Wait, so people prefer and like AI-generated images over the real art, but same group of
people also say that it's going to be bad.
Yeah.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, dogs, cats, robots, and everybody
in between, especially you indistinguishable AI-generated mid-journey models, welcome to
HTTTA.
I am your host, Wes the SynthBind SynthBind Wes, and I am joined by the graceful, the
grandiose, the garden of genius herself, the gregarious and glowing, filled with glittering
secrets about everything AI, the glorious go-to-go.
G, how are you this week?
Hi, I'm so glorious that I need to tell you I've been catfished and thanks to you.
Yeah.
Well, let's get into that right away because that's quite a shift from the mercurial intros
that I tried to purvey here.
I had gota, I found this site.
What's the name of the site again?
It's kitefished.com.
Katfished.com.
We'll put the link in the show notes and the YouTube description.
So what it is, is it's a 17 question test.
All you have to do is say, is the person a real person or an AI-generated person?
And you're going to go through it and see how you do.
So go to, I'm curious to see how you scored out of the 17 pictures.
I scored 14.
That's pretty good.
I took it as well and got a 15 of 17.
Now we probably have an unfair disadvantage given that we're constantly playing with these
tools and using them.
So what were some of the things to you that stood out when evaluating these 17 different
images as if the person was real or fake?
I never looked so analytically into a woman's body.
I'm like, is this armpit correct?
That's a nice looking armpit on that one person.
This is going to be interesting.
In the art academy, I used to draw people.
So I actually can draw people hyper-realistically.
And this actually was my first gig in high school earning money and going to music festivals
because I would offer to draw pencil hyper-realistic portraits.
Oh, that's awesome.
Anatomical things of the face.
I should know good, but if this is completely failure on my side, then that says a lot how
good these models have become.
Yeah.
Thing that I noticed because it's not so much in the faces.
We can tell if the face is a little off in certain ways.
The size of the eyeballs sometimes mid-journey has an issue with.
It'll make one eyeball bigger than the other and not the whole eye socket, but just the
scope and scale of the eyeball itself.
We have this, it's called uncanny valley where it's basically like we naturally look at faces
all the time.
So our minds are used to seeing those things.
But then I find that when you're taking a test like this to try to detect them, we can
kind of overfit sometimes that I think like too many things are real or AI.
This is how I would from now on will judge.
If eyebrows are not symmetrical, that's a real human being.
You need to have imperfections.
Exactly.
But mid-journey gets this wrong too.
So anything to do with pairs of stuff, it can mess up.
So one thing to check if you're looking at pictures of women is their earrings.
If they're wearing earrings, sometimes if they're wearing different ones, which would
probably happen, it's AI generated.
For me was chin, not double chin.
Like it's very like man's chin kind of fish.
Yeah, the little chin bud.
Like there's the shadow.
Yeah, exactly.
And one more aspect for me was how the background light hits hair.
It just seems as you would in Photoshop select a person and paste it in a different background.
If you think like from the color theory, like each light bounces differently from different
surfaces.
So if you take a person with black hair, but the background was white, and now you place
the same person on the black background, it's going to feel something is wrong because how
the white light bounced on the dark hair.
But now with AI, right?
AI you can just say change background.
But those may be these micro details, which we as humans recognize from nature, how light
bounces from objects.
This is something at least for me, I always look at is there a light bouncing on the object,
what it should be.
And they figured this out in video games because you have stuff in the past few years, like
ray tracing, where they're actually able to, with mathematical equations, map out how light
is going to bounce off and reflect and refract on certain objects in a space.
But I don't know if that happens in mid journey or anything like that.
The only fact is from this point on, it's going to be just getting better and better.
And I think the survey that we'll also put a link to in the show notes, they surveyed,
I'm trying to find the exact number here, but a bunch of people, again, they showed
them these quads of four people that looked similar.
You know, it was done right in your backyard there.
Yeah, it was done in Germany.
So aside from the test for the images, they also did a survey after just on their perceptions
of AI, if they heard about things, what their feeling was.
So again, they were over a thousand test subjects were shown multiple images in quads.
So there was four images at once.
Everybody looked kind of similar and they had to identify the one real image in there,
the one real person.
The moment you said Germany, I'm kind of not surprised that a lot of people fell for it.
You think so?
It's crazy.
I just met on a weekend some of my friends and they never heard of it.
They are like, your YouTube videos were the first touch point.
We were like, what?
Like, what is this?
Like I can actually use this?
Yeah, if you go on a street, I can almost promise to you that 99% of people never heard
of it.
That's interesting.
So again, Germany and then you have to look in the population, the average age and all
these things and also the relationship with technology and personal data plus the history
playing a role in that.
So I'm just kind of wonder what's going to happen when actually EU wakes up and Germany
wakes up to all of this.
Well, let me give you some stats from this digital insight survey, because I think some
of them are kind of intriguing and maybe kind of aligned with what you'd expect.
And you can offer some probably a little better insight, obviously, because this survey is
done on your doorstep here.
So the main thing that kind of brought up these AI images, if they're distinguishable
or indistinguishable from one another, only about 8% of Germans could even accurately
identify when presented four images, which one of those was real.
One of the interesting ones was 94% of survey participants agreed.
So that kind of tracks with that 8% that it's really difficult to tell and about 57% of
people, so almost two thirds, actually preferred AI generated images, artwork, everything in
that space to ones that had been done by humans.
So it's interesting because the contrary point to that that came out is only about one third
think that it's going to be a good thing for the creative process, for creativity with
another 18% saying it's going to be just detrimental.
You know?
Wait, so people prefer and like AI generated images over the real art, but same group of
people also say that it's going to be bad.
But what we know that it's the truth, like the reality is in what we as human, what we
like and prefer and we just lean to that.
Or I think it's just we don't want to admit that, hey, you know, there's no one that created
this thing.
I can relate to another person.
I can't relate to a machine that did this in the same way with a bunch of math problems.
So even though I like the advertisement of the model or the shoe or the painting that
the AI preferred more, I don't think that's good for anybody who's going to actually be
a model or painter or something like that.
It's so funny how history repeats itself.
If you look when cameras were invented and what people said, that first thing like of
course photography, now you can capture people how they are in reality in the moment, but
there was so much fear that now anybody can take a picture of you and catch you secretly.
But then there was a whole other aspect that to have your portrait taken, you had to hire
an artist who would paint you realistically.
However, that realistically never really happened because as I shared with you from my experience
when people asked me to draw hyper realistically their girlfriends or family members, I would
always get like, oh, could you make her eyelashes longer or could you do this or that?
Can you make it a little bit better version that the person who receives it would like
it?
So the same with kings and queens and all these lords that when we hired an artist to
make a painting of them, they wanted something that they, how they would like to be portrayed
and suddenly cameras came who do reality.
And suddenly there was instances where people are like, oh, so this Lord is actually fat
and with a beard, but all what we saw that he's on a horse riding in armor, right?
And it's kind of just gives me the same sentiment that this split between, oh, we actually
prefer this as example, realistic image.
And now we actually can see the truth, but it's bad.
Yeah.
That's definitely a divergence because we already can't tell.
So you can't tell why does it matter?
But then once you know your opinion somehow is changed, to me, that's not an objective
way to assess something.
You can't objectively assess art anyway.
It's a subjective thing, but to just have your opinion switch because it was made by
a machine versus a person, I think is not a barometer that art or creativity should
necessarily be judged by.
In academia, I learned very, very early one big lesson.
The saying goes like that.
How good is your art is equal to how many eyeballs have seen it.
So if you think about it, it basically says that it's equals to the eyeballs because if
your art has been seen by 10 million people, there is going to be a fraction of people
who don't like it completely, but just a fraction of people who like it is bigger than your
art been seen by a thousand people.
So I think it's the same with AI art that if you show, and this is why those AI arts
win competitions, right?
Because at the end of the day, how many of those people who actually like it, and that's
the truth.
That's what determines how good is the art.
Yeah.
The results of the study are pretty interesting and they made it very kind of just about not
only the image detection, but also just like general AI awareness.
Only about half of people in the study, the thousand people they certified, had even heard
of these generative tools that they realized they could do stuff for business or art or
music and still only about half were interested in learning more about them.
So I have friends that have said to them, it feels kind of like when crypto and Bitcoin
came out.
It feels the same.
And I'm like, yeah, but the barrier to entry to that was so much higher because if you
wanted to trade crypto or buy crypto, especially in the early days, you had to get a computer.
You had to load special software on that.
You had to get a wallet to put your keys in offline or store all these fancy things that
no one had any frame of reference for, you know, to be trading it.
You weren't able to trade it normally in the US for the longest time.
So I thought that that comparison was a little different.
But then again, I wasn't all in on crypto either.
Like I am some of these AI tools.
The kind of sentiment I'm sensing, at least here in Europe, that people get a little bit
tired of how media shapes all of this.
And I also point fingers to the content creators that there is this whole hype and we go from
crypto to NFTs to metaverse.
Now the whole thing is AI.
And it feels like these hypes are half a year to a year cycle.
And then everyone kind of forgets or it crashes or people lose a lot of money.
You know, so I'm kind of not surprised that the moment AI comes into the attention cycle,
people go like, oh, okay, let me wait and see, is this a real thing?
The problem is, or maybe not a problem, that AI is a technology.
And if you actually look in the history, that's been worked on and thought about and applied
in the use cases every day.
That technology is solid and real and it's happening right now.
But of course, this gap between something developed to mass awareness, to alignment,
to policymaking is insane, huge.
And it's kind of this like exponential growth of AI.
So the moment, let's say, I don't want to say majority, but at least what you said,
like, okay, half, half of population of let's say Germany knows about chat GPT or that it
exists, we are going to be on GPT-5 or 6.
And you know, this kind of like a lag effect that you really don't understand what's happening,
what's going on.
Like even for us, what it feels being in the middle of it, it happened so fast.
For me, it's scary how this sentiment can influence attitude towards it because I just
heard again on a weekend friends ad that their companies blocked chat GPT just plain blank.
I do want to share before we get on, because I know we talk about how do you do detecting
AI or fake or real images.
I do want to tell this one story about how auto GPT actually really helped me out.
And this was kind of surprising.
Okay.
So as you know, we're week four in this podcast, GNI are our noobs, self-proclaimed and champions
of our new noobdom in the world of podcasting.
There's a seedy underbelly that I have now found, but was saved from by auto GPT.
So I've been doing some podcasts myself, met some great people during the course of doing
their podcasts about, you know, I did one, it's called the Coder Kids podcast.
We had a great discussion about how parents, I'm a parent myself, you know, should use
these tools and approach them with their kids, how these might change education.
That's done a couple other podcasts as well, but I did one last Friday was my first like
five minute interview, right?
That was for a live, supposedly streaming podcast radio station.
I will not name it for purposes of this story, but this is also just a sample of some of
the things I've found.
So there's a lot of podcasts out there that are set up as commodities in and of themselves
where it's like, Hey, yeah, you can be a guest.
Anybody can come be a guest on my podcast.
You just got to pay me, you know, certain amount of money to come be the guest because
I've got the audience and they have a whole cycle set up like this where they're just
getting people just, you know, all these different funnels with advertisements playing off people's
emotions like vanity and be like, we absolutely want you on this thing.
Come on down.
I didn't think this was the case here because the ones that I had run into before that I
was like, Oh, you know, let me cold call them.
See, I think I'd be a good fit.
The ones I'd run into before would lead with that would say, Hey, yep, you can come on.
You just pay this fee.
I'm like, all right, that's just, that's not for me.
It's a little scammy or whatever.
So this week I did the five minute interview.
It was fine.
I thought, and you know, they posted on their site, their site has from the outside, 113
five star reviews, five stars on Apple podcast.
If you Google it, it's in the top 3% of podcasts.
So it's like, Oh, this is a great opportunity.
So I get a call today.
I did the interview last Friday, forgot about it.
Right.
All right.
It was fine.
I went and listened to it.
It's like Kate listening to myself, you know, sure.
You're the same way.
But he's like, I can't do it.
I sound so stupid.
Even though everyone's like, you sound so great on these podcasts.
Yeah.
So I'm like, can't listen to it.
Totally forgotten about it.
It exists in the greater internet, but whatever.
So he's called today and they're like, Hey, is this Wes?
This is the, one of the partners and co-executive producers of the entire podcast network that
you're on and this show, you know, was that your first podcast that you've ever been on?
I'm like, actually no, I podcast myself.
But they're like, well, for a five minute interview, you know, we have all these polling
and demographics and you tested a 9.3, you were a 9.3.
We don't get that for five minute interviews.
And I'm just all like, Oh, well, of course you don't cause I, I am the master of AI.
No, you've got radio voice DJ talking about AI.
So this person now has got my, he got, got her both her hooks in.
Right.
And she starts going through her script.
Right.
So, Hey, you know, here's what I'd like to do.
We don't have anybody on our channel that is an AI expert.
Right.
We want to book you again.
We want to give you next 10 weeks of half hour segments, you know, in a certain time,
you're going to get interviewed by one of our celebrity hosts.
They sent me this site and one of their celebrity hosts has got 14 Emmy awards and is like a
newscaster in New York.
And I'm like, that's pretty legit, I guess.
Right.
So they're like, you're this person's going to interview you for the next 10 weeks.
You have creative control over the show.
And I'm like, I don't think I was that good on the podcast.
Like, you know, and going through.
And then they're like, we're going to do video interviews too.
There's going to be sponsorship deals associated with this.
And I'm like, is any of this real life?
Like what is happening right now?
I've done three, now four podcast episodes with you and been a guest on three others,
you know, I thought we're aiming to be there.
I'm in the tap 1% of podcasters yet, you know, about anything.
Well, you don't know.
Okay.
I'm looking what is the catch here because it sounds too good to be true.
Exactly.
So for me it would be red alerts because I've been invited to so many podcasts.
I don't go, but because it's red alert all around and I'm very cautious, but I'm listening.
At least in those instances, they're inviting you.
I reached out, did a little survey because it was just like, okay, you know, yeah, come
on five minute segment.
That's great.
And then did it, forgot about it.
But anyway, so I'm apparently going to get 12 different video calls that they're going
to post and their show airs on channel 117 on Comcast in your area.
And I'm like, beyond TV, like what, what?
And they're like, we guarantee you'll have at least 25 leads.
And then, oh yeah, by the way, we're going to get you a billboard in Times Square, New
York.
And I'm like, what is going on right now?
Like, as is this real?
I'm like, am I now the face?
Is this a cam?
Yes.
Let me tell you one night.
So then they go, it's only going to cost $5,000 to set all this up.
This is normally a package that would be 25 grand.
We're so interested in you.
And I'm like, it's not, this is not how I imagine this would work.
But for 20 minutes, I am just spoon feeding me.
I'm like, yes, I'm now the champion of AI and prompt engineering news for the world
to see, you know, like just playing on all those emotions of vanity, pride, and you know,
it just all pumped up.
It says Times Square billboard.
And you go on their site, they got pictures of everybody there with their face back on
a billboard at Times Square.
And I'm just like, everything about this looks legit.
Everything is such a scheme.
Yeah.
So anyway, so they say it's only going to cost this $5,000 best bet.
So at this point, I'm a little put off by that, but I had seen that in some of these
other podcasts.
However, my sense of their legitimacy at this point was like, and maybe that's not a bad
idea.
Like I want to get Times Square billboard.
It's $150 for 30 seconds on Times Square billboards, like 12 grand a day or something like that.
You know, like if I'm going to pay $5,000, I'm going to be in Times Square.
I'm going to go point myself and be like, yes, right.
That's me.
I'm famous, you know, or whatever.
That's just one of those like typical American like measures of success.
Something in Times Square.
Times Square is the center of the most Americana place like in New York.
So when they say it's only going to cost $5,000, throws up a little red flag.
But being the hustler and businessman that I am, I'm like, so, hey, why don't we, instead
of exchanging any pecuniary stuff, you know, making any kind of deal like this, why don't
we talk about what I can offer you guys?
If you have this social media and podcast and everything kind of network, surely there's
a ton of AI tools that we could deploy or develop for y'all that would be beneficial.
And I mean, what business owner at that point isn't at least a little interested on saying,
oh, I can have someone do all the social media content for three different shows across multiple
different platforms, like all at once with some, I don't need to pay these four other
people that I have doing it.
You know, I can go down.
Business doesn't want to have less overhead.
So I'm doing my pitch saying, hey, well, how about this?
Let's figure out a contract, do a little quid pro quo.
I'll help you get some of these tools set up and established.
Then you can leverage them.
You put me in a time square billboard, you know?
So it eventually, they kind of brushed that off a little too quickly in my opinion and
was ready.
We're like, all right, so I'm just going to, we're going to get you booked.
I'm going to transfer you over to this person.
They're going to take your credit card information.
I'm like, that's not how any of this stuff works.
That's not how any of this stuff normally works.
So I said, yeah, this is very flattering.
I got to talk to you.
I'm like, I don't want to talk about this just because I'm like, this is not spelling
right.
So rather than look at this myself, I'm like, let me try to form an unbiased opinion.
So I get on God mode, auto GPT, and I act as a podcast producer saying, hey, you're
a podcast producer.
You've just been offered this deal by this company with this podcast, right?
Can you scour the internet?
Tell me if it's legit.
Hey, scour the internet, look at different reviews and comments on those reviews.
If you see things like best thing ever, life changing words like that, label those as positive.
You see things like ripoff scam label those as negative.
So it goes and does that because on the surface everything kind of smells right.
And they've done a careful job at shaping that whole world.
I get the auto GPT results and naturally treated to literally the exact same story that happened
to me.
They told me three days after the interview, Ted, I had a 9.3 rating and I'm like, oh,
script, totally.
But thankfully I had enough sense that I was able to at least let go, I only take a step
back and reconsider and then use those AI tools.
It also then scoured their Apple podcast reviews.
A bunch of them were fake because they all had date stamps at the same time.
So it's like, okay, so you paid a click farm to give you a bunch of five star podcasts.
Plus what podcast is going to have 113 five star reviews and then seven one star reviews
only that are just like beware scam, you know, all this kind of stuff.
That was an example for me on how I had auto GPT kind of bring me down to earth a little
bit to kind of ground me after that.
But I was almost like, I should forward these people to like one of those like ethical hacking,
like you know, scammer time wasting channels that you see on YouTube.
Because I'm like, this is so predatory, you know, was I can't promise you a billboard
in New York, maybe in Berlin, but I think if we focus on actually this podcast and telling
the stories, all of these good things will happen.
But I can tell you, I have flashbacks first of all from us because I was almost caught
in very similar thing just way back when I was 23 and a female founder of a startup in
Denmark and I got contacted by US agency that Oh my God, we will tell your story.
We will bring you on the shows.
We will fly to Copenhagen to interview your team.
And this is so amazing.
So basically, and then the moment a guy was saying, Oh, and your hands are so nice to
hold product.
I was like, what?
That's a little weird.
Right?
It's weird.
And then they're like, and that Tai Lopez is in our network and he's holding this event.
I was like, okay, that's it done.
And for me it's like, but we went through kind of three calls really.
And I was like, thank God.
Now looking back, I was like, Oh my God, thank God, not so stupid 23 year old and didn't
get clicked on that.
But so many people get my email box now from YouTube first way was like so many scams.
I don't click any links.
I don't know, but I can imagine how many people do.
And I can think of many users also of these auto GPT tools where you automate emails and
send emails with certain links.
There's going to be that.
Right.
How about that catfish story?
No, this is so crazy.
I was in so deep.
I was just like in shock, just like I made it for everybody.
And thankfully my wife is just such a grounding force for all this stuff.
Yeah.
You know, brings me back down to her.
She's like, I'm seeing a couple of scammy reviews here.
I'm like, Oh, but there's all these other things.
So I went, did the auto GPT thing and thankfully gave me some more insight.
That's very interesting story that auto this God mode thing, which was also like I out
of all of them, I liked that one the most, but actually can use to also scout internet
very fast to identify certain scammy things, which is like fantastic.
And I just, I wanted something devoid of my own feelings about that at that point, you
know?
So even, even if I saw a negative reviews, I didn't want to be like, Oh, but you know,
rationalizing myself out of it, but maybe not.
I could have a different experience.
You know, I'm special.
I can tell you like this is, you know, well, just don't take it as bragging.
Okay.
No, but a developing like an eye for things and number one thing, if it sounds too good
to be true, it is.
And I literally in my business email, I have self promo scams, fake products, like all
these things go down and it's a lot.
And what I get pissed that I still have to go through all the emails coming to you with
all the promotion and like, all we have is token NFT, like just everything.
And as I said, I never click on links.
If you send me and you're like, Oh, this is our plugin.
Click here.
I'm not going to nothing or like video editors.
So this is like, again, video editor sending Dropbox files, Dropbox things.
And I know this is like number one thing you click on a Dropbox immediately downloads a
thing and then that's it.
One number thing on this fakeness and auto GPT, what is kind of fascinating to me with
like agents, that it creates multiple different agents.
And what if these multiple agents can continue living?
I'm talking like continuous mode.
For example, can auto GPT one of the agents have Instagram account and Instagram personality
plus create fake images like the ones on catfish.
But then let's take one step forward.
I also back in the days, like a year ago made a video about will architects or AI create
content in metaverse.
And I had this idea that actually you will have this like companions which are going
to be AI driven.
So now imagine this like AI agents having a real 3D body face that you can actually
talk with them.
What if you're like just talking and there is like screens and this faces who actually
interact with you and you see them working.
So it's more like we as people become like this managers with maybe five, 10 assistants
in the future.
And we are overviewing and kind of helping them navigate and providing feedback just
basically becomes like parents to these little agents.
Yeah, it's baby AGI.
We've got to be parents.
Right.
So yeah, the future, no one knows what type of future we are looking into.
So going forward, Wes, do you think now that you will fall for scams like the one you fell
for or the images?
And will we see on this podcast on upcoming episodes or you're transitioning to some big,
big podcasting studio?
Now I'm right here with you faithful listeners.
Yay!
And gee, there's no way I could ever leave you behind.
You're not leaving me.
I am definitely, I'm constantly amazed every day.
If something hits the right emotional heartstrings, then yeah, I may, you know, they probably
play me like a fiddle again, but ultimately I'm still here with you all.
So with that, I am Wes the Synthbind for Go2Go.
We're going to close out this week with a happy prompting everybody.
Happy prompting everybody.
Thanks for listening to How to Talk to AI with your hosts Go2Go and Wes the Synthmind.
As always, you can check out the show notes and links at howtotalkto.ai.
That's all for this week's episode.
Happy prompting everyone.