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Hi everyone, and welcome back to Airway First, the podcast from the Children's Airway First

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Foundation. I'm your host, Rebecca St. James. My guest today is Molly Peterson, wife, mother of two,

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and photographer from Virginia. Molly's joining us on the podcast today to share her story with all

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of you in an effort to share knowledge and experience and provide a little bit of support for all of

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you out there, no matter where you are in your child's airway journey. So let's jump right into the

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special parent-to-parent episode of the Airway First podcast with today's guest, Molly Peterson.

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All right, great. Thanks so much for joining us today, Molly. Thank you. It is so good to be here

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with you, and I appreciate you taking time out to share your story and your knowledge with our

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parent audience. Yeah, thank you for having me. Of course. So before we get started, I guess the

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best way to start our conversation is I would ask you just to share a little bit about your

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airway journey with your child, you know, how did it start, and where are you on that journey today?

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Okay. Well, everything I have learned in the last three years, and even the last six months, because

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it seemed to the information seemed to take a long period. I've been getting blips about airway

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health for 20 years, even longer, with my dad's apnea, for example. But I was having, you know,

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like slow little drop-ins of information, but it never came together the way that it has significantly

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in the last three years, two years, last six months. It seems that the information is just like

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compacting and coming in at full speed. And then I'm trying to process, and it's fascinating and

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really interesting. So my husband comes home, and I'm like, guess what I learned about today. So I

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guess I wish I'd known this all, obviously, before our oldest son was born about 70 years ago.

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With him, you know, he was bottle fed from the start for a few reasons. And so I had some friends

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that kind of, you know, you'd hear about the term tongue tie, right? But I didn't know enough

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about it. And I didn't think he, quote unquote, had an issue. And I know it's harder to catch when

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you're bottle fed. But he had in hindsight now, he had several, I think I casually mentioned it to a

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pediatrician, I was like, oh, no, no, he's fine, right? Okay. Okay, he means my first and you're in

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that blur of the first. Sure. Right. But he in hindsight now he had signs. He would have night

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terrors. His nervous system was pretty dysregulated early on, like a really happy kiddo, but would

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wake up all through the night. I mean, we were going through so many bottles and people say he

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doesn't need bottles. He doesn't need that many. You're like, you don't understand. If he doesn't

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get this bottle, it's, it's a rage, right? If anyone's ever been through that. And so he also, he

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didn't have a very high and narrow palate, but I was starting kind of learning about that. The only

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way I would could get him to sleep for an app was I had to take over a car ride. And he would sleep

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better when he was with us and not there were just little blips, very full diapers overnight,

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very full. And, and I didn't learn that the correlation with that until our second one was

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born. And he, how far apart are they? They are three years apart. Okay. All right. So when our

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second son was born, again, nursing struggles, this time, the signs were much more obvious, at

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least to me, very high and narrow palate. He seemed to have restriction. But again, I went to

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a lactation consultant, five different pediatricians, and they were all like, no, no, no, no, no. You

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don't know what you're talking about. So very light sleeper, very also night terrors at a very

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young age and some that were very intense and would go on for a very long time. I never noticed

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with either of them sleep apnea type stopping and breathing. But I still thought there's something

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going on here. There's, there's a lot more going on here. And this was the mom instinct, right?

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Yeah. And there was, and this was four years ago. So I feel like especially in the last six months

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a year, and maybe it's just that I'm way more aware of it now is the information really is now

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flooding in, I think, to make those connections between the emotional health and the nervous system

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and the airway and the lack of oxygen. And so I thought we stopped trying to nurse. He was supplemented

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with a bowel, but we stopped trying to nurse with the second one at three months. I, I tried

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everything. And it was becoming, it was stressful for him. It was stressful for me. When he'd stick

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out his little tongue, it was almost like a heart because it was so restricted. But yet I didn't,

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I was, I didn't know anything, right? And so I kind of gave up at that point. You know,

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I was three months old. I've got a toddler. It was the time when the world kind of started to

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fall apart. And it socially for a while. And so I was also more isolated than ever before. And

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so it was probably, I think when he was almost a year old, and like, okay, we'll just, we'll do the,

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we'll do the bottle. But he had this similar thing with the very heavy diapers overnight.

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He also, he would go through many, many bottles overnight. And it was that same pattern in my

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husband, I was going, what is going on here? What are we doing wrong? You know, they weren't sleeping

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well. And we are a family who is really mindful about, you know, the types of food and getting

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outside a lot. And I'm, we tried, we thought all the tricks. And we just, this doesn't make sense.

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But then we started also noticing some of the behavioral stuff. And I know that I know that

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some of this behavior stuff is just simply that age. The brain is developing and the nervousness

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is developing, everything's developing. But again, I was feeling those connections of,

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I've, there's something deeper here. There's something more here. And, and again, what am I doing wrong?

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Right? Well, that's not momgill, right? We all have that. It's our fault, of course.

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It's my fault that my kids don't listen. But yet, but yet they were listening and I,

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I mean, and I was trying to listen to them. I'm fortunate I've been able to be home with them.

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So I kind of joke that I have had this Jane Goodall ask front row seat to them and maybe

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hyper observe them more than they all would like. And not in a pushy way, but just like, oh, interesting.

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So it was probably around when our youngest was about a year or so old, I found there was an

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Instagram page, I think. And it noted that and it taught, it was taught because I was looking down

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the tongue tap tongue type path more. But I still I thought it was too late. But something

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blipped up across my path that said it's not too late. I mean, there are adults that get these

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things revised. And I thought, whoa, wait a minute here. So that reignited that journey that I had

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and already sort of been on. And I reached out to a, I'm one of those like, once I, once I feel

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that resonance and get excited, oh, like light bulb, I dive full in and I can and it and again,

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it's like rapid fire processing. So I reached out to an oral myofunctional therapist. This is

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when we lived in a different state. And she had been dental hygentists for, you know, decades.

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And decide and was seen enough of this, this pattern with children that that's where she

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wanted to support them. So we took a man, he was, I think he was about a year and a half. And she's,

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and she said, it's not too late. And he had so many of the signs. It was so

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validating to have that. Yes, you know, the recess jaw and the high and narrow palate and his,

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his turbinates at that time hadn't swelts swelled up, but they did about six months later.

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And so that caused more restriction. And then I was learning about how that, how that tongue to the

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roof of the palate, it suddenly, like I said, all started to come flooding in.

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We moved shortly after that away from that state. So I wasn't able to continue with her, but I knew,

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okay, we're on a path now. And now, now we're going to figure this out. So

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in my impatience, it's taken longer than I would like. But again, what I have learned in the last

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six months has been, I'm so glad I was able to wait for that information. I read the first book I

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read was a breath by James Nestor. And that connected so many more dots. And I needed to understand it

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on a deeper level. And then it was not only the first book, but also the first book that I read

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understand it on a deeper level. And then it was not only connecting dots for my children

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and myself and then my childhood, but then also my husband, there were things we've been together

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for 22 years. And there have been things with him, I have just been chasing symptom wise that I

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can't get a hold of. And now I was going to ask about that because you often hear it in families,

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it was and and he and our youngest son are almost like little carbon copies of these

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little ones, a carbon copy of him. And so it was neat to be able to see that correlation say,

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oh my goodness, there it is. And so again, my impatience kind of kind of frustrates.

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Sure. Like right now, now that I know. So our oldest since he was less severe, you know, and he

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had by that time he had started tea grinding tea to okay, well, magnesium helps at night,

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which it did, but it didn't fix it, right? Right. So I did. He did have a buckle release and a

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tongue tie because he wasn't as severe. At the same time, we did some myofunctional therapy

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because I always knew and there was so no information to be found for me at that time.

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It was piecing all of these things together and then trying to make the plan and I felt like I

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was leading the charge a little too much because with with the proof with like the dentist, for

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example, she was very aware of it. But I will do I need a myofunctional therapist? Well, you could.

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And I thought, I feel like we should. But then it was finding one and getting on our waitlist and

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and financially that all it all cost me insurance hardly covered any of the tongue tie release.

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So we did do some of that. But then I thought, okay, and it did it cleared up his it cleared

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up his grinding at night and it lessened some of his symptoms. But but still we were having some

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other struggles and I can get to that later. But then with the younger one, I thought he's much

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more pronounced or severe. And I thought if we just snip that tongue tie, because everyone was

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saying just just snip it. He's not going to know how to use that tongue. And I have to create another

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problem and I don't want him to you know, if he already is struggling to breathe at night at you

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know, at that point, he was kind of sleeping up propped in my arm because if he's down, you know,

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he's not going to be able to sleep. And I thought I don't I if we're already not getting very much

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sleep, I can't get less sleep because I'm worried that his tongue is going to flop back.

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Right. Right. Like I need another stress. So, so what that paused his tongue tie release and I'm

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really glad that it did and he has not yet had one that then sent us down a journey of

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of working with a holistic dentist and getting he's our youngest has had a CT scan. Yes, his airway

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is compromised. He has had a sleep study and they did not find apnea thankfully and you know, I have

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a little four year old hooked up for a sleep study. That was an interesting night and he handled it.

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Sure. Oh, good. And that was and that was our holistic dentist with that it's our airway center

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dentist had said, let's do all of those things because that will determine do we have other

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things going on and it may help insurance cover some of this. They did not find apnea but I said,

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well, what about sleep disorder breathing and those doctors have never called me back to talk to

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me about that. So I've just figured, well, okay, whatever. It's kind of like they don't need to

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tell me I already know we he's clearly struggling to breathe and night and then we have seen two ENTs

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and they both noted that he didn't seem to have the swollen adenoids and tonsils. And I wouldn't

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have been on a path to just have them removed without further exploration. But they they did say,

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well, let's just try flownase and I thought that sure we could. But everything I've read and I

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started asking about the tongue and the air, everything that I've learned and neither were

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willing to have that conversation with me. They just wanted to try flownase and move along one

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actually and I'll say this, he actually went so far as to say, well, if neither of you are sleeping,

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I think you should just ferberize him and he'll figure it out and then you'll sleep better.

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And you could hear the you could feel the oxygen just suck out of the room at that moment. I thought,

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you know, I'm not a combative person. I'm really willing to talk about this. We're done here.

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Yeah. Yeah. And then he got a back pale. Oh, I'm not trying to tell you how to pair it. I thought,

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are you kidding me? Yeah. So so it's been that part's been frustrating, but almost

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validating to like, nope. So I so why haven't you you gone through the with the tongue tie really

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shit? He we're on the path with him. So he hasn't had myofunctional therapy in a while. We've been

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doing stuff at home. We've been using tools at home. We've tried the munchie. He's got the myospots.

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He is breathing more through his nose. We haven't done the tongue tie release it because I just yet

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with the holistic dentist, we have talked about upper and lower alf expanders.

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Mm hmm. The struggle there is is financially that's more of an investment than I can do.

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Yeah. And I don't know if you're aware of how much it is, but it's I was having to say,

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okay, well, we're gonna have to pick one of the boys and only he'll get this help and maybe

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we'll work on the other one later, but the other one's already losing teeth. And so I know like,

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even the jaw growth, you know, it's he's so his is but I was I was choosing the four year old

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because he's the one that's not sleeping very well. So or so I've had a lot of these start

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stops, start stops, but where we are right now is I have recently found a cranial osteopath

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physician and she's been working on she's only worked on them both twice, but they both

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love her. The youngest one said just yesterday, when do we get to go back to Dr. Tracy because

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she helps me feel better. Oh, wow. So I know with him, it's one of those I think chicken or the egg

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and cascade effect scenarios that I'm learning is and this won't be the case for everybody,

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but it could be did the nervous system, dysregulate the airway and the airway dysregulate

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the nervous system or is it both and there's just so much overlap and that's kind of where I am with

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both of them. So I'm working on that with the cranial osteopath to help that autonomic nervous

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system and you know, with the with everything in the head that the muscles and the ligaments and the

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and the bones and the Vegas Vegas, I was gonna say the Vegas nerve. Yeah, especially so and all of

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that. It's so beautiful how it's all connected. So we are going to her and then I did because of the

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expense of the expanders, which we may be in that boat someday. But it's not today. I recently signed

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up with the tooth pillow, as I was learning about that. And so I thought, okay, well, that's more of

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an entry point that we can do. And suddenly we can do it home. And there's a whole virtual

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app system. So I can help both boys right now. We're working on the nervous system. And let's see

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where we are in six months to, you know, one year to and see if that helps regulate things. And I

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for the first time in a long time, I'm finally feeling like we got this. Yeah, we got this.

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We have a plan battle if we have a plan. Oh, yeah. But we're finally here. Yeah. And so the younger

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one since he's been going to that cranial acupath, the first night he went to her, he came home,

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and he slept 11 hours breathing through his nose. Wow. If that child had not gone to that doctor that

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day, I probably would have woken him up taking an emergency room. I think it's something was wrong

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because we have never had that. And then this after the second appointment, it wasn't the first day,

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he was a little grumpy the first day after the appointment. But the next day was,

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it was Christmas Eve. And he fell asleep at 530. And this is a kiddo who is involved in everything.

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He likes to, he likes to clean, he likes to organize, he likes to play him. And he's only four.

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But he fell asleep on Christmas Eve. He missed the dinner he made. He missed the cookies for Santa.

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He missed all of that because he slept for 14 hours. Oh, my goodness. And people may say that

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that, oh, it might be a coincidence. I don't think at all. He was finally coming down. And we talk so

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much about, and I think it's interesting, I'm not talking at them. It's like we're learning together

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and I'm sharing what I'm learning. We talk so much about the tongue and the breathing and the

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nervous system that like both of them get it. And it's pretty cool. Yeah. So, yeah, we're fine.

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We're finally on a path. And it finally feels like things are calming down. And is it is sleeping

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consistent now towards more consistent? Yeah, more consistent. They're both more consistent.

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They both more so, I think our oldest one usually wakes up once a night. But the youngest one is

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waking up less and less and less. And he's so you could tell he's sleeping more soundly when he wakes

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up in the morning. But he's one of the happiest four year olds you're ever gonna meet both of them.

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But we'll say like he's like buddy the elf. He's just hey, he's here. But when he's not sleeping,

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then you've got the Hulk like it is the other and it's it's it's a lot. It's a lot. Well, sure,

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because it's very disruptive. It's so disruptive. And so, I mean, all of the

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I guess and the articles and the I'm so grateful for all of these Instagram accounts and these

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mile functional therapists and that are sharing so much information. And the books I've read,

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I mean, I've read the What was it the the tired child that was a favorite. Yeah, that's a great

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one. For me. So it's just it's really, really neat to have learned about all of this stuff

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and how it's playing out and and even how it not just the emotional but also learning delays and

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learning struggles and how that it's amazing how connected it all is so connected. And I think

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sometimes when I talked to now when I of course when I talked to friends or whoever about I think

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I think sometimes they say like, of course, you're going to think it's connected. I think it is

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connected. It is connected. The more we find out the more it is. It's it's wild. It's wild. Well,

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first, first, I would commend you because you are absolutely what we call the airway mama bear.

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Thank you. That you know, this is we need more of you because this is how we're going to move

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this forward and make these changes. Yeah, you know, you've you've done all this hard work and

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so I absolutely commend you for that for advocating and just staying with it.

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So for people that don't know, I want to go back for just a second. You mentioned the tooth pillow.

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Yeah. So for parents that don't know what that is,

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sure. Will you explain a little bit about that?

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Yeah. So for what I understand, ours is in the mail. I think it's supposed to come here.

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It's supposed to arrive tomorrow. So what I've learned through the website, the red site is

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really comprehensive. There's a lot of information there and a lot of it will put a link to it.

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Yeah. And that's what I also was so impressed because as you probably can gather already,

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I like a lot of information and I'll ask a lot of questions and I have to understand it. And

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so I really appreciated all the information they put out there. It's a device that they wear. It

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looks like an athletic mouth guard. And I think it has like a lip to teach the tongue where to rest.

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So it's not just in there, but it also has a place to help with the tongue.

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And they'll wear it. They're supposed to wear it for an hour every day and then ideally all night long.

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And the before and after is obviously I don't know these people, but the before and after photos

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I've seen and there's a parent Facebook group is people are excitedly sharing about, oh my goodness,

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look at how fast my child's palate is expanding and the art is. So it's to help the tongue learn to

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stay up at the top of the palate. Right, where it's supposed to be.

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Yeah. And it's not going to hold it there for them, but it will help them and then that will help

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naturally expand that archway instead of having a device in there, you know, like an owl for a

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mild breath to push it out for them. And like again, we may we may be that route, but I'm

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willing to try this one first. Yeah. So it's we order one for both for both boys and they're

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what's neat because we've been having these conversations as they both ask me, when is our

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tooth pillow coming? So tomorrow it's coming out. Check the tracking. It's coming tomorrow.

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So and I think what's also neat about kids, especially, you know, we since we have so many

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conversations is they want to feel better. Sure. They don't like feeling this way and

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they don't like the feedback they get. I mean, as a parent, you could only be so patient and

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there are some days where it's so intense with my youngest even I say, buddy,

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you stop. You got to back off a little bit, you know, and then we're both cut and then we're

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both. Yeah, right. Then time out for everyone, right? We're gonna break. And that's so I know

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that everyone is just like all of the recipe that we've kind of put together to help our family. Now,

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we still it's still really important to me that we limit screen time and that we, you know, if

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there if there those myos spots have been really neat, there's a little they just dissolve. You

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can get right here. And so if they do have TV time or if I notice that they're kind of tea

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kettle talking, I say it like when the it really goes up and they just not breathing. Oh, yeah.

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Yeah. You're like, that. Hey, do you need a tongue button? Okay. And then if we put on a show, then

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then naturally just digit with it, which helps just take that deep breath. Yeah. And we spend a

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lot of time outside and we're, you know, mindful of all sorts of things that all of that still

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important. Every kid is a recipe, but I don't know if I answered that question about the two

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but it's it's a help. Yeah. Yeah. No, you absolutely did. And then, you know, so

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I think you touched on a little bit of it, but what were some of the biggest hurdles

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that you've had to overcome along this journey? Well, I think

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one of the biggest ones was a mental hurdle of the financial part about so much of it.

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Because it, you know, I absolutely agree that a myofunctional therapist is worth what they're

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charging. Yeah. I mean, I can afford it once a week for each for two kids. Right. That's not

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always covered. And the holistic hero. Again, insurance not in the frustration is in his

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insurance has hardly covered anything for what we've actually what has actually been helpful.

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And so that's always a frustration because you think, oh, there's so many kids who could get help

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if only, right. And so that's a big thing. And then

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because I'm home, I work for myself. So because I'm home, I've been able to invest all of this time

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and energy into the education so I can, you know, understand what we're doing and where we're going.

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And then also the time to get them to any of these appointments. And I think that was another thing

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that I appreciated about the whole tooth pillow process because I'm not going into the dentist

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once a month for adjustments. I'm not going making the myofunctional therapist appointments once a

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week. Right. And then because it's all right there on the app. And that that's huge right now. And I

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understand there are families that are way busier than I am. And I just it's, I know some people

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will say, well, if you need it, it comes down to priorities and sure, that's true. But there are

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only so many hours in the day. Exactly. And we just get and then the capacity and then you

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talk about nervous system dysregulation, then you're more stressed about. Right. Right. You know,

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and in this tooth pillow thing, it's, it's not an exact apples to apples comparison. Yeah. But

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there used to be a time for mental health. The only way you could get help was to go into somebody.

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Right. Well, now we've realized not everybody can get in there. So now we have that online. We have,

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you know, telemedicine because if your kid just has sniffles or I don't know, something's, you

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know, small and you know, or maybe you're a single parent, you can't get them in whatever it is. Now

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we have telemedicine. So to me, that's just another example of how we're adapting medicine

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to treat people where they're at. You know, how can we help people? Yeah, definitely. And it's,

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and it's so, there are so, there are just so many kids. Yeah. So many kids. And I, you know, I,

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I, and I've known for a long time, you know, I mentioned my dad had the apnea or has it. And,

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and so I see down the road where that goes health wise. And, and then

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even I now I, you know, on hindsight, I think back, I had a lot of cavities as a kid. And I

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grew up being like, Oh, it's just, you didn't brush it off or you didn't, whatever. Well, now what

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I'm learning is, is most of it's probably most often not the diet in the sense that yes, brushing

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teeth is important. Yes, nutrient dense foods are important. But it's also like the microbiome and,

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and the air and the pH, the airway and the pH and the mouth breathing. And that's, that was another

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thing I didn't mention with our kids. They were getting early cavities. And I thought, well, hold

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on a minute. Like where my husband's an organic farmer. Like, how are we getting cavities here?

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Right, right. Like, we're doing all, you know, for the most part, there's no perfect system. But

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that, that was another big aha moment for me is, why are they getting these cavities? This doesn't

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make sense to me. And well, because it's breathing through their mouths and, and I'm almost positive

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that plays a majority role in the cavities that they have. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I could see that. Right.

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Because we know, we know that length is there. Yeah, it's absolutely there.

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You're listening to airway first with today's guest, Molly Peterson. You can find out more about

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the Children's Airway First Foundation and our mission to fix before six on our website at

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Children's Airway First.org. The CAF website offers tons of great resources for both parents and

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medical professionals. In our parents portal and clinicians corner sections, you can find

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educational and informational content, including videos, blogs, our recommended reading list,

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comprehensive medical research, podcasts, events, and parent support.

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Parents are also encouraged to join the Airway Huddle, our Facebook support group, which was

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created for parents of children with airway and sleep related issues. You can access the Airway

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Huddle support group at facebook.com backslash groups backslash airway huddle. Are you a medical

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professional or a parent that's interested in being a guest on the show? Then shoot us a note

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via the contacts page on our website or send us an email directly at info at children'sairwayfirst.org.

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As a reminder, this podcast and the opinions expressed here are not a medical diagnosis.

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If you suspect your child might have an airway issue, please contact your pediatric airway

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dentist or pediatrician. And now let's jump back into our very special parent to parent edition

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of the Airway First podcast with today's guest, Molly Peterson.

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So, and then I think it's another interesting kind of frustration along this way. And I imagine

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it's pretty common is the pushback that I've gotten or the dismissal, perhaps, from whether it's

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medical professionals or those that I know kind of like, well, what do you know that kind of a

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where you have to stand up and say like, okay, well, you have not spent hundreds of hours on this.

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I never thought I would, but here I am. And it kind of chose deep. And here we are. Right. Right.

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Right. And, you know, I can tell you first hand, just with my journey as well as, you know, with

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our founder, Andy, once you start down this rabbit hole of reading, and it's so funny too,

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because you mentioned James Nestor's book, which I will put a link for, but he is on our advisory

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board. Okay. I swear that is the gateway book. That is what has started this journey for so many

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people. I believe it. You start with that. And then you end up with, you know, gasp and brave

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parent and the tired child. And it just, it starts building. And yeah, you start seeing more and more

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research and you hear it from different providers. And once you see it and you understand it,

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you can't go back. You can't. There's no way I can go back. No, I have, I say to my husband,

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well, everybody, I think anyone close to me knows Molly has a giant whiteboard in her head

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with lines and connections. And I often send this little, what was it, what they call it,

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Jeff, to of this Charlie Day character. I don't even know what movie it's from. I can

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tell you so you know what I'm talking about. But he's like, you know, when you're solving a case

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and they've got the board up with all of the lines and he's like, yeah. And I said, this is how I

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feel. I'm this guy. Because it is, you can't unsee it. And it's, and I've often said it's this

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beautifully, sometimes tragic web of connection of all of it. Yeah. That's a really great explanation.

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Yeah, it is. It really, it's so, it's so wild to me. And, and I've had some such amazing conversations

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with other moms, especially most recently. Some have sort of been in this, this realm already.

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And we're just now connecting or some are close friends that have gone. Tell me more about what

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you were saying the other day. And that's been really neat. And it's just, again, once you see

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it, you can't unsee it. Yeah, especially when you start uncovering things like depression,

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how it's connected to depression. And, you know, that was the Surgeon General's number one

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task. You know, he, what was it? Two years ago, he put up this huge mandate on it. And

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the way depression has permeated the lives of this youngest generation coming through to me. I mean,

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hey, that's kind of an eye opener. Let's all take a step back and try to figure out

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what's going on. What's going on? I'm not saying it's always the case, but it's so interesting

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when you read all this research and you start to see, you know, it manifests and impacts ADHD

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and you'll see depression and they can't sleep. And it just, oh, it's, it's wild. Yeah, it's wild.

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It is wild. Well, and I also led me through this path when I was doing the nervous system stuff and

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then the delays like and with labels, I'm always I'm hesitant on labels because I think that sometimes

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people over identify, but I said to my husband, well, we seem to have symptoms of this type of

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label over here. So let's kind of move forward as if we do, but I'm going to keep digging. I'm

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going to keep digging and see. And because that can give us some more clues too. But I,

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I was able to, with our oldest was having some learning delays in, in kind of the, the left

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side hemisphere brain work creative, like right side all fired up, ready to go. But the delay is

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in the left side. And so it's been interesting having these conversations too, with his support

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team at school to say, Hey, you know what? I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna put them in a box.

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Not yet. We're not going there. Yeah, I do think and I, but I that, you know, I think we've got

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this airway stuff and this nervous system dysregulation and I think they're tied in and

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maybe some primitive reflexes. I've learned about those. Those are. Yeah. Oh, I'll put a link to

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that podcast too for people that haven't heard that. That's, that's insane. Yeah. It's so awesome.

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And so like, I think this is what we've got going on. And I think you're going to see some big jumps

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from him soon. And they are now seeing jumps. But what was neat is they were receptive to that. I

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don't know if at least they were in my presence, right? I don't, they might think like, Oh man,

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here's this mom, but, and I could be that mom. That's like, Yeah, but once they see it.

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But to be able to write again, and they have access to way more kids than I do to support.

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And that's why I shared it because I thought if, if what I believe, if I believe so strongly that

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this is helping my children, then surely it could help others. It's gonna help others.

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It's gonna help others. And so when I was learning about the, and the primitive reflex that all

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dropped in in the last, you know, handful of months too. A couple months. Yeah. I don't know if you

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know about Dr. Josh Madsen. He's in Iowa. He's doing some really cool work, functional neurology.

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And then Dr. Tony Ebel with PX stocks. He's had some really awesome connections with him. He's a

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neurologically focused chiropractor, but he has a network across the country. And then like I

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mentioned, our cranial osteopath. So I think they're all doing really similar work that are helping

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these children unlock this stuff. And they're starting to find that it's helping to unlock those,

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those labels that have been given those delays that they were, that they were told they're not

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doing fast enough. And various other struggles. And, and I think I know that they all blur and blend.

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And well, and it's that cross functional thing, right? If you can get, and I can say this, you

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know, not as a medical professional, but we have an advisory board full of some of just these amazing

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individuals. And I'll sit in a meeting and listen to them. When you get these cross functional

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groups together in these conversations, and they start piecing things, it's mind blowing. And

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then that's one of the things we advocate for is putting together these teams to work with

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these children. You know, because it's a whole job instead of these siloed approaches.

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Right. Right. Because it's not exactly. And that's, I think that's, because humans were so good at

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saying, well, this is this and this is this. And no, there's no connection. You know, well,

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right. Well, that's not true. Come on. Right. Right. It's all connected.

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Well, and what's interesting, I think, you know, I mentioned, I've been having blitz of this my

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whole life with my dad, but also I have a dear friend who, gosh, 20 some years ago, I met her

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through the horse world. And we were doing chiropractic on the horses. And I, when I was 17,

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00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:07,480
I got certified to do horse massage. I don't do it at all. But even back then, you know, how much

368
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:14,920
more that we, we've done for our pets than our own children ourselves and ourselves. Because I think

369
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:20,120
and people have heard me say this a lot. I think we humans are so cute that we forget that we are

370
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:28,360
nature, right? We are mammals too. So things that we would do for our pets or our livestock or

371
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:34,840
whatever, it's we're, we're delayed to do for ourselves sometimes. Right. Right. Agreed.

372
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:43,960
Catching up. Yeah. So what advice would you give parents, especially those that are just

373
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,200
starting this journey? Maybe, you know, that's why we do these podcasts, right? Yeah. We were

374
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:53,560
trying to reach parents that have an inkling that something's wrong with or not sure what. And,

375
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,800
you know, we're not saying this is exactly what's wrong with your child. So please don't take that

376
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,760
as gospel and run with it. But what kind of advice do you give parents that are just starting this

377
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:09,640
journey? I think, you know, whether it's someone with an invent, it's their first time invent,

378
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:15,960
which I know that time when you're tired and you're probably pretty depleted and your minerals

379
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:22,200
are depleted. So try to boost up your own minerals. That'll help your hormones out of whack.

380
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:29,000
And oh, yeah. Like, I know it's hard. Try to get some good nutrient dense food in you. Find a doula

381
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:35,320
who can even postpartum who can help support you there and find a good team. I think a lot of people

382
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:41,960
spend time on like, oh, what, what crib should we buy or what, you know, all of the toys, right?

383
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,960
Alice should be is like a postpartum doula and make sure you have a good team who will

384
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,560
bring you good nourishing food. So that that would be my first, like if you're

385
00:42:53,560 --> 00:43:00,120
just having an infant, like boost yourself up because you're already stressed and depleted. And I like,

386
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,440
I've been there and it's hard to work through that when you're stressed and depleted. Oh, yeah. It is.

387
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:14,280
It feels impossible. And for some it is. And so, but I think if you feel that there is something deeper,

388
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:21,880
don't give up. It may be really easy to give up. I mean, there are times where I paused and, you know,

389
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:31,160
a question like, well, am I am I crazy here? But you know your child better than anybody. Trust your instincts.

390
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,240
Trust your instincts. And there are so many. And I know some people even have to

391
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:43,960
struggle with even their own partner believing them. And that's right. That's that's not easy.

392
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:52,680
So I think now more than ever, there are so many resources that were not available when even my

393
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,760
four year old was an infant. And if there was, I wouldn't have known where to find it. I mean,

394
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:02,280
I said, I even went to a lactation consultant that I thought would be able to help us. I thought,

395
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,920
well, surely she's going to tell me we have a tongue tie. That's right. She didn't. And that

396
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:14,360
that was a lot of money spent to still come out disappointed. So I yeah, trust your instincts.

397
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:21,480
And there are resources out there. I mean, you all are one of them. And are there any others that

398
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:26,280
that come to mind that would be a great place in your opinion for someone to start besides the

399
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:32,680
calf website? Sure. I mean, I think what I've figured out with the body work, because sometimes,

400
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:40,680
you know, with the tethered tissue, that's that's the fascia system. So sometimes it may not be as

401
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:47,560
severe as needing a tie clipped. Maybe it's you just need to loosen things up. You know, think

402
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:53,720
about even coming out the birth canal or if it's this C section, my youngest was a C section,

403
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:59,320
there's a lot of movement on those soft tissues. When that baby was just like curled up like this

404
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:05,640
for a little while, and suddenly we're like pulling on him. Yeah. It's it's not a gentle process

405
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:13,320
for most kids. And so I think early body work, whether it's a, like a Gillespie cranial facial

406
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:20,600
cranial fascial therapist, Gillespie method, or the PX docs, then, you know, the nervous system

407
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:27,320
based chiropractic. And it's not just PXX, there are other nervous system based chiropractors.

408
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:33,160
And it's not, I think some people go, Oh, a chiro, you know, I've been there, and they really crank

409
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:39,480
on your neck or, or it's different for babies, they're not gonna get it. So different. It's

410
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:47,000
so different. And it's just soft, gentle release. And I, our doctor, our cranial osteopath, she had

411
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:53,800
said, and I loved when she said it, she said, I wish, I wish every labor and delivery room had a

412
00:45:53,800 --> 00:46:00,440
cranial osteopath in that, in that room, raise the baby came out so we can same girl, hold them,

413
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:08,680
release that. And that would set off so many on a good path. And so,

414
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:16,440
and they can get up in there with their thumb and just, and that palette. Yeah, just kind of loosen

415
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:23,960
things up. Yeah, it's yeah. So there, there are a lot of body workers out there who understand the

416
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:34,280
body as a whole. And I, our pediatrician is fairly holistically minded. We've had a lot of great

417
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:40,360
conversations. But again, it's in order to work with him, it's out of pocket, because he doesn't

418
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:45,880
take insurance, because he'll give you an hour, an hour per kid. And that means a lot to me. It

419
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:51,320
means we don't see him very often. And he's available. And not because I mean, my kids are pretty

420
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:59,560
healthy thing, thankfully. And I, we rarely need him. But it's, it's being okay with being outside

421
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:06,760
of that system, the main system, and taking that deep breath and knowing what you know. And sometimes

422
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:12,120
you have to be a little brave and say, well, that doesn't make sense to me. Or, you know, I'm going to

423
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:19,400
read more, but I know it can be hard to stand up to all of that. Yeah. Speaking of brave, you know,

424
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:24,040
I'll put that link to Brave Parent in here too, because that's one of the things that Dr. Maples

425
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:29,240
is talking about, because it is hard. It's hard to be a brave parent right now. It is. There are,

426
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:33,240
there are so many different categories of things that we've got to be brave about,

427
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:42,600
and navigate. And my, you know, my kiddos, I, obviously, I love to talk. But we've been having,

428
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:47,080
even when they're little, like we'd have, we've had some big conversations about stuff. And they,

429
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:53,080
because I think sometimes we don't give kids enough credit for what they can understand.

430
00:47:53,080 --> 00:48:01,320
Yes. And they can take accountability for it with on their own bodies. And when they, you know,

431
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,880
just like with me, once I understand something, okay, like I'm good to go. And I think that's

432
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,120
similar with them is giving them more credit, maybe bringing them in on a little bit more.

433
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:15,800
Sure. Hold space for them. They may not know the words, but if you hold space for them and just

434
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,680
kind of let them express themselves, then again, to your point, you know, your children better

435
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,720
than anyone. So you'll get to know what they're saying. You'll, you'll start to watch their

436
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:36,200
mannerisms and see the changes and yeah. Totally. Yeah. I think that's some of it, you know,

437
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:41,480
so often moms get, it's mostly moms that get to like, oh, you know, you're just going to worry

438
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,560
about that. Oh, you're going to worry about that. And it's, and that, that's, that's been a story

439
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:52,120
for a long time. And I think it's your, we're, we're so in tune to them. And when their little

440
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:58,120
bodies and their nervous systems, this I've described it about my kiddos, when they're both in a

441
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:07,400
spin, one's going this way and one's going this way. And it's, it's like chaotic incoherence of

442
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:13,880
energy. And then I'm trying, I'm in the middle and you try to be the eye of the storm. You try to

443
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:21,400
be the calm spot, but we also feel all of that. And I think that that's what then disregulates

444
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:29,400
us. And it's almost like we need to get with, with help coming up above that as best we can,

445
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:35,480
so we can think clearly to help them. And I know so deeply when one's going one way and one's going

446
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:43,720
the other way, how hard it is to still stay on track and to be the brave parent and say, no,

447
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,920
this isn't just, oh, because they're four and they're seven. This isn't just because

448
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:56,120
there's something deeper going on here. And I, for the first time, in a, in a long time, I feel like

449
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:02,520
we're finally, like I said, we're finally, there is more coherence and they're able to even articulate

450
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:08,120
that more. I mean, a four year old saying, can I go back to that, that one doctor mom, she helps

451
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:13,160
you. Like that's, that's huge. We haven't been, I haven't been about a month since we've been. So

452
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:19,240
right. And just because it's common doesn't mean it's normal. Yes. We need to stop normalizing

453
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:24,200
some of these things. Yes, that's a huge thing too. I, some of the entry conversation I've had

454
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,760
with people are about like, okay, well, your husband snores or your dad snores and they're in

455
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:36,440
jokes like, haha, it's not funny. It's not funny. Yeah. Yeah, that's a myth we need to break. It is

456
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:43,720
not funny. It's not funny. So I share a lot of, I share a lot of these, these myofumptial

457
00:50:43,720 --> 00:50:49,080
therapists and their identity is on my, on my personal social media. And I feel like something

458
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:53,160
like, oh man, I share, I'm sharing something all the time, but I'm hoping that somebody catches it

459
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:59,480
and goes, huh, yeah, hey, we have that. Oh, is that what that's connected to? Because even that

460
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:05,640
simple, like, you know, because the baby's, baby's mouth and, you know, the song, the tongue section

461
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:10,120
that I didn't know our tongue's supposed to be section of the top of our mouth. I had no idea.

462
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:15,080
I didn't know that. And I've said this before, you know, I, I have a science background.

463
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:21,720
And, you know, my, my grandfather even was a professor or dean at the UT medical school

464
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:28,840
or for dental school. I'm around these people, right? I should know these things.

465
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:33,960
I didn't know that until, you know, I first started working here and I have an airway

466
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:41,160
disorder and at no point in the 20 years almost of having this, I didn't even point that out to me.

467
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:47,160
Yeah. Why are we talking about it? Yeah. Right. And then I started talking to all these different

468
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:51,880
doctors and they're turning around saying, well, yeah, we went to med school and no one told us.

469
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:59,480
I'm going, wait, what? So, you know, so I was already kind of shocked thinking, how did I not

470
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:04,920
know that? And, you know, here are these professionals. It's just mind blowing to me.

471
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:09,720
It really is. Absolutely mind blowing. So for parents, again, don't feel guilty because

472
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:16,360
so many people didn't know. But yeah, I think most people, yeah, I would say, I would say most

473
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:21,560
people don't know. Most people don't know. I mean, I mentioned my dad's apnea. I don't know when he

474
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:29,560
was officially diagnosed. I was he had a heart attack very, very early. He was only 38. So I don't

475
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:35,800
know how old that makes me. I was little. I was in middle school, I think. I don't think he was

476
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:42,520
diagnosed with apnea. I don't think it was right after that. I think it still took several years.

477
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:47,160
And he got the CPAP machine and suddenly he was like, because I mean, he was up all night long.

478
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:52,120
We all just that was what dad dad just he would sleep on the couch with the TV because he was

479
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,840
up all night long. Think about all the sitcoms we grew up with, like all on the family and some

480
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:01,480
of these shows where it was a joke. It was just a joke. You could hear I mean, you could hear my

481
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:09,720
dad. You could hear it. Yeah. Wow. You know, but no idea. I can almost guarantee his doctor never

482
00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:14,680
talked to him about that stuff. And he's not very good about the apnea machine. And recently,

483
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:23,080
I've said, you know, where's your tongue? And are you? Yeah. And I and I it's baffling to me.

484
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:28,040
And I and I did actually, okay, so I did tell him recently to have a conversation with his

485
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:34,760
his primary and his cardiologist. I said, if they're talking to you about high blood pressure,

486
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:41,000
but they're not talking about apnea in your airway, then you can tell them that they aren't

487
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,640
worth their degree. And you can even have them call me. And that's, I know, very bold to say.

488
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,040
But I said, if they're not touching on that, then they're just giving you more pills,

489
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,880
and they're not helping you. Right. But you know what? That's exactly an example of

490
00:53:54,600 --> 00:54:01,080
what I've heard because they weren't taught that in school. They're just doing what they were taught.

491
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:07,560
So it's just amazing. And it's a lot of patience to say I've had. So I had something I have something

492
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:13,480
medically with me that I guess I learned some of my bravery pre kids with with doctors where a lot

493
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:22,040
of them would deny. And I learned how to move on to maybe somebody else. And but I when I had a

494
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:27,160
the first doctor that looked at me and said, thank you for teaching me something new.

495
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:34,120
How do you want me to support you on this? I thought, wow, you're in. Yeah, you're in.

496
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:40,600
And because now we can start that conversation. And you know, we've had providers on here before

497
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,920
too that have said, never stop learning. Right. We went through medical school, but

498
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:51,960
and you go get your CES or CMEs, whichever side of the house you're on and keep learning. You never

499
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,800
are going to know everything. So keep learning because science changes and involves as we learn.

500
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:01,960
Yeah. And there's so and I and I and I empathize. I realize they see a lot of people and the

501
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:08,120
pressure of the insurance system. I know that there's a lot at the same time.

502
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:14,840
She did tell me those things and she's been receptive to whatever I and I brought her

503
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:20,440
surprise, surprise. I brought her information and said, can you look at this and she's open to it.

504
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:26,280
And I realize not every doctor can or wants to or whatever. It's all nuance, but

505
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:36,280
but it's it's it's still sitting in that bravery and going forward. And do we do we want do we want

506
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:43,640
band-aids or do we want healing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you have to do what you have to do. And

507
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:49,560
you know, I had to move across the country to find a provider that could support me in that way.

508
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:54,280
Because, you know, the other was doing exactly what they were taught, but it wasn't working.

509
00:55:54,280 --> 00:56:02,680
So you keep fighting, you keep trying, you keep working, right? Is is airway moms, you just keep

510
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:10,920
advocating. Yeah. There was another book I read recently, too, called and it's written by a dentist.

511
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:15,960
And I don't remember a name, but you probably know of it. It's got in like in the moms in the trenches,

512
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:24,120
I think is the name. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And I'll put it. I'll put

513
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:31,640
a link to that one as well. Quick read. But but I thought, yep, OK, there we are. It was just another

514
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:39,160
one of those wonderful validations. Yeah. And all coming together. So yeah. Yeah. And for anyone that

515
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:43,560
thought that was a plant that was a plant that's actually not coming, give away. So that's why

516
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,960
I had it. I've got it. I love you. You can see my bookshelf up at the top. I've got it. It's up

517
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:52,280
there somewhere. Yeah, it's up there. Yeah. Mine's blurred. It's just full of all the things, the

518
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:59,000
research that we've done. And yeah. So I cannot thank you enough for coming on and sharing your

519
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:05,720
story and I hate to say tips, but guidance and just everything that you have shared

520
00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:10,200
to help our parent audience. I really, really appreciate it, Molly. Thank you so much.

521
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:17,160
I hope that more kids and parents can find help. Yeah. So thank you.

522
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:24,680
Thanks again to today's guest, Molly Peterson, for sharing her story and to each of you for listening

523
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:30,440
to today's episode. If you're new to our podcast, please don't forget to subscribe. And if you

524
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:35,800
enjoyed today's episode, leave us a review or a comment telling us about what you enjoyed most.

525
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:42,280
You can stay connected with the Children's Airway First Foundation by following us on Instagram,

526
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:49,240
Facebook, X, LinkedIn, and YouTube. Parents can also join us at our Facebook Parents Support

527
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:55,080
Group, the Airway Huddle, at facebook.com, backslash groups, backslash airway huddle.

528
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:00,680
You can also find tons of great content for parents and medical professionals alike via the

529
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:06,920
parents portal and clinicians corner areas of our website. If you'd like to be a guest or have an

530
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:12,280
idea for an upcoming episode, shoot us a note via the contacts page on our website or send us an

531
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:20,040
email directly at info at childrensairwayfirst.org. And finally, thanks to all the parents and medical

532
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:24,280
professionals out there that are working to help make the lives of kids around the globe just a

533
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:41,720
little bit better. Take care, stay safe, and happy breathing, everyone.