You have some artists that are releasing hits, AI hits, from the beyond.
I see here Biggie Smalls rest in peace, but he's got a new cover.
HTTTA. HTTTA. HTTTA. HTTTA. HTTTA.
It's how to talk to AI with your hosts, go to go and west the synth mind.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, dogs, cats,
robots and everybody in between, especially you, AI generated pop music superstars.
This is HTTTA, how to talk to AI.
I am your host, West the Synth Mind, Synth Mind West.
And as always, I am joined by the gleaming genius, the gregarious,
the genuinely gifted, gorgeous, gracious, galavanting host herself,
the glamorous Ms. Dota Go.
G, how are you this week?
I am fantastic. Thank you so much.
I'm doing great.
It's an interesting start to the week, to be honest.
I just saw this video, which is a little bit political
and with audience permission, it's about campaign, about Biden
re-elections or something like that.
I'm not into politics, but you are in the US.
So I'm very curious to hear your opinion.
This video, what I'm impressed about is the editing, the music,
the audio, and as I understand it's fully AI generated.
That's correct. So what G is referring to over there,
the Republican Party here in the United States released
one of their first campaign ads for the 2024 presidential election.
And it is 100% AI generated from the photos, the music editing.
We'll post a link to it just for everyone's essay,
because if you're like us and you stare at a lot of these pictures
all the time, you'll notice a couple of things that you're like,
oh, that's AI generated. That's a little funny.
But the way it's cut together, like a political attack ad,
it's pretty sensational, pretty wild.
And it kind of speaks to some of the darker sides of this,
where misinformation can easily jump forth from these generative AI tools.
But even though we will not take a political slant one way
or the other on this show, I think it is important for our listeners
and all out there to have an awareness that these are out there
and they're not openly eliciting the fact that this is AI generated.
No, not at all. In the title, if you didn't look into video description,
you wouldn't know. And I can see people quickly jumping and sharing
because the edit is good.
Like just from the completely neutral perspective,
I would be fooled for sure.
But I saw another one, Wall Street Journal,
just put out their video, which is the title is,
I challenge my AI clone to replace me for 24 hours.
Everyone can just go watch it.
But there was an interesting also part touching on this,
you know, how can you misuse these things?
She used audio from 11 Labs, her voice clone,
to actually talk with her bank.
And as you know, banks usually have biometric.
So they listen to your voice saying certain things
and they either put you through with the actual human
or basically allow you more options.
So out of many tests she did using AI avatar in her voice,
this one actually worked and the bank proceeded.
And then they also tested with her friend trying to impersonate her
and it did not work and the bank spotted that this is not a person,
but it gives your impression at what level the audio is so good.
It's so good, it's a little scary.
And these are both areas where I think there's a need
for some measure of regulation.
How that's going to shake out, I don't know.
You're a YouTube content creator.
If you use AI tools, would you want a AI generated label
somewhere on the video by law?
Even though most of your video probably isn't AI generated,
how would that make you feel?
This is fun because I've thought about many aspects,
for example, generating my own avatar of me or using my voice,
cloning my voice, but I have not yet thought about
do I need to disclose it and how do you disclose that?
What would you even be comfortable with?
I think if there's an advertisement,
if it's something like political, targeted to kids,
you know, put out by a government organization
or like a news media source, they're acting in some official capacity.
I think there should be some sort of label, disclaimer.
Partial content has been generated with the help of AI tools and programs.
And that hopefully is an indication for people to take this
with a little bit of a grain of salt.
100% agree with you.
I think transparency and just giving that people consume the content,
the freedom to judge for themselves.
And it's fine.
I think we are going to move forward that people will enjoy music.
They may produce by AI or videos produced by AI.
I think it's completely natural,
and especially with images, too, like on the previous podcast,
you said that people actually preferred AI generated images in this case study,
right, made in Germany, but they're all for making disclaimers for people.
I would include like, you know, in YouTube,
for example, you do paid promotion.
Now there is that you can market that this video was made with paid promotion.
And there is this little pop up coming in the video.
If you pause it or you remove it, it includes paid promotion.
So maybe there should be like, oh, is this video or even the tools?
YouTube should be able to kind of detect these things.
As we know from a few episodes ago, too,
very good at detecting all sorts of things on their surface.
Well, kudos to them.
Yeah, kudos to them.
I mean, shoot, that's a whole nother discussion, too.
There's still no AI generated legitimate content detectors.
I've seen so many different stories of kids complaining because they've done
their essays 100% themselves, but their teacher runs it through an AI
content detector and parts of it comes up as this is 30% AI generated.
A lot of those just use a random number
distributor in terms of like what they elicit, what they put out,
because they just need they want traffic to their site because that's money.
And why not just open a text field that they can put the Declaration of
Independence into it and it comes out as 70% AI generated.
Like, no, no, it isn't like we know that we can put things in before.
But I see enough still enough teachers at least taking it with a grain of salt.
But I don't think it's in open eyes interest to put out their content
detectors. And as these things get better and better, how would you go about doing it?
Maybe there's some traces in AI video.
I know, for example, in AI generated audio, as you and I are talking,
it has a natural kind of like waveform pattern.
There's ups and downs that even if kind of zoomed out, look a little more jagged.
But if you were to zoom in, it's a much more gradual like a sine wave.
I know in AI generated audio, when you get really down, it kind of looks like a step
wise function or uniform. It's on or off.
Yeah. And to our ears, we can't tell the difference because it's so subtle.
But to a machine, there's no ramp up.
So you can do these algorithms that saying, OK, there's no partial millisecond
approach when this person says their name.
So that is an indication it's fake audio.
I am so curious to check it because remember I shared with you, I think,
in our first conversations that to edit my videos, I use the script
and that was, I think, one of the first
software is that you can clone your voice.
I could be wrong, but they are, let's say, one of the more profound ones.
And OpenAI, by the way, invested in them.
That's another story. What's going to come out of that?
So I cloned my voice and I noticed, for example, in my videos when I'm editing,
if there is some, let's say, I just need few words like maybe to make it
a bit smoother to include and or so just to kind of make it transitions.
And if I didn't originally record it in
few of my videos, I use my cloned voice to incorporate this transitions.
And the thing is, in one video I even said that I used it.
And if people can notice where and I used the whole sentence and with my previous
old bad mic, think if I used this mic, that would be insane.
And people never detected.
No one ever pointed out to me that, hey, yeah, I can tell this is the part.
I can hear it, but not people from, I don't know, YouTube or my family.
I'm yet to clone my voice with 11 Labs.
I'm very excited about that. Have you done it?
Yeah, I know you have an opportunity that I think maybe we'll discuss in a future
episode where you might become a immortal digital avatar, fully scanned, fully recreated.
I'm so excited about that.
I can't disclose right now more, but yeah, if anybody comes across my YouTube
video and there is another version of me, I think that's exciting to just explore
this type of creative opportunities and never age.
That's a thing I will just freeze myself at this moment in time.
This is a nice segue into another topic.
So just in the same vein as creating an AI voice copy of yourself, the 11 Labs needs
three minutes of audio to create a like 99% accurate voice model.
So when you have all these music singers
and stars that have hundreds of hours of recorded footage,
of high quality audio in the form of their music, you now have this proliferation
of AI generated music hitting the scene.
So we're going to include a link in the show notes and the newsletter this week
to the first AI hits chart, kind of a billboard top 100 of AI generated music.
It's a very interesting discussion because from the outside, the music industry,
who's famously always been a big champion and rightfully so of the copyrighted
material that artists put out, I think of Napster growing up,
that being the hugest lawsuit most of my middle school and high school years was
spent downloading tons of different songs, creating mixed CDs.
For you younger listeners is actually a compact disc.
It's this plastic little thing we used to use as ancient creatures that would go
into this machine called a CD player.
Yes, we didn't have our phones to listen to everything.
We are just old souls, vintage souls.
Yeah.
But so now you have these AI generated songs coming out that in some respects,
I'm looking at the list right now, you have some artists that are releasing
hits, AI hits from the beyond.
I see here Biggie Smalls, Rest in Peace, but he's got a new cover.
So there's a couple of these.
We'll take a little listen to one right now and talk about it after.
My way, your stare was holding
ripped jeans, skin was showing, hot night wind was blowing.
Where you think you're going, baby?
Hey, I just met you and this is crazy.
But here's my number.
So call me, maybe it's Hanna La Crye.
Ashen baby, but here's my number.
So call me, maybe.
What?
Now I want to listen to all of them like this is crazy.
Some of them are wild.
What we had and we'll put the link to it, that was Kanye West singing the Carly Rae
Jepsen classic, Call Me Maybe.
So you have a cross genre kind of occurrence here that people are doing.
And I think it brings up a couple interesting points of discussion.
So some artists have actually come out like I think Grimes has that has said,
hey, anyone wants to use my voice for AI generated music?
You can. I just get 50 percent of the royalties.
And she's even created a little like on
ramp for people to submit things and high res voice prints.
So it sounds really good.
So to one respect, that's kind of awesome.
That could be an entire new revenue stream,
especially if you have some control over the release.
That's kind of flattering.
Same to like a lot of people that are these mega timeless stars.
I would love to hear new Prince or Michael Jackson songs come out.
You know, those were both artists kind of like so quintessential to my growing up.
That's what I heard my parents playing all the time.
You know what?
I'm kind of thinking running this thought in my head that we are unlocking the whole
other level of creativity and I don't know how to actually describe it.
But maybe you can help me with that before we have artists in this genre.
And now we can take the same artist,
like Kanye West, in singing country music.
Now we have this like ability to make this cross sections between artists, time, styles.
And I saw this also with images the other day.
I saw that the image on Twitter that PewDiePie and MrBeast together.
If anybody can relate who are these people, it's the biggest YouTubers.
And basically I looked at that picture.
I was like, this is so screams to me I generated, but I don't know if it is, which is fine.
And then I just thought that, you know, people like, for example, fans were looking
for ages to see these two people in one picture.
And that now we have this ability to actually combine concepts like, I don't know,
I saw this babies jumping with parachutes that you would never see,
that you would never see a photograph of that.
And now we can actually, if we can imagine these cross sections between different
concepts and styles, we can actually have this creative ability to merge them.
Creative synthesis, if you will.
I knew that you will have some good name for it.
That's new, that's synth words coming back.
It's like multifaceted name of mine.
But so I think the interesting thing about these AI generated songs as compared
to AI generated photographs or AI generated text, when we're prompting and we want to
include a specific author or specific photographer in our mid journey prompt,
it tends to be in the way of in the style of this photographer written like this
author in the style of this author.
And to me, that is very different than this AI generated charts where it's like,
oh, I'm the artist, but this is a Drake song.
This is a Kanye song.
It's misrepresenting it a little bit, even though it's blatant that this is an AI hits
track, what's to stop someone from sharing the SoundCloud link and going, OK,
this is the new Drake song when it's not Drake at all.
So the flip side I touched on this, what kind of impresses me, this ability to push
creativity, but the other aspect is the fact that again, the Grimes example, right?
Music industry has been always very protective of copyright and they will
collect royalties, that's for sure.
Like they will find a way.
And now it comes down to the same, that now you can use Drake's or Kanye's voice.
They will receive revenue, but then it comes down to the artist's work in the image
generation, that is who comes to give royalties to these artists.
And they know that this topic has been hammered, there is lawsuits ongoing.
But for us actually to have this ability, it's very much like a hot ongoing topic.
So I think we will definitely talk in future episodes, the whole OpenAI being
pushed to disclose what's their training data, what they used and how much there is
potentially illegal data or that we have to pay fees like to the Reddit.
But also, yeah, so are you being pushing this transparency?
What happens once that transparency is reached and we actually see what exact
artworks, what exact songs have been used?
So this kind of creates the whole, potentially maybe the whole other
industry, which could go on on its own, that, for example, you can license maybe
your voice to the AI model labs.
You're absolutely right.
And then they can use that to be a cartoon character voice or say an audiobook.
It's a really, really interesting discussion.
My fear is that there is a lot of
big cases historically that pertain to copyright law and fair use, what is free
and fair use of songs, you know, the music industry famously has led many of these.
And my concern is that it would set a precedent that would carry over into some
of these image and text training sets, because to me, it's fundamentally
different to like type something online and it's out there.
And for that little blog post that you
typed to be used as part of training data, then it is to say, put out a
copyrighted song out there that even if it's paid for part of that copyright,
isn't necessarily to scrape the audio.
So like with this AI generated audio,
even if the training set included a purchased song, they purchased the song
legally from the iTunes store, it probably wasn't with the intention
to be included in a AI generated training set.
So kind of like how maybe you could license images like on Adobe.
Hey, you can pay for the one version of it if you just want to use the image.
But if it's going to be in front of this many people or used in this way,
it's another price that might be a precedent or a world that we're stepping
into, you know, a cost per stream, the artist gets this.
But the cost per use in a training set, the artist gets that.
I will come here on a record with this kind of thought regarding this.
I think we need to fundamentally rethink
technology behind metadata of any kind of file.
Both images, both audio, if it's voice,
some sort of way to embed the original rights.
And again, don't want to completely shift to the whole NFT topic and stuff like that.
That's not about that.
Every kind of innovation and everything we see, it feels and it probably is like that.
It's like a coin with two sides.
It will enable creativity for people who don't sing, are not able to sing or bring
the voice of their relatives and have these conversations and maybe create together things.
You know, sky's the limit for creativity.
And this is why we are beautiful humans,
that we are creative and we will push boundaries all the time.
And another side of coin is also our kind of nature to part of pushing boundaries is
actually to come up with ways to trick people, to seek profit, to scams.
And I just saw a video where a girl was crying that a scammer called
and said that her little brother is in prison or something or dead.
And it was his voice.
You know, so if our voices leak on a black market or something like that, what happens then?
I just gave you an example of bank security.
Biometrics need to completely be rethought.
And I think what Sam Alton said that equally as there is so much good
potential from all this technology, equally there is also this huge thread.
And the part that we don't know how to deal with these things and we are moving so fast.
And some big companies are in interesting positions, too.
So obviously a lot of these songs are listed on YouTube.
Someone will put about there to get views because they have the most mature
revenue generation, revenue per view, revenue per stream platform out of anything out there.
They did a study right now.
Users are using JetGBT 37 times more frequently than they are Google's part.
So it's like, OK, if we say no,
we're not going to put out any AI generated stuff on YouTube to appease the music industry.
OK, you've sent a signal to consumers that you're not AI friendly.
So some of your AI tools might not then
proliferate as much as you hope they would.
But conversely, you have a huge music industry that could say, OK, well,
because you haven't taken down this Drake AI song, you have to take down all
the real Drake songs that have over a billion views, you know,
that are great sources of revenue for you.
So it's an enviable place for them.
It's so funny to see this kind of evolution where we go text, image, music,
maybe voice, audio.
And this is my kind of prediction that maybe 2024.
I don't want to throw it into 2023, but let's say 2024.
We have video, which is a merger of image and audio effects, voice.
And there's insane developments in video already.
So maybe prediction is 2023 end of the year.
Predictions next Thursday.
Next week's episode.
But just the fact that if we are completely moving to the video where all of these
things come together, that fundamentally changes entertainment industry.
Yeah, it does.
I think we're only a few years away from having a full AI movie, fully AI generated,
influencer accounts that people can portray themselves as, or maybe even an AI is running.
AI YouTuber.
Yeah. I mean, to some degrees, it's already there.
I just got my runway ML access.
We'll post the link to that as well in the show notes.
But this is a kind of all encompassing design tool.
Anything from retouching images, AI generated images.
But part of one of their alphas that they have right now is the text to video generative tool.
Have you tried it?
I've started messing with it yesterday.
Gen 2 or Gen 1?
Gen 1.
I have Gen 2.
I created a small snippet with Gen 1.
I was on the waiting list and got early access.
As with many of these early things, I went with the crazy expectations because we put
trailers out there like, oh my God.
And then, of course, again, we always go back to prompting how good you are to
actually tell what you want.
So I was playing a lot, experimenting, and it takes some actual skill to now get good
results. But yeah, runway ML is impressive.
So this is where I think a whole other generation of people that maybe aren't as
tech literate, as deep into things like math, science, coding, but are very
descriptive writers or can describe a scene very clearly in their head, may become
the next elite level of prompt engineers.
To be able to describe a scene in such detail with the composition and the
lighting in the style of and exactly what actors, the AI actors are doing and holding
and looking and expressing, there'll be so many different layers.
And that also probably applies to music.
How would you prompt a rap music song?
Just saying rap is very broad.
There's subcategories or subgenres of each.
Do you have to know about what a song is composed of?
The beats per minute, the valence, the cadence, the timbre, all these different
little components that go into what makes a song.
You have to be able to describe those in such a way.
Very interesting kind of to think about.
So it just sounds to me that if we look at the trajectory of career, let's say 30,
40 years back, you usually probably had one job, one career continuously.
Now these instances and unfortunately or
fortunately I fall in that because by training and by my education, I'm an
architect, right? When I had the startup and I worked in marketing and I'm a content creator.
So this is such a merger of different skills.
So if someone comes to me and asks about,
I don't know, like a creative ad proposal prompt, I will be able to do that.
If you ask me for image, for interior design, specific style or building facade,
I am able to do it.
But because of this diverse experiences and skills I acquired.
So it just sounds that, yes, being able to communicate is a huge advantage.
I saw people who study English degrees.
They're like, oh, my God, I can't believe that it actually could pay out.
But also a lot of people who had accumulated this huge experience in life.
And as I mentioned to you, there's people who are older, are very good at describing
what they want because they lived life and seen stuff.
There will always be the need for experts.
AI is not coming taking jobs.
What's happening is someone using AI is going to come and replace other people.
But there will still always need to be that yardstick to measure against.
Like what is good?
And then that person who's using AI that's already at the top of their game,
like an amazing visual artist or an amazing guitar player or singer,
they can create something now that's infinitely more creative than they could
even attain. So it's still not something that's going to stifle creativity.
If anything, it's going to supercharge it in a lot of different ways.
And we'll always have this need for people to gauge it.
Wes, do you think for future episodes, would you want to take on the challenge
of creating our own music or something with voice?
I think it would be interesting to just challenge with audio.
I think that would be fun.
You are someone that speaks multiple languages.
I just saw that 11 Labs released a tool where I could say something in English
and it could have me saying the exact same thing in 10 other different languages.
It would be fun to see it evaluated.
You know what just popped?
I want to hear you speak in my own native language and I will leave it out for
people maybe to guess, but I would love to test different accents
because of course I'm not a native English speaker.
I have an accent.
But actually it would be so interesting how I sound in proper American.
I don't know.
Is there proper American?
Proper American.
Yeah.
British English.
That would be all like this here.
How you can go?
This is go to go.
Coming in.
Looking all fine, everyone.
We had a fine little episode.
Nick and Anna Picken.
That would be, I guess, proper American.
Yeah.
So I think for a future and oh, by the way, we hinted on the avatar things.
I think for listeners we could say that I hopefully can share more in the future
episodes about cloning yourself and how it's done and all the details.
Immortality.
Exactly.
So with that being said, Wes and go to go say bye to you.
Happy prompting, everybody.
Thanks for listening to How to Talk to AI with your hosts, go to go and Wes the Synth Mind.
As always, you can check out the show notes and links at how to talk to dot AI.
That's all for this week's episode.
Happy prompting, everyone.