1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:29,000
Hi everyone, and welcome back to Airway First, the podcast from the Children's Airway First Foundation.

2
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,000
I'm your host, Rebecca St. James.

3
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:44,000
My guest today is Amy Fields, internationally board certified lactation consultant and labor and delivery nurse with over 25 years of experience helping moms and babies with breastfeeding.

4
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:56,000
Amy started working as a labor and delivery nurse in 1998, and in 2010 she was given the opportunity to run the community education department at the hospital she was working at.

5
00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:04,000
She became LaMaze certified and began teaching childbirth and newborn care classes to expectant patients.

6
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:14,000
In addition to working as a labor nurse in the hospital setting, she has also assisted with home births and spent two years working at a freestanding birth center.

7
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:20,000
In 2011 she started a postpartum support group called Circle of Mothers.

8
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:26,000
You can find out more about Amy at azbrestfedbabies.com.

9
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:34,000
And now let's jump into my interview with today's guest, Amy Fields.

10
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:39,000
Perfect. Thanks so much for joining me this afternoon, Amy. I appreciate it.

11
00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,000
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to do this.

12
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

13
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:54,000
So before we kick things off, maybe we could tell our audience a little bit about you and the work that you do.

14
00:01:54,000 --> 00:02:13,000
Yeah, so I own AZ Breastfed Babies and AZ Breastfed Babies is now a team of lactation consultants or IBCLCs that cover the area of Phoenix, Arizona, which is actually quite large as well as offering virtual consults for families around the world.

15
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:21,000
So there's currently 11 of us and the team is growing and it's been just amazing.

16
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:30,000
But I started out 25 years ago as a labor and delivery nurse. That was how I got into this world.

17
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:39,000
And in 2012 I sat for the boards to become an IBCLC or an internationally board certified lactation consultant.

18
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:45,000
I always loved breastfeeding. I was very passionate about helping new moms.

19
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:57,000
I breastfed my own free children. And the first like 10 years of being a labor and delivery nurse, I worked in hospitals that did not have lactation consultants.

20
00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:02,000
The labor and postpartum nurses helped with that.

21
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:11,000
And there were just some nurses that I worked with that didn't have successful breastfeeding journeys with their own children and really struggled.

22
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:17,000
Or it just wasn't their thing. We all kind of had our thing that we would do.

23
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:27,000
There's some people that were better at starting IVs. I was like the person, the go-to, they were like, oh, that baby won't latch. Have Amy go in there. She'll get that baby to latch.

24
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:37,000
And so it just made sense to get the certification and to become an IBCLC. I didn't really know what I was going to do with it.

25
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:44,000
I figured out pretty quickly that I did not want to be a lactation consultant in the hospital.

26
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:59,000
And so I ended up leaving the hospital and going and working at a freestanding birth center. And I assisted as a nurse with both births in the birth center and actually some home births.

27
00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:08,000
And then it just worked itself out to where I started doing breastfeeding consults for families in the community.

28
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:18,000
And it was like one person would tell another or somebody that I worked with would have a sister that had a baby and they're like, can you go to her house?

29
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:28,000
And then this business just grew. And so I ended up leaving the hospital in like 2017.

30
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:39,000
And so there was overlap. I was still working in the hospital as a labor nurse and had the business of AZ breastfed babies. And it just kept growing and growing and growing.

31
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:50,000
And so I had to make a choice. So it was just me driving all. I had a mini Cooper for a while, driving my mini Cooper all over the valley doing home visits.

32
00:04:50,000 --> 00:05:06,000
And I mean, I love it. I love every minute of it, but getting stretched very thin. And, you know, it's hard when you have a business, when you do something to bring other people into your business, because your business is kind of like another baby.

33
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:20,000
But the first person I brought on my team is somebody that I actually, I knew her when she was a little girl. And then she grew up and became a labor nurse and then became an IBSLC.

34
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:30,000
So that first person was so easy to bring on. And then now here I am with, you know, other subcontractors, team members.

35
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:42,000
And so yeah, that's kind of a little bit about like, AZ breastfed babies and what we do and how it grew. And it's just been a really amazing journey.

36
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,000
Yeah.

37
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:58,000
And along with that, I know we're going to dig into it a little bit more. But when I first became an IBCLC, I thought like, oh, I'm just going to help mom's breastfeed and help them choose the best nipple cream and breastfeeding pillow.

38
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:14,000
And, and now here we are like talking about airway and jaw formation and sleep. And it all came to me pretty quickly, like how incredibly important this is.

39
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:23,000
Because in 2013, I went to the International Affiliation of Tongue Type Professional Conference in Florida.

40
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:32,000
And there's a pediatrician here in the Valley, Dr. Aguil that owns Agave Pediatrics and he's really big in the tongue type world.

41
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:45,000
And he told me like, you need to go to this. It's about tongue ties. And I was like, three days. It was actually four days. The fourth day was for, I think, members or something.

42
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:49,000
So the first three days of conferences, you know,

43
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:53,000
And you're thinking, what can they talk about for three days?

44
00:06:53,000 --> 00:07:07,000
Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I'm like, I've been a nurse for a while. I did all my training to become an IBCLC. Like, I know that there's tongue ties, but like, what are they going to talk about for three days?

45
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:13,000
And I knew I needed to go because if I was questioning it, I was like, there must be a lot. I don't know.

46
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:31,000
And it was, you know, talking about tongue ties across the lifespan. And they had dentists, they had IBCLCs, they had OTs, PT's, SLPs, they had everybody there. And I was completely mind blown, like, absolutely mind blown.

47
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:46,000
And as I'm sitting there listening to some of the sessions, I'm thinking about these babies that I had done consults with recently that I like couldn't figure out why they were struggling and what was going on. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, that baby has a tongue tie.

48
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:58,000
Oh, my gosh, I bet that baby has a tongue tie. How did I miss? Oh, my gosh. And came back to Phoenix and called these families that I've been working with. I was like, come back in. I've learned something new.

49
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:14,000
So, you know, in a lot of ways, IBCLCs are first responders. We're in there early, early on, the very beginning. I mean, some of these babies were seen less than 24 hours of age.

50
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:27,000
And seeing some of these issues, it's not always a tongue tie, right? It's not always hormone restrictions that are causing the issues. But, you know, and, and our intake has changed to include questions.

51
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:35,000
About the parents' oral function in airway, orthodontic history, how they sleep.

52
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:41,000
So, I would have now we know, right? Never guessed that in the beginning.

53
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:46,000
It's crazy. It's just crazy.

54
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:59,000
So, as somebody that has had a couple of children and kind of two year point that first night with both of them, same hospital is a great hospital.

55
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:12,000
A nurse came in to help me. And I'll just, you know, put it all out there. It did not go well for me. So, you know, I apologize to my daughters all the time for this. They were not breastfed because it just, I never got the hang of it.

56
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,000
Yeah.

57
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:31,000
So, obviously, I now know I would have been a great person to call, you know, someone like you say, hey, I need some help. But what are some of the other, you know, signs or symptoms that tell a new mom, hey, I need some help.

58
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,000
And let's get lactation consultation going.

59
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:50,000
Yeah. So, the things that a lactation consultant can help with are just numerous. And the reasons why someone would call a lactation consultant isn't always because breastfeeding is hard, isn't always because the latch is painful.

60
00:09:50,000 --> 00:10:03,000
But certainly those are reasons. But, you know, we tell people like even if breastfeeding is going well in the very beginning, but you just want to have somebody that's a specialist that's there to help you.

61
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:09,000
And that's going to help you maneuver through the different stages of breastfeeding as the baby gets older.

62
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:22,000
And I know you, one of the things that we were going to talk about is like, when should someone call a lactation consultant. And so I have an Instagram account. It's az breastfed babies.

63
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,000
And I do a lot of education on there.

64
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:35,000
At the beginning of the year, I declared 2024 as the year to do prenatal visits, the year of the prenatal consults.

65
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:55,000
If we can get in on the whole process before the baby is even born, it's going to be so much better. And, you know, to have an IBCLC on speed dial that you can ask questions of run things by, you know, get out to your house within the first week after the baby is born.

66
00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:10,000
It just sets things up for success because a lot of what interferes with breastfeeding is just our own thoughts and worries and fears about it.

67
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:27,000
And so meeting with someone prenatally that can answer questions that can help you have good expectations and what breastfeeding looks like on day one looks different than day three looks different than day five because as your milk transitions from

68
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:42,000
your breast to milk, like your baby may breastfeed really well on day one or two. And then as your milk transitions and your breasts become full, it may be harder for the baby to latch on and that's right about the time that moms get discharged from the hospital.

69
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:47,000
That's where they get birth and then they're like, Oh my gosh, I don't have a colleague.

70
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:57,000
So the button for the nurse or the lactation consultant to come in, but you will have your lactation consultant out in the community on speed dial.

71
00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:16,000
So we help with, you know, like I said, those prenatal visits all the way through breastfeeding in those first few days, first few weeks to pumping flange size fitting, which is like a big topic right now because all of the pump companies only send.

72
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:33,000
Certain size flanges and then there's a 90% chance they're not going to be the right size for each mom and you know which bottles would be best because there's a lot of marketing out there, a lot of marketing.

73
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:44,000
And I do tell people I'm like, you can work with the lactation consultant and they can help you save money because you're not going to buy like all the things.

74
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,000
You'll just get the right ones.

75
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:52,000
Yeah, let's get like, you know, some babies can drink out of any bottle and they do fine.

76
00:12:52,000 --> 00:13:03,000
But if we're dealing with some oral dysfunction, there are certain bottles that can work better for that baby to help them along.

77
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:20,000
Yeah, we help with like, there's different stages of development, like a lot of people hear about that four months, distractible baby. And that's a whole different season of breastfeeding starting solids at around six months.

78
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:35,000
So a breastfeeding console isn't only valuable like in the very beginning to get a good, good latch. It's something that like as the baby grows. That is why I do that free postpartum support group.

79
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,000
I think you saw that.

80
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,000
Yeah, others.

81
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000
Yeah.

82
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:53,000
I've been doing it for 12 years. I do it weekly. It's free. It's not only a breastfeeding support group. And anyone's welcome. Any mom and baby pre crawling.

83
00:13:53,000 --> 00:14:04,000
It doesn't matter how you feed your baby, everybody is welcome, but it's such an important part of the whole journey as a new mom to have a support system.

84
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:17,000
But it does help me keep in touch with clients that I've been working with, you know, in between consults, like they can come to the group, they can weigh their baby, they can ask me questions and do troubleshooting.

85
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:32,000
It also keeps me in the know, because I hear from these moms, I know what's going on. I know kind of what the trends are. And my kids are older, my kids are my son's 20 and my girls are 23.

86
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:44,000
My oldest is going to be 25 on Sunday. It's crazy. So doing the group keeps me like, like it's in the know. So yeah.

87
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,000
Yeah.

88
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:57,000
Well, okay. So you mentioned a little bit about bottles. And before we really start to dig into things, I'll just kind of level set with our audience. I'm going to put a link to your website.

89
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:18,000
You've got some amazing resources there. So I don't want to give away everything, but I know there's, I'd like to just talk about kind of some high level tips and guidance as we work through here, but for moms that have to go back to work.

90
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:32,000
I know that it's more than just, you know, some babies can drink out of everything and certain ones will be, you know, make it less gassy, things like that. But really from the standpoint of we're really talking about jaw growth and development.

91
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:41,000
So if you have to go back to work, what are some good bottles or what are some things you should look for, you know, for the bottles that you would want to use?

92
00:15:41,000 --> 00:16:05,000
The reason why those of us that are in this field that are working as IV CLC or speech language pathologists, occupational therapists, we're working with these babies and children is that we do see the whole progress of oral function and that it starts at birth, right?

93
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:17,000
So we know that the palate is the, it's the roof, it's the ceiling of the mouth, and it's the floor of the airway.

94
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:26,000
So if a baby has a really high palate, it's going to be pushing up on the airway and infringing on that.

95
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,000
Right.

96
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,000
And that's what this whole, everything you do is all about, right?

97
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:43,000
And so when we're talking about oral function and the baby's ability to latch well, the baby's ability to latch on the breast, it's the biological norm.

98
00:16:43,000 --> 00:17:00,000
It's mother nature's way of really helping that jaw formation, that palate formation, because how baby latches at the breast progresses to how they're going to chew and eat solids, speech, airway, all of that.

99
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,000
It's all connected.

100
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:08,000
So I did say like, oh, some babies can take any bottle and they do just fine.

101
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,000
And I, you know, talked about a little bit about marketing.

102
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:16,000
There's the marketing of like, oh my gosh, this bottle looks just like the breast.

103
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:24,000
And those are the ones we typically say to stay far, far away from because we don't need it to look like the breast.

104
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,000
That's not, that's not what we're going for.

105
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,000
Yeah.

106
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,000
That's not what we're going for.

107
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:36,000
So there are certain bottles that we tend to recommend for different reasons.

108
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:48,000
So like in the very beginning, the first, I'm going to say like four to six weeks of life, I'm going to really focus on flow rates because I don't want a fast flow bottle.

109
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,000
Do you want me to tell what kind of bottles?

110
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,000
I'm happy to do that.

111
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,000
Sure. Yeah.

112
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,000
Whatever you feel comfortable sharing.

113
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,000
Yeah.

114
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,000
Yeah.

115
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:02,000
I have no like monetary affiliation with any of these companies.

116
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:18,000
Right. That's my disclaimer. I don't make any money from any of this, but typically most of us recommend the Dr. Brown's standard bottles because they have really good slow flow rates.

117
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:28,000
And that's no problem because putting your udon in and vousting out gets.

118
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,000
So we used to only see the ultra-premium preemie in the

119
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,400
NICUs for the preemie, micro-premie babies.

120
00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:39,400
And I think a lot of lactation consultants out in the community

121
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,800
they were like, wait, we want that preemie nipple out here for

122
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,800
our full term babies that we're working on breastfeeding skills.

123
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,100
And so they sell them now you can find them even at Target,

124
00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:52,400
you can find them on Amazon.

125
00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:54,500
But I want a slow flow.

126
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:57,300
I want the baby to have to work a little bit at the bottle

127
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:00,800
because we're going back and forth between breast and bottle.

128
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,100
We do want them to have to work.

129
00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:06,600
I see it all the time.

130
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,000
We switch to that kind of bottle.

131
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,800
They start to do better at the breast.

132
00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:13,500
So there is that.

133
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:16,400
And then is it because it's more consistent?

134
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,600
It's it's definitely more consistent and it's just a slower flow.

135
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:21,400
Okay.

136
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:27,100
And Dr. Browns does have a wide mouth bottle that they do have

137
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:31,900
a preemie nipple, but I definitely think the standard with the

138
00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:36,100
preemie or the newborn flow is good if a baby is getting a

139
00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:38,400
bottle in those first four to six weeks.

140
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:42,300
Maybe mom has a low milk supply and she's doing some bottle

141
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:43,800
feeding and breastfeeding.

142
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,800
Maybe baby was being supplemented in the very beginning

143
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,600
because the pediatrician recommended that because of low

144
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,300
blood sugars or jaundice.

145
00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:55,600
Like there could be different reasons why a baby gets a bottle

146
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:56,400
that early.

147
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:56,900
Okay.

148
00:19:56,900 --> 00:20:03,600
But a lot of times, breastfeeding is going well and we're just

149
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,700
focusing on breastfeeding during that time.

150
00:20:05,700 --> 00:20:07,700
So it just depends on that mom and baby.

151
00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:13,800
And then we do recommend if mom is especially if she's going

152
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,800
to be going back to work or she just knows that she wants

153
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,100
her baby to take a bottle occasionally.

154
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:23,900
We will usually recommend doing a bottle intro at about for

155
00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:27,000
that four to six week mark if the baby hasn't already had one.

156
00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:31,700
At that point, I'm going to then really start to focus more

157
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:38,700
on the shape of the nipple because we do want to encourage

158
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:39,900
a wide gate.

159
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,500
We want baby's mouth to open really wide.

160
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:47,600
We want that tongue to extend and cup around the nipple.

161
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:53,300
So my go-to bottle is usually the even flow balance bottle

162
00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:54,900
with the slow flow nipple.

163
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:02,700
They do have both a standard size and a wide size.

164
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:06,600
So I always start with the standard and sometimes as a baby

165
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,500
gets older, we'll switch to a wider nipple.

166
00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:13,300
Those are generalizations.

167
00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:16,800
I mean, when I'm working with someone one-on-one, I may make

168
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,300
different recommendations depending on what's going on.

169
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:26,600
There are other bottles like the Lansunoma, the Boone bottle.

170
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:32,200
There's a great company called Lactation Hub that is owned by

171
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:38,100
an IV CLC and she both carries all of the products that IV

172
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:43,100
CLCs love everything from those bottles and then also things

173
00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:44,100
that we need.

174
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:47,600
We don't necessarily love them, but we need them within our

175
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,500
practice like nipple shields.

176
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,300
I mean, so they have so many products and so some of the

177
00:21:56,300 --> 00:21:59,300
products she actually manufactures.

178
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:05,900
Yeah, so she has a bottle, a gentle flow bottle that has a

179
00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:09,500
great nipple and it's a glass bottle, which a lot of families

180
00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:11,900
really want glass rather than plastic.

181
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,000
Then plastic, yeah.

182
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,500
Yeah, so sometimes that might be a bottle that some of our

183
00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:18,000
clients choose.

184
00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:21,700
So who would have thought that choosing a bottle was going to

185
00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:23,300
be so important?

186
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:24,600
Right.

187
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,700
And you know, like Baby List has those baby bottle boxes where

188
00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:32,800
they send a box that has like eight different bottles in it.

189
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,000
And Dr. Browns is one that's in there.

190
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,900
It does have the level one nipple, but then it has like a

191
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:41,200
bunch of other ones.

192
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,800
So whenever I go to someone's house or they come in for a

193
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,300
visit and they have that box, they'll just bring it out to

194
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:48,800
me and they're like, which bottle?

195
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,100
And I'm like, not this one, not this one, not this one.

196
00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:52,900
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

197
00:22:52,900 --> 00:22:55,900
And okay, okay, this one, but let's get different nipples.

198
00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:58,700
So there is that.

199
00:22:58,700 --> 00:22:59,900
And why does it matter?

200
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,400
Like why does it matter?

201
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:09,700
Because oral function matters and how the tongue moves matters.

202
00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:10,400
Right.

203
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,000
You know, what's going on with the palate matters and what's

204
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,500
going on with the jaw matters.

205
00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:18,800
And so some of those other bottles have really pointy nipples

206
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,800
that kind of look like straws.

207
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,100
And then we have a baby that's sucking more than they're

208
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:26,000
suckling.

209
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,200
So they're sucking, they're using their lips, their cheek

210
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,900
muscles to get the milk out instead of latching and using

211
00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:37,800
and using their tongue and yeah.

212
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:45,100
So there's like a whole purpose behind why we recommend

213
00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:48,500
certain things and yeah.

214
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:54,100
Well, and let me ask because in between my daughters, the, and

215
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:55,900
our house, we call them sucky suckies.

216
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,500
I know in Australia, they're dummies and column passes, right?

217
00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:07,000
What they sent us home in the hospital to suit them was

218
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:12,600
different. So with my younger one or yeah, my younger one, it's

219
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:19,400
that green and it's to me, though, it's very similar to a

220
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:20,900
straw in the shape.

221
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:21,900
Is it not?

222
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:22,800
Yeah.

223
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,700
So I think that's the avent suity that you're talking about.

224
00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:27,400
It's like the one you can look down in.

225
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:28,800
Yep.

226
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:29,300
Yep.

227
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,000
Um, yes.

228
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:31,700
So it's funny.

229
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:35,800
My my kids never really used a pacifier.

230
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,200
We kind of tried in the very beginning thinking like, oh, babies

231
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,100
take pacifiers, you know, like we should probably get them

232
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:43,200
and then they just never did.

233
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,200
But I have four brothers, three of them are younger and I

234
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,600
remember them having pacifiers and my mom called it called them

235
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,800
plugs, which I think is so funny.

236
00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:55,000
Like their mouth.

237
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:55,500
They're crying.

238
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:55,600
Plug them.

239
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:56,100
Plug it.

240
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:02,900
Um, and so that too is another whole subject about having so

241
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:09,700
many options of different types of pacifiers and, um, it's funny

242
00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:14,600
because it's a favorite gift for people to give that baby showers.

243
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,900
Like, we got tons of them.

244
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:17,400
Yeah.

245
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,400
So it's almost like looked at in our culture as a necessity and

246
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,900
it's really not like it's okay to not ever give your baby a

247
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:28,500
pacifier.

248
00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:33,000
There are times when I do find that it's therapeutically indicated.

249
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,700
It can help with certain things like especially if a baby, you

250
00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:41,500
know, is swallowing a lot of air because we're working on oral

251
00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:42,200
function.

252
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,500
Like not everything is a super fast fix, right?

253
00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:48,200
Like some things take time.

254
00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:53,300
And so a pacifier is something that we can use therapeutically.

255
00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:57,600
But so you, I think you're talking about the AvanSudi, a lot of

256
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,100
the hospitals, I think have a contract with them and do use them.

257
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:06,400
There are certain things about those types of pacifiers that can

258
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:12,400
be good for encouraging, um, the baby, there's like a base around

259
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:12,600
it.

260
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,500
There's like a little lip or an edge and it can encourage those

261
00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:21,000
lips to kind of blanch out a little bit more so than like some

262
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,100
of the man pacifiers or the pacifiers.

263
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:24,900
Yeah.

264
00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:28,300
They're kind of like chewing and chomping again, like recruiting

265
00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:30,500
the muscles around their lips and cheeks.

266
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,700
Um, but then when we have a baby that has a tongue tie, lip

267
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:40,200
tie, oral ties in general and maybe has a release done, um,

268
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:45,900
it's like, there's, there's going to be risks or benefits to

269
00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:48,400
anything that we use like that.

270
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:48,900
Sure.

271
00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:49,400
Sure.

272
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,400
So that's when I tell parents like try to not use a pacifier

273
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,400
because a pacifier holds the tongue down and it's always open

274
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,200
mouth breathing.

275
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,300
When you have a pacifier in their mouth, their lips are not

276
00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:05,800
closed, but if you're in the car and your baby is crying and

277
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,400
you're trying to get to the pediatrician visit, please,

278
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,100
you want to use a pacifier, please do like it's a comfort

279
00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:13,500
measure.

280
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:15,600
Like there's a time and a place for it.

281
00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:21,100
Um, but just don't keep popping it in for just, you know, unless

282
00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:24,200
it's like you're just trying to buy a little bit of time to get

283
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,100
to where you're going in the car or, you know, mom is in the

284
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:30,700
shower and she just got in and got shampoo in her hair and

285
00:27:30,700 --> 00:27:31,700
baby's losing it.

286
00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:35,600
And then another family member, a partner, a dad, whomever is

287
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,300
going to use a clean finger or a pacifier for a minute.

288
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:40,600
Go for it.

289
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:41,100
Right.

290
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:45,000
There's no hard and fast nevers and nose in this world.

291
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,500
Um, there's a new pacifier that came out a couple of years ago

292
00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:52,300
called the ninny co pacifier.

293
00:27:52,300 --> 00:27:53,500
Are you familiar with that one?

294
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:54,400
I am not.

295
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,200
Yeah, it's called the ninny co and it's a silicone pacifier

296
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,300
and it's a super soft silicone.

297
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:04,300
It's so thin.

298
00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:09,800
Um, that the pressure that it would put on the palate and the

299
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,400
tongue in general is so minimal compared to other pacifiers.

300
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,200
Okay.

301
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:19,400
I'll use it for suck training sometimes with babies to help get

302
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,000
like better extension.

303
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,600
So again, everything can be potentially a tool.

304
00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:28,900
And then we have that conversation with our families that we

305
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:34,100
work with about how if you're using a pacifier and you can,

306
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,900
you know, wean from it at about that four to five month mark.

307
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:44,200
That would be ideal because, um, much longer than that, we're

308
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,800
getting into probably teeth coming in.

309
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:47,500
Right.

310
00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:50,800
And also just a baby that's going to be more in tuned with a

311
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,900
habit and, and then it could be harder to take away from later,

312
00:28:55,900 --> 00:29:00,100
but I have parents switch out the pacifier with certain types

313
00:29:00,100 --> 00:29:05,000
of teethers that, um, like the myo munchie or something like

314
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:05,300
that.

315
00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:05,500
Yeah.

316
00:29:05,500 --> 00:29:07,800
The baby munchie is really good.

317
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,800
Um, and then there's other ones that just encourage like the

318
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,600
teether to get back a little further so that they can kind of

319
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,100
chew and chomp on it.

320
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:22,000
Um, and then it still gives them something they're, they're

321
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,400
going to put their fingers in their mouth.

322
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:24,800
Like it's all developmentally.

323
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:25,100
Sure.

324
00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:25,600
Yeah.

325
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,000
Has a purpose.

326
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:29,800
Um, some sucking is a little different.

327
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,800
That's not my area of expertise, but, um, that's, that's something

328
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,700
a little bit different, but just in general, like babies putting

329
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:41,300
their fingers to their mouths can be very, uh, developmentally

330
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:41,900
appropriate.

331
00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:45,900
It's a sensory thing and then giving them like these teethers

332
00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:46,900
that they can chew and chomp on.

333
00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:51,100
But yeah, I saw you, you did a podcast, um, on the myo munchie

334
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:55,400
and yeah, I have one actually have one right here.

335
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:56,700
Oh, look at that.

336
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:57,000
Yep.

337
00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:58,200
Oh, I love it.

338
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,700
In my office, I do, I've taken the class.

339
00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:02,200
I do have the baby munchie.

340
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,300
So, um, there are some babies that I'll definitely recommend

341
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:10,600
that for at about, you know, maybe four months, but definitely

342
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,400
by five or six months, it can be a good like tool for them.

343
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:43,000
It really helps with politics, expansion.

344
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,000
You're listening to airway first with today's guest, Amy Fields.

345
00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:50,900
You can find out more about the Children's Airway First Foundation

346
00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:54,600
and our mission to fix before six on our website at Children's

347
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,200
Airway First.org.

348
00:30:57,100 --> 00:31:00,100
The CAF website offers tons of great resources for both

349
00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:01,800
parents and medical professionals.

350
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,500
And our parents portal and clinicians corner.

351
00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:07,800
You can find educational and informational content, including

352
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,800
videos, blogs, our recommended reading list, comprehensive

353
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,900
medical research, podcasts, events, parent support, and

354
00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:17,800
additional educational opportunities.

355
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,100
Parents are also encouraged to join the Airway Huddle, our

356
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:24,800
Facebook support group, which was created for parents of

357
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,000
children with airway and sleep related issues.

358
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,300
You can access the Airway Huddle support group at facebook.com

359
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:34,200
backslash groups backslash airway huddle.

360
00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:37,700
Are you a medical professional or parent that's interested

361
00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:38,900
in being a guest on the show?

362
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:41,900
Then shoot us a note via the contacts page on our website

363
00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:46,700
or send us an email directly at info at children'sairwayfirst.org.

364
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,800
As a reminder, this podcast and the opinions expressed here

365
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,500
are not a medical diagnosis.

366
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:55,100
If you suspect your child might have an airway issue,

367
00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:58,400
contact your pediatric airway dentist or pediatrician.

368
00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:02,100
And now let's jump back into my interview with today's guest,

369
00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:25,700
Amy Fields.

370
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:30,500
So, whatever the baby is born with is what they've had

371
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:35,300
throughout gestation and how they've been moving their tongue.

372
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:40,300
They've been doing that since really early on, like as early

373
00:32:40,300 --> 00:32:41,700
as even eight weeks.

374
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,800
And, you know, they've been moving their tongue in a certain

375
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,100
way.

376
00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:47,200
They've been swallowing amniotic fluid.

377
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,700
And so when they're born, it's not like that's the starting

378
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:52,400
point.

379
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,700
They're special memories.

380
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,200
They've been doing it.

381
00:32:56,900 --> 00:32:59,600
And every once in a while, there's a baby.

382
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,500
Like if they do have oral restrictions and the ties are

383
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:07,700
released, there are some babies that off they go, they do

384
00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:08,200
great.

385
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,000
It's like parents are like, oh my gosh, from the very first

386
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,400
latch after that release, it felt different.

387
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,400
It felt better and it's beautiful.

388
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,000
You know, Michelle Chatham calls that the tether flow babies.

389
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,700
Have you read her article on that?

390
00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:23,100
Yeah.

391
00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:23,700
Yeah.

392
00:33:23,900 --> 00:33:25,200
I'll put a link to that in here.

393
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:26,000
Yeah.

394
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,900
It's called the tether flow babies.

395
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:31,800
So she uses the analogy of like an iceberg and an ice flow.

396
00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:35,400
Sometimes you see that ice on the surface and you don't know

397
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,100
what's underneath and sometimes it is just what's on the

398
00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:39,800
surface and it's just floating around.

399
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,400
It's free spirit, right?

400
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:46,100
And sometimes you see some ice on the surface and what's

401
00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:49,100
under the surface is bigger than what we see above.

402
00:33:49,100 --> 00:33:49,400
Right.

403
00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:53,300
And so the birth process can be a part of that.

404
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:55,300
Food allergies can be a part of that.

405
00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:59,800
Moms milk supply. So there's all these variables that can make

406
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,300
breastfeeding difficult.

407
00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:06,600
It's not just always oral ties and it's not just only oral

408
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:07,800
ties that you can cause.

409
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:08,000
Sure.

410
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,400
There's a lot more to play off that.

411
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,100
You know, we talked a little, you mentioned rather that one

412
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:15,800
of the biggest gifts.

413
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,000
And I think if you had a baby shower, we all got a gazillion

414
00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:23,400
pacifiers, sucky suckies, whatever you want to call them.

415
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:24,300
Yeah.

416
00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:28,500
So what are some other gifts that would be more appropriate

417
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:31,000
that we could bring to these baby showers that are going to

418
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,600
help moms with breastfeeding and babies with this whole jaw

419
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:35,200
development?

420
00:34:35,700 --> 00:34:35,900
Okay.

421
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:39,200
Well, the first thing I'm going to say is a gift certificate

422
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:40,900
for a lactation consult.

423
00:34:41,500 --> 00:34:42,500
Yes.

424
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:45,900
We are in that with most insurance plans.

425
00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:47,600
Some IV CLCs are.

426
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,800
So depending on where you live, you could always check into

427
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:56,200
that, but a breastfeed, a good breastfeeding class, you know,

428
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,500
always, of course, ask what the mom wants.

429
00:34:58,500 --> 00:35:01,000
We don't ever want to like push that on them.

430
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,800
But whether or not a mom is going to breastfeed, her milk

431
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:05,800
is going to come in.

432
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,300
So it to some extent.

433
00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:09,800
So there is that.

434
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:15,100
But yeah, a gift certificate for a consult would be good.

435
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,300
And then as far as like things, I would say, the first thing

436
00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:24,000
I'm going to say are meals, frozen meals, because if we can

437
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,800
set mom up for really good postpartum period where she's

438
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:33,200
healing, where she can just focus on her and the baby and

439
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,600
focus on breastfeeding, things are going to go so much better.

440
00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:42,300
So, you know, pay for her house to get cleaned if, you know,

441
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:43,600
she's open to that.

442
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,000
Like I'm going to have a housekeeper come a couple of times

443
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,400
to clean everything for you so that you can just sit there

444
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,700
and enjoy your baby and just establish breastfeeding.

445
00:35:52,700 --> 00:35:54,200
I'm going to bring meals over.

446
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,000
I'm going to hire someone to come pick up your dog poop in

447
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,000
the backyard so that you and your partner can just focus on

448
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:01,600
the baby.

449
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:05,000
Like those are the best gifts that I can think of.

450
00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:10,000
And then as far as breastfeeding supplies, you know, like

451
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,300
there are good natural nipple creams that you can get.

452
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:18,100
I love the silver nipple cups like the silverettes or

453
00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:22,900
lactation hub has their booby bliss silver nipple cups.

454
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,900
Um, those can be incredibly useful in the postpartum period.

455
00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:33,000
If you go like on my Instagram, I have a link in the bio.

456
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,100
I do have a list of things that you can buy it on Amazon

457
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,600
that include even like one of those carts, you know, the

458
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,900
three tiered carts on wheels that they have.

459
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:44,400
Uh-huh.

460
00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:45,500
Yeah.

461
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:48,700
And so mom can bring that from room to room and it can have

462
00:36:48,700 --> 00:36:55,900
her water hydro flask there, um, her snacks because it's so

463
00:36:55,900 --> 00:36:57,800
important that mom is nourished.

464
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:58,800
Uh-huh.

465
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:03,200
And then, you know, the nipple cream, the breast pads, diapers

466
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,100
and wipes for babies can be on there so that, um, everything

467
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:09,900
is just in at a hands reach.

468
00:37:09,900 --> 00:37:14,000
And I when I see new parents with like a brand brand new

469
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,500
baby in that first week, you know, there's definitely like a

470
00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:21,200
therapeutic presence that we have with them.

471
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,900
And I always have Kleenex right next to where we're sitting in

472
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:30,200
my office because I'm not afraid of the tears that come with

473
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:31,400
being a new mom.

474
00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:34,900
And I think it's really important to talk about that because

475
00:37:34,900 --> 00:37:41,500
it's so hard and it's beautiful and it's, you know, exhausting

476
00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:44,900
and it's magical all at the same time.

477
00:37:44,900 --> 00:37:49,000
And to talk about how much you love this new baby and you're

478
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,400
so grateful, but also like how freaking hard it is.

479
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,400
How hard it is.

480
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,200
You might not even feel like super bond.

481
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,900
You love that baby and you're grateful.

482
00:37:59,900 --> 00:38:01,000
But you're not connected yet.

483
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,200
You may not be connected right away, especially depending on

484
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,800
like what your birth look like.

485
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:09,000
Um, you're getting to know a new person.

486
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:09,700
Yeah.

487
00:38:09,700 --> 00:38:12,100
And this person is very demanding.

488
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:13,600
Right.

489
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,400
I'll sometimes I'll say like, isn't it amazing how like much

490
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,000
work this baby is?

491
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,100
You know, before you have a baby, you think like, what do you

492
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:23,400
do?

493
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:24,200
It's not that hard.

494
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:25,100
Yeah, it's not that hard.

495
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:25,800
It's easy to do.

496
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,300
Um, and change their diaper and, and I was like, I bet you're

497
00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:30,800
just like, where did the day go?

498
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,400
And they're like, oh my gosh, that's so true.

499
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,800
So, you know, I cannot stress enough that like we just as a

500
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,600
society need to do better.

501
00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:46,900
Or our new moms and our new, you know, their partners too.

502
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,900
And I'll tell you, take the nap.

503
00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:51,700
If you're a new mom and you're thinking we've made that

504
00:38:51,700 --> 00:38:56,100
mistake with my first daughter, I thought, you know, not a

505
00:38:56,100 --> 00:38:56,600
big deal.

506
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:57,800
She's taking a nap.

507
00:38:57,900 --> 00:39:00,000
I'm going to go do this, this, this, this, this, this, this,

508
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,700
because I'm super mom and.

509
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:03,700
Yeah, I made it.

510
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,000
I made it a few weeks like that and then just broke down and

511
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:07,500
yeah.

512
00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:08,000
Yeah.

513
00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:09,900
For my next daughter, she took a nap.

514
00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:10,500
Let's go.

515
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:11,500
Let's nap together.

516
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:12,900
Take the nap.

517
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:13,800
Yes.

518
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,100
A game changer.

519
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:15,800
Yeah.

520
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,300
And if you're in fire or flight and you're too wired and

521
00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:22,000
you're just like, I can't, I can't lay down.

522
00:39:22,300 --> 00:39:25,500
That's even more reason that like, okay, don't I tell moms

523
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:26,100
this all the time.

524
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:27,600
I don't care if you fall asleep.

525
00:39:28,300 --> 00:39:32,800
I want you to lay down because it tells your body that

526
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:33,500
you're safe.

527
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:34,600
Yeah.

528
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,900
And it gets those cortisol levels down and it's little

529
00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:42,600
tiny baby steps to start to regulate that nervous system.

530
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:48,300
And you know, I don't just put either put on some music or

531
00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:51,600
listen to a meditation app or just put a funny show on put

532
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,300
on Shitts Creek or something.

533
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:53,800
Yeah.

534
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,100
And lay down and put your baby next to you.

535
00:39:58,100 --> 00:40:00,600
And if you are afraid of falling asleep with your new

536
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,300
baby, then have another adult in the room that's going to

537
00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:08,500
like supervise, you know, there's definitely safety measures

538
00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:10,700
we want to take when we're laying in a bed with a baby,

539
00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:16,400
but it's okay to do it during the day so that someone can

540
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:22,500
be supervising and babies don't know like I hear in Phoenix.

541
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:24,400
I'm like, your baby is confused.

542
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:24,800
Thanks.

543
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,500
This is France different time zone because they're like,

544
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:32,400
yeah, wake up at midnight and I'm like, yeah, you know,

545
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:33,300
basically a cat.

546
00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:34,300
Yeah.

547
00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:36,300
You just gave birth to a cat.

548
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:36,900
Enjoy that.

549
00:40:36,900 --> 00:40:37,400
True.

550
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,200
They don't have a circadian rhythm.

551
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:40,900
They have no idea.

552
00:40:41,300 --> 00:40:42,900
It's going to get better.

553
00:40:43,100 --> 00:40:43,600
It is.

554
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:44,600
It's going to happen.

555
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,500
But in those first few weeks for sure, like you have to

556
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:51,100
treat the 24 hour period like that too.

557
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:53,500
Like it's not about staying awake and getting stuff done

558
00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:55,800
all day because you're not going to be sleeping all night.

559
00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:56,500
Nope.

560
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:58,000
You get sleep broken up.

561
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:01,700
But you also need to like you said, lay down.

562
00:41:01,700 --> 00:41:03,300
I don't know if you fall asleep.

563
00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:04,800
Like just lay down.

564
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:05,300
Lay down.

565
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:06,100
Yep.

566
00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:09,100
Then I'll tell you as a postpartum mom too, which I'm so glad

567
00:41:09,100 --> 00:41:13,000
this is in the conversation now of the world because it wasn't

568
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:13,800
when I went through it.

569
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,100
Didn't have it with my first one, but my second one.

570
00:41:16,500 --> 00:41:18,000
I mean, hold on.

571
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:25,900
That being able just to lay beside my daughter and I couldn't

572
00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:29,100
like you said, I couldn't always sleep, but I would just listen

573
00:41:29,100 --> 00:41:29,800
to her breathe.

574
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:30,500
Yeah.

575
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:33,800
And I cannot tell you if you haven't had a child, you're going

576
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,400
to think I'm nuts, but just listening to her little breath

577
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:43,600
for however long she slept something in my body just relaxed.

578
00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:46,600
And suddenly I started connecting with her more.

579
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,600
It was it really was magical.

580
00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:50,600
Yeah.

581
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,000
We are instinctual beings.

582
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,700
We are at the end of the day.

583
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,000
We are instinctual beings and we sometimes we get so busy

584
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,700
that that gets kind of glossed over.

585
00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:03,200
Yeah.

586
00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:08,400
And those hormones are strong in that postpartum period and

587
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,900
it's like that mom radar is going off of like, I need to protect

588
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:16,800
this baby because if we're cave people and something's going

589
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,600
to come in and eat our baby, right?

590
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:24,400
And those right thoughts and the worries and all of that can

591
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,100
like just keep going.

592
00:42:26,100 --> 00:42:33,800
But again, like if we can just very intentionally do things

593
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,500
to kind of tone that down.

594
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,500
And again, it could be like if someone's done like hypnoburthing

595
00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:42,900
or anything like that, there's great.

596
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,000
You can just go on YouTube and look up like hypnoburthing

597
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,600
meditation and they have some for postpartum.

598
00:42:50,100 --> 00:42:52,800
And even if you're someone that's never done anything like

599
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,400
that before, there are meditation apps that you can get because

600
00:42:57,700 --> 00:42:59,700
it is in our brain.

601
00:42:59,700 --> 00:43:03,800
Like it's back there somewhere and we can tap into whatever

602
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:09,100
it is that's going to help us get out of that like crazy

603
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:15,900
stressful high nervous system because birth is a lot.

604
00:43:16,100 --> 00:43:17,700
It's dramatic for both of you.

605
00:43:17,900 --> 00:43:20,600
Traumatic even if birth went well.

606
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,700
Like, you know, just the birth could be the best birth ever

607
00:43:24,700 --> 00:43:27,600
and you feel super supported and you had a great team.

608
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,900
But that placenta goes away and with it goes some really great hormones

609
00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:35,100
and then your body has to try to figure that out.

610
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,600
And so there's no way to like explain that to people that

611
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,600
if they haven't had a baby before.

612
00:43:41,900 --> 00:43:45,200
Yeah, I know they hear us saying it, but they don't get it.

613
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,100
Yeah, you don't get it until you've gone through it.

614
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,000
It's hard to wrap your head around it.

615
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:55,300
But in other cultures, you know, they got right in India and a lot

616
00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:59,600
of communities, the new mother goes to her mom's house or her

617
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,000
mother-in-law's house like they take her out of her home into

618
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,000
a place where she doesn't have to worry about cooking, cleaning

619
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,600
the other children and she has a doded on.

620
00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:11,600
I mean, she supported.

621
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:12,300
Yes.

622
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:13,100
She's supported.

623
00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:14,300
She's in bed.

624
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,600
And there are certain communities where mom and baby get a head

625
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,100
to toe massage every day.

626
00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:26,100
I worked with a mom from Nepal and I was like talking to her

627
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:29,600
about like just certain like rhythmic movements with the baby

628
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,500
about how the movement is really relaxing.

629
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:32,800
Right?

630
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,800
That's how you get on the swing and you're just like, yeah.

631
00:44:36,500 --> 00:44:39,300
And how you can do that with the baby and she goes, oh, yeah,

632
00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:43,400
my mom has taught me all that and her mom still lived in Nepal.

633
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,800
So her mom kept telling her like, are you doing this or, you

634
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,200
know, you have to do this massage to help the baby with

635
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:49,800
digestion.

636
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:50,600
You have to do this.

637
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,400
They have it's just part of their culture.

638
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,400
And I go, are you doing it?

639
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:56,300
And she goes, no.

640
00:44:56,700 --> 00:45:00,200
And I go, I had to take all these classes and do it all this

641
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,300
money to learn how to teach you to do it and your mom already

642
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:07,300
taught you and you just laughed and she's like, okay, I'll do

643
00:45:07,300 --> 00:45:09,000
it and it made sense to her.

644
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,300
But, um, oh, sorry.

645
00:45:11,300 --> 00:45:11,700
Let me.

646
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:13,300
That's right.

647
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:14,800
And I'm glad you mentioned it.

648
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:15,400
Oh, that's fine.

649
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,500
I'm glad you mentioned that because the, the, the massage

650
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:24,200
aspect of it, um, again, it's not something unless you've

651
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:29,900
gone through it, um, but a massage, you're a baby.

652
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,200
It's just, it's life changing.

653
00:45:33,700 --> 00:45:34,100
Yeah.

654
00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:35,200
It's just so life changing.

655
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:39,000
When you know, you know, you can take your baby in my particular

656
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,000
case, it was her grandma.

657
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:46,400
So she's safe and, you know, it was, it was done for me by my

658
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,200
mother-in-law and I thought, I don't need this.

659
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:48,700
I'm fine.

660
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,500
No, because you just, it, yeah, it's amazing.

661
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,500
That's, I'm so glad that you got that.

662
00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:58,500
I know everybody that's listening is probably from different

663
00:45:58,500 --> 00:46:01,700
parts of the United States or different parts of the world.

664
00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:04,800
So what their resources are very different here in Phoenix,

665
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,600
we have some like massage therapists that specifically

666
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:14,600
cater to new, to like prenatal and postpartum moms and do

667
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:19,200
postpartum massages and the therapeutic breast massages.

668
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,100
Um, I got certified in that from.

669
00:46:22,100 --> 00:46:23,600
What is that by the way?

670
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:24,100
Yeah.

671
00:46:24,100 --> 00:46:24,600
Yeah.

672
00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:30,100
It is also something that is, um, like done in other cultures.

673
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,600
I've learned it from a couple of different places.

674
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:38,600
So Maya Bowman is a nurse and then I be still see very well

675
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:44,600
known in the lactation community and she's Russian and she

676
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,900
teaches a therapeutic breast massage.

677
00:46:47,900 --> 00:46:51,600
I've also taken a class and gotten certified from a licensed

678
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:52,600
massage therapist.

679
00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:58,600
Um, but is it to stimulate milk or is it to relax the mom or it

680
00:46:58,600 --> 00:46:59,900
can help with engorgement.

681
00:47:00,100 --> 00:47:05,300
It can help with milk supply in both, it both low milk supply

682
00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:09,800
and oversupply. Um, there's a certain amount of lymphatic

683
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:15,100
drainage that is encouraged in the types of breast massages

684
00:47:15,100 --> 00:47:16,300
that I'm talking about.

685
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,300
Um, so, you know, it used to be when moms were engorged, we

686
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:23,800
would tell them get in the hot shower and then just like.

687
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:26,300
Yeah.

688
00:47:26,300 --> 00:47:28,300
Unduct or dig that.

689
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:29,800
Engorgement out.

690
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,500
And now we know that that was causing more inflammation.

691
00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:37,700
And so now there's more of like this therapeutic, um,

692
00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:43,000
lymphatic drainage of the breast massage that we that we do.

693
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,500
Again, like in Russia, in Japan, in certain parts of India,

694
00:47:48,500 --> 00:47:52,500
it's just a normal part of the postpartum period.

695
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,700
I was reading up on it a little bit and in certain communities

696
00:47:56,700 --> 00:47:59,500
and even like Africa, Nigeria.

697
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:05,000
Um, it is normal to go get a massage specifically a breast

698
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:05,800
massage.

699
00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:11,000
Not only in the postpartum period, but like at any point in

700
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,500
time, it's just to help with the congestion.

701
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,900
Um, for healthier breast tissue, you know, a lot of women

702
00:48:18,900 --> 00:48:21,500
have fibroids and done sprouts and yeah.

703
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:25,500
Um, so, you know, if you go get a massage here in the United

704
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:27,800
States, they're not going to touch that area.

705
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,900
That's kind of like, um, but there are some massage therapists

706
00:48:32,900 --> 00:48:36,000
that will do that, especially for women that have breast

707
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:41,400
cancer, um, maybe have had a mastectomy or, you know, had a

708
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:42,900
lumpectomy or something.

709
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:47,100
A lot of the oncologists will refer to specific massage

710
00:48:47,100 --> 00:48:49,600
therapists that they'll do therapeutic breast massage for

711
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:49,900
them.

712
00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:53,600
So there's definitely medical indications for it.

713
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,400
And a lot of lactation consultants are learning more about

714
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,700
this and offering, um, therapeutic breast massage in

715
00:49:00,700 --> 00:49:02,200
the postpartum period.

716
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:03,700
So yeah.

717
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:05,300
Yeah.

718
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:09,300
So at the end of every episode, I always turn it back to

719
00:49:09,300 --> 00:49:12,300
our guests for the final thoughts for our parents because

720
00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:13,600
you are the experts.

721
00:49:14,100 --> 00:49:18,700
So any final thoughts you'd like to leave our parent audience

722
00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:18,900
with?

723
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:21,100
Yeah.

724
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:22,400
Um, my gosh.

725
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:31,100
Let me think of what we, I would just say that as we're

726
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:36,500
learning more and you know, there's more of a community and

727
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:41,500
the positive part of social media is really learning about

728
00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:43,500
what resources are out there.

729
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:49,800
And you know, with lactation consultants specifically, I would

730
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,400
say do research prenatally during your pregnancy of who is

731
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,900
in your community, um, what kind of consults they do, check

732
00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:04,300
your insurance benefits with, with them and do a prenatal

733
00:50:04,300 --> 00:50:04,800
visit.

734
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,800
Like I said earlier, um, 2024 needs to be the year of the

735
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,500
prenatal visits because we can help you pick which pump is

736
00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:15,100
going to be the best for you.

737
00:50:15,100 --> 00:50:16,900
We can help you with flange sizing.

738
00:50:16,900 --> 00:50:19,900
We can help you with your registry list.

739
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,900
We can help you with planning for that postpartum period and

740
00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:28,100
to have those expectations of what that might look like so

741
00:50:28,100 --> 00:50:33,500
that you can just not feel like you're surviving in that

742
00:50:33,500 --> 00:50:34,700
postpartum period.

743
00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:37,900
Like you may not feel like you're thriving and that's okay.

744
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:39,300
But you could heal.

745
00:50:39,700 --> 00:50:45,500
We won't be in survival mode and yeah, I think I'm so glad

746
00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:47,100
that we talked about this.

747
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,500
Um, and you know, in talking about the airway because isn't

748
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:54,200
the nervous system just such a huge part of that like we're

749
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:55,500
not working correctly.

750
00:50:55,500 --> 00:50:56,200
Yes.

751
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,500
And as I'm going to be regulated, but there's so many other

752
00:50:59,500 --> 00:51:03,500
parts and pieces of it and I just am so happy that I got to

753
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:08,600
do this podcast with you and to talk about breastfeeding and

754
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,500
what breastfeeding support can look like beyond beyond the

755
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:12,100
latch.

756
00:51:12,100 --> 00:51:13,900
It's not just about the latch.

757
00:51:13,900 --> 00:51:14,900
No, it's not.

758
00:51:14,900 --> 00:51:16,700
It is.

759
00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:17,200
It is.

760
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:18,600
Thank you so much.

761
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,500
Oh yeah, it's my pleasure.

762
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:25,000
Thanks again to today's guest Amy Fields for sharing her

763
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,900
medical insight into each of you for listening to today's

764
00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:28,500
episode.

765
00:51:29,900 --> 00:51:32,200
If you're new to our podcast, please don't forget to

766
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:32,900
subscribe.

767
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,700
And if you enjoyed today's episode, leave us a review or

768
00:51:35,700 --> 00:51:38,300
comment telling us about what you enjoyed most.

769
00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:41,500
You can stay connected with the Children's Airway First

770
00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:46,300
Foundation by following us on Instagram, Facebook, X, LinkedIn

771
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:47,400
and YouTube.

772
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:51,300
Parents can also join us via our Facebook Parents Support

773
00:51:51,300 --> 00:51:55,500
Group, the Airway Huddle at facebook.com backslash groups

774
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:57,000
backslash airway huddle.

775
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,700
You can also find tons of great content for parents and

776
00:52:00,700 --> 00:52:03,500
medical professionals alike via the parents portal and

777
00:52:03,500 --> 00:52:05,800
clinicians corner areas on our website.

778
00:52:06,700 --> 00:52:09,400
If you'd like to be a guest or have an idea for an upcoming

779
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,700
episode, shoot us a note via the contact page on our website

780
00:52:12,700 --> 00:52:17,700
or send us an email directly at info at children'sairwayfirst.org

781
00:52:18,700 --> 00:52:21,700
And finally, thanks to all the parents and medical professionals

782
00:52:21,700 --> 00:52:24,300
out there that are working hard to make the lives of kids

783
00:52:24,300 --> 00:52:26,200
around the globe just a little bit better.

784
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:45,200
Take care, stay safe and happy breathing everyone.