Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Airway First, the podcast from the Children's
Airway First Foundation.
I'm your host, Rebecca St. James.
My guest today is Kathleen Reddy, wife and mom who is here to share her experience on
the airway journey that began with her son, Jubal.
Kathleen and her husband Ryan have been married for 11 years.
They have four children with number five on the way and they live in North Idaho.
As a family, they enjoy a number of outdoor pastimes in the area and when inside Kathleen
is usually pursuing domestic arts in hopes of further blessing her family and her friends.
I first heard Kathleen's story when attending a webinar that was being led by Dr. Ben Christensen.
Her journey started with her son, Jubal, and is now expanded to include her other children.
My hope today is that parents will find inspiration, hope, as well as some really sound advice
from her experience.
So now let's jump into my interview with Kathleen Reddy.
All right, great.
Thank you so much for joining us today, Kathleen.
I appreciate you being here.
Glad to be on.
Awesome.
So I'm just going to let our listeners know that today's a little bit different.
Excuse me.
Usually we have on medical professionals, luminaries to share information with parents.
So today we're mixing it up a little bit.
We have a parent to share information with other parents.
So again, just sincerely thank you for being here, sharing all the details, putting yourself
out there.
And I know that this will help some other parent that's listening.
So thank you.
Well, I'm glad to have you help.
So thanks for reaching out.
Of course.
So let's just go ahead and start.
If you wouldn't mind, just tell us a little bit about you and Jubal and how your airway
journey started.
Sure.
So my name is Kathleen and I have been a mother now for a little over seven years.
Jubal is our first.
And before becoming a mother, I worked with our local sleep doctor in his practice, taking
notes for him during appointments.
And so through that, I did learn a good bit about sleep apnea, airway difficulties, health
issues that fall downstream from that.
But I only saw it from the adult side of treatment.
We rarely had children with any kind of difficulties coming in.
So Jubal came along, I became a stay at home mother, which was the best job upgrade ever.
And he was just always fine, cheerful, chipper, happy little boy, happy, go lucky.
And then somewhere along the way, he just started being a little bit harder to wake
up in the mornings, a little bit harder to get going in the mornings.
Just kind of didn't really think anything of it.
It just happened very gradually.
And there was just also the fact that children go through growth spurs, children are changing,
things happen that make those things predictable.
One thing we often had with him every year, he would have some major, major bout with
Krupp.
Krupp was his nemesis for a very long time.
When he was 18 months, he was actually hospitalized for three days for such a bad habit.
And again, it was just one of those things that we never really thought anything of just
up, he's prone to it, some kids are.
And then in my book group with some other moms, one of that group had begun seeing Dr.
Christensen in our area for airway treatment for her children.
And so she began sharing some details about the improvements they were seeing on various
fronts, and all of these little pockets of sleep related education that I had gotten
years back started clicking in my brain.
And another mom was saying, oh, my husband saw that same sleep doctor that Kathleen
used to work for, and was told that because of his sleep apnea that had been undiagnosed
since childhood, like his parents knew about it, had heard of him doing horrible episodes
of not breathing.
He had never been treated for it until after they got married, she basically sent him to
the doctor right away.
And the doctor told him, you probably should have been taller.
You probably shouldn't have all of these health issues that you have.
It would probably have helped if you had gotten the scene a lot sooner.
And so all of a sudden, my brain is taking these two bits of information, the man that
my child may become if this is left untreated, and the fact that we have a doctor, an orthodontist
in the area that treats children as soon as the age of three.
So I thought to myself, we are getting in there right now because I had no idea that
you could even do anything for children because I had noticed that Jubal would stop breathing
at night.
I was like, this is sleep apnea, he's got it, but what are you going to do?
Put a kid on a CPAP, like whatever.
Exactly, right?
Yeah.
That's what we all thought.
Yeah.
And so we popped down to Lewison and Dr. Christensen said, yeah, that jaw, that mouth structure,
he, Jubal got my retrognathia setback, fun times mouth.
So we started getting him going.
And shortly before our initial consultation with Dr. Christensen, Jubal had had a checkup
with our family doctor who just made the offhand comment, man, his tonsils and adenoids are
just huge.
There is no room in that throat.
They're so inflamed and thought to myself, well, good thing we're getting this all checked
out in a couple of days later because I think we're going to have some improvement from
what I hear.
And sure enough, we get the first round of expansion begun six days into treatment.
I happened to go into the kids bedroom one night for something and I just stood there
dumbfounded because I realized for the first time in years, I had to listen for Jubal's
breathing.
How far into this was this?
Six days.
Six days of having an expander in that we would turn however many times a turn daily,
we were told to push the jaws apart.
And I thought to myself, oh my goodness.
Finally I walk in and he's all raspy.
He's all maybe making a cough.
You can tell when he's asleep because you sure.
And here I am.
Are you fooling me?
Are you actually breathing?
What are we doing here?
And sure enough, he was deep, peaceful, calm breaths.
And it was probably about a week after that I went in again.
And not only was it the same deep, calm, peaceful breaths that I had to actually pay attention
to here, he was flat on his back, which normally his body would he would never sleep on his
back because he would just choke out way too bad.
Right.
They have to angle.
Exactly.
So he's always been my curled up on the stomach kind of sleeper guy because he couldn't breathe
otherwise.
And I find him sprawled out with maybe a little hint of a to it.
I was just dumbfounded.
But then beyond that, in the mornings, that was when we realized how much of our jubile
we had lost because we started finding the jubile coming back.
So in the mornings, instead of the zombie that would come and sit on the couch and take
and 30 to 45 minute period to come fully awake, the zombie that sometimes what would you like
for breakfast would send into a fit because I can't even handle it right now.
Don't even talk to me like, wow, that child was gone.
We had no zombie.
And instead we had our chipper happy boy March and I.
Good morning, dad.
Good morning, mom.
What's for breakfast?
And just realizing where have you been?
I did not realize we had lost you and how old was he?
When you started this seven in July.
So he probably was just about six when we started.
I think it's been a little over a year that we've had this adventure.
Wow.
And we watched him go through Rem rebound, which was something I remembered from my
scribe days.
People would get on CPAP, their bodies would go back into REM because they could breathe
and not choke out all the time.
And so their bodies would go into REM overdrive to make up for lost time.
And they would report significant increase in dreams or strange dreams or, you know,
very vivid things.
And so it became very normal for a few weeks for Jubal.
Oh, let me tell you about this crazy dream I had last night.
Last time I had two crazy dreams.
So it was a definite change.
And he's just gotten more and more alert, awake and just happy.
And it's been a huge blessing from something simple.
Right.
Are you noticing a change in him when it comes to school or how he engages with other children?
Not so much child engagement.
That's always been something that in our family, we try to keep a firm grip on this.
Like you are kind of others, even when you don't feel like it or when you're tired and
something, we all have to work on and learn.
So there are things that he was more tempted to perhaps when he was much more sleep deprived
and having issues that we would not allow him to get away with, you could say.
So that kind of thing.
Sure.
Yeah, like we would, we might see those things, but we wouldn't tolerate them.
And so I don't know that I would say that we've seen a dramatic difference in that regard.
And we're about to kick off another school year here.
And so I anticipate that some of the struggles that we had last year with focusing and, you
know, some of his subjects he just loved.
So, you know, like every kid, they love their thing and other things are hard.
But I'm hopeful that we'll see some improvement in just the ease with which some of us are
loved these concepts are grasped and implemented.
And I just can't, that is amazing.
It's such a difference.
And you're, you're among the fortunate.
I mean, you knew what to do.
I've joked before we should change the title of this podcast to you don't know what you
don't know.
Right.
Yeah.
Because his parents, I mean, we had no idea.
But once you know about it, you just can't not know about it.
You can't not do something about it.
And just to see this kind of transformation is to me, that's proof of what it can do.
Right.
Yeah.
So as, as parents, I mean, what was that like for you and your husband, you know, I guess
both sides of it, right?
In the beginning, watching your child struggle and have these horrible nights and lethargic
mornings.
Yeah.
Versus now.
I mean, what, how is that for you guys?
It's just a huge relief just to realize that not only was there a big problem that was
probably bigger than we realized, but that we were given the opportunity to have it alleviated
relatively easily.
And you know, you can play what if all day, what if we didn't know what if, and that's
just not helpful.
Right.
And we can honestly say there's a good chance he would have had a lot of issues for a very
long time.
That would be very difficult to overcome in adulthood if we weren't given the privilege
of finding out about these things when we did.
That's a huge mercy that we were, of course.
Yeah.
And I think some of the what if is taken away because there's enough research and data to
tell you what would happen.
It was just, you know, which one of those would he have had to live with?
Right.
Exactly.
Pick your poison.
Exactly.
Right.
Yeah.
Now, have you seen this in any of your other children or?
We have our almost five year old with expansion because we looked at her and thought, oh, well,
her mouth shape is so much different than his, probably no big deal.
And then our first interview with Dr. Christensen with Jubal, some of the things he said, oh,
what about her?
What about Tilly?
What do you think?
And he took a quick look and, ah, no, not as much room in there as we'd want to see.
I'm like, well, sign her up.
Next.
Everybody.
That's right.
So we're about to have our three year old start soon because she's much more similarly
shaped to Jubal and three is as early as Dr. Christensen takes them.
So we're just kind of lining them up.
Right.
Oh my gosh.
And I mean, at this point, Jubal's probably too young to really understand.
Does he have any concept of a change?
Does he feel any different that hasn't been able to verbalize that?
When it first was happening, definitely, but it's been about a year for him now.
And so I think that for him, that, you know, when you're a child, a year is so long.
It's just gone.
You don't remember.
And so I anticipate that.
Yeah, it's just normal.
That's exactly.
I anticipate that maybe he could look back and be a little, oh, I remember when it was
a little hard to get up in the mornings.
But I kind of guess that that's how it would be for him.
Right.
Well, that makes sense.
That's awesome though.
Yeah.
As far as, you know, obviously Dr. Christians, and you were fortunate because you knew who
it was.
You had somewhere to go.
And there are so many parents we're finding now that there's just not anybody in their
area.
So I will make sure in a podcast next, we do put the link to this, but your airway health
solutions, for example, has a search that you can go find a doctor.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
That's good news.
Absolutely.
It's great.
So, you know, what kind of advice could you share with parents that are running into obstacles?
One of the things we hear a lot is, well, I went to my dentist or I went to my pediatrician
and they said, don't worry about it.
They'll grow out of it.
As a parent, what would you say to another parent?
Be tenacious.
Keep asking.
Keep finding.
Keep looking.
Guide for yourself how far you're willing to drive, how far you can go, and also learn
to trust and be okay with closed doors.
As a parent, you want the best for your child because you love your child.
But you can't always get the best for them.
Do your best to get the best, but can you get less, which is better than nothing?
So find out what you can get.
If everybody else that is, you know, going to be fantastic, it's too far away to make
the drive.
Maybe somebody closer will do at least something part way, which is better than nothing.
Maybe there's somebody in your area that would partner with somebody farther away so you
could see somebody far away for some initial things and get a treatment plan and maybe
pay somebody closer to do the work and do some intermediary check-ins.
I don't know.
Don't take no for an answer, but also learn that we can't always get the yes we wanted
and what kind of yes can we get.
Learn listening to Airway First with today's guests, Kathleen Reddy.
You can find out more about the Children's Airway First Foundation and our mission to
fix before six on our website at childrensairwayfirst.org.
The CAF website offers tons of great resources for parents and medical professionals, including
videos, blogs, a recommended reading list, comprehensive medical research, podcasts,
and so much more.
Parents are encouraged to join the Airway Huddle, our Facebook support group, which
was created for parents of children with Airway and sleep-related issues.
You can access the Airway Huddle support group at facebook.com, backslash, groups, backslash,
Airway Huddle.
Are you a medical professional or parent that is interested in being a guest on the show?
Or do you have an idea for an upcoming episode?
If so, then shoot us a note via our contacts page on our website.
Or send us an email directly at infoatchildrensairwayfirst.org.
As a reminder, this podcast and the opinions expressed here are not a medical diagnosis.
If you suspect your child might have an airway issue, contact your pediatric airway dentist
or pediatrician.
And now let's jump back into today's interview with our guest, Kathleen Reddy.
And then as far as, I'm not sure, I don't want to make this assumption, but it doesn't
sound like you had as much guilt and consternation as some parents do.
Because you already had a little bit of a background, so it was a little easier for
you to catch it and transition.
But I'm sure you've run into other parents that are, what do you say to them?
You do your best for your child with the data you had at the time you made the decision.
And if you didn't have XYZ, that's not your fault.
And it's so easy to, again, play what if or, you know, I should have known as well, but
you didn't.
And that can be really hard to accept.
I just didn't know.
And I wish I had, I wish I could have done, I wish that this, but it wasn't an option.
And so that's how it was.
How are we now?
Where are we now?
What can we do now to make tomorrow better?
Because we can't change yesterday.
But we can work today, we can work tomorrow, and we can move forward from where we are.
So wishing we were over there where we should have been, you know, that wasn't our story,
that wasn't our path.
So let's live our story and live our path and be the best we can on that journey.
That's fantastic.
Yeah, I could have said that better myself.
And it's hard as a parent.
And I will tell you, you know, working with the foundation and hosting the podcast, even
it's really hard not to do that to yourself.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Are there, are there any other, you know, changes that you guys have implemented to help support
Jules' journey as far as, you know, the exercises or myofunctional therapy or changes in eating
habits or sleep hygiene?
Sure.
The myofunctional therapy step comes later in Dr. Christensen's treatment plan.
He used to do tongue tie releases and things like that more immediately.
And then the therapist that follows his work afterwards told him, you know, I'd really
love to have more room in the mouth in order to help these kids work these things, learn
these new habits with their tongue, et cetera, properly.
So there are things that will happen later in the myofunctional arena.
But for right now, we're doing more upper expansion, once his lower six year molars
finish coming through, we'll do lower expansion, make a whole bunch of room in there, start
getting that jaw brought forward on the bottom, and then we'll do some tongue tie releases
and the next steps from there.
So there are definitely steps to come, but we're just in a little bit of an in-between
right now.
Which makes sense.
But yeah, it was fun though, going to a seven year well child check with our same family
doctor who mentioned his huge tonsils and adenoids.
And he looked in there and he said, those are looking way better.
Wow.
I said something about the, yeah, I'm really glad we've been doing the expansion.
And he said, any more sleep apnea?
I said, not a thing.
And he said, I think it's a really good thing you did that.
You just gave him room for all of that to just grow in properly and just made some more
space in there.
So.
And that was also nice having a family doctor who maybe isn't super familiar with all what
all we're doing, but aware enough like, hey, those were huge.
Now there's more room.
Hey, that's better.
And just having that support there.
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
And that's another thing we see because so many of them were not trained.
They don't know.
So that's not their fault either.
But we're so many of them once they hear about it go, Oh, I mean, it is it's life changing
for the medical professionals that find out.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm excited to see what all is the fallout.
We aren't the only family in our community that goes to see Dr. Christensen.
We aren't the only family in our community that uses the same doctor.
You know, who knows how many recommendations get sent down.
We don't know.
And that's okay.
It's not our job is to just do the best with what we have and exactly.
Exactly.
And share what you can.
Yeah.
And that's, and that's what we're doing here, which is amazing.
So I want to shift just slightly for a parent that's about to start this journey with the
expanders on a day to day basis, you know, how hard is this to manage just so they can
kind of set their expectations?
Sure.
That's going to depend on the child.
Some children find it painful to have the expansion done.
Some children are fine with it and then it gets more painful later.
That was how my kids were.
Jubal and Tilly both started about the same time and I was bracing myself for, Oh, this
hurts.
Oh, that kind of thing.
The first handful of weeks they laughed and said it tickled.
Okay.
Well, great.
Take that.
But then as things progressed and things were getting pushed farther apart, then there
was more discomfort with the turning.
But it's just one or two turns a day, whatever the recommendation is.
And so you can be tough kid.
I know it hurts.
But if you sometimes we would just, you know, tell them if you're brave and do a good job,
here's a chocolate chip when you're done, you know, like, Hey, there you go.
Give them a center for being brave and being cooperative, which is awesome.
I love that.
So I usually at the end of a podcast, I will turn it over to the guest because, you know,
you guys are why people are tuning in.
You're the ones that have lived the tail and have the expertise.
Is there anything that you would like to leave with our listeners with other parents at this
moment, just a last thought?
Fight the guilt.
Any of that lingering guilt over, I wish I could have, I wish I had.
What if none of that is in our control?
It's not in our hands.
We know what we know and we do the best we can with what we have.
And the guilt and the bitterness, the anxiety, the stress, all of that's really bad for your
health too.
So that's true.
So just let it go and learn to just open your hands, receive what you're given and do the
best with what it is and make tomorrow better than today and let yesterday be yesterday
and learn from the mistakes of yesterday and move on.
You have.
You've said thank you so much for sharing your story and Jubal's story.
I really appreciate it.
Kathleen.
Yeah.
Oh, of course.
Of course.
Thanks again to today's guests, Kathleen Reddy, for sharing her story and to each of you for
listening to today's episode.
If you're new to our podcast, please don't forget to subscribe.
And if you enjoyed today's episode, leave us a review or comment telling us about what
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If you'd like to be a guest or have an idea for an upcoming episode, shoot us a note via
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And finally, thanks to all the parents and medical professionals out there that are working
to help make the lives of kids around the globe just a little bit better.
Take care, stay safe and happy breathing everyone.