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Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of The

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Welcome Back to Airway First, the podcast from the Children's Airway First Foundation.

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I'm your host, Rebecca St. James. My guest today is Dr. Pajman Kaderahi, a board-certified

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pediatrician who was also boarded and fellowship trained in integrative medicine. Dr. K completed

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his undergraduate at UCLA and obtained his osteopathic medical degree at Western University of Health

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Sciences. He completed a pediatric residency at Loma Linda University, where he stayed on as a

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teaching faculty member for over four years. He also completed two fellowships in integrative

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medicine. Dr. Kaderahi is now in private practice in Santa Monica, California, where he focuses on

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helping children with severe behavioral challenges. He is also working with an amazing team to build

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holistic minds, an online portal that helps parents understand the root cause of their children's

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behavioral issues and what steps they can take to help resolve them. You can find out more about

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Dr. K at HolisticKids.com and HolisticMinds.com. And now, let's jump into my interview with today's

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guest, Dr. Pajman Kaderahi. Awesome. Thanks so much for joining us today, Dr. K. I really, really

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appreciate you being here. Happy to be here. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll just let parents know, you know,

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hang in there. You may not see the connection immediately, but as we were talking beforehand,

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I started listening to some other hearing you speak on other podcasts and other presentations.

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And so many questions came to mind, you know, both for myself and as a parent. So,

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lots to cover today. So, before we really dig into the meat of this, I heard you say something once

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that it was your own health journey that turned out to be your greatest teacher.

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And to me, that was just, that was huge. So, if you wouldn't mind just sharing a little bit about

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your journey and what got you into practicing integrative medicine? Absolutely. Yeah. So,

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you know, as a child adolescent in, I mean, even into my early 30s, I had, you know, bouts of

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pretty severe anxiety, inattention, just bouts of depression that would just kind of wash over me.

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And there was always a part of me that was like, why is this happening? Why is this happening?

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And, you know, other than, oh, you've got, you know, fill in the blank problem, here's a pill,

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you know, there was always this thing of, well, why is my experience of the world so much different

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than, you know, most other people? And when I was in my residency, what compounded this

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this questioning was, for whatever weird reason, my brain just has this audibility to kind of

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see things differently. And, you know, I remember vividly, we would have these kids come in and

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there's this, I've shared this story before with others, but this poor guy, this 14, 15-year-old

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Hispanic young boy was playing soccer, fell, got a little cut on his knee, six hours later,

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his knee swelled up, and then 24 hours later, he was dead. You know, and everyone else is like,

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oh, that was just, you know, septic, you know, disseminated sepsis and we didn't give antibiotics

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early enough. And, you know, I thought to myself, like, well, gosh, there are a lot of people that

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cut their knees and they don't die 24 hours later from that. Like, what was it about him that caused

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him to pass? There were other kids where, you know, their gastrointestinal tracts were falling apart

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and, you know, the team had done the medications and the medications failed and they were like, oh,

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well, next course of action is just to cut out his intestines because, you know, the colectomy

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is the next best option. And, you know, for me, it was like, wait, that's so weird. First of all,

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you can't even explain why his colon is so inflamed. He had inflammatory bowel disease. And,

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like, if you can't explain why his colon is so inflamed and you're throwing these medications

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at him and they're not working, why are you just jumping to cut out his colon? Like, what about

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all this other stuff? Like, what about his diet? Oh, no, the diet doesn't work. Oh, supplements and

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probiotics don't work. You know, and it was just this automatic knee jerk. Like, none of that stuff

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works. So let's just cut out his colon because that's the obvious and best choice. And that was,

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there was a lot of these moments in with my own kind of background, like, why do I feel this way?

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And why do all of these kids have these odd things? It just brought me to a place where I

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started really questioning, like, okay, there has to be something more than the picture that I'm seeing.

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And lucky enough for me, my advisor in residency was this brilliant doc who happened to be,

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you know, at least semi curious in holistic medicine. And she's like, well, why don't you go

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check out, you know, holistic medicine? Maybe it's an option for you. And I did instantly fell in

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love. And that was like 2006. And here I am a few years later. And for me, that the most beautiful

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part of this journey is the realization that there is no one singular answer. There's no one thing

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that explains everything for everyone. And part of my journey in understanding why I feel the way

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I do and why the kids that I serve, you know, experience what they do, whether airway problems or

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other things is really constantly training in different mindsets and different modalities.

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And it's like the guy that keeps going and collecting tools, you know, it's like, oh,

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I found the hammer. Oh, I found the drill, you know, and like each medical system for me is a tool.

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It's a way of looking at problems. And I've just learned that the more ways I can perceive a given

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problem, usually the better I am at solving it. And by no means have I figured everything out.

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I'm still learning in each day. It's like, wait a second, what if, you know, and then I go down

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another rabbit hole, and that opens up a new way of understanding. But for me, that that's, you

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know, what's so wonderful about this work, which is there are endless possibilities in understanding

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why kids experience what they do and why I experience what I do. And ultimately through this,

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hopefully I can be better at helping these children heal and regain their health.

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Yeah. And there are two things that that before we get too far that you said that

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really struck me one is that the children you serve, I just I love that way of looking at it.

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I mean, it's such a it sounds so simple, but it's such a very different dynamic,

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just a different way of looking at it. So thank you for that. And, you know, this holistic approach

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goes back to something that we've been saying for years now on this podcast.

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It is about looking at the entire child. Let's find the root. Let's stop just throwing pills at them

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and pushing them along. Because we're ending up with adults with problems we could have fixed

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decades before. So I love that approach. So okay, now we're going to jump into the meat of what we're

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going to talk about today, but let's level set things for parents. We're going to be talking

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about molds and what makes them toxic. So let's just start with exactly what are molds

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and how are some of them toxic to us? Yeah. So molds are everywhere, right? And without them,

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actually, life would cease to exist because they are the composters, right? They recycle materials,

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right? If a tree falls, it's the molds that decompose it. When we pass away,

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molds decompose us, right? They break down all biological matter into the most basic building

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blocks for it to be recycled. So they play a very valuable role in our ecosystem. And molds,

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it's true, molds are everywhere, as people say. It turns out that there are certain molds,

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like aspergillus, certain types of aspergillus, like stachybotress, which is the one that people

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associate with the classic black mold. Ketomium is another one where these molds happen to produce

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certain toxins, certain compounds. And you can look at these compounds as almost they're like a gas.

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They behave like a gas, even though technically it's not a gas. So they release this gas-like thing

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into our environment. And it turns out that this gas-like thing, these mycotoxins,

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moltoxins, happen to be very toxic to us human beings. And the analogy or thing that I tell

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to parents is, it's fantastic what molds are out there recycling things. It's just really bad when

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molds happen to be attempting to recycle you, right? The living human being, right? If it's

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your kid, it's even worse, right? So when their effort and toxicity and what they do is now being

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directed at a living human being, who is especially in the early part of life, that's not a fantastic

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thing. And this is one of the big misconceptions. Everyone's like, well, every house has mold.

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It's true, but homes should not have certain types of toxic molds that only grow in indoor

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environments, usually when there's water penetration, because certain molds like the Stachybotrys,

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they're very, very finicky. They only like certain climates. They only like, you know, it's like

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the family or person that only likes the 70 degree, you know, warm temperature that's super

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comfortable, right? They can't stand too much heat. They can't stand too much cold. These molds are

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very much like that. So at home that has some kind of water contamination or water penetration,

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turns out to be the perfect environment for them. And that's when they start growing and then start

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secreting these toxins and other compounds that then start causing a problem. Now, what I want to add

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is we're learning that it's not just a handful of molds. It's like when you have a leak or some

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kind of other humidity problem, moisture problem, it's like they're throwing a block party and they're

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sending out invitations to all of their cousins. So now you get bacteria that don't belong there.

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And it turns out these bacteria, these grand positive bacteria can start secreting their own

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toxins, which happened to be harmful to us. So you get this big party of microbes, molds and

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bacteria and all kinds of other things that are now together creating this toxicity and that collective

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toxicity is where the problems come from. And, you know, it's so funny. I mean, I guess a lot of people

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you think, OK, inner city housing, OK, I can see where it's going to be there. But it's in suburban

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housing and hearing you talk, the thing that surprised me, it's not just in our houses. There's

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other places that we're being exposed to this every day. Yeah. So absolutely. It could be in

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office buildings. I've seen it in classrooms where there was a few times where I mistakenly thought

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it was the family's home. And it turns out that it was the child's classroom in the old, old church

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that happened to be very musty. I've had families where, you know, they thought I was absolutely

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off my rocker because they had moved into a two year old custom construction, super fancy house

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that was, you know, more expensive than I can begin to understand. And it turns out that one of,

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I'll give you one specific example, one of the eight air conditioning units. Imagine a house

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big enough to have air conditioning units. One of the eight air conditioning units in this super,

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super fancy house happened to be the air conditioning unit that was contaminated and

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ultimately causing the toxicity. Because when air conditioning units aren't don't like their drain

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pan isn't set up and moisture just keeps trapping, you can imagine all of that mold that can grow

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in the pan underneath the air conditioner or on the coils. And that becomes a thing. I've had scenarios

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where again, really fancy nice house, the one window that was right by the kid's bed happened to

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have been flashed improperly. And every time it was raining, water was just going straight into the

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wall right around the kid's bed causing an issue. And, you know, people think like you need to have

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your ceiling collapse for you to have a mold problem, you know, where it's like, Oh my God,

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like, yeah, the water is about to cause that ceiling to fall apart. Rarely is it that obvious.

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Most of the time people have no idea that they have mold. And it's certainly not something

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that's on their radar, which is why I'm so happy to be here to share this. Because through the

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awareness and understanding is how we ultimately can piece things together.

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Right. Right. And get ahold of it. And but it's not just the part that blew me away that I heard you

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talk about was it was in other things. I think the one that really shook me was medication.

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But, you know, these are these are in foods and medications. And I mean, we're being exposed to

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them in so many ways. How is this possible? You know, what? I mean, I know how it's possible.

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But if something's toxic, why is it being put in a medication and why wouldn't that be something

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we're warned about? I think there's so much we don't understand. Right. So for instance, with

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foods, you know, when you look at certain grains and how they're stored, right, most grains are

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stored in big silos. And now, especially with climate change, you know, pretty much every part

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of the country has massive down spores and flooding and so forth. And these grains that sit in this

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high humidity for prolonged periods of time get moldy. Now, even if we're not the ones eating

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the moldy grains, which sometimes we are, usually those grains, if they're not fed to us, are fed

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to the animals, right, then consume these mycotoxins. And then those mycotoxins are passed to us,

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you know, through the animal products we eat. So it could be in food, it could be in milk,

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because milk is obviously from cows who are then fed these grains.

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And so, you know, in the food, you know, in the food, you know, you can have a lot of

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toxins, medications, supplements actually can have the mycotoxins. And what really seems to happen

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is you kind of have this starting point of toxicity, right, where between the foods we're

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eating and whatever else, everyone has a certain level of toxic load, we call it. Now, for most

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people, they can handle a certain amount of toxic load and their bodies are, you know, their

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body is dried and everything is fine. What seems to happen is once you add the environmental load

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on top of it, and you've got the glyphosates and plastics, and you know, these mycotoxins in our

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food and etc, etc, etc, they're right here. And then the environmental load now suddenly pushes

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it to up here, and you hit this breaking point where the system can no longer handle that toxic

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load. And now the gut starts falling apart, and the microbiome starts changing, and the immune

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starts changing. And then there's this just cascade of events that take place, which then

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result in a host of different diseases. Wow. And this can happen. We're not just talking about

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adults. We're talking it. I mean, how early are we talking in the womb or, you know, and how does it

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present when it starts impacting the kids? So we do know that mycotoxins are passed through the placenta.

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We do know that mycotoxins are concentrated and pass through breast milk. So it's entirely

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reasonable to say that we think that, you know, infants could be born with multoxicity.

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Early on, and I'm still not sure if this is actually the case, but what I have suspected and

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started observing in a handful of babies now that I've been smart enough to identify this, is

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it seems that early on, little babies who just have this off the charts colic, and essentially

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from the get go, they just are wired. It's like having the three-week hold that has taken multiple

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shots of espresso, and they don't fall asleep easily. They cannot calm their nervous systems.

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They nap for half an hour, and they're wide awake. And it's literally like having too much

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coffee for those who are sensitive, and you just literally can't calm your system down.

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So early on, it seems to show up possibly in this colic, and then from there, it can go on

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to show up as eczema. You know, I'm not talking a tiny patch of eczema, one part of the child's body.

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I'm talking, you know, the eczema that keeps growing, and it keeps writing, and next thing,

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you know, it's on multiple areas, and it's angry, and it's red, and it's itchy.

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That kind of eczema, it starts showing up as more and more severe gastrointestinal issues. So the kids

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that, you know, it's not just mom has to get rid of a little bit of dairy if they're nursing, it's

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mom has to get rid of gluten, dairy, and eggs, and this and that, because the kid's gut is so

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insanely reactive early on, or those poor babies that have to go on the hypoallergenic or elemental

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formulas because they do not tolerate any kind of other formula. When you start putting the pieces

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together, you start realizing that this could be one of the significant contributing factors to

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that early, early presentation of these things. Wow. And that statement in my back of my mind,

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I'm going through my children now, I'm going, yes, I had one of those. And now this is one of those,

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I have to say it every podcast because it happens to me. You don't know what you don't know,

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Park the Mom guilt. It's okay, we're learning. So let's just move forward for me here. So

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how does this present as we go through older children, you know, impacting their immune system

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and their nervous system, what might that look like? Before I answer that, if I can just touch

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on what you said right before that, I certainly hope that everyone who's listening, I mean,

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it's natural to feel guilty if all of a sudden you're like, oh my god, what if this was my kid?

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And that's just being a good parent. The most important part of this conversation

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is how much you can do to reverse and treat this. So if your child has had all kinds of

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different issues, nervous system issues, and we'll touch on this, immune problems,

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gastrointestinal issues, airway issues, obviously, these are all things that you can treat,

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and probably get your kid in the healthiest place that they've been in years by understanding this.

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So what I would love to do is kind of reframe this picture from doom and gloom and oh my god,

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you know, what if I've let my kid suffer like this too? Wow, I have something that I can do to

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really help my kid, my family, myself become so much healthier. And for some of those families that

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are listening in maybe early on in the process, how much you can do to prevent the progression of

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problems by actually addressing this. And part of why I feel so passionately about speaking about

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this is from a treatment and prevention standpoint, the outcomes that are possible are staggering.

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And the way children and families can heal from all of this is amazing. So I really hope that

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this information empowers you to really feel good about helping your family be healthier rather than

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sitting in a place of guilt and shame. Oh my god, doom. Yes, well said. And yes, thank you.

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Seriously, every podcast, we hit that point and you can just because I know I feel it.

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And so collectively, you know, parents listening just have that.

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So we always have to say just park that guilt. Put it aside and let's move forward. Absolutely.

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So let's go back and talk a little bit about ways that it presents and the way it can impact

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their immune system or their nervous system. Yeah. So the first thing is let's look at the immune

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system and you can just kind of look at it from a logical standpoint. If you have a competent immune

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system that protects the body, would that allow the mold and maltoxins to ultimately do their thing?

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Which is no. So what's really clever about the mold and maltoxins is they actually start causing

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a weird disruption in the immune system. Where on one hand, they essentially can't say they disabled

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the immune system because they don't, but they suppressed immune system. And what you find in

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some children about 10 to 20 percent of the time is this weirdly low white blood cell count. So for

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families whose kids have had their blood taken, you'll see like normal white blood cell counts

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is typically about 4500. And these kids are hovering around 4200, 4100, 3800. So they're not like

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heavens forbid, like cancer immune distorted, but their immune systems are just not functioning well.

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And how this shows up on the outside is the kid who just gets one infection after another,

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after another. And it's not they get a cold and they fight it off in two days. It's they get a cold

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and they're congested and inflamed for three or four weeks, and then they go on to develop an ear

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infection. And now they have a pneumonia. And it's just this never ending cycle of illness after

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illness, after a complication from that illness. And then as soon as you've treated one illness,

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another one shows up. So that's one of the first things that we see. The second thing that we see

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is the immune reaction against these molds. So we have these cells are called mass cells. And

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they're kind of like the immune scouts of the body. Their job is to kind of survey, you know,

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the terrain of the body and say, Okay, is everything cool? Or no, is there a threat? And then they

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basically sound the alarm for all the other cells to come and fight whatever thing threat that's there.

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It turns out that mold toxins and molds themselves happen to be particularly good about just

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really irritating these sentinels, these mass cells. And when these mass cells get really

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activated, they start dumping out tons of histamine. So they start creating a lot of congestion.

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They cause a lot of inflammation. And the first thing that that shows up as is just this constant

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faucet of mucus that just never ends. And it's just those kids that are congested all the time.

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And then because they're congested all the time, you know, mouth breathing, right, which then goes

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on to create a whole host of other issues. But those kids that are congested all the time,

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they get ear infections because they're congested. So there is station tube doesn't drain. So back

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to back ear infections, usually they ended up getting ear tubes because they've had 15 ear

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infections in, you know, not too long a period of time. So it's that chronic chronic inflammation

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and congestion. And that same mass cell activity, that same histamine also can show up through the

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skin, which is where the eczema and all of these weird skin rashes. So sometimes the kids don't

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have eczema, but they get these hives that just come and go for no reason. And they're taking a

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shower and suddenly they get, you know, hives that pop up and then go away. So those are some of the

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first fundamental things that parents will see. And sometimes, you know, one child is presenting

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with something different, and then you've got the parent who's always congested and so forth.

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Okay. Okay. But it can also be, I don't want to say this incorrectly, tied to or connected with

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things like ADHD and depression. Yeah. So what we don't oftentimes talk about is the role of

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histamine in the nervous system. And to give, you know, our audience context of that, think of a time

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where you or your kid or someone has taken Benadryl. And, you know, what that Benadryl does,

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right, you just knock out Benadryl is an anti histamine. It's a very non selective

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anti histamine, but it's an anti histamine. And what it does is basically, if histamine is the air

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in the balloon that puffs up the balloon, aka our sympathetic nervous system, Benadryl takes that air

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out of the balloon and causes the balloon to collapse, which is why we pass out.

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So

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you're listening to airway first, the podcast from the Children's Airway First Foundation.

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You can find out more about CAF and our mission to fix before six on our website at

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children's airwayfirst.org. The CAF website offers tons of great resources for both parents and

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medical professionals. In our parents portal and clinicians corner, you can find educational

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and informational content, including videos, blogs, our recommended reading list, comprehensive

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medical research, podcasts, events, parent support, and educational opportunities.

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Parents are also encouraged to join the airway huddle, our Facebook support group, which was

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created for parents of children with airway and sleep related issues. You can access the airway

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huddle support group at facebook.com backslash groups backslash airway huddle.

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Are you interested in being a guest on the show? Then shoot us a note via the contact

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page on our website or send us an email directly at infoatchildrensairwayfirst.org.

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As a reminder, this podcast and the opinions expressed here are not a medical diagnosis.

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If you suspect your child might have an airway issue, contact your pediatric airway dentist

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or pediatrician. And now let's jump back into today's podcast.

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Just the right amount of histamine is what we want, where it's not in excess, it's not too low,

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because if it was too low, we'd be on the floor sleeping all the time. And what molds do to

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mass cells is by releasing all of this histamine, we're not just causing allergy issues. In some

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children, depending on their genetics and how they're wired, what can happen is these children

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suddenly have these nervous systems that just cannot settle down. So it goes back to what we

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were talking about in the little babies. And it's literally like the child has had 15 cups of coffee

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every day. But it's not just their nervous systems can settle down. It turns out that beyond that

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just constant inability to settle down to shut down, histamine also modulates our sensory pathways.

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So how we perceive sound, how we perceive touch, our sense of balance, all of these different

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senses are actually in some way, shape or form, modulated or affected by histamine. So the vestibular

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system, which is our inner ear, which controls balance, actually can be very much disrupted

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by history. And how that shows up is this kid that just cannot settle their body for the life of them.

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And these poor kids get in trouble. Johnny, sit down, Susie, why are you constantly moving?

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The parents are getting mad at them, teachers are getting mad at them, ultimately, we put them on a

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stimulant because that's one way to keep them still. But that constant movement is actually

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oftentimes a histamine imbalance. It also shows up as those poor kids that just get overwhelmed

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in loud and crowded environments. And there's a lot of adults actually, that as I talk to them,

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the parents like, yeah, that's that's actually me. It's not my kid, but it's me. So when there's that

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sensory overwhelm in an environment, a lot of times that sensory overwhelm is rooted in histamine

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and balances. And it's almost like someone takes the dial of your sensory balance and normal

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sensory experience should be here. And you turn it up to here. And all of a sudden, the intensity

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of the sensory world is dialed up so much that after being in an environment for a half an hour,

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people want to leave. People get anxious. Sometimes what we see in the children that we label as

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autistic. And these are kids that make perfect eye contact, they're talking to you. But they

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just can't socialize, they can't be in social environments. Why? Because they're constantly

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overwhelmed by their sensory experience of the world. And what's really amazing in these cases

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is you bring down the histamine levels, you calm down the inflammation, and suddenly these kids

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that are autistic are now, you know, they're a little quirky, maybe, but they're able to socialize

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and they're able to be in the world and they're able to enjoy the world, which is the coolest part

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of this. Yeah, it would be. And it even goes as far as I heard you share a story about one patient.

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I believe it was her clothing. Just that that just seems,

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that just blew me away that it can really impact a child that much, that they can have a reaction

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to the way their own clothes feel. Yeah. Yeah. Taktile sensitivity. Thank you for touching on

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that is another reflection of the same thing. So our experience of touch, so how clothing feels on

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our body, a lot of times is also influenced by that. And a lot of these kids who have, and you

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can see there's usually a constellation, these kids, you know, they can't tolerate tight bands.

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In the case of this one poor little girl, she couldn't even tolerate clothing.

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And again, as you dial down the histamine and rebalance it, all of a sudden, these kids,

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you know, tactile sensitivities go away. And that could even, you know, transfer over into

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what they eat as well. Is that a sensitivity? You know, we think they're picky eaters, but

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they're just having some kind of sensory reaction. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's twofold for those kids.

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So one, some kids just say that food tastes really gross in their mouth. So the older kids have

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actually articulated that. And when you look at what some kids who are extremely picky eaters eat,

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it's chicken nuggets, mac and cheese, you know, pizza, a handful of, you know, easy to eat foods

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that are kind of neutral in taste and texture wise, there's very little involved and they can just

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bite and swallow it. And when it comes to really dense textures, aka steak, for instance, or mixed

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textures, that sensory experience is so overwhelming to these kids on the inside of their mouth that

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it becomes almost offensive. And we just think, you know, eating is pleasurable, right? Right.

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Enjoying certain things is so pleasurable, except for these kids, the act of eating is certainly

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not pleasurable. They eat for the sake of, you know, sustaining themselves, but rarely is it an

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enjoyable experience because of that sensory overwhelm. Sometimes what also happens is the

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sense of smell, the olfactory senses change. And there are some kids who just literally cannot

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handle the smell of certain foods. And there are some families where literally a kid will just leave

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when the family is eating because of the smell. And that also then affects what they can eat

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and how much they can eat. And, you know, as an extension of this, think of when you've had too

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much coffee, your appetite goes away, right? Your appetite gets suppressed. And for some of these

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kids, compounding all of these other issues related to smell and texture in the mouth,

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their appetite is suppressed. So they kind of nibble a little bit all day, but they never get

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that hungry because their nervous systems again are just stuck at like 100 miles an hour all the time.

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Wow. Okay. So if as a parent, you're you're starting to put the pieces together and you're

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seeing some of these signs and symptoms that could possibly, I mean, obviously we don't know,

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but possibly be related to these moles and these toxins. What, where do we start?

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All right. And you just go to your pediatrician and say, could we check this or where do we go?

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The best starting point is to first kind of zoom out. Okay. Because usually it's not one child.

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Usually there's someone else in the home that's having an issue. And that to me is the biggest

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red flag. And for adults, sometimes they can show up as congestion. Sometimes they can show up,

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you know, as anxiety or these sensory things that we talked about or whatever else. But the other

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thing that that mycotoxins do is they disrupt the mitochondria. So they disrupt energy production.

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And when they do that, one of the things that really comes to light is just this lackluster

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energy state. And the kids, those are the kids that, you know, run for 30 seconds and want to sit

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or they just don't run at all. They just kind of sit and play quietly. Those kids that they're

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really not that active. Sometimes as you put the pieces together, you see it all kind of fit into

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that very unified picture. There are a lot of adults that, you know, kind of normalize their

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fatigue. And, you know, the common thing that parents say to me is like, well, I just thought,

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you know, having two, three, four kids was the reason why I'm tired all the time. And I never

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thought about it being more than that. Whereas in reality, it's not, I mean, their children are

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not helping, but it's their actual physiological state that's causing that. And be a simple thing

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that parents can do, and I can't provide medical, you know, advice just on a, you know, podcast

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like this, but taking carnitine, just 500 milligrams of carnitine over the counter,

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please talk to your doctor before doing anything, but taking carnitine sometimes boosts

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energy production. So as a litmus test, sometimes I'm like, take this, see if you feel better.

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And that becomes a data point. Brain fog and memory issues are also oftentimes

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a sign that there's some kind of mycotoxin or other toxin exposure. So a lot of parents, you know,

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what they'll all of a sudden start realizing is like, gosh, yeah, you know, five years ago,

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I used to have really good memory, and my memory has just gotten progressively worse.

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And again, they chalk it up to, oh, I just thought that was just being a busy parent and having too

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much on my plate. So as these pieces come together, a lot of times families will get to a place where

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they're like, God, yeah, this, this really fits the bill. And this, this can really be what's

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happening. If that's the case, the first thing to do, I would say is to actually find someone

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that knows what they're doing. Talking to your pediatrician or regular physician oftentimes

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leads to a dead end. There's an organization called ISEAI, International Society for Environmentally

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Acquired Illness. And they actually have this incredible database of providers around the

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around the country and world, who can help people who have been impacted. One of my dear friends and

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mentors, Dr. Neil Nathan, he actually has his own website, and he has trained hundreds of providers

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also in the world of mold. And these people are quite competent in helping as well. So by utilizing

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these resources, you can find someone who hopefully is, you know, in your neighborhood, or at least

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in your state that can help you start unraveling what's going on. Okay. And is this the type of

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situation where you hear a lot about it? And I don't want to poo poo everything you see on

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social media. So please, audience, don't take it that way. But you see a lot on social media.

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Detox is something that people talk about a lot. Is there some validity to it in a situation like

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this? I mean, is that or something that makes sense sometimes? Yeah. Yeah. Detox can certainly be a

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very valuable part of the healing process. I think when it's done indiscriminately, and you're just

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kind of throwing stuff at the wall, hoping something sticks, that's when you're kind of spinning your

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wheels, or sometimes people actually get more ill as a result of that. So detoxing and using binders

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like activated charcoal or clay or other compounds to start pulling these toxins out and doing other

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things to restore the gut could certainly be helpful. It's just, it needs to be done, you know,

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with the help of someone that knows what they're doing to guide you through that process.

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Right, which makes sense. And you mentioned the gut. Just quick thought on that. Probiotics are

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everywhere. And we're hearing it talked about so often. How does that help or does it help at all

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with something like this? So probiotics are fantastic. They can certainly help in the restoration

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and healing of the gut. When someone is living in a mold contaminated environment and they're hoping

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that their probiotics are the magical solution to fix their problems, that's like having your house

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burning down because of a main gas line leaking. And you've got your little fire extinguisher

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trying to put out that fire and you're wondering why the fire doesn't go out.

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And, you know, early, early on, I couldn't understand why some of my patients whose gut problems were

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there just were not healing. And finally, I wised end up and realized like, oh my God, it's because

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they have all of these, you know, toxins floating through their system and through the exposure.

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And oftentimes when you control the exposure, the gut actually starts healing and that's when the

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probiotics and other things can help. And it's just kind of a general thought because I know a lot

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of our listeners, they have humidifiers in their house, especially if you have a breathing disorder,

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you hear a lot of, you want to keep the air moist, you want to keep it where it's more palatable to

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your system. How does that work as far as being a dangerous breathing?

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Humidifiers could be super, super helpful when they're used with caution. Because if you do take the

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humidity level of an environment past a certain point, you have now started creating a breeding

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ground for possibly mold, you know, dust mites can start growing. So, like, especially in really

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dry environments or climates, you know, what I'll tell the families is at nights when your kid is

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sleeping, run the humidifier, get the humidity levels up so they can sleep. And then during the

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day, shut that thing off and let it dry. Because a lot of times these humidifiers can get moldy

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themselves if we're not careful. So you just need to be aware of what you're doing and how you're

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doing it rather than just, you know, indiscriminately running a humidifier 24 seven and taking

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humidity levels to 70% all the time. Right. Living in a little greenhouse. Yeah. So at the end of

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every episode, I always like to hand it back to our guests because you are the experts. And

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it just leaves the last word with you. Anything final thoughts or messages for our audience?

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You know, especially when it comes to airway, I think this is an area that as far as moldy

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is concerned is something that we have paid way little attention to. I have seen obviously

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that there's more reasons than just mold. But I have seen a significant number of kids who have

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chronic mouth breathing and we do myofin they're doing myofunctional therapy, except someone has

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missed the fact that there's mold exposure. So you're doing the therapy to kind of reorient the

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mouth and tongue, you know, mouth closed, except the poor kid can't breathe, right? Because they're

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congested all the time. There's one published study that has demonstrated adenoid hypertrophy

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from mold exposure from an indoor environment. And, you know, a lot of these kids, they start

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off with some mouth breathing because they're congested. And that then starts creating a cascade

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of events that starts leading to tonsillar and adenoid hypertrophy. And then a lot of times these

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kids end up getting surgery, right? And we're hoping that the surgery fixes things, which a lot of

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times it does, it restores the airway. But that congestion is still there. And that congestion

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perpetuates everything. And I've had, you know, probably four or five cases where the tonsils

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actually grew back out. And the parents are like, what do you mean my kids' tonsils are

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back? And what do you mean they're having, you know, obstructive sleep apnea again? We had these

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taken out two years ago. So, and the flip side of this is I've had a few cases where with a lot

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of hard work on the family's part, you know, we addressed the environmental exposure, took care

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of whatever mold was in the home. The family did a lot of work to change the kid's diet. So it was

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a low inflammatory diet. We did certain supplements like probiotics and immunoglobulins to calm down

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the gut inflammation. And all of a sudden, the kid that had these, you know, big tonsils, obvious

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airway obstruction slated to have surgery a month later, like the tonsils are still big, but they

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were no longer obstructing the airway. Kid was sleeping soundly with their mouth closed, snoring

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was gone. And all of a sudden, it's this kid didn't need surgery. And there are times that I think

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surgery is absolutely the best course. And I'm the one pushing the families, you know, those poor

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kids that are choking and gagging, and they just can't breathe and they can't oxygenate. Yes.

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But there were also a lot of kids to we just charge into surgery as our first course of action.

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Without standing back and saying, what is causing this poor kid's system to be so inflamed? What is

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causing so much congestion and buildup in this child's body that is then causing these cascade of

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events that are leading to surgery? And what if we nip things at that level to then see how everything

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else folds out? Because there's a chance that I don't want to peg a percentage on it, but if

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fair number of kids that right now, parents are looking at surgery as their only option,

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suddenly becomes, oh, this is another option that can help. And sometimes it can help so much to

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the point where surgery is no longer even a necessary thing. That would be amazing.

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Thank you so much for being on here and sharing everything. And as I alluded to earlier, there

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is so much to this and we've really just touched the surface. So I will be putting quite a few links

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and YouTube videos in our show notes so that parents can find out more.

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It was a delight to be here and to share this information with you and your audience. And thank

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you for creating this space and holding this space to just inform the community and help parents

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learn more about these very important things.

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Thank you.

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Thanks again to today's guest, Dr. Pajman Kattarahi for sharing his medical insight.

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And for each of you who are listening to today's episode.

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If you're new to our podcast, please don't forget to subscribe. And if you enjoyed today's episode,

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leave us a review or comment telling us about what you enjoyed the most.

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00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,520
You can stay connected with the Children's Airway First Foundation by following us on Instagram,

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00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:07,360
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00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:12,880
the Airway Huddle app, facebook.com backslash groups backslash airway huddle.

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00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,920
You can find tons of great content for parents and medical professionals

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on our Parents Portal and Clinicians Corner on our website at childrensairwayfirst.org.

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If you'd like to be a guest or have an idea for an upcoming episode,

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shoot us a note via the contact page on our website or send us an email directly at infoat

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00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:44,240
childrensairwayfirst.org. And finally, thanks to all the parents and medical professionals out

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there that are working to help make the lives of kids around the globe just a little bit better.

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Take care, stay safe, and happy breeding everyone!