And so they come out a little bit more stuck.

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When you add things like tongue ties and vacuum bursts and all that stuff, it impacts it even

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more.

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But craniosacral therapy is really using bones as a handle to manipulate the body and have

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the flow around all of these be smooth and ebb and flow like flushing your toilet, right?

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You're always getting that clean water, clean water.

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You use craniosacral therapy in that way.

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So, physically, manually, you can widen the palate just with craniosacral therapy and

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you can take the bone that's above it, which is the vomer that's up and down, right?

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The vomer is often twisted, right?

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And that is going to have an impact on the succcellar breathe pattern.

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And that's going to have an impact on how wide that palate gets.

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And so very simply put, you're manipulating the hyoid, you're manipulating the palate,

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you're manipulating the vomer.

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And that has an obvious direct relationship with airway specifically.

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Yeah, but our partial control system, right, starting with the tongue being on the roof

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of the mouth is impacted from head to toe, which we all know tongue, neck, diaphragm,

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hips, the pelvic floor, enter thighs, calves, feet, right?

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That's our piece.

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So, the whole thing has to work in conjunction or else, you know, we fall apart at some level.

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So it all starts there.

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It all starts day one.

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It all starts 10 weeks in utero when that tongue is formed and you get what you get,

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right?

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And that's what we have and trying to make it as best as we can.

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And you mentioned vacuum and I've actually heard you speak to this before, but I want

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to talk in a little bit about that.

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What kind of impact can that have on a baby?

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I mean, the vacuum itself causes forces that pull upward.

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So it pulls on the membrane, which is called the tentorium.

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The tentorium is like a circus tent that is below the bones and the skull.

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So right beneath all these little tectonic plates, right, which are very loose in babies,

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there is a circus tent and that's your tentorium.

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And when you vacuum a baby out, you're kind of like taking that tentorium and kinking

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it.

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And, you know, you can compare that to like a sheet, right?

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If you, you can have your bed sheet and it gets like a little wrinkled and then it gets

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stuck in between and that can be kind of uncomfortable.

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Well those bones aren't going to lay flat on each other and ebb and flow as smooth when

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there's wrinkles in the sheets.

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So it pulls on the tentorium, which also can, you know, like you kick the brain a little

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bit and it pulls on everything else that's below.

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It really does also directly pull down through and then go to that vomer as well, which pulls

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on the palate.

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So specifically in babies with vacuum deliveries, we see a lot of pork of the palate itself.

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Wow.

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So as a mom, I mean, how do you, and I ask this because, you know, I had no idea and

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my oldest got stuck and so we had to use vacuum to get her out.

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How does, how do you even ask for that?

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How do you, you know, if you want cranial sacral done, can you do it in the hospital?

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Or is this something that you do with your baby afterwards or?

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So cranial psychotherapy is becoming much more widely used.

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It is, it is used in hospitals.

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It is not used in a lot of hospitals and there's not routine practice, but in California, yeah,

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I mean, one of my teachers, that was kind of her job was like implementing cranial

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psychotherapy into the hospital, into the, you know, mom and baby ward.

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So that basically every baby got treatment and just got like a fresh start, right?

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I mean, all babies are born with kinks.

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They're, they were stuck or their head was tilted or there's a utero constraint and so

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many, so many, so many babies and people have tongue ties.

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And so there's always going to be kinks in the system and it would be wonderful if every

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single baby was able to get an adjustment, just like chiropractors will say the same

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thing, right?

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You got to realign that nervous system and they would love for every baby to get a chiropractic

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adjustment at birth.

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They would love for every baby to get a cranial psychotherapy adjustment at birth.

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So some hospitals have it, but most don't and you would have to know that cranial

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psychotherapy exists and what are the benefits of cranial psychotherapy to go seek it out.

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It's more, it's more recommended when there is a difficulty, difficulty latching, difficulty

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with tension in the jaw.

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A lot of these babies have these really tight shallow latches that could be from other things

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like tongue ties or low tone or the like small airway, right?

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Luring Malaysia causing these like sex swallow patterns being off, but it could also just

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be that the baby was so stinking stuck in utero that they need their postural control

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systems all sideways.

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There's a crooked, right?

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So we just need to kind of realign them and give them a little bit of a fresh start and

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a good go.

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And you know, I'm not one to say that tongue ties don't exist or it's like a mild tongue

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tie.

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No, I think like anyone who has a tight short phrenulum that causes so many compensatory

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patterns in the long run that we should be treating that, but there's an occasion where

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it could look like this baby is tongue tied.

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But in fact, that tension pattern that goes like head to toe is just so tight because

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of the way that they sat or the way that they were born or maybe the cord was wrapped

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around their neck, which like jacked up the highway bone.

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So there are some cases that a baby hits checks all the boxes of having a tongue tie, but

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when you do the physical oral examination, you're like, something else is going on here,

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right?

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And those or those, you know, those check those boxes that you check or the mom comes

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to you and she says, Oh, I have intense nipple pain and my baby's mouth that's open and their

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tongue is white and they're crying all the time and they're super gassy.

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They're like, Oh, my God, this baby's a tongue tie.

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This baby's a tongue tie.

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Ding, ding, ding.

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I know what I'm going to find.

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And you go inside and you're like, Oh, wait a minute.

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Okay.

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And these are all just, you know, myofascial and kind of kinks in the partial control

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system that are causing those issues.

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But I would say it's more rare for that to happen.

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These like quote unquote, pho ties.

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Okay.

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And you just touched on it there too.

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I've heard you explain things like super gassy baby or or collicky.

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You know, and again, I go back to my experience, you know, I had, I had a collicky child.

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It didn't last real well.

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And I was told by my pediatrician again, they didn't know what they didn't know.

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So let's just say that.

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I thought my pediatrician was amazing, but I was told it was just a latching issue and

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I need to learn how to latch and everything was fine.

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Well, you know, come to find out later and now she's older and we had to step in and say,

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no, we're not doing retractive braces, expand her because we know now what's going on.

241
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So you know, as a mom, when you come in and they're super gassy or they're collicking,

242
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,040
I heard you mentioned that when you see these things look deeper.

243
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A hundred percent.

244
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,960
Like how do you explain that to your pediatrician?

245
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That's, that's the hard part, right?

246
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,520
I mean, again, they don't know what they don't know.

247
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:29,600
However, they are invited to sit in all of the same symposiums that we go to.

248
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We have lactation consultants, doctors, dentists, ENTs, area professionals, OMTs, RDH, like

249
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:37,840
everybody.

250
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,800
We all sit in the same dang symposiums and if they, they are invited and they are more

251
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:49,040
than welcome to come and learn and join and be part of it and most choose not to.

252
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:54,760
So I think the bigger part is just to get like a simple like broad based knowledge that

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hey, when your baby is colicky, that there's usually some gas pain, there's usually some

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00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,960
tension and there's some poor or a function that's causing this.

255
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,800
You don't have to know why I eat.

256
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,360
You don't, you just have to know that you need to refer them out, like refer them to

257
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:14,200
lactation, refer them to therapy and, and let them, you know, make their professional

258
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:25,120
opinion, but we are still very, very, very much so fighting that battle of the opposing

259
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,120
opinion.

260
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,600
Oh yeah, go to physical therapy, see what they say and then I come in here and I'm like,

261
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,200
oh, well, this side is tighter and this side is weaker and you know, it does appear that

262
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:40,080
they have tethered oral tissues and this is why and here's, you can tell that the airway

263
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,160
is compromised and do you hear that sound?

264
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,400
It's called strider and like all these things and they go back to the pediatrician and they'll

265
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:50,240
just say like, oh, well, your therapist, therapist is full of it.

266
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,640
And so it's definitely an uphill battle, but it's not one that I'm not willing to fight

267
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,960
because the, this research studies are there, right?

268
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:03,480
At this point, there is so much evidence to back it up that I don't even care.

269
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,040
Like you can say that to my face and I can just say, okay, well, here's 10 studies.

270
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,400
So if you still don't want to believe it, then that's on you, but you know, we're not

271
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,320
at the point anymore where we're just coming out with anecdotal evidence.

272
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,600
Oh, the last five babies that I treated did well.

273
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:18,960
So this one must do well too.

274
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,880
Now there's research to back up all aspects of it.

275
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:28,000
I mean, I wish there was a little more research to back up the whole body, right?

276
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:34,640
Like what I see with toddlers, how these kids who are super tied and super tight in the

277
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:41,360
mouth to walk like, oh my God, I would die for that stuff to come out and be real aware

278
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:45,560
of a real double blind study because that would be such an aha moment for our field.

279
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,320
But I don't foresee that happening in the future.

280
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:54,200
And I, I'm not one to like dive in to do the research studies myself.

281
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,280
So someone would have to help me out with that.

282
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,520
Well, you know, and Dr. Liao has found some of that too.

283
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,080
He was on, I don't know, a month or so ago and that was the first time I had ever seen

284
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:06,080
it.

285
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:12,200
And he had some examples where one toe was turned in and, you know, did the work made

286
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,120
and it just released everything and the posture came up, the toes came out.

287
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:18,120
That's right.

288
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,520
I mean, it's, it's all night and day.

289
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:21,720
It's night and day.

290
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:28,560
I just said to a client the other day yesterday, I don't know, the other day, it was this morning

291
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,440
actually, it was this morning.

292
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:35,920
And they said, you know, okay, so what happens if we choose not to get a frenectomy?

293
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,880
And I said, you know, the body will compensate in whatever way that it possibly can.

294
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,640
So whatever that means for that baby, that, that could be that the child has difficulty

295
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:46,640
with speech.

296
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,000
That could be the child has difficulty with eating, chewing solid food.

297
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,720
That could be that the, the child comes out with airway difficulties in life or TMJ dysfunction

298
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,680
or migrants or whatever.

299
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:03,320
Like we don't, we don't know we're going to get, but the body is going to compensate.

300
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,200
And the one, yeah.

301
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,960
The one thing was that the baby was super turned to the side.

302
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,800
And I said, I'll tell you one thing.

303
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:16,200
Like I know as soon as this baby, if, if they do perform a frenectomy, you're not going

304
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,560
to have to fight to do all these other exercises.

305
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:24,880
Every single baby that I treat that I get pre-op, which is the, the best thing in the

306
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:25,880
world.

307
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:35,120
I always, we need pre-op therapy is that they never, like they just, as soon as they get

308
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:40,600
that frenectomy at that time, it goes like, and then you're like, Oh, okay, they're straight.

309
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:41,600
Let's go.

310
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:42,600
Let's move on now.

311
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:43,600
Yeah.

312
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,560
You just have to strengthen what they have at that point, you know, they, they, they

313
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,320
don't comb super strong because even when they are, um, when you're working with them

314
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,000
pre-frenectomy, they're not going to be as strong as they're going to be after because

315
00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,480
they're still tied down, right?

316
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,240
You're fighting against the compensator patterns that they've already made, especially because

317
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,360
the tongue is, you know, formed at 10 weeks in a year or by 20 weeks, they're, they're

318
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:07,360
stuck, swell breathing.

319
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:11,520
So they have these patterns that they thought were correct this whole time.

320
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,640
And now we have to fight them.

321
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,960
But once it's free, that's when you actually see the true weakness.

322
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,640
They don't have the, the, that anchoring to help them stabilize, right?

323
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,040
To help them stabilize a job, help them stabilize a feed.

324
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,760
And now this tongue is just like, Oh, wet noodle.

325
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:29,760
Somebody help me.

326
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:30,760
So you really have to start.

327
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:31,760
You have to work with that.

328
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:32,760
Start over.

329
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:33,960
And then why do you want them pre-op?

330
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,040
What's the benefit if you can get ahold of them?

331
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,720
Oh my God, it's, it's literally the best.

332
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,080
So when you start to unwind some of these tension patterns that they have, right?

333
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,440
So that immutable constraint where they are turned to one side and one hip is usually

334
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:48,680
hiked, that just happens, right?

335
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,520
A baby has to fit inside the belly.

336
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:56,960
So, you know, if you sit away, head down, but on your left feet kicking you in those

337
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,300
right ribs, then the pattern is typically that they're going to come out a little shrimpy

338
00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:03,300
on the left.

339
00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:06,920
So like left ear to left shoulder, left hip hiked up and then vice versa on the other

340
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,640
side.

341
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,560
So you're going to start working on those patterns.

342
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,040
And then you're going to, which is going to release some of the tension in the floor

343
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,040
of the mouth.

344
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:17,920
Remember the floor of the mouth is directly connected to the neck.

345
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,880
Like those are the start of the neck muscles there.

346
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:25,840
So you want to work on them in tandem and you want to start that first because if, when

347
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:31,840
you get a frenectomy and you're still tight, that side of the floor of the mouth is going

348
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,680
to pull down on that diamond tighter than the other side is.

349
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,640
Whereas if you had already started loosening that tension pattern, that diamond has that

350
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,000
a less of a tendency to pull more on that one side, right?

351
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,160
Stay more in alignment.

352
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,160
Right.

353
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,720
So you're staying more in alignment.

354
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:55,040
It also starts to differentiate the frenulum from the floor of the mouth because in these

355
00:21:55,040 --> 00:22:00,080
babies, they're just so shoulder to ear, so tight that everything below the tongue just

356
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,240
looks like a sea of pink.

357
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,320
How deep does the dentist or the ENT go?

358
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:05,320
Well, I don't know.

359
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,160
They're just going to like do their best, use their little silver tool and go for it.

360
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:14,440
But when you start working on it and you start separating and you do, you know, tongue resting,

361
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,720
hold posture and separating those away and try to start to create these tunnels.

362
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,800
When you create these tunnels and you turn to the side, you're going to see exactly how

363
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:26,800
deep the fascia is, how thick it is, and then where the, those muscles start.

364
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,240
So you're really separating those out.

365
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,000
And you say like, ah, it's actually way deeper than I thought it was going to be.

366
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:39,160
And you give that doctor a way better view, vantage and chance of performing a complete

367
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,160
frenectomy.

368
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,920
Sometimes the babies are just so tight and their ears are literally like in, shoulders

369
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,640
are literally like in their baby's mouth at that point that it's hard to get that deep,

370
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:55,360
you know, deep full release when needed because you, they can't, you know, differentiate just

371
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:57,520
because the baby, the baby's still so tight.

372
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:58,520
Right.

373
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:08,200
Um, and then, you know, in terms of, of wound care as well, you want the baby to be used

374
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,200
to you being in their mouth, right?

375
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,880
You're going to, you know, unwind, you know, work on massage and work on those cranial

376
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,200
nerves and get that cranial nerve to function to be a lot better.

377
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,720
Glassel for a G on hypoglossal that move the tongue and the throat and like, we want

378
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,720
all these things better.

379
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,280
The eyes need to converge a sense of smell, the facial nerve.

380
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,800
Like these things have to all work in tandem.

381
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,560
So when you're working on them prior, then you release it.

382
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:34,560
Yeah.

383
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,520
That, well, like I just said, the tongue, you see how weak it really is, but at least

384
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,560
they don't have to fight the weakness of the tongue with the pinch of nerves with, you

385
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,280
know, the next tide altogether.

386
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:50,320
Like let's weed some of this stuff out so that they can kind of focus on just strengthening

387
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,400
the mouth as well.

388
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,440
So so many different things like their sensory system.

389
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,440
You don't want them to get this oral inversion that they could possibly get because you've

390
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,280
never been in their mouth and all of a sudden they have all this pain, right?

391
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,360
They're used to you being in there.

392
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:03,600
They're used to lateralization.

393
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,160
They know what phasic bite is.

394
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,760
They know that you're not hurting them when you go in there and you're making it fun and

395
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:09,840
playful.

396
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:15,280
And so that two seconds at the end, when you do a little stretch, you know, they're, they're

397
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,120
going to be okay with it versus.

398
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:19,000
I've never been in here before.

399
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,000
Yeah.

400
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,000
I've never been here before.

401
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:26,640
And so this pain I associate you coming at me, especially upside down with pain, like

402
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,480
no, let's get the baby used to it.

403
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,520
You, you used to doing that stretch as well so that you know what the heck you're doing.

404
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:34,920
So you're not fumbling through it.

405
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:42,360
So I mean, so many, so many, so many reasons why pre for anectomy care is necessary.

406
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:48,040
And the older the baby is, the more patterns that they've developed, the more, the more

407
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,920
things you kind of want to unwind before getting them ready, especially if this child has low

408
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,040
tone, which a lot of children do.

409
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,920
And you know, tone is tone is tone, tone is neurological.

410
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,240
You get what you get in that regard.

411
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:09,720
And so if the child has this widely open mouth posture with the tongue resting down and we're

412
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,640
not working extra hard to make those lips work, to make the cheeks work, to get that

413
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,280
tongue lifted and you perform a for anectomy, the tongue is still going to be like a floppy

414
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,680
little fish at the, at the floor of the mouth.

415
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:27,440
And you're not going to see those same drastic results within that week or two after you're

416
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:28,880
going to be like, Oh, I did nothing.

417
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:35,440
Oh, this, you know, and that's how we get the whole this business is a scam situation.

418
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,120
It's because no, there are too many layers going on here and they need to have been addressed

419
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:44,960
first, that baby that has lower muscle tone needs more pre-op work than the baby who was

420
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:50,760
just tight or the baby that had a head turning preference or, you know, the baby that was

421
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,280
kind of stuck in that fight or flight state, right?

422
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,400
Everybody's got their own thing.

423
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,640
Or you could be the packaged baby and you can have all of it.

424
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:58,640
You can have a ton.

425
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,640
You could be stuck in fight or flight.

426
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,200
You can be super tight, stuck in utero.

427
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:07,920
You could have had the cord raptor on your neck and a vacuum delivery and you arrive and

428
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,280
you're like, here, my baby is a hot mess.

429
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,760
Let's cut their tongue open.

430
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,760
Like, no, they're the ones that need tender loving care.

431
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:16,760
Nice.

432
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,760
A couple of good sessions.

433
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:19,760
Yeah.

434
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:25,280
To get them, you know, back to a state of neutral before we come at them with a laser

435
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,280
or a scissor.

436
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,280
Right.

437
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:47,160
You're listening to Airway First with today's guest, Elizabeth Morel.

438
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,960
You can find out more about the Children's Airway First Foundation and our mission to

439
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:56,800
fix before six on our website at children'sairwayfirst.org.

440
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,960
The CAF website offers tons of great resources for parents in medical professionals, including

441
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:09,720
videos, blogs, recommended reading lists, comprehensive medical research, podcasts, and so much more.

442
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,000
Parents are encouraged to join the Airway Huddle, our Facebook support group, which was created

443
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,600
for parents of children with airway and sleep-related issues.

444
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:25,920
You can access the Airway Huddle support group at facebook.com backslashgroups backslashairwayhuddle.

445
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,360
Are you a medical professional or parent that's interested in being a guest on our show, or

446
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:33,280
do you have an idea for an upcoming episode?

447
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:38,240
Shoot us a note via the contacts page on our website, or send us an email directly at info

448
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,080
at childrensairwayfirst.org.

449
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,440
As a reminder, this podcast and the opinions expressed here are not a medical diagnosis.

450
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,160
If you suspect your child might have an airway issue, contact your pediatric airway dentist

451
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,280
or pediatrician.

452
00:27:54,280 --> 00:28:01,280
And now let's jump back into my interview with today's guest, Elizabeth Morrell.

453
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:06,280
Elizabeth Morrell

454
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:14,080
All right, so chin growth.

455
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,080
You talk a lot about this on Instagram, and I will put a link to everything in the show

456
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,880
note so that moms can check you out.

457
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:29,160
One of the things you talk about is proper chin growth and to watch for it.

458
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,280
So what exactly are we looking for as moms?

459
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:33,280
Elizabeth Morrell

460
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:42,840
I mean, so specifically with either, okay, wolf's law is muscle pulls on bone and grows

461
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:43,840
bone, right?

462
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:44,840
Like that.

463
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:52,840
So they need a force to pull on the bone to physically make it larger and babies who

464
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:58,480
who either have very low muscle tone or where their tongue is tied down, they don't get

465
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,400
a lot of that the correct muscle stimulation.

466
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,920
And so their jaws are smaller.

467
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,520
And additionally, in utero, the head grows like back to front, like kind of over the

468
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:11,520
top.

469
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,880
And the tongue is super tied and it's held down in utero.

470
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,360
The head keeps growing and growing and the chin is kind of held back by that by that

471
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,360
tie.

472
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:21,360
Okay.

473
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,880
And so the chin isn't growing as forward as fast because it's it's being held down.

474
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:27,880
Yeah.

475
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:28,880
Yeah.

476
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,360
And so babies do typically come out with these small or very recessed, even if they're

477
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,000
the right size, but they're just held back from the tie.

478
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,000
So they're very recessed jaws.

479
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,440
And so we want to start, you know, right from day one, again, muscle pulls on bone and grows

480
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:43,440
bone.

481
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,000
So you want to stimulate those muscles.

482
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,760
Easiest way to do it is through phasic bite, which is when you put your finger on their

483
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:54,000
back molar, there is a biting reflex that happens where they chew.

484
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,120
And so what, what's better than chewing?

485
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:58,120
Nothing is better than chewing.

486
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:06,120
It is the same from day one of birth to getting an OMTE val at, you know, seven years old,

487
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:12,840
they're going to check how strong the jaws are and, and how, you know, how well the child

488
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,720
chews and holds and whatever.

489
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:22,400
So when you chew, you physically grow the masseter, the medial lateral pteragoid, you're

490
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:27,440
going to, you're going to grow all these stabilizing structures of the TMJ and those muscles pull

491
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,240
on bone and grow bone and the bigger the jaw and the more forward the jaw, the bigger

492
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,520
the airway.

493
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:41,840
And these, these are the things that start day one and continue lifelong and that get

494
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,080
overlooked a lot, right?

495
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,600
And especially in orthodontics, like, Oh yeah, we'll just pull that jaw forward.

496
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:47,600
Okay.

497
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,720
Well, I mean, it was there for a reason.

498
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,880
It was probably also stabilizing their airway.

499
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:58,840
So let's make sure that we have all the pieces together, but it is those tiny recessed jaws

500
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:04,000
are directly impacting the size and the space of the airway.

501
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:11,720
So it's one of the biggest things and easiest things to treat to like stick your finger

502
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:12,720
in there.

503
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:13,720
That's it.

504
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:14,720
It's so easy.

505
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:20,440
If you, if you don't do it now and your child has a, is a picky eater or has feeding difficulty

506
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,000
at two years old, there's a first thing that the, the therapist is going to do is go back

507
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,680
there and say, Oh, we got to start chewing.

508
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,400
Like let's get those teethers in there.

509
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,280
Let's get straws or let's get, you know, food back there.

510
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,160
And so it's either you're going to do it now and you're going to start for forever or you're,

511
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,160
you're going to wait.

512
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,960
But you're going to still have to fix it regardless.

513
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:41,960
Exactly.

514
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,560
And when you talk about going into the palette, one of the things I've heard you say is you

515
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,680
check them when they're sleeping.

516
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:53,480
So I just always check where the tongue is resting on their palate when they're sleeping.

517
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,560
So ideally lips, clothes, you know, jaws are slightly apart and the tongue is resting on

518
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,080
their palate.

519
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,600
And first you got to look out what's happening.

520
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,240
The baby falls asleep or the child falls asleep.

521
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:07,240
What are they doing?

522
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:08,240
You know, is their mouth open?

523
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:09,240
Is their mouth closed?

524
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,240
Is their head pulled back?

525
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,240
Right?

526
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,240
Are they, are they searching for an airway?

527
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,240
Are they snoring?

528
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,240
Are they snoring?

529
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:15,240
Yeah.

530
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,400
Is it turned all the way to one side?

531
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,400
Do they look like the exorcist?

532
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,640
I mean, that's very, very common.

533
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,960
Their head is like sideways all the way back.

534
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,200
Their body is in a shrimp but reverse, right?

535
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,560
Their belly button's like touching the sky.

536
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,240
That's just a baby who's trying to breathe, right?

537
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,440
Trying to get oxygen to the brain.

538
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,320
And so you want to look at the positioning and the head positioning just as much as you

539
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,240
want to look at where the tongue is.

540
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:47,080
But ideally if their mouth is closed, you still have to kind of go in there and lower

541
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,080
that chin a little bit and see where the tongue is in the mouth.

542
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:56,160
And where the tongue is in the mouth matters just as much as whether it was up or down,

543
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:02,440
meaning the tongue might be sort of up, like quote unquote up, but the tip of the tongue

544
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,680
might be sitting in the middle of the palate directly straight up like vertical, right?

545
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:13,240
Or you might pull that chin down and you notice that just the tip of the tongue is touching

546
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,240
the roof of the mouth.

547
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:19,000
But in order to fully open our airway, we need the entire tongue from tip to back to

548
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,400
be resting on the palate, resting on the roof of the mouth, tip to back.

549
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,640
That whole thing, that's what gives us max oxygen to the brain, which means deep restful

550
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,680
sleep, which means everything.

551
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,320
Right, healthier all around.

552
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,680
Healthier every, like every single system is affected by getting the most amount of

553
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,640
oxygen to the brain and the deepest restful sleep that we can do.

554
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,760
And that's the whole, that is literally the whole point, right?

555
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,920
Because you can start from now from day one of life fixing it.

556
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,280
We can't fix anything in your door.

557
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,600
We can start from day one of life getting that tongue to the roof of the mouth, which

558
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,960
is going to shape the palate for the next three to five years of life.

559
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,440
And that's going to affect, you know, how much that brain grows.

560
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:12,800
Brain growth is what, 75% from zero to three years old and 95% by zero to five years old.

561
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,320
So you're directly impacting it.

562
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,640
Like if you work on this, you will directly make the brain grow.

563
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,040
If you don't work on it, not that, you know, that's said to make people feel bad, but you

564
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,200
don't know what you don't know as well.

565
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:34,040
But if you know that, Hey, this impacts brain growth, then yeah, let's go for it.

566
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:40,920
We need the best sleep that we can, you know, for example, my children were two and a half

567
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:46,680
and four and a half when I got them their first airway done to eval, you know, and they

568
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:52,800
took them to Lenny Cundell in Stanford and he, you know, does treat super young and

569
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,840
he's like, okay, so you've already done the tongue tie release.

570
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,000
Like you've been working on them since, since they're born.

571
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,840
Why do you think that they need an ounce, you know, your son's two and a half years

572
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:03,840
old.

573
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:10,480
And I was like, because the brain grows 75% of the way by zero to three and 95% by zero

574
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:11,480
to five.

575
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,360
So I got to give them, you know, the best chance I can.

576
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:14,880
And he was like, okay, good point.

577
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:15,880
Let's, let's go.

578
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:16,880
You know, let's look.

579
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:17,880
Yeah.

580
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:23,160
And they did, I mean, both of my children, there is definitely a limitation to how much

581
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,000
you can physically manipulate the, the growth of the palate, right?

582
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,960
My son has super low muscle tone, clinically diagnosed.

583
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,080
So even though his tongue would be up, it wasn't creating like a suction seal that was

584
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,000
really widening his palate enough.

585
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,920
And I knew that and he had the smallest little mouth and the smallest little chin and he's

586
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,080
had that since that 20 weeks scan.

587
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,080
Right.

588
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,080
I look up at the screen and I was like, Oh God, like, this is a small chin.

589
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,080
Yeah.

590
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,560
I was like, Oh, we're in trouble.

591
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:57,000
I didn't know that it was going to have super low tone, but, uh, you know, we had to mechanically

592
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,000
widen that palate.

593
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:03,000
And the great thing about alphas of palate expander is that, you know, it does work

594
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,120
hand in hand with craniolecyclerotherapy because it allows the bones to move.

595
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,920
And that's the biggest thing.

596
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,600
You know, a lot of palate expanders kind of grab too hard.

597
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,080
And so they kind of stop that ebb and flow and we want that constant ebb and flow and

598
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,080
that movement.

599
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,040
And so, um, I was like, yeah, let's, let's go.

600
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,360
We got to artificially do it.

601
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:23,920
I want him to sleep better.

602
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,280
And yeah, he got his mouth closed.

603
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,600
He got his tongue to the roof of his mouth a lot easier than my daughter did.

604
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:36,200
Um, her, she was four and a half and she was my rolly-poly kicking, screaming in the night,

605
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:42,520
night terror kind of kid where she would sleep many hours, but it was a, the extreme

606
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,040
only restless sleeper.

607
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:50,480
Um, and at her age, once she got her palate expander at four and a half, within the first

608
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,040
week, she was a different child.

609
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:57,600
She was actually like still, literally within the first week, she was a different child.

610
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:58,840
It was pretty crazy.

611
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,200
Again, you still have to go back and work on the oral motor skills, right?

612
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,920
They still have my own and they still need to do it and they still need to do the rubber

613
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,080
bands and all that stuff.

614
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:13,760
And it's a constant, constant work, but the mechanical expansion for them was a million

615
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,720
percent the way to go to really get oxygen.

616
00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:20,320
Like that's all I think is deep, breast, will say deep, breast, will say deep, breast,

617
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,000
will say like, I don't want the anxiety.

618
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,000
I don't want the depression.

619
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,480
I don't want the ADHD, like symptoms, negative dysfunction.

620
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,680
Um, and you can't win them all either.

621
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:35,720
Like we're still working on a lot of those things, even though their airway are basically

622
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:43,520
as good as we can, which is also a reminder that our environment and epigenetics, our

623
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,280
environment extremely impacts those other parts of it, right?

624
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,760
It's not just about airway.

625
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:56,240
It is about the foods you eat and your genes and, um, you know, like going to like, you

626
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:59,600
know, Ben Lynch's dirty jeans book, like all that kind of stuff, right?

627
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:05,600
That all very much impacts that your gut health, all of these things impact those other

628
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:10,280
behavior, those ADHD, like behaviors or, you know, executive functioning, all those things

629
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:11,280
that goes hand in hand.

630
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,960
It's not just about airway.

631
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,720
Um, and, you know, for better or for worse, they're my teachers too.

632
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:23,880
Cause every year that goes by, I learned something new about how epigenetics has influenced them,

633
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,920
how I have influenced them.

634
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,400
I just learned today, I just got my own test result back today and found out that I have

635
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:37,320
something that I have, you know, probably, um, passed on to my kids and I was like, oh

636
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,760
Jesus, like you just can't win.

637
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,160
Honestly, you just can't.

638
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:48,400
But the more you know, um, knowledge is power and it's great because we can treat it and

639
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,680
we can kind of move forward.

640
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:55,440
But, uh, yes, I'm here to be the airway advocate and the tongue tie advocate and let's get

641
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:56,640
the tongue to the roof of the mouth.

642
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,320
Let's get this special control system moving and all that kind of stuff.

643
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,800
But there is definitely a time and a place for, to work on those environmental factors

644
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:04,800
as well.

645
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,560
Cause it's again, all that's connected.

646
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:07,560
It's all connected.

647
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:08,560
Right.

648
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:13,200
And one of the things you said that I just want to make sure that people heard, um, when

649
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:20,240
you went to Stanford and you met with the airway subject in test, you actually had to,

650
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:23,200
or at least you said, this is why I want it.

651
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,880
And you advocated for your kids and we're always saying, Hey moms, trust your gut, advocate.

652
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:29,880
Yeah.

653
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,760
I mean, he was kind of like, what are the things that have you done so far?

654
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,440
Like, okay, you've kind of done them all.

655
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,400
And I was like, yeah, but here's where's the butt?

656
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,520
Like, oh, he still has chapped lips.

657
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,040
You know, he still has bags under his eyes, which is Venus pooling.

658
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,880
That's likely airway related.

659
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:52,840
Um, ye, there's still the low tone there that we can't just undo, right?

660
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,440
Strength is different than tone.

661
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,640
And she's an extremely restless sleeper.

662
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,640
He has a massive night terrors.

663
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,640
Um, she is perpetually stuck in that fighter flight state.

664
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,800
So that's why I want this.

665
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,880
And you know, of course I had to advocate for myself.

666
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,160
He didn't, he didn't fight me over it at all.

667
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:19,560
You know, my story begins with being a pediatric physical therapist working with babies and

668
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,280
having to advocate for myself for my daughter's tongue time.

669
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:24,480
I mean, nobody believed me.

670
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,680
And I was only in 2015, but nobody believed me there.

671
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:32,240
Like, oh, it's just, she's just gassy and she's just bloated and maybe you have a dairy intolerance

672
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:33,240
and this and that.

673
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:37,000
I'm like, I know what anatomy is and this is not anatomy and my nipple shouldn't be

674
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,880
bleeding, you know, I'm on things wrong.

675
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:41,880
And I think she has a tie.

676
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,040
I have to have four lactation consultants, two specialists.

677
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,600
I had everyone, right?

678
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:54,760
So I even working in this field and I was just a baby physical therapist at that time,

679
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,120
just a baby physical therapist at time.

680
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,440
I really had to push extremely hard for that diagnosis.

681
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:09,480
I had to push extremely hard, you know, not as hard to, you know, get their politics

682
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:14,000
benders, but I, I've definitely had to push extremely hard to get their genes tested and

683
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,200
to get their blood test results and to find out what's the other missing piece in this

684
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,240
other factor, the environmental factors.

685
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,760
I literally, I just went through this last year.

686
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:29,720
I had, you know, four or five doctors, basically, Pukumi that like, I'm a crazy person.

687
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:31,560
Nope, not crazy in the end.

688
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:36,840
I found the right one and I know exactly what's going on, but really, really, really

689
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:43,160
have to advocate for ourselves, but also be willing to like be a little uncomfortable

690
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:48,840
and learn about things that you don't want to learn about, you know, learn about, learn

691
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,680
about Lyme and co-infections and how, how your genes can be affected and things you

692
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:58,440
can pass on or mold in school or moldy houses.

693
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:04,920
Like those are uncomfortable subjects that are all like addressed in, you know, say that

694
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,440
those dirty genes books, right?

695
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,200
Those are the kinds of books that you would want to look at.

696
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:15,440
And we definitely don't, you know, there's this tie to the MTHFR that's like, this is

697
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,880
like the all mysterious thing, right?

698
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,880
Because we haven't proven it, right?

699
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,880
It hasn't come out as our double one research study, though I've heard there is possibility

700
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,680
that it has in Germany and it's kind of being blacklisted about, I don't think like, I really

701
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:36,000
don't know that like, you know, is MTHFR the cause of these midline disorders and is this

702
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,520
the cause of these children not being able to detox well and is this the cause that these

703
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,640
kids are also the kids who have difficulty with vaccines and all that?

704
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:51,520
Like, oh, if that research comes out, that's going to really change people's perspectives

705
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:56,520
on, on looking more into those environmental factors because they are going to go hand

706
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:57,520
in hand.

707
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,920
But again, until we really have that definitive research, it's all just speculation and you

708
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,720
can't just live your life on speculation.

709
00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:05,120
I mean, me, I'm a crazy person.

710
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:10,120
I definitely live my life on speculation and definitely read piece by piece, but I don't

711
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:15,440
expect a regular mom to start reading random books and being like, oh, it's possible that

712
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,960
my child was affected by the pesticides of blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, like, that's

713
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,560
that's all it's all kind of crazy talk.

714
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:27,600
So I can't wait for all of those genetic mutations to kind of come to light of which

715
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,960
are the exact ones that have caused these issues and what else do they cause when they

716
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:39,800
do because that's really going to be a dramatic realization and page turner for, for all of

717
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:40,800
us, right?

718
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,360
For the providers and the parents to say, okay.

719
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:46,520
And now what do I do?

720
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:47,520
Yeah.

721
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:48,520
Yeah.

722
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,760
And now, and also, you know, if that is your first child and you're learning about it,

723
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:58,240
well, is there something that it can do also to prevent this from happening or to try to

724
00:43:58,240 --> 00:43:59,520
prevent this from happening?

725
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:00,840
And your second or third.

726
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:01,840
Yeah.

727
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:02,840
Absolutely.

728
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:03,840
Absolutely.

729
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,160
On your website and I will put a link to that in the show notes.

730
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:12,080
You have a course called baby's bellies and bubbles, which is super cute.

731
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,080
Fun to say anyway.

732
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:19,440
And if I understand it's an online at home course, it's for optimizing infant physical

733
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,680
development and feeding.

734
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:22,680
That's right.

735
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,240
Kind of a mouthful to say.

736
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:28,560
So how does this help moms, but especially around feeding?

737
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:37,360
So basically, these are the most simple exercises that I've kind of put together throughout my

738
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:44,800
career as a baby physical therapist since 2008 that do all kind of go that head to toe,

739
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,720
telling neck diaphragm, hips to pelvic floor, and your thighs, calf's feet, right?

740
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:53,720
We're going to address all of those things in a way that is really easy to digest, regular

741
00:44:53,720 --> 00:45:02,120
movements that every parent should learn and be doing with every baby.

742
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:11,080
So there's not necessarily a reason not to be doing these with your child, right?

743
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:15,400
Because it's about unwinding, unpinching those cranial nerves, like every baby's cranial

744
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:16,400
nerves are pinched.

745
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,440
And those are the nerves that control your eyes, which need to converge to drink in the

746
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:25,080
sense of smell that you need to smell it and then the movement of the tongue and the affect

747
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,120
of the face and the swallowing, like all these babies need to eat, right?

748
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:34,880
And all these babies' nerves are pinched in uterus, so let's work them out.

749
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,440
How what is tummy time?

750
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,760
What's tummy time really supposed to look like, right?

751
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:45,600
And are we supposed to just leave them there to cry, no pain, no gain?

752
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:51,160
I mean, that's 100% the opposite of what we're trying to accomplish here.

753
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,920
Your vagus nerve, which is in your palate, your diaphragm and your gut.

754
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,640
It's like hitting lucky sevens when you're on your tummy and that nerve is the nerve

755
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,480
that controls your person, but then it's nervous and that takes you out of fight or flight.

756
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,480
So if we're putting our babies in tummy time and they're freaking out, you're kind of doing

757
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:12,040
the opposite of what it's supposed to do, yeah, which is strengthen them, strengthen

758
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,600
their vagus nerve.

759
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:18,440
And realistically, the nervous system becomes before any of these things.

760
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:23,040
So the calmer the nervous system is, the more put together the nervous system is, the more

761
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,800
that their brain can then make those connections to do those regular gross motor, fine motor

762
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,640
things, oral motor things, right?

763
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,240
Which makes sense.

764
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:35,640
It's all about like you need to control the nervous system first.

765
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:40,320
So at any point, your baby's freaking out during any of these exercises, you know, pick

766
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:45,360
them up, walk them around, calm them down, abort the mission, come back later or change

767
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:46,520
it up.

768
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,440
There's no reason for your baby to be upset in any of them.

769
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:56,040
But you know, we don't, I live in Northern New Jersey, which is like the Mecca right

770
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,560
by New York City of we have such a dense population of providers.

771
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:05,440
You can like spit and hit an OMT or an airway dentist.

772
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:11,960
And I understand that people don't have that, you know, if you live in Oklahoma, there's

773
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:17,520
probably one person, it's a chiropractor and you know, you get what you get, right?

774
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:23,920
Yeah, they're great for body work and renalyne the nervous system and they might be allowed

775
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,120
to work in their mouth.

776
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,160
Some chiropractor, but you're still missing a piece.

777
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,160
I can't.

778
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:30,160
Right.

779
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:35,400
So this is like the gross motor and the nervous system piece that every parent can do at home.

780
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,760
That will benefit every baby.

781
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:39,760
And guess what?

782
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:44,760
You just learn about oral motor skills and airway health and what should I look at in

783
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,680
my kid's future that you never knew.

784
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,520
So when you take this course, even though you're like, Oh, I think I'm going to learn

785
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:50,800
how to do tummy time.

786
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,120
You leave going, Oh shoot, this baby's time should be on the roof of their mouth to get

787
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:55,120
deep breathable sleep.

788
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:56,520
Like how was I supposed to know that?

789
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,300
You just leave knowing all these other things.

790
00:47:58,300 --> 00:48:02,200
So that was kind of the point of that course and I made it accessible.

791
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:07,400
I used to teach it in person and then I made it accessible online when the pandemic hit

792
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,600
when everybody was, you know, nobody was going out.

793
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,600
So it kind of just stuck and I've made advancements on that.

794
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:19,600
Like the, there's a crabby baby's course, which is that next step, right?

795
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:26,480
Your child might still have a tight hit from that same in utero constraint pattern that

796
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,720
just hasn't been addressed yet.

797
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:32,880
And that, so A, let's go back to what are the oral motor skills look like?

798
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,120
What does the floor of the mouth look like?

799
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,960
And B, how can we, how can we address this?

800
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:39,240
Because remember it's like tongue to toes.

801
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:40,240
It's all connected.

802
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:45,360
So we got to do them, you know, simultaneously and a crab crawl is when they crawl with one

803
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:51,880
knee down and one foot up and usually that's usually the foot is the foot of the side that

804
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,360
had been tighter or, you know, in utero and early on.

805
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,360
And so, you know, we, we want to be crawling symmetrically and you want those knees underneath

806
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,240
them and you want this strong core.

807
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:04,280
And so the, you know, there's the advancement of that.

808
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:09,240
And then, you know, I have a breathing course and where you just learn about all these things.

809
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:10,240
What's learned from Malaysia?

810
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:11,240
What is Strider?

811
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:12,760
You know, what is the tongue of the palate?

812
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,320
How do food allergies affect your baby?

813
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:17,440
Like all the things together.

814
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,800
So at this point of kind of just have a whole bunch of course.

815
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:22,800
So a reflex.

816
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:28,440
So a reflex little intro to reflexes course two of how to like, how does the moral reflex

817
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:29,440
affect feeding?

818
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:35,080
How does the moral reflex affect your six year old who is highly distracted in class who

819
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:40,000
looks like they have ADHD, but they're just getting distracted because a moral reflex

820
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:46,920
keeps getting turned on by the child next to them tapping on their desk or the fluorescent

821
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,640
lights flashing in front of their eyes or, you know, getting upset when their neighbor

822
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,200
bumps into them by accident and sees it as a threat.

823
00:49:54,200 --> 00:50:00,800
Like these are things that you can look into the future and kind of say, you know, oh,

824
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:01,800
my kid still has this.

825
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,480
So let's not get to that point.

826
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:15,400
So yeah, a lot of a lot of different home exercises to really just get parents thinking

827
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:21,000
simple things to do and kind of teach them about what the future might look like.

828
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,200
And so let's, you know, let's try to get ahead of the game, I guess.

829
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:26,200
Preemptive.

830
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:27,200
Let's try to fix it.

831
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,560
I love that.

832
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:34,440
So at the end of every podcast, I always turn it back over to the guests because you all

833
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:39,960
are the experts and it's completely up to you at this point.

834
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:45,360
Anything you want to share with moms or medical providers or, you know, anything you want to

835
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,160
emphasize a little bit more that we didn't cover.

836
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:54,680
You know, I think we covered a lot and I talk all over the place.

837
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:55,680
No, I know.

838
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,800
That's my fault.

839
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:04,120
You know, I guess I'll just reemphasize the fact that this all starts, you know, in utero

840
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,240
and you can work on it from day one.

841
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:11,680
The tongue resting on the palate opening up the airway is the end result.

842
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,840
Like this is the Holy Grail that we're all trying to achieve us as parents.

843
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:22,480
I'll try to speak for all of us as humans is that we are all battling that whole sleep

844
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,720
apnea epidemic, right?

845
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:31,680
Even if you don't feel like you need it, deep restful sleep is like haunting all of us,

846
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:32,680
essentially, right?

847
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:33,680
I don't snore.

848
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:34,680
I sleep with my mouth closed.

849
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,720
I sleep with my teeth apart, my mouth closed and my tongue on the roof of my mouth.

850
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:43,960
Well, I just got my own sleep study done and read by Dr. Zaggy in California and I have

851
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:49,040
my sleep apnea, I stop breathing six times every hour, right?

852
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:50,040
And you had no idea.

853
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:54,280
And I'm not the person who looks like I had an idea because I, like I said, I'm an insane

854
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:59,280
person and I study airway for a living because I wake up and I'm like, I'm too tired.

855
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:06,520
I have, you know, my palate isn't wide enough, my this, my that, my husband is ready to shoot

856
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,120
me, you know, if I talk about airway one more moment in my life.

857
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:14,680
But, you know, which is how I ended up meeting all these airway people, right?

858
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:21,320
Online and how I ended up connecting with Dr. Elmore about getting a soma.

859
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,280
And that's my palate expander, right?

860
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,520
And the cool thing about the soma is it's very similar to the alpha and the fact that

861
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:32,160
it allows the cranial bones to ebb and flow.

862
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:40,200
And Dr. DeCruz, the creator of the soma talks really a lot about how occlusion, how your

863
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:47,880
teeth biting together is the, is the starting point of kind of what triggers your nervous

864
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,280
system to go into that sympathetic fight or flight.

865
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:55,600
So basically the way he describes it is if your teeth don't occlude exactly correctly,

866
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,880
if your teeth don't bite down in alignment, then your muscles are going to be thrown off

867
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,480
and that's going to pull on your nervous system and you go into this sympathetic state.

868
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:10,480
So occlusion is kind of the key, I don't know, the key to that fight or flight kind of state.

869
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:18,240
So the soma fixes the bite, expands the palate, but very slowly.

870
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:21,720
It's like one turn every three to six months.

871
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:22,720
So very slow.

872
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:23,720
Very slowly.

873
00:53:23,720 --> 00:53:24,720
Yeah.

874
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:33,520
It also relaxes the TMJ almost immediately by getting the bite even on both back teeth

875
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,120
and then no bite along the front.

876
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:42,200
So it relaxes all those muscles kind of in that correct way versus more of those night

877
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:47,080
splints where they sometimes they will bite down just in the front and that will kind

878
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,760
of turn off some muscles, but then you don't occlude and you're not really supposed to

879
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,720
be biting down on the front, you're supposed to be biting down on the back.

880
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:59,120
So anyway, it is a jaw tension relaxation and sympathetic nervous system to parasympathetic

881
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,200
nervous system and expansion at the same time.

882
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:08,840
So that has led me down this path, which I think is kind of the coolest thing.

883
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:16,400
So a really good book to read about that is called the dental distress syndrome.

884
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,920
Dental distress syndrome, maybe?

885
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,920
Dental distress something.

886
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:28,440
Dr. Aho would kill me if she was like, stop butchering these things.

887
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:34,040
Anyway, I'm so infinitely, you know, I have so much gratitude for her for teaching me

888
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:40,560
this part of that because I knew I wanted to palate expand her and that I love the

889
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:45,320
elf for my kids because it allowed the craniosacral system and the cerebral spinal fluid to ebb

890
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:46,320
and flow.

891
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,200
And she's like, girl, I got the solution.

892
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:50,200
So here we are.

893
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,440
So I just started on my own airway journey.

894
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,040
When did I do that?

895
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,040
January.

896
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:04,520
So like, I've probably been in it for just coming up this weekend will be one, no, tomorrow.

897
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:05,520
No, today, the 13th.

898
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:06,520
That's right.

899
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:07,520
That's one month.

900
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:13,040
That's a one month today that I've been in it and already my jaw, which my gait was very,

901
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:14,040
very small.

902
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:19,280
I forget what I had 36 maybe, you know, within the office when they start doing the adjustments

903
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:25,200
on the soma, I already had gotten to like a 56 or 57, just like literally putting into

904
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,280
my mouth and getting that.

905
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:28,280
Wow.

906
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:29,280
Correct.

907
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:30,280
Yeah.

908
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:31,960
And now I couldn't protrude at all.

909
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,240
My jaw was so tight and so stuck, especially on the left side.

910
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:40,280
And now I can get my bottom teeth, like literally in front of my top teeth when I, when I try,

911
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:41,400
when I try hard.

912
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:42,400
So it's amazing.

913
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,840
It's been one month and I'm already seeing all these changes and I'm so, so grateful.

914
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:54,360
So, you know, the journey is in, in reach for everyone, everyone, no matter who you

915
00:55:54,360 --> 00:56:00,760
are, like, um, if that's what you put your time and energy into, right?

916
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,760
And my kids are six and eight this month.

917
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:08,280
So it wasn't like I learned they had tongue ties and all this stuff and then jumped in

918
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:09,280
the next day.

919
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,280
No, I, you know, I had them.

920
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,400
I raised them for a while and then said, okay, what about me?

921
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:15,400
So here we are.

922
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:21,000
So I guess, so that's, I guess my, you know, my kind of ending point is that it's okay

923
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:27,160
to put your time and energy into your kids, but the genes run strong.

924
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:34,800
So you probably are at least 50% of the reason that, you know, that you're listening to yourself

925
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:41,640
is exactly 1000% and, and there's, you know, there's progress to be made.

926
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,320
So thank you so much for being on and for sharing.

927
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:48,680
I mean, we did, we covered a lot and it was great information and just thank you for being

928
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:49,680
here today.

929
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:50,680
Absolutely.

930
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:56,040
Thank you so much for having me.

931
00:56:56,040 --> 00:57:00,680
Thanks again to today's guest, Elizabeth Morel for sharing her medical insight into each

932
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,040
of you for listening to today's episode.

933
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,440
If you're new to our podcast, please don't forget to subscribe.

934
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:11,720
And if you enjoyed today's episode, leave us a review or comment telling us about what

935
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:14,080
you enjoyed most.

936
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:18,200
You can stay connected with the Children's Airway First Foundation by following us on

937
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:23,320
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn.

938
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:28,920
Parents can also join us via our Facebook support group, the airway huddle at facebook.com

939
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,880
backslash groups backslash airway huddle.

940
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,520
If you haven't already, check out Children's Airway First on YouTube.

941
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:42,800
You can find a variety of informative original video content pieces as well as video recordings

942
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:47,640
and excerpts from select Airway First podcast episodes.

943
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:52,120
If you'd like to be a guest or have an idea for an upcoming episode, shoot us a note via

944
00:57:52,120 --> 00:58:00,080
the contacts page on our website or send us an email directly at info at children'sairwayfirst.org.

945
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,160
And finally, thanks to all the parents and medical professionals out there that are working

946
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:08,240
to help make the lives of kids around the globe just a little bit better.

947
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:38,080
Take care, stay safe and happy breathing everyone.