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Hi everyone, and welcome back to Airway First, the podcast from the Children's Airway First

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Foundation. I'm your host, Rebecca St. James. My guest today is Dr. Catherine Murphy. Dr. Murphy

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partners with orthodontic facilities to implement her distinctive patient-centered approach and

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healthcare collaborative approach. As an independent contractor and consultant, Dr. Murphy helps

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orthodontic practices establish and enhance their orthodontic departments through specialized

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program-based guidance, including patient care. She shares her passion for holistic dentistry

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through her speaking engagements and consulting across the globe. She's the author of two picture

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books focusing on the connection between oral and overall health. Dear mama and dear friend,

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do you know about tongue ties? Both books can be found on the CAF-recommended reading list.

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She also reaches caregivers nationwide through her podcast, Dear Mama with Dr. Murphy. The show

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provides insights into the holistic and collaborative care approaches that she teaches to orthodontics

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throughout the globe. A graduate of the Indiana University School of Dentistry, Dr. Murphy has

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been inducted into the American College of Dentists and selected to serve as an American Dental

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Associate Wellness Ambassador. Dr. Murphy is on a mission to elevate patient care by introducing

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a holistic approach to orthodontic treatments and to dental professionals across the nation.

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I am super excited about today's episode, so let's get right to it and jump into my interview

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with today's guests, Dr. Catherine Murphy. All right, great. Thank you so much for joining us

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today, Catherine. Thank you, Rebecca. It's my pleasure to be here. Yeah, I'm super excited to talk to you today

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really because this message is something I think parents need to hear.

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So let's start our conversation and just talk a little bit about what is holistic

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orthodontics in facial harmony. So we can kind of get an understanding of how this is different

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from what we know as traditional orthodontics. Thank you because the word holistic, I chose it

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for many reasons to kind of set myself apart. And I realized when I chose the word holistic,

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it can come with lots of different ideas that parents might have as well as other providers.

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So first, let's just address that some people might think holistic orthodontics means that they

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don't need to have any actual orthodontics done. They don't have to have any appliances,

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that there's some other alternative method for straightening teeth that they don't actually

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have to involve me. And I can help support that idea, but if they come to me, I'm going to talk to

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them how I can help grow their jaws. So I don't have a magic wand yet. Right. I just help move

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everything. So that's one of the things because some parents have come in like, oh, well, I thought

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you were holistic, so I wouldn't actually have to do any actual appliances or anything. But if you

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want me to help grow your jaws for me, that's my modality. And I can help support others that can

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then help further growth, such as cranial secret therapy, things like that. And by the way, I love

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that you're saying grow the jaw. It's not just about straightening the teeth. Right. So that's

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we'll get to that too. So thank you. The other thing is some some people think then it's just I

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incorporate essential oils or that it's some kind of weird voodoo that I do. I will say I support

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those oilers out there. I don't incorporate that into my practice because I don't have a strong

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enough knowledge base, but I support anyone that they feel that is helping their child,

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such as different people use diffusers, things like that. Right. I'm aware enough to know that

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that can be very beneficial. It's just not part of my practice. Okay. And there's no voodoo.

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Everything that I do is scientifically based. Right. I just choose the word holistic because

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it really resonated with the patients I wanted to help those that understood I am not going to be

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looking at the teeth primarily on my list of checks of what I looked for on my patients.

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The teeth come in maybe like the lower third part of my checklist. Okay. And that shift alone.

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I want to help the patients and parents that are going to be like, oh, that's okay that you're

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talking about the teeth last because that's not for everyone yet. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

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And I understand there's others that use airway centric or airway. For me and where I was starting

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out in a town outside of Chicago, but it's a suburb in Indiana, airway, what did that mean to them?

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Right. Airway and orthodontics didn't seem to go together. You know, there's some things that go

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together like peanut butter and jelly, but airway and orthodontics, that was so much of a barrier

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because it what what did that even mean? Right. Now, all these years later, it's much more of a

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topic. Right. But when I started out, that wasn't something that would resonate with those I was

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trying to help. So holistic is actually patient centered care. So I'm looking at the entire patient

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and what the patient needs and not just focusing on, okay, you came in here with this chief

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complaints. I'm only going to adjust this chief complaint and not look at the rest of either your

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child or yourself, which was the modality before you came with a chief complaint. I addressed

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your chief complaint. You were happy if I did well, you weren't happy if I didn't. Okay. And

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the word holistic then actually gives me room to better like support a community that also

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wants to track those same type of patients. So it opened me and my patients up to a whole new

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community that I didn't even realize was in my own area. So what I also like to share is that

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there are some practitioners that are holistic that don't advertise as being holistic, because

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it's not a new thing. It's not a trendy thing. It's really just letting the caregivers, the parents,

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the patient know, hey, you can come in here, share with me what is bringing your concern,

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but crooked teeth are really just a symptom of an underlying cause. And most often that underlying

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cause is mouth breathing. And mouth breathing is really just a symptom of many other underlying

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causes. And everything can be brought back to the oral health, everything can be brought back to the

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story of the teeth. And I'm going to look at all of this and how I can help address your

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chief complaint, but also let you know if crooked teeth is your only chief complaint and you don't

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want to discuss this other stuff, there are many other people that can help you.

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Right. Right. And you know, it's interesting and you mentioned that it's not this isn't a new concept.

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But it's just not the normal concept. Let's look at the root cause. Let's look at everything

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and go to the root cause. And I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but we just,

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as somebody who has spent so many years in this medical realm, as a patient, so often it's,

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you know, here's a pill, here's a pill, here's, and we just move along. Where did this come,

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at what point did we go off force? And where we don't look at the root cause, what's causing

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all this? Because otherwise you're just going to have a patient back and back and back.

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Well, this is actually where I might be rubbing some people the wrong way with this.

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It's two sided. Okay. It's part of what us, the patient, because I'm also a patient, I've had

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similar stories where then we didn't get to the root cause. I was just giving a med that then

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caused more problems than it caused me to be on other meds. Exactly, right. But also, I understand

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that where I was, I went in and I'm like, this needs to be fixed, fix me. Okay. So now I've gone

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through and I've had to own that. That is what I asked. And that is what the physician gave me.

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That's fair enough. Yeah. And especially in my specialty of orthodontics, the patient wants it

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painless, right? We all want things to be as painless as possible. Sure. We all want things to

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be as easy as possible and as fast as possible. And that's where the biggest thing comes in, where

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there's a whole other discussion about the demand of the six month smiles, if you're aware of that,

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treating just the, you know, aesthetic six teeth, all of that was driven though by what the patient

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was asking for, right? So we need to remind ourselves as the patient, what did we ask of them?

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Now, we also have to understand we didn't always know that we could ask for more. And that's why

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CAF was created so that we could let patients and parents know you can ask for more. You are

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deserving of feeling good every day. But how many companies profit off of us feeling good every day?

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Right. So many companies profit off of us not only being codependent on others for feeling good,

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but our coffee for feeling good, our clothing for making us to have a status symbol. There's a lot

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of revenue generation off of us not being empowered. And now there is enough upset when, when it

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affects ourselves, it's one thing. But when it affects our child, that's where the earth shakes,

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because then we're like, no, I've allowed this to happen to me, but I'm not going to allow this to

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happen to my child. So I'm so appreciative that this organization has been started and continues

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to grow so much because it is the parents. And it's not fair. Okay, there's a lot of things that

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might not be fair. But that's how it is. They're the ones that are requesting the change for care.

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Yeah. And there's there's so many things in this question that I'm answering.

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No, no, it's great. It's great. And this goes right along what we say all the time to these

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airway mamas. That's driving this change. Yes. And it's I'm I'm here because I'm that airway mama.

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I had already started looking into like, okay, why is this happening? And it wasn't until my own son.

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And I just this morning, he was asking certain things. And I told him a brief story again of like,

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you know, I owe it to my son that he was the tipping point for me to actually become the best

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version of me, because I didn't take enough. I don't know, I guess I would say I didn't have

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enough confidence in asking for what I really wanted and deserved from my health from many things.

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Because I'm like, oh, I probably don't deserve that. Oh, I'm gonna be a bother. That's gonna take

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up too much time. Right. Right. We've all done that. Or I'm complaining. I'm complaining. Oh,

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I should just listen to the doctor. And then my son, I was at that point of, well,

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I could just listen to everybody. Everybody's just telling me. And okay, some people will be out

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there saying, buddy, okay, majority of people around me are like, why don't you just listen to

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the doctor? Why don't the doctor says everything's fine. But I was at this fork in the road where I

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could just say, okay, yeah, it's the doctor, the doctor, the doctor, I'm just gonna follow what

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the doctor says. Or I could address that little eating away part of me that I'm not

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like, you know better, you know better, you know better, listen, listen, listen.

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So not to get on that tangent, but to that, it brings us back to

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orthodontics. Okay, so that's, that's where I realized, oh, goodness, I,

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I get to change how I care for my patients. And with my specialty, my specialty sometimes gets

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really hit hard, right? How dare they have done this and the headgear and the teeth pulling.

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And I'm going to just say that

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the majority of healthcare providers out there, and I'm sure there's, there's all,

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you can't always say always or never, right, they went into this, because they wanted to serve others.

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They did the best they could. And what they were taught. With what they were taught and what they

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were asked for. Any patient that comes in at 12 years old, that missed by so many other providers

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that saw that child, that patient before the orthodontist at 12 years old saw them.

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Yeah. And this also goes back to something we say all the time.

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Usually we say it for the parents, but just to be fair, it goes to our, our clinicians

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audience as well. You don't know what you don't know. They weren't taught this. We hear this

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so often from medical providers on our show. They weren't taught this. So how would they know?

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You know, so we're all parents and providers growing in the same direction, trying to catch up.

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And when you don't know what you don't know, and you're being asked, you're being asked to look

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at the teeth, you're being asked to fix these as fast as possible with as little pain as possible,

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with as few visits as possible. And then you get into your zone of, okay, patients are happy.

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Patients are happy. Patients are happy. And you keep going down that road. Now this is where I can

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also say my profession, there are many that they want to not see this. Because once you see

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the difference in treatment planning your patient based off of crooked teeth or a symptom

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versus crooked teeth are the problem. And you can see the dramatic shifts in the care for that

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patient. You can't unsee it. Nope, you can't. So what do they do? They throw doubt. No,

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there's no way that that can be true. You need more research because what does research do?

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It gives it time. Oh, you got to have X number of randomized control studies, which

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we're not going to do this in children, right? Oh, I don't think so.

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But then they said, well, that's the highest. Yes, but that's not ethical. That's not fair.

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So it buys that like, oh, I have time. I have time. I don't have to look at this. I don't have to

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acknowledge this aspect of care because it's not validated enough because it is validated.

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It is validated. And arguably, I've read many journal articles, many textbooks, many years of

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study. You simply go back to your anatomy book and physiology of how we are supposed to function.

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And are you going to make me do a research project on the anatomy

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of what proper anatomy is supposed to be? We're taught proper anatomy. How many times do you see

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proper anatomy in your patients? I ask them how often? And then why? Why? Just tell me, just

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start the question of why. But a lot of people, they don't want that why because it makes the job

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harder. It makes it timing harder and makes it more work for the patient because it can't just be

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dropped off here. Drop off my kid. I'm going to pick them up in 20 minutes. Okay. And then I'll come

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back in six weeks and I don't want to do anything other than making sure that the child brushes

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because that's not patient-centered care. That's drop off, pick up. I'm not going to worry because

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I'm going to put it all on the practitioner. Yeah, let's just put in a fix on it too. Yeah.

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Yeah. And it's also not addressing the other part of your question was facial harmony, which

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to have that truly stunning smile, when you, everyone will think of, when you think of someone

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that has a truly stunning smile, whoever that might be. Julia Roberts. Yes. Every time. Yeah.

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But everything's connected. She's got wonderful symmetry. She's using her muscles evenly.

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Everything works well together. Those that have straight teeth, but not a great smile,

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which think about it for a second. Let that picture come to your mind. You're like, oh,

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and then you might see that they have poor posture. They might always be leaning to one side.

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But if you look at me, I'm still, I'm a recovering mouth breather. So I am a recovering facial

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disharmony. Okay. When you can get everything working together and you have facial harmony,

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all of the muscles are supporting to your tongue posture, your tongue is up at the roof of the

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mouth. Your lips want to go together without struggle. You can breathe through your nose.

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Now that is not only a stunning smile, but a stunning face.

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And as we've discovered the mental implications that come with it as well,

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you're going to see not everybody, but overall signs and symptoms of ADHD go away,

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anxiety drops, depression comes more and more. You see mental changes as well in these patients.

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Well, one thing we all have in common, anyone listening to this, anyone that's here,

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we're all breathing, but we don't all breathe correctly. Right. And that's just not a topic

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that is in most parental groups. That's not a topic that's brought up in medical groups of what's

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going on with my patient. They might look at oxygen saturation, but they're not looking at how the

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patient is breathing because they're obviously breathing. Otherwise, they wouldn't be in your

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clinic, but that we can breathe incorrectly. And we take the simplest thing sometimes and think,

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oh, well, I'm not going to think about that because obviously they are doing it.

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But we also can understand that you can walk incorrectly. Right. We talk about toe walking

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and walking is discussed. We can eat incorrectly. We talk about messy eating. So the discussion of

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breathing incorrectly seems so simple. Yet it is complex. And that is something that we are not

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trained well enough. So anytime that we're not trained very well, well, I'm supposed to be the

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expert. And I'm not the expert at this. So we're going to send this to somebody else or we're just

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not going to talk about it. We're going to punt it down. And then you realize that there are so

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many people that disagree on breathing like, yeah, excelling through the mouth if you're trying to

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relax. I was being tested, gosh, two years ago for my N95 mask. I was a part-time faculty member.

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And so he put the whole hood thing on me and he's like, now take a deep breath in.

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So I did like this. And for those that can watch, you can see my shoulders didn't rise.

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And he's like, no, you need to take a deep breath. I'm like, I did. Like look at my belly.

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Right. No, you need to take a deep breath. And like, was getting really upset at me.

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And I said, well, I will do that with the understanding that's not a deep breath. If you

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require me to do that, but that's not a deep diaphragmatic breath. He's like, just breathe.

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I'm like, okay. So this guy whose whole job is to test how well I breathe with my N95 mask.

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That's another right way to do it.

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Argued with me in front of my students that I didn't know how to take a deep breath.

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And that's his job. Even in that arena, they have arguments about what a deep breath should be.

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And we run into that on this podcast, all that, which is your stories.

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It's crazy.

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When it comes down to how, which one makes you feel better? Okay. Which one makes you feel better?

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Let's start with that. Because your body's not going to lie to you.

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Right. And if you haven't tried it, try it. Sit somewhere quietly, get still, take breaths like

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normal and then go watch a Patrick McEwen video and see how to breathe from the diaphragm and try

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that. And I will tell you, I'll be shocked. You don't, but you'll just feel not sure and everything

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just kind of your whole body relaxes. And if you feel changing, if you feel anxiety,

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that means your nose needs to be cleared. And so let's watch Patrick McEwen's video of how

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there's two different ways to declod the nose. And if you can't do that, then let's get you help.

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If trying to breathe that way is causing you anxiety, there could be a nasal obstruction.

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You could also though have some actually like PTSD that needs to be observed. There could be

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trauma that you don't even realize that's causing you anxiety to breathe. And so let's,

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let's get you help. So going back to what holistic orthodontics is, is that it will also say,

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there are many people that say, oh, you can start this age, you can start this age.

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But reminder that just because you can start at that age, sometimes those patients aren't ready.

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And first you get to deal with what is, what is really agitating the system the most. And sometimes

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these kids don't know how to be calm. They haven't observed it in their house. They haven't observed

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people in their house, nasal breathing, or sitting there and being quiet. Or if they sit there in

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school and be quiet, sometimes that's not rewarded. Right. Sometimes they have to always be so active.

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And now I'm expecting a child to sit in my chair. And I'm going to oftentimes invade the only way

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that they've known how to breathe. I'm going to go into their mouth. There are problems. And in the

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past, there used to be different techniques. Either the parent would try to overpower their child

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through fear, shame, or the provider using fear, shame tactics to force that child to go through

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different procedures. Right. But you got to meet them where they are. This is back to what's the

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root cause that goes, then again, why you call it holistic. And let's see what the patient can handle.

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And oftentimes, let's get them started with something like the myelmunchie, with the myelbrace,

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because they're not ready yet even to work with a trained myelfunctional that ever sets

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trained with a little one. They might not be ready for that intensity yet. Right. Give them

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some stepping stones. And I have run into the parents, them getting very upset because, well,

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but they need the expansion right now. I've heard it. I've done my research.

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Okay. I see you and you're worried. And prior to starting the podcast, I was telling Rebecca,

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I'm like, okay, thank you for allowing me to share on my ultimate mission, which is to empower

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caregivers and patients. So I don't use very many statistics. There are so many awesome

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practitioners that are out there sharing that. And I love that that raises awareness.

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And oftentimes we'll get parents to take that next step. But I also understand sometimes it can

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invoke shame and fear. And what my true calling is, is to help patients and caregivers get through

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that hurdle of shame and fear, because it keeps us locked up. And understanding that with the

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holistic approach, I am going to have some conversations of ultimately trauma comes with a

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word with different thoughts with it. But we need to understand that trauma is just anything that

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our body can't handle at that time. If you've ever hit your knee against a coffee table,

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one day, darn it, I need to move that coffee table. But another day, if you've had a bad morning,

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because you didn't sleep well, and you got up, and kids are screaming at you, and you're late for

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work, and then you hit that table, it can hurt all day, mom. And then you're mad at yourself,

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because you didn't move the coffee table. Like, oh, it's the same thing. It's the same knee.

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But it's what your body couldn't handle that day, because you'd already reached that threshold.

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Right. It's just one more thing. And each kid has a different threshold. Each patient,

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all of us have a different threshold. And sometimes what happened to, with the child's

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history, you need to first address some trauma. And I don't mean trauma, like the horrible things

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that you can see on TV. I mean, sometimes all those nights of poor sleep, it was just, it was a lot

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on the child being told you should be able to sleep and the child can't sleep. Let's first just

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let it go. Yeah. Let's let all, all of what happened in the past go. Let's acknowledge the things like,

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okay, this provider wasn't helpful in our journey. Let's let them go. We can address it, get back

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to them and form them when the time is right. But right now, just let it go and look to the future.

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Right. Start from here and go forward. Yeah. And so that's the other part of the holistic approach,

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because getting mad isn't going to get you anywhere. It's going to keep you stuck and it's going to

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keep you in that shame because you're getting mad because you ultimately feel shame that you trusted

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somebody who really trusted them and it ended up not working. Right. Right. And if we look really

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deep, sometimes we're like, oh, I kind of didn't feel so great about that provider, but I kept going

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there and we need to be OK with that inner voice and it's OK. Listen to the voice and we've all,

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we've all ignored it. Yep. I was that mom. It took it took my son having night tears at six months.

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I kept going to what was supposed to best in our area, pediatric. I love the fact that

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the pediatric pediatric office, you could call them at any time because there was like four providers.

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Now, the first month he was there almost every week, he had to be on IV antibiotics after birth.

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And so he had to be seen. He was seen throughout that whole month.

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And at the month check, when he didn't gain any weight, I had a bottle thrusted in my hand

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and told you and your child cannot leave until he drinks this entire bottle of formula.

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Yeah.

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And I kept going for another five months. I kept going, even though during that first month,

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prior to the formula bottle shoved into my hand, I was told that my worries of my son's heavy

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breathing was that you're a geriatric mom who worries too much. Go home and enjoy your child.

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I kept going. But until six months when he was having his first night tear,

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I immediately call me, I need to get in. So I called our office and I called another office

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that thankfully a colleague had talked about her in passing. She said, you know what,

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this pediatrician actually asks her patients if they brush their teeth.

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And I go, oh, well, that's a breath of fresh air. Yeah. Wow. I like that. That's great. So I called

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at the time I was practically a startup. So I, we got in first to our regular pediatrician.

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Becca, can you guess what he told us? Yeah, he'll grow out of it. Go home. You're worrying too much.

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Don't worry about it. Yeah. Any of those. Yeah. He'll grow out of it by four or five years old.

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He won't remember it. And when I said, well, but my husband and I do, he's like, just grab a beer.

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Oh, God.

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You're listening to airway first, the podcast from the Children's Airway First Foundation.

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You can find out more about CAF and our mission to fix before six on our website at

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children's airwayfirst.org. The CAF website offers tons of great resources for both parents

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and medical professionals. In our parents portal and clinicians corner, you can find educational

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and informational content, including videos, blogs, our recommended reading list, comprehensive

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medical research, podcasts, events, parent support, and educational opportunities.

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Parents are also encouraged to join the airway huddle, our Facebook support group,

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which was created for parents of children with airway and sleep-related issues.

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You can access the airway huddle support group at facebook.com backslash groups backslash airway huddle.

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Are you interested in being a guest on the show? Then shoot us a note via the contacts page on our website

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or send us an email directly at infoatchildrensairwayfirst.org.

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As a reminder, this podcast and the opinions expressed here are not a medical diagnosis.

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If you suspect your child might have an airway issue, contact your pediatric airway dentist

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or pediatrician. And now let's jump back into today's podcast.

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For those that don't know what a night care is, my experience is with an infant.

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It's different if as your child gets older, but either way, it's when the child is actually

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inconsolable. So the child, it's different than a nightmare or dream because the child can sometimes,

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depending on age, might get out of bed. They can move and if you try to comfort them, it makes it

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worse. And then they come out of it and not really understanding what's going on because

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now you're trying, now it is okay to hold them. But then they're disoriented because they don't

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know what just happened. But their body, like for my infant, was just crying and screaming and heaving.

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And that's a lot of stress on a body and then feeling, oh, because your body remembers that.

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Yes, it does. By the way, it's a great book. The body remembers. We'll put that link in there

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because it's a great book. And you as the parent, you're going to remember trying to console your

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child and not being able to console them. So we went to the other, to the new practice. Okay.

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And within 10 seconds, she's like, what are you doing about his head shape? Because he

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started to have a little bit of head flattening because of his torticolus that he was getting

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physical therapy for. She's like, oh, I think he's got, he's either got a lip tie or a tongue

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tie, maybe both, maybe. We started talking about low vitamin D levels, his probiotics,

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because he had been on the IV antibiotics. We'd had trouble nursing. Now we went to

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Northwestern, which is the best hospital in my area. No conversation about how to help my babies

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gut microbiome after being on IV antibiotics an hour after more.

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Just surprising. I was a new mom. I could be shamed. Yeah, like, oh, I should have thought about this.

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But I didn't think about it. And his life started to drastically change from small things that were

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done same day, starting to month vitamin D three that day, I started him on the probiotics that

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day started bathing him in Epsom salt baths that day. Now he still had some night tears. We had

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some things that needed to be worked out. So I just I share that story to let any caregiver, any

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patient themselves, if you don't have children, that reminder that that little voice isn't always

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easiest because you have to give up other stuff. I had to give up the comfort of this practice. I

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had four doctors that could call it anytime. I had to give up the comfort that everybody else took

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their kids to and they could understand and give me pros and cons like, oh, you should go see this

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one for this question. And usually it's that comfort that's the hardest to give up.

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But on the other side of comfort is growth. Yep. And that goes for practitioners and parents.

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And I was about to say it also transcended from your personal life into your practice,

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which is why and I'd like to talk about that just a little bit. Your practice is very different.

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It's very unique, I should say. It's not just because of the airway focus and the holistic

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approach you take. What else makes it different? Well, I as of last December, 2023, I was finally

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able to close the doors on my private practice and solely focus on getting this approach to as

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many people as possible. So I had started a startup. We've gotten through COVID. I'd had our second

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child right before COVID. I should just say the pain, I'm not great. I'm sorry. I apologize.

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I'm trying to be better about that. And then I realized, wow, I'm putting so much into this,

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but I can only see so many people one to one. And I need more of me to my kids who ultimately

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need the best of me every day. And I realized having my own kind of limited me.

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Because again, I could only see so many. Whereas how can I get this to more caregivers? Because

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ultimately they're going to be the ones that change because they're going to be asking.

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And how can I get to more providers that once they see it, but then sometimes they're like,

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I don't know what to do with it. And orthodontists, especially at that time, were like, I don't really

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want to do this at all. And we had a lot of general practitioners that were like, I've got to do this.

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Because a lot of times they had had it for themselves, or most likely their own children.

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So I'm like, I'm gonna figure out a way that I can help other practices, especially holistic

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dental practices, that they get to see the kids, they have that no like trust factor.

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But so many general dentists, they're really good at what they do, right?

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And typically the training in orthodontics in school is so little. And then they're looking

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at spending so many weekends and investing so much into something that they're not very comfortable

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with. Because it's very different from the restorative needs of their patients.

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And they're left with this in between, like, I really need to do this, but I don't really feel

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comfortable. What do I do? And I would love to help them. And so I started being able to do that and

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start going in there so then I can serve as someone that can actually initiate the orthodontic

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department if they need me to initiate that, they don't have that. Some have a small orthodontic

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department where it's in visible line, it could be that six months smiles, but growing it and taking

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that approach differently so that they can focus on like, Oh, well, I already know some of this.

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And if I just shift the way I'm thinking about it, I can offer these benefits with it too.

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And then being there to talk with the patients when they need me to, I can be there, you know,

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to ask questions I've had the doctors send pictures like I haven't seen this before,

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what's going on. Like, Oh, here, this, this is common. If one of the most common things,

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so parents listen, one of the most common problems when you have a patient going through expansion

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is what they're eating and not getting out of their gums or their teeth.

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That can lead the patient either like them playing with the things in their mouth,

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because they want to get it out. But they don't want to tell you because you might find out that

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they ate popcorn, eating the popcorn that shell up underneath the gums, but no mom because they

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don't want to get in trouble. Right. Right. Or, Oh, I did eat all those sour patch kids and now

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things are poking me. Oh, but I can't tell the doctor this, I can't tell my parents this. So

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I'm just gonna say I don't know what happened. And then it leads to all these things. Well,

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this shouldn't have happened. Well, no, yeah, it shouldn't have happened. But they're doing things

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that they're not feeling comfortable telling you. So it's how you question them. Right.

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And so that's what I get to do now. I get to work out of different offices and

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kind of help them as needed. I'm also working in an office where I do run, I'm the only orthodontist

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that I'm not helping another general practitioner there. I am transforming the department where

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they are permitting me to talk about my functional therapy with patients. It's brand new to this

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DSO. And I have so much pride in them that they, I am very thankful for this opportunity.

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And very grateful for seeing DSO is kind of shifting gears. So that's where I'm really,

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I'm really grateful for it because I do know now I'm able to make a bigger impact.

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Yeah. Yeah. And I love that. And you touched on this a little bit, but something we don't hear a

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lot of, how does myofunctional therapy work with orthodontics? I mean, we've talked about it from

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the dental side, but not from the orthodontic side. Well, it helps get to that root cause.

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Now, I love my myofunctional therapist and I will say,

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sometimes I think the burden that's put on them is way too heavy because the four goals of myofunctional

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therapy, lips together, tongue up, proper swallowing and nasal breathing. That's a lot to put on one

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provider. So those are the goals. And I remind the patients that your myofunctional therapist is

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kind of the quarterback for the team to meet all four goals. I'm like, that therapist is going to

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help you and it's going to give you exercises to support those. But if there's barriers to that,

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that exercises are not going to help with, that is on you. So there's going to be a need for

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collaboration outside of just ortho and myofunctional therapy because if they can't breathe through their

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00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:35,280
nose, that therapist can't get them nasal breathing. Right. Right. So sometimes I feel like those

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those four goals should be the four goals of all like health care. And we understand that

383
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myo is the one that can help with the integration. Everybody and we're back to that again, right?

384
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:54,640
You're taking this holistic approach where it's not just the sort that on us on an island

385
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:01,120
and the pediatrician on this island, we're all on the same island together. Yes. With the myofunctional

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00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:08,800
therapist and the dentist and whoever else we need. Because I've had patients. I went through myo.

387
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:15,840
I'm like, well, but what did you do to really make sure that you can nasal breathe? If you

388
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:22,480
still have all those glade plugins and you're never opening up the doors in your house, what are you

389
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,360
doing to support that nasal breathing? I mean, there are so many things that go into it. And if

390
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:35,120
you have that obstruction, but you don't want to see the ENT again, just because you went through

391
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:40,480
myofunctional therapy doesn't mean that that therapist can get you to all four goals. If you

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00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:46,960
don't again, gets the root cause of why? Right. Again, because myofunctional therapist isn't going,

393
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:54,400
well, some might do revisions on oral restrictions if needed. Right. So there's,

394
00:45:54,400 --> 00:46:01,040
it's not this one and done. It's not just myofunctional therapy and orthodontics. I do tell my patients

395
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:10,160
that if they can only choose one to first start with myofunctional therapy. Okay. And the reason is

396
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:19,120
because it gets them more empowered because they can actually feel what is a struggle for them.

397
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:24,800
They can see what they should be doing, right? The therapist can show them how to do the

398
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,600
lingual palatal section where they put the tongue up through for the mouth. It's also called the cave.

399
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:38,560
And if they're struggling, they can, they can see it. The reason also for this, because when I start

400
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:45,360
to move the jaws, when I start to widen them, they see what I can do and they're not understanding

401
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:54,560
that maintaining that is on them. They're relying on an appliance and a force system that I can put

402
00:46:54,560 --> 00:47:02,080
in that I'm trained to do. And it's great. I love the fact that we are able to do this. I mean,

403
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:09,920
my job is incredible. I can move teeth and jaw. And you don't have to be under. And change blood.

404
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:15,760
Yes. You don't have to be hospitalized unless you're obviously needing orthodontastic surgery.

405
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:24,320
But we can do these things. But again, we are relying on externals. If you can first see what

406
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:30,240
you can do, you're going to be more empowered to then maintain what I can help facilitate your body

407
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:37,040
to do with expanders, braces, etc. Yeah. Well, and this seems like a good time to bring this up

408
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:44,160
because you have this video, which I will put in the show notes for people about shooting yourself.

409
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:50,640
And just I know people might think I just said something else, but it's what you should have

410
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,960
done or what others think you should do. So that's what I'm saying. I'm saying shooting.

411
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:06,160
How do we as parents and I would and I would think it would apply to providers as well. But

412
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:13,600
I'm just going to look at it from a parent's perspective. How do we shift away from this whole

413
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:20,560
shooting thing and start to follow our intuitions? Trust yourselves.

414
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:30,640
There are a few reminders sometimes that we know more than what we give ourselves credit.

415
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:39,440
But we know so much about our child. And I say that and I understand there are so many different

416
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:51,440
ways to be a parent, so many ways. And you know your child. And so I honor that. And listeners,

417
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:56,000
I understand that your situation might be different than mine. I share with you that I

418
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:04,880
gave birth to my son, but that doesn't make me any more in touch with my son than a parent that

419
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:14,400
adopted a child from halfway across the world. You know your child. You also know yourself.

420
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:27,200
And the input that you have is needed and should be asked for. You have gone through the scientific

421
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:34,480
method on your child without knowing it. There's six things for the scientific method. You ask a

422
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,320
question about what you're observing. You do your background research. You construct a hypothesis.

423
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:47,120
You experiment that hypothesis. You analyze the data. And then you communicate it. You've done that

424
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:52,800
because no person comes with the set. You might have read these great books that are out there

425
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,920
that say your child should go and take a nap from 11 to this time. And then you get them up and you

426
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:05,120
do all this and you get them back in bed. But we're not robots. And then you've decided, okay, well,

427
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:10,400
we got this going on and this going on. And then you start to see, well, if I put my child to bed

428
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:16,320
earlier than 11, the child might lay there for a while. If you're co-sleeping, might play with

429
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:24,960
you for a little while and then go to sleep. But if you wait till 12, they became overly tired.

430
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:31,440
You've done this since you tried to get them to sleep. Right. From this department. And every child

431
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:37,600
is different, too, because I have two what I did for one. The second one just kind of it's almost

432
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,840
as if she looks at you like, okay, mom, because she knows, like, I'm not doing it that way.

433
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:48,800
Every child is different. So you have to adjust. Exactly. I love that. You're game on mom. Oh,

434
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:55,280
yeah. Oh, she was. Yeah. We're going to test you out because you thought this was going to be easier.

435
00:50:55,280 --> 00:51:03,120
Exactly. Yeah. And so you've done little experiments. You've done that with food.

436
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,800
Okay. You may not have known it. You may not have said, okay, I'm just going to think,

437
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:13,760
should I take away all gluten? But you've probably done like, oh, I gave them ice cream right before

438
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:19,200
bed last night. That didn't seem to work out so well. So maybe if I move the ice cream actually

439
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,800
to this time and we just don't have a night, we don't have nighttime snacks. Let's see how that

440
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:30,960
is. You've done this so often. You've tested so many things without knowing it.

441
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:39,520
That if your provider's not asking for your input, then you may want to find a provider or

442
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:47,360
ask them, can I tell you? Because again, that provider might be used to patients not wanting

443
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:54,160
to share information. Yesterday, I had a patient that it was so nice. She easily shared her whole

444
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,760
sleep history with me, her medication list, everything. I'm like, thank you. Thank you for

445
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:07,360
trusting me without you hadn't even met me yet. And you wrote all of that down. And I want to honor

446
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:14,720
you because it's not easy to share all that with someone that you don't know. That's true.

447
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:21,040
And there are many providers out there that don't get all the list of medications. I love

448
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:25,600
talking to optometrists because the work I do can really help positively impact vision.

449
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:31,520
But optometrists are often treated the same way as dentists, often treated the same way as chiropractors.

450
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:38,480
Like, oh, why does that doctor need to know that information? But it's all connected. Yes.

451
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:48,080
And your physician is not going to call us and tell us. If you don't tell us, we won't know what

452
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:57,600
you're on. So the shooting yourself. It is one of my most proud things to share because

453
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:05,440
it empowers you when you start doing what you know is right. And at first, you might not be

454
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:11,680
fully confident. You might be like, I think it's right. But then take a minute. You don't have to

455
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:17,360
you don't have to do it right now. Most things we feel like once we get scared, we hear we got to

456
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:24,960
take action right now. Most things you don't have to. Right. If your kid's choking, you take action

457
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:29,600
right then. But there's not any doubt of like, oh, you should help your child and they're choking.

458
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,920
Right. Right. But if your child, if you're looking at your child's teeth and you're like,

459
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:42,400
man, they are really crooked. I just, I don't know yet. Do some more research. Feel some things out.

460
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:48,560
So go back, listen to some more calf podcasts. Look at their resources. They've got lots of great

461
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:53,520
books on there. Do your research and then you'll find what resonates with you and follow that.

462
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:00,960
I think that's brilliant. And it's usually I ask my guests at the end of an episode,

463
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:06,400
I turn the floor back over for the final word and was actually a really good final word. But

464
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:13,600
is there more that you could add to that for the final word? Well, this might seem a little off

465
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:21,920
topic, but it really goes back to everything. Okay. Listeners, viewers, I know for the most part,

466
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:32,640
I don't know you, but I truly believe in every single one of you. And you are enough.

467
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:42,240
You are enough of a parent. You are enough of a daughter, son, mother, father, co-worker,

468
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:49,040
educator, whatever is how you serve people because they don't want to say your job,

469
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:57,440
because it's all how we serve. You are enough and you are so deserving to feel good every day.

470
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:08,880
So if I can be of help, I limit my one on one time with colleagues and one on one time with

471
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:14,640
caregivers because I, like I said, I've chosen to spend as much time as I can with my kids, but

472
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:23,360
also making a big impact. But let me know, reach out and I would love to support you

473
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:28,720
and what you're doing because if you're listening to this podcast, then you're on such a great journey

474
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:37,520
and you are deserving. You are enough and so is your child. Thank you for that. Thank you so much.

475
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:41,920
And thank you for everything you shared with us today. Absolutely my pleasure. Thank you so much

476
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:49,280
for having me. Thanks again to today's guest, Dr. Catherine Murphy for sharing her medical insight

477
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:57,200
and airway journey and to each of you for listening to today's episode. If you're new to our podcast,

478
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,280
please don't forget to subscribe. And if you enjoyed today's episode, leave us a review

479
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:07,200
or comment telling us about what you enjoyed most. You can stay connected with the Children's Airway

480
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:14,880
First Foundation by following us on Instagram, Facebook, X, LinkedIn, and YouTube. Parents can

481
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:21,920
also join us via our Facebook support group, the Airway Huddle app, facebook.com, backslash, groups,

482
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:28,320
backslash, airwayhuddle. You can find tons of great content for parents and medical professionals

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00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:34,480
on our Parents Portal and Clinicians Corner on our website at childrensairwayfirst.org.

484
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:39,520
If you'd like to be a guest or have an idea for an upcoming episode,

485
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:45,440
shoot us a note via the contacts page on our website or send us an email directly at info at

486
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:52,800
childrensairwayfirst.org. And finally, thanks to all the parents and medical professionals out there

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00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,960
that are working to help make the lives of kids around the globe just a little bit better.

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Take care, stay safe, and happy believing everyone.